Know Thyself - E126 - Gabby Bernstein: Rewire Limiting Beliefs, Heal Your Wounded Parts & Find Inner Freedom

Episode Date: December 10, 2024

Gabby Bernstein explores the profound self help practices from IFS (Internal Family Systems Therapy) aimed at helping to release limiting beliefs and unlock inner freedom. She explains the inner parts of ourself that hold us back, influencing our thoughts and behaviors, often originating from an early age. And how by acknowledging and understanding these inner aspects, we can address internal conflicts, heal trauma, and transform limiting beliefs.Gabby shares who we are at our core: the "Self" that is inherently compassionate and capable of healing. She gives a 4 step check in process to use in moments when you're triggered, that will help you start to heal you relationship to these parts.She also opens up about her personal experience with this work and how it helped her to create the life of her dreams (from the inside out).André's Book Recommendations: https://www.knowthyself.one/books___________0:00 Intro 1:46 The Beliefs that Limit You (And How to Unlearn Them)3:42 IFS: A Therapy System for Becoming Whole11:05 Who We Really Are, At Our Core16:49 Protector Parts & Where They Come From23:24 Correlation of Addiction & Childhood Trauma 27:57 The 4 Step Check In Process (Do This When You're Triggered)35:51 Staying Curious in Self Inquiry 38:01 Exiled Parts & The Hidden Traumas we Carry40:04 How Unconscious ‘Parts’ May Serve Us48:46 Awareness Changes Everything: The Process of Becoming Whole53:49 The Part of Herself She’s Trying to Heal59:52 Don’t Spiritually Bypass Yourself1:02:34 Facing Postpartum Depression & Menopause1:09:03 Developing Clarity Through Mindfulness Practices1:11:33 Conclusion___________Renowned spiritual teacher and #1 New York Times bestselling author Gabby Bernstein has been hailed as a “next-generation thought leader," by Oprah Winfrey. Bernstein is the author of nine bestselling books including The Universe Has Your Back, Super Attractor, and her latest New York Times bestseller, Happy Days: The Guided Path from Trauma to Profound Freedom and Inner Peace. Her empowering perspective and compassionate insights inspired The New York Times to call her, “a role model for a new generation of spiritual seekers.” Bernstein is the creator and host of the podcast Dear Gabby, where she connects with her community and offers insightful, real-time coaching, straight talk, and BIG LOVE. Through her presentations and generous Q&A sessions, Bernstein makes a major impact on individuals and organizations alike, and she has been sought-after by groups such as Google, the AOL Build Series, TED Talks, Oprah’s SuperSoul Sessions, and many more.Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gabbybernstein/Website: www.gabbybernstein.comPreorder New Book, "Self Help": https://a.co/d/aA3avAs___________Know ThyselfInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/knowthyself/Website: https://www.knowthyself.oneClips Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJ4wglCWTJeWQC0exBalgKgListen to all episodes on Audio: Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4FSiemtvZrWesGtO2MqTZ4?si=d389c8dee8fa4026Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/know-thyself/id1633725927André DuqumInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/andreduqum/

The journey of healing is a journey of undoing the false pretenses that we've placed upon ourselves and returning to who we really are. All of us, no matter how great our upbringing might have been, we all experienced some form of trauma. Those moments can be so extreme for us as young children that we don't actually have the inner capacity to process those deep experiences of shame or inadequacy or even terror. So as little, little people, we start building protectors. And those protectors could be people-pleasing,

or trying to be seen. And so through the practice of IFS, we dismantle, come, and settle the protectors so that self can emerge. You're recognizing that it's not who you are, it's just a part of who you are. And now here's a four-step practice to do it. The beauty is that now you have a tool

that whenever you think you're going to check out, you can check in, and every time you check in, you expand your connection to self. And the more you trust in self, the more empowered you feel because you're not trying so hard to stay alive. You actually know their safety inside,

and self-con. know. Hey everyone, welcome back to the Know They Self podcast. Our guest today is a multiple times over New York Times best selling author. She explores many themes around psychological healing and spiritual awakening. And I just love her raw honesty and personality as it comes through and sharing her insights along her own personal path. Gabby Bernstein, thanks for being here. So good to be here. I think I have died and gone to podcast heaven with my rose tea. If anyone could just like catapult themselves into this room it's fun yeah come join us grab a cup of tea we're gonna talk healing and all the things best tea i've ever had in my life yeah thank you well where i want to

start today is is hearing your thoughts on something that i've been contemplating and thinking about for a while which is we have subconscious resistance in us to receiving and allowing life to give us love abundance well-being because we have somatic familiarity with scarcity and fear and not a enoughness. And so in life, our mind might say we want things like a relationship, a career, a person to come into it, but our body feels we deserve something else. And so what has been your journey exploring that dynamic? I have been on a particularly about 19 year journey now of unlearning the fear-based beliefs that create the somatic experience of that kind of suffering. and then of course through unlearning the belief systems,

healing the somatic experience, and coming through the other side to know what mental freedom feels like and of course then physical freedom as well because once I have become settled now in my own inner system, my nervous system has settled and my body has settled and my digestion has settled and my physical ailments have settled.

And so I'm living the, goal of where I've been trying to get to. Congrats. Thank you. That's exciting. It is exciting. I'm in the there there. Yeah. Yeah. Often we think there's a there there there. I think a lot of people can relate to, if we want to cultivate true well-being and manifest a life by design, we need to look inwards and see what are those psychological subconscious

programs that need addressing and need loving. And so a big thing of today is conversation is going to be your exploration through IFS internal family systems and parts works because again we might say we want these things and then there are these parts of us that are holding us back into a familiar past and so what is IFS and parts work for people that don't know? IFS is internal family systems therapy. It has nothing to do with your outside family. It has to do with an inner family of parts of who you are. IFS was invented by my very dear friend and mentor and brother, truly like a brother, is Dr. Richard Short. he invented this therapy sort of by accident, truly.

He was a family therapist, and so family systems was his model. And in working with women who were, he had a period of time where he was working with women who were struggling with eating disorders and binging. And they would speak in session about these parts of themselves that would take over, that part of me takes over when I want to binge or a part of me takes over when I want to self-harm, a part of me takes over when I have self-loathing. and then at times they might talk a little bit about this other part of themselves that feels really compassionate towards these behaviors or part of themselves that at times could feel calmer or feel more

connected. And he'd ask them, well, what's that part of you? And they would say, that's myself, that's just self. And what Dick realized was that the same way there's patterns and dynamics and triggers and family relationships, the same was happening to all these parts inside these patients, recognizing that we are not one mono human. We are having an experience of many different parts of ourselves inside, often protection mechanisms, and a lot of extreme patterns and behaviors that have been there for most of our life. You often check in with these parts of yourself and say, how long have you been around? Like, forever, you know?

And if you've ever said it to yourself, you know, a part of me gets really triggered when my girlfriend does this or a part of me gets really triggered when I don't have that job opportunity or whatever it might be. We are actually speaking for almost like a sub-personality. And so to keep this very simple, because that's my gift. And in this new book that we're going to talk about today, I'm taking IFS and with the blessing of Dick Schwartz, making itself help. But to give you the full picture of IFS, the goal is to recognize and honor these, protection mechanisms, which in IFS are called protector parts, and to recognize that who those protectors are protecting. And those protectors are protecting very young exiled experiences from

our past. So all of us, no matter how great our upbringing might have been, we all experienced some form of trauma, whether it's big tea or small tea trauma. In my case, I experienced sexual abuse as a child. That's a big tea trauma. Some people may have experienced a teacher telling them that they were stupid or a poor attachment figure. And that could seem like it's not a big deal. It could be like, oh, that was just like, you know, one time on the playground or one time in the classroom. But those moments can be so extreme for us as young children that we don't actually have the inner capacity or the brain capacity to process those deep experiences of shame or inadequacy or fear or even terror. And so as a result of not having an adult figure to help us process it

and definitely as a child not being able to process it, we unconsciously say, our brain says, never want to feel all that again. I'm going to shut that down completely. And I'm going to do whatever it takes to protect against that feeling. And so as little, little people, we start building protectors. And those protectors could be people-pleasing, or it could be, you know, trying to be seen as a little kid,

you know, constantly asking for attention and wanting to be seen. And now they're like 50 years old and they're like checking their likes all day, you know, thirsty for likes, right? it carries on for decades and decades. And so these protection mechanisms become the extreme patterns that we often shame most in ourselves. And so with IFS, we can start to bring self, which is that part that these women would speak about. They would say, oh, well, sometimes I feel calm and sometimes I feel compassionate. That's just myself. That essence, that Buddha nature, the God within us, the love within us, the compassionate connection. It's like an inner parent.

is always inside of us. And self is just has been blocked by these protectors. And so through the practice of IFS, we dismantle and come and settle the protectors so that self can emerge. And in my book, what I'm doing is making this therapy self-help. It is not an IFS book. It's a self-help book, but now you understand why it's called self-help, right? Because when self-emerges, self-can help these younger parts. And I did that through a four-step process, which we can work on today. I'm really looking forward to diving to that check-in process and the protector parts. But first, you brought up a couple of things that are really important, I think, to set the stage for where I would like to dance with you in this conversation, because this being the know-liself

podcast, there are many different perceptions one can have on who we are and what is self, right? You could have the lowercase s-self, which you might categorize different personality, substructures and subparts that we can work with that are important for characterological growth and human developmental journey. You could say a capital S-self is more of that nature that is, which you mentioned in your book, Self, Help, Those 8Cs, which we can unpack, which really are a deeper pointing to a space that we can hold within us, because we realize that we're not actually our personality. We're not actually, you know, our identification. with our mind, with our body, with our career, and all these things. And so we start to, you know,

dive into deeper aspects of who we are. And I am personally really interested at holding both because life is very paradoxical. And we do have a personality that holds us back and create suffering. And we're also, we have access to a reality that is also beyond it. And so to just kind of explore these a little bit further, one could say the conventional, psychological, work of your personality is important and healing that trauma. And then also waking up to who you are beyond it was kind of like absolute reality. So I feel like we have relative reality. We have that conventional reality. And then we have like the absolute reality that we can tap into through meditation and mindfulness practices. So I guess I would like to just hear your perspective because

self-acceptance, which a lot of the IFS work is surrounding Iran, right, accepting these parts, welcoming them to the dinner table. There's no bad parts. Yeah. Self-acceptance from the kind of absolute view is a project of the divided self, right? And it's in a way, it's kind of like a dog chasing its own tail, meaning the only way to maintain the drama is to pretend that the self to be accepted is somehow different from the self that is accepting. And so it's important to hold that perspective that we are not that. And yet, by giving space and allowing these different parts of us to,

exists and to be with them, it does create more of a sense of freedom in our relative human relational experience. Totally. Just kind of set a lot there, but I do want to get your perspective as we kind of hold both. So before we dive deeper into the protector parts and all of these things, what is your experience of capital S self? Like our true self, what are the eight Cs? So we can have that as a reference point of like home that we're walking back to.

Well, I feel like I have a lot of self energy right now with you. So I'm curious about you and I'm calm here in this beautiful space with my rose tea. And I feel connected to you. I feel like a really nice connection in the room. And I have a lot of confidence. I'm extremely confident right now. I'm really proud of myself. I have a lot of courage in this point in my life.

I'm just like probably if you were asked me, Gabby, what are you most proud of is my courage to have gone to the really dark places and to really tough stuff and to. have healed these tough wounds to come out the other side. And so as I define the feelings that I have in this moment and as I sit here and I imagine that you can feel that presence with you. It's not like you're sitting here and you're like, ah, she's bullshitting me, whatever. She says some nice, saying some nice things. I think you feel that, right? You feel that I'm calm in your presence and I'm connecting and I have a lot of courage to just show up and confidence to be in the room. That energy is self-energy. And so we all have that.

energy. It's within us, it's around us, it's our true nature. And that energy when oftentimes most people only have fleeting moments of that energy, maybe in shavasana, or maybe after a long run, or maybe after a really deep therapy practice, and they feel so much compassion for these parts of themselves. And these are fleeting moments. And most of the time, the majority of people are just living from these protectors to protectors, like something gets triggered, they go into a protection mechanism and they run to the refrigerator or something else gets triggered and they start people pleasing or something else gets triggered and they start controlling and we live managing our lives all day long and when we're in these managerial roles we don't have access to this calmness

and this presence that I can have with you right now and that connection and that creativity it's very childlike like if you hang out with dick schwartz who's founded iFS he's been doing this for so many years he's like a 73 year old man it's like being with like a 10 year old like it's so childlike and joyful. And I know I'm in self when I'm feeling that joy. You know, last night, I had a girlfriend looking at me and we were at dinner and I was looking at the menu and I was like, I think I want the tacos. I was like, but I definitely want the abuela chicken soup. And I was like, I definitely want that soapa. And I was going so excited about it. We were just like speaking in Spanish, and I was just having the best time. And she looked at me and she goes, Gabby,

you're having so much fun. She's like, it must be so fun living your life. life. And I said, I can say that I'm having a lot of fun now, but it took a long time to get here. And so through the journey of identifying these protector parts inside myself and offering them the gentle inquiry and getting to know them and offer them connection and compassion and curiosity through the journey of IFS and many other modalities, spiritual practices and different therapies, but particularly IFS, I've been able to help these parts of myself. I've been able to help these parts of myself become less extreme. And as they are no longer in that managerial role of trying to control everything, they can relax, and in that relaxed state, self can emerge. And so the best way to define

self is just to offer it to you here and say, well, how do you feel hang out with me right now? Self begets self. Yeah. Right? Yeah. And honestly, you meet a lot of interesting characters is doing this podcast thing, and there is a saying, those who know, knows who know, meaning stillness, no stillness, right? And calmness knows calmness, curiosity. Like, a lot of these qualities, once you're in like a quiet place within yourself, you see how noisy other things around you can be, especially people. Yeah. And so self-recognizes self. That's right. For sure. Yeah. And self-ignites self and others, right? So if I had showed up here and I was like all frazzled and, you know, kind of freaking out and like, you know, try to.

to control the setting and being a little bit, maybe how I might have been three years ago or something, right? Because I was into many other parts then. I would have pulled it off. I'm a professional. I would have gotten into connection, but it might have taken me a little bit longer. And maybe you would leave with a different experience of me and maybe the greatest virtues of you might not even have been able to develop because we are always vibrating at each other's access to self. And when you're around people, then they're in that energy of self, you feel calmer, you feel more creative, you feel more confident. It's just it has a ripple effect.

It's beautiful. Yeah, it's like, I think we can even look externally in the world and see a lot of tragedy that's happening and like how can we play our part in bringing healing to the world. And a lot of the, I think, old paradigm of thinking of things is like removing darkness in the world. And instead of, you know, trying to take darkness out of a room, simply turning your own light on. Yes, my friend. And so, yeah, we're lights that are turning on. And we really illuminate the path for others in so many ways.

And like you mentioned, it's a journey to get there, you know, from the head to the heart. And there are all these parts within us that keep us kind of stuck in old personalities where we had a thwarted childhood developmental experience that stays with us. And so I know it's been a journey getting to this place. Yeah, good time. And I want to unpack as this can be really supportive. The process that we're going to go into, the context that we're going to give for healing and revealing your true self is really so important. So what are protector parts? Let's start there so I can understand that.

Yeah, well, I can continue to just sort of use my journey as an example, also to let your viewers who may not be familiar with me know that just sitting here in this self-energy now did require a commitment, a commitment to my inside. And really from the early days of becoming a spiritual teacher when I was 25 years old, I began this journey. I actually really think I became a spiritual teacher when I was 14 because I was running the Jewish youth groups in my region. And I would lead those like a spiritual Sherpa at the temples. And like 400 kids would come and like have sleepovers. I was like leading it. And I think I even knew then this is my Dharma.

And but I really turned my back on my spiritual faith from from a child. experience. My mom brought me up visiting ashrams and she taught me to meditate as a child and I had a lot of spiritual imprints. But by the time I was in my early 20s, I picked up a lot of protectors. And I had probably had them all throughout high school and throughout my life. And they were really protectors like love addiction. I felt like if I'm not in a relationship, I might die. And I remember one day I was feeling so much shame around that love addiction. My friend, my best friend from high school said to me, this is when I was in my early 20s, he said, you know, Gabby, you're never single. What's wrong with you? You're never single. And I was like, oh, that's really

shameful. I don't like that feeling. And so I said, I'm going to put down that. And what happened the next day? I picked up cocaine. Transferred protectors, right? So I was some, for some reason, that relationship made me feel safe from some impermissible feeling. And that was how I was protecting myself. And then when I put that down, I picked up the Coke. And then when I picked up the Coke, you know, that was a big, hard bottom. I hit bottom fast by the grace of God 25 years old, 19 years ago to this month. And when I got clean and sober, I took away the drink and the drug, but then I had all these other protectors that started to immerse, right? So workaholism and people pleasing and other controlling. So I had all these other protectors keeping me in place.

And then about 10 years into my sober recovery and about six or seven books in and, you know, having this teacher, being a teacher, I was 36 years old, I was deep in my career, I had a dream. And in that dream, I remembered being sexually abused as a child. And all throughout my recovery of my sobriety, I was like, why did I use? You know, like, why? Like, I had a great child. Why did I use? I was dissociating. And that, that is a protector as well. So the memory helped me really solidify the reason why the inciting incident, the trauma that led me to, one of the traumas that led me to protect myself in these ways. And then as I continued to journey in my trauma recovery, I began to peel back the layers of the onion

and recognize that these protectors were so, so, so extreme that even though they led to cocaine addiction or shameful love addiction or workaholism that burnt me out or extreme controlling patterns that might have harmed other people emotionally that I could have compassion for all of these parts of myself because they were working so, so hard to push down that impermissible feeling from my childhood and to hide it. And then when it emerged, I had no other choice but to face it.

And so the past nine years, I've been really deep in my IFS work, my trauma recovery and of course my spiritual development. And what I'm so proud of is that courage to do that. So just to define protectors from that place, there's different types of protectors, right? There's managers that are like going to control everything to feel safe. And a manager could also be a part of you that's kind of type A or a part of you that's like, you know, every time I feel triggered, I'm going to just rage at someone. But then when those managerial patterns stop working and there's a really big trigger, breakup, or a family member shows back up in your life, or something scary, we're going to turn to the other types of protectors, which is the firefighters.

And the firefighters are the, when they're putting out the fire. That's the addiction. That's the suicidal ideation. That's the dissociation, like I had. And so, as you can see through my journey, I've had many moments of protectors becoming, you know, one's going to be pushed down by another, another one steps in and they're all kind of at odds with each other, these parts of myself, right? So I've got this shameful part that's judging the control freak because she was mean to her staff one day. Or, you know, the other part that's like, why are you so anxious? You're supposed to be a spiritual teacher. And then, and then, you know, all the while still doing great work in the world while having so much suffering.

And so that's an important message to people is that you can still be a transformational presence in the world even while you're going through your own work. I think that's important. Yeah. Because we can often be under the illusion that there's just one day when I reach full enlightenment I'll finally be able to serve others. No. It's a disservice. No, I think that we serve through our stories and our stories are what heal.

Exactly. Is sitting in the seat of wherever we are in that moment, that's when we are giving the gift. And so, listen, I've written 10 books in 14 years. And a lot of my controlling parts did those, wrote those books up until this most recent one. and as much as that was a controlling and writing a book on an airplane while I was on the book tour of the last book, you know, of the last book, it wasn't, it wasn't, it was an extreme way of living, but it was also creative and it was also in the service of others. There's also in the service of myself. I wrote these books for myself first. And so you two things can be true. You can be going through deep suffering and doing extraordinary creative things in the world and healing things in the world. And I think most creatives would say that some of their real, most healing work came from times of their own healing in the creative process. So much so. Yeah, I have a lot of artist friends. I've seen firsthand, even in my own life, you know, the creative process is such a process of self-discovery. It's a really a gift to be

able to share that process with other people, even just sharing your own story of what you're struggling through and maybe what insights you've learned along the way, that's just immensely helpful for people. Addiction, like you mentioned, is important to look at how. how it's solving a problem within our own psyche. Like, it's getting something right, meaning it's giving this release of tension from self. Yeah. And it's not release of tension.

Just for semantic sake, for what we're saying here with IFS, it's release of tension from the exiled feeling. So we've got this extreme childhood extreme feeling that we'd never want to, we lock it up. We're like, go in the basement, bye. And then we have these protection mechanisms to block it. And when those are not really working, we go to addiction, would be a very extreme one.

And the addiction would say, I've got to put the fire out. I don't want to feel that anymore. I'm going to numb that out. What was your journey then moving through that addiction and seeing other people go through their own process of addiction lies on a spectrum, and there are many things that we can find ourselves addiction to? Personality is like the deepest one, perhaps, that we're addicted to fundamentally who we have been.

And so how does examining these parts, allowing them, welcoming them to the dinner table, start to diffuse the whole addiction we perceive has on us. That's a really nice question. When I was writing this book, I was... Which, by the way, self-help. Self-help. This is your chance to change your life. Apply named.

And when I was writing self-help, I was also had the privilege of being a fellow at a recovery center. And so every month I would go and I would give talks at this recovery center. And each month there would be a new group of 100 or 150 addicts that would enter because it was like a 21 day program. And there would be a new group of people coming through. And so they'd oftentimes be a day or two days clean and sober. Maybe I'd meet them in their first week of sobriety. And the rooms were just filled with shame and blame and detox and you'd walk in.

And this was the work that I was workshopping with them because I often would workshop whatever I was writing. at the time because it's on my mind. And I'd enter these rooms and I would open up with something pretty bold and a little bit risky, but I felt like I had enough self-presence to do this with them. And I would say, first and foremost, I am you. I know you, I recognize myself and you.

And I would make that connection. And then I would invite them to share openly or just raise their hand or just get honest with themselves. And I'd say, how many people in this room have experienced some kind of adverse trauma as a child? And everybody in the room would raise their hand. And then I would ask them to really recognize that for a moment. And then I would say to them, well, that's really difficult stuff to ever have to face.

And so wouldn't it make sense that we would do whatever it takes to put out that fire? Wouldn't it make sense that we would go to all lengths to not have to feel that? And everyone would sort of nod their head and be like, yeah, that makes sense. Like, I would have to just put that out. And then I said, well, if we were going to any length to put out that fire, and that led us to addiction, can you have a little possibly open your mind now to see that addiction as something

that was trying to protect you? And half the room would be like, no, my addiction's terrible. I'm a piece of shit. And that's where they are. I mean, to ask them to see it differently in that moment might be too extreme. But I'd see the other half of the room

and they'd be like, for a second, you know, a split second, yeah, maybe I've been using to numb this thing out. And I'm not actually a horrible person. person. I'm just a wounded person who's been trying to put out the flames. And as the hour would go on, we might be able to get a little bit more and more connected to that addiction. And so I think that if any addicts are listening or people who are loved ones of addicts, or we all have our own

forms of addiction, if you can even just simply reframe it for a moment and say, oh, you know, every time I go to the sugar, I'm going there because, you know, I'm triggered by something, or there might be something underneath that. I mean, I'm curious. Or maybe you have more. You have more awareness and you know that you're drinking over your childhood wounds and you could say, well, I have a lot of compassion for myself when I pick up a drink. That's an opening. These are openings to start to open up a new perspective of the why behind the pattern. So a tool that I think would be good to highlight here, which really just makes it extremely practical in our own daily life and application of all this, is we can have the awareness

of these behavioral adaptations and addictions that we have, small or big, right? And a question that I've heard you refer to as well that can be really supportive is just asking how is this trying to help you, right? How is this part trying to help you? Yeah, I'm grateful that you ask because, in fact, I'll just take you through the steps because the four steps, it's called a four-step check-in in the self-help book. And the four steps are designed to help you become curious. and compassionate and connected to the part of you.

So let's say that something may activate me in the moment. Maybe my husband says something and it super triggers me. And I have enough awareness now to say, okay, you know what's like? I'm going to separate myself for a moment. Let me just step away because this is going to get ugly if I don't. Because I have a part that I call knives out. And when my husband triggers that part, knives are fucking out, man. Okay?

So I might say, okay, knives out's about to step in. So I'm going to step aside, right? So then I have enough awareness now. Most of the time we don't have that, and for many, many years I haven't, but I've done enough of this work now that it's in my system. I can see, oh, I'm not going to a good place. Let me step away. So I could step away and I could do the four-step check-in process.

And so the first step would be to choose to check in. And that choice began by separating myself. And the choice to check in is instead of checking out by knives out, losing my shit on him, you know, just projecting and unconsciously reacting, unconsciously reacting, becoming so blended with the reaction, becoming so righteous in the reaction to a very dark place, which could affect our six-year-old and affect him and affect the bond that we have. So instead of going into knives out, I can choose to check inside instead of checkout. That's step one. And that's when you focus your

attention inward. Which to expand that space there between stimulus and response. Exactly. Yes. A tool that I think is really supportive for that is our breath. Like to be able to respond consciously instead of the unconscious reacting. Yeah. And in fact, there's a, even, we can come back to this. Let's put this on the shelf. There's a chapter in the book about prayer and how that could even be the first step before the first step, right? So we can get to sort of how you get to step one. That's like a whole other topic. I love that you brought that up. Because a lot of times it's just immediate reaction. Most of the time you're not going to have the awareness. That's why I want the reader to start to do this with small things, right? So let's

keep it more simple for someone that's having their own experience. Like maybe they're at work and their boss says something a little bit sideways and it makes them a little triggered and they're like, I could go off and be mad about this all day, or I could choose to check it. Okay, Gabby Bernstein wrote this book. I'm going to follow the book. I'm going to choose to check it. Go to the bathroom. You choose to check in.

Or with any other things that we're struggling with in our life, for example, drinking alcohol and there's this urge from seemingly nowhere inside of us that says, grab the bottle and we just do it, right? Right. Or pornography. And it's just, you just go straight to it. Expanding the space in between the choice is, I think, really important here. So we can come back to that.

Let's have a whole conversation just on that. Okay, because that's a whole other level, and I'm excited about this. So step one is choose to check in, assuming we had the space. So the stimulus in the space was enough. And we then would do step two, which is to become curious about that part of us that's up. So in the case of Knives Out, you know, Knives Out's trying to come through. I'm going to choose to check in, and I become curious. Okay, where does it live in my body? It's in my chest, like always in my chest, like rageful. It's in my jaws clenching. My fists will. sometimes even go like this when knives out. Is there? Like I can physically take on the physicality of that part. And I can ask that part, you know, what do I know about you? Like, how long have you been around? And it's like going to be like forever, Gabby, we've been here forever. And then I'm going to ask the part, you know, what else do you want me to know? Are there any images or sensations? And then I see myself as a little girl. And it comes to my mind and I see myself just screaming and screaming because my

pig tails aren't straight. And I just need to control everything. And I just need to feel safe and feel in control. And so I get a little bit more information. I just keep sourcing this information about this part. And as soon as I feel slightly connected to the part with the images and the feelings and the sensations, the third step is to compassionately connect. And that's when you'd ask that part of yourself, what do you need? And in asking what do you need, these parts are going to reveal the most beautiful responses. They'll say things like, I need to rest. I need to play. I need to, I need to, I need to to ask for support. I need to speak up. I need to be heard. And that inquiry alone offers these young parts, the little parts, they're young. Such awareness and presence. And then the fourth step is

to check for the sea qualities of self. And the reason that you want to check is you want to see, like, oh, like, how am I feeling better now? And so you would check back in with your system and you'd say, am I feeling a little bit more calm? Do I feel connected to the part? Do I feel a little bit more compassionate towards myself or the other. Do I have courage to speak up? Do I have a connection, confidence, creativity? And you just start going down that list of those eight Cs and you see if you have any presence of that self-quality inside of you. And typically, if you're doing this often, self will continue to emerge more and more and more. And the beauty is that now you have a tool that whenever you think you're going to check out, you can check in,

and every time you check in, you expand your connection to self. And as you start to expand that connection to self, you have more and more trust in self. And the more you trust in self, the less extreme you are. And the more you know where to turn. And the more empowered you feel because you're not trying so hard to stay alive, you actually know there's safety inside. And self can help.

Beautiful. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, just we'll reinstate because I think it's important that we hit the bullet points again. Let's do it, yeah. For people to write down, we'll put it on screen. Check in process. Number one, notice when a part is activated, like feeling anxious or critical. Step two.

Well, then choose to check in with it. Choose to check in. Step one. Number two, get curious about it rather than fighting it. Step three, ask what it's trying to do for you. Yeah, so compassionately connect and say, what do you need? what do you need? Listen to what it needs would be the way.

Ask it for what it needs. Bring compassion to it from yourself. Yeah. And what I want to point out is that the four steps, and this is why this is an IFS, this is IFS informed self-help. To be really clear, IFS would be a similar inquiry inside,

but it's guided by a therapist, and it's teasing out. It's a much more in-depth process, and it's many differences. What I'm using here are, self-like qualities to apply towards your inner condition. And so you lean on these self-like qualities, which is the choice to check in, and the curiosity to inquire about who this part is, and the compassionate connection of asking what do you need, and then the checking for the C qualities. So leaning on these

qualities of self to guide you through this four-step process allows that energy of calmness and connection and curiosity to emerge naturally. Curiosity, compassion, calmness, clarity, creativity, connection, courage, confidence. Eight C's, so you get that right. If you got all eight, then we're right. He's always going to miss a seat. Yeah, those are great reference points. You know, even curiosity, like, it's a subtle shift that makes a huge world of a difference

instead of this automatic dismissal energy, which we can often have with these perceived negative parts of self, right? It's like, I don't want to deal with that. right, just push it away. Yeah. Instead, you're just like, okay, like, I don't need to accept you yet, but like I'm curious a little bit about it. You know, it's funny, I've been noticing even in myself, I'm such a fixer.

Like, I have a fixer part, right? Because I just have such knowing that like, these things can help. And I'm always wanting to sort of be like, you know, even if my husband has like indigestioners like, I'm like, try this supplement. You know, like, I'm a fixer. I want to give solutions. And that's how many people always want. And that's not what parts want.

You know, parts want to be seen and they want curiosity. And I mentor a young woman. and she'll call me and she has a very huge career. And she'll call me and she'll say this and she'll say that. And I'll immediately go into like, well, let's fix this because you've got a tour. I'll just be like fix, fix, fix, right? And I noticed the other day when she called me, I said, can we just be curious? And so instead of going into like pouncing on these parts, I would say, well, how do you feel about that?

Or what is that wanting you to know? Or is there something that you think is being revealed here? and I could see how much more beneficial I could be to support her in that seat of curiosity rather than the seat of trying to fix. And so imagine, and that little kids, too, like if you've ever been around a child and my son is six years old, if I try to just be like, do this, do that, he's like, screw you. But if I ask him, well, how do you feel about that?

Or what is it that you need right now? Then that curiosity creates space for his truth to come forward. And the thing is that it's sometimes easy for us to do that with others, But we never would consider doing that with ourselves. All day long, we're going to say, either shame or blame ourselves for having these patterns or try to fix things really fast. But instead, offering that curiosity. Yeah, I feel like this applies both completely to self and these parts within us,

but then also supporting others because we can. I have also had the tendency to want to fix something. When somebody comes to me with a problem, like, I'm smart, I got it. I can help you decode this, right? And oftentimes it's not only not what the part wants. but it's not what the part needs, right? Instead of saying, how can I fix this, asking what does it need? And often it's like to be with it for a second.

Just to be heard. Yeah, just to be with it for a second. You know, my husband will ask me, it's really helpful. He'll say, do you want my advice or do you want me to listen? And that's great because sometimes I want his advice. Yeah. Sometimes I just want him to listen. It's so great.

So when it relates to the now internal process of this, picking back up, making space for this first and foremost, like again there can be often the resistance and dismissal of these parts that we just don't want like and there are these exiled parts you know and so what are exiled parts and then let's talk about how we can start to make space for these more well in the book and in my work I don't touch exiles I want you to know that they're there and I want you to understand that the protectors are protecting the exiles but the reason I don't want to go to the exiles because the exiles are the traumatized parts they're the little traumatized children they're the experiences that were so important

permissible. We're so scary, so shameful, so fearful, so traumatizing that we will do, we live our whole lives trying to avoid them and to protect against them. And the reason I don't want to touch them is because I want to teach people how to relate to the protectors. And as the protectors begin to relax, they become a little bit more and more curious about the exiles, and that might guide them to IFS therapy or to another form of therapy, they can do one-on-one work with a trauma therapist or someone who specializes there. Because it's very frightening when people are in the world, like self-help people that aren't licensed and don't have the ability to handle or hold the space that are like, I'm a trauma person,

or let's rip off the Band-Aid. Like, you better run the other fucking way if somebody says that to you. Because these parts are being hidden for a reason. It's like pressure cooker. If you just turned off, if you just start to open the pressure cooker, it would explode. We don't want to explode. There's protection mechanisms that are doing a really good job, keeping the big feelings at bay, and we just want to calm these protection mechanisms, and as they start to calm,

then we build up more self. We become safer inside, and in that safety, then we have more presence to bring to the exiles. So the exiles, they need our support, but I recommend IFS therapy for that. It feels like if we have a wound externally on us, it needs the right environment to heal. And those internal wounds similarly need that right environment,

which is important to have the caution, right? Because if you try to fix it or do something rash right off the bat, it can worsen the wound, you know? Yeah. If you have an exile and you just try to go into it or you go do like some kind of journey or something and your trauma just emerges and then you come out of it and you're like, I'm living in it.

You become blended in it again. When I remembered my trauma from my childhood, for many months, I was living in the little girl. I was so blended with that girl. And thankfully, I had all the resources and the therapy. And listen, not everybody's going to be able to have access to a therapist. And thankfully, there's more services these days that make it more affordable. But not everyone's going to have access.

And this book may be all they have. And so still the suggestion would be just begin by doing the inquiry with these protectors. Don't go straight to the exile. because the exile is a little scared. It's not even a little scared. It's terrified. And we want to not rip off that band-aid. It feels like we often can have a fear of losing our parts.

And it can make logical sense to us that, like, you know, this part's not serving me. So, yeah, let's heal it or maybe get rid of it, right? Which is its own illusion. often these parts are what have driven our ambition to become successful or get many things that we like in our life. Totally. And so we have this fear of, if I heal this part or let go of this part, then what about all these other things that I've garnered?

And so what do you think about that? Because I've seen this so many times, right? So many amazing comedians, right? We're traumatized deeply and coped by being able to make their mother laugh, for example. Like Robin Williams is a powerful example. And, you know, there's this deep feeling of if I, if I, if I, you know, I'm not, you know, If I'm okay with not being funny, you know, are these parts that I heal, then my whole life has been built by traumatized aspects. Well, the good news is that we're not trying to get rid of parts. We're just trying to calm them down.

So, for instance, my controller wrote 10 books in 14 years. We don't want to stop her. She's going right now, after I leave you, to go write another book at a commune when I go spend two days finishing a book, right? As I'm launching this one. And that's because there's inspiration. That's because there's, there's joy. That's because I have the space inside of me. I'm a medium. I'm channeling this material. It's coming through me. I have to allow it. So it's beautiful. And had that been me writing a book five years ago, I would have felt like I have to get on the plane and get that book done or get to the next place to finish it. I have a deadline. Right now, I'm like, I've got two days and space. I'm going to go take those two days. And I'm going to hide in a little cabin and drink

nice coffee and going to channel a book. And so, That is really different. So the controller needs to still be in my life because she has a lot of things she has to do, right? My controller part had, you know, was in Phoenix yesterday giving a talk. She's had nine podcasts in L.A. She's writing a book this weekend

and then she's going to Denver on Monday to give another talk. And then she's going to go home and have Halloween with her son. So she's got to be sort of in control, right? But she doesn't have to do it in such an extreme way. She's not burnt out anymore. She's not so controlling that she's so unpleasant. to be with. She's not so controlling that she's projecting onto the future and making other people

around her crazy. She's in a place where she's where the part, the controlling part is I call it a she. My parts are women, female. And they can have different genders of minor female, where that part of me is so settled now that she can do the great work. She's not stopping any time soon. She'll be working until she's 100. And she can do the great work in a less extreme way. But I don't want her to go away because I got things to do in this lifetime. If she just disappeared, I'd be sleeping, right? Yeah. Well, let's push. I want to push back a little bit. I can rename them. She's not a controller. Now she's just like an untethered force of light. Right. It feels like there's different places in which these energies can come from, right?

Jumping into, for example, writing a book because you have this feeling of needing to control reality and scarcity of, if I don't do it, I won't make enough money or, you know, I won't be as famous or whatever the thing is, right? versus I have space, I have this inspiration that's like kind of evoking from within. And you can feel the texture of both energies once you've experienced them both. One is coming from fear and another one's coming from love fundamentally, right? And so do you still label that part of being a controller to write your next book? Because I feel like it's actually like a deeper aspect of us that is inspired to go and do it. Well, the controller part that wrote 10 books in 14 years, I didn't try to make that part

shamed and blamed, I helped it calm down. And so I can rename it. Like I said, now it's an untethered force of light. And she's, you know, creating in a really cool space. Or instead of the controller, I could maybe call her like the, like the badass, you know, get stuff done with joy kind of thing. You know, whatever you want to rename it. I don't care. But it's, it's that that essence is still part of me. I can get a lot done. I can expand time. I can be a boss. I can run a team. I can be a mom, I can travel, I can come to you and the next hour be working in writing, I can also rest, but I can do it in a less extreme way now. So the part has grown up, the part has emerged, the part has had a chrysalis, truly. And so it's not saying that we stop these parts, right?

Like my addict part is no longer active inside of me, and now I can see that part as like finding this like extreme joy in things instead of extreme, you know, checking out, right? So I think that that's important though. It's important to identify that these parts of us don't need to go away. They're not bad. They have to just be unburdened and they can take on a new form. Well, it's really an interesting, I guess, thought experiment for me is because we have these parts that we can gain awareness to and that we feel shame around, for example. But I really feel that there is this kind of divine guidance, divine design, whatever word you want to use, whether

it's the law of cause and effect or God or the universe or life. In a way, our wounding drives us to develop these amazing skill sets and things that become useful in our life's purpose and our drama. So there's actually a function that is useful and you can develop amazing skill sets that aren't obviously driven from traumatized parts, right? But oftentimes there's amazing capacities and skill sets and things we learn about ourselves that are useful on the other side of of being on our healing journey. And I just think that's a really important thing because it invites a little bit more gratitude

for the path and for the parts where we've been transgressed because it's good to feel, like have a healthy amount of pride for the version of us that drove us to do the things that we did. Absolutely. I mean, I'm so proud and grateful for these extreme parts of myself because they've done good work in the world

and they've got me to where I am today and they've brought me to my knees so that I could heal. And there's only love and connection to these parts of myself. And I'm so grateful that they had a presence in my life and that they have now become more safe. And I'm not in any way saying that I don't have extreme parts anymore. I'm just saying that I have a new way of relating to them. And that it's really very, a lot of this freedom inside is very new for me also.

Really even like a few weeks new. I've even noticed it in my marriage, just like having that space to step away and to just witness. And we have to come back to the space between the stimulus and the response, right? Most people may not have the space to even slightly adjust from being triggered and going into the protection mechanism, to the protector part. So that's why I'm going to say when you first start this book, do it with the parts that's around all the time that you have enough awareness of. like anxiety is a good one. Like checking in with your anxiety, you know what you can voice, oh, I'm anxious right now. And so there's a whole chapter in the book called anxious parts.

And so you can just, the next time you notice that your anxiety is really taking over and you're willing to do whatever it takes, read that chapter and check in with your anxious part and give it attention. It feels like awareness in and of itself starts to slowly unwrap these things. Totally. Totally. Like even just saying I see you, you know, and just noticing it. Totally.

Because what we often try to do with these extreme patterns or these feelings is we try to push them down or numb them out or avoid them or shame them. And instead, what if we just looked at the part and said, oh, I see you anxiety. I know that you're there. Maybe we can choose to check in with you. What you're doing also is you're recognizing that it's not who you are. It's just a part of who you are. And that we're always doing the best we can with the level of awareness that we have. one of, I guess, a part of myself personally has been like perfectionism and trying to get things

like so perfectly aligned in their, in both their function and their appearance and as well with myself. And even just like recently having bigger awareness on this, on this part of myself, and feeling so proud for the version of Andre that was like so driven at such a young age to create this life for himself. And he's, he did like, I feel, I feel grateful for him. He's created a really abundant, beautiful life around him. And the tension, the subtle tension that shows up sometimes in my life of altering my behaviors in any way to be perceived a certain way, like, just change in any way. Just making more space, I found personally, making more space for that and just examining

it and just having awareness for it to allow it to be there has diffused the energy in which it's coming from and giving me more access. to self as well. Yeah, totally. I even think about starting this podcast. The original podcast art that I kind of created from the start was very, it's like very spiritual looking. It's got like sacred geometry in the background.

And I could see part of myself that was projecting onto like that, for example, of like who I wanted to be and become. And the more that I'm growing on my own path, the more that I see, like I've embodied a lot of kind of who I've desired to become, you know? And I have the desire less. to be seen as like a spiritual person because of that, you know? Beautiful. Yeah, I think that the pretences that we place upon ourselves are also protectors. And the journey of healing spiritually and therapeutically is a journey of undoing the false pretenses that we've placed upon ourselves and returning to who we really are.

And making that space, like we keep coming back to, right? between the stimulus and response, there is that space which we can have a choice and we can expand it. It's a win to notice that space, even in the most subtle moments. Even just noticing that space and just seeing it for a moment is a huge win. Starts to grow. That's the whole point of this check-in process, because the more you check in, the less you check out, the more space you create. And then the easier it is, like any habit, to choose to check in instead of check out. it seems like we feel there's like this revolutionary like healing process where our issues won't

happen in our reality anymore and it invites a lot more spaciousness with what you're sharing to like it's a subtle repattering awareness and it's like it's a gentle process instead of this huge revolution you know which might feel like in the moments but um yeah it just invites more patience on the path which is great and it allows you to look at the difficult extreme parts of yourself and say, okay, what do we have to learn? What do you want me to know? We got some work to do. Like, this is a great opportunity. Listen, they don't call it self-help for nothing, right? It's self-help. It's having the courage and the bravery to say, I see that there's something that's happening inside and I want to take a look at it. And now here's a four-step practice

to do it. How have you balanced the psychological work with the spiritual realization aspect of this because there are these parts of us that hold us back in our personality and different things. And yet we were speaking to the reality of us that is deeper that encompasses that, right? Like the blue sky that holds all the personality substructures that are the clouds and the weather and all of this. And so how do you balance not reifying and further solidifying and identifying as these parts, but building a relationship with it that allows it to free it? Because it almost feels like it serves a purpose identifying and feeling these parts of yourself. And then that is almost what gives it permission to dissolve more. Well, I like what you said. There's this beautiful

concept in IFS of getting into relationship with the part. And the more that we can get into a relationship with these parts of ourselves, we can stop blaming them and we can just keep connecting to them. And that's the greatest relationships you'll ever have because you're looking at yourself every day and you're like, okay, I've got this world of little children inside of me and they need my attention and I can relate to them because I've got a tool and a practice to do that.

And it becomes safer and safer and safer to do it. It's really beautiful. Yeah. Is there a part of you that you feel you need to make space for more now today than most? Yeah, I mean, there's a big part of me that's been lingering for a long time and only in the last maybe five days as it started to really settle.

Okay, it's fresh here, fresh material. It's this part that's been around forever, and its voice is saying, if I don't do it, nobody else will. And I've been working with her for many years, and I've had some big breakthroughs with her recently in my IFS therapy and on my own. And in that I've also become a different point of attraction and having those breakthroughs. And so in that new state of my energy, I was able to actually start attracting some new, talent to my team and people that I really trusted and, you know, people like Josh, who's in the room with us right now. And for the first time, a VP of marketing, I feel really confident about and just feel like I can hand things off to him. And I wouldn't have been able to attract that kind

of person into my life if I hadn't done the work to undo that belief. And to speak for that part, you know, to even say to my team, you know, I know I'm being a little controlling right now, but it's just that part of me that still believes this dot, dot, dot, thank you for your patience. And the part in this moment feels really steady. And she still gets triggered when something isn't done the way she wants it or when she's sort of like, you know, we should be doing so much more. Like, why am I not getting the most out of this situation? And she's still present and still active and I'm going to keep working with her because she's not complete.

But she's feeling so much more settled than she ever was before. I was on the phone with my VP of marketing this morning, and I was getting my makeup done and talking to him for an hour. And at the end of it, I was like, you know, bro, I think I might cry right now, but I was like, I feel so good inside to know that I can really trust that you're going to do what you believe is right with this. And it may not be exactly the way I would have done it, but I trust you to do it. And that's like, I explained to him, like, this is a really big deal for me to trust somebody in that way. And I have plenty of people on my team that I did, but in the marketing, side is really hard. It's a hard, hard person to hire for. But the fact that he's there in his presence

and he started crying on the phone and we were just like having this really beautiful email moment. My makeup artist is like, this is the most beautiful moment. He's just listening to it on speakerphone. It's like, this most beautiful moment I've ever heard. And it really was because I got to express my gratitude for him, but also for myself being able to let him do his thing and to be a partner, not a dictator. And this is a part that I've been working with for so many years. This part has really been harmful at work, right? She's really shown up.

She's really been scary. She's not made people feel safe. And even if she's a good person and they love her, they're still unsafe. And she's really settling. And it was just a beautiful thing to witness. It seems like anybody who's done, anything, you know, substantial in life has been able to do so because I'm an amazing team behind them. And I feel like even in my own journey with building a team, there is this fear that we can't have of somebody not doing it up to par of where we would want in the process of delegation and building a team and partners where it feels like you can trust.

It's a real thing that I think a lot of people struggle with as they build their career is finding often these controller parts that just want to get it right and we'll probably do it better if they do it themselves. but being okay with it being done at 80 to 90% of what you thought it would have been. And it seems like it's really needed if you want to scale. Because you can't. Yeah. I mean, one of my next ventures is going to create a training called self-impact training, where I'm going to teach leaders, whether it's a business leader, a thought leader, or a life coach or entrepreneurs, how to lead and do their work from a place of self.

And how to make an impact. because the impact that we want to make can only really be made when we have an impact on our inner world. So using this tool from this book and other practices that I've developed over the years of recognizing where true impact really comes from. And a lot of that is learning how to relate to your parts and heal your parts so that you can relate to others in a way that's empowering and safe and curious and calm and compassionate and connected and creative. Because when you're not there, you're in your parts and you're showing up to your one time my therapist said to me, I think it might be best if your 10 year old self didn't show up. Your 10 year old part didn't

show up to work anymore. I was like, that might be a good idea. I think all this work is just bringing us back so much so into our heart and it's like a feeling of freedom that is our birthright that feels like a lot of work sometimes to get to, but we get glimpses of it more and more and it starts to become the reality in which we live. And it's such an amazing place to live. life from. And I think for those of us that taste it more of a predominant reality, we're passionate about sharing others in helping to whatever degree we can, guiding them back into that place of realization because this life is such a gift and tomorrow is not promised. And to embody more of that energy, let more of self come through is so amazing. And just thank you so much for your

continued dedication towards sharing your process to run it all. Yeah. Well, thank you for for being in self with me today. My honor, my pleasure, actually, literally. This conversation was amazing and flew by. So fast. So fast. But let's just create a little bit of spaciousness here towards the end in case anything else is alive, having the context of the conversation we had.

Is there any other topic or thing that you think would be valuable for the listeners at this point? Yeah, I mean, I think of a lot of spiritual, followers, right? People who are on a spiritual path. Am I correct? The content's very spiritually grounded. And I think that one thing to notice for people, and this is only because I'm speaking for my part that I had for many years, was was the part that might spiritually bypass. For many years, I was, you know, training in Kundalini and like meditating for hours and channeling and all of that was extraordinary and it was better than using drugs. But it was also a protector part.

was trying to get above the suffering rather than relating to the suffering. And so spirituality is a through line within everything I touch. So everything I taught today is a spiritual practice and recognizing that sometimes that spiritual practice is in that inner inquiry and not so about getting above or beyond it. And so that's, I think, a nice place to leave that little acknowledgement that I've been a spiritual teacher for 19 years, and from half of that time, I was spiritually bypassing. And it wasn't meaning that my spiritual experiences

weren't absolutely true, magnificent, supportive, healing exactly where I could be in that moment. But it would have been cool to hear somebody be like, oh, you know, it doesn't have, you don't have to go above it. You can get into it. It's a really important reminder because it can be kind of insidious

and like masquerade itself and how like these parts are showing up because we might label a lot of those behaviors are like going to yoga and eating like whole foods and like things that are they're good to do right but the place it's coming from oftentimes can be especially in the health and wellness space and spiritual communities is actually not coming from a free energy it's not coming for the love of your body it's coming from you know can come from shame and and bypassing and control yeah yeah And it's like no matter how many things we get right, quote unquote, with our behavior, if it's coming from a psychologically limited place, right? There are subconscious patterns that are not free, then we're going to, again, I've seen

this so many times people can't resolve a health issue because they're not addressing the actual underlying thing, right? That's right. Yeah. I did all kinds of holistic healing remedies and practices and breathwork to heal my gut. and it was only until I healed my trauma that my gut could heal. What did you learn about moments where you're deep in depression, where you really can't see the surface of the air?

That's where prayer comes in. I've had many. One of the biggest ones was postpartum depression, which for me led to suicidal ideation. And I was trying to wellness bypass that condition. I spent four months trying to take the supplement, and do the acupuncture and the mediums and the yoga and wouldn't acknowledge that I was having a biochemical condition.

And what I needed was an antidepressant. And I did not need, no amount of aschwaganda was going to save me from that biochemical condition. And that was a big, big opportunity for me as a thought leader in the spiritual space to be able to speak very loud about the fact that we need medication at times, that we need support that may not look like the wellness path that we might think is the only way because that's fucking bullshit

and it will take your life. And sometimes you need hormones and sometimes you need medication or you need a surgery. And when we, and that recognizing God is in the medication, God is in the doctors. And it's when we bypass that

that we miss the healing opportunity. And depression, these tools don't work when you're having a biochemical condition. because when you're in a real depression, you don't actually have enough space between the stimulus and the response, right? And so the only thing I would offer there is a prayer and pray for help. Pray for help. And that's all I could do. And that prayer for help finally allowed me to hit my knees, finally allowed my therapist to intervene, finally allowed me to get to the right psychiatrist,

finally allowed me to get the right medication. And so, and to accept that God was in the medication. And so I really want to emphasize it if someone's struggling with with a chemical issue or a postpartum disorder or a hormonal, I'm in menopause now I'm 45 and I'm in menopause and I'm young, you know, in that state. And I'm now on hormones and I'm sexier than ever and I feel fucking awesome. And so not taking those hormones because I'm too like, you know, holistic would be, would have would destroy me. Yeah, I think you just requires such discernment and like there can be a lot of judgment towards Western medical system because of course there is a lot of not so great things that happen in the industry

in terms of relation for chronic illness, right, acute injury, Western pharmaceutical. Oh yeah. You know, it's, yes, they're just drug dealers. Yeah, totally. Yeah, and so I have even caught myself really like having a lot of resistance to the pharmaceutical industry because it's become such a massive business. How old are you? 27.

Wait till you turn 40, honey. You're going to be like, okay, well, what do I need now? We'll see. It's easy to not need any kind of pharmacology when you're just functioning at a high level. But keep going, sorry. Yeah. Well, where I was going with it is just, you know, there is, I think for certain people at certain points of their life, like it can't be an amazing tool. for example, antidepressants where somebody is so biochemically in a fog where they can't see straight.

Or a mother who's postpartum, period. I'm going to save lives saying that. Yeah. Because you have listeners that are very spiritual. They're on their wellness path and they might feel shame around taking an antidepressant when they're having postpartum depression. But you know what? It will kill you if you don't. I've also seen...

Not all people, but if you're in a suit, it's like you can take you to suicidal ideation. Yeah. I have had big debates about this with big leaders in this space. And I think it's very, very dangerous to shame or... in any way, shape, or form put down modern medicine because people need it. And, you know, particularly women, because our hormones, I need to be really on this platform speaking this, you will never know the suffering that a woman has to endure. And it's just by the nature of you being a man. And we have hormonal fluctuations all throughout our life. But starting in our mid-30s,

we go through and we start to go into perimenopause. And when those hormonal upheavals begin, We don't have, it's now in the zeitgeist, which is wonderful, but it hadn't been for so long. And so women would silently suffer, extreme mood swings, hot flashes, and not just the typical things like mood swings and hot flashes, but anything, like, you know, not sleeping, physical pain, frozen shoulder, just total brain fog, like literally cannot remember your best friend's name, extreme conditions. And you're just not able to function or thrive in the world. when women have gone unmedicated, they've lost their jobs, they've lost their marriages, they've, you know, their children will tell them, you know, mom, when you were, you know,

10 years ago, you were really difficult. You know, really? I was? Because they didn't have enough awareness around this. And so I'm going to speak for this, you know, that hormone replacement therapy is something that is being spoken about very proudly right now. And women that do lose their hormones, it starts to lead to many other physical conditions like cholesterol and diabetes and heart disease and dementia. And so I'm not pushing hormones. People have many different paths, but to just suggest people to be curious

and to be open because it's serious. Of course. Yeah, and again, just discerning and doing your own research above all else, right? Because there's so many misdiagnoses as well. I almost lost my mom because of one. And there's so many examples where it goes horribly, you know? Definitely.

But there are a lot of amazing stories examples as well too. So, you know, there's, in terms of human suffering, there's so many aspects in one which could look at something, right? From the mental to the physical, to the biochemical, to the spiritual, right? And I think it's important to give grace and space for people figuring it out. I think that you need to figure out what's right for you, but don't let shame take you away from the miracle. And I think that these things all do work together, right? So I may take estrogen, but I also will take aschaganda or I'll also take, you know, a androgen support supplement or whatever.

You know what I'm saying? So these things all can coexist together. And really, the biggest thing is to do the inner work. Because without that, you don't have enough inner awareness to even be able to discern what is right for you. Just to kind of wrap up on that, what have been your like mindfulness? practices. How has meditation played a role in your journey of all this? Because we spoke to you many times how the awareness and the making space for these parts of us and going on our own healing

journey, developing clarity of mind to be able to look at these things and discern is so important. And meditation is one of the biggest things that can help lessen the identification we have with our thoughts and emotions. It allows us to actually more effectively do parts work when we're not so tightly wound up and identified with them. And so I think we can get caught in the either or paradox of just extremes. Like it's either none of me and I'm going to bypass it, right, or like so identified in the personality, right? And utilizing both is really important.

So yeah, just curious as we're wrapping up here. I have had a daily meditation practice for 19 years. and it's also just part of my day. So even if I'm in the car for 10 minutes and I'm in an Uber and I've got five minutes in between, I'll go to my mantra or my breath. And I wouldn't be who I am. I wouldn't be sitting here. I wouldn't have had the expansiveness inside to do this kind of work if it weren't

for the steadiness that my meditation practice has provided me. And I also have access to that. that tuning in fast. I've got that access. And so it's, and the more have developed it. So it's joyful. It's just such a joyful experience to be able to just tune in and let this outer experience dissolve around me. Yeah. Any last words on the purpose, again, that these parts serve? I think it's a really important reminder to just hit one last time before we bounce out of this podcast. Yeah. Is examining the parts of what these things are solving. within us diffuse a lot of the shame that we have around them.

These parts of us are so extreme because they're just trying to protect us. They're working really, really, really hard to keep us feeling safe. And when we can see them through that lens, we can feel compassion for them. And to just open your heart to these extreme patterns and behaviors and see them as protection mechanisms that are just trying to keep you from really tough stuff that you don't want to have to face. Well said. Thank you so much for coming on today. Thank you. This is fun. Yeah. Yeah. It's special. Any anything you want to share with, we'll link everything down in the description where people can stay connected with your workbook, etc. Yeah. I mean, I just want people

to get their hands on this book and I think that it would be huge value for them. And there's also, you know, people really like this work and they want to go deeper with it. I have a, in my coaching membership app, I've got hundreds of meditations. and workshops and two-minute daily practices and 10-minute coaching practices and talks. But I also have these 11 self-help practices where I take the reader through the check-ins. So if you're like, I want to check in with my anxious part, but I don't know how to do it on my own yet, Gabby can do it with me. And so I can take them through this check-in process.

It's a really cool thing. Or I can do the body parts, like checking it with your body parts if you're having pain or any kind of emotional distress or something like that. So, yeah, that's just at my website, deargabby.com. Amazing. Yeah. Thank you. It's nice to meet you.

So nice to meet you. Yeah, got a new friend. Totally new friend. I also want to thank your perfectionist part because I think that your perfectionist part did a really nice job creating the space. Don't you think? Thanks. Yeah. It's perfect.

Yeah, it's interesting. You know, there are both those, I guess, parts of us that are maybe controlling your perfectionist and then the genuine loving impulse for beauty. and interior design and those things. Like, we all have the... My husband has a perfectionist part, and he's really good at interior design. And I think that that's a quality that a lot of decorators have.

Yeah. It's like, let's just say, and everything. Gratitude for that part as well. Yeah. And yeah, thank you so much. I really enjoyed this conversation. It was so fun.

It's so fun. It's so peacefully. And big love to you and the work that you're sharing. Yeah. Thank you, again, everybody, to those of you that have been tuning into this episode of the Know They Self Podcast, and you made it all the way to this part.

Thank you. of your parts for making it this far and it's just so amazing to build a community where this level of self-inquiry is present. I think it's just an amazing atmosphere to be a part of. And as always, please let us know where you're at along your own journey in this process. Always love reading. And until next time, be well.