KGCI: Real Estate on Air - Revolutionizing Real Estate the Future of MLS with Dave Howe

Episode Date: June 26, 2025

Welcome to Real Estate Real World, where we talk to the movers, shakers, and leaders that are getting it done right now in the real estate industry and beyond. I'm your host, Marguerite Cressbillo, and I started this podcast, simply dedicated to calling people about what's really happening in this crazy roller coaster ride of real estate. Be sure to subscribe on iTunes and stay up to date on the newest stuff by adding yourself to the list at www. world.com. Now let's dive into the world of real estate. Hello everybody. It's Marguerite Cress Spillo and welcome back to Real Estate Real World where we get to talk to all the cool people. Today is no exception. I have known this gentleman since I think I first got into real estate and I think he's known my husband even longer. So it's fun to talk a bit of history which we're excited to talk about today. But everybody please welcome. Dave Howe is the president and chief

executive officer of Metro List Services, the largest multiple listing service in Northern California, serving over 21,500 members across several realtor associations. He began his MLS career in 1996 as a regional MLS coordinator becoming president in 2022 and assumed the additional role of CEO in 2023. With more than 40 years of experience in the MLS industry, Dave is recognized as an expert in MLS rules and policies, operations, and fostering relationships between MLSs and brokers. He holds the CMLX3 certification, the highest accreditation from the Council of Multiple Listing Services, and Dave resides right in my neck of the woods and is an active member of his community. So everybody, please welcome, Mr. Dave How?

How are you, my friend? I'm doing great, Marguerite. I don't feel old, but it sounds like I should. Yeah, 40 years in the business. I had to take off my socks to calculate that. But yeah, it's been a pleasure. It's been a journey. Well, you know, it's funny because I got into real estate.

I got my license in December of 93. I actually started actively selling in 95 with Luigi Caprio. I know you know him. And my son Jacob was in a baby carrier and he's turning 30 in a couple of weeks. So yes, I feel a little old. Yeah, well, it's the business certainly has evolved. I would say what I know about you and your husband is that the common threat of successful people is that they live what they do. And this business holds no exception to that.

The folks that are truly good at it really enjoy it. So I certainly enjoy running the multiple listing service. I've had several jobs at MetroList, starting with the pickup on the MLS book deliveries. I was a trainer for 11 years. First sales manager, account representative, traveled all over our territory, hundreds of meetings, thousands of hours in front of the participants and subscribers. And I would say that's you and all the other volunteer leaders and the, participants and subscribers to MetroList is what makes us great. We have an open ear and an eager

desire to learn as the business is evolving so that we meet the needs of the brokers and agents out there. Yeah, you know, I feel incredibly blessed to be in this industry. I love to say, you know, I got a PhD, a public high school diploma. So I didn't have a whole lot of options. I don't have any degrees or anything. I didn't go to college. It's been, it's been an incredible ride. And I'm laughing because when I did join into real estate, we were just transitioning from books to the good old DOS prompts, right? The good old DOS based MLS where we had the big dot matrix printers with all the stuff in it. And we would have to make photocopies of faxes because the faxes would fade. You wouldn't even have your documents.

So I laugh when some of the agents now, you know, they're like, oh, it's. so difficult and I just want to say, come on now. Like it's like our lives are so much easier. I mean, in some ways, other ways, you know, we have different challenges now. But the MLS has been an interesting road, I guess, to say, because I've seen so many iterations in my career, so many changes to it. And the way that we search for properties, when I first started, we couldn't send a link to consumers with a list of properties. We would have to search and we'd have to print it out and we'd have to take them, drive them around in the car with our good old-fashioned Thomas books, Matt books. I'm really dating myself here now. So hold on.

Well, for folks, for your viewers of this, if you can imagine a place where you had a book, it looked like a phone book. I know some of your viewers probably don't even know what a phone book looks like. But there was literally 12 listings on a page and they were in a post. They were in a square about that big. And you needed to know real estate as a second language. There were all these codes, BR for bedrooms and FB for full baths and so on. So there was just a very, very limited amount of information that was available and deals transacted years ago. And I remember this. Metrolist was the first in California to put up a public facing website. That is UCZillow and Trulian Homes and Realtor.com and MetroLie.

list.com, none of that existed. And so when we put it up, we got so much heat from how dare you putting this information in the hands of the consumer so that they can somehow, you know, threaten what it is that you do. Put us out of business. Put you out of business. It was ridiculous. So as the delivery, and I do want to talk a little bit about that today, as the delivery has evolved. So from a printed book to DOS, which was a full prompt, it would ask you a question you would answer, to basically taking your mouse now and drawing a circle on a map and having it come up with, you know, estimates of value, you know, listings with energy. And then being able to easily communicate that with the consumer is phenomenal. But every day. Now, there's a couple first.

I mentioned one being the first public-facing website was MetroList, but we've been, that has all evolved to the delivery of artificial intelligence. And this last year, excuse me, with all the lawsuits and such, a lot of MLSs made a bad decision. And the bad decision was they were focusing on something they really couldn't control. It was a situation where attorneys were involved. There were lots of court cases, stuff like that. And I went back to our team at MetroList and I said, look, guys, we're not going to get fixated on this. This is not like a blinding light. It's just another project.

We'll bring in the subject matter experts and deal with that. So in this year of all those challenges, all the legal challenges and what you all faced out there with the changes it caused in your business, we made a conscious decision to steam forward with operating and running the multiple listing service, introducing half a dozen new products, Cuba Casa, Symbium. We've got voice search that we introduced on the Metrolist.com last year, but we didn't stop operating in MLS, and that was a conscious decision. And so one of the areas that we've delved into is artificial intelligence. These large language models are out there now where they're getting better and better. The extent that, you know, I heard yesterday I was on a call with a whole bunch of executives from MLS executives from out the country. And one of them was

talking about how strange it was that their kid was going to be in a handwriting class and then also a typing class. And they were saying, why? I think the future for my child, when they get to the point where they're teenagers, they're going to be talking to the computers. And everything you need, you just ask. And that's true for the MLS. So what we did at MetroList, We partnered with a company called Lundy, Inc. And Lundy is using the artificial intelligence and large language models and developed a public voice. It's called SightMike.

It's on Metrolist.com. You guys can check it out if you want. MetroList.com. And when you see the search field, a little microphone over on the right, and you can actually just talk to it and say, hey, I want a three-bedroom, two-bath home in the Roseville, Sacramento area with a swimming pool. tell it exactly what you want, just in a conversation, and it comes back with search results. That is a far cry away from MLS books with the postage stamp that Marguerite and I were referring to earlier.

It's funny because our CEO, you know, I'm with EXP Realty, and our CEO, we talked about all the lawsuits and everything that was going on. And he said, look, there's going to be a messy middle, right? A messy middle. In the beginning, people were like losing their mind and it didn't really, I mean, I've been around so long. it didn't even rattle me. I'm like, well, if you're having good conversations with your buyers up front, this is not even relevant. You know, it's not even an issue.

But the messy middle has been messy. It's, you know, while people are trying to figure it out and forms are being changed almost daily and what you can put in the MLS and what you can't. And there's a lot of rumors, a lot of, you know, misinformation out there as well that is creating a lot of confusion. But I think at the end of the day, again, because I've come from such a history, information is power, right? And the more information that you can have to make decisions, even when you talk about AI, you know, we have kind of two split generations, the ones who embrace it and the ones who are like, you know, scared it's going to take

over the world. And I've been in both. Like a few months ago, I was like, oh, I'm not, you know, I can't handle this AI. And. I had a nine-hour flight to Miami. I had nothing but time on my hands and the Internet. I'm like, I'm going to go read about that. I'm going to learn about this, you know. And my VAs have been using it forever, right, for a long time, but I was like not embracing it.

So I had nine hours to mess around with chat GPT on a flight to Miami. And I'm like, this is the most amazing thing ever. Because what I think the part that people miss, and maybe they miss this with the MLS too, is when you have that information and you have access to stuff, it now gives you the opportunity to think at a higher level, if that makes sense. To have to be able, like, I was meeting with Lori, an agent last week, and she's been stressing about writing her bio for like two years.

She's like, I need her to redo my bio. I'm like, why don't you use chat GPT? She goes, oh, no, it's, you know, fake. I go, let's plug it in. We literally plugged in a few basic information prompts. and it wrote her whole bio in seconds. And I said, well, what do you think? She goes, that's better than I would have written.

And six months to two years, it's taken her to write that. I said, you can't 100% rely on it. You got to put garbage in, garbage out. It's no different than when we went from books to the computer, right? And went from DOS to Windows-based environment, garbage in, garbage out. And it's, to me, it's pretty impressive. what has transpired in my time in this industry of how things have changed. And I think the more that we can embrace that and get excited about it, I think the better it is, right? Yeah. So the whole

lawsuit thing, I believe, ultimately revealed some vulgarities in the business. The mere presence of the commission sitting on the listing in the MLS by some agents who really didn't take the time to explain to their buyers, their value in the transaction were kind of caught flat-footed. And in a sense, they looked at it as an entitlement. I don't need to have that conversation because it's sitting there. Well, the transparency with the consumer is fantastic. I think in raising the bar in the industry needed to happen. The other thing that we do is we also chase efficiencies.

And when we're chasing efficiencies, you know, a little bit to your chat GPT conversation. with your friend, most of the real estate professionals are people magazine people, not Wall Street Journal people. And what I mean by that, by no, by talent, is that you have to be generally a good communicator. And most realtors that I know are very good communicators verbally, very comfortable with it, talk the ears off elephants, right? And, but when you go to put those words into writing, it became, for some, it becomes a daunting task. And writing papers, putting in a prompt, a bio is a perfect example, Marguerite. You know, tell me about myself, here's a little bit of details, put it into a 200 words or less.

And then you throw it in there. And in seconds it comes back. And then you say, add more professionalism to this statement. And it will do that. Add more humor, that statement. And it will do that. And it's super fast. And so the only thing I'd say about AI.

100% you have to do this and understand very simply. It's prompt and proofing. So when you put it in there, make sure it's going to come out and it's going to save you a ton of time. Any of you that remember writing those 500 word essays, it'll write the 500 word essays for you in 15 seconds, but then go back and take the time to make sure because sometimes it hallucinates. Sometimes it just makes stuff up. and that's very important. The other thing is that, and this has happened nationally, I sat on the CMLS Board of Directors at the National Council Multiple Listing Services,

which is NAR is to realtors. There's a president at NAR. The council multiple listing services is to MLSs. So I was their chair in 2021, and I have a group of colleagues that we meet with on a regular basis. And right after the lawsuits, we got a lot of grumbling in the industry about the agents not knowing what to say.

And it's not really the role at all of the MLS to create scripts. I've seen the scripts. I question the effectiveness of scripts with real estate agents. If you're reading to me and you can't just say it, I'm going to be turned off immediately. So I tend to oversimplify things a little bit. So when we think of that, if I was to give a tip to any of your listeners here, that is think of everything that a realist, in your whole operation, it's your team, it's your company, it's the MLS,

it's your realtor or not, your title company, everything that's affiliated equates to a basic simple thing. And that is you are in that business to protect the consumer. And if you have a hard time thinking about that of what to say, and let's say you specialize as a buyer's agent or a existing agent, can you think of three things that you do that create a safe environment for that deal to transact? Oh yeah, that's simple. And I've experimented on agents with this. And they can think of that just off the top of their head, just easy. We'll write them down. And then write a story,

a little bit of a story around that. And then voila, there you have everything you need to tell that that story of your value of what you do. You're there to protect them. It's funny that you say that Because years ago, I created a client discussion checklist of all the things that can go wrong in a real estate deal, right? All the mistakes that I've made, all the things, the challenges, the things that clients don't understand. Because I think sometimes we, and I've even heard agents say this, well, they can go research it on Google. Well, yeah, I can go research how to represent myself in court on Google. Do I want to do that? No, I want somebody to cliff note it for me.

and help me understand what I'm doing and what I'm signing and where I'm going, right? Perfect example is, you know, earnest money deposit. You know, when I started back in the day, we had the good old no money down or the $500 down HUD homes. And I never thought to explain to the consumer that even though it was zero down, they still had to put an earnest money deposit and didn't really understand that until, of course, I get an offer accepted. And I'm like, whew, all excited.

And I go to say, oh, yeah, you need to put your earnest money to. deposit. No, you said it was no down. I don't have that money. So I think I agree with you 100% is like you, if you really think about all the parts and pieces, and I think that consumers are seeing that now with all the lawsuits, they thought, oh, I don't have to pay or I don't have to do this. I think they're in some ways, if you're a good agent, they're understanding your value more. They're understanding what it is you do bring to the table. And I think that needed to happen on the buyer's side more than ever. sellers, it's always seemed that people have gone and sat down, done a listing presentation.

I'm like, you would never go just put a listing on the market without having an agreement. Why would you do that with a buyer? Why would, you know, send them out and not do it with a buyer? To me, it's no different. But I guess that's how I learned or how I figured it out. Not everyone had learned that way. Yeah. And the reason you and I are sitting here is because we realize that our careers are directly related

to our ability to adapt to the market. And it's okay, guys, Lynn, and gals. And Marguerite's got great stories, and I probably have a few at my sleeve. But there are turns in the business. And with the veteran agents and brokers, they joke about how many turns have you lived through and that kind of thing. And whether it was the REO market or HUDs or short sales, lawsuits, they're all somewhat disasters in their own sense.

And it's okay to be emotionally and react to it emotionally for a little bit of time. But one of the things you notice about successful people like Marguerite is their ability to adapt. So you are set with a set of circumstances. You accept them. The quicker you can accept them and figure out how you can capitalize them, the better off you are. Now, with that value campaign, MetroList, we sent out an email either, I think it was yesterday, let's say, no, it was Tuesday, excuse me. And the value campaign is talking points.

It's blog, social content, video, email, all kinds of material coming out of MetroList. To educate you as the real estate professional on how to tell the story. And it's a lot of it's going to be white labeled. you're going to see it's going to be a persistent campaign over time. So if you look for an email from announcements at metrolist.com or dot net, that is it. And we're also posting them on Prospector as well. Everybody in the country, this is the subject de jour. We like to believe that we're leading on this, but every MLS in the country is going to be

putting this in the high-definition stereo and cranking it up to loud. As the volume gets turned down on the lawsuit stuff and you become accustomed to the new forms and a new process and talking to your buyers, the volume is being turned up on your value and the MLS's value in particular to the consumer and how you and that mechanism help to protect that consumer in this transaction. So it's a very much needed thing. It's very obvious for anybody that's been in the business, none of this stuff. We're not special. If you have your ears and eyes open, it's real easy to see and it'll come easy to you.

So when I was talking to several agents the other day in a meeting and I said, hey, I'm interviewing Dave on Friday, you know, with MetroList. What questions do you have for them? And unanimously, we came up with how and when are we going to get a better app. not only for us as agents to be able to, because you know, so much of what we do now is all on our phone. I mean, literally,

hardly ever am I actually sitting on a computer anymore. I'm doing a lot. And we're on the road all the time. So it seems that we get requests and information from consumers, from they're sending us stuff from Zillow and realtor.com. And we ourselves don't have the best app. So you told me there's something. the new and exciting coming out. So give us the scoop. Yeah, the apps have been a challenge. We had

huge adoption on HomeSnap Pro Plus, which was the HomeSnap app through the broker public portal. And then they were trying to work out a deal with Homes.com. And in that transaction, Homes.com acquired Homesnap Pro, which everybody loved. We had probably an upwards of close to 50% adoption rate on that, which is incredible. Yeah. And then Homes.com pretty much rewrote it and didn't rewrite it with the agent in mind. So it became. What were they?

GoStar pretty much focusing on the customer in their mind. And the customer in their mind is your customer. It's the consumer out there buying and selling houses, not the real estate professional. So that app, it's there. It's not widely viewed as a useful app for agents. We have a couple of apps. HomeSpotter is one of them. We have obviously the Homes Pro's available and then the Rappetone Edge software, which is an adaptive

experience. But we have for the last few months, have a subset working group of the Metroless Multiple Listing Committee, MLS Committee, and it is a task force for a new mobile app. One of the things that we all recognize is these devices are your desktop now. 100%. It's not sitting in front of your computer anymore. And I had mentioned artificial intelligence. And imagine, and so I told you the first part of that, this all has to do with mobile, by the way. The mobile experience is going to get the socks knocked off of it here. The industry as a whole has struggled with it. Because the whole app space, again, in this you're not special context, the apps experience.

nationally suck right now. And I might be using some of Marguerese word there, but many of you would agree. But with the artificial, so we can't release the voice search on MetroList.com for the consumer without doing the same thing on Prospector Plus on the MLS. So we are in final stages of testing

and going to be released here super very soon, but your ability to use your phone to walk into a listing and talk to your phone and say, I'm adding a listing over here on 2714 Mariposa Road. It's a beautiful three, two house. I'm in a living room. Let me describe the features of the living room.

And as you're talking, it's adding the listing as a, it's an ad listing assistant. So it's putting it in MetroList as you're talking. And it's saving it as incomplete. So remember with anything AI prompt and proof. So it's a mobile experience. Next Monday, I'm going to a conference and I'm going to meet with Justin Lundy, the owner of that company. They've developed this app, not only for Metro, this is the first of a kind in the country,

the ability to add a listing using your phone. But in addition to that, it's, and I won't get too technical on you, but it's what they call in the tech world multimodal. And what that means is it not only works with audio input, multimodal is the ability to get a computer to do something with prompts. And so you all know how to type, right? You all know how to do voice search because you use your maps on your phone. Tell me how to get here and it tells you how to do it. So now you're going to be able to add a listing.

The biggest pain point of anybody working on the MLS is putting that listing into the MLS. us. Multimodal also uses visual. So as you're, imagine you're walking around the room and you're just talking. You know, this is a cool house, Marguerite, and you know, it's got vaulted ceilings, and it's got ceiling fans, and it looks like energy efficient windows, you've got solar outside, and you're just talking. And that's literally, it's a total shift in the way that you add a listing. Wow. You know, you'll maybe run a realist report before you go out there, and then you'll take a few pictures to remind you what's in there and then write down stuff on a piece of paper about some of those features. Well, imagine now you're talking to your phone or talking to this app,

mobile app, and the camera's picking up visually. It's doing photo tagging. And it's the same thing you're not talking about. And then you can go back to your office. You sit down. You got MetroList on the screen. You pull up the app and say, all right, what did I say that I saw? in the living room of this address. And it remembers everything. And it'll read it back to you. In addition to that, it will read back to you what's in the picture, what it saw in the picture. Now, one of the interesting things, this is the part that really got my interest in this is there's all the fields in the MLS.

So for every value in the MLS, you could say it and it would put in or check the box or whatever, and it would indicate that it had that feature. But when you're talking and you're seeing, and this thing is seeing with the camera at the same time, it's seeing features. It's entirely going to happen that it's going to see something that there's no field to put it in the MLS. Meaning there's no plate, there's no home for the data that you just collected by either talking about it or it visually saw. And that is referred to as they referred to that as exhaust. So what exhaust is something about, okay, now I'm done adding the listing. Based off of what I just verbally told you, write me a 300-word comment section on marketing this property.

And chat GPT or the large language model, it's a little more sophisticated than your average chat GPT. It will write your comments for you based off of what you said and what it saw. It didn't necessarily have to be a feature that you typed or it entered into MetroList. It actually will write it all for you. That's the other uncomfortable part for the agent is writing those comments. It's phenomenal. The other thing that you're starting to see a lot of, you'll hear about it all across the wire, is artificial intelligent agents. And it's not a real estate agent.

Okay. It is, let's say you have a team, right? you can program AI to be an agent, meaning a resource library for everything that you do. And you program this thing like your own personal Cordona for any of you science fiction fans. But it is at MetroList from our perspective, we provide seven days a week, holiday support, got our hours of operation. But then there's those from 10 o'clock in the morning until 5.30 in a morning, we don't have humans answering the phone, but we can program into an AI artificial large language

model agent everything there is to say about MLS rules, tech support, training, how to use things on the system. And then imagine, because our night owls, it's 1.30 in the morning, and you're trying to figure out how to do something on MetroList you don't know, you'll be able to actually talk to this agent versus like a chat that does a chat response. So it's coming fast. That's one of those ones that guys don't hesitate. Get chat GPT, play around with it.

Be careful with confidential information. Don't plug that in. You can pay a little bit more and get your own personal instance of chat GPT. So the documents you put into it like an agent, if you build one of those out, can be accessible only by you and is not shared with the universe. out there. So there's different levels, but get familiar with the artificial intelligence stuff because it will save you money. And it saves you money on the side of time. Exactly. I think back

because one of the big things you always hear from agents is they don't like change and they're, they don't like tech. They're not techie, right? And I have to remind agents a lot of times, like I remember when I got into real estate, we didn't have cell phones yet. We didn't have email yet. Right? When AOL just came out with the, you know, the little floppy things you got in the mail. And we didn't have any of that. And people say, oh, don't email me, just call me. And then it got to where, you know, email, then call, then voicemails, then, you know, now text. And I just say there was, there's been a time when you didn't have phones and you figured it out because you wanted to be able to have that freedom. So to me, what AI has,

done for me is exactly what you said. It's given me some time back and given me freedom to be able to build and develop and deepen those relationships with people because at the end of the day, what we know most is that real estate is about relationships. It's about the people that you connect with and the people that you talk to. And like I said, even having the opportunity to talk to you today, we've known each other for 30 some odd years. So it's fascinating to me. It's fascinating to me. how negative agents can be with some of this. And I'm like, never in my wildest dreams, Dave, when we started, did I think, first of all,

there would be anything remotely close to what the NLS is today. Never in my wildest dreams. I never imagined it. Never did I imagine, you know, texting or AI. Like, I didn't even remember when I first set up the pagers back of the day. When the new pagers came out, you could actually put a sentence instead of just numbers, right? when we try to type hello.

So it's wild to me. It's hard for me to imagine what it's going to be like a year from now, five years, 10 years from now. But what I know is these relationships are really the most valuable thing that we hold and that we own. And if you can spend time building, deepening, and developing those relationships,

you're going to survive. Great agents do well in any market. If you just keep focused on what is most important, would you not agree? Oh, yeah, gosh, it's technically you can do anything. Anything you can possibly think of on the technical side. It's always the interpersonal relationships. That's where the money's at with respect to real estate.

And it doesn't matter if you're working with a buyer or seller. If like with me, I'm trying to entice another MLS to throw in with MetroList, it all has to do with trust. People want to feel safe. And sometimes that's contractual. You have a contract to make you feel safe. But other times, it's, you know, do they like you? Do you like them, you know?

And that is really where the rubber hits the road with this stuff, Margaret. You're spot on. It is your experience. It's my experience as well. But that that's where the magic happens is in those relationships. And you know what? We got Justin, the kid that we're doing this AI stuff with. He says, you guys act like a startup.

MLS and I laughed at him because we've been around. Marguerite and I were talking about how long we've been around. So you're a startup MLS and I heard him say that and I said, why did you say that? And he goes, because a lot of these MLSs I go to, they won't even let me test this software with their data. And I think to myself, that is absolutely crazy. And so I wear that with honor that we, I set it on stage last year at the CMLS conference. I said because I was hosting an AI panel with all these guys that were, I didn't want to know what they were going to create. I want to know what you did now that exist today. Don't tell me about some dreamy far off place. Tell me what I can touch today. And that was what the whole panel was. And I just said, I wear it as a badge of honor that

we're a startup MLS because we're open-minded and because we're reinventing every day tools of the trade that real estate agents can stay in front of their customers with. And all these technologies do save time. You can be way more effective. Education's the key. That's the power and knowledge, right? I think you started off by saying that Marguerite couldn't be more accurate with that. So that's what we're going to endeavor to do.

And as long as I'm around, I plan to be around for a while. But we're having fun doing what we do. And that's the most, at the end of the day, that's the most important part. Like I said, I feel so blessed. to have been in this industry for all these years. I mean, I'm not looking to retire anytime soon. You know, I'm not sure I'll still be doing this when I'm 90, but, you know, I definitely enjoy and love what I do. And I love that it's always changing and that there's always a new challenge, a new frontier, so to speak, you know, to move towards. And I just, like I said, I feel incredibly

blessed. So I want to thank you so much, Dave, for taking the time today to talk to us. and give us some insight. And I'm excited about the future. Yeah, I am too. You know, the lights in the end of the tunnel. People are really, really worn down of all the negativity, you know, starting with COVID. And then you had the lawsuit and then the elections bummed a bunch of people out, you know, with all this angst. And what I see and feel in the industry is people are ready to have, you know, ready to let go and have some good, you know, you should enjoy what you do.

100%. And give yourself permission to enjoy what it is that you're doing because it does make a difference. And Margaret, thank you for the opportunity to be on your show today. It's absolutely been a privilege and an honor. Thank you. Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Dave. And thank you, everybody, for joining us again on Real Estate, Real World, where we get to talk to all the cool people. And we get to talk to the movers and shakers who are making a difference in our industry. And Dave is no exception. So thank you for joining us. Be sure to follow us on. social media, share with your friends. And if you're not on my email list, I have some really exciting things that are coming out. So head on over to margueritecrestvillo.com and add your name there so you get the first insight on all the cool stuff we're doing. Thank you again, everybody. Go out there

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