Just As Well, The Women's Health Podcast - Millie Mackintosh on Shame, Sobriety & Why She Had to Stop Drinking

Episode Date: January 27, 2026

Millie Mackintosh opens up about the panic attack that ended her drinking, the “grey area” of alcohol use, and how sobriety changed her motherhood, mental health, and sense of self. She also shares her ADHD diagnosis, the role of shame, and the wellness habits that keep her grounded. . Hosts:  https://www.instagram.com/glouiseatkinson/  https://www.instagram.com/clairesanderson/  Wellness video producer: https://www.instagram.com/chelia.batkin/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hi, I'm Gemma Atkinson and I'm Claire Sanderson. We have just interviewed Millie McIntosh for another episode of Just as well. I have to say, I was really pleasantly surprised because I've seen Millie on the scene back in the day. She was always a ladmaic favorite, obviously made in Chelsea. So I kind of had this, I don't know, I had this assumption of how she'd be and she was the opposite in terms of how she's took ownership over the problem and struggle she had with. alcohol, how she's made changes to be a better parent, how she's implementing healthy habits into a life, just her genuine approach to stuff.

So I've also known Millie for years, more professional, in a professional capacity than you, because she's been on the cover of women's health four times that we've met at cover shoots. And I would never have known at the time that she was going through the struggles that she describes today. So she described a very chaotic, uncomfortable relationship with alcohol, one that left her in a state of shame and self-loathing and perpetual hangover. She said she would drink to blackout. And I'm really surprised to hear her speak in such detail. I was. Because, as I say, the woman I met over the years looked like she had it all together. It just goes to show.

you never know you never know what someone's really going through and she explained her book is out actually now bad drunk and she said she had a moment she had a severe panic attack on a hangover and she was like you know what never again and she also spoke about using a sober coach as opposed to going to aA there's such thing as a sober coach and she's three and a half years sober now but she did say it wasn't easy it wasn't something that just happened she has to really work at it she still does now and towards the end of the chat, she gave advice to people who maybe at the start of this year are wanting to either quit alcohol or, you know, make some healthier habits. Yeah, and quit sugar. Some of the tips that she gave about quitting sugar, you and I are going to give, maybe give it to go. But yeah, so there's a lot of useful information in there as well. But it's actually a really emotional listening.

But a lot of what she said will resonate with many of us who maybe our relationship with alcohol could be scrutinize a little bit. here's our chat with Millie McIntosh for Just As Well Welcome to Just as Well Millie Thank you Thank you for joining us One of the reasons, one of the many reasons We wanted you on this pot is because you've been really incredibly open

About your journey And it's one that I think a lot of women Our age can relate to I know I definitely can I hardly drink at all now But back in my 20s I could party like Claire like the best of them.

Looking back at your 20s, what made you think, do you know what? Enough's enough. This has got, something has got to change. Was it one, obviously, the panic attack was, was the moments leading up to that? Or was that the moment? I think there was a lot of moments that just

compounded. So it was just like every time I woke up with that feeling of regret and shame, I would say to myself, never again and then it would happen again and again and again and I just got so bored of that feeling and kind of letting myself down I'd say it was kind of going on all the way through my 20s but my teens as well and then after I had kids I'd say that's what really pushed me to say okay enough is enough because adding that layer of mum guilt into the into the equation and

feeling like I wasn't being the best mother and that it was affecting every area of my life and particularly my mental health. I just couldn't lie to myself anymore and yeah, I talked about it in my book. I had one particularly bad panic attack when I was hung over and that was my kind of final moment where I said, okay, I'm never drinking again and it's been three and a half years. Would you describe yourself as an alcoholic or someone who has an unhealthy relationship with alcohol or are they the same thing? I think it depends what your definition is. I wasn't a drinker who was dependent on drinking alcohol every day of the week.

But whenever I drank, I wanted to drink to blackout and I wanted to, yeah, I just wanted to drink and drink and drink. And I recognize that that urge is very unhealthy for me. So it's better for me to completely abstain than to have the option of just having one. I need to just completely abstain because I recognize that I have that addictive tendency, particularly with alcohol. But I would say I had like an alcohol use disorder. There's lots of different phrases for it. I think there's quite unspoken about grey area of drinkers who maybe don't feel they fall into the category of an alcoholic,

but they regularly drink more than they kind of wanted to. They might kind of try to make rules around the way that they drink and say, okay, I'm going to have a glass of water between each drink. I'm going to, you know, I tried all these different ways. I'm only drinking tequila or I'm going to stop drinking after nine, all these different rules and they never work. Because once you've had one, you just, you know, that's it. You just want to have 100.

So I think it's not really talked about the grey area. of drinkers. I think it's kind of like, as well, in your 20s, in my 20s, part of British culture was to binge drink, so to speak. I mean, now obviously there's loads of new research about how detrimental it is, but I was very similar in that. We'd book a taxi for a night out at 10, but the girls would come to mine at 8 and they'd bring a bottle of vodka around, they'd bring mixers, and you'd get ready drinking alcohol, so you'd turn up to wherever you were going drunk. and that was, we didn't look on it as it was a shame or it was embarrassing. That was just what you did.

It's only now, as a mother myself, in my 40s, I'm like, God, the thought of that now. I mean, if anything ends after 10 o'clock, I'm not going, so I want to be in bed. But it was just part of growing up. Yeah, I remember when I was growing up in the South Wales valleys, genuinely from the age of 14, we were drinking a hooch. I don't know if anyone would remember. Yeah, we had Mad Dog 20-20. Yeah.

the sort of alcoholic lemonade. And yeah, it was just normal. But you, during Made in Chelsea, you were filming party scenes, drinking sometimes in the morning because of filming schedules. Do you think that environment shaped your relationship with alcohol or did it predate that? It definitely predated that. And I would say I often did drink on set, but I'll be honestly, if we were filming in the morning, like we were drinking, you know, like sparkling apple juice.

It wasn't like the producers were like, you need to drink alcohol at 10 a.m. in the morning. They actually were quite like anti that because they didn't want us. They experienced us drunk on camera a couple of times and we were quite incomprehensible. Yeah. They're like, time is morning. No one's going to be able to understand what they're saying. So they, it's not often that they were kind of flying us with drinks.

If we were filming past 12 o'clock, there was normally alcohol available. and those filming days can be quite long and boring so I would often be drinking or be feeling nervous that I was going to have a confrontation with someone that I didn't want to see so I would drink to kind of help with that anxiousness but then also being hung over when you've got a film and I just remember having so much anxiety

often I'd have gone out the night before and it wouldn't have been filmed but then I'd be showing up to film having hardly been to bed just you know with the shakes and You mentioned shame a lot in your book and throughout your journey. I think the shame around having a drinking problem is huge.

And it was something that I didn't want anyone to find out about me. My 20s, if you told me, you're going to have a book called Bad Drunk, if I laughed in your face. But I feel that by doing the book, I've kind of taken ownership of it and said, yes, I was a bad drunk. And I've found it really freeing and actually being able to let go. of a lot of the feelings of shame has been really important for me. I think holding on to shame is one of the reasons,

one of the things that kept me drinking. Breakage and shedding can make our hair look and feel thin, but thankfully there are products that can help. Pantan's new Grow Abundantyatantan anti-haelost scalp serum is a daily leaving that delivers nutrients and active ingredients directly to the scalp. And right now is 50% offered boots, so head to your nearest store and give it a small. try today. You chose to work with a sober coach as opposed to go down the AA route, although we know

AA can be miraculous and transformative for a lot of people. Was it the sober coach that helped you deal with those feelings of shame? Because I imagine you have to let them go to heal because one would feel the other otherwise. Yeah, you can definitely get into like a vicious cycle with that shame. So letting go is a big part of it. I chose a sober coach. That's just a what felt right for me. I also wanted to listen to lots of podcasts, read lots of books, just kind of completely surround myself with lots of sober information just to help kind of keep me in that lane. And sober coach weekly for about six months really help me. I have been to a group as well, but yeah, I still check in with my sober coach and still do therapy

and find that is kind of a good path for me. But I made sober friends as well and that really helps just having dinners with them. We just have like sober girls' dinners and it's nice because they get it and we have like a little WhatsApp group. And have you ever like with this sober coach uncovered a reason why you had the habits of drinking?

Is it anything rooted in your family history or childhood or was it just something you did? Definitely I think rooted in childhood. traumas in the feelings of discomfort that I had as a teen. I was bullied. I felt really worthless. I felt very uncomfortable in my own skin. I also had ADHD, which I didn't know.

But if you have ADHD, you're much more likely to have an unhealthy relationship with alcohol because of the way, literally just because of the way that your brain is wired. I went to boarding school when I was 10. and that's definitely given me some issues, you know, kind of abandonment issues. And yeah, I had to really start looking at stuff like that, things that I'd never really considered being in it, like being one of the reasons that I drank until I started seeing that sober coach and I was really, really resistant.

I was like, I don't want to talk about my childhood. But I think often it does come down to like our formative years before we're 10. Because it's funny with the ADHD, you mentioned, because we've had Davinia Taylor on here, aren't she? She's openly admitted. She was an alcoholic. Yeah, she's fabulous. And she says she was a full-blown alcoholic, didn't she, in our issue?

She's brilliant, and she has the ADHD diagnosis. We also had Pickey Patterson, who was a cover style last year on women's health, and her dad was an alcoholic. But she spoke again about diagnoses like down the line, which suddenly go, ah, okay, maybe that's why it happened to me. and everything kind of falls into place then. Because she says she has an unhealthy relationship with alcohol. Yeah.

She speaks a lot about that. Yeah. When were you diagnosed with ADHD? About a year ago. And it all did it just helping you make sense of yourself? Exactly make sense to myself because I think some people would say, but why find out as an adult? Like what difference is it going to make?

But it's helped me to forgive myself for things I've done in the past and just have, yeah, I can be kind of to myself. I'd love to explore the process of going sober. Did you manage to do it overnight? Or was it stumbling blocks and, you know, you start again? Or, yeah, how did that play out? I did just stop and I actually stopped when I was on holiday with people that were still drinking.

So it was really difficult because they were all drinking around me. and but I just knew I was like I just I'd said to myself so many times enough is enough like I'm never drinking again and for something in me had had something had clicked and I just was like I'm not I'm not going to drink and then it was about three or four more days until I got home and then I started seeing the sober coat straight away it was it is it is a lot easier now it was quite hard in those first few months just going to events or parties where I would normally have drunk through the social anxiety and having to just deal with it but I would often just not go for very long or leave early or you know it's probably certain things that I just didn't go to and did your when you started telling people did they take you seriously did they instantly support you or was like no you'll give it a few weeks and you'll think people weren't really sure how to take it I also didn't really feel comfortable telling people for a while so I just make up some other reason I wasn't drinking so I was doing a detox or I'd I'd

just make something up, be like I'm on antibiotics or whatever. I think it's whatever makes you feel more comfortable in the moment. I didn't feel I could explain myself until I'd made a bit more peace with it. Until you got into the flow of being able to say, do you know what? I'm not going to. It's like when you've, because I never, in my head, I was thinking it's the word sober. For me, you think, oh, they must have been an alcoholic. But like you said, there's different areas around it.

And you say in how some people have a drink before they go out, some people have waters between, I've done those things. And the only reason I stopped was because it was the hangover. I just felt awful. I think like you said like the hangovers, I always got bad hangovers. Even as a teen, I'm very sensitive as a person. I feel things deeply and I really felt my hangovers.

Even as a teenager, I remember them being pretty shocking. And then as I got older, they did get worse. I really remember that feeling where it would be like a whole week. Yeah. I've just feeling so rough. And it was a very anxious feeling for me, that kind of anxiety. Yeah. That would maybe not even be particularly bad the day of the hangover.

I'd just feel awful. But then it would be like the second day that I'd... And you binge eat then. Well, I do. Oh my good. You kind of you want stodgy food, don't you? To sell cup the hangover. I used to be so healthy during the week.

Yeah. And then on the weekend, like binge drink and binge eat. Yeah. And then be like, this is balance. And then just do it again, like, every week. it was every week did you drink every weekend growing up yeah I don't drink very much now

at all not not for reasons similar to you merely in the way I don't think I've ever really had an uncomfortable relationship with alcohol one of the reasons which is probably more similar to your reason to stop in it just makes me feel absolutely shit makes me feel crap yeah and I think that's hormones and being in your 40s and I interviewed a doctor

for women's health recently Dr Fenula Barton the menopause medic and I said is the perimenopause to blame for the fact I can't drink anymore and she said it absolutely is so I think it's more when I was coming into paper off rather than an uncomfortable relationship with alcohol

that you know rooted in childhood trauma your uncomfortable relationship with alcohol how did it feel putting that down on paper in bad drunk as you said if someone had told you 10 years ago that you were going to write a tell all whereas when you first became sober you couldn't even admit to anyone you'd stop drinking

and were lying saying you were antibiotic. So that seems like a quite a dramatic changing attitude in the space of three years to write a book for millions of people to read. So I, maybe about six months after I stopped drinking, I started talking about it on social media. And I'd say I had a bit of a shift with how I would share on social media

about five or six years ago when I was pregnant with my first daughter, Sienna. And up until then, it was kind of just posting like quite glossy content and not really talking about anything, any deeper issues. And I started sharing about, you know, pregnancy symptoms, how I was finding it anxieties that I had and connecting with my audience in a different way and found it really, really helpful to just speak to other people that had similar issues and found it really comforting. And it really helped me.

So when I decided to stop drinking, I'd like, okay, maybe I need to reach out and speak to lots of other sober curious people. and the book kind of stemmed from that because I had such a big response from people, but particularly women and mums who also felt the same as me and getting messages from them saying, thank you for talking about this. You've made me feel more comfortable. You've made me feel like it's okay to get help or it's made me feel that I can also do it. If you've done it, I'm going to do it too. And those messages really are what spurred me on and what led to the book happening. It actually happened quite organically off the back of me talking about my alcohol-free journey on on Instagram. And with obviously talking about motherhood, has your

approach to motherhood changed since your ADHD diagnosis? And do you feel like more, it's almost a relief in a way to get that diagnosis? It's a relief. It doesn't, in some ways, it doesn't really make it that much easier because parenting with ADHD has its challenges and you know the kind of overstimulation can can be quite hard but I think it's helped me to understand just the way I have a deeper understanding of the way that I am the things that trigger me and how to emotionally regulate and how to properly look after myself so that I don't reach burnout because about two years ago I did have a burnout moment even though you know I'd stop drinking and that didn't necessarily, like, removing alcohol didn't just fix my problems.

If anything, it just makes everything a lot clearer. Yeah, I get that. So, because a lot of people with alcohol, it's a split second or split night to forget all that. Or you know it's saying, you think, oh, it don't matter, it's fine. And everything in that moment is phone and carefree. So it does blur, just kind of blurs the problem. And then the next day it's like, okay, this shit's still here. And now I feel tired, grumpy, awful still dealing with it.

So it just kind of removes one factor. But you're, I mean, you've completely changed now in that you do, you love your cold plunges, your wellness, you get up. Have you kind of on purpose structured this new routine? Or did you just fall into it and think, you know what, I mean, I like this. I'll keep going with it. I think I discovered kind of wellness in my 20s. I think I was also looking for something to help me, to help balance out.

the unhealthy relationship with alcohol so I'd kind of still binge drinking on the weekend but would get really into my wellness during the week but now that I've stopped drinking having that wellness routine really is just really crucial actually just to keep me on track and to help with my mental health and to help set me up in the morning

and feel like I've got a kind of checklist of things that I need to try and do every day and if I let them slip for a couple of days I really notice it and it's hard with kids like it doesn't all work out. It's hard to keep to a routine, but I try to as much as I can

and try to be strict with it, even if it means getting up extra early. And yeah, it can sometimes feel like, oh, it's like another thing I've got to do, but actually it's really important. You're an absolute picture of health. Your skin is glowing. Your hair looks fantastic.

Take us through your morning routine because we're going to take notes, yeah, we need Millie's secrets. Do you know, after I had kids, I've really struggled with hair loss. Yeah, like hair shedding and hair thinning. And I was like, oh my God, my body's been through so much. Now my hair's falling out. And I've been using the Pan 10 Grow Abundance serum kind of for the last couple of months.

And yeah, I've really noticed it's helped particularly around the hairline. There's more hair growth. And it's definitely longer. I cut it quite short about a year ago. And now it's actually really nice. I wanted to grow it a bit longer again. It just feels healthier. My scalp feels healthier.

So that's my kind of hack. I put that in every day. It's just really light. It's really lightweight. So you can use it every day. It doesn't weigh your hair down. And then skin, I'm really into my active. So my retinol, I'm quite strict with that with my SPF as well.

But just I think having a really good routine being disciplined to really stick to it. And then I love, I love some, you know, regular treatments, occasional treatments. I'm honest about it on social media. like, you know what? What's your favorite tweakment? I'll tell you my favorite tweakment if you tell me yours. I really love polynucleotides. Yes.

What are those? What are those? So it's called salmon sperm. It's like DNA from a salmon. I don't know if it's officially salmon sperm. It cells taken from a salmon. I think salmon sperm's just like caught on. It helps to regenerate the skin.

So you put it on the skin. So it's injected. Oh, okay. But it's not like a filler. But it goes into the skin and then helps the skin to basically look younger. Yeah. Because there's a big move away from fillers and Botox and, you know, looking done and just looking a better version of you. Like you've had a good night's sleep, which is a little bit elusive to us, mums.

That's right. Just make me look really rested. Yeah. So have you had any three months? I've not on my face. Nice gem and tonic beams. Oh, yeah. So Gem has got her own skin.

I mean, my mate's all said we'd have Botox when we were 40 and we got to 40 and we all just said no. Because I've got friends who have had it and you can't tell. And they look, it's like a tweakment. Like the J-Lo effects. They look like J-Lo, they've aged. And I have another friend who had it. And it looked like Jafar off Aladdin. That eyebrows went so high up.

And I was like, oh, my God. So I think it's finding someone who you trust. I've got a fear that it could go right, it could go wrong. So I'm kind of like just let it age naturally for now. I'm not saying, never say never. Yeah. You know, I could be in six months' time looking like the catwoman, you never know. I think the most painful beauty treatment hands down is eyebrow threading.

Really? It makes these sleeves. No, mine is Morpheus 8. Oh, I haven't. Radio frequency and microneedling combined. Yeah. Yeah, well, I've had microneedling. I've not had the morphios, though.

I had something called Betenza a long time ago, which is similar to morphia state, but not as invasive. It wasn't too bad, but I've seen some after shots of people having the morphosate where there's literally blood dripping from there. That's what I mean. It scares me to do stuff. Losing hair is a normal part of life, especially as we get older. But for many women,

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It's lightweight, non-greasy, and you can use it day or night on wet or dry hair. And right now, it's 50% off at boots, so head to your nearest store and give it a try today. You've talked about matrescence. Is that how you pronounce it? Matrescence. I do apologise.

The shift women go through when they become mothers that isn't really discussed. What do you wish someone had told you before Sienna arrived? Because we first met before Sienna arrived, because you've been on the cover of women's health four times. I know. Is that a record? It is a record.

Yes. Yes. So, four times. Gem has been on three. Yeah. So she needs to sweet talk me. Yeah. We need to do one again, don't we?

I keep trying to get Claire on the cover of her own magazine, and she won't. People don't want to see that. You should do it. So what do you wish people have maybe told you before Ciena come arrived? And also explain what matrescence is as well. So metresence is, it's kind of like the, it's the period. after becoming a mother that I don't think is really talked about and it's the change that you go through when you become a mother and we now know that your brain and your brain chemistry is actually

changed after you've given birth so you are you are literally not the same and we're you know we're kind of everyone's like oh there's a new baby and the new mom is often forgotten about and you've you've gone through this massive shift your body's just grown a baby then you're dealing with no sleep and you've got this new identity in the world and you're kind of grieving for your past freedom, your past identity, you're now a new person and a mother and it's like how are you going to like how are you going to continue in the world like how everything shifts, everything changes. I don't know how you felt in that in that period but I really struggled particularly with my first altar. I struggled with the fact that my brain seemed to be working more slowly.

So I went from a hectic, full-on environment. I worked at a magazine called Look. I don't know if everyone remembers Look. It was a weekly fashion magazine. Do you remember it? Yeah. And so I went from that environment to having my child and struggling with being at home and that loss of identity.

But I didn't fit into sort of mummy culture. You know, going to baby sensory classes was my idea of health. as was sitting with women who had very little in common with apart from we just popped a baby out. That said, I had a very good NCT friends. I'm still friends with now. But those aside, I struggled with the sort of expectations on new mums

that you suddenly wear flowery dresses and quite comfortable walking round town and baking with your baby in the pram and going to these stupid classes singing nursery rhymes. Yeah. It's just not me. And I remember when I came up, when I came back to work eventually, really being worried and surprised how much slow on my brain was working.

Because I hadn't been challenging myself intellectually for the last seven months or eight months that I took off work. Yeah, I remember trying to do an interview when I think my daughter was maybe about six weeks old and I was breastfeeding. It was on Zoom and I just couldn't think. I couldn't get words out. I was like, that was an absolute shit show afterwards. I was like, wow. And yeah, I really felt that the brain just being. So I think sleep deprivation makes everything in life harder.

You know, with or without kids, if you're not sleeping. Yeah. Everything is tough for me with my first. It was the, I struggled physically because before I had me a six years ago, I was really, well, still I'm into my training now. It's come back, but I was strength training, I was weightlifting, I was tie boxing, doing all this stuff. So in my head, I thought a new childbirth was going to be horrendously painful,

but I thought my body's capable, I can do it. Cut to, in the end, 14-hour labour emergency C-section, then a postpartum haemorrhage. So I came home four days later thinking my body had physically failed me and I struggled with that. How can I do all these deadlifts and all these drills but I cannot birth a baby naturally, you know? And I struggled with that mentally.

And I remember my first gym session back, my stitches, oh, the wound was killing me. I was trying to do my hip, I remember just crying in the gym thinking I'm never going to be able to feel the way I felt exercising again. I mean, six years later and another sprog later,

I feel even better. So it has come back and to anyone listening who currently feels that way, it can, but it took me a good 18 months. It was at least 18 months until I was in the gym thinking, oh my God, she's back.

She's back. And then I went and got pregnant again. But yeah, it's, For me, that's what I struggled with, but no one spoke about it. And everyone, you know, expected me online to, I hate the term, snap back. But I got a lot of people saying, oh my God, your kids won and you're still not training properly. I got, and I was like, yeah, because mentally I'm not, I just wasn't there. It's a huge trauma, I think, for any woman to, like you say, carry, grow and birth a child.

And then after, you then have this responsibility for life, like to make sure this little human grows up healthy. and happy and has manners and, you know, it's such a massive thing. I don't think we give women enough credit for being parents or dads. You just can kind of forget yourself. You forget, like, you're asking you, mum, like, do you have any hobbies? What do you enjoy? Like, what's your favourite colour? She can't be able to tell you.

Like, it's got no idea. No. It's kind of rediscovering yourself again. One of the things I found really hard was the changes in my body as well. I put on about 30KG with my first daughter. Like I just was like I'm really hungry I feel sick Eating was the only thing that stopped me feeling sick

And I just was like This is the first time in my life that I've just completely relaxed around food And just I did kind of go for it And then once I'd had the baby It was a bit of a shock Yeah I think I thought it was all baby And then after and it's also lockdown

Oh yes that's even yeah A lot of us were at the end of It's banana bread central won't it? Yeah the end of my So yeah was lockdown And then you're at home and you're not training and you're like feeding and I found the breastfeeding. I was just so hungry all the time.

Not sleeping, snacking kind of throughout the night as well whenever I was feeding. And it just took me a while to, you know, kind of get back into exercise but also even just to start fitting like myself again. And I found it really hard to love my body. And then I felt guilty. Yeah, because you think you've been blessed with this gift of motherhood that so many women crave. and you're lucky enough to do it but then you think but am I really happy

with how I look and how I feel after and you're like yeah of course you are because you've got this yeah it's a real mind field and I think the hormones that you know the roller coaster of hormones that you go through

and I was similar to I put on three and a half stone with my first and she was four pound 10 so when yeah I was like how can I have like three and a half stone weight and like literally a four pound 10 baby but I was the same I was like

pizza and Harry Bowles. I just completely changed how I ate whereas the second pregnancy I was more mindful I was more mindful I was like I still need to like eat some protein, eat some veggies eat kind of how I would usually eat

but then yeah I did obviously had a bit extra as well but just a bit more restrained Could you imagine yourself now parenting if you were still drinking or is that just a complete absolute no I'm just so glad for my girls that I stopped when I did So my youngest was six months old when I stopped drinking.

Sienna would have been 18 months. And so they won't have any memory. Yeah, I mean, parenting's hard. And it's been like it gets, it's getting more complicated as they get older. You know, it's like different needs. But it's challenging. And I find being, keeping myself regulated so that I'm constantly thinking about they're learning from me. Everything I'm showing them in the way that I react to them is showing,

You know, if they're behaving badly, I always think that they must have, they're picking up on that from me. So if they're rude to me, it's like if I've been rude to them and just really kind of being conscious of the way that I speak to them, the way I respond to them. If I was still drinking, I would definitely be more reactive, more snappy, reacting from a place where I'm triggered rather than a place where I'm calm. Yeah, that makes sense. But the evolved, engaged parenting you just described would be tough for any parents, especially someone. who has ADHD. Someone, someone very close to me has ADHD and has dyspraxia, which I know is your dual diagnosis and that's quite common. And they are, they struggle to focus and they're less of the hyper focus and more of the distractor, you know, very easily distracted and you have to,

I'm prone to mood swings and you have to really sort of really work to get them to do things. So it's parenting when your mind, is working like that is extra tough for you. Yeah, it is. I've got two very strong-willed girls. Yeah. Which I love for them, but also I'm like,

I've made you like this, and now it is a battle for me because they are so stubborn. And, you know, often there are quite big meltdowns. I mean, that's pretty common with a four and five-year-old. Yeah.

But it's like keeping your cool in those situations is, I don't always get it right. And then it's like if I care, if I do react in a way that I regret, it's like the apologising and, you know, making, I think that's so important as well. Like we're human, we don't always get it right. So, you know, really getting down on their level and chatting to them and saying, I'm sorry that, I reacted like that.

I'm sorry, I raised my voice. I shouldn't have spoken to you like that. And that I find that really helps. Yeah. And your children are close in age as well. So again. They're 18 months apart. Yeah, that's another reason why hormonally it would have been hard because you

body doesn't they say it takes two years doesn't it for your body to recover like hormonally and I did my women's health cover shoot after Sienna and then I got pregnant like that week celebrating yeah I feel sexy I am so gorgeous and then by the time it came out yeah I was I was like three months pregnant was that the one in the house in South London with all the foliage and all the greenery I think it was the one after that I think okay that was pre-kids Right. I think I get confused.

Your timeline is pre or post kids now. Yeah. That's how you go pre or post kids. Because your second one was, or third one was after, second one was after me, a third one after Tiago. I had her in the July and we shot in the October. Yeah. And then the last one was that after Tiago?

It was my 40th, yeah. So again, we had him in the July and we shot the following. How amazing that though? You know, you guys going on the cover of women's health, which is probably intimidating for 99.9% of the population, yet you guys did it after having kids. Yeah. Yeah, no, it's good and it's great.

Obviously, I think for our kids to see you one day. And that's the, it's in the title, health, women's health. It's not women's size, women's bikini shots, women, it's health. And you can, there's many different forms of health. And I remember very nearly saying no after Mia. As I said, sure, it's too. soon after I'm not going to feel my best. But then I thought, no, because that's the whole point.

I don't look how I did. I don't feel how I did, but I can still, you know, hopefully empower some women who are feeling similar. Yeah, absolutely. But I know both of all your covers and, yeah, something to be proud of. And definitely something blow up and put on your toilet wall. My mom's got them all on the wall. Yeah.

So whenever I go to her house, I always get to go to. the bathroom. I'm like, oh. Have you not got them on your wall? I actually don't have them all on the wall at home. I need to, I don't have editing any of the covers I've done at home. I've got them in a box so they're not on the wall. I should have them on the wall to show the girls. We can send you PDFs. You should have them going up the stairs, I think. Yeah. That would be in order going up the stairs. That's a good idea. Yeah. But you need to do that now and send me a picture. I'm like, okay. I wanted to speak about, you've mentioned habit stacking. Yes.

What's that and what do you do? There was a book that came out. It's so popular last year called Automic Habits. I don't know if you saw it. So it's all about how you can habit stack your habits. So you can basically, it's like how many things can you do back to back or kind of at the same time and get fit them into your routine, things that make you feel good.

So for me in the morning I quite like a habit stack. So it's things like. like I'll sit in front of my red light panel. Sorry, some people might be like, what is that? But I'm really into red light therapy. So I'll do meditation, which I've done for years in the morning. And I do it in front of my red light panel. So I'm kind of getting the red light while I meditate.

So that's a simple explanation of a little habit stack. Right. Just like a non-negotiable in the morning. Yeah. But you can do them at any, you can do a habit stack at any time of the day. Do you have things like that that you do when you're like? She definitely well. I have the same.

I have the red light. I have the red light blanket. and we have a nice bath. Ground in math. Grounding mat. I have a nice bath. Yeah. P-M-E-F, Matt.

Yeah. You could sit all day and talk. Yeah. Yeah, but my not, that's called you woo-woo though, am I? I don't know. My husband says I need like a room just to keep all my, like, wellness bits in. They were all, like, stashed under the bed.

Yeah. Ours are rolled up everywhere. But I love it. I always think if there's a way to benefit your health and your mood, and it's done in a natural way, such as red light. But go, my fellow complain. because he comes to bed at night expecting the lingerie and hair done

and I'm on a red light mat with a red light helmet on, a red light eye mask. Like watching a serial killer documentary and he's like, for fuck say, Gemma, this is not good for me, but for me I'm like, no, I love it.

But it does, it makes you feel better and there's something about a mental checklist as well, I think, especially when you're busy, if you can get through a mental checklist of things you've done, that I've not trained this morning, and I'm going to train this afternoon, and I'm already thinking, oh, I'm going to train this afternoon. I'm not very good with exercise in the afternoon.

If I don't get up and do it first thing, I'm all day thinking, oh, got to do this when I'm getting. So that's my lesson learned that I should have got up earlier to train before leaving it. Like in the morning, I make like a big, like a kind of one liter of, like not really warm but like not cold water, like we're kind of room temperature of water. And I put like my greens powder in it that's got like all the vitamins and like nutrients that I need for the day. I put like vitamin D, extra vitamin D in it. I put electrolytes in it and then I drink that all, you know, half an hour before I have breakfast. And then I know I've already kind of

got ahead of my hydration, got all my vitamins and minerals. I've done it in one go. Yeah. And like that's one I think is quite, again, quite a good like habit stack. Do you pay close attention to your diet? I do. I do. I'd say since my 20s is probably the first time when I was probably after Maiden Chelsea that I started to think about. what I was eating whereas before I'd never really paid any attention to it I'd just always always just eaten whatever I wanted and then in my twenties like I would say I used to macro track I got quite into macro tracking but to the point that it was probably a bit unhealthy and I got a bit obsessive with it so people that don't know what that is

it's like eating a goal every day when I'd work with a nutritionist to work out what amount of protein carbs fats I needed to hit each day and then use like my fitness pal to track all of it, put in everything you eat. I mean, it's kind of exhausting. But it does really work and I found it great when I wanted to build muscle and I did it alongside training. But now I'm kind of more relaxed. I'm not conscious about, okay, I'm eating that much. I'm not weighing my food. I went through a phase of like weighing everything for a while and it's just like, feels too structured. Yeah, it takes the enjoyment out of eating, doesn't it?

but so last January I realized that I wanted I decided it was January I'm going to do something for my health and I decided to completely overhaul my diet and quit sugar wow so I listened to a podcast completely quit sugar completely quit sugar because after I stopped drinking sugar became I would always you know had a bit of a sweet tooth but sugar became a bit of advice and also with ADHD it's like your brain wants dopamine yeah I'd be like if I'm not getting it from alcohol, I'm not having alcoholic drinks. So I'm just, you know, and I think definitely when you first stop drinking, like be kind to yourself.

And if you're going to have, you know, a slice of cake, whatever the sweet thing is. And that stops you going and having a drink, then like allow yourself to have the sweet thing. But it can, you know, sugar can become an addiction as well. Well, there will be lots of people listening to this now in the New Year thinking, I want to make those changes. I want to cut out sugar, quite out alcohol, or at least reduce. So what advice would you, would you give to anyone listening one, to start from 2026?

I listened to one of the Dr. Mark Hyman podcasts, and it's all about his 10-day sugar detox. And then I got his book and just followed it myself. And I basically had a smoothie for breakfast, a soup for lunch and a stew for dinner. And it's, you know, with no sugar, no carbohydrates. And it's quite high fat, which kind of helps keep you full. and I just even after a couple of days

I felt so much better what was in the smoothie was it was there fruit or no fruit sugars? No fruit but after after the kind of initial 10 days you can start having up to 50 grams of of sugar a day but it might be just you know some berries

you know I like still love to have like a little bit of honey on my yoghurt or like I'm not I'm not as strict now yeah but just like no I don't have any refined sugar right but I also since following his plan, I haven't gone back to eating kind of processed food. So it's like a whole food diet. So I basically just eat protein, veggies, fats, like nuts. But I don't eat any grains. I don't

eat any pulses. It's when you said about the... It's keto, basically. Yeah. So stopping drinking to sugar. Devinia said the same, didn't she? Do you remember? She said her brain was craving. Yeah. And I would always be really hungry and really hungry between meals and I actually feel quite shaky. I'd get like this, when I was hungry, I'd like almost like shake and feel like a bit weak and like I was going to pass out. Like if I didn't, if I didn't eat like every two hours, I'd start to feel quite shaky.

And since I stopped sugar, that's completely gone. Yeah, it's a hard one to come off sugar. Yeah, I was doing the weekly shop yesterday, the glamour of my Sundays. And it just come over me that I wanted Harrowbo. And I tried to not. go down that aisle and go down the other aisles, but it would not shut up this voice in my head. And I ended up buying the bloody harrowbow.

And I didn't eat the whole bag, but it was almost like this animalistic I need some, you know. I can't go food shopping hungry. No. That's like a killer for me. And I do it a lot online as well. But I let my kids have sweets. Like they get it as a reward.

So if they've like eaten their dinner, they have we have a sweetie jar. And they get like, they can choose a sweet. sweetie every day to have, like, after their dinner. It was like, it was a little treat. So I'm not completely like, don't give anyone any sugar. I just knew for me, I had quite an unhealthy relationship with it.

Yeah. Like I did with alcohol and I felt great doing it when I did the detox and I just kind of continued it. But I'm not so strict with it that I'll break it every now and then. And I'm not like, oh, I've come out of ketosis. It's a big, like, I just. No, I think because once you have the tools to know to get back on it, Yeah.

It's so much easier. You know, I think it's a lot harder for people who don't have the structure and the knowledge. And also a lot of people don't think they have, it's not, it's just like a self-worth thing. People don't think they deserve to feel a certain way and they do. But once you, once you have that and it clicks, you can turn it on and off. It becomes so much easier. And the 80-20 rule for me works.

Does that work for you? Yeah. Yeah, you need to not catastrophize, and I am guilty of doing this. you eat well all week and then it all goes a little bit wrong and saturday think oh well that's that then and then you go on to days or weeks or weeks because you're like oh well i've like i've broken it now and i think it's the same message for anyone if they want to stop drinking and they stop for a while and then they have another drink it's like you don't then that you have to think okay well i'll just go back to drinking now then you know you can forgive yourself and go okay yeah

yeah we're all human you know and you can just start again the next day or yeah Yeah. Straight away. Yeah. So what does exercise look for you? You've just finished your copper field trek. I just finished my trek. How far was that?

100K over five days in the Sahara Desert. Goodness me. It was amazing. I bet. Yeah. Like one day we did about, we did 30K on one day and my feet were just like killing me. That felt it felt quite long. I definitely wouldn't particularly want to repeat that in a day again.

But I actually really enjoyed the trekking part. We did it for Copperfield. I did the Munroes in Scotland. So we did five Munroes over five days, similar, 100K. And you'd love it, actually, Claire. You really would. But your camp is wild over here. That's the hard part because you do the grueling trek. And at the end, at least you think, maybe I could have a bath. Maybe I could put my feet in Epsom salts. Maybe. No, you're going back to a tent. But the cause, you know, it's for breast cancer. It's incredible. And you meet some brilliant, brilliant women. I'm still friends with the kids. the girls on my team. They all came to my birthday. So the fact you've done that is really good, like raising awareness as well, yeah. Yeah, I had a breast, I have a lump that I found

and about two years ago. The first time I had it checked, they said it was fine and then just said, keep an eye on it. And about a year later, it felt like it had grown. Then I had some tests done and they were like inconclusive

so I had to have more tests. And in that waiting period, it was really scary. And I kind of said to myself, if I get the, clear I'm going to help other women who are told they have cancer when they go for that very scary appointment so yeah that led me to end up doing the copperfield track and it was an incredible experience and I actually feel so like healthy since doing it like I think yeah

better than kind of any of the boot camps I've been on for a week I came back and I was like oh I just feel really strong and yeah all the all the trekking was really good for me all the fresh air yeah because it is breast cancer When answering younger women is becoming much more common. By the time this comes out, Jessie J will be on our cover, and she's just our breast cancer at 37. We had Leanne Haynesby on the podcast recently, the Peloton instructor. She had it when she was 34.

We've had Amy Dowden on the cover of women's health. She had it in her 30s. It seems to be coming scarily, worryingly more common in younger women, whereas historically we always thought it was a post-menopausal. Yeah, that's what I grew up thinking. Yeah. But it's, yeah, Copperfield's message is all about early detection, saving lives and stopping the late detection of breast cancer.

So it's about, yeah, informing people and getting them to start checking from their 20s, even teen, like even as soon as you get boobs, I think. It's great as a mother of daughters, you're doing that already, raising awareness and things. A hundred kilometres in the Sahara, that takes serious training and conditioning. What is your day-to-day fitness routine? The day-to-day fitness is running. I went for a quick run this morning, because I only had half an hour.

So it's kind of whatever fits into my day. It might just be doing a workout at home for half an hour or going to Pilates. I love Reforma. I found that's been great after having kids just for the core stability. And it kind of helps to keep any back pain at bay. But I find if I'm doing my Pilates,

I'd just stay kind of pain-free. And then weight training. Those are my main three. I did a hot yoga yesterday. Yeah. So I kind of like that's like two in one. It's like I'm sweating. I'm getting that kind of sauna experience,

but also doing my weekly yoga. But it was actually a bit intense yesterday. I was like, I don't know if I didn't need it. But some kind of yoga is good for my mind if I can fit it in. But I normally prioritise more the weight training, the Pilates and the running. I can get on board with everything except the running. Yeah, both of us hate running.

I say running, but it's like jogging. Have you done a marathon? No, I like running 5K. Yeah, let's see. I'm not a runner at all. I love strength training. I do a 10K every year just because it's for a local charity. I just can't get on board with it.

As soon as I set off, I think, I just don't want to do it. I got into it in lockdown and I just, for my mind, I think it's with the ADHD brain as well. There's some relief that you get during the run, but also afterwards I get like I can really focus after I've done a run. No. You're not going to convince that, I saw you. No.

No. So obviously your book, Bad Drunk, That's out again now in January. Yes, so it's coming out. It will be out now in paperback. So, yeah, it feels like great to have the opportunity for it to reach even more people. I still get messages now from often women, actually. Like most days I wake up and have messages from somebody saying, like, thank you. And it's really helped me. And what is next for you in 2020?

what's on the bucket list for this year? I feel like last year was a real year of growth for me. Really like a kind of shedding of skins and really starting to step into myself and really truly get to know myself. I've kind of let go of some toxic relationships, made some changes in my life. And I feel really good about the year ahead.

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So, Gemma and I are coming to your lovely house in London and you're going to cook us dinner. Okay. What are you going to cook us? Should have prepared this answer. Okay, you're coming around for dinner. We've invited ourselves. Okay. You've got to a lot of people's houses, aren't, this year.

Okay, is it like a weeknight or is it like a weekend? I'd say a Friday. Yeah, Friday night. Which in our house is a chippy. Chippy thief for us on a Friday. Yeah, I like a chip. Okay, it probably might be something like a lamb tajine. Nice.

Got back from Morocco. Oh, we haven't had that as an answer. No. So in the winter particularly, I love having, you know, always warm food. And I love stews or something you can do in a slow cooker. Yeah. Mix the house smell nice. And so something like lamb with like apricots and then I'd probably do it with some like roasted cauliflower, cuscus, although I can't eat the cuscus but I'd do it with cus and and yes, veggies.

Nice. Lovely. Well, the next one, coffee or alcohol-free wine? Neither. Do not drink coffee? I've quit coffee as well. Oh, wow. How was that?

It's like, it's been like breaking up with a toxic ex. Really? bit of it like I could just keep going back. Yeah. And knowing it doesn't make me feel great, but I just love it in that instant feeling, I get. Yeah. But then like later on in the day, I really regret it. Okay.

Yeah, it's just been triggering my anxiety bit recently. So I'm kind of currently off coffee. And I don't love alcohol free wine. I don't want something that tastes like alcohol. Yeah. But I love like other alternatives, but just like not specifically not anything that's like trying to be the same taste as alcohol. Because you can get those, um, like,

sparkling, fruity waters, dash waters and stuff, but you put them in a sort of a gin-type glass with a lemon. I drink lots of trip. Yeah. I think kombucha is a good. Yeah, kombucha is great. Yeah. Combucha should be a good shout if you're trying to not drink, but you want the,

not an alcoholic taste, but the fins. Adaptogenic drinks that have ingredients that make you relaxed. Yeah. So they help you to feel calmer, which I like, they like socialising. So you're going to a desert island for a year, and you can only take one thing, what is it? And it can't be your children. Your phone?

I think that's cheating. We have had that answer before, but then they said, oh, without a charge, and you've only got a day's worth anyway. Yeah, and you wouldn't have any signal, would you? No. That's such a good question. Well, so we've had a football.

We've had SPF. SPF is quite a fan. Yeah, I was going to say SPF or like music. Kind of. You could live on like coconuts. and crab like in Castaway. That's true. Could be like a Tom Hanks.

And a football you could call Winston. Football you could call. Oh, that's such a hard one. Can I bring my dog? Yeah. I pick my dog as well. Before my kids. Yeah.

Before I can't bring my kids. Can I bring my dog? I've got a pug called Luna. Oh, yeah. Luna could keep your company. Yeah. I said literally the last thing I would take is my kids. I'm going away for a year for a break.

No. They're not going in. What's the last thing that made you belly laugh? I think my children dancing. Yeah. They do these ridiculous dancers that are just so, they're often quite, quite silly and rude and just involve lots of like bottom wiggling

and just being really cheeky. They're them dancing at the weekend. And finally, what's one thing people listening or watching today can do to make themselves feel a little bit better. Be kinder to yourself. Yeah. I think it's like often, it's overlooked how important just the voice in our head is

and paying attention to how we speak to ourselves. Yeah, I like that one. Give yourself the grace. Yeah, give yourself grace. 2026, fresh start. Yeah. Give yourself the grace. Oh, well, thank you so much for joining us, Millie.

Good luck with the book. I hope it does it really, really well. And, yeah. Thank you for coming to Just as well. Thanks for having me. Thank you.