KGCI: Real Estate on Air - From 2 Doors to 100+ in 3 Short Years

Episode Date: June 28, 2024

Welcome, everyone. This is the abundant investor podcast, and we are Beth and Christine, your host. We are here to show you how you can live your rich life right now with the power of an abundance mindset and tools the wealthy have used for years that are accessible to the rest of us, things like real estate investing and using the powerful benefits of life insurance. We're so glad you're here. Now let's dive in. Welcome to the abundant investor podcast. I'm your host, Beth Rooney. I'm here with my co-host, Christine Fisk, and we have an awesome guest for you today. We have Mariana Ossipenko.

Mariana is extremely successful and experienced real estate invest her. And so, Mariana, welcome. We're so glad to have you here. Thank you so much, ladies. Very excited to be chatting today. Oh, it's awesome. And so I'm going to just give the listeners a little bit of your background. First of all, you're a Bapsin grad.

If anybody's been listening, you know, that's near and dear to my heart, having two Bafson grads and a third current student and the hope that my daughter who's in high school will look at Bafin. So we'd love to hear later in this conversation and maybe how Bhapsa got you prepared for this amazing journey you're on. But in 2019, you made the decision to become a full-time investor. I know that you've successfully done flips. You've bought single families, you've bought multifamilies, and now you've entered into out-of-state investing in some really large deals. So with all that set, can you tell our listeners, really, how did you get started on this journey? Sure. So I actually grew up loving real estate investing, like as far back as I can remember, I was just fascinated by properties and buildings.

My father was also an investor. he started investing when I was just old enough to like start making sense of the world. And I realized pretty quickly how powerful what he was doing was. He was he was buying multifamily properties, renting them out. And every month there was money coming into our household. And it was, it was beautiful to witness. So I always had in the back of my mind that this is, you know, it's beautiful to see the buildings. I witnessed what my father was. was doing and the success he was having with it. And then I ended up at Bapson, because I always wanted to do business. And Bapson was wonderful. It obviously, you know about it. It's very much

entrepreneurial. And what's great about Bapson is you get access and exposure to so many different experts. Most of the professors at Bapson have run businesses, I've started companies, have been exceptionally successful. So I knew right away that I wasn't going to be able to do like a job where you sit and stare at an Excel spreadsheet. I knew I wanted to be able to roll up my sleeves and get involved in lots of different aspects of running a business or having a business. A real estate was always in the back of my mind, but I think at this point, I wasn't quite old enough to realize that you can start investing without necessarily having the capital for it. So that's something that that came later. And when I graduated Bafson, I kind of accidentally fell into a

business consulting and a business brokerage role. And I was with that company essentially for 15 years selling all sorts of different businesses from medical billing and pet services and manufacturing and healthcare daycare providers. And I got to talk to so many different entrepreneurs and learn and like what I always wanted to do, roll up my sleeves and be involved in so many different aspects from talking to the potential sellers and learning about their business and putting together all of the financial statements to try to put a value on the business, then going to market and talking to potential buyers and kind of holding their hand through the wholesale. It was a wonderful, wonderful experience.

And I did it for 15 years. but in that process, I also realized that it was very transaction-based. And you're constantly, you know, you have one client, you do all this work. The business sales process takes anywhere from six to nine months, so you get to know them. You're working intimately for that time. But nine months later, you go back to the drawing board. You've got another client. So at this point, I started realizing like, this is where real estate investing comes in.

because I've always been intrigued by real estate investing. I had my father's background in investing, and I saw his success with it. And at this point, when the business brokerage company, I was working for, the owner, I ended up retiring, that was kind of my sign. And I decided that I want to build up my real estate investing portfolio. It'll still allow me to do a huge mix of all these different skills that I love. love to do, but it's much less transaction based and it's much more about like building your legacy and building up a portfolio and getting to a point where you have all these properties that are

providing you so much money every month and you don't have to worry about constantly, where's my next deal, where's my next client. So I started back in 2019, very small, didn't have a ton of money to invest, but had a lot of, you know, dreams of what I wanted to accomplish and just decided at that point that I am identifying myself as a real estate investor and I am going to do whatever it takes to get to having a portfolio and having that passive of income and I just kind of worked backwards and decided like these are the steps I need to take to get there. That's amazing. I love that you made that conscious decision and you took on the identity before you even had it, before you even had the experience. I think that is so much of

the success that comes with making a big change is adapting the personality and adopting, then adopting our habits and behaviors. And really it's a mindset. And it's true. It's true. truly possible to do anything that way. And so I love that you're living proof of this. I talk about this in my leadership coaching, my business coaching with my clients there. It's about adapting this identity. What is the, I'm so curious, what's the first property that you identified, that you purchased? Did you put a lot of offers on things before you got one? Like, how did you actually acquire your first one? Yeah. So I, I'm based in the Boston area. And I was very confident that I want to invest in the Boston area because it's always easier

starting out local. So I also wanted a larger property just because it seemed, you know, cooler and sexier to have like a 10 or 20 unit property to start with. So I spent quite a long time looking for a property that probably did not exist, not in my price range at least and not with my goal. Because I quickly realized I can't be competing with that. people that are investing for capital preservation or the depreciation benefits of real estate or just the long-term benefit of paying off a property and having a fully paid off property 30 years down

the road. I actually needed a property that was going to provide me money every month because like I needed the income. I had left my business brokerage career. So I was very clear about the criteria that I needed this property to meet and very quickly realized that the Metro Boston area does not have anything that would mean that criteria. It's just everything here is too expensive cap rates are very low. So I have to keep pivoting and changing all of my criteria and my search area. So I ended up investing in Western Massachusetts in the Springfield area, which was never on my radar. But as an investor, you pivot and you changes. And the more, you know, the more information you gather, like you include that in your analysis, and then you have to constantly be

flexible. So I ended up investing in a duplex in Springfield, Massachusetts, never ever thought of Springfield as a target area for me. But it met all my criteria. And my criteria was I wanted something that needed work so I could put in some money into it, put in the time to renovate it, and be able to really boost the equity. And I wanted something that was driving distance. I got really lucky in Springfield. I connected with a property manager who was also an investor and also his wife was an agent. So we put together a plan.

He was really very helpful. He drove me around the entire area pointed out like what, you know, the areas I'd want to invest in, what numbers were looking at, what the renovation would look like. Oh, I think I forgot to mention. He also had a crew of contractors. So he was kind of like the full package deal. And he was super honest, very trustworthy. I, you know, I established the relationship with him,

talked to his wife a few times, drove around the area with him, felt really comfortable moving forward with him. He also owned over 100 properties in the area. So I knew I could trust him. He knew what to look for. He knew how to invest. So he, I told him initially, I'm looking for 10 plus units. And he said, you know what?

If you're looking for 10 plus units. units, it might take you three years to find what you're looking for. But if you're open to a duplex or a triplex, there's a ton of those in this market. So again, kind of pivoted a little bit. You know, purchase my first duplex. And Marietta, let me interrupt you for one second. When you, did you, had you saved for the down payment? Where did the down payment come from for this duplex? So the down payment, we saved a little bit. And when I was doing business brokerage, I was getting pretty large chunks of commission for properties, for businesses I sold. So I had a little bit of money, but this was a small deal.

The purchase price here was $144,000. So I had enough money to cover the down payment here. And then I found a lender with my property managers help that was local and was willing to loan me. I think they loaned me 90% of the renovation of the property too. So I only had to come in with, I want to say, maybe $50,000 or $60,000 and I was able to buy this duplex property, which again, it was great because I've been looking at this point for about six months. It took me a long time to find that property.

I had to make a lot of changes, pivot, you know, not the property size I was looking for, not the area. The property was over 100 years old. That made me a little bit nervous. But the benefit was it had a ton of upside. It was kind of in a very neglected condition, needed a lot of. lot of work, but by doing the work, I think it cost me, I should have looked up these numbers, but I want to say it cost me about 50,000 to do the work and the property appraised at like 260

afterwards. So in the first deal, I was able to boost equity by over $60,000 and it was a large duplex. So the rentals there were like $1,300 for one unit and $1,600 for the other. So I was cash flowing about $500 or $600 a month as well, which was like, you know, great for a property in Massachusetts. Yeah. So just even though it wasn't exactly what I'd been looking for, it still was kind of my proof of concept. I found a property in Massachusetts.

I found something that cash flowed. I found something where I could boost equity. And I was able to do the deal with only 50,000 of my own money out of pocket. So it was a huge win. now that I think back to it, I think I should have been happier about it. I think I was a little upset because I was like, oh, it's just a duplex. But you know what? It was like the first step in the process. And it's all about momentum and real estate investing. So now that I think back to it, I'm just like, yeah, I did it. It was, it was exactly like what I needed as my first investment

property. I love it. And can you take us then to, how did that snowball into? How did that snowball all into, you don't have to go through every deal, but just sort of in general, you went from a duplex in Springfield Mass. What were the sort of the next crumbs along the trail that led you to where you are now? Sure. So this was 2019. And after I closed my first duplex, I felt really good about myself. So I was able to refinance my money. I took that money, bought another duplex, did the same thing again. Then I ended up, I think, I'm trying to remember where we got the money now. I think at some point we used my husband's work bonus and then there was the home equity line of credit. So I was like, once I got into this whole investing game, I was like, okay,

how do we make this happen? Where do we pull the money from? Like, how do we, like, what do we have to play around with? So I think at some point, my husband's bonus came into play at a different point. We got a line of credit on our primary residence. But it kind of like I was, I was all in at this point. And I was like, this is working. I have my proof of concept. I'm just rolling with it. So I bought another duplex. Then I bought a triplex. Then I bought a four unit property that was like in the worst condition I've ever bought a property. It was literally down to the- These all in Springfield? Springfield, yeah. Springfield somewhere in Ludlow. and then there was a few in Chikopee. Oh, to go back to your question, I was also flipping properties. So I was getting some money from my flips. So that was another thing is I realized pretty quickly that I'm going to run out of money. I wanted to keep this party going. So with my same property manager and contractor, he was like really instrumental in helping me find some local flips in the market. So I did one flip that I did another flip. These were not huge profits.

because Springfield flips. I mean, Springfield's like a lower end market. So the properties there cost me anywhere between 100 to 150. Then you do the work. And I think I was profiting anywhere from 30 to 40,000 a property. But that was enough money to get me into my next investment property. That's perfect. I got to do whatever it takes. Like I'm using whatever money I can to deploy into this real estate investing thing. So I bought the four unit. That property was an horrible condition down to the studs. Really like no windows, bad roof, like everything needed to be updated. But I was feeling really good about myself at this point because I've now done a few renovations. I've gotten my money out. I'm rolling along. And as I close on the four unit property,

that literally needs everything, COVID happens. And everything. shuts down. My contractors, most of them, stop showing up to work because they're getting paid to be at home. And all of the materials we had on order, like we literally needed all the windows, all of the plumbing, all the, like everything. This was just a shell. Everything, I'm getting emails from suppliers. You know what? We initially said six weeks. We're now out 20 weeks. The factory shut down. We can't provide this. We're giving you a refund. You know, you're not getting your plumbing. Oh my gosh. How did you navigate that? Like, you must have, yeah, that takes a certain mindset. That was, that was very, very, you know, like, what are the chances? Like, did any of us ever think

that's going to be a pandemic? One in a hundred years. Like, it was never on my radar. It was one of those, like, black swan events, no one ever expects. And the worst thing was when it first happened. We had no idea what it meant and how long it was going to last. I kept thinking, okay, you know, a little bit more. I also have three kids. So now I've got my three kids home with me. I'm trying to homeschool all them. My youngest at the time was three years old. So he's like roaming around the house eating all the chocolate all day and leaving grass everywhere. I'm trying to like, you know, pay attention to him and spend time with him. And then I've got my oldest who's now doing homeschool full time. She's a third grader. She's never used a laptop before. So I'm teaching

her how you know, word document and this is how you along on here. And then my kindergartner who like went from loving school and being so excited to be in school to hating school wanting nothing to do with Zoom wanting nothing to do with online learning and I'm pulled in a million directions so so it was very it was a very hard um I think that first like six months was really challenging but as a real estate investor no matter who you have working for you and how many people you have on your team you have to have extreme ownership and everything you're doing. It's your money on the line. This is your investment. It's, you know, it's your property. You have to do whatever it takes. So I often would put my kids in

the car with me and we'd be driving around to every phone depot and Lowe's and like Ace Hardware around looking for a little gadget or widget because the two contractors that are showing up to keep renovating my quad property, I don't want them to take their time looking for this part because it's now not available anywhere. Everything's sold out. All the factories are closed. So I did a lot of driving around, sourcing the materials, calling a lot of stores, talking to like manufacturers, wherever I could get someone on a call. It was brutal. That renovation went from, we initially thought we could get it done in four to six months. It took me over, I think it was like a year and four months. Wow. I closed on it to the time I sold it. It was very challenging because,

obviously I'm paying for the financing on it. Right. You're paying the mortgage every month just for like our new because we have a lot of new newbies. You're paying the mortgage every month that you're renovating it, which is investors expect to do. And that's why it's a your time is ticking. And you really want to move quickly and it's really important.

And I think that's also why you take ownership because at the end of the day, it's your financing on the line. And you're trying to get this project done and it doesn't really matter to anyone else. Right. It doesn't. I mean, especially I had these contractors that just didn't show up because now it's COVID. Oh, I don't have to go to work. I'm just going to get paid for sitting on my butt. And I get that, but this is my property, right? It's like my money had my money in it. So it, but it was very challenging. You got through it, though. Yeah. I did. I got through it. We ended up. So the other, the other challenge there for me was I had a loan that reimburse me for work as we did.

the work. But in order for the reimbursement to like be triggered, I had to fully complete whatever I'm getting reimbursed for. So I had ordered the windows and I put a lot of money as a deposit on windows for four full units. But because the windows hadn't physically arrived on site and weren't yet installed in the property, I couldn't apply to get that reimbursement. Same thing with some of the plumbing, some of the electric, the flooring, like kitchen cabinets. So at a point, I was out like 80,000 out of pocket to put down all these deposits everywhere. And I'm just sitting there twiddling my thumbs waiting for everything to finally arrive. And I can't get any of my money back.

Yeah. So it's a very challenging time. Yeah. You know, it was definitely not something I expected to deal with. But the good news is when I completed the property and like, I mean, COVID was around for a few years. but that first year, I think, was the most challenging after that. People were a little bit more comfortable with it. So prices had continued to go up.

And as interest rates had come down, you know, real estate prices continued to skyrocket. So I completed that property and I actually ended up just flipping it because it appreciated so much. And I had spent so much money and so much cash on it. I was just like, you know what? Let me, let me sell it. I could have rented it and cash flow. but it would have taken me a long time in that monthly cash flow to get as much as I got in that lump summit closing.

So did you make money? I did. Yeah, I ended up making. So I bought it for a hundred. I want to say it cost me just about 100 for all the renovations. I had obviously like holding costs and all that of quite a while. But I think it's sold. I should look at my numbers.

I think it sold for like the low to mid 300. So I think I still made about $80,000 on it, which quite honestly was not enough for all the work and like anxiety that caused me. But I was just happy to get all my money back still and come out on the other end of that deal. And it was just one of those things again. No one expected COVID, but you really want to work through. Exactly. Yeah.

I totally feel your pain. I started a person, our renovation on our house in March of 2020. And, you know, three kids coming home from different, you know, college and boarding school. Unexpected. We had to pivot and find some place else to move. It was a little bit crazy. So, well, that's good because we were going to ask you about if you've had any unforeseen challenges. So that checks that box for sure. Oh, yeah.

How about have you had any like pleasant surprises as you've been doing this? What have been some pleasant surprises that have kind of where the things have sort of worked out for you or maybe, you know, people you've met along the way? Or growth, like personal growth? Yeah. So some, like one of my really pleasant surprises I think was I've connected myself to a lot of other real estate investors. I'm on a few masterminds. I'm in just some networking groups. I've gone to some conferences.

and what I've always been surprised at is like how willing people are to help and share their journeys and give advice and kind of hold your hand through a deal. I'm at a point now where, you know, I've been doing this over four years full time. So I have that network in place. And no matter what challenge comes along, I know I have a handful of people I can call that are going to be willing and able to help me and walk me through it. And there are a ton of challenges in real estate. And like one one challenge I personally have with real estate investing is I never know what the best way to use my time is, right? Because as a real estate investor, you're pulled in so many different directions.

And like you said, because I still do a flip or two a year. I redeploy that profit into my multifamily to keep scaling. So I'm still looking for flips. but now I'm also onto the larger multifamily. So I am talking to brokers. I'm underwriting deals. Sorry, I'm sorry.

What is the multi, just for our listeners, when you say larger multi-family, just give us an idea of the number of units and then continue what you were saying. I have decided that I don't really want anything under 12 units at this point just because of kind of the economies of scale of having more units under one roof. And I do a lot of out of stuff. state investing now. So when I'm investing out of state, you've got to get a whole team in place.

You've got to have the right property manager, the right contractor, you've got to have people you trust. So it just doesn't make sense for me to go through the process of finding a whole team of people unless I have at least 12 units that they're going to be looking after. So I'm focusing now on the 12 plus units. But I think like I said, one of the issues, even with that if you're just focusing on multi-family, there are so many things you could be doing with your time. Like, we live in a world that has an abundance of resources and abundance of information. You can be looking for deals online for days and days and days and you're not going to run out of options. You could be networking with brokers. You could be doing direct mail. You could be underwriting deals. There's so many events now that are

targeted at investors, especially multifamily investors that are like everything that you could do with your time, most of it is probably valuable, but at some point, you have to figure out what you're focusing on and what's going to move the needle forward. So I personally, I have a lot of multifamily friends now. I like to chat with them, whether it's on a call or just we text each other, and we keep each other accountable. And we talk about like, hey, this is what I'm working on. This is my goal for the week. So I like, one of the things I've really enjoyed is building up that network of people I can trust and rely on and I know that they're going to help me. And even though, like, if you kind of step back, you can think, like, well, aren't they competing with you?

We're all looking at good deals. We're all trying to find the profitable cash flowing assets. But I think where, again, like, I'm all about abundance and there's so much to go around. Like, I love working together. I love working collaboratively. And the last few deals I've done, and I've actually been working with a partner, which is not something I've ever done before in my life. So it was a huge, like, shift for me. But now that we've worked together, another thing that I've been very pleasantly surprised about

is like how much I love having a partner. In the beginning, I was really nervous about, oh, my God, I'm giving up control. Now someone else has a say, now I've got to run everything by another person. But really, like, the benefits so far outweigh all of the challenges. and it's so nice having someone you can bounce ideas off of. We can split up work.

We're holding each other accountable. Like we know if I'm talking to him at 5 p.m. tonight, I better have my underwriting done. I better, you know, talk to the broker. I said I would talk to when you've got someone else that's relying on you. That, like, really puts a fire under my feet. I love that so much. You're singing our song.

I mean, to a T. Everything from the partnership, Beth and I, I mean, I think we both like completely resonate with what you're, saying about having a partner because we built abundant investor the same way. I think anytime you're an entrepreneur, it's really fun to have an idea and start to build a business. And it's really fun to do it with someone else. And it also can be scary if you've done things on your own because you've got to have that trust and you've got to find your person. And it's so important that that person's the right fit and that you've done a lot of your own work and you know your strengths

and weaknesses so that you can, you know, divide the work in a way that makes sense and hold each other accountable and be supportive of each other. I mean, it's that is so, so aligned with the way that we work. Even to the, you know, we, we also joined a brokerage last year, EXP. And really, the, the reason we're so excited about it is because it's collaborative over competitive. It doesn't have any competitive vibes. We feel abundance as well. We feel like there's enough for everyone to go around. And their model makes it, you know, much more, it's just more naturally is more collaborative. as well. So we completely resonate with all of that. And I love how you talk about, and I think this is so true and not a lot of people in real estate investing talk about how it's a community where there's so many people

willing to support each other. And like I feel like so many people in it have gone through the ropes on their own. So they know what the challenge is and they're really eager to help other people. And there is, there is so much to go around. There's a there's completely enough. to go around. And I think investors like it's important for investors like you who are really looking out for not just the best interest of yourself, right, and trying to make a profit, but you're trying to do the right thing too.

I know as a landlord and as a business partner and this mindset of abundance, like that's what we need right now. So I think that that's awesome. I don't know if you wanted to say something about that, but I'd love to hear too. And I know our audience would love to hear how you're balancing being a mom and an investor and not so much balancing. I think any parents always balancing other thing, man or women.

You know, what does your lifestyle look like now that you're a full-time investor? Yeah, it's a huge challenge and it's something I've struggled with a lot and I continue to struggle with it. But a few years ago, I made the decision that I am going to. going to focus on being present and in the moment no matter what I'm doing. So I really try to avoid any of that guilt people feel by, oh, you know, I'm with my kids, but I should be looking at a deal or I'm on the phone with a broker, but my, you know, my kids are playing downstairs and I just, I should be down there with them. And like, I just make the most of whatever I'm doing. And my mindset is

if I have to be on a work call, I have to be on a work call. Like my kids are a little older. My youngest is eight. My middle one is almost 10. My oldest is almost 13. So it's a little easier now. They're more self-sufficient, more independent. But I've also had the conversation with them. They know that, you know, mom has to work. I want them to grow up, seeing that their mom, you know, is able to make her own money, that I can be successful, that I get to spend time doing what I love. I want to be that example for them. So they understand that. They also like to go on nice vacations and have a summer house and all that. So I tied that back. I was like, hey, guys, you want to go to the Cape this summer? Well, we got to be able to afford that trip. So I, like, I do talk about that with them, but I've also

been very just intentional in what I'm doing, how I spend my time. Like, I know if my kids are going to be home at three o'clock, I will do my best to come downstairs and, you know, be down there and spend some time with them, see how their day went. And then if I have to jump back on my computer or get on a call, it is what it is. Like, I'm growing a business. I'm working on my investment. They know that. And I just, I just focus on what I need to do. So it's really hard to balance sometimes, but which is, you know, I told you in the beginning, I don't love Zoom. Part of the reason is I try to take just voice calls. That way I can be folding laundry while I'm on a broker call. Or I do, I do a lot of calls while I'm driving my kids to activities.

I just try to make the most of it. I don't make excuses. I just, my motto is focus on what you can control. So, you know what? If I have to drive my kids somewhere and I'll do it, but I might have to be on a phone call.

Like, you just have to find a way that it all comes together. That's great. So you have such a healthy attitude towards it. No wonder why you've been able to enjoy success because that's, You know, I love that you keep saying the term, I decided. I decided that this is what I decided I was going to be an investor before as an investor. I decided I'm going to be present.

And so I'm present. It's as simple as that. I mean, you make it sound very simple, but it's I can, you can feel that sort of conviction that you have in that. And the reason why you're able to do it is because you're convinced that you're able to do it because you told yourself and now you execute it. So it's a really, I love that. I love that. I would ask you, a lot of our listeners happen to be switching gears a little bit. A lot of our listeners happen to be real estate agents.

And so can you tell us a little bit about your experience with real estate agents and what you look for and what's made a good experience versus maybe not so great experience working with an agent? Particularly as an investor. Yeah. So I have found when I started with like the duplexes, and I was lucky enough, I was pretty early on in my career. I was working in that Springfield area. I was working with a very investor-friendly broker. But what I spent some time looking around the Metro Boston area,

I did connect with a lot of residential real estate agents. And I think the difference in they just don't understand what investors are looking for. They don't understand the financials. They don't necessarily understand how you make money. they look at every property is, oh, look, you know, it's a beautiful view and you're going to love coming home to this. And, you know, can't you imagine cooking in this chef's kitchen? And that's great when you're selling a residential home. But when you're selling an investment property, my criteria is very different.

I need to know what are the rents in the market? How much, you know, how much money am I going to make? I need to know things like, do you know what this town is going to trigger a tax increase once you purchase a property. Will I have to pay more money right away for the taxes as a result of the sale? Do you know, how much work, you know, it would cost to renovate this property or what kind of finishes would a tenant want in this market to pay maximum rent? So like if I'm buying a property that needs work, do I prioritize the kitchen? Do I put in vinyl plank flooring? Do I, you know, what color would people like the walls to be. So I think investor friendly agents, they just have a little bit more

knowledge on the numbers. They have a little bit more understanding of what tenants are looking for and they're coming at it with a different perspective. So when I started looking, I worked with some residential agents and they were all like lovely, wonderful people. They just weren't able to address my questions. So that makes my life as an investor harder because now I have to call the town and I have to figure out how does the tax increase work? Will a sale trigger a tax increase? Then I'm doing all the research on how much will a two bedroom rent for? Well, if some of the older buildings in Massachusetts,

they have a formal dining. So I would walk in and say, you know what? I could convert this to a third bedroom pretty easily. Do you know what the rent would be for a three versus a two? They don't know that because they don't really work with investors. It's so important. So just kind of, yeah, it's a different, different. The different mentality.

Yeah, we saw that. We just saw that in upstate New York where we invested. We worked with one agent for our first purchase. We worked with an investor for our second. I actually founded because I had stated as Airbnb. And I knew he knew how to do that well, and that was what I wanted to do. So why wouldn't you go look for somebody who's already doing the things that you want to do? So I think any agents that have investing experience are naturally.

going to be more investor friendly or who have trained themselves and maybe are on the path to becoming investors themselves, they're really going to understand because they're looking out for the same things and it's in their best interest. And I mean, let's face it, you pay the same whether you're working with an investor-friendly agent or not. So really finding the person that understands your specific needs is so important. And I think what you said is our experience too. Yeah, it just makes a huge difference when you're looking at a property and that broker has already done a lot of the work for you and they can tell you, hey, I went into these units. This is the type of work you're going to need to do. I think in this market it's going

to cost, especially because I'm doing it out of state investing. I don't necessarily know what the contractors are going to charge. What the tenants are going to prefer. Do they prefer nicer kitchens or do they prefer something else? So I just, I love working with agents that are more experienced and know the types of questions I'm going to be asking and have already done that work for me. Not to say that I don't do my own checking. I mean, again, I don't back to extreme ownership. Right. Exactly. I don't have to verify everything. Do your own research. But it's just so much more helpful when you can go in and right away. Like if that agent, I was looking at a property that had two bedrooms that could easily be converted to three. If right away, she told me on the phone,

hey, it's a two bed. But the rate for a two bed rental is $1,500. If you convert it to two or three, you can easily get $2,000 and the work required isn't that much. You just have to put up a wall with a doorway. To me, that would have been like, oh my gosh, I'm prioritizing this property. Look at all this additional value I can create. The agent didn't do that when I went to the property. I noticed it. And the agent's like, oh, that's interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. It's like you're informing them and yeah, versus having a partnership with someone. Yeah. So you're like now you're immersed, your current work. is really focused on out-of-state multifanilies.

It sounds like you have a partner. I know that you're doing a lot of your work with and you're growing. And you mentioned to us before we hopped on the call that you're seeing more opportunities pop up, which is really exciting. So tell us a little bit about where you are in your journey right now and what you foresee in the coming year ahead. Sure. So we have now, I sold all of the smaller properties I had.

So I had a portfolio that had like some duplexes, that quality. that I sold, and I mentioned before. I had a six-unit property in Tennessee. So I had a little bit of like a scattered portfolio, mostly with smaller properties. Now I'm at a point where I'm looking at the 12-plus unit, just because it's much easier when you've got all the units under one roof in one location. So we have a few properties with my partner.

We just, we had some challenges with them. One of them was 85% vacant when we, we bought it, but we have now completely stabilized it. We're able to get higher market rents than we initially thought when we were purchasing the property. So the property that we purchased at 1.3 million, we have about 300,000 in it. We're going to be all in at about 1.6, and it should appraise close to like $2.8 million. So we were able to boost our equity in there by over a million dollars, or hopefully close to it. We did, you know, we have some holding costs as well.

But that was a property that we just finished stabilizing. We have another property that were at the very tail end of refinancing right now. We purchased it. It was a 12 unit, older seller, purchased it for 810,000, invested $160,000. And it appraised that $1.55 million. So we're taking... Will you hold these, Mariana? Will you...

Is your plan to hold these properties? Yes, our plan is to hold these. I'm really in the mindset of building up a portfolio now because I feel like the first three years of my investing, it was a lot of work and it was a lot of learning, but I ended up selling everything I bought. And I'm sort of like rebuilding my portfolio now. And I'm very thankful for all the lessons I learned. And I don't know if I could have been where I am now had I not gone through those like smaller properties. Totally. And quick question for you on that. selling them. Were you selling them in doing a 1031 exchange to avoid the taxes on the sale?

Some of them I did and other ones I did not just because it was such a competitive market and I wasn't able to find properties that made a lot of sense as a new investment. So unfortunately, not all of them, but some. So we're now, my partner and I, we've been working together for over a year and a half now. and we're really, we're very much aligned in our goals. We want to build our portfolio. We are buying properties in like very stable markets. Most of the markets we're looking at have growing populations. So we're looking at a lot of like the southeastern part of the country and some of the

Midwest, which you don't really think of the Midwest as like a very lucrative investment. But the Midwest has actually held really strong recently because there's been so much new construction in some of these, like, more up-and-coming cities that now there's way more supply than there is demand. So you're seeing rents come down versus some more solid, like cash-flowing markets like in Ohio, we're in Cleveland, we're in the Cincinnati market, Dayton market. They're not the cities that a lot of people think of is, oh, my gosh, they want to own over there. But they make a ton of sense if you look at all the data. And they've been folding very strong, and rents have continued.

continue to go up there. So those are the areas we're kind of focusing on. So our, sorry, you asked me about what I'm seeing in the market. I told you. I told. So what's next? What's next is we, we have a 44 unit under contract. We're negotiating on a 20 unit under contract. And we're get, we have 136 unit that we're very close to having under contract. That one would be a syndication. A syndication is essentially where multiple people pool their resources and kind of combine all our money to be able to afford larger assets. So that one, we would definitely be bringing people into the deal to help us purchase that. But the smaller ones, the 44 and the 20, we are trying to structure the deal such that it's just the two of us and we don't have to bring

anything in, anyone in. And that's another point I can touch on is real estate is amazing. And if you can figure out how to structure a deal and it's a win-win for the seller and the buyer, sometimes you're able to get in with very little to no money down, even though like 44 units sounds like a large property. But we structure that one in such a way where we can still afford to do it with just the two of us because the seller is financing part of that deal for us. So, and on top of it, like now that we've, I've been investing over four years, I have a huge network of brokers I work with. I work with property managers. People know that we're active and looking for deals and that we've bought deals. So we're now being approached with off-market

opportunities that aren't being advertised anywhere else. So we're really feeling, I think, a combination of the market is now turning a little bit and it's not necessarily a buyer's market, but it's not so much a seller's market anymore. It's kind of more in equilibrium. And on top of it because we've been in the game so long, we are now getting more traction. We're getting more deals that are coming to us. So our goal in the next year is to really scale and grow and potentially bring other investors into our deals, people that will want to be either active or passive in deals that are looking to get all the benefits of real estate investing but might not know where to begin or have the time or bandwidth to be investing on their own actively.

Oh my gosh, that's so inspirational, Mariana. I mean, you talked about starting off looking for property for three to six months and finally getting a duplex to throwing around like, well, we've got this 60 unit, 146 over here. Like out of state, like it's incredible. And that, you know, it seems probably like to you like it was a long time, but really just outside or looking in in four years. I mean, that is, that's, you know, really dramatic growth. and, you know, it's everything that you set out to do. So congratulations. My last question for you would be, if someone's listening and they're you four years ago,

what would be two things that you could tell them to do? What are just a couple of strategies for them to take, some action to take to get to the process started? So the first one I would say that I think is the most important is connect to investors, connect to people that are in the real estate space, start networking, maybe join some, even if it's an online group, a Facebook group. There's so many different groups out there. There's so many masterminds. There's so many networking organizations that are like focused on real estate. I think the number one thing is to surround yourself with the people that are doing what you're aspiring to do. Because by being around those people, not only do you get the network and the access

to information and potentially deals and all the other resources, but you're also like reprogramming your mind to see what possible. Because when you surround yourself with people that are doing what you want to do, like you begin to see that it's all within reach, right? Like I started with nothing. Most people in real estate investing started with nothing, at least most of the ones I know, there's obviously some that were born into it.

But for the most part, most people that I know built, built up from having single families or flipping properties to make enough money. So there, I think that is the first step. It's get in the room. Start talking to people. Start, like, expanding your mind to what's possible and what people have done and, like, just witnessing the potential. And the second thing, I think, is figure out what you feel you would be good at. like I said, real estate has way too many things that you have to be juggling all the time. It's like a big puzzle.

You've got to be, you know, you've got to be good at the numbers piece. You've got to be good at talking to brokers. You've got to be good at structuring a deal. Then you've got to be good at asset managing, managing contractors if you're renovating. So figure out where you think you fall in that puzzle and start doing, taking like specific action. So like if you think you're good at the deal finding, start reaching out to brokers, start looking online, start like getting your name out there, talking to people. If you think that you're going to be good at maybe asset managing, try to connect to other

multifamily investors, look for groups that, you know, like we're purchasing larger properties now. We might need to start bringing people in that have the ability to do certain tasks that we don't have the bandwidth to do and that we're not the best at. Like I was mentioning social media is not something I'm great at. I've been struggling with it. I haven't been doing as much as I should be. I'm sure there are people out there. They might not have the capital or the knowledge to get into real estate investing, but they could probably help with a social media piece. So just figure out where you can fit in. There's so much you could do. I think that's great advice. I think it's so true.

And I think in the beginning, you're figuring it all out. You find your way in and then you learn the whole ecosystem. You figure out what you're good at. And then you can start to outsource as you grow and you have built up the capital. You can start to hire more and more out. And I think that's so smart. And it is possible. And you're such an inspiration.

And I just am so grateful that you're willing to join us and share your experience with our listeners. I know that so many of them will find inspiration and, you know, a lot of learning from our podcast today. And so thank you for everything that you've shared. Thank you for being who you are for being so open and abundant-minded and showing people that way, you know, just as much, there's as much value there as there is in sharing your real estate story because I think that the abundance is possible for anyone no matter what they're doing. It's been a real pleasure to have you on the show. Thank you so much.

It's been wonderful. Have love chatting with you and love listening to you ladies. Keep it up. Thank you. Thank you. Bye. We hope you've enjoyed this episode of the Abundant Investor podcast and learn something new. We would love to hear from you.

And if you did get something from this episode, please subscribe and rate this podcast so more people can find it and live their rich lives too. And remember, an abundant mindset means there's always plenty to go around and through giving we receive.