Just As Well, The Women's Health Podcast - Nutritious Cooking On a Budget with Dr Rupy Aujla

Episode Date: June 10, 2020

Have recent events made you a little more cautious and deliberate with your spending? We hear you. That’s why this week, in response to a flurry of your messages, we’re talking tips and strategies for putting together super-nutritious meals when you're on a budget. Roisín is joined by Dr Rupy Aujla, a medical doctor whose passion for nutrition is such that he’s created courses for top UK universities that educate doctors-in-training about the protective powers of different foods - and how they can bring healthy eating advice into their consulting rooms. He's also author of The Doctor’s Kitchen cookbooks, hosts a podcast series with the same name and is an unabashed food lover. Here, Dr Aujla makes a convincing case for why, if you want to hit all your nutritional targets (everything from getting ample fibre and protein to ensuring dietary diversity), while watching your finances, it's essential to find your groove with healthy cooking. Let's get stuck in. Join Dr Rupy Aujla on Instagram: @doctors_kitchen Join Roisín Dervish-O'Kane on Instagram: @roisin.dervishokane Join Women's Health on Instagram: @womenshealthuk Topics: Dr Rupy's three core principles of healthy eating Why eating well and eating frugally go hand in hand 15 affordable ingredients all healthy cooks need in their kitchen The healthiest herbs and spices to experiment with How to stop beans and lentils making you so bloated Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Now streaming on Paramount Plus is the epic return of Mayor of Kingstown. Warden? You know who I am. Starring Academy Award nominee Jeremy Renner. I swear in these walls. Emmy Award winner Edie Falco. You're an ex-con who ran this place for years. And now, now you can't do that. And BAFTA Award winner Lenny James.

You're about to have a plague of outsiders descend on your town. Let me tell you this. It's going to be consequences. Mayor of Kingstown, new season now streaming on Paramount Plus. You know what's better than the one big thing? Two big things. Exactly. The new iPhone 17 Pro on TELUS's five-year rate plan price lock.

Yep, it's the most powerful iPhone ever, plus more peace of mind with your bill over five years. This is big. Get the new iPhone 17 Pro at tellus.com slash iPhone 17 Pro on select plans. Conditions and exclusions apply. Hello, you're listening to Going for Goal, the weekly Women's Health podcast. My name's Rocheen. editor on women's health and this is your weekly chance to plug in, be inspired and get expert advice on how to achieve the health and wellness goals that matter most to you. Before we get

stuck in, how are we all doing out there this week? The news cycle has been intense to say the least so I hope you've all been able to take care of yourselves physically, mentally, emotionally and that you're all staying safe, whatever that looks like for you right now. On today's episode, we are talking about healthy cooking on a budget as it's something that loads of you have got in touch to say you'd love us to do an episode on. So, Rachel, Saffron, Roe, Polly and IG users, Sassika and At the Most Pink Lady, this one is for you. My guest is Dr. Rupi Orgila, a medical doctor and founder of culinary medicine, which is a UK non-profit organisation that basically teaches doctors the fundamental principles of nutrition and how they can

apply them to their patients. As he kind of goes into, doctors aren't really talked about nutrition in medical school. He's also a best-selling author of the Doctor's Kitchen Cookbook series. He hosts a podcast of the same name and he's one of the most passionate advocates out there for the health and happiness benefits of falling in love with the food and really getting confident in the kitchen. Dr. Rupi joined me last week with his rather vocal cavapoo puppy nutmeg to discuss how cooking was so vital for really nailing your nutrition when you're on a budget, the kitchen essentials, all healthy cooks need, and how to prepare those mega healthy and mega cheap, but also rather gas-promoting beans and pulses to avoid bloating,

bloating, wind and all the rest. If you know, you know, and if you don't, you're going to hear all about it soon. This is a super positive conversation about embracing the joy that comes from experimenting in the kitchen and really falling in love with food. I hope you find it useful. Dr. Rufi, Ordula, welcome to going from full. How are you doing today? I'm good, I'm good. Thank you very much for having me. Thank you so much for coming on the show. We are talking this week all about how to kind of really nail nutrition on a budget, which is of real concern for people at the moment where I think COVID-19 lockdown,

there has been some real reassessment going on. And obviously we don't quite know the full economic fallout of things yet, but people are tightening their purse strings and thinking, right, where can I save? Where have I been frittering money? And then, of course, how do I protect my health whilst using this slightly truncated budget? But before we get into all that, I'm sure quite a lot of our listeners will be familiar with you through your books, through your podcast, The Doctor's Kitchen. Can you tell me a little bit about the philosophy with which you approach health and nutrition

and how you got to that point, how it came to be formed? Yeah, I mean, it's a great place to start. It's an odd time, but I think it's definitely a time of opportunity right now to be a bit more experimental with the kitchen. But my sort of journey started when I qualified as a junior doctor 11 years ago, and I got ill. Long story short, I had atrial fibrillation. It's a cardiac condition where your heart beats exceptionally fast,

and in my case irregularly, that led me down the path of trying to see multiple different cardiologists, get lots of different people's opinions. And I was definitely going to have something called an ablation, which is where you put a guide wire into the heart and you burn an area of misfiring cells, essentially. And what happened is my mum, who is not medically qualified, basically said, you know, you need to look at your diet and your lifestyle. And I thought, you know, as a conventionally trained doctor, that was kind of like a bit woo-woo, but left field. It was never really taught nutrition at medical school.

So really to appease her, I said to my cardiologist, is it okay if I try a few things in anticipation of me having this procedure? And they said, yes, you know, take the medications, whatever. And so that led me down a deep dive of, you know, learning about nutrition myself. I was already a really good cook or not really good cook. I was an amateur cook. I would say I still regard myself as an amateur cook as well. And I just sort of applied what I knew about flavor combinations, the cultural variety of food to healthy eating.

So out went cereals in the morning and the soggy sandwiches at the hospital canteen. In came lots of different colors, variety, had a plant-focused diet. And I combined that with a whole bunch of other lifestyle changes. So meditation, sleep hygiene when I wasn't doing night shifts. And I overcame my own medical condition. And so that really inspired me to do an even deeper dive into nutrition and have more honest open conversations with patients. And that led to a huge amount of interest.

And I started training as a general practitioner back in 2011. And I became known in my practice as the doctor that would give nutrition advice to patients. And loads of patients got wind of that. And so I thought, how am I going to deal with this? Because my clinic times again later or later. I'm giving recipes out at the left-right centre. People are asking me about arthritis, type of diabetes, high blood pressure, or just general health.

And that's where the idea of the doctor's kitchen was born, a platform where I could educate people, talk about ingredients, the clinical research behind them, and inspire people to eat their weather health. And I guess if I could distill the principles of health, of healthy eating, ones that I talk about in both of my books and haven't changed. It's eating colourful, quality fats, lots of fibre, plant focused and eating whole as well. Eating quality fats are things like whole fats, nuts and seeds.

Eating colourful means variety on your plates. You're getting a good suite of different micronutrients and phytonutrients. The thousands of plant chemicals that you find that offer protective. protective values to the human host. Fiber, something that's hugely lacking in our diet. We have less than the recommended 30 grams, but actually we should be eating way more than 30 grams eventually, not to convince people to transition quickly. If you're used to a low-fiber diet and suddenly go to a high-fiber diet, everyone else will know about it and you will know about it as well. and eating whole, which is basically along the spectrum of food,

we have whole food in its raw, uncooked form, and then you have processed food of which sugar is a very good example, something that's been hugely, huge and huge and refined. And we really want to move us along the spectrum towards the hole. And finally, plant focus, and this is probably where there is as much fuel, as you can imagine across social media and across scientific disciplines because it crosses into ideology

and it has a whole bunch of other ramifications with regard to the environment as well as ethics but certainly from what I've seen a plant-focused diet and to put that in context probably around 85, 90%

plant-based and I'll have oilish and some meat products in my diet is one I generally everything but you Yeah, like a plant-focused diet, certainly the one that we would all benefit from. This week we're looking at the goal of managing to eat well on a budget.

When we think about, I think particularly when we think about plant-based or what do you call it? I call it plant-focused. So you have plant-focused and then I've had plant-forward. So that's what I was getting confusing. So plant-focused, plant-forward, plant-based diets. and often people can get the impression that this is quite an expensive way to eat. I understand that concern massively, but it's a bit of a myth. Shop economically, i.e. go for the raw uncooked lentils, soak them and then cook them,

and then you have a huge batch which can freeze or you can put in, you can, you know, using so many different recipes versus, you know, the ones that you buy pre-cooked or whatever. or if you just go for that, you know, option that's packaged food or convenience food. It's actually going to cost you a lot more in the long run to your health, let alone to your pocket. So these are the things that I try and get people to think about, and it kind of comes out in the books. In fact, one of the chapters I wrote in my first book was health is not a privilege. And actually, if you follow the principles of the recipes, it's no more expensive than the household can afford.

So I think we need to kind of reframe our thinking about, okay, what is a healthy meal and how much does that actually cost? And when you break it down, it's not as expensive as people think. But the time is perhaps the biggest expense. Right now, I think we will have a lot more time to be experimental. And I think that's where, to your point earlier, when you were talking about this actually weirdly being a bit of an opportunity. I think, so for many people that I've spoken to,

many people getting in touch with us, they are realising that so much of their money would go on convenience food, even if it's not particularly unhealthy convenience food. And it is that busyness and that rushing and that darting around everywhere. Yeah, now we are realizing that it's been this busyness, which has been costing us so much. So that now actually, now is the time to maybe kind of, of go back to basics a little bit. I love what you were saying there about buying, like buying

the big bag of lentils, buy the big bag of rice, like buy the stuff which isn't pre-cooked. Yeah. And that's a really great way for saving money on like legumes and beans and whole grains, which as we were saying before, really important for house. Do you have any other kind of great tips that people could take away? My parents always tell me the story about how when my dad came to this country. My mom kind of had a mix growing up. So she was born in India, but then grew up in London and had most of our education here, but she had a mixed education. She was very back and forth between India. And when they were setting up my dad's business, they lived on literally something like five pounds a week between them. And they would buy like a big bag of brown rice at the

start the week and then buy another bag of two different types of lentils. And then they would also like every now and then have like frozen peas or like some fresh spinach or like some fresh items that they'll buy in bulk. And honestly, that's always stuck with me because they were ticking off so many things in terms of the principles of healthy eating that I have now learned a lot more about by doing my master's in nutrition. and also the deep dive of the literature that I looked in over the last couple of years. But they also made it super, super economical.

And I have those sort of ingrained habits in me anyway. Like, for example, I'll get like a big bag of brown rice. I'll soak it for like 10 minutes or so, wash the rice, put it on, and just forget about it for about 30 minutes. And then I would allow that to cool. And then I can freeze that. I can literally put it into little bags that I read. use, I put it in the freezer and I freeze it and that way I've got a ready, easy to use carbohydrate whenever I'm making a meal. And the other thing that I think it's not really like

an economical tip, but I think it's a way of using ingredients to heighten the flavor and sort of the luxuriousness of food. It's using those condiments. So things like capers, black olives in their whole form. Um, even. Even the caper berries, I think they're called the little ones with the stalk. Oh, yeah. Yeah, but absolutely delicious. Even like the red peppers that you find in brine, if you take a little bit of that and then you add it to fresh vegetables that you can buy,

you know, that's actually like a really flavorful way. And you don't have to spend that much money on like, you know, get all these fancy spices and combining them. And the other thing I say was some of the most nutrient-dense ingredients are the cheapest on the shelf. And the ones that come to mind are red and white cabbage, super cheap, absolutely indestructible. Like, they'll last in my fridge for whatever a week. The other ones that I think are super economical and very high value in terms of the nutrition are the different types of cabbages. So, soy cabbage, pointed cabbage, Chinese cabbage,

again, super cheap, and they do last, and they're very good in terms of nutritional value. And, yeah, I think those are my go-to. So I would suggest people, like, become a lot more experimental with the different types of veggies. And you don't necessarily have to go for the fashionable veggies. It's really about getting complexity into your diet and variety. What did your ancestors really do all day? Beyond names, what were their lives like? With Ancestry's global historical records,

you can discover incredible stories about how your ancestors lived and worked. And for a limited time, you can explore select occupation records for free. Imagine finding your great-grandfather's RCP records or discovering your ancestors' name in the UK and Ireland Nursing Register. Don't miss out.

Free access ends August 24th. Visit Ancestry.ca for more details. Terms apply. On the shopping point as well, what are some of the fundamentals we talked there about like rice legumes certain veggies to buy what are some of the fundamentals for a well-stocked kitchen sorry my my little dog is crying because I'm not giving her attention oh she is so cute for those you that can't see it's a very small almost like butterscotch beige little fluffball who's very lovely she's 10 weeks old

and she's very needy and unfortunately even if she's that right next to me, she'll still whimper and want attention. So yeah, so it's a really good question. I think what's really important if you can is to find a suite of different spices that you enjoy the taste of and you know how to use in terms of flavor for foods. For me, I think that the key five are fen, and I always use the seeds because when you have the seeds, It locks up a lot of the nutrition. You can temper them in a dry pan. It releases those essential oils.

And honestly, you get a lot more bang for your buck with a teaspoon of fennel seeds versus a teaspoon of ground fennel. The flavour is so much more in the fennel seeds. And you can grind them if the recipe can cause for something that's ground. So I always go for the seeds. So that's number one. Fenel seeds, cumin seeds, mustard seeds. Red chili flakes is kind of like a given. and I always go for turmeric, but you can use paprika if you don't like turmeric either.

Using this suite of those five different spices, you can actually create loads of different foods. It doesn't all need to be Indian, doesn't all need to be Asian or anything like that. You can actually do loads of different things with it. It can be Malistan, it can be French, it can be all those different things. So I always have at least those five, I mean, my spice cupboard is out of control. I've got so many different blends and different. brands and all this kind of stuff. So I've got loads, loads

like that. So spices is key and they'll last as well, particularly if you buy them in bulk which you can if you go to certain markets, but even the Asian stores, the Turkish stores, the other ethnic stores, you know, they buy them in but so definitely

go explore those because you'll get like absolute bargains from them rather than going to the major supermarkets, nothing against them. The other thing is getting your sort of the family of vegetables like the alien family, you want your onions, your garlic and all those different types. As long as you don't have the type of IBS that gives you issues with your digestive system by having phobot foods, these are incredible inclusions into your diet. So I always

have garlic, ginger and some sort of herbaceous plants. My go-to-three herbaceous plants, Basel, always. Parsley or coriander. I'm a coriander lover. Not everyone is. I get that. Parsial or coriander. And Wildcard, Dill.

Dill is one of those underutilized ingredients that goes in Middle Eastern cooking, Indian cooking, as well as French cooking, modern European and British cooking as well. And if you can add one, it's a little bit pricey. But Tarragon, oh, Tarragon's just like phenomenal. I use it all the time but like, yeah, Tarragon's not for everyone. It's a little bit bougie, but I do like Tarragans.

Those are like the kind of like the flavor ingredients, but they do add a lot of nutritional value and a lot more complexity to your meals as well. And then it goes to kind of what we were talking about with regard to the cheaper sort of nutrient dense vegetables. Yeah. So there will be like the greens, the red cabbages, the colorful foods and the seasonal foods as well. The seasonal foods will be. a lot more economical too because they'll be in bulk.

So right now we have asparagus, we have broad beans, we'll be coming into the season for the summer vegetables and a whole bunch of others. So my dog's crying in the corner. And if you can hear her, I don't know if you can hear it squeaking, but yeah, she's making a lot of noise. The most heartbreaking sound. And what about then, what about protein?

Because I think protein then is something that people on a plant-focused, plant-forward diet is something that people worry about getting enough of and is something that people can feel it's quite expensive, especially if people are used to eating meat and they're trying to cut down and then suddenly you're trying to hit the same quota with salmon, say, rather than chicken, you're going,

oh, wow, this is a lot more expensive. What are some suggestions for getting good healthy proteins? Let's say, let's go from vegan sources right through to meat sources. Yeah, it's a really good point. So the vegan sources are sort of the ones that we spoke about. So things like peas, legumes, beans. Kind of, there's a whole section of my first book where I basically taught people how to prep whole raw beans from scratch. So azuki beans, chickpeas, even the mong lentils and split peas as well.

like split green pea, split yellow pea. People just don't know how to use those. And we're really lucky because in England in particular, we have like a whole suite of ancient pulses that we don't even use. Things like Father. We can even grow quinoa as well in the UK. So these are things that we kind of need to reestablish a relationship with. And I challenge anyone listening to this.

It's just to go to your ethnic supermarket or your market or your supermarket, whatever. and grab just one of those that you perhaps used before, whether it's been in the curry or whether it's been any sort of casserole, and look up how to properly soak it and prepare it and try it, just one, because it always starts with one. You don't want to get like a whole bunch, and then all of a sudden you've got like this cupboard full of pulses, you don't know how to use.

So those are definitely the ones that I would suggest. When you actually learn to soak these things properly, often that can end up removing quite a lot of the gastric issues. Is that right that people tend to have? Yes, yeah. How does that work? Yeah, so unfortunately there's like some myths, I guess, that propagated by certain people who have written books

or why no one should eat nightshades or, you know, lecting-containing foods or pulses and that kind of stuff because they're into the gut. What happens is you have this. suite of nutrients called anti-nutrients. And it's quite an unfortunate name because, you know, it kind of gives this impression, oh my God, I don't want these anti-nutrients. They're going to take the nutrients away from me. Whereas they can actually have some benefits in the correct amounts. It's this whole paradoxical subject of plant homesis. And to put it simply, it's like a little

bit of bad, does you some good. To put it into context, it's kind of like, you know, when you go to exercise, your exercise is inherently an inflammatory process. You're shearing muscles, you're causing damage, you're causing the reaction from your body that goes to repair inflammation. But it's that reparation of inflammation, that repairment, that actually leads to greater resilience and actually overall benefits to you, your health and longevity, your cardiovascular system, etc. So people need to kind of get that into the heads. It's like a little bit about actually to use some good.

Same thing with turmeric. Turmeric is labelled as anti-inflammatory. It's actually a mild pro-inflammatory that causes a reaction from your body that leads to an overall anti-inflammatory impact. Ah, interesting. So it's sort of like that with legumes and pulses. So they have phytates and lectins that, yeah, if you eat them raw, don't ever do that. I mean, it could be fatal.

But if you soak them properly, you cook them, the level of these antinutrients goes down to such a level that they actually provide benefits to you and your bodily system, your gastric system, etc. And they're going to be far less irritant to you. Some people still have issues with it. And I would encourage people with those issues to work with the practitioner to try and figure out what the irritants are, you know, the doses that. elicits responses and perhaps even sometimes excluding them for a small amount of time and then gradually reintroducing that later date or maybe finding alternative sources that might better suit them as well. Yeah, they've got a branding problem. It's like PR issue there. They need a they need a new strategy. Okay, cool. So those were vegan sources. Now what about

what about any great veggie sources of protein? I think eggs are a great addition and I always go for the free range whole eggs rather than just the egg white which was again like another trend back in the day I know I know especially like you know I'm not affiliated with them but Berford Browns are absolutely incredible they've got like a beautiful yoke and that really is testament to the quality

and how well kept the chickens are because they're allowed to roam on like green pastures and that kind of stuff so I think you know it's worth spending a little bit more on your animal products for ethical and environmental reasons, but also from the nutrient value as well. Yeah. Yeah, it's very important to get that.

And there is evidence to suggest that, you know, the chickens that are pasture raised have better levels of long-chain omega-3 fats and nutrients. You can tell from the colour as well. Yeah, it's nothing worse. And if you see a very cheap kind of anemic-looking yoke and you can kind of guess that probably wasn't from the happiest chicken. Yeah. When it comes to things like cheeses and dairy products,

I'm kind of ambivalent about that being a source of protein that I'd want everyone to have in their diet daily. Certainly there's some evidence that dairy containing foods may be beneficial in terms of the carbon chain length when it comes to saturated fats. However, you know, I've just seen anecdotally a lot of people have issues with dairy if they have it daily in the diet in adulthood. Kids, loads of kids, you know, drink dairy all day and they don't have any issues. Some obviously do and that's actually a growing issue, the allergy and intolerance to things like egg and dairy and a whole bunch of other things.

But yeah, dairy in adulthood on a daily basis, I'm not too sure on. And I would encourage people to really think about that as an individual and see whether they, you know, would they enjoy it and whether they prefer to have cheese or during their diet? It's really up to them. I personally don't, but I do enjoy some cheese every now and then. Oh, man. It's one of those things, you know, I always, I use it as a garnish rather than as something that are like, oh, I get my protein from this big bit of loomy here. I'd rather get my protein sources from animal products, meats, but obviously largely plant-based sources that we discussed.

Yeah. Speaking of plant-based sources, and I know this is definitely not a whole one, but when I am trying to save money, I'm a big culprit for baiting quite a lot of my meals around veggie sausages, which are obviously highly processed. But where do you stand on these types of, vegan and veggie kind of fake meats that a lot of us go to for convenience. How healthy are they actually?

It's a really good point. So, I mean, in the interest of transparency, I will have one of those veggie or vegan sausages every now and then. In fact, I think I've used some in my recipes that are on the website because there's a spectrum, again, of like quality sausages versus poor quality sausages, as there are are in the animal product world as well. You've got some sausages that are not, they're mostly vegetarian because they've got like loads of rump in it

and sort of additives and all the rest of it. So again, it kind of comes down to the quality of the ingredients that they put in the sausages themselves. I don't really want to label one particular brand as like terrible. That's fine. But maybe that'll come out in like a women's health, I don't know, rapport on like all these different sausages you can get. What should

people be looking for then? So without going into saying any specific brand, say if I'm comparing the back of labels for veggie sausages, veggie burgers in the supermarket, what should be on that list and what should be low down that list or not on that list? Okay,

so there's two lists that you want to look at. So you want to look at the nutritional profile and look at the fibre content. So the fibre content should be really above 10, if not 15 grams per 100 grams. And the protein content as well. So you really would be looking at 8 to 9 grams per 100 grams as well of those,

if not more, if possible. And the other list you want to look at is the ingredients list. So they usually have percentages of what they've put into the products themselves. So there's one particular brand I'm thinking of. They'll have things like whole grain rice, beets. they even have things like different types of legumes in there as well. They'll have some fillers, but they're usually like made out of quite like good products. But then like, you know, if you start looking at a few ingredients,

you just don't know what they are and, you know, they can be like nitrates, there can be some e-numbers and it's okay to have one or two. But when it comes to like five, six, seven that you just don't recognise, is a general rule of thumb, I think that's something that you kind of want to avoid. There are some ingredients like polysula A-T, there are some emulsifies that can be particularly irritant to the gut lining that I tend to avoid. And this is why I kind of reserve those veggie sausages or any of those processed products that are trying to mimic me.

There's something that's a luxury item that you enjoy every now and then, rather than something that should be a staple in your diet. quite frankly, there are things that we just don't know enough about. And I would love to say and sit here and say this particular additive, 100% not, don't have it in your diet, but it's kind of like a grey area. So I take a pragmatic approach, which is I don't know, but if I don't know, it's guilty and to prove it and otherwise. And then moving on to fish, again, something I spoke about

when I think people are trying to cut down on meat and make their diets more plant-based, but also then they're having fish to get enough protein in omega-3. can seem very expensive to people. What is your advice for kind of getting maximum nutrition on minimal or sensible budget? So I would encourage people to try and go to their fishmongers if they can, take a trip out and speak to them directly because they will know, a, what's in season, what's hand caught, etc., what's sustainable, and what's going to be the most economical as well.

you can find like real good like seafood stew mixtures that have actually you know lots of different types of fish in there and that can be quite economical it's usually a white fish and hopefully it's sustainably caught as well but if you're looking at like supermarket availability canned fish like the anchovies sardines all that kind of stuff it's actually really really good for you a because they've got good levels of their long chain omega-3 fatty acids that we know it's good for brain health, it's good to reduce the risk of things like dementia, but also cardiovascular health and general inflammation levels too. So I think, you know, there are loads of ways in which you can get fish that I would add to people's diets if I could every single week.

And the way to use things like anchovies is a lot of people will think about antivis and think about the, you know, the anchovies that they had a repeat so once or that they input. They had as a kid, it was like, oh, God, what is that? But if you use it like the Italians do as a flavoring agent, it's wonderful. And you'll never guess that there's anchovies in there. So I use like a couple of fillets in oil from a can, and I'll put it into the base of a bull base or a casserole or a stew when I sweat down the onions and the garlic. And it gives an umami sort of juneassequois,

flavor to it. You can't put your finger on it, but it's salty, it seasons your alien vegetables, and it just lifts everything in the dish. It's kind of like having a stock cube on steroids. It's the only way I can really describe it. And if you have that with like a couple of,

just a couple other herbs, you put some fennel in there, maybe some mustard seeds as well, and then you add all your other vegetable ingredients, a little bit of water, put the lid on. It changes your life. honestly, it really does. And you know, you've got, like, you're using some oily fish there too. Yeah. Something that's come out of this, and I realize we're so almost up to time, or a little bit over,

but something that's come out of this is, again, just how the sheer joy that you get out of cooking. And that also cooking is, it's kind of, it's almost impossible to kind of hit this supernutrition tasty food within a budget if you're not spending some time in the kitchen. So aside from your own books, where would you, if people are looking, what cookbooks, what healthy cookbooks do you love or would you recommend people go and check out? So the kind of cookbooks I recommend and not even healthy cookbooks, because I think most people know like what they should be eating. It's about trying to get people to understand how to construct these meals for themselves. kind of like the way I did it.

So I didn't reach to a healthy cookbook. I used my principles of knowing how flavors work and applied that to what I know people should be eating. And people know that they should be having three portions of fruit and vegetables per meal time, which sounds wholly unachievable, but something I'm working going forward. Then it's really about flavor

and actually keeping themselves on straight and narrow, making sure that they can achieve this every single day. So one of the books that I recommend is Salt, Fat, Acid Heat by Samin Nusrat. She is an incredible, incredible chef. So Samin Nusrat book is great. And salt fat, acid heat is about how

when you get all those elements correct, the salt, fat, the acid heat, you create a beautifully balanced dish. And I think that is just as important because food isn't just for function, food is for flavor as well. And I think the reason, and we are evolutionary designed to respond to

flavor and it reinforces the experience for us as well. So I think that's definitely a must. And the other book, I would say, is Michael Pollan's In Defense of Food. A brilliant writer, you know, he also wrote the Omnuals, the dilemma. And the first seven words of the book, you know, eat food, mostly plants, not too much, kind of sums up everything that I've tried to do in my career thus far, which kind of, you know, it's a bit of a kick in the teeth, really. If you think about how much work I've put it in through that.

He did it in seven words. Yeah, basically did in seven words. People that mastered brevity. I know, I know. And I'm really trying to master that myself, actually, with anything else that I put out. I mean, like the TED Talk is, you know, just one more. And the next book is three to one.

And so everything is kind of like, okay, how do you simplify? How do you make healthy eating just something that we do going forward? And I think, you know, there are a lot of ways in which we can do better. And I think coming out of this pandemic period, there's going to be a lot more interest in self-care too. And it's great to see, you know, even people learning how to, even though it's not the healthiest, but people learning how to make banana bread or, you know, cakes and cookies. and that experience will stay with them. That kitchen confidence will stay with people.

So if you want to bake and experiment with like super luxurious and laborious meals, that's great because you can use that knowledge and apply it to healthy eating on a daily basis. You really can. Yeah. So much of it is, as you say, kitchen confidence, getting skilled and comfortable and excited about cooking. And then that's half the battle, right? Exactly, exactly. Okay, Roopi, that's so much in there. If there is one thing that you would like, people listening to take away, to kind of one piece of advice that will really help them hit this goal of

nailing their nutrition and falling in love with food on a budget, what would it be? So I would say it's kind of like my mantra right now to tell people, just add one more. Every meal time, can you just add one more piece of fruit, vegetable, nuts or seeds? at every meal time, you know, even if you're having fish and chips, can you add peas to that? Or if you're having a casserole or a suit, can you add like a handful of rocket or a handful of spinach? You know, when you add more complexity and variety to your diets, this is really how we make a shift in our mindset and a cumulative increase in the consumption of these fruits and vegetables, as demonstrated by the science, can have huge ramifications and benefits to our health going forward. So if there was one part of message, I would say, you know, just can you think to yourself? Can you just add one more? Just add one more. Just add one more.

Brilliant. Super simple. And I think that's something that everyone listening, self-included, can do. And check the label on the veggie sausages. Brilliant. Oh, Rupi, thank you so much for coming on going for goal. No worries. My pleasure. And thanks to all you guys for listening. I really hope you enjoyed that conversation with Dr. Rupi Orgelah. I'd urge you to go check out his books, listen to his podcast. As you can tell, he's a real font of knowledge on healthy eating, nutrition, and just the joy of food.

If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts. And remember to subscribe so you never miss an episode. And remember, this show is all about helping you achieve the goals that you want to. So get in touch and let us know what they are. And then your health goal could be the focus. of a future episode. All you need to do is message at Women's Health UK on Instagram with going for goal in big caps at the start of your message so we don't miss it. But that's all for me for this week. So until next week, take care, stay safe and I'll catch you soon. Bye.