Just As Well, The Women's Health Podcast - The Simple Hacks That Changed My Brain & Body - Davinia Taylor

Episode Date: September 30, 2025

From tabloid headlines to bestselling author and founder, Divinia Taylor shares the routines and mindset shifts that transformed her life. Seventeen years sober, she’s now passionate about making ��biohacking” simple and relatable - whether it’s focusing on better sleep, experimenting with nutrition, or finding small daily habits that bring more energy and focus. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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responsibly. Now streaming on Paramount Plus is the epic return of Mayor of Kingstown. Warden? You know who I am? Starring Academy Award nominee Jeremy Runner. I swear in these walls. Emmy Award winner Edie Falco. You're an ex-con who ran this place for years. And now, now you can't do that. And BAFTA award winner Lenny James. You're about to have a plague of outsiders descend on your town? Let me tell you this. It's got to be consequences. Mayor of Kingsdown, new season now streaming on Paramount Plus. Hi, I'm Gemma Atkinson.

And I'm Claire Sanderson, the editor-in-chief of Women's Health. We've just had a brilliant chat with the biohacking queen, Divinia Taylor. Wow. How brilliant was that? She is a ball of energy, isn't she? So she came all the way down from Lancashire to meet us as well. So I was really touched that she made that journey. And it was fascinating.

I grew up with Divinia. You know, I remember the Primrose Hill set. Are you a little bit too young to remember that? I'm a bit too young for it. Yeah, I was aware of it when I was obviously a little bit older. You know, the Jude Laws, the Sadie Frost, the Divinia Taylors, yeah. You know, she was very much in the media when I was in my late teens, etc. The original party girl.

But she ended up in rehab. She's an alcoholic and she went into quite brutal detail with us about what it's like in rehab to get over addiction. Really, really interesting stuff. And I think if anyone is struggling with addiction, this will give you hope of how you can overcome it and what's happening the other side once you get out of it. And she explained that the biological reasons behind addiction. It's not a case of just thinking someone's a weak person

because they've got this addiction. It's an illness. And she explained chemically how and why it takes place and gave us some simple biohacking tips that we can all do to make ourselves feel better. Yeah. So she is the biohacking queen, as you said.

And when you hear the phrase biohacking, you think science, complicated. But she said it's as simple as getting enough sleep, adequate sleep. Yeah, adequate sleep. You're basically hacking into your biology. Things like cold shower in the morning. She mentioned that as well, didn't she?

She's obviously got a very successful business in Willpowders, so she spoke about her products and why she does them the way she does. She's got four boys. She's just manic. And she looked fab, didn't she? She doesn't look her age at all? No, she does look fab, yeah. She's, but she said she's lost four stone, I believe.

Was it three or four stone? But she said she's lost, because it's a considerable amount of weight, by taking back control of her health and looking at the way she eats to suit her biology and her metabolism. And as you say, taking the supplements that she now creates with will powders, which is clearly a huge passion for her. She was telling us the effort that she goes to to make sure it's the most top quality, collagen in her products and the wonders of MCT oil, which I know you add to your coffee in the

morning, your MCT creamer. She tells us why we should be doing that. Yes, it's good. It's a brilliant, brilliant episode. So if you're interested in the biohacking or addiction or divinia herself, which I'm sure a lot of you are, then take a listen. So, our next guest is very, very excited. Devinia Taylor, she's a two times Sunday Times number one bestselling author, soon to be three, I'm sure, with your last book. Has it gone to number one yet? It will do. I think it's on track too. Three times, three times number one bestselling author, podcast host and founder of Will Powders, which is a hugely, hugely successful supplement brand.

And in a world of information overload, Divinia cuts through all that noise and she advocates for real solutions, for real people, to take back control of their health. She's been very open about the fact she's a recovering alcoholic, and despite all that, overhauled her physical and mental health and now wants to empower other people to do the same. Adapting a biohacking lifestyle, she's amassed more than a million followers and social media, and you host your very own podcast, Hack Your Health.

Welcome. Thank you for joining us. Thanks for having me. Thanks for having me. So I know that Gemma and I are both Will Powder's devotees. Thanks very much, we trust you me. I had your collagen this morning and the MCT. Me too, me too.

And you've gone through such a dramatic life transformation. Gemma touched upon it there. We're the Holyoke's generation. We remember you on Holyoke. Well, Gemma was on Holyoaks. Was it the same time? No, I was just before you, wasn't it? No.

But you were the original party girl, the Primrose Hill set, etc. Was there one moment in your life, which was pivotal in you becoming the Divinionion? who's sat here today? Not really, no. I mean, you know what it's like? Particularly with alcoholism, it's such a subtle foe because you're in denial about it for a long time. And particularly with mental health, because it ebbs and flows,

there's not like, right, you've got this, like you've got chicken pox. You know, there's none of that with it because there isn't like a test. You can't take a swab or a blood test. So there's, you know, there was no sort of like pivotable point in my sobriety either one day or one week or one month. I kind of like just started to feel more hopeful.

And I think that was it. But it's so subtle. And I think transformations downhill as well as uphill can be subtle. It's not like a transformation sort of thing like that, which we'd all wish for, you know. But yeah, it's been subtle for me. It's been a while. But I suppose if someone doesn't know me over the years, I'm like, oh my God, weren't you like in trouble? That was like 17 years ago when I gave up alcohol.

But then, weirdly, I had another battle, which I think is a lot more common. which is kind of food addiction, not just any food, but like, you know, refined carbohydrates, grains, even granola. I just like, I could never get satisfaction from it. And I was piling on the weight. So the thing with alcohol is it's glaringly obvious when someone's drunk, right? When someone's got a problem with alcohol, that's the blessing of it. You are intoxicated.

But when you're talking about carbs in particular, because it's pushed on us as a health food, you know, whole grains and everything, have it at least seen? six, seven times a day, you don't realize that what you're having could be actually detrimental and it could be slowing your mental capacity to think down and making you sluggish and then tripping you into depression. And nobody really talks about it. So for me, my transformation really happened, not just after the alcohol, but when I started switching my diet around to have a more protein fat-based diet, which goes against everything that the NHS has told us. All of us, we've all been told to eat low fat for decades, decades.

Even my mum used to have, like, vitalite and stuff. So, yeah, I was like, oh, God, I'm going to have a heart attack, but clearly I haven't. We just spoke to a doctor who used to, well, she's a dietitian. Now, she used to work in the NHS, and she said the reason she left and did her own research was because she went into the NHS to learn about food and stuff for health. And she said there just wasn't anything there. So that's why she's come away and done it herself. And she was saying, wasn't she, about how these.

these fad diets are all over the place. But if you just go back to basics, it's the best way to be. When people say, well, what do I eat? It's all confusing. I'm like, right, we'd just think, what would your great-grandmother have recognised as food? Butter, beef, eggs.

It's not very sexy, you know, but ultimately vegetables, root veg, you know, that's kind of what it is. It's meat and two veg, really. And like a load of dairy, I get on really well with dairy. Some people don't, but I do. I'm lucky to have dairy in my artillery.

because it's got, you know, yogurt and cheese and butter. It's really satisfying stuff. I think cheese actually, it's a bit of a neuromodulator. It can actually make you feel chilled as well. It's a bit of an opioid. I love a bit of cheese. I love a bit of cheeseboard at night watching the telly. What?

In bed? I know. I know it's disgusting, but that's my safe space. You've mentioned as well with a dopamine deficit. Yeah. Some people have. Do you think that's why some people reach for certain foods or for alcohol or why some were addicted to exercise and stuff.

Tell us about what you mean. Okay, so, because I've been trying to figure out why I was an alcoholic. Because often when you think about an alcoholic, some of the traumatic happened to them in the childhood. They've been abused, neglected, raped, whatever. Now, I don't have any of that at all in my history. I had really loving parents, great school life, loved my friends.

It wasn't really bullied, the usual stuff. I mean, I got dumped by a few lads, but, you know, nothing major. Why I was like, I was blaming myself saying, why are you an alcoholic? What the hell is wrong with you? It made me feel so much better. And not to the point where I was blocking out a memory of trauma or anything like that. It was, it gave me energy. And since I've been on this journey, and it's only in the past few years, I've discovered

a guy called Chris Palmer. He's PhD at Harvard. And he has noted that the energy molecule produced on consumption of alcohol is called acetate. and my brain really lights up with that. So if I wanted to pay a household bill, me with absolutely no dopamine naturally, very low dopamine, which is your motivator hormone, to do something that's boring,

I am in a natural deficit of it. If I have a glass of wine, all of a sudden, that becomes, yeah, no problem, I can do that, great, great. And so I was leaning into the wrong energy molecule. So I put that alcohol down, and that's when I pick up glucose, another energy molecule. But I'm over-consuming that, and it doesn't have the same uplifting effect as acetate.

So what do I do then? I'm flatline on acetate because I can't have it because it's alcohol, of course, and I'll end up drunk. I can't have all these carbs because I'm piling on the way. I'm feeling sluggish. I've got insulin resistance in my brain and never mind the rest of my body. So enter ketones, which is an energy fuel that is made from consuming fats or having a low carb diet. The liver naturally makes it. And wallop, I got my brain function back. So I think people who are ADHD often are low on dopamine, just they're born that way. And not because it's anything that's gone wrong in the blueprint. You need those people naturally in a tribe to go and risk take, to seek out a new hunting ground, to look beyond that mountain, to look beyond the waterfall, to go and hunt something

that's quite dangerous. You need those people to do that. They're your exercises. They're your CEOs. They're your gamblers. They're those people. They're not everyone in the population, but the population's always got those people, right?

And I feel like I'm one of those. The trouble is for me, I found acetate alcohol, before I found ketones. Because obviously I was raised on grains. Because, you know, that's what we were told to have, corn flakes, wheatobics, whatever it was, a treat, you know, you have a Kit Kat. I didn't have ketones in my brain. You're born in ketosis, and then of course you become a toddler. Whoop, you've got a load of glucose down you.

And you don't even get organ meats as a child either. It's very strange that we put them on rice cakes. It's very odd sort of changing our evolutionary thinking. So, yeah, basically, I just think I was living in an evolutionary mismatch, and my brain discovered Alcon and said, I'll have a bit of that. And then once that had ran out, that option ran out, it went into glucose. and finally I found ketones is actually neuroprotective

and doesn't cause me any damage whatsoever that's a long way around it but yeah there you go it's so interesting because you assume you know one of my family members is an alcoholic he has been all his life and you assume it's a weakness why can you not just stop but if someone

told me why can you just stop having sugar I like something sweet after my tea I like a bit of dark chocolate if someone said to me me never have sugar again from today. I don't know if I could just stop. Well actually so Chris Palmer who's who I mentioned in Harvard he's doing research on people coming off alcohol in rehab centres and putting them on exogenous ketones which is like a drink taste of rank. It's not it's still a novel food here in the UK and Europe but you can buy it in America which I cannot wait for it

of work over here because I think every rehab facility should have that. And also it's being used for, you know, pulling people off metformin and, you know, basically bringing down that addiction to glucose that we all have by providing the brain with a different energy source. I mean, if your brain is screening out for energy, it's in panic. That's why it's making your family member reach for a drink because that's all it knows because it's scared of dying. The brain is the most important organ in the body. It's the most fuel-intensive organ in the body. it's just been starved of a nutrient. I reckon the UK are about five years

behind America with this, but we always take our time to catch up with those Americans. Like I'm all over, they are always pushing the boundaries and, you know, that's what I'm hoping soon, the word ketone will just be used for, in energy drinks, in

you know, just after after dinner maybe. You know, you're put, because your blood sugar's dipped because you're digesting, that's why you want the glucose to bring you back up again. That's all that is. It's a bit like a bit of insulin resistance that's all. Of course you are snacky-snacky. I mean we all do it, we all do it. But no it's really interesting. So that research is coming out there and people are relapsing less. They need less diazepans as well when they have ketones in their diet and they

switch to a ketogenic diet when they're coming off alcohol. It's all about fuel and energy and having access to it, not about willpower. You're undernourished in your brain. That's why you keep relapsing. And of course if there's trauma there, we can work with that psychiatrist there, but ultimately you can't get that energy of that molecule of hope if your brain is in survival mode. It's just starving. It's not going to generate hope and optimism and get you past the first step. So you can work through A, your trauma. Or B, not your trauma. Just get on with your day that doesn't need alcohol to pay a bloody bill. It could be that simple. You've mentioned you've cut out carbs. Yeah. Is this refined carbs? Yeah. Yeah. So you've cut out the biscuits and the bread, but you're still eating. Yeah. So I have, I have, I have. I.

sort of time my carbs because carbs are really handy. I'm not demonising carbs because they make you feel quite cozy. What they do is they help you increase serotonin. That's your cozy hormone, your safety hormone, which then flips very quickly, particularly at nighttime, into melatonin, your darkness hormone, your sleep hormone. So I have my carbs at night. Throughout the day, I'm fueled through fat and I'm fueled through protein. But at night, which keeps my adrenaline up, nor adrenaline, my brain energy up, up, up, so I'm sharper. I'm not looking for snacks. I'm max, but at night time we'll have like a roast dinner and I will have, I will have like roast potatoes. I will have like sourdough because it's probably better because it's been fermented.

So the glucose molecule is broken down a bit so you don't get as bloated or inflamed. But that is when you hit your carb coma. So that's when I go really gormless and sleepy and, you know, if I have a bath, before you know it, I'm ready for bed, big time. I do not want to be having a sandwich at lunchtime. So the rest of the afternoon I'm battling the carbcomer. What is the point of that? It just doesn't make sense. that we have all these snacks. I mean, what you need to understand is these, like, three meals a day was brought about by the Industrial Revolution to make sure a workforce could be controlled.

So that's only like the 17, about 1730s or something the Industrial Revolution was. And you'll like this because you're Northern. I suppose you are as well. But the reason why lunch is called dinner up north. Yeah, breakfast, dinner and tea. Yeah, exactly. is because the main meal used to be at night time for the well-to-do people, and that was always called dinner.

But instead, when they opened up all the cotton mills and everything up north, that main meal was at lunchtime, so it was then called dinner. So the working class call it dinner, yeah? So I'm having me dinner, which is really interesting, but that's basically what we all do. So if you're down south and you say you're having your lunch, I mean, it's like a small little snack or something because you weren't the working class,

but the working class were fuelled up to do another long shift. So that was also like, yeah. So they were biohacking even back then. Yeah, but they were using the food to control the population. So really, we never used to have three meals a day. We used to have two or one. But then, obviously, the industrial revolution kicked off and they controlled that workforce with classrooms

and with the breakfast, dinner and tea. And the tea time. Yeah, the tea time, yeah. We had, we put some questions out on our social page just as well of who we want, who you'd want on. And the majority came back saying you because, genuinely, because of the biohacking. So we had a lot of questions from people. Obviously, you're hacking into your biology with biohacking.

Explain to us exactly, like in layman's term, for anyone who wants to start doing these simple things, because it's not overcomplicated really, is it? What would be like your top three? Right. So biohacking is, just think of cleaning hacks. You know, that's just fast-track way to get, like, a stain out of flipping cricket whites or whatever. It's a hack, right? But we're just hacking into our biology.

And the great thing about biohacking is it's end of one. I mean, women have really been underserved over the past century because we are, and science will admit it, we're too complicated to study. And my hope is with AI, finally, there will be a brain big enough to take into consideration. Not only our monthly cycle, also our minute by minute cycle. You know, we are complicated creatures. They didn't even use female rats. in labs until recently because it was just too complicated to interpret the data because they're

reproductive. So they just used to, yeah, never mind the whole dietary thing that we are just small men and just cut it in half. It's absolute nonsense. We are totally different to men. And we have more sex hormones. So we actually need, and babies need a higher fat diet than anything, as opposed to this super low fat diet, high carb. It's absolutely crazy what's happened to us. So that's why I like biohacking because no matter what a doctor tells you, you're like, I know my body, it's women's intuition. We know when someone's off and we can sit in the doctor's surgery and be gaslit all the time. We know when something's off. How many times you're going on there? I don't feel right. I mean, they've tried to call me bipolar. I'm just a bloody alcoholic, you know. They tried to

say, I mean, I had ADHD. The amount of medicine they shoved me on was crazy and me and my mom were like that yeah because you've got a white coat on your eye you talk we've totally been told never to listen to our bodies never to listen to our intuition these are the guidelines you stick by it and do you know what it's not really work for me and i mean i don't know i dread to think what would have happened to me if i'd not just taken the bite of the bullet and just like change my focus from carbs to fat i don't know where i'd be right now i'll be honest with you i don't know where i'd be being some sort of pharmaceutical shit did you lock the front door Check.

Close the garage door. Yep. Installed window sensors, smoke sensors and HD cameras with night vision. No. And you set up credit card transaction alerts, a secure VPN for a private connection, and continuous monitoring for our personal info on the dark web. Uh, I'm looking into it.

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You go, no, look, this is me. Like the Dutch test, why aren't we all checking? Every single girl who is in like their peak of life, like about 20, should do a Dutch test. So then you've got a blueprint of when you are optimised. What a Dutch test? A Dutch test is like a dry urine test. hormone test rather than a blood test, which is like a snapshot in time. And remember, our hormones don't fluctuate during the month.

It's second by second, minute by minute, you know, how do you know where your insulin is? How do you know where your cortisol is? It's so complicated, but the dry urine test at least gives you a month of the cycle. Why is this not like standard of care? I do not know, because a woman will then turn up at 35 and say, I don't feel right. And they'll go, oh, well, you look normal. Compared to who? Compared to the rest of the population in that vicinity.

It's absolutely crazy. So getting back to your point about biohacking, I felt really flatline and it wasn't depression. It was just, well, like I said, it was a lack of energy. And the first biohack, and probably the most famous biohack is cold water exposure, you know, and a lot of people will say, oh my God, it's terrible for women.

Women shouldn't do that. We've only had a hot shower for the past 50 years. What did women do for the past like 50 million years? Why are we being treated like wet wipes? We go through childbirth. You know what I mean? And even if you can't do your whole body, just do the soles of your feet. Just do your face.

That's all you need to do. Just get the blood going, you know, and stop being terrified of your own shadow. Your body is a resilient thing. And I tell you what's more probably stressful. Is it onslaught of emails from school? That is more of a trigger point for me than a frigging cold shower because my body knows how to respond to this. What it can't respond to is the correction of the correct.

of when to pick up the kids and who's got to bring in a pound because we've got odd sock day or World Book Day and bloody some cake sale and who has a pound anymore? I'm like, do you take, yeah, can you take my credit card in? Because I've not been to the hole in the war because then you've got to go there and then go to the petrol station and change the £10. I mean, it's just shit.

It's a lot to take on. It's a lot. And then you forget it and your kids like, oh, why can't you be a normal mum? That's what Aza said to me the other day. It's because I'm not normal son. A normal mom. No, do you want me to be. When they need the pound for school, I have to give them my trolley pound.

You keep your trolley pound in your bag from when you go. Well, I'm lucky because I moved out of London, right. There's no trolley pounds. No, everyone does it on trust. It's great. But I wanted to get, but actually, I do have a trolley pound, but it's like a token. I've got that wish. I don't think they'd accept that at school for odd stock.

No, they'd be like, you cheap thing, you tight skate. So walk us through your daily routine then. So I've read and listened to you talk about your fatty coffee and your runs. Yeah. What does a day of... Well, I'm first up in the house. I'm like definitely a morning lock. Matt is a night owl. And that again just goes back to we need people like that in tribes. And that's how a tribe survived. You know, they always have people who are naturally geared up that way. I've got an 18 year old in the house and a 14 year old. And they're going through their nocturnal phase. Boys do it. They find it really hard to wake up throughout the day.

are boom like owls at night and that is just to protect that tribe so you've always got someone awake in a hunter-gatherer society. I know. I've got a 13 year old who's starting to do that and we're trying to force him to go to bed. Yes and he's very reluctant. I know of course because their body's telling them no you stay up you protect the tribe. Watch out for intruders, watch out for predators, watch out for attack and you're going go to sleep and get up at seven and you know it's like it goes against it and I mean I like school. I don't get me wrong, I couldn't run a business if all my kids weren't in school, but I just look at the system and I think,

it's really skew-iff in it. You know, in this day and age, when you see the amount of how computers are growing and everything, surely we need boys plumbing, being electricians and, you know, doing something more physical outside. It's just like, this is from a boy's point of view, right? I just think, they just don't, two of them especially, just do not dig that indoor classroom, like, doing theory and stuff.

No, they need to be outside, don't need the fresh air? Yeah. I don't know. I just think it's a strange. I think, like I said, with AI coming in and everything and chat, I call it chat GTI. You know, the kids can write a thesis in like five seconds. And I'm like, surely there's better stuff for them to be doing. Yeah, because he can cheat everything.

Yes, they can cheat at everything. I mean, for God's sake. So, sorry, my routine, there's my ADHD disappearing. Right, so I got up in the morning. It's about 6.30. I get up. Matt's still asleep Both the dogs sleep with me

I know I know my little hounds and they're dead excited to see me go downstairs straight away the kettle goes on the news goes on which I shouldn't do but I'm nosy and I want to see what's been going on and I get outside

and as soon as I'm and if it's a nice day if it's a nice day let the dogs out and I'll sit outside with them with a cup of coffee and you're right I put fat in it so I've got a keto creamer which is a blend of MCT and butter. And everyone's going to know, what the hell is MCT? Well, it is a type of fatty acid that converts in the liver to a ketone, which I was talking about earlier. And it's only from coconuts, right? You can

get it from goats fat, actually, goat's milk, fat, but it's harder to get. It's much easier to get it from coconuts. It doesn't taste of anything, and it takes about 15 minutes to kick in, and straight away your brain will liven up. And it's neuroprotective. MCTs and ketones are neuroprotective for your brain. So that is the biggest organ that I want to look after. I'm terrified of Alzheimer's. It's horrific. And it's also got butter in it as well. And most people go, butter, butter, that's bad for you. No, it's not. It's got fat soluble vitamins in it and it's really protective for the gut. And it stops me snacking. It stops me looking for granola. It stops me looking for quassons, that sort of thing. So that straight away is what goes down my throat.

I used to be terrified of coffee because it caused me anxiety. But I mean, I actually have a clipper coffee, which is organic and it's instant. I'm not a coffee snob. I just need the caffeine because caffeine opens up a dopamine receptor. So you experience dopamine more. Now you can get dopamine from listening to the news, if something exciting is happening, from daylight, from running, from Neutropics, which I'll come into a minute.

But caffeine makes you experience motivation more, dopamine more. That's why caffeine doesn't push up dopamine. Caffeine makes you experience it more. And that's what I'm lacking in. So I never had coffee because I always thought it was bad for me and give me cellulite. Actually, if you've got a really good coffee, it's full of polyphenols, and it's really good for you.

And it's great for brain health as well. I love a coffee. I feel like, I mean, we were just saying, weren't we after this? We're going to get a coffee. We've got more to do, like more work to do this afternoon, but we both agreed. Power coffee. Power coffee. And, I mean, some people get on with matcha.

I don't. I don't get on with matcha. I would really like to, but the queer sitting in it gives me the hebi-jeebies really powerful. Some people are, like, I discovered that through fault, but I've got a genetic pathway. It's called a comp. gene, C-O-M-P-T, and I am a slow metabolizer of this quercetin. So if I have too much green tea, it can get me to an extent of like paranoia and almost psychosis, yeah.

So when people are saying that I'm having 10 matches a day, I'm like, ooh, are you all right? And I actually, no, I feel absolutely terrible. You might have a slow comp gene as well. So just be careful of matcher. So interesting, isn't you? Yeah, that's what biohacking is. It's being the end of one, because you can't just say everyone's going to have green drinks, everyone's going to have this, everyone's going to do that.

And that's where I think we've fallen short. this pack mentality, you know, and it doesn't work for everybody to just be followed the pack. Clearly for me, I was inflamed, knackered, four stone overweight and pissed off with everything. All I did was watch daytime TV and wait for the kids to come home. You mentioned inflame then. A few experts we've had on in like gut health and training have all said inflammation is the one thing we all need to stop happening in the body. If we can stop one thing like today, it'd be inflammation because it's the really,

cause of so many things, mental and physical. For anyone who is listening to this without knowing the suffering from information, what are the key symptoms and how would they get rid of it? So it's like, you've got your brain fog, which would be brain inflammation, you know, fatigue, lack of hope, lack of optimism, flatline like I was. Slug it, hung over actually. You feel bloody hung over without even having a drink. And that isn't fair, is it?

No, if you're not had a good night. No, there's no. Yeah, it's just like, no, I was just watching Corrie. You know what I mean? Where's the rock and roll in that? Where's the story? No. So it's that, it's like a, that, oh, feeling.

Obviously bloating. Diarrhea or constipation and or constipation. I had very inflamed fingers and knees. I had that as well. I was holding water. So you can get like achy joints and stuff. All that arthritic sort of vibe. I was only 35.

You know what I mean? I'm 47 now and I'm not got it. So yeah, a lot of water attention. And some women have be told, again, like the doctor said, you told, oh, it's normal. Oh, yeah. It's part of being a woman. Oh, well, you're getting older and you've had four kids.

So, what, it's my fault. I've had sex. Oh my God, yeah, what do you expect? Like it was almost like I put on my doorstep. You've had four kids. I've had four, not 40. I've had four, it was normal to have four kids just one generation ago. And I'm being treated like a freak at 35.

How can people reduce inflammation? Simple. Well, I mean, so I have, Every January I go carnivore, which is just because December's a right off, I don't care what anyone says. You've got to have the will of steel and I always feel hung over after it, even though I've not drank. So I do a carnivore diet in January, which is a massive reset. Yeah. And I get leaner, sharper, think better, sleep better.

Don't need as much sleep, actually. I go down to about seven hours rather than eight, bounce out of bed, run faster. everything get leaner, look brighter, skin looks better, and that is just carnival, which is you get up, and it's not,

you don't count calories, by the way, and you don't count grams of fat or anything, you just eat to satisfaction. So you get up in the morning and you have like scrambled eggs with butter,

maybe some bacon, steak, whatever you want, whatever meat, but it's just meat. No veg, no salad, nothing.

No, none of that. Because, I mean, vegetables are great, it's got fiber and stuff in and can really, like, improve your mood and all that.

However, if you're dealing with inflammation, you just want to calm the body down and just let it, just give it the nutrients just to reset itself because you do have like lectins and things like that in certain veg that could be causing you bloated, could be making your swell up and make you look six months pregnant. So it's just a way to, and I just do it for a month. And then I really miss avocado cucumber. And I think of them like, it's crack. I'm like, oh my God, I can't wait for some cucumber, you know. But you do. And then all of a sudden, your barometer moves. I cannot wait to have a tangerine.

And all of a sudden you're excited by that, you know. As opposed to the quality stream. Yeah, exactly, exactly. So the first three days are the hardest, but then your body adapts. And I still have MCT oil. I still have that, which I suppose you could argue is plant base, but I can't get at my hold of any MCT from goat's milk. So.

It's interesting you say with keto for the brain health, because my daughter, she has, she's under treatment for epilepsy. She has the absent seizures and she doesn't fit or anything. It's just like a stare out. And they've got so much better a year in. And I obviously, when I was told that, I was like, right, I need to research, research, research. And I went down a rabbit hole and the keto diet was designed for patients with epilepsy because it rewired, functioned their brain.

So the doctor said to me, if you can get her on a keto diet, You can reset it, rewire a brain for life. Yeah. For life, it's a fix. The improvement we have had, I mean, we're constantly monitoring. In the last six months she's had none. Touchwood school. School of reported none.

We've not seen anything. And it's omelette every day for breakfast. I mean, at first she was like, no, I don't want it. But we were like, nope. I'm putting your collagen in her yoghets and stuff without a knowing. But when I read it, he said it was given to epilepsy patients back in the day. Back in 1930s it was discovered, yeah. Yeah, and it really helped all the symptoms, everything went down.

But then the doctor who discovered this, his hospital miraculously got burnt down with all the research and everything. But people were like, well, now we'll use it as a diet, a fad diet to get people slim. So it's kind of flipped its role of what people think it does. Yeah, but ultimately it's something that protects the brain. And you have to remember that every decision is made in the brain, whether it's to put a pair of trainers on, take the dog for a walk or whether it's to walk back to the kitchen and make yourself another sandwich and put the telly back on and sit down and scroll. That was made in your brain. If your brain has got access to certain chemicals and certain fuels, right, it's going to choose the former over the latter

every single time because it wants to thrive. It doesn't want to just survive. It wants to thrive. So I think when anyone talks to me about weight loss, I'm like, yeah, I've not got the craving. It's not about a weigh in. I've given up alcohol. I've given up, like, processed foods because I've not got the bloody craving in the first place because I've put an energy source in my brain that shuts it up.

It's a bit like what GLP 1, what all like Wagovi and everything. That is the same thing. It's just quiet and down the food noise. And that's what ketones do without having to inject yourself. So it's the same effect as... Yeah, it's a GLP1 agonist,

but you don't... Obviously, it's got the benefits. No side effects. Well, no side effects. because we're still having a lot of protein. We can still eat. We can still absorb a ton of nutrition. Whereas with the Wigovian everything,

you generally don't eat and you can get malnourished. And that's terrible, you know, because you don't want that. Because what happens when you stop taking it, you're going to have the rebound effect, don't you? Which we don't know yet. Or if you get like poorly, you're not going to have the... Well, yeah. And also, you're not going to have the bone density and muscle density.

And anyone who's got more muscles is going to fight, say, a disease like cancer way better. So that's how important muscle. mass is to me. So, you know, I really strive to have a lot of protein every day. Same again with the kids. It's meat and two vegans. There's nothing I can do at school. I know they're having crap at school. I just have to ignore it. But they have eggs and my protein that I make, the bone broth protein in the morning and they're out the door with a load of milk, full fat milk, and then they're out the door. I know they're going to have pizza at school or crappy pasta.

Yeah, it's a treat. But, you know, they come home and then we have like lamb chops and stew. They hate stew. They hate it because it's like, you know, boring and brown, but it's tough. It's got everything in it. And it's a bone broth-based stew, you know, like your grandma made. And it's shit doing it, and it's boring. And it's not as good as, like, party food. But for God's sake, it's their brain.

Just quickly, because I am fascinated what you're saying about being a GLP-1 agonist. Is that the phrase you used? So, obviously, it's everywhere news about GLP-1 at the moment. as everyone seems to be honest. I'm not sure that's necessarily true, but it's all over the media. But you're saying ketones are a natural way to get a similar effect.

Yeah, just to quiet the noise. In a very simple layman's terms, in order to get more ketones on board, you reduce the level of carbs and increase the level of fat intake. Is that basically what you're saying? Yeah, basically. So you're not advocating to cut carbs out

because as a brand, we never advocate to cut out food, whole food groups. We have this crazy notion that you have to have whole grains six times a day, according to the eat well plate. It's absolutely crazy because... Six times is a lot for any food group, isn't it? Exactly. It's absolutely crazy because that, the food pyramid and the eat well plate was designed by the agricultural industry. You'll have to get her on. Zoe Hardcom.

She's at Cambridge. She blew it to smithereens, Zoe Hardcom. this whole, because it's in every dentist, every doctor's, oh, this is what you've got to have, you know. But ultimately, you know, if it's a gateway, it's like me, it's like me with alcohol. If I'm going to have one sip of wine, I'm off to the races.

That's the same with something as addictive as white bread. It is a gateway drug to all sorts. And you've got to start looking at what is triggering you as an individual. What is triggering you? Is it that piece of bread that's sending you off to end up on having a Chinese sake? away by Saturday, again, letting yourself down. What is the gateway drug for you? Anything that's in a packet, have a look on the back. What's in it? Have you got multidextrin in there? Don't look at the front. The front, forget it. That's marketing. Look at the back. Have you got multidextron in there?

Have you got rapeseed oil in there? Have you got sunflower oil in there? What's in there that's making you eat more? What is not satisfying you? Because they are designed to be bliss point foods. They are designed by, we're talking five major companies on the planet that own 95% of our food, including every single cereal, every single carb, every, the lot is all owned by five companies. And they don't give a shit who you buy from because you're always going to feed back into the network. But not all carbs out of processed, are they? So there are, well, I'm talking, I mean, well, like what? But potatoes.

I know, but I mean, that is a whole food diet. That's totally different. Yeah. I'm talking about the food that everyone goes, yeah, but you're demonising carbs. That's just common sense. Let's just park that. But when you are comparing something,

when you're trying to come off this, this roller coaster, you just have to go, you have to put the most nutrient dense things in your body. And I'm talking beef liver and things like that. Stuff that is going to shut your body down from this panic mode that it goes, have more because you get more, get more because we're not satisfied.

We can't heal with no amino acids. That was what I started doing. I started having more, not less. I started trying to over eat like red meat. And so, you know, if you're making like a bolognese or something like that, put in a 50 pence piece worth of beef liver in it, your kids won't notice it. But they've got all that folate, all those B vitamins. You don't need to give them a multivitamin.

You get some beef liver in there. You can tell what. Hence the stew, you over-egg the vitamins and minerals. And if a craving comes, it's not for your body. That's habit. That's addiction. Yeah, that's like when you have a biscuit with a cup of tea just because you want something to dunk in. Yeah.

You can tell you you're really passionate about the food and stuff. I think it's brilliant. And obviously that's what's inspired you to create will powders. It's huge. You've got a massive following with will powders. And I know you're launching in Australia. We've launched Australia and America. What was it that made you want to do that?

Was it just time for change? It wasn't anywhere you do it yourself. Well, it's like, I'm just talking to you about how do you become ketosis. It's really tricky. It's really hard to get. something that tastes good off the shelf and done while we're spinning plates. And that's why I brought out the family pack of collagen, you know, because people think collagen is just all skin hair and nails. I'm like, no, this is like a health food. This is, remember, your skin is on the inside as well.

You've got your gut lining. You've got all the collagen that, you know, you've got your joints. You've got. I mean, everything, everything you've got inside is made a collagen and these amino acids. And I'm like, oh my God, we're being patronised again as women. Oh, you get nice hair. Oh, fuck off. I'm actually really worried about my organs packing in. I'll be honest with you. That's my major concern.

Not about my hair falling, snapping or me getting some wrinkles. I'm actually really worried about, you know, what the hell is going to happen to me? My mother died at 59. I'm 50 soon. What the hell can I do to protect the organs in my body? So my body feels safe enough. and it can protect itself and build itself this fortress so I can go way into my 80s and 90s.

That's what I feel about collagen as opposed to wishy-washy. Oh, but she's got no wrinkles. I hate all that. So I've got it as a family pack and I'm like, put it in the kids' bloody porridge. If they're on carbs, put it in their porridge. Get them some amino acids for the love of God

because what they're getting at schools are a load of crap, as we all know. You know, we are not eating how nature intended since the 70s. It all went kaput. And look what's happened. Childhood diabetes is skyrocketing. Non-alcoholic fatty liver disease in little ones, which was unheard of in the 80s for anyone, except a man in his 60s. Kids now have it. Children have non-alcoholic fatty liver disease.

But there's different types of collagen, isn't there? Because there's lots of people, I've had grief for not having them, for taking bovine collagen over the marine collagen. But it's like with the marine collagen, You don't know where it's from really. There's no borders in the sea. And obviously if you've watched the Attenborough-D ocean documentary, you'll understand that you've got dolphins in there and everything. And you literally cannot.

Anyone who's selling Marine College and it's farmed, if they say it's wild, I'm like, well, prove it. They can't. Because I've looked into this. There's someone who's in the industry. I said, prove it. Prove that it's line caught. And it will reflect it in the price phenomenally.

Right? The reason why I've gone for beef is because they are Swiss. the cows are Swiss. They live between 10 to 15 years, as opposed to 10 to 15 weeks in South America. And they come from small holdings because they're in Switzerland. You can't have these mega farms because of that's how the land is. You know, and it's also used nose to tail.

And the guy, the farmers who birth them actually take them to slaughter. It's not like you see in these horrific factory farmers, which I'm completely against. So the beef is used, the skins are used, the hooves are used. Everything is used in that animal and it's had a high welfare life, i.e. the traditional Swiss way out on the mountains. They've still got the bells. It's very, very old school. And we eat a very sort of old-fashioned life. So to put you into some perspective, we're a family of six, we've got two dogs. And we have done a deal with our local farmer

whereby we will live for a year off one cow and one sheep when it's butchered properly. And you put it in a chest freezer. For the full year? For the full year. Wow. And we go to another dairy and we get raw milk up the road from there and we get the cheese and the butter from there as well.

And that works out cheaper than going to the supermarket all the time. But just to give you some perspective of how big these animals are where a family of six and that will last us a year. And you know what you get in is what it says on the team. Yeah, we do because I know the farmer. But the reason why I, for WillPellers, we saw some Switzerland is by law,

it has the highest welfare standards of the world. That's why. And I know what blade of grass. it's had. I know the air quality. I know how it's been raised. I know how it's been real. I know how it's been slaughtered. And it's nothing like what you see in South America. And the marine one stinks. And like I said, you've got microplastic sewage and there's no borders in the sea. And they have to mask it because it's unbearable. And bovine collagen basically is, well, we're warm bloody creatures. We don't have scales. So I'm going to stick to that.

You've mentioned collagen. You've mentioned the MCT oil. They're your two best sellers then. And the protein. And the protein. So what, again, trying to make it really easy for mums. And by the way, all our products are fine for men as well. This is a family brand. You know, this is just the reason why I market to women is because they, I speak their language, because I'm spinning plates and doing my nutting every day with like,

God knows what. But also I'm trying to make it sort of easy for the, because moms generally do buy for the household. We do. Regardless of this hobby we've got called full-time work during the day, we come home. and we do this other full-time job, like coordinating X, Y and Z, play dates and whatever. So I've tried to, so our protein is the only one on the market, actually,

and I was determined to have something that doesn't make you bloated because it's full of pee or weird hemp or some byproduct of the cheese industry, which is way and can really upset your gut. It's made from bone broth. So we go to Scandinavia, again, where the cows are bred outside and they stay outside until it's winter and then they come in and they eat hay and then they go back out again it's a whole big thing and they are slaughtered

exactly the same way as the Swiss do there's a special sort of like there's a welfare in Scandinavia as well and then what we do is we boil the bones and that's for 36 hours and all the nutrients the minerals the collagen all goes into this bone broth and then we dehydrate it and then we flavour it with natural ingredients and things like bloody vanilla pod from Madagascar and stuff like that because it's not actually strong once it's been dehydrated it doesn't smell beefy you can mask it really quickly and we've got let's see we've got vanilla chocolate we've got a dark chocolate coming out soon we did milk chocolate because I'm got a high street I've got a high street palette yeah I'm like raised in the 80s you know what I mean one bars for the love of God I mean I mean

You've got the strawberry as well. And we've got a strawberry out as well. And then we've got chocolate orange. It's not Terri's, but it does taste like Terry's chocolate orange. But I did all the sweet stuff because that's my Achilles, you know. But then we're going to do a dark chocolate because there's some people out there with this sophisticated palette that need to be catered for. I love that.

I don't like it. I mean, I love like fruit and nut and all that. Oh, I like really, really milky chocolate for me. I like Advent calendar chocolate. Do you know what I mean? Real bottom of the barrel store, not at all sophisticated. I love that. So that is one of our big sellers and we're going to expand that range

because for me, bone broth is every single society on the planet will agree. From the Aztecs to the Vikings, who were bloody great at it because it kept invading everyone, were agreed that bone broth is the base for every meal. It's a stew, it's a soup, it's like, I mean, chicken soup. was, you know, bone broth base Jewish penicillin. That's what they called it because it was with chicken's feet and everything like that. It had all that

nutrition in. But my mom used to do me chicken noodle soup, which is like that luminous stuff from Noritz. Never seen a chicken. Never man of chicken's fault with all the collagen and that, you know. So we've come away from understanding that mega superfood, which is bone broth, as the base for everything. That's why I'm like,

you know, the meat and two veg, we've got to start doing stews again. Kids can't have pizza and I don't know like pick them ups every night they need to just understand it's brown food day to day love and they go I hate it and I'm like well if you finish it then you can go out and play and that's that's how we we should be raising the kids basically yeah

moving on to talk about obviously your future and the legacy that you want and everything you've been like you said you've been sober for 17 years is it what advice would you give to anyone who's struggling with addiction right now be your alcohol food, drugs, what advice would you give them from someone who's been through it? Okay, so number one, it's a disease, right? 101. And like the things I mentioned earlier, it is kind of beyond your control. But if something resonates with you that I've said, there's more information out there.

And by the way, there are millions of us. And I think it's a growing population because I think there's going to be dopamine dysregulation with this next generation like we've never seen before, because of the phones and the reels. So if you would look at reels and how they flick up and they're random, it's very much like the slot machine. It's the same mechanism. It's the excitement.

You're waiting and anticipating. That's why you sometimes, if you get caught in a real doom scroll, you stay up later than you intend to. That's just dopamine at work. It's waiting, waiting, and anticipated. And the chance and the unpredictability of it is exhausting kids' dopamine. So I do anticipate there's going to be an epidemic of it if we're not already in it right now, particularly when you look at the obesity epidemic, again,

that is just dopamine dysregulation because we've been exposed to dopamine excitatory foods since being tiny tots. So it's not your fault, right? The system has been designed that way, particularly if you are predisposed because you're a slight ADHD or you're on the spectrum or something like that and you've got low dopamine. and you would have been that hunter-gatherer maybe a few centuries ago, you would have been that go-getter in the tribe. So don't panic. You're not a bad person. You don't have lack of will.

You just have a lack of energy in your brain. And we can reset it and you can rewire it very, very, very quickly. And there is a life beyond that addictive substance that you would not believe. The clarity, the energy, once you can let go of this addictive substance, is tenfold, what you felt when you were in the madness. It's so rewarding to be an addict, but on the other side. I can't tell you. And it is a brain that wants harness in the right direction is quite, quite to behold.

So, you know, I don't worry about my kids. If they've got it, great. I don't know two of them possibly have. I watch them like horse, like we all do. But I'm not freaked out, like say, my mum would have been. Thinking, oh, my God, she's going to be an alcoholic. I'm like, if it happens, I know what to do because there is a cure and there is a life beyond your wildest dreams.

And it happens every single day. People get better and they just go, wow, what the hell was all bad about? So this must be the message you would want to give 20-year-old to Vineyard. Well, no, because I think everything that I've been through, I can look back. And it's just like another stripe, isn't it? You know, you've been to hell and back. I mean, I've stared through the gates of hell in that withdrawal. I have felt the devil in my veins.

It is harrowing. So the only thing that can compare, when you come off that substance for me was white wine. My God, it was white wine. You get like every sort of like maybe 40 seconds you get like this sinking feeling. The same sinking feeling I can remember is when I was sat in Christy's hospital with my mum and I said to the doctor how long she got and he said six months and she just turned and stared at me as if to go, oh my god that is the feeling that that cold drop takes your breath and yeah and you drop that's what you get every sort of like 50 seconds and you can feel it coming on with withdrawal

and that's and you can't sleep through it that's how long does that last like days well i think it was for me um day one day two day three i must have started getting the liver clear day four i'm like how by the way these days feel like weeks. Day four, I started getting a bit of anger. I didn't realize that was a good sign because that's energy coming back. Remember, anger is a great molecule for doing something. I got through the first year of sobriety

being so angry at my ex-husband, I was not going to drink. Remember that. Anger is a valid emotion for women to use injustice, you're damn right, and it can actually motivate you to plow through the victim into that victim mentality which can bring us back into the pain

and push through the thoughts that I used to have about what I'm going to do to the system and everything like that was so ferocious but that rage pushed me through so don't dismiss rage and think you've got to sit around chanting doing like memoirs and crystal

if that's not your motivational state you use anger you use your rage and that can plow you through the pits of hell because actually if I'm not in rage I'm in fear and that could sometimes be dangerous for me. So let's see. I think day five is when the liver clears a lot of the alcohol. And then I think it's a bit of flatline for about a week and then week two hope started coming in.

So we're talking about a two week, a two week of white knuckling. The first 72 hours are hell. And it is that emotion that I described to. And that is what you've got to go through. But it's worth it. It does wear off. It does pass. And the liver will clear.

Because remember the gut, the brain and the liver are all connected. You know what it's like if you have a hangover? Your brain feels terrible. You get paranoid. You get beer fear and everything. I mean, what I should have done back then, but I didn't know about, my gut microbiome. I didn't know about eating like kimchi or

you know probiotics. I didn't know any of that. I just literally was told to eat a load of Haribos because they said most people in withdrawal will crave alcohol and sugar which of course they come hand in hand. So that's, they should have given me ketones but that was nearly 20 years ago. So they gave me Haribos instead and they just sat there. You know what's better than the one big thing? Two big things. Exactly. The new iPhone 17 Pro on Tellis' five-year rate plan price lock.

Yep, it's the most powerful iPhone ever, plus more peace of mind with your bill over five years. This is big. Get the new iPhone 17 Pro at tellus.com slash iPhone 17 Pro on select plans. Conditions and exclusions apply. So you've conquered addiction. You've got a hugely successful business. You've got a lovely family. What's next?

What do you want to do next? Well, I want to grow the business into a family business. Before you go, it's been brilliant in this chat by the way. It's fascinating. It's so interesting. We have a quickfire round. Claire asked quick fire questions for you. And then we have a hack or hate round.

Do you want to do the quick fire first? I will, yeah. So we didn't give you the heads up on these at all. No. Quick answers. Gemma and I are coming to Lancashire for dinner at your place. Yeah. What are you cooking us?

Steak. A stew. And eggs. No steak and eggs. I'm really bad at stews because I'd have to prepare it. So I go, and put on an iron pan, you know, to griddle it properly. Yeah, steak. Steak and an egg. Not a non-steak.

That's what Hazel said. Dr. Hazel said steak as well. Yeah, steak, definitely. I do sourdough as well because that's, and then I probably put cream. Yeah, yeah, to mop it up. A rock salt and all that. Yeah, it would be steak and eggs. What's the last thing that made you barely laugh?

Oh my God. So my best friend, she started working for us at Will Powder's, right? So I've known her 35 years. And we were talking about replacing alcoholic drinks with like say kombucha and stuff that we sell. Anyway, we were filming. It's called the Bevolution. We're doing it for summer and trying to get people to make healthy swaps. And she reminded me of this time when she was doing Fizz Fridays at school. She's on the PTA. And her husband came to the pub where all the PTA were. And he said, he knew things had gone wrong because he couldn't find Sophie, but he found both of his boys playing on the floor of the disabled toilet. Oh, no. And he knew she was blind drunk with the mum's going, right, how are we raising some money? He said he knew the kids weren't of any significance when they're in the disabled toilet playing on the floor.

Oh, God. Because we've all been there. It really made me barely laugh. We are. Frighting. Right. You're going to a desert island. for 12 months. You can only take one thing. What is it? Oh, a Kindle. I just need to read. I love reading. I love reading fiction. I love syncing into a great book. It's my, and by the way,

reading a story, not doing crosswords, reading a story helps prevent Alzheimer's. It operates a part of the brain, the imagination sector, which is better than doing crosswords. So sink into a good page turner this summer. What book have you just finished or you I'm just about to start one called she just sent it to me. I don't know she got my address. She's just an author from Liverpool called The Wonderbrow years so I'm just about to start that and then there's another one called Chips and Gravy that I'm she's an author and she don't know who she is but she's written a few really good books that have made me think yeah that's me I do that like it's like cul-de-sac sort of politics

and she's written another one called the drunk tank about some guy who's trying to get sober And I think it will be really funny. Because it is, you casually said. I don't know if you got my address, but I've accepted it anyway. I guess I'll have this. Could be laced with anything. I know, I'm going to read it, but I thought the wonder why it is. It sounds good that.

That's free, so I'll have it. Yeah, so it's based in the 90s in Liverpool, so I'll read that. And for those listening today, if you could advise them to do one quick thing to make themselves feel better, what would it be? Oh, how about dunking your head into a bowl of ice water? You don't have to do the shower, just do that because you've got loads of receptors on your skin. It's very good for your skin. skin as well. So just do that. For how long? For a week? Oh, just

like hold your breath. That's all. 15 seconds. Nothing. Just so you go, oh, afterwards. So you get the shot. It's about the shock. So try, but actually, don't do it every day. Flip a coin, right? You've got to flip a coin with dopamine because it'll increase dopamine because if you do it every day, the body and will remember and it will learn and it will become tolerant. So if you flip a coin, maybe the coin that you're going to use in your

trolley. Yeah. Or for your kids. We're a book day, I don't know. But if you've got a coin, you flip it, tails you do it, heads you don't. Oh no, heads you go in and tails you don't. And the body will still react by increasing dopamine because it's got a shock. Otherwise, if you did it Monday, once in Friday, the body would learn and it would adapt and it would just tolerate it.

So you've got to keep the body getting with dopamine. So biohacking could maybe be a little bit intimidating to some people. You know, some people have zero knowledge base. So how can they get into it in the first instance? Okay, so if you want, I mean, if you wanted to become a proper biohacker, you want to start, like, tracking your sleep or tracking your steps. I mean, a lot of us have got smart watches and phones and stuff. You could put near the bed.

Ideally, you don't have your phone near your bed anyway because it gives off EMF or something like that that's going to fry your brain. But if you do anyway, you may as well make the most of it, and it can tell you how deep you've slept. For me, the biggest biohack in the world is sleep, good quality sleep. So you could do a little experiment whereby you track your sleep. I use aura, right? I use the aura ring, which is about 200 quid.

You could track your sleep with and without, say, magnesium by glycinate. Let's just see if we can do hacks at night to improve your deep sleep. And that means you're a biohacker. And I think if anyone's struggling, the first thing to do is focus on your sleep. And that could be having a magnesium bath. So that's fine to have citrate in your bath, but if you're going to take it orally and you want to rest, it's magnesium bi-glycinate, yeah?

Not citrate. Sitrate goes in the bath, otherwise it's going to make you poo your pants and you won't have a good night's sleep then if you've got off any tummy. Thank you. And that is our quick-fire question. These are hack or hate. So I'm going to just give you one thing and you say whether it's a hack and you would do it or whether it's a hate.

Okay. 5 a.m. starts. Oh, hate. Lemon water in the morning. It's a hack. yeah but with some salt as well you need the salt see salt like a natural electrolyte i think meditation oh i'm really bad at it but yeah it's a really good hack i hate it though a hacky hate it journaling hate it cold showers great hack 10 000 steps a day minimum yeah definitely or you could just like

get every former and bounce up and down and stuff but definitely get your lymphatics going and lastly matcha flavored everything well i get the ebgibs from matcher yeah you know so i can't But for some people, I suppose it's better than that, Dubai chocolate, which is like everywhere. It's true, isn't it? But it's green. But yeah, be careful with matcha. It could be a foe. I used to love a matcher.

I used to have a matcher nearly every morning. Yeah. And then it was until I started having a bloody keto creamer and my coffee, it starts tastes nice. And I just have black coffee with that in. So I don't have match it now, really. Unless it's a special occasion. Yeah. I mean, I think if I have two, then I can feel the question coming in and I got a, like, just like a,

a slight paranoia. Like, I'm like, oh, God. It's funny how we all react differently. Gittery. Jittery, yeah. Well, thank you so much for coming down. It's been lovely. Thank you.

And, yeah, we'll look forward to listening. Fascinating. Thanks for having me. Rinse takes your laundry and hand delivers it to your door, expertly cleaned and folded. So you could take the time once spent folding and sorting and waiting to finally pursue a whole new version of you. Like tea time you.

Or this tea time you. Or even this tea time you. Said you hear about Dave? Or even tea time, tea time, tea time you. Mmm. So update on Dave. It's up to you. We'll take the laundry. Rinse. It's time to be great.