Just As Well, The Women's Health Podcast - Why All Women Need To Strength Train + How To Get Results

Episode Date: March 16, 2021

If your workouts are centred around achieving maximum calorie burn - or you’re mega into running but don’t do much to strengthen your hard-working muscles between clocking up those 5ks - it’s time for a rethink. Because all women need to be strength training - according to two of the most esteemed trainers in the business. They are Joslyn Thompson Rule, Nike Master Trainer, women’s strength specialist, author of How To Move It and host of the Fitness Unfiltered podcast, and Andy Vincent, a PT with 20+ years experience in the fitness industry who has extensively studied strength and conditioning, sports performance, nutrition and biomechanics. So, why exactly is strength training so important for women? What do you need to get started? How do you progress your practice? And is there any truth supporting that tired - but still getting traction - notion that lifting weights can ‘bulk you up’? Women’s Health’s Editor-in-Chief Claire Sanderson gets to the bottom of these questions, and more, in today's show. Join Joslyn Thompson Rule on Instagram: @joslynthompsonrule Join Andy Vincent on Instagram @andyvincentpt Join Claire Sanderson on Instagram @clairesanderson Join Women's Health UK on Instagram @womenshealthuk Like what you’re hearing? We'd love if you could rate and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, as it really helps other people find the show. Also, remember to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, so you’ll never miss an episode. Got a goal in mind? Shoot us a message on Instagram putting ‘Going for Goal’ at the start of your message and our experts could be helping you achieve your health goal in an upcoming episode. Alternatively, you can email us: [e-mail] Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by Square. You're not just running a restaurant. You're building something big. And Square's there for all of it. Giving your customers more ways to order, whether that's in-person with Square kiosk or online. Instant access to your sales, plus the funding you need to go even bigger.

And real-time insights so you know what's working, what's not, and what's next. Because when you're doing big things, your tools should to. Visit square.ca to get started. Now streaming on Paramount Plus is the epic return of Mayor of Kingstown. Warden? You know who I am.

Starring Academy Award nominee Jeremy Renner. I swear in these walls. Emmy Award winner Eidie Falco. You're an ex-con who ran this place for years. And now, now you can't do that. And Bafto Award winner Lenny James. You're about to have a plague of outsiders descend on your town. Let me tell you this.

It's got to be consequences. Mayor of Kingstown, new season now streaming on Paramount Plus. What do you do habitually to become physically stronger? If your workouts are more centred around achieving maximum calorie burn or your mega into, say, running and don't do much to strengthen those hardworking muscles in between those 10Ks, it's time for rethink. Whether it's lifting weights, doing upright rows with a TRX looped around a tree, or dropping down low to do an eye-watering number of squats with a heavy resistance band looped around your thighs,

all women need to be strength training. But what's the science behind why exactly? It's so important. How do you incorporate strength training exercise into your workout week in a way that supports your existing fitness goals? And is there any truth supporting that tired, but still getting traction, notion that weight training can, and I'm using air quotes here, bulk you up?

Hello, I'm Roshin-Dervish O'Kane, and this is Going for Goal, the weekly Women's Health podcast. On this show, we call on top experts to share the tools you need to make good on the health goals that really matter to you. And chat to our favourite celebrities and wellness stars about what they do to feel and function at their best. The two experts bringing the knowledge in today's episode are two of the most well-respected figures in the UK fitness scene. The first is Jocelyn Thompson Rule, a Nike master trainer, women's strength specialist, author of How to Move It, and host for the Fitness Unfiltered podcast. The second is Andy Vincent, a PT with over 20 years experience in the fitness industry, who's extensively studied strength and conditioning, sports performance, nutrition and biomechanics.

He's also long-time mentor to PT and three-time women's health cover star Alice Living. In today's chat with Women's Health Editor-in-Chief Claire Sanderson, they both make a seriously compelling case for why women need to make a habit of strength training. Not only for the physical wind or body composition benefits, like the more muscle you have, the more energy you burn at rest. But also for those hidden but no less essential facets of health, like bone density. They also cover the mechanics of muscle building, the geek and me loved it. How to nail the cardio resistance training balance,

why recovery is so important when you're looking to get strong and toned, plus the principles you need to know about best fueling your body while on a get strong mission. Over to Claire. Should we start with you, Jocelyn? That's a very simple question. why do you think women should be strength training? Well, for me, it was, if I think back on my own experience of when I started strength training and the impact that had on me.

So I started strength training when I was at university. I got a place on the women's rowing team. And it coincided at a point in time where I felt sort of very out of place at the university I went to. It was like a wealthy university. Lots of people there had been privately. educated. So I felt, I just didn't, I felt like a big outsider there. And the one thing that gave me a sense of self again was actually strength training and the strength work that I had to do for rowing. And it gave me a level of confidence that I just didn't get from anywhere else. And it was, it was very

soon after that that I thought, right, okay, if this is the impact that it's had on me, because strength there's something that nobody can take away from you, you own it, you've worked for it, then how can I do this for other people? And specifically, how can I, you know, I work with men and women, but it's one of those things that is, you know, a lot of women shy away from. And so for me to show the impact that it had on me and my life, and really was a pivotal point, to be fair because here I am in the industry 18 years later doing the same thing. I wanted to be able to share with other people that thing that nobody can take away from you and that you have to work for. And it never gets, it never gets tired. It never gets old.

In fact, the older you get, the more important it is, you know, for you to do. So it's just, it's hugely important for everyone. Thank you. Andy, why is it the physiologically women should lift weights? So there's loads of really, really important benefits around strength training. I think just generally speaking, one of the things that when I think of when I train women, what's like the thing they neglect or what's the thing not often is the bucket that needs filling the most. And adding strength, adding the ability to manage force is just one of those things that's going to help everyone from a sense of, obviously increasing muscle mass, but increasing bone density. increasing connected tissue, tendon, joint health, joint integrity.

So lots and lots of really important benefits. And then like Josh and on from like obviously the mental benefits are amazing, but also just moving us away from thinking of exercise solely as sometimes calories burn and thinking about actually performance metrics and how we can make our bodies perform better. And I think that's for me that's kind of a key benefit. So Andy, you mentioned calories there. It's such a loaded word in the world of women's wellness. We've long been told that you burn calories to lose weight and the best way to do that is cardio. But that's not actually true, is it? Because if your aim is to burn calories and lose body fat,

strength training builds lean muscle mass, which will help you burn calories as you go about your day to day. Yeah, correct. It's kind of a, I guess a lot of coaches are bug-bearer in the industry where we just think of exercise as a method of burning more energy. And doing so it takes build down both a very negative mindset, but also it alters are sort of focus towards training more for performance benefits. I really think of exercise and any method you use for exercise, especially strength training, as performance benefits. And then the calorie burn just becomes like a nice little addition. add-on. It's not the thing to focus on. It just happens in the background. I guess because calorie calculation can be so inaccurate, so you've got quite inaccurate data. And then you just sort of lose the really amazing benefits that we've sort of said that strength training actually brings along. And like you said, if you're holding a bit on lean muscle, then you'll burn more calories at rest. You'll perform better. So you go for a run. You'll be stronger and have more joint resilience. therefore you can run faster, run further.

So it all sort of stands back down to if you really focus on the performance benefits of training as a whole and sort of park the idea of at least this allowed calories to tick along with the background, they could be something just to know of there, not the sort of primary focus of why we train. Jocelyn, can you explain in the simplest terms what happens to your muscles when you lift weights? Okay, so when you lift weights, you will put a certain amount of stress on your muscles. And what happens is you get these little micro tears in the muscles, which is not something to worry about. And what will happen then once you finish training and once you recover in the right way, which is a whole other talk and conversation, your muscles will rebuild themselves and they will come back stronger.

And that's the simplest, simplest, simplest, simplest, simplest terms that I can put it in. So when you train, tiny little micro tears in the muscles, they will then knit back together, come back stronger. So should you do that same kind of load again, they will be able to handle that load slowly over time. It's not something that can be rushed. It's not something that can be cheated in any way. it's just a process of progressive overload. So yeah. And do you have to lift weights or can you achieve that through body weight exercises? Yeah. I mean, you can, you know, the, you know, adding weight once you, so you would put it in a certain order.

So you wouldn't necessarily get somebody, you know, if somebody can't necessarily handle their own body weight or be able to control their own body weight in a squat, example, like an air squat, then it wouldn't make sense for us to load them up with a weight because that wouldn't be safe. But for somebody who is moving their body for the first time, mastering that body weight is going to be really, really beneficial, not only because that's the important piece, but also we want for them once they are loading to be able to handle that load safely. So it's, you know, movement and strength training is also just about that movement. movement control, like things like there are lots of exercises that are body weight exercises that can be done poorly. And they may be perceived to be easy, but they're actually not being

done well. So you may even have somebody who's super flexible can drop down into a body weight squat really easily. There's no, they don't have any mobility issues or whatever. But if you start loading them up and they don't have any control in that movement, then you will have issues later. So it's about quality of movement before we load up. But there are so many layers within that to be able to move well and to be able to move well under load that it is important to master the body weight first. So Andy, if somebody's fairly new to strength training or maybe he's been prioritising cardio over this last 12 months where not everyone had weights at home and couldn't afford to remortgage their home to buy some because that's how expensive weight

to became when everyone was scrambling to buy kettlebells, etc. What advice would you give them as a starting block as an entry into strength training? Like Justin said, there's so much that can be done with body weight, with very minimal equipment. The kind of the key is to keep it progressively challenged to make sure that you are looking to improve. and most exercises break down to sort of like fundamental patterns of movement of which most of them people you're kind of know so you've got like lower body pushing things like squat patterns you've got up body pushes like pushups and then you've got things like up body pools like chin ups and those sort of things so you've got pushes and pools upper and lower so you can sort of think of the body in that way and then just assign exercises that are challenging for each one so something like a squat you can start obviously with the body body weight work and when you can do a certain amount of sets and reps, you're thinking then how can I make this more challenging using what I've got if I haven't got equipment? And the obvious thing to do is to switch to single leg style training because then you've got to manage

your entire body weight on one leg. You've got to work with coordination balance. Obviously, you can hold onto a wall to stabilise and things, but you can move a squat to a single leg exercise, push up, stay pretty hard for most people just staying as they are. And you can, you can hold on to can manipulate the speed in which you move through them so you can kind of go a little bit slower. But it's really simplify it right down to look at the sort of push-pull patterns up or lower. Make sure the exercise you select is scalable. And you're always just trying to, because the key is that stimulus, the justice spoke about that. You place stimulus on the body.

The body has to adapt to that stimulus. So when you rest, recover and you go again, you can do that stress easier. So long as you've got this small progressive scale, adding a rep every two weeks, going a little bit deeper into a push-up every two weeks, just little things that you can do to make sure that every single time you're training, not every single time, but at least the mindset towards it, is this idea progressively loading and overloading the body. So you mentioned push-pull quite a lot throughout that. Can you explain what you mean by a push-day and a pull day and how you should order them within your training patterns? Yeah, so just trying to think about the sort of really primary movements that we think of in strength training. So squat pattern is really like a pushing style pattern for the lower body. And then things like a deadlift. Most people have sort of seen maybe a deadlift on social media.

That's a hinge pattern. It's going to be more of a pulling style exercise. So if you're just thinking really, a push is moving a load away from the body and then a pull is the pulling load towards the body. That's not perfect, but it will get mostly exercise as kind of like, falling into boxes. And then from there, so you've got the push pull, upper and lower body exercises. How you organise them, generally speaking, as coaches, we try and encourage people to do more pulling patterns than push. Just because push is a much more biased way that we sort of run, we go upstairs, we do things that very much uses those push muscles. So doing things like

floor bridges, hip thrusters, hamstring bridges, those style hinge exercises, having a few more of those in just to create a bit more balanced to the overall structure to the way you put your program together. And then just stops people from doing like every single push variation going. You're not doing like see if they can do push-ups, incline push-ups, dips. It ends up being a lot of the same style exercise. So you can just think a little bit about the pools as well, just as it brings a nice healthy balance into the workout. Jocelyn, there's a lot of disagreement, noise around what's more effective, lower rates, higher reps to fatigue or higher weights, lower reps, time and detention.

Do they achieve different outcomes? If I was taking a beginner and I'm introducing them to lifting, it's not going to be safe for me to load their body up with higher weights and lower repetitions because they're they're just not going to be able to handle that. Again, if we go back to that, managing your body weight first, being able to do that great, and then we slowly start loading. Now, if I've got a beginner to the gym or a beginner to working out, not only am I getting them to do these exercises and make sure that they're doing them safely, I'm also trying to build up their tendon strength as well, I'm also trying to do enough repetition so they get used to the movements,

they're comfortable with the movement. Once they're there, once they're good, I will then start to add more load if that's if that's what we're if that's what we're requiring and eventually yes I'm going to get them to lower repetitions anything between I don't know three to six rep range let's just say and lifting lifting heavier loads it's dependent on a ton of things but generally if I'm trying to build somebody's strength yes I want to go for big compound movement patterns. You know, Andy was talking about deadlift, squats, all of those big movements that use lots of muscles all at the same time.

And then I want to make sure that I'm using a load that is enough, again, to simulate adaptation because that's how we build strength. So we also in the fitness world can get stuck in words like toning and things like that. And again, it's especially for women, and strength training for women. This idea that, well, lifting heavier weights is going to turn me into Arnie, which incidentally it's not,

is just still, you know, in the mindset and going back to the calorie conversation, a lot of women still think it's about more calories burnt than lifting a heavier weight. But, and I don't know if you find this, Andy, a lot of people will come maybe for weight loss as their goal. It's still a big thing as much as we're trying to change that conversation. That's the a lot of people will come to a trainer for. The beauty is that on that training journey, you can get them out of that mindset of the focus

being weight loss and into, whoa, look at how incredible my body is. And again, Andy, I'm sure you'll know when you've got someone in the gym and they're lifting for the, not listening for the first time, but they've been training with you for a while and they start to lift some heavy weights and they're like, wait, I just did that. That's awesome. And then they have this completely different appreciation for weights, weightlifting, what it does for them, what it does for their body. So again, it depends on the individual where they are on their training journey. But a beginner, we're still going light load and higher repetition because it's important to build that up, build that foundation. But then eventually we're going to move to a lower rep range and a higher level of resistance. So they can't achieve the same thing then. You would get different results if you just continued with the higher rep range, with the lower weights, than lifting heavy. Physiologically, there's different things to your body. Eventually, eventually they're going to plateau. They're only going to get a certain amount of response from the higher, from the higher repetitions and the lower loads. They'll just get used to it and then there'll be no stimulus. So they'll be, you know,

they'll kind of plateau out. They'll need more. At Desjardin, we speak business. We speak Startup Funding and Comprehensive Game Plans. We've mastered made-to-measure growth and expansion advice, and we can talk your ear-off about transferring your business when the time comes. Because at Desjardin Business, we speak the same language you do. Business. So join the more than 400,000 Canadian entrepreneurs who already count on us, and contact Desjardin today.

We'd love to talk, business. So, Andy, Jocelyn mentioned there that there's a feature. among women that become like Arnie if they lift heavy weights. We speak to many women in the women's health audience, and we hear it time and time again. I don't want to bulk up, quote, unquote. Is that even possible for a woman? Yeah, it's one of those things that's been around for a long time,

and I hope we can sort of banish the myth, but it can take a bit of work. So it's very hard to build a considerable, amount of muscle. It's a very long, slow process of that stimulus repair, stimulus repair. It's not to say you can't build a good amount of muscle, but it's a really long journey. And we're talking years, not weeks and months. First of all, a lot of the strength training adaptations we're talking about, so we're sort of talk about the body adapting to these stimulus. A lot of those adaptations aren't just muscular. They're going to be. So not just the inner

muscle that's changing. We're changing our, effectively, it's a neurological change, our central nervous system, to a point our DNA, everything changes around the fact that we start lifting weights. It's not just going into muscles all the time. So we're lifting heavier weights. Our brains having to turn on more muscles through the entire body. That does a lot of really cool things just beyond building muscle. So I think what happens a lot of time is we react to very short-term changes of the muscles. So when you train a muscle, we said that Justin mentioned that you make tiny little micro tears to the muscle. What happens when we create any kind of damage to their body? We inflame. We send more blood to the area. So we're inflamed under a kind of a period

time 24, 70 to 2 hours after. Also, the muscles will adapt to these stresses. So if I, if my body knows, or if I'm training a woman and we're doing a repeated balance of strength training, and strength training uses primarily glycogen, stored sugar as a fuel source. We're going to store a little bit more glycogen in the muscle, and we're going to store a little bit more water in the muscle because we have to, because that's going to be needed to continuously contract the muscle over and over again.

So we've got short-term changes in blood flow based on inflammation. We've got short-term changes in storage of energy in a muscle, which can make a muscle temporarily look a bit bigger. So when you notice, like, weekly changes or daily changes, changes in muscle belly size. It's not muscle being built. It is just short-term change or just short-term adaptations as the body is getting used to what you're doing. And the truth is losing muscles not actually that hard. So if you were ever to say, let's say we were to build too much muscle, which I've never had anyone say to it to me, it's not necessarily the hardest thing to then

lose that muscle if it was seriously a problem. I think there's a really important thing to know is that it just takes, if I'm working with clients, it's a long, slow slog of a process, but it is very easy to get a bit disheartened by just very, very quick changes to the body as we do it. Andy, do women, as they get slightly older and they start experiencing perimenopausal symptoms and therefore have dropping hormones, etc. Find it harder to build muscle? It is, as you get older, yes, it's a little bit harder to build muscle. That doesn't mean it means it's even more important to do it. As we get older, it's harder to put mechanical load through tissue.

We're not as able to recover quite as rapidly. But there's even more reason to put tension through joints because we want to continue to build. It's not just about muscles. It is about the tendon health, the connected tissue health, and all the things around that as well. So it's one of those things that you just, it's hopefully when you start weight trading,

it stays part of your life forever because it's scalable. It's good to do. You can kind of watch up your numbers on your workouts improve. So you always want to be on a scale of trying to get a little bit stronger, trying to improve the resilience of your body. Jocelyn, you mentioned earlier how important strength training is an improving bone density. Now that becomes even more important as a woman gets older

because as their hormones drop, their bone density becomes compromising that are at risk of osteoporosis. Yeah. Yeah. And again, just another reason five million and ten to continue, you know, strength training. But, you know, even if we think just even standing up walking, if somebody's not doing that in their, I don't know, 40s, 50s, 60s, even that in itself will be a start to, building that bone density back, but then that just multiplies when you start lifting weights, when you start, you know, adding that load. So it is, as Andy says, it's just, it's so important throughout your whole life to be able to do that, particularly for things like bone density, you know. So if we're looking at someone's well-rounded fitness week, what should that look like? what percentage of cardio should there be alongside weight training?

I would always say something like, again, because it depends where you are in your training journey, but something like one to two strength sessions a week, one to two cardiovascular sessions a week, always making time again just for that, you know, putting in some mobility work, whether that's added onto your strength sessions, whether that's added on to your, before or after your cardiovascular work. I think that sometimes people can get really caught up in, you know, I have to do this amount of training, or it could be like a six-day week, potentially twice a day, fine. If you're an athlete and competing and doing all of that stuff, great.

but you also should pay attention to, you know, you can train for the amount of time that you can recover on top of that. So I always say recover harder than you train, particularly for those people who are doing a lot. Because again, if you've got a perfect and inverted commas training week, but you are not recovering well by getting enough sleep, by staying hydrated, by trying to, you know, manage your stress levels, you know, nutrition, all of those pieces. It kind of doesn't fully negate the training that you're doing, but you're just not going to get the same results that you're looking for. So I would say once, two, a week of each of those things, but also if you're somebody who is high stress, got a high stress job, you know, isn't sleeping well, you've really got to do what your body

is going to be able to manage in that week. And does doing a lot of cardio compromise? muscle mass. It can do. Yeah. I mean, if you're, well, depends on, so if you're somebody who wants to, and again, Andy, I'm sure you've had these clients who want to do all the things all at once. They want to run a marathon. They want to get as strong as they can. They want to do everything. And you're like, okay, cool. But those are extreme cases. So it depends on your training goal. Yes, if you are trying to build, you know, pure strength, doing tons and tons and tons and tons of cardio is going to affect that. But I think, you know, potentially for most of your listeners, again, if they have that balance of one to two strength sessions a week, they're looking after, you know, they're doing some cardiovascular work once or twice a week at least, then it should be fine. Sometimes we can go too much into the extremes on what would affect it.

but for the most part, keeping those ratios would be good. So let's talk about nutrition. Andy, I know you're hugely experienced in this area. And it's very difficult to give nutrition and advice to the masses because it's all very personal and tailored to the individual. But could you give an ideal sort of diet? Somebody should be following if they want a burglary muscle mass. Is it as simple as protein, protein, protein?

There definitely isn't, obviously, there's not a perfect diet. Nutrition is like it's a minefield. There is no one-size-fits-all. It's a very hard one to answer. Like Justin says, it all goes back down to it's this recovery piece. So we think of training, we think of nutrition, we forget about recovery, and nutrition really falls into that recovery piece. So we are created as similar to adapt to.

And in that adaptation, that getting stronger, that's where we use nutrition, sleep and other things. So it's really important to have a nutrition mindset when it comes to. a recovery mindset when it comes to nutrition. The industry seems to have very much gone in the direction of let's really simplify nutrition down to, it's just energy balance, it's just energy in versus energy out. And that is a real oversimplification of what's going on in the body. So what's important to understand is that you can, your body's given you very clear

indicators to how you're recovering from things like muscle saunas, readiness for exercise, mood, sleep, cognitive function, all these things. So if you've got very obvious markers going on, start to listen to your body and make sure that you're not feeling like you're really flagging in training, that you're getting like brain flog fog whilst in the middle of the day, because these are all kind of key markers that there could be some sort of nutritional deficiency in the sense of you're not eating enough.

I think most people are now aware that protein is important for recovery. Protein effectively is going to give you the building blocks for repair. and that's not just muscle repair, that's all tissue repair in the body. Again, I don't think we have to go absolutely crazy with protein and take it to very, very, very high numbers. It's just important to have an adequate amount of protein throughout the course of day. So like three servings of protein throughout a course a day from either animal produce or plant-based produce. As much as I think it's a very broad statement to talk about this idea of intuitive eating, I do think it's important to know a little bit about what you're eating from an energy perspective.

So sort of like being quizzed, if looking back a packet, to see how many calories in the foods, I think it's a minefield to go down into too heavily for the wrong person. So I'm sort of skirting around the answer because it's a very hard one to answer. Yes, prioritized protein. Think about recovery. Listen to your body. Have, again, a performance mindset, both from recovery, but also it's not just a about doing loads of work in training, burning calories,

under-eating or eating at an energy deficit to try and lose weight all the time. It can be about are you fuelled for your workouts? Are you able to perform at your highest level? Both at your job, if you're a mum, in the gym, all these really important things. And then maybe just modify the nutrition accordingly. Now you mentioned calorie deficit. Even though we are trying to move the conversation away from that, there's nothing wrong with wanting to lose.

weight and feel healthier in yourself. So if somebody is following a calorie control diet, is it possible to build lean muscle when you are eating less calories than you are expending? Theoretically, yes it is, because the body has energy reserves. So it's not like your body is ever running out of energy. The problem will be if you're running a continuous calorie deficit, are you going to have the energy to train to be able to actually create that stimulus? That becomes. the overall or the underiron pitchers. So if you've been in a calorie deficit for a while,

and as you train, training gets harder. When you first start doing push-ups, they're hard, but then after 10 weeks, you can do more push-ups. So therefore, that was harder than I appreciate you couldn't do one at the beginning, but now you're doing five. Five push-ups is harder than one push-up as far as what's happening to the body. So as you train, we're getting stronger, push your body harder, get able to create more tissue breakdown.

there are more need to repair. So all the time you're pushing your body hard, you're asking more demands of it and you're 10 weeks into a calorie deficit. You're going to have serious problems with maintaining that energy deficit and have good quality workout. So there has to be a situation

where potentially as training gets harder and harder, you do allow yourself to have a few more calories. You can organise your nutrition to make sure that you're fueling yourself before a workout that could be eating the night before for a morning training session, eating a good amount of breakfast for a lunchtime training session. But yeah, it does become very obvious. You start butting up your nutrition against your training,

and they become two very limiting factors. And if muscle, increases in muscle getting stronger is the goal, then you might get away with it for a bit, but continuing it for a while could be problematic. Right. Well, we're coming to the end of our time today. The name of this podcast is going for goal. so I'm going to put you both on the spot.

Jocelyn, what is your goal for 2021? Mine is actually to ask for more help. I'm not very asking for help, which I discovered when I was on somebody else's podcast, and I said, when was the last time you asked for help? And I said, sorry, what? I'm not sure I have. And so actually, you find yourself in this position

where, you know, one of my whole things is, you know, be the change you want to see industry so you just keep going and da-da-da-da-da. But actually, I think that I will just be, you know, looking to other people more just to say, I need some help with this. May I have some help? So that's, that's my goal for 2021. That's a really valid, worthy goal. Andy, you had a bit more time. So what's your goal? Mine's going to be really straightforward because I've got a very obvious goal. I'm going to keep mine totally on topic of strength training as well. There's a certain exercise that I've never been able to do and I got very frustrated in a CrossFit session

that I couldn't do it. It's called a razor curl. I had a bit of a sulk and was like, why can't I do this? I've been trying for 20 or years and then I caught myself sort of like looking in a mirror ago and you've never practiced that exercise and one of the things I always tell my clients is just like be patient, trust in the process. Be patient, trust in the process. So I am going to be very, very patient because I am nowhere near where I need to be at it. It's going to do nothing as far as increasing muscle mass that is literally just a hamstring strength exercise. You know how competitive I am, so I'm going to have to go up.

What's yours, Claire? Oh, mine. Yeah, that's awesome. Do you know what? Mine is to start wearing makeup again and wash my hair because I'm just working from home the whole time and my self-respect of going out of the window. I just, I'm normally quite glamorous, you know.

So mine is just to be. grown up again, you know, be a gorgeous, sassy business woman, not sitting in my house, in my car. I have taken to, I've started getting dressed up. I've started getting dressed up, I've started getting dressed up to go to Liddle these days, just anything to kind of like wear jeans in the per and a jumper. Liddle is now out-out, you know, so, you know, the supermarket is out-out, yeah, yeah, go big. Well, roll on June the 21st. You've been listening to Andy Vincent and Jocelyn Thompson rule in conversation with women's health editor-in-chief Claire Sanderson. Some super strong goals at the end there. Remember if you've got a different one in mind and you want to know how to achieve it, let us know and we could be helping you get there with the help of our experts in an upcoming episode.

As ever, if you want to comment on anything that we've raised in this episode, get in touch, all the details of how are in the show notes. And final last from me, if you're loving the pod, please do leave us a review on Apple Podcast as it really helps new listeners find us. That's all from going for goal this week. We'll be back next Tuesday. Bye.