KGCI: Real Estate on Air - Zero-Cost Customer Acquisition Systems for Scaling Real Estate Production

Episode Date: October 22, 2026

Summary:Top producer Jay Kinder joins host Kathy Byrnes to break down predictable lead generation models and customer acquisition strategies. Kinder discusses how agents can generate high-volume buyer and seller conversations without overspending on third-party lead portals. He explains the mechanics of converting digital leads into signed appointments using automated CRM workflows, targeted messaging, and structured follow-up sequences. Real estate professionals gain actionable insights on leveraging co-sponsorship models, building long-term residual income, and creating scalable business operations that drive consistent deal flow.

When I was selling 500 homes a year, I was the most miserable I'd ever been, and I was also the less free I'd ever been. I was working longer hours, evenings, weekends. It didn't get me freedom. And I was like, I spent 10 years climbing this ladder to realize this didn't get me there. Hey, everybody, it's Kathy Burns here with Real Estate Riches. And today my guest is Jay Kinder, who I'm really excited to have on. Hey, Jay. Hello, hello. How are you doing today? Wonderful. So Jay has an impressive background here with number two in the world at Coldwell Bank. for years, then started his own national coaching business with your partner, Michael Reese, and really successful at that. And then came to EXP, once you saw this whole platform, it changed everything. And now you're taking it even further with this whole add or lead program that you've got that I'm a part of, loving it. People in my whole organization are loving

it. So let's talk about it, Jay. Give us a little background. Yeah, so it's kind of, you know, it's interesting, you know, my whole career, I feel like when you get into real estate, they should just give you a plaque that says figure it out because there's really no plan. There's nobody you really helping you. There's all of these things that, you know, random things that people, I feel like you're just like randomly nailing boards together and trying to build a house. And, and so I, you know, I paid every, there wasn't anybody that didn't get my money. You know, I think, you know, you go through that, go through the seasons of, okay, I've got to figure out how to get customers. And, you know, If you've been doing it a while, you know, generally the agents I talk to, it's like, you know, I've got a sphere of influence. I've got some repeat referral, but it's not consistent enough. It's not really predictable. There's not really a lever that you can kind of hit and make more of it happen. And so at some point, you're trying to solve how do I generate, how do I get customers? It's not just leads.

It's how do I get into conversations with people that are actually wanting to move motivated buyers and sellers. consistently enough to increase my production and add, you know, one, two, three deals a month. And there's, you know, then the vultures come out. You know, that's your, your zillows and realtor.coms. And then anybody who tries to solve that problem for you knows that you're making 10, 15, sometimes $20,000 a deal. And so they want to take as much of that as they can get if they solve that problem. And arguably it's worth it. If the cost to acquire a customer is zero on the front end and you can close a deal, you get paid it's better than nothing but i feel like most agents never are you know that you try to learn it if you ever log into your facebook ad manager and and try to figure all this stuff out it's

generally speaking for agents that are good i think it's not what we're good at that stuff is not what we enjoy it's not and you're not in a flow state i remember trying to just trying to create a youtube banner for my youtube took me way longer than it should i could never get my head below the i mean like what are we doing and today with the eye some of these things are a lot easier to do but it's not where you make money in real estate where you make money in real estate is when you're with clients and you really the the my philosophy has always been if we can increase conversations per day with people who want to buy and sell and are open to doing business with you that's where you sell more real estate and so i've just

been on a journey in my lifetime of figuring that out for myself until i was successful and then figuring out how to help other people do that and now i get to do that and help agents and i don't have to charge of anything because of the platform model VXP. And that's, that's unique. And, you know, anybody that here's kind of like, wait, what? Now, explain to how you do that. Well, I get paid through revenue share so you don't have to pay me. I don't need your money. I'm never, you know, I'm only successful if I help you win. So we're in alignment. I want to see you close deals, but I'm not taking a piece of action. And that's, you know, that's a pretty, pretty cool thing to be able to do. For me, it's fulfilling. I get to help people and not have to, you know,

they don't have to get their wallets out. And I built a whole team, world class. team doing the things that I can't do. You know, so it's not like I could go in here and build all this stuff myself. I've always had the right people around me. And so we got a world class, I call it like an Olympic gold medalist team of experts that help execute a system that's your system,

not someone that can change the rules on you like Zillow or some of these other tools out there. And I think that's what agents need. And that's what we're able to provide. And so yeah, that's been a really a lifelong project. I would say what when the coast sponsorship opened up with EXP, I had pluses and minuses in my mind of how I felt about that because of the gaps in some of the pay structure on it. But when I heard that you were going to be

the co-sponsor and that we could be the sponsors, I loved it. And when one of my gals, Lindy Sandoval, Lindsay Sandoval said she had somebody that she was going to bring on and he needed help with leads. I said, you've got to check out J. Kinder. I said, because that is, and when I say coming on board to EXP, so she brought him on board to EXP and he was going to get all this training with you. And this was newer. You were kind of working some of the stuff out in the beginning. So when I heard about it and told her, you know, how is this going? She goes, well, we got to get it kick started. And I said, okay, well, let's get on the webinar, which are Thursdays and in-depth webinar, which is really important. And then she just, she took

off with it, he took off with it, she just keeps getting on that web on the webinar and just saying, man, I'm just closing deal after deal after deal. So that's my personal experience with it. Right. She's in my organization. I get residual income when she succeeds until she caps and then it starts all again next year. And so it's a marvelous setup that is, it's proven that it's working. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot. I mean, it's one of those things. I didn't have to do this. So I didn't have to do it. And in fact, I was scared to do it because I've done this before and I had 55 employees and it was a very heavy lift to be able to deliver on this type of a promise.

AI has only made it better. It has only made it easier to execute. So things, you know, timing was really right for us to be able to do this, but it's my name on the line. So like I don't want anybody to come through this and go, oh, that didn't work for me. And so that requires more than just an offer. It requires delivering on an offer. And that's and I find there's plenty of people selling stuff out there.

you know, new companies every day, you know, that are, you know, making all these promises. And I think most agents probably are a little gun shy because they've tried this thing and that thing. And, you know, it wasn't what it was supposed to be. And, you know, that's part of the figuring it out is I tried this. And hey, this one's pretty good. And so just, you know, the, you know, the typical agent has probably spent money on things that didn't work. And so I didn't want to do anything that was going to jeopardize my reputation in this business. And so we had to, you know, be able to not just get, get you leave. We had to make sure you knew what to do with these leads knew how to use the system Basically I say we're gonna build you a Ferrari and we're gonna show you like hey don't hit traction control and spin out

You know like use here's what here's all you need to know to be able to convert these leads and and yeah that's been You know that that's why we see the results and we hear so many people saying yeah this is absolutely crushing for me because if we generate and on average we can generate a hundred leads for a three hundred dollar ad spin and you talk to 30 people Even an average or a new agent's probably going to set five to seven appointments out of that, and they're probably going to sell one to two houses. So when you look at the math, that, you know, this is customer acquisition cost. It's under $300, $150 to acquire a $10,000 or $12,000 commission is, you know, you'd trade that all day long.

And so most agents just don't have the, you know, the skill set or put in their 10,000 hours to build a system that works. And it's honestly not what they're good at. So, so yeah, just, you know, having, having. that is and obviously it's a really good recruiting offer right it's a great recruiting offer right here's the other piece it isn't like you just saying here's these are three dollar leads you're teaching these agents what to say how to say how to follow right the AI component is incredible of how it narrows down the who the target market is actually going to be in your area that's awesome but also even the responder within the CRM all those pieces but it's your team doing the

training, the branding, the coaching, the reevaluating the ads. Yeah. It's mind blowing. Yeah, it's a, I mean, I used to do this before I was at EXP, which it always makes me think, man, I should have done this a long time ago. But before I was at EXP, we did this. We came in, we'd partner with an agent. They would join our brokerage. They would pay us $7,500 to join our brokerage, and they'd be on a 50-50 split. Wow. And we would do all of this, we would do basically all of this for them and keep them face-to-face-on appointments. And I mean, we would take an agent doing 10 or 15 deals to 70 deals in a year and they loved it. But at the end of the year, they always have, you know, hey man, let's talk about split.

You know, this 50% and be like, yeah, man, we over here 50 employees deep. You know, the machine that built everything that made you get there, you know, it was worth it. But it was too much. And so, you know, once, you know, once, you know, I've been here eight years at EXP. So I get plenty of money in revenue share. What would happen if I actually invested in the age of success? What would, you know, would we be? be able to recruit more agents when we'd be able to help more people and that was an obvious yes and

so i was like okay i got to quit being afraid of this this is the right thing to do you know what am i going to do play golf every day you know that that's that's i'm not very good at gaol i played a lot of golf and i'm still not any good but this to me is more fulfilling it's it's you know i love hearing the success stories i'm like man this works like if you're struggling and you need help he's like i just wish somebody would actually just help me with getting a system in place that that's really um It's rewarding for me. So, like, that's the, you know, I think my passion for this business and how hard it was for me and the agents that I've coached and the people that I saw where they get stuck is usually

implementation of an idea. We knew we could solve all that. And we got, to a certain degree, I think we got lucky that AI made everything just work better. So instead of me, you know, having somebody pick an image, AI picks the image. And instead of us asking the agent, hey, who's moving in your market? Well, I think it's this. AI is telling us who's actually moving right now in your market no matter what the condition is. And so it's not, it enabled us to have a customized approach to every agent, every market, and

execute AI doesn't miss. So that, you know, everything just worked better. And that was, you know, that was, you know, just, it's fortunate. I think that, you know, we're able to do it. And so, yeah, it's fun. It's a lot of fun. And yeah, I'm excited about the opportunity for anybody who's looking for help. Yeah.

One of the, I had an agent where I was reaching out to, actually she found me on LinkedIn and she said, what's this lead thing you've got going on? She goes. And so I said, well, just come to the webinar and just learn about it and see. And she said about three quarters of the way and she goes, uncle, uncle, I am coming. It's such an unbelievable offer that I was actually just on, I had a conversation with a good friend of mine, Chris Waters, number one agent and Austin, Texas, has a franchise, very successful guy, a good friend of mine. I coached him earlier on in his career, but he's wildly successful. And we were just talking about, you know, all of the, what goes into being able to do stuff like this. And when I explained to him the offer, he's like, oh my gosh, like that is unbelievable. And you don't charge of anything. I said, no, I don't need to. And he's like, golly, I wish I was doing that. You know, it's just, it's easy to help agents that want to succeed if they're coaching. Yes.

And as long as they're coachable, I can help anybody. And we try to read, there's a certain, you know, that we make you watch a video, take it a little test so we know you didn't just not pay attention before we ever turn anything on. So we know that you know what to do. That confidence that you know what you're supposed to do is super important to success. You don't feel lost. You don't feel stuck. Then, you know, we had to support this.

So, you know, a lot of these tools, I mean, everybody, you know, that's probably watching this has a CRM. And then if I ask you, how well are you utilizing it? that it's usually not at all or very little. And so we had to make sure that, you know, that you're trained on how to use the CRM to get the most out of it. And most people haven't tested thousands of text messages and automations. And when you send them to see what gets a response and what doesn't. So what are you going to do?

You're going to try generating thousands of leads and testing all these different things? Or what if you could just have it mapped to exactly what the best practice is and the highest converting, you know, messaging and follow-up sequences are. And so all of those things are just a shortcut to success where you don't have to learn all of that and figure all that out. And you just answer the phone when the phone rings. And that's, you know, I think most agents, you know, they're like, yeah, I'll take that. But it's funny because, you know, obviously this is how we recruit to EXP.

But if I said EXP ever in the conversation or if you would have messaged that agent and said anything about EXP, nine out of 10 of them are going to be like. like nope no thanks not interested and that's not necessarily wrong of them to do it to think that because they don't know what they don't know and if you look at most brokerage changes it's just like I'm over here trying to figure it out and you want me to come over there and try to figure it out because it's better over here to try to you know like you know there's a lot there's a lot of reason you should be at expe but it's not going to solve their immediate problem and that's

where now we have an approach where hey listen if you know if you're looking to grow and you'd like some help and you don't want to pay for it you have an option you don't have to come to expe but if the value is there and that's feels if it feels like your life is going to be better than making a move to expe becomes an easier decision to make than you know just hoping that things are going to get better with nobody actually helping you which I think that's you know that's what's unique about you know what we're doing you mentioned something earlier I think is important too with co-sponsor I don't

you know there's not a lot of understanding I think most people don't even know to look for it but a lot of agents when we built this it was before for co-sponsor was announced. And so I was in Cabo at Brent's event and I was like, what we just built was built for co-sponsor. Like, because I don't just help the agent that's coming on board getting recruited. I give funnel pilot to the agent that recruits them as well. And so that's what that's the right thing to do. Well, hey, let me help you with your business.

And I want you to have success so that, you know, that, hey, what we're doing is valuable. I want you to have experienced it, but then I'm also going to help your agent. And for you, when you're building an organization that the, if I came, if I was the sponsor, I said, oh, you got to come under me, then now I would be taking people from you. And so like, this isn't about just me helping you with your business. You want me to help everybody in your organization, not just with their production, but also attract agents. Yes.

So if I don't become the co-sponsor, then that doesn't, that philosophy doesn't work. It actually is the, you know, it's the reason you were like, I like. it but I don't like it and and I found that a lot of agents have are trying to force people to come in and let them be the sponsor and come in you know under someone else's organization and I didn't think that was the it wasn't you know you're gonna make a lot of people mad if you do that but it to me it just didn't feel like the right way so you know we we just become a part of your organization and help you grow it together and so that that again it just checked a lot of boxes like this is kind of really one of the most brilliant things we've ever done

by accident but but yeah it's been it's been it's It's been wildly successful. We've been slow to grow on purpose because anytime that you do something that works, doing it at scale is always going to introduce new bottlenecks and challenges. And so we beta tested it from March last year till September. You know, anytime you move a bottleneck, so if I give somebody a thousand leads today, they have a new bottleneck and that is contacting those leads. And so on the back end of us delivering on this promise, if we have 100 agents today, can

we deliver can we on board can we get them set up can we run get these ads up and going and we had to make sure that we could do those things so that nobody had a there was no wait station for anybody that was unnecessary and so so yeah it's it's at it's at a place now where it only gets better every day because of AI and yeah it's exciting because I think a lot of agents are struggling a lot of markets are complete they're all different I mean it's wildly diverse right now in terms of some price points in your market maybe you know you have a ton of inventory and a lot of expires homes aren't selling and then another price point you're getting five offers you know and so where's that sweet spot who's actually moving and let's what are their hopes fears concerns the

desires and let's go market to those people let's go find those people and that's not what a traditional zillow or obsidi or they're not that's not they're not thinking of who's actually a good qualified person that I should be trying to reach through marketing And so you get a lot of leads that are not, they're not what you're looking for. And this is a lot more targeted to the people that are actually moving. And that's the beauty of marketing is you can point that gun wherever you want to point it, whatever market you want to point it. And we're able to find the gold, you know, mine the gold a lot easier that way.

Yeah. Well, one of the things that the scale from California that I brought on, she started right away with the process of it. And she said her leads were attracting some, but they weren't going up. and your team reached out and said, hey, it's not, we're not meeting that right criteria. We gotta regroup it. I love the fact that your team reached out to her and said, yeah, we gotta regroup.

Yeah, we're wanting to do it, yeah. Yeah, that's part of the process. 100%. Yeah, I mean, again, if I only win, if you are selling properties and we see that something's not meeting the baseline criteria we have for what we feel like success would be, then we're gonna change it.

I mean, like, you don't have, you don't have to worry about that. We're, you don't have to worry about that. You don't have to worry if it's not working, we're going to, we'll know for the most part. Now, I did have one person that gave me an interesting challenge. And he said, man, you know, I tried it, but it wasn't working. I said, well, let's go through your data. And he had, he had, truly, he said, everybody I'm talking to doesn't speak English.

Now, he was in Miami, which that is a real thing, you know, that can happen. Not necessarily out of a hundred people, they're not all going to speak a different language. But we may, we could shift that marketing to a different segment or mess. messaging could be different. Probably, you know, when I really broke it down, what we learned was he only talked to three people. And then he said, then he said, this doesn't work. Instead, if he would have talked to 30 people, he would have probably talked to enough that he would have sold a house to someone that spoke English or whatever. But so a lot of times I think, you know, you got to give it the fair test of 30 days to make sure, you know, you've talked to enough people to say this is working or not and not just say, hey, it doesn't work. And so that was the situation with them. But again, you know, you've talked to. You know, you've talked to enough people to say this is working or not and not. And so that was the situation with him. But. But, but. But Again, you know, it there was tweaks that we made that made that a lot better for him too. But yeah, that's, you know, maintaining it and getting you to the result has to be the focus. Why? Because I don't make anything if I don't help you sell a house. So, you know, yeah, it's that financial alignment.

Like, you know, I feel like most people sell you something and then they get paid. And then if it works, it works, it doesn't. It doesn't. And, you know, they'll tell you it's you, but are they really, are they really worried about whether you're successful or not? not so much. They already got paid. And that's where the misalignment in this industry is, is most of the people that are taking your money are, you know, now Zillow's different. Zillow is like, yeah, you got to convert, you got to do all these things. And now you're beholden to them. They put you in handcuffs. But they take 41 percent. You know, that's a lot. That's, you know,

$4,000, $5,000. Well, if you had your own system, you could generate that same deal for $150,000, and you could take it whichever lender you want. And it's your business, your database, you can take it anywhere. And so I think that's, that's what I'm trying to do for people. Give them their own business and their own system into end and then supporting it. You mentioned it, but like, you know, we have office hours every day. So my entire team is on online, whatever problem you have, face to face, jump into your computer, take over the screen and fix anything that you need at any given time. You know, that's, it's one hour a day, you know, that you know, that you know, you can get a problem solved. So within 24 hours, no matter how lost or stuck you are,

having somebody to talk to face to face feels good. And I think that's another thing that's missing in this industry. If you got a problem with any of these lead service companies or even the CRM companies, getting help is hard. Like they don't respond or you know, watch this, you know, you go through, you know, the help section of here's all these videos you should watch. I was like, man, why don't somebody just fixed this for me? Right.

And I found that that agents appreciate that. So I love the branding piece of it with Holly. So first of all, you meet with Holly. She wants to know about your company, your vision, your goals, what your focus and all that. And she creates the branding, gives you suggestions. How do you like about it? Do you want to go forward? Fine.

Then she comes over and takes over my computer and puts it on all my different platforms. I said, are you kidding me? Because I could get lost on that for 100%. That's a, it's one of the, it's a, it drains me to do. that stuff like it's like i could probably figure it out but it's going to be a what's what usually happens is i never finish it and so like i have good intentions to do it but i'd never got to the end zone and so again just thinking through what is the agent problem it's the implementation of ideas like if we can build all that stuff but then you got to go do it then you know how much did we

really help you but if we install it for you and your your youtube is done your instagram is done all of your LinkedIn everything brand look feel is and it's targeted to and it's and it's tagged so that AI search finds it I don't know how I mean I wouldn't know how to do all those things there's no way I'm gonna get it right and so you're having a team that step by step executes the right things in the right order like you can have your brand done first if you wanted to but that's not gonna help you close a deal right so we've had to first generate attention and then if we generate attention now your brand matters and

So we do these things, you know, methodically because it's the right things in the right order. And then the last piece, content is, you know, everybody's, you know, I met a guy who was a newer agent. And, you know, they were, you know, he has, they, I'll just tell him. He's a Keller Williams. So not that Keller Williams is a bad company. At least they're trying to help this guy. But there's a coach. He's paying for the coach.

He has a, I think he's been wildly successful at some level that you, you want to believe, hey, this guy could help me. But he doesn't have a track record of helping other people. get there and if it was when you think about it like the things that I did to be successful I would never tell anyone to do because I did everything I tried this and it didn't work I tried that it didn't work the shortcut is don't try this don't try that do this first do that but I didn't know that until I was able to help somebody from scratch and be like no you need this website you need this leave nope don't do that do this next and then there was a there's a methodology to

how to grow faster and it means taking away things you know that don't work and doing only the things we know that work and that you can actually get a result from. He was being told to shoot all this social media stuff, which I think we all know we should do more content and things of that nature. But what's the actual expectation? Do you expect to close a deal from three videos, 10 videos, 100 videos? Never, you know, he's done it for eight months and nothing, you know, has materialized really. He feels good because he's accomplishing, you know, the thing he's been told to do, but the

results aren't there. So, you know, like at some point, you know, I hope. I'm hoping this will help me sell a house and be like let's just let's just keep doing that if you want to but let's do the thing we know we'll get you into more conversations first and then let's add content to that subset of people that were generating interest so if we're generating interest from a buyer or a seller that has hopes fears concerns desires about making a move and we understand who that person is we can create content that's very specific to them positioning you as an expert and build trust with a stranger.

And that's how we continuously build a, you know, build an audience of people that know who you are, that know you're an expert in this thing. And instead of them not replying to an automated text, they go, oh, my God, you know, you just watch the video. And so these are just things that, you know, if you had to do it all yourself, it never gets done. And when you have a team that does it for you, makes it, makes it faster to get to your first closed deal and have a, you know, predictable, consistent pipeline. Well, and what I'm seeing out here is so many agents are struggling.

And I just did a research on what was the average age of realtors out there? Yeah, 57 years old. Yeah. So 57 years old is scared of AI, number one. They've been, if it's a second or third career, like I got in at 56 when I got in. And I'm 20 years in, I'll be 76 this month. So the point is there's a lot of agents that have been struggling through the years. that maybe they're doing great, but they have no end game.

And this agent attraction on top of getting sales is a combo for the end game as well as the sales. So you can build the end game, be the total end game with the revs year. That's the goal for me. Yeah, 100%. And that was, that's been my biggest, you know, aha. And I say, I'll say these numbers and people are going to, you know,

judge whatever, but like, I've tried my whole life to, you know, to make the right decisions and climbed all these mountains of what would some people might call success. But when I was selling 500 homes a year, I was the most miserable I'd ever been. And I was also the less free I'd ever been. I was working longer hours, evenings, weekends. It didn't get me freedom. And I was like, I spent 10 years climbing this ladder to realize this didn't get me there. So there's got to be a better way.

And I kept evolving to the new mountain that you climb and trying to figure out, well, how do you get free? How do you get residual and passive income? and what are all the ways to do that? And, you know, I bought 28 rentals before I was 28 years old. And then 07 and 08 hit. And I was negative net worth after that. And so, you know, I'm like, okay, well, 10 years of my life, you know, down the drain, try again. Like how many times do we, nobody really, you know, has given us a clear path.

I mean, you can try to save and invest. But in real estate, it's hard enough to save enough to pay your taxes, much less safe for your future. And so, you know, there had to be a better way. you know that I think that's what I woke up saying for 20 years like there's got to be a better way than the way I'm doing it and you know you look up and you know another 10 years go by another 10 now you now you're behind you're really far behind where you need to be to be able to not that and I think most of us are real estate agents are we're all liars we all say I don't ever want to retire you know I love what I do but if I asked if I asked you in a separate

conversation hey if you had 50 million in the bank or even just to say 10 million that was paying you 8% every year of it, that's $800,000 in passive income, would you go back and sell more houses? Most people are going to say, nope, I'm done after that. That's all I would need. And if you would, that's great, you know, but I think most agents probably, most people, most humans would invest their time differently. You wouldn't be going on that evening or weekend appointment if you had $800,000 a year being paid to you. And so, you know, we kind of, you know, we tell ourselves a story of like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll do it. I mean, I love doing this and I'll do it forever, but it's because we don't have a vehicle to get us financially free so that we can choose to do with our time, whatever

we want to do. And, and, you know, it's a great business. It's not, you know, it's, you can go sell a handful of houses forever and love it, but you'll love having, you know, income that comes in every month more and having the freedom of choice to spend your time doing whatever you want, traveling, whatever it may be. And so, yeah, the revenue share is, there's nothing like it. And I think everyone should understand it. You know, you don't have to recruit. I don't feel like we recruit anybody. I feel like we're just looking for people that want our help.

And if they want our help, then they, you know, they can come over to XP and we'll help them. And every time we help them win, we win a little bit too. That's a beautiful thing. But, you know, I have, you know, one of my good friends that was a coaching client, he was in my mastermind. I helped them build, you know, when we were coaching, we were coaching to build that thing that I climbed the ladder of that I knew wasn't the right answer. And, you know, he built it to.

million dollar a year gross commission you know real estate team and you know he was in control of it and all that and i said man there might be a better way we're here you know at expe you know and he's like yeah for the longest time he's like no i'm good you're like this is this is you know he the teams have the same challenges that they've always had which is recruiting in retention of talent on your team is a certain point you you know you run into this challenge of your best people that somebody that just did i was talking to chris water this morning and And, you know, last year, his top agent did 70 transactions, got out of the business, got out of the business. So you can't really control that.

And so you got to replace 70 transactions next year. And that's what keeps you up at night when you have a team. And so that's that the revenue share and this is the math people don't, nobody teaches this. But $8,000 a month or $96,000 a year, you have to have $1.2 million of money after you live, pay your money to live. live after your taxes, you've got to save $1.2 million invested safely. And this is the other thing people don't tell you. You're going to make a mistake. You're going to put money in something that goes to zero. You're going to put money in something that doesn't grow at all. And then you're going to, you're going to, you might even blow all that $1.2 million before you really learn

where to put it. And you're going to put it into vehicles that don't pay you passively. You're going to freak out and sell when it's low instead of when it's high. Having money is a whole another mountain to climb. And so if by chance, and if you look at, well, hey, if I just keep doing what I'm doing, I'm disciplined and I save this, you know, and I was on a plane coming back from Puerto Rico and I just put a half a million dollars into an apartment complex and it was going to pay 8%. Now, it hasn't paid me 8% yet, but that's what it's supposed to pay. That was, you know, that's the number on the spreadsheet. And, you know, that half a million bucks is worth $3,333 a month. And so that's not a lot of money. Um, it's not a lot of money. Um, it's

nice but it's not a lot of money meanwhile in revenue sure at the time i'm making three sometimes 400 000 a month i'm like this is way easier to create with no capital investment i didn't have to save 1.2 million after taxes and invest it and you know and all of that to make you know significantly more i said this is a path that is much easier and i'll be honest it's a lot more fun because you're actually helping people and that and it's not you know that's that's that is a way more doable for anybody than making 1.2 million. And if people are honest and they look at it, because I would lie to myself. I know I would, I would lie.

I would be like, I'm going to do this much. I'm going to have this much left over. Whoops, I bought a new boat. Whoops. I bought a bigger house. Whoops. I didn't have. I could have if I was more disciplined.

But when you got a lot of money coming in and you don't think that's ever going to stop. So what do you do? You go spend more. And so all of those things are just, you know, my life lessons that I've gone through. And without a capital contribution, you can create the same. kind of leveraged income coming in through revenue share using our offer so you don't have to deliver on that promise. So my team does. And that's, you know, it's thought and it compounds and grows. And you know, the since we did co-sponsor, I think I've co-sponsored under 500 agents and there's

over a thousand agents that's in that network. That's, that means every one person that got recruited was actually two. And if you look up eight years from now, I can tell you that that number is going to be a lot bigger than a thousand. Yeah. So it grows. whether you do something or not. And that's, it's hard as an entrepreneur because you're not the one that I have nothing, I have little to do with what I have a little bit to do with it because it's the offer.

But I have a, you know, you went, some other, somebody else went and had a relationship with somebody and introduced them and introduced them to the webinar. No different than Lindsay has done. I didn't have to do that. You didn't have to do that. She's excited and she's doing it.

And that's, you know, I think it's, you know, unless you just beat, hit, you know, hit the, your face against the walls many times as me you don't really really appreciate how how amazing that opportunity is and so it's it's just you know i wish i could just shake someone and be like listen no you don't get it you aren't even on the mountain yet where you're going to learn this lesson so i know you can't see this yet but if you would just listen to me right now i promise you this is what you need to hear and so so yeah that's you know and we're helping people get financially free and you know that's a

i mean what you know what more meaningful of a life could you live so i feel blessed that i get to help people do that. Yeah, the first, when I first came over to E-XP, I didn't even know what it was. I just joined the team because of a transition that was happening. The team, I just joined them in two weeks later, they said, we're going DXP. I said, I don't even know what it is. I trust you guys. My own team had disbanded and lots of stuff. And so I just said, whatever. And the first thing that I saw was a collaboration that was happening in DXP, which blew my mind because I'd never never instead of four other brokers. And I thought, wow, I like that. that and then when I saw the stock not even publicly traded yet because I used to have my

securities license I said if this is as good as I think it is this is a stock to have right and then then when I saw the refs share I said are you kidding me this is like network marketing except we're all doing the same career I'm not trying to sell magnets or nutrient I said this is amazing and I do I saw it immediately and dove in and my very first rev share check was 48 dollars I was doing double back flips. I said they're paying me. They're paying me. I said wow. And my average check is between five and seven thousand dollars a month. So I'm not on the scale of you. But tell that to a realtor who would love to have five or seven thousand just coming in to

yeah. I mean, it's you know that again, you have to you have to net close to a million dollars and invest that at something that pays eight percent to create that. And I'm going to tell you right now, I know a lot of people that have made a lot of money and don't have that. And so and that's, you know, that's in you wait, you can spend your whole life investing in different things, hoping that they go up. The stock market, you know, unless you got a dividend stock is not paying you every month. So it goes up, it goes down, you know, and it doesn't create liquidity so that you can it lower. You know, when you start when and I know that I know how it felt because I had the same thing. My first check was $13 and $20 something.

And so, you know, I was like, it's already started. You know, like, hey, that's $13 that I didn't do anything, you know, that they came in whether I did anything or not. Yeah. And, you know, when it pays your house payment and then it's paying your house and your electricity and your car payment, now, man, you got some breathing room on those months that you don't sell something. You know, and you get to a place where you're like, this is really better than that $20,000 commission. I just did that I have to do every single month in order to make it happen. And usually that's when it clicks. And so, yeah, once you know, once you get a check that, you know, just shows up in your account.

It happened for my son. It happened for Brayden. So we were at, we were at EXPCon. And Braden had recruited somebody from, I don't even know, probably Instagram or something, you know, somebody he knew or whatever. They come over and he doesn't know when they're going to sell a house or not. He didn't even know where to look to see when that happens. They sold a house and it wasn't alive. It was $300 and something. But back then, Braden was probably $20, 19 or $20. And we were about to go to sleep. We've been out, you know, in North. lens with all the you know all the HP parties and everything and uh and he's like the next morning the morning he woke up and he's like man dad last night I dreamed that I got a revenue share check and I was like dude that was right before you went to bed we logged into your bank you logged into your bank account and you said you had 300 bucks and we logged into your rev share and so you

the agent you recruited to close the deal and he's like that was real he's like oh my god like for him at that time that was you know that is it is like is my debit car going to work tomorrow which we've all been there and so and unfortunately in real estate some months you end up there and you don't you know you didn't mean to be but that's that that that is um an opportunity that didn't exist in real estate like you know it didn't exist and so gosh man you know going back to you know i think of all the horror stories like 0708 and there's there's times when you know there's time i got turned down the worst it ever was for me now that mind you this was after i'd sold 500 homes a year go through 0708 i've never been this broke but looked this

successful okay you know everybody looks at you like you're killing it even i'm like I'm barely surviving it right now. And I got turned down for, I didn't have any bad credit. Nothing. I never missed the payment on anything. And I tried to get a washer and a dryer for zero percent financing at Sears. And they turned me down because of my credit. And, and, you know, those are, those are sickening moments.

I, you know, like at that point, I was like, I'm never going to be in this place again. And though, you know, so you go through these, these challenges and times in life. And I think that's why I have such an appreciation for when you. have money that can compound by just helping people, that's what gives me purpose. Like, you know, hey, man, it doesn't have to be that way. You don't ever have to experience that again. I ran my debit card before and it not worked when there was money in the account and how, still how embarrassed I felt that it didn't work like there might not have been money in

there. That was such a real visceral feeling when that happened. I'm like, what's wrong with y'all's thing? It doesn't work. I know there's at least $100 in there. You know, and so, yeah, man, it's this business is, you It is a huge opportunity, but there's not anybody really helping you. And like you said, what you said, Kathy, being at four different brokerages, and I didn't know what I didn't know.

Everybody was cheering me on. I was 18, 19 years old. When I got in the business number, you're going to be so great. Go get them, Jay. And in the first transaction that I had, I came back to the office with a buyer I'd been showing. I got him off a floor time. And sure enough, Tom King's like going to help me write the contract. Well, he helped me write the contract.

He helped me so much. He did it all. and kept the client and they stole the client from me. First deal. And my dad had just bought this cobal banker. Tom King was the number one agent in that office. And the first deal that I would have done, I didn't get that deal.

And my dad didn't do anything about it. And so I was so mad that I made it my life's purpose to just beat Tom. I didn't care if I ever made a dollar. I just wanted to beat Tom King. And so the agents in your office, they might be really nice to you, but they're your competitors.

And so they're never, ever, ever going to share their best ideas with you and you don't realize that and so you feel like hey everybody you know like but they're meanwhile they've got something that's working that they will never breathe a word to and so yeah i didn't learn that until i got into i didn't learn collaboration the value of it until i flew to another market and got into a room with people that didn't feel like hey i can share that with this guy he's in ok he's not a threat to me um and that's and i learned okay hey i got to get in more these rooms and i did that for years learning from other people. Well, at EXP, that's what we do all every day. So nobody guides,

guards their best ideas. It's like, hey, this is working. Try this. Hey, what are you doing? Hey, everybody is sharing their best ideas. Well, why do we do that? Because if everybody does better at EXP, the stock does better, we do better. And if you've got anybody that you've personally recruited, you'd give them everything you got to help them be successful because that's the only way that you're going to earn revenue share. So you real quickly adopt, it's just better for me to be of abundance mindset and share everything, than it is for me to keep it to myself. And so we tend to either attract agents

that have an abundance mindset, or you go from having the scarcity mindset to having an abundance mindset because of the environment. And that's, you know, you can tell when you come over, you're like, whoa, why is this so different? You know, why? This isn't like my other office was. And it's hard to convince people that's different

and it matters, but it fundamentally is the fabric of EXP. And that is, is extremely valuable. And some companies do a good job of it. They're big events and you go and everybody's sharing and you learn at those events. But I think for the most part, you've got to get to those events to find those secrets, you know, and that's for some people that's not, you know, they don't know they don't even know that that's what they should be doing. Right. That's the biggest challenge. I did a LinkedIn article about all the events that EXP has. All of them, all the EXP cons, then all the builds they're around. There's so much. There's so

many events to just grow from and connect with. And because it's in all these different countries, it just gives us so much opportunity to expand globally. I've got someone in Portugal. He's the head of Portugal, actually, and I brought him in from LinkedIn. That's how I met him. Yeah. Well, sounds like we should be doing a call on LinkedIn because you've already mentioned it twice. So you're probably doing LinkedIn better than I do LinkedIn. But isn't that crazy, right? And that happens, you know, what inevitably happens is, you know, you join XP. And when I first saw it, you were talking about not joining EXP. There was nothing that could be said that would have convinced me to join me. I looked at it multiple times. And I, I didn't really completely understand

it, but I was like, I liked some things about it. And then it wasn't until Al Stasig said, man, look at this for me. Bye. Love you. And he said, look at it. And you tell me if this is better for me. Now, Al's my friend, and I'm looking at it for my friend, and I'm, you know, I looked at it through a different lens. Not like I was looking at it for me, but I was like, I was like, well, that, that's better. That, well, that's, you don't get that if you're independent. You don't have that. And so it became, well, if it's better for Al, and I've coached Al, you know, his old career, who else is it better for?

It's better for, and if it's better for everybody, maybe it is better for me, too. And that's when, you know, the gate of the mind opened up and, you know, I finally looked at it and, you know, started to really understand it a little bit. And that, you know, I think people have to get to the place where the mind is open because this is just dramatically different than what you think it would be. And that's, you know, it's like if you see a UFO for the first time, is that a UFO? I'm not sure what that what that is. But that's kind of what you experience when you're uncovering, hey, this might be a better

opportunity. And so, yeah. I think that a lot of the other companies have bad mouth EXP lot because they're losing so many people. I got a broker owner from KW who terrified me. She's strong deep personality really in your face if you said something and I'm an eye so I'm intimidated by that. And I was in Pilates with her and one day she says, we got to pack up our office and move. And I go, because she had a satellite artist. So she had a satellite piece. You know how KW. Yeah, yeah. And so I said, well, what's going on? She goes, well, it's not profitable. So we got to

shut it down and I go oh wow I said I bravely said so what's made you never look at expe and she says we sell too many homes that and it wouldn't make sense and I go I said I don't think you were really had it explained to your property would you be open to looking at it again and she said okay and so she brought her to partners along and Shelley Johnson who you know was my sponsor and she said well I'll present it to I said, great. Just came to the meeting to try and figure out why they'd lost so many Keller Williams agents. And when they were done, they all looked at each other and said, dang, we're going to EXP. Yeah, right, right. Yeah. So over the years, and it's, you know, in the beginning, you know,

when something's new and you're losing people, what do we do? What do we do? You look to your leadership and if your leadership says, oh, it's this and it's not true and it's not sustainable. All of these things made up and so if you don't do your own research for yourself and you just trust your leadership and they you know well it's you know I trust them that's why I wouldn't be here if I didn't so they never formed their own opinions and that's you know I think that's why you got to do your own research and you got to come to your own conclusion you know as to what it is and if it's better or worse and and you know certain things may be better or worse you know then where you're at you know and

in the beginning there was certainly things that weren't dialed in like you know and so you know that there's some truth to some of those things and a lot of it's made up. And so, but that's, you know, I've seen a lot of people come, you know, once they did their own research, they were like, yeah, I had no idea. And so you got to put that aside as like, hey, where did I, where did I form this opinion of what EXP is? Because if you talk to 10 people, they're going to say, nine of them are going to say no. But if they didn't form their own opinion on their own, you know, how do you get them to open the gate of the mind? Well, I found that it's easier to just attack the problem they currently have, which is how do we help you sell an additional

two to three homes a month and that they go yeah show me how to do that help help i'm interested and then say and by the way you know you come to expe you get all this and that and that's that's just a over eight years going on nine years being at expe we've evolved you know as to how we present what we and what we offer and all those things to to get somebody you know it's funny because people get on that webinar and you ask them ahead of time and they're like there's no way in the world i ain't never leaving where I'm at I'm gonna die here like I've had people talk to me I had a guy called me this is a funny story how a guy gentleman call me he's probably in his 70s he's at Kellow Williams and he's like hey man I saw your webinar thing he's like I need that he goes

here's what I'm trying to do I said yeah we would work really well for what you're trying to do and he said but I ain't coming to XP so like what do I got to do how much do I got to pay you for you to build that for me I said well I said okay I said I could you know I could charge you for it but I said I really don't want to take your money and And we went on and on and on and I started laughing. I said, man, I said, this is the funniest conversation I've ever been in. I said, I've been trying for 15 minutes not to take your money. And you've been trying for 15 minutes to give it to me.

I said, why don't you do this? And I had to jump to another call. I said, why don't you do this? Why don't you decide tonight how you're going to pitch me as to why you should pay me and stay at Keller Williams. And then tomorrow, I want to hear what it is that they're doing to help you that is making you want to stay there. And he's just comfortable. You know, that's all it was. He was just comfortable.

I don't want to leave. I like my office right here. I got everything set up the way I wanted. I didn't want to leave. And so, but I said there, you know, he got back on a call the next day. And he said, he said, I thought about everything you said. And to be honest, I've been trying to get help from my office with this kind of stuff for three years. And they haven't been able to help me at all.

I bought this thing. I bought that thing. It didn't work. He's like, I just really need the help. And if it means I got to move offices, I don't see any reason why I shouldn't do it. And so, and so, you know, he would, you know, he would. you know, he was, when he talked to me, it was so matter of fact, I was like, and I know what the, the Kelly Williams team leader had to have been like, man, we might lose agents, but I'll tell you

what, he's never going anywhere. Yeah. He had the Kelly Williams pin on, you know, he's, he was dead set on being, he was going to die a Keller Williams agent. And, and, you know, the value was there, and he moved. And that, you know, I think that's, that's what's fun for me is like, hey, listen, you know, you may like your broker, but, you know, if they're not helping you get to your goals, then there might be a better way. Yeah, and bring the broker. Right. Yeah. I promise you, she woke up the next day going, that's the last agent I thought we would lose for sure. But yeah, so yeah, and the broker's economy, you know, it's, I don't know how you survive in a market where you can't compete. And so when this is, you know, look at, you know, all the most

successful investors and your Warren Buffett's, they look first at what is your competitive advantage. Yeah. And if you don't have a competitive advantage, you know, you don't have a competitive advantage, this is Jack Welch in the book winning, you know, the CEO GE years and years ago, is like, if you don't have a competitive advantage in a market, then don't compete. Like, you shouldn't even be playing that marketplace because if you can't be a number one or number two, you shouldn't do it. And, you know, there's all these brands that are out there that have no way to compete with the model of EXP. You literally can get paid to be here. So if you can't do that where you're at, then the value proposition is nowhere near what EXP is. Yeah. And so it's, you know,

it's kind of a no-brainer when you think about it that way, but I think most people don't even realize, hey, you mean I could get the stock for the 16,000 I paid in back, I could earn revenue share just off of people I run into randomly, not even try to recruit. And now I'm getting paid more than 100% to be here. That's better than being independent. It's better than paying a royalty to any franchise. It's better than anything else out there. And no one else can say that. That's why we have so many copycatters trying to create what we've created. And I say we because I feel like it's our company. But, you know, this is all good.

Flynn's Samford's brilliance. But certainly blessed that. I'm just glad that I was open enough to see it. Me too. Well, I have a woman I interviewed on a podcast and she does mergers and acquisitions. And I wasn't necessarily strictly for real estate agencies. And I originally said, I don't think I want her on the podcast because I think she's going to be out of business. And so I told her that when I finally said, you know, maybe I'm mistaken here.

but she has a limited pool. And I said, you know, come to EXP, girl. But anyway, it was just, she said, you were an evangelist for EXP. And I said, I couldn't believe in something anymore than I do this company. And for me, if I talk to you about this company, it's because I believe it's a blessing and a gift to you. Yeah. And it is.

It's life-changing, not just for me. I hear it all the time. Yep. Yeah. That's so true. So true. And yeah, it's like when you get to a, and you know, I get it. Some people love where they're at and they're saying that they might say the same thing about the brokerage that they're at. This is, this is if, and anybody could join any brokerage and try to make it not work for them, right? You know, agents join EXP and they and, you know, there's always agents that are going to say, oh, you know, it wasn't, you know, it wasn't very good. You know, it's up to you. I don't care what brokerage you're at. It's up to you to make things work. Nobody's going to make it work. Nobody's going to make it work. for you, I think to the extent we are doing that now. But which is what I think is that again, that's how it's missing. Anywhere you go that is missing, which is wild when you think about it.

When you really think about it, what I'm doing is just helping agents at the level that they need help to start consistently closing deals. Why no brokerage does that? I have no idea. But that's, you know, they, you know, I think the recruiter recruits you and then they don't have an incentive. They're incentivized on agent body count. production right so if you get an agent to say yes that person yeah I got them to say yes whoever's job it is to help them sell a house oh there isn't a that there isn't anybody they're on their own okay well maybe we should put somebody in charge of that and that would help them and that's you know

that but the financial alignment EXP is taking half of the money that comes into the company and they're paying that out to people that recruit agents and now if you help them actually close deals you get paid not getting money up front for recruiting somebody. That's a different, that's a, that misalignment and compensation drives a different behavior. And that's what, when you really take a step back and you say, let's dissect this EXP model, why is it so successful? Why does it work? It's, it is agent-centric, meaning Glenn Sanford doesn't make any decision that's not better for the agent. You can't say that about any other company that's out there. You really can't, because if they're, if they took any

investment then they have an obligation to return profit and where do they get their profit from siphoning it from agents so it's not a bad thing it's just understanding that there's different models that have different incentives the different incentives that drive different behavior and organizations but when you look at all the companies I won't name them all but there there's siphoning off the agent if they come up with an idea like I had to help agents they're looking at can this drive profit is this going to help the company be more profit

that's not what I'm incentivized to do I'm incentivized to help the agent and so when you got a whole army of people that are thinking that way what happens people get more help and that's you know that's a wild it's wild to think about how different that really truly is but that's why it works it's the only reason it works well I love that you are on here today because I really I want to promote this and I want people to hear I'm not the only evangelist for it right well hopefully I I gave some color and some things to think about the I think it's always you just keep an open mind you know you know one of the things I spoke in in Sacramento Brent goes office last week and and one of the things that's helped me the most and it's just something Michael Reese says all the time and in the beginning I didn't like it because it really forced me to think that I'm wrong and so it's like just assume you're wrong and whatever you think and we have really strong beliefs especially you know we make these decisions we do things and you know you feel like your identity is attached to what you're wrong. you're doing and and it's real hard to say hey I'm probably wrong so like I've just been wrong

enough to know that I'm probably wrong about something so what am I missing and just be that allows you to be open-minded and receive the information instead of through a filter of you being trying to be right and and so it's it's helped to me tremendously so I would just say hey assume you're wrong just assume assume hey I'm probably missing something what is it and then if you look at it through that lens, I think you might see that this might be a better way. Maybe not, not for everybody, but but yeah, that's that that's helped me tremendously, mainly because I've been wrong so much, but it certainly helps. Wow. Well, this has been great, Jay. I appreciate you being on here. Yeah, it's my pleasure. It's always, it's always a joy to talk to you and looking forward to

us growing together and adding more value and making a difference in people's lives. I appreciate it. Well, that's it, everybody for real estate riches. And I appreciate Jay. And hopefully you'll subscribe and see you on the next one. Thank you.