Just As Well, The Women's Health Podcast - Mission Confidence: The Scummy Mummies on Rediscovering Yourself Post-Baby + Single Parent Dating

Episode Date: May 13, 2021

Welcome to Mission Confidence, a special edition of the Going For Goal podcast sponsored by Philips, designed to help you on your body confidence journey. This podcast has been created as part of our Project Body Love initiative, which is all about challenging the way we think, feel and speak about our bodies, embracing what makes us unique and putting an end to negative self-talk and embarrassment. Philips believe that hair removal should be a choice, and that it looks different for everyone. If you do choose to remove your body hair - whether you prefer to take it all off or to tackle your legs, armpits or bikini line only - Philips has a range of hair removal tools to suit your needs. On Mission Confidence, over four episodes and with the help of some very wise women, we’re going to be exploring confidence in its various facets and forms – with the goal of helping you tap into yours. Today, we're discussing how women can find their way back to who they are as individuals after becoming parents, with Ellie Gibson and Helen Thorn AKA comedy duo The Scummy Mummies. Between the laughs (these two are gloriously unfiltered) we discuss the often-complex journeys of body acceptance that can play out post-baby, plus why small acts of self-care may prove powerful when it comes to reinforcing confidence. Of course, we also talk about body hair: specifically, why there's no right or wrong approach, plus how one newly-single mum is enjoying experimenting with the Philips Lumea IPL device as she prepares to date again this summer.  Join The Scummy Mummies on Instagram: @scummymummies Join Roisín on Instagram: @roisin.dervishokane If you enjoyed the episode, sign up for the Project Body Love event, in association with Philips, which is taking place online on the 15 & 16 May. Sessions are free to attend. Register now to reserve your place and receive the full two-day schedule here. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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This podcast has been created as part of our Project Body Love Initiative, which is all about challenging the way we think, feel and speak about our bodies, embracing what makes us unique and putting an end to negative self-talk and embarrassment. Phillips believes that hair removal should be a choice and that it looks different for everyone. If you do choose to remove your body hair, whether you prefer to take it all off or tackle your legs, armpits or bikini line only, Phillips has a range of hair removal tools to suit your needs. And our mission confidence, over four episodes, and with the help of some very wise women, we're going to be exploring confidence in its various facets and forms, with the

goal of helping you tap into yours. On this episode of mission confidence, we're focusing specifically on the confidence challenge of rediscovering yourself after having children. My guests are the brilliant and joyously unfiltered comedy duo Ellie Gibson and Helen Thorne, founder of the Scummy Mummy's podcast. We discuss the often complex journeys of body acceptance that can play out after you've had a baby, the power of small acts of self-care to reinforce confidence, why there's no right or wrong approach when it comes to body hair, and how one newly single mum is enjoying experimenting with the Phillips Lumeyer IPL device as she prepares to date again this summer. Ellie Gibson and Helen Thorne, aka the Scummy Mummies, welcome to Mission Confidence,

a little mini spin-off series from going for goal. How are you both? I'm all right. Thank you. Thanks for happiness. Yes, I'm delighted. I've just left my children downstairs and I don't know what they're looking at the internet. So I'm going to have a lovely time while I not think about them.

So how many children do you have? I have two. I've got Hugo who's nine and Matilda who's 12. Great names. Great names. I've got Charlie who's also known who was actually born 11 days before. Is it before or after Hugo? I think it's after Hugo.

After, yeah. After you go, with the same midwife. By complete coincidence, we didn't know each other then, so there's a fun fact. No way. And I've got Joe Who's six, so yeah. So obviously we're recording this in mid-April. Things are kind of slowly opening up. How has the last year been from a parent's perspective?

Let's start with Helen. Well, I found it a very bonding time. A great opportunity for us to form a new family of three because I became a single mum two weeks before the first lockdown in March. So that was, yes, it was eventful. Turns out we really like biscuits. We're very good at sitting down. My son has got very good at Fortnite.

And I've got very good at letting go of any standards. So that's it. And I'm terrible at maths. So in a nutshell. Yeah. It's that thing, isn't it? You thought you got to leave maths behind. And then suddenly you're responsible for it.

Gosh, yeah. How was homeschooling for you, Ellie? Oh, yeah, it was a living nightmare. Yeah, no, but I outsourced quite a lot of it. I was very lucky. So in the first lockdown, my husband's a contractor and he was between jobs. So financially, you know, that's obviously absolutely terrifying. But in terms of practical terms, it meant that I just made him do the childcare while I, you know, kept scummy-armies going.

So, yeah, that was nice. I'm very, I was going to say I'm very grateful to him, but actually they're half his children, on I'm glad he did his job. That's really what I should say. What a relief he didn't let you down. Yes, yes. Well done for parenting your own children and doing a job that otherwise I would have had to do, even though I have exactly the same relationship to them.

Well done you. Ah, the standards. Ah, the standards. Yeah. So in Mission Confidence, as you probably tell by the titles, this is our mini-series in association with Phillips, and we are looking at Confidence in all. all it's different guises. And today with you guys, we are talking about rediscovering yourself after becoming a mum. So question to both of you, why do you think it's important for moms to

think and talk about and develop confidence about who they are themselves outside of that identity of being a mum? I think it's really important because mother ring, motherhood can be all-encompassing and you feel like you're always giving to somebody else. Like you're feeding them, you're changing them. you know, someone said it's your frontal lobe of your brain is completely changed because all of a sudden you're worrying about another human being all of the time. And that is exhausting. And, you know, we've said this on many times on the Scummy Mommy's podcast, like you can't pour from an empty cup. Eventually you will burn out when you give and give and give. And you feel like that is your sole purpose is to sort of make sure this other person or two people or six kids or whatever are doing well. So I think that's it. But, you know, eventually you will. we will lose part of yourself. So you have to be strong and carve that out because no one else gives it to you. Your children and your partners or whatever will take as much as they want from you. And you have to be really strict about setting up boundaries and being good to yourself.

And that might be just a glass of wine in the toilet or going for a walk or anything, but you need some time to yourself. So Ellie, what's your perspective? What's your perspective on this? And can you also tell me a little bit how you came to that realisation? Yeah, so I think, you know, here's the thing. I've spoken to a lot of women and men about having their first baby, and no one ever kind of says, oh, it's exactly what I thought it would be like, you know.

And I read all the books and it's exactly like it said in the books. And, you know, it's all fine. And I always know exactly what I'm doing. I think being a parent is about working out as you go along, isn't it? And you need a degree of confidence in yourself as a mum to do that because every family different and every child is different. so that's important. And for me, I think also confidence is sometimes it can be hard to feel confident. You can't just sort of magically produce it out of yourself.

And it helps if you have friends or, you know, a support network of other people who are also muddling through. And seeing other people doing it the same or perhaps worse than you can give you a real confidence boost. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I guess that's something that, so that's what you guys are all about, right? just kind of breaking down that the kind of the perfect trope that exists online about motherhood. Have I got that right? Yeah, basically we look really terrible to make other people feel better about themselves. And that is our gift to the world.

Some people are born to it. We were born to terribleness. Well, I have no children, but from the mums that I know, it sounds like you're doing the Lord's work. So thank you very much. We have blessed. We are blessed with our very messy houses. and our slightly, yeah, frazzled lives.

I think we're really lucky that we're in 2021 now that you can be whatever version, within reason of motherhood, that it's not just one particular way, that we're not all singing from the same hymn sheet. We are in terms of that we love our children, we want what's best for them, of course. But I think there's much more acceptance

and there's a whole lot more kind of camaraderie. or, you know, and I think social media, for all that sort of faults, has been brilliant in that respect. Because we're going, oh, we've had fish fingers three nights in a row. I'm like, yeah, me too. What's a vegetable? So that's been great. And can you tell me either of you, or maybe both of you, if this is true, you've obviously got this very, well, this quite relaxed and open and just very no-nonsense approach to motherhood and getting through it. and it's seemingly very non-performative, which I'm sure for a lot of mums is very refreshing.

So you've reached this point of understanding about how it's really important to foster your own identity as a mum. But was there a point before in your journeys, maybe when your children were younger or something, where you hadn't quite reached that realisation? I'm intrigued to know how you got there. I must admit it wasn't until I really met Ellie that I felt myself in a way because I had my first baby, had in Cambridge and I had lots of mum friends that we're all, you know, doing Annabel Carmel's weaning day to day to day. And I hadn't really found my tribe, my mum friends. So I think that

was really important and sort of letting go any ideas. And also my mum, I'm one of five children. My mum was the Vickers wife and very perfect and very clean living, never drank. And so she wouldn't be having like Prosecco themed play dates like I do, which I really enjoy. So, I think I think I had a lot of expectations on myself. And when I started to remove those expectations, I enjoyed myself and motherhood so much more. Yeah, whereas my mum was a massive slag. No, not really.

She would hate it if I said that. I don't mean that mum. She won't listen, it's fine. Yeah, no, I was lucky enough to have my mum. My mum is, you know, she's not a vicar's wife. She's a better way to put it. And I was actually living with her and my first baby was born, her and my dad,

because we were between houses and all that. So I was lucky enough to kind of have someone there who'd done it all before and who kind of led by example and showed me what to give a monkeys about and what to not give a monkeys about and, you know, and also frankly just did quite a lot of the work. So I had a more gentle introduction to motherhood. And that definitely helped, I think. Yeah, absolutely.

And so I want to talk there about, so you've kind of, you've both had these journeys, this post-baby journeys of figuring out who you are, aside from you, aside from mum's and parents, what do you, what are little things that each of you do to kind of, to have that time for yourself and to kind of reconnect with the Ellie or the Helen that existed before they were Ellie and Helen, the mum? I think having a career in stand-up has been transformational because when the world was less COVID-y, you know, maybe one or two nights a week we would go away on tour and so we'd stay at a hotel,

we do a show, you know, we were adored and, you know, had a really good time. Often we'd go for a curry afterwards, have a pub lunch. You know, I highly recommend this lifestyle choice, to be honest. And then I come home, I'm like, oh my God, my children, I'm so excited. And now, yeah, and now I'm a single parent. So I have my kids five days a week. And the other two nights, you know, I have a really nice time. Just to, you know, have a long bath and, you know, get quite intimate with a bottle of gin.

So there my sort of tips, but also doing things like exercise, getting back into exercise is a big shift in your 40s, I think people kind of get that confidence back as well. So I think I'm much more, not selfish, but much more clear about what I need as a human being rather than just a, you know, snack provider and bum wiper. Tell me that that's so interesting. Was there anything specific that happened when you kind of entered your 40s that woke you up to that? Or was it more of like a gradual progression? I'm just getting closer to death

I'm time's ticking Roshin I've got to get fit I've got to cheat death and also you know life's not a rehearsal but I just realise that you just get one chance at live

don't you and I and Ellie and I have a favourite film called Spinal Tap and there's a line in her that says have a good time all of the time

I think that's a good rule for life love that Ellie what about you yeah I think there was definitely a point where I don't think there was a specific instant

or a moment, but there was sort of a point where I sort of thought, oh, I'm going to have to do stuff for myself or I'm no good for anyone. You know, we could all, you know, try and be that mum who's constantly just focused on the child and doing everything for them. But eventually, yeah, you end up exhausted and grumpy and resentful, you know, all of the above. And so I just thought, yeah, I don't want to do that. So, but that's, it's easy said and done.

And again, it's obviously a. harder if you're on your own. And if you haven't got a supportive partner, it can be very tough as well. So I'm not just sitting here saying, you should just tell everybody you want to have a bath for three hours. I think it's about balance. So I do do, like Helen's saying, I do do like the self-care things you're supposed to do, like I do go running because mainly it's just time out of the house. And I do a bit meditation and all that hippie jazz. But I also, you know, do enjoy a nice glass of wine and, you know, watching Marriott at First Sight, Australia, things that, you know, probably aren't going to advance me as a human,

but they're going to advance my mental health and make me a nicer mum. I think it's so important when you make room for those relaxation things that aren't, as you say, going to necessarily make you a better human. It's not all about optimising. Yes, you're probably not going to get any smarter from watching Married at Fathsight, Australia.

It's probably the opposite. So body confidence and self-confidence could all be kind of tied up together. Which one in your experience, especially in those years, after having a baby, which one is it smarter to address first, the kind of the body confidence side or the having this confidence in yourself? Well, I think it depends partly which one you find most problematic. If you have a body confidence issue and that's affecting the way you live your

life and upsetting you, maybe deal with that, I guess. But for me personally, it's always been more about the mental thing and self-confidence. And, you know, when I got pregnant the first time, especially I was just like, oh wow, my body's going to do this amazing thing. And of course it's going to get bigger. And, well, I'm going to need to eat all those hob knobs because I'm growing a human. But for a lot of people, I know that's not their experience. So I think you just have to have a look at what's going on in your brain and what's that related to and then deal prioritise up like that, I guess.

Just being really honest with yourself. Yeah, but kind to yourself as well, you know. and yeah, body confidence is a tricky thing because we all have different bodies and we all feel about them differently, don't we? Absolutely. It would be good to get your thoughts on that as well, Helen. Yeah, absolutely. It's interesting. And someone said this.

Like when I've always been quite overweight, like I've always been quite curvy, plus size, whatever, fat. Just fat. I've been quite fat for a while. And when I became pregnant, my fatness was acceptable. And so, and a lot of people have talked about this is that people would rub my belly, you know, which was, you know, a big belly is a thing of, you know, otherness or, you know, has been for many years as a thing that you shouldn't have.

And then I got so much confidence, like I owned being big. And then obviously after I had the child, the fat was still there. And so it was a real interesting shift of. about like, you know, my, my, you know, boobs got a bit saggier. I got stretch marks, skin tags, hair in weird places. So it was a really big stretch in terms of learning to love my body again and appreciate it and not see the things that it wasn't, but the things that it was. And I think exercise rapidly changed that.

The fact that I could be strong or I could run or, you know, and I wasn't there for being sexy. I was there for mental health. So it was sort of tied up. up with both self-confidence and body confidence. And then when I became a scummy mummy, when we started wearing gold cat suits and I got up there without any shame and you're sort of like, well, here I am. I've had two kids.

I've got a cavernous fanny, you know, see it and all that's glory sort of thing. That gave me huge confidence because women were like, oh, thank God, there's a woman who looks like me on the stage or on the internet or and she gives no F's. about it. We're not swearing, are we? But yeah, so I think, I think there's so many factors for me feeling better about myself. It was a comedy, it was hanging out with decent mates and and not, not feeling bad about my size and shape anymore, but still sort of, yeah, wanting to enjoy my body rather than hide it. Absolutely. And that's such a thing with, that's a real power of exercise, isn't it? Kind of reframing your body's worth as what it can do for you

or what it can, all the places it can carry you, what it can lift, how far it can run, rather than thinking about what someone else thinks about the shape or the size of it or whatever, or how it looks. Yeah, exactly, exactly. So that was good. And I think, again, social media has a great, it's got great strength and purpose for changing people's ideas about that. Mike, I think you can see there's lots of amazing role models like Brianie Gordon,

who's a marathon runner and all those sorts of stuff and a great, mental health and exercise champion. So I think those sort of, yeah, she's brilliant. Yeah, there's a great, there's, yeah, a brilliant community, a brilliant community of people. And when we're talking about those other kind of self-care things that you, self-care and things that you do, you guys are obviously, you've got such a brilliant outlook on, I don't know, as you say, showing up as you are and being your own, and being your own person and presenting, as you will, as you said, in a gold cat suit on stage, I need to go and look at those pictures.

That sounds incredible. what's your guy's approach to grooming and do you have any other habits that help you, that help you feel great and kind of show up as kind of fully and unapologetically as you both do? I quite like a red lipstick. I think, you know, if you're having a bit of a sort of, you know, low day or just low energy day, as cliche it isn't possibly not very feminist, sometimes just putting a bit of slap on, just lifts me up a bit and makes me feel like, yeah, all right, you know. And in fact, my son,

my nine-year-old said to me the other week, he was like, why are you putting makeup on? We're not going anywhere. And I was like, well, I don't know. Just, just, just, why are you putting socks on? Just fancy it, don't know. Just giving it a go. We all, we're all like a sock, don't we, Helen? Oh, yeah, I do.

Just the one sometimes. A well-placed sock. I think that's been such a thing with, in lockdown, the whole makeup thing. I don't think people quite realise how much it gave them, or even just the joy of self-presentation. because you feel like you're forced to do it every day or like to go into an office. And then I don't know about you, but I found after a month of sitting in three-day-old leggings

and a messy top not scrape back and you're like, I feel rubbish. Yeah. And even when my children were babies, I still did make up every day. And not in any way because I thought, I thought without it, I'm some sort of hideous creature

who must hide away or because it makes me sexy or anything like that. But for me, it's a ritual, it's a habit. It's like brushing your teeth every morning or, yeah, or putting clean pants on. It's just something I do every day that makes me feel right. The day has started.

I've done that bit of the routine and off we go now, the day has commenced. And I feel like in lockdown, that has been very, that's something I've kind of clung onto a bit. That's been very helpful because otherwise the days can kind of blur into one and you feel a bit foggy and sort of rudderless. So, yeah, I've found that helpful. Now things are opening up, which is super exciting. And we have a summer that hopefully is going to look like

and somewhat of a normal summer. Helen, what are you most looking forward to about this summer? Well, I'm a single lady, so I'm very much looking forward to getting out and dating properly. Probably, she says, I want to touch people. Yes, and I want them to touch me. So, yeah, so I think what's really nice is that, like, I have had a year of being single and I had a few dates when I was allowed, but now, I can properly get out and do that. But I, you know, obviously I want to see you all my mates and have some freedom. But, yeah. And, you know, part of that is looking good and feeling good about myself. That's about self-confidence as a single woman, not as a mother, not as anything else. So, you know, obviously that, you know, involves lots of things. That includes hair, makeup and, you know,

maybe trimming, maybe trimming the bush occasionally, maybe making sure that my underarms aren't sprouting a lot of hair. And that, you know, and that's obviously my choice. And I don't, I don't do the full, absolute full hair removal. But I do like, I do like a neat edge, Rachine. Yeah. I like a neat edge. And you're achieving these neat edges with the Phillips Lumea at home IPL device, right? I am. I'm very delighted to have this because, you know, obviously I'm a busy working mum, but I'm also a single mum. So I have two days a week where I'm home. alone. So that's my sort of self-care time. So that's when I can do lovely things like have a bath, but use this lovely at-home IPL device. And, you know, I know other friends who've had similar

treatments and they've had to go to cell-ons and, you know, I can do this within my own schedule, which I just think is wonderful for every, because everyone's busy, aren't they? They're all busy. And, you know, I can sit down, make myself a cup of tea and then, you know, sort out my bikini line. I mean, what's not to like, Rachine, really? I really like it. I really like it. And, you know, and it's really gentle and it's effective. And, you know, I can concentrate on other things now, not just sorting out my bush every few days. It's good. Less shaving, more dating. Like it. Absolutely. Absolutely. I want to get onto the dating. I don't want to have times just, you know, always buying razors again. And I think that's the other thing. I think it's a good sort of eco thing is that you've got one device. And then, you know, you'll be smooth.

there's a seal in about six months. How'd you go? But yeah, it's fantastic and such a time saver. And time saver and also a lack of shaving rash. I don't. No one wants a scratchy bit. No one wants a scratchy bit. Oh, I'm sure there's some corner of the internet, Helen, where someone's into it. Someone's into everything, aren't they?

They are, Ellie. I once dated, you know, had a date. I was naked with a man. and he had shaved his chest, but it was like in a few days growth in. And it was like, it was like having a cuddle with a brillo pan. And I thought, either have a hairy chest or go like full wax. But don't just shake.

He'd shave the whole thing. It was all scratchy. No. He needs a lemaya. That's the thing. Nice, smooth and soft regrowth. So thank you very much, Helen, for sharing that. Ellie, what are your plans?

What are your plans for summer? Oh, well, we've optimistically booked a holiday. just down in Kent. We're in London. So we've put a holiday down in Kent. That's as far as we're willing to take the risk. So who knows, perhaps that will come up. But even that, to be honest, I'm a bit like,

what's that going to be like there? We've been sat in a house for about a year. We're just going to go and sit in another house with like less access to Netflix. So I don't know. I'm starting to regret the decision already. But now I'm sure I'm sure it'll be fine. But yeah, I'm looking forward to getting back on tour. And hopefully, fingers crossed, we'll be doing the main stage.

at Camp Bestival this year, which is always a highlight in our calendar. So we're hoping that that goes ahead and that we can be, you know, we can be near Mr. Tumble, which is our life goal. That's Dorset, isn't it, Camp Festival? Yes, Dan Loll with, yeah. So beautiful. Oh, well, fingers crossed. Fingers crossed.

And yeah, and what, what, before we go, what advice do you have for other moms who are looking to celebrate themselves and get back in touch with who. they are after having children. I think definitely do do those things. Those things are great, but also don't put too much pressure on yourself to do those things. You know, I think we, luckily we've advanced where we've moved away a bit from the whole bounce back body thing, but I'm a little bit worried we've sort of just moved into this area of bounce back mentally so that by the time the baby's six months old, we all have to have a side hustle, or we have to be taking them to baby yoga three times a day, or we have to be, you know, we have to be mentally,

doing great and everything's fine. And those things can be very hard. I mean, I had my, my babies didn't sleep. That was my thing. So when you're being woken up every hour all night, you know, it's, it's difficult to do some meditation the next day. You might not feel like it. So I just think, take it easy on yourself. Don't feel the pressure either way. And know that it will end. Things will get better and you'll be all right and you won't be this tired and you won't feel like. this forever. Yeah, fabulous advice. Yeah, I think, I think that the, not the worst thing, but just don't compare yourself to others. I think it's really easy to think, oh, she's got it all, she's got it all going on. You don't know someone said, don't compare your inside to someone

else's outside. So the way people project themselves on social media or the what, or what stories they choose to tell you may not be the full picture. And I think that that can be really like, oh God, they've got it all going on. You know, they're doing a juice cleanse, they're doing all this sort of thing. And I think you just don't know what state people are in. And it is ebb and flow. Like you do have days where you think God, everything's great and I'm nailing it. And the next day you feel flat.

So it's not, it's, and your mental health and your physical health and confidence, it's not linear. It's not only, you don't just get better and better and better. And I think that's really important as well. And just to kind of go, you know what, some days I'm going to feel sad. Or some days I don't want to see friends. and that's all right. Like you don't have to be the same version or feel like you have to be the happy Helen

or the, you know, a particular version of yourself for your friends. I mean, I'm the sarcastic Ellie pretty much 100%, to be honest, but I know what you mean. Yeah. Yeah, and the trick for me has been to recognise that and to recognise on the bad days that they are just bad days. And do you know what? Sometimes they go on for weeks.

But if you can hang on to the idea that things will, change because children change and life changes and stuff happens. If you can just hang on in there, then you'd be all right. I think that's a pretty great place to end. Ellie Gibson and Helen Thorn, aka the Scummy Mummies, thank you so much for coming on the podcast and everyone do go listen to their podcast. All our podcasts are on iTunes, Spotify, or you can just go to Scummy Mummies.com. And also there, you'll find tickets for our live show, assuming it is happening this year. And we've got a shop and we've got, you know, we've got Instagram at Scummy Mummies, all the things. really. Thank you so much for coming on. Bye. Bye. Thanks, Rachine. You've been listening to Helen

Thorn and Ellie Gibson of comedy duo The Scummy Mummies on Mission Confidence, a special edition of the Going for Girl podcast sponsored by Phillips and designed to help you on your body confidence journey. This podcast has been created as part of our Project Body Love initiative and if you've enjoyed it, make sure you register for the Project Body Love event that's running between the 15th and 16th of May. All you need to do is click the link in the show notes. Mission Confidence will be back next week. Tune in then.