KGCI: Real Estate on Air - Real Estate Growth Secrets: Lessons from 10,000 Hours of Coaching

Episode Date: February 27, 2026

Summary:This episode features top eXp agents Jake Kinder, Mike Sherrard, and Amanda "The Traveling Realtor" discussing the transition from traditional brokerage to a scalable revenue-share model. The conversation focuses on the "Honey Badger" mindset of radical sharing and collaboration. Agents will learn the tactical importance of "three-way calls" to close recruits without "selling," the psychology of shifting from an individual producer to a leader of leaders, and how to use personal leverage to build an organization that outlasts their own direct labor.

Seven-figure success starts when you start thinking like a CEO. Welcome to the John Kitchens Coach podcast Experience. This is your host, John Kitchens. You're ready to think bigger and transform your business into a path to lasting freedom. Hey, hey, everybody. It's Marguerite Chris Villo, and it is time for real estate, real world, where we get to talk to all the cool people. You know, I'm not sure if you know, but I'm part of EXP Realty,

and we have a radio show, a radio program, radio channel, I guess it is, And we all get to contribute many of us that are podcasters and people here at EXP get to put our podcasts up there. So it was kind of fun because we have this chat and we're like, hey, have you been on my show yet? No, you need to be on my show. And so John and I both ended up popping at the same time. We're like, we need to be on each other's show. And I got the honor of being on his on YouTube live the other day. And so you can go check it out. We'll put the link in our comments. But for sure, you're going to want to go listen to that because it was pretty good. And we've pulled some fun stuff out of there. But today, we're flipping the script and I get to have John on my show. So everybody, please give a big warm welcome to John Kitchens.

Ah, what's up? Hey, how are you? I'm great. I'm great. We get to flip the script here. Yeah. Are you mostly a host or are you on guests? Yeah. So you're not a guest very often? Not very often. No. And just definitely a push. to get on the on the other side instead of the one you know hosting and asking all the questions yeah i haven't been i mean i've been a you know a guest multiple times over the years for different people but it's not obviously as often as i do my own show and it is fun it was fun being on your show the other day because i was like what are we going to talk about i don't know we just we just went

along for the ride it was great i enjoyed it so so i want to hear a little bit about you i do have to One thing I want to point out, though, before we actually get talking, is you made a comment on your show to go look at the Cleveland Clinic Empathy thing. And I had never seen that before. And I just have to say, obviously, it was a bit emotional, you know, as you watch it. If you guys are listening, go just Google search, Cleveland Clinic Empathy, and it will come right up. It's about four or a half minutes or so. And it's so powerful because I just don't think sometimes, you know what came to mind as I was watching. watching it is my husband, I love him, you know, him and my sons all get a little bit of road rage going on.

And I started thinking, yeah, I'm like, you know what? Did you ever stop to think like that person who cut you off like what was going on with them, right? Or the person who does, you know, something stupid when you're driving down the road. Like rarely are they intentionally doing that? You know, I mean, obviously there's jerks out there. But most of the time it's just something. And they're distracted. They got something on there.

Anyway, I got sidetracked, but I wanted to highlight that. So I want to hear about you. Tell me about your background. Yeah, you know, just celebrated, I guess, if you want to call it a celebration, 20 years in the industry came into, walked into, you know, by definition, kind of an already successful organization and walked into a team within a brokerage. as that was kind of becoming a thing. And, you know, like, you know, during that time, by definition, extremely successful.

And it's, you know, looking at back now, looking at that experience. And, you know, it was really, it was really like a go fast boat motor on the back of a rowboat. That's the best way that I can, that's the analogy that I can give to it. You mean the industry as a whole or the team that you were on? The team that I walked into. And it was just all gas. No, no, no, no, no, we didn't know where it was going. And so, you know, I walked in on the, on the operation side of things.

And it was, it was at the time, you know, before being an integrator was even a thing, right? It was that essentially what, what that role was, was coming in. And, you know, one of the things kind of looking back over the years and seeing, you know, so many operational people, integrator type, type individuals that step in, you know, to really help the visionary. You know, they either lean a little bit towards, you know, marketing and sales, or they lean a little bit towards the finance and structure. And I would, I lean towards the finance and in the systems and structure, but that's what was needed at the time, right? You know, Kinder was already all gas sales and marketing. And he just, he just didn't

have the balance of the systems, the process, the structure, the eyes dotted. T's crossed, knowing your, you know, knowing your numbers on the financial side of things, right? Knowing the math and, you know, what critical math numbers to pay attention to. So being able to bring that in and kind of stabilize the ship, you know, we went forward 430 units the next year. And then the year after that, 531, number two in the world for Caldwell Banker. And it was- So you started out as you were on Kinder's team. Is that how you started out with?

Yeah, wild story. to where you're pulling the word integrator from because I know that's yeah so you know integrator it was a term with gino whitman and in through EOS entrepreneurial organizational system wrote the book traction you know rocket fuel where it really breaks down and introduces the integrator character into you know into you know kind of positioning that that function that role and it was it was an integrator before an integrator was even a thing and you know that's what kinder was missing and it was freaking wild, you know, small town, a lot in Oklahoma, you know, I was born and raised there and, you know, Kinder was small town about 30 minutes just south, but pretty much, you know,

same age, same market. I never met the dude. I never met him. And but yet I knew him because you couldn't go anywhere in town without seeing him on a billboard, hearing him on the radio, seeing his yard sign. So it's like you already already had this brand persona and presence. And, you know, we hit it off immediately. You know, like I said, stepped in in October of 2004 and, you know, really, you know,

kept the train on the tracks. I did get licensed in January of 2005. So, you know, 20 years licensed in the industry. And, you know, during that tough stretch in 07, 08, 09, you know, I had to jump in the trenches. I had to sell. And that was just there was no other choice during that time. And, you know, Kendra went short sales. I went new construction.

We just happened to have, you know, a builder in the marketplace. And, you know, it was, it was such a critical time because prior to that, I would just take the agents at their word, right? They would tell me something. And I learned so much in 0708. And I was like, dang, what an idiot. I was doing a ton of REO at that time. Yeah. They played.

Yeah. And, you know, we had a little bit of an REO presence in 0405. six time frame, obviously really heavy running through the short sell side of the banking side of things. And when we went full steam back in 2010 and made the decision to step away from Caldwell Banker, we were at a crossroads. It was either buy the franchise or the best option at the time, especially in our market, was go independent. And we really weighed. If Caldwell Banker would not have made us renew the franchise agreement, we would have bought it. And there was there was like three and a half, four years left on the franchise agreement.

And they wouldn't let us take it over. They wanted us to reany for 10 years. And I said, I ain't signing up for nothing for 10 years. And Kendra said, me too. Let's go independent. So we went independent. And, you know, really truly learned even more during that time frame, being independent, you know, having to be the broker, ultimately responsible.

You've got the liability weight on your shoulders. You've got the legal weight on your shoulders. You're responsible now for all of these agents that are out there. you know, representing the brand, making sure that they're behaving the way that they should. And it was, it was really, really critical because I think for a lot of folks jumping into, you know, the cloud-based brokerages, specifically speaking here at EXP, you don't value the legal aspect that EXP brings to the table unless you've been independent and had to carry that burden on your own.

Yeah. And I have. Yeah. And you have. And I mean, you talk about being able to sleep better at night, just knowing that I don't have, I don't have that burden anymore. 100%. That was worth a move alone.

Just in that regard to remove that. And from a unique perspective, during that time, we were trying to get Kinder out of production. Took us three times to get him out of production. One, we had to understand that you needed a duplicatable process, a system, a presentation to be able to present and articulate your value that wasn't about,

prior to that time. And Marguer, you know this. It was the Me Monster presentation. Look at my award. We're number two in the world. Like list with us. Exactly. That doesn't mean anything, right?

We needed a, we needed a duplicatable process that talked about how our system helped them accomplish their goals. So that was one thing. The other thing was learning the math. And there was one of the most important small business financial books that we were introduced to through our mentor was Greg Crabtree's book, simple numbers straight talk big profits without without that book we wouldn't we wouldn't have

unlocked the the financial model um to make brokerages work right you know and and ultimately i mean we were a team team brokerage um you know we operated as if we were still a team but we were a brokerage and but we needed to get the math right and until that point you know it just it you know it didn't it just wasn't going to make sense and you know we got kinder out because he had been spending a lot of time down in Texas with Michael Reese trying to get Kinder Reese coaching off the ground. And so, you know, they built the coaching organization on what we built in Lotton, Oklahoma. And, you know, that was, that was where the coaching all came from is everything that we were doing in the trenches there in Lotton.

You know what's funny is, so one of my earliest memories, I think the very first time I really remember hearing about them, I, in 2009 or 10, I think it was, I got, um, I went to a Frank Kern event and spent some time with Frank Kern and was in his program for a little bit. And I'll never forget that video that they did with the boats and the helicopter. Do you remember all that? I know you do. And we should find it and post it. I'll never forget watching it.

I'm like, these guys are nuts. Like, who are they? Like, they literally kind of felt like they came out of nowhere, you know, because I'm in California. So I wasn't familiar. You know, I didn't know their name. I didn't know them from Adam. But they just like all of a sudden like hit hit the street in this like crazy video with speedboats and helicopters. And it was pretty cool.

And I because I think they were in Frank's program too at the time, right? Frank. Yeah. That guy's a beast. He's hilarious. Yeah. Yeah. We were.

That was the long hair Frank Kern days. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It was. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Actually, the first time I met him was. At an event he did with, oh, I can't remember the other guy's name now. But anyway, and he showed up with his now wife, who was not his wife then. And I didn't know his previous wife, so it didn't matter to me. But I remember him and she's stunningly beautiful, you know. And she was, I think, like six or seven months pregnant. So he came walking in to this event with her. And everyone was like, oh, what's going on, Frank?

But it was a fun, it was a fun event. And I remember, like I said, shortly there, after seeing their your guys' videos with the speedboats and all that. And I was like, okay, they're doing some cool stuff. Yeah. And I mean, thanks to, thanks to Frank. Thanks to Dan Kennedy, you know, I mean, we were investing heavily in in trying to figure things out.

You know, and I think that's, that's always been, you know, one of the things, you know, really early on, right? We've always been about growth and always pushing each other. You know, there wasn't, you know, a week ago. I would drop a new book on, on Kinder's Day. desk and vice versa the same thing. And, you know, I was the one that, that uncovered and found Jay Abraham for us. And, you know, we ended up. It's amazing. Yeah. Jay's incredible. And so you look at, you know, those key characters during that time frame and really shaped, you know, who we are today

was all of the work and time and energy and everything we put into them. And I mean, everything that we would generate revenue wise was poured back into, back into, you know, our development and education and just learning from the best of the best. And so, you know, we always joke, you know, get out a lot. And I was really the last one to get out a lot and just holding the brokerage together. And really what kickstarted it is that, you know, Michael, Michael and I are the ones that go way back. We go back to junior high high high high. Yeah, we played junior high golf. Yeah, we played junior high golf together. But we were also first roommates coming out of high school into college. Oh, wow. And Michael's brilliant. I mean, that's a whole other podcast for that

that experience. 100. I know I need to get both those guys. Well, I need to have them on separately because I mean, you got to. You can't have them together. So nothing, nothing would, yeah, nothing would ever get done. But so, you know, during that time frame. So we had always wanted the three of us to do to do something. Well, you know, Michael's right hand, his integrator decided to, you know, pursue another opportunity. So it was like, hey, if we're going to do it, we need to do it now. And we did. We, you know, we came together. We crashed and burned. We tried to take what we were doing in Lawton and were like, oh, that doesn't work in DFW. So we got to take a different approach. And we did. Once we figured it out and really nailed the partner model, we went, you know, we hit gas.

I mean, we did, you know, 220, 25 units and 2.2 million in revenue in, you know, first 13 months that we tweak the model. So we're like, okay, we got this. We figured, we figured it out. This works. We know, we know what works just from our experience, but in the coaching side of things. And in 2012, the guys in the coaching program, you know, they needed to have a higher level place for for their top, top coaching clients to go to. So they created, you know, mastermind. And at that time, you had to do a million in revenue to even apply to get into the room. And that was a big deal, you know, back in 2010, 2010, 2012. You know, nobody had broke the thousand transaction mark just yet.

And, you know, so it was a million in revenue. And then it was a thousand transactions as you look at the growth of the teams. And so Kinder was like, listen, man, we need, we need somebody to coach these folks. And I'm like, I'm in. And I kind of laugh because every one of them called me every day anyways to be like, what are you doing? What's working? Right.

I'm going through this coaching program. I got these coaches over here while he's coaching me. But yet he's saying, hey, you're doing this. I just want to talk to you. what are you doing? So it was it was just a natural progression. And, you know, for me, you know, that's, you know, after we shut down the brokerage in 17, when we moved over to EXP, you know, it's been full time coaching, you know, from 2012 through 2017, it was both, right? It was, it was coaching in and kind of a unique, maybe kind of a growth strategy position within

the brokerage. I mean, I was there every day, coaching and consulting, the leaders and the leadership, advising don't do this, do this, holding, you know, holding their feet to the fire during that time. So I would say, you know, such a unique perspective with the amount of one-on-one coaching calls I've had, you know, what we did in Lotton, Oklahoma, small town average price 120,000 to DFW at the time. Our average sales price was still a little south of 300. But, I mean, that was almost tripled the sales price from Lott. And so we were like, I was happy with that role. So, you know, the coaching, the coaching, L.O.

has has always been a natural thing. You know, growing up, my dad, my dad was in the public school system. He's a Hall of Fame coach in the public school system for over 40 years. I mean, I grew up in the locker room. I grew up on the hard, out on the courts. And I grew up on the golf course. And so it was just hardwired into me. I just didn't know where it was going to fit.

I knew I didn't want to be a teacher. I saw my dad's paychecks. And I was like, man, I don't want that life. And so it was just really just kind of, of, you know, navigating the waters and it just naturally kind of fell there. And, you know, 13 years in the one-on-one space, I think, because we track everything, right? So it's looking probably in the next couple months before, before, you know, our quarterly event that we host called Kitchen Table, we'll be, we'll hit the 10,000 hour mark in one-on-one coaching, which, you know,

is wild to even say out loud, you know, and you follow the 10,000 hour. rule and it's it's funny like i just i still don't even feel like i've hit my stride of being a coach and you know approaching the 10 000 hour mark is is a pretty cool pretty cool thing so yeah looking forward to to the next 10 000 hours and who is that uh malcolm gladwell talks about that and i can't remember which book it is i think blink um and he talks about 10 000 hours and it really is a pivotal a pivotal time like when you look back over like, you know, as we talked about the other day, I've been 31 years, you know, in real estate. And I look back over my career and how much things have changed. Like, I didn't really

think about the whole team thing and all that. But when I started, no one, I mean, nobody had teams. Nobody, you know, we had assistants or whatever like that. But I remember early on, one of the first things I did was get an assistant. And everyone was like, oh, you don't need an assistant. Well, that assistant pushed me in different ways. It pushed me because now I had to, you know, to be accountable to pay somebody every, you know, a couple of weeks. And I had to be accountable to answering to somebody other than myself. But between having, you know, the more team environment now and having coaching, I mean, I don't know how people have gotten anywhere without having a coach at some point in their life for a variety of different things. I mean, I'm probably one of the only times

right now in my career where I currently just at this moment, like, don't have a coach only because I'm in between figuring stuff out. but I always have from early on. I got into coaching programs. I was in bio referral only back in the day. I was in the core for a while, you know, and some of these different great coaching.

And I think about the impact that has made on my career. And I can only imagine the kind of impact that you're making in the 10,000 hours. And I agree, you're just getting started. I mean, this is when stuff gets good. Because now you can take that whole 10,000 hours and look back on it. and look at all the lessons you've learned and all the mistakes you've made and all the we all make more mistakes than success as many times you know but and all the maybe damage we've done that we've had to repair all those different things over the years it it definitely

has an impact on you personally and on the people that you surround yourself with and I love the concept of kitchen table I'm not familiar with what you guys just do, but, you know, I keep hearing lately. I keep hearing it more and more about who you surround yourself with matters, right? And the people that you're hanging out with and the people you talk to, I'm blessed to be Brent's, you know, direct. I was sponsored by Brent and brought in early on. And he's been a great leader. In fact, it's funny because I'm in his office. So he put in this big office last year and I moved into his office. And so I have a little office in there. And I had my own office for a long time. So it was a big ego.

thing to like, you know, shut my office, move into Brent's office. But I love, love, love it there. And he was walking by and I said, hey, could I talk to you for a couple of minutes? He's like, sure. So he, you know, he comes in and I go close the door and he goes, oh, no, am I in trouble? Yeah. I just said, you know, I'm struggling a little bit in this area. And I love that he's, you know, was able to just say, hey, I'm going to be really, you know, honest and blunt with you. And here's what I see that you need to do. He goes, you are a leader and you're not stepping up. And I'm like, whatever. And then all of a sudden, I was like, you know, he's right. And you need those powerful people around you, I think, or the people that you have enough respect for that will call you out.

Like that's what most, especially stronger personalities, right? Like, we need somebody who's like, no BS. I'm going to tell you how it is. Here's what you got to go do. And don't come back until you do it. Like, I'm not going to keep playing this game. And, I think that those people are like, when I think back over my life, those have made the biggest impact on me. Yeah. It's the people that it is. Yeah, they tell you what you need to hear, not what you want to hear. And the reason they do that, it's a level of kindness.

They're not, you know, the difference between kindness and nice, right? You know, a nice person would never tell you that. A kind person will. And so I think making sure that you're putting those type of people in proximity to you. and giving them permission to hold you accountable and call you out. There's a great exercise in Patrick Bet David's book, Choose Your Enemies Wisely. And it's the exercise of identifying your inner circle. And looking back, that's the exercise, right?

Because it's the whole Jim Collins, right? It's who. Then we can figure everything else out. And it's making sure that you have that circle. One of my favorite quotes is a Nipsey Hustle quote. You know, if you look at the people in your circle and they don't inspire you, you don't have a circle. You have a cage. And so being able to build that circle and he gives the framework that David gives the framework of how to build your inner circle.

It's like on page 180, 181, 81, but there's six, there's six equity buckets and you've got to score them on a scale of zero to 10. And the most points you can have as a 60. and when he says for somebody to be in your inner circle, they got to be a 50 or above. And if you do it, you're only going to have, you know, two, three max. You know, I feel fortunate. I have four in my inner circle.

So I feel really blessed that, you know, as you go through that. And you got to keep evaluating it because some people will dip below and some people will rise up, but just based upon season, seasonality of their life, season, what's happening. And so it's a great exercise. It's one that, you know, I don't take for granted. Those are the people that you reach out to if not daily on a weekly basis, right? You're staying in high touch, high proximity, but it's real tight, right? It's a real tight circle.

And then we have the circle outside of that and then a circle and a little bit bigger circle. But, you know, it's that real tight inner circle that can really shape and help course correct and direct you, you know, with the big equities of our life with health, wealth, and relationships. I think I think of that circle. I've always thought of it. I'm sure it's, I saw it somewhere of like a dartboard, right? And, and, you know, it's got all that. And you get the most points for that little teeny tiny circle in the middle, right? That's where you get the most points in the game of darts. And it's just like that in life. So how did you guys end up, how did you end up at EXP? Like, I think that's kind of a fascinating story, because you were a big

independent too, right? How many agents did you guys have at the time? Yeah. So when we had shifted the gears within the DFW and going kind of what we call partner, where we partnered with agents in geographical and MSA, a market service area, we would partner with them. And part of our value proposition is that we were going to get them three new listings a month. That was, you partnered with us. We're going to help you build. You're going to become, you know, the Incredible Hulk in your marketplace. You got this geographical location. We're going to guarantee that we get you three listings a month. And we're going to help you build the biggest brand in in that market service area. And we were well down that path, you know, that that that was the first year.

We did, you know, 2.2 million revenue in DFW. We had signed 22 partners and we were, you know, brought in our first regional partner out of Atlanta. And, you know, we were, we were hitting the gas. And, you know, early on that year, we were given a video to watch from a good friend of ours out of Austin, Texas. And I watched maybe 10 minutes of it. but it was expe explained.

Yeah. But we were so fixated on our objective, on our model, and that's the whole ego piece that you were talking about a second ago. And we, you know, one of the best concepts that you can that you can really latch on to is outcome over ego. And, you know, ego is about being right. Outcome is about getting to right. So what, what is right?

What is the goal? What are we trying to accomplish here? What is the goal? Is that really the goal? So you step back and I'm a big proponent of vision. And without a vision, the village will perish. And if you want to build anything worth building, it has to be a big, big vision that people that want to get on board that are not

visionaries, but they need to believe that they can accomplish their dreams being a part of your vision. And so, you know, for us, the vision was big. We wanted 2,000 partners by like December the 26th, 20, 27, right? So like 10 years, you know, we're going to have 2,000 partners. Oh, my God. So when you have, when you have a big compelling vision, the worst thing is that you can become so fixated that your way is the way. And if you're open to being wrong, then you can step and look back at other vehicles and other opportunities. And so during that time, you know, I had been coaching Al Stasic since 2013, and here it is 2017.

And we got Al out of production. He had a great team, Stac Group in Cleveland. They were rocking. And, you know, as Cheplak likes to say, he got some early Christmas presents in the middle of summer. And, you know, his top two agents left. They bid at an opportunity. So they went, they went elsewhere. And so he was staring down the reality that he was going to have to get back into production.

And if anybody knows, if you escape production, it's like getting out of jail and, you know, for the weekend and then you got to go back in. And so he, he was like, there's got to be a better way, right? Because that's kind of always been our mantra. There's got to be a better way. And about that time, he gets a video from Cliff Freeman, who Cliff was one of our, one of our coaches at NAA, oh, old cousin Cliff. And Cliff he hits him with, you know, tell me I'm crazy. What am I missing? and Al watched it.

And of course, me and Al was coach. So I got six hours with Al, seven hours with Al, eight hours with Al. And then we're like, we need to show this to Jay. Let's get Kendr's feedback. And then he spent, you know, the next week. And, you know, once Jay finally wrapped his head around it, because we were, we were, we were, we were, we were, we were. We were, we were, we were, we were, I mean, it was a $10 million company.

You know, when you look at, you know, combining kind of the brokerage was kind of an off-org chart of what we were doing within AEA, which was the coaching organization. And so combined, we were, you know, we were a $10 million company. And so juggling that, I mean, there were, you know, 50 plus employees, if not more, you know, tremendous overhead. The brokerage alone was costing us six figures to operate, right? You know, I mean, every month, it was 100, 104, 106, every month. And so, you know, you start to look at and you're like, hmm, can we get to the vision faster by latching on to this vehicle instead of the vehicle that we're a part of?

And, you know, most people, their ego won't allow them to do that. And so for us, we, you know, we step back and like, okay, what goes away if we say yes to this, right? What's the ripple effect? And it's like, well, for the first, for the most part, 100,000 of that of that monthly, budget goes away. Really? Okay, good. That's a start. That's a start. A big number. Yeah.

And so, you know, listening to that, having multiple conversations with Brent, really starting to understand the vision, the values. But what got us was, you know, Brent said, you're coming to, you're coming to, you're coming to EXPCon in Fort Lauderdale. And we got on the plane. We went out there and he said, listen, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm to set you guys up. You're going to have breakfast with the president. You're going to have, you know, happy hour with the goat, but you're going to have lunch with with Glenn and Jason. And so right out of a mob movie, you know, right out of a mob movie where, you know,

in Fort Lauderdale, 400 people at EXPCon. I remember. And just celebrating 4,000 agents. Yeah. And what was crazy, Marguerite, when we walked in that first night, which was awards, night. We walked in. We just got off the plane. I mean, we just, we went to the hotel. We were there. We walked in. We didn't know what we were walking into. It was an NAEA event. As everybody was going across us, like, I coach them. Oh, I coach them. Oh, they're a part of they were part of NIA. It was, it was wild. It was really eerie of what, of what was happening. And we had already done a lot of due diligence. We were in. We were coming over. Vicki was, was president at the time. So we had breakfast with her. It was nice. obviously the goat for happy hour was Gene Frederick so obviously that was that was entertaining and then but but lunch was was the magic and it was right out of a mob movie we were back down there in the hotel in the back room and you know I remember you know Goves over here and you know Al Gajash Ryan really I mean there's you know a good friend Alex Piac we're all here Kendra and I are sitting right across from Jason and Glenn and we're listening to

to Glenn tell the vision. And right, I'm already, I'm already big on vision, right? And listening to tell the vision and kind of what selling residential real estate was going to mean to, to the whole EXP umbrella, right, XPI. And just listening to him, what's coming, what they're going to do, what's, what's happening, why it's this way, just really listening to the vision and understanding the core values. Got up and I looked at Jay and I was like, I was, I was already in, but I'm way in. And that's why, you know, I can latch on and understand from a vision perspective. But where I saw it in action was shareholders that next year in Orlando in sitting in the audience listening to Glenn check off the boxes of everything that they, they accomplished.

And I was like, he told us he was going to do that. He told us he was going to do that. He told us he was going to do that. I had never seen execute at that level. That was the first time, right, that I had seen. execution at that level and really just become a believer. And like I said, a big on vision and the founding, the founding anchor to vision is core values and starting to understand the values of that organization and how they align to

our values and to my values. But the one that always stood out was obviously agile, but sustainability. And I started to recognize every decision that leadership makes is one, is it going to be what's best for the agent? And two, is it sustainable? Well, and I love that so much too, because as I watch a lot of these, you know, copycats pop up and, you know, I mean, we've clearly changed the entire industry. I mean, there was nothing like this before EXP. And there's a lot of people coming in.

And I just, I guess because maybe that's been pounded into my head so long since I've been here nine years about how important sustainability is. But to watch them, it just makes me, gives me anxiety for some of these copycats. Like, what's going to happen to them? Because obviously, nobody wants to see anybody fail. But like you said, when you have ran your own brokerage and you understand the numbers and you understand what it takes on a daily basis on minute decisions, little tiny decisions that you don't think are that big become big in the scheme of things, Like even laying out the whole revenue share, like, what crazy insane math wizard like figured that whole thing out?

I mean, I failed algebra three times. So it clearly wasn't me. But I think about and, you know, even some of the recent things that have come down are so powerful. Because you're right. If none of it really matters if it's not sustainable. Right. And, you know, what's so funny is I remember when Jake, when you guys came blazing into the scene and the words out of his mouth where you can't unsee it. You know, you can't unsee it. And I, and I think about that all the

time when I'm watching some of these, you know, other people. And I mean, obviously we want them to be successful too, but I appreciate them because, you know, healthy competition is important. And I think you get to a certain point. And you know this. I mean, you're either growing or you're dying. And, you know, cruising and complacency is not growth. And I honestly don't believe the iterations and the moves and the decisions if we didn't have that if that that type of competition pushing us to continue to tweak the model and continue to evolve and continue to keep running through the filters right what's what's going to be best for the agents is this sustainable let's stay agile let's like really just check all through through the core values um and and so i like i appreciate healthy competition

in in a way that that makes you continue to to add more value which is just iteration right you just continue to iterate on the model is just adding more value to to to the model itself well and what's i'm going to circle back here for a second before we wrap up today is that your guys big vision was 2200 partners by 20 what was it originally it was it was 2,000 partners within like a 10 10 year time frame and right and so now you've been here at expe eight years about right just around eight years and you guys you got you got to you got to be getting close to 10 grand 10 000 agents how many agents you guys have now about? Well, the way, the way is kind of broken and then you can, you know, kind of look at the Honey Badger Nation that we can only see, that we can only

see because the ripple effect just goes beyond the seventh level. So it's impossible to track. What we can see is, is north of 13,000. So what was funny with the 2000, it was, it was done in less than 12 months. So it's just like when you, when you find a better vehicle, when you know the destination and you know where you're trying to go, you don't like, the worst thing you can do is is jump on the Titanic when, you know, you've got, you know, Elon in his spaceship to pick you up and you can go faster. You can, you hop on with Elon. You don't ride the Titanic to the bottom of the ocean. Yeah. Well, you know, it's impressive and it's been fun to watch what you guys. What's funny is I didn't really know you. You're like kind of the behind the scenes guy.

That's what the integrator really does, right? He stays behind the scenes. Yeah. And, you know, I'm like, I need an integrator is what I need. You got a great example with Brent being, being your mentor. You got one of the best in the game with James. Oh, for sure. James. And then Rob is his right-hand guy, Rob. I'm sure you know him.

I'm like, I could never afford Rob, but he's amazing. I mean, he's a funny story with Brent. And so, you know, Brent, obviously, you know, being connected with Kinder and everything and coaching programs and organ things that they were a part of. And Brent was struggling, struggling, struggling and struggling. and Kinder told Brent, go, dude, you need a JK. Like, you're missing a JK. Brent goes and gets James.

So that's how, that's how that started. Yeah, I love them so much. Well, I'm so, so grateful for this time. And I actually look forward to like get to meet you. Oh, for sure. Yeah, for sure. I need to get Jay on here too. I need to message them.

Get on my show. Get them all. Get them all. Yeah. But I'm so glad we got to have this time. And I look forward to seeing you live and in person here soon one of these days. I don't know when's the next big event. Let's see.

I know Brent's got a bunch coming. Right now we're all focused on the regional rallies, but I know that all the build events are coming up. So it's exciting. Hopefully be able to catch a couple of those. Brent sends me a picture today of you won't go to see this, but he sends me this picture of his. Can you see? I go because he was on the influencer call,

this morning and go, Brent, are you like out on the water on the yacht somewhere and he sends me the picture of his feet? I'm like, I need an invite to that boat. The naughty nickel is where they're at. I love it. Well, thanks again, John. It's been a true pleasure to have you and I look forward again to spend some more time with you. Me as well. All right. Thank you. That's a wrap for today. I hope you got something valuable from this episode. If you did, hit follow and visit johncitchens. dot coach for more ways we can work together see on the next episode