KGCI: Real Estate on Air - Landlords: Protect Yourself (& Your Rental Property) From Bad Tenants

Episode Date: June 6, 2025

This is everything they never told you about real estate, helping you scale your business, implement AI, and capitalize on the latest tech and lead gen strategies. And now here's your host, the AI queen of real estate, Carrie Sovey, and the queen of Canadian real estate Jennifer Jones. Welcome back to the podcast, everybody. I'm riding solo today, but I have an amazing guest. We ting baloo. And for those of you who don't know her, she is the founder of a site that literally saved my life.

Open room. This is a, you know what, we think thank you for coming on today. Let me just start by saying that. I really appreciate it. I've been trying to get her on this podcast to talk about the situation with lords and tenants, because she is the founder of a very important web. where landlords and tenants can post their judgments for, you know, the hopes of other landlords or tenants being able to make more informed decisions about who they're renting to, which is so

important in the environment we're in right now when it comes to the LTV. And we're going to get into all that. So let's start by saying, thank you and welcome. I am so happy to be here, Carrie. this has been almost a year in the making because you had invited me back in July 2023 and we're now in at the end of May 2024. I know, I know. I feel like you reached out to me on, was it on social media?

That's how we met a while ago. I was going through an absolute nightmare with one of my tenants who was also a close friend of mine. You know, usually realtors, I don't find a lot of realtors that get subjected to, you know, nightmares on this kind of level. Because hopefully we all know how to vet tenants and prequalify them. Hopefully, that's a whole other thing we're going to talk about. Okay, let's start by talking about open room. Did I describe it properly?

What are, you know, how, how, how is it? would you describe open room and who's it for? Yes, Carrie, open room is for anybody in the rental ecosystem. So if you are dealing with rentals, you're renting from somebody, this is going to be beneficial for you. And right now, as of May 2024, what open room offers to the public is an aggregated space where tenancy-specific court orders are held together and we make it publicly searchable by everybody. So, for example, example, if you're a tenant and you're considering a landlord that you're going to be renting from, do a search inside the system. See if they have passed judgments against them. See if they've gone to the LTB, which is the landlord tenant board. What's going on? How do they take care of maintenance? But the thing is, if they don't show up in the system, then they're probably good. The only thing is, we only have a small set of orders in the system. We don't have all of it. So we're trying to help people make more informed decisions from that point. Yeah, and it's important to stress to the tenants and the

landlords out there that have had some challenges and experiences. If you get a judgment from the LTV, please upload it because open room can only do so much. It's on the landlord and tenants correct to upload their own judgments to help inform others. of potential risk. That is the majority, Carrie. What's so interesting about Open Room is that, yes, we crowdsource from the community of whoever is going to be or whoever is a party to the court order. The other part to Open Room is crowdsourcing through individuals who just tend LTB hearings.

And then they will do something called the Freedom of Information Request after they've gone to the hearing, gone in to listen to the hearing. So they'll jot down the address or landlord tenant names and then basically send a document to the LTB requesting for the documents. And then they'll upload it into our system. That has been fascinating to us. I love that. So have you ever thought about employing people to literally do this as a job to ensure that all judgments are getting uploaded? because open room is such a valuable tool as a landlord.

I'm sure it is for tenants. Trying not to be, I'm trying to be objective here, but it's hard for me as a landlord who's been through, you know, some nightmares. I'm supposed to be objective, but I'm not. So I'm all about protecting the landlord. I'm just going to put it out there. Yeah, have you thought about that?

Is that like something that you're planning on doing in the future? But the thing is, I mean, Carrie, if you want to invest in open room, we can chat about that offline. But right now, how we're running open room is that we are bootstrapped. So when it comes to funds, we have to look at where do we put the funds in the best priority, best return on our investment, right? So while that is an option, the other option is we've built this network effect amongst our community. So the more people who know about us, who talk about us after they have gone to an LTB hearing and then encourage other to do it, that means that open room gets brought up amongst the community more and more.

And it empowers each person who is using open room to do it. If I just did everything, I don't know if that same community effect would be there. Yeah. You know what? I am a huge advocate for open room. So I will talk about it as much as I possibly. I've had, I've talked about I put out webinars on how to protect yourself as a landlord when I was heavily practicing real estate. I'm more on the coaching side of things now. But yeah, I was putting out webinars, educating as many landlords as possible. And when I get tenant application, I'm checking references and I'm calling landlords, I'm literally telling them, hey, there's this really cool tool and resource that's available to us for free that can provide.

possibly prevent and lower your risk of any any costly mistakes or outcomes. Yes. Let's talk about what the part like why open room must exist in the first place. And that comes down to our broken landlord and tenant board. And that's my personal opinion. and maybe others, maybe you have a different one. But yeah, ever, I feel like ever since COVID, the LTV is, is, you know, protecting the tenant and possibly even, you know, doing damage to small landlords across Ontario. I'm not a fan. I hear you. I'm not a fan.

So you're obviously, you're obviously know what's going on there. we were at some point waiting 10 to 12 months for a hearing, not even in Toronto, but just like Hamilton, Niagara where I am. And landlords are losing their homes. Tenants are squatting, not paying rent because they know they cannot be illegally evicted without an order from the landlord tenant board. And because it would take a year to get one, we're talking. We're talking. tens of thousands of dollars. Landlords being homeless, not being able to live in there. Like, we're seeing this all over the news, and we've been seeing this for a long time. And some would say that it's getting better, but I don't see it yet. So what are your thoughts

on what's happening at the LTB? When I look at the LTB, the landlord tenant board, they are a very reactive solution to what has already happened. What I mean, by that is if you're in a tenancy dispute, something bad had already happened. Maybe it could have been prevented through education. So I love the fact that you're going out there educating people on, say, for example, the tenancy vetting steps. That is fantastic. But for many newbie landlords or housing providers, they don't take it seriously. They don't take the fact that they are running a rental business seriously. They don't internalize the fact that they are running a business. So then they just think this is, passive income, I'm going to get monthly payments and I can pay down my mortgage. They don't look at the maintenance. They don't think about that. So when I say that the tenancy dispute happens and then you go to the LTB, LTB can only do so much. So Carrie, I differ from your opinion a little bit. I know that it is so stressful going to the LTB because that is not where any of us want to land up, right? How I see it is that it's that reactive approach at the end.

But with all that backlog, it's not like the LTV is the only solution. How I see it is that they are one solution to the big housing crisis, the problems that landlords and tenants are facing, but not the only one. And then I see open room as another solution to that, but we're also not the only one. So what I tell people is if you have a solution, take action. Stop complaining about all of the problems that are out there. But like you, you have a podcast.

You're coming out here. you're educating people, more of us should do things if we believe we have the solution. Yeah, absolutely. When I look at how much money I lost, so I'll tell you a little bit about my situation. I rented my house, which was my baby. I lived there for a long time. I know. I remember we talked about this.

Yeah. And you were really nice about it. And all that niceness kind of slapped you in the first. face right yeah continue yeah um he was a friend a close friend had a giant dog that was 160 pounds a giant cat that was about 40 and i knew he was going to have problems um getting a rental as i was selling his house so i let him move into my house things were okay for a little bit um and then yeah i i said hey you know he was there for i don't know i feel like a year or so. Obviously, mortgage rates went up and I'm like, I don't know if I want to keep this house,

you know? And he's like, well, you know, if you don't want to, just let me know and sell it, you know, like no problem, very easy going about it. And I put it up for sale. And he decided to stop paying rent and extra his knowledge of rights. Basically, basically told me, I know you cannot get me out for a year. So I'm just going to stay until there's a court order. So I literally, I am not a person that can hide my true feelings. I had to be the bigger person and try for about six months to pretend to be friends with this person, to try and resolve this without going to the LTV. I gave him six months notice.

He would agree and then change his mind. He was, I think he was mentally unstable. But yeah, it was, it was his house now. That's how he felt like it was not my home. It was his home.

And it was just a freaking nightmare. Finally, he signed an N-11. And an N-11, is a mutually agreed upon agreement to vacate for any reason on any date for those who know. However, most people don't know that the tenant can change their mind. So it was rough. It was rough.

I'm trying to conceal my anger through the whole process. I lost a lot of money. But we didn't have to go to the LTV, which was great. He ended up leaving, but he left the house completely destroyed. Like when I say completely destroyed, it was like the doors were off the hinges, holes in the wall, dog poo, cat poo all over the hardwood and carpet. Yeah, my pool was liner was was damaged. You just, I posted video and pictures on the internet. I made a TikTok about it and it went viral, like literally viral.

And it was so upsetting because I was so emotionally attached to this home. And yeah, it was, I couldn't sell the house because our market was absolutely garbage at the time in Hamilton. So I ended up renting it out again because I just couldn't even sell it. It was just so much. Yeah, I just, like, I'm going to put this out there on, you know, on this. podcast available to the public. I tell my tenants when I vet them and I give them a chance and I want to hope for the best. But I tell them, you know, the fine of illegally removing you from my house is probably going to be less than the money that you could cost me if you do this to me.

And I have no problems doing that. And I will tell anybody. I don't care. I don't care. I haven't done it, but that is my new solution. Because unfortunately, no matter what kind of tools and resources we have, life happens, people change. You're never 100% protected. Until something changes at the LTB, I will never allow somebody to put me at such financial risk ever again, ever. I mean, Carrie, it wasn't even just a financial risk.

because it left me when I went through my situation so traumatized. I couldn't believe it. I was pregnant at the time when I had to deal with my tenancy situation. And then when you look at your home being completely destroyed and you mentioned that it felt so personal, yes, as small housing providers, it is so personal. You put in all of that money that you saved, you earned. Then you buy that house. You're hoping to have good returns on it to hopefully help somebody in your kids. case, right? Because they were going through a tough situation, getting a rental, and then it comes

back and completely bites us in the behind. It's awful. That experience, it breaks my heart. And every story that I hear, it continuously breaks my heart. And this is why open room exists. Earlier, you asked me, why do we have to exist? It's because people need to be held accountable for their actions. Period. Period. Absolutely. Okay, so I've got a funny story. I, found open room through all this. So I'm the type of person. I'm not just going to sit there and let shit happen to me. That is not me. I hired the paralegal, but I also learned the system inside of it. Like inside and out, which is why I've heard of doing these webinars. I also learned that we have another problem. Realtors representing landlords and tenants without knowing what the fuck they're doing.

And it's putting and tenants at risk. So I started holding these webinars, hopefully, and I started putting it a lot of content, hopefully educating realtors, but also educating landlords and tenants. Like, listen, you need to be careful who you hire as well. It's just, it's like the wild. It's like the wild. old west out there. So yeah, I, um, it was, it was an absolute nightmare. I was so emotionally attached to this house. I cried during the whole renovation. I didn't have the money to hire somebody at the time because I was already paying a very significant second mortgage for a very long time. Yeah, but I got through it. I got through it. And, um, yeah, I'm not a bad landlord. That's the thing. I've had rental properties before. And, I only rent to people with large dogs. I'm huge into animal rescue.

I have my home for babies and I find that tenants with large dogs have a serious problem of getting rentals. So I only rent to them. And my thing is like I don't care about damage from animals. Okay. If I have hardwood floors, I'm renting the person with large animals. I'm expecting to have to refinish floors for five years.

This is this is just an expectation. But that's something, a financial expense that I'm willing to take. So for this to happen after all of that, I was just really, really just. And then I couldn't even sell the house. Oh my God. It was a freaking nightmare. I know. I know.

And it just sucks because you have all of this good intention, but then it's not reciprocated. And in fact, the other side looks at it and completely takes advantage of it. And what's awful is that it was a nonpayment of rent, a situation. So say, for example, they were giving you a hard time. That's solvable. But at the end of the day, if they were damaging your property intentionally and then also intentionally not paying rent, that I believe is criminal activity. Right?

even though individuals that are doing it today are not charged, but imagine, Carrie, going to the grocery store and taking whatever you want from the grocery store and not paying for the goods. Is that allowed? No, you'd be charged with theft. But then from an LTB or non-payment of rent perspective or damaging houses or property, you basically have no repercussions. And that sucks. Yeah, and that has been my thing the whole time. How is this not theft? Literally, how is this not theft? So, okay, so I had to rent my house out after this. And I got to tell you, because this is what I started to do you earlier.

So I found open room. I found single key, like a bunch of really good resources to help protect myself. And I get a call from this guy. He's like, you know, I'm in finance and I'm moving back to Hamilton. him going through a divorce and this would be a great home for me. It's a very small bungalow, but very executive, like pool hot tub. It's a single house. Let's be honest.

Yeah. So he's like, you know, I make all this money. I can send you everything you need. And this is what I said. So I said, just send me a picture of your driver's license. And then we'll go from there. And I went right to open room. And I found his name.

So this is how you use open room people. Take a picture of their driver's license because that's their legal name. And you search that name on open room. And it's as simple as that. And I found him. Interesting. And he had just did a non-payment of rent for six months at his last place. And he knew I was a realtor.

So I'm just like, what the fuck is wrong with this guy? Why is he lying? So it turns out I did a Google search of her name. she's a realtor. So I called her and got the entire scoop. And I called them and I'm like, did you not think? I said, first of all, I don't know if you're aware, but there's this site out there. And he's like, well, I'm going to pay her back.

I owe her money and I'm going to pay her back. I'm like, great. But your name's never getting removed. That's what you just did to yourself. Like, this is what tenants need to understand. End, open room, that is there whether you pay that person back or not. Like, think about that. Wait, when you're weighing the risk of being kicked out in a year when you, they finally,

when your landlord finally gets their hearing, what are you going to do and how are you going to rent a place in the future? Because that is there forever. Good. And we need to keep talking. Yeah, we need to keep talking about it because I believe that individuals right now who are bad tenants, bad tenants, meaning the professional tenants who are repeat offenders, is that they will go on to their next victim. They will search for that newbie landlord who doesn't know about open room, about Canley, or all of these vetting tools. They just, because remember earlier, we were talking about these landlords just thinking that this is passive income and it's so easy.

they're going to unfortunately keep taking on victims. But if we can keep talking about it, keep educating each other, we're going to impact at least one life a day. We're going to save another landlord from going through the bad experiences that we had. And that's one of the reasons, one of the top, top reasons why I had built open room with my co-founder is that we wanted to share our learning, making sure that other people don't experience what we had gone through. It was awful. My goodness.

But, you know, I also want to talk about, I want to speak to the landlords out there that complain about their tenants for not a good enough reason. So I may be a little jaded now that I've been through it a little, like a nightmare, but, you know, I've called landlords for my current tenants. They're like, they were awful. I would not rent to them. The daughter drew on the wall. And I'm just like, I said, did they not pay rent? Did they not leave when you wanted them to leave? No, no, no.

She left right away. And I said, you're effing lucky because she could have been squatting there for a long time. And I just, I want to make sure landlords have some perspective here, you know? Absolutely. I had a tenant. The tenant right after that, it was a couple, great couple, paid right. on time. They were there for three years, signed, or sorry, three months, signed a year lease. And she called me, well, I was just about to go on stage in Vancouver. And I was nervous and about going on stage.

It was my first speech. And she said, I've moved out. I moved out last night at midnight while Rob was away because he would, he would work for like weeks at a time away. And she said, explained that she was in an abusive relationship with someone that was, you know, had like issues, many issues. And my response was like pure panic because now I'm thinking to myself, like I literally have PTSD from this. And I'm thinking a person that is not a good person could possibly not leave as well. That's going through my mind, but I chose to be supportive of her. And I was like, that's okay. You're out.

You're at a better place. You're going to move on with your life. This is fantastic. It's all right. Could I have? What happened? What happened after with that tenant? That state.

He ended up leaving. Thank God. But like, I was in pure panic mode for three weeks until I found out. And I just kind of like, I let it go. And I'm like, because I'm like, this is. not something to even get upset about having a tenant. For me, yeah, I had to cover a couple months, actually a few months of rent until I found a new tenant and cleaned up the house and stuff. And that's not ideal. And when your mortgage is just like $4,000 a month, that's a lot of fucking

money. But I made it and I did it and I didn't make a thing about it. And then she actually called me and said, hey, so you're going to get a call from a landlord. She's like across the country now. You're going to get a call from a landlord. And I'm hoping you can give me a good reference. I always told her I would. I'm like, yeah, she's like, you should know that I'm back with my ex. And I said, I'm not going to give you a reference.

Like, I will give you a good reference because I will always give you a good reference. But I'm going to be honest about what happened with this landlord. And he called me and I said, listen, she's great. Like, there's like no issues. Like if it was just her, I would rent to her. However, I was left in a very tight financial situation because of this. And it could happen again. And if you are not in a position to be able to cover one to three months of rent and if,

if she has to decide to leave again, then I would not rent. And she was upset first and I'm like, why are you upset? like I could have come after you for the remainder of the lease. You pulled a midnight move. You know you mean? Like I'm not the bad guy here. But yeah, I feel like we need to put what a bad tenant is into perspective because she wasn't a bad tenant.

She was a good tenant who made poor choices. I feel like I'm seeing because I joined a lot of online groups and communities for landlords. Holy. Share some. What were they? Share a few. Share a few. I recommend for landlords. All the rest of them. It's like the tenants, it's just such a nightmare. Tenants call us parasites. It's like a thing. They think that we're living off of them and we're sponging off of them. It's a really warped mentality and concept. And I don't understand it at all. But there's a lot of anger in a lot of these groups. But even in the good groups like solo, I see landlords. complaining about very minor things.

And it's like, guys, being like being an investor and being a landlord, like investing in real estate is not passive investment. Like this is not a passive income. Like that's where most people like do not understand. You know, like if you out, you have to go and fix stuff. Like and put into perspective like your tenant is, you know, whatever, making a mess of the house compared to your tenant costing you $20,000 plus and non-payment of rent. I just feel like pull your heads out of your ass and be thankful. My God, my tenant just

moved and didn't give me more than 30 days notice. I need to go after them. You're part of the problem. Just let them leave. Like, you're lucky they're leaving. And maybe this is my PTSD talking. but I just feel like perspective. Yeah. Well, Carrie, if we look at the newbie landlords or the landlords or housing providers that are giving other landlords a bad reputation, bad name, it's because they're uneducated about what it's like to be a truly responsible business owner. If they knew, then they would probably make different or more informed decisions.

And that's partly what we do at Open Room now is besides the. court order or something else that we do is a training program. I go out and I educate a lot, similar to you on social media, about my mistakes. Don't make them. Don't make the mistakes that I made. And one thing that I want to talk about when you said leaving house empty so that you can clean it up, find a next good set of tenants is a common phrase that is said by a mentor of mine is better vacant than a claimant. I approve that. Right? I approve that.

Yes. Let's just hone in on it one more time for your listeners, is that it's better to have your house vacant. Take your time vetting whatever you need to do to make sure that who you're going to put inside your home is going to be one that you are not going to regret. because once they move in and you hand over the keys, it's going to be very difficult to move them out. Yeah. Absolutely. So what's the future? So I asked you this on a different call we had.

Open room is available across Canada. So landlords across Canada can search. Are they going to see the amount of orders? Like, do you, are people able to post orders in Alberta? or Quebec or other provinces? Yes. The great thing about open room is that we are allowing everybody across Canada to post court orders. So if you have a court order or an order decision from the residential tenancy board in British Columbia, send it over to us.

Or if it's at like a superior court level, send it in. It's not specific to just the tribunals or the first level. of the tenancy dispute courts or quasi courts is what it's referred to, right? But as long as you have that official document, that judgment, that decision, send it into us. But what we hone in on right now is Ontario because that's where we all started or I started with my tendency dispute. So we wanted to make sure that we really, really dominate the Ontario market. Get it right over here before we go super deep into the other provinces. But all other provinces, we do allow it. Does that make sense? Absolutely. And I love to see, I can't wait to

see how this community and how this site builds across Canada. I feel like there's so much opportunity to expand this and we should have a talk about this because, you know, the only, you know, people are resistant to make any, you know, make their voice heard. They think that they can't make any difference. Building a community like this is so important and the larger we can build it and the more educated we are as a community, the louder our voice is when it comes to the government and hopefully some serious change can happen. Two comments on that. When it says, when you said people might think that their voice isn't heard or isn't important, number one is that yes it is because open room, we have spent zero dollars in

advertising and it's all through word of mouth. It's because people like you in our community talk about us, share us, and talk about the importance of why open room and why it's important for us to exist, how to use it. That's important. Okay. And then part two is that when people on the internet are talking about us or when they call me, give me feedback, I listen. My team listens. We are reading, we are watching the episodes that people come out talking about open room, even if I'm not a guest speaker on it, or on Reddit, on Facebook, sending emails to us. We are reading every single comment and we take that feedback very, very seriously so that we could turn that feedback, those suggestions, the complaints even, into what we're going to be building in the future. So I want everybody to know is that, yes, your voice has importance.

Yeah. So the whole purpose of this podcast is to let as many investors and current landlords know. Open room is a thing. And if you have not Googled it, you need to get on there and check it out because it could literally save you tens of thousands of dollars, maybe more. Yeah. There's so much more coming. And I cannot. wait to share it with your listeners in the future. This should be like a regular podcast, like just for awards. I know. Maybe not. I swear I swear I did not pay Carrie to sell all of this on this podcast. Thank you very much, Carrie.

Yes, anytime. And I really appreciate you coming on. When I first approached you about this, you were not the face of this company. you wanted to be anonymous and I respected that and that was so long ago and I'm so happy you're out because you know giving a face to the name and you know authy and a story is so very important you're going to find that this goes to a whole other life. Oh yes. For your listeners, just for some context when I first messaged Carrie.

Well actually Carrie, you found us first and then I messaged you. but it was the first time we had actually talked offline, right, or async through email, because I wanted to talk about you and your experience what you had shared with your listeners today. And I was like, okay, Carrie, tell me a little bit more about your situation, but you can't share that I was speaking with you because I want to stay anonymous for the time being. So at that time, July 2023, I did not want we ting out in the open just yet for multitude of reasons because I was still part-time on open room.

Wasn't really thinking that it would go anywhere, but it has gone somewhere now that I've quit my job to do this full-time. And seeing that trajectory come around and then being able to put myself in front of an audience and having the opportunity to talk to your audience, it's very, very awesome. I am filled with joy. So thank you so much for having me on the podcast.

I really appreciate you coming on, and we have to do this regularly. Thank you so much. And I hope the listeners got a ton of value today. It surprises me every time I bring up open room, how many landlords are like, what? What is this? Oh, my goodness. Thank you so much.

So I hope that we reach so many more. So thank you. And have a great day. Thanks for listening to everything they never told you about real estate. be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode. To connect with Carrie or for more information about her coaching program, check out Carriesovey.ca or at Carrie Sovey and Associates on Instagram and TikTok. Thanks again for tuning in and we'll see you next time.