KGCI: Real Estate on Air - How to Be a Beast: High-Performance Habits with Ken Rigel

Episode Date: May 12, 2026

Summary:In this episode of the Power Half Hour, host John Tsai interviews real estate veteran Ken Rigel, who has been in the industry since 2005. The conversation focuses on what it takes to "be a beast" in a competitive market—moving beyond average effort into high-performance territory. Ken shares insights from his 15+ years of experience, emphasizing the mental toughness and physical discipline required to sustain long-term success. This is a high-level mindset and performance session designed to help agents audit their daily habits and adopt a more aggressive, yet disciplined, approach to their business growth.

Welcome back, guys, to the power half hour. And today we have our very own EXP Realty agent, team leader, top 50. Mr. Ken Riggle, how are you, sir? Welcome. Thanks, John. Good. I'm very good. How are you doing?

Very good. I don't know if I told you, but I could just say it here that, you know, my last day as president of EXP Realty Canada was March 29th. If you didn't know, if you didn't get the email. I did see that email. You did see that. Okay. Okay.

So, you know, now I get to spend a little bit more time with my family. So just to put that out there first, if we're talking about presidency or whatnot. But today is about you, Ken, today. Oh, it is. Oh, great. Lucky we want to know. How did you get started in real estate? And how long have you been doing this?

Oh, wow, long time. So I got into real estate. was actually, I used to host radio shows. I worked at radio stations, so I was a program director and a music director and then a radio host all over the country. And then I just, you know, we had, we started having kids and we were tired of moving around. We wanted to come home. So we ended up coming back to Calgary.

And I ended up launching a radio station here where I tried to figure out what I was going to transition to. And then just like a lot of people, I kind of fell into real estate. You know, my father-in-law was a longtime realtor at a really good friend that was on a team. And so he's just like, just try it, just go get your license. So, so I did. And that was 17 years ago. And I haven't, yeah, it was a long time ago. And I haven't looked back. So awesome. Well, you have a great voice for radio and TV, I think. Now, now I know why. I'm like, okay. So did you ever kind of dabble

back into that or just full time now, real estate? No, well, I did. I guess for the first couple of years. So, you know, when you transition into real estate, especially back then, I was lucky and I was hosting a morning radio show in Calgary. So I would be up at 3 in the morning to get to work by 5 and then I would be off the air by 9, 9.30. And so then I could go work real estate all day. So I did that for a couple of years to transition, which I was super, super lucky to be able to do that. Not everybody has that luxury or that flexibility to transition into real estate. And then over the next few years, I would get calls from radio stations in town.

They needed some vacation relief and that kind of stuff. So I would jump back on the air and, you know, host a show or two. But other than that, no, I went, I went whole hog into real estate after the first two years for sure. Oh, gotcha. So 17 years ago, that was exactly when basically I started about, so 2007 is when you started, right? Yeah, that's right. You know, Calgary has seen a lot of cycles. Yeah.

And so how did you navigate through all those cycles, like mindset-wise? What did you do differently to, like, still, be here today, which is phenomenal. Yeah, it's funny. I got my license actually as the market was crashing. So the financial crisis of 2008, our housing market had actually started to crash the summer before that because we, in Calgary, traditionally, we follow the rise and fall of oil and gas.

And so the market had started to tail in the summer of 2007. I got my license in the fall of 2007. And so we were in free fall by the time the financial crisis hit. So I didn't learn how to sell in an up market. I learned how to sell in a crashing market. So I think that was one of the best things that could have happened to me is that I had to learn how to actually generate leads and how to actually convert and how to actually help people in a market that wasn't very good.

You know, and we've seen, so that was 2007, you know, this market is usually in a seven-year cycle where we kind of tail and we climb and we tail and we climb and we tail and we climb and those cycles can be in seven years. So I've been through a few of them. And I would just say that you can get really sidetracked by the noise, but all you really have to do is just put your head down and beat the market, right? Like every market is going to be different. It's never, the teeter totter is never in the middle. We're either in a buyer's market or we're in a seller's market.

And it's momentary where that teeter totter is balanced in the middle. You just have to beat every single market and just put your head down to work. Like work works, right? Yeah. You just have to understand the market that you're in and adjust accordingly. And I think if you've got that mindset, you can't let the market affect you. You just have to learn how to beat it.

Wow. Okay. So in 2007 then when you came in, did you already have a database or, you know, coming in as a new agent, did you do anything differently like coal calling or networking a lot to be able to build a business when the market was refall?

So what was cool about my previous career is before, like in radio, when you're when you're when you're when you're when you get ratings what they used to do is they used to email or they used to mail out these forms to people and they would have to fill it out and you know it was usually the the the mom in the house would fill out the form and it would say who what radio station she listened to and all that kind of stuff so it was all about recall and then she would mail it in and radio stations would get credit for listenership that they didn't really have because the mom would be filling it all out for the kids and for the dad or whatever so we knew

that so i had that i i knew that it was about recall and and and you know for me it's about um People, everybody has room for two things in their brain, two plumbers, two electricians, two realtors. And as long as you can hold number one mind share in radio, we called it P1s or position one. So, you know, the first button on the dial. So if you can occupy that mind share when the word realtor or real estate pops up, if you can be the person that your name pops into their brain, you're going to have that recall position. So I took that approach. We also database marketed very, very hard in radio. So I was able to translate a lot of those skills into real estate.

But, you know, like anything, I'm also a person that will try anything. So, you know, I used to get off, I tell this story every now and again to new agencies. You had to try everything because I just get off the air off my radio show at like 9.30 in the morning. And I've gotten kicked out of more Tim Hortons in Calgary than I can count because I went in and I just, I would go buy $20 worth of Tim Hortons. Hortons $2 gift card. So I'd have 10. And I would make sure that I met 10 people and gave 10 people a coffee before I left. I was ceremoniously escorted out of many Tim Hortons for doing that because they thought I was soliciting. But, you know, I would do that. And then, you know, did it really work? No, but I'm also a believer that activity breeds activity and you've got to try. So did I get any deals out of that? No, but it got me out of my comfort zone. It got me to the point. It was like, okay, you know, now I can get out there and try a few more things. You know, I tried door knocking and doing that kind of stuff. But really what it came down to is falling back on what my skill set was and what I knew. And so what I knew is how to be a database marketer.

And so once I really became comfortable with that, that's our bread and butter. 85% of our deals come from our past clients, our sphere and referrals. So we're lucky that way. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, that's great. So, but I love what you said about activity. activity because, you know, you've got to try something until you find something that really works

for you and double down. And you certainly double down. Yeah. And it, not everything, but everything works for everybody. Like, lots of people don't love my style of business because it's very hands on. It's very, you know, you're interacting with people. It's very relationship rich. A lot of people don't like that. So it doesn't work for them. You know, a lot of people love door knocking. That, it doesn't work for me. But anything will work if you believe it and you commit to it for sure. So that being said, then, you know, 17 years now, how big of a database of past clients do you have now? I've got over 1,000 past clients. So I think I've got 1,200 past clients in my database.

Our database is a lot bigger than that just because we've collected leads over the years. Right. You know, sphere of influence people we know, people that haven't bought homes from us. But our database is about 1,200 people of past clients deep. Wow. So really, you don't have to venture out. You just have to keep cultivating that database, your goldmline. to be able to generate new business from that and you no longer have to pay for new leads

unless you're building a bigger team. But do you buy leads? We do actually. Yeah. For me, it's about having numerous pillars of lead gen. So we try to have four pillars of lead gen running at all times. And we do have a team. So I've got other agents that need leads and need to be fed and not everybody has the

luxury of having a deep database. That's right. I had a new agent come onto our team a few months ago. He has 20 names in his entire list. know a lot of people. So for somebody like that, we supply leads for them and we teach them how to convert them and put them through that process. So yeah, we do buy leads. Some leads, you know, are better than others. We try and be creative with how we're spending our money digitally to generate better leads. We spend an awful lot of time on that. But yeah, we do,

and we do some Google pay-per-click as well. So, yeah, we do buy some leads. But it's not a huge piece of our business. It's about 10% of our business every year. 10% of your business and 85% would be your past clients and center of influence. And, you know, the rest would just come from, maybe sign calls or just miscellaneous, right? Yeah, sign calls, open houses, that sort of thing. So, yeah, the other 5% gets filled in there. So you're not really going out there.

I'm not going to say you're not hustling, but you're not doing the cold stuff anymore, certainly. No, I don't, so I don't do a lot of the cold stuff. I mean, if it's inbound, yes, I definitely will take it. Lots of listings, I will definitely go on those. I don't chase our leads. Those are primarily for our team members. I don't want to get in the way of that either.

I'll show them how to do it. I'll help them with it. But I want our team members to have those leads be theirs. I'm not going to take from them. I really rely on the business that I have built. And then our system of follow up, we're very systematic in how we follow up and how consistent we are with our touch points in our database plan.

We've got a fairly extensive database plan that people hear from us a lot. Oh, that's great. How many touches would you say in a year that your past clients would hear from you? 48. 48 touches minimum. 48? 48, yeah. I wish I had people to look at, but that's phenomenal.

Okay, so what I've been taught anyways is my VIP clients would get 12 calls from me every single year. And my Bs and Cs would get at least once a quarter. And then email once a month. Got it. And then mail something of value once a quarter. Okay. So that's not 48. Yeah, no, our cadence is a little higher than that.

So you'll get, so every month you get an email, you get a market report from us, an emailed market report at the beginning of the month. Okay, okay. And my cadence says, I want to be every two weeks. I don't want two weeks to go by without you seeing something from us. So middle of the month, we will send you an item of value. And it'll either be mailed or emailed or both.

And if you're getting both, then it'll be a different version of that, of the mailed piece. And so a lot of our past clients get hard mail in the middle of the month once a month. So there's 24 pieces right there, right, of the 48. We do four client events a year. So every quarter, we do a client event. And anybody in our bought, sold, referred list or our closed list that wants to be on that list, which is about 90% of the people that we've sold to, they get invited to these events and they can be anything.

We've held block parties in the past. We've bought sections of the arena at a hockey game. Oh, wow. We do a fall event at a farm yard here. It's kind of like a petting zoo and an amusement park kind of idea. We do a big family event there. We're doing a movie night coming up here shortly to kick off the summer. So we do client events like that.

And then we do surprise gifting twice here where you get tickets to, the home show or the renovation show or things like that. We do, there's a market report or a, a CMA, right? You, you,

you want to do a CMA for all your past clients unsolicited. If they bought, if they bought a home from you, you want to give them a market evaluation every year. And then it's up to our agents to do touch points throughout the year and have a reason to call. So our agents are on a call cadence of, you know, for your A clients.

I mean, I don't really break out our past clients. into A's B's and Cs anymore because to me everybody's just as important as the last person. And if we haven't touched a year in a while, we just, we still want to reach out and give them that phone call touch too. So we want to be calling our clients at least once a quarter and social media touches all of those things. And so birthday cards, Christmas cards, it all wraps up at about 48 touches a year. Wow. Okay. I'm taking notes right here. I'm bringing back to the team. Thank you so much for sharing that, Ken. And, you know, so right now I want

to switch gears a little bit. Do you have a family? I do, yeah. Okay, how many kids? I have two kids. I've got a 19-year-old daughter that goes to University of Victoria, so closer to you in their second year, and then I've got a 16-year-old son in high school. Wow, amazing. Okay, so you were grinding all through the time when they're growing up. Yep. Yeah. So what was that like? I'm asking for myself, because I got a five-year-old and two-year-old. Yeah, well, you know what it is, how much of a grind it can be. Yeah. I know you've got a fairly large team too. So hopefully, you know, you're able to leverage a lot of that while your kids are little.

I didn't do that when my kids were little. I was out there just grinding. So, you know, I tried to make it a point of controlling my calendar. Controlling my calendar is a really, really important thing to me. You know, I would say after the first year or so in real estate, I did not show houses on Friday nights. Those were movie nights with my kids. You know, and so I would block that off. You know, yeah, did I work a lot of weekends in the beginning? Sure. But as they got a little bit older, I was able to control my calendar a little bit and direct traffic a little bit better to carving out those times for your kids. I think that if you're in this business and if you're a solo agent, let's say, and you've got a family, you've got to treat them as the most important appointment in your calendar and you block their time first and then you fill everybody else in around that, clients included. And so as long as you've got your calendar under control and you've got

those blocked times. I mean, if a client wants to go out and see something, it's you've got to have backup or have somebody ready to show a house if you're a showing agent or a buying agent and have that all set up. You've got to be committed to the most important thing in your life. And if that happens to be your family, you block them in your calendar and you do not deviate from that. A client doesn't take precedence over that. I love that. And I just went to propel in Toronto and Brento was speaking there. He said, uh, your family, your health and faith, you know, those things are take precedents and real estate gets your leftovers. Yeah.

And I think you have the same message is that your most important client is actually your family. Absolutely. 100%. And look, it's not a game of perfect either. Right. You know, like there's lots of times that I've missed dinners or missed out on some things because, you know, we're just, we're flying. But my family also understands that.

And they, but they also see how hard I work at fitting them in and making sure that they are my priority. I make sure that they know they're the priority. They're the priority. They're the reason I do this. And so as long as you can carve all of that out and make that, you know, if you can win 90% of that, I think you've won the game. I love that. And I appreciate you saying that it's not perfect because nobody is.

Yeah. And you're going to miss some stuff and that's okay too. But as long as they know that you're working hard to make them a priority, they feel that. I think that's the most important thing. And so now 17 years later, you're all. almost an empty nestor, you know, three, three years from now, your son's probably going to go away for school. Why do you still do this? That's a really good question.

And there are a lot of mornings I wake up asking myself why I told you this. I'm not going to lie. So, you know, I love my business. I can't say that I've been, you know, I will say for a lot of my career, I wasn't, I was a bit of a lone wolf. You know, I didn't, I didn't hang out with a whole ton of realtors, but I loved my business. I love that part of it and I loved our clients. I love the relationships that I've been able to build. And in a database-centric business like we've built,

where our whole business is built on deep relationships, it's just been, it's enjoyable because you get to work with such cool people and you meet such awesome people. So I think it's the relationships more than anything. And at this point, you know, I'm transitioning as a team leader out of production. You know, I don't do nearly as much production as I used to do.

And I'm handing a lot more off. That's a hard one for me because I'm super competitive. So it's tough for me to give business off. But I am transitioning into what I really enjoy, and that is helping new agents, helping veteran agents that maybe, you know, haven't been able to crack a certain level, being able to coach and teach and mentor them. So I'm transitioning more into that kind of a role on our team. And I really, really enjoy that side of it.

it, that mentorship side and the coaching, the coaching part of it. So, you know, that's the cool thing about this business, too, is that it's not just about selling. There's so many other ways to evolve and grow yourself and your business as you get older. Because look, I'm, you know, at the age where I'm getting quite irrelevant for first-time homebuyers. So, you know, I've got something on my team that is amazing with first-time home buyers. So they get all the first-time homebuyers. I'm just, I'm not that guy anymore. So I just enjoy helping agents build their businesses now. I love that. Do you feel that, you know, coming over to this system here at EXP where we have an opportunity to help other agents get compensated, did that give you a new lease

on real estate? Yeah, I think it was, it was a really, I came over to EXP for a whole bunch of reasons. But yeah, one of the biggest reasons was how I could now affect realtors that wanted to learn and didn't exactly feel like they had to stay on. our team for me to help them. Right. Like now you can come into our team. You don't have to stay. Come in. Learn what we do. I'll give you everything I got. Like, we'll just give it all to you. And if a year from now you want to get out of the nest and fly on your own, awesome, I want you to do that. I want to get you to that point. And then if you stay in EXP and you're in our RevShare group, well, now you're in our mentorship group. And so we're still helping you. We're still there to

support you. I'm still accessible to you. And that to me was the biggest reason to come over to EXP was that whole, the ability to mentor people that were no longer on our team. I love that. And you kind of have a, you know, join our team and then you can graduate from the team as well. And I'll help you become a solo or help you build your team. And it's definitely possible at EXP. Yeah, absolutely. I don't, I don't think anybody should ever stay on a team unless they, you know, they really, really want to. I think a lot of people feel like they join a team and then they're trapped. And I don't want that ever to be the case with us. I want you, you know, If you join our team and you don't like it, or if you join our team and you're ready to fly in three months,

okay, let's talk about it. Let's get you to the point where you need to be. You can go. Like, I just want to help as many people as I possibly can. I love that. You're so easygoing. Ask my wife if that's true. That's amazing.

How important do you think in today's market, mentorship is and coaching is for agents, brand new or not. Oh, it's huge. I think it's really, really huge. You know, we're in Calgary, where Vancouver probably was about five years ago, I'm guessing, like we just maybe even a little bit longer, where we're going through explosive growth here right now. And so just like any other market, there was a massive amount of real estate licenses granted after COVID. And so we've had a huge influx of realtors.

So there's a lot of experience in our market. And the market is absolutely insane. So there's a lot of mistakes being made. You can see it on the other side when you're negotiating deals, you know, young agents coming in thinking that they've got it all figured out and they just, they don't. Like there's a lot of there this can be this business is meant to kick the table out from under you. It really is. So, yeah, mentorship in a market that's this crazy right now is super important. So I'm on, I'm on, we've got a couple of brand new agents on our team and we're, we're on them all the time.

Like we're in contact with them all the time walking them through. everything. So is it like encourage, encourage, encourage, or is it holding them accountable? Like how hard are you on them? Well, accountability is, I'm a believer that accountability that we tell everybody and they come on our team. I'm like, look, you're committing to the fact that accountability is love, right? That's what we do here. I love that. Okay. Yeah, it's the highest form of love in mind.

Right. in. So yeah, we hold you accountable. There's, there's certain things you have to do. There's certain meetings you have to attend. There's metrics you have to hit. But for our new agents, it's about, okay, so we got into this experience. This is what happened. How do we do it better next time? Or they're calling me, hey, I'm in this. This is what's going on. How do I do it? So we have a really open, we have a really open dialogue with all of our agents, like real time. We're there to help walk them through everything. Every agent on our team is willing to mentor any other agent or answer any questions, be it on a team chat or be it on a phone call. I'm fully accessible. We just,

we want to be there and encourage our agents and walk them through things. And if mistakes happen, which they are going to happen, you know, we just basically do, okay, what happened? Great. What do we learn from it? How do we move forward? And let's not do it again. That's fair. That's fair. That's good. Accountability is the highest form of love that you can get to a person. I really, really love that. Are you getting coached right now or mentored? I take a lot from, I like dabbling. Like I'm a person in that I will take something from everybody. I think you can learn from everybody.

I think you can learn from, I learn a lot from brand new agents still. Oh. Yeah, I think you can learn from anybody. So I've had a lot of different coaches over the years. There's a few guys that I really follow and that I really believe in. But currently, no, I don't, I don't have a full-time coach myself. No.

Oh, awesome. Okay. So I've been, I've heard recently that sometimes you need to listen to yourself. And I go through phases like that. So I will go and I will get coached and then I'll feel better and then I'll be like, okay, look, you know, this isn't anything that I don't know. It's just I need to get out of my own head. So a coach will help me do that. Like I just find that a lot of coaches just help me get out of my own head and get back to you. doing the things that I know how to do, the basics of real estate work works. And sometimes we can get sidetracked and distracted and we can get squirrel brain. There's bright, shiny object syndrome where, you know, we're in a world of technology and everybody wants to sell us something in real estate to help us generate more leads or a better website or, you know, this is shinier. And so you can get really, really distracted. And I think that, um, what a coach can do for you and what a mentor can do for you is get you back on track to what you already know and get back to the basics. The basics still work.

It doesn't matter about technology and AI and all those things. You use all of those things to your advantage as leverage, but the basics of real estate still count. Why do we get so lured by all those things like, oh, yeah, if you do AI, if you do social media, you no longer have to cold call or talk to people? Like, how much of that do you buy into? I don't. I think you have to use those tools. But they can't be the sole focus of your business. And I think that you have to be an adopter of technology.

I can't say that I'm an early adopter, but I'm definitely not a late adopter. I'm not in the middle either. I'm semi-early. I like to see things kind of unfold in front of me before I'll jump in. But you do have to leverage all the new technology that's coming out to make your business better and to stay current. I 100% believe in that. But it's also because real estate commissions are a much. multi-billion dollar industry in North America.

And so everybody wants a piece of that pie. Yeah. So everybody, you know, there's, everybody's a coach now. Everybody has a podcast now. No offense. I've got one too. So, you know, like, okay. I was going to say.

Yeah. You know, everybody, everybody has there, it's a multi-billion dollar industry. Everybody's a coach. Everybody's a mentor. Everybody knows how to generate leads better than the next person. Everybody's got another system that they want to sell you. And so I think we just get so inundated with, people trying to sell us stuff, it can be distracting.

I really do. So what you're saying is the basics work and work works. And why do we ever get away from the basics? Because I think we get to a point, a level of success where you plateau and now that becomes your baseline. And you want to grow again. I know that that's how it works for me. I will plateau. I'll get to a level of success and then I will plateau.

And I'm not comfortable at the plateau. So I'm now uncomfortable again. And so I want to be comfortable, being uncomfortable. So now what I want to do is I want to grow again. So I'm looking for something to help take me to that next level. I know that that's what happens to me. It's when I hit the plateaus and I don't want to go backwards. I start looking for the next thing instead of just really focusing.

And so I've always got to come back to focus on what got you here. This two will pass. Do the basics, get back to the basics that we preach to everybody. And, you know, when the time is right, the business. will take off again. But sometimes you are going to plateau and you've got to be okay with it. Yeah. Yeah.

Wow. This has been really eye-opening and it confirms my belief is that you go and talk to people, you go on appointments and then you're likely going to take some listings or make buyer sales and you're going to make money. And if you could just make as simplified as that, like that's all we do, really. And then we put in systems, AI, social media. Yes. But if you get away from the basics, you're in a world that hurt, I think.

Absolutely. I'm 100% with you. You broke it down perfectly. That's it. That's the basics of real estate. That's as simple as it gets. And if you can if you can just focus on the simple and not get distracted, you'll be just fine. And on our team, we try and make it that easy for our agents. Like you have four things to do this week. These are the four things that you've got to hit. That's it. Just go. Whatever you've got to do to make these four things happen. Awesome. Go do it. But these are the four things you got to do. I love that. I love that. Thank you for confirming my thoughts as well. Well, Ken, if you were to advise a newer agent, especially maybe in Calgary specifically, when the market is so hot, there's like one month of inventory. Buyers agents are starving. What would you tell them right now? Well, at first I would tell an agent to join a team where they've got support and they've got, that would be the number one thing is I truly believe that teams are the only way to get started in the business now properly, where you're going to get mentorship and coaching and. training from somebody that's in the trenches. I think that's super important. Um, I think there's a lot of brokerages, not our brokerage, but a lot of brick and mortar brokerages that are more like hair salons where

they're just renting chairs, right? Like you just, you know, really, it's the hair salon model. You rent a chair and that's all you really get. Um, and so I, I just don't think that those brokerages are, uh, are doing new agents of service because that they don't train like they used to and you don't work for the brokerage anymore. You just hold your license there. And so teams have now, become that that middle ground where you get the training in the systems and the processes and you understand calendaring and a call cadence and why you need to follow up and you get those basics ingrained in you. So my first piece of advice is find a team that you align with that aligns with your value system. And not every team will be, you know, there's not a lot of people,

not a lot, not everybody aligns with our value system. Right. I've had agents come in to our team. And our number one core value is you do the, do the right thing. The money comes later. I don't care. I don't care about the money. I care about making sure our clients are well served. And that will come back to us in spades. And so I've had agents come on our team. And they're like, well, what do you mean? Like when we're doing a deal together, I don't get preferential treatment because I'm on your team. No, you don't. The client gets preferential treatment, not you. And so that doesn't work for some agents. But it's how we operate. So you've got to, you've got to align yourself with a team that that fits your value system, number one.

And then you've got to find a mentor that has systems and processes that are duplicatable and repeatable, that are easy for you to follow, so that all you have to do is plug it in and you'll be able to play. I love it. Plug and play. If you're a newer agent, reach out to Ken. Ken, how can we reach you on social media and follow you if we want more content? Yeah, so it's at Ken Regal Group is our team page on, that's Instagram and Facebook. LinkedIn is just at Ken Regal. And then our YouTube channel is the Ken Regal Group 2.

You can always hit me up text-wise at 403-8-8-3-5-6-338. That's actually my direct cell number. You can get right to me that way. You won't get filtered out. And then my email, our website, you can reach me there and get my email is Ken at krgroup.ca. Our website is krgroup.com. No AI answering for Ken.

No worries. Just can answer. If you get my personal stuff, I actually answer. Wow. Amazing. Ken, it's an absolute honor to be in partnership with you here at EXP, man of integrity, do the right thing and the money will come later, guys. Guys, what a great episode today. Ken, thank you for being here.

John, it was awesome. I really appreciated the invite, and thanks so much. Thank you.