KGCI: Real Estate on Air - James Tostevin Number 3 Agent in Australia

Episode Date: January 30, 2025

Welcome to the new version of Let's Talk About Real Estate Podcasts, the podcast for real estate agents everywhere. I'm Lisa B, and together with Beyond Kunzel, we're going to talk about everything real estate. We talk about what's working, what's not working, what's new, what's old, technology and anything else to do with real estate. We'll answer your questions from the Facebook group. Let's talk about real estate. So if you have a question, we can help. Join the Facebook group today. And again, welcome to the show. All right, James Tosman, thank you so much for joining me this morning. Pleasure, so that's fine.

Happy to try and provide some wisdom to those that listen to this Zoom recording. I can't wait. Okay, so you've been in real estate for over 30 years. You've achieved many, many accolades. One amazing achievement over the last five years, you've been ranked number three agent in Australia. Another amazing achievement is you have six children and two grandchildren. You must be really busy.

Yeah, no, it is hectic. My life is, I would say, yeah, it's pretty much full on, but I love it. I mean, it's good, yeah, great fun and I've been real estate for 35 years and I've sort of range from sort of one, two, three and four. But look, there's some amazing operators in Sydney in particular. I think they've sold the March and a couple of the Melbourne Asian. But like I always say that agents really in the top 20 or 30 or probably even a bit more. It's hard to separate them really.

I mean, they're all, I'd like to think, pretty accomplished to what they do, Lisa. Yeah, professionals, yeah. So before we go on to oil, I also want to mention that you provide training to real estate agents. So that's at James Tostovann Training.com. Correct, yeah. So I still enjoyed doing that. I've done it for 25 years and I've fairly feel the appeal of my training, apart from the message. I'd like to think is positive and motivating

and provides great energy and lots of ideas for people that are prepared to embrace those ideas as I'm doing and certainly talking about what I'm currently doing in the market as opposed to what I did 5, 10, 15, 20 years ago. I'd like to think the training's relevant because I'm in the market day to day and therefore it's applicable

and easy to relate to in terms of all the people that are in the industry at the moment that can listen in to any of my presentations. Exactly. And you've got the benefit of hindsight what worked a long time ago and you can kind of mix things up a bit, can't you? And go like, I remember we used to do that so many years ago and bring it back.

And yeah, everyone thinks it's a brand new thing. Yeah, I agree. Absolutely. All right. So if we can launch, you know, we've got half an hour together. So this, I guess, calls kind of for people that are relatively new to the industry or people who are in a sales slump, people who are really looking for answers. So, you know, kind of put yourself in somebody's shoes that's, you know, kind of not sure

what to do, you know, that they're looking for the answers of how to move forward. So what's the key to success in lead generation? What tips would you give agents on how to find listings? I think the key thing, Lisa, I mean, there's a couple of things. Obviously I'm known for my nurture and prospecting calls. that's probably the number one. Well, there's probably a few things. I'd like to hope and think I've thought of highly in the industry, but certainly the prospecting nurture part of my business has been the core part of my business and the reason I've been successful. And I appreciate if you

haven't been in real estate for long than three or six months or 12 months, people have said to me, I could bring through my database in a matter of a week. So where do I keep finding new leads and new opportunities? One of the things that baffles me about real estate agents, is when someone leaves an organization, which happens more than we'd like to think, there's a lot of what we call orphan data. There's a lot of data that's not picked up by salespeople. And there might be good intentions of the senior people in the office, but they just don't get to those people because they're busy enough with their own databases.

So to me, that's a huge opportunity for people. So it might be either data where someone has left an agency, or it's old data where they've had no contact, no phone contact, no meaningful contact. for, you know, two years, three years, five years or longer. So again, those people are really, they should be open slather. So if they've had the office structure and set up, there's no reason why those leads shouldn't be given to someone who's enterprising, energetic,

and wants to create a much bigger database. Because without a database of about 500, I'm not saying it's an impossible business, but it's certainly more challenging. And then when you get to 500, ideally $750,000 should be, you know, on your radar. In Melbourne, I'm not sure about other states because I haven't worked, yes, I've done training, but I haven't worked personally in those markets.

It takes five years as what I call a qualifying period to be successful. And that can vary a bit, of course, depending on the person. We've got, we've had some agents that have defied that, but in a really, really competitive market, which certainly we're in. I think it's about five years. So that's one critical thing, Lisa, the lead generation part of it just comes through. But, you know, one of the trips with real estate, as you know, is frequency of contact, what to say when you ring, how you build the bridge between you and the client,

how it becomes a, well, I guess a natural and easy rapport with someone. And not to say that's not, you know, it's going to be created over time with some people. But unless you can get that aspect of real estate right, then it's going to be really, really tough. And you obviously look at areas of your business which are effective and you keep track of where you're getting listings from. There'll be strengths, but there'll be some weaknesses there with any agent and what can you work on to generate a lot more opportunities. But in our market, obviously like any market, I think open for inspections to provide a huge volume of opportunity, especially with people that aren't necessarily selling straight away. I'll say, look, we're not selling for a while or we're long term.

and long terms there might be three, five years, seven or eight years. But I've got a massive head start if I track those people, and you've got to track lots of them. And referrals naturally are really important because there's less pressure to get the business and less pressure on your fee as well. So sort of a combination of reasons there. But, yeah, I think that's just a really, really important one.

Yeah, awesome. Okay. So what's the key to success in listing high numbers? What tips would you give agents on how to list well? Yeah, I think that's a massive. of topic obviously but I think listing in big numbers comes around sort of your attitude because a lot of agents to I sort of always talk about the ripple effect a lot of agents don't have the ripple effect they sort of tend to sort of list and sort of climb up them out and then slide down the other side selling them and then go we need more listings we need to go out and prospect and and hunt for

opportunities and suddenly there's a lack of listings and they create more opportunities then again focus on those. The ripple effect has been consistent. Yeah, a lot of agents have a bit of a roller coaster. So I think the attitude too is that too many people I've satisfied with a, either a smaller number of listings and sort of that'll do me type attitude. That's enough in terms of income. That's enough in terms of listings. I'm not sure if I could cope with beyond that because they've never had the team structure that allows that. If the right team structures in place, then obviously it means in terms of volume you can list a lot more, Lisa. So that's a really critical one.

Listing itself, I think, is really understanding your points of difference. So you go into any listing presentation and say, okay, what's going to potentially help me, and in my case, Marshall White, attract this client to our agency. What's going to impress them? As Michael Schiff, God always talks about when you're making a point to a prospective client, what's the benefit to them? What's the benefit to the vendor? So that's important.

I think the other thing is when people miss listings, they always ask what they did wrong in effect. It's still the way you asked that question. But you want to know why you were beaten to the opportunity. But equally, when you get a listing, it's critical that you ask why you got the listing, why they chose you and your company over the other two or three or four they were considering.

In our market, it's normally three, sometimes four that they'll consider. So I want to know what beat our major competitors. So in terms of listing, more probably's lesser, I reckon that's absolutely crucial just to learn those lessons in when you both lose and win opportunities, because that will certainly catapult you

to much bigger numbers of listings. If you listen, listen intently to what they've said to you, and like anything, you learn from it. Because a lot of agents get on the defensive, that agent was a cheaper fee. Bottom line is, you weren't good enough.

I wasn't good enough. If I missed the listing, I wasn't good enough and you weren't good enough. So that's a really important thing. But a lot of agents have got, yeah, it's important to have a thick skin. I think a lot of agents just say, no, it wasn't my fault. Yeah, no, definitely. Taking responsibility and learning from each one, isn't that? Okay, so you touched on it briefly.

So the key to success in vendor management. Yeah, I think timing. I just think too many agents list are probably less than then they go too hard at the vendor. like after the first weekend and they use those old embarrassing sayings where we've got to hammer the vendor and you know, you'll kick them in the shins, crunch them and it's a bad education of the vendor. I mean, obviously that very cliched saying well-listed half-souled, but it's true. So if the relationship's good, you've been able to assess it realistically. Now, we all do with vendors that are high.

I mean, of course, you know, I was joking my training. Has anyone ever dealt with a greedy vendor? I mean, they're always going to exist. But, you know, it's inevitable. But I think it's really important that, you know, if we have, which are normal campaigns are four weekends for three weeks, that's a normal auction campaign. It's really important.

I mean, if it made a disaster start, then we have to have a meaningful chat to wave endors. But, you know, there are agents out there that don't do vinyl reports, that don't give the vinyl something in writing, like ever, or spasmodically or occasionally. Like, it's just not good enough. I don't want to sound like I'm being tough, but we do a mid-campaign report.

end of campaign report in a three-week auction, and on occasions do a report a few days in, depending on how it started. But I'm not talking about just a one-page summary. I work a lot with my son Charlie, and his reports are outstanding. They're very, very detailed about what we call probabilities, possibilities and people that have shown interests

and decided against it. So they're really, really detailed. They certainly reference price. But the important discussion that you have around dental management, Lisa, is face-to-face. It's really important you communicate. And don't go straight into price when you sit down with the vendor, because it's almost predictable. It's really important you talk about the campaign.

We talk about seven buying signals that we look for. In order, we say repeat inspection, contract request, a buyer's advocate or agent looking on someone's behalf, like a building inspection, what we call archie center inspection, a different settlement terms, different deposit, and the family coming through. where we've talked to vendors about the 5Ps, you know, what produces sales. Well, it's the 5Ps being the property itself, the position, promotion, presentation, of course, the last one's price. So not many vendors are going to think they're probably, how many vendors say, I know I've got an awful house. They don't think that. They don't say we know we're in an awful position. They don't say that.

And really as an agent, you should be able to control the promotional part of it. And if the presentation is not good enough, then you need to address that. And you really need to address it before it goes to the market. But if they haven't listened to you, then it's really important you address that, again, early in the campaign. And then, of course, price. You know, and then it'll say, but I know it's not price. We just haven't had any offers. I said, Lisa, there's a message in the silence.

We haven't had any offers because we are skimming over the market. We are missing the market. We're attracting lots of terrific prospective buyers, but they're anticipating more for their money. It's as simple as that. Yeah, perfect. So it's a big topic again. And you mentioned earlier that having your assistance to help with Vendal Management. Well, Charlie is, yeah, he's not, and I appreciate it's a word that's used a lot.

He's not so much my assistant. I mean, we just work together. Yes, he's a lot younger than me. He's 28 and I'm a very young 54. But as a lot of people say, energy of someone in their 20s. But Charlie and I work, and Scarlett also, a Mandarin, Cantonese, sweet. agent that in our market's really important, critical in fact. So they definitely help as well.

And we just tag 10 to contact, from phone contact to text messages to emails. I'm a massive believer in personal contact though. It's like an agent that rings a vendor after a Thursday, Saturday inspection. What do agents typically do? They focus on the best things about that open for inspection. They don't, for example, so at least we had 12 groups through today, we had two repeat inspections. We had two other buyers showing promising interests, and they both requested the contracts. But what about the other race, as opposed to going through each of the buyers and saying, Lisa, this is the reaction.

This is a response we got. Look, it takes more time, but it's so worthwhile. The vendor is really important they know and get a strong sense of what have been the appealing aspects of their home. You always talk about positives first for the vendor. It's critical in our reports as well. then a lot of agents talk about negatives. I never talk about, never use the word negatives. It's limitations or its concerns the buyers have got.

You know, cliched sayings again, Lisa, but I say to Vendor, look, yes, I've never sold the perfect house. I'm aware that buyers point out some obvious things. I'm absolutely conscious of that. And we try to remind buyers that if they've got 10K requirements and get seven out of 10, they've done really, really well, eight or nine exceptionally well. Not all buyers appreciate that.

Like some are looking at seams for that perfect property. And are not prepared to compromise. But a good, a healthy percentage of people are prepared to compromise and we're able to work through that. So there's a vina management is a huge thing. And obviously, anyone that works with me or alongside me gets constant exposure to how I handle that, especially in meetings.

But yeah, great believer in face-to-face communication. And use to the pause. Yeah. If a vendor declares their position on price, and you pause and you listen, and you say, well, Lisa, I'm not quite sure where those expectations came from. It's not in line with any of our discussions before you appointed me through the campaign. And look, whilst we remain very positive about what your home has to offer, those expectations are not realistic.

They're not in line with the market. And if you maintain your reserve at that level, you're not likely to sell this. weekend. I'm just being up front with you. I'm not being negative. I'm just being realistic about the current buyer interest. So that's again how I'll talk to an indoor. Nicely, but firmly if I'm having to bring that. But I'm not a I'm not the old Hatchet man. I don't yeah, I don't crunch the Vindor's because if you do that as you know Lisa, it tends to get their back up and they push back and think this person just wants a sale. They don't care about me. They don't care about the last $20,000 and I go Kaster. You know,

I had one two weekends ago, two two, two, two, ten. Sold it 35 minutes later for another $55,000. You know, and I know Lisa, it doesn't make much difference to the fee on the $55,000. No. But to the client, they think you genuinely cared about their outcome. You didn't just get a sale and move on to the next sale. And that's what the average agent is known for, really. Yeah, 100%.

Okay. So what advice would you give agents with regards to managing buyer inquiries? and therefore buyers. I mean, a lot of agents don't even get back to buyers and don't manage buyers whatsoever. So what would your advice be? Yeah, the crucial thing is just assessing motivation. And of course you've got an easy rapport with someone.

But the tempting thing with prospecting calls is to ring or gravitate towards the people you've got that good rapport, where you have got an easier rapport with them. But are they really motivated to buy? So I want to know, at least if I meet you at an open for inspection, And they're all polite questions, but I want to establish how long you've been house selling for, what you've looked at seriously.

Have you been on something recently, even through one of our competitors? Have you made an offer on something off market? They might give me a lead, by the way, if I ask you a question like that. Also, you know, so, Lisa, I just want to be clear, are you ready to buy? Are you just researching in the market? I know just, just only that I met a buyer on Saturday, James, this is the second house we've looked at. We're moving from Sydney. We're not going to buy for a while.

So, yes, there's going to be different buyers you show more interest in than others. Of course, at our company, and like a lot of companies, they focus very much on buyer sellers. Some people that say, I'm not selling until I bought. That's it. So, of course, we focus on them. People that have been referred to us, again, they're still an important, because you want to impress the person that made the recommendation and the person, of course, it was recommended to you. And just a really very motivated buyer.

But part of the skill, as you know, Lisa, is identifying who's worth following up and who isn't worth following up. Because otherwise you could spend 20, 21, 22 hours a day, just ringing people, which, you know, is beyond a possibility. So you've got to be skilled at that. The other thing is, when I'm talking to buyers, they've been looking for a while. And you say to me, Lisa, you tell me you haven't bid on anything. You haven't made an offer on anything privately. I'll say, Lisa, if you had your time over, is there anything you wish you'd look at more seriously? Is there anything you wish you'd pursued with more vigour?

Is there anything you wish you'd bought? You know, what's come closest to what you've been after in all the house hunting you've done? I mean, there's so many scripts I could talk about. But these are some of the ones, some of the questions I ask buyers, to really establish motivation, what's come closest, then that gives me a strong sense about, you know, what they're after. Awesome and where they're at, yes. Okay, now I love this question. If you had to relocate to work in another area, say, Borkloose or somewhere,

somewhere completely different to where you are now, what would you do for the first three months to ensure that you are successful? So you have no database, you have nothing, you know no one. You just picked up and put there. What would you do? I remember a single woman in Perth, a saleswoman,

and she'd moved from Queensland, and she'd moved, she had a new relationship. And I just remember being astonished that the company hadn't given that person just one opportunity, just one, to work from. So in other words, to generate leads. to get a bit of confidence and to do a couple of deals. And directors and managers are just at fault more often than not, Lisa,

with not giving someone some early momentum, you know, and people say it's not working for me. I'm not sure if I'm comfortable with a company, and I'm not getting any support. How often do we hear that lease from the industry? So I don't think it matters who it is, whether you've had 35 years experience like me or some of the people listening to this have had six months a year, two, three or four.

It's really important they'd be given what's called a management, or two or three, ideally more, just to create momentum. So they meet prospective vendors, they meet prospective buyers, then it comes back to their motivation in that marketplace to generate activity. And even though some things might be pretty hackneyed and cliched about letter dropping and door knocking and awareness in your marketplace, but all of those things are important. It's amazing how you can strike up conversations with people when you approach them. And yeah, you'll meet some rude people, of course you will.

but equally there'll be plenty of people that are willing to chat and one of the things is you know if you say to someone they said do you know anyone that might be thinking of selling buying or selling or would like some real estate or probably related advice the easy answer from you is yes or no as opposed to Lisa who do you know that might be considering a move is this you know in that situation I'm trying to establish whether there is someone in that person's network the other thing I do with early nurture calls in that new environment Lisa and say, I appreciate you're not looking to move. But if you heard any whispers,

are you aware of anyone in your street that is keen to move? Because I've got a couple of buyers I'm dealing with at the moment that are really keen to buy in Mossman Street or whatever the street happens to be. And again, it's amazing how you've got to find the right person. I've got a bit of luck with the gossips in the street. It's amazing how they talk.

Obviously, then you get down to joining, whether it be the local cricket club, footy club, whether it be sponsorships, anything you can do to get your own brand out there in the marketplace. You know, I always say produce a fridge magnet, not a calendar, because you have to, of course, do one every year. I can't understand agents to do calendars. It completely baffles me. But a fridge magnet with emergency numbers is more important than a business card because you've got more chance of that being retained.

So all of those things are important. And obviously, when you walk into an office, you say to the director or manager, who's left your company in the last year, two, three, I can almost guarantee you, Lisa. So there's no way that data would have been tracked properly. So I walk into a new market in Sydney. That's what I'd be asking for. Opportunities, listings. Just give me a couple to get going and give me some names and numbers to work through where I'll generate and do the hard grind and generate opportunities.

So again, big topic, but that's some of the things I'd do. Awesome. Okay. Now we've got a few more minutes. What objections do you make sure you cover in any listing presentation? Well, normally it's quite amusing to me that agents that I've been convenience for such a long period of time haven't worked me out yet. But I don't know that's sound arrogant. They just come up with the same thing.

Like James is too busy. And he's handling all these properties and he's not going to be able to devote personal attention to you. And I tell you what, they don't have to speak too many clients that buy and define people. Friends, they know work colleagues, people that are family members that have sold through me that can give. them a very, very good personal account of dealing with me. So obviously, I'll talk about what I call a reverse bomb, you know, agents plant bombs and vendors absorb that information. And so I'm not sure if you're aware that James handles this sort of number of properties typically. My main competitor years ago used to distribute my commitments every weekend, how

the auctions and opens I did and I said, I think, how embarrassing. You know, that they had to focus on me did that degree. So it was a compliment in some respects, but embarrassing on the other side of the ledger. So for me, it's probably more encountering what they could say. So if I didn't have market share, Lisa, and I knew my competitor talked about market share, I say, Lisa, I find it really puzzling that agents talk about market presence, market share. I mean, surely, when you look at the way agents operate nowadays, buyers don't follow. a particular real estate agent, they follow property.

They follow a group of properties that might appeal or a particular probably that whether I'm handling or one of my competitors is handling, they're going to come and have a look at the property. So at the end of parents, how they're treated at the inspections, how they're followed up, the negotiation skills that an agent has. And of course, before all of that, when you do meet them, the qualifying questions you ask.

So I take, you know, through those qualifying questions. So I guess I'm prepared around those sort of things. And I guess with my style, my approach, with the time I dedicate to a listing appointment, I don't come across as being too busy because I dedicate enough time to that listing presentation. The other thing I get from people is, James, I'm worried about how busy you are. So even if that comes up as an objection, I'll say, Lisa, but I've been in contact with you for the last 14 years. So just as a matter of business, if any other age I've kept in touch for the last 14 years, I've never had one that said, yeah, I've had someone that's kept in touch more than you

because no one keeps in touch with people more than I do. And again, I don't want that to say, I've been confident. I back myself and I know the things I do are effective. So, look, I try to be prepared. And when I said before, when you miss listings and you get listings, you need to know, you need to be aware of what your opposition is saying. The other weakness of real estate officers that don't share their information. So when you get a listing, miss a listing, what helped win you the opportunity?

why do you miss the opportunity? Share that with your colleagues. Learn from it. Individually learn from it. Make sure the office learns from it and when you do have those wins against you know any of your competitors, especially your major ones, make sure the whole office absorbs the why you got it, why you missed it because that's absolutely critical. So look I'm just I guess I get to know my opposition. I get to know what they how they present against me and there's some of the if you like the arguments they use and the what I would call points of difference, but it's all about your points of difference being better than any competitors.

Love it. Okay, one last question. How do you set goals? Do you set huge, scary goals, or do you set sort of more small, achievable ones? I think with goals, well, as you know, least, a lot of Australians don't even set them. And I remember listening to John McGrath, who we know is one of the legends of Australian real estate. But he said to me, or I said in a conference,

and I've never forgotten a lot of people aim at nothing and have a high success rate, aim at nothing in life, have a high success rate, which is very true. A lot of people don't have goals. They think it's a bit corny. They think it's a bit Americanised. I think it's really, really important.

I mean, I think it's important to write them down. My opinion, Lisa, is that if you're reaching those goals, for example, your targets in a month, listing numbers, sales, numbers, gross business, if you're consistently doing that in the first 8, 10, 12 days, even two weeks, even if it's stretched to 16, 17, 18 days consistently, you're still doing a bit too easily. First third of the month, first half of the month.

If that's happening too often, then clearly there's a message that you're not setting the bar quite high enough. Equally, if you're going to disappoint yourself every month by setting a lofty target, great to have that aim. But you don't want to disappoint yourself and feel deflated. And it's a business you've got to have a lot of energy. You've got to have a lot of, I mean, it's got to have a natural initiative and get up and go. But I think goals can certainly, if you need revitalising, I think they can be great.

So it depends what's important to people, Lisa. And you know Eric was heard for years, and you've got to know you why and why you're getting up in the morning. And I agree with that. But ultimately, for me, people, they differ in terms of the cars they drive, the houses they own, condition of the houses they own, as in how recently renovated, or is it a different? new home. How new is it? Where they've got a beach house, whether they've got owner probably interstate, which

they go to on holidays, the trips they go on, which part of the plane they sit on, which hotel they are actually in. So all of those things, it's not that I'm materialistic, I just think as cliche as it is, about freedom and choice. Why wouldn't someone want freedom or choice? I don't

understand, I can't fathom why someone wouldn't want that. So to me, it's easy. And I love sitting goals this year. It's been challenging not being able to travel. But that's definitely one of the major things that gets me to bed in the morning. And for me,

just providing a great life for my six children. I mean, I've got five that are 25 to 30, and then Jack is four and a half for my second marriage. And I was so worst at the ground my kids walk on. But, you know, the highlights of my life for my 50th birthday four years ago going with my family,

18 of us to the south of France, to an amazing hotel. Oh, wow. A phenomenal experience. And, you know, I've gone to the Super Bowl twice in San Francisco and had to Florida this year with my twin boys who just love the gridiron, just phenomenal life experiences. So, you know, if someone wants to look up the price of Super Bowl tickets and they want to make their eyes water, Lisa, that's all they have to do is Google it.

It's scary. It's scary. It's frightening. We're doing it where you sit. It's frightening. And then you've obviously got airfares and hotel and, yeah, accommodation, a lot of sort of bit. So I hope I'm answering the questions. So for goals, yeah, look, people are driven by different things, but I often joke in training. You know, if someone said to me, you know, you've got a choice here.

If you work hard, you're successful, you could go to the South of France. You could go to Amalfi in Italy or you could go to country Victoria or country New South Wales or country of Queensland. Well, yeah, I'm sorry, I think I know where I go. Exactly. In a normal world, I'd go overseas. But we're all different. Yeah. All right.

So just in summary, thank you so much. That was amazing. So your training, is it all online? What's your training? I've been doing more Zoom training, but as you know, the trick with Zoom is when you speak to groups, it doesn't matter whether it's 10 or 20 or 100, 200 people, there's no reaction.

Like in terms of getting a response and, I guess, instantaneously getting a sense of what people are feeling and thinking. Also, probably for me, the breaks, the morning breaks, the lunch breaks, people do come up to you and talk to you one-on-one. how do you cope with this and how do you cope with that? Whereas there's sometimes a bit embarrassed to ask that in a Zoom session. But the training, I've travelled to New Zealand, least, and I've travelled essentially all over Australia,

not the Northern Territory, but all over Australia to do training. And the training can be a half day or a full day, or Zoom sessions, of course, can be an hour, an hour and a half or two hours. But I still enjoy doing it. As I said at the very start of today, the relevance is I'm not encouraging or asking people to do things that I did in my previous life, in my career that finished some years ago. I'm doing them now.

And that's what I'm encouraging people to do. So they can certainly approach me about doing some training next year. I believe I've got a huge amount of knowledge and experience. And I like the thing, I fast-track a lot of agents over there, fast-track their knowledge and their success. And they've been motivated by my training and energized by it. And that's a critical part of what we do, as we both know. Fantastic.

Well, you're a legend in the industry, so why wouldn't somebody call you really? Thank you, Lisa. Feel free to reach out again and we'll have another half an hour together. That'll be great. Thank you so much. Have you. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you for listening to Let's Talk About Real Estate Podcast. We hope you enjoyed the show. If you have a question about real estate, then please join the group on Facebook, also called Let's Talk About Real Estate. For those of you who are interested in EXP, please join us. at 10 a.m Brisbane time every Wednesday morning for EXP Explained. Thank you again for joining us and don't forget to subscribe to the podcast and see you next week.