KGCI: Real Estate on Air - Elijah Keyes on Building Your Probate Real Estate Business

Episode Date: February 4, 2026

Summary:In this tactical episode, Elijah Keyes provides a comprehensive guide to building a successful real estate business focused on the probate niche. The discussion emphasizes the importance of a compassionate and long-term approach to serving families during a challenging time. Elijah shares his proven methods for finding probate leads, establishing trust with executors, and providing a level of service that goes beyond the transaction. This is a must-listen for any agent who wants to enter this specialized market with a clear, ethical, and highly effective plan for generating leads and building a reputation as a trusted expert.

how to share business. I'm Bill Gross. I'm a real estate broker based on San Jose, California. I also have a team nationally of real estate professionals across country. I'm always looking for more people in different markets where we work with national vendors and have referrals that we distribute out and also have inbound referrals that we service as well. Now just kind of a little housekeeping, this podcast, we've been doing this for about five years now. We've got to be different iterations, we're actually making a big change starting next week. We're no longer going to be live on Zoom, but we're going to be using live streaming streamrard to multiple platforms at once. And so you'll be able to, when it's live, put comments in, I'll be able to watch them,

but we won't have the video side. Just because it seems like less people are doing that at any time slot, and more people watch it, you know, off time and put comments in, as well as it gives as a chance to get more guests and varied guests and guests across the country rather than those where this time's not work. So that's something to watch for hopefully be even more convenient for you. And we'll actually miss to YouTube, Facebook, LinkedIn, X, Rumble, Twitch, any place else I can find it for free. And I wanted to kind of, you know, with a fairly, you know, launch of the new year, wanted to kind of cover a few things here. Actually, we're waiting on our guests. I know he's working as a way in here.

So I thought I would just kind of cover what the purpose of this podcast is, for those of you in the business, how this should help you build your business. So I want to share a couple principles that I built this podcast on. Number one is the key success in business is not finding the right partner,

it's being the right partner. And I think too much, when I talk to people about probate real estate and they say, well, I want to build a business like you, Bill, how do I do it? In their mind, the solution sounds like buying some sort of list of data, and there are such companies across the country, and then a cold calling or cold texting or cold voicemailing or cold emailing or mailing, or mailing

those people, and they percentage of them coming back to them. And I will say that, you know, the people do that, and in some areas that works, particularly smaller markets, it's not so effective in large markets like LaSan just around that. But I don't think it really creates a long-term business. I think that if your business is based on, I used to be a Mike Ferry agent, three hours a day of coal calling, well, how do you ever get out of that business? How do you, you know, business, the goal is to build it and exit, sell it, turn over somebody to collect revenue. How do you ever get out of that? It doesn't grow. And so my approach has always been to try to build referral partners and to leverage relationships to get more business that way and have people calling me.

And the other big advantage of that is that I get people who call me who are looking to do business with me, rather me trying to sell them on how good I am. It just changes the whole dynamic. And as a real estate agent, I found that when I call, I would have consumers who maybe sold one house in five years, tell me that they knew they're right and I was wrong. Versus today, I'll tell people, hey, if you think you know more than me, then go find another agent. That's fine. No hard feelings.

I'm entitled to my opinion. I'm a professional. I'm not going to change my opinion because we disagree, but I respect your right to disagree and good luck. And often those people call me back and say, hey, I talk to these other agents and you're right, there's more to it and you seem to understand it. And I want customers who want me because I'm the expert. And that changes how business is done during the course of the transaction. And so that's the basis of the relationship is being the right partner rather than finding the right leads or the right prospects, number one. Number two, I've seen there's a difference between what's your strength, what's the value proposition that you create for people?

And again, as my friend agent, my strength was I was a great coal caller and I was a great salesperson, a great closer. But that's not necessarily the key that makes me a great real estate agent or a great probate real estate agent to my clients versus being an expert is valuable. People want to work with me because of my expertise. They basically would have my expertise. And so I think that the opportunity that you have is to make that choice. And if you decide to make the decision like me to really work on your knowledge and to be an expert for customers,

then you have the opportunity to be an expert and get business from people who wanted to business with you the same way. And then the last thing I want to say is that it's a constant effort that real estate, is a business that I think like any business development is is required some constant effort to grow your business and that's why I do this podcast I do weekly we're actually launching a couple new podcasts I'm launching estate planning weekly stay tuned for details in that we're launching reverse mortgage podcast because those are the overlaps and the same people and our niches that we do business in so that's that's kind of principles of this one of the things along the way that I've met some great attorneys and one day I've met had a great conversation with him a few months ago and we talked a

couple times in a video and he agreed to be a guest here on my podcast today is Elijah Keyes. Elijah is a Keyes Law Group PC. He's the founding partner and Elijah, thanks for joining us. I appreciate you your time. Thanks so much. Sorry for starting to me a little bit late. We had staffing issues at the firm and I realized now that my hair is ridiculous. So I'm glad that it's live. Yeah, this is good. I hope so many people aren't watching it live. And if they are, my apologies. Well, as far as the staffing issues, look, for what I'm paying you, I'll just get a discount on my fee from you. And as far as you're, and as far as you're, I'm not complaining by anybody's hair. Okay. I'm just glad to have what I have. And I'm not here to make any judgment. So we'll

let that comment pass as well. So I'm, uh, my, my, my services today are free. So, you know, just, uh, you get what you pay for. Oh, yeah, exactly. That's the value that it is. So, I think that for the people are listening, which is primarily more realtors, professionals, and some attorneys across the country, I'm just saying that there's different attorneys that focus in different areas. Some just do estate planning, some just do administration of trust or probate, some just do litigation. Explain work, and I notice looking at your website, you also go into fairly deep estate planning issues like special needs trust and some other ones we'll talk about a little bit. How would you describe your focus as far as your firm

on the spectrum of things covered in probate and trust real estate. Sure, thanks. So first of all, thanks for having me today. Really appreciate that. You have a great podcast, and I'm glad to be a guest. So about my firm's offerings, a lot of people say that they do estate planning. Estate planning basically means that someone plans ahead for an in-between process between someone's death and another person's ownership.

Okay, it's really what it means. You're planning ahead for one person when they can't control it. for another person to control it and there's a transition period. And that transition period is very complicated and difficult. That's why estate planners are here. But the tools that we use for estate planning are the same for people who have $50 million or for people that have a disabled child. There are additional tools that are used for those two segments, but the basic tools for

everyone are the same. So what my firm does is we have kind of a unique position. We do a crossover. We focus on a crossover between two different types of people. Number one are individuals who are protecting someone else, someone who has an elderly parent or a disabled child. So that's number one. Number two is that we focus on individuals sometimes, not everybody, but we can help people who have a certain amount of assets that mean that they need more assistance. That generally is somewhere between $20 and $40 million.

So we focus on the crossover between those two people. Now we help people who have anywhere between about a million up to about 50. the majority of our clients is somewhere between one and 12. That's just where they are. We help people who have more. But the majority of our work is people who have maybe somewhere between 5 and 10 million. And that's totally okay. There's nothing wrong with having more.

There's nothing wrong with having less. But our firm focuses on a crossover of those two issues. Now, that means that we have to know our tools really well. And so we can help basic estate planning a little bit better than someone that just does regular trust. That also means we're a little bit more expensive just because we dive deeper. And then just to understand the breadth of your service, some estate plan companies write the plan, prepare the plan, and there's any litigation, step aside and refer out. Others also are there to litigate. Do you guys do litigation if there is?

And there is, I think my experience is there always some litigation. If there's a lot of money involved, somebody's going to see you about it. But do you handle that yourself, or is that something you refer out to a different firm? So at my last firm, I was a partner, we didn't refer it out. We had an internal litigation group. Here, I've been in talks with several attorneys to be an inside litigation group. Historically, what we've done is we have referred out the litigation portion. So, for example, if we have five fundamental tasks that we have to take care of in the trust administration, and one of them is this litigation piece, then oftentimes we bring a litigator in rather than referring out.

We bring the litigator in to handle that litigation piece and the rest of it. it we handle in house. We've been in discussions about bringing people in, but that's not, that's not coming to fruition within the next year or so. So we still refer out litigation. If something is solely litigation, if that's the concern now, we send the whole case out. But if something develops in our work and worth helping the client, we simply bring the litigator in. We're very happy to do that. That's a key distinction. For those listening, I've done, I've interviewed probate and trust litigators who that's all they do. They don't do any planning. They're doing administration. They're the people that's like Elijah might call when a customer

calls in and says, hey, I just need litigation. I'm suing my brother, sister, aunt, uncle, whatever, as a whole different business and requires a specialization as well. But I always am encouraged when I see people say they support their own plans because there's nothing, from a customer point of view,

nothing more disheartening than the person that you trust. I haven't had it legally. I had it with accounting where I had an accountant, and then I got audited and the kid one said, I don't represent you with the IRS. Like, what? You did all this work. I paid you. I'm on my own. What do you mean I'm on my own? Well, you can find somebody else to defend you.

And I think that with the state planning, same thing. It's one thing to say, you know, we're not litigators. We'll coordinate with your litigators. We'll support litigation or we'll bring them in as a contractor. That's different than good luck here's a business card. And let me know how it works out at the end. Yeah. I mean, it's so frustrating. I mean, I have cases where we start a case. We work at about halfway through and then the cut and then somebody files some sort of a lawsuit in court. And if I can keep on any portion of the case, I will. These people trust me. Say, Elijah, can you, can you please, please help me?

Can you? I mean, they're begging us. They're saying, we'll pay you more. And the answer is, look, it is, as you said, Bill, it is a different skill set. There are two different fundamental types of attorneys. And a lot of people don't know this. They think, a lawyer is a lawyer, but a doctor is not a doctor. You don't want to go to a podiatrist who deals with feet to deal with your nose.

They're completely different structures. And so there are fundamentally in my field. They're fundamentally two types. There's someone who plans and there's someone who fights. And planners and fighters are oftentimes not the same person. If they are, they tend to be a very small firm, one to two people because they are fundamentally different skills. And the reason why I say that it tends to be small is that in general, the best of the best

of the best are going to focus. They're going to hyper focus on one or two things. People are generally really good at one thing and they can do other stuff, but they're not so good. we hyper focus on one type of client, someone who has a taxable tax issues and who is protecting another person, disability or elder. That's what we focus on. Everything else we're not so good at.

So that's really what we hyper focus on. There are attorneys out there who focus on state taxation issues regarding property taxes in Los Angeles. That's all that they do. But they're really good at it. So we're really good at what we do, but we hyperfocus. that means that we choose not to do more than what we do. Out of every client that calls, we reject 75% of them.

Not because we don't want to help them, but because they're asking for something that we just don't do. So there's a lot to impact there. For those of watching, I just want to point out, one is, and it's my experience, too, that the attorneys who do litigation only and are great litigators are a whole different personality style. Elijah does not come across as that guy. The ones that do come across is tough and hard.

And they can smile and they can be nice, but those litigators, they are tough as nails. That's the nature of litigation. They have to have very strong, I think, emotions, keep them in check and such. And secondly, talk about the hyperfocus. And for everybody on this call, I think as real estate agents, our biggest mistake is we want to tell people, I do everything. I work with first-time home buyers, investors, multifamily, industrial.

I sell the Golden Gate Bridge versus the more narrow you are, the more expertise you have, I think the more value you can bring to your customers. Yeah, it also is easier from a marketing standpoint, right? I mean, if I say I do estate planning, you're going to think of 10,000 estate planners, right? There's a lot of estate planners out there. Our firm, as you know, is one of the top 1% of the state. But why is that? Because when I advertise, when we do marketing, we focus on a very narrow, narrow segment.

So that when someone comes in, maybe they have 20 issues that they're dealing. Maybe you have 20 problems. But the one problem that I've focused on today is this one problem regarding a capacity of a parent. My mother needs an estate plan, but all the other planners say she has dementia and they won't help her. Can you help her? Great. I need an estate plan too. Great.

My father passed away. We need to administer his plan. Great. We're selling this house. Great. They have a thousand issues. But the one issue that they're focused on here. And so if you're a realtor and you're looking for issues, there's just a marketing,

there's a fantastic marketing book that I've read twice now called Blue Ocean Strategy. Yes. And it just says do what everybody else is not doing. Yes. So my firm does what everybody else is not doing. We focus on the children of aging parents who have money. No one else is doing that. Yeah, that book is fantastic.

Gloucution strategy. That's where I launched my probate business because I went really hyper-focused, LA County court confirmation sales. And from there, I took on other business that kind of grew out of probate, but 100%. So I had an article this week, I came across, I do a weekly podcast on real estate. And an article I came across on Kipplinger, there's so much misinformation in, real estate news that I talk about all the time. But I thought it was a pretty good article,

and I thought I'd use the opportunity with you to kind of review. They said the seven best practices for estate planning, and I just wanted to run by you and see what you thought of these. If you have comments as far as are the best practices, or how would you approach them? For example, one of them was have backups for different roles. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, so when clients come in to see us,

we want them to follow the Trinity principle. That doesn't mean like a religious thing. It means you need a representative. for your health care during your life. You need a representative for your finance during your life. You need a representative for your trust in the state after death. And you don't choose three people, one, two, three in order. Because if the first person can't do it, then you're in the position of the emergency procedures for California. California has an emergency plan for you, which involves a judge. And judges aren't bad. They just, they need to watch. It's the watching of the judge's process that's

bad. Probate isn't bad. It's just a process to transfer assets from one person to another. That's all it is. But it's the judges watching that causes problems. So if you have backups in your documents, then you don't go to probate. If you don't have backups in your documents, so you documents become ineffective. They no longer work, which means the judge is involved, and now you might as well have not arbidnaut. Now, Elijah has to be polite because he's an attorney as in front of judges. But I'll tell you, probate court is bad. It's like the DMV. It's just not a service-oriented as a DMV is, is how I would say it. No, it is not. And the problem with probate is not the problem with the court. Problem with probate is that the thinking of the probate

court is backwards. And it needs to be backwards. And this is what I mean by that. When you have a bank account, Bill, you have your own bank account. You go to the bank. You open your bank account. The bank does things for you. You ask the bank to serve you. You take your money out. You put your money in totally cool. Nobody cares, right? But if you're managing someone else's money, the bank now has a requirement to treat you as if you're a thief. And the backward thinking is you don't own the money, but you're controlling the money. The bank doesn't serve you. The bank serves the owner.

And so the court is in the same process. If you are the person in court, you aren't the owner. You're the person who's managing the owner's money. Therefore, the court treats you as if you're a thief. So it's almost like, it's almost a completely thinkless job where you have some super big brother over your shoulder telling you to do things that you don't know how to do and you did it wrong. It's really frustrating. Second best practice in this article was communicate with their loved ones.

Now, I think that when you have an attorney, obviously, questions, well, who does a communication? Is it the administrator or is it the attorney? But where I said, the lack of communication always comes back with increased litigation or stress or pain in some sort. and you can solve so many problems with one extra phone call. What are your thoughts as far as communication with the other? I think most litigation comes because of unmet expectations. Most arguments, most divorces happen because people resent each other and why do they resent each other? Because they don't feel that they're receiving what they expect.

Right. So I expect something for me. You expect something for me. If we don't have an understanding of what we expect, then there's a disconnect and now there's fighting. Fighting in legal and law means court. It means litigation. And so if parents tell their children what to expect, then there's no unmet expectations. And the children can either disagree with their parents, but there's no way that that child thinks I deserve this, therefore I should sue.

There might be a situation where they say, I don't like what mom said, therefore I'm going to disagree. That's different. That's different from saying, I feel entitled, therefore I sue. So yeah, I agree with that. There are two different ways to do that. Family members, parents can speak to their children because I speak to people. I've known them for maybe two months. They've known their children for 20, 30, 40, 50 years.

Maybe the parents should talk to the kids. Second way to do that is that I can invite the families to a training. So, for example, in about a week and a half, I'm holding a training. I've rented out the community center in my city. I'm hosting probably about 200 former clients and their family members. I'm going to teach the family members what it means to be a trustee. We do this every year. We're going to start increasing it to do it every two months.

I teach my clients. what is a trustee, what do you need to do, what do you need to know, where do you need to look. And so I just do trainings. I teach them. That's a second way to teach people what to develop. That's the difference between a really good firm and a kind of mediocre firm. The mediocre firm says, here's your documents, go away. The good firm says, how can I add value?

How can I make your life better? That's our entire focus. How do I make your life better? I never heard of that before. It makes so much sense. And I also feel like even if people don't go to training, the fact you offer it, sometimes that's the beauty of the podcast is I have, you know, we're, we're referral partners, attorneys, vendors,

who go, well, I don't even listen to the content, but the fact you're out there trying to train people how to operate better means you care about your customer more than the average guy who's just waiting, you know, cold calling for business. I don't want to characterize anybody as good or bad. I just mean that that's what we do. We try to improve people's lives.

I think it's amazing. I'd love to show up. I know you're in Northern California. I'd love to show up for somebody. I think it's amazing resource for customers. I'm encouraging anybody who's your customer to. Well, I can't, I can't pay for your travel, but I have a couch if you want to stay on it. Thanks.

I think I'll go a little past the couch thing. I have my age, but thank it's very sweet. Very nice. As far as the best practice, the other one, I don't know if this is the best practice or this is the worst practice most commonly done is don't forget to put your assets in your trust. Oh, yeah, it's a big deal. Yeah, California has this really weird system where the judge can put stuff in your

trust after you die, but there's a whole bunch of limitations that is really complicated. A trust is a bucket. It only governs what's in the bucket. The thing about the trust that people say, I have a trust I'm done. No, no, no. The trust is a tool. Apple Computers was formed on a one-page document called Articles of Incorporation. That Apple Computers is one of the most valuable companies in the world.

How did they do that? They kept putting stuff in. They sold products and collected money. They hired employees and provided marketing. But they did it inside the company. Same thing with a trust. You have to put stuff into the trust. How do you do that?

that you fund it. But you fund it? That's a whole conversation in itself. But you do have to put things into your trust in each set of documents that we put out that we provide a funding instructions. And we also offer a service. So customers that say, hey, I don't want to do this. Can you do it for me?

Sure. We just charge a certain amount for each piece of property. We charge a certain amount for each bank account. It's happy to do it. But if you do not put things in your trust, then your trust is ineffective. And it's an empty shell. it's wasted. I tell people, if you bought a safe, like the world's greatest steel safe, and you had lights and cameras and electric things, touch pads all around it, and there's the world's

greatest thing ever made in a house to keep all your valuable safe and you install it, you walk out, I'm done, I've got a great safe. If you don't put the money in the safe or your gold or your jewelry or guns or collectibles in the safe, you got the world's greatest safe, it just doesn't save your assets. It just kind of sucks up space and time of money. Now, there have been two questions here. I don't know if you want to take those or not. Somebody asks a legal question. Just so you know, I'm a California attorney, but I'm not going to provide legal advice on

podcast. If you have questions, call the firm. I'm happy to set a meeting with you. But we do charge for consultations most of the time. Second question is someone asked about our trustee training. That's an office to Austin service. How do you sign it for the trusty training? You become our customer and then we send you an invite.

It is only for customers. It's not for anybody else. Families can bring family members. And we have lots of people who are coming. but you can't just say, hey, Elijah, can I just sign up? No, it's only for clients. Very nice. So sorry, Chai.

No, I like you. I like you, but you're not a customer. To the point of the legal questions, you know, I know that because I have a pretty big Facebook page, I have a probate weekly who has about 4,000 people. And again, all those people will post their legal questions. Sure. And then people who, you know, real estate agents, non-attorneys will answer these legal questions. And I don't.

Now, sometimes if it's a business answer, like I'll say, things like, you know, pull the deed, send the deed, I'll look at it, you know, how is title held, that doesn't sound right, take a look at the actual document, that's more business advice. But when somebody starts to get an illegal advice, and I see people answering it, I think, yeah, no, you need to find a resource. And so we'll talk a little bit about for people who have, you know, planning issues, what to do is to go back a little bit, though, I think the most common thing that I get involved with is not putting real estate in the trust, either in the trust or back in the trust.

And as you mentioned, California, you have a special procedure, and it's commonly called a Hegstad petition because there was a court case called Hegstad that allowed the judge in certain cases, the discretion to put something in the trust that was meant to be. And that's a whole legal question what that means. But as real estate agents, one of the services we can provide when we refer somebody to Elijah or another firm is we can get a customer's permission to check did they put the real estate to the trust. It's public record information.

And so what I try to do is pull the deed before they meet with the attorney so they can give the attorney the deed with the legal description and all the information on it. And then afterwards, I scheduled three days later to check and see if it was recorded or not. And let's tell the customer, A, it's been recorded. Congratulations. You're done. Or B, hey, I notice it's not done yet.

And maybe the answer is it's in process. It's in the mail. but the job is not done until the assets are in the trust. And as a real estate agents, we have two opportunities to help our customers, I think. One is referring customers, introducing our customers to great assets like Keyes Law Group. And the second is to help be partners in the process and maybe follow up and make sure the work gets done. And that's where I think we as salespeople tend to be a little more aggressive with that. And we don't want to step on the attorney's toes, but we want to be of service to our customers.

I think that's important. Can I add just a point to that? Yeah. Just a point of reference here is that the best attorneys who have done this for a long time are not going to record the instrument. They're going to hand it to the escrow officer or the real estate agent because I don't want to cause that delay in uncertainty. How my office records documents is we do it electronically, same thing as a title office just because it's fast and it's efficient. Some counties don't do electronic recording. I don't know why, but they're very rare.

But in the cases where there's some sort of escrow issue, most common time that I'm contacted by a realtor or an escrow office, because we need to clear title. You need a clear title. You've listed something on the MLS. You're under contract. You have promise that you have possession and title of this asset and you don't. And it's a big kerfuffle. Real estate agents, if that's you, then there was no prelim report prepared. And that's a bad, bad thing.

But I can fix it. How do we fix it? We fix it by doing court actions, by doing non-court actions, by getting the asset and the trust. Is it overnight? No. It doesn't happen overnight. And if you call my office 10 times, you're not going to get faster service.

We're simply going to fire the client. not because we don't like you, but because my staff's good feeling is more important than your emergency. And I want to be really clear with that. I have a lot of people working for me and they need to be happy. And you making them unhappy makes me unhappy. So please just work with us. Don't call 10 times screaming.

And I've had real estate agents do that. And when that happens, the choice is the client, the cut, the staff member says, I'm not working for this person anymore. I had too many other things to do. the answer is, okay, we'll refer it out. Right. Yeah, and I think oftentimes because as real estate agents, we don't know what's right or wrong. We assume by bullying people we're going to get something done. It doesn't make that.

That's just not professional, right? We're supposed to know what we're supposed to do. And I think nine percent of time when I hear agents, you know, yelling at me about something, it's they didn't plan properly. You know, a buyer buying property, they can do an estate plan during the escrow. And, you know, the truth is they can even record the document without the whole thing. being finalized. They can go back and amend the whole trust. They have to set up a trust basically get things started. And that can be done at the close of escrow so that it's

insured title. And I think that's much better than saying to them, well, let's just close telling your name and then we'll do the state plan afterwards. It's just missing the opportunity to do it right the first time. But it requires a little pre-playing. That's why I do this podcast, is to encourage agents, talk to customers, find out while they're shopping. You don't have a state plan. Let's get started on that so that when you find the house you want, we can buy it properly and have not just a deeded in the trust, but deeded with an insured transaction with tile insurance, which is going to ensure that that transition was made properly. There's actually a really cool thing that can be done. If the legal services are done in connection

with the purchase of a house, then the attorney can be paid out of escrow. So if the house needs to be deeded into a trust, then the preparation of the trust can be put through escrow as long as that as long as the bank approves that sort of transaction in the in the in the in the in the in the instructions yeah sure and again I think these are things that when you think ahead time you can do these things when it's two days for closing it's just too late and and nobody wants to run through all those hoops uh you know we wouldn't help customers and we all want to do miracles but the same time looking like you do a miracle because you can plan isn't really doing a miracle it's really just a lack of planning I think yeah yeah clients love miracles when you plan ahead and you do good work

and then suddenly things magically happen. But it's just how you, if that's how you always do things, then the customers love you and then you get so many reforms. So I thought your website was particularly informative about not just your firm, which is obviously the goal of the whole thing, but also as a student to kind of learn the different service and kind of perspectives of business. And so I just want to kind of cover a couple topics that you list on there.

One of wealth planning and family transfers. So as real estate agents, we're all aware of the value of an estate plan as far as avoiding probate. Talk a bit about the value of estate planning as it relates to wealth planning and family transfers. Sure. So first of all, thanks for showing my website. It's really nice. We've worked really hard on it. It's being redone right now, but really appreciate that.

About wealth planning and family transfers, the thing about an estate planning attorney is that they prepare documents, but the documents are intended to do one thing. and that is transfer control and ownership when someone loses control. So a person loses control either at death or they lose control at mental incapacity or mental, you know, incompetence if they're, if they have an illness or something, they can't do it anyone. And so my job, the only person in the entire world who protects assets passing from one person to another is either a judge or an estate planning attorney. That's it. That's their role. So people think, well, it's, it's boilerplate, isn't it? No. What the documents are is documents are simply tools that courts and the society recognizes as valid ways to direct control.

That's all that they are. The real magic is being able to understand what tools do what and what types of actions need to be done and then designing them correctly. Because when you're dead, no one can say what your opinion is anymore. The opinion is done. It's over. it needs to be designed correctly. That's what we do. And I have to say, I feel like I'm pretty sophisticated if it comes to finance, I deal with these things all the time. But when I talk to an estate planner about some of these sophisticated tools,

I get lost. That's why I don't do it. That's my firm. Use of insurance is an example. There's so many different ways to use life insurance as a planning tool. So also on your website, just kind of scrolling down a little bit, you have Dynasty Trust, which is a term I'm not familiar with. Can you explain what a Dynasty Trust is?

So dynasty trust was designed for people who are super, super wealthy. So their dynasty means that they're designed to keep assets in a family for many generations without paying a lot of tax. And so they were designed to operate in states like South Dakota and Texas and Alaska and Nevada where you can hold assets for hundreds and hundreds of years in a trust, California. You can't do that. You can only hold assets in a trust for about 100 years. But the dynasty trust, what it does is it says that the person who is the beneficiary, the ultimate receipts, recipient of the money is not the owner of the money. They have access and control, but they don't have ownership. So what we use dynasty trusts very often, I put them in trust every single day,

is basically to provide a lifetime trust for Piled and a cleanup and asset protection for that child at the same time. So we're going to give money to the child, but the child is going to be in control. They'll be the trustee, the manager. The child will have the benefit. They'll be the beneficiary. They can take money. But if they don't, and it stays in the trust, they don't own. it and you can't lose what you don't know. So the most important thing there is I give the example all the time. Let's say that you give a million dollars to a child in a dynasty trust, which is a lifetime trust for the benefit of that child. Let's name the daughter Deborah. Deborah is the trustee. She's the manager. She's in control. Deborah is the beneficiary. She's the one that can take the money

out. But Deborah doesn't want to. Deborah wants to buy the house. The trust buys the house. Deborah gets married. Her husband's name is Harry. Husband Harry, H. Harry. The husband Harry, as long as he's nice to Deborah, the daughter, he gets to live in the house. If he doesn't, he hits the road. And the money in that trust never belonged to Deborah. So Harry can't take it in the divorce. She cannot lose what she does not own. Wow.

It's a very powerful tool. In California, other states you can, but in California, you cannot protect your own assets. People call me every day and they say, Elijah, can you help you protect my assets? I can help you hide them. I can't stop creditors from taking them. But if you want to protect them for your kids, but the minute. Dynasty trust, creditors cannot take them. Wow. Wow.

I have a dynasty trust myself. My mother, I set up a trust for my mother. My brother, I had to set up the same thing for him because although he doesn't have a business and he's not a lawyer, I have to be fair with him. But I have a dynasty so that when I inherit things, as someone sues my company, someone sues me. It's always a risk.

They can't take my inheritance. I don't own it. It doesn't belong to me. Wow. I've seen that. Very powerful. You see it movies sometimes. They mention that they're owning.

the assets and like, well, how devious. By the other hand, in a litigious society like we're in today, what a great tool for protecting family assets and keeping them with the family. Now, there are tax benefits and tax that we can talk about that later. It's too complicated. Really what it is, it's a it's a prenuptial agreement for a child and an asset protection agreement for a child. One of the other products that you offer is limited conservators. I think it's also, you know, increasingly more important as more, you know, more of, you know, more of a business or older adults and people living longer physically but have mental issues. And so you have limited conservatorships. Can you talk a little bit about what that is and how you're

sure. Sure. Limited conservations are three types of conservatorships in California. And I don't want to go too far over this, but there's one for people who are severely mentally disabled, like someone who has major schizophrenia and lights things on fire. That type of conservatorship, only the county can start it. There's a second type of conservatorship, which is for people who are like really super old and they can't take care of themselves and you need someone to take over everything that's called a probate conservatorship. We used to do this. We don't anymore because of a new law regarding Britney Spears. But a limited conservatorship is different. It's for children who are what's called developmentally disabled. Development of disability means like autism or cerebral palsy or Down syndrome. They can learn

that they learn slower. And the goal of a limited conservatorship is to allow someone to become independent in the future? Can you become independent in the future after you have received additional training? For example, a kid who is a typical normal kid, let's take Deborah's son, Sam, right? Deborah and Harry have a son named Sam. So Sam goes to school. And Sam being when he turns 18 or 19, he goes to college and he has a regular normal life. But Sam has a sister named Sarah. Sarah has Down syndrome. He can become independent in the future, but she's going to become independent at 30

because it takes a lot more time for her to learn. A limited conservorship is appropriate for her when she's 18 because when she's 18, the parents can no longer take her to the dentist anymore. They can't take her. She can't sign documents. She has Down syndrome. She doesn't understand.

But when she goes to the doctor, when she goes to the dentist, she bites. She's a bite her. They put something in her mouth. She bites the dentist. They won't touch her anymore. How do you allow her to go to the dentist? They have to give her medicine so that she will allow them to do it.

They can't give her medicine. So you need a court permission. It's called a limited consideration. They won't give her medicine because she can't give permission. She can't give permission. She does not have the mental understanding to give permission and she will not allow them to touch her. And she hurts the medical staff when they touch her.

It happens all the time. Especially people who are very sensitive to other stimuli, which happens a lot with people who have developmental disabilities. It happens a lot with people who have autism or down syndrome. they're just very sensitive to outside noise. That's why some kids with autism, they hear something and they just go kind of ballistic. Because for them, it's like a bass drum pounding inside their heads

because they're so sensitive to that one input. Autism and autism just means that someone has a different way that they process information. And they can be very good at things, but one thing that they're not so good at is filtering. And so a dentist having some sort of, they have a hand in the mouth and they're using this drill, they just, they can't do it.

And you look at the statistics on autism, we have so many more children than when I was young, they're going to become young adults and adults. This is an area becoming more and more significant. So let's go back a little bit, though, and talk about conservatorships when somebody doesn't have capacity, not because they're going to grow out of it or be able to learn out of it, but because they're the opposite. They're getting older and declining in memory, declining in mental capacity. you know I think often obviously you want to plan before that so that when that happens or if that

happens God forbid you have the plan in place famously Jay Leno a really sad story here's a guy one of the nicest people in the world I actually saw him in a show recently and had chance to chat with him with all the treaties he has his wife he literally had to go to the county to get a conservatorship because for medical um medical authority and you would think well get didn't somebody plan ahead and have that? And the answer is no, they've done planning before and the documents they had were dated. So let's talk about what can be done if somebody's declining, what's the threshold that it's too late?

And then if it's too late, what are your options besides, or are there no options besides going to the county? Yeah. Hardest thing about a conservatorship is that most people think that being married is enough, but it's not. Being married is not enough. I have city bank accounts in my name. if I went unconscious and I didn't have the right documents, my wife couldn't access them. She just can't. The bank is not allowed to do that.

In our, we use Kaiser for healthcare. I know Kaiser Northern California, Southern California, they're different, but they're related. I have shared my health information with my wife. My wife has not yet shared her health information with me. That means that if we didn't have the right documents, I could not make medical decisions for them. She hasn't signed anything. She, of course, has signed because I'm the estate guy. So what do you do?

Well, not, of course, let's be clear now. Sometimes with the cobblers, kids don't have the right shoes. I'm one of those. I was guilty for years. So for those you listening, just because you get the podcast, it doesn't mean you took care of your estate plan. I'm not you Elijah, but for the rest of us, you still got your planning.

So I'm sorry to cut you off. That's all right. I can't tell you the number of estate planners that I know where they have no plan for what happens to their business. People come in every day and they say, my estate planner died or retired or retired or something. They have no plan for me. There's no succession plan for the state planner.

It's kind of ridiculous. But anyway, in order to make sure that someone else can make decisions for you while you are living about your personal issues, you need to sign two documents. One is called the power of attorney for finances. The other is called a power of attorney for health care. In California, we call this an advanced health care directive, which contains a power of attorney for health care. If you open up an advanced health care directive, section one, power of attorney for health care.

So what those documents do is they name a series of individuals, one, two, three, in my office, you know, choice one, choice, two, choice three, to make decisions. for you, but if you don't sign them, then California's emergency plan for you comes into place. And remember the judge, the judge is the watcher. So the judge watches the person who is going to make decisions for you. And it's just very burdensome. They have to tell the judge every dollar that they spent and every major decision that they made. Can they move your house?

No, they have to ask the judge. Can they sell your house? No, they have to ask the judge. Can they allow someone to rent your house? No, they have to ask the judge. Can they give you an experimental medical treatment? No, they have to ask the judge. Can you terminate the conservorship?

No, you have to ask the judge. So all these things, just avoid the judge. Now, your question here, it's because of your question, Bill, which is capacity is waning, what do you do? And what you want to do is you want to find an attorney who understands mental health issues. A lot of attorneys don't. A lot of attorneys say, hey, I come from a bankruptcy background. I'm going to do estate planning.

I'm going to tell people I've been an attorney for 20 years that are going to trust me. That's it. Well, it didn't work. Somebody referenced the movie, I care a lot. The movie's pretty misleading, but it provides a very good foundation for understanding what happens when someone, what happens when someone's losing capacity. There's a really good movie about losing capacity called Still Susan. It's about a neuroscientist or a neurologist at Stanford who lost, who lost, who got early Alzheimer's. But let's go back to the question I got to heard it.

What do you do? You find an attorney who understands those senior mental health issues and then is willing to meet with the customer, with, with the patient, with the client, and help them sign. Because if doctors say you have dementia, it doesn't mean you can't sign. What that means is that you have been diagnosed with a series of symptoms that categorize or similar to the symptoms of dementia.

And dementia being an ongoing downward medical issue, a progressive mental medical issue, they now have a prognosis, which means likely outcome, and they have a potential treatment. plan, meaning medications that might work. And so from a diagnosis protective, you have dementia, you have a dementia forever until someone confirms that it was misdiagnosis. But in the law, it's not the same thing. In the law, you can sign a document. If you can understand the nature of that document, the nature of your action, like consequences of your action and the alternatives, if you understand

those four things, you can sign. So there have been people who come into my office who have early alt-out on-timers, and they don't know where they are. And the next day they come in, and they've eaten well, they had a good night's sleep, and they're not stressed out. And they can understand, for 15 minutes and they can sign a basic document. So the question is, can you find someone who understands that issue well? And if you can, then they can sign. There's times a day. I know that typically the later in the day,

the typical dementia patient has more trouble where it's typically in the morning. They're a little more alert. Maybe they get up. They're physically more active. And so, yeah, there's different parts. So you're saying is the fact that somebody is incapable for a portion of the day doesn't mean that they are precluded.

And to me, it sounds like alarms were set. hey, if they're incapable for part of the day, let's get what we can, what we can to protect them. Otherwise, it's just not going to be pretty. Yeah. Yeah, there's weird thing that happens when people are older. If anybody has kids and they've watched their children learn how to walk,

there's certain benchmarks that the children reach. First, they can crawl. Then they can start pulling them up on furniture, themselves on furniture. Then they can walk along the furniture. Then they can take two or three tottering steps. And then suddenly they're sprinting across the house. And you say, how did that happen?

There are a thousand things that needed to happen in that person's mind and nervous system and body that allowed them to do each of those actions. And we just have no idea what those actions are. We can only observe the result. We base growth. We categorize growth based upon a scientific observation of people's abilities, which means you can now do a certain action. And we don't know what actually leads up to that.

When you get older, the reverse occurs, right? My father-in-law can't walk on his own anymore. He walks with Walker. Well, why? I don't know. It's because there were a thousand things that allowed him to walk independently without a walker, but he lost that ability. So now he can crawl and he can pull himself on things and he can walk along things, but he can't walk without the walker.

Well, he's worked backwards. Same thing happens with your mind. Over time, children learn how to read. They learn how to speak. They learn how to talk. They learn how to write. They learn how to do all these things. The thing that works backwards, too.

So at some point, the parent or the elder will lose the ability to make that decision. You don't know when it occurs. and here's the weird thing that works until it doesn't. I saw a podcast the other day from a business leader, and it was a fantastic statement. He said that every time that a young man brings a girl home to meet his family, and the family says this girl is wrong for you, they are right 100% of the time until they're wrong 100%.

They are right 100% of the time. The first eight girls that he brings home, they are horrible. And so from the family's perspective, the boy is always wrong. But finally he brings one girl home who is fantastic, who has his same values, who supports him, who is a wonderful person. And then they have been wrong from that point forward. And the same thing works here. As long as someone has the ability to get on the phone and tell Citibank, you can talk to my wife, he's fine. But one day he won't be able to do that.

So there's this, there's false prophecy, right, where you say, hey, look, it's always worked. Therefore, it didn't. absolutely heartbreaking thing happened to me on December 23rd. I was going on vacation December 24th. I was leaving. I was out of town. December 23rd, 12 p.m. Someone calls and says,

I have APS, adult protective services, investigating me. I don't want this anymore. My son's willing to help. Can you assist? And I said, yes, this is dangerous. You need to do this. And I just gave a list of things that they need to do. And they said, they've investigated twice.

It's never been a big deal. We're not going to do this. we're going to wait until you get back. Cool. I got back on December on January 4th, January 3rd. The county filed and got a conservatory. They were right until they were wrong. Everything works until it doesn't.

Everything works until it doesn't. So my only recommendation is don't think that things will always be the same because there's only two, three constants in life. Only three. Number one, things will change. Number two, you'll pay taxes. Number three, you'll die. Yeah.

My office deals with all three of those things. Just goes cold. Nice. nice yeah the thing I always feel like saying is it's never a problem until it's a problem

then it's a problem right and when it becomes a problem then the problem goes 10 to 20 times more expensive and I get to pay to satisfy the watcher it's just so expensive it just is yeah

there you go can continue down your website again I just I just want to say I think it's a great resource for anybody wanting to learn more about the breadth of estate planning and the issues involved special needs trust is one

that I get involved with I have a friend locally, he's really one of the experts in Southern California in Special Needs Trust. Shout out to Terry Magiddy. And he's one of those people got involved because he had to scratch his own edge. He had a daughter that needed special needs. And as a result, he's really become a pioneer in this field. And they built a huge, beautiful project for living.

And the first floor is on Pecoe Boulevard, his retail and really exciting. Anyhow, talk about Special Needs Trust. How do you take care of? Sure. You know, from where I said, it sounds very expensive. It sounds very complicated. obviously have an attorney to help take away the complication, but what's the process like? So there's one thing that people need to know. I was a former professor. I taught,

taught for a long time. And so when I explain something, I try to explain it in a way that's easily understood. That doesn't mean that it's easy. Okay. So special needs trust is a trust, just like any other trust that you might create, except that it's created only for someone who's disabled. So why do you create a special needs trust? If someone needs government benefits, Medi-Cal or Medicaid in other states, SSI meaning supplemental security income, other governmental benefits, a lot of those benefits have monetary limitations. If I have too much money, the government either limits my benefits or charges me money. Special needs trust is a barrier. It provides a barrier between the money and the person who needs it. And if the money is held in

the special needs trust, then the person who needs it isn't seen as the owner. That's it. That's all it is. There's a lot of restrictions, a lot of requirements, but special needs trust, you're thinking, government benefits, disabled person, money isn't owned. That's all it is. Those are the three things. I think oftentimes people put down, they say, well, special news trusts are something that wealthy people do to get benefits intended for poor people.

The reality is wealthy people pay all the taxes. And so all they're really doing is using a system to help leverage the tax benefits that their children, in this case adult children are entitled to. And so it's a way to provide some additional money for them to have a different quality of life. as long in addition to the government benefits they're entitled to, so it's part planning. There were two questions. I don't want to cut you off too long.

Can I answer those two questions here? Can a parent appoint one of their children as a conservator? Yes, but you can't appoint when you need a conservator because you're out of it. So you have to appoint beforehand. You need a document called nomination. You can't appoint.

You can nominate. The judge is in control. The judge is watching. So you can choose, but you can't select. So you can choose a child as a conservator. we do it every day. And second, does a dynasty trust for a child need to be set up before they get married or can it be set up after they get married? Will it have the same benefit? Same benefits before or after exactly the same. No difference.

So and then just to kind of continue down your website again, a topic that we've talked about in the pastest podcast briefly is Medi-Cal benefits and planning. That's obviously a California issue. Medi-Cal in California is Medicaid nationally, but it's It's grand in California, of course, as MediCal's a state program from federal funds. Talk a little bit about how people plan to be able to leverage again those public assets. Medi-Cal planning, we used to do it a lot. And now we don't do it that much because Medi-Cal benefits have changed. Everybody in the state from Elon Musk down to the very, very, he left, I know.

He's in Texas. Yeah, he left. Yeah, he's in Texas now. But anybody who lives in California is eligible for Medi-Cal, which is Medicaid's free version of health care. The question is no longer whether you're eligible. The question is how much do you have to pay? So if you earn income, the Medi-Cal says that you can afford some of your benefits. Sometimes you are required to pay every single one of your health expenses and Medi-Cal will cover nothing.

So my job oftentimes is to use the tools that I have to allow us to control assets in a different way so that income is not owned by the person who needs the benefits. that's it. So my job is to move income between people. And he said, that's easy. Why don't they just get the money and give it away? It doesn't work that way. A gift doesn't move income. A gift moves money. Income is who earns it. If the ill person owns the money earned the money, then the ill person owes the money to Medi-Cal. But if the ill person didn't earn the money, if someone else earned the money through some transaction control, whatever it was, then the ill person doesn't actually have to spend the money on Medi-Cal.

We do it all the time. It's much more rare. We used to do it probably two or three times a week. Now, I might do it twice a month. It's rare. Now, all these different areas are really, I think, you know, I guess I'd like to have you kind of come a wrap-up on all of them. But to me, they look like different tools in the toolbox that a different customer may need

one or two or three or all five or six of these tools, depending on their particular situation. Is that kind of how to look at these are different pieces of the puzzle? That's exactly right. So what we have done is we've identified our avatar. So that's a marketing term, right? Avatar is our avatar is someone who's between the ages of 55 and 75 who wants to protect other people, either children or parents. That's our avatar. They are generally married, not always.

They generally have real estate, not always. But they're very concerned about a number of things. And this is who we target. Those individuals have these specific needs. So if those people had other needs that were similar to this, then we'd add them in. There are attorneys who specialize in, as I said, a tax treasurer. transactions based upon county reassessment. We don't do that. That's not a concern of our avatar. There are attorneys who deal with sales and purchases of airplanes. There's an airplane law out of

Oklahoma. Do we do that? No, our avatar doesn't own airplanes. I have had clients who own airplanes, therefore I can do it, but I'm not very good at. So we don't focus on. And so again, this is the power of having a kind of a comprehensive plan and attorney who both, you know, has a few tools in the with toolbox, but also knows the limits and brings other people in. My guess is if you had your right avatar and they happen to own an airplane, you would probably consult with that attorney for that piece of a plan. Absolutely. What I would do is that I would prepare the revocable trust. I would prepare the entire estate plan. I would prepare whatever tools that we need to do. And then I would call the airplane lawyers and I would say, hey, I prepared a basic estate plan. Do you want to fit

something in or do you want to prepare your own thing? They would probably want to prepare their own thing because the airplane is value enough to want to control it somewhere else. So if those lawyers would work on the airplane, I would work on everything else, it's completely fine to have two people work on two different things related to the same person. Same thing. But if someone owns a piece of commercial real estate and a piece of residential real estate, you need two different realtors, totally fine. It doesn't mean that one is less important.

It doesn't mean that one is more important. It just means that they do different jobs. I don't like an airplane trust. That's a lot of fun. I need to find the guy who does it. I haven't had a customer owns an airplane. but I would love to, how else do you do that? Find the attorney that does those. So we'll see. You know, it's interesting. Airplanes are interesting. I also, I also have a lot of clients who have firearms.

So we do guns, for example. A lot of our clients who have firearms aren't necessarily in our area. We're in the San Francisco Bay Area that tends to be very liberal. Most of our clients who have guns are in kind of outlying areas, very happy to do a gun trust. Why do you do a gun trust? Because the inheritance rules are different. And the way that you transfer is different. And the way you put things into a trust is different. And the way you transfer guns is different. that we transfer them to children is different, the way you transfer them to non-children is different. It's just different requirements. So we create a separate trust for the firearms because there's separate requirements for distribution.

We just don't want the trustees to get in trouble. And those rules change so much. I both have firearms and I've been involved with as a fiduciary. I'm not licensed so I can do up to two a year at a time, or two at a time, but I've done them and also helped estates they had guns. And oftentimes they're family members who know, well, dad passed,

four guns and I don't want to touch them. I'm scared of them, which I understand if you're not to handle it. Don't. Call somebody who does and I'm comfortable coming in and removing the ammunition, making sure it's safe and then what do you do with it? You know, and there's different options and if it's, you know, do you donate it to the local police or, you know, just to get rid of it? Do you sell it because if there's an economic value, you have an obligation at least to investigate? And those are all very special people who deal with that and the paperwork with it as well. Let me let me talk on two points of that. And that is if someone's a trustee, almost every single trust allows them. If it doesn't have it, it's not a very good trust,

but almost every single trust that I write has the authority of the trustee to hire someone special to do something that they're not comfortable doing so that you could hire Bill. You could hire me. They hire a different trustee. You could hire whoever you want as long as they know what guns are. It's number one. And number two, with guns, if they're not comfortable with them and you don't want them, just have the police pick them up and they'll decommission them. They will. They'll melt it down. Or they'll sell them at all. or whatever it is. It's fine. Yeah. Yeah, I do find that, again, if there's an economic value, there's always a question, are you obligated to try to sell it? And you're not obligated to do anything

that's not safe, right? You don't need to risk killing yourself if you don't know how to handle it. But you certainly have the option to call the police and they're always got to get guns off this particular Los Angeles. They went all of our guns in Los Angeles. That's a whole other political discussion. They're there. They're fun tools. I have them myself, but it's just a question of, you know, whenever you have a dangerous tool, you have to treat it specially, right? You need to be careful. So the trust that we prepare just allow people to be careful and safe. Nice, nice.

Well, look, Elijah, I'm coming up at the end of the time here for your fee. I don't get charged an extra hour. Just kidding, but he's been very generous for this time. Look, I've always enjoyed talking to you. For somebody who has an appropriate trust that fits in your estate plan or requirements to fit kind of in your avatar, what's the next step they're interested in talking to you were someone in your team about seeing you for the right fit for their state plan. How would they reach out to you?

Sure, three ways you can do that. First way, you can go to our website where you saw the website itself, and you can click on a little button at the top right. It says schedule a consultation. That was scheduled a consultation with our intake team. Doesn't talk to me. Talks to our intake specialists. Number two, they can call the phone number there, 408, 766-768.

That gets to our specialist. It was well. If you scroll down to the very bottom, there's a contact us now link. That sends things into an automation. we have an automated tool. You fill out that information. You'll start getting emails from us so that you can go ahead and check us out.

Main thing to understand is that I'm only going to meet with you if you actually have an issue and want a solution. I have some questions. I have hundreds of hours of video and blogs. I have thousands of words on the website. I have social media posts. I have YouTube channel. I have all this stuff to give you as much information as you want.

But if you want me to curate it and filter it specifically for you, then I'm in charge him. So that works. Yeah, and I think that's a fair statement. I feel the same way. I do this podcast and many other interviews and people call me and want me to go through

their whole real estate transaction without someone in the house for them. And it's like, there's a point where I say, look, I do a lot of information for free, but there's a limit to my time. And hopefully they'll respect your time. Anybody from this call should obviously call. If they have the state with some issues

and are looking for a plan, I think you're a great resource, great tool. I'm really proud to have you on the call today. Thank you so much for your time today. Appreciate it. Thank you. Thanks so much. Good to see you. Good, Bill. Thank you. And for the rest of you, this is probably weekly. We get together every Thursday. Now, we've been doing this on a live Zoom basis. And we're actually going to be stopping doing that and do more of a broadcast version. And the reason we do that is we get more audience that way. But if you have questions or comments, if you're watching this on the replay as well, feel free to free to free questions in and comments. I'm glad to respond to them or pass on to Elijah or the guest, if appropriate, You can continue the conversation on our Facebook page, ProBate Weekly, his name of the page. And we have over 4,000 members, 4100.

A couple of things I would say, you can post your probate-related content on the website. Now, this is mine, but here's Kevin Bemble, is a friend of mine. He does a podcast, trusts, and he puts that there. There's a couple other people who've done well as well. Cedric Collins, is an attorney locally. Glad to have you guys put any of your own content to promote your business. If you want to get the reminders for this, you go to probateweekly.com, just put your email address in. If you want to put your phone number in, you'll need to, not required.

But that way when we send text reminders, you'll get those as well. And that's to register to get the reminders. And then if you want to see the past episodes, you can go down here on the YouTube link or on the audio versions, Spotify, Apple, all that is there as well. And again, I want to thank our guest today, Elijah Keyes from Keyes Law Group. And the website and the phone number will be in the description as well. Thank you very for being on the call today. And if I can help, I'm at Bill Gross Probate or Bill Grossprobate.com. Thanks so much, everybody.