KGCI: Real Estate on Air - Navigating Market Shifts: Strategic Adjustments for Real Estate Agents in 2025

Episode Date: May 12, 2026

Summary:In this episode, Gene Darden, a top team leader with over $500 million in homes sold, provides a high-level strategic playbook for real estate agents facing a shifting economic landscape. Darden emphasizes the transition from an "order-taker" mindset to a "sales pro" approach, focusing on mental resilience and database management. Agents will learn tactical marketing strategies for challenging climates, how to double their business using inside sales, and the importance of creating passive income streams to reach a "freedom number."

Seven-figure success starts when you start thinking like a CEO. Welcome to the John Kitchens Coach podcast experience. This is your host, John Kitchens. Get ready to think bigger and transform your business into a path to lasting freedom. What's up, brother? What's that? Man, good to see you, good to connect with you. Always love catching up.

Always love chopping it up. And we got a lot to dive into. Man, how long is this podcast? As long as we want it to be. Sweet. I love it, man. What's going on? I was just interested to hear navigating, you know, just navigating, you know, just navigating the market, navigating just tough times.

I mean, shit. I mean, it's been, it's been a, it feels like it been a battle. Yeah. Yeah, man, you know, you knew in 22 when we had, I think we had the organization up to over 50 people when you count agents and VAs and all that. And now between 22 and 25, I've reinvented my business, reinvented the team. Reinvented partnerships, all the above. Dang near went bankrupt during the process. And that still could happen, you know.

But I think we're on the other end of it. So it's been quite a journey, man. I've learned a lot about what not to do, but it has been cool to rebuild it too, because when you've been through the fire a couple times, you know, over the past 10 years or so, generally speaking, hopefully you can rebuild it a little better.

So that's kind of where we are right now. Looking back, I mean, you know, we could, knowing what we know now, going back to 22, you look at the lessons, how would we have navigated the waters a little bit different? I think we most likely would have just stayed a little bit more. more lean and mean and kind of kept, kept everything abreast. And a lot of, you know, a lot of the things that, especially that you coached as far as

tracking and everything, you know, our mistake wasn't scaling up when we were scaling big, doing the cash offers and doing all the other things. We scaled up really good. And I think, you know, I think we did 205 units in six months. So, which, you know, which was pretty cool, man. And it was cool to be able to be coached by your organization and be able to have the knowledge to do that. But where we made the mistake was when the frenzy stopped and the buying stopped,

we didn't do like water, like Bruce Lee says, and flow like water and just start backing up. We kind of held on and clutched the opportunity that had already went away. And in doing so, we didn't scale back as far as staff, employees, you know, all those things, nor did we do a really good job of shifting and finding what the next opportunity was. Now, given the past couple of years statistically have been pretty down across the country, as far as sales. I know there's some hot pockets, but just overall.

But we just, we didn't make the adjustments to scale back and report our ship to where, where the opportunities actually were and tried to grasp onto that, that old opportunity. And so we, you know, six, we put six to eight months,

we held on and just bleeding like crazy until, until, you know, you got to a point in the business where you didn't have options for a change. It was a forced type, type thing. So that was, That's what I do different is to stay right really quick. We've all been there, right?

I mean, is it just a human nature thing to, oh, we can, we can, we'll just hold in here. It's going to come back. Like what indicators did we miss to be like, hey, hey, the train's over. We got a shift and we got a shift now. Well, I think it's more about understanding the economics of it because the folks that we're doing all the buying and the folks that we're partnering with will continue to tell us keep everything in staff, we're going to go again. But understand the dynamics of why they were buying and what they were buying and understand the economics.

That could change that and watching the economics versus what somebody that's maybe in a mid-level position is telling us would be a smarter move. And that goes into play with anything. A lot of what I learned was studying bond markets, studying rates, studying labor markets, studying the real big indicators that push business on the front end that allow you to see what's going to happen on the back end. And, you know, for us, we just took somebody's word for it. That wasn't telling us wrong on purpose. They just didn't know versus really understanding the economics and what was truly happening in the real estate marketing and be able to make adjustments on that versus, you know,

versus a one-off. Right. So staying lean, making the adjustments pivoting faster. And I know, you know, part of your overall vision is getting down to down to the water. So going into, you know, the market, how far, how far is, you know, the other market for you from where, where you're at, Alabama? It's about, it's right out four hours. Okay. Yeah. So four hours down there, man, polar opposite market. It is. So I was, I was running comps this morning and I do what's called review previews at the beginning of every week, which is just a video to review what happened,

preview what's coming for each listing. And so, and so I'm carrying listings in Birmingham and in Northwest Florida. And so when I pull stats for Birmingham, all the, all the inventory showing three months, four months, five months, that type of stuff. So, so it's pretty easy to build a strategy off of that. But in Florida, it's a little bit different. I think you and I were talking earlier, you know, and I think, you know, we've got 13 or 14 months of inventory in Florida as a state right now is carrying more inventory than they've carried even all the way back to like 2012 and 13, when we were really high. And we had a ton of money flying there.

A lot of it was paycheck protection money. A lot of it was migratory, tons of different things. But a lot of them bought homes on adjustable rate mortgages. And when those mortgages adjusted, some of them were depending on rental income and some other things to prop those things up. And those all went in the red. So you're going to see a rush of inventory on the beach.

And then off the beach, if you get, you know, a county or so back, then you get into industry and ports and things like that, and your inventory drops down to five or six months of inventory. It's kind of normalized. So it's interesting to see all the different dynamics as you run through different markets for sure. Are we starting to see prices adjust? I saw a report.

I can't remember where it was from, but top 30 markets in the country as far as price adjustments where they were going. And I don't know if it was over the last 12 months or whatever it was, but a majority of the markets, nobody was double digits, but majority of the top markets were Florida and then some in Texas. I mean, how much are you seeing prices? I mean, you're at 13 months inventory and price correction moving the other way. Well, I've got a good example. We did one at 535 and that was that we listed and that was back in September of this year. It was one of the first ones we took down there. And that was right when, you know, everybody still has that 2022 kind of mentality with sellers. And that was when inventory was starting to climb.

And at 535, we got two showings over over three months. We reshuffing our pencil. And during that whole time, we saw a correction. And then we went back on. And it looks like we're going to go around 490. So that was, you know, 40,000 on 500,000. So you're looking at, you know, 8, 9, 10% price correction that's kind of happening in there. So I don't think it's like a massive 20% crash.

But I'm seeing a good average 5% to 8% price correction. And the percentage of properties that are getting a price. adjustment after going on the market is up in the 40s like 42, 43%. So you're having a lot of people realize that, you know, where they think they are, they're not getting traction. Trying to base it off of historical instead of, like you said, you know, bringing something on and looking at kind of competition and what you're competing against has to be factored in. And that was the whole thing why, you know, we really led with kind of the headline, you know, the death of the CMA because we, you know, you have to factor in all of the

things around you other than just, you know, the historical side of things. Yeah, and that's been interesting to me. It was not relearning. Well, I guess it was relearning the job just to be able to have those conversations and articulate what's actually happening. You know, and right now, if you're selling in any market pretty much, you got to, you got to be able to talk well beyond what your neighbor's house sold for and really, really understand economics, which I think that's where most agents need to be anyway.

Man, you, I saw a crazy stat that like 70% of agents last year didn't sell a house or something crazy like that. And those numbers are always skewed depending on who's right in the article and what sampling they pull from. But I think the biggest thing that's showing up and why you have those big numbers is now these these communications that are in living rooms have a lot to do with being able articulate that you're going through a price correction. And you're not seeing it on the news and you're not seeing it, you know, and your neighbor's still talking about his house that had eight offers. You've got to look inside the data and really understand how to point to those things and point to indicators that aren't necessarily

sold prices that will lead you to where you need to. be to get them so. So important. And then obviously everything also to consideration what the seller's objective is, what is the goal. What are they trying to accomplish? And I mean, when you get to there, to that point, man, you got to, and it's one the things kind of been looking at over the last couple of years, just been saying, it's like, man, like don't waste time on people that want to. You got to go find the people that have to. Where is the motivated opportunities at? And I've made those mistakes in Florida.

I've actually removed, you know, I've taken seven or eight listings, but I've dropped three of them. And it was very well that mentality of letting me go just get what I can get right now because business is slim, you know, so just having something to hope for and something to get. You know, and I don't mean we're not selling houses, but numbers are down, you know. So anytime you get an opportunity to get something out there that you have a chance to sell, you know, your mind wants to go to. Just get it, man. Just get the deal and you'll figure it out. And that is not a winning strategy right now because if they're not, I've got to move. I'm getting divorced.

Somebody died. My job change, you know, the 3Ds, all those, all those good things. If those aren't happening, most of the time, they're not willing to go where they need to go to move the house. Right. You know, and the guy that the listing that I told you about, the conversation that we had where I finally got him to say, hey, you've got to come here and this is what's happened. I was like, look, man, you're liquid in this house. If you're liquid in this house, would you rather continue to pay taxes, insurance, and utilities? or would you rather move it $35,000, take that $500,000 and go ahead and go earn 5% or 6% on it and let it pay you.

Within six months to a year, we're home anyway. And so it's kind of those type conversations that will help lead you a little bit further. And some people aren't ready for it. You're absolutely right. Yeah. Well, some people aren't ready for that in Bill because of the point. But I think that's going to be the difference in, you know, even in the industry, you know, the real estate agent industry as a whole, if you're not educated and being willing to have those type of

conversations, it's going to be real hard for you to be able to survive. You're going to be one of those agents that aren't selling very many houses per year. And that, but to me, that's, that's what it takes, right, to be able to make it through kind of the storm and the season of the industry is that you've got to be the one that needs to tell them what they need to hear, not what they want to hear. I was listening, man, I've really been spending a lot of time. listening PPD podcast. I just love how, you know, that's, I get my, that's, that's my news. That's how I stay in tune to what's going on. I'm, I got his daily update from a VT, VTNews.A.I. And it sends me just the stuff that I'm interested in that I need to be paying attention to on a

daily basis so I don't get caught up in all, all the noise. But he had a really good story that he was talking about on the, uh, the last podcast at the end of last week. and he was just having a conversation with his son. He's two, he's got, he's got two boys. One of them is super competitive. One's going to be in politics. One wants to, you know, professional soccer, just be on the sports sides.

And they were having a conversation talking about advice. And, you know, the advice that you get from most people. And he called it, you know, the 20% advice. right to be you know the advice that you get to be the top 20% at whatever it is that you're trying to do but if you want to be at the top 1% of whatever it is that you want to do that's a different kind of advice but now if you want to be the 0.1% of whatever it is you do that's a completely different type of advice and and he was just going on and he was like you know the the advice most people want is that 20% advice. They want, oh, man, you know, just hard work. You show up every day.

You know, you can do it. You can be whatever you want. You can you just go get it, right? That type of advice. And he said, now you get into that 1% advice or that 0.1% of advice. And that's when people are going to tell you like, listen, you ain't got this, you ain't got this, you ain't got this. That ain't possible. Don't do that. This is how you're built. You need to focus on that, right? telling them exactly what they need to hear. And I just think agents as a, you know, going into the market, that's the type of advice that they've got to be able to give is they got to be able to tell these clients, these buyers and sellers, especially in a market of when you have to, man, just being able to shoot them as as real as possible. Yeah. And I think a lot of people,

you know, I make some pretty simple Facebook posts with kind of basic, you know, knowledge of real estate and stuff like that. And I have a lot of agents and like this is great this is great and I think in the back of my mind it surprises me that that that you guys aren't studying that more because it really helps you with every conversation I made a post the other day and I ruffled a few feathers imagine that I could always count on you ruffling some feathers my last well and my post was was was basically predicated on just saying hey you know a lot of real estate agents are more worried about it all what they put out is look at me and the glam shots and all this other stuff, which what created that was that 19 or the 2019 to

2022, 2020 market where everything was selling really fast. And then you had AI kind of enter the picture, you know, social media influencers, all that stuff. And so agents didn't find it real hard to sell real estate. So they figured out how to look awesome on social media. And I'm like, well, now it's real important that you know how to sell real estate. And it's really important that you put out things that actually add value and help folks versus just, you look like or right or you know and um i think that's that's the order of the day really is is to really you got to know the game man and you got to know you got to know you got to know you got to know you got to know you know how to advise them what direction is going where their buyers are

coming from you know how you're going to attack that um what they can expect you really got to talk to him and help them from couch to couch and it has and like i said it doesn't have a ton to do with what the neighbors have sold for in a volatile market and and if you don't understand the economic side of it and the strategy side of it and know your market really well. In this phase, which is, which is not the new AI and every house of selling in two seconds phase, those things are going to come back to the top. And I think you're going to see a lot of the influencers and a lot of the voices in real estate move, move back a lot more to, to strategy and quality versus clicks. Yeah. Yeah. What besides, you know, the, the economics side of it, besides the MLS, like,

What are you paying attention to to stay sharp, to be able to stay on top of real-time data, real-time information? I really try to pay attention to what's causing money to move and where it's coming from. And I think that helps, you know, and it's fun to do it in two different markets because, you know, an example in Florida is most everybody I talk to in Florida. They own three or four houses. They don't live there. All they care about is cap rates, economics, what are my cash on cash returns, those type conversations on the beach. Then you move two miles or three miles off the beach and you're having your standard living room conversations, but you want to understand where the money's coming from. So an example in the Florida market would be they just expanded their port in Panama City. They just opened up. They just dropped an article in Forbes. It said because of the new infrastructure with the airport, which I think you've flown into. And the port expansion and they brought a lot of, you know, a lot of highway infrastructure and those things in, it's slated to be one of the top five mid-tier growth seats. Well, in doing so, that also spurred a ship. that just did an $8 billion contract with the government to build ships in our market.

So in the section that that happened, the 12 months of inventory got reduced to three months of inventory within a matter of 30 days. Similar in Birmingham is when you're in a tight economy. Birmingham is very medical based, and then the state itself has a lot of auto industry and stuff like that. So figuring out who's moving in, who's moving out, where that money's coming from. And I even look at stats about what different states the money's coming from, depending on what market I'm in and so I can target my advertising to that. So I think the biggest thing is

is really understanding how money flows, where it flows from, and who's bringing it into your city. And then when you craft a marketing plan, that's what you go after. And oftentimes, that's going to produce more fruit than just a buyer for your client if you're hitting on somebody that's bringing in a certain amount of volume or a certain area that's bringing in a certain amount of volume. An example in Panama City is the number one feeder of Panama City right now is national. So when we're running pay ads, we do a lot of ads in national just because there's a decent migratory and a decent, you know, investment home purchase coming from that area. So some of those things are, how are you juggling that? I mean, how are you getting that data in a way to where you don't consume your whole time, you know, just studying data and searching for it?

You're using AI, using a lot of tools. You're doing a lot of research to help you there. Yeah, I do. I use a company called List Track just to understand the overall dynamics and they'll tell me where all my clicks and traffic are coming from. And they give me market stats beyond just my listings. And then with the group that we're in with place, they've got some pretty extensive systems like Land Voice and some other companies they bought where we can do a lot of cross-referencing and a lot of things like that. Number one, get the data that we need and get the contacts we need.

And then number two, get after it. So it's just different system. Area Pro Land Voice, those are two that really, and List Track, those are three that really help me kind of paint the picture. Yeah. Because like for you, I mean, like you said, you got you got the Bama market, which you know very, very well. And then you go into Florida and where you're at down there. I mean, it's essentially two different markets within a market, right?

Because if you're talking Waterfront, like you said, it's a completely different clientele. It's a completely different conversation. You get a little bit off. Okay, well, I'm used to this conversation. That's a Bama conversation. I can have this one. So how do you, in, you know, just even from a leadership perspective and, in, in, in mental and leading other other agents to know, you know, when to lean in to what matters the most,

to that particular clientele. Is it something you just kind of, you know, you just kind of know, or you start asking some questions and they open up and like, man, dude, I don't care about that. I just want to know this, this, this. And then you've got to be able to rifle it back to them. I mean, is that just through experience and just all the conversations you've had to know how to navigate those, those type of conversations? Yeah, I think it's experienced, but I think the biggest thing, and what we coach agents on is do a lot less talking and a lot more listening, and then the more they tell you, the more questions you ask. And it's so important to get to even, you know, a very personal level

with folks, if you're talking about somebody that's death, divorce, job change, then it's very important to get to a level to where you truly can impact their lives and help them because most likely it's a big type move. And so you've got to understand enough to be able to understand a conversation you're going to have with that. And that's a long drawn-out questions, really deep interpersonal conversation that'll get you there. As far as these investors and folks that have beachfront property, man, they're quick and to the point. Do you know how to do 1031 exchanges? Do you understand returns? Do you understand cash on cash? If I tell you to go find me something, are you going to give me something that falls within the buy box of what I want? Or are you just

going to waste my time? And they weed through you really quick because there's a lot of agents down there and a lot of them don't understand that language. So when you're, so when you're you're making those calls to those bigger clientele. It's boom, boom, boom, and they'll talk to you for about 45 seconds and know if you're qualified enough to help them with their goals. And everybody has different. Sure. So I'm not knocking anybody.

It's just different clientele. And so, you know, once you get to that first 45 seconds, you can start going deep and talking about money, talking about returns. And then, you know, the beauty of that one is you open up conversations about three, four and five properties. So that's a lot of fun for me. And, you know, how I've managed being able to run between these two markets. Because like I said before, you know, most of the folks that I talked to down there, you know, the average sales price down there is over 900,000.

And there's houses that go all the way up to 20, 25 million on that low, there's one little stretch there that pulls some pretty decent numbers. So, you know, it's just being, it's just being able to have those conversations and get to that point quick. So they know you're qualified. And then you can expand it out into network and relationship and then start adding value. So just understanding what value they need and then making sure to hit it. But it's definitely a lot different. How were you, because, you know, with the emergence of all the cloud-based brokerages, typically one cap sell all over the planet, wherever those companies are operating,

how are you navigating multiple markets, right? Being able to, you know, because just you're in Bama, you're going down to Florida, you know, after this, you'll be there for, you know, four or five days. You still got business in Bama. like how are you juggling to be able to to proactively manage both markets and deal with clientele even when you're not there leverage um you know i've got showing assistance and i've got you know folks that do open houses and it's it's kind of a blessing for me because i tell the team my listing to your listing my business is your business if you want to unbrand me

and say it's yours i'd follow me um so i really try to take everything every piece of business i do um leverage the team help them you know click a little 10% here or there for showing assistant help them with their marketing all the other stuff so when i'm able to leverage the teammates for when i'm not there and leverage them for marketing and everything else and and it's a you know benefit to the clients and to us and it's just so it's basically like double exposure and and a lot more boots on the ground so that's the main thing is just leveraging teammates and making sure that while i can't be at all places at one time making sure i have the people that are dependable that are it can be there and show them for you yeah it's it's no i i i really believe we're going to start to see more and more

or more of it. You know, obviously spending time up in, you know, the Northwest in the winter, get the northeast in the winter and get me the heck up. Like, I got, I need some, I need some warm weather. And I think a lot of people feel the same way now that they know, like I, I remember telling Go-Go when she was still living in Michigan. I was like, you know, you're not a tree, right? Like, you can really plant roots wherever you want just because you're here doesn't mean

you have to be here. And, you know, it was a light bulb moment for her. And, you know, within however many months, she was, you know, they were in Florida. So being able to, to be able to have that, I think we're going to see more and more of it of how, you know, to navigate it the right way. I mean, how much do the consumers care at the end of the day? I mean, once you have that conversation and they know that, you know, you know what you're saying they're pretty much on board for whatever. And I'll tell them up front. I don't, you know, I don't, I'm like, hey, I'll run two markets.

This is what you're going to see. Well, I'm always your main point of contact. And if you need me 10 times a day, call me 10 times a day, you'll get me. But just know that there'll be people behind the scenes. You have a whole team working for you. I love that. And I hit that up front. And then when they see somebody, a new face or a new thing, they're just like, oh,

it's part of the team. I got a whole team. I got a whole crew doing my thing. I just try to make sure to relay that up front. And it's rare that I get any exception of that. When you were saying about the market on the water in Florida, where do agents miss the mark? I mean, where do you know, I mean, because I know you can come in. I mean, you're skilled, you know, assassin on the phones, you know, conversation.

You can pick up expires. You can pick up properties that don't sell. Where are agents, especially on, you know, the higher clientele on the water? Where are they missing the mark? How are they not able to? One, how did they get the listing? And two, how are, you know, not being able to sell it? I think it's just not really having, having the skills and training and understanding of how to do it and not want to put the time and work in to do it.

And then, and then, you know, if you don't list multi-million dollar properties or you hadn't had that experience, I mean, it's had some courage just to pick up the phone. And so, you know, I was having a conversation with the team this morning. And I told them, I might look, guys, if you want to collapse time, you know, we always say collapse time, number one is obviously coaching. But number two, the fastest way to get deals is to just pick up the phone. And you're going to be horrible at it when you first pick up the phone. But you're going to get better over time, the more and more you do it. But what I really recommend you do to collapse time is before you make dials, don't just do it to check off a list, add quality, spend 20 minutes,

understanding how to talk about the framework. First of all, sit down and know what clientele you're going to call. Don't just call a $2 million house and then a $200,000 house. Have a game plan. Spend 20 minutes before you sit down. And the first time you hear a nugget that you think is going to move the business forward in that same much you want, put it in play, make some calls, see what that does. If that doesn't work, continue study and add some more and continue to build on it. And I think, you know, all those things that I just told you don't happen in one day and they don't happen in one phone call.

They happen over a period every month or two. And it's really hard to get agents to be consistent enough to, number one, do the studying and the homework to get to understand it. But to have the courage to know that you're going to make a call and you're probably going to ask a question. and you don't know the answer to. And then they're kind of just stuck, so they just end up going nowhere. So I don't think it's a lack of ability. I just think it's more of a fear factor than anything.

Yeah, it is. It's wild. And, I mean, you start, when you do have those conversations, you're like, well, this is a normal dude here. Yeah, yeah. They're just another human being. I mean, it's the same thing. It's just having a conversation.

And especially the higher. And just to me, it's the same, right? because real estate is a high ticket item. And you look at, you know, the only thing you're clicking and buying is not a high ticket item, right? You're going to have a conversation when it comes down to a high ticket item. And so everything has to lead to a conversation in real estate. So what are you doing to have a conversation? I mean, if you're going to have a conversation on a $200,000 home or a $2 million home,

you still got to have a conversation. So just being able to be able to go through that. know you're just dealing with another human being on the other end of the line was always always that way for me right like you know talking to a new agent getting into the industry or talking to to jack and michael perry right you know run the largest team at real like text jack you know message back and forth on instagram all the time it's just he's another dude right and i think that's once you realize that you're like ah and then you have a few of those conversations you build that confidence it is and then the knowledge base too and you put all that stuff together And at some point, you'll find a sweet spot. And then, you know, you get one or two under your belt. And then you're off to the races. But it's just, just start. And know you're going to get told no and get kicked out.

My goal, we've got 100,000 people in our database. My goal is to get it to 30,000. Why? Because I want 70,000 of them to tell me to kiss off. And the other 30,000 are my fans. I'll deal with the fans, you know. Yeah, that's it. I want to deal with my people, right?

The people that I can relate with that, that I think the biggest thing for, for me was always, you know, I want to deal with people that see value in what we do. That's what I'm wrong. They see value in what we do. They believe we can help them. Obviously, the marketing and things that we're providing to them. Okay. And then I want to deal with those people.

And not everybody's going to, you're not going to be able to get everybody to see it the way you see it. And I think, I think if you absorb that defeat, it makes it really harder. And honestly, you're going to have more defeats, the wins,

no matter how good you are. But I think being able to accept that you're not just looking for a client, you're looking for the right client is really a big move and it'll allow you to kind of release a little bit of that angst that comes to with the ones that aren't right. Yeah. So, Gene, we talked a little bit about, you know, obviously if we, you know, had the magic wand and kind of go back and knowing what we know, what we would have changed, looking forward or even, you know, over the last six, 12 months, the decisions you've made to navigate, navigate the business, navigate the company, you know, navigate yourself,

navigate, you know, the family. Like, I'm just curious how you're looking in kind of the decision filters that you have in place for now and into the future. Well, right now, right now we're trying to, I'm trying to build the team as big as I can and create, and I'm on a five-year plan. And we joined a group called Place. And after five years, you can actually sell your business to place and or put somebody else, you know, put somebody else in. And so for us, every month, you know, we're hammering on KPIs, hammering on numbers, hammering on what we need to be able to get there.

And it has a lot to do with recruiting. And obviously, recruiting and sales are what it is. But I think we're a lot more measured on what's causing those things. what efforts we're putting in, what's what's returning fruit and what's not. And honestly, with our cash so tight and our position is so tight right now, we don't have a lot of room for error. So having that support to really be able to look at, you know, look under the hood and know what needs to be tweaked is really helping.

But it's at one of those critical times where if I'm, you know, in the past in 22, if I made a $30,000 mistake, no big deal. I don't have that option right now. So for me, it's what's the time in? What's the, what's the investment? What's the back in? And what are the, what are the pitfalls in between? And so we're not as quick.

We make decisions fast, but not like we used to. Just because we're a bit more measured and what we do. And we make sure the lines with the KPIs that we have versus a bolt on, so to speak. What value did you see in bringing in, you know, a partner essentially? That's what place is. Is a partner for you? 50-50, you know, what hole did you see that, what problem did you see that, man, I believe they can help me solve this?

I think it's what, you know, running a 10-unit team, I don't need play, a 10-person team I don't need place, which is what we are right now. Running a 50-person team, I do need play. So it was more of a where I want to go and what I want to build it up to and what opportunities, you know, it can produce for me if I build it up the right way and then I can execute. some of those sales opportunities and some of those things in the near future or i say a five-year future so it was really more of you know like for instance right now i can handle coaching my agents one-on-one if i have 25 agents there's not enough hours in the day for me to do that so number

one is being able to grow into what i want to grow into and i try to stay a couple steps ahead number two is they they're buying they're buying up companies and i've engaged in that we now have a mortgage branch and so we did what we've got five or six lines going right now in yeah in alabom and florida and I'm licensed loan officer. I'm actually doing the whole thing. It's actually kind of fun. I'm kind of a data nerd, so it's fun. But it's being able to add a few extra layers of income

without hitting the cash and then being able to see all the coaching and all the things that they provide for my team that takes the lift off me when we get bigger. So I guess that would be the answer is right now it's good value, but most of the coaching and a lot of things that we've, that we're going through is, you know, I know, man, I've been coaching with one. I've been coached by one of the best, which is you for a while.

So it's not something I've heard, but it does get rid of a lot of that time and that headache, not headache, but just a lot of that time that it takes to do the one-on-ones and all those other things because they do a lot of that lifting for you. So I'm more of a CEO than just a coach is, I guess, the best way to put it. I do. I agree with you. You're so spot on, right? You don't need them if you want to stay lean and meet.

It doesn't make sense. It makes sense when you grow it. to really take advantage of, you know, the additional resources. I mean, you know, you don't need somebody riding your ass every day. I mean, we need, we need accountability, but when they're riding it when, you know, you're lean and mean, it's different than ride me when we've got 50 or 60 and you're pulling your weight, helping me with onboarding, helping me with offboarding, helping me with accountability, helping me with, you know, making sure agents are staying plugged in in production.

And there's definitely a lot of value there. But I do, you know, you look at, you know, there's only a handful of ways to grow any business. And one of them is increase the transaction, you know, value. Obviously, strategically, you going into Florida, looking at higher end, getting out of the Bama market. And the same thing with us, right? We got out a lot in our average sales price 120 versus when we were in, when we were in North DFW, I mean, it was only 283 during that during that run that was our average but i mean that was double for us where we came from like we were like we were and we were we were loving it right and i mean obviously now if we would have you know hung in there talked with alex on friday and i said so what's your average sales price up to brother

said i about 850 i was like god dang said you come a long ways he's from connecticut he's like yeah come a long ways you know about 115 and i was like yeah you come a long ways even during the Connecticut accent. Yeah. So strategically it's good, you know, obviously to position whatever price points. But you're expanding your transaction value by being able to align with mortgage. I mean, it's just, I'm seeing it more and more and more just with the opportunity. It makes a lot of sense to be able to do it.

And I know how Ben and they've structured it. And with Envoy, good product, good move, good service to be able to align. So, I mean, I love that move. Speaking of leadership and moves, obviously, you know, you're at Real and seeing, you know, one of the faces, but then also one of the best leaders in the industry kind of reposition, you know, from the day to day to where they're at. When you start to see changes within organizations, things like that, I mean, what do you start to think? you start to kind of look at and see what's going on. You know, you see a lot of buyouts and a lot of mergers and things like that. And then, you know, within our organization, you know, you met Chirin moved into the board of directors versus the president. From a Chirin perspective, you know,

I don't think I've ever seen a leader that impactful in a president's role in a company since I've been in real estate. Yeah. And so obviously for us that were a beneficiary of that, man, And it's, you know, that is, you know. And I'm fortunate to be able to talk to him one-on-on, you know, once or twice a month. And I definitely understand. And I think they're working on some bigger fish. And I don't know what we don't talk enough for him to tell me what the bigger fish is. But, you know, I think you're seeing a lot of merging and a lot of that.

And I think you're going to see the age accounts go down to some of those things. And I think it goes back to, you know, with technology, you know, with cloud brokerages, with all these things, you're going to see the agents that can move fast, understand technology, understand how to use resources like AI and all these other things to make their business go faster. Those are your top, you know, 20% that are going to do well. And I think the bottom end of the agents, you know, it's going to be tough to sustain. And so I think that's why you're seeing a lot of these company mergers and things like that either because they're feeling that pain on the top end. So you see like your Keller Williams and your remixes that have got a lot of

money invested in brick and mortar. And then they're competing against folks that, don't. So there's going to be a lot of moves in real estate, I think, but I think the main thing, the main thing for me is just stay focused on knowledge, scalability, and systems and processes that make me go faster than the next guys is where I keep it. Because all these brokerages now, I've got all the technology, man. It's just a matter of, you know, who's the leadership and do you think that they can take you where you want to go? Yeah, it's a, it's really interesting. It's interesting too that you said with the AI emergence. I was, you know, like any, any of us marketers just plugged in to all the newsletters, just get bombarded, you know, in our inbox

with all kinds of stuff. And there's an OG get his, get his newsletter. And he had one that was kind of talking about him just stepping back out of his, his, you know, community that he has of business owners, just what he's observing. And he took us back a little bit. He said, you know, 2016 was all about, you know, get a funnel, you know, throw some ads. You're going to make some money. And then you get into 20 and it was all about that. It was all about creating reoccurring revenue, building it up and selling.

And he's seeing what he's seeing now is shift back to the organizations that are led with human, human resources paired with AI. That's the direction. He said that's the trend that he's seeing everywhere is that these companies that are human driven, right? It's not about creating a SaaS model. It's not just about throwing a funnel up with whatever, God knows what, that you want to peddle and sell.

But he's this now it's really human resource, you know, companies driven by actual humans and human services. paired with AI that are really starting to see it. And even the late adopters or whatever, right, just being able to leverage, you know, chat GPT, GROC, just using it on a day and a day out basis. I mean, you know, even having like, you know, getting my daughter to get in on board with the company.

And I'm like, take your script. I want you to go role play with chat GPT. just open up the audio, start talking, what you want to do. Had Kenny Fast on a couple weeks ago. And he's like, we make every one of our agents, they have resources that they have to check out. And they better have checked it through chat GPT before they come to leadership with a question.

Yeah. And it's a consolidation. Number one, it's a consolidation of agents, the ones that are willing to take advantage of that technology to make their cargo faster, and then they're just going to outrun somebody else by, everybody else by so far, there's, like I said, it won't be sustainable, is not catch up. But I think the other caveat to it that is going to squeeze our industry is the consumer's access to, they have the same access to AI.

AI gives pretty good data. And so while you can't replace a real estate agent, there's a lot of things that, you know, you can't, there's a lot of things you can. So if you're one of those agents that doesn't have the skill beyond the replaceable, those are the ones that are in trouble. You know, so I think it's a lot of consumer access to information that gives them more information than they would get on just a standard Google search where they don't know how to dive deep. That's going to help too.

So it eliminates a lot of those needs unless you can communicate at a really, really high level and articulate at a high level. What else you do beyond that that really, you know, gives them an unfair advantage. It's an interesting point, Gene. It's something I was thinking about is, you know, we're talking about us in our industry and how we're using it to be better and go faster. How do we how are you thinking about or even you thinking about how the consumer is utilizing chat GPT in their home buying and home selling search prior to they even having a conversation

with us? Yeah, I mean, that they can search now. It's, you know, the term Grockett versus Google it is starting to become a thing. But I mean, you can ask rock. Tell me what houses are for sale. Tell me where they're trending. Tell me what the market looks like. Tell me what I can expect over the next three months based on data. Anything you were, just like you said with the interview conversation, you know, because you said just have a conversation with them. It's just like the consumer having a conversation with an agent. Most likely if it's one of the bottom, you know, 20%,

they're having a better conversation than they would have with the agent. So it's on, you know, that's a big deal. So how are you, so knowing, knowing your wealth of knowledge and understanding of, of the industry, of how the money moves, how, you know, real estate is actually, you know, transacted and done. Where do you have to focus now because you're going to be entering into the buyer and sellers conversation where they're way more educated than ever before? How, then how, how do you still maintain your value at that point?

Like, how do you, you know, not be like, this dude's like, I know, I know more than he does. Grock knows more than he does. So, like, where do you now enter the conversation for them to be able to help them get the transaction across the finish line? Usually strategy. One thing AI is not going to do is they'll give you market specifics and things like that, but not necessarily strategy of how to do this and this situation or what your situations are for, you know, sidestepping the tax man or in the mortgage world.

You know, I look at a loan and I go, well, you're approved up to this dollar. but if I can negotiate this amount for you into the contract, then I can approve you to this dollar amount. Because I'm doing both sides, I understand there's a level of communication to where I understand every nuance and can customize just about anything for you. So I think it goes into number one, being able to communicate strategies based on their situation as far as, you know, whatever the situation is, whether it's saving tax dollars, getting into the right house, all those type things that AI is pretty limited in. I think that's going to be your biggest, your biggest hit. And I don't think, you know, every house is unique. And I think I've realized that in the mortgage piece of it is,

I think there's a missing gap between agents and mortgage people, unless you're so tight with your mortgage person, and you're talking at such a high level, because there's a level of customization that I can do now that I'm negotiating the contract and right in the mortgage that always ends up being a better deal for the client, not just talking about rates, but structure and everything else. depending on their needs. And I think that flows into just what you said with from the AI side.

Every house is going to have a unique, unique identifier to it, so to speak, you know, whether it be, you know, size, shot, size, shape, you know, those type things, lot, size, all those different things. And in addition to that, situations in the house that require timelines, that require big decisions, all those things. So if you lean more on the strategy and the navigation versus just, just the statistical evidence. I think that's where you'll set yourself apart.

I love that. Yeah, even more important now than ever. I mean, you know, one, we had to build CHBA because we had CHSA. And CHBA is about the home buying strategy. And it's all about that. And I think that's so important now. And I think that's where you get into kind of the goal of the goal. Like, what is the goal?

Is that really the goal? Like, what is it that's super important about? what, you know, your decision to sell or your decision to buy. What is it? What is it really? And I think a lot of agents don't know how to, to dive really deep to have that conversation. And it, to me, it's so important. It was, I'm reading, this would be a good one. You'd like this one. It's Dan Heath, you know, Chip, Chip and Dan Heath. But this was just Dan. And did you ever read Switch? Chip and Dan Heath, they had the book Switch. It was Green Book. Anyway, it came out a while. back but this one they it's called reset and it's just Dan Heath reset and it's talking about you know a

couple things in there like you know even the first chapter is you know things are in struggle you want to do anything with the company you know you get back on the front lines right you get back close to the customer and how the work is really done but he he had a point in there that he was talking about that he was talking about the goal of the goal what's the goal of the goal right they say, well, what's the goal? But what's really the goal? Getting down to, you know, the layers deeper down to really what it is. And the example he gave was like there was a, there was this mother that wanted to get more fit to spend because she, she wanted to spend more time with her kids. So she thought she had to get more fit. And I think she was battling cancer. She's,

she's doing some things to where if she was to go get more fit, right? And it's not saying that she shouldn't put those things in, but she needs to go spend more time. That was the goal. The goal was to spend more time with her kids because she was battling illness. She just wants as much time with them as possible. And she thought she had to get more fit for that to be true. And if she would have done that, she would have spent less time with her kids because she would have spent more time trying to get to get more fit. And so it was all about spending more time with the kids no matter what was happening. So like when she was sick and throwing up or whatever, they're playing board games, right? So she can, she goes, I can throw up in a bucket and still play board games with my kids.

And so really understanding what is the real goal. And I think, you know, for agents, it goes back to being just a true, true expert, that true expert advisor, being able to listen to what they're trying to accomplish, what they're really trying to accomplish, and then being able to advise them, you know, based upon that. But with like what you said, what's the game plan, what's the strategy? then let's go execute it. Let me be here to execute it with you because Groxner are going to execute for you. That's a cool thing. It's just like we're all, well, we're all wonderfully and uniquely made.

So is every real estate transaction. And that's one thing you can't aid in person. You know, while my goal is to scale virtual and go into, go into Tampa, go into Miami as a team and do that virtual. I won't have one initial coaching goal session, not in person. And I've watched. And statistically, if I do, there's a good chance that the fall off is bigger because there's still that personal connection that's made. You know, I call it vibing.

And vibing's a big thing for me, but you can't really do that. And if you've got a relationship that's already there, then you can vibe on Zoom or whatever. But if you're really trying to establish some things and really trying to read each other's feelings, read each other's thoughts, get go layers deep like you're talking about. you can't do that not sitting in front of somebody not not as effectively as as any other way i just i just don't i don't see it and i think if um if you're big on relationships and real estate you're going to win no matter what technology is out there yeah it's one of the things that that won't change it was really good question right to be to be thinking about came from a bezos question right

he'd always say you know you guys asked me what's what's going to change and that's not the right question the question you should be asking me is what's not going to change and deepening of relationships, the local knowledge and expertise, that stuff's not going to change. Nope. Yeah. Brother, I always appreciate it. Appreciate it vibing with you. And, man, I always love catching up and appreciate you jumping in here adding a ton of value and how to navigate, you know, the current season that we're all in. Man, I appreciate you sticking with me for so many seasons.

there's a guitar right back there that's got a brown stripe on it. You sent that to me in 2021. It's even actually got a team name that's different than my current team name. So we've been through several seasons. We've been through some seasons. Yeah, we've been through some seasons. Brother, I appreciate you. And keep rocking.

See, bro. See you. That's a wrap for today. I hope you got something valuable from this episode. If you did, hit follow and visit johncitchens. For more ways we can work together. See you on the next episode. You know.

Thank you.