KGCI: Real Estate on Air - Trans Day of Rememberance

Episode Date: June 20, 2024

Hi, everybody, and welcome to episode 13 of the culture cast. If you're joining us for the first time, this is EXP's official diversity, equity, and inclusion podcast. We're here on episode 13. We're coming really far with this. And today we're talking about a really important topic. We're talking about transgender day of remembrance. And joining me today is Robin Mann, celebrated agent, everybody's favorite. Robin, welcome. Thank you. I'm so happy to be here. Yeah. Do you want to get people a little bit of your background?

Sure. I have been in the business, eight and a half years, been with EXP. It'll be four on January 1st. Four-time icon. And I do, I've sold a home a week every week since 2016. That's like my big. Yeah. I've got 60 people in my organization. And yeah, I've got two wonderful kids and a husband and what I got? Two dogs, four cats, five chickens and a duck. and a duck and a duck oh my gosh I love ducks

you know people ask that question you know what animal would you be if you could be an animal I think duck is the obvious answer right that is being up and they walk and they fly who else you mean ducks are always always been my answer but I would be a male rock

because female ducks like they get destroyed it's a horrible thing yeah the duck mating season we can delete that out if you want but like I love ducks. Yeah, I mean, they're so, you know,

versatile and also they quack, which is adorable, so it's cute. Exactly. So we're here talking about trans day of remembrance. Let's shed some light on the significance of trans day of remembrance and tell people why it's crucial to commemorate this day in the sort of broader context of the struggle of the LGBTQ plus community. Why are we talking about this, Rob? Yeah, first, I'm honored to be asked.

And I'm no way an expert in trans. I'm an ally and I have trans friends and family. I think the important of this day is that that we don't know about it. And that it's one of the largest populations that I know of. Like I know there are global. But it is a very large population where hate crimes happen and hate, not even just hate crimes, but hate murders happen and they aren't reported and they aren't recognized and there's a lot of shame for the families and there's a lot of shame around it and my overlying story of it all is that

that's someone's baby that's someone's child and they deserve to be seen and they deserve to be recognized so I think it's important to put it out there I did just a little research looking at stories and there's just hundreds of heart-wrenching stories of these people just living their lives and they are killed because they because of hate. Yeah, that's true. And it's, you know, what we see is this sort of trans panic defense, which is sort of like the gay panic defense of the 80s and 90s, if anybody remembers that that's listening. But this sort of, I didn't know this person was trans.

and when I found out my reaction was to violently attack them. Right. That's a, it's just a scary reality in our legal system today that people are using this defense quite a lot. It's horrible. Like, then just walk away. You don't have to kill them, just walk away. That's a very simple thing. You were told to do as a kid, walk away.

Yeah, yeah. And then, you know, I think, uh, now. navigating your life as a trans person is difficult. With the, in context of the broader, broader LGBTQ community and the issues that we face currently is, you know, we see a lot of existence being politicized. Which is a wild thing to politicize someone's existence, right? Someone is, you know, existing, living their life to their fullest, living their best life. And, you know, you think it's inappropriate because someone who you hold in high regard thinks that way. Right.

I would, you know, ask anybody watching this who has, you know, negative thoughts or views about the trans community based on what they've seen on the news and what they've seen on TV or what they've heard on the radio. to just listen into this episode and challenge that a little bit. I'd also encourage you. EXP offers a really robust crony Collins training that I teach. If you're interested in that, you can reach out to us at DEI at EXPrealty.net. We've got the information we're joining the DEI team down there. Just say, hey, me and my team could use it or I could use it, and we can help you learn more about it. What we find more often than not when it comes to the topic of the transgender community is that people don't make the attempt to learn more about it because they were afraid of what if they say the wrong thing.

Right. And we break down in that training how easy that misconception is to barrel through. Because often if you say the wrong thing, you apologize and move on. And it's great. That's it. That's it. That's all doesn't move on. That's all right.

three. I think the remembrance part is significant. Like, yeah. As a mom, I would love to know that my child is remembered and that they are honored in some ways. So I don't know. I think it's it offers a little bit of love to the families who have lost. And only because like the only because their kid was was not normal.

None of us are normal. I'm not normal, you know, like none of us are normal. So why are we killing folks? Yeah. I mean, it's another piece of this as well that it's not just violence against the trans community, but it's also suicide rights. Transgender, transgender individuals are eight times more likely than cisgender individuals who have attempted suicide before age 30, which is a really staggering stat

eight times more likely. Well, and on that, like when, so. our son came out and as gay and when he came out I called the suicide prevention hotline like me personally as a mom not because I was thinking of I was going to commit suicided but I wanted to help him and so like that's a resource for everyone like they applauded me for calling they were like I was like I'm not suicidal but I want my son to not be what can I do to help them and they walked me through it and we we you know did some steps together and you know you can call back like it's not just if you are thinking about suicide if you want to understand how to help your child or your loved one come to grips with with coming out as who they are as a true person that I think there are resources that you can that you can call that you may not even think of you know I call them immediately I'm not but I want help so yeah right and now you know the beautiful thing about that is now that's available I preach this all the time because people don't know it and it wasn't advertised well but now the national suicide prevention hotline is also the mental health health health health health crisis hotline for the US. And it is available with a three-digit number, 988. And you can dial it from anywhere, you can dial 911.

So even when you're in scary dead zones with your phone, right, you can dial emergency numbers including that one. That's cool. I didn't know that. That's very cool. So 988 is there if you or someone else's experience in mental health crisis. And, you know, for transgender individuals, if you know someone who's trans, it needs a resource,

there are a lot of those available to. and I'm happy to help you find those resources if you have a question about those. But just off the top of my head, some of those would be that one, 988. Or there's also the Trevor Project, which has a great round-the-clock 24-7 support chat as well as text if you don't want to speak. And then, you know, there is also the Born This Way Foundation, which is a fantastic organization started by Lady Gaga. Oh, that's cool. Yeah, that is really good. good and does a lot of charitable work and helps a lot of local organizations, LGBTQ organizations,

help stand themselves up. Yeah, so all those are great. So talk to me a little bit about personal experiences you've had with folks from the trans community. I have a feeling you've got some stories you'd like to tell. I do. So this one actually happened this weekend, and it was fascinating to watch my reaction to it and to watch their reaction to it. So I was at this local, actually we were there because it's a local restaurant.

They're phenomenal. They do drag breakfast and they get protesters all the time. And so we were there celebrating their anniversary and trying to love on the protesters. So this person's in line in front of me at the checkout with another woman. and two kids. And I was like, gosh, I feel like I know them. But I couldn't, it didn't register in my brain as to who this person was because it's a woman. And the person I was thinking I was a man, like born a man.

And I was just like, man. And I couldn't see the wife's face. So I kind of lean in and I noticed that she notices that I'm leaning in to see who she is. And I was like, I think I know you. and she said, yes, you sold us a house. And then the wife turned around. And I was like, oh, my gosh. And I was like, I was at a loss for words because I didn't want to insult.

And I didn't want to be like, oh, my God, you look great. You know, in a bad way. I wanted to be accepting and affirming and loving. And so I literally sat there kind of in this awkward pause. Like, what do I say? And I was like, oh, yes, wow. And so then I started talking about the kids and how, you know, they'd grown and they looked, they looked like they were great.

And the wife and I spoke. And then the, I guess the wife, it would, she would be called a wife now. The wife and I, the other wife and I spoke who, who I knew was a man. And she introduced herself. And I was like, oh my gosh, that's a phenomenal name. I see that that, like, that really fits, fits to you. And it was so hard for me. and then I sat back and I thought, okay, wow, that was not hard for me.

That was way hard for her and for her family. Like they are out in public as a family. And to me and my husband and our two kids, that's, we breathe. That's what we do. That family, that is monumental for her to come out dressed as she feels as a human in public with her wife and with her kids. I mean, like, I wanted to cry, like how phenomenal it was. And then to think, like, you could see in her body language, you know, she was, she was slumped over and not, not living her best self.

You know, it was like she could see she was still hiding. And so later, I saw them again. And I was like, you look phenomenal. And we, you know, we chat a little bit, we hugged a little bit. It was really eye-opening in relation to even this conversation that like, you just never know. Yeah, you really don't. And I think, you know, a couple of things from that story that stick out to me is if you, of all people were, you know, taken aback and had that sort of awkward pause, you know,

what would someone who who doesn't know and care and come with that light feel like? You know what I mean? Right. So I think, you know, it's, it goes to show you that even to those of us that really do care, um, sometimes it gives us pause, right? And that's okay. Right. And I think the beautiful thing about that story is how you recognized what,

what she was going through, right? Yeah. And I think that the dysphoria that comes along, gender dysphoria for those that don't know what that is, gender dysphoria is when your self-image doesn't match up to the way that you're perceived by others or what may come looking back at you in the mirror, that comes alive a lot for transgender people. That's the medical diagnosis is gender dysphoria, right?

That's the number one reason, the prognosis that folks are allowed to medically transition is because of dysphoria as such a negative mental thing. Right. But that dysphoria comes bubbling back up when someone who only knew you as your former self, right? Right. Yes. And I was so cautious to not say the other name. I was like the dead name. I was just like,

And what I wanted to do was like, oh my gosh, you're trans and like hug her and be like, you look phenomenal. Oh my gosh. But then I was like, well, I don't want like, I don't know how come. You draw attention. Right. Right. Right. It's just backed off.

It was very enlightening. And I mean, I have, I have another friend who's a huge advocate and very heavily involved in LGBTIA diversity down in Charleston. And they did their transition from female born to, to, to, you know, to. male, I don't know the appropriate terms, but, and videotaped it. And I got to watch that journey. Videotape the emotional process and the not necessarily the surgeries and such. But, and they are phenomenal. And I actually spoke to them about this. I was like, tell me what to say that would be helpful. And, and they were wonderful. Like they, you know, he is, he is married. He has two kids now. And he's, he's happy. And he looks happy in his heart, in his soul. And his big,

words were that, you know, just that they, they deserve to be remembered. They deserve to be seen as valuable in this world. And I believe that. The, you know, for the Transgender Day of remembrance, they deserve to be valued. And I just, God, it pains me. Like, I read all the stories and I was, like, I couldn't even read them because I'm a very, what's the word, empath. I'm a very empathetic person. So, like, reading the stories, just soul crushing, the the pain that these people go through just being themselves and then to have their life taken away because they were just being themselves right i mean and you know unfortunately we live in a in a world where where i didn't you know we talked about this before where identities are

being politicized and it's it's one of those things that going outside being your authentic self is is is is tough and you know i want to make a brief programming note to anybody that's watching this and thinking why do we have two cisgender people on this day of remembrance talking about trans issues and you know expe we're a very very diverse company we're a very inclusive company me and my team do everything we can to make sure that we are on the cutting edge of diversity equity and inclusion and our pride network is great and it's beautiful and it's robust and I would encourage everyone to join that conversation and learn more, even if you're not part of the community, but our allies have a greatly magnified voice in the Pride Network and the opportunity to learn

from the stories of those who've been through what we've been through. All of this is to say that over the course of the past year, we've reached out a lot to our EXP community at large in a bunch of different forums and a bunch of different ways in many different circles to try and find those transgender voices that want to stand up and be amplified. And right now, I think it has a lot to do with the political climate and it has a lot to do with people getting through the struggles of their day-to-day life and not needing to add more stress. But we still have not found someone who would be willing to be on podcast like this or would be willing to speak about trans, someone who is trans to speak about trans stuff on various events and panels. And I think that speaks

volumes at a company with 89,000 real estate agents being as diverse and inclusive as we are, that still there's that fear or hesitation to step forward, even here. Right. Right. It's a, Yeah, because you're worried. And like I have the privilege of I might get harassed about it, you know, I might lose business because of it. I'm not living it. And so I can put it away. I don't choose to. Like I want to advocate and ally, be an ally for transgender.

But those who are, like, they don't get to put it away. And they're walking that and carrying that every day. So I totally get that it'd be hard to find someone because they would. be a target potentially. And this day of remembrance is proof that they shouldn't be a target. Right. I mean, that's the, you know, the key is that this isn't just trans day of celebration and recognizing the pride and joy of the trans community. This is a somber day of remembrance of lives lost and lives negatively impacted by societal views that don't really have any place in society. That's that's it. So,

When we're talking about these stories, why is it important for us to amplify the voices of our trans folks in our community? So I thought of a story, I thought of an analogy, and I hope this is an appropriate place to share the thought. Because I wanted to get, I really hope people who aren't trans and who aren't part of the Pride Network, who that are just the general public. look at large, would listen to this story and maybe think differently about any polarized category, but especially on this day, we'll target in towards trans. So Rudolph the red nose reindeer, a horrible story, right? Rudolph is this beautiful little reindeer that's born, and he is perfect. And his mom and dad love him.

He's perfect. They love him so much. And then all of a sudden, his nose lights up. And the dad is a complete jerk. He takes some cold and covers up his nose. and sins about to play. So he, Rudolph does great with his little friends while he's covered up,

much like the trans people of the world. They do okay when they're covered up. When they are not the true selves, they're out there doing it. They're out there, you know, taking the girlfriend to prom when they really want to be with the guy or whatever. Like they're doing, they're putting on the dress when they don't want to.

All the things. I don't, I can't name those things because I don't live them. I can only guess. the uncomfortableness of those, those thoughts. So then all of a sudden, Rudolph's nose falls off and everyone sees who he is for real. And they start bullying him and they pick on him.

And even Santa is mean to him. And Rudolph runs away. Now, the part of the story that sucks is they only see his value when he's abused to them. The part that helps, I think, is that they, that he was that same way, along he always was of value it was their skewed perceptions and biases and um awfulness that made him not be a value it had nothing to do with rudolph right he came out and was his true self he was of

value period when he was that little boy the little rudolph that that ran away he was a value and when santa finally saw it he was a value so why i think that's important is is that every single person is of value. And that's what the transgender day of remembrance is in my brain. These people are of value. They're someone's child. And I'm a believer in whatever thing you're a believer in, if you are a believer in a higher power,

that was someone's baby. That was someone's, in my words, I say, that's a child of God. And God doesn't screw up. God doesn't make mistakes. I don't know if we're allowed to say that on this thing. But I don't care if Hindu or Baptist or it was like, or whatever, you know, you're created beautifully and perfectly just exactly the way you are.

And for people that take away lives for that is it's heartbreaking and horrifying. And so if we can bring light to it and say, we can look at everybody like a valuable Rudolph, like from the second they're born, they're valuable. And maybe they need to change like they, you know, to make their body the gender dysmorphia thing. But I don't know. It just made me that story I never liked because I didn't like that he got bullied and I didn't like that Santa was mean to him. I just spent time with it. I don't know why it related to me and transgender. But I think why it did was that what this point of that story is that he had value all along.

Yeah. It's true. It's true. And, you know, there's a there. There's a lot there that speaks not just to the trans community, but for folks that are different. Right. And I think, you know, part of our message at the DEI team and one of our. of the messages of the concept of diversity, equity, inclusion, is that that difference is what

makes him special. Right. And it's not something that should be hidden. It's something that should be celebrated. Yes. You know, not to, again, we're tying back to a lot of Bible studies, but that's the way I grew up, right? It's that don't hide your light under a bushel piece.

Right. Yeah. That it took me a really long time to be able to. be my professional self and also really unabashedly myself as well. You can be both of those things at the same time. Yeah. Because I'm, I am a corporate voice of EXP Realty. I'm also real gay.

And anybody that has a conversation with me knows I don't, I don't have anything to add to the conversation about sports. I can talk to you about Rubol's Drag Race 2 with the face. You know, and that's just who I am. And I bring that, I bring that to work. And it is, it helps me. It does, it does help me. And I think it's important, you know, also to note, there's a piece in that, in that

Rudolph's story that, that stuck out to me about when he's covering up his nose, right, to appear. So that's something that we do in the transgender community that's called passing, right? Right. And if you can pass or can't pass is not something everybody has the capability to do. There are a lot of individuals who, when they finally are happy with what they look like in the mirror, the world can still see that's a trans person, like a neon sign. And there's nothing they can do about it. That's biology.

Right. Right. And that makes it so these people aren't even capable of putting on the disguise. Right. You know what I mean? Which just adds another wrinkle to this transgender conversation that's different than other things. For me, if I want to pass this straight, there's not anything I have to do about physically. Right.

Right. It's just about personality and tone and blah, you know, there's a lot of stuff you can do to make yourself sound. pass right right all i got to say is my wife you know and then you know somebody will believe i'm straight right but if i were to put on a wig and a dress and go out people would immediately be like that's a man in the dress right right the big the big different struggle that they have it is and it's it's it's i'm really proud like i'm going to text that client that i ran into you today and just you know send some love and some affirmation because it is and it's um it's it's it's i'm really proud like i'm going to text that client that i'm because it is a, yeah, they can't, they can't just be who they are.

And that's awful. Like, and I know that the gay population, LGBTQ or LGBT, LGBT, LGBT, that whole population, struggles with that as well. And being trans does take it to the next level. And then being a person of color that's trans, yeah, whole different ballgame. Because I feel like that, I feel like that's probably the highest population of these, these murders is. Oh, it is by a long shot.

Yeah. I mean, we talk about these crazy murder and violence rates for trans people. Those numbers are exponential for people of color, particularly black trans women. Get it very, very badly. It's that point of intersectionality where, you know, for those that haven't heard my intersectionality feel the term intersectionality. originality comes from the intersection and the way that our different varying points of identity can can collate to either empower us further or make it more of a struggle for us.

And it comes from an original study that was done where a Hispanic woman in the workplace was like, why am I making so much less than a white man? And they looked at her and they said, well, Hispanic people make this much to a dollar, right? They said Hispanic people, I think, I don't remember the exact numbers, but Hispanic people make 80 cents to the dollar compared to a white person. But then a woman makes 85 cents of the dollar compared to a man. But if you're both, if you're a Hispanic woman, you're making 40 cents to the dollar. Right.

So neither of those stats really apply to you. No. Right. And you can't just, oh, multiply math. No, you specifically have to look at a targeted population. And the targeted population here really is black trans women are a on a very bad looking chart, a very, very low point. And that's not even, that's just the reported ones. That's just the reported ones. Exactly.

Right. Which is initially just unbelievably large, the unreported ones because because there is the shame that their loved one. and they're like, they're not going to put it out there. They're not going to report it. They're going to just, oh, it was just a drive by or it's just a domestic abuse. So those are, we don't even get to, we don't even see the true numbers in relation to. We don't. And honestly, most of the numbers that we see about trend stuff are also US-based.

And as being a global organization, it would, it would, we'd be doing a disservice, not to mention the fact that the United States is not the worst place on the world. live for transgender people, not by a long shot. Right. There are much, much worse places. And believe me, this is everywhere. This isn't just something that only exists where modern American media is blasting to people. That's how people turn to trans because they saw it on TV. That's not real.

Trans people exist everywhere. And honestly, there is a bit of... My wife was trans, and I didn't even know it. you know, I didn't, I had no clue. Yeah. And there, there is a piece of the trans experience that ties back to ancient cultures and indigenous cultures, particularly in North America and particularly in Australia, where there are, you know, people of honor. There's a term called Two-Spirit, which is different than transgender.

But Two-Spirit is essentially when someone, the thought was they're born with the, essence of a man and a woman inside of them so that they can see both sides of the coin. Those people were often shamans or people of major note in those societies. And it's something that colonial erasure has sort of gotten rid of. But this is me saying that transgender people have existed for a very long time. Right. Yes. Very long time.

Very long time. Yeah. So the transgender community faces so much adversity today. We've talked about a little bit of this with discrimination and violence. And there's also this aspect of lack of access to health care. But how do we as allies move the needle towards a more equitable and just society for all the gender identities? what can we do? It feels like there's so much and then there's also, it seems like there's so little.

I think voting, obviously, for political candidates that support it is a ginormous choice. But even before that, I think the core of it is taking a minute to understand. Like, what if your child or your sister or your mother or your brother or your dad came to you and said, day I'm trans in processing that. So I did youth ministry for 13 years and I remember it was when scruples came out the game scruples. I was playing I had these two teens we were playing the game the game of scruples and the question I put to them was what if I told you I was gay and these were like like pretty rural it was Clarksville Tennessee. It was not a big city and they both like one of them started crying she's like what do you mean what if you're

gay and i was like well what how does that change anything like what if i am and um then we sat and processed that together so i think maybe that's something we can do as allies is is to ask that question you know you you love me you love me you like me right so what if i told you i was trans and and and play that role play that with people because It shouldn't change. If you love them, it shouldn't change. You might have to process it. Just like when our son came out, it wasn't, I didn't love him.

It was that I was afraid of the world attacking him. It had nothing to do with me and my love for him. It had to do with, okay, wow, how do we process this? And so, you know, same thing. If, you know, Wally came to me all of a sudden, my husband and said, hey, I'm trans. All right. Well, I love Wally. Like, how do we do this?

You know, so I think. having the courage to even just grapple with that basic question. Maybe it's too big. Maybe that's too nebulous. But maybe it's not. Maybe that's really what people need to do. Right. And I think, you know, for me, societal change comes from society.

So it's a matter of having those conversations with the people who you love and trust about this is very, very important. And by no means am I going to say, you know, yes, it's important to vote for folks that support trans-positive legislation. But it's just as important to communicate to the folks who you would want to vote for for other reasons, right? Right. Why this is important. And I think it has to do with the value of a person. goes back to your Rudolph story about we're all intrinsically born valuable right right um and i think it's it's very very important to to note to folks that people's self-identity regardless of how

crazy it is if someone believes this is who i am that is worthy of respect yes and it's not our say to judge it. Yes. It's not our place. It's not, you know, you don't have any, any right to say, no, you're not allowed to feel that. Right. Right.

We're just here to love. We're just here to love. Human kind. Be both. Like, that's my favorite quote. Human kind. Be human. Be human.

Like, that's the, that's the bottom line. Just go be human. Be kind. Like, just love on people, you know? Yeah. And, and if you've got, you know, a view. about the transgender community where you feel, I could get on board, but this is what's hanging me up.

I would encourage you to reach out to me, reach out to somebody in the Pride Network. Let's talk through those, because those kind of biases, and I don't, it's tough to say the word out loud that, oh my God, you're trying to say, I hold a bias. Those negative views of trans folks, they are biases. And they are easily broken down.

They can be broken down, whether it's bathroom stuff or sports stuff or any of the other stuff that has been politicized recently. That's really, really easy to break down. Yeah. And it's part of your life. We went to a college, our daughter and I, we went to a college tour. And she wanted to know if they had gender neutral bathrooms. And it's a college very close to here. I'm in Charlotte, North Carolina.

It's one of the outskirts. And the little, the tour guide said, oh, yeah, we don't, we don't have, we don't have that year. Meaning they didn't have people who need to go to a gender neutral bathroom here on that campus. That campus had like 5,000 people. I'm like, oh, you. Yeah, you just honoring it and seeing it and respecting it. And so, you know, that was an immediate no for my girl. She was like, nope, nope, we're not going there.

I need the, I mean, she just wanted that. She doesn't even need a gender neutral bathroom, but she wanted it for, that told her about the culture of the school. They can't even have a bathroom. Okay. I don't want to go. Yeah, right. I mean, it's, it's, yeah, the gender, the gender neutral bathroom conversation is a, is a, it's an odd debate to get into with a trans person, to be honest with you. Because the gender neutral bathroom sort of implies that the trans person needs someone somewhere separate to be safe.

when we could just allow them to feel safe in the bathroom that they identify with. Yes. I love that. Yes. There's a lot of overblown stuff in the news about how, you know, a trans woman would be going after your daughter in the bathroom. There are no news stories that are credible that that has ever happened. Ever. It's just like this projected thing.

it's so bizarre because it's bizarre it's it's the it's the proverbial razor blade in the candy at Halloween right there's it's it's an old wives tale that has not ever really happened there's no proof that that has ever happened of a transgender person or a person posing as transgender in order to use the restroom in a way that leaves that leads to sexual assault is a real leap if you break it down. Yes. Right. Stretch Armstrong.

We're stretching on that one. Yeah. It's very stretchy. It's very stretchy. I mean, there are times often, and this is me sharing personal experience, there are times as a gay man in a men's restroom where I feel vulnerable.

Right. I would think so. Yeah. Right. It crosses my mind. And it's, it shouldn't. It's silly,

but it crosses your mind. I'm gay in here. If somebody knew I was gay in here, I could be attacked. Exactly. Right. Because it's different. It's a private space, you know? Yes.

Yeah. For our sons, the year he had to dress out for Jim, I went to the school. I was like, I need to go if there's an adult in the locker room. And they were like, no. I was like, okay, well, I need an adult in the locker room. I was like, because bad things happened in locker rooms. And my boy has come out and I need somebody standing. I was like, I don't care.

your backs in the door to the locker room. You're not allowed to see things, but I need you to be within ear of everything. And they honored it. And they, and for that quarter, when my son was in the locker room, they, you know, they honored him. Now, yes, was I Karen helicopter mom? Hell yeah, I was, because that's my baby. Yeah, maybe I mean, my experience growing up in South Georgia and not being fully out of the closet except friends, right? I, when it came to changing out at gym, it was the thing where I had to wear another set of clothes under my clothes if I knew I had gym.

I could take off my clothes and be in my gym clothes underneath, and then after I put my clothes back on in Georgia, you know, is a spot. But that's how I got through it, and that's not, it's not great. It's not a great way to live. No. And then it becomes, you know, how, are of oh, you know, what, why are you doing this differently? You're hiding something, right? Right. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, no one should live that way. That makes my heart sad. Like,

you should just be able to be you and just, you know, as long as you're not hurting others, which they aren't or you aren't or we are not, you know, just go be you. Go be humankind. Just go, we both. Go do that. You know, like it just hurts my heart. So. Yeah. Well, You know, this has been a great conversation. Anything else you want to add before we wrap this up? I would say the thing about the Pride Network, which I know that's not what this calls about, but the Pride Network,

if you are not part of it and you are an ally or you have interest in just learning. That's why I'm there. I want to learn. I want to know what people are going to. I'm also a member of the Black EXP Network. Yeah, same. Not a warmer color here.

Right, right, right. But there's something that you can learn from all of our different communities and they're all welcome in that way. You come to me all the time and say, why are you segregating people into these one EXP groups? These groups aren't segregated.

No. Not even a little bit. This is an opportunity for you to go and learn from black folks and queer folks and Middle Eastern folks and young folks and seniors and any demographic you want to learn from or want to be able to sell better.

two. Yes. Right. There it is. Right. These are learning tools. These are community tools. These are ways to grow your circle. And unfortunately, we live in an age where there's a lot of confirmation bias, where my friends all think like me and they are my friends because they think like me. Right. It's so important to put people in your circle that think differently and come from different backgrounds than you. Oh, yeah. It is. I have a couple of... It's your mind. Well, and I have people that are very different from me in my circle. And we have beautiful, real conversations where I do think it makes the difference.

We do make a difference. Like, I do, okay, don't agree, but I can see that, you know, and vice versa. On the full spectrum of that, like, I feel like all of us just need to just, we have, what, one mouth and two ears? Like, listen, just go listen to each other. Yeah. But and then for the day of, of remembrance, I do think like, it'd be really nice if people just, even if you don't understand anything about it or you don't really get it, like, even just to pause, even just to read the words that today's the day of transgender remembrance. Like, if you took a second and just found one of the stories, I think your heart can be changed because the stories are real. and it's something we need to be made aware of that's happening so that we can help it to stop.

Yeah. Right. And I, you know, I would encourage you when you're looking at those stories, just go to Google and search transviolence 2023. Read one of those stories. Not one of those stories. You will never find one where the transgender person did something wrong to deserve what happened. to them. Right. Exactly. Right. And that is a big mind changer. Yes. And, you know, we come at this as a, from a point where every person has value, right? So just because you may hold a different

political leaning that doesn't always align with transgender doesn't mean you don't, you can think for yourself on any number of topics. And I would issue a personal plea that you go and rethink these things that are political stances about human beings. Right. Yes. That's really, really important. That's not me asking you to change your party. That's me asking you to hold a different view about human beings.

Yes. And not just go with the party line that these people are evil. These people are trying to take something from your kids. These people, it's just not true. And these people hold value just like you. you just like you do. They deserve health care. They deserve health care.

For sure, they do. They deserve homes to them. Yeah. It's true. Yeah. Yep. All right, Robin, thank you very much for joining me. This is kind of a heavy episode, but I'm sure we'll have you back in the future.

I will come back anytime you wish. And it was a heavy episode, but I feel honored to have been asked because it was, I did do a little searching about it and thinking about it. And hopefully some of them will watch and go, oh, well that makes sense and maybe it'll change even if it changes one person's brain then it's phenomenal that I got to be part of it so thank you yeah and you know me and robin are both very open people so if you've got questions and comments about this topic and want to just talk it out um bring it on I love it yeah I love it too all right everybody thank you for tuning into culture cast be sure to join us next time

again this is the biweekly podcast about what makes us us And thank you very much for joining us. Thank you.