Know Thyself - E130 - Gregg Braden: Artificial vs Ancient Intelligence: The Rise of Tech Without Losing Our Power

Episode Date: January 7, 2025

Scientist Gregg Braden is back on Know Thyself today for a deeper dive into the inherent beauty of humanity and the technology that threatens it. Pulling on the threads of our last conversations, Gregg opens up about the current state of the world: from transhumanism to artificial intelligence, giving a warning message about these innovations. He provides a reframe on what we’ve been told about human potential: revealing that we are far greater than we know and these technologies threaten that very greatness.  Our discussion encompasses a range of critical topics, including the ongoing struggle between good and evil on Earth, the pivotal Year 2030, and the Future of Humanity. Furthermore, Gregg draws intriguing parallels to popular culture, exploring how films like "The Matrix" serve as allegories for deeper truths about our reality, prompting us to question the nature of existence itself. Sleep Better with the Birch Mattress - Save 25% Off Sitewide + 2 Free Eco-Rest Pillows with Mattress Purchase:http://birchliving.com/knowthyselfAndré's Book Recommendations: https://www.knowthyself.one/books___________0:00 Intro 1:59 Technology is Evolving Faster than Our Morality11:41 Is Transhumanism an Inevitable Phase of Evolution?19:30 Who’s Really Controlling the Show?26:13 Why We Can’t Manufacture Consciousness31:00 The Neuroscience of Our Divinity 36:50 How Our Neurons Atrophy from Technology 44:13 Science's Attempt at Cloning (and why it won’t work)50:25 Ad: Sleep Better with the Birch Mattress & Save 25%53:32 Earth’s Battle Between Good & Evil1:09:24 How Love vs Fear Creates our Reality 1:13:11 Year 2030 & The Future of Humanity 1:26:04 Why We’re Drawn to Wholeness 1:33:44 Embracing the Truth of Who You Are1:40:55 Conclusion ___________New York Times best-selling author and scientist Gregg Braden is internationally renowned as a pioneer in bridging science, spirituality and the real world. Following a successful career as a Computer Geologist during the 1970s energy crisis, he worked in the 1980s as a Senior Liaison with the U.S. Air Force Space Command. In 1991 he became the First Technical Operations Manager for Cisco Systems. Since 1986 Gregg has explored high mountain villages, remote monasteries, and forgotten texts to merge their timeless secrets with the best science of today. The author of 11 award-winning books published in 38 languages, Gregg has received numerous honours, including a 2016 nomination for the prestigious Templeton Award. He has shared his presentations with The United Nations, Fortune 500 companies, and the U.S. military, as well as in media specials aired throughout the world. Pre-order NEW Book “Pure Human”: https://a.co/d/i9LDO4mWebsite: https://greggbraden.comInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/gregg.braden/___________Know ThyselfInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/knowthyself/Website: https://www.knowthyself.oneClips Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJ4wglCWTJeWQC0exBalgKgListen to all episodes on Audio: Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4FSiemtvZrWesGtO2MqTZ4?si=d389c8dee8fa4026Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/know-thyself/id1633725927André DuqumInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/andreduqum/

In many respects, technology is advancing faster than our morality. The first time in the 200,000 years of our existence, we have the ability not only to change the world around us, but to forever change the world within us. When we make those changes in our biology, we can't go back. So here we are at the precipice of giving our humanness away to technology within a context of a belief system that says we're flawed to begin with, and there's no reason not to do this,

where the best science of the modern world is telling us just the opposite. And that context, I think, changes everything. Here's what it does. We're going to get through it. The question is, what do we become? Do we allow the events unfolding in the world to drive us to hate? Or do those events awaken within us the deep truth of our love, our compassion, our forgiveness? It all comes down to love.

Do we love ourselves enough? Greg, welcome back. Andre, it is so good to be back in the Know Thyself, new and improved studio, that new mics. And I'm appreciating being in exactly the place where so many of my brothers and sisters, colleagues and people I've never met, but I admire tremendously, have been. It's an honor to be here with you. It's been a few months, and we're in a very different world now. And this is unscripted.

I'm excited to see where this conversation goes. I was filled with joy to see that this week. You were on the schedule to come in studio and just to see you. And man, I love the continued brotherhood friendship and service that we share together. And I'm hoping, you know, this conversation can pull along similar threads to our last conversation, diving deeper into some nuance. You have a new book called Pure Human as well, which follows along alongside a lot of these themes. We're going to pick apart today. In 1945, human knowledge was double.

doubling every 25 years on average. Now it's doubling every 12 hours. And we see this exponential rise of technology and human knowledge. And yet, unless coupled with the wisdom to wield those tools, they could contribute to our demise. And so in many ways, if we don't acknowledge the power within our humanness and slow down to the same capacity we're speeding up, there's going to be a lot of things that we're just not tapping into

that we're missing. And so what is that sacredness? What is that power within humanness that we need to recognize? Wow, that's a big question to begin with. You know, in many respects, the technology is advancing faster than our morality and our wisdom in terms of what the values are that we claim that we share as a human family. A perfect example of this. I think people sometimes learn better through example. I read an interview with Ray Kurzweil recently. Ray Kurzweil, I think many people know as a futurist. He's an author, an adventure, and he is high in management at Google, developing the artificial intelligence. He recently released a book entitled Singularity, where he says that we are rapidly, unless something changes, we are rapidly

moving toward a convergence of human biology and digital technology. and when he was asked in the interview what that means to us, you know, of course, we're developing this technology at a lightning speed. It's like the floodgates have been opened, and there's no stopping where that technology is going. And when he and others have been asked a question, what does that mean to us? What does it mean for humans to merge our humanness into the Internet of all things

with artificial intelligence? the answer, I think, is telling because he essentially says, don't ask me, I'm an engineer. My job is to push the technology as far and as fast as I can. He said, that's somebody else's bailiwick to determine what it means to us socially. And I think it's this disconnect, and I think it is a disconnect, that we are empowering the technology within the context of a world we've been taught that we are powerless, victims of our world, that we are.

are a flawed species to begin with, that carbon-based life in general and humans specifically are a flawed species. And through multiple generations, we have been led to believe, indoctrinated to believe that this is the case, that we need something outside of ourselves to be healthy in our bodies and to be successful in business and successful in life. So with that mindset, the development of the technology opens the door to us giving our power away from our biology and from the potential of our humanness, relinquishing that power into the technology, computer chips in the brain, chemicals in the blood, RFID chips under the skin, nanobots moving through the circulatory system, artificial intelligence, and so much more.

And we're seeing that movement now. One of the things I think that sets today apart from any other time in the past, and you mentioned the new book, I opened the new book by speaking about this, is that as humans, we've always had the ability to change the world around us. You know, we sometimes not such good ways. We've clear-cut forests. We've hunted species to the point of extinction. Sometimes we can do some good things in terms of ecology and engineering. But the point is we've always been able to look and say, if we don't like what we did, we can change that.

maybe go back to what we had before. What sets today apart, Andre, from any other time in our history, is that for the first time in the 200,000 years of our existence, 10,000 generations ago is when we emerged on this planet. It's really not that long ago. For the first time, we have the ability not only to change the world around us, but to forever change the world within us, to change our very biology.

And when we make those changes in our biology, unlike the external world, we can't go back. Once we make the shift in engineering our immune system, for example, and replacing our own immune system with technology that creates the limited immunity for us, or very specified kinds of immunity, the body begins to say, well, maybe you don't need me to do what I did in the past. And so one generation, that becomes the way things are done, the next generation through what we call epigenetics. Next generation, children are born and the body says, oh, you know, we don't do it that way anymore. That's a vestige of our past because now we have a new way, a chemical base to develop our immune system. And that's just one example. So here we are at the precipice of giving our humanness away to technology, replacing our bodies with synthetion. and replacing our biology with synthetics within a context of a belief system that says we're flawed to begin with.

And there's no reason not to do this where the best science of the modern world is telling us just the opposite. The real science, not the pop science, you know, that you see in the magazine covers and the airports and cable news network, things like that. But the real science behind the scenes, Andre, the new discoveries are showing us nothing short. of the immensely extraordinary beings that we are, that we are literally a highly advanced, technologically, sophisticated, soft technology. Hard technology is computer chips, as we said, and chemicals and sensors under the skin.

But we're more than that as human. We're neurons and cell membranes and DNA, with the ability to morph and adapt to our environment as that environment changes. And in many cases, we not only meet, but we exceed the capacity of the computer chips and the artificial intelligence. And there are studies have been done recently, the Salk Institute here in California, for example, compared a human brain to a microprocessor. And the way they did that, it's really interesting.

they equated the synapses in the brain with the transistors on the computer chip. And interestingly, the numbers for both are very, very close. And they made the calculations. And with the bottom line, what they found was that the human brain is 100-fold faster and more adaptable to the kinds of information that's coming in than the computer ship can be. And let me just round that out by explaining why, because this is one of the things that sets us apart. any technology is going to be limited by the physics of the stuff it's made of. Right now, computer chips typically are silicon.

If you go to the periodic table and you look a little map of a silicon atom, what makes that silicon is never going to change. And the distance between those atoms and the geometric arrangement of the atoms to make the silicon isn't going to change. and information can only flow so fast between those. It's limited by the physics that makes the silicon silicon. So you say, what is the scalability of a computer chip? And what we have to say is that the scalability is finite. And you mentioned this.

Moore's Law was a law referencing the doubling not only of information, but the doubling of computer speeds and chips as well. Every 18 to 24 months. 18 to 24 months, we now are at, almost the quantum level where it has happened so fast that we are up against the limits on a quantum level. And then you ask the question, what about a human neuron? What about our limits? And this is, it's so beautiful because every time the scientists and the medical teams, they push a human neuron up against what has been perceived to be a limit in the past,

we do what humans do. We morph and we adapt to that limit, opening a new vista, an entire new vista of potential that was unknown previously. So that when we say what is our scalability, what we have to say, honestly, right now is we don't know. Right now it appears the scalability of a human neuron is infinite. And that's only one example of where we're being conditioned. to believe that the technology is our savior, that the AI and the computer chips are the savior at the cost, the very high price of relinquishing our humanness, and we begin replacing

our biology with that technology. That's how you lose a species. That's exactly how you lose a species. So I want to hold and put the evolutionary heritage of our untapped human potential. I want to dive into that in a moment. it seems as though I mean humanity is baby steps away from super intelligent AGI

technology at a scale we had not previously dreamed of and it's happening much faster than we can conceive of and in a way in a sense it's an inevitability like it's happening the genie is kind of out of the bottle

in many ways what do you think about the perspective that humanity may very well serve the purpose of the transition between carbon-based to silicon-based life. Like, taking out our own, I guess, egocentric human desire to live forever,

what do you think about that transition and the perspective? Sure, when I released the early copies of the book Pure Human for review, I had feedback from some scientists and technologists about this very topic. For our viewers, at this time, as we're having this conversation,

the book is not available commercially right now. So these are review copies. The book is a celebration of our humanness and hopefully the invitation to develop a deeper appreciation for just what it means to be human so that maybe we're not so fast to relinquish our humanists, at least not before we know what it is that we're giving away. When I got those reviews from some of the technologists,

what they believe is that this is, is the next step in human evolution. I disagree with that because this is an artificial evolution. It's a forced evolution and it is at the expense of relinquishing the extraordinary biology that allows us to be who we are in place of the technology. In other words, replacing us with the technology rather than taking that biology and developing it to another level. So it is a form of evolution. It's not a natural evolution. It's an artificial evolution. And I talk about this in the book a little bit. I'm going to say this right now. It's not good for us. When you look at where the technological revolution that we're seeing right now, where it's leading, and what the logical outcome is within the context of all the other things that are happening in the world, we are geoengineering this planet in a way that is. not good for us. Pushing the carbon dioxide levels down to dangerous, dangerous levels that are near extinction levels in the geologic pass. That's not good for us. Pushing the temperatures down,

an average of 10 degrees Fahrenheit from 59 to, actually, more than that, about 46 degrees Fahrenheit. That's not good for us. We are creating wars between the superpowers, expending weapons and manpower, depleting our abilities as a planet to defend ourselves, that's not good for us. Now we are in the process of being indoctrinated to accept technology into our bodies, relinquishing our biology and our divinity, our divine qualities of empathy, sympathy, emotion, compassion, forgiveness, creativity, innovation, imagination. Those are all facets of human divinity that are lost when we replace our biology with technology, that's not good for us. So is it the form of evolution?

It's an artificial or a forced evolution. It's not a natural evolution. And in my opinion, and in defense of our humanness, this is why I wrote the book, at least to bring an awareness to what it is that we're about to give away before we give it away, because once again, once we do, we cannot go back. You know, one of the beautiful things, I worked in the high-tech industry from 1979 to mid-90s,

and I saw amazing technology. Someone was here in California during the Cold War years. I worked on Norton Air Force Base, Banderberg Air Force Base, not far from here. Amazing technology. I mean, laser technology and communications and radar. And as sophisticated as they all were, Andre, I never, to this day, I've never seen any technology built in the world around us that doesn't mimic what we already do in ourselves, except we do it better. And the beauty of this inner technology, one of the things I learned

when I was in the industry is that the more complex, the more sophisticated the system is behind the scenes, the simpler the user interface. We are so complex. We are such an advanced form of soft technology that the user interface is deceptively simple. thought, feeling, emotion, breath, focus, movement, nutrition, the core of our most ancient and cherished spiritual traditions. They didn't know the science, but they were helping us to make the best of our humanness and to develop it in extraordinary ways. Now the science has forgotten that.

So I'm just going to say this is a very different way of thinking of the human body because we're conditioned. I went to school in 1950s, 60s, early 1970s. And I was conditioned to think of the human body as a frail, vulnerable, biological system, sticky, wet, gooey stuff inside the cells. And here's the revolution. Now, scientists all over the world are beginning to think of the human body from the perspective of IT, information technology.

And so people say, why don't we know about these new discoveries? is the answer is because the discoveries are published in engineering journals. They're not published in biological textbooks, like IEEE, for example, and the Journal of Advanced Computing Systems, things like that. And they're looking at the human body from an information technology perspective, and they're blown away by what they're seeing. We talked about this in a previous interview. The circuits, every one of the 50 trillion cells in our body is an electrical circuit.

transistors, resistors, those equivalents are in the body. The DNA are literally, and this is directly from an engineering journal, the DNA is being called a resonant fractal antenna. What that means is that we are picking up information across a broad spectrum of information sources, rather than you think of an antenna zeroing in on one station somewhere. We're picking it up from everywhere simultaneously, and we're processing it from the DNA into the nervous system, through the body, into the brain. And when they begin looking at us from an IT perspective, I mean, engineers are clamoring to recreate in a laboratory what we do in our bodies, and they cannot do it. And the reason they cannot do that is because of our humanness and our

divinity that allows us as resonant antenna to tune to information that's not in our physical bodies, but it permeates the world that we live in. There's a big conversation there. So, yeah, as a natural form of evolution, we would lose access to all of that if we replace the membranes of our cells, the neurons in our brain, and the DNA in our bodies with synthetics and artificial components, we lose that. So I guess maybe the question, Andre, is what kind of evolution do we want? Would you not say it's a small sect of these transhumanists who are really pushing for the complete either or of, you know, like on 2045,

which is Rick Rose Wilde's Singularity kind of website, says by 2030 to 2035, an avatar with an artificial brain in which a human personality is transferred at the end of one's life by 2045, a hologram like avatar. And so there are these, in the sect of kind of materialist Silicon Valley juggernauts, you know, there are some people that are pioneering this. But there's also many other people that are not as hastily excited to embrace, like, swap human life. Here's the, I agree with you. And here's the problem. Not all the changes are by choice. There is a relatively small number of people that view themselves as, technological elite that know better than everyone else, what is good for us, what's good for our

world, what's good for our human species. And it's always been that way, even before we had the technology we have today, and I've never had any problem with any of that. Where this gets concerning is those thinkers, for example, the World Economic Forum, WEF, developed 1971, they get together every year. Davos, Switzerland, we all hear about it. We see it on the news, you know, the private jets going in and the mysterious meetings and all of that. And they have every right to get together and think about the world that they want. These are elite business leaders, CEOs of major corporations, major financial institutions, government leaders, things like that. What changed is in 2019, they formalized an agreement with the United Nations through what is.

now called the UN SDG 2030, United Nations Sustainable Development Goals for 2030, 17 goals that are intended to be implemented within five years now, because we're now almost 2025. That's not very long. The goals are beautiful goals when you look at them by title. Things like food security and child health, planetary global child health. I mean, who doesn't want that? We all want that. Now, you look at the fine print and you say, how are they going to achieve those goals in such a brief period of time? And the level of social engineering that has to happen if they are going to achieve those goals is staggering. It is nothing short of a social revolution. I personally don't want to live in the world that they're proposing, a world where everything is digitized,

everything is controlled. Everything is run by AI. AI is making decisions for our health. AI is making decisions for all these things. So, yes, a relatively small number of people have these visions. Most people in life, if I go to my, I live in a rural area in northern New Mexico, beautiful part of the world. And when I'm home, I go to my local food co-op. That's where I get to connect with my neighbors. Really good people, Andre, you know, most of them are so, their lives are so full with raising their children, working two or three jobs, trying to put food on the table, keeping things together. They don't have time to think about this stuff. So they don't know the specifics of what you and I are talking about. What they do know is that the world is changing

and it's happening too fast. And I had a woman actually say this to me. She said, it's not, it's, the changes are not chosen by us. They're happening to us. And so their answer is to pull back. They're saying, we need to slow down. They're pulling their kids out of public schools to teach them the values that they cherish in their family. They're growing their own food, less engaged in the banking system, less engaged in traditional forms of finance, retirement, jobs and careers, all of that. That's their answer, is by going back to the basics. So, yes, it is a relatively small number. However, they now have the ability. The policies are being written, as you and I are having this conversation. The policy,

are already in place. And some of those policies now are being made into law. And that law, just the way we have lobbyists for oil and gas industry and pharmaceutical industry, there are now lobbyists lobbying for these sustainable development goals in the U.S. Congress and in the European Union. That's what changes everything. These are unelected officials. We didn't ask them to represent us, and we didn't ask them to what their ideas are for a better world. They have assumed this position through the use of their own or misuse of their own power. And now these policies are being imposed upon us. And the insidious thing is it is done so slick.

The marketing is so slick and sexy. I know what's happening and I'm still in awe when I see the YouTube commercials making this stuff look so sexy. For example, they target young people. You can put a computer chip in your brain, and with no wires, you can communicate with your keyboard and play all your video games. And a young person is going to say, sweet, you know, let me see if I've got this straight. I can play my video games and never touch the keyboard, and they say, yeah, yeah, you can do that. And they say, well, who doesn't want that? because they've never been taught what the price is they're paying.

Because we also don't know fully what the price would be to do. Well, we know from the laboratory experiments, the horrible things that happened to the primates that were used to develop the technology that Neurolink, for example, has been reluctant. They did come forward. They're reluctant because it's not what they want to emphasize. But the horrible things that happened to those primates

to get to that, point where it is now, FDA has just licensed these computer chips for use in the human brain. Now, there's a flip side to all this, and there always is. I love technology outside my body, and I respect technology, and I respect AI. And I think if we harness the technology can lead us to amazing places without giving our power and our biology and our lives away to this. Just like any technology, any tool. Let me give the example. I mean, this is a beautiful thing.

A neuralink chip for a man or woman who have given their lives in service to the battlefield of Afghanistan or Iraq and been blown to pieces that are still alive to do that. And if they come home with only one arm or one leg or no legs, what a beautiful thing to take a robotic technology and hook that to a robotic technology and hook that to a time. chip in the brain that allows them to have arms and legs again to hold their babies and to love their children and feed themselves and wash and comb their own hair. I mean, what a beautiful thing. This is good, good technology. So it's, it's not the tech. It's the thinking underlying the tech, the thinking that we are indoctrinated to accept. And the hastily, reckless embracing of it without fully knowing what the potential consequences are. This is it. We are led to believe that we are a flawed

species. And they keep saying, and ultimately, the ultimate goal for much of this, you mentioned without saying the word, is immortality. They're afraid of dying. And they believe that if we can develop the technology to download consciousness onto a chip, which I believe is, I know how deep you want getting in this, I believe it's not possible. Yeah, we also had Federico Fagin on a podcast who created one of the world's first microprocessor, and he tried actually for many, many years to create consciousness in that way and could not, and that's what led to money. You can't, and the reason is because we are more than ones and zeros, and the scientific community is reluctant to accept that. So they are searching. I remember I was a kid in northern

Missouri when Einstein left this world, and they took his brain and gave it to University of Kansas right across the state line. And they dried it and thin-slice it. So they could look into his brain and say, what makes Einstein so different from everyone else? They didn't find anything, with the exception of one small feature, his brain had way more folds than most brains did. Well, what that means is when you take that fold and you stretch it out, it means he's got more surface area, which means he's got more neurons. They were looking for the information in his brain. The neurons are the antenna that tune us to the place in the field where our memories live. Studies are very clear on this.

Where our divinity lives, where our imagination, our creativity, our ability to love, all of those things are, part of our divinity, and the neurons are the antenna that tune us to our localized places in the field, which is why it makes perfect sense. If you give away your humanness to synthetics, to silicon organs, or the equivalent to, you know, silicon brains, you're not going to be able to tune to that. You can still be alive, but what kind of a human are you if you've lost for empathy, sympathy, compassion, love, forgiveness, and those kinds of things. So this is the whole point of where the technology is leading. We cannot capture consciousness on the computer chip because consciousness, this was,

Brian Green did an amazing interview with Joe Rogan, and they talked about this. and ultimately what he said he believes and he thinks it's going to take another hundred years is what Brian Green said he said he thinks that we will discover that the stuff we're made of the quarks and the you know the quantum particles leptons and the quarks when they behave a certain way that's what we call consciousness and I like Brian Green a lot in my opinion that he's missing the point because it's not in the stuff they're looking at in the stuff for consciousness. And because of that, they think the electrical synapses in the brain,

if you can capture that, put it on a chip, you've captured consciousness. And what we now know is that those electrical synapses are the antenna attuning to the place in the field. Can I just share an experiment that really helps to illustrate this? And you and I talked about this offline a little bit. I do this in live audiences. And first you can hear the audience gasp. when they hear this, and then the room is quiet. And you can hear literally a pin drop with a couple thousand people in the room.

So this experiment's been done a couple of times. One of the first was at the Salk Institute here in California. They took neurons and placed them into a petri dish that was connected to a specialized chip. And for our techies out there, I mean, literally the little dendrites, there were ports. on the chip that could accommodate those dendrites. So now you've got a neuron computer chip interface. So they did that successfully. And then they took that chip and they hooked it to a computer that was loaded with an old game.

Some of our viewers may remember, it was first launched in 1972. It's called Pong. And I was working in the industry when Pong came out. And it's so primitive today. It's like, it's ping pong on a very first. flat two-dimensional screen. I would come back from lunch when we were working in the high-tech industry during the Cold War. And engineers working on nuclear triggers for our weapon systems were glued to their screens playing this game of Pong because nothing had ever been seen

like that before. I mean, you know, it's hard to think with the advanced gaming world we live in now is so simple. But here's the point. They took that computer chip with a near They hooked it to a computer that was loaded with this game Pong. The neurons started playing the game. And the longer they played, the better they got. They were learning from playing this game. So the question becomes, how does a neuron not hooked to a person in a petri dish

know how to play Pong? Where are the instructions for the Pong? The answer is the instructions are not in the neuron. The neuron is the resonant antenna. that tunes to the place in the field that scientists now have acknowledged July 4th, 2012, the CERN's superconducting supercollider

announced the existence of the field underlying all existence. So this is not a metaphor, not new thought, new age, make-believe. So the neurons are tuning to the place in the field where Pong lives. There's a place in the field.

This is also, like would you refer to Rupert Sheldricks' morphic resonance? Yeah, his morphic resonance, morphogenic field. But we all know this in everyday life because when we choose to learn something new, Andre, and you and I are both guitarists. If you're learning another language, you know, a foreign language, the first time you try to learn something guitar feels awkward or you're speaking phonetically

in a foreign language and it sounds weird, all of a sudden you wake up one morning and you're playing like Steve Vai, hopefully. Or, you know, you're speaking French or you're speaking English and you say, well, God, you know, what happened? That was hard a couple of days ago. Well, here's the answer to that. The time-lapse photography shows it takes about 72 hours for neurons to find one another. They're very social cells. They want to hook up. So these neurons, they want to hook up. Polyamorous neurons. Absolutely. We all have them. So it takes about three days, about 72 hours. And you can see under a microscope. Here's where we come in. It is the act.

the act of a human choosing to be more in the moment in front of them than they were in the moment behind them, the act of choosing to learn something new and different or to accomplish or to master something, that choice is the biological trigger. It's the impetus for the cells, including the neurons, to do what they need to do to support that choice. That's how powerful we are. Yeah, and if we, again, widely kind of accept and embrace AI kind of chips, for example, into human biology, if we don't use it, we'll lose it. And there can be definitely widespread atrophy if we're not using the faculties that are biologically evolved to. Well, this is another place where the new studies, well, let me follow with the pong. So now scientists are stuck. And this is the way science learns. If science is honest, science can only serve us. if we keep science honest.

If science is honest, they will have to acknowledge that there's something happening, number one, that they don't understand. And that's hard for some scientists to do. It's a mystery. Number two, they'll have to acknowledge the information can't be in the neuron. So where is it?

And that will lead to the new story that it tells, rather than taking those neurons and trying to force the phenomenon upon to fit into an old story that no longer serves us. And this is the challenge for science. in general is always, are we willing to follow the evidence to the new stories that the evidence

tells? Or are we going to take the new discoveries, force those discoveries into pre-existing models, like a square peg and a round hole? You can do that. A square peg will fit into a round hole, but then it's not a good fit. There's a little spaces around it, and that's exactly, theory of evolution, theory of the origin of the universe, I mean, all of this. That's exactly where this is happening. So this is why I encourage our viewers. If you're going to learn something new, or you have children or grandchildren that are frustrated, if it doesn't come to them just like that, give it three days. And you'll be amazed because it takes about the 72 hours for those neurons to come together to support the choice that we've made. So now you just asked, what was the question

that you had just asked because I wanted to address that as well. The atrophy, if you don't use it, The new discoveries are showing when I was a kid, again, school 50s, 60s, and 70s, we were taught, and I think they may still be teaching this in some schools, that we were born with a finite number of brain cells, finite number of neurons. And the joke at that time, this was the leverage for every college student, every beer you drink in college, you're going to lose brain cells. And you've only got so many to start with, you know, so don't drink all those beers. Well, now what they know is that the hippocampus is constantly producing new neurons until the last breath we take on this planet. You can be 104 years old, 120 years old, and you're still producing new brain cells. Here's the catch.

If those brain cells are not engaged in a meaningful way within about seven days, they will atrophy and die. Because, once again, our body functions on demand. is looking for a reason to give us the features that we have. So if those brain cells are engaged, they're not engaged, then the body says, I guess we don't need these. And they begin to atrophy and die. So now here's what the psychology is showing. Artificial intelligence and virtual reality have been around long enough now that they can do studies. Psychologists are doing studies, young people. what they found is that young children who have, so you're three years old, you wake up in the morning, eat a bowl of a bowl of Captain Crunch, I guess, cereal, and then the parents sit them on the living room floor and put a virtual reality visor on to be entertained for the morning and the parents go off and do their things. Very dystopic view.

But that's happening. That's happening. So the kids are sitting there for hours. Here's the catch. They're seeing things in that virtual reality that they would never see in real life in their backyard with their friends. They're seeing scenarios that would never, you know, they're not going to see dinosaurs walking through the backyard, probably. They're seeing colors, intense colors, hearing the sounds. But the key is it's all being done for them, Andre.

They are simply observers watching this happen rather than we were kids. we used our imagination. You would create a fort in the backyard or a fort in your living room by putting a blanket across the couch and the love seat. And to you or to me, man, that was a very real fort. Parents might not have thought so. But we were engaging our imagination. So now the studies, the psychological studies are showing children in that environment, they are stunted in their physical growth. They're stunted in the muscle growth. They're stunted in their cognitive abilities. And their brain size is smaller. But they're very very much. visual cortex is larger, which makes perfect sense because they're engaging the part of the brain

that is involved in the vision, but not in the creation, and the creativity. So they're showing us now, sadly, these young, and that can be reversed because we are epigenetic beings. They can begin restructure their lives and be taught how to be imaginative and creative, and they can reverse it's not for life unless they choose to have those limitations for life. But they're showing us what you're saying, and this is a perfect example. When we see that happening in the brain, that illustrates what happens in the entire body. It happens with sexual reproduction. When we stop, we begin to use technology.

Now, there are artificial wounds where women don't have to go through the pain. of carrying a baby. There are artificial wounds. The FDA will approve them within five years. Right now they're using them with lambs successfully. And they use lambs because the blood and the brain structure of a lamb are so similar to humans. So they can grow an entire lamb in an artificial wound, fur grows and everything. I don't even think you can call it being born because you don't come through a birth canal.

I'm not sure what you would call it. But and then part of the transhuman conversation is that human conception is so imprecise. You never know what you're going to get. But we can fix that. That's what they say. Because we've got gene editing. We can gene edit fast twitch muscles for athletes or more IQ, greater intelligence, more IQ or eye color or eye color. Now you get into the conversation whose idea of perfection.

do we really want to make making those choices? And when we do, it's happening right now, as we do this outside of the body, the human body believes that it doesn't need to support conception any longer. And that's happening at a dangerous time in our lives because global fertility has fallen off a cliff. A lot of people don't know this. A lot of people believe I've had older biologists in their 80s who remember a book that was written in 1972 called the population bomb, that there are too many people on the planet, none of resources, and they're stuck in that mindset. That's not true at all.

First of all, we have all the resources we need to feed every mouth of every man, woman, and child. No one should be going hungry or without. We have that. Right now, the replacement rate for human population is two. Each woman who has reached puberty needs to produce 2.1 children to just maintain, and we have fallen below that. We are below that

2.1. So we will top out. If nothing changes, we're going to top out right around 2050, which isn't that far away. And after 2050, that's not good for us. And there are a number of factors. There are hormonal disruptors in the environment that have been introduced to us in our water, in our food. Those are toxins. There are energetic factors that are happening, and it's both for men and women. The sperm is weak, and the eggs are not always viable. And even now, many women, I'm sure women listening to this, realize that for a successful

conception, sometimes it takes two or three miscarriages to get to that successful conception, and we're seeing more of that. So all of this is saying to us that we have these systems that are built to be used. There's an axiom in biology is user or lose it. And we hear people joke about that as you get older with things like sex and things, you know, about your muscles and things like that. But it applies to everything in the body. Use it or lose it.

If we allow technology to replace these natural biological functions, and many of them we take for granted. What happens is in one generation, we begin to decline. Epigenetics passes that to the next generation, and we lose that part of our humanness, and that's already happening. Yeah, and so in the advent of so much of the kind of exponential technology and transhumanist development from gene editing with CRISPR to cloning, we're just starting to get a glimpse at what is lost

and the excitement of embracing something. Dahlia's sheep is an example where things went wrong in the attempt to clone a sheep, which they successfully did, but then it died half of its lifespan, right? Well, they're still doing this. With cloning, a lot of people think we've got this down to a science. There is a science. I'm going to share why the cloning is broken,

but I want to preface this. This is the way science learns. And this, once again, we've asked science to tell us who we are, and we've asked science to serve us. Science can only do that if we keep science honest. And if we follow the information and the discoveries to the place that they lead. So here's what's happening with cloning. Yes, Dolly the sheep was the first, was not the first clone, but was the first that was very publicly acknowledged. And Dolly at first, when she was cloned, she looked like any other sheep.

She acted like a sheep. She lived like a sheep. She conceived, I believe she had three or four offspring, so she was able to conceive. And then something mysterious began to happen that happens typically to cloned animals. Now, to the best of my knowledge, publicly, officially, legally, we're not doing this with humans. Behind the scenes, I think there's a really good chance, and there's a whole conversation we could have about that. But what began to happen with Dolly is her body began to break down

at about 50% of the age for her species of where a body should break down. And the first thing, the first thing that I'm doing is from memory. The first thing that happened with her was she developed really severe arthritis. It just made it so painful for her to even move. and they tried to manage that with steroids and painkillers. And then she developed respiratory issues. Eventually, she was euthanized as a compassionate way of relieving her pain. She's not the only one.

Now they've tried to do this with cows, bovine cloning. It's exactly the same thing. Scientists are mystified, and here's the reason, because they say, what in the world is going on? We've got exactly the DNA. We've got the eggs. we know how to do this, what is it that that's missing? And now the scientific journals are saying there's something missing that we have not recognized. And in the book, I share my perspective of what that is. When you do the cloning, what you're doing is you're taking the DNA from another organism

and putting it into the egg of the original organism that has been enucleated, is the term. So they Take an egg, take the DNA out of the original. Take that DNA out. Now they take the DNA from another sheep, for example, and put it into that egg, and then they electrically stimulate it, and it begins to grow. Here's what they've missed. The DNA does not only exist in the nucleus of the cell. There is DNA there, and we all know that.

And the nucleus, there's also DNA outside of the nucleus, and what's called the cell. cytoplasm. This is where the information technology is now blurring the lines with biology. Because IT, information technology, says the DNA is a resonant fractal antenna. All right? So in the original egg, the DNA inside the nucleus is in communication with the DNA outside the nucleus. They're having a conversation so they can support one another. You pull that original DNA out, you put another DNA in, it's tuned to a different station. It can no longer communicate with the DNA outside of the nucleus. That is where the breakdown happens. That is why the functions begin to fail at about 50% of the lifespan. And I think the only way they'll have that

successful long-term cloning is they will have to acknowledge that and allow those two pieces of DNA to communicate. And there are a number, I hesitate, I don't know how deep want to get into that, there are a number of ways to go about doing that. But the key is, they've got to acknowledge that there is information being shared between nuclear and cytoplasmic DNA and to the best by knowledge you haven't done that yet. Isn't that interesting? Yeah, it's very fast.

Yeah. And so they want to apply this to humans, ultimately, they want to apply it to organs. They want to clone organs. so that we don't have to have someone die before we get an organ, you know, from someone else. They've got, right now, we can 3D print key organs. You can 3D print a kidney. You can 3D print a heart. You can 3D print ears, nose, and skin, which is awesome, you know, for burn victims and things like that.

So you don't have to take your own skin grass. How successful will those organs be in the body? And these are all considerations that, you know, know, that we have to think about, all under the umbrella of this transhumanistic movement, we're trying, this is a generation, we're trying to replace our natural biology with synthetics. Yeah, it seems like with the advent of any new innovation, there's both the light and the dark side of it, right? The immense possibility for supporting handicapped folks and, like, so many amazing applications

from the innovation of the technology and also the aspects that were integrating without the awareness of what it can do to us. A quick share. The world is moving faster and faster, it seems, and hopefully all of this talk of AI and tech advancement is not stressing you out too much. I am a personal fan of, one, awareness of what's happening,

and then two, becoming an agent for the change you wish to see in the world. And for me, the foundation of that empowerment, is our health. And a good night's sleep is absolutely foundational to health. Not just how much we sleep, but how deeply. And one huge factor of that is what we're sleeping on. Many mattresses unfortunately are made with harsh synthetic materials that release harmful off-gassing, which is not great for our health, especially since we spent so much time breathing it in. And that's why I am thrilled to share about a healthier alternative birch living. I've been sleeping on a birch mattress for a while now, and I've absolutely loved it. It's just the best mattress in my opinion.

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conversation when you referenced the untapped potential in our humanness and the exciting new science that's emerging of really how powerful our biop. biology is, but then also in the ancient wisdom traditions that have talked about cities and talked about the S-I-D-D-H-I-S, not cities like the place you live, that refer to an immense capacity that we're just only beginning to understand that's only physical within the carbon-based biological system. And so when you refer to that untapped potential, what are you specifically referring to? Divinity.

Can you refine that more? So let's, in our previous conversation, when do we do that conversation? Like seven months ago. Okay. So about over six months ago, we had this conversation. And I don't want to be redundant, but I know not everyone sees every moment of every episode, although they should, of the amazing interviews that you do. You are so really, and I just want to just take a moment and thank you and acknowledge what a beautiful community you've created around. know thyself. And I attribute a lot of that to your skill as an interviewer and as a listener.

And I appreciate that. Thank you so much. I really appreciate that. I feel like a lucky, lucky man getting to do this. So yeah, well, you do a beautiful job. So I think I'm going to go back because it's, it's with me right now. Yes, there is always a dark side to any technology, as well as all the good things, it's the thinking underlying it. The movement to replace our biology with technology effectively shields from us

our divinity. All right, so... Yeah, and we don't have to look any further than the technology that isn't replacing our biology but is enhancing it currently, like with our phones and everything. We can see how it's an immense tool, and yet it thwarts so many aspects of our... capacity. That's outside of our bodies. I have, you know. I know, but we're still,

we're still kind of cyborgs in a way with the technology we have, and it's just getting closer to our skin. We are. But there's another, another aspect. So now I'm going to, I'm a systems thinker. I'm a scientist. I'm a systems thinker. And I look at the big, big overarching picture, not to get stuck in it, but to recognize it and then zero into the nanomomomomomomomoment of where we are right now. And we talked about this seven months ago. There is. a bigger picture here. There's a fundamental battle between good and evil. And a lot of people don't want to recognize that. They don't want to acknowledge that battle. Can you refine that because a battle between good and evil feels like it to me falls a little bit, just in the

verbiage that's used kind of under a, I suppose, magical, mythical, like level of consciousness or stage of development? Yeah. And there are just different polarities in a way, right? There are, and I appreciate that. I mean, even when I was born and raised in a rural community in northern Missouri here in the United States, we used to joke about this stuff. You know, we'd say, oh, good and evil, yeah, there's a little devil, there's about this big. He had horns and a red tail on his shoulder, and the angel over here, and they're having this conversation. But there is a fundamental battle between good and evil, and there are so many different ways, between light and dark, that is expressed as good. good and evil. We live in the world of polarities. We're always going to have the polarities,

the light and the dark. Those polarities express in different ways. One of the ways they express is through what we call good and evil. And there's so many different ways to approach this. One of the first times I became familiar with it was in my study of the Dead Sea Scrolls. And I'll just encapsulate this briefly. The scrolls were discovered in 1945, 46, 47, 11, caves, Qumran in Israel. And they were discovered in 45 through and 46 primarily, but the information was not allowed to be released to the public until the early 90s. It was 45 years. And you say, what could be the problem? What could possibly be in a 2,500-year-old scroll that would warrant the Vatican intervening and not allowing this information and legal proceedings? And legal proceedings,

and the money and the energy in the time, what could possibly be in there? Well, the answer is, and you can't make this up, it was found in the first cave, cave number one, in the first vase that they found in cave number one when they opened, it was sealed, and the first scroll that they pulled out that was 19 columns that colloquially is called the war scroll. And the war scroll in the language of the Aseans, the mystical sect that appeared 500 years before the time of Jesus of Nazareth, the war scroll describes where we are right now. So it's ancient, but it's not obsolete, it's current. We are living what is called the battle between the suns of darkness and the sons of light. And I said this at a live event a couple of weeks ago, and there's a woman in the audience that took offense

because she felt it was sexist. And so I want to clarify, 2,500 years ago, they weren't dealing with gender issues that we are today. So Sons of Darkness and Sons of Light is all-inclusive, male and female. Okay, so I just want to clarify that.

That battle between the Sons of Darkness and the Sons of Light, it plays out in insidious ways. Sometimes that battle is kinetic. All right? And we're seeing that on boots on the ground in a number of places around the world today, often that battle is psychological,

and we're seeing this play out in social media. The battle between the Sons of Darkness and the Sons of Light, the goal of that battle is to veil human kind from their power and from their potential, from their divinity. Having access to our divinity frees us from fear, and fear is a prize commodity in the battle, between good and evil. When we are freed of fear, when we learn to love without fear and forgive

without fear, and imagine freely and create freely and share information freely and heal our bodies, because we're wired to heal our bodies, these are all expressions of our divinity. When we are veiled, we can't lose it, but we can be veiled from it. We'll always have it, but we may not know that we have that divinity, that is a form of evil. And that form of evil is playing out in our lives and our world right now, right now. And the goal is to disempower our humanness so that we are more vulnerable to the ideas and the agendas and ultimately the control of others. And we're seeing that. That's not a secret. We're seeing that play out. We aren't often given the opportunity to think of it within this larger context.

The thing about a battle between good and evil, the old ideas of a battle are where forces are actually pitted against one another, this is a very different kind of battle on the spiritual level. This is Know Thyself podcast. The deeper we know ourselves, we discover that we don't want to win this battle because that would imply that we are meeting force with force. And we're more than that. We're more than that.

We're human. And in our humanness, we don't win. We triumph. And the way that we triumph is by living our humanists, being the best version of ourselves, living, loving, healing, creating, imagining, innovating freely. That is how we triumph over this battle between good and evil. And so within that context, now you begin to see the transhuman movement. And I'm not saying everyone in the transhuman movement is aware of what we're talking about. They're pawns.

Many of them are pawns, but when you go up into a higher level, this is exactly what's happening. The movement, the mass movement to shield humankind from their truest nature, to shield humankind from their divinity in a world that is being conditioned. It's not good for us. So this is all part of the big picture. Now, you don't have to know any of that. The beauty is you don't have to know any of that. You live the best version of yourself.

and you live it to the best of your ability, knowing that ultimately when you do that, you are triumphing in this battle between good and evil. What is so interesting is in the scrolls, they identify seven battles that happen between the Sons of Darkness and the Sons of Light. Three of those are won by the Sons of Darkness, three are won by the Sons of Light. That's only six. the seventh battle, according to the scrolls, is won by the Sons of Light. However, the caveat is it is only one after the Sons of Light accept their own divinity

and through divine intervention from a higher power, whatever that means. So it implies that by us accepting the deep truth of who we are, that opens the door to a deep connection to a greater power that allows us to transcend to triumph, not to win, but to triumph in this ancient and ongoing battle. And that context, I think, changes everything. Because here's what it does, Andre, we're living in the world. And it's up for everybody right now. We're all going to get through this and we're all going to be okay. and it's not going to last forever. There's a little window of time where these fundamental shifts are happening.

And when this is over, I would love to come back and sit in this chair and have this conversation with you and let's see how it all went down. But the key for all of us, we're going to get through it. The question is, what do we become in the presence

of what life brings to our doorstep when we're going through the battle? What do we allow the events of the world to make us into. Do we allow the events unfolding in the world, whether it's politics or war or finances or a pandemic or whatever it is, or our personal lives, it's up for us in our personal lives, our relationship, because it's all connected. Do we allow those events to drive us to the most primal denominator, the lowest common denominator,

of our human instincts, do those events drive us to hate, to want revenge, to fear, or do those events awaken within us the deep truth of our love, our compassion, our forgiveness? And when we do have to fight, and sometimes we do, and I'm not saying it's a kinetic battle, but there's a part of all of us that has to create boundaries in our lives. and when someone crosses those boundaries, we have to express ourselves, but here's the thing. Do we fight from our love

of what we know is possible and in support of those behind us, our family and our friends and our loved ones, or do we fight from our hate and from our fear of what we think is the enemy in front of us? That is the most fundamental battle, and we're all up against this right now, and especially we're in the United States of America, we're seeing a divided nation right now. And I'm not saying everyone thinks or needs to think on this

level. I'm not saying that. But ultimately, what I'm seeing happening, this is exactly what's happening. We have just gone through a very difficult couple of years for a number of reasons. We can't change what happened, but we can change how we respond to what happened. What did those years do to us? What did we allow those years do us? Did we allow the events of the world to define who we are? Or do we choose to become more than those events? That is the difference between access to our divinity and not having access to our divinity. Those who are veiled from their divinity believe they have no choice. They're in fear. And they will succumb to the dark forces, the evil, the group think, the hate, whatever you want to call it, they'll succumb to that.

And they're still our brothers and sisters. And so I think all we can do is love. We're going to love this world into a better place and we're going to love this world. Our love becomes the bridge for those who are lost and haven't found that love in their lives. For whatever reason, without any judgment, somebody's got to do it first. And so as we find a way to love to the best of our abilities, then we become the bridge for someone else, either by example, or energetically, in the field. You don't even have to know what's happening to love. Does that make sense if I say it that way? Yeah, that was great. I love that whole bit. That was amazing. It was really powerful. This is important because if you don't know, and it's no secret. I mean, if you watch, we're musicians,

you watch the Grammys a couple of years ago, there were pure satanic rituals that were playing out under the guise of entertainment. Yeah, there was some pretty weird stuff on it. On the stage, if you watch, this is the year 2024, if you watch the Olympics in France, why would the pale horse of death need to ride down the river to open a ceremony for the best of the best, beautiful young athletes in our planet to compete? They're not even trying to hide it anymore, Andre. It's almost like a mockery. It's out.

And there were other things, you know, the Last Supper, you know, all those things that were happening. they're not even trying to hide it because this battle is up for all of us. And I'm not saying everyone has to think this way. Know thyself is one aspect. And we've also heard that knowledge is power. And lack of knowledge is lack of power. So if we don't know that we are in this fundamental battle,

not to win, but to triumph, then it's easy to get locked into the thinking. and it's easy. And there's a difference between judgment and discernment. I want to be really clear about this. It's not to judge that evil at all. That's where you get stuck. When you judge, you create a charge,

and that charge is going to bring it into your life every time. You discern. You recognize, is this evil? Yep, that's evil. I think I don't want that in my life for my children. You allow its existence, but you walk away from it in your life. That's very different than hate. That's very different than fear.

and these are the spiritual, the deepest spiritual principles that are up for all of us right now. It's a spiritual and a psychological battle that's happening right now. But other than that, not much going on. I'm an optimist. I'm laughing, not at what we said. I'm smiling and laughing at the joy of the triumph because we're human. This is the whole point. We are human.

We are the only form of life who has ever been given. in the gifts of divinity and the ability to self-regulate our own biology at will, on demand, when we choose, no other form of life can do that. And there's been a concerted effort for decades to denigrate our humanness and to discourage young people from having confidence in life and in their own bodies. And that's reflected in a lot of choices that I see young people in our events and they say, we don't have a future. We can't. We can't think about retirement. We can't think about our dreams.

We don't think the world is going to be here for us. And that's sad to me because there's so much good stuff. And when you begin to see what our humanness is really all about, the humans must prevail. And I wrote this book to advocate for our humanness. Yeah, because the awareness of what's at play is really important. But coupled with that needs to be like you do so eloquently. and I strive to do on this podcast is share empowering messages about what we're really made of who we are and allowing and supporting people to become sovereign individuals.

In that state, you have the most capacity to affect change. I've shared the quote from MLK Jr. many times that those who love peace need to learn how to organize themselves as much as those who love war. And so, again, I appreciate the invitation and reminder that this, like, love a docile kind of, I feel like also can be viewed as a turning away of it of all of these problems. You know, it's like the original kind of woodstock kind of energy, which is great. The evolved 2.0 version of it is to still embrace the energy of love and yet don't turn your face away from it, but actually be an agent of change because we need people who embrace and

understand themselves and embrace love to be in positions of power that are making decisions that affect humanity at large? I love it when you talk that way. I couldn't say that better. That's a beautiful summary of what we're saying here. And I just want to acknowledge, I know for a lot of people, it's a very different way of thinking.

It is a very different way of thinking. Also, I had an interesting exchange with someone recently. And in many ways, and you've heard me say this, I think the new thought, new age movement, open the door to a lot of possibilities. In many ways, it disempowered people. by leading them to believe things that are not necessarily true about themselves and fearing many things. So I had a woman say to me, Greg, you shouldn't talk about these things because if you talk about it, you're going to make them happen.

That energy is going to follow the thinking. And she's afraid to think of certain things because if she thinks that it's going to happen, this is the fallacy. And I don't want people to ever be afraid. one of the gifts of our humanness is our ability to think and simulate in our minds, all possibilities, just on a down-to-earth grounded basis. We do this. When you get into a new relationship with a potential partner, we simulate all the time. What could happen?

Could this look at the long term? Could I have children with these people? Is this person going to be honest with me? Or are they going to betray me? Can I trust them with my deepest, you know, my deepest sharing? That's simulating in the mind that we go through all of this. So we all do the simulation. To think about something does not give it life.

And this is where the Gnostic texts that were edited out of the modern biblical canon by the church. But these were discovered in 1945 and Nag Hammadi, the Nag Hammadi Library, are very clear about this. It's not what you think about. It's the energy that you place into the thought, your love for what you think or your fear. of what you are thinking will breathe life into that thought. To simply think about it is not a sin and it is not dangerous to consider we're the only form of life that can do that. So to think about the polarities of the world and light and dark expressed as good and evil and to discern that evil is present in this organization or in this entertainment does not bring it into our

lives. And I think it's important to make that distinction because I know people that are afraid to think about certain things because they're scared to death that's going to bring it in their lives. It's not the thought. It's your fear of that thought, your love of that thought. Yeah, it's just like Bucky Fuller's quote, building new systems that make them make the old ones obsolete. You know, it's important to become aware of it. And then where are you investing your time? Are you building towards new systems or are you going to stay in that fear of paradigm? God bless the well-intentioned woman that came up to you, but she, in that instance, is in the energy of fear. It's almost like an intellectual chastity belt. Well, it is. So now, let's go back to the beginning

of this conversation. What's happening in our world? We all know the world's different. The world is changing. The world feels like it's coming apart at the seams for no apparent reason. The world feels like it's in chaos. And if you're not looking at the big picture, I can see where it would be. but what we're experiencing on this planet right now, it's not spontaneous, it is organized. It's not random. It is systematic. We are barreling down the road toward an endpoint that has been identified by organizations, beings, and powers that be right around the year 2030.

Something is incoming 2030. And what you're seeing are the power structures of the world jockeying. for position to be in the best place when that happens. UN is part of that. That's why they've designated, they didn't say United Nations Sustainable Development Goals 2031, you know, or 2035, and the WEF is looking at 2030, and financial institutions are ending the loan programs and banking things, all looking at that 2030 window of time, there are powers that be that believe that the world needs to be remade by the year 2030, and part of that remaking is the remaking of the human body. So this conversation is very relevant. The opening keynote at the World Economic Forum in

2022 was a keynote where the statement was made that human biology is now hackable. We are a hackable technology is the way they're looking at us. And because we are hackable, we have. We have. have what in computer lingo was called right code permission or right level permission to change the code. Part of the remaking of the world around us cannot be complete until they remake the world within us. This is what is called the Fourth Industrial Revolution or the Great Reset. The digitization of the world and the human body into a common system that can be regulated by a massive AI. It's the matrix. Well, where does the matrix come from? And where do those ideas come from? Well, I love how you share in Pure Human as well that consciousness informs itself through its creation.

And you look at through so many different books. You actually read this book. I'm honored. I did. Of course, man. You're so big, you have somebody every week. I don't know how you even do that. So thank you. No, I always got, I have to honor the guest. But it's a really important reflection because you see through the Matrix, through Avatar, through these movies and media, the collective consciousness is kind of informing both its desires, hopes, fears, and very real possibilities that are on the horizon to come. The Matrix being one of us. Like one sector, understanding of the transhuman movement taken so far down one rabbit hole is like the trans, it's like the matrix where humans are used for their biological, electrical

charge and power for, you know, for that greater technological. So now I, yes. So now I go back the beginning of the conversation, our planet, if the goals are met, is being engineered into an ecosystem and into a climatic scenario that's not good for us. The wars, the depletion of our resources, depletion of population, the depletion of humankind to engage in the wars, that's not good for us. The replacement of our biology with technology, is not good for us on an evolutionary level because it stunts our ability for biological evolution. It's not good for us on a moral level because we're giving away our humanness. We're giving away the biology that is the link to our divinity.

Without the body, there is no link to that divinity. And that, for me, that's the battle. is the forces, the powers that be want to veil and shield us from our divine essence. They want us to forget who we are and believe that we're powerless beings and succumb to the technology that can be integrated and controlled. And I think that's what's up for us right now. We are about to give away our humanness before we even know what it means to be human. So that is the context, the really good news, is all the new science that is now revealing.

Once they stop looking at the human body from the perspective of biology, once they started looking at the biology from an IT, an engineering perspective, this is such a different way of thinking. You know, what happens with ion potentials moving across a cell wall? That's a very different way. And how can we, how adapt we are we at doing that on demand? You know, when we choose self-regulating our immune system, self-regulating our resilience, our super learning, super memory, super capacity, all of that stuff.

And we're only beginning to understand really the potential of what and who we are. At the same time, we're about to give it away at least a portion of our society. And what I think will happen, and we've talked about this a little bit, I think you're seeing two parallel societies emerge right now at the same time. You're seeing a group, a segment of our population who is all in on everything, all the tech in their bodies, out of their bodies, the newest gadgets, newest devices, computer chips in the brain, give it, you know, bring it on. Because they don't know any different. They don't know who they are. They don't know what they're giving away. they don't know the consequences of what that is.

All they know is maybe life feels easier, but at what price? What price do we pay for the efficiency and the speed of a computer chip in the brain? And is it worth that price? And you see another part of society like my friend in the supermarket co-op who says, you know, something's not right. It's moving too fast. We need to go back to a simpler way of life. We need to grow our own food, take care of our own bodies, take care of our neighbors,

teach our kids at home because we don't like what they're learning in the public schools. They don't know all the stuff necessarily we're talking about, but they know something's not right. And you're seeing both of those at the same time. Yeah. Yeah, and there must be a middle path. There must be a middle way. So I was just going to get to that. So here's where I think we'll go, because we're going to do what humans always do. We're going to go down those paths or we're going to check each other out because humans check each other out. And we're going to say, who's happier, who's healthier, whose lives are more fulfilled?

And the answer to that question, I think, will determine ultimately where those paths engage. And I think at some point we will probably see some kind of emerging where we don't reject the technology in mass. We just don't accept it into our bodies. where we appreciate the AI, let the AI do what AI does for us, but not be enslaved by the AI. And now that we know the potentials, the epigenetic potentials of the human body, let's develop those. And that's why I'm excited. I think this is a critical point. I was honored and privileged in the 1990s to tour with a number of amazing leaders, scientists, and engineers, and among those was John Mack, the Harvard-trained psychologist, head of his

department of psychiatry, who became well known because of his effort to legitimize a phenomenon that at that time was called alien abduction phenomenon, people all over the world, saying that they had been taken by an advanced form of life onto these craft for a number of reasons. and before John Mack came along, these were chalked up to hallucinations, mental illness. They weren't really acknowledged. He legitimizes, he said, look, this happened all over the world. Let's study this as a science.

Let's document it. Let's see where the common themes are. And one of the things that they found was from Brazil to North America, all through Europe, no matter where it was, people would ask the question that I'm sure you and I would ask if it were to happen to us. You know, why me? Why did you take me? What is what's happening here?

And there were two scenarios that were really well documented. One of those scenarios was that the beings either verbally or sometimes telepathically, would say that they are an advanced form of life that, crossed a path in their past where we are right now, where they had to choose between biology and technology. They chose technology. They gave their biology away. They're sorry for that choice. It didn't work out well for them. They want their biology back. And they're encouraging us not to go the technological path. So that was one set of scenarios. The other one to me is really fascinating because the beings were not alien beings from another world they were us

humans from our own future who were coming back and saying you're at the point now where you're about to give your humanness away we are the result of that and they they weren't kind looking beings they'd lost their abilities to reproduce sexually everything was asexual they lost their emotion, sympathy, empathy, empathy, compassion, all of that, and they want it back. And so they're hoping that first, by warning us not to make the choice in their past, that it will change what happens in their future. And secondly, they're hoping that some of our DNA can at least give them back some semblance of their own humanness. So whether we believe either one of those stories, I think it's interesting they're both pointing in the same direction,

and they're saying there's something about us that is so beautiful and powerful, precious, ancient, that we have forgotten who we are, and we've forgotten this force within us, for lack of a better term, we call divinity. You know, we never defined that term in this conversation, the contemporary definition of divinity simply means the ability to transcend perceived limitations. And that's it. Transcend become more than perceived. Those limits may not even be real. We've accepted them. We've been indoctrinated to accept them through science and religion and community and society and culture, but they may not even be real. The transhumanist could adopt that term, though, as transcending perceived limitations as well.

So I feel like there needs to be a more refined definition for divinity in the way you're using. Well, we're doing it naturally. We're doing it through our own biology, and that's it. And I can see why there would be an attempt to veil that from us because it empowers us to the degree that it does. So those stories, I think, they all come back to the same story. There's something inside of us that is rare and precious. We're awakening to what that is. The science is doing so in its way.

Culturally, we're learning about in our own ways. It's all happening within this umbrella, this ancient scenario of a fundamental battle between good and evil. And the goodness is us accepting our own divinity and empowering ourselves. And it all comes down to love. Maybe that's a good way to close. This conversation, the question is, do we love ourselves enough? Do we love ourselves enough to accept the deep truth of what it means to be human and the responsibility of human divinity? and the choices we make in our lives right now

are the answer to that question. Nicola Tesla has quoted something along the lines of when science begins to study a non-physical phenomena, it will make more progress in a decade than all of its previous existence. And I don't exactly know how one studies non-physical phenomena, but I can relate with,

and maybe you can share, But as we talked about earlier, how consciousness informs itself through its creations, and we have the societal, cultural, fascination, attraction for these superhero, Superman-like capabilities. And before we close out, if you're open to exploring this a little bit more, it's speaking to an aspect of the innate power we feel we have within us that we haven't fully unlocked yet for most of us. Sure. And just to kind of round out this whole conversation, please share anything that you have with what I just said. But also there is this whole, from our conversation last time, talking about the power of the neurates of the heart,

to mirror neurons, to neuropeptides, to the quantum biology, to a lot of the emerging science about the power of being human is emerging. It sheds some positive light. For any of our viewers that were not with us last time, what I'll say is there is an emerging philosophy in the world crossing the boundaries of many of the sciences, and you encapsulate it through the words, consciousness informs itself through its creations. And what it suggests is that the things we build in the world around us are telling us something important

that we are asking ourselves to remember collectively. So books, music, you know, movies, things like that, that we think are entertainment, and they are, but they may be more than simply entertainment. They may be, there may be a theme in those that is asking us to remember something about ourselves. And if that's true for books and sculpture and dance and art and music, it must hold for technology. So now we look at the most advanced technologies that are being built in the world around us. And we say, what is that technology asking us to remember about ourselves? And you look at the themes, I mean, the Internet is all about connectivity.

And now we know that we are entangled. The Nobel Prize for Physics in 2022 was for the discovery and the confirmation of what we call entanglement of matter. We are all connected. That was Nobel Prize. Look at DNA. and the way that DNA stores information, what we now know is that every successful genetic mutation species-wide that has been accepted is stored in our,

we have a walking library of this, but look at the qualities. It is transparent. Anybody that knows how to read it, it's right there, you can't hide it. It is secure. It is immutable. And those are the very, qualities that are the foundation for the revolution in decentralized finance and what we call

blockchain technology, the blockchain software actually is built to mimic the way information is stored in human DNA. If consciousness is informing itself through its creation, here we are building blockchain. What are we asking ourselves to remember? The same thing is true with all kinds of communications and all of these. So I'm not surprised. I'm not surprised. that we would be attracted, both as adults and young people, to films that remind us of the part of ourselves that we sense is available, but we've lost, and we so long for our wholeness. Our prime directive in life is to find our wholeness, to seek our wholeness. and we will find other people to have relationships with,

to seek our wholeness that will hold pieces of their conscious experience that we've lost, given away, or had taken from us and ours. That is what the attraction is. It's like a magnet. When you're with someone that has the pieces that you've lost, you say, actually, I feel whole or I feel complete or I feel really good with this person, and we do. because when you're together, you feel that wholeness and completeness.

So our prime directive, we want that wholeness. And the films that reflect the ideas of our superpowers. That's why young people are so drawn, you know, The Avengers, Wonder Woman, Harry Potter, exploring our relationship with the natural world. That's why we're drawn to the movie Avatar. That was the highest grossing box office film until 2024. I think it was the highest grossing box office film of all time. It exceeded even The Matrix.

The Matrix, you mentioned that. The Matrix is my dear spiritual brother, my 30-plus-year friend and colleague, Dr. Bruce Lipton. We were touring Europe on a train in 1999 when that film came out. I remember Bruce looked at me. He was in a seat across from me, and that movie had come out, and I said, hey, brother, you want to see this? this film, it just came out.

And he got his Bruce Lipton look. And he's very serious. He says, oh, he says, people think that's science fiction. He goes, it's a documentary. Because it was telling us there's a world that we cannot see, that influences a world that we can see and that we exist in both those worlds. Of course, there was the Hollywood shoot them up and Neo bending over backwards 90 degrees as the bullets go by in slow motion.

And that made it all cool. But you look at the theme. There's a world that we cannot see that influences what happens every day. And we're in both those worlds. Avatar, our relationship to the natural world is vital. I mean, that's what those. Inception. Did you ever see the film Inception?

It was about the ability to consciously drop into lucid dream states. And then from one lucid dream state to go to a deeper dream state. and then a deeper dream. So it was dream within dream within dream. And people that had learned to do that would meet. And rubber-stamp business deals, entire business deals would be happening. And then they'd walk into the boardroom the next day. And it was a done deal.

And everybody else was looking around and said, what just happened, you know? But to them it had already been done. It was a deep movie. It didn't stay in the theaters very long. It went to Netflix. pretty quick. Yeah, even maybe before his time. Yeah, but all of these, the point, all of these are reminding us of something about ourselves.

And if we have the wisdom to recognize it, Andre, we can have fun with it and say, it's fun to do that. To go through movies that are available to us and say, what is this movie telling me about myself? What is the movie reminding us about our relationship to the world around us? Some are very blatant, some are more subtle. Some are just crummy movies, and there's no message. I'm not saying it's every single one, but I think we see a predominance of that.

You said returning to wholeness is our prime directive. Sure. And as these messages of empowerment, both awareness of the possibilities for the light and the dark and what happens in the next coming 10 years, going to be some pretty wild stuff. What is best for us to do is to return to wholeness so we can best be an agent of change and support people in our unique capacity that we have to.

I see you living your Dharma doing what you do, writing your books, coming on this podcast, sharing the way you have for decades. It's really supported so many people. And I think we all yearn for that return and remembrance of wholeness and discovering, unlocking, sharing, what is our unique gift, how we can show up in the unique capacity we can. And any messages you have for how you feel people can most effectively do so, because I know it's a longing. It is. It's different for everyone. And I think it all comes down to love.

Do we love ourselves enough? I'm going to look right in the camera to our community, and I'll be very personal. Do you love yourself enough to honestly embrace the deep truth of what it means to be a human in the Earth realm at this time and history? and the responsibility that comes with your humanness as a bridge to your divinity. And I think that's all we can ask of ourselves.

What does that mean? It means living the best version of ourselves. Live in our joy. Where's our passion? Where's our creativity? But being kind as we achieve those goals. Not ruthlessly stepping on the backs of all of the friends around us to get to that goal, but being kind to ourselves, being kind to one another.

as we learn about our power and as we learn to love, to love without fear. A lot of people, everyone loves, I think, to some degree. Many of us have been hurt in our love, and there's a reluctance to surrender our love to something greater in relationship, maybe with another person, or maybe with God, or maybe with whatever, our passion, whatever it is. But because we've been hurt, we hold a little bit back just in case it doesn't work out. Divinity frees us and allows us to love fully. And in that fullness, we surrender our personal sense for something more and something greater

that can only be achieved by loving fully. Forgiving without fear, without expectation. Many people forgive and then they look around to see who just saw them do the forgiving because they want some kind of acknowledgement or recognition. True forgiveness comes from within and there may be no one that ever knows that forgiveness has happened. But this is a powerful part of our divinity. Our healing begins in divinity. Our healing is an inside job and it has to begin with our sense of ourselves. Our sense of worth is certainly a big part of this.

We don't feel worthy of our own healing. How's the body going to receive the signal to kick those chemicals in the process and begin the healing? So our healing is a powerful part of our divinity. Imagination. Many people are afraid to imagine. Or now the kids, kids, young people are using AI. They will write the words to a song with AI, 7 to 10 minutes, where it used to take, you know, maybe a day or a couple of days to find those words.

And then 10 minutes later, the AII will put the music to the song, and now they've kicked something out that was all done artificially. And that influences the biology of the body. It influences the way we think, the way we feel. Is it a form of creativity? Sure. And we have to just be honest to ask ourselves, where we... How much of ourselves do we want to give away to the technology and to the machines around us? So living the best version of ourselves means the ability to create, to imagine, to share. Sovereignty is a big part of that.

Divinity is freedom. Humans are meant to express freely. And anything that steals from us our sovereignty is not good for us. anything that steals from us our ability to imagine, our ability to create, our ability to heal, our ability to love, our ability to forgive, anything that veils that from us is a form of evil. And from that perspective, the transhuman movement en masse to be imposed upon a global population from my perspective is a form of evil. And I think it's important to recognize that.

Thank you. Thank you for sharing. I resonate so strongly, obviously, throughout this whole conversation just with themes that are really important to put at the forefront of people's awareness and then do it, do with it what you may, you know? It's a different way of thinking, and I'm acknowledging that. And what I think is important is to be aware, knowledge is power, to be aware of the structure and the framework that is driving the change in the world so that you're not afraid of it.

Don't be afraid of the change. be aware that there's a fundamental battle to veil our truest potential. And the way that you triumph in that battle is to live your potential. Live your potential, joyously, celebrate your humanness. And I think what I'd like to leave our viewers with, and I think probably the greatest task for any of us is to preserve, protect, and cherish the gift. of our bodies. Because our bodies, as our ancestors told us, are the temple that houses something

beautiful and precious, and we now know that that is our divinity. Ancient traditions always, when they built the temples in Egypt or Greece, they would build them in layers, in the innermost sanctum, always held the highest knowledge and the most precious wisdom. If I, our body is a temple, we have not one Holy of Holies is what they were called, but we have 50 trillion Holy of Holies because every cell in our body holds the DNA that tunes us to our love and our healing and our forgiveness and our imagination, creativity, and healing, that is our divinity. So I think our greatest task in this world is to preserve, protect, and cherish the gift of our bodies and in that way we honor our divinity and we honor what it means to be human yeah so many important

reminders Greg thank you so much for coming back on we'll leave a link to pure human where people can check out the book and anything else you want to share before we wrap up where people can stay connected to you we covered a lot of ground I just want to thank everyone for clicking the link that brings us together because we know that your your day is valuable and that means a lot to us. It means a lot to me and I think I can speak on behalf of the team here and those working even behind the scenes that you're not seeing right now. Shout out Chelsea. Yeah, Chelsea. It means a lot that you trust us with part of your day. I want to say thank you for that. I look forward to our next. Blessings. Everybody, thank you so much for tuning into this episode of the Nail-Lyself podcast. Thanks for coming on this

journey. What a fun ride. Until next time, be well.