KGCI: Real Estate on Air - Stacking the Deck - How Strategic Thinkers Win Big in Real Estate with Kendall Bonner

Episode Date: September 13, 2025

Friday Focus is your weekly mini-series from KGCI Real Estate On Air—a deep dive into one theme, broken into tactical, easy-to-implement episodes. Every Friday and Saturday, we unpack the strategies, scripts, and systems agents use to win more business—without the fluff.Catch every episode in the series to get the full picture, and put these moves into play by Monday.SummaryThis episode is a masterclass in strategic thinking, featuring an essential conversation with real estate leader and coach Kendall Bonner. The discussion goes beyond a simple "hustle" mentality, revealing that the most successful agents don't just work hard—they work smart. You'll learn how to approach every aspect of your business with a strategic, data-driven mindset, allowing you to stack the odds in your favor, dominate your market, and build a predictable business that wins every time.Key TakeawaysStrategic Thinking vs. Tactical Thinking: Understand the difference between these two vital mindsets. The episode emphasizes that tactical thinking is about doing the daily tasks, while strategic thinking is about having a clear plan that positions you for long-term success. You'll learn how to allocate your time to big-picture thinking that drives results.The "Motivated Mover" Playbook: Discover how to attract the most active buyers and sellers in any market. The discussion reveals a strategic playbook for using value-based messaging that speaks directly to a client's specific life events, such as upsizing, downsizing, or relocating.Negotiation is Your Most Valuable Skill: Learn why a real estate career is fundamentally about negotiation, not sales. The episode highlights how to approach every interaction—from a client consultation to an offer—with a strategic mindset that seeks a win-win solution and demonstrates your true value as a dealmaker.Leverage Technology for a Competitive Edge: Understand that technology is not a "nice-to-have" but a non-negotiable part of your strategy. The discussion showcases how to use technology to create leverage, automate tasks, and build a seamless client experience that differentiates you from the competition.Topics:Kendall BonnerStrategic thinkingReal estate business growthReal estate techNegotiation skillsCall-to-ActionReady to start stacking the deck in your favor? Listen to the full episode on your favorite podcast platform and start building a winning strategy today! Ready for more? Subscribe to KGCI Real Estate On Air and grab the Always Free Real Estate On Air Mobile App for iPhone and Android. Inside, you’ll find our complete archive, 24/7 stream, and every Friday Focus mini-series—ready when you are.

What actually works. What's to do next? Here's the breakdown from this week's Friday focus on KGCI, real estate on air. Seven figure success starts when you start thinking like a CEO. Welcome to the John Kitchens coach podcast experience. This is your host, John Kitchens. You're ready to think bigger and transform your business into a path to lasting freedom. What's up?

I've been looking forward to this. Actually, I was looking forward to it, even coming out of Seattle. And you said something that, like, made me, I sat back down and I was thinking about it, right? And we'll get, I want to get into this with you a little bit later because I think what you're doing, like, and this, I told, who did I tell? I told the boys probably. I was like, you want to pay attention to where EXP's going? Just go pay attention to what Kendall's doing. And just everything kind of, and I'll get out there, kind of what it reminds me of, but you said something.

And I was asking you a business idea and a question just to get, because I know you're going to have an opinion, which is why I wanted to ask you. And you talked about addressable market. And you, I want you to clarify because what I heard, because we were talking about, you know, business brokers, business broker, whatever. And then we were talking about it. You go, listen, how we're thinking about it is there's only $4 million in the addressable market. I said, wait, hold on. Kendall, are you telling me that you're making decisions based upon a number of home sales instead of a number of agents? So like, talk me through this, kind of where how you talked about addressable market with home sales versus agent count. Well, you know, it's actually all of the above, right?

I mean, because when it comes to home sales, that's units, right? And when we think about units and we think about, it depends to on what the question is, right? and what the business opportunity is and what the, and I'm always talking about, okay, what's the addressable market? What's the return investment? In fact, I had a conversation with an agent about this the other day. And it's not just about, like, is it worth it for us to do something or not do something, but really just those deeper conversations and strategic analyses that has to be done when you're thinking about where to spend your time, money, and energy, right? And it's, even more complex at a corporate level because the spend, the effort, the investigation,

all of that is so much bigger at this level than anything else I've ever done, of course, you know, even though I've been a broker-owner, I've been a team owner, I've been a top-producing agent working at this level at XP has just really up to my skill set and up to my knowledge base and up to my strategic thinking. And so when you're, depending on what you're talking about, the addressable market can be the agent count or the agent population, but it also has to coincide with what's the opportunity when you're thinking about the agent population, right? Knowing that the majority of agents are selling, you know, anywhere from one to four houses a year, one to four units compared to top teams or commercial agents, for example, how much business. are they doing? And so, and how much of that it makes up the marketplace. So it's just more along the lines of, I honestly don't remember specifically what you and I were talking about, but I talk about a

addressable market and I think about it a lot. And I think about all of that, all those moving parts when I'm thinking about whether we should bring in a new trusted provider for our EXP solutions, what the technology tools that we bring into our tech stack versus, you know, those that we offer independently to our agents. So thinking about all those different things, but I think it's important to even as you parcel out agents, depending on what you're talking about, what's the likelihood of them being able on a transaction to be able to actually effectively utilize whatever that tool service is because some tools are connected to the transaction.

So that's why it all matters. Yeah. That makes sense. That really does, right? Because you can go back and then, you know, what product do they have? How much real product are they actually going to be able to sell in this year, 18, 24, 36 months? Right.

As you're kind of thinking. Yeah. Some tools are specific to unit, right? And again, like, if you're dealing with teams, teams tend to do more units. than a single agent typically, right? And so the address will market, even on a team, like from an agent perspective, might be smaller,

but their opportunity to effectuate on that product or service because it's tied to transaction could be greater than, you know, a different agent in a different circumstance. Yeah. And I want to come around to this question, what you're doing. And the way I was kind of thinking about listening to, you know, to you in Seattle and everything else that you're doing, there's a book.

And I tried to recall the book with you. I found the book. And so it is called Stacking the Deck by David Patrick, I think is the author. And essentially, we read, we were, I found that book and started reading it when we were starting to figure out part. partner with the brokerage in in Texas. And when we came to Texas, we just tried to emulate the model that we had built in Oklahoma in Lawton. Well, polar opposite markets, right?

Small town, you know, Lawton, Oklahoma, you know, 100,000 in the entire county, 4,000 on a great year, typically 3, 3,500 total opportunities in the market home sales, transaction, total transactions. And so then you come into DFW, right? So we had built a very, very massive brand. And you couldn't go anywhere without seeing us or like, who's the top agent? They're going to say us one or two. And so you're getting down into DFW and like nobody cares, right?

That just doesn't. It's a completely different game. So we learned quickly what we were trying to do, salary listing agent model. It just wasn't working. So we then said, okay, here's what. we're going to do. We were working out of the NAEA office and we had a conversation with our lender who had an office that was absolutely amazing, but he had the backside. So he had an entire floor and he just had his mortgage company on one side. He didn't have anything. It just became available.

And so we're like, listen, we're going nine miles south and we're going to restructure and rebuild this whole thing. And that's when we went partner and, you know, our promise was, you know, we guarantee you four new listings in your markets are. service area. So you were signing up. You actually had to write us a check to come on board and you got your market service area. But we followed that book, really kind of what they were talking about, which is completely off org. So it made me think kind of the path that you're navigating, you know, completely off org. You have your own marketing team. You have everything that that you're doing to operate within the ecosystem. But you're over here just figuring things out. So my question then,

as I'm listening to you kind of go through the addressable market and you're thinking through things strategically with EXP solutions, who are you thinking about? And the reason I ask, I ask this, what type of agent are you thinking about? Because that statistic, and you can maybe put some, correct me on this, but it's 98, almost 99% of agents at EXP that sell more than 20 homes a year, they don't leave. Yeah. You got the right retention metric? that's a Leo question. He memorizes those numbers. I'm not that great at that. I'm not going to lie.

I'm impressed by his memory of the stats. I don't remember what the stat is, but it is a very strong stat regarding our productive agents for sure. And I think actually the number of units is actually, I don't even know if it's as high as 20. I think it's actually even lower. But I'm sure the higher it goes, the more retention, the stronger retention rate becomes. However, to answer your question, like, who am I thinking about when I'm thinking about EXP solutions? It depends on the solution. So one of the things that I'm looking at when a opportunity comes in is who is the target audience?

Who is the agent that this tool service, SaaS, whatever it is, is going to speak to the loudest, right? And so for me, it's important that while we do have an amazing, we have several amazing communities in our agent population. You have an amazing group of team leaders and teams, right? I mean, we have the top teams in the country at the XP and they do a phenomenal business. What I find the most interesting about top teams is typically live in their own ecosystem, right? their own set of tools. They typically use a lot of the same tools because they, you know, team leaders talk.

And they like the same, they like to leverage trusted tools. I did the same thing when I started my team. I went and interviewed a bunch of my friends who were team leaders, got a sense of like, what tools are you using? And I did the same thing with my brokerage where I started my companies with what I believed to be and what I learned at that time was the best in class tool at that time, regardless of cost. So that was something that was really important to me. I knew I wanted to invest in the best in class tool that would scale with me because I never intended to stay where I was

at, which is a different mindset. I think that most people getting into a business, they think about what can I afford today, not what I need for tomorrow. They find themselves getting stock or having to transition tools later in the game, things of that nature. But so yeah, so they live in there Our team leaders typically live in a, I won't say a closed ecosystem, but typically they have and drive their own tools. The next group of amazing leaders that we have are top producers, right? And these top producers tend to have their own systems. And then you have your up-and-coming agents and you have your new licensees. And we have strong populations in all of the above, right?

what I find my goal is is to find tools that I know are important to make major growth. Some of those, like for example, our up-and-comer agents, they are looking for opportunities to what is the tool that they should be looking for, right, or that they should be leveraging. So, you know, they're open. And also so are new licensees. they also tend to be pretty open with what tools that they are open to exploring and learning. And so I'm always looking for things that how do I help agents sell more houses, right, and be more productive, regardless of what group their category they're in.

And number two, how do we upgrade the client experience, right? So what are the tools that are going to help them do more and less time and more efficiently, right? And more beautifully or more effectively, right? those are the kinds of things I'm thinking about, you know, is how is it going to serve the various population. So I never really have any one agent in mind avatar, but I do always associate an avatar with each tool before I agree to bring them into our world, as well as when it comes to marketing them. That's actually part of, literally a part of our process that

my marketing team has to decide and determine who are we talking to when we leverage this tool. Yeah, I love that. So I'm always curious, and that's why I love this series, right, the agent to see it, because I just love how, you know, how do you make decisions, right? How decisions are made and kind of the process that you go through. And everybody has the process. Some are aware of it. Some are not. And so sell more houses upgrade the experience. At this level, Kendall, how important is it to have kind of with those, you know, different resources and things that you're bringing in, how important is it to still have core value alignment with those companies and our core values? I think it's always important, right? I mean,

I think we have nine core values. There's always, there's a few that always kind of pop out to me that really resonate to like transparency is one, that we're agile is another one, for example. So, you know, because we're such a fast-moving, innovative company, those things definitely matter. So, you know, when we get a ton of applications, I'll say, for to become a solution. And we do find them through, you know, a matrix. And we are investigating them. We also will investigate who the CEO is. Like, that's part of the process that my team is supposed to, you know, be vetting these solutions through.

Now, I will tell you, I inherited several solutions. So I can't speak to what was done in the past. But I know since I took over last year, I spent all of Q4 just rewriting the entire program. And it's in writing, it's documented. But like, we have a fully documented systematized process. Right. So that is important to me, you know, from the application to launch, through the ongoing marketing and reviews, we do QMRs with our trust providers. So every quarter we're checking in, going over the numbers, how are things going? And, you know, how can we improve and upgrade the marketing that we do for the following quarter? So those are all puzzle pieces and then that we put together. And then, you know, we are always. fine tuning and improving the process as we go along because, you know, you do things and then you realize like, hey, we could actually do that more efficiently. So let's try it this way. Or hey,

we tried that. We realized there's a gap here. Let's let's build a system and an SOP for that. And it's really funny for me to even use these words because I'm a entrepreneur and a former visionary. I can we transition to this? Because this is kind of funny to me. Let's do it. because this is thinking about as a CEO to like someone who worked with a CEO. I used to, my husband was the operator slash integrator. I was the visionary in our past, you know, in the real estate space before me coming into this role here. And my husband used to get so upset with me because, one, he wanted me to write stuff down and I refused. Like, get it out of your brain, Kendall.

that's not a system, right? Like, get it on paper. And or to systematize things or that certainly stop changing it. Like every time I was like, oh, I got a better idea. Let's do this. And he would call him like dropping grenades like in the meetings. And I was like, no, but this is a really good idea. Is he a processor?

He was. Yeah. Like he's analytical. He's also a lawyer. So he just. Yeah. He's just more process oriented than I was, right? But this is the beauty of working with your opposite, right? Of your, in terms of like your strengths and your weaknesses, because he would make me do roles in the company that I hated because he's like, well, you need to know how this works if you're going to be the owner of the company. And that was his lesson. My lesson was I don't need to hire. I don't need to do that because I'm going to hire to my weaknesses. Exactly. I default to your thinking, too. I'm leverage. I'm all about leverage. I don't need to learn how to do it if I can pay someone

to do it for me and they do it better than I ever could do it, right? Like, I'd rather do that. So we taught each other is what we've learned. Like, he taught me things. I've taught him things. And so now coming into this role at EXP where I, you know, I'm a leader of my department, but I'm definitely a general or our two footgirls. I don't know anything about ranks. But like, you know, I report to someone who is our true leader. And my job is to effectuate their goals. And that has been like super enlightening, empowering, challenging, but not in a bad way, like in a good way.

And also, like, it's really helped me to take. what I know how to do and all the skills I have from my entire educational background, like and bringing it forward in a real way. And so it's been a lot of fun hearing because, you know, Leo doesn't necessarily come to me and say, Kendall, I want this, this, this, this, and this. Really what he does is he plants a seed. That's a beautiful. I see that in him. I see that his leadership style is more of that. Yeah. Yeah, he'll plant a seed and they'll say, Kendall, I think I want, I think I want X. Like, and I'm like, okay. Can me. a minute and I think about it and I start I get to let he allows me to still envision his vision

and bring it to life you know and he will care about certain big picture things he might give me a couple of guardrails but then after that he sets me free to go like operationalize it to put it together to think about the systems and process think about the department and that has been probably one of the coolest experiences I have had. And the fact that he trusts me to do it has been like really one of like the best experiences I've had at each. That's that I picked up on that pretty quick. I picked up on that just, you know, even you coming into Cleveland last year.

I picked up on it and yeah, I mean, you are operating, stacking the deck operation. You are, I mean, that's it's textbook to what what you're doing. It's really awesome to see. And, you know, thinking back to kind of those decisions and those filters, the value, you lined out a couple of them. The big one that really resonated with me with EXP, where I, after proof, I then, I don't question anything anymore, although you should still always kind of question a little bit. However, if we're using the values as guardrails to make better decisions, the one, the one,

that really resonates with me the most is sustainability. And, you know, that goes back from the very first day, the very first meeting encounter with, with Glenn and Jason of, you know, and I shared that story in Seattle, being able to sit in hear from them, but then able to see that inaction in Orlando less than six months later. and then every decision after that was, is this going to be sustainable in the long run? And after you see it a couple times, then you just don't question it.

They're like, hey, we're making a move here. And I'm like, okay, well, I'm sure because it's sustainable, right? It's going to allow us to continue, you know, into the future. You did say something, you know, the vet out process of CEOs. Is there a particular trait that you really resonate with or pay attention to the most that, like, if they don't have this, it's a hard no or I really want to see this in the CEO and their leadership team before we align with them? Good question. I'm actually looking for why not to work with them as opposed to why too. So to be perfectly honest, I'm definitely looking for red flags.

So that's important to me. And also, I think it's important when you're working with a good leader, because it's not always a CEO I'm dealing with, you know, depending on the size of the company, when we're vetting these tools. We're looking for leaders who are truly committed to the ultimate client, right, which is our agents. And so sometimes these tools and services service the agent directly. Some of them they service the agent's clients, you know, the customer. And so, but at the end of the day, the agent is the hub, right, where all things really kind of matter for EXP, right? It really comes down to the agent at our company and the value and the importance and

how much we want to support them. So I'm always looking for for vendors and leaders who are, who recognize like it's not just your relationship with XP at a corporate level. Like I don't need you to kiss my butt. Like that's not my ego does not require that at all. So they don't say things to because you think that's what I want to hear as far as like me. Say things that tell me you know who.

the real MVP is, right? Like who the BIP is. So like when I hear from parties and I hear language that really respects and understands who the most valuable player is, which is the agent, that kind of stuff like really, that resonates for me because I want to make sure that the focus always stays there. Yeah, 100%. And it's something just paying attention to lately, just kind of navigating, you know, the terrain with AI and just navigating the waters

and, you know, as we're getting closer to, you know, whatever this may look like in the future, it really comes down to like agents. And, you know, you look at ICPs, you look at the avatar process and everything. And it's at the end of the day, right? You know, people want results, but they actually just want a job done. And so, like, what job can this provide to help our agents? But the thing, even Dan Kennedy is talking about it a lot. And it's like, listen, if you focus on the competition, you're going to lose.

You have to focus on the customer. And I think, you know, in this regard, you know, if they're coming in and they're, you know, obsessed with the customer, then I can see, you know, hey, this possibly could work. But to me, it would be a red flag too, like if they're not even talking about the customer. Yeah. And, you know, you talked about AI and all that stuff. That's also a really, like, fascinating topic to me. so if we want to talk about that too.

But it is so important that when you're thinking about a customer or the client, right, it's no longer about customer service. It's about client experience. And I think like that is something that I've been trying to impress upon agents over and over and over again across my career. because a lot of agents, you know, they even advertise. My customer service is so great. And I'm like, change your language because that what that, think about what that actually means.

Who calls customer service? Upset clients. Upset every time. Yeah. You don't call customer service unless you're upset, right? You're not calling customer service because everything was beautiful and great and it went according to plan. So why market the thing that already has a negative connotation in the, you know, at least even

subconsciously, if nothing else, and the mind of the person you're trying to impress. Rather, focus on experience. And the other, like, defining point to that, I always remind people is the difference between customer service is reactionary. Client experience is proactive, right? It is something you do on the front end to prevent the need for customer service. You know what I mean? And so I would say start promoting the client experience.

and stack the deck in that manner. Like, what are the tools? What are the services? What are the experiences? I want someone who works with me to have and decide that before the transaction occurs. Yeah. And when you do that, that is when you start to have, you know, better relationships with their clients, more repeat business, more referral, things of that nature. But also remember this, I would say to any agent.

leader listening is that when it comes to client experience, it's not, because it's proactive, it's not random. It's intentional. Very intentional. It's documented. It's systematized. It's processed. It's scaled. It's leveraged. Right. It's all of those things over, you know, and hopefully also eventually over time, you know, you get to be able, because once you document, that's when you can leverage, right? And so in fact, I was telling my own team, we're going doing an exercise right now that I know they groaned as I told them we're going to start doing me for the next two weeks. But I was like, listen, we have to slow down to speed up. Yeah. That's a real thing.

It is. I love that. And, you know, as you're just kind of going through there, with your background, right, every word matters. So even it's not even customer experience. It's client experience. And, you know, for us, that was Jay Abraham 101. And he was like, listen, a customer is what you are to Walmart, right? Yeah, they just, they want to, they just want to, they want you to buy every little thing.

They're trying to increase your transaction. Like, a client is under your care, right? Like, it's, it's such a, you know, just slight distinction, but it's a massive distinction between client and customer. So being able to use that, understand what a client is versus a customer. and then I'm so with you, right? It is 1,000% about the experience. Yeah.

And I'm just going to throw this grenade out there. It also does matter what state you're in because legally client and customer have like legal definitions. And so you have the attorney in there. Agents are like, no, I can't call them clients. They're customers in my state. Like it's okay. You know, just know.

Hey, listen. Every state it's different. Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story. Kendall, come on. I'm so precise and oh my God, so bad. So why real estate, right? You know, attorney by by trade, you and your husband, law school, come to Florida. Like, why real estate? I get that question a lot. And it was the story is actually not, probably not that original, I would say, arguably. and probably not that complicated. I literally was bored with what I was doing.

And I was at that time. So I practiced law for several years. I never wanted to be an attorney. A lot of people who know me have heard the story. So I'll make it very brief. My mother was a doctor. And when I was a child, she raised me. She's like, JD, MD, PhD, pick one.

She was an MD. I knew I didn't want to do that. I went to graduate school while I was in college. So while I was in high school, I went to college for a summer. And in college, I was a McNair scholar. So I went to graduate school while I was in college ahead, right? And so I picked up credits. And I realized that I was not mature enough for a PhD.

But that was my ultimate goal was to go that route. When I realized this, I said, you know what? I'm going to go to law school to buy myself some time so I can mature. I needed structure. I needed like semester, class, exam, next class. It's an entrepreneur in you. You need some framework. I needed a framework instructor.

I knew that they're a very young age, like 19 years old. I figured myself out. So I knew where I would succeed and fail. So I used to do things that would set myself up for success. So I ended up going to law school and I never intended to practice law. I didn't even register for the California bar because I just, was not planning to go or to be a lawyer. But I met my husband there. And then he, you know, has his influence and was like, I wanted to graduate and go to school, back to school. And he was like,

no, you have school debt, which I did. I got a full actually scholarship to law school. Like, it paid all three years in my tuition. But I would borrow money. I went to Europe for a summer. I went to the University of Beloney. It's not a power in you. Yes. I borrowed money to buy a laptop. Back then, the laptops were super expensive. Borrowed money to live. So, like, I did come out of school with school debt. So he's like, hey, we had to pay our student loans.

Like, you can't borrow any more money. And I was like, shoot. So Dream Crushed. And for, if you know, you know, that's a whole other story. Dream Crusher is my nickname for my husband. So I'm practicing law. I did criminal defense. I did jury trials. I did the, you know, went to the jails. I mean, I did all that stuff. I did

bankruptcy law. I did workers comp insurance defense. I did like three different practice areas over the course of almost 10 years. And I was good at it. I just didn't enjoy it. And so I have this obsession with joy and peace. I never chased money. I, I've always chased from a career perspective, like peace of mind, happiness, like, do I enjoy what I do? And I learn that. because my mother worked really hard, made a lot of money, but in my mind, she was not happy. And so that was always my, like, frame. So I, real estate was like, oh, we were buying houses. And I was like, oh, I like looking at houses. I'm going to get my little estate license. I'm bored. It'll be something to do part time. I'll sell two or three houses a year.

people will hire me just because I'm a lawyer. All this foolishness was, again, I think why it's unoriginal is because I think every new licensee has these dreams of grandeur. They think those state is something completely different than what it actually is. And we all have these big plans for our career and it's going to look a particular way. And then the world happens and it doesn't look anything like that. Right. So that happened to me.

everyone. I ended up getting my license. And I, the first within, I went to every training my brokerage offered in the first 30 days. And I came out of that with two listings. My first closing was a listing. My first contract was a listing agreement. My first closing was a listing. I never looked back from that. I ended up hating looking at houses and showing homes. Like I didn't even work with buyers for the first year and a half, two years. I didn't know how. I was like, I don't have a process for that, but I had a process for listings. So I took a lot of listings and I did a lot of short sales. And I just happened into something that I realized like within literally within 30 to 45 days of signing all of my brokerage.

And the very first listing I got like, I loved it. I was like, this is for me. And I quit taking bankruptcy clients at the time. I basically told my husband, I'm done. I'm going to service the clients that I have. but I'm done. I'm not completely new business. So all of my chapter sevens that I was working on employment are all going to shift to you.

And I'm going to solely focus on real estate. And I think it took my husband about 10 years to forgive me for abandoning him. I would say more or less. But I hit the ground running and I freaking loved it. And I was good at it. And again, it was that mix of skill set. And what's the most ironic of all of this is in law school, your first year, you take two of your required classes are real property and contracts.

And I hated both. They were like my least favorite classes of all lawful. And then here I am. Here you are. What was what was the like the lure or the enticement to jump on board with your role at EXP? I don't know that there was. Well, actually I would say that the lure was working with Leo easily. That's actually an easy answer.

It was to work with Leo. I got exposed to Leo almost right away after coming to EXP. Veronica Figaro is my sponsor at EXP, and I came over with my team. I sold my brokerage and came over with my team as a team leader. And she did a phenomenal job of making sure that I shook hands with the right people and that she introduced me to the Upline. I mean, I got to meet Brent Gove really early on. and Jane Frederick, Benham Jean House, you know, in Puerto Rico.

Like, she really did a great job exposing me to all the amazing leaders we have at EXP and Leo being one of those. Glenn, too. I was like, had Glenn cell phone, like, really early on in that whole process, which I thought was crazy. Still think it's crazy. He does call me back when I call him or text him. And so with Leo, we were talking, I was also simultaneously during that time, a lot of the NAR stuff was happening, all the litigation and all of that.

And so Leo and I really kind of bonded over having conversations about the future of the industry. And so we would have, you know, I would call Leo for like advice about stuff and thoughts and we would spitball ideas. And, you know, it was really interesting time because. he was kind of realizing like leaning in. And I kept saying, and I remember going to him and saying to him, Leo, we got to stand out as a leader. Like you guys need to get really noisy. And I remember his first reaction, which was the one that I think every leader had, which is, well, we're part of active litigation. I can't talk about it. You know, and I was like, I don't care. The industry needs a voice. Yeah. I was like, we need to get loud. And somewhere in between,

that and, you know, his CEO title, he, he made the decision that he was going to become a voice. And he really became the voice, right? But I don't even know if that was his original plan. I think his original plan was like, let me just start getting out there. I do have opinions about these things and I do care. And then, but he's risen up as the voice. And it's been so inspiring to watch and to be just even just a viewer. of that whole evolution.

But he was the reason. And also his previous job, so Chief Strategy Officer was something that, like, I was really into because I was like, oh, we know a lot of the same people, the vendors. Like, I've been known as, like, the tech queen. And, like, I loved all things, technology and these relationships.

I already had a lot of the same relationships. I was already on the AI boat way before everyone else really kind of have gotten on that wave. And so I was talking about things from from that perspective so early on. So for me, like he was just, he was the only person in the industry that I had seen doing something even remotely close to what I felt like I was already doing in my micro world, but he did it at such a much bigger level that I was like, I want to be him when I grow up. Yeah. That's why, you know, I say, you know, pay attention to what you're doing just because I saw that bond early on with you,

with you too. And, you know, when when you're navigating any type of terrain, any, any type of ship or endeavor, right, you really lean on, you know, the people that you can trust, right? That, that you trust at a high, high level that, you know, have the, really the moral authority to really execute on whatever it is that you need to execute on. And I'm like, that there's a connection there and kind of where where you know what he's he trusts in you so much and what you're doing that's why you know i just like pay attention to kendall it's going to navigate because he you know he trust her and it's perfect for you know kind of the the shift in in the industry um as we turned into a headwind right because as as ex p was gaining that early momentum um that happened overnight yeah right

10 years in and then it starts to gain the momentum. But once you have that, there is also an element of ROL, right? There is an element of return on luck that we were positioned in the timing and, oh, Gove comes over, or Gene comes over, Gove comes over, we come over, right? And it was just kind of like the perfect storm. So there is ROL. And yet the market made the shift 22. 23,

whatever, we kind of got into a headwind. And not saying that Glenn couldn't navigate the headwind, of course he could. But you just get to a certain point,

you know, decades of navigating and building. Sometimes you're just like, let me get this dog in here, let him handle it, right? Some people are just built for headwind. And so I think it's just

kind of everything lined up. Really perfect. I think it was, is a combination of things. I think one, Glenn has a lot of innovative, experimental, ingenuity. Like, he's got that, like, he's going to innovate. Like, right? He is a true visionary. And I think even part of that comes a bit of, I would even do. dare say wisdom, right? That says, hey, listen, like my skill set was building this amazing engine and it's taking off. But there's like this really big storm coming, right? And maybe the pilot,

you know, needs to shift a little bit who can focus in that direction, who can come in with a clean, like a whole different mentality or mindset. You know, some people like, Leo to being a wartime leader. More time general versus peacetime. Yeah. He's a wartime leader. And I think he really, really stepped up in that. But I think what also happened

ironically around the same time was Glenn got to shift and pivot to where I think his real interest at that time was, which was international. Because I remember being at the gathering by Housing Wire that

April, right, I think right before, yeah, it was right before I accepted this position. In fact, I was in the middle of negotiating it. And so it was an April event. And I remember watching Glenn on stage and him talk about, and I recorded pieces of it. He said, you know, the future for EXP, you know, right now we're the largest brokerage, you know, by age and count and transaction side. And that was true to use it. Two years ago, as it is remains to be true today. And he said, but the next level for, you. for EXP is to be the number one brand, right? Because a lot of people try to compare us to other brands,

but they're franchises. They're different models than our model, right? And so, you know, it's almost like comparing apples to oranges. It's like they're not really comparable, right? You can't compare a Remax brand or a Keller Williams brand with an EXP, you know, and try to equate that to the same because they're different models, right? So, but where he was going was, man, if we grew our agent count to this, this, you know, a number he, he projected at that time. I think it was like 250,000 or something like that.

He's like, we would not only be the largest brokerage, but we would be the largest brand. Brand. Yes, at that time. And he's like, and then, but this was the next thing he said after that. And he said, and the path to that is international. is through international growth. And I'll never forget that conversation. And so ironically, what, two months later,

he was able to pivot and lead the growth of international. And since, you know, or maybe that wasn't 2023, that's 2024, sorry. You know, that was because that was last year. So 2024, you know, he takes over and he's leading international and look at the phenomenal explosive growth, experience international is having and that continues to have you know because he went in and he disrupted yeah and that's what he likes he in fact i heard you know if it ain't broke break it yeah that's his that's his mentality right that's what he's thinking and i you know kendall i love it right

you know i've got um a couple guys in portugal that i've been working with for now three four years and i was talking with um j and al about it um just earlier this morning, because Jay was having a conversation with somebody in the UK, which is wild to even think, right? Like we're having global conversations. I love it. And he's like, just talking about how much of it really kind of a shit show it is. And I said, hey, listen, I said, just let them know that it takes years in that type of climate

because we're just now starting to see it in Portugal. And it's taken three plus years to get the mentality of the brokers, the mentality. the mentality of the agents, the mentality of the buyers and sellers. It takes time, but it's really cool to where it's starting to go. And you're so spot on. And I think, too, Kendall, once you have an understanding of how real estate is done internationally, you appreciate the way it's done here in the States so much more. Oh, yeah.

Agreed. I mean, during the NAR talk, not that I want to talk about that anymore, ever again. during that time it was always so frustrating to me that people would often compare our model to other more broken models. And I'm like, we're not going backwards, friends. So it compare us to other models. If you speak to leaders in those countries, those models are even more broken than our own. So why would we compare that way?

But to the original point you were making about the experience, and growing international is that they're startups. I mean, they're literally starting ground up one country at a time. And it's, we have to remember what was it like, what did it take for Glenn to get us from where we were, where we started, you know, to where we are today. And so, you know, are we going to go out and galvanize in those countries one country at a time?

because if we do, that's how he got us here. He went and traveled the country. He galvanized people and leaders all over the country, one state at a time, like one stop at a time. And that's how he triggered and inspired growth, right? And we just have to remember that it's easy for us to judge from afar, but go be boots on the ground. I mean, we've got XP International coming up here shortly with the time of us recording this and filming this.

We're in June and the event is in just a couple of weeks. If you want to see XP International exponentially grow and take advantage of all of the momentum that East P. U.S. and Canada have had, go be a boot on the ground and go participate in the galvanizing of the local people to help, you know, create that momentum and to duplicate and replicate that momentum, that's what it's going to take. Yeah. It's not going to be the staff at EXP delivering a world-class experience. I mean, that's going to be great, and that's what it should be. But we're going to need the heroes and the she-rose of EXP going out and, you know,

raising the bar and raising the attention and the intention. You nailed what you said, and it just, it's so true. when we're breaking into these these countries, it is a startup and understand what it takes to it's, I mean, it's escape velocity, right? So it's just like to get it even up that momentum. It's so, so much force until you can get, until you can, you know, get the plane up in the air. Yeah. But it is a startup. And so you go back to what does startups take? It takes intention over time. and like anything worth building this is what like people need to realize it takes decades not years

right decades and that's what it took glen right when this thing what finally triggered 10 years almost 10 years in before it finally just like caught yeah right and we're still growing we're still learning we're still pivoting we're still agile yeah we're still doing all of that 100 so I want to I want to ask you this question and we can kind of start to to wrap up here Kendall into the future okay into the future right having the conversations with leo where where are we going Kendall you have your crystal ball out i know talking a lot with ai understand like what what you guys are doing really running the to be the number one brand in all of real estate off of custom gpts like where is the future what like where do you see the industry where do you see how critical

or in alignment or empowered, you know, the company is we are with AI. Like, take us out into the future. So I always feel like that's a Glenn question when people ask me. But it's fun to hypothesize and to dream about what it could look like. And like I said, I'm a big believer of envision the vision. And so for me, I would say that we are definitely moving towards a, AI-based foundation. I'll say that, right? There's a foundation of leveraging artificial intelligence, predictive analytics, machine learning, all of that is going to be a root foundation of,

I think everything we do in the country, not just in real estate. And I could, and point to many things for that. I mean, even just, you know, Lenar just finished building a community in Texas, I believe, with an AI printer, right? Like, that's freaking cool. And if you're not paying attention to stuff like that as a real estate professional, you should be. In fact, I wrote an article about this and I talked about that. I talked about how, you know, some of this blockage we have in real estate is because we're not leveraging AI like we should. Like, for example, permitting. Why aren't we leveraging AI AI to expedite and fast forward the permitting process, right? Like there's all these ways we can use it. But anyway, I digress on that piece. But I will

just say this. I think agents, and everyone already, I think, says this all the time. It's not that AI is going to replace the agent, but the agent who leverages AI is going to replace the one that doesn't. Right. That's commonly said. But what I want to remind people, it's not just about being an agent who leverages AI. It is an agent who is skilled in AI. And there's a difference between using it and treating it like a skill, like a muscle that you flex and exercise every single day. I have to tell you, Glenn has created an environment at EXP amongst the staff that we are invited we are encouraged and we are expected to leverage AI in our roles.

Why are we asked to do that? Number one, I'm sure he believes it will streamline, create efficiencies, upgrade the output, right? But it's not just a matter of like Chitebt or Gemini, rewrite this email, although that's great or Fixer, right? Like those are all great ways to use AI. But I read a book recently that like my mind with how AI can help me do my business better, which is a different kind of question, right?

How can AI help me? And so the book is called the AI Driven Leader by Jeff Woods. I believe is his last name, Jeff Woods. And that's Jeff with a G. And I have leveraged AI in so many cool. ways and like I said, a lot of the leadership has at EXP. We've been, like I said, encourage and invited to find ways to get away from a spreadsheet and into a tool. And hey, why do we need to buy a tool? Can we build it ourselves leveraging AI? Like there's this really cool,

like, you know, lovable. Like all these eight in, are in eight in, you know, there's automations that can be created. Like, how are we not thinking about every day? How do I streamline my business. Another book I read was Buy Back Your Town by Dan Martel. You know, how are you leveraging your time and your energy and your output, right, and giving your best if you're not leveraging AI. Like this morning, I operationalized an entire program, leveraging AI this morning for a major rollout that's coming to EXP here soon. And it was not a fasting. It was just more I've learned how it's a skill. Like I learned how to engage my AI. It's such a much higher level than my perhaps most of my peers because I know how to get it to work with me and

for me. And as opposed to it just, you know, out, you know, because I do believe garbage in, garbage out. A thousand percent. That's any data, any tool. Yes. You put bad stuff in, bad stuff comes out. Yeah. When you teach it how to work with you and you also have a skill, like you understand how it needs to work with you, how it can work with you. Man, I am boom, boom, boom, like the playbook. I love it.

And you got to, and we have to remember too to be careful because, and it goes back to even what we were talking about in Seattle is that, to your point, right? Like if you're not upgrading yourself, then you're only going to be putting out because, you know, custom, you know, even, you know, Chad GPT is confirmation bias. Kendall, that's the greatest thing ever. Let's execute on that. Right. So it hits you with that dopamine that you might be sending you down the wrong path. It could be the worst idea in history, but it's going to tell you this is the greatest thing ever.

So being able to have that. One of the reels that has been sticking with me a lot lately was Gentleman asked PBD kind of his best piece of advice, and he gave three points. One about dominating business and life. The other was kids and the other was marriage. The first point he said is he was talking to a gentleman, were they were at a party and he's like I want to be the best like the best and he said let me show

you something and so they were up kind of elevated platform or second and they were looking down over the party and he's just just it was like the who's who right you know top of the top might have been a you know fortune you know 500 ink 5 000 event or something and he said listen he said see all of these these people out here that you say you want to be better than in six successful. He said they'll read 15, 30, 40 books max in their life. He said, keep going. He said, you never stop upgrading you. You never stop reading. You will, you will, you will blow by them because they only have a limited knowledge base that they'll just keep regurgitating, but you can keep going. And that with what Glenn's talking about with what you're saying, and it comes back

down, we're talking about core values earlier. One that is non-negotiable for me is continuous growth personally and professionally. Like the second that I know you're not trying to upgrade, the second I know you're not reading something, the second I know you're not consuming trying to get better, I just don't have any room for you in my life. I just, I don't. And it's, to me, it's so, so important because like you said, that's the only way to continue to progress because on the flip side and I think you and I talked about this in Seattle I you know I'm always ping and stringer about it is because you don't hear a lot of people talking about but it's the it's the consumer the AI driven consumer and are you are you pacing or are

they outpacing you like like where are you on that spectrum dealing with the consumer that is AI driven. So that's just kind of interesting into the future with your crystal ball, how to continue to navigate those waters. Yeah. And what you're saying, I love, agree, cosign, all those things. And it reminds me of something you said, remind me of my team that we built, my husband and I built that he now runs, which our mission is to have the best mindset, skill sets, tool sets. And it's something that, like, We obsess about, right? And I would, you know, the mindset, right?

Are you self-improving? Are you focused on personal and professional growth, your relationships, you know, all those different things, right? Having that great, the best mindset. And then skill set, right? Are you focused on your skills? And then, of course, the tech nerd in me is tools, right? And AI is a part of all of that, right?

And that you've got to like pivot your mindset around artificial intelligence and AI. You've got to pivot your skill set around it, and you need to pivot your tool set around it. I mean, there's more than one AI tool out there. I would not go all in on just one. I would learn more than one. I would learn, you know, what are the different things? Because there's so many tools,

and they interconnect and they can speak to each other at times. And there's real opportunity for you to become more consistent, more proficient and more efficient in your business by leveraging AI. Like I'm a huge proponent of that and will continue to be because it's a game changer. Yeah, it is. It's, yeah, I love it. I mean, it's not a day that goes by, right? Like for me and strategic thinking and thinking and books and consuming this.

And yeah, it definitely is, man. It's a very awesome time that we're living in. And you know, you mentioned something, you know, extremely painful. I think if you could have navigated the short sell era, you can navigate anything. That's what my husband would tell me. I don't know. My husband is, he's such a one amazing partner and business leader. And but he is also like my biggest fan.

So he'll always like hype me up about stuff. I mean, he sees me better than I see me, and I'm very grateful for that. Yeah, it's important to have that circle around you. I can see it. Kendall, you're absolutely amazing. Thank you for carving out the time, jumping in here, and just been a fun conversation. I was really looking forward to this. Thank you.

It was my pleasure. I appreciate you. Thank you for having me on. Thanks, Kendall. Thanks, guys. See it. That's a wrap for today. I hope you got something valuable from this episode.

If you did, hit follow and visit johncitchens.com. coach for more ways we can work together. See you on the next episode.