KGCI: Real Estate on Air - The Psychology of Real Estate Cindi Blackwood

Episode Date: January 15, 2025

Welcome to Real Estate Real World, where we talk to the mover, shakers, and leaders that are getting it done right now in the real estate industry and beyond. Your host, Marguerite Crispello, started this podcast simply dedicated to call people about what's really happening in this crazy roller coaster ride of real estate. Be sure to subscribe on iTunes and stay up today on the newest stuff by adding yourself to the list at WWW. www. realestate real world.com. Now your host, Marguerite Chris Bellow. Hi, Chris Bellow and welcome to another fabulous episode of Real Estate Real World, where we get to talk to all the cool people. I was thinking today that it's almost 30 years that I've been in real estate, and one of my favorite things is to talk to other agents who have been around a long time. I met our upcoming guest, Cindy Blackwood. Years and years ago, actually shortly after I joined the EXP,

and I was super honored to be able to have her join me in this venture and be a business partner with me at EXP. I've known her from the REO days when she was doing a ton of REO and she was originally based out of Arkansas. And so let me read her quick bio. Introducing Cindy Blackwood, a distinguished executive associate broker at EXP Realty in Arkansas and Georgia, with a multi-million dollar production record and extensive experience in various aspects. of residential real estate. She's a problem-solving expert with a passion for helping clients. Cindy is also a licensed real estate instructor committed to upholding the profession's integrity. Beyond her career, she's deeply involved in her community, serving as the director of Camp Alex,

a certified grief recovery specialist, a mentor, and a board member of the Alex Blackwood Foundation for Hope. She's also a fitness instructor, active volunteer in various community events. Cindy Blackwood is a remarkable professional dedicated to both her clients and our community. Welcome, welcome, Cindy. Hi, Marguerite. It's so exciting to be here with you. I just always love visiting with you. I all am so excited to have you because I know we've talked about it for a long time. And a combination of schedules and life, we just haven't been able to make this happen. But I'm really incredibly honored to have you here today. And I've so much respect for what you have done and built and created in your lifetime. You're quite an underestimated powerhouse, I'll put it that way.

Thank you. I have had a great mentor, and that's you. And you have, you've helped me in many ways, not just professionally, but also personally. And I'm very grateful for our friendship. Oh, right back at you, my friend. So how long have you actually been in real estate now? A hundred years. It feels like enough. It does. I got my real estate license kicking and screaming, I like to say, because I was managing our apartments. And when my former husband decided to get his real estate license, he said, you got to do this. And I was like, I'll never work in real estate. No, I don't want to work with buyers and sellers. I'm only doing this because it's going to make it easier for the company. So I went and did that. And as we have, some of us have eaten words over the years, and I certainly have to. And so I began just being on the outskirts of different things, new home warranty, like I said, property management. And then in 2008, I really started full-time working with buyers and sellers and became

a broker in 2010 and expanded that to Georgia and 2019. So it just keeps going to became an instructor five years ago or so. So just continue in this field. I always say that I stick. I have stuck with real estate because I don't get bored. If you get bored in real estate, it's your own fault. Oh, for sure. Things are changing every day, aren't they?

Yes, all the time. So there's just always something new to learn, which I like about the industry. It's funny because I got into real estate the same way. My husband was in the mortgage business and interest rates had dropped to an all-time low of 8%, which is where they are now. And it was refi-manian. He said, you should go do refis. You should go do loans.

I was like, hey, yeah. So I got my real estate license, December of 93, it would be 30 years this year. And I did loans for a year and I hated it. I was like, yeah, loans are not for me. So it was no fun at all. And so 2008 and you started doing that really in one of the toughest markets in history. Absolutely. I say I cut my teeth in the foreclosure world because that's when I was working full time.

And as just so many hours, you just don't even know if you're, waking up or going to bed. So I really got started when we were the largest REO brokerage in the state. And so we were covering the whole state of Arkansas. And I was working with buyers primarily. So that's how I got started in that market. And that's how I met your former husband. I met him at an REO conference in Texas. And we were at like that, a bunch of us were at that bar called Billy Bobbs or something. I don't know. From the John Travolta movie, I I think it was. And we ended up having so much fun.

And I stayed in contact with him. And then I got the pleasure of meeting you and connecting with you. And so we met in the REO world for sure. Yes. Yeah. That was an interesting time for sure. But it was a lot of volume. And I learned so much that then has helped just like I know it has you when we've

just gone through this multi-offer. We were used to that back in the REO days. For sure. A lot of helpful information and learning. back in those days. What I think what I learned the most during the REO days was really learning how to pull and understand statistics for the market, right? And understanding how the numbers really tell you what direction to go. Because we used to have to run statistics on the market almost every day for BPO's and REOs and stuff like that. And so we could see what was happening with the market

long before I would say the average agent knew what was going on. Yeah, that's very true. And so one of the things that I did want to talk a little bit about today because we addressed it in your bio was the Alex Blackwood Foundation. So can you give us, because we share something in common. We've both lost a child. And tell me, if you want to tell our audience how that came about, what happened and how that came about. So in 2008, then we lost our son from undiagnosed depression that resulted in suicide. It came as a huge shock to us. We had no idea that this was a problem. He didn't know what was going on either. He just knew that there was something off. And obviously, it completely just rocked our world. And we began to delve into how come we didn't know this was a problem and what can we do about this? How can we learn more? How can we educate people, break the size? violence, removed the stigma. We became as a family, my former husband, myself, my daughter, all through different avenues and then sometimes collectively, but we really became involved in that world. We did run a camp. My daughter and I called Camp Alex, and we did that for seven years

for kids who have lost someone to suicide. And I always said it was the hardest and most rewarding week of my life every year. And I have the most heartwarming stories from that and just the, what a privilege it was to be able to walk alongside these kids who had suffered because our daughter was 13 when she lost her brother. And so we had experience with what it's like to have another child that's also going through that. And through all of this process, that led me in 2016, went to an event that we were recommended to go to called Spark of Life, and we learned about grief recovery. And so that's how I became acquainted with the grief aspect of it

and became a grief recovery specialist then in 2017. And you may be thinking, what does that mean? You're just helping people with when they lose people. It's actually a lot more involved than that, because a loss I'm going to define is a change in circumstance. or a familiar pattern of behavior. Change in circumstances or familiar pattern of behavior. So this happens all the time.

And it's not just negative things. And then grief is the conflicting feelings as a result of that loss. So I give an example of when our daughter went to college, we had visited colleges for years. She had been obsessed with college literally since she was a child. just very unique. And she finally found the right one. She got in. It was truly this incredible, joyful time. And when she moved 11 hours away, our house became quiet because of this change in a familiar pattern of behavior and circumstances, we had the house with the open door. So it was

just her. It was kids in and out and in and out. And they all left. And it was such a difficult time. And it was a loss. So it was great. She got to go to the wonderful college. She went to Ferman. She went to the college she dreamed of. And it was a loss because it was such a change. And just it people go through losses so often because it's part of life. It's part of evolving in life. I don't think that there are enough conversations around the emptiness syndrome, right? Because I went through the same thing when my youngest son John moved away and I was heartbroken. I was just devastated because same thing. We always had all the boys here and hanging out and everything going on. And now I was like walking through this house. There's no one to cook for, no one to clean for, no one to nothing. And I remember I make a joke about this now because I was like calling and texting my son every day. Right. Finally he's mom. You're like a crazy ex-girlfriend. I was like, stop. And it took, I think it took. took me a good year to get through that. And I kept telling my other kids, I'm like, I just need to

buy a compound where you can all live. They're like, mom, even if you buy a compound, we're probably not going to come live with you. And I was just like, I can't believe you're breaking up with me. And I was so dramatic about it. And I just don't think, the only way I could describe it in my short mind was I told my son John, I said, John, for the last 18 years, every morning I wake up and kiss your little face. And when you go to bed every night, I'd kiss your little face. And my entire day is consumed with what's going on with the kids. Do I need to pick them up? Do I need to drop them off? Do I need to get them lunch? Do I need to check their medical records? Every thing, my entire day. And then all of a sudden, it's, we're out. Mm-hmm. He goes, mom, I'm not breaking up with you.

I go, I know. I'm just trying to help you understand why your mom is an emotional crazy mess right now. And I agree that there aren't enough conversations. And the ones that are out there, I remember friend giving me this book and it talked about how wonderful it was. I told her, I said, this book just made me mad. There's nothing in this book that relates to me because while I'm so happy for her, my world has just crumbled. And I think that we don't realize that these are things that we grieve. People think of grieving is only through death, but we grieve these things. And society doesn't give us permission. Oh, you should be happy for them or you should be because this is a happy thing. but it is a change in our world.

And it deserves to be grieved so that we can then work through that. And it happened to me when she got married. And I was very open with her and her husband. And they were just, I would just tell them honestly how I feel, this is hard for me. And it's not because I adore him. And it's, there wasn't anything about it that I did not want. It was just this change. And so there's, I think.

that it's something that you're right needs to have conversations around so many factors of our lives that change and we should be given permission to grieve those not a hole up somewhere and never go back out i'm not talking about that but just giving permission so that we can understand that we're not crazy we are just living life and life has changes and how that ties in somewhat to real estate is I think that people are dealing with it a lot even right now, right? We have a shifting market. Things are changing. It's not the way that it was.

And the first thing you will hear come out of almost every person's mouth that I know of usually is, I don't like change. Doesn't everybody say that? Oh, yeah, I don't like change. No, I don't want to change anything. Like we all have these set routines of how we function and move through life. but the one thing that is for sure 100% things are going to change something's going to change and right now with the market I would assume that some people are grieving the loss of how things were

I know we used to like you we had a large brokerage and when we closed the doors to that brokerage it was it was rough I definitely felt grief around that because I'd spent 22 years building this what I thought was my dream. And then to close the doors on that, I went through that and empty nesting at the same time. I was a hot mess. Oh, yeah. And it's true moving is when you read about the things that people grieve, moving is high on the list as far as losses go, because different examples are, even a first-time home buyer, well, maybe they've had roommates. Their life patterns are about to change. And obviously, people moving away from home. And then, and moving to a different location.

And while, yes, it can be upgrading to a growing family, it can be like you're saying, empty nest when you've raised your kids in this home and everywhere you look, you have memories of these things. For me, I think a lot of this translates to real estate into recognizing that it's not always a positive thing and just to be sensitive to people. That this is a choice they're making,

even if they're going to downsize or into, more retirement area, it's still a change and they are grieving this. So I think being sensitive to not just thinking, oh, you're getting to move and sell your house or buy a house, but to listen to your clients and know that this is a change for them. One of my favorite stories is a young couple that had adopted a baby. And it was their first house. And they were so excited. And it had been a process. And we were doing the final walkthrough and they're going through and talking about this. is going to be their little girl's room. And I just sensed this sadness a little bit. And so I ask a few questions and they said, we're so excited to get out of our rental. That's where we brought her home.

And that's where we have those memories. And I said to them, something that's been proven to be helpful is if you go to each room and you can take her and as your family and talk about, oh, remember when this happened in this room and remember and you just share that. And then you say goodbye to that room. And then you go to another room. And you do that so that when you leave, then you have shared those things. And then you can say goodbye to that home. And they just got tears.

They were just like, thank you for sharing that with us. Because now we feel like that we can go back and do those things with that home, remember those things, and then move forward into our new home. And I think it's just important to listen to people and recognize and let them know. It's okay. You're excited, but it's okay that you feel, have emotions toward leaving this place. I love that story because there's a story that I've told many times about how I'll never forget I had a listing appointment with this gentleman. And he was in his 80s. And I remember going to the appointment and he had been married for 50 years and his wife had passed away.

and they had lived in that home for 40 plus years. And now was the time when he needed to go live with his kids and he needed to sell his home. And two things happen. There's two sides to the story. As the real estate agent, you walk out with a listing agreement. You're like, woohoo, right? Like you're like, awesome. I cut a listing.

But on the other side of that wall is somebody who is trying to figure out how to say goodbye. I mean 40 plus years of memories and all that he had experienced and lived with his wife and raised his kids. And I think about it now to make me cry. I've lived in my house for 30 years. We bought this house before kids were born. And if we ever, if there ever comes a day, which I hope it's not while I'm alive, this homeward have to be sold. I don't even know what I would do. I would be a hot mess.

My kids were raised here. My son actually passed away here. My grandparents lived here. There's millions of memories. And it's funny because two years ago, we did a major remodel on our home. We got it to went down to studs and completely changed, moved things around everything. And the most interesting part is when my kids' friends come over and they're like, they don't recognize the house.

And they're upset by it. They're like, this doesn't look at all like I remembered. And they're like so upset that the house looks different in a positive way, but they're upset because of their memories are tied to. how the house looked. Yeah, I think it is just, you're right, I was in a home recently. Same thing. A man in his 80s and his wife had passed and having to leave that home. And I was talking to the other agent. And when I mentioned to him, I thought, this is what I'm thinking about when I'm walking through the home is I'm just seeing these things. And it was obvious they had traveled and done these things. And the agent looked at me surprised and said, I'm so glad that you recognize that too.

and I said, yeah, I think that we just have to, we have to look further into people's stories. And then I've talked to people when they've said, yeah, nobody ever told me that it was okay that I could be sad about it. But the behind the scenes story was that we had lost a job and we were having to move and we didn't want to move and all of those things. So there's certainly times to be happy and then also to be sensitive when it's not something that they would have chosen maybe. or the circumstances have just changed and just allow them that permission.

How has that helped you, honestly in both arenas, how has that helped you in dealing with the loss of your son, number one? And number two, how has that translated into how it's impacted you as a real estate agent and in the real estate industry as a whole? So it helps me to help other people. as far as the loss of Alex knowing that I have learned so much. And I want to share that with other people. I felt somewhat isolated. And it wasn't because I didn't have a wonderful support group and family and friends and all of that. I internalized a lot because I just didn't know how to handle things.

And I keep using that word permission because it was a big thing for me. and that's what I do. So I believe it helps me to know that I'm using what has happened to then not only help myself, but then to turn around and help other people that are grieving in whatever way, whether that, like we just talked about, whatever loss it is, to be able to help them. That, in turn, has made me a more compassionate person and which translates to real estate because I look at every person that I work with. They're a person first. Okay, they're not just a transaction.

They're not just an agreement on the buyer or the seller side. They're a person. And I, you know, love to teach my agents and I was privileged enough to teach my daughter and real estate. And I always say, if you keep it about the people, then the business and the money will come. Of course. And the thing is, I believe that. And I know you do too.

And I retell some of your stories. that I've heard you tell just because that this is a people business. And we say that, but when you really mean it, when you really are just there to listen to people and obviously use your experience and expertise to guide them through. I'm not negating any of that, but they know if you're compassionate about them as a person and what they're looking to do. And so that's how it's helped me in real estate. And then I'll just go to another aspect of just how it's helped in my day-to-day life. I study grief and I read about it and I'm always looking for where it ties in to people. So when you see people with erratic behavior,

I always think, I wonder what happened to them. What is going on in their life that's caused this? Or just even when I watch movies or things like that, I always try to relate it back to where this could come from. And I think it's just learning what makes people tick. And that just makes, I think humans are our greatest resource. We can have all the technology. We can have all the whatever. But they're the greatest resource. And it is just part of my life goal is just to meet people and learn what makes them tick and be compassionate in whatever is going on in their life. And what's interesting is that I learned this firsthand as well, is it everybody has a very different way of grieving, right? They have a very different way of how they grieve and how they

process. Like I have told the story when our son passed away. My husband, for him, he sat in front of a computer and he played solitaire and he didn't want to leave our younger children. He didn't want to be within five feet. He wanted to be not far from them at all times. Our kids were three and four when our older son passed away. For me, it was easier to go to work. And it was easy. easier to not deal with that and go to work and deal with whatever I was dealing with at work. And there were times, obviously, when we came together and we worked through our ways. Obviously, I spent a lot of time in therapy and dealt with a lot of it. But I think some of the best, the best thing I heard recently, too, about loss is you have to

celebrate the life they lived instead of the death they died. Absolutely. I say all the time. Yes. I didn't mean to interrupt you, but their life is so much bigger than the death. The death is just a fraction of anyone's life, but their life is so much bigger. And I think about all my son only lived to be 10 years old, but I got so much and so many people were impacted and affected by the life that this young child lived. And I know you've done some amazing things with your son's life

as well. And I guess I just want people to hear that, that I see people who get so consumed with their death and they're not here and they forget about the life that they lived and what they contributed. And I know we still have five children here on earth. And it's my job to help them live the very best lives that they can not stay focused on the one who's now in heaven. So I just think that there's so much value in people hearing that and hearing it from obviously two moms who've been through that. It doesn't negate their life at all. I don't believe it doesn't negate it. If anything, it impacts.

It shows what an impact they made. Even nobody can understand what you went through. But the reality is that there's such value in that experience and now, look what his life has become, what a legacy his life has become. So I just, I guess I just wanted, that wasn't a question. I guess it was more just a comment of how that can, that life can impact people in ways that they don't even know. And I've had the privilege of working with several grieving moms. And when I tell them, hey, you can celebrate his or her life. And I, what we were just talking about, it's almost like you see this relief come over them. Because

obviously, in the beginning when someone, when a child dies, then it is, you're just all consumed with the death. But when you say to them, but look at the life. You just see this come over them, this just feeling of, I don't have to just stay trapped in the death part. I can focus on the life part. And I've just seen that time and time again. And recently, a good friend of mine, they had lost their son. And she was telling me it was his birthday or something. And they're like Cindy said, we celebrate the life. And it was just, it's just so great when you're able to pass that on to other people, things that we've learned and be able to share it. And I think too, like somebody, it never becomes easier, I guess is the biggest thing. It never becomes easier.

You just get further and further between breakdowns. And we've learned, I barely remember the actual date my son died, but I do remember his birthday. His birthday's coming up on November 6th. And we always try to celebrate that day as a special day of a special human being. And I think there's almost, like you said, a stigma or an embarrassment of celebrating those things. it's almost, did you forget he died? No, I didn't forget he died. But, yeah, you know, there's how we're supposed to act or how it's supposed to look like. And I don't think that there's any specific way. Everybody grieves in a different way. And there's no right or wrong. There's no good or bad. It's just it is what it is. It's so true. And learning to respect how other people

grieve was a big learning curve for me. Because as humans, we want people to do things the way. We do it. Because that's what we know. That's what we're comfortable. with. So why don't we want them to do the same thing? And they don't, especially in grief. And I remember Ariel would listen to music that Alex listened to. And that brought her comfort. I couldn't do it. I could not do it. I would say, I cannot listen to that right now. And for me, it was pictures. I wanted to see pictures. Pictures bring me so much joy of his life. But then, you know, Steve couldn't look at pictures. for a long time. And so learning to respect, even though how people grieve, even though it's not the

same way that I do, has been a huge learning curve that I've also shared with other people that I was just trying to figure it out. But I think sharing that with other people is very beneficial to their journey and how they deal with it. Because the last thing you want is someone to feel like they can't grieve and internalize things. Because that's not a good thing and that's going to come out eventually. And like you said, some people, it doesn't make sense to us about how they grieve. One of my favorite stories, and I always told this to the parents at Camp Alex, and it's a story of plates. And after Alex died, Ariel and now we're in the kitchen, we're about to have dinner and getting things ready. And she said to me, Mom, can I tell you something that bothers me? I said, of course,

baby doll, what is it? She said, plates. I said, plates. She said, I do not. I do not. I do not like to have three matching plates. She said, I can handle two matching plates and I can handle if we have company over to have four, but I don't like to have three matching plates because it's just so obvious that he's missing. And I said, you know what? There's a lot of things in life that I cannot fix, but I can fix this. And I said, you don't have to ever worry about that. When it's the three of us, you and your dad can have matching plates and I'll eat on a plastic plate. I do not care, but we do not have to do that. And as simple as that is, plates never bothered me. That was not something that ever bothered me, but it was something that really bothered her. And just the fact

that she shared it with me and then we just changed it. And it's so simple, but yet it's just listening to each other and learning that things that don't affect me, may affect someone else and vice versa. Definitely what a legacy your son has left and what that has allowed you to share, because I can almost guarantee that someone is going to be impacted by this conversation today. I know that I am because I'm trying to keep from crying over here. I think that everyone has so many stories like that of things that you don't realize the little things and you don't even really realize the memories your children have.

of what has impacted and how they grieve. But what I can tell you is that you're an amazing human being. I'm so blessed to know you. And I just wish we were in the same time zone at some point. So we could share some time. But I just want to thank you so much for being here today and being so transparent and so open. You're an amazing human being. I love your daughter too, Ariel, and what you guys have done and created in memory of your son.

And for Steve as well, I think it's been a huge impact. and you can feel it around the world. So thank you. You're welcome. Thank you so much for having me. I like sharing my story and life. And you've been such an inspiration to me for so many years. And you're right. If we lived in the same times on Margaret, we'd probably drink a lot of wine and do a lot of time. We for sure would. Thank you again for joining us today. I'm super grateful for the time with you. You're so welcome, Margaret. Thank you. So thank you everybody for joining us on Real Estate Real World where we have the important conversations that impact our industry and those that are part of it.

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