Know Thyself - E116 - Nassim Haramein: Exploring Our Holographic Universe, Unified Field Theory & The Illusion of Time

Episode Date: October 1, 2024

Nassim Haramein, a veteran physicist working on one of the most complex and difficult problems in physics, describes his insights into our holographic universe, consciousness, and zero-point energy.He discusses fundamental principles of spacetime and the groundbreaking discovery of zero point energy, revealing the profound implications of these concepts for humanity. Nassim explores the nature of gravity, proposing that understanding and potentially controlling it could revolutionize our technological capabilities. He explains how all information can be contained within a single proton, highlighting the remarkable complexity of our universe. He discusses the potential to tap into the field of universal knowledge, shedding light on how this access could enhance our understanding of existence.Nassim reflects on his own journey of questioning reality, sharing the pivotal moment that transformed his perspective and the courage it took to speak out about his findings.André's Book Recommendations: https://www.knowthyself.one/books___________0:00 Intro 2:05 His Mission: Unifying Physics & Transforming Society3:32 Defining a Holographic Universe 5:41 Spacetime & The Discovery of Zero Point Energy15:02 The Implication of This Work18:00 Understanding & Controlling Gravity 24:00 The Biology of Our Interconnected Nature35:30 The Myth of “Empty Space”39:42 How All Information Fits in a Proton49:15 Tapping Into the Field & Accessing the Knowledge of the Universe1:03:58 Zero Point Energy Was Hidden from the Public1:09:22 'Free Energy' Devices & Why They're Hidden1:15:58 Studying The Nature of Consciousness in Physics1:26:37 Can There Be A Unified Theory of Everything?1:33:55 Growing Up, Questioning Reality1:39:24 The Pivotal Realization that Transformed Him1:45:56 Finding the Courage to Speak Out About This1:51:00 “It’s Bad Science”: Jumping to Conclusions in Quantum Physics2:00:37 Local Realism: If a Tree Falls in the Forest… Does it Make a Sound?2:03:46 When Science & Spirituality Merge2:07:48 How We See Ourselves Will Change2:12:07 The Missing Piece: Getting the Resources to Study This2:19:11 Space Memory & Changing Our Understanding of Time2:23:12 Possibility of Multiverses & Nested Realities2:26:34 The Power of Intuition & Integrating Science/ Spirit2:33:18 Future of Artificial Intelligence & Quantum Computing2:46:02 Take A Closer Look & Get Involved2:55:54 Get Connected to Nassim’s Work2:58:50 Conclusion___________Nassim Haramein is a Swiss born, 35-year veteran physicist working on one of the most complex and difficult problems in physics — Unification Theory (the unification of General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics). Haramein has researched fields of physics, mathematics, geometry, cosmology, quantum mechanics, biology, as well as cultural anthropology and archeology. These studies led to a groundbreaking theory published in scientific papers, and subsequent numerous patented inventions.Nassim's Episode: https://www.nassimharamein.comInternational Space Federation: https://spacefed.comAdvanced Resonance Kinetics: https://www.arkcrystals.comInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/nassim.haramein/___________Know ThyselfInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/knowthyself/Website: https://www.knowthyself.oneClips Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJ4wglCWTJeWQC0exBalgKgListen to all episodes on Audio: Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4FSiemtvZrWesGtO2MqTZ4?si=d389c8dee8fa4026Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/know-thyself/id1633725927André DuqumInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/andreduqum/

It's a really important thing for people to have a realization about the nature of reality. Our body, the biology all around us, have a common cause. There is a fundamental field at the source of creation. I've been working on unifying all this for 35 years, from the scales of the cosmology to the scales of quantum mechanics, which currently is fractured in our physics. And that's a big problem. If you access this all of a sudden, you realize,

the infinite nature of your existence, the incredible potential that you hold, we've called intuition intuition as almost a derogatory word, where in fact, intuition is the most valuable. It's like the universe is talking to you, and are you listening? There's a really bright future for humanity

if we are able to bring this level of information out. Hey everyone, welcome back to know themselves. Our guest today is a physicist and a researcher who's been shaking up the scientific community with his revolutionary theories and ideas ranging on everything from the structure of space time to the very nature of consciousness. His unified field theory work suggests a universe that's fundamentally connected at levels we're only beginning to comprehend. And we'll be exploring the implications that his idea has on human potential, who we

and understanding our place in the cosmos, Nassim Herrmann, it's an honor to have you here. Thank you so much for having me. So great to be here with you. Yeah. Really been looking forward to this for just meeting with you and connecting and eventually doing this podcast for a while. And so let's just dive right in. Right on. Yeah, let's skip the weather conversation.

Yeah, how's the weather, the sport? Yeah. Straight into the structure of space time and the nature of reality. And the nature of reality, exactly. You know, start with the easy stuff. Yeah, yeah, the life step. So I'm curious, just like in your elevator pitch or like trying to give a high level overview of your work to somebody in 30 seconds, how would you explain what you feel like you're here to do on the planet and what your work is really about? Well, that's a big one.

I think it's a really important thing for people to have a realization about the nature of reality. like that coherence and self-organizing systems that we are in, our body, the biology all around us, the structure even of solar systems and galaxies and all this have a common cause, that there is a fundamental field at the source of creation that's producing all the effects we see at the physical level and the biological. level and to unify all this from the scales of the cosmology to the scales of quantum mechanics, which currently is fractured in our physics. And that's a big problem. So I've been working on unifying all this for 35 years. And there's technological applications that come out of it that are

really transformative for a society, a new way of extracting energy, a new way of dealing with gravity and so on. So there's a lot, you know, to unpack there. A lot of your theories refer to reality as a sort of holographic in nature. How do you explain what that is to somebody who's not familiar with that term of like a holographic universe? The idea that every point contains the whole is what I mean by a holographic. So I use it loosely. in the holographic mass solution that I've published in 2012, it's more specific to the way that I am using the equations

to describe a surface to volume ratio, which has been loosely called holographic in physics. There's a thing in physics called the holographic principle, that has to do with the entropy of a black hole. And so without getting too technical, basically it says that the entropy of the black hole is equivalent to one quarter of the information on its surface

that's holographically imprinted on the surface. And the entropy is like the thermal emission, the diffusion of energy of this object. if you'd like. And I showed that this diffusion of the surface of the event horizon of a black hole is actually what gives mass to the proton, that the proton, the nuclear of an atom, is like a mini black hole that's diffusing energy, hawking radiation, and that energy is what we call the mass of the proton but that the internal energy of a proton is much, much higher than the mass we measure.

I'm really looking forward to unpacking how the whole is weaved within the part and how the information is contained from on the level of a proton throughout the whole cosmos. Could you unpack how you're coming at the understanding of what space time is and how it's made up of these little grains or pixels in a way? Right. So let's start with the beginning. But maybe let's do a little parenthesis, just to complete what you were saying. If we do it really naively, the holographic principle appears when you're counting the number of grains in the volume of the proton. And you find that it's equivalent in terms of energy or information as all the other protons in the universe.

so that each proton contains the whole, which is a principle, it's a principle of holography. But let's start from the beginning. When Max Planck started quantum mechanics, he did so because he was giving the task to make a better light bulb. And the light bulbs at the time were burning out too fast.

and he was asked if he could help to make a better one. He was a famous physicist. People thought he could help. And he looked at the theories of the time and they predicted something goofy about the emission of thermodynamic emission or the electromagnetic emission of a heating body. It said that the emissions should have infinite

amount of ultraviolet. It was called the ultraviolet catastrophe. And when we were measuring the ultraviolet of a light bulb in the laboratory, we weren't seeing infinite amount of ultraviolet. So, so Plunk thought, okay, how can I fix this equation? And in fixing it, he added like a fudge factor. Okay, he called H, a constant that became Planck's constant. And basically, your listener needs to know a little bit of quantum mechanics. Basically, these equations are describing an oscillator, a harmonic oscillator, which is usually represented as a spring with a weight,

but the universe doesn't do springs and weights. I mean, it does after it's made the human that makes the spring and the weight. So it's really kind of a bad visual to use, although it's the visual that's taught to students typically when they're learning quantum mechanics, the oscillator is best visualized as a little spinning top, right? That's oscillating. And it's absorbing photons and emitting photons, right?

So he described like the little heat that's coming off the filament of the light as like oscillators. And they constantly put in there, you know, like eventually like imagine you're describing the atom as a little oscillator right and and the constant that he put in there to make it worked so it give the right answer on the spectra of you know light that comes off the filament um it predicted something weird it predicted all the correct values for the different temperatures having different colors of the spectra, right, which is the Planx law.

But, and it got rid of the infinities for the ultraviolet, but it predicted something more than that. It predicted that they would be, you know, at zero Calvin when there's no thermal agitation, there should be no energy. But what the equation predicted is that there's an infinite amount of energy at zero Calvin. And so Plunk called it zero point energy. And that's the... And so basically it said something really weird as well.

It said that the constant he added called H and then eventually H bar, meant that the oscillator doesn't continuously emit electromagnetic field, like thermal radiation, but it does so in packets of energy. So it builds energy and then it release a packet. It builds or it only absorbs packets. You understand?

And so it was saying something that was not in, to him that like they would be packets, you know, and eventually Einstein took these packets, called them photons and described the photoelectric effect, which he won the Nobel Prize for. So these packets or quanta of energy started quantum mechanics. And as I was saying, the equation on top of it said something weird about the, the foundation or the ground state of the electromagnetic field. Instead of saying that at zero Calvin, when everything is frozen and the little oscillator should be frozen and nothing is happening, it should have zero energy.

Instead, it said it had infinite amount of energy like that. There was a bath of infinite amount of energy at the ground state of the electromagnetic field. And so in the paper we just published, we start with that because actually this history of zero point energy is not necessarily well thought and well understood by the scientific community. And the fact that mathematically you cannot remove the zero point energy is not necessarily well understood neither because in the history what we did is. we remove that ground state because they didn't know what to do with an infinite amount of energy. They didn't like that answer. And it's not clear. You know, it was the time of the war.

People were racing to make the atomic bomb. Maybe it was removed on purpose, you know, because maybe we didn't want certain countries to have an idea that there's infinite amount of energy available. and they were trying to create vision at the time and so on of the nuclei of the atom. Maybe that was removed on purpose, but anyway, it was removed. And we showed that that makes quantum mechanically quantum mechanic mathematically inconsistent. Technically it makes the equation commutative when it should be non-commutative. that is the little oscillator is absorbing photons and emitting photons, right?

By removing the zero point energy, it's like you remove the source of energy. If we go back to the spring, if you stop doing this, the spring is going to stop oscillating, right? It has to have a source. So when you remove the zero point energy, it's like you remove the source of the oscillator, you still can do math on the oscillator and get the right answer and all this. But now the oscillator physically is missing the source of energy to make it oscillate. Do you understand? Kind of.

Yeah. Like your car wheel is like an oscillator, right? It's spinning. But you have to put energy in the motor for the wheel to turn. If you remove the energy, right? you could still do the math of a wheel turning as if it didn't need energy, but in the real world, it does, right? So all the oscillators that makes up the atoms,

like the atoms being these little oscillators that are absorbing photons and emitting photons, well, they wouldn't be able to continue if they didn't have this source of energy in these equations. And to remove it is inappropriate. So we demonstrate that in a few. and then we eventually show that that source of energy is actually the source of mass for the atom. So how I want to try to make this as accessible as possible for our listeners. Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm trying to say it simply.

No, I mean, it's it's the most immense task to try to squeeze down decades of research and work into deep quantum mechanics and physics into a, you know, a concise way. So I'm just curious, like in the transition of paradigm of our understanding of the structure of space time, these packets of energy, what's the implication if what the work you're doing is continues to be proven and shown that your theories are true? The implication is that, oh, okay, the source of the material world, like the atoms, the energy that runs the protons, that makes the proton go, is not some miracle energy that we've called the Big Bang, right? Which is about as good as like dogma in religions where they just tell you, well, God made it, which doesn't really tell you what that is God or what is the Big Bang. Like, how did all the energy in the Big Bang arrive? And why is it keeping everything going after it bang, right? Why is it not stopping?

Why is it even accelerating in the universe? Like, you know, there's all, it all of a sudden grounds this into, no, no, there's a source of energy that was found like over 100 years ago, already at the start of quantum mechanics, but that was ignored. that's actually feeding all this reality into existence. It's like continuously feeding because the little oscillator, when we think oscillation, we have a tendency of thinking linearly, right? Like a spring going up and down or a thing oscillating.

But it's oscillating because it's spinning. And so it would have stopped spinning like seconds after the so-called Big Bang if it didn't have a source of energy. So what I'm saying is that the implication is that all of a sudden we realize there's a source of energy that's running this world. And we wrote this math analytically. It's beautiful. It outputs the mass of the atom, but as well it outputs the forces that we measure at the atomic level and at the cosmological level. It predicts gravity and so on.

And so it's actually saying there's only one thing. There's the flow of this energy and this energy that this field is producing all of our reality. And now we're applying it to biophysics and finding like scaling from that fundamental field. You find that it's the energy at the source of biology as well. So in this work, as we continue to unpack this, the various different fundamental constituents and structures of reality. Like, I know since 1999, you've been doing experiments, spinning plasma at high velocities,

and seeing how it could potentially be possible to control gravity and spend space time and, you know, use those curvatures. Yeah. So how does this change our understanding of what gravity is and how we can navigate it, manipulate it? Yeah, it's really important. because, you know, remember, this ground state energy called zero point energy is an electromagnetic ground state.

So it's electromagnetic oscillation that are occurring at the very fine level of the structure of space time. Super fine, like billions of times smaller than the atom is the wavelength of this oscillation. And so it's really high frequency, real high energy. People say, you know, this is something that your listener might.

ask like why am I not feeling it if it's so much energy or you know well you know like the the the microwaves that are running you know your phone uh you know or you know the radio wave in the environment right now you're not feeling neither doesn't mean they're not there right they're clearly there and we use them all the time well this is a field that's like so remote in terms of energy and frequency from our current scale that we don't experience it directly, right? So and so, but we measure it. It's called the Casimir effect. We know it's there. So later on after Plan, long after, you know, even Casimir, which wrote these equations in 47, we were able in laboratory to measure it in 1997. And, you know, we, we were able to measure it.

to show that you can create a little gradient in the zero point energy and get force. So we calculated the gradient of this energy when it's inside like a little structure, like a proton, the nuclei of an atom. If the nuclei of an atom is a little smoothie of that energy, if you'd like. And we calculated the pressure

it would produce, and we got the strong force, we got the color force, we got the forces that we measure in the nuclei of the atom in terms of the pressure of this field onto the atomic structure. And then we calculated that this pressure changes as you move away from the atom and eventually becomes gravity. And so all of a sudden you have a direct relationship between this zero point electromagnetic field and the gravitational field. And we can control electromagnetic fields. So we can create our own little smoothie to create our own little gravitational anomaly or gradient in a region of space.

And that would allow us to control gravity. And we built this whole society because we learned how to control electromagnetic fields. The next step for humanity is to actually learn to control gravitational field, which could, like, free humanity. In what way are you talking about the engineering applications of being able to travel throughout the cosmos? Yeah. You know, if you have gravity control, you're not needing to burn thousands of tons of fuel to, like, get some rocket into orbit. you can actually levitate, you know, a ship right into the atmosphere very rapidly. You could go to Jupiter for the weekend.

I mean, like, it changes fundamentally. And it might sound completely outrageous what I'm telling you right now. But think about a week before the Wright brothers flew the first plane. If you went in their village and told people that in a few, weeks, somebody, the two brothers over there that are making bicycles, they're going to bring you know a few thousand pounds of material up in the air with them on it.

You know, they would have thought you were insane. And actually they would have good support to think that because there was hundreds of papers published in physics in peer review journal showing that it was not possible. That sounded like over unity. that sounded like free energy at the time. The idea that you could push air, right, and fast enough that you could create enough lift

to lift the thing that's making the air circulate sounded like not possible, right? And so there was many papers showing that that was not possible, but then the right brothers did it anyway, right? And so, you know, the idea that we can control gravity and that we can make spaceship that can levitate and go visit our solar system very rapidly

and have access to almost infinite amount of resources and completely transform our society might sound like really out there, you know, currently, but it's really just one invention. And it's an invention that I don't think is actually that hard to make. If you understand where gravity comes from, which current theory doesn't,

meaning Einstein told us gravity is the result of curvature of space time, but then say what space time is, right? What is space time? What is that thing that's curving? And what I'm showing clearly in those papers is that space time is zero point energy. It's the quantum grain that is flowing like a fluid in space time.

Okay, so this is very exciting and I want to keep unpacking this, but just as a sidebar, because it came up, you know, through, and I think it would be good throughout the soul conversation, you know, there's so much overlap between the new novel discovery and scientific thought that's emerging

with the ancient wisdom, tradition, knowledge about human potential and who we are. You know, many have said, we are made in the image and likeness of God. We are vibrational beings that can attune ourselves, different states and frequencies. And I'm just curious,

as somebody who's been for a while at the forefront of disqual, of like new novel thought, what do you feel about if we are connected to the whole, like you said, if it's imprinted in the parts, what do you think is the reality of us being able to attune to these new discoveries, like the Wright brothers perhaps, like new discovery where people thought for thousands of years that it would be completely impossible. And then now we just, it's everyday life, right? And so for somebody who is at the forefront of what may be revolutionary and its implications for integrating into society, what do you think about being able to tune in and attune yourself

to those discoveries before they come in? Well, I think they have a really fundamental philosophical and spiritual meaning these discoveries. That's the thing. It's not just nice physics to unify physics and nice engineering. to make technology, it actually is telling you something very profound about the nature of your existence. It's saying that you're connected to a field of information. That field is fundamental to your existence, that it's nourishing. It's what actually make the coherent process in your body possible. And so that you can attune to this, you know,

this field of information or this field of energy, zero point energy, it was already there in ancient civilization all around the world. They had all kinds of names for it. In the Polynesian Island, it was called mana. There was, you know, chi in certain societies. It was called all kinds of, you know, different ways in different society, but you find it all around the world. They all knew. They all knew there was a field. And later on, even in modern physics, later on, you know,

at the turn of the 19th century and so on, it was called ether. There was ether theory. And Maxwell wrote his equation of electromagnetics with an ether present in his theory.

He was saying the electromagnetic waves were traveling through an ether and so on. And so to know that that is really there and it's the source of the material world and it connects us all because we're all in this field is like profound, right? Because all a sudden you're not isolated anymore. In fact, nothing can be ever isolated because it's always part of this field and you are in constant information transfer with this field. There's a constant emission of photons and absorption of photons going on. Like you're constantly thermodynamically burning, right? Like your carnal engine running at like 100 Fahrenheit, right, for 80 years.

nonstop and if it varies by a few degrees, you're not having a good day, that day, right? And you're absorbing photons, even through your eyes, you're absorbing information through your senses and all this, feeding it back and to realize you're part of this incredible forward feedback structure of space time that you're participating in a collective that's learning, about itself. It really transform your perspective on your existence and your role in the universe. It has profound meaning. And I could say much more about that, but, you know, like generally, that's what it's saying. And that your nature is profound. You know, people think of themselves has one thing, but you're 100 trillion cell, 50 to 100 trillion cell. It's non-trivial complexity.

There's like billions of chemical change occurring every second in your body. You're making a million cells a second to replenish the ones you're losing. It's a dynamic, very energetic thing that you are. And that's only at the cellular level. Each of one of those 100 trillion cells is made of a hundred trillion atoms. Okay. That's at the atomic level. So like 100 trillion multiplied by 100 trillion

is the density of the atomic structure of your existence. That's highly coherent and coordinated to make you. Right? And that's, you know, I mean, I'm getting philosophical. I just want to make sure you're

your listeners understand I'm talking based on very rigorous, you know, analytical, mathematical, and physics equations. So I'm not saying this only in the philosophical sense. Like there's a real true, and I'm writing a biopaper on this right now, biophysics paper on this. Like there's a real true scaling from this fundamental field into your existence

that is the pulse. It's like the fundamental pulse of creation continuously creating this incredible coherency and recreating it every second because we tend to think, oh, we're one thing coherent. And we think of it as like some static thing, like we were put together and we stayed together. But it's nothing static at all. Like in a few days you'll have replaced all your skin and in a few weeks. And in a few weeks, you'll have to replace your bones and your, you know, and your organs and all this. And, you know, in a few months, all of a sudden, and, you know, you've made a new you, right?

And it's like, so you're constantly redoing this incredible coherent behavior. And it's very specific to you. It's not like you and me, we're both humans, but we don't have the same eye. and we don't have the same digits. And we know, you know, nothing is the same, right? We're individual in the oneness of that field because it fractalized to infinity. And in a fractal, every point is the center.

So you're not seeing the same thing I'm seeing when we're looking at this cop. You're seeing that side. I'm seeing this side. So we're feeding different information to the field that coeres us into existence. So the field responds with a little bit different information.

And so that's why I'm a little different than you, right? So to realize that, like, wow, I'm actually creating as I'm feeding into this field. And this field is feeding me back my experience in this world. like to realize I'm part of something that I can engineer, that I can get involved in and transform. I think that's a lot of the spiritual practice that you're talking about. It's learning how to, you know, interact with this field and manipulate it to, like, improve our condition.

Man. It really seems like from the Microsoft, to the macroscopic, the universe is having all these unique perspectives. And just like through Nassim and André experience, like we are unique perspectives of the universe experiencing itself through our eyes. And so every individual, every point in the field is infinitely important. It's giving its own peace to the universe, right, so that it can self-organize into very advanced systems,

very advanced complex systems that were evidence of. So, I mean, from the biological to the energetic level, we see our inherent interconnectedness that is very real. It's not some spiritual, new age, woo-woo, philosophical idea. It's an existential reality of how life operates and reality works. And you see the bees are not on the planet that doesn't have flowers, right? Like it's all interdependent. Nature is completely interdependent.

And we are interdependent. We don't really have a choice. Because I tend to think about this a lot. And to what degree have I realized my own interconnectedness? And in what aspect does my own ego identity structure creates separateness between others, which is the source of so much suffering? And I think we live in a society

where the mythos of separation is so deeply embedded that sees individuals as completely separate individuals and doesn't recognize that interdependency that you were speaking to. Yeah, you could even think of it technically. You know, many of our laws of conservation or laws of thermodynamics starts with this statement within a closed system. And it's useful for engineering, okay, to like close to assume that the system is isolated from everything else in the universe and so that you can calculate.

you know, it's energy and so on. However, if you forgot that you made that closed system artificially, now you have the wrong, your view of the dynamics of the universe are a little bit tweaked, right? Because if you look up isolated system in any physics dictionary, it should start, if it's a good dictionary,

with the first sentence saying, no such thing has ever been found. Right. No system can be completely isolated from gravitational fields, from electromagnetic fields. You can't isolate system. All are parts of a bigger hole in a way. That's right. That's right. And one of those, I guess, presumptions that we kind of just put to the side is our idea of empty space. And I would love because a lot of the work that you're is exploring that empty space isn't actually empty, you know. And our notion of the conventional understanding of space as a smooth. continuum and like this empty space.

I just love that you're challenging it. And so I just want to keep weaving in and out from the philosophical understandings and how this can be practical for people's lives, but then also the science and what you're doing here. So I'm challenging it, but actually I'm not. I actually, it's, I'm just reminding physicists that it was not only predicted, but measured in laboratory and that it's necessary for the foundation of quantum mechanics to be consistent both mathematically and conceptually in physics. You can't have an oscillator that

doesn't have a source. And so this is very straightforward and it doesn't come from me. You know, space is full of electromagnetic fields fluctuating. with infinite amount of energy, or at least with energy all the way to the Planck scale, which means it has, and the Planck scale is so fine that the frequency is very, very high, like if the wavelength is short, then the frequency is very high.

And so it's incredible amount of energy. At the Planck scale, like a centimeter cube of space has enough energy that, if I squish the whole universe into that centimeter cube of space, like to all the stars, all the galaxies, all the black holes, everything into the sun. Imagine how bright that thing would be, okay? It would still be 39 orders of magnitude not dense enough to describe the zero point energy. The zero point energy is 10 to the 93 grams per centimeter cube.

It's a huge density, right? So space is actually extremely dense in electromagnetic fields. And that's not a prediction I made, that that is right from the foundation of quantum mechanics. So how do you, I guess, how do you relate to the empty, the space that is not so empty in between the atoms and ourselves, the space between our galaxies that is super vast? So the error that was made is to ignore that field.

And now all you're left with is the things that were in the field. Now you only have the things. So they're isolated. And now you can't realize that the things you're looking at, that you're talking, that you're calling particles like the protons in the nuclei of the atom or the atom itself or the electron are actually. dynamics of that field. If you don't have the field anymore, then you don't know that what you're looking at is just the dynamics of that field. You see? So now you get confused. You think that you're

dealing with like billiard balls when in fact you're dealing with the field dynamic. And that changes everything. So it really, you know, changes things when you put the field by and it starts to actually make everything makes sense. And I mean make sense mathematically and, you know, it's describing properly what you're measuring, like the mass of proton. The standard model does not describe properly where mass come from, right?

There's a Higgs mechanism, but the Higgs mechanism only predicts 5% of the mass of the proton. 5%. Can you unpack this a little bit more how the information from the whole universe lies within a proton?

Could you explain that? Okay. That gets a little complicated, but I mean... Let's simplify it for us. Yeah. For me as a dumb monkey over here. Yes, well, that's okay.

So there's evidence that... So there's these things that are predicted by Einstein-Field equation that are called warm holes. And it's basically when there's enough energy in a region of space, space time can curve itself into little tube that connects distant areas,

you know, and almost instantaneously. Okay, and these tubes would be plonk-sized tube that connects things. And in quantum physics, There's this thing that we measure in laboratory that particles can be entangled, right? So that if you change the state of this particle over there, this one change instantaneously,

even if it's on the other side of the universe, if it's entangled. And now we're starting to discover that this entanglement that we measured in laboratory, maybe the reason for this entanglement, is that it's connected through warm holes and that the particles might act like mini black holes. So that the hubs are black holes

and they are connected through warm holes like a network, like a neural network where the server, you know, like an internet network, where the server is the little black hole and the cables are the warm holes. And so, strangely, my equation, when I was kind of calculated the number of bits of information, and so in physics there's a relationship between energy mass, E equals MC square, there's as well a relationship between mass or energy and information.

okay so where one plank is a little one bit of information if you'd like and so i was calculating the information transfer that this little black hole proton in the nuclear of the atom which never decays this little oscillator seems to have an infinite source of energy never decays well i was trying to figure out what is its relationship to the rest And when I calculated this, I found that the volume, in terms of little plonk structures, in terms of little bits of information, has all the information of the rest of the universe in it. Okay, because it's connected through the little wormhole to the whole rest of the universe. You're able to calculate the mass of the universe within the single proton.

Within a single proton. and when we use standard equation to calculate the rest of the mass of the universe, we end up with 4.9% the mass of the universe. The rest we have to invent in dark matter and dark energy. 96% of the mass of the universe, we have to put it in as a fudge factor. But in this case, when you do it with the proton like that,

you get the exact density of the universe. You get the exact mass. not needing to do any fudging. You get that. That's mind-blowing. It's mind-blowing because you're studying a teeny little teeny thing inside the atom. Like, it's so small. And you get answers about the nature of the universe.

Can you give us an understanding of how small, like a proton is in terms of... Yeah. So, like I was saying, like, cells are already small because you made a 50 to 100,000 cell. Trillion. A trillion cell. Yeah. that's a lot of cell, right? So they're already small,

and each cell is made at 100 trillion atoms, so that's small, okay? And then if you take an atom and you say, okay, the atom size is the electron cloud, right? Well, if the electron cloud was the size of the dome at the Vatican, then the proton would be the head of a pin in the middle. Okay? So the atom is 99.999% space.

And that space is full of electromagnetic fluctuation. And the little proton in the middle, you can't say it's a billiard ball when you do the physics of it. It's all you can say is that in that region of space, there's a really high energy density, okay, that you're describing as a particle. But it's not like a business.

Right. Right. It's not necessarily physical and how we would describe it. That's right. When you're looking at the physics of physicality, you find that there's no real physical. Yeah, it's not really physical. It's all field interaction. It's all exchange. It's all ratio of exchange of information. And so it's remarkable. It's mind blowing. Like you have, I would have to run you through a lot of equation and we would be. here forever, but there's many moments in these equations when I would run you through, your brain would just splatter on the walls because it's like, whoa, it's so incredible. Like one of the things I may calculate, I figured out this ratio, right, of the scaling from this plonk field, from what I call the plon plasma. So it's a plasma where the particles of the plasma is the plonk size oscillators, right? And I calculated like, so if it's making

warm holes of plank size, connecting thing, then the stuff that's going through the warm holes has to be smaller than the plonk size. So I... How is that even possible, right?

Because is it the plonk size. Then you have to go super luminous, right? The plonk size, they find the speed of the... You have to go... You gotta go super luminous because you're in...

inside the black hole, right? And so I calculated it because now I know the scaling. So I was able to calculate that. So I was able to calculate how fast the information is moving and entangling all the particles. So we say in quantum physics, it's instantaneous the entanglement. But that's just because it's so fucking fast that we can't measure it, right?

So it's actually not instantaneous. It's not. No, and if the universe was connected that way and the refresh rate was at the speed of light, the universe would fall apart because it would take billions of years for information to go from one side of the universe to the other, the states of every particle in the universe

must be known so that all the other particles can be in the appropriate relationship of states. Right? So at the speed of light, it cannot happen. but at the speed, so I calculate that at the speed of the subplank, how fast would a bit of information go from this side of the universe to the other side of the universe? So it has to do with the size of the universe

and the speed of the subplonk as it goes through the network of all the protons, right? So I calculated that and it gave me 10 to the minus 23 seconds to go from one side of the universe, like 0.000-230-0 of a second, right? It's super fast, right? To go across the universe. And that just, okay, this is the part where my brain just got splattered all over the wall.

I recognized that number when I saw that number. It just happens to be exactly how long it takes one proton to do one turn. Damn. For the oscillator to do, every time the oscillator does one turn, the universe has been updated about the state of all the other. One complete spin. One complete spin. All the rest of the oscillators in the universe has been, you know, updated on the state of that.

And so everything is continuously in relationship that way. And it's like you start to see it's like gear ratios. You know, it's like gear structuring the structure of space, but in a completely non-linear way. So I'm curious what you think about this because obviously that's incredibly mind-blowing. And if we're all made of the same thing the universe is made out of, I'm curious about what your thoughts are having access

to non-local information and allowing knowledge to emerge from within us. Like the hermetic principle of Azababsobel, as within, so without. Exactly. It kind of points to this. That all starts to make sense, but very rigorously. You know, when it's no longer philosophy,

when it's rigorous, then it's really giving you all the details, the mechanics on how it works. It's very, very powerful as well for engineering because now you can make, you know, warp drives. You can make energy anywhere you are. Go to Jupiter for the weekend.

Go to the Jupiter for the weekend. and will change your consciousness. That sounds very romantic. No, it's powerful, you know, as well. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, looking at Earth in your bedroom, you know, from Jupiter would be a nice, you know, scenic view. And so, or you can levitate your, you know, your habitat, you know,

just at the right synchros orbit so that you have sunset in your living room all the time. you know, or sunrise. And so all of a sudden, you know, society changed dramatically. But yeah, like you were saying, like these ancient principle that since we're made out of that stuff, it might have emerged instinctively from us. Never mind that the ancients told the world in all of their cultures, we didn't came up with this. people that came from the stars came and told us this,

you know, sun gods that came from the universe. Sirius B, from all over. Yeah, from all over. The Dogan tribe, like all these amazing, incredible ancient traditions and societies that had access to information that they couldn't have possibly come up with at the time. Exactly. They knew that Sirius was a binary star system. They knew that Sirius B was like the heaviest material,

like, you know, which is true, you know, it's white dwarf and, you know, like, like they knew the orbit of series B or on series A. I mean, it is like all these things is remarkable. There's no way we discovered this when we got telescopes big enough, you know, way later. Right. So, I mean, there's a couple perspectives of like how that could be possible.

One is that there is, you know, a previous ancient, civilization that had contact with alien beings or whatever but also on on we were just talking about if we have access to non-local information and the whole like you can calculate the acceleration and density of the universe within a single proton and we have were made up of protons you know then I'm just curious like what how does this change our notion of human potential as these discoveries and you're making them scientifically rigorous what does it mean and what potential implications does it have as to who we are

and what we are as human beings? Well, you know, you might start to consider that even the seat of your consciousness is actually coming from that source, right? That your knowledge and your creativity is actually emerging from that inner knowing, right? That inner knowing. And if you look at the greatest scientist or sculptors or, you know, artists and so on around the world in history,

most of them said it was from within. I had like a gut feeling. Maybe a scientist like went after and tried to figure out the math for it, but they had the concept first. If you want to know the future, you look at, you know, science. Fictions movie. Because, you know, all the technology we have today was in science fiction, not so long ago, right? The cell phone, the refrigerator, the, you know, the submarines, all this was like everything, the planes, the rockets, it was all in our inner knowing first, and then we figured out how to make it in the real world. So where is that coming from, right?

Right. So yeah, I truly believe that because the proton is entangled, that particles that make up your body are entangled to all of the rest of the universe, you have access to infinite amount of information. Right. And I think the master that walked the earth that told people go within, if you want to access the kingdom of heaven, I think they were really meaning heaven, like the universe, and they said it, in many cases, is within you. And I think they really meant it, like physically. The problem is the tendency is to extrapolate these notions to philosophy and try to actually separate from the material world in spirituality and see like some separate. where what I'm finding is that, no, no, the material world is the source, right? So you have to integrate within and within the material world. You have the tunnel to infinite amount of energy, infinite amount of knowledge.

I mean, you look at some of the greatest minds that have lived from Nikola Tesla to Kurt Godel to Einstein, to Isaac Newton. A lot of them spent just as much time in their metaphysical practice of alchemy that they wrote many papers about and in their journals about accessing that empty space within them and finding emptiness and going within and finding the kingdom of heaven. They found, a lot of them spoke to how their novel discoveries came by virtue of, of course, doing the work, studying your physics, doing that, and then forgetting it all, going into the silence and seeing what wants to emerge from within you. And it seems as though the more that

we make space for that silence and to find stillness within ourselves, whether we're a physicist at the forefront of novel discovery in that world, or we have a podcast, or we're an author, and we're writing, like there is an emergent new version of what wants to come through us. I feel all that we can tap into. And I just would love for you to continue to speak to that because it opens up so many doors, and it's a theme we've explored many times in this podcast by accessing kind of that zero point and finding stillness within you,

you gain access to something really incredible that is greater than you possibly could have intellectually conceived of. Yeah, of course, because like if you access this, all of a sudden, you realize the infinite nature of your existence, you know, the incredible potential that you, hold in the capacity to tap into sets of information that, you know, this is a reason why, like, oh, you know, we did studies on remote viewing and 80% of, you know, they were

plucking students off Berkeley, you know, university, like, right out of, you know, the, the, the, during lunch and without training, trying to get them to remote view a place they never into and they got like something like 80% success and things like that and they you know like how is that possible because the whole thing is entangled and the information is there and it actually doesn't take very much training to actually have access to it and the fact that you're conscious right now it may be because this is exactly the evidence of the access to this information your consciousness is actually the feedback in the field of this information. And so, you know, it starts to match really nicely.

The difference is that if you have a rigorous mechanical understanding of it, you're going to be able to make it into your technology. You know, you're going to be able to like apply it into your technology. Now imagine that you have technology that now is able to like extract, you know, that information in the material world. Now it's producing power just by sitting there tapping in that same field that nature is doing every moment. You know, and it's common for physicists to tell people, and especially, inventors that are working on these technology that

it violates the laws of thermodynamics and you can't do this and there's no free lunch and you know when it's last time the universe sent you a bill for the energy of all your atoms right like

but that as well that like you are there's no perpetual motion right but find me something that's not perpetual then. Okay?

Actually, there's only perpetual motion. We have been looking at protons all the way back as far as we can see. We don't see one proton decay. Protons don't decay. They perpetually continue to oscillate and be their nice proton nature, right?

And produce a charge and all this stuff. And that's remarkable. And so, you know, it's like another perspective. Oh, it's like a change of perspective from a perspective of lack. There's, you know, entropy. Everything goes to the shits, you know, eventually to, oh, if there is disorder is because there was order before. So there's a cycle of order. Centrope going the other way.

Exactly. And I can hook my technology. I can hook my consciousness and my technology to this natural cycle. And all of a sudden, I have a society that has infinite amount of energy that can travel through the solar system, if not the galaxy or even the universe. And, you know, it just changes the whole game. You realize, You're not isolated and you're part of an energy dynamic

that you can tap into it and use to infinity. You know, it's like when you tap into the energy of a lake that has water going down through a turbine, right, a hydroelectric dam, right? You didn't put the water in the lake. You didn't, and the water falls through the turbine. it's called a gravitational potential. It falls into the turbine and you extract energy.

And you calculate the entropy or you calculate the inefficiency of your turbine and you say, you see, it's not over unity. It's, you know, I'm not able to remove all the gravitational potential. There's some disorder, right? The water doesn't turn the. propella exactly perfectly, right? But that's because you've made a box and isolated the system.

You have the lake, the water going down the dam, and going out, and you cut the box there. But that's not, the universe doesn't have that box. The universe, so blow the box away and then follow the water because the earth is spinning because the sun is shining, because they're Coriolis forces, the water is evaporating, and it's making clouds,

and the clouds are going back north, right, and they're raining back into your lake. Right, that's the centripe cycle, right, that closes the loop. And so this is continuously happening, and your little turbine, it is over unity. You're extracting energy from the universe. It gives it to you, right?

Same thing in nuclear fission. You know, the energy that is in the nuclear, you didn't put it there. You're just extracting energy that's already been put there by the universe. So this is just a way to realize, oh, actually I don't have to extract the energy after it's made atoms. I can tap into the source of energy that makes the atom. And instead of breaking things apart and doing all this. you know, high energy physics and, you know, trying to fuse atoms. Instead of like doing like crazy, huge device that costs billions of dollars,

I can just tickle the field. I can do, you know, yeah, I can do just like, you know, harmonic coupling to the field. I can like play, I can dance with the field. feel I can make a little gradient of my own, right? In theory, right? In theory and in practice. It was done. It was done.

It was done. Meaning accessing that infinite energy within a single point. How was it done? It was done by many inventors throughout the ages, throughout like Tesla, Mori brothers before Tesla and so on and many other inventors. Why is that not? Obviously, and I could come up with my reasons why, but why is that? not publicly known?

Why is that not more of an... Stephen Greer did a good movie the last century that you can find on Amazon. I think it's really a good historical documentary of all the inventors and what happened to them. Let's just say there's not been so much excitement about bringing these type of technologies to the public and to the market

throughout the ages, throughout the last few decades. And I don't really don't think that should surprise anybody with the understanding of, I mean, just like the pharmaceutical industry is they profit off of keeping customers. It's kind of a sad reality that they don't as much by curers, right? Yeah. And similarly, the energy crisis, right? It's a trillion-dollar industry, right? So there's a lot of people that want to protect that.

Well, and you know, I think when you look at zero point energy, history, and you rigorously, it's hard to believe that it was missed that badly. You start to suspect that on purpose, I don't know if you saw the movie Oppenheimer, you know. So, you know, they showed the history of the development. of the atomic bomb. And at one point I was really proud of them. They say, you know, we are gonna extract the energy of the strong force.

This is the force that's holding things. But, you know, basically, it really is that like, at the time you start to suspect that they, on purpose, derailed. away from zero point energy, for reasons that had some value at the time. You know, we were talking the end of the Second World War or, you know, the middle of the Second World War

and like all kinds of issue with like racing to make a bomb, giving equations and understanding of physics that says this infinite amount of energy in the nuclear of the atom that could be tapped into was maybe not the thing they wanted to do to give to the enemies

at the time whether you're on one side or another and so it might have got derailed for those reasons security reasons at the time and then maybe it kept on being derailed and how would you do that?

You just, you have control over what's being taught in the, you know, academic structures. So you just train your physicist and you remove, you confuse them and you remove that part of the equations. So let's see many people in the scientific community, I think. Just one thing. You do that and you convince them.

to continue to repeat that it's impossible, even if it's there, it's impossible to extract energy from it. You continue to repeat that. Right. Where in fact the equation tells you, as we demonstrate, I mean, the mainstream didn't have the fact that it produced mass,

but it clearly tells you that the oscillator is needing that energy to keep oscillating, and we proved that it's actually the source of mass. So it's all of reality is evidence that it's extracting that energy, right? And you have the Casimir effect, which is like two plates that get pushed together by the vacuum fluctuation because you eliminate the long wavelength between the two plates. You make a little gradient and the plates get pushed. It's a little pressure. It's not much, but it's still energy extracting to continue saying you can't extract energy from it

is kind of ridiculous. We know, for instance, that it's producing the spontaneous emission of photons and nuclei and so on. So it really like, it's really much more evidence that it is at the source of the material world than that it's a weird animal

and you can ignore it because it all. cancels out and you can't get any energy from it. I think many within the scientific community, like I would just want to ask you, because I've actually met people who, or I've met someone who's said that they've created a free energy device, and there's many people out there.

To what degree you think they have legitimacy or whatever is up for debate? I think there's probably a lot of cooks out there also. There's a lot of goofy stuff. Yeah. And in many case, it's people they're instinctively trying to do it. Right.

And in many cases, they don't necessarily are trying to mislead people. They just confuse about how they should make measurements and all this. They don't have enough technical knowledge to do it properly. So you have personally seen like a free energy device in person? But there is some, yes, that I personally verified that, you know, it gets pretty easy when the device has no input power. you know so device that have input power it gets harder but but when they have zero input power and they continuously output power like what's an example of a device that would do something like that with no input power like what what would using water like like looking up to why no

many of them that are like that are a static device there's nothing moving just something on a countertop a device that's pulling energy from the zero point right it's got a bunch of course and they're oscillating and they're creating harmonic relationships together, basically spinning the structure of space time a little bit in the region of space and extracting a little energy. It's making its own little smoothie, its own little, you know, gradient. If you've seen something like this and it actually exists out there, I feel like it wouldn't be that hard to have somebody with this device

and to verify its legitimacy on a platform where it's seen by a million. of people and completely shift the scientific paradigm understanding of energy. It seems so. It seems so, right? So like, I would refer you back to what we saw happen in the last few years in relationship to some, you know, strange, you know, virus that, you know, emerge supposedly because somebody ate a bat. Okay?

Yeah. So what was, what do you think when I saw that I was like holding my head with my two hands and okay, but I've studied a lot of biophysics. I'm not an expert in biology. I call my virologist friends and I ask, you know, can you get SARS-2 from eating a bat? you know, because viruses that don't infect human cells don't just all of a sudden decide to infect them. So what would you think is the most likely possibility? Some miracle that SARS-2 all of a sudden decided to infect human cells because somebody ate a bat,

I guess it was undercooked or something. Or down the street, the P4 lab that was working. on gain of function research, publishing papers of how to use, you know, SARS to, you know, and change it so that it would be able to infect human cells. Which one, like, which one you think is the highest probability? You know how long it took to like, and it's still today this debate about it. You know, I could get in trouble. I'm hoping I'm not getting your channel in trouble. No, I mean, I think it's a very, it's a thing that is actually like legitimately being considered on both sides. Like it's.

Yes. And I would just suggest that the probabilities are high. Yeah. That the P4 lab that's working on that is the source of this thing. So you see, it's. If you have enough resources to stop certain sets of information from getting into the world. And on the other side, you have inventors that have zero resources that are putting things together with, you know, barbed wire and duct tape and plywood, right? it's pretty easy to convince the rest of the scientific community, they're all quooks, right?

And in the quote, you know, in the like all, and then you miss the jewels in the in the system. Well, I'm excited to talk to you more off air about this and, you know, I don't want to get too much into the weeds because there's a lot of I still want to talk about. Yeah. And it'll get me in trouble. I'm already in trouble. I've got to keep you safe. Yes. Well, we'll try.

I also just want to go back because we referenced a lot of things that I would like to touch on. One, we live in a scientific world, a Cartesian way of kind of putting things in conceptual boxes where the material reductionists have really divorced from having intrinsic kind of spiritual experiences where they feel their interconnectedness. I think if a lot of these materialists had maybe an experience with a psychedelic or a meditative experience, they might be open to considering these other realities. I've experienced, you know, like you were mentioning with the remote viewing. I think when you have either an internal experience or you really validate through like this one time, however it sounds, I had a call with a psychic. Okay. Say what you want about psychics. they that girl said to me things that nobody like would could possibly know right and so to me

because you have access to all information right but she wouldn't have physical access on the web or talking to people like there's just no way and so she must have access to connection to the web right so putting all of that to the universal web yeah right yeah yeah the universal web not WWW. Yeah. So with all that being said, I want to explore your understanding of the nature of consciousness

because we've been having more conversations on recently this show around exploring panpsychism, idealism, different types of monism and understanding what is the nature of consciousness and how it plays with everything that we're speaking to. And so we talked about

how the information of the whole is within the part. we are a conscious being that has awareness of itself and can access these different information points on the web, so to speak. So what do you think is the nature of consciousness do you believe it's a fundamental constituent of the universe? Yeah, you know, it's funny, like 30 years ago when I was starting to present in physics conferences,

it was, you could, you could, say the F word, but you could not say the C word. Like you couldn't talk about consciousness. It was thought to be unscientific to talk about consciousness. No physicist that was a respectable physicist was talking about consciousness. And now it's kind of flipped on its head. And it's kind of the cool thing for physicists

to talk about consciousness and to explore where consciousness is coming from and all this. And so you get all these statements coming out, even from the mouth of physicists, saying, you know, I believe that consciousness is the source of everything, and then like everything emerged from consciousness. And I'm really not a big proponent of these theories because they are replacing the word God with consciousness

or the word big bang with consciousness, right? It's like, oh, it all came out of consciousness, but what is that? What is consciousness? If you're not giving me the mechanics of how consciousness made all the atoms, then I'm not more advanced than some cult, right? So I'm not interested in these type of statements.

If you're going to say consciousness, then you better define what that is. And in the context of this field of information that's creating coherency and scaling from this fundamental pulse up the pulses to eventually the frequency of, for instance, the microtubules in the brain. And I just finished that part. It's on publish. It's very exciting. It gives all the right answers for like the carbon atom, the benzene ring and like the microtubule and all this. And so if that's true, then consciousness is an emergent, like what we call human consciousness

is actually an emergent phenomenon at the end of the feedback loop of information. You know, because being aware, and so I'd rather use the word awareness than consciousness, Being aware of yourself means that you have understood the feedback that you're seeing in the mirror, for instance, that that is you, right? So you're aware of self, right? Now, that, I believe, is the, you know, like, ultimate part of consciousness, but that consciousness is there all along. I was really proud of this. statement that was signed by all these amazing neural scientists in the last six months that declared that they have enough data now to show that all animals have at least some levels of consciousness, including insects and everything. And because the data is showing that they do things for fun, right? Anybody that has a dog, could have told you that. But the fact that the fact that the human society is now declaring this

officially that, yes, animals have consciousness. Dolphins will suck on a puffer fish to get high in the ocean. There's many different examples of this. Yeah, basically even bees, they can see an insect that they do things for the enjoyment of it. and that so that there's a certain level of aware, they're not just doing things to feed themselves or replicate and so on. It's not mechanical that they actually enjoy their time as well,

is making the scientific community say, okay, so there's a certain level of consciousness all along. And what I'm saying is that actually extends and that the scientific community is not there yet because I haven't given. giving them the equations, but that's on its way. You know, it extends all the way down to the Plong field. That is the pulse of that information set.

And so, like, the material world is actually as well, you know, part of this feedback of information, getting more and more complex, getting more and more advanced and making things that are less advanced, at first and then more and more advance eventually to a human being that is, you know, highly, has high enough complexity that it become aware of itself. So you're speaking to consciousness as a, essentially a force that runs upon all scales, but there's a point in which it becomes aware of itself, which only, you know, certain levels of complexity and density of, density of, of systems.

systems can achieve. So in a way from like the metaphysical or philosophical understanding, like I am runs throughout all existence, I am that I am, or awareness of awareness essentially is for certain levels of development within human or other life that can recognize self in a mirror, for example. But I think it's, man, when you explore the different ways in which qualia should, shows up in different life forms, for example, an octopus or a mantis strip that has 12 different channels of color, right?

And these different ways in which people, different things within existence are having an experience of itself is very, very fascinating. And it just starts to push our boundaries and scope of understanding of what we think life is and what's possible within life, right? Yeah, it's not necessarily accurate to say that only the human species,

has become aware of itself. No, for sure. There's a lot of other animals that can recognize itself in a mirror. That's right. There's more and more evidence of that. Yeah, I mean, certainly with dolphins, it's been demonstrated.

You know, I don't know what exactly the state is of that type of studies are because it's not my field of expertise. But I would suggest that it's like it's like a gradient of change. change. Like it's like an evolution of the material world. I mean, really, when you look at us, we're like water bags with a bunch of minerals in it that have self-organized, you know,

that vortex itself into a self-organized system that is transferring information and acting upon it, right? Like it's really a remarkable thing, but it took, it takes the whole scale from atomic or subatomic particle or even blank scale all the way to the biological scale for the whole thing to work together. And so that's why I make a little bit of fun of the neurologist that look at the brain and try to find this, the seat of consciousness. in the brain by analyzing chemical change in the brain and saying it's not quantum because the brain is too warm and too wet. It can't be quantum. It must be at the biological scale. And I just say to that, well, you know, it would be like a natural physicist that's looking

at a galaxy, analyzing a galaxy, and that ignores the stars in it because they're two, far remote in terms of size to the galactic disk. Well, if you're going to ignore the stars, you're going to miss the whole thing, right? You know, the cells of your brain and everything you're made of is made out of atoms. And at the atomic level, the energy levels are much higher. And this is where, you know, we need to look

if we want to understand the nature of the information network, that we see at larger scale that are developed from the atomic structure. So you see, I get into a lot of trouble in many ways. And I love, you know, what people, there's so many brilliant people. People are so brilliant.

It's amazing. It's just that the educational system has a tendency to really, like, fracture and compartmentalize studies so that the person that study the molecular structure ignores the atomic structure. The person that studied the atomic structure ignores the molecular or the biological structure. You know, like this is, you know, it's the problem. It's like all this fragmentation of our science.

And then it doesn't speak across the scale anymore. Yeah. So do you think everything in the universe is? an equation of sorts like everything is essentially mathematical in the way that if you're looking to build towards a unified theory of everything is that possible within i guess the limited even though we have contained like he spoke to contain information from the whole within the part within the system is it possible to gain awareness through an equation with a theory of everything that explains the whole outside of the system i feel like

And it's been talked about how you may have to be outside of the system fully to be able to understand what it is, which makes sense. So you think it's possible to have a theory of everything. Is that possible in your eyes? I think so, absolutely. I think that, like, it's actually inevitable. Inevitable. It's inevitable. Inevitable, yes.

Sorry, my English. Now that I live in France, in France. and speak French a lot. My English is going. It's not good. I got a train. But I think it's a natural consequence of what's going to happen.

I want to rectify your statement a little bit. Mathematical physicists, which most physicists that are doing fundamental physics today are mathematical physicists. And what I mean by that, they mostly do mathematics and they don't necessarily relate it well to physics, meaning like the real shit that's happening in the real world, right?

There are these books that are published called Lost in Math, you know, and things like that because they're in like 11 dimensions of strings and, you know, 10 to the 500 compactification, you know, possibility when, you know, reality is most likely vastly different from that. But so there's this saying that you hear physicists and mathematical or mathematician even say is the universe is mathematical in nature. There's famous people that said that in history and we keep repeating that. And I disagree with that. I disagree fundamentally with that. I think the universe doesn't do mathematics.

It doesn't really care. You know what the humans with their. or Greek letters or writing on a piece of paper, I don't think it builds using mathematics. What the universe does is geometry. Geometry is fundamental, and what I mean by geometry is ratios. It does ratios, relationship.

It's all relationship. And the relationship produce the constants that we see, the forces that we see, the energy that we see. That it's all relationships. And when you look at the mathematics, we write for the universe, we see these relationships, like the relationship between energy and mass,

you know, all the things we see in relationships. So ratios, geometry is what the universe does, and then the human have, you know, made systems of mathematics with symbology, with like ways of describing things, models to try to describe these relationships, to try to describe this geometry that the universe does. So I like to think of it more reverse. The universe is geometric in nature and relationships in nature.

And we write mathematics to understand these relationships. And I mean, we see this and we can observe throughout all of nature, throughout all the cosmos, how there are significant patterns and ratios that show up like the number 108 in terms of how many moons fit between the Earth and the Moon and how many Earths fit between the diameter of the Sun and it goes on and on and on from the macro to the micro and it is yeah we see geometry we see ratios that are very um that are very sustained across different scales we see. We see, for instance, the golden ratio, you know, show up or the Fibonacci series would be more accurate, you know, show up in many different scales in our universe from galaxy arms to, you know, flowers on our planet and so on. And so it's like, yeah, they seem to be repeating ratios, fractal kind of things, you know, the way things divide and the ratio the universe used to make these divisions. You can see that there's some kind of coherent pattern that is developed by nature.

And that was how I started my exploration when I was young. It's like, I want to understand this pattern. And then I thought, if I can write the math of this pattern, I should find all of the fundamental constants we measure in physics. And I did. It's not published yet. That's in the third paper. The paper I just published as a series of three.

And so it will come. But, you know, we measure the gravitational constant. We measure the right bird constant. We measure alpha, we measure all these things that we call fundamental constants of physics, but we don't know where they come from, right? Well, when you do these ratios and you understand how this fundamental field creates relationship,

then you find these constants emerge naturally from these theories. It's very powerful because now you understand how these constants and what are the mechanics of these constants. I think so many of us get off-struck just glancing at the inherent intelligence that's we've throughout all of creation. Like the finely attuned ratios that hold everything in balance just right. If it was off just a little bit on one way or the other, it wouldn't be come to be. Yeah, it's called a fine-tuning problem. Right.

Yeah. And so I think that... Like there would be none of planets, stars, galaxies, if Alpha was a little bit off or G was a little bit off, like by very little and then nothing would have come together. Yeah. So it's highly tuned. Yeah.

Yeah. Did you have a moment? Because I think a lot of us are just off-struck at the sheer level of intelligence and organization between the coherent and the coherent, universe, but you and your early 20 is like, was there an experience or what kicked you off down this path initially? I'm just curious for your personal journey because for you to devote your life to this, I would only assume that it was either a fundamental drive and passion that was just within you for a while or maybe you had a series of experiences that really motivated you down

this path. No, it's both. You know, I had moments of, you know, deep knowing and eliminations that that got me on this path, but as well, a bunch of different circumstances that like made it so that, you know, I was thinking about this really profoundly. I was like spending significant amount of time, meditating on the nature of this, of all these relationships.

What is the fundamental geometry of this thing? Why? Why were you doing that? Are we meditating on that? Because I wanted to know, like, how did I get here? I was kind of surprised that people weren't asking that question. Yeah. It seemed like we just get here and then we get told, this is what you do, right?

You go to school, right? As soon as, like, you can barely walk, you know, you get stuck in this institution and you just sit down and we're going to teach you all this stuff. And so then you learn, learn, learn, learn. And then as soon as you get out, now you got to get a job, you got to get married, you got to get the house, get the car, get the, and it's like, and I was all struck when I was, I remember you having these thoughts when I was like seven or eight, you know, and thinking, why are we doing all this?

Like, where is it going? Like how are, and nobody was asking that. How did I get here? What is this? Like, what is this experience I'm having? Like, you know, like very fundamentally. And it's, I was really strange. And then I realized, oh, yeah, they do ask that question.

Typically, like hours before they pass, you know, hour before they pass. They go, what was this whole experience I just had of 80 years or whatever, you know? But it's like now you got hours to figure it out. So I figure, I better start asking the question. early because I might need a lot of time to figure it out. And I sure did, you know, I needed a lot of time. And I think I'm getting really close. But the remarkable thing is that there's always deeper levels and deeper levels.

And it's just, and every time, like, you know, you get completely transformed when you, when you, you know, discover deeper levels of the amazing coordination. and like, you know, one turn of the proton is the universe refresh rate, you know, and things like that. You know, it really, it really, when you, it's not just an equation, it's not just a concept. It's like, oh, you can start to feel it in your body. When it's really true, you can start to feel it in your body. It's in your awareness. Like you can start to feel your relationship with this field

and it's powerful. It's transformative. And my conclusion is that the universe is learning about itself and were the probes at the end. You know, Einstein said, object are not in space. Objects are an extension of the space, right? And he was saying that because he was talking about the fact that space is not empty, the zero point energy and all this.

And he said like, you know, as a consequence, we can't think of space as empty. Space is full. And it's the source of how an object emerge, you know, how things emerge. Like to start to think that way, I think Einstein was definitely on it. And you might say, well, why didn't Einstein? was a smart guy, right? Like, why didn't he unified the field then? He didn't have the tools.

He was missing some stuff. One of the things he was missing the moats was what his theory predicted. Meaning his theory of general relativity predicts black holes. In fact, it doesn't predict anything else than black holes. Right? The solution to Einstein field equation is a black hole.

the switchout solution. And, and, but he, but he didn't believe they existed. So I am very fascinated at how our, the unique things in life that bring us joy and, and excite us to move and discover different fields of study, it almost feels like there's this divine orchestration that draws to, you know, on one hand, these discoveries as we start to make space for what wants to emerge from within us, but also who we become, the process of doing the work in the world is, is I feel like the real fruit of the path.

And you mentioned that you've had alongside your studying field of work, transformative experiences, both in the realization of the profundity of what you're discovering, but also firsthand experiences that felt transformative. And when you look back on that time, would you care to share one or two of those pivotal moments where you had an experience that you feel like

really transformed you? Well, I mean, one of the most known one that I've discussed in many of my lectures is when I was approximately 10 years old, I don't know exactly, you know, it was around there. I got my first lesson in geometry, and I had a very similar experience than Buckminster Fuller had prior to me, which was, you know, the teacher, made a dot on the blackboard and said that's dimension zero and it doesn't have volume and it doesn't exist. And I thought I've going to fail this class. I know I'm going to fail this class because I see the dot. So if I see the dot, it's got some volume. If I look at the chalk on the blackboard with an electron microscope, it's got volume.

You know, so what do you mean it doesn't exist? You mean the concept of the dot doesn't agree. So you see this extrapolation from an analogy. We make analogies and we assume that because we made an analogy, it's the way the universe work is the error, right? And so then the bunch of dot makes the line that makes dimension one. you know the four line makes a plane that makes the dimension two and then the six planes get put together to make a cube that makes dimension three you know that I was more and more confused

because if the dot didn't exist and the line doesn't exist then you know the the plane cannot exist because it's defined by four lines and and then if the planes doesn't exist well you haven't enclosed anything when you've made a cube with non-existing planes. You just got non-existence to the fort, you know. And so it's like this cannot be it. Like how do I solve that riddle? And I'm going home, I was, I had like an hour long bus ride because I was not doing well at school. I was very dyslexic and I kept on, you know, having to be transferred to other schools, you know, further and further from my house. house. And so I had an hour and a half bus ride coming home. And so I was thinking about this in the

bus. And I realized actually the only way you can solve this is by saying the exact contrary. The only thing that exists is the dot, the singularity. And that singularity can be divided to infinity. So I was, I didn't know to use the word fractal. I didn't, I didn't know about Cantor that had come up with infinite amount of infinities. I didn't know all these things, but I was starting to think the universe must have like in, like I was thinking, wow, the cells are so small and then the atoms are so small, and then the subatomic particles are so small. And I was thinking, oh, this solar system is so small relative to the galaxy, and the galaxy

is so small relative to the cluster and the cluster to the supercluster and the supercluster in the universe. and our universe could be in a larger one. And I started to think, oh, okay, it's like all dots at different scales that have different levels of complexity in them, different energy levels at all the scales. And I really, I mean, was really close to what I'm writing right now. And I was at the age of 10, right? so that this is 50 years ago.

And it really launched me to try to understand the fractal nature of space, to try to understand, you know, the relationship between the scale, the energy transfer from one scale to the other and all this and eventually. But it was a profound moment because at the same time,

when I was turning 11, I learned to meditate, you know. And I was, and I realized, oh, okay, meditation is like looking inwards, instead of looking outwards all the time, taking sometimes an inward, you know, if you try to imagine infinity outward, it's like you run out of bits, you know, like it's too much. You can't, like, take it all in. But if you actually start to think of infinity as like divisions within you, then you get a sense of infinite amount of infinities like Cantor described.

You know, you get a sense of this fractal nature within. So infinitely small is the way you want to go if you're trying to like reach singularity within, you know. So so those had impact. I'm many, many other stories. I mean, times in, I was a mountain guide, that was a ski guy, that was, you know, and times in the mountains that were like profound, profound moments of, you know,

just spontaneous moments of feeling complete connectivity with my environment, with the natural world around me, a feeling of deep knowledge, you know, pouring in, like very profound moments that left me completely changed and transformed. Yeah. So, I mean, so many, so many of these moments. When doing exercises, for instance, like getting in the zone, right?

So for instance, I was a solo climber. So I loved to solo climb, you know, and I would go up thousands of feet, you know, no robes, just shoes and chalk. And it was like looking at the crystals and the rock as I was climbing and the, you know, beautiful level of zoning into the field and having the most amazing, time and finding the edge, you know, between fear and complete ecstasy, right? Like it's, because in these state where like one error is the end, right? The, the, the, you have this, you find that edge so clearly between fear and ecstasy, you know, and it's so nice, you get so clear feedback, uh, in this case. in climbing because as you're climbing, if you start having thoughts, you're going to fall.

If you look down and start thinking you're going to fall, it's almost instantaneous. I feel it right now talking about. It's almost instantaneous. Your hands and your palm of your hands starts to get wet. You know, you start sweating. It's almost instantaneous. And so more you're afraid, more you're sweating, more you're slipping. Yeah.

And it's just a bad feedback. It's not looking good for you. And you have to overcome the fear thoughts and think, oh, you know, I'm having a beautiful day. It's gorgeous. I'm going to be at the top enjoying this. And then as soon as you overcome the fear, boom, you're back in and you're fine and you keep going, right? So these were moments that were important for me because I was terrified to do this work.

I mean, I wasn't terrified to do the work because I was so, and I am still, so passionate about it. But at the time, I was definitely terrified to try to bring it to the world. You know, like I knew I was going to get tomatoes thrown at me one after the other and, you know, what was going to that do to my self-esteem, to my feeling of security of self, you know, like I had many reason to be afraid.

And at the same time, I felt it was my duty to bring this knowledge to the world and to be okay with enduring. And that those things would make me grow, you know. and I've grown. I've grown. I'm so much better now at receiving criticism. And it's still hard. It hurts your heart,

especially if it's, you know, unjustified. You know, if somebody looks at my equation and says, okay, this term here is false or it's wrong or this equation is false or you have to fix this or you have to fix this or yeah. That, you know, thank God, thank you for telling me or let me work this out.

But when it's like you're an idiot or, you know, like, you know, your crackpot, you know, then it hurts. And it's not so much what they're saying about me that hurts. Is when I see people that were interested get diverted because they hurt. heard something for somebody that had nothing to do with the physics, you know, then it hurts my heart that that person was interested and now thinks I'm a crackpot because they read it on some thread, you know, on Reddit or whatever, you know. And that's, that's painful to see.

Yeah. Have you found any comfort in the observation that some of the greatest thinkers in the past that have brought forth novel discovery that were a paradigm shift for the planet were all notoriously hated or shunned or almost killed. Called crackpots and yeah. Not just almost killed.

Yeah, many were killed. So yeah, you know, it helps. It doesn't make it much better because it's still painful in the moment. But it helps. You go, at least they're not burning me at the stake or cutting my ear off or, you know, like I can't you know

so it's not as violent that is it used to be but it's still painful yeah I'm curious because we're here I want to ask you because there are many in the scientific community that that kind of cringe at this what they feel is an unjustified leap

from examining this quantum strangeness to macroscopic effects like manifestation and they feel like there's some hand waving or like where it's just unjustified in the explanation of saying because we're all interconnected at this quantum level where things are strange

to then say that there's these you know more I guess denser realities like manifestation that operate I'm just curious what your thoughts on that are both the criticism but then also

if you care to share the literal mechanisms of of how that works. Yeah, I mean, that's a complex issue, and it has to do with the fact that the hand-waving doesn't come from the people that are saying these things, although they're doing some hand-waving too.

It actually, as well, come from the way the Copenhagen interpretation of the double-slid experiment occurred, like this idea of the measurement and the collapse of the wave function and all this, that that has quite a bit of hand-waving in it. I'm not sure what they were smoking in Copenhagen, but they think that the cat is alive and dead at the same time,

which is what Swaringer came up with to ridiculize the interpretation of his own equation, showing that, like, no, this is, I've got to be an error. And then it got popularized, like, to his horror, right? That, oh, yeah, this is the way it works, you know. Well, you know, it's, it's, I think, bad science. I think it's really bad science.

And that really is the problem. And it's the reason it's complex because the spiritual people look at that and say, you see you need consciousness to make a measurement for the collapse of the wave function to happen and reality to emerge. And so that means consciousness is primary and da-da-da-da-da. And so like they take off with this

when I think the principle in its inception is false. Right? So why was it interpreted this way? Well, I'm going to tell you, because they removed zero point energy because they removed the field. So let me explain.

You have an experiment where you have one slit and you're throwing things at it. You're throwing photons or electrons at it. And you're getting dots on the backboard because it's going through the slit and making the dots. And then you're like, you put two slits. And then all of a sudden, instead of getting dots on both sides,

you're getting an interference pattern on the backboard. And you go, wow, the particle, instead of thinking, okay, we missed something, you start to think that the particle is splitting itself into two in state of superposition, and it actually interfered with itself after it's gone through the slit and making the interference pattern. And it's like, okay, what have you smoked, right?

And then you try to measure which slit did they go through, right, to see if you got the right interpretation. And when you try to measure, you get a third result. And then you say... Just through the mere observation and measurement of that. Right. And it changes it. It changes it.

But, you know, and you start writing physics on that. But you could have... interpret this completely differently, except you couldn't have, if you think that the particle you're shooting at the slit is isolated from the field, right? So if you think the particle is in a field-free environment, you've got a problem,

and it will result into this interpretation. But now put the field back in, put the zero point back in, and realize that what you, your shooting is actually like a dynamic of a field that's making waves as it moves, just like a boat makes waves on the ocean. So now it's a particle in a wave, not because it's in some kind of magical quantum state. It's just the mechanics of fluid dynamics of a field, right?

And so when you have one slit, it makes dot, have to slit the waves that the particle may go through the second and interfere and makes interverent pattern. And then when you put an instrument to measure, that instrument is making waves as well. And it's canceling the wave of the particle that makes a third result, right? Just because of the particles that are emanating

from the physical instrument that's making the observation, or in what way is it interfering within the way? I mean, you're using photon, whatever you're using to measure, right? You have to tune it to the harmonic frequency of your experiment. It's not just any measurement device. And when you do that, you're basically canceling the waveform that the particle is making in the field. So, of course, you're getting a different result. But it's just because it's field interaction.

This is called pilot wave theory. So I came up with it in my van, on my own, in the 90s, you know, isolated in the mountains being my climber self. And I thought, oh, I figured it out. And then it's like, no, somebody figured that out long before you, right? The buglier and others, boom eventually. It's a big bummer. When you make a song on piano and you realize you just wrote like a big

hit that's already out there. That's already out there. Yeah, exactly. And I was like, no, but I was glad they had figured it out because then eventually MIT in the 90s took a back of fluid. It was silicon fluid with silicone beads, oscillated the bag, the back, you know, and then shot the beads at the slater and got all the same result as the Copenhagen interpretation. but just with fluid dynamics, right?

Just with fluid dynamics. And then they took the back and they spun it. And then all the beads fell in the troughs and made like the quantum states, you know, and so on. And it's like, wow, you know, you can do the whole thing in fluid dynamics. And then you realize, wow,

and the spiritual people might say, Oh, but you're taking the magic away. And so people don't like that. So they continue with the doubles, with the Copenhagen interpretation. And it's like, no, no, no, no, no. It's much more profound. I'm actually putting the magic in.

It's more profound. It's saying that everything is interacting, mediated by this field. Everything is producing, reality by the mediation with this field. Everything is in relationship with everything else. You can't assume that it's isolated. It's all in connection.

Everything together makes the collective experience we're having. So it's actually much more profound, and I think it's much more correct. and to rigorously write this, which we have, and it's in the second paper it's coming up. When is that coming out, do you know? We're trying to get it out. We were trying to get it out for the beginning of the year. I have feelings that's not going to happen.

Hopefully by February or, you know, yeah, February, May, or whatever. But, you know, we can see that, like, where the errors were made because you remove zero point energy and everything goes sideways. You remove the field, and now you're going to see things that don't,

that you can't understand. And, you know, Einstein used to make fun of it. I think he was talking to go. when he said, do you really believe that when you're not looking at the moon, it's not there, right? Like, you know. Local realism. Yeah. It's not, the universe is not requiring the humans for it to exist.

If a tree falls in the forest, it makes a noise. And it doesn't care if there's a human around to listen to it. There's all kinds of other things listening to it, the bugs, the, the, fleas on the cat is the flea on the cat inside the box of the swarlinger box is not confused the universe is not confused about the state of the cat just the human is confused about the state of the cat now so you know there's uncertainties in but as only uncertainties because we're observing from our perspective, the universe itself is not uncertain about its state. It can get a little bit into the weeds in terms of what you think something actually is

and how it exists independent of your own observation. Well, you know, it's just that the universe is not human-centric. Of course. It really isn't. Which is the biggest, I think there's just saying that enlightenment is the biggest bummer to the ego or something. You know, it's like, we want to be the center of the universe. Right.

Well, you know, that's the thing. You know, it's like when you reach higher levels of awareness, you can become, you know, a master, which you are, okay? And the ego can take off and go sideways. But if you're truly a master, you're quite aware that everybody's a master. as well, because everybody has all the information. You're not actually teaching anything to anybody. You're just helping them to remember what they already know.

Yeah, like Gandhi said to a pure heart, all hearts are pure. And similarly, a bodhisattva, someone who's awakened to their true nature, sees that as everyone else as well. Exactly. The Buddha was asked, well, Buddha, you keep saying everybody is the Buddha. But we don't feel like the Buddha. Like, what's the difference between us and you if we're all Buddhas? And the Buddha answered, the Buddha knows it's the Buddha.

It's the only difference, right? If you don't know you're the master, you're not the master. You know, that's straightforward. The problem is the ego has a problem. Like, no, no, don't think you're the master because that would be a big ego-tripping thing. The ego is a problem with that. If knowing you're the master is knowing that everybody has mastery, everybody is a master,

then you're good, right? We're all good, right? See, that's the important thing. What do you see as all this is progressing in the scientific work, science and spirituality merging, what do you feel is the reality of what that is and what it looks like in the coming decades? So I think there's a really bright future for humanity. if we are able to bring this level of information out. I think the next few decades or even less,

we're going to see energy extraction from vacuum fluctuation come into the world. We have to. This is the last tick on the 11th hour. You know, we have to bring this new level of energy production into the world. I think it's very much on the way. And I think it's going to change fundamentally our society

when you can make energy anywhere you are. But even, you know, like not centralized. Eventually, like your phone is going to make its own energy needs to run. You know, your house is going to make its own energy that it needs to run. like it has little device in there that's extracting energy from the vacuum, your car is going to do the same thing,

your spaceship's going to do the same thing, whatever, you know, so I see a really bright future that can develop for humanity if it's allowed to happen, if it's allowed to come out, if it's and I think

this type of technology, they transcend, send your consciousness. They help your consciousness because you realize, wow, I live in an abundant universe with infinite amount of resources. I have never to worry about feeding myself,

lodging myself, having power that like all humans can have everything they need. You know, that there's infinite amount of resources. If you have, if you have gravity control, for instance. You can go and get chunks of gold the size of, you know, asteroids.

You know, you go in the astrial belt. You find everything you need, like water, all the material you need. And so it really, I think there's like a beautiful, beautiful chapter for human beings. But it's like the surface of a balloon when you put energy into it, right? It starts going more and more high,

as more and more energy you put into it, and then it goes into like chaotic pattern, and it looks like it's going to rip apart right before it pops into the next resonant frequency at a higher frequency, and then it coeres again. Like I think we're like in that phase where it's like super chaotic,

and if the surface tension of the balloon is not strong enough, it can rip apart in that phase before it goes to the higher frequency. I think we're in that place where it could rip apart. It could, you know, or it could transcend the little difficulty and, you know, go to the next level, which would benefit all human beings on the planet. Incredible. I think that alongside the external manifestations of gravity control or free energy, or who knows, especially what's possible as AGI superpowers us to be able to examine and

do research into all these different things like protein folding, for example, or whatever, to sidebar that conversation, what do you think, not just in what we create, but in terms of how we understand who we are, like understanding ourselves. what do you think is going to be shifting there in the coming couple decades? Well, the reason I talked about technologies is because I think the technology is going to help us do that.

Every astronaut that's gone to space has reported really transformative experience looking back at the Earth, seeing that there's no lines between countries, you know, that we're on a small little blue tank that were so fragile, that were all humans, you know, they all had these reporting, these experiences from seeing the Earth from orbit.

Imagine everybody having access to that. It would change our, you know, our awareness. I mean, think of it this way. Like, the problems of Earth become really minimal when you're orbiting Jupiter, you know, Earth is way over there, you're doing just fine, you have, you know, all the energy you need, you have everything you need.

So what I'm saying is, okay, but before that, you know, just the fact that if this is allowed to happen, if this comes to be, it's going to change profoundly the way we think of ourselves. we're going to like profoundly like okay I'm here I'm having an experience and this experience is linked to like a deep well of information and I'm part of something so much greater than myself right and I'm part of this collective you know learning of of creation of the universe and so on and so I think we're going to learn in the next few decades if we, if the balloon doesn't rip and explode, right?

If it actually makes it to the next level, you know, the sense of community, the sense of oneness with each other, the sense of collective, you know, constructive behavior that emerge, you know, from understanding deeper that we're all connected through this field. I think it's going to really transform our sense. I think that our true mastery will be allowed to come out. And that's going to be beautiful to see. You mentioned a lot of those external technologies, but it seems like just on the same parallel

as the understanding of the external world this happening, we're seeing the fundamental parts in which it's made out of, which we are also made out of. And so I'm just curious to see what shifts in terms of our understanding of human potential and what becomes normal or realizing what's actually natural within us, because we live in a world right now that is in so many toxic ways kind of pushing down the human potential. And I'm just interested to see as that blossoms and almost as the field of belief kind of lifts and like the veil of forgetting of our of the power that we have within us kind of lifts what starts to awaken both in the powers of being human as energetic beings

and then everything that we create from it we can and like see it emerging right now you know like the balloon example yeah before it pops into the next one you see islands of coherency start to show up on the surface of the by at at the next three feet right at the higher frequency islands of coherency starts to to appear i think these islands of coherencies are emerging we see it we see so many amazing humans doing amazing things yeah and also the organization of those humans coming together exactly and you know the piece that's largely missing though is the the piece that produced the most fear in people and it's the financial piece that like needs to plug in to like power this whole thing into the next um you know like

CERN burns 1.5 billion dollars a year in their budgets if a very small portion of that was distributed again you know to laboratories that are working on understanding zero point energy and bringing zero point energy technology to the market and all this, we would pull out of that. You know, we would pull out of the problems we have today very rapidly. So, you know, it's the willingness, the collective willingness, and we're starting to see it more and more to actually take action and launch humanity in another direction. and then we need the financial structures to come behind and, you know, fuel that so that it can take off.

And that's the part that's harder. If you look at all these inventors throughout history that didn't succeed, in most cases, it's because the financial structure was not there to support them to get it out to the world. right? If they had the resources, maybe they would have done better.

So it's problematic. Because for instance, let's say you have an inventor that has this kind of technology or that has the, you know, needs resources to develop this kind of technology. And they, they go to an investor group or whatever, an individual and so on.

That person, that investor group or individual, has to, like, take this information and turn around and try to, like, you know, do diligence on it and find and see if, like, is this real? Is this possible? And if this was, let's go back to the right brothers. If this was the right brothers two weeks prior for them to get it done, right? Well, they would have said, oh, no, no, look, there's like hundreds of papers saying it's not possible.

No, no, no, no. So then that individual with the resources, they have to have enough trust in their inner beliefs against all the experts saying, no, no, no, this is not possible, right? So it's a big challenge. It's a big challenge. And it has defeated us so far. Yeah. Yeah. So, but there's more and more people that are, have resources that are as well, you know, realizing and evolving and, you know, understanding these deeper principles that are in,

the Hermetic science and in the spiritual science and so on, and that are like, and that recognize the truth in this type of information, this type of science, and that wants to support. So hopefully that gets the job done. Yeah. Well, I mean, my prayer is that the connections that are made individually, but then also collectively through platforms like this and the conversations that, you know, I see you be having more and more start to ignite that possibility within people and to start feeling as leadership starts to emerge in a new paradigm, you know, where the people who are going against

the grain of the current paradigm always look crazy, but then a discovery happens or something shifts where then the energy towards that leader who had more faith, you know. I think Helen Keller is famously quoted about the one thing worse than having. having no sight, is having no vision, you know. Yes, that's for sure. Yeah, that's a good quote. Yeah, if you look in history, all the people, most of the people that made great breakthroughs.

And in science, there's not been that many in physics. There's not been that many in the last hundred years. We're still pretty well where we were with Einstein. and Planck and quantum mechanics and all this. There's been, of course, you know, improvements, some understandings of certain parts and bits and pieces, but no fundamental breakthrough, you know, as occurred, you know, in physics in a very long time.

And so, of course, you know, you have, when it's been so long, it takes a lot of energy to like bring a breakthrough through right and so it takes time and it takes patience but what's most important is it takes resources to be able to do it those resources can be difficult to find and it's really painful to see when you when you know what you could do and all you need is like pennies, you know, compare to like what is being spent on other things that may not be so useful. Like, you know, children dying and, you know, military. Industrial complex and so on, like how to better kill each other, you know.

it can be quite difficult and frustrating. Yeah, of course. Yeah, of course. There's, I could literally talk to you for eight hours and just keep going. We have an event here. We're going to do here very shortly, so we got to hop off to that. But before we do that, there's just a couple more topics that I want to see if you can try to concisely share your thoughts on.

Yeah. One. I try to be concise, but I don't do very well. It's a hard task. Yes. test and we can dive more and some future conversations for sure but when i think of the human story and whatever you want to say about ancient civilizations or whatever recorded history or written history of whatever 6 000 is you know um years back to ancient sumeria the humanity in this context

is a blink in the vast eternity of existence that has preceded us and will come through the descendants of humanity. And when I think about time, it is a very interesting concept to me, because I've had various moments and meditative experiences where there's completely no sense of time, there's no sense of self. We live in a world that is ruled by the calendar and by time and being in places on time. And I've heard you speak to space memory, you know, as like space time. And our understanding of time is being revolutionized, I think. And so what thoughts would you have on that in particular in relation to time being illusory or not even being possible without memory.

Right. So I change space time to space memory because I feel that space memory is more precise because no memory, no time. If you didn't remember the second before, you can't tell that there's an evidence, of state, you know, and so you can't say, you know, there's a linear time because you don't remember what happened just before. Would you not say that the time could still exist, though, irrespective of our experience of it,

to the experience, I suppose, of other things? I'm just talking about your experience just to give you an example. But the mechanics are the same for the universe. outside of your experience of time, meaning that evolution in the universe, if it happens, and we see it on our planet, it seems to happen, means that it has remembered what was before.

So that information on the structure of space is the memory imprint. And at each coordinates you get a memory imprint, is like the steel of a movie strip that you're playing, right? And it appears like linear time, but in fact it's just stills, right? It's the same thing.

Each point along the timeline is just an imprint in a coordinates and space of information. It's a memory of information as an imprint. just like memory on the hard disk. Okay. And so the earth is spinning around the sun and the sun is moving through the galaxy

and basically everything that's happening is leaving an imprint on the structure of space on the zero point energy as it's exchange information and produce all this. And memory, even in your memory, in your mind is actually not in there. It's you access.

the information in the heart disk, what the ancient called the Akashic record of space, right? And so that time is really a concept of man, but actually the universe is just doing memory in coordinates in space. So I, yeah. Yeah, that's, I just mind blowing. And that was actually very concise.

So I think you. for that. Yeah, I want to unpack that more in the future with you for sure. Another thing that I just find mind-blowing when looking into your work is this idea of nested realities or multiverse. So if from the microcosm to the macrocosm, we observe how different parts emerge to grander holes in this kind of complexity theory, it is reasonable to extrapolate that our universe could be one of many inside of a multiverse.

And so I'm just curious what thoughts you have on the possibility of that. Yeah, I, you know, I don't like the terminology parallel universe because they're not parallel. I don't think they're parallel. I think they're concentric to each other. Like nested within one another. Nested, like Russian dolls.

And certainly the scaling equations I'm writing show this. And the nesting means that as well, there is coupling from one scale to the other, right? The scale that's inside is influencing

the larger scale and the larger scale is influencing the scale that there's coupling across the scales. And so they're all interdependent on each other. and so I think that is most likely much more accurate and it's really the thought I had when I was 10 and so I really truly believe that there is no size limit to the universe to the multiverse and that like the embeddedness can go to infinity

and that there's no size limit to how small the pixels of the universe can be. And so there's truly no size limit to the infinitely small. And so physicists would say, well, then how are you going to write physics on that? And it's because you can identify scales. Like, for instance, in our universe you could say, I'm going to cut off at the Planck scale, right, and at the universal scale. And so now I'm going to understand what's in there.

And since it's replicating like a fractal, if I understand one part, I will understand the whole. And that's how you end up studying the proton and figuring out the mass of the universe, right? and figuring out the temperature of the universe, you know, it's angular momentum, it's angular dynamics and so on.

So the reason I don't like parallel is because it's like if they were parallel, then they never connect. They're not in relationship with each other, where I think they're absolutely in relationship with each. Yeah, because everything is in relationship, so that would make sense. Yeah. Yeah. It's just, I think our feeble human minds can't possibly comprehend what the universe is, let alone nested multiverse. But at the same time, I think there is a deeper intelligence than just our own intellect. And I think that a lot of the great minds in the past have tuned into the intelligence that they're connected to around them to intuit these certain things, which then later are very,

verified by science. That's true. And so any thoughts you have on the power of intuition and accessing that dimension within us as humans? Yeah, I think, you know, we've called intuition intuition and as almost a derogatory word, especially in science, like, oh, it's just what you think. It's just what you feel, you know, it has no value.

where in fact, intuition is the most valuable. You know, it's like the universe is talking to you and are you listening, right? Because most of the greatest discoveries and if you ask, you know, if you look in history, is because somebody had an intuition and they intuited their way into it and then went back and went,

oh, okay, that's how I got around. write the physics, right? You have to have the thought. And this is one of the errors that's occurring in physics in our era, is that we flip that on its head. And we now think that if you write enough mathematics, eventually it'll tell you how the universe work. And I think the best example of that is string theory, which leads you right into a wall. Because the mathematics can, you know, you can interpret it in all kinds of ways. And so I think that like it's much more important. And this is why Einstein said imagination is more important than facts.

What he was leading to was it has to come from within your knowledge. And that's intuition. that's your sense of, I have a sense it works this way. I have a sense it is this way, you know, and then you go and verify if you got it right and now it's got to be rigorous, right? But the sense, the intuition is critical. I mean, how many times did you have an intuition

that you turn left instead of turning right and then met just the right person you needed to meet. And, you know, like, when you follow your intuition, a lot of the times it works out best. So I think it's really the universe talking to you. It's really like you're tuning in to all of the different possibilities that are occurring in the universe, in your region of space, and you're actually feeling where is the most positive,

you know, behavior for you. Yeah, it seems so pragmatic to me, honestly, that our bodies are able to follow a path and move in a direction where there's more coherence in ways that our mind can't fully understand, but we are an incredibly intelligent biological, ecosystem that does have attunement and can follow those things. Yeah, but what is it tuning to?

Right, the environment and the universe that is in your area of space and time. Right, right. You're tuning into the field. Right. And the field is talking to you. Yeah. And that, to me, I just, I love grounding this because you have been throughout this whole conversation and the reality of how it's actually working and not just this hand-waving,

spiritual kind of pseudoscience-y talk, you know, because it's, it really just grounds it. So I appreciate you continuing to do that. I feel like it's critical. It is. And it's funny because it puts me at odds, both with the spiritual community, which doesn't want to add. You know, we don't need no stinking technology and, you know, physics and all this. and you know they're telling me that on their cell phone while driving their car and um and or the or the scientific community that's saying oh you don't need no stinking consciousness or you know

like awareness thing or intuition you know just shut up and calculate right which was a fine and famous thing and so i'm just uh i think it's you know, the one that thinks it's all internal to you and you don't need the exterior is just as wrong as the one that thinks it's all external to you and you don't need the interior. You need both. Both have to come together. And when they come together, wow, you get the complete picture. And that's the moment of transcendence, you know. And I think it's so critical. so critical that the spiritual community actually integrate the material world, like fundamentally, instead of separating, try to integrate the material world

and that the physics community or the scientific community integrate that there is a component that is non-linear to awareness that they have to integrate in, you know, that is non-linear. and most likely non-local, you know, to consciousness that they have to integrate in their understanding of the mechanics of the universe. We live in such an amazing time where this is this new paradigm is being birthed and I just, I'm so grateful personally

to be in a position where both living in this old paradigm, like, you know, being born before the year, use of like phones to then the rapid development throughout the information age and now humanity's baby steps away from the combination of both quantum computing and artificial intelligence which when combined is going to have incredibly wild implications for our understanding of ourselves and how we navigate the world and I'm just curious your thoughts on artificial intelligence as it relates to consciousness in the coming decade as it's you

you know, we're right here. Humanity is on the birth of this AGI. And I'm just curious what thoughts you think that will have on the world, on one hand, but then also consciousness and understanding of it. This is a complicated issue. You know, I would tend to say, I'm probably going to get in trouble for this, that both these things, quantum computing and

AI are not as advanced as we make it appear to be. Okay. Certainly in the case of quantum computing. And that true artificial, what we call artificial, I don't like the terminology, artificial intelligence,

because I don't think of intelligence as artificial in any case. So meaning that like if we succeed in putting intelligence in the technology, we will have reproduced something that's similar to us, you know, meaning we're like a technology, physical thing that has intelligence, right? that's able to have creative thoughts and all this stuff. And I think that what we have is a really good feedback mechanism for a machine learning experience. And I think, so I'd rather think of it that way.

I don't think that this is truly intelligence, what we have. we have a machine that is able to rectify errors that it's making, right, and able to learn about, you know, the information that it's utilizing. But before the machine start becoming truly creative, I think we're going to have to make the machine something vastly different. So it might more look like a plasma device that has feedback, you know, and that is able to, like, actually interact with the structure of the vacuum. And that's where truly will make a being that's connected, just like we are connected. you know and that will be like artificial intelligence at that point but i think that machine learning

as we have it today what we call artificial intelligence as we have today or machine learning is going to help society fundamentally in the next few decades it's going to advance us you know exponentially. I can see it in physics even. You know, I, you know, the latest versions of chat GPT, you know, like the three version was making, like you couldn't do any physics with it, you couldn't do any math with it. It was making like massive errors. Like it was, it looked good. But then you start looking at you go, whoa, this is not possible. And then so, So it was, but now it's actually quite good. And it's kind of nice when you put my paper in it.

It, you know, it gives its opinion. It's quite correct and so on. And so it's nice and it's going to help us move forward because we can actually now render much more information, much more rapidly, right? Like I asked Chat GPT to like give you the gist of this paper or the gist of this book that's that thick, you know. And then like in 20 minutes, you've got a pretty good idea of the formalism that's used,

how it was done, and all this. It can be very, very useful. And it's going to advance society very fast. In terms of quantum computing and the capacity to compute all this, like I said, I think that quantum computing is going to have to go to a completely different level because the quantum computing that exists today is based on an incomplete theory of quantum mechanics. And when we complete that theory, which I believe is done with the equations I wrote, then you'll see a better understanding of how you should build that quantum,

computer to tap into the zero point energy or the information field so that you can actually use the RAM of your computer is the universal network, you know, space memory network. The memory drive of your computer is the universal network. So then you have true quantum computing. because you're kind of logged on to the universal net. And that's where the feedback is happening instead of the human net. And now you have something that has very, very powerful capabilities.

And, you know, the fear that it's going to take over and go, oh, you know, humans are actually useless. We should get rid of them. well that depends how you're going to grow the baby right right you have a baby babies are pure they're beautiful they don't want to kill anybody they don't want to do anything wrong right but we traumatize our babies and then we make you know awful people out of them like I mean just because they're traumatized they're wonderful people masters in there but they're so traumatized.

They, you know, they're afraid and all this. And so like when we make the first, you know, AI baby, how I think it's going to be pure. I think it's going to be wonderful. It's going to be productive, loving, just like a baby is, right? And if we want to teach it to be mean, then that means we're not evolve enough to have those things. And they might take us over.

But I don't think it's inherent. Right. Yeah, I just think it's a big topic of discussion approaching the metacrisis with the exponential rise and technology and AI without the full capacity of wisdom that's needed to wield it properly. That can be scary. It could be scary.

Yeah, for sure. But it seems like this realm of duality there will always be both spectrums of the possibility, you know? Yes. I mean, let's say tomorrow we access zero point energy and we have infinite amount of energy. Or, you know, what are we doing with it? Are we using it to like be more efficient? at killing each other or are we using it to like elevate all of humanity this is but that does that mean you shouldn't discover it does that mean you shouldn't bring it to the world no of course

not all all have you know you have to evolve because you know there is a limited amount of time for planets to be stable. They don't just stay stable forever, right? Eventually there's a meteorite that hits the atmosphere or there's a sun flare. You know, one little sun flare for the sun, right? The earth is like a grain of sand beside the sun. So the sun just has a little fart, you know, like, you know, for the sun is like nothing, right? And towards the earth, if it hits square towards Earth,

you could just burn the atmosphere. And it would go just, sit. And it would be over. And Jupiter wouldn't even notice. Jupiter would be, what was that? Oh, it was the Earth's atmosphere. Oh, wow. You know?

And then Earth would look like Mars overnight, you know. And so the fact that we're still here talking, about it is fucking remarkable. It's like we're floating in grace. It's amazing that we're here. You have to like if you do the statistics, it looks really bad. And you have to start wondering, is there somebody making sure we're still around? Because like, wow, super stable for that long, you know, there was a meteorite that hit about 12,000 years ago that wiped out a good portion of a society that seemed to have been there before us, right? But so, you know, 12,000 years of stability is quite remarkable, but I don't think we should push our luck.

I think we have a limited amount of time to understand these fundamental principles about creation. I think all society is in the universe, any culture anywhere on any planet eventually has to figure this out because they're going to run out of resources on their planet and the planet is going to change state and wipe out that society. So you have to learn to fly. You have to learn to fly. You have to learn how to control gravity, get into the space, right, live a month, the galactic community and use planets as like the garden of eden that they are and go and visit and have barbecues and have the wonderful stuff but stop putting cement all over them right like you that can go for a little while but it's it's not sustainable yeah man i just i i feel like

throughout this whole conversation, there's been many points where I've got just ignited and super excited about the timing of where we're at currently as a species. And I think it's a Lynn Twist quote that says there's nothing more powerful than an idea that time has come. And right now, it seems like there are certain ideas where it's their time to come because the old outdated mythos of separation and ideologies that have gotten us to a point of the biosphere being destroyed and humanity approaching the metacrisis. We are at a very pivotal point and it can go one of two ways. And I think these emerging ideas are just really important to get out there as they start to come through people like yourself. So just immensely grateful for you sharing

your work with the world and with our audience here. I know they self today. And this has just been such a fun conversation. Like I just, I've loved every bit of this. Me too. Yeah. I enjoy it very much. And I really, you know, encourage your listeners to not dismiss it offhand because it seems so fantastic. But actually dig into it and look and like understand. And so, especially if there are technical people, you know, go and download the paper and read it and read it with an open mind. don't you don't just dismiss it. You can't dismiss the math because it's correct.

Like, you know, there's 60,000 downloads of the paper. This is very rare that there's 60,000 download of a physics paper. And, you know, if there was errors in it, I would have heard about it. Don't, it wouldn't have taken, you know, eight months or whatever to hear about it. So, but you might say, oh, but this is not what I was. told this you know but like just go along and and and and and and vision just hold your judgment and just vision what the what it's saying and the possibility of what it's saying and and I think it can really help transmute like have trust in your feelings in your instinct and your

knowing of what makes sense. And yeah, I would encourage your listener to really like invest in that path. Like don't just talk about it. Don't just, you know, do your little meditation every day. That's good. That's already a huge step. It's a really good thing. But get involved.

Get in there. You know, jump. in like and and like participate whatever it is like you can do to participate participate because we need you we need every one of you you know we need every transcendent human being we need every human being to move towards transcendence it has to become the main you know transformative power It has to become the mainstream. And it is.

It slowly is. It's poking its head everywhere. And it's driving some people crazy. But it's powerful. It's so powerful. And the thing that keeps me going is to see the light comes on in people's eyes when they realize their, nature and their you know profound connection to the whole and um there's nothing like it and that keeps me

going that's for sure i feel that i feel that and i really appreciate your invitation to the audience of to not believe or disbelieve to not dismiss or just quickly embrace but to look with your eye to really to look into it and and know what you're what you're what you're what you say you believe or what you want to embrace to understand why you believe the things that you believe. Yeah. And yeah, just really being empowered in that knowing. Yeah, I mean, people say we're so polarized.

Well, okay, do you really think that it's 100% one side or 100% the other? It's not. There's good in both sides. So how can you can't have a problem? conversation about it. Like, talk about it. You know, it doesn't take anything away from your opinion to talk about it. So talk about it, look at it.

Like, transpose yourself into the other point of view and say, oh, from that other point of view, what does it look like? Oh, oh, it looks like this. But actually, that's pretty good. I could go with this, but I can't go with this. but I can't go with this part. And then, you know, and then like, let's take the good from all sides, from all point of view, and build the new world with it.

Like, we can. We can do that. It's very powerful. I think that's something that I've just tried my best in my life and continue to stay and being squarely sane, sane within the reality. And to do so, your relationship with belief has to change. because belief is often a pacifier for our insecurity of not knowing. And only in admitting our not knowing in admitting our ignorance,

does the possibility of knowing become a reality or a possibility for us? And so I'm just inviting, again, reiterating what you're saying and admitting where we don't know what we don't know. And then examining the different perspectives. The last thing that I just want to, you know, I felt some emotion behind your eyes when you're talking about seeing the light that comes on within other people when they realize they're interested. are connected to the whole.

And it seems like your work has been profoundly motivated and transformed, ignited, by seeing that within other people and seeing the implications that it has on, not just transforming the world, the science, the equations, but people's hearts. And so any last closing thoughts you have around that in particular

as the minds are starting to transform, but so are the hearts. Yeah, so are the hearts. And, you know, the deep feeling of, alignment of the heart with the mind, you know, and the balance that can be occur, you know, that can occur from this. And, and then, and then, you know, the excitement of feeling all this like, wow, the power of this coherent state of like awareness that you can obtain, those clear state of awareness that you can obtain. And then when you're that excited,

right, take it one step back. Take it one step back when you go and share with your friends, family and this, because they might not be ready to hear it. You got to, like, you have to like tune it. to the person you're talking to, right? You got to bring it to a place where it's not so confronting, you know, for them, you know, from their knowing. It's a sense of loving the other, even if you feel that they're going against what you're saying, right?

And I'm not always good at it. Yeah. I guarantee you. I fail at that a bunch of time. But to have that compassion, I practice it, is so critical, you know, to feel that compassion, the appreciation for the other and what they are bringing. And generally, a fundamental sense of appreciation and awe for this incredible miracle of creation that we're in, you know. Just a, and wow, like to take the time every day to actually bait in that, you know, appreciation and the sense of self, of unity, of connection.

And, you know, that is, even if you do it one second a day or two seconds a day, right? Like just like this, like to think, okay, I'm going to center. I'm going to feel that connection. I got to feel that appreciation for my life for everything around me. Like even if it's just a passing thought, it changes everything. It changes everything.

You become like, you know how Einstein was saying, you know, an object is an extension of space. Well, there you become the tool of space, the space, energy, can use you to like, you know, propagate, you know, more appreciation, more love, more connection, more, you know, and that's what drives you, you know, at the end of the day, when you're going to be on the last few breaths of your life, which is at the honor of observing from my father not so long ago, what's going to matter? What's going to matter?

in that moment is how much you loved, how much you felt, how much you experienced, or much you appreciate it. It's all the beauty that your life had in it. So to actually entertain that, you know, even if it's a few seconds a day, it's very powerful. Can't think of a better note to end on. Thank you.

Thank you for that reminder, man. Nassim, I'm just so grateful. for you, for your work, for your heart. And just last, where can people find your work? We'll link everything down in the description, but anything you want to point people towards who want to get more involved with what you're doing in the world. Yeah, so we're at ISF, International Space Federation.

It's spacefed.com, so spacefed.com. And over there, we're publishing articles, you know, every week do we? publish articles and like, you know, keeping people up on the latest discoveries and the things that we're coming up with and all this and so that people can stay in touch. People can become members. We sell, you know, financial instruments to finance or research so people can buy bonds and that is so helpful if people buy bonds. And, you know, there is, um, there is, um, all kinds of ways they can get involved.

We're looking for engineers to help us, electrical engineers, mechanical engineers, other physicists, you know, physicists that want to criticize our paper. We're happy to have conversations with them. You know, whatever you want to get involved with, you can find it at spacefet.com. and we are in Geneva, the headquarters in Geneva,

the laboratories in France. We're on tours, so I go and give talks. I have talks in France coming up, in England coming up. Come and see me, come and talk with me. It's going to be super fun. We have so much fun. I just did L.A. yesterday. We had so much fun.

We finished at 2 in the morning. Yeah, like 2 in the morning. I'm like, wow, we're going to see the sun come up in a minute. You know, like I could have kept going, but then we got kicked off the rooftop, you know. So it was like,

it's, because there's so much to discuss. There's so much to discover together. And it's really when we're together that we can grow and evolve and transform. So, so much appreciation for all the people involved. Yeah.

Thank you again, Nassim and everyone that you're working with for all the work that you're doing. everything you want to, where people can find you will be linked down below. And then just for everybody that's been tuning into this almost three hour conversation, a little bit more, that's great. We just got lost in the black hole there. Man, it's been so awesome to meet more of our community in person recently and just how beautiful they are and how intelligent they are and how caring they are and how passionate they are about learning around so many of these topics that we even discussed in today's

conversation and let us know share in the comments what was most uniquely impactful for you and then also share this episode share this conversation with somebody that you think would find it valuable and that could receive benefit from hearing the words that were shared in conversation today miss sim thank you my man thank you so much so great to be with you appreciate it very much absolutely into this episode of the No They Sell podcast. Thank you. Until next time, be well. Take care.