KGCI: Real Estate on Air - Live Natural with Ali Devin

Episode Date: May 1, 2024

we're not sacrificing anything aesthetic. We're not sacrificing anything ergonomic by being mindful. We're just pausing and thinking about it and then making a good decision instead of rushing through to check everything off the list, right? Right, right. It's not going to be apparent in the final end result that you did everything in a really sustainable mindful way. It looks the same. It functions the same. It's just going to last and it didn't hurt anyone in the process and if it's ripped out it's not going to hurt the earth and getting ripped out you know sure so I grew up in Los Angeles and I had a very similar upbringing to a lot of interior designers where you know every gift that I asked for growing up was you know new

curtains for my bedroom or when I was really young you know played furniture for my playhouse in the backyard or you know I would check scratch on the back of an ottoman when I was really young and do floor plans for my Barbies. I just have always, you know, kind of really been into spatial design. And I have not had a career change. So I'm one of the, I would say, few people in my industry, in my age group that have not had a career change. I have done this for over 20 years. And I would say my first few passions were arts and antiques and that's kind of where I started. In college, I worked at the Getty Center while it was being built, the one in Brentwood.

And I worked at Bonham's Auction House. I worked at art gallery in Italy and studied in Italy, worked in antiques in San Francisco. And so that really informed, I think, kind of the basis. of the two things that I love most about my job. And then they also both happen to be the most sustainable things that you can incorporate into interior design. I had toyed with the idea of kind of staying in art and antiques when I was in my early 20s, but we would get pinged so much

for advice on if we're doing this piece of art, what is the wall color, what is the sofa underneath it? And it just made sense to me to kind of have more of like a holistic offering where we're kind of doing everything. And so, you know, I just started doing more basically because I was being asked to. And then, yeah, I would say from my mid-20s on, I kind of incorporated all of it. I see. So at what point you became more aware or more interested in specializing in what we call? sustainable design.

Yeah, I would definitely not say that I took a really linear path. I have always just as an adjunct to my career been very chemically sensitive, very emotionally porous, and that's just kind of like who I am as an individual. And so basically for me to have my job, I had to learn how to show up the job sites and not be affected, what samples we could have in our office. you know and really educate myself as far as to all the materials, all the construction, you know, different methods that we could use that don't have chemicals. It was basically just born out of necessity for me to be able to do my job. Yeah. And then as far as us really putting it into practice in our studio, you know, I would say most people come to us for aesthetic reason.

and for experience and not for sustainability. I definitely let everyone know like, hey, I know all of this. It's anything in this atmosphere of interest to you. Some people will say, not at all. Some people will care about maybe solar panels or their carbon footprint. Some people might have an autistic child and care about the kids' rooms. Some people might, you know, really want to do a healthy master suite because they just want to live to be 125.

Like everyone has a different prioritization of it in their life, I would say. And we just kind of let them know, we know about all of the things. So you just tell us what's important to you. But I would say that we are in the infancy of people really wanting to kind of have an acceptance, I would say, more than anything, about this being an issue because once they accept it, then they kind of have to act on it, right? So there's a lot of not wanting to know, not wanting to engage in the conversation, just kind of blinders because people are so maxed out already to have something else they need to educate themselves on. They're just like, I'm done.

I totally understand. But I found it really interesting that it was actually actually. of your own personal need that you had to kind of take this route. Yes. And so, you know, on your website, you have, you know, it's, you do indicate that you specialize in sustainability. So how can we define sustainability in your world, in your line of work? And how are you, yeah.

I feel like sustainability is one of those words that means something different. to every single person. Exactly. And I would say for me, it is doing whatever is in the best interest of the earth. So just being really mindful about all of the materials that you use, how you use them. Do you really need to buy that thing? Right. And then just there's a lot of life changes that happen in our industry, right?

We all go into projects the best intentions of having like forever houses. And then people get transferred. People have an unexpected child. There's death or divorce, right? And so things change. And you might have spent five years working on a house and then sell the next year unexpectedly. So I just try to be really mindful of if this doesn't stay in your hands and somebody else comes in and doesn't want the aesthetic choices you've made. If it goes into a landfill, is it going to hurt the earth?

Is it going to hurt the environment or did it come from the earth and returning back to the earth? It's not going to cause a problem. It's more just thinking of everything, you know, as a cycle. And, you know, how can we kind of opt out of the cycle of constant consumerism and just buy less, repurpose all of that? but then also can we be mindful about not having things that we're specifying that are going to adversely affect the Earth if they go to the dump? Right, right. Yeah, so now how you mentioned that you were chemically sensitive and emotionally porous, I love that term. So how do you merge that well-being part in the sustainability definition and in the, in the, in the, work that you're doing yeah I would say that I'm because of just like who I am

and the sensitivities that I have kind of come onto this planet with I just innately incorporate those two things into my practice regardless of somebody cares about it or not it's just part of who I am so by working with me they're going to get that so it's just stuff like basic principles of feng shui and really creating good energy because a lot of it is just very intuitive, you know. And so it's just incorporating as much as we can into a space, whether they understand that that's what we're doing or not, right?

And for the chemicals, it's just, you know, really thinking outside the box. Like, do you have to use that chemical? Because it didn't used to exist. So how did they used to do it, right? Can we do it like that? Or before this existed, how was that done? And it's a lot of just kind of pausing and saying, hey, this didn't exist 100 years ago. It wasn't very long ago, you know?

Like, what did they do the thousands of years before then? Because there's still a lot of structures that are standing from that time. They did something right. Yeah, so as a green realtor, I'm always like kind of find my path of balancing. Like, what's green? meaning green is often considered like environmental sustainability and wellness. But I have, I have had conversations with people who have like extreme sensitivities to chemicals or even like, you know, electric magnetic field, EMF. So there is a very, I don't know what there's, there's, there is a different ways that,

these sustainability and healthy environment is kind of merging, but it's not quite synonymous. Totally, I hear you. I think in our lifetime, it will become more synonymous and they will kind of start to merge together because whatever is healthy for the earth is healthy for the Earth's inhabitants, right? That's kind of common sense. So when we think about what some people may define as sustainability, is it really sustainable? Is it sustainable long term? Or is it actually a Band-Aid?

And it's just better than an alternative, but it's not actually the best solution, right? And I think that that is kind of a really Western solved to most problems. Let's invent something. doesn't exist today, that could be used, that's better than this, but also is that necessary? Can we just not use it altogether? So there's a big part of I think sustainability that is just pausing and saying, do we need to do any of this? So when people say like, is this more expensive?

Well, if you don't do it, then you spent no money. So no, it's not more expensive, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But creating something that doesn't exist in the world that has, you know, not maybe mass appeal, that could be more expensive. 100%. But that's not the answer. That's the band-aid. Right, right, right.

So is there any elements of your design work that you find it harder to implement that philosophy? So far or like building, you know, material? any any like you you cover everything you design everything right we do everything so I would say when it comes to decorating I don't really run into problems we definitely have a core group of people I've worked with forever that we completely trust from you know window treatments to area rugs furniture upholstery all the textiles so I kind of have my toolkit of These are all the best materials.

This is how we're going to make them. This is how we can finish them. This is how we're going to upholster this. Like I have a toolkit for all of that. Construction is much harder because there are building codes that do not support the environment. They do not support longevity. Nothing needs to be built to withstand time. That's not part of building codes.

So we're fighting that and then we're also fighting a lot of just how the system is set up. There are definitely some contractors that are open-minded you can have a conversation with. They are willing to try anything and they're fantastic. And then there are some that don't fall into that, you know, buckets. And I think for the most part, they have to first accept first and foremost that they are putting their health at risk. every day going to work. They're also putting the employees out at risk every day when they're going to work. And just that alone, it's like a lot of people can't get there. The people that can get there, then have to really buy into this idea that like incremental changes actually do add

up, right? So even if there's still these toxins that we're putting in, we take out these, it makes a different and anything that they're willing to do or be open about is really helpful and then you have you know the small percentage of guys that are just willing to do anything and they're amazing but they're feeling far between right right right i find that to be the case yeah so how are you conveying your message to your clients or even the people that you work with who may not be again we just have a conversation and we don't push our agenda on on anyone. We are just basically like, we know this, this and this. Right. Do you want to know? And a lot of times it's no or it is, well, tell me what

the options are and then they'll digest it and then they'll say, I don't care about this, but I care about this. People also don't think for the long haul either. So when they are faced with the decision of stay in a rental for three more months, months and then order these paints and finishes that you can't go get at Home Depot, which are going to take a little bit longer, right? They say, I can't stay in a rental for three more months. Where as in reality, if you can't say in the rental for three more months, this is going to affect you, the health of your family, your pets, and the environment for 40 years.

You know, it's just, there's a lot about this that requires patience and we have just changed so much to not be able to have patience with anything that the biggest shift is very much mental and it's not really what we're putting into practice and doing some avant-garde things. It's just a mental shift. I agree. I agree. So I'm just curious. what is your kind of a foresight or vision or how do you see that our world is going in

terms of creating a home space I mean do you think that more people are becoming more at least receptive so I feel things you're doing yeah I feel like it will happen in our lifetime I think it's going to be a slow progression. But I think back at like my childhood and I remember, you know, before there were whole foods everywhere, like we would go to the health food store and that was like, wait, where are you going? My friends would be like, what is that? Like it was a really strange concept. Organic food was a really strange concept. I remember I had eczema growing up because I, you know, alerted to so much stuff. I had to get prescription shampoo and

visioner in the eight because they didn't have fragrance-free fallate-free you know sulfate-free shampoo available at a store so you know that's 30 years ago in the last 30 years we've come a long way so now we have access to beauty products you know skin care makeup maybe quasi healthy food and I think we've made a lot of progress and I think people really do prioritize their houses and I don't see that going away anytime in the near future so I do think it is the next shift that people really start to connect you know anything that's kind of going wrong in their health to an environment and it might not even be their house

It might be where their house is located. It might be, you know, the sites that they're on. It could be a lot of things, but it's largely environmental. Yeah, yeah. So I want to talk about the book that you created. So tell me about the book. I went through this. Thank you for sending me.

It's beautiful. I am so thrilled to see. The photographs are so beautiful. I'm a photographer. as well. And so I really appreciated the beauty of the book. So tell me about that. Yeah. So we wanted to create a book that was pretty and the idea behind it was to create like these beautiful images and kind of have a safe container. So when people are looking at it, they're like, oh, this is pretty, I feel safe. And then we kind of tried to talk about things

that are maybe, you know, a little bit less fluffy, a little bit less safe. while you were kind of in that safe container. So that was kind of like the ethos of the book. A lot of people that talk about these topics are not, you know, having this imagery with it. And then we also spent a really long time writing and rewriting the book so that it was bite-sized captions. It was super approachable, super digestible. It's written in a way that like you don't have to read it sequentially. You can kind of just read any little bit.

So the idea again is the same thing. Anything that you can kind of absorb and put into practice in your life is better than not And if you read just part of the book it's better than reading none but we try to make it really Approachable conversational. It's not jargon. It's not like reading a textbook. It's like reading a magazine Yeah. Tell me the name of the book. It's called live natural Live natural. I love it. So is there anything? Maybe it doesn't have to be from the book, but I would like you to give us some tips that you can offer my audience. You know, anybody like ourselves that may be looking to do something different in the homes. I'm currently looking for a sofa.

And is there any resources or sources that you can share that it's your go-to? Or any ideas where people can do some simple things in their homes. to make their home more natural, more comfortable, more healthy. Any tips like that? Sure. So I would say the first tip is to really just kind of pause and really assess like, do you need that sofa or can you re-apulster a sofa that you have? Does someone in your life have a sofa that you like that they don't want?

Just kind of, you know, more old school thinking. Do you have to throw something in the landfill in order to replace it? Okay? So that's kind of the first thing. And then if you're determined, like, yes, it has to be brand new. No one could ever have sat on it, but me. Because there's definitely a lot of people that are like that, right? It would just be, you know, making sure that you are making a mindful decision.

So the things that would be the worst would be anything that has been sprayed with pesticides to get on a container that was shipped from a broad, right? Anything that has flame retardants on it or anything that's stain guard protected. Forever chemicals that you can't reverse, that's the absolute absolute worst, right? Then from there it would be can you use a fiber that came from the earth versus one that's manmade? So can you use wool, cotton, linen, a combination of them? And the benefit of doing that is that it also can usually be laundered and you know it's not man-made so it's not gonna you know not be able to go into the washing machine things that are made with Holly poly blends or any sort of

Microsuade or any of that kind of stuff that you see at chain stores like that that's man-made we don't want man-made. We just want things that come from the earth, right? And then as far as the interior, it kind of just depends on sensitivity. I I I personally I'm a fan of feathers. I'm personally a fan of just having solid wood construction, trying to do things the way they used to be made with, you know, dowels and not having glue and adhesive, right? But we even have had success with our upholster using fish glue. He's awesome and he's open to using anything.

So we have like a whole, you know, concoction of stuff that we've approved, that could work for some of those harder things like adhesives. If you're buying from a chain store, there's Cisco Home, which does a pretty good job. Lee Industries does a pretty good job. But the safest thing is always going to be to build something because then you know all the materials that are going into it. Or to repulse or something. To just repurpose anything like that. But buying something from a chain store that's made overseas is the worst.

Right, right, yeah, I agree. I noticed that a room and board has been recently certified as a B-Corp, and I just got an email today from West to Elm that they just released like a new green something. So what do you think about those effort that some of the major brands are coming out? How do you discern that there are actually good material, good products? Well, so B-Corps certification is great. I am a huge fan of B-Corp certification. We published with the B-Corp publisher because that was important to me.

has nothing to do with non-toxic anything. They're not synonymous. The B-Corp is transparency, accountability. It's a whole list of, you know, other things that have to do with employees, the employee structure, all of those things, right? So them being B-Corps is fantastic. 100%. That has nothing to do with the quality of their product.

It has nothing to do with, you know, them making. things mindfully or anything like that they probably are going to have to be more transparent about the chemicals they're using I see which is good yeah but I mean at the price points that they sell at it is nearly impossible to use quality materials it just yes yeah I see I see well I mean it's it's really difficult I mean, I think the bottom line is that, you know, it's best to use what we have already and, you know, refurbish it or repurpose it, you know. Or if you buy something and you spend a little bit more on it and then you keep it for 10 or 20 years, that's also the same as buying a new sofa from West Elm every four years. Exactly.

Exactly. Okay. Well, you know, tell us what your dream is in terms of your future of your business. Do you think that you're going to have more audience who are willing and, you know, eager to work with you because of your specialty? I would love to work with people that are aligned in how they view things. That would be amazing. I would also love to work with.

on projects where people are really thoughtful about how they're using materials and, you know, waste reduction and, you know, the footprint that they're building is leaving. I would say it's not always possible, but that would be definitely a goal. And I would say as I, you know, kind of go into the next chapter of my career, I hope that more and more people kind of, you know, wake up to where kind of we've gone in the last 70 years and we can start kind of unpacking that. It's not, you know, just in our industry. It's with food. It's with pesticides.

It's with farming. It's with so many things and this is just a small piece that needs to kind of be undone. I mean, I would prioritize our farming over this. I think it's probably more important. But I think the farming. farming coupled with environmental stuff is kind of where it's at. But still, you know, you and I are in the industry of homes. That's where everybody lives and this is where we have a lot of carbon footprints just by living, you know.

So it's important for us to really keep our values, you know, pushed forward and so that people really get to know what this means, right? Totally agree. And I think that something else that I would love to be able to bring awareness to, and that I'm hoping the book can maybe help a little bit with, is, you know, we're not sacrificing anything aesthetic. We're not sacrificing anything ergonomic by being mindful. We're just pausing and thinking about it and then making a good decision

instead of rushing through to check everything off the list, right? It's not going to be apparent in the final end result that you did everything in a really sustainable, mindful way. It looks the same. It functions the same. It's just going to last and it didn't hurt anyone in the process. And if it's ripped out, it's not going to hurt the earth getting ripped out, you know? But I think a lot of people think, oh, I can't have this one product because that product's not sustainable.

There is a way to do this with absolutely everything, right? Because it all existed before the 50s when everything kind of went the other way. It all existed, right? And in our industry, we're getting so much inspiration from the past. None of that stuff was made with chemicals. So everything we're looking at and all our inspiration is made in this. way why are we thinking it's not possible yeah exactly that's a big mission mark it's just conditioning and it's just how we were raised in the

time that we were raised and that's the first step is do you need to think that way why do you think that way can you change that yeah yeah I see that both the building industry and even the designing industry we're kind of looking back at before the industrialization of all these you know chemical and everything and and we just have to learn from our ancestors what they you know what they learned from the nature so I've I'm just really excited for you and excited for myself but tell us how we could find you and tell us how we can find your book yeah the book is available anywhere books are sold so on Barnes & Nobles

Amazon anywhere. It'll be out this spring. And then you can find us on Instagram, jute interior design, or our website is juteintieriodysign.com. And, you know, when you land there, it's not going to look any different than any other designer's website. You know, it's just we are thoughtful in the materials that we use and how we do things. But I, I, even find it interesting that you when you went online you feel like you took away that we're doing something different because I don't even know that it's a parent when you go on our website well maybe because I knew all the lady were you know right but you know that you have a point like both what I'm doing

as you know green homes and you know naturally design homes it looked the same you just can't tell the difference and right you know it's it's within the walls, it's in the fabric and all the materials that we choose, like you said, mindfully. And I think that's the key. Definitely agree. Yeah. And it's also just, unfortunately, this big of a problem in the States, right? If you go to other parts of the world, it's not the same problem.

People that have more of a reverence for the past and are more surrounded by it. by older things. It's just part of their life that like they accept that things were done differently and it's still fine to do it that way, right? It's we don't have that history here and between that and capitalism and our building codes. It's just kind of this trifecta. Mm-hmm. Yeah, but you and I keep you know, are going to keep doing this so that it will become more of a norm. in the coming years. I do think it will. I 100% think it well. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, thank you so much, Ali. It was so great to talk to you. You too. Yes. Thank you so much. This was Izumetanak with Home Green Homes Podcast.