KGCI: Real Estate on Air - Scaling Without Breaking: Transitioning from Active Sales to Passive Investment

Episode Date: April 15, 2026

Summary:This episode follows a real estate duo's raw journey from the "treadmill" of active commissions to the stability of passive real estate investing. They discuss the specific burnout triggers in high-volume sales and provide a tactical roadmap for agents looking to diversify their income. The conversation focuses on moving from "selling" real estate to "owning" it, covering the transition from residential sales to small multi-family acquisitions. Agents will learn how to audit their time and finances to begin building a portfolio that offers long-term balance and financial freedom.

Welcome back to another episode of the agent goldmine, where Ali Garcette and Shelby Johnson are, in this episode, we're interviewing each other and talking about our investing journey. So a little bit of a hiatus, just a bit from the typical agent stuff. In case this is your first time listening, we both are top producing agents. We help other real estate agents get from $100,000 a year to $200,000. So if you're already a seasoned agent, And you feel like you're stuck. Reach out to us. We're Allie the agent on Instagram. That's Ali A-L-I. And we are The Shelby Show on Instagram. That's Shelby, S-H-E-L-B-Y. Welcome to the Agent Goldmine, the only podcast in the world,

specifically for real estate agents who are stuck at five transactions a year to help them get to 20 plus. Your host, Ali Garcet, and Shelby Johnson, two E-X-P icon agents, each do over 40 transactions a year, and interview others who are crushing it. In this podcast, you'll receive the knowledge to help you scale your business using systems and processes with our interviews and monologues twice a week. If you want to be a part of our community, reach out. Welcome to the show. So, but on this episode, I wanted to talk a little bit about how I feel like a lot of agents

forget that they should also be buying more properties. And, well, I don't want to say should. Everyone, you know, okay. You know, should is a bad word. But don't forget that as you're helping other people increase their network. earth, increase your own too. So it could be in your own backyard. It could be long distance. It could be whatever. I used to be the co-host of the Invest 2Fi podcast. And both of us, Shelby and I were investors, are investors first. We were investors before we became real estate agents.

So that's how, that's like who our community is too. Really with like with five pillars at EXP, majority of us are investors first. So this one's going to be a little bit more on that topic and a little bit of more background in case you are a new listener. So Shelby at one point had 74 Airbnbs at the age of what, Shelby? That's not quite true. Oh, shit. It's okay. It was so close. Allie, you did so well. I had 74 units. Some call them doors. I only make fun of that now because I went through a whole phase. Okay, if you're just getting into the investing world, there's this thing that investors do.

They're like, how many doors do you have? All right back me up. Oh, and even if they are part of a syndication where they have 1% ownership, they're like, oh, well, I have 300 doors, but it's 1% of that. I'm like, hmm. So anyway, it's this, now it's a joke, which is that was literally me making fun of me from like, four years ago, but that's fine. But yeah, I had 74 units, doors across a variety of different properties from anywhere from condos, single family, duplex, tri-quad, five unit, six unit. My biggest was an eight unit. But the reason why I was like, that's not quite true is because they weren't all

Airbnbs. The most I ever had with Airbnbs was 18 of them of the 74. At what age? At what age? that was by the end of 2020. So I was 30 years old at that time. And you were featured on a couple of magazines, right? Yeah. Business Insider. If you've heard of Business Insider. Also, I was on Bigger Pockets, the episode 406.

That was back when Brandon Turner and David Green were the host. So not quite OG OG because Josh Orkin wasn't there, but it was like OG, like adjacent. It was like pretty OG. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah. So I did those through a variety of different strategies.

People are like, how did you acquire so much? And it wasn't all me. I had partnerships within that. The most I ever had was four people in a partnership, though. It wasn't like a syndication. And then I had, you know, a couple with three people. And I had a couple partnerships, just me and one other. And then, you know, several of them were just myself as well.

And I was very, you know, scrappy back in the day and had to make it work had to invest. Like Ali said, it was investor first type of vibes. Like I got into real estate to gain financial freedom through real estate investing. Like passive income was the goal. And real estate sales was the means to make the money to pour into my passive income, which is funny now looking back. Like I felt so broke for so many years. Like even closing deals, closing deals, closing deals, closing deals because the minute it was closed, even before sometimes, like I had that money gone. The money was straight into either the acquisition or the renovation or the absolute storm that happens when you are a landlord between tenants and just, you know,

the tree that falls on the house, the hurricane that comes through, all of those things. And I'm not here to discourage. Those are, all to say is that acquired a lot. And it was, I mean, amazingly helpful. And I loved, I did offload a bunch since that 2020. I'm down to like, I want to say like 20 now, which actually feels great. Oh yeah. I'm sure that does. I am glad to have, I'm so grateful to have them and investing has helped me in so many ways with my own financial freedom or just not having that feeling of like, oh, how am I going to sustain my life, how I'm going to feed my family, like what is my future look like. Thank God that those things are now no longer a part of my day-to-day

headspace, all due to real estate investing and revenue share. Yeah, revenue share, definitely. I want to go further into that feeling. I read or I heard on a podcast somewhere that like the feeling of, well, you know, like starvation, you know, like I'm one step away from starvation. Like I need to make more. The feeling of not having enough doesn't go away. This is like somebody's theory. Like if you make 100K or you make a million, like that feeling still stays the same. And I think I believe that. Like when I heard that, I was like, that is me.

You know, I'm making about almost I should be making 300K right. Just an agent sales. And I'm like, I still feel as if I'm back in the military like, oh, saving every dollar. You know, like does, do you feel that way too? Really? Okay. How? I don't think it's a money thing because I know that to be true for a lot of people.

It's like no matter how much money they have. And one of my really good friends actually has felt that way for years, even though she's like wildly successful as like an agent and an investor in making boatloads of money. And so I know that like it is a feeling that is very common. But for me, I think a lot of it comes from like my, you know, the psychedelic journey and the reflection and like this inner peace and doing a lot of it comes from like my, you know, the psychedelic journey and like this inner peace. and doing a lot of like work on being present and, you know, understanding like, and I think it also comes from like not wanting a lot too. And I, because I don't. Like, I mean, I have everything that I need. I could want more. And I do want more. Like, I'm not saying that I'm like, good forever. But, like, I look around my house and I'm like, I love being here. And I look at my Subaru, my lesbian car, which I'm not a lesbian, guys. I love being a lesbian. And I'd like go to the gym. Like I love my food that I eat.

I don't know. It's just I feel very at peace and I don't have that panic that I did have and felt strongly for years. So yeah. I think that it's possible to get rid of it as my point. Drugs are the way. And I can't quite it all to drugs because it's also like the work that comes from it. I think that you can have the same effects without drugs.

But the thing with the psychedelics in particular is that. it forces you to sit there because this is what you and I do, Allie, if left to our own advice, we're like, oh my God, I'm going to reflect. I'm going to meditate. How long does it last? Four minutes. I was going to say like, maybe three. Yeah, like I was going to say like 34 seconds. If left to our own device, because we are such go, go, go, go people that it's like, oh, I did it, check the block onto the next task. And I don't think that you can really like go deep and peel back all of the onions of your psyche and your soul and all the shitstorm within it, unless you're like literally forced to do nothing but that for like 12 hours straight.

And there's absolutely no escape. And then you do that once a month for an entire year. And it like, you know. Oh, it's not a one-time thing. Oh, no, no, no. You know that my psychedelic journey has been because it's not, it wasn't just like just about money. This is like a holistic layers of.

And guys, if you're listening to this and you're like, like, Shelby, what are you doing talking about psychedelics? Well, surprise, there's an entire Agent Goldmine episode on this exact topic. I think it's episode three. Oh, yeah. So, like, if you like to go back and figure out how psychedelics changed my life and my business, you're more than welcome to do that. What were we saying?

The moving away from this, I don't want to call it scarcity, but fright. Yeah, I don't know. The flight or flight. No. Or just like being scared of or feeling like you just don't have enough yet. You're not there. You're not there. You're not there. You're not there. Even though your income keeps increasing, you know, like. Well, your expense is increasing. Is there a lifestyle creep? This is not a direct question. Alley. This is like a reflection question for, you know, maybe people who are struggling with us. And I'm not saying this about you, but I'm just saying like, I can absolutely see how the, there would be no change in the safety feeling if the factors grew at the same rate. Because if you're making more, but you're spending more, you're in the same place. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

So you started your psychedelic journey. And then I presume that's before you just that triggered you to start wanting to sell. Like that came first and then you sold. Yeah, actually. That is true. Like I did most of my psychedelic journey in 2020, like those 12 months actually from like, I guess a little bit before COVID through. Okay. And then afterwards, I really, that is where I did like the whole like, what do I actually want in life?

Why am I running so hard every single day chasing, chasing, chasing, like literally killing myself for what? And that's when I was like, I got to pause. I got to take a break. I got to take a knee drink water because I'm doing something wrong here. And that is when I shut down Five Pillars Realty Group. and that is when I started selling off property and thought about what I, what problems I wanted in my world, what did I want to do with my time? It's funny because we started this as like, hey, we're going to talk about real estate investing and suddenly we're back here.

But I mean, there is a connection. And that's your story. So the doors that you have now, the 20, are they co-owned? Do you own it with somebody else or is it just you? We are almost done with all of the partnerships. I think we, We have two more. I know once under contract, it's a single family. It's my first per ever. And it's funny, like when we were deciding to sell this, it kind of hurt. You know, I was like, damn, I guess I do have some emotions. I do have emotional attachment. I like pride myself and like, I'm not a feeler. And I'm like, but wait, that was my first one. And I worked so hard. And you know what I mean? I went through the whole thing. But it is under contract right now. And we have one more

that's a partnership. That last one is a 5050. The one that we're selling now, I'm 66% owner. 33 is my partner. And then the 5051 will be sold the spring. And then that'll be it. And all the rest will be 100% the Drillby Trust. I think it's actually it's called Drillby Trutch, which is like hilarious. It's funny. Yeah. And it's just ours and that's it. Huh. Okay. And that's where you think that you're going to stay for until you get the itch again. Yeah. If I get the itch again. I think that I might, I might down the road because remember there was a time where I'm like,

I'm never going to get back into sales and here I am. And I'm like literally loving it. I'm like having the very best time. So I can never say never when I was like, I'm never going to acquire. No. I mean, I probably will. Let's be real. So sometime I might get more.

But I'm like very happy with especially the fact that like I think I talked about this before. my husband being my finance guy. He's also now, you know, lead property manager and deals with all the rentos or like any issues with utilities or insurance and all that stuff. So like now I'm like, oh yeah, real estate investing is great. I mean, I only have the. This is perfect. Yep, yep. You save on the cost of the property manager because that's your husband. Well, I mean, like we still have a property manager, but if you've been in real estate investing, you know that the property manager needs a manager because unless they're stellar, which we do have one, our one in Washington State, my first ever accidental rental property is like the freaking gem. It has the best property manager

ever. They're amazing. So I know it's possible. It's just we haven't found it yet in Fayville. If you are looking to change brokerages this year so you can increase your business and you want to join us at EXP Realty and would like either myself, Ali Gar said or Shelby Johnson to personally sponsor you in. Set what you have access to two icon agents, text the word join to either my number, 911, 318, 4918, or Shelby's number, 859, 267, 3849. If I sponsor you and you have access to the both of us and everything that's Five Pillars Nation, we have the checklist, the systems, the process is to help you scale your business,

and don't take our word for it. We've had agents switch brokerages to join us that were stuck making 300, $100,000 GCI and they join us so they can scale. So text the word joined to those numbers and we'll take the next steps. Yeah. Okay, cool. And then on my side, I started investing in 2016 and I took the slow route. The owner occupied, move in for a year, move out, rent it out, do it again. year over year. We've done that seven years in a row now. And we're probably going to continue doing that. And then while doing the slow route, it's, we also saved up some more money for down payments here and there for some like long distance investing with just normal

Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, 20% down conventional loan. Like very traditional. This is my first time where I'm under contract right now on a commercial unit, DSCR loan. And I don't think I'll ever go back to Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, unless it's another owner occupied because, oh, my God, the lending. When I'm helping clients get properties and the lender tells me, like, hey, they submitted all their docs and it's been 24 hours, I'm like, that's beautiful. Like, That is so much. That is so, oh my God. They just like continue asking for more and more paperwork.

I hate it. So I think I'm going to continue doing more DSCR loans. But you know what? Because there's no paperwork basically. Because yeah. It's so limited. Yes. Because it's limited.

There is definitely still paperwork. And they're like, oh, another month has passed by. Can we have another checking account stub, which is fine. but it's significantly less than normal loans. And for those of you who don't know what DSCR loans are, that's, is it debt service credit ratio? Is that the abbreviation, Allie? I think coverage ratio.

But yeah, same concept. Basically, if the income from the property can cover the debt, then the lender will finance the loan with other stipulations. Like, you have to have a good credit score. And they like to have a proof of investing history. but otherwise there's like literally nothing they check besides reserves but they don't even it's not even like very thorough and the reason why I'm like bringing this up is because for years I would I could not qualify for like a normal loan conventional type of financing because it just got out in the army I

didn't have income I didn't have the taxes and then my taxes were all just like hot garbage so I was like I don't really have very much anyway and so that's when I started getting all my financing like through S-E-R and I was like, wait, you literally need nothing on me. It's crazy. It's crazy. Like, you say that they need proof of, of past, you know, experienced. I was, I've never been asked. Oh, really? Well, by proof, it's like, how many deals have you done? Like, it's like a question. Yeah, I've done deals. And they're like, okay, good. It's crazy. Yeah, but yeah, they will look at your credit score. They'll pull it multiple times, which is kind of annoying when you have your credit frozen. and they'll ask for just proof that you have the money for the down payment.

So like a literal screenshot. They're asking for, they ask me for a screenshot of my bank account, which is so 100% not what's happening with normal. Yeah, it is. It's beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. So I was like, wow, why have I just been so turned off from D.

I wasn't turned off from D.SERs. I think it was just like the unknown. Totally. And I was like, well, when I max out with my 10 loans per person, he had bread, 20 loans, then we'll give. No, I should have gone DSCR from the start. Yeah. So thank you to Josh Bowerly, who was part of our Five Pillars crew who got me onto that

and connected me with a lender. We've had him on this podcast before. Look him up. He's a CPA by trade. Big time real estate investor. He's like picked up 50, 5-0 properties this year alone and is just crushing it. So what are your goals long term when it comes to real estate investing? No, let's turn this back to you.

you. What are your goals long term when it comes to real estate investing? Because you've picked this back up recently and you are in the process of acquiring that seven unit with your DSCR loan. What are your plans? What is the future either 12 months or 12 years, whatever, 120 years look like for you? Yeah. So since I got my license as an agent, I like fell in love with revenue share. And the amount that I started making with revenue share and helping other agents, which I'd like so much more than taking tenant phone calls, I was like, revenue share is the way. You know, like 100%. I make significantly more with revenue share compared to all of my rental properties combined. So the first three and a half years, you know, since I've been an agent up until now,

I've been 100% like, let me put my real estate investing on hold. Those numbers are not working out. least the deals that I was running. I like RevShare and it can still have the compounding effect with our community continuing to grow. So let me go on all in on that. But now I always, I don't know, I feel like I always want like an even seesaw. Like I don't want all the eggs in one basket. Yeah. Diversify is what they say in the investing world. Very true. Right? Because we're very true. because we're and so I'm like, all right, I really have not shown any love to my rental portfolio.

Like, yes, we're continuing to purchase one property every year. Whoopty-do. At like better rates because it's owner-occupied. And I think we're going to continue doing that. So adding on just a property here and there. But I want to scale that faster. And so this is my first time where I'm under contract on a commercial loan.

I think my next step, to actually answer your question of what my goal is, is I want to do more, I want to do seller financing because at this time, the rates right now aren't the best. You know, like the seven unit, I have 8.375% interest rate. That kind of sucks, you know, so, and I can get a better deal with seller financing. So I just, I want to figure out a way to not have to scout my own deals, like be my own wholesaler, you know, like I'm trying to, I'm still somewhat new to, St. Paul, or at least this area. I kind of like this area as far as investing goes. No one really talks about Minnesota. And I think you could still get some good deals here. The numbers seem to

pencil out. So that's my goal is to pick up some seller financing without a bank, you know, like me put a down payment to the seller and work that out that way. So where I can get a decrease interest rate and it's I can cash flow from day one seller can make money and that's what I'd like to do continuing to do some more on apartment buildings seven 10 maybe 20 units depending on the numbers yeah I think that's good I think the diversification is smart and it's kind of like goes back to the reason why we're going to start this episode where it's like hey just a reminder do this You know, continue to acquire. I know it's hard when you have so many things going on. And especially when you're new, I wouldn't say like maybe do you. But like when you're brand new, fucking, whoa, no cursing.

Figure out one thing first. Figure out how to be an agent. Get that at least to a place where you're like relatively competent and then pick your head up and take on a little more, which in theory, real estate investing. Or you could do it the opposite way. It doesn't matter. But the whole thing is like if you're trying to learn a million different things all at the same time. And, it's going to be really hard to get proficient at anything. But the minute that you do have time, get those doors, baby. Yeah. Yeah.

So to be even more like tactical, I guess, my goal by the end of 2025 is to have $10,000 a month cash flow from rentals alone. So that's my goal. And then at least for the next seven months. Oh, my God, I can't do math. Nine months. And then over on just past that in the next couple of years, just increase that by like, I don't know, another 3,000-ish a month. I'm sure at some point, like I kind of project that my next three years is going to be focus on real estate investing again. And then I'll go back to Rev Share.

And I'll just kind of increase the revenue or the cash flow amongst a two until I pop smoke from this. All the while, you're going to be doing. that daily reflection on who do I really need? Are all of my needs covered? You know, do, am I, yes, like are my, and also being aware of lifestyle creep. Not, this is not directed at Alley, but everyone. As you get more money, pay attention to lifestyle creep because it will creep. And then your, um, terror might, might never go away. So what do you really need? What do you really want? And are you making progress towards that? Yeah. For other people. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely.

Okay. Okay. I think we did it. We're about to hop off and do business brainstorm with our Five Pillars Nation community. And if you guys are interested in learning more about what we do in the land of Five Pillars Nation, please hit us up, Allie and Shelby. Wow. Ali and myself, I hate that I just did that.

We would love to talk to you about it. And otherwise, be a bro and share this show.