KGCI: Real Estate on Air - Taking Market Share in a Down Market with Karin Head

Episode Date: September 20, 2024

everybody, log in. It is so good to see you all this morning. Real quick for me, if you are watching this live today, go ahead and drop live in the chat box. If you're watching it recorded, right? Recorded. I want to see who's on here at 8.30 in the morning on a Thursday. Welcome back to Feeling Lucky, where we find out that your most successful people in your markets also fell on their faces, also had challenges, also had setbacks, and yet are still successful. So, It's not just about rolling out of bed one day and just being perfect. So today we have Karen Head, Head of the Head of the Head. There we go.

Let's try it again. The main real estate group. She is the team lead and rock star. And Karen, welcome. How are you? My friend, it's great to be here with you today. I'm excited to talk about all my failures in short ones. It's always fun.

Honestly, I love talking about my failures. It's like, all right, I learned some stuff. You know, even this last year was like, Yep, I learned some things. We're going to grow from this. It's going to be good. So share with the class today. For those who don't know you, tell us a little bit about your success.

We'll start from there, right? Like, who are you? Where did you start out? And where are you now? And what, you know, we're going to dive into what it took to get there. But where are you now that success? Well, I started at a small boutique brokerage and helped them build the brokerage there. that was in 2009 when effectively the market crashed in 2009 lenders weren't making loans.

And I came from a sales background. So I felt like I was perfect to get into real estate because I could learn for a year or two years. I didn't have to earn an income. My husband had a job. But we were swiping that credit card. And I was spending money faster than we could make it. The economy was crashing in 2009. So I started in real estate really in the pit.

And, you know, for me, I'm a grinder. I'm going to outwork everyone. So I just watched. And there weren't really training classes back in 2009. So I just watched what people did well and what people poorly. And that was my education. Then I found some books on real estate eventually. And I thought, oh, I would rip out pages of these books and post them on my wall.

I would start doing different marketing things. And so in 2014, I left that boutique brokerage and started a Keller with a group of 10 investors and went to Salem. So I had 10% of that and left that in 2016 in Open Care and Head Realty. And in 2018, aligned with EXP and never looked back. I mean, like we're now exactly four years at EXP was the best. business decision I've ever made. I love it. I love it. So for you, obviously, you came in like the perfect time in real estate, right? The sky was falling. Everything was on fire, which is great. Now people are looking at our current market as if everything's fire. It's really not.

But everybody is scared of the market right now or many people are. And yet I'd like to highlight, you know, what did your team, and you don't have to give us exact numbers, but what did your team do this last year, you know, or what were some of the accomplishments you were able to have because of real estate. We're right now at about 45 million, I think, for the year. And I now have 10 agents, but I really, I had full-time agents about four this year. So four to five, and the rest were part-time and we've just added some. So now we're up to 10. So I would just like to kind of go back to that 2009 era when people were telling me what a great time it was and what a bad time it was to get in real estate and now it's the exact same thing so it's a different reason for

a crash but it's the same thing so i hear all these agents say it's not the same thing it's the same thing it's a market crash it's a correction you call it whatever you want um interest rates are sky high now they weren't sky high back in 2009 so right for me much lower there, about 4%-ish. And now rates are at 6-7%, but it's the same thing. So when the rates go up, the prices come down. And when the prices go up and the rates are down because it's just, it's self-correcting with the whole Federal Reserve thing and what they're trying to do with inflation.

You and I would love to have our own podcast just on that, wouldn't we? Oh, my gosh. I know. And the Fed is what's doing this. They cause the inflation and they caused our huge. numbers. I don't know if you checked it this morning. I think we're at 8.1% as an interest rate as of this morning, which is wonderful for everybody that's out there looking. But let's note, it started at 3.22, January 22 is 3.22. So the Fed has increased the interest rate. Now,

mind you, if this happened over time, we would have no problem, right? If this was a percentage point a year, flexing just a little bit at a time, we're talking like five points. in 12 months or less than 12 months, honestly. Well, it's crazy. And this is what we're talking to our clients about is go ahead and list your house, buy something smaller, be savvy,

buy something smaller, wait for prices to settle down. Rates will, they'll have to drop rates eventually. Because they've just exploded, imploded blown up the market. And so the Federal Reserve is going to have to eventually do an about face. There, efforts to control market conditions is really, well, you know how I feel. Oh, I know.

It's basically, it's, I'm a free market kind of girl myself. I know you are as well. It will regulate itself if not regulated and do it in a much, much nicer way. But here's the thing. Here's what I want to point out for those that are watching. Karen is ahead of, and I say ahead of this, understands what's happening. When you understand what's happening, you can come to your clients with that knowledge base and come with that demeanor of, I'm confident. This, I know this, right? So, like, knowing it and feeling it, you have to come with that confidence, but you're

only going to get that confidence if you are truly studying the market and seeing what's going on. If you're just blissfully unaware and your people are calling you going, oh, my God, it's 8% now. What are we going to do? Yeah, it is 8%. And that's okay. Like, we're going to find a way around this.

here are our options. You know, let's go new construction where they're going to pay you $30,000, you know, towards your rate down. Like there's things that that's the benefit now. Right. Biers are going to or sellers are going to do stuff for the buyers, right? We're going like full 180 from the last two years where like you're giving your firstborn child and an extra 50K.

Yeah, and a kidney. And yeah. And you don't even know if the floor is going to hold up, but that's fine, right? to, hey, let's negotiate this. Hey, let's get some closing costs. Hey, help me buy this rate down. And those are now opportunities. If us as agents, which you have done a great job of doing this with your team and yourself,

educate yourself and be confident in the information you're bringing. And I think that's what's gotten you as far as you have is really that confidence. I mean, that's me guessing. But what's your thought on that? Well, it's confidence. It's knowledge. It's expertise. It is.

I constantly, I don't just study. the real estate market. I am knee deep in the stock market, knee deep in the investment markets, crypto, blockchain, NFT. So I'm studying all of it and I love it all. So it's fun for me. Yeah. But if you take a timeline, so I've started buying actually historic books, historic books on the economy and predictions to see who's getting it right and who's getting it wrong. It's pretty cool when you start reading those, isn't it? I started doing it. It really is. I mean, you can go to Edwin McKay bookstore and buy 50 books for 125 bucks. So I've just like giddy when I go there. And I'm dyslexic. So you know, I've got ADHD dyslexic.

And auditory processing. But when you can take a look at these charts and start charting out the markets and what has happened in the past, it's really fascinating. to see and it really, there's nothing new under the sun. No. Nothing new under the sun. It's all been done. It's all history. It repeats itself over and over and over and over. So if we're just looking at the last 10 years, we're not going to get the full picture. If we look at the last 100 to 200 years, we see, oh, this is a cycle. Everything that has happened throughout history is a cycle. So if we can understand where the cycle is going, we're basically, it's as good as having a crystal ball. We can tell you right now, okay, if this is where we're at today in four years, this is where we'll be.

And I think one thing that you're really great at is speaking to that, especially to clients, where it's don't fall for fear, purchase, purchase and hold. Like they're not making any more land. And even when people were buying property back right after the crash of 07 or right, even during that, we have surpassed those prices, right? So people are freaking out about, oh, I bought my house in 07 and I way overpaid. Yeah, maybe for then you felt like you did, even though it was matching what the market was allowing. But you've now surpassed those prices. So it will come back. It's just more of a win. Well, and I don't like people to ever be in a position where their house poor. I want people in an affordable space. So I'm sorry if you can't afford a million dollar house right now and you have to, for a 700,000, it's smarter to do that and wait things out and see how they settle out than to buy some taxes your income in a time when inflation is rising. So I'd much rather people be in a spot where

they can afford to have a life. And I know that kind of goes against the sales, you know, upsell everybody, but I don't like upselling people to the point where they're pressed and stressed because then they wind up getting divorced and I want my friends to stay together. And if they get divorced. I'm, you know, neutral party. But I, you know, it's, it's a stressful situation when people overspend on a house. And when they're smart, they can really make money. We just, I listed one this year at 1.45 and at one, yeah, about 1.45. It sold for 1.35, but they bought the house for $900,000, 11 months before. So they made $450,000 in 11 months.

Can you hear me? That's crazy. Isn't that one year? And they're building a new house. So what they did is they, I suggested instead of renting a space, buy a little $350,000 house. So they bought a small house. Yeah. They're building their house.

So they could make it their own, 350. They paid cash for it because they made $450,000 off the first house. And they can rent it. 11. Yeah. And then they'll move into the new house, rent this one, and have a nice house in their portfolio. So when you have an established, smart agent with some experience, they can advise you of intelligent moves versus just buying and selling, buying and selling. You have to make smart moves with your money.

I love that. I love that. So let's backtrack because, you know, I know you just like, well, go. one day, rock star agent, crushing it since day one, never stopped. You know, you just excellence. But I know there was setbacks. So when you started your real estate career, and I'm always curious to hear because everybody's first year is different. Like some people are rock stars. Some people are like, I sold nothing. I was speaking to somebody else today. They were like, yeah, my first year, I made $16,000, which wasn't even profit because I still had expenses.

And they kept going and they're a rock star. What was a, a, what was that first year like for you in real estate? It was 2009. And I don't know if you remember, your viewers will remember this. But back then, the market had crashed in late 2018. Lenders, you know, countrywide was falling apart while Cobia became Wells Fargo. All these banks were crashing. Nobody was making loans that the credit unions were making loans.

But that was it. And it was pretty much to people that didn't need a loan, really. Yeah. Or they did the first time home buyer incentive where you had an $8,000, you know, statewide credit that had payback if you sold within 10 years. Well, who didn't sell within 10 years? So it was a bad, bad government program. Once again, government gets involved.

It's bad program. That first year, I went back and looked. I already knew I made $14,800 my first year in real estate. I sold about five houses in 2009 and I was telling somebody, I made more money bartending in 1989 as a 19 year old than I did my first year in real estate. That's awesome. You know, it's also tripled from there because I was very connected and, you know, I can remember my husband saying to me,

you're going to have to get a real job. This is costing us a lot of money. And it was very stressful on the family. I was like, okay, how are we going to get the kids off the bus? And I was doing a mom at the time. So I was getting them off the bus and going to all of their stuff and dragging them around town and, you know, building a real estate career. And it just snowballed from there. That's awesome.

That's awesome. So getting in, obviously, it's not smooth sailing. but once you've got your feet under you, share with us. You know, there's always this one, I say one. It happens to me every three years where I kind of get a little squirrel because I'm like, oh, I want to go dive into these other things, you know, and try to figure out a new, not career, but other areas where I want to just excel in and I start diving and squirreling away from my day-to-day real estate.

But sometimes it's someone throws a complete wrench in the cob. And for you, what would you say one of your? biggest setbacks that you had in your career in real estate was and how'd you overcome that? Okay, so when I left that first boutique brokerage, five years after I started with them, I had 40 listings and four new developments. Wow. And they told everybody that I moved to Lake Norman and that I had moved out of town and told me I wasn't allowed to talk to them.

And so they took all my listings, with the exception of a handful that called me and said, what you happened? Yeah. And I said, I left to start my own firm and with a group of people. And, you know, that was that was a setback, but it really wasn't. So here's why it wasn't a setback. Because I cut my losses. I never looked back.

I always look forward. If I can get 40 listings, I can go get 40 more. If I can get four new developments, I can go get four more. So I never look back at the loss. I look at everything as a lesson or winning. And I'm always winning or learning a lesson. And that's very valuable. I love that.

I love that. Something that could have been a complete setback, which anybody who's ever changed firms, that's a fear for many. I mean, I know I came from KW where they do allow you to take your business with you as long as it's not under contract, which is understandable.

But for many, that's something that's scary, you know, because you're being, and I'm trying to remember the phrase that goes along with it, but basically it's kind of, you're kind of chained, right? It's one of those I can leave.

And yeah, eventually I can, I would be more profitable and I can see that, but they're going to take what I worked so hard for. And what happens is because of that little pull back, most don't make the change. So for you, I mean, just talking straight numbers with the boutique brokerage, I presume you're probably paying them quite a bit.

Yeah. And then, I mean, yeah. I don't like to look back at that, but I'll just tell you this. I was like, okay, well, whatever, you can have them. And it was a different time and things didn't sell. And nobody taught me how to price things correctly. Nobody taught me how to do things the right way in real estate.

Everything I learned, I learned on my own. And then I started learning from real experts and really good people. And I dove in starting in 2014 and educating myself about real estate, everything I could learn. Because I was spinning my wheels before I was stressed out working 100 hour weeks. I was working literally all the time. My husband said, you know, we switched from, you can't do this job. There's not enough money in it, $14,800 to when he started saying, you're working too much, $40,000 checks and different checks like that.

He was like, oh, my gosh, you're literally working all the time, all the time. You're working in your sleep. You're waking up to work. in the middle of the night. And I still do that. I still wake up in the middle of the night. And go out work, right in the middle of the night.

I love it. I don't care. It's my hobby. Uh-huh. But that's where the big shift happens. And again, no not often anybody who's with a boutique brokerage, but what I wanted to emphasize

that you're pointing out is there was a benefit to you making a change. Like as painful as it was to make that change, the other side was going to be so much more advantageous. when it came to your earnings, the people that you were around, the relationships that you were making the brand that you were making for yourself, right? Because you probably couldn't brand yourself with a boutique brokerage. So you taking that step, which many don't take,

it was a set back that springboarded you forward. And you could have lingered in the, oh, poor me, look at what they did to me. But instead, you took it as an opportunity to go, well, I'm going to go kick some more ass. So just watch. I never looked at. I mean, I was told. by people friends of mine at the new firm they would they would say like sometimes you have to take a step back to go forward and I was like I don't care I just cut my losses and moved on I just cut my losses

and I moved on I'm not going to sweat the small things I had one friend that left berkshire hathaway in Greensboro and I mean they kept like $150,000 of her money and I just thought that was dirty because if she was ever going to go back she wasn't going to go back there no nope this was Yeah, right. So now for you, what would you say one of your other major, I would say setbacks or challenges was, especially as a business leader? What's hard when you run a team or brokerage is you pour into your people, literally everything you have, every ounce of training that you could possibly give them, you give them access to your whole entire universe. And then you have those that just really want to learn from you and take from you. And that's painful and hurtful.

I would say that's one of the things that's the hardest about owning a brokerage or running a team. And I run my brokerage under EXP or in conjunction with EXP or dual affiliated North Carolina. But I think that's the hardest part. And it, you know, everybody wants to have their name on the door. but only the 1% are willing to do the work it takes to become that 1%. I agree with that. And a lot don't understand the liability too. And I say liability, not in a negative connotation, but there's upkeep. You know, how much does it cost to step through those doors and have that established?

There's an out-of-pocket expense. Yeah, mine's $27,000 a month. Yeah, mine's 24. So it's it, but that's going to happen. whether we sell a house or don't sell a house, that is an expense that happens every single month. Right. And you have to know that you can handle that if the whole world falls apart or you have no agents and you have to do it on your own. You have to know that you can handle that liability and that risk. And most of you cannot. Now, for you, obviously, neither one of us started just wanting to like shell out

24K. And I know both of us started really modestly. But where did you feel that you, what was your first leverage point because that's something that's always very interesting to me. Some bring on a buyer's agent, some it's an assistant, some it's a VA. What was your first leverage point when you hit what was starting to cap you out? My first hire was not a great hire. My first hire could not sit at her desk. She didn't like to actually do the things I asked her to do. So we had to part ways. And my amazing hire, Othia, who was awesome. she had a military background. She was close to retirement age with her military pension.

And she came to me and said, why didn't you ask me to interview for your job as your assistant? And I said, oh, I didn't know you'd want to interview. She was like, yeah. And so she really was the catalyst that she was just amazing. So a good hire is an amazing hire. And my team now is awesome. I love that. I love that.

And that's, I'm going to point this out too. Those of you that don't think you should or could hire someone, it's time. I remember my very first coach told me, until you're doing X number of transactions, you should not have an assistant. And I remember thinking to myself, well, that doesn't make sense. Shouldn't I do it? Like when I really feel like I'm ramping up to hitting that number because I don't want to just read like my hair on fire and then go, oh, shit, I need help now because then I can't

actually train someone. And I made my first hire and it was a terrible hire. It was absolutely awful. My first one was a VA. And I don't believe it was this girl's fault. It was mine because I didn't know how to lead and no idea and no idea how to train or lead or really anything. And they weren't in the room with me, which made it even harder. So then I was like, okay, well, let me hire someone physically here.

And I did. First person that walked through the door, she looked like she might work. And it didn't work out. She was late every single day. I went out of town for 10 days and she never showed up at the door. the office. I found out the week that I came back and things were being dropped. I was like, well, this isn't working either. So I almost gave up on the whole, maybe I'm not meant to have this. Maybe this isn't meant for me. Maybe I should, I'm just not going to be someone who has help,

but I kept going. And that's actually when I found my phenomenal hires now my, my director operations. And I'll never forget. It would be like halfway through the day and you go, do you have anything for me to do? And I'm like, no. that's okay. If you guys are in that space, be ready to just start offloading. And that's, that's when you really start to leverage even more because you realize how many things you're doing that you don't need to be the one to do it. Someone else can physically do it. Now, for me, I know that helped my business grow quite a bit. How was that for you? I mean, once you finally made that correct hire. When I made that correct hire, I had such a sense of relief because I was

working, I was dropping balls. I was, I had people that wanted land and wanted to build and I couldn't figure out how to get it all done. Nobody was teaching me at this boutique brokerage. Nobody knew how to teach me to grow my business. So it was on me to figure out that I had to hire somebody. And when I hired her, she organized everything. And I can remember I would work all weekend long and I would come in with all these folders and I would flop them down on her desk and she was like okay girl sit down and tell me what's going on and so we would sit down we called it touching the files and so we would go through every file that I had all the listings I had coming the buyers I got under contract the buyer agencies the everything everything and she would start organizing it

and scheduling it because it was really good at marketing sales can I'm sure super connected in my community. I know a lot of people. I know a lot of agents. And so she would help me get everything organized. Back then, we were doing broke opens because things, you know, didn't sell immediately. Yep. Because we didn't know not to overpriced everything. That's coming again. I'm already seen it happen. Those expired listings are looking real good lately. We're making some calls. And and you know what? That's why because agents are overpricing their properties. they're stuck in the last six month mentality or last year and a half mentality versus we're really back to like 2019 pricing. So whatever the comp looked like in 2019 is probably where we are

today. That's how I'm seeing it with pricing right now at this point. Let me even timeframe, right? This is something where we've been so used to telling our clients for so long. Don't worry, we'll have it under contract in hours. Right. And there we put it on the market and it's there for two days and they are losing it because they've only had two showings. And we have to, you know, it's coming to them with that education, that knowledge that says, well, yes, let's, you know, let's step back. And this is something we, you guys can use this, take it. But when you're talking with your sellers, you need to also be having a buyer conversation. So like when we're sitting now with buyers, what are we explaining? Here's what interest rates and

how they work. Here's how payments work. Here's how your pre-approval works. And now we're having to explain to our clients, yes, I know your neighbor up the street got 25 offers and one under contract in 18 minutes. However, that was January of 22, 2022, when the rates were 3.22. With every percentage point higher, you lose 11% of buying power. Is that what it is? Wait, say that again. So for every 1% increase in the interest rate, you lose approximately 11% in buying power. Wow. which is substantial. And a lot of people don't think of it that way, but I'm running numbers right here because I want to give you real numbers. If people were pre-approved back in January for a $300,000 house, right? So that was, we're going to go by today's interest rate of 8%, which is mind-boggling.

So that's a 4.78% increase. All right. So let me do this map. I'm trying to figure out math here. This is never my strong suit times 0.0. 0.11. So you lose $33,000 of buying power with each point. Wow. Times 4.78, I think is what I said out loud. So between January being pre-approved and today being pre-approved, they can now afford a house $157,000 less than they could have in January. Wow. That's crazy. Yes. Now let's think about this, you guys. Are prices dropping by almost 50%? No, and they're not going to. They're correcting. You guys are seeing this. They're correcting. However, this is a massive shift. So when you guys are going out there and you're listing homes, you need to understand the buyer side of things.

Otherwise, you can't educate your seller on what's happening. And they think it's you. So one, know how to price it, but know how to price it for this market. We cannot push pricing right now because it's not going to get sold. So get down to what's really making people sell. Now, Karen, tell us a little bit about this. You were there in the throes of it. You had plenty of listings and things were selling. It just took a little while. Where were you finding this? You said you obviously were very connected, but, you know, things didn't sell sometimes. So what were you doing in the meantime? Were you prospecting? Were you just out kissing babies? What were you doing? I was the only agent that I knew that actually spent money on marketing.

And people saw that. And I did a lot of social media, even when it was brand new. I started, I started with postcards and newspaper ads. And I was actually advertising listings. And that's why I got listings. Because I was actually doing, I was advertising as, you know, Premier Agent Odillo and back then Trulia and realtor. I was actually spending money on listings. And nobody else was. doing that. I mean, I remember saying to somebody in my office, well, I spent a lot of money on this listing. I don't think I'm going to make it back. She was like, all I do is stick it in the MLS and put a sign on the yard. And I said, that's your problem. And that's why you're not making what I'm making. That's your problem. And this was back in like 2012 or 2013. We have a fiduciary duty to our clients to do the very best thing that we can do every single time. And I would rather lose money on a listing than not get it sold. And I would rather. have the hard conversations with my sellers about pricing and the market. And I will take,

I will take my computer and show them the market. I would rather them see it for themselves than to think I'm just can't do my job because I'm going to do everything I can at 110% level, but I can't control market conditions like 8% interest rates. And I did not know today that they were at 8%. Yeah, it's honestly, it's changing daily. So don't. And that's, it's changing daily. Um, but one thing I kind of want to highlight for you guys, I don't know if you heard this, but Karen just said that she invested in marketing. Now, I will point out, I was taught and it was drilled into me. You never put any money into marketing. And I was like three or four years. I was probably about four years in the business, if not a little bit later on.

It was probably five years of the business. And I'm seeing. some of who had I consider my friendly competition in, you know, in the business, suddenly taking off leaps and bounds. All I was doing was Fisbo's and expired, some past clients, and they were just taking off when it came to their sales numbers. And I'm going, wow, how are they doing that? You know, what's going on there? And it's because they started investing. They started investing in the marketing. And it's like when we went to business mastery with Tony Robbins, it's okay, you've learned the skills now turn on, and put into opening that, you know, that funnel where you put money in and you get stuff back

out. But here's what I'm going to warn you with. Two things. One, pick the right place to put that. In certain markets, Zillow is better than others, right? In certain markets, Facebook ads are better than others. In certain markets, Google ads are better than others. In certain markets, but you also need to build your brand. And I think I really want to highlight that's what you did. was you put money into marketing and leads for listings, but you also built your brand around that, right? Like it wasn't just a one way thing. It was, okay, yeah, this is what I do.

Now I'm going to emphasize it on social media. Now I'm going to tell the whole world what I do and how I do it and where my successes are and it draws more people in. But what I also want to highlight that you said, when people were running away, you were doubling down on your business. And that is why you are part of the reason, and why you are where you are now is because you took market share when other people were running away.

Well, and that's happening right now, right? Everybody's freaking out. They're winging out. I'm like, okay, what are some fun things we can do with marketing dollars? Talk about doubling down. It's not double down. It's triple down. It's you're going to work two or three times harder now than you've ever worked in real estate for half the return.

but the other side of that mountain is massive success. Massive success. And so people will 10x their thinking and shift their mindset and stop thinking about how hard it is. Think about how you get to do this every day. We get to go to work. We get to help people. And we're going to have to be helping a lot more people. More foreclosures.

We're going to see more divorces. This is stressful, money. Short sale. Yeah. Divorce. All those. scary things in people's life, people moving. This is real life for people.

And if you care about people, you will 10x for them too. And so the market is prepped for people who really are going to take it to the next level. I love that. I love that. A lot of opportunity. So I know we went a little bit over. I feel like this is my M.O. It's like five minutes over every time.

But with that in mind, what would be your number one? bit of advice that you would give any agent at any level at this point in time, especially being where we are right now in the market. What would be your suggestion to them? Become the expert. Be out there, be visible, talk to everyone that you should not have a stranger in your community. You should know everyone. Should be out there helping people do things for teachers, do things at church, do things for your neighborhood. Just get your name out there. Part of branding is, making sure your brand looks exactly the same on every single platform and every single thing you do.

And start watching the big dogs and don't take their stuff. Create your own value. Create your own brand, your own look, your own thought process. And those authentic clients will come to you and you'll build a huge business. I love that. I love that. And guys, your brand is you. Karen is her brand.

Not just because it's her name. They go to Karen because they like Karen. They like what Karen speaks. She speaks the truth, her truth, and nothing about the truth. But she has her own personality. So don't try and be Karen, be you because people are drawn to you, and then you're going to find your best clients. So Karen, thank you so much for being on today. Hopefully you guys have gleaned some notes.

I know I took some notes myself. So I will be applying that as well. And like she said, triple down on your business. It's going to be the hardest couple of years you're going to work in real estate and the most advantageous on the other side. So unless you only plan on being in for a year, double triple down, guys. Thanks so much, Karen. And I'll see you guys all again next Thursday at 8.30m. We're feeling lucky.

Thanks, Kayla. Have a great day. You too. For more information and to follow along, be sure to follow at Kayla Lindsay Realtor on all social media platforms.