Know Thyself - E103 - Matt Kahn: Embody This Spiritual Wisdom & Become Your True Self

Episode Date: July 2, 2024

Today we are joined by spiritual teacher and highly attuned empathic healer, Matt Kahn, to discuss the nuances of spiritual awakening and moving from the head to the heart. Matt explains this journey of becoming our truest selves as one where we must learn to balance the mind and the heart, navigating the fallbacks of ego as we move forward on our spiritual path. He provides a very useful framework for how to move through this with grace and in turn unlock a higher state of being. He and André discuss the spiritual ego, transforming trauma, the power of forgiveness, and navigating the balance of grace and boundaries.  André's Book Recommendations: https://www.knowthyself.one/books ___________ Timecodes: 0:00 Intro  1:28 The Gifts & Challenges of Empathy 8:05 Nuances of the Spiritual Ego 24:01 Using the Breath to Heal & Transform 30:23 Striking the Balance of Non-dualism and Esoteric  38:35 Integrating the Ego 48:55 Trauma as a Vehicle for Awakening 57:36 The Quickening Process of the Planet 1:03:04 Healing Childhood Trauma & Seeing the Bigger Picture 1:10:32 The Power of Forgiveness 1:16:38 Honoring Ourselves with Boundaries  1:23:00 Navigating Life with Grace & Compassion 1:27:45 Does the Universe Have a Plan for You?  1:36:50 Discerning Mystical Experiences 1:47:23 Talking to Ascended Masters 1:56:09 What It's Like to Channel 2:05:37 The Process of Clearing Your Name 2:09:54 Conclusion  ___________ Matt Kahn is an incomparable spiritual teacher, highly attuned empathic healer, powerful speaker, and captivating author. He enriches people’s lives by providing heart-centered solutions that ignite, delight, and unite! Matt wrote the highly acclaimed books Whatever Arises, Love That, Everything Is Here to Help You, and The Universe Always Has a Plan, which have been translated into more than a dozen languages. His second book, Everything is Here to Help You, was featured in the “Be Kind” box by Ellen DeGeneres. His newest book, All For Love: The Transformative Power of Holding Space, won a Gold IPPY Award (Independent Publishers Award) and an Ommie Award (World Vision category), and is topping bestsellers lists. Matt has become a YouTube sensation with his healing and often humorous videos. With 22+ million YouTube channel views, followers are finding relief from the challenges of daily life through his heart-centered messages. Among his honors, Matt was named one of the top 100 Most Spiritually Influential Living People by Watkins magazine, alongside the Dalai Lama and Eckhart Tolle. Website: https://mattkahn.org Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mattkahnofficial/ Documentary: https://mattkahn.org/love  ___________ Know Thyself Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/knowthyself/ Website: https://www.knowthyself.one Clips Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJ4wglCWTJeWQC0exBalgKg Listen to all episodes on Audio:  Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4FSiemtvZrWesGtO2MqTZ4?si=d389c8dee8fa4026 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/know-thyself/id1633725927 André Duqum Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andreduqum/

We're living on a planet that is really moving from self-realization of the mind to self-realization of the heart. So this is where spirituality becomes the highest level of spiritual attainment, which is called reality. In order for healing to be mainstream, we have to take it out of the spiritual counterculture. We have to not make it so special. There are these people waiting for enlightenment or self-realization, and they're avoiding their pain. So a lot of people spiritually tend to lean on the insight and the excitement of the realization. and they stay away from the breathwork. When we breathe shallowly,

we tend to identify with the most shallow ideas of ourselves. When we breathe deeply, we start to think deeply. We start to see deeply into ourselves. We have to go back and repattern it by saying, love is what heals the traumas. Love is what reacts you with the breath. It takes you into levels of enlightenment and actually takes you beyond enlightenment.

That's what the universe has waited lifetimes to see Earth in all of us. Hey everyone, welcome back to Know Thyself. Today we are sitting down with a best-selling author, a spiritual speaker and intuitive healer. He is an incredibly empathic individual and guide helping us remember our true nature and return to love. Matt Conn, thanks for being here. Thanks for having me. It's an honor to be here with you. I'm excited to drop in, man. It's a pleasure to meet you. Likewise. You're incredibly empathic and I feel like you have given amazing advice over the past couple decades to people that feel they're very sensitive. and don't want it to keep disregulating them, but harnessing it into a superpower.

What do you feel like the unique gifts and challenges are of being more empathetic and more sensitive in general? Wow. It's a great question. I think that, you know, it's a funny thing to dive into because I really think everyone's empathic, but I think we're at different levels of awareness and actualization. So I think that the benefit

is when you are aware that you're empathic. You're becoming emotionally sensitive, which means you can develop an ability to be compassionate for other people's experiences. You can become aware that we're all on a journey growing and evolving. You can develop patience and empathy and forgiveness. And you can start to realize that all the emotional experiences that you've gone through,

other people are processing. It's as if we're all having the same experiences, but in different orders. So we're all like a deck of cards shuffled in a different order of experiences. And I think when you're sensitive, you begin living a life from a space of unity consciousness.

So it's not just the decisions I make that are good for me as an individual, but what is good for also the world I'm a part of the community I'm shaping? And I personally always make decisions with the thought of how does this affect my family And really, how does this affect the world? I often think of it when I make decisions as,

and I think a lot of us as we become empathic, start to really think about, is the decision I'm making for myself, what I would want to make for everyone's body around me? And we start to live as leaders of this expanding awakening consciousness of the world. So I think, you know, becoming empathic or aware that you're an empathic being is a fundamental building block in the awakening of consciousness. because, you know, we're living on a planet that is really moving from self-realization of the mind to self-realization of the heart.

So we're all in a very interesting way becoming emotionally intelligent, and we become aware that everyone has had traumas and everyone has wounding, and it really informs our ability to connect with beings of any culture and any country and continent. The downfall could be, and this is where it gets interesting, is if we don't know that everyone is empathic, or everyone is bound to realize their empathy. And this might not be the answer I would have given a couple years ago, but something that's really interesting right now is that being empathic when we don't realize everyone's empathic and going to realize that can be an interesting way

of developing a subtle degree of specialness and it's where the spiritual ego can really lurk in a very unsuspecting way. way. So when it becomes my sensitivities and everyone around me has to kind of adjust their behavior for my sensitivities, it becomes a very interesting co-opting of ego. And I think that when I say specialness, we're all unique, we're all individuals, we're all beautiful, we all have gifts to contribute. But specialness is when I believe that based on the uniqueness of my experience, I deserve special treatment. And there can be this time where people who are empathic can think that that makes

them worthy of special treatment. And if we grow up feeling inferior, it's very common to then develop a sense of superiority. And so I think it's very important as empathic beings when we remember, I'm having unique experience. I'm having unique experience of feeling other people's energy. But when it becomes that egoic specialness, it's everyone needs to cower to my sensitivities, or I'm afraid other people's energies are getting on mine, and then we start judging people for their energies, or, you know, we start doing the same things we do in any ego structure, but with spiritual wallpaper and spiritual ideas. And so I think if we can actually humble ourselves and say everyone's empathic

and not make it an opportunity to lurk in some degree of specialness and realize that superiority will never heal the wounds of inferiority and really humble ourselves to say, I'm going to embrace my empathy, so I make it safer for the world to be okay with how empathic it is.

And then we unite the world, we integrate our ego and we allow ourselves to be empathic but humble and grounded at the same time and I think it's a very key thing

a lot of spiritual beings are working through at this time. I agree and I think it's a unique challenge unlike any other with the culture and society in which we live

because never has it been as easy or enchanting to have the display of virtuous characteristics. I love that you just said that by the way. I love the display of virtuous characteristics. Yeah.

I love that. Even with empathy, with acts of authenticity to, it really is a display for the appearance of the thing. Yeah. And it's not the actual embodied real thing. And I do think that it's an inevitable part in something that I've experienced in my own journey where, you know, I catch myself or have caught myself in times trying to appear to be the thing instead of being the thing. Right. And you're speaking about this real embodyment. from, you said self-realization, you know, for the mind to the heart,

this journey to heart consciousness and living life from the heart. And so I think a big theme I'm feeling is going to be for this podcast is moving into the heart and living in that heart consciousness and the embodiment process of not having the, you know, vulnerable narcissism that comes with, whether it's the spiritual kind of nuanced version of it, the overt version that most people are familiar with, with the grandiosity or like the vulnerable side, which is what you're sharing, which is by believing or having the ego say that I'm less than, it's just another way in which we're creating some sort of semblance of identity. And so yeah, I'd love for you to continue to dive and dive deep into

this unraveling of the ego's desire for the appearance of spiritual verbiage and wardrobe and all the right things to the embodiment of that heart conscious. I love this. And I think, so it begins with maybe two aspects of the same concept. It is either the spiritual ego is someone from an unworthy standpoint who is waiting for someone or the universe to rescue them. So I'm either waiting to be rescued or I believe I'm someone who needs to rescue others. That's where we really get to the heart of it. Are you waiting to be rescued or do you think that you need to rescue others? And I've seen it play out in many different ways. I've seen it play out people in my family. God bless my family. God bless all families, really. And I think, so really,

the heart of it is we're integrating things like righteousness and entitlement. Those are two building blocks that kind of mixed together with this idea of rescuership. So I'm either entitled to be rescued based on the past that I had. I believe I need to rescue others. And a lot of people, when they're caught in the spiritual ego, there becomes another confusion that I don't talk about a lot that I think is really worth saying, which is we can get very confused into thinking,

emotional processing is the deepest form of connecting with ourselves. And then we believe sometimes that if we're not emotional processing, with other people, we're not having the deepest conversations. And so spiritual beings who have this kind of rescuer ego get frustrated because they could say, oh, the people around me just wanna have surface conversations, they don't wanna go deep. And what happens is the ego is interacting with people

who aren't in a place to be rescued or to talk about the parts of them that are waiting to be rescued. And so it can make spiritual beings feel like, oh, we're not having a deep enough dive. And it's really the divine dressed up as a person pretending to not care about spirituality saying, I'm giving you a chance to take a break from your concepts and actually value being a human being. Because at the end of the day,

if having a conversation about everyday stuff isn't as equally as intoxicating as self-realization, we haven't really seen it. And in my experience, whether I'm talking to someone about a movie that they've watched or even if they're into stamp collecting, which isn't something I know anything about. But that to me is as equally interesting as a conversation about self-realization. So I think when we talk about how we're going to move out of spiritual counterculture, because I think one of the most interesting things to see is in order for healing to become not just the weird thing that we do or we do in our little special. special interest groups and, you know, because if you're high vibe, let's say you're high vibe.

Okay, you're high vibe. High vibe needs to take that energy to low vibe, right? That's like EMT workers or doctors who are hiding in the back room and don't want to help patients. Like, you need to take the energy where it goes. And so I think one of the most interesting things as we kind of process all of this is taking spirituality out of special interest groups. that in order for healing to be mainstream, in order for people to understand that awakening and healing are like different unexplored levels of maturity and puberty

the human being goes through, we have to take it out of the spiritual counterculture. We have to not make it so special. And so I think part of the integration journey that we go through as beings, we go through these awakenings, we go through emotional processing, and we go very into ourselves, to process our pain.

But I think also the reason why we have family members who don't care about spirituality, supposedly, or don't seem to be interested in this, is because the divine is giving us an opportunity to balance ourselves. And the hope is that we get to a place where there's no such thing as human conversations or spiritual conversations.

It's just different aspects of our total experience. and as we dive deeply into embodying heart-centered consciousness, we can ask ourselves, is there a part of me that's waiting to be rescued? Is there a part of me that perceives my traumas as a punishment and I'm waiting for the universe to give me my reward? Am I doing my spiritual practices waiting for some imaginary reward? Am I visualizing angels and some being clapping and applaud?

me? Am I manifesting thinking, I'm going to attract some big, grandiose reward that's going to pay me back for the punishment of my past? Can we actually wake up out of that? Because the truth, and then of course, can we also see the parts of ourselves that actually want us spiral and stay in process, stay in pain? But instead of it being our pain, it's the pain we need to help other people through because there's a difference between serving and I need to serve. I need people to be less than so I can be the one who's the voice of wisdom. I need people to be less than in order for me to be in a place of superiority. And in my position, as much as I am very popular and I love helping people, my wife and I both do, what's our intention? Our intention is to empower people so

much that they have it all within themselves to make us disappear, to make us absolutely. that has to be the intention. And so when we heal specialness, we are neither waiting to be rescued. We are not needing to rescue others. We are happy to serve. We are not perceiving our past as a punishment. We are not doing our practices to earn some reward.

And we are waking up out of our own spiritual bullshit. And we are coming into a state of embodiment, which is so inundated with humility. And in humility is very clear. The only reward of service is service. The only reward for peace is peace. The only reward for love is love. And we are blessed to love people

who don't say thank you in return because it's getting us out of our specialness. the reason I love is because it's not an option. There is no option. At first, love was an option. Then there's a thought of, why would I want other options? Love is just the biological function of who we are as the divine and human form. It's not an option at a certain point.

And there's no reason to think of choosing less than. And if choosing love causes me to be hurt, I pick myself up and I move on. So it's really interesting when we wake up out of needing to be rescued or rescuing other people, and we're out of this reward punishment dream state. And we are humble to be of service to the divine without it being, oh my God, I'm being so empathic. Will someone take my picture and put it on Instagram? It's not performative. It sometimes isn't pretty.

And sometimes it can feel very lonely. And that's all part of the vision quest. And the vision quest is to be a loving person, even when no one is looking. And even when there are parts of us that are less than loving, can those be the parts that we love? Not because we're waiting to get a reward. Not because the universe is going to be so impressed with our heart-centeredness,

but because it's what the wounded parts of us need to heal through the pain, it's still processing. And so this is where spirituality becomes the highest level of spiritual attainment I'll talk about, which is called reality. I just want everyone to be in reality. And it's a beautiful reality, even at a time like this.

Yeah. We'll get into the times. I love what you just share it. Thank you so much. That was amazing. Thank you. Part of what you said reminded me of this one quote from Choggym-trunkpa.

Oh, yeah. And I believe it's from spiritual materialism. I love that title. Walking the spiritual path properly is a very subtle process. It is not something to jump into naively. There are numerous sidetracks which lead to a distorted, ego-centered version of spirituality. We can deceive ourselves into thinking we are developing spiritually when instead we are strengthening our own egocentricity through spiritual techniques. It's a great quote.

And it reminds me also to have a quote from Ram Dass saying that, the real work that we have to do is the privacy of our own heart. And I think it's a natural part of the process of the spiritual evolution as an individual that we lose our way sometimes. And we can't fully know where the line is until we step over it. And then we come back into the humility and realizing how powerful we are and also how small we are. And so this notion, this understanding of aligning yourselves with reality,

and not needing to reinforce our own idea of specialness, but just being able to love, be of service, be of what's needed in any given moment, and that be enough. Right. It definitely takes maturity to arrive there. It does. Well, because, you know, the ego is what's trying to do all the things that we talk about right now.

The ego is like, okay, I'm going to either, okay, I'm not going to be special anymore. So then it's an ego trying to track its own non-specialness, right? which is not it either, because the ego can only do one thing in a time. So the ego is either going to be embracing its uniqueness at the expense of others, or it's going to be embracing everyone's uniqueness at the downfall of itself. That's all the ego can do is one or the other. It can't do both.

So the ego has to kind of implode through its inability to do this right. It's the implosion of the inner perfectionist. And it's a very delicate journey. And if we haven't found the humility up to this point, it's kind of like someone I guess who's in Vegas at a roulette table and they sit there and they go oh I'm winning I'm winning I'm winning oh my god

and then there's going to be a point where they stop winning and they try to get back on the winning track and there's going to be a point where it just all falls apart and that's what the part of spirituality people don't talk about is that even if you're someone who's done every practice and it never worked for you and you're like how come it works for everyone but not me that's part of the journey

Or it worked for me and then it stopped working for me. Or God forbid it worked for you the whole time. And you are like, I get how all of this works. I am winning. Everyone crashes and burns. Because it's how the deeper cocoons are created. And what comes out of the chrysalis of that deeper cocoon is what people can't manufacture.

practice or control themselves enough to get right. So part of the journey is getting into the spiritual groove. The ego is going to be the one who gets into the groove. It's the first one that gets the new wardrobe. It learns all the words. It learns the secret handshakes. It's all part of it. But it all leads to this incredible crash and burn

where what you've created as a spiritual character like a house of hearts implodes from the inside out. And what survives that crash and burn is the reality that's always been within you, the true nature, the nirvana, the samadhi, the oneness, the thing that the ego character either thinks it is, thinks it found, chases, or knows how to talk about. But that's what we create.

because once that crumbles and what exists as the golden phoenix rising from the ashes of our own neurosis and nonsense, that's what the universe has waited lifetimes to see birthed in all of us. That's very humbling. And that's why I, for one, have always seen this journey as we need to teach and focus on love because it's an intense journey. Our paths are intense. Our traumas are intense. Everyone deserves love.

And the journey we're on is a very intense one. Just as intense as it is for a mother to give birth to a child. And the child to move through the birth canal and into the world. It's a very intense experience. And we all deserve to be held in love. Because as we go through this experience, that's what's going to happen for all of us. We're going to be these containers, these doorways, for more love to enter the world. and I don't think that even in today's day I think we're just starting to emphasize the importance of love

but it's on purpose that in the beginning love gets kind of co-opted as oh if I love myself then I'll get the greater rewards or loving myself or raise my vibration then I'm going to manifest better things we get caught up in that culture but I think we're at a time with where the earth is and where the world is and things are so intense and the benefit of things being intense is that it makes spiritual nonsense not so alluring and then will we love ourselves when we're not getting our way will we love ourselves when the world is not the way we need it to be who are we when things aren't the way we demand them to be this is a very interesting time and again it just makes the necessity of love that much more dire.

And the effect, even though a lot of people shut down before they open up, the effect is it forces the world to come together as a community once again. And it's a beautiful thing to witness. At least in the West, there's often this illusion of like you spoke to as you developed spiritually, you're like the doctor or EMT that gets to let go on a beach in Hawaii and kind of just check out

because you've evolved. you've evolved to that point. And yet the pain of humanity still remains. And if you're actually connected into your heart, then you cannot feel the suffering of others, which will draw you to being of service. And why I really set out, you know, because I could have named this podcast anything.

I could have created the, you know, what we were going to talk about and like the directions and themes, anything. And yet it had to be this for me because to the degree I believe we truly know our true selves, the more that we're going to be agents for real transformation in the world. And I would love for you to share how you feel the breath is connected to the I-Am state and how this can help us return to our true essence.

Like you said, as love is a biological function of our true self. Yeah, yeah. To reveal that. Well, the breath is such an important component because, you know, the breath delivers the nourishment sustenance we need to function in every inhale and exhale. I've said before, but it's so important to think of it like this, is that when we breathe shallowly,

we tend to identify with the most shallow ideas of ourselves, or we are hiding from the shallowness we haven't faced. When we breathe shallowly, we tend to be drawn to the most shallow decisions, or we get mixed up with people and the theme of shallowness makes us victims to other people's behavior. When we breathe deeply, we start to think deeply. We start to see deeply into ourselves.

We start to feel deeper into experiences. We start to have deeper insights about the experiences of our past, even when we felt like victims of other people's cruelty and shallowness. So when we breathe deeper and really what we're doing is we're bringing more awareness. The breath is always sustaining us. The breath is the life force of our source of divinity. But when we breathe deeper, we're saying, I want to give more attention to that which is sustaining me.

I want to give more attention to the divine because if the divine is sustaining me through the breath, then only the divine is receiving the breath that's giving. So when I am aware of how I'm being sustained by the divine, I tend to be less sustained by the promises of other people. I become less sustained by the conflicts that I say I don't want to be in that I'm secretly fed by because it gives me so many things to process. When we're aware of the breath, we're saying I will be in this world

without having to be lost in the identification of this world, and I become more aware of the fact that I'm here representing divinity on a mission to bring more of that divine essence to the world. And even through the law of one, when I breathe deeply, I plant seeds of awareness in the hearts of everyone around me. And then they pass it on to everyone they know. And so it goes throughout the entire world.

When I breathe deeply, I am teaching the world to take deeper breaths and have greater awareness. And so, and the breath is an interesting thing because the breath is also what survives all of our, degrees of spiritual nonsense, where I go, if I breathe deeply, here's the reward I'm going to get. And the breath just goes in and goes out. And so the breath is always one with the divine, and the more we build a relationship with our breath, the more the relationship with our breath

becomes reflective of the relationships we have with ourselves and other people around us. And so I think it's very interesting that when we look at the conflicts people have in relationships, the same conflicts people have with other people or the same they have with their breath. If there's avoidance with others, there's an avoidance of the breath. If there's depth with others, there's a depth of breath.

And even when you are in the presence of your beloved and their beauty takes your breath away, you just took a deep breath. Or when you're in the awe and wonder of nature, it takes your breath away. And that's a deepening of breath. What's also interesting is when we look at traumas, traumas when you were surprisingly or unsuspectedly victimized by people.

That took your breath away as a moment of disempowerment. So a lot of people spiritually tend to lean on the insight and the excitement of the realization and they stay away from the breathwork because it reminds them of the times in their life when someone took their breath away. We have to go back to that original moment and re-pattern it viscerally by saying I may have had my breath taken away in a moment of unexpected trauma but I'm going to give that breath and power back to myself

and take that trauma and hand it back to the divine and may it heal itself in me and may what I heal in myself heal in other people through the breath I take in deeply. May I be a bigger and better receiver of divinity and may that divinity that I breathe in be breathed out for the liberation of all. So I think it's very interesting to notice

that a deep breath can cleanse you, but our earliest memory of a deep breath is when someone took our power away. So we have to kind of give our self-course corrective experiences. And so everything we can learn about spirituality and this whole journey of redemption can occur through the breath. And even at the point where all the wisdom,

that you've gathered from the universe and built up a spiritual ego, even when that disappears, and you can't actually remember anything you've learned up to this point, the breath still remains. And so, as a fundamental returning to the breath, I will always teach people to love themselves.

And what I'm actually doing is helping to dissolve the barriers that reunite people with the intimacy of their breath. That's the true intention of why I teach self-love. That's a beautiful intention. Thank you. And a fact that you have on people in their life, I think another illusion of the ego in this process is we are under the presumption that when the pieces of the puzzle in our environment fall into alignment,

just how we want them, then we'll be able to realize ourselves, live in alignment with truth, deepen our breath. And there's no doubt that deep, you know, deep nature. for us will, you know, lend to a more regulated nervous system than the middle of a city. And yet if we're always waiting for our environment to reflect back to us, the energy that we want to embody, then we'll never fully arrive there.

And so, you know, why I think become so fond of like non-dual teachings is because it cuts through the illusion of thinking there needs to be more things done for you to realize your true state in this very moment. Absolutely. It's interesting because I've had, you know, my earliest experiences of awakening and self-realization were very non-dual in nature, before I even knew what non-dual was. And when I first started teaching 18 years ago, it was coming out of some incredibly life-changing

awakening experiences where I experienced literally my ego exploding, my past shooting out of my ears, and literally feeling like a near violent level of explosion inside of me and having no sense of self for a long period of time, then I was able to witness that, you know, there are layers of ego, and one ego will dissolve and you think it's gone, but it's just one layer or level, and then it recreates itself, and then you realize, oh, the ego that used to represent so much of my suffering is actually a necessary part of my embodiment

that the divine created the ego to help us embody and express our light. So when I first started teaching, I came out of my awakenings, and I was like, I want to teach the world about awakening. Oh my God, I'm so excited. I started traveling around to different parts of the country where non-dual teachings were very popular.

And I started to intuitively tune into people. and I realized, wow, there's a group over here that's doing way too much work and is way too much in the esoteric. And I have a lot of esoteric experiences, but it feels like I'm at a Star Wars convention. And then I go over here, and it's super non-dual,

and it's super dry, and people are like, there's nothing to do, and I can actually feel people haven't done enough emotional processing, and that feels like a spiritual graveyard, and there's people who are renouncing their ego because they don't like what it's like to be themselves in pain. And that's a bypass.

Yeah. And so then I was talking to my guides one day. And I said to my guides, I said, hey, you know, I see over here there's way too much work, too much processing, too much culture, too much esoteric. And it's being bastardized. And then I see over here, there's not enough emphasis, and it's almost like we're hiding in this concept. Like, there's no one here speaking. as I speak, you know, and that kind of misstep. And I said, how do I help bring it all together?

And that's when the universe birth through me, whatever rises, love that. That it's the love that actually unites both aspects of ourselves. It's the love that integrates the mystic. It's the love that takes the absolute reality of quantum reality, but kind of softens it into our human experience. And it's almost like one side of our brain, is a mystic and one side of our brain is, you know, in this other, almost this scientific level of spirituality, dry.

And love is what awakens the midpoint, the corpus callosum, that brings both sides of your brain into harmony or interdependence. And when you awaken in samadhi, both sides of your brain are in a state of interdependence. And so I started to notice, well, this side of, has some of it and this side has some of it. And if I'm going to teach love, I can help bring it together because non-dual certainly is relevant for certain aspects of the journey. But if you stay too long in non-dual, it's the same thing as over here. Mysticism definitely has something

going on, but if you stay too long, if you're the high school kid that drives your car around the middle school campus, even the middle schoolers like, what are they doing? Didn't they graduate? Aren't they in high school? Why are they trying to talk to us? This is weird. So when we bring it together, what I found is love is what heals the traumas. Love is what reunites you with the breath. Love is what takes you through and beyond the mystical Burning Man Festival.

And love is what takes you through non-dual experiences, but also takes you beyond the attachment to those experiences. It takes you into levels of enlightenment and actually takes you beyond enlightenment. and takes you into the love, the passion, right, what Rumi will talk about, the absolute overflowing nectar of bliss, but without an attachment to it, the ability to live in this body and be of service to beings, to see the divine in a human being without being mesmerized by their potential and not confusing with reality, and to see someone who's acting from pain, but wanting healing for victims and predators equally, only love can do this.

So I started to see, I want to teach something that's always going to be helpful that will grow and change but will never be out of style. And that's what struck me was I would sit in front of audiences going, there are these people waiting for enlightenment or self-realization and they're avoiding their pain. They're thinking when they wake up, the reward of samadhi will rescue them from the punishment of their conditioning. And over here, it was a different game. And so I thought love is going to end this game.

And that's when we start to come into a reality with unconditional love, that love is so real. Love is so wise. And love is so transcendent and present. Love will outsize. smart, any complication, and it's so simple. And when I've had experiences,

and I can talk about non-dual awakening. I can also talk about being beamed up onto a lightship and meeting Kuanian, who's a real being, and standing in the presence of Kuanian, who looks almost identical to her statues, but she has, like, green-blue-ish skin. She's actually an alien princess. And I was as far away from Kuanian on a spaceship

in what's called an interdimensional portal, which means you're in a space between time on a ship. And she was looking at me with her eyes half open. And this is as far as we were, and she literally just did this like she bowed, but this is as far as she moved. She's tilted her head. And when she tilted her head,

every cell of my body exploded into a level of love. I could only try to describe. And I realized these beings live between, dimensions, because if they stepped foot on this planet, it would explode. That's the level of consciousness. And it completely, love will change all of us, and we're all preparing for that love to change us through the inner work we're doing. And these, what we're describing and talking about are just some of the stages that we all outgrow. We all outgrow the spiritual ego. We all outgrow the culture, the counterculture, just as much as we all

all outgrow our middle school tendencies and our high school patterns, hopefully. We all outgrow this, and we're living on a time in this planet where the world is saying, we need more people shining their light. Please outgrow this shit you're consumed in, because the time is now, and love is what helps us outgrow this. I find so much alignment in what you just shared in my own desire for my own path. Srinasar Gatada Maharaj says that love tells me I am everything. That's right. Wisdom tells me I'm nothing and between the two my life flows.

That's right. And it really does feel like those two forces are what refine us to become self-realized. And I have always seen the lack oftentimes in both camps of the spiritual communities where there's the growing up and there's the waking up. There's the developmental and the fruitional. And in the West, we often see freedom as the absence of limitations. where in the East, it's more understood kind of you find freedom through a profound disidentification with any content, good or bad.

Right. And I've just saw in so much value in both and how integrated we need to be able to look at our stuff and excavate the shadow material and not just hang out there our whole life as there is a never-ending amount of unconscious material we could bring to the light on behalf of ourselves or the humanity at large. and at the same time if we just stay in this this non-dual awareness and disidentifying from anything good or bad

we often see that in cults or gurus where there is that level of realization on that front without evening out without equalizing their own shadow material then it will have profound implications on destructive relationships, alcohol abuse, a bunch of weird sexual stuff, which usually always happens.

And so, yeah, it's just really important, I feel like, to bring this integration of both in the evolved, matured, spiritual journey to be able to look at both and to bring that sincerity upon both, for sure. I agree. You know, it's interesting when the harsh irony of in communities where the leaders,

where the leader has supposedly absolutely no ego, well, let's just look at the behavior. Let's look at that no ego. And, you know, there are experiences where your ego will seem to disappear and you think I'm beyond the ego and I've had those experiences where I exploded and it disappeared and I was floating in a state

and really I was in a state where consciousness had expanded in me and, you know, a snake has shed a layer of skin and a new one hasn't been grown. So I was just in the processing of growing a new level of ego, which every time it comes back, it comes back usually more integrated, and there will sometimes be some patterns to look at it if they arise. But the whole importance is to integrate your ego.

To think you don't have an ego is just to have an ego that denies itself, right? To have an ego that thinks it's bigger than itself. Right? And there's nothing weirder than a superiority complex within your own self that I'm bigger than who I used to be. And it's humbling when life reminds us of what the truth is. And so I think, you know, in today's day and age, and this is certainly what I hope part of my contribution is, aside from representing love and always doing the purest work that I can do, my intention is that it's okay to have an ego and that your ego gets integrated.

Your ego is like a shirt that you just learn to tuck in. And that you don't have to indulge in ego and you don't have to obsess an ego. And you don't have to control and micromanage your ego. That your ego is the part that is helping you to bring the light of your true nature through this form and into the world. Right? If we think of a tapestry of Ganesh, I don't use the name, but I was named by Ram Dass, Ganesh Doss.

And so I was named for, and it was amazing because when he named me, he gave me the honor of a name. He didn't know that the work I do was like I'm the remover of obstacles. And so it was a very auspicious moment that Rommdous and I had. I was named Ganesh, and I have a tapestry at home of Ganesh. And if you look at it, you have the elephant-faced Ganesh as one of the aspects of the divine. And you have this small mouse next to Ganesh with his hands in the pradesh. prayer position facing Ganesh. And I think that that actually for me is the most profound part of the tapestry, that the mouse is the human ego that instead of fighting itself or trying to control

itself surrenders to the authority within itself. And that a certain part of awakening, the ego turns towards your light as its master and says, I will serve you. And when your ego lives in service, to the will of divinity within you. And when the will of divinity within you lives in service to the ego, that's when Namaste is born in a human being. And the way that type of human being acts and speaks, and it's not what they say necessarily,

you feel it in every core of your being. When that namaste has happened, we think and move very differently. And you can't manufacture it, It can't be this form of spiritual karaoke where we try to act like everyone or talk like everyone. You cannot make this up. You can feel it. And even when you feel it in another human being, it will change you on contact.

So that for me is the important thing is that it's okay to have an ego. We don't have to micromanage it. We don't have to pretend it's not there. it is like the door in your heart that as it serves you and you serve it becomes an open door to allow the light of divinity to enter this world and that's when the interchange

becomes an outer revolution for the world to benefit from because the mastery is can I allow the light within me to shine so bright that there's no space in my body, it hasn't occupied, and it just billows outside of me to change a world and reflect back to me the change I've come to be. And another way of thinking about it,

which I just, I channeled recently that really touched my heart, was that imagine this world is, and I say imagine, but to me this world is a program created by the universe. It's where we come as souls, to learn how to be spirit guides and archangels for future generations. We go through our own healing journey and we're helping the world ascend

because it's our training as future spirit guides. That's what the world is, the spirit guide training. And within this program, what changes the soul goes through in a body become the changes it carries with them forever? And that's why we come to this planet to go through real change, right? The world might be a fantasy, an optical illusion,

but the change we go through is real and it affects our souls moving forward. Part of the beauty of this world is one level is, can I transform so incredibly that it starts to positively benefit people around me? But then the higher invitation is, can I shine so brightly

that when it's time for me to leave this dream, this program and when I return to heaven I shine so bright in the dream that the heaven I return to has even been transformed as a result of how deeply I return to

who I am. Can I transform the dream so incredibly that even the reality I go home to has been expanded as a result of what I've done as what I've allowed to shine through me? That's an incredible invitation and when we start to really wake up, that's what excites us,

that I'm going to shine my light for the benefit of the world. I don't need to rescue the world and the world doesn't need to rescue me. I'm going to shine my light because the only way to be myself is to be the brightness I am. And can I make the world better

just by being the brightness? And can I return home and see that even heaven has gone through a renovation because of what I allowed to move through me. I find that very exciting, and that's what inspires me every day for the world and for myself. Mike drop. If I was holding.

You could drive. I know, I know. And Mike drop it. I really love, there's so many things in what you just said that really stuck out in terms of like letting the ego turn to that inner authority and allowing it to be the door for the divine will to shine through

and really finding that integration within us is just such a beautiful reminder for the reality that we can embody that. And, you know, I think what you really spoke to is that when you really experience that, when you taste that, it transforms you on contact. Yeah. And I think we really are,

living on a widespread drought where those experiences are made more available for people through all the things that dim our light. And so I would love for you to share it because I do really think that just by you unveiling your light like you're speaking to and becoming that lighthouse, it illuminates the darkness everywhere you go and your presence and whatever you do and say is infused with who you are. And so that's the true transformative quality. is like the fact that you've been transformed and now you're moving in the world and people come to experience that.

And I think the most transformative individuals that I've met have not been people that have said the right thing or done the right thing. It's been a level of purity that they've held within themselves that really inspired me and through my own volition made me decide how I wanted to change

in my own life and reveal that within me too. And I would love for to dive a little bit more into some of those experiences that you've had, you know, where there's been ego dissolution and how, you know, oftentimes this understanding of trauma can be looked at through many different lenses. And I love how I've heard you speak to how the challenges that we can experience in life really can be gifts and how it reveals to us how we can embody the opposite adjective of it. and how judgment can lead to a deeper understanding of acceptance. Sure.

And you go through any negative emotion or experience and see how it reveals to us the antithesis of it. And so they can be great gifts. And so for you, I would love for you to just explore this theme of trauma as a vehicle for our own awakening, maybe through the lens of your own journey in life. Sure. Well, I appreciate the invitation.

You know, if we look at life as an... dark, we're all going to have all experiences, even if we're having unique nuances of those experiences. We're all going to know joy. We're all going to know pain. And often we experience pain as a building block for opening to joy, right? The pressure of pain will eventually lead to the elation of joy. And we're all meant to have all experiences. And through the journey of the ego, each level of ego represents a different reason you believe why things have happened to you. And eventually, you realize, I'm meant to have all experiences. Just like any light being who speaks from a profound place of love has also had to have

the experiences of being less than a light being, because it's only from being less than the light that you learn the importance of your light. The interesting thing to remember, as an aside, is that we think, because we experience things in linear fashion that our past lives are in a linear line. All lifetimes are happening simultaneously. So the idea that, oh, if I had a trauma, I must have done something bad in a past life is just a linear misunderstanding. And it's also very abusive because someone who has been traumatized will, as a trauma response, punish themselves. Traumatize themselves as a way of trying to understand what is not quite mentally understandable.

But we experience trauma because suffering leads to service. Even if we think of it as I heal my trauma and then realize what trauma I healed in myself, I've actually healed on a percentage in all bodies because we're all one. So when I heal in myself, I help make more healed in the world. live in. Even we think of it as being a survivor of trauma and being willing to break the cycle of silence and speak about it and you inspire someone else to dive into their pain versus avoid it. That's a service. Or we learn to speak from a more trauma-informed place of empathy because we realize everyone holds pain. Everyone has had their version of trauma and probably what I perceive

as mean, judgmental, nasty people are people in the throes of their trauma who don't know it or are trying to avoid it. So suffering and service are connected. And actually, the willingness to be in service is what frees you from being absorbed in your trauma. Because there's a survival of your trauma, then there's, I process my trauma,

and then that becomes my new security blanket, my specialness, my whatever. the excuses I use to, oh, I'm not safe enough to make that choice, whatever it's going to be. Service is actually what gets you out of using trauma as a form of identification. And service is where we actually start to see how inconceivably selfless the soul is. That the soul is willing to experience a level of personal trauma to know the world it came to help support. And then we'll heal itself of a trauma that, its own divinity guided itself through just to bust out of a cocoon as a new version of

itself so that that newborn self can liberate so many beings on the planet that's an inconceivable level of selflessness which is why most spiritual people think i must have manifested this why did i create this life doesn't exist in a linear reality we perceive it linearly to organize it so we have experiences but it doesn't happen that way so none of that's even true on any level but it's how we try to cope with what is not mentally rational it is an inconceivable level of love and empathy for the divine to dress up as people to come down to this world to go through traumatic experiences only to liberate the victims and the predators from anything that occurred on this planet. And to know that the depths of pain that exist in this world have been created as a setup

to show the entire world what the light has the power to heal. What we are experiencing is the setup of one of the greatest miracles the world will ever experience. And people will say, why is there so much pain, where is God and all of this, how could there be a loving God in a world like this with trafficking and all the things we could talk about? There is very little awareness of what is being set up, and people will talk about the setup of the collapse of the dollar and the people that run the world.

You think that's a setup? The real setup is the world has been created to look like it's being flushed down the evolutionary toilet. it. So when the light really starts dawning, it can be a big enough miracle to get people's attention and show people what's really at work, who's really at charge. So there is a countdown going on, and it's only Armageddon for people who feed off of darkness. The light is not here to defeat the darkness. The light is rescuing the darkness. Because every atrocious thing the darkness does to a human being is crying out to be freed from a dream.

It can't stop trying to control. This is a rescue mission. And what is being created as a world that looks like it's more divided than ever is setting the stage for the light to show you how powerful it is. And instantly, within, faster than you can blink your eyes, will make this world whole again. And then everyone will remember. And no one will forget.

And the world will have taken its evolutionary leap. And the earth will have fulfilled. its mission at this time in history, which is to manifest heaven on earth, which may not happen tomorrow. We're on the trajectory of this, but the destiny of the earth is to become heaven on earth, which then takes its place as being the heart chakra of the universe. And we are living through the dark days of this realization, and we're living through what I call a divine setup. religion will call it revelation they'll think of it as a rapture and this is all just a setup for the divine to create the world that looks like there's no hope left and then the light awakens and everyone sees and we're turning the corner towards that prophecy and we're all living it out and the more we heal and love ourselves the more we say i will be one of those doors that lets this miracle of a light

change the world for the better and each of us right now have the choice to say yes to that and that's what's so exciting. Is this what you're referring to also when you say there's a great quickening happening at this time in 2024

and the coming years and decades to come? Yes. And by the way I realized I didn't partially answer your question. We'll get to it. About my own personal life, right? Yeah, we'll get to it. We'll get to it. But there is a quickening. There's a quickening of time. There's a quickening because we're moving out of identification with time, right? The fourth dimension time is just what takes us from third dimensional consciousness to the fifth dimension.

And in unity, it's a whole different reality. But things are quickening. But also right now, the revelation of self-interest is quickening. The revelation of greed is quickening. The lies of what people thought was true. You know, it's all quickening. And so it's kind of like, living out a movie on a little bit of a fast forward. And so it's more intense than

destabilizing for people. Do you think it's literally that case? Or is it our ability to observe what's happening because it's in front of our face now? Is that part, it's got to be part of the process too of our perception of its quickening? Absolutely. I think what's happening is that as time speeds up, our awareness expands. And so we're equally becoming more aware of things as a storyline speeds up. Like sometimes if you watch a movie, you can see details by just taking your time. Sometimes if you watch it, if you fast forward, oh, what was that?

And we see things that we didn't normally see. So I think as time speeds up, our awareness expands collectively. But what's kind of interesting about that is individually most people's awareness expand by slowing down and unplugging from the collective. So it's kind of an interesting balance of collectively, things are speeding up,

or maybe we could say our awareness is experiencing, expanded to such a way where it's speeding up time. And we're moving through the progress of things. But in either case, there is a quickening happening. And one of the wisest things that I think we can consider is that in earlier levels of spiritual development, we will all pray for certain outcomes because we think this is the best case scenario.

Like, for example, let's say that there's a tornado coming. And we want it to avoid the city it's heading forward because we don't want people to lose their homes. But what if the tornado decimating a town forces the town to come together and rebuild the town from a deeper state of unity consciousness and it's actually what the town needs

even though it's what no one wants? So I think when we wake up out of our spiritual ego, we have to really humbly ask ourselves, how do we actually know what the highest case scenario is? And can we start actually praying and intending for the highest case scenario and being willing to live it out, even if it means things need to be decimated to be rebuilt on a higher level? Like, it's a really deep, it's a deep conversation and we all have to learn to be ready for things like that. It is deep and nuanced, and it's interesting to be able to hold that possibility and understanding of what might be birthed after a, you know, wildfire or tornado decimating a town. and yet still not be a bystander to atrocities

when we have something to be able to do to stop what's happening. Right. So it's like this unique balance of doing all that we can to truly be in that heart of service and the real world and also know that there may be larger plans at play and we'll see what happens

as we enact in the world that's going to bring the most well-being to people right now. Well, even in my life, I will always, my wife and I both, I will, we will always do everything we can to bring and maintain peace everywhere we go. And if what we're doing doesn't seem to work, then we equally accept what's meant to be. So we don't, I agree with you, we don't stand by and go, well, we are going to try to do what we can for what we perceive to be the highest possibility. And if that's not what is meant to be, we will also be there to help pick up the pieces.

So I think when you're living of service, it's an active energy. It's not a passive energy, right? It's not, and I think sometimes, again, we talk about spiritual ego, you can get stuck in that observer perspective where you're very passive in your life and you're witnessing. You're almost an audience member to the movie of your life instead of remembering you're the main character. And that can be a trap too. So I think it's a very active role of being a participant of being a participant,

of being a helper. A living of service I always like to think is like being a spiritual first responder. Right. It's fun to be a fireman playing cards with your friends in the firehouse. But as soon as that siren goes off, we respond. And so when we are of service, we're spiritual first responders. Or if I think of it like, I'm now a husband. And I love being a husband to my wife. And when I'm with friends, I think of myself like everyone's husband. I mean, I'm always there to help. someone. Someone needs a helping hand. It's not just when I'm at home. It's with anyone. It's a stranger on the street. If someone needs help, I'm there to help them. I'm everyone's friend. I'm everyone's helper. I'm a first responder, and that's how I think of service.

Amazing. So, okay, now let's pick it back up where we left off with the tangent. I forgot I overlooked that. Look at me bypassing. Did Matt Con just bypass? You have a very unique story and you gave a couple examples of some experiences you've had but both through the difficulties and challenges through your youth

and childhood development to like those spiritual experiences of dissolution I would love for you just to share a couple of those big themes you know it's really interesting because I can tell my story of my life

differently based on where I am and my embodiment. Something I will share with you that happened recently that really touched my heart. So I had a tumultuous experience with my family like we all do, and I also had great experiences. My parents both, you know, they loved me and they did everything for me and they idolized me. And I even had a father who,

my father loved me by idolizing me. and it in some ways robbed me of the experience of having the kind of father I wanted but of course we always have the perfect experiences I love my father dearly my mom was amazing and my mom was also could be a complete monster

I think we all have these experiences and every level of awakening I've gone through I can psychoanalyze both of my parents oh my father was a functional alcoholic my mom probably was borderline personality, whatever the case may be. Oh, this and that, and of course my mom's upbringing with her father, God, that guy.

And I can tell you this story from so different perspectives, and I can tell you that it was the greatest training ground of my life for the work I do, which it was. My family was the greatest PhD I've ever earned in awareness. But something struck me a couple months ago. And it wasn't, you know, I talked to my first. guides all the time and it wasn't like a being told me this. It was something I just realized spontaneously. And it changed my life. And it was this energy hit my heart like I've never felt before. And in a single moment, it was one of the sweetest, most powerful moments of forgiveness

where I said, divine mother, heavenly father, please forgive me. for allowing the distraction of my human parents and being so preoccupied with their patterns that I innocently used that pattern to distract myself from knowing my real parents. And in one moment, I realized telling the story of Matt Kahn growing up in Torrance, California, was the story of my earthly life.

but the Christ, which is not religious, it's the light of divinity. The story of my life is, I am the son of the divine father and heavenly mother and was brought to this planet on a mission. And I was given two of the most incredible teachers called my mom and my dad. That's the true story. And I realized focusing on their pain and why they are the way they are, was this innocent distraction from remembering the true story, the true nature of who I am.

And in that moment, I realized my mom and my dad are also souls in the body, like I've always known. They're here on a mission, and we came to learn from one another. And I talked to my parents in heaven, and they have benefited from our life together as I have. And I realized we actually have the same parents. And so all of a sudden, my dad, became my brother.

And my mom is my sister. And we are children of the divine mother and heavenly father. And there's something about the energy of that that completely wiped my heart

completely clean. And what it wiped my heart clean of is all the fancy understanding I had from psychoanalizing my family, my whole life, that in some ways was used to distance myself from the inferiority of their patterns and develop this inner subtle superiority.

And that moment of forgiveness decimated that. And I remembered completely. And the reason why, whether we're on podcasts or when you meet someone on the street, and they said, tell me about yourself, it's always the divine asking you to tell your story because how you tell the story is how you tell the story is how you acknowledge which level of truth

you're in association with. And every time I've ever been asked in an interview or on the plane, tell me about yourself, tell me about your family, tell me your story. I've always talked about it. I'm at Macon. I grew up in Tours California.

I had this mom and dad, oh, God, you're going to love this story. They're a piece of work. And I didn't even realize I was telling the most insightful dream. I was in the most well-adjusted dream. I was in the most well-adjusted illusion. The real story is that I am the son of the divine mother and heavenly father.

And I can feel it right now, as I say this to every cell of my body is whole, is cleansed, and it's what for me it means to be reborn, which is not religious, it's spiritual. being reborn as the light of the universe, which they call Christos or the Christ. And I remember about a year and a half ago I started going through this process, because I've had experiences where I remember past lives. And I remember parts of my life. And I've had past lives about this, I was that. And then there was this thing that happened to me where I reached a level of consciousness spontaneously, where I realized remembering my past lives was a different dream.

And it felt like I was instantly reborn and it was as if I was living my first and only dream. And I felt reborn. And I felt pure and I felt like I had no past. But it wasn't until I had the realization I just shared with you. And I forgave myself, not like I did something wrong, but I forgave myself for the innocence

of using my ability to gather so much insight about my family as such a simple distraction. Those are just my earthly chaperone. I remember my real parents, my real family, and I remember my mission. And it changed me in such a way that I'm so excited that I have a chance to share that with you. That was so profound. It hits so different when you say that from the embodiment of it versus like we were speaking to earlier, the spiritual thing to say.

Right. When it's not your authentic experience, which it was when you were sharing or your cycle analyzing your parents. in the past perhaps. There's this quote from your book actually, of your books, that I think is really in alignment with this theme of forgiveness. And I think the universe always has a plan.

Forgiveness is not a way of justifying cruel behavior. It is a way of refusing to store someone else's unhappiness in your cellular body as memories of mistreatment. Forgiveness is not a passive submission, but an active form of liberation and action. Yes.

That's beautiful. Thank you. I love it. I remember that when you say it. It's funny, I think about what I've written and I remember virtually nothing. How you read it, I'm like, oh, I like that. And it hears that I wrote it, right? So funny.

Okay, so the idea that when someone hurts us, they're storing, they're trying to separate from their pain by storing it in our bodies. And when we forgive, we're saying, may this trauma stored in me be sent back as healing for their journey. And it's not reward and punishment. It's may they be healed so that no one else may be hurt. And universe, I with my free will, am nominating this person to go to the front of the line of healing because we need to make sure no one else is harmed by their behavior. And so when we forgive, we're saying, I'm not willing to allow you to store your unprocessed pain in my life.

body, which keeps me spiraling in victimhood and changing my point of attraction and causing me to perceive safe people who are really maybe not good for me, I'm willing to say, and this is how I've always seen forgiveness, someone who stores their pain in my body is saying, I need help and I don't know how to ask for help. And they're doing it towards a being that is of such a vibrational level of brightness, that this is the person who over a period of time is more likely to forgive than to turn the energy stored in their body into creating another predator. That based on my pain, I'm going to take another other people and I'm going to continue the cycle. And it's almost as if, and it doesn't make any sense, but it doesn't need to because love,

you know, resolves at all. that the people who stored pain in my body were crying out for help and didn't know how behind their wall of pride to ask for the help they needed. They stored their pain in my body. I became aware of the pain in their body as a cry for help.

And I say, divine, I nominate this person to be forgiven and fast-track through their healing so no one else can be hurt again. Their soul is begging for the redemption. their ego can't even face, and I complete that mission for them. They say, please, God, return me to the light, so I don't have to hurt anyone,

but I don't know how to stop hurting myself and other people because I'm so addicted to this pattern. They take it out on me, they store it in my body, and I say, I know how to help you, brother. I know how to help you, sister, and I help my brothers and my sisters find the light that they don't know they need. That is not the kind of forgiveness.

as people think forgiveness is. Forgiveness isn't, let me forgive, and hopefully I feel better. And forgiveness isn't, it's okay, someone hurt me. It's not okay that anyone hurt me. And it's so not okay that I will make it my life mission to make sure that they are fast-tracked through their remembrance of light so that they never have a chance to hurt themselves or anyone else again. That's a very different kind of energy.

And it's one that helps us advocate for ourselves. It helps to have compassion for other. people without making harm okay on any level. There's a certain balance to this. And we can feel the midpoint of this. It's forgiveness when it hits us properly is very empowering. And it's not to harm someone. It's not, ooh, I hope their healing journey is hard so they can be because the truth is.

There are people in this world that have been hurt. A lot of us have been hurt. We all have memories of being hurt. And when your pain is doing the talking or the thinking, you think, I can't wait for the day where the person that harmed me gets what's coming to them. The truth is, you won't, in your soul, not as your ego, only as your ego would you want that. As your soul, you wouldn't be able to even withstand someone else going. through what you've gone through because we're one.

It would just be a revisiting of your own trauma. And so the greatest justice there is in the universe is I pray that people that have harmed me who harmed themselves and harmed others can be brought through the healing journey that they're avoiding by hurting themselves and others so that they are so aware of the light that they never have to hurt themselves or others again

and may any type of predatory behavior birth a desire for someone to be of greater service to the world we live in. That's when the light is really moving through us and that we are wanting wellness for all. We are wanting justice for all. And we're not looking at it through reward and punishment. We're not looking at it through fairness.

Fairness is that everyone deserves to heal and everyone deserves to know how powerful their ability to help can be for others. And that's the world that we are continuing to see be created. And the more the light shines and the more miracles appear in this planet, the more that type of spiritual renaissance comes to life.

I love and what you just shared in that quote also, how forgiveness not being that passive, of submissive energy, but in active form, really a liberation of, you know, not drinking poison, thinking other people are going to die, you know. And I think there's the balance where our personality structure will often need time and space from the people who have heard us to be able to. 100% acknowledge how it served and the gift in it all and everything. And so with that understanding, how are boundaries an act of self-love?

I love that question. Well, I think boundaries can be perceived a couple different ways, right? Sometimes boundaries, we think of it like, you know, I'm going to create a boundary because I don't like the way you're treating me, which is valid, right? If someone's talking down to you and you say, hey, the way you're talking to me is really kind of not feeling good in my body and they don't take, and they don't hear it, they keep continuing, there are going to be times where you say, you know, I need to excuse myself maybe, maybe, you know, maybe I can talk to you later, maybe next lifetime.

How about we hook up five lifetimes for a minute? Maybe that I'll be good. But really, you know, what I think of boundaries is a deeper invitation because the ego that feeds itself unspecialness will use boundaries like a form of karate. Like someone takes one karate class and they're like looking for someone to throw a kick. Like, oh, I can't wait to go on horse dance. and I can't wait to block or whatever and do some whatever. But, you know, forgive, or not forgiveness, boundaries.

Boundaries, I think, can be thought of in a very humble way. So boundaries let us know when what energy we're giving is starting to deplete the energy we need for our own well-being. Like, you know, I'm driving on this trip. I think it's my time to go to the gas station refill. And maybe that's some alone time, some spaciousness, some presence. and boundaries is really the first sign of it is hey I think I'm getting to that point where I'm either exhausted, tired,

or I have little to give and I need to start replenishing myself. I think life is telling me this interaction is it's time for me to go focus on self-care. And then at deeper level, the boundary is, I'm going to create a boundary and take space from this person because I'm being aware of what version of myself is coming to the surface. And if it's less than my highest integrity, I'm going to remove myself from the situation

because I only want to demonstrate my highest ideals, ethics, integrity. So I'm noticing, like, if I'm at a family function, and this doesn't happen as much anymore, if I'm at a family function, I'm starting to feel impatient, doing a lot of listening. people aren't asking me a lot of questions. People are starting to annoy me.

Their energy is starting to kind of affect me. That means that I've spent enough time in an environment where I'm aware that my level of conduct is starting to lower. So I'm going to create a boundary to give myself this self-care that I need so that whenever I'm around other people, I do my best to represent my highest ethics and values because that's my service of what I want to demonstrate to the world. the world is a game of follow the leader.

So what I demonstrate is what I hope for the world to reflect back to me. And if I notice that I'm not able to hold that space, I might get triggered, I might get agitated, then what do I need in the name of self-care? What do I need that I don't have to rely on other people to give me? What do I need? Probably space, probably alone time, maybe time to write in my journal, maybe take a walk in nature. So can I give myself what I need? you know there there is a reality to i need boundaries from people who act inappropriately but it's not

as often as people think most of the time boundary is like children who want to keep playing the teacher knows it's time for nap time and the kids don't want to nap even though they need it they want to keep playing and so boundaries are i give myself the rest that i need so that i can always be the greatest version of myself in the presence of other people, and I always have the ability to receive the gifts that other people are demonstrating to me in full awareness or consciousness. So boundaries are really about making sure

that a life of desire is balanced with the importance of self-care. It's not always the spiritual karate against narcissists. There aren't that many narcissists in this planet. everyone's waking up in different ways, but it's actually about making sure that I'm always advocating for what I need and not getting lost in my interactions and expectations of others.

That's beautiful. I think it's such a good frame for, you know, I sometimes say that, like, we don't just need self-love, but to realize our self is love. I love that. And I think you're speaking to really the importance of

the self that does need space to have the self-care to acknowledge where you've overextended or the intolerance of the people around you or it's just going to negatively affect you in your ability to live in your own overall well-being and cultivating at the same time a beautiful tolerance and patience I don't think tolerance is quite the right word

but cultivating a beautiful patience and the eyes of compassion and understanding to be able to be in the presence of somebody who has pain, who is through their actions displaying that pain in a myriad of different ways that can manifest and to still see through to the truth of who someone is. And that is really beautiful.

That's a truly graceful individual. And I really love the energy of grace. And I feel that from you. and I would love for you to reflect on grace and cultivating the eyes of compassion and understanding. I love that. So, okay, so what comes to me, what was coming to me when you were talking

and I just love this conversation so much, is that the misstep people have, is they go, if I realize that I'm the divine, whether I have had that realization or I read that in a book and I just kind of took that on, if I'm the divine, shouldn't my energy be infinite? I don't need boundaries.

And that's an ego trip. That's a huge ego trip. Because the divine is staying true to itself as a person. So even though you are a being that is connected to infinite energy, you know, you are still, the body is still a vehicle that is using energy, depleting itself, energy needs to be refilled because that's what creates the humility along with the transcendence. Humility and transcendence together creates an energy I call grace. But just as an analogy, we're talking about boundaries before,

you know, we think of it as like, oh, each human experience we have is a certain expenditure of energy. So the energy is like a bank account. And the expenditure of that energy is like writing a check. And if you write a check for less, for more than an amount you have in your account, your account goes negative. So one of the reasons people are negative is that their ego wants to be and benefit from a moment that they don't have the funds in their account to cover. I love that. And so when we become grace, we are being the divine, we are infinite, we are eternal, but we are also respecting the experience of being in the physical body,

and we're able to keep a balanced checkbook. Because again, if you look at the world and you think it's too much of an illusion, you're not going to respect all of the nuances. Like, oh, I don't keep my account in the positive because this world's an illusion and money's not real. But see, that's like, and then we're like overreaching. Then we're like missing the point of being here. Like, if you're at Disneyland and you go, that's not really Mickey Mouse, that's just a 17-year-old dressed in a costume. But you're in the magical kingdom.

You're in the park, right? You're here. So I think grace is where we say, I'm fully aware that I am an infinite eternal being. I also respect that I'm having an experience of being in a body where experiences are temporary, what begins is only beginning to end, and I am an infinite being learning to be mindful with my energy

based on how it ebbs and flows. And to be true to the fact that I may not always be in a place for certain experiences or certain experiences are better to have later than now. And can I start to notice the difference between honoring my ego and its desires and not ignoring them, but also knowing how I balance that with self-care. You know, one of the differences between adults and children is that adults know what they need and the difference between a need and a want, and children think their wants

are their needs. And so when we are grace, we have woken up, we are always, growing up as we are waking up, and we are willing to honor the temporal experience of body as a celebration of the eternal being within it. We have both sides balance. We're not too much this, we're not too much that, and we're not oversimplifying it, going, oh, I'm the divine, I should be able to handle everything, you know, fine, I'll adapt a thousand cats, put them in my house. I'm the divine. I can do it all. You know, that's where the ego is kind of impersonating divinity. So part of the mesmerizing balance is that the divine will create what seems like limitations

only to have structure within lives because structure creates focus and it creates balance. And so we're these infinite beings, but so infinite that we can come. commit to the structure of being in body and world so that there's a framework and a focus to shining our light and watching our light change form and up-level reality for the experience we're having in this training program. So I think grace is transcendence and humility combined.

Do you think on that token, then do you think like your book says that the universe actually has a plan for you? Do you think you take that literally or do you think that the more that you trust in your path unfolding, the more it's likely to unfold in a way that is pleasant for you? Yeah. Both are true.

I mean, but I've been literally speaking, there is an Akashic Records. What looks like to me, you know, when I've been to the Akashic Records, it looks like the Lincoln Memorial when you walk up these steps. And it's this incredible library. This is how it looks to me. Incredible library of all these books. you go to the Akasha records and it's interesting there's very specific

formality like I was met by this being in this Gregorian monk robe with this hood covering his face are these in like spontaneous experiences or meditative moments? Both okay but like I will sometimes I just like will sit here and then I'm there

like an astral projection where sometimes I'm in meditation and I go there it's both and I met this being with this hooded robe and he didn't speak. But I intuitively knew, oh, this is the gatekeeper. And you know, you just go with it.

Okay, it's a gatekeeper. And the energy is so definitive that it just strikes you as truth. And you're guided through the Akasha records like a library. And, you know, people think there's going to go to the Akasha records are pulling books off the shelves. You don't touch books. The gatekeeper touches books, pulls it off the shelf, opens up a book of your lifetime. And when you sign off on contracts, you put your hand over the book and an energy comes, a golden light comes through and signs off on things.

It's a very specific process. But there's a book of every soul, and every chapter is like a different incarnation. And there are things about our lives that are set up ahead of time, predetermination. And I believe that part of the nuances, the reason we have intuition, is because this is not the first time

we've done this specific lifetime. I call it meta-incarnation. where you come back to this, like if I came back as MacCon, but I wanted to experience it with a slightly different perspective. So intuition is remembering how many times I've done this and knowing what's about to happen and choosing differently. And so free will is I can choose how to see a moment and I can respond vibrationalally from a different perspective,

which will give me a different experience of what's going to happen. Because the universe knows you can have these milestones of things that are meant to happen, but how you experience it is solely determined by how you respond, which is based on your level of awareness. So there is, when I say the universe has a plan, there is literally a plan, and there are infinite versions of that plan based on how we respond and perceive those moments. So those two things that you just said feel vastly different to me. Yes.

The fact that the universe is a plan versus there are infinite amount of plans that change based of what you can respond to through your own free will and not this deterministic kind of route. I totally get that and it's absolutely somehow both of those exist in a

quantum reality that is so inconceivable to perceive. And I think because, and I appreciate you saying this, I think when we always want to choose which one it is, it's

Either it's all up to me and makes me feel like I have some sort of power or I have nothing to do with this. And I don't even need to be here, which is kind of more of a defeatist point of view. But the universe is so complex. And I think what is so beautiful about this is it is so inconceivably complex that one of the ways that we tend to cope with this is by oversimplifying things. but it is so complex and such a the tapestry is so beautiful is so unimaginable like

to conceive of what the divine created is so outrageously inconceivable but I think what what bears to be shared or what I feel inspired to share is no matter how you choose to look at this what I think is important is our decisions matter

and our decisions truly shape the experiences that we have and it's like sitting in a movie theater where the way we look at the screen determines whether it's a animated feature from Pixar or a psychological thriller and I think that there's an importance that each of us play in our lives and I think the universe does have a specific plan. I think it does get very specific. I don't think it's sometimes as specific as people think.

I think there are milestones of experience we are all meant to go through. I know for a fact there are infinite dimensions, parallel dimensions, that can't be counted or perceived. And even if we were to think of it as there's one lifetime, in infinite dimensions, and if you were to change dimensions, you'd call that a past lifetime or a different lifetime. So however you want to perceive it.

I think the question is, what is the wisdom people are embracing and is it bringing them to be excited about their choices and growing into making different choices and how those choices can affect other people's choices? As long as it brings us in that direction, you know, we can see it however we're going to see it. If we value love, if we value compassion, that's what's important.

But I agree with you. It is inconceivable to say there are things that are going to happen and you have the ability to interact with this and to change your experience of it. It seems like those are two different things. And yet, right? What was the Nisar Gadada quote? it's the same thing.

Love and wisdom. Yeah. Love says I'm, right? Wisdom says I'm nothing. Wisdom says and everything between these two points. My life unfolds. It's almost the same thing. It is the same thing.

Yeah. And it's the play. It's the play. It's the balance. It's the relationship between waves and the ocean. It's a beauty too vast to be. understood with concepts. And yet we use concepts

to bring people into the beauty of the ocean. Yeah. Ultimately, words fail us. And the poetic explanations seem to encompass more of the possibility of the truth often. Yeah. And we always want to understand things logically, right? Intellectually, overly so.

I feel like in the state of age, so. Which, by the way, I think is beautiful because I think it's kind of like musicians trying to reach perfect notes or octaves in a song. And even if we never achieve that, if we never tried, we'd never have music. Absolutely. So I love the questions. I would never want people to stop asking questions.

And I think we should never stop trying to put the truth into words. Because that's what births the melody of this transmission. And this is the art we're creating. Like right now, our discussion is art. This exchange is artful. And we are weaving a tapestry of artistry. And everyone who is a part of this together, we are all in celebration of divine art.

And so may we never stop putting it into words, may we never stop asking questions, may we never stop being curious. May we always discover new melodies to sing together. Beautiful. Can I ask you a little bit more about mystical experiences? Yeah. Because sometimes if people haven't had the experience of like an out-of-body experience

or where every cell in their body is filled with bliss, which is a real thing that I've experienced that unless I experienced, I wouldn't be able to like wrap my head around what that means. Like it's an experience that goes beyond our linguistic capacity. Now what do you think are the reality between some of these mystical experiences that you've had with like with different beings, with guides, with the Akashic field, a lot of these things that I think a healthy level of skepticism is as good because you're not naively accepting what somebody else is saying.

but you're also not discarding it without it being grounded in reality too. So what do you think are the possibilities of you and your previous mystical experiences having some sort of mental recreation of certain things? Or like, I guess, how do you ground the reality of things actually happening when you're speaking to beings, guys, et cetera? Well, it's an interesting question. I love this. You know, from the beginning of my spiritual experience,

I was always skeptical. Part of me was always skeptical, and I thought it was healthy. Because I would never want to be a part of this industry or do this work unless I was really doing it for real, because I have such respect for people's time and safety and wounds. And when I first got into this work, I had these experiences and I'd meet, you know, ascendant masters and archangels. Even as I'm talking to them, I'd be like, really? Really? Really Melchiza deck? looking like Gandalf the wizard, really, really? And saying things like my son by

tomorrow's time, oh, tomorrow's time, who talks like that? Really? Melchizedek. I've talked like this to them. And it's hilarious. And I did because I wanted to see what the reaction would be. And I was afraid that I was making it up.

To be perfectly honest, I thought I was making up. And I've had so many experiences that I never could have imagined ahead of time. I never have concocted. I've had experiences that are so mind-blowingly out of my paradigm

of to think that I'm making this up. But here's the answer. And this is what I've always focused on. When I started having experiences with my guides, what allowed me to trust it was that they always carried

the vibration of love that I felt when I was eight years old and I left my body and I went to what I called the garden and that's when I went to heaven. I went to heaven and I met what I now know was Jesus and it was an out of body experience

and I fell back in my body and it's one of the biggest moments that began this journey. I can't believe I almost didn't ask you about this stuff. I know, okay, we got some stuff down packet. Oh, you know, when I was eight, I meant Jesus, you know. When I met you're Christ in the garden? It was just, just, you know,

he was before my bar mitzvah. And so, I always had the experience of this garden, this heavenly garden, and it always felt like a love beyond anything I've ever experienced my parents. And so because the guides always had this energy of love, I could trust it. And they always said to me, they said to me, don't be as mesmerized with what we say, always pay attention to how we act and embody it. So I would hear what the, and I would ask my guide's questions all day. Like I have, one of the benefits when you start having these connections as you have to remember ask questions.

And I would ask the same questions every day. I would just barrage them with questions. And it would always be the same. I've never gotten an answer that wasn't loving. No matter what it was, there's never been any ounce of vindictiveness, no duality, no ego, just pure love. And when I would meet with different guides, No Kizadek, Jesus, Mother Mary, Quania, and all these people.

And I got onto it early on, like I got on. And these are aspects of divinity and I'm the divine and these are. In some way, aspects of yourself. Archotypes. Well, I can tell you a story about that. And so, but what I paid attention to was how do they treat me? Always in the highest level of like spiritual royalty for all beings without blowing smoke up my ass. Like they weren't just, oh, you are the chosen one.

No one else is. Only you. Finally. I mean. And so they were very loving. That was the first thing I paid attention to. The second thing I've always paid attention to is, and this is how I really, this is something really important to me, because a lot of us have really big experiences. The most important thing is not how big is your experience. What's different about you after the experience? How did it affect you? Qualitatively. Did it make you more loving? Are you more patient? Are you more compassionate? So there

a lot of people who have these really interesting experiences, whether plant medicine induced or naturally, and I've never really done plant medicine, what I look at is not, wow, that was so cool that I met Kuan Yin, and I could tell this cool story. What is the fruit? What does it matter to how I behave in this body? What became more important as a result of that? What became less important? And that's what I think is the greatest thing to say is whether people are having experiences that were naturally manifested or mentally constructed.

It doesn't really matter. All that matters to me is what's different about you. Like, you know, people will tell me stories about their awakening, and I think they're incredible stories, and I love hearing awakening stories. And then I say, and what has become different about you and how you are with your family and people around? you than before. What's the difference? That's what I'm interested in is the, as you say, the fruit, the growth, the change. And so I could say very easily that I could take all of my mystical experiences, including one I'm about to share with you. And I could give it back to the divine if that meant that I bared greater fruit of embodiment. I'm not attached to my experiences. I'm only

grateful that it brought different versions of me to the surface, and it allows me to demonstrate and be the embodiment. Like, the way I treat my audience, the way I am with human beings, whether someone knows who I am or not, is the way my guides talk to me. And I learned how to deliver the light of divinity by how my guides delivered it to me. And they would teach me things about quantum reality that were super awesome. But what I was always paying attention to is, how do the they treat me? How are they talking to me? If I ask a bunch of questions, how do they respond? And it's always been, that's always been the study. And for me, it's always been about embodiment. And that's, that's something that is so core to me. And I think it's the, one of the most important

things we'll ever learn along the path. But as a story I was going to tell you before. Yeah, just before you jump to that quickly, you know, I think that discernment, too, of what part of you, is it unlocking versus what part of it, what part of you is it potentially feeding? Yes. Whether the aspects of yourself or real beings you're connecting to, if they're talking to you about how you're the chosen one, and it's, you know, potentially just your lower self feeding your own narcissism, right? Right.

And because it feels loving, you think that this is a transformative experience, and yet in ways you're not fully aware, it's actually putting you deeper into ignorance. Right. And what's interesting about that, too, and I think this is where the misunderstanding is. There are people that have experiences where loving presence will say you are the chosen one. The misunderstanding, well, by the way, that's true.

Like the wisdom would say if one being on this planet accepted their true nature with every fiber of their being, the entire world would change. The fine print of that teaching is that each and every one of us get to be that chosen one. So, for example, when the beings come and say, you're the chosen one, the ego perceives I'm the chosen one instead of other people being a chosen one.

Each and every one of us get the experience of being chosen to remember we are the one. So there's a very subtle thing with that teaching where, like, for a lot of people when they have the experience, So I'm the chosen one. And then we have the newest cult leader created in the world. When it's I'm the chosen one separate from other people, that's when we get into a big disaster. When it's, oh, it's my unique turn to be the one that helps other ones remember they're the one, that we're all the one.

That the second coming, the second coming of Christhood, Christ consciousness, is, the birth of a conscious world, a community. It is the one as a collective expression of unity, right? The we, the I am expands into the we. And so that I am has to be remembered in every heart. But the common misstep is that I'm the chosen one versus others instead of each of us are that one I am. And that's something I think that gets overlooked.

Yeah, that nuance where it's building the illusion of separation and how you are for yourself and how you act in the world versus there's a real seed of transformation and how you both perceive the world and act and interact with other people in your life are too vastly different experiences. And I think sometimes, often in the plant medicine communities, different spiritual communities, there can be this experience hunting of these, like, the more mystical experience you have and the more fanciful it is, the more evolved you are.

And, you know, it's, again, a distraction on the path taking you away from what's most important. And so, yeah, I'm just glad we had that little, added that little nuance to the conversation. And now I'm super curious to hear what you're going to share with your story. Is this going to be the eight-year-old experience? It's a different one. It's actually one that came a couple years, well, many years after that. And just as an aside about plant medicine, you know, the more vivid the experiences, the more intense, the longer it takes to integrate. And then people, when they're integrating are going through layers of discomfort to integrate that experience.

Then people go, well, I don't want to be uncomfortable. I should go back into plant medicine. And they sometimes, not all the time, they tend to do it. such on a regular basis that it really, just if someone were to take medicine more than they needed to, you know, everything's about balance. So I really just hope that anyone that does any experience, whether it's obsessively meditating or breathwork,

you know, everything has to be done with mindfulness. Anything that is supposedly good for us can always be bad for us. But the experience I had was, okay, so when I was in my early 20s, So when I was eight, I had this out-of-body experience. Then my guides didn't talk to me until I was in my mid-20s, living in my parents' house in my bedroom. I think I was going through a healing of a back injury. And I was at home.

I hurt my back on my job. I was a personal trainer. I was paid to stay at home for like a year and excruciating back pain. And I was getting epidural shots every week. And my guide started talking to me. And they said, you know, you're not who you think you are. And I literally said, who the hell are you?

That's what I said. And we started this conversation, and I started working with my guides. And part of me was like, whoa, this is happening. And then part of me was like, am I making this up? You know? And so I went on this adventure of meeting my guides and having these conversations with the universe. And then, like, I don't know how long it took maybe a year or six months. I don't know the time frame.

I can't remember. they said we want to show you something and I closed my eyes and I was instantly in front of the Akashic Records looked like the Lincoln Memorial and I walked up these stairs and in front of this up the stairs and what looked like the Lincoln

Memorial to me was like this light table this table of all these lights and all of the Ascented Masters I've been working with were standing in front of the table and I walked up and it was kind of like hey like all you and here I am They said, we want to show you something.

And they reached under their chins as if their faces were masks, and they lifted up their masks, and underneath all of them were me. And I gasped. But then, true to myself, I paused, and I said, I don't get it. And they said, we are not only who you are becoming. We are what you have already become. They said those kind of words. We are agents of the future traveling down.

back in time to visit ourselves in the spiritual child. And so there was this moment of, the divine I am is within me. These guides are like archetypes. Like future youth? Future versions of myself. They're all just different archetypes. And that the divine creates itself

as all these different versions of the divine and they all have different, you know, specialties and things. And it's like the divine creates, itself as a multiplicity of avatars to work together and carry out the will of the divine. And so I am, I realized in that moment I am both the experiencer of this body, that is named Matt Con. I am both in connection with this highest, higher wisdom of the universe.

I am living out, I guess, the spiritual childhood of some future version of myself, right? And you realize almost like a holy trinity. And you realize that the mind can't focus on more than one of those at a time. It can't accept that you are a trinity of reality. And so it was an understanding that broke my mind open for the need for understanding. And it was at that moment where understanding just kept pouring in like an open faucet. And this was before I started teaching publicly. but it was an experience of such profound revelation that it wasn't like I walked away and I went,

now I get it. It was just the awe and wonderment of how truly profound and beautiful reality is. And it was such a humbling moment. It wasn't like, oh, who cares what happens in this lifetime? I'm an ascended master, right? Oh, I go to the grocery store. or 13 items or less, I'll bring 15, I'm an Ascendant Master.

And it wasn't like that. It was actually so humbling. And again, what's the most important thing to me? How different it makes me afterwards. And the best part of that experience is it made it so much more enjoyable to just be met. That it wasn't like I walked away from that experience

with this super big, superior complex or thinking I'm an ascended master, it was, I get to experience the beauty of this character. I'm giving the divine, the divine has an opportunity to experience itself as this character, and I get to experience it from that divine awareness. And I get to experience how absolutely beautiful it is to be me and how absolutely incredibly gorgeous everyone else is to me,

even though it all comes with all the growth and the herd and all the things. It made my life a blessing to live. And when I was growing up as a very young kid, very energetically overwhelmed, very shut down and all these things, I didn't know why I was here, and I couldn't wait to get the hell out of here. And all of a sudden, being here was the greatest gift. And what I can say is I have so many experiences that people would go,

whoa, that's so mind-blowing or whatever. The greatest gift is not only the version of myself at births after the experience, but it leaves you without a hunger for more because you realize how much there is to receive. And I realized how much of my life hadn't been received. And so I was literally starting to live a life where I was taking in every breath and moment as if it could be my last.

And I started to feel as if I now am starting to glimpse what it means to live. Beautiful. Those opening experiences and the teaching that ensued eventually after when you, I'm very interested in how, you know, when we want to sound intelligent, we like really focus on how we're expressing ourselves

and we remember all these different things and there's a different level of intelligence where we understand the universe is mental and the deepest part of our mind is so inherently intelligent and we don't have to try to come off as intellectual, but we can tap into the deep intelligence that our body is connected to. And that if we purify our perception,

and we make our perception profound, our expression will be profound. I love that. And it sounds like these experiences have opened up a lot for you to where you can have a topic and you just go for an hour and it's like, this isn't rehearsed, this isn't stuff you previously thought of,

but it's still incredibly profound. And whether you call it a channel, whether you call it just receiving downloads in the moment or whatever it is, you're able to share truth when you're connected to it and perceive it as such. And so I think

that's another fruit that it's buried in your life is being able to share and teach and even in this podcast, having really moments where you're, you just fully feel like you're getting out of your own way. Yeah. And there's a higher intelligence speaking through you. Absolutely. And I'm just curious,

what is that like for you when you're in the moment and you have wisdom that is flowing through you that you haven't previously had cognition of. Right. That is often surprising to you. What is it like in your body? And yeah, I'm just curious. It feels like I'm surfing the biggest tidal wave. And I'm in a moment where I am aware I'm surfing a tidal wave, but I don't want to be too in that awareness because I'm going to probably fall off the board. And I don't want to ignore it because I'm on a tidal wave and I'm here. So it's kind of like the balance of like, you know, I love spirituality. I love spiritual growth. So I'm also, I've always been, I was a fan of spirituality since the day I found out about it because I'd ask my parent deep questions. They go, oh, those are spiritual questions. And I don't know what this is, but I love it. And so I love this field, and I love everything about teaching. And I love the ability to just go on stage and take a teaching and flip it upside down and let's look at it from different perspectives. I just love the art of it. And so when I'm on stage and I'm, and I'm, and

And I'm in the middle of it because I'm in my experience. I'm outside of myself tuning into how the audience is receiving what I'm saying. I'm also witnessing what I'm saying. I'm like three different places at once. And every time I do what I do, it's like the first time I've ever done it, which is how it feels pure to me. It's never like, oh, of course. It's like, oh, my God, I've never said this before.

or I'm teaching myself while I'm teaching to an audience of hundreds and thousands of people. And I'm always doing it in a way that feels fresh and real to me. And even when I tell a joke and I'm funny, that just comes to me. It's all kind of just this flow that I'm in. And even in my personal life, most areas of my life, it's the same flow, even though it's not the same frequency. When I'm in the channel, it's a more intense frequency. But I'm always, like when I'm cooking, I'm always channeling.

I pull ingredients out and I literally just make a dish. And when I'm doing what I do, I feel like I'm writing the biggest tidal wave and it's the biggest thrill ride of my life when I was about, I don't even know. I could say 12, I could say 14. I couldn't even tell you. Probably 14. I remember I was on the school yard I think it was in middle school

so somewhere on that age and I looked up at the sky at recess and I said I would like to witness the miracles of the divine firsthand and I want to spend my life the front row seat watching the miracles

of divinity in action and I forgot about that and one day I was on stage quite the request there young It just kind of happened. But I remember saying this, just like deep aspiration. I've had these moments throughout my life that just, like, I had a moment when I was in fifth grade watching the school choir sing Christmas songs and they did that, do you hear what I hear

song. And I had to politely walk out of the auditorium and walk halfway across the school. And I screamed, burst in the tears and had a religious or a spiritual experience. I didn't know what was happening. I was just afraid of embarrassing myself. So I've had these moments that are so spontaneous. I remember when I was 14. I said this to the sky.

I don't know what the hell is even doing. And I said this. And then I remember years later, I forgot about that. And I was on stage, and I was in the middle of channeling. And I realized, holy shit, I'm actually living that 14-year-old aspiration. I actually get to witness the miracle of divinity in action. and I get a front row seat. Through this body,

what teachings and energy has been channeled, people have been healed by. Were they healed by Matt Kahn? They were healed by the divine within themselves that I held space for that to occur. They were healed by the divine, and I got to experience it. I got to witness it,

and I got to see the glory of light and what it's capable of doing. And I was the space that it seemed to work through in that moment, or at least got to witness, and think I'm a part of it. Whatever the case may be, I got to experience,

I get to experience that. And that is so humbling, especially because it helps you check your math. Like, I am a space through which the divine comes through, and the divine is entering through itself. Matt Kahn is a witness to what the divine is doing, and to say Matt Kahn is doing any of this, are words I couldn't even speak seriously

because I'm so grateful and so awe by the wonder, by the miracles and by the presence of this light that I am but I'm a part of this and I get to be a part of the journey of what happens when this comes through

like with us and in the audience. And I just, I don't even know how to express how grateful I am and how beautiful it is to be able to witness this. And the only way I can say thank you is by serving as a demonstration of what continues to touch me. And how grateful I am that there are platforms like this with you,

that I get to share this, and people get to walk away with more of that light, within themselves. That's my whole intention and hope is that they listen to us and they walk away with more of that light remembrance in their own heart for what it will inspire them to witness in their own lives and to whenever it's time for, you know, this final breath to occur and move out of this dimension, I will say thank you for all the miracles I had the chance to witness and to witness how many beings get to claim that light within themselves.

It's an extraordinary beauty. And all I can say is the more my life is given to the work that I do, the more I am aware that it is the divine working through me, and I would rather someone walk away from an experience with me with more of that light within themselves

than for them to make it about me. So the more, as I keep teaching, I've done this for 18 years, what has become so clear to me recently is I don't mind the popularity I use it as an opportunity to spread these messages. I love that I've touched so many lives. But I want to ensure

that when people walk away from any moment with me, they walk away with their focus on divinity. And sometimes it can be very distracting and very easy to make it about the character. This is about the essence. This is all about the essence. I'm blessed to be a part of this experience. People like the way it transmits through me,

and I'm honored by that. But I want to make sure that when people experience this, they remember the essence. and are not distracted by that. And that is just how the deepening of my work with the divine is going, and it's becoming so clear to me, and I still honor everything.

But when you are in this presence, there is only one truth, there is only one way, and it becomes more clear with every breath. And that's, what I wish for people to receive in their hearts as the love of divinity, to know it exists within themselves. Thank you for the opportunity to pass it along or to reflect that.

But let's make this about the divine. That's what we all need, and that's what the world needs right now, is not more things to work on in ourselves, but to remember this is all about remembering the divine and bringing it to life. This conversation has been really beautiful, man. Thank you. I've been loving the tapestry that's been weaved

throughout all the different themes that we've covered and that reminder at the end to, you know, we can all get caught up in the personality structure of what we're sharing, and you want to keep the reminder on divinity, the essence, coming back to it. And, you know, I think that your work has been a really beautiful light for people

to unveil and remember that within themselves. I did want to ask you, was like kind of like my last thought or question. What is the, if you had to put succinctly, what is the process of clearing your name? Oh. Yeah, I remember,

like I vaguely remember when I talked about clearing your name. I think I was talking about a teaching about, because, you know, I was given a spiritual name. Some people have spiritual names. But what I wanted to do was change how my name felt to me.

When I was younger, I used to be very embarrassed by my name. My mom would say Matthew when I was in trouble. And so if I ever heard my name, I just had, I'm in trouble. Yeah. Oh, my God, send me to prison. Whatever it is, I did it. And my last name I used to be embarrassed by it because I was embarrassed by my parents' behavior sometimes in public.

And so I was given a spiritual name, but I had an intuition not to use it publicly. And instead, what I did was I went on an adventure of healing. like I help guide people through. Like this whole conversation has been talking about. Yeah, exactly. And what I did was I went through and I loved all the different parts of me. I loved me that was marginalized, that felt overlooked, that felt ashamed. And I pulled up every part of me that was hiding or that represented my name or my family.

And I loved those parts, but now based on the experience I told earlier about, I'm not going to let my earthly parents distract me from my divine parents. I believe clearing our name is when your name is no longer a symbol of our hurtful, regrettable past, but is instead the unique frequency that the divine created to enter this world. That's how we clear our name. That's beautiful. And that's such an amazing note to wrap up on and reminder for our audience and for myself to go on that journey and to face what needs to be faced along the journey.

As we are, if we say yes to the journey of clearing our name, we're also saying yes to all the trials and tribulations on the way of getting there. And it's so worth it, though. And yeah, I just want to say thank you so much for showing up with such, like an empty vessel hollow bone to allow what wanted to come through you in this conversation. And I really loved it, man.

Is there any last words that you want to share with our community today or anything that's on your heart before we start to wrap up? I just want to open that space. Well, thank you. I first want to say thank you for this time. It's been incredible.

I really loved our dialogue, and I thank everyone who's joining us on this journey together. And I just, my final words would be what the divine says to every being in every breath, whether it's a language we can hear, the sound of the breath is saying in a nearly inaudible language, I love you. The I, the love, and the you are the holy trinity of the same divine source. So I love and you is divinity, divinity, divinity. Again,

the remembrance of the divine. As we remember the divine, remember, that the I and the you being loved are separate unique aspects of the same one. And so I would always just say exactly what the divine says to every heart, I love you, you are loved, you are love itself. And that if we just all take this journey more gently and more slowly, the greatest possibility is not that we move through our healing journey, is that we do it in a way that is of service to ourselves and others and in a way that helps us remember the divine

and to embody the love that is helping set the stage for this planet to be the location of the greatest miracle that has ever been conceived in reality and it's being done to transform the earth into the heart chakra of the universe and we're all a part of that fulfillment. well said you're good with where is Matt

maybe I should do this more often yeah you should try speaking sometime yeah I'll see how it goes everybody that's tuning in if you've made it now

through over two hour podcast you know I just want a sense of acknowledgement the only way somebody would would really go through a two hour

you know listen to a two hour conversation like this is that they're genuinely on the path They're authentically and sincerely really on this journey of integration and awareness. And just shout out to you. Like, good on you for doing the work. And thank you for tuning into this conversation.

It's our greatest joy. Yes. I can speak for both of us that it's such a joy being able to deep dive like this and connect and meet a new brother and have this be hopefully a source of inspiration and support for you on your journey. So thank you for coming on this journey. And until next time, be well.