KGCI: Real Estate on Air - Discipline, Strategy and Market Adaptation with Caleb Pearson

Episode Date: June 20, 2025

You're listening to the Coach Code podcast, and this is your host, John Kitchens. Join me as we unlock your greatest potential, collapse time, reveal your blind spots, and become the best version of yourself. Hey, everybody, before we jump into today's conversation, just want to throw out if you're struggling, really scratching your head and wondering what the next step is for you and your business, just jump on a call. Just go to coachcodecall.com, book a call, and let one of our advisors, walk you through and give you a little bit of clarity and some next action steps heading into

this uneasy, uncertain market. Book that call today. What's good? See that intro video is Mike. Some rock stars hanging out and man, I appreciate you, appreciate you jumping in and really looking forward to diving in. And, you know, I always kind of use your start and the things that you guys did, the discipline,

the process, the hard work, because that's really what, that's all that matters, right? And how you guys executed that for years, years.

And I think there's just so much, and especially with where the market and the market conditions are at, the climate that we're all in and we're all going into. if you have kind of what you have and what you built and the way you guys approached and attacked every day, it doesn't matter what the market's doing.

And we're going back to those habits, the 730 habits again. We got away from them as everybody got seasoned. And now we've got a couple new guys. And you almost have to. It's getting hard. Is it seasoned or is it you get to a certain point? and it's kind of some inertia that causes some complacency. Like what do you think it was to where maybe, you know,

why you guys maybe kind of got, got away from it or, you know, most people do kind of break away from those success habits. Yeah. So we, I mean, you know our old routine was everybody get in the office at like 7.15. We start sales training from 7.30 to 8. And we did it for five or six years.

And I had the same agents. for, and I still have a lot of them for, call it seven, eight, the longest one's been with us for 11 years. So I think their skill levels got to a certain point to where I thought they were sharp enough. And then the market got really easy. And we built a big enough pipeline to where we didn't have to hit the same type of leads anymore. Lazziness kicked in a little bit as well. But now, I mean, you just, you can't be lazy. Transactions are down by 30%. in the market. Listings are starting to sit.

It actually takes some skill to move product and get sellers on board these days. Yeah, I agree. And, you know, you guys are in the Charleston market. So being able to be 30%. And, you know, I think that's kind of what we're seeing, right? Anywhere from 25 to 50 plus percent across the country, just kind of dependent. I think inventory levels. I mean, in some markets,

they're less than even they were last year, even with rates. I mean, you know, obviously every market is different and, you know, unique to its own, to itself. But, you know, you got to know those numbers. So getting back to, right, knowing what you guys were doing, the fundamentals that were working, what is that going to look like for the company moving forward? What it used to look like. I mean, get in sales training 730 to 8, hit the phones, knock out at least $200 a day.

And then if you do $200 a day and you've got any bit of skill and you're fairly trained, you're going to do deals and you're going to make money. So just getting back to the basics. Yeah. So, you know, those basics, those fundamentals and those are the things within your control. Right. So being able to do that. And, you know, you guys were running and gun in.

I mean, not really, not everybody was really tied down, didn't have littles. So obviously life has happened. Do you see that that could be a little bit of a constraint or that really, you just got to restructure your days for success and this is how it has to be? Yeah, I mean, not really. I mean, yeah, none of us were married back then. None of us had kids, but we do now and everybody can still work that same schedule. I mean, you can work, you can build your schedule out and then you can obviously build your life around that schedule.

And if I can get my guys to just stick to it, I know it works. I mean, I've done it in a good market, a bad market. I mean, I got started in 2011 and the market was, that was kind of a bottom. And the market was terrible. So then it just got easier and easier and easier. Like 2019, 20, 21, 22 were all just on fire and you could trip and fall into a real estate transaction, but that's changing. Right. So for you, and I think this is good, you know, just kind of these agents and CEO conversations is why I'm so, so excited to have you on

because, you know, just the evolution of you coming in, right, starting out and just being hungry and surrounding yourself with people that were just as hungry and really creating that, you know, hey, we're pushing it each and every day, you know, hitting the gym. You know, hitting the gym getting in sales training boom we go we start we start you know the outbound reach you know proactive reach within within our control and you know looking at kind of like even Hermoses you know core four on the lead side the cold outbound is essentially what what you guys built the whole business on as as things have changed over the decade um you know being built on that outbound prospect side of things and just hitting the phones and making dials. Obviously, connect rate is a little bit

different. What are you guys seeing, you know, to help increase conversations? Because not only is it dials, but I mean, it has to be a contact ratio. Yeah. I mean, so when I first started, it was like cold calling heavy, heavy, heavy. And then obviously the just the world has changed. Text message is key now. So the amount of text messages were getting out in a week. and then social media just trying to find these people and see if you've got any mutual friends with them if you know they're a hot lead and using that the backdoor through social media whether it's LinkedIn Facebook Instagram I mean it's just how many conversations can you have you know these people came into your website click and they're clicking around on houses they

have a little bit of interest at some point in buying houses and then you know it's a fisbo canceled or an expired they've raised their hand and said they want to sell. So like how can I talk to that person? And I know if I can talk to them, I've got a good chance of getting in the door. Yeah. So, so Caleb, you know, you look at it. And if we just kind of break down, we can talk about the evolution and kind of where where your growth went, which, which was one of the key ways to to grow to grow any business is you, you focused on per transaction value. Right. So you understood what your time was worth and then made some strategic decisions for you. and really understanding that your business is just a vehicle in pursuit of creating other

opportunities and other vehicles for you to find freedom. Yeah. Back to traffic, right? So if we go traffic conversion fulfillment on the traffic side of things, you mentioned a couple of things, right? And so as I think we start to see the emergence of properties that are coming to market that are failing to sell, as you start to see even some of these, you know, people that have the belief they can do it all.

on their own and in being able to really who can we connect with using event-based calling, all of those type of things from a traffic side. Like where are the hooks? What are the offers? What are you guys seeing anticipating, especially a market like Charleston that you're moving into to get people even engaged or interested in wanting to talk to you? Yeah. I mean, I'll tell you the cash offer program is working.

it at least gets you through the door. Now, do the people end up selling to us the majority of the time? No, but they end up listing the house. So I'd say that one's one of our best ones right now. And the conversation is simple. It's just you get in the house and it's, hey, Mr. Mrs. Seller, we offer multiple options. Some sellers, we go into the house and they want to turn the house upside down,

shake every penny out of it. If you want to go that route, you need to put it on the open market. Or here's our quick, pick your closing date, no closing cost, no real estate commissions. Here's your offer and you're out of here when you want. And you can leave behind whatever you want. And you'd be surprised at how many people do take that option and sell you the house. And they know they're taking a haircut as far as price.

Do you, so what where is that message getting out, right? Like what platforms are working well to get that message in front of those type of motivated. And I love what you're saying here too because. This is really important, I think, for everybody listening in, is that if you could zero in, right, you had to pick one, right? Who am I going after? What is that ideal avatar? I think from a production site, it's motivated sellers, period. Yeah.

It's the industry of distress, which is motivated seller. So what platform? Like, is it all platforms? You get the message out in many ways as you can. Like, where is that message resonating as far as connecting to the eyeballs of the distress motivated seller. So we hit you from land, A or C. I mean, we hit you from every angle. It's calling, texting, email, mass email blasts, email drips, direct mail. We do pretty much anything except for billboards, radio, TV. We haven't ventured into the high spend marketing. So are you just playing

off of data or are you throwing hooks out there with ads like you said you mentioned direct mail like getting people to raise their hand opt into something or are you just like finding data and just doing a lot of calling into the data pools data yeah and and so I think going that data route being able to to really target who your who your ideal client now explain you know your strategy your take going after the motivated distressed cash office offer type of, type of opportunity. I mean, our strategy is to buy it first.

It's just cleaner, easier. We make more profit when we flip the house. So I don't know how much everybody knows about our businesses and how they work. Yeah, share that a little bit because, you know, I was kind of leading into the evolution. And I think, you know, this is important for everybody to listen to because you're in the trenches, you're slinging houses. You're getting in front of motivated sellers, motivated buyers, had other agents that were

slinging, doing deals. We had one agent that we identified. that was just a rock star on the phones. We just kept them in the ISA role. Like we just kept going. And your whole model was really anchored around, you know, understanding the core four from Hermosi, the cold outbound reach. Right.

You build your whole empire off of that. Yeah, and it's still pretty heavy. So I started off. It was just me. Got it into the mastermind with you guys. Y'all taught me pretty much anything and everything that I know. But it was heavy outbound and heavy discipline. Like just hitting calls every single day,

really seven days a week. for like the first five years. Then I had, we added some agents that came on. They were mostly buyers agents. Then we added inside sales guys. And I was running probably 20, 30 listing appointments a month.

I mean, I was just beating the streets. And I worked my tail off. But it was a lot. It was mostly my time, my energy, my efforts, and a lot of hours.

So then I started meeting with all these sellers. And I figured out, call it two to five of those 30 people a month that I was meeting with, were just super motivated and didn't want to list the house and would have rather just sold it to an investor cash. So we started selling houses to like American homes rent, some of the funds, a couple flippers in town. And I'll never forget, I made a guy like $100,000 in about six minutes one day. And I'm like, shit, I'm sitting on the wrong. I remember, I remember you and I having that conversation. And you're like, bro, like,

I remember you were like, am I missing something? Because I can sling $10,000 deals at a time and do 10 of them or I can do one and make the same amount of money. Yeah. And now I'm all about like working less and working smarter and just, I mean, if I could sell four $10 million houses a year, I would, I would do that versus just getting swall over and over again. All right. But yeah, so I made that guy about 100 grand in a couple minutes.

And I'm like, all right, I'm in the wrong seat here. And I know I'm making American homes for rent. bitch. They're buying these houses at like 50, 60 cents on the dollar and I'm making a three to six thousand dollar commission. Like, how do I get in that seat? So I joined another mastermind that had all the best, the majority of the best single family fix and flippers in the country. And then we built a fix and flip business to where we'd fix and flip and wholesale deals. We'll do about 75 to 100 deals a year on that side of the business. And then we transitioned into buying mobile home parks and apartment complexes about five or six years ago because I was going

to those masterminds and I was seeing, all right, who were the wealthiest people in the room and who have the best lifestyles? And it was the multifamily and the mobile home park syndicators or owners. So we started taking all the cash that were generating from the retail brokerage team and the fix and flip team and using that as down payments on on apartment complexes and mobile home parks. which in turn those assets offset most of the taxes from those other two businesses. So it's like a circle of how the businesses work, but they all complement each other. Does that make sense? It makes so much sense.

And I, you know, I want to, you know, just kind of highlight some things that you said there because it's super, super important for people listening in. And this is where they get in trouble is they don't have that one core pillar that's generating the resources and the opportunities to help fund these other vehicles that build wealth. Yeah. And I think the more that people, because like you have this machine, right, and it's just going. And then you're providing, you know, the fruit that it provides in taking that and putting it into these vehicles like you're talking about, apartment complexes and mobile home parks,

and those become wealth building vehicles. But you also said something there that I think a lot of people missed. You evaluated it on two factors. And I think this is important for everybody to get really, really, really clear on. And especially where we are right now, because I think we're in a really cool, creative, how do I want to design this to be proactive moving into this climate? in the market that we're in is that you said who's making the most money and who has the best lifestyle.

And it has to check both boxes. And I think that's where a lot of people get tripped up and they're like, man, make the most money. And then they go in that rabbit hole and they think they're going to commit to it. And then they get down the path and they're like, oh, this sucks. Let me back pedal a little bit. So how come that was so important for you? So I got a had a mentor one of the other masters.

So dude, I've been like four or five masterminds at a time. At any given time. And one of the guys that ran that mastermind, we did a whole vision exercise and it was building how do I want my day to look? How do I want my life to look? How do I want my lifestyle? How much money do I need to make to create that lifestyle?

And then how much of my time do I want to give up to have that lifestyle? And you just, You're the Imagineer. You imagine it. And then let's figure out how to build it. So we imagined it, put it all in paper. And then it's like, all right. Now, how do we take the businesses that we have to serve that lifestyle? Now, it's not quite to where I want it to be quite yet, but I mean, I live a pretty good lifestyle. And we've got some really good people on our team, awesome staff. That it's been fun to build it for myself and also to help them build good quality lifestyle and reach their visions as well. You know, so I'm glad you said that, right? You know, let's hit on the vision a little bit more. And was it, was it a little bit of trial and error for you to get to that point of what you wanted to look like? Or was it always something that you were kind of seeking? You're like, you know, man, I want to make as much money as I can with the least amount of effort, time and energy on my part, as well as build wealth. Or was there something, something that just kind of like, ah, you know, I can keep grinding, but I ain't. get nowhere. Yes. Is there something that just kind of woke you up? It used to be make as much money as you possibly could.

And, man, we, and scale, scale, scale, scale, scale. And we scaled up to like 25 people at one time. And I wouldn't make it any more money. And I hated it. I had people problems. And then we scaled it back down. And just we just had a bunch of warriors. Like Brandon, who you know has been with me forever.

Justin, same way. My staff, Shea, Mark. have always been with me for a long time like it's i just enjoy it better with my core group um that's loyal that's fun that's trained um it just it was just it was an easier lifestyle and then i said all right how much money do i really need to make to fulfill that lifestyle that i want and it's not three four million dollars a year i mean could i go out and chase three four million dollars a year yeah i could sure i really i don't really want to anymore more. So I figured out what that number was and I figured out what type of efforts I need to be to get

there. And honestly, dude, when I backed up and laid off the gas a little bit and started looking at bigger opportunities, I actually started making more money. That's amazing, isn't it? And I think that's, you know, where a lot of people miss, right? They just get in and they just get going. Like you said, hey, I mean, I just need to sling more houses. But you can only get to a certain point where, you know, the returns are diminished and you only have so much effort and so much time. And, you know, the way to think about this is that if everybody's shoveling dirt with their hands, you can only shovel so much dirt. Yeah. However, if you step back, like you said, this is, this is such a great point.

If you step back and you went and invented the shovel and then you showed up to the same dirt pit with the shovel, you just, you just crushed everybody on the amount of dirt that you can move. That's exactly right. it's once I stopped and stepped back, I didn't realize how many big opportunities were coming across my plate and I didn't have the time to focus on them or even capitalize on them because I was too in the weeds. So then once I stepped back and started looking at, all right, how would this look? How much of this of my time would this take me to get to get the deal to the finish line? And then boom, you've got a million dollars or plus of equity and a deal and you've actually built wealth where I could have never done that when I'm.

I was running 30 appointments a week. I mean, I'm off. You don't have time. No chance. And then, you know, you start to make sweetheart deals just to give you some sanity, to give you some peace. And you're making those sweetheart deals with people on your team. Yeah.

And that's where then, you know, you're buying some freedom. You're buying some time. However, that hurts the business. And not able to, to really. really truly run it like a business. I want you to touch because, you know, a lot of people start out on this path with with friends, people that they've known, family members, right? And, you know, trying to run a family is messy. And so we always want to try to structure it and run it as a team. How have you been able to because you mentioned that core that have been

with you for so long. A lot of them were friends and family starting out. How have you been able over a decade to make that dynamic continue to work? That's a good question because I remember y'all warning me. We were in St. Thomas at one of our masterminds and you said, you know what? The biggest plus and the biggest benefit of the biggest threat to your business is your family because I had all family and friends working with me and they still work with me today. knock on wood. And I did bring my brother up earlier as well. He's been with me for 10 years.

I think just setting boundaries on how things will look, being transparent with them about, hey, here's what the true numbers of the business look like. Justin and I actually started the home buying business together. And he realized that he just wasn't built for, he didn't want to own a business. He just wanted to sell.

So I think everybody just got in the right seats. They're all happy with where their setup is now. And just one of the things that you taught me is doing one-on-ones every quarter and sitting down with them to make sure everybody's heads, seeing where everybody's heads at and everybody's, we're all still working in congruence and rolling in the same direction. And it's been great. Dude, I wouldn't trade it for anything.

No, I mean, what you've got is really, really awesome, really cool. and I've got a young couple in Idaho. Anthony, he reminds me so much of you. And, you know, getting his business dialed in because he's more about life and freedom. You know, they've got a young family and, you know, wants to spend more time in the sun than in the cold. So, you know, splitting time in, you know, in another another. state also big on the investment side of things right you know utilizing your business for multiple pillars that can you know get into vehicles that provide real wealth um and in running into

that juggle too right with the family and things and one of the conversations that we've we've been having and i've been pushing on them and i think this took you you you a minute right this is where you kind of you step back man what's the vision and i You know, one of the things that really resonated with something Ed Milet said not too long ago, he's like, man, you have to make sure that your vision is so big that the people around you that are a part of, they want to be a part of what you're doing because they believe that they can achieve their dreams within your vision. Yeah. And the point is their vision too.

Like it can't be only about your vision. Like you need to sit down with all your people and know what their goals are. every year. Because it just can't be, it definitely can't be about you. Because at some point, everybody's going to think you're the one making all the money and having all the success and your names at the top of it. But like, it needs to be about them too and figuring out what they want. And can you help them, can you get them to where they want to be within your organization?

And if not, sometimes people will spread their wings and go do their own thing. Yeah. Yeah. And I think you can't hate, hate on anybody for doing that. No. I mean, if you know their dreams, right? And you really step back and you're like, man, I just, I can't create that opportunity for you.

So I can help you. And I remember, you know, Coach Cliff. I remember Coach Cliff, you know, he was, he was coaching with, you know, me and Wally and with Jay and Michael at NAA. And I remember on one of those one-on-one sessions, he told the boys, right? He's like, man, I want to make a million bucks a year. And I remember having the conversation with Jay after. And he's like, man, I just, I don't have a vehicle that can create that for him.

And this was prior to EXP. And then look at, look how the tides have turned, right? You know, I mean, who's, who's the sponsor that brought us all in? Cliff Freeman. So I didn't know that. But you look at that, right? And I think when you have great people and you try, where I think, where I think, Joel Purso shared this with me and he has this,

he has this belief. And to your point with what you just said is that you can design your business with your people and you can either help them if they want to spread their wings and you don't have an opportunity really for them if their dreams are that big, then you can either make it a divorce or you can make it a graduation. And that's just been so, it's such a great reminder, right? You know, because you're building a vehicle that's helping you get to your freedom. And yes, it does provide opportunities and helps others.

But at some point, if somebody's aspirations of dreams are bigger than that, don't hold on to them that causes a divorce. Let them go and just know it's a graduation. Sure. And you can't be, again, you can't be mad at them. I mean, I had Amanda who was with me forever. You know she was there when you coached me a long time ago. She just left about two months ago.

Was a great, loyal agent for a long time. And obviously she got into flipping some homes and just had bigger aspirations and spread her wings. I couldn't be mad at her. And Brandon, who's been with me forever, I mean, he, obviously he knows he could go do his own thing if he wanted to. But he likes that the team supports everything that he doesn't want to do. He makes what he wants to make out of it.

And then my goal is to continually to educate these guys. and give them other opportunities outside of just selling real estate or educational on how to do things to where they can build their income and build their wealth and leave a legacy for their family, build the quality of life they want. Like that's what I try to provide. Yeah. And, you know, allow them to find that freedom within, right, for themselves. And it's so, it's so, so cool.

So looking at these agents that are, you know, coming out of kind of these unicorn years. And I think for you, if you didn't have that experience in 11, 12, 13 coming in. And what's great is that you've got key people that rode that time with you that understand that foundation and those habits. So being able to come back together, getting back into that, you know, into that routine and those rituals together, right? And that's what it takes. It's just, you know, like it's just the whole thing, right?

Like you're not going to quit smoking if all you're doing is hanging around smoke. Yeah. And so you want to reestablish that environment. What would you tell to agents that are, because I believe this is right. I believe if you're back on your heels, if you're waiting for business to come to you, you're going to be out of the business. You probably won't make it to the summertime. So it's really interesting because I have people that were with us back in 2011,

12, 13, 14, when things were really hard. And those guys are coming to me saying, Caleb, this doesn't feel right. Like, I don't think the new guys understand because they came in when everything was peaches and cream and everything was easy. They're like, I don't think they understand what's coming or how hard things can get. And they never had to have those habits that the guys in 11, 12, 13 had. So those guys, it's interesting. I can watch them and their habits have like their discipline is back.

their actions are double, triple what they were. Like those guys have a little bit of fear in them and a little bit of extra grit. And the newer guys just haven't, they haven't seen it. So I don't think they're fully aware of how much the market can just go whoop and turn upside down on his head. And the buyers disappear. The buyers, you look to the side and you're like, where are they? They're just gone in the market. And I feel like that could happen.

Yeah. I agree with you. And I think it's just, it's just a weird mix, right? It's just a weird, weird mix of combination of inventory, interest rates, just uncertainty, political climate. There's just so much nonsense. And there's just so much stuff that's making it tough to kind of grasp on to. And so I think getting back into getting back into the fundamentals of the doing the things within your control is the only way to go. Yeah. Only way to go. Yeah.

And real estate agents as a whole have never been known for being good money managers either. And I think people have had such high incomes for the last four or five years that it's, It's hard to take your, like if you've got a monthly spend of $30,000 to $50,000 a month, it's hard to bring that back down to $10,000 a month when the income is out there. So I think you're right. You're going to see a lot of people get out of this business if the music stops. But I tell you something that's interesting that I think is changing is information travels so fast now and fear can spread through the market so fast.

I think the light switch can go off fast and I think it can go right back on fast too. like when COVID hit I thought we were doomed and the lights turned off for like three weeks and then once everybody found out that people were back out buying and rates were still low and everybody got over the whole fear of it it was like the gasoline got poured on the market I think we're going to see some some sharp turns here over the next 24 months it's a great point it really is and and you know my my thoughts and I would love your your your thoughts on it, you know, as an agent that might be, oh, shit, you know, I don't know what to do, right? I didn't get to ride through this. And if I'm trying to ride alone, would you tell those

agents, hey man, don't get out. Get aligned with with somebody like yourself that has a proactive team approach that provides a high level of accountability and in guidance and structure to go have those conversations. Instead of exiting the business, go have the conversations to align and join with others. I think that's what they need to do. Whether hire a coach, spend the money on education, go join a team or get in some sort of mastermind. Because you need to be a, you got, people are going to sharpen the tool. But yeah, definitely don't quit. I mean, go find somebody that's been through it. Then ask them how they got through it. Yeah. Because those people would love to help, especially the new guys. Yeah. It's a great, it's a great, such a great point. What would you tell just through your

learning experience maybe to help somebody that's kind of in the situation to help collapse time as they're proactive, they are going to open up opportunities, right? They're going to talk to people that are in a distressed, super motivated situation. What would you tell those agents as they start to have those type of conversations of how to, to deal. with it? Do they just kind of get through it and help them the best they can? Do they, do they try to find somebody to partner with, maybe get a piece of that opportunity? Like, what, what are you telling? What would you tell agents that not on your team, right? Because you have a process. They know, they have an option. But as these agents are coming into this market, they've never

really had this option. Now they are. They're going to be more, more and more frequent. How would you tell them to approach it if they've never gone down? on the, you know, getting a piece or getting in it on the investment side of the deal themselves. I mean, I don't know that right now is the best time to get in on the investment side of the business and delve into that unless they're fairly liquid, just because I think there's a lot more risk in the market right now. But I just think locking arms with somebody that's been through it. And we're not even, we're not recruiting. We're not hiring new people. We're not bringing on any new people. We're not interviewing, but there are people in town that are, and there's people

in every market that are. Go find that person. I mean, a portion of something is better than a whole nothing. If you got to bring somebody in that's been through it, even if you get someone that you don't even know how to help as far as you can't figure out why your listing is selling, I've got probably, I bet I had five agents in the last 30 days have called me to bring in to co-list stuff because they can't figure out why their house isn't showing or why it's not. selling like reach out to me reach out to somebody that you know that does well and that's been through it and they can probably help you get to the finish line because I would much these are two million dollar listings they would rather take 30 grand half of the 60 grand commission than

nothing and get fine that's right no I love that such a such a great point such a great reminder and yeah I mean there's always a move and I think for a lot of people in in the market right now that especially haven't gone through things like this that a lot of people, you know, they've listed houses that have all sold, right? They're in a situation where they have active inventory that's not selling. And it's like a head scratcher. It's like, that's a damn good property. I do not know why it's not selling. That's right. And dude, it's like not only have they always sold, they've sold in a week. So they don't even have to, they don't understand like what it's like to call that seller

every week and let them know how many clicks they got. Here's what's sold in your neighborhood. communicate over a 30, 60, 90, 120 day, 150 day period of bringing bad news to the seller, but keeping them in the loop. Like they have no idea how that, I mean, my, I used to in my calendar Thursdays were my price reduction slash seller conversation days. And those days, I haven't had to have those in years. Yeah. Yeah.

Those are coming back. Those are usually the heavy drinking days after that. It was, it felt like I was going to the boxing gym in the morning. Yes. But I would do it and I did it every Thursday and those days are coming back. Communication is going to be the number one reason why you're going to get fired as a real estate agent. Especially as a listing agent, but listings are key. It's in a market like this.

So people are going to have to get better at communicating and staying in touch because they just haven't had you. So I love that you said that. I want you to unpack and define communication because just because you talk to them, doesn't mean you're communicating to them. So like if you were to create the communication checklist of checking in with clients to where you're not going to get fired, what are like the things every time they have that conversation, they need to be checking the box mentally that they covered these points every time. Dude, it's easy.

And there's so much data out there. Every Monday, reach out every Monday or Tuesday, really Monday, because winter seller is the most disappointed after the weekend when their house didn't sell or didn't show. So every Monday, making the phone call, telling them what's sold in the neighborhood or what sold that's around them that's comparable, send it to them, explain why that probably sold and why yours didn't. How many showings were in that price range in showing time. That's easy for you to pull. Just the more data that you can put in front of them, is the market going up or is it going down? Send them a graph.

I mean, that data is easy to pull from the MLS as well. people make decisions based on fear or pleasure. And if the market's going down, they're going to make a decision based on fear. Are they going to chase the market all the way down or are they going to get ahead of it and just get it off the table and cash in chips? Because everybody's sitting on a lot of equity right now. Yeah. And I think, too, you know, the other point in the communication, and this is super, super critical to remember. And I think a lot of agents didn't even understand how important it was when you,

you have that initial conversation to dive really deep on the real motivation, the real goal of why they're wanting to sell or buy, because buyers and sellers have selective amnesia, the longer the process goes on. And especially when they get an offer. So I think it is so important that in your initial consultation, that initial conversation, we do it in the seller counseling interview. We do it the very first, you know, the hard questions. You know, where are you trying to go, waving the magic wand by win. What happens if it doesn't sell? What do you want to walk away with?

What's the bottom line here? And you're going to have to as an agent write that down, put it in their notes, put it in the CRM, put it in the file, whatever. And every time on Monday or every time on Thursday, you're going to have to remind them of their motivation, their goal, because they're going to lose sight of it. They're going to be right of it. And they get mad, man. If you don't set good expectations, especially when they're used to seeing everything selling

a week for so long, they get mad fast these days. So communication setting good expectations is key. If I'm going on an appointment today, let's say it's an $800,000 house. And 60 days ago, it was an $800,000 house, but it might be a $7.60 house now. I'm showing net sheets down to like 710. And I'm like, here's what it would set. here's what your net looks like at 710. I think this is probably worst case.

799 is best case. And I'm showing like four different price points. And then I'm showing them like, okay, your net should fall in this range. But what if it falls down here? And if they're saying, all right, we would be okay with that, but we don't want that.

Like I go back to that over and over again. Because price sells homes, pricing condition. It does. And I think, you know, to your point, go in with multiple net sheets, right? Go in with multiple numbers and kind of because, I mean, you know this. Even if the market is sliding like you're talking about, right, it might have been 800. They're already thinking 8, 10, 820, 825 in their head, right?

They're getting rich off of the calculator. Yeah. And so you've got to allow, like you said, the data, the data, the data, the data so that they come to their own conclusion, showing them the number. And then they're like, okay, yeah, we'd be, we'd be okay with that. It's not what we want, but we would be okay with that. Yeah. And then you just have to have that in your back pocket every conversation that you

have with them. Yeah. And you can say, hey, your neighborhood had 30 showings over the weekend and you didn't get any of them. That means everybody saw your house online and said, that's too much for what you're asking. And they didn't even come to look at it. So like, let's get realistic here.

or you're going to start chasing this thing down. And I think to your point, the same principle here is the same conversation you've got to have with your team members. And you go back to the data, right? So like what you're talking about is that we're going to come in. We're going to make phone calls. You said $200 a day should equal number of conversations. Yeah. Like if you're not yourself, but also running and trying to build a team and an organization,

really becoming that true CEO of your business, if you're not relying on that. data and those spreadsheets and that tracking to put right back into the front of the agents because they have goals like you said in the one-on-ones and so you've got to be able to put that data back in front of them so that they can self-correct course correct based upon what their goals are yeah and in your one-on-ones it's got to be like you know are we hitting the goal or are we not has the goal changed you know do you understand what we're trying to do or are you still bought into this? Do you still have the same dreams?

Do you believe in what we're believing? Yeah. And, you know, always seeking to improve that relationship. That's the communication structure when you're talking to your team members. But just like you said with the sellers and buyers, you got to lead it with the data. And it's the same thing with your team members. You got to lead it with the data based upon their goals and putting their efforts and metrics in front of them as well. Yeah.

And dude, if you're not good at having or willing to have the tough conversations, you're not going to survive. have been a tough market. Yeah. So it's just everybody's so used to having these easy conversations for the last few years. And it's just, that's changing. So you're going to have to have tough conversations with sellers and with people on your team. If you want to get good results. But it's an easy conversation when you, when you get an agreement around a goal and a metric.

Correct. Yep. Because then you can just be like, what's the data telling you? And then it's like, I'm off. And it's like, well, how come it's off? Has your goal changed? Like, how come it's off? Right?

Especially more to team members, right? Really allowing them to come to their own conclusion. And most of the time, their effort is off. It's always. It's always. Because you can't cheat the numbers. Right. And that's where you have to start, man.

You've got to start with the effort numbers first and foremost. That's why I love you. We started the whole conversation. That's what you guys are going back to. How are you leaning in with the other, team members. How are you getting everybody bought in to change? So my older guys that have been with me for so long, they're honestly doing it themselves because they've been through it. They see it. But the new guys, I mean, you almost have to force them to do it. But I'm also

putting the gloves on and coming in there and listening to them. I haven't called in years, but I've been in the office over the last couple weeks, call them with them and showing them how it's done. And I mean, just showing them like, no is not an answer. We, you got to hit me with like 15 noes to really get me off the phone or just hang up on me. So we've been teaching it. Then preaching it and every day just like here's our habits. Call, call, call, call, call, text, text, text, text, text. If you set an appointment, it is follow, follow, follow up, follow up. I mean, it's just, just be relentless and you'll be fine. I love it, man. And, uh, you know, you nail, it, right? I think the number one thing there leading through change is, is, you know,

having that big vision, right, of where we're going, what we're doing. Here's the opportunity, you know, really laying back into the core values, the purpose, the vision and repeating that often, but you're also in there, you know, leading by example. Trying to. Yeah, yeah. It's good. I love it. What are you most excited about yourself? I mean, you're in, you're in Charleston, you're out there, a great market, a lot of opportunities. that as the market's changing, you've got great people around you. I mean, what are you excited about moving into the new year? I'm excited about everybody and having the real estate license and succeeding in the business.

So I think it's going to be a little bit of temporary pain that's going to open up more opportunity. Yeah. Yeah, I'm with you. You know, that's one of the thing that I think there's a lot of opportunity. And, you know, Brandon, I was I was on with Brandon Town yesterday and his team and his organization. and he said, he said, I've heard you say that opportunity. I mean, like, why are you so excited about the opportunity? Where is the opportunity?

And it's what you said, right? I mean, it's the thinning of the herd, you know, the true experts, the true advisors, the true knowledge agent, the smartest agents will survive. The smartest agents will not survive. The smartest agents will thrive. Yeah. Dude, it's interesting the calls that we're starting to get in on our home buying business. The distress has changed.

Like, you can feel it. About a year ago, every seller that called in thought they had the golden ticket and the most valuable thing on the market. And now they're calling in. They're like, yeah, we understand that things are sitting a little bit longer. This thing's not selling. And the house down the street's not selling either. It's just you can feel a little bit more fear and distress.

than you have been in the last couple of years. This is an opportunity, like you said, as that expert advisor, that leader, not only leading yourself, leading your team, leading your clients, leading your community.

To me, that's the opportunity is being able to lead at such a high level when there's such a leadership void. You know, there's the skills that you guys are focused back on. That has been a void. getting back into the fundamentals of sales and marketing and how to articulate your value and overcome objections and not take the first no. But then there's also a leadership void.

And I think everything that you've kind of articulated and talked about is exactly what everybody should be thinking about moving forward. Yeah, I got lazy, but I'm not, I'm getting back. I'm coming back. No doubt you will. No doubt you will. Brother, man, it was a great seeing you a couple weeks ago. Great, always catching up. And, you know, I just, I really appreciate you carving out the time,

jumping in here and adding a ton of value. No, I appreciate you, but, I mean, you were my first coach. And I wouldn't be anywhere where I'm at right now if it wasn't for you. Well, you were a great student and took massive action. So indefinitely, you know, rooted in discipline, rooted in a, you know, trusting a process, and then not afraid to put in the hard work. And then getting everybody from a leadership perspective bought in and believing to do the same thing. And that was contagious for you guys.

And I think it's so important. It's such a great lesson for everybody. It's been fun. Yes, sir. All right, brother. Appreciate you. Appreciate you, guys. Talk you.

See you. Thanks for listening to the Coach Code podcast. This is John Kitchens. Hope you enjoyed this episode. Let's keep making it happen. And I'll see you on the next one.