Know Thyself - E139 - Lewis Howes: The Secret to Unlocking Real Abundance (It’s Not What You Think)

Episode Date: March 18, 2025

Lewis Howes delves into the concept of prosperity, exploring the deeper meanings behind real abundance. He emphasizes that gratitude and generosity serve as powerful gateways to a more fulfilling life, while also addressing the importance of transcending a scarcity mindset. He encourages us to discover our unique definitions of a rich life, alongside practical strategies for investing in ourselves and our futures. The episode also highlights the significance of planting seeds for a brighter tomorrow and cultivating the skills necessary for success. Andrés Book Recs: https://www.knowthyself.one/books___________0:00 Intro 1:06 What It Mean to Prosper5:00 Gratitude and Generosity as a Gateway to Abundance 12:03 Transcending Scarcity Mindset15:30 Balancing Boundaries and Generosity 19:02 Giving Through Charity & Service29:35 Finding Your Version of a Rich Life44:00 Best Ways to Invest In Yourself & Your Future52:03 Planting Seeds for a Brighter Future58:13 Cultivating the Skills to Succeed1:04:32 The Mastermind Habit: Making Meaningful Connections1:09:42 When to Say “No” to Money1:14:03 The Biggest Money Blocks1:28:42 Making Money as a Spiritual Person1:35:35 Mastering Your Money Mindset 1:40:00 Detachment & Holding It All Loosely 1:43:57 Conclusion ___________Episode Resources: https://www.instagram.com/lewishowes/New Book: https://a.co/d/1CSfKaKhttps://www.youtube.com/@lewishoweshttps://www.instagram.com/andreduqum/https://www.instagram.com/knowthyself/https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJ4wglCWTJeWQC0exBalgKghttps://www.knowthyself.oneListen to the show:Spotify: https://spoti.fi/4bZMq9lApple: https://apple.co/4iATICX

Your relationship with money is one of the most powerful relationships you have. Gratitude and generosity is the gateway to abundance. The biggest blocks of abundance is people's money wounds. Our beliefs influence our behaviors. How we think and feel influences the way we act and react to certain things in life. And a lot of our beliefs are just shaped by our story around what we heard, saw, or learned growing up. I think everyone should ask themselves what is a definition of a rich life and what does abundance look like for them? What does wealth look like for them?

I've asked this to a lot of wealthy individuals, like, what do you think is the secret to earning and making more financially and also feeling good? And they always say the best skills you can cultivate are the things you're most afraid of. You gain a superpower when you overcome a fear and you develop a skill around it. And I think the goal is to figure out how can we be peaceful, harmonious, and feel whole, no matter where we are financially. Lewis, my man, welcome back.

Thanks for having me. man. Yeah, it's my pleasure. What does it mean and what does it look like for you? What does it feel like to live a rich, prosperous, and abundant life? Wholeness, peace, and abundance, the feeling of abundance. I think a lot of times in my life, I didn't feel like I was living a prosperous life because I felt wounded. I felt scarce. I felt insecure. I felt like I was doubting myself. And those doubts made me feel like I was living in scarcity versus living in an abundance of possibilities of freedom of peace.

And so for me, the rich life is living a peaceful, abundant life. It's so important to define what that is for us, right? Because we're fed with so many notions of what it means to be rich or wealthy, but we all have a different psychological makeup and what's going to make us uniquely fulfilled. And so how important do you feel like that question

from a wide perspective is to ask? I think everyone should ask themselves, what is a definition of a rich life? And what does abundance look like for them? What does wealth look like for them? If you would have asked me when I was in my 20s, I'd have been like, have a millions of dollars in the bank and being able to do whatever I want whenever I want. And that's an element maybe to feeling rich for me. But there are a lot of millionaires and billionaires that I've met or interviewed or know who don't have that inner piece. They have a lot of net worth, but they don't have self-worth. They have a lot of, you know, money, but they're almost trapped from their money.

And it's making them more stressed out and more anxious and more insecure than secure feeling. And there's almost like never enough money will give them that piece they're looking for. So I would rather not have that, but feel rich and abundant in the inside of me, in my heart and my mind, then have all the money in the world and feel trapped. I think about the qualities that we can cultivate as a human being that then attracts and magnetizes to us what's meant for us in so many ways and the right amounts of finances. So we're not too stressed,

but it covers our needs and allows us to creatively express to all the different areas of life. And we're really, we have it backwards and most people are familiar with this notion of have, do, be. Once I have X, Y, and Z, then I'll be able to do X, Y, and Z, and then I can be happy, fulfilled, etc. and I guess this conversation is really inviting us to flip it in reverse

and seeing how we can cultivate the qualities of who I want to be for life for others, the universe, my work, my relationships, and then I'll be able to do, and then the things I have will be a byproduct of those efforts. They'll amplify the energy, the feelings that I already have. If I'm being joyful, grateful, present, curious, passionate, If I'm being those things, I'll be a magnet to be able to create more and I'll have more of the things that I'm creating, but it'll be a byproduct of the energy that I'm putting out there.

So I love that. It's such a simple concept. And I feel like everyone in our industry are watching, you've probably heard that. But sometimes we need that reminder that it's not about to have, do, and then I'll be, you know, grateful or then I'll be more generous. Or then I'll be more giving. It's like, we need to be more giving and generous first. then I can have more of the results. It's easy for us to slip back into that,

oh, happiness is just around the corner after that one little thing or new milestone or number. And yeah, it's so important to get advice from people who live your definition of a rich life who have those meaningful connections and are contributing to a more beautiful world and are financially abundant and are physically vital and like these things.

And those individuals that I've talked to, and I'm sure that you've talked to, have really put emphasis on the beginning part of who you're being. And so I would love for us to kind of break down and get your perspective on all the qualities of that abundant person. Like the qualities we cultivate internally,

and then we can go and talk about the money, the relationships, the things that kind of come, you know, on the journey after that. I just believe that gratitude and generosity is the gateway to abundance. And so if we aren't living in gratitude in a consistent basis in our lives.

And we aren't thinking generously. This doesn't have to be, I have to give my money to people freely, but how can I be generous with time, resources, information, generous with my presence again, generous with my paying attention and looking people in the eyes, generous with listening, with an open heart,

generous with being passionate about someone else's success and not just needing something for myself. Generous as a giver, not a taker. If I can be grateful for where I'm at, and really appreciate the things that I'm that I'm grateful for. That appreciation will continue to appreciate in value. It will grow and expand in value what you're grateful for. Therefore, you'll have more of it externally,

but definitely more gratitude internally. And my whole business and career really started from a place of depression and sadness because I didn't have what I wanted. So I was sleeping on my sister's couch for a year and a half in my early mid-20s. And I had this taker energy, taking mentality. Why am I stuck?

Why did this happen to me? Why can't I get out of this? Why am I broke? Why do my dreams just crash down? Why am I injured? You know, this kind of sadness, have pity on me energy. And nothing good came from that. Some people had pity on me and they gave me some 20 bucks here and there,

but it didn't generate something externally or internally that felt good. And it wasn't in terms of. I realized and started listening and started learning that I have to be more grateful and I've got to be a giver. That's when everything started to shift from me internally. I started to feel more abundant, even when I was broke. And there's kind of four things that we can all be. We can either be broke and miserable. We can be broke and happy. We can be financially successful and miserable, or we can be financially successful and happy. And we get to choose where we're at

in terms of the energy we are on either being broke or having money. And when I was broke and miserable, it's not a good place to be. It's just not enjoyable. Broken and happy was an incredible place to be. I didn't enjoy living on my sister's couch, not being able to pay for things.

I didn't enjoy that. But I felt like, man, I can take on the world with this energy. I can learn anything. can meet anyone. It was like possibilities were all around me because I started shifting that energy on the inside by being grateful and being generous with the hidden gifts that were inside of me. And I didn't even know I had talents, but those talents turned into prosperity for me. And then I've also been, you know, I've also had financial success and been miserable.

And that's almost worse than being broke and being miserable. It's almost as bad because you have everything you think you're supposed to have, but you don't feel good enough. You still don't feel enough. You're missing something still. Yeah. If you're broken miserable, at least you have the illusion of one day I won't be. Exactly. Yeah. Or it's like you're at the bottom. Okay, I can't get any worse than this. But when you have money and you have financial security and you have options, but you don't love yourself, but you can't look in the mirror and forgive yourself, but every relationship around you is broken, or you feel like everyone's out to get you,

or you can't really understand the purpose of your life still. It is terrifying. It's like, oh, I have this money, and I feel like I'm supposed to feel happy. I got the thing, have, then I'll be, but I'm not being happy. Now what? It's terrifying.

It's terrifying being broke and miserable also, but this is also terrifying. And I think the goal is to figure out, How can we be peaceful, harmonious, and feel whole no matter where we are financially or where we are opportunity-wise? And it's very tricky and hard to do. I'm not saying this is easy. And it's a constant journey of appreciating your own value and your own process.

We were just talking before about changes in podcasting and how sometimes it's harder and how it's like more tiring at times and how other people could be popping off. And you're like, man, what are they doing that I'm not doing? It's like the comparison game at any level can be daunting. And that's why being grateful and being generous will unlock more abundance no matter how much you have. And I think if you can continue to remind yourself to live on that moment by moment one day at a time, gratitude and generosity, that is richness, that is wealth, that is prosperity. and it's so hard to not think about the goals and the results you want to create,

but I have found that I have way less stress and much more peace. When I live in that day-to-day, sure, I have big goals and dreams, but letting go of the results, letting go of what will happen, and knowing that I'll be okay, no matter what results happen in my life,

for me, that's a richer life. There's nothing quite as valuable as finding peace inherent, I guess, outside of any circumstance when you're broke. Like, I look back at times when I was splitting $800 apartment with four people and had, you know, and it was very struggling. Didn't feel on purpose or like I had a direction really fully, wasn't living as fulfilled as I knew I could. And those, like, there's that saying, don't let a crisis go to waste. Those are valuable moments.

When you're not sure you don't have the prosperity. but you still choose to feel prosperous. And there is that Buddhist context that I really like. There's four types of people. There's people that are going from darkness to darkness. We're familiar with those people. There's people that are going from darkness to brightness, those that are choosing irrespective of the external circumstances

to move in the direction of generosity, these qualities of being abundant instead of scarce. There's people that are going from brightness to darkness where you might have through whatever past actions, karma, whatever belief you want to have, a good life, but you're continuing to make decisions that are bringing you towards ignorance. And there's people that are going from brightness to brightness.

And of course, we all want to be in that camp. But at times, you know, we're a little bit more loss. It's a little bit more hazy and more foggy. And cultivating that mindset of generosity is how we move towards brightness. And I look at the people that are truly successful in life, not just from a monetary standpoint, but from an internal riches standpoint. And they're very generous people. Generous with their time, generous with their energy. And yeah, I think that

that's something I really want to focus on cultivating that generous mindset and an abundant mindset, as opposed to a fear-based, scarce mindset. It's so hard to do when you have nothing. When you have nothing, you feel scarce if you don't learn the tools of gratitude and generosity. And these are two very simple basic tools that you've talked about a bunch on this show that everyone talks about. And it can be easily forgotten when you get stressed or overwhelmed or busy. And that's why it's just got to be built into your makeup. It's got to be built into, you know, I asked you when I came in, I go, what are you grateful for today? I say it all the time to people, just in conversation. What are you grateful for today? If you call my cell phone right now and you left a message,

on my answering machine, I say, thanks for calling. Tell me what you're grateful for first and then leave your message. I try to bake it into like all throughout my day to be grateful and to become more grateful because I could easily get frustrated of an employee doing something I didn't like or someone trying to take advantage of me or the idea of that I could easily go back into a dark place because I have that in me as well. So I need to remind myself to live in gratitude throughout the entire day. My wife this morning we wake up, what are you grateful for. What are you excited about? I try to step into excitement, joy, and passion because I know that energy attracts more good things in my life. And even if nothing comes to me in the external

world, I feel better. So how can I create a feeling of goodness, a feeling of brightness, a feeling of infecting people with love and positivity and getting others to think about what they're grateful for? I think that virus is a powerful virus that spreads positivity and spreads the idea of of abundance within people and gets them off of their maybe limiting mindset or their stressed out moment. I think when we can infect people with that positivity around gratitude, you are being generous. You're doing a two for one, gratitude and generosity by spreading that to someone else. And I'm always looking for ways to be generous as well.

And I just think that's the key and the pathway to creating internal abundance and external abundance. You mentioned how it can be and often is harder to be generous when you feel broke or you don't feel as fulfilled. And there's almost great use in that. Like when the resistance is harder, the opportunity for growth and embodying those qualities are that much more possible. So it's a really good opportunity when you're in those moments. Because as you're speaking to this, I'm really reminded of how connected generosity is with reciprocity. and they're like inextricably connected. And we have this perception that when you give,

there's a giver, there's a receiver. But really, it's one flow. It's one cycle. And when you give, you both are receiving and the person who's receiving is receiving. And anyone who witnesses that act of generosity is also receiving. Yes. It is a, it is a multiplication of that effect. The only challenge with it is I've had to learn,

and there's probably a lot of empaths who watch and listen to the show, people that are very compassionate, big hearts that want to give all the time. And I would say that I'm a very giving, generous person, at least I try to think I am. And you have to let go of the expectation of someone giving in return to you. Because that can make you feel resentment, make you feel frustration, which is a lower frequency energy that's going to make you not feel abundant. So if you give, where I used to give generously all the time,

And it almost felt like people would take and take and take, but there would be no reciprocity. Not everyone, but some people. Usually people say, how can I help you in return? You have to be willing to receive as well, because that's where the abundance comes when you're able to receive. And I think boundaries are also a key for someone who is an overgiver where they maybe are, I felt like I was wounded a lot for a long time.

And I had to learn how to create boundaries and heal those wounds so that I could give, and if I never received anything, I'd be okay. But I could also create boundaries if I felt like, oh, someone was only trying to take from me and constantly reaching out to ask to help them. But they weren't engaging in my life in any other way. They weren't being a giver of just like their spirit or the generosity or their gratitude in some way. And so if you ever feel that way, if you're an overgiver because you're people pleasing and you're wounded, learn to heal that within you so you can give from an abundant heart,

not expect anything from that person, but also learn to create boundaries if necessary if you feel like they're overtaking. I think this is a really important moment to make a distinction in those types of generosity because what we think might be generous and might be something else. It might be transactional,

it might be really just commerce. Yeah. And you can be generous in many ways, even giving somebody a compliment. That's a generous act, right? And if it's coming from a place where there's no attachment to how it's received to the self that's giving it,

then it can be pure. There's so many aspects here where it's easy to fall into the trap of having a string attached to what we're giving and it actually tainting the experience. And that's why there's so much emphasis on the mental volition and the Eastern wisdom traditions.

When you're doing any act, it's like the intention's intention. Like really, why are you doing it? Where is it coming from energetically within you? And if I give you a compliment about how I love your podcast or whatever, whatever, and I'm like expecting for you to ask me about mine or like give me a compliment in return or build a relationship for for some reason. So it benefits me. It's just not pure

generosity. It's not. And it's more like wounded energy. It's more energy that's a, I want to say taker, but it's like a false giving, right? It's like, okay, you're giving because you're hoping to receive something or return with an expectation. And that expectation is going to lead to let down because you'll never reach that expectation. And unless you're like, in a business deal that you're saying, hey, I would like to do this for you, but I want you to do this, can we do this? That's more commerce trading. Yeah, which is totally fine. But don't be, you know, a generous giver. And that could be giving also, like we're trying to do this for mutual gain. And I won't give this to you unless you're going to give me something in return.

Okay, cool. But if you're just simply, you know, walking around the street or going about your day and you're asking and you're being generous with your compliments to people, don't expect them to give it back in return. Just be a giver. Be kind because you want to spread that love to others. It also makes me think of tithing and giving to charity, you know, and there's that quote in the Bible of don't let your left hand know what your right hand is doing. It's good. It's stood the test of time, you know, because even the act of giving in that aspect and I just want to breathe some compassion into this whole process because like we're not perfect beings. You know, it sometimes gets a little bit muddy and we're doing this.

the best with the current level of awareness we have. But what is your perspective on tithing, giving as is an essential aspect of being a prosperous individual with that quality? I've asked this to a lot of wealthy individuals, those who have made hundreds of millions or billions of dollars. I'm like, what do you think is the secret to earning and making more financially and also feeling good? And probably 80 to 90% of the people that I've interviewed who talk about this is say,

the more that I give financially, the more I make that year. or the next year. And it just makes me, expands my heart as well. And they always say, kind of what you just said, you know, and I always think about

how can I give that's kind of uncomfortable. Even though I have a lot of money, like writing a million dollar check or $5 million check is still like, I'm just giving this to some charity or giving this to my church

or giving this to a cause that I care about. But 80, 90% of those individuals say I always, it always comes back to me. And I feel better by being able to do that. I definitely tried to practice that more

in the last like seven, eight years by how can I give where it's uncomfortable? And not every year it's like come back, 10 to X or whatever. But I think the impact that you're creating and the ripple effect that you're creating when you give generously, when you have financial means,

I think it's powerful. And you're also stretching your spirit and your soul's capacity to expand more and to kind of like see how far can I go and how far can I expand my inner world of giving generously and trusting that by continuing to add value in the world, by continuing to be a good person, good's going to come back to me. Do you give financially and do you expand it where you're like, oh, this is,

here's what I feel comfortable with. Let me double that up and let me just give this in there. Yeah, that's kind of hurt me, but. I do. I feel like I have room to grow. And I want to give more. also why I'm driven to grow my businesses and all the stuff because it expands my container and capacity to give to charities and organizations that I really believe in and people that I love and just like I love celebrating with money and just giving it to people unexpectedly and like people that I believe in and and I think it's important to also do it in private and like not not share necessarily online and you know I think there's a both thing and it's interesting I had a friend of mind say, you know, I like to share, I like to give half in private and half in public to persuade

my rich friends to give more. Yeah. And I like that idea. It's like, you don't have to show off. Here I am, like, with these kids every day, like giving to them. It's the place is coming from. Yeah. It's like, it's more of like, hey, calling up your rich friends or anyone to say, if there's any charities that you want to give to, like now is the time. I encourage you to do it. Not needing the validation of look at me I've given. And I've been building schools for, I don't know, 13, 14 years now all around the world through Pencil Promise and other charities. And I try to share from a giving nature.

And I bring my rich friends on these trips. I brought a friend of mine, Tim Sykes, one time, because he made a ton of money through stocks. I don't know if you know who Tim Sykes is. He's made a ton of money over his career through stocks. He had... He went to Nigeria with him to do a give-back mission. I love that.

Yeah. So this is an interesting story. Tim Sykes is every Lamborghini and, you know, Miami Mansion or whatever he had, he had all the money in the world. And we'd been friends since 2008, 2009. And I just saw him kind of emotionally go through roller coaster kind of spiritually. And through like the girl phase and the car phase and like every expensive watch and nightclubs and just like going chaos. Make money and go crazy. And I invited Tim, I'm sure he'd be opening me sharing this story.

I said Tim, like, I think you should come on this. trip with me and we'll go to Guatemala and just we're it's not going to be a fun trip in terms of like we're living in like a motel you know this is not high life we're taking vans through the jungles it's like kind of nauseating six hour drives this is not like luxury um but i want you to come with me he came and we went to our first like school location we're going to at this little village in the jungle in Guatemala and this is still one of like probably the most inspiring moments of like the last 14 years for me, is he, we get off the van,

and we're kind of nauseous, like someone threw up a couple hours prior. It's like, it's not an enjoyable trip necessarily. But we get off the van and like a hundred kids run to us. And they grab me and Tim's hands and they start screaming in Spanish and they pull us to go into this empty field

that is supposedly a soccer field, but it's just like rocks and dirt. It's not like a field. they have a ball made out of like plastic bottles that they're kicking around and like some wood posts with no net. And they're running around us, they're playing soccer, and they're circling me and Tim. And after a few moments, Tim gives me a hug.

He looks me in the eyes and he goes, this is the greatest moment of my life. He goes, thank you so much for giving me this opportunity to experience life at this level. After the weekend was done, he made a million-dollar donation right then for the charity. and he was like, and since then, he's gone on to build like 150 schools or 300 schools around the world. You went on a trip with him. He became a maniac to give.

And he's the type of guy who's promoting his giving a lot because he wants to encourage people to give as well. Not everything, but he's promoting it a lot. And he lives a rich life. Before he was financially rich. Now he's more emotionally, spiritually heart rich. And I think he's learned the two different dimensions. of like, okay, I'm going to go for all money, and I'm going to go for money and just give as much as I can away

and feel great about my life. I'm not saying everyone has to give all their money away to feel that, but for him, that's worked for him. Really, we often so underestimate the simple act of like inviting somebody on a trip like that, because you think of how full circle that moment is, and I'm not saying you're the sole inspiration, but I know probably a big part of when he went to go on and do Carmagawa and then invited me to go on that Nigeria trip with him

and Matt, and that was a very impactful trip for me. Like, we went into the rural city of Makoko and, like, real true poverty and giving back to the kids and seeing the joy that was on their face, even in very poverty. Yeah. They have nothing. They have nothing. And yet, I'm not saying everyone with nothing can be happy, but these kids had nothing. They would get one meal a day that the community would give them every day.

And they were just happy. They were happy with their one meal. They were happy. they had community, they were happy they had a plastic water bottle soccer ball. They were just happy that we were there being generous and coming just visit them. And I think, you know, you had a similar experience in Nigeria, it sounds like, where these kids were happy even though they were living in poverty. What was your biggest takeaway from that experience?

From seeing people in extreme poverty that maybe they weren't always happy, but it seemed like for those moments they had some joy. man I think I just you just grow up in the States you're just in a bubble and especially like even middle class is so affluent

compared to the rest of the world so getting to really see you know people that walk miles for water and might go full day without eating food or or you know doing whatever they can

to provide for their family and no toilets yeah it's like and I went as it's kind of like supporting with the media when I went and it was really beautiful

to connect with even just the drive driver is there and then this one lady I took a photo of, I'll throw it up on screen with her children and yeah, just seeing the heart of that all inaction. And I think it just expanded my container for the context of what's happening on planet Earth and also how resilient people are and my desire to give and really support. So it definitely shifted a lot. When was that trip?

Probably six, seven years ago. Uh-huh. Yeah. It's interesting because every time I go on one of these trips, and I try to go once a year at least on a trip like this. And, you know, you talk about living in the States. I fly back through LAX and I would drive to, like, West Hollywood or through Beverly Hills. And you just see, you went literally that morning for, like, the poorest of poor,

and then you're in one of the most expensive areas in the world driving through Beverly Hills. And you just see people complaining for, like, the dumbest things who are driving Bentley's, or whatever, they're just frustrated about life. Not everyone, but you see people who are frustrated who seemingly have everything. And you go from a place where people have nothing, but they have everything inside of them. And you're like, man, that's just such a difference.

And how can we live a richer, abundant life with the money we have, with the material possessions we have, how can we still be grateful for where we're at? And if we want to create more, cool, but not lose ourselves and going into darkness when we've got that financial abundance. I was talking with this guy at the end of my last silent retreat, and he was just worried about not getting a screen card.

He's going to go back to India. And I was asking him kind of about the process of that and how it might be a bummer. He might not be able to stay here and work. And he's like, actually, like, not really. Like, there is, while it's a lot different, you know, being in different parts of India and it's very crowded and all these different, you know, aspects of the economy,

there is more of a spiritual poverty here in the States comparatively. And so it's like there is a balance scale. And, you know, there's a lot of inner rich life in India. It's just bursting at the seams with all of it. So it's really, yeah, it's definitely expanded my container of what it means to have a rich, like a truly rich prosperous. What does a rich life mean to you then? What's your definition of a rich life?

I would say like chosen, soul tribe, community, family around me that are aligned with my values. So community is definitely a big way. one, contributing meaningfully how I uniquely had the capacity to towards a more beautiful world. So, you know, really giving, but like in the active expression of my unique skills. And that's music or that's advanced or that's whatever. Yeah, my capacity for podcasting and media and questioning and all these things. Physical vitality. So like eating whole foods from the earth, drinking clean water, exercising and just having

healthy, you know, muscular system where I can move and run and all the things. Definitely giving, like giving more directly. I think it can get quite philosophical, the more I do podcasts. I want to make it more direct. I'm giving by me, yeah, yeah. How much money would you like to give a year? If you could just write a check to go to all the places you want to give, what's a number that is a dream number for you that you would love to give one day?

I would love to at least give a couple million dollars a year. What does that mean? two, three, four million. Like one or two right now. I think I want to continue expanding it as I grow. So let's go down this thought then. If you wanted to give $2 million, when would you love to give that by?

Just hypothetically. In one year, boom, $2 million check to all the places. I would love to do that by 2030, maybe 2030, 2032, somewhere on it. Five years from now. So how much would you need to make in order to give that where you felt like you still had enough for you and everything you wanted to live with your life.

I think realistically, as scaling, probably 10% of tithing for like an annual year is probably a good goal. So like 10 million bucks in a year. 20 million bucks for 10% of, it would be a million bucks, right? Okay, so you need 20 million for 2 million, right? That would be 10%.

So look at your energy that shifting. Why is your energy shifting there? Well, I love these thought experiments because it stretches you into your potential. So 20 million would be, you know, if you're going to do $2 million, but $10 million for $1 million, right? So what would it take for you to get $10 million in the next two years? What would it take for you to get there in two years instead of five or six years?

What would it take from you internally and externally? It would take more of me, you know, just take, I think, clarification of the why, I think, first and foremost. Like when you know why you're giving, where you're giving, it drives you. and would drive me. So clarifying that, I think, doubling down on delegating and growing a team that can support me

doing what my irreplaceable kind of zone is and just continuing to scale what I'm currently doing, I think, and make space for the unknown to support me in that process. So I like that thought exercise, and I think it's really useful for anybody who's listening right now

to also think of, you know, not just because for the sake of of trying to do as much as you can in your lifetime by tomorrow. But there is that saying that like 10x is easier than 2x and like being able to stretch yourself and think in ways that are kind of quantum jumps from your typical linear way of thinking. What's inside of you do you think is holding you back emotionally or spiritually

or blocking you from creating the 10x financial wealth that you have right now? The honest answer is I don't know. because it's kind of outside of the realm of my current awareness. And I'm not saying you ever have to get there. It's not like you have to make $10, $20 million a year to live more rich. Yeah, no, I mean, I love these thought experiments. And I don't think it's worth having the money if it's going to cause you to, if you think I have to be more of me or create more,

and I'm going to spend 100 hours a week and exhaust myself, like that's not a rich life either. So it's got to be in a way that's sustainable to you, having vitality, your physical health, being able to still eat the way you want, have the community you want, the free space and time to be able to write music and do things.

So you have to be able to be more internally and sure do more externally, but also think in a different way and execute in a different way that allows you to expand without sacrificing all the richness of your life. And I think I went down a path for many years where I was like,

oh, I know how to do this, so I just need to do more of that thing until it burns me out. I didn't think. it's going to burn me out. I was like, I can handle it. But working all day and night to create more, got me more money, but made me less healthy, made me less abundant, made me less rich inside of me. And I would love for you to figure out, do I really want to make $10 million or $20 million a year to give in this way? If so, cool. If not, no worries either. And so how could I do it to where

expands my vessel spiritually, expands my heart and soul to be more abundant, thinking and generous thinking, but also I still have the life that I want within this vision of my values. That would be a rich life and be powerful. That's the quantum leap is how do I still live this vibrant life that I'm living today? And sure, maybe you're putting more hours in, but it's not like killing you to do this just so you can give more. It can't be that way, because then you're not giving to yourself. Yeah, and I also think, of course, yeah, like having giving to yourself and making sure, you know, because I feel I've lived a very abundant prosperous life right now. And there's levels, of course, to this. But in terms of my own needs, like, I don't,

I don't need a nicer car, really. You know, I don't need a bigger house, even though I will, you know, probably in the next few years. But like, I don't need it. What I am driven by is even not just donating that money strictly to another organization, but also investing it into spiritual infrastructure in ways that I feel like really give towards the evolution of consciousness on earth, you know? And so giving in ways that look like real transformation in the lives of people and figuring out how to support other people

that are doing that and then my own way of doing that as well. And I would also, you know, even just give another thought experiment for you, maybe it's not you having to give that million or two million dollars for you to feel like, oh, I've accomplished this goal. But maybe it's with all my talents, with all my community, I'm going to put together a million dollars this year and get everyone to support in this giving nature to inspire it,

and therefore collectively we give a million dollars. And I put in 100,000 or whatever it is, you know, or 300,000. It's figuring out, it's like what I do at 10. I brought him there. I didn't think he was going to donate, but he gave a million dollars. So it was a part of a contribution of me influencing the giving. It wasn't my money, but it was my enrollment skills. It was my curation of people, kind of like what Tim did with you,

just share the media. Yeah. So thinking of that as well. Yeah. It is important to, I guess, reflect on how money is all intertwined with this. And yet I also really, I see how that can scale the impact of what I'm really here. And I know what you're really here to do and be about, which is the actual healing and supporting of humans out there. And that to me is like what I truly wish to scale. And so money in that aspect as it doesn't, you know, doesn't have a negative or positive charge. inherently is a tool as a resource to be able to scale

transformation and healing. Yeah. So, yeah, that's all great. Something to think about there, yeah. But we want, you know, we want to feel whole, me and you, we want to feel healed, whole, full of life, vibrant, on purpose, on mission, connected to people in our lives, loved, all these different things. And I think that's what we want everyone else to feel as well.

That's why I love a lot of what you're doing here is that you're trying to share valuable insights and information to serve people towards growth, healing, and transformation. And that's what I'm on as well. And it's because I felt broken and not whole for a lot of my life. Internally, spiritually, sexually, financially, I felt broken in all these areas. And then I was seeking tools to create wholeness within me. And it's been a journey. And that's why I constantly try to...

influence people around me by asking these questions the same way you do. So we're on the same path. Yeah. Yeah, I know. And that contrast of experience, when you have the history of being, feeling broken and, you know, all those things that, I feel like it just gives you so much empathy for building on the path to really support people in a way that can truly be supported because you know what supported you.

Yes. And so, yeah, I've for sure had many moments of that in my life. And I know you've had many moments in yours. When was the moment you felt the most rich? Right now. Yeah. Yeah. Just in my life right now.

I've had moments. Like, if we're talking about kind of from like a period of life, I feel the most rich right now. If we're talking about like specific moments, I would say trips like that in Nigeria, or trips with my men's group to like a new location deep in nature where we're really connecting, connected to the elements and diving deep together. I would say those, you know, and then also like the simple joys of like having Christmas with my family. Like, you know, I feel like I can find those really meaningful moments more and more these days. Wow, that's beautiful.

Yeah. So the rich life for you is with other people that you care about. Yeah, I mean, I definitely say I thrive alone. I love to spend a lot of time alone. But you just said the richest moments are with people. They are. Yeah. And so I can be a, I can be a home body to a fault sometimes.

Yeah, yeah. What would you say for you is the most richest? I mean, just thinking about this last month, well, getting married is on my heart because it just happened a month ago. Yeah, congrats by the way. Thank you. And the experience, and I never thought I was going to get married growing up because my parents always fought and they were always kind of arguing and slamming doors or silent treatment.

They never loved each other. Maybe they did a little bit, but they never showed it. So it always felt unsafe at home. That's why I left home at 13 to go to a private boarding school. My parents did not want me to leave home. I begged them for a whole summer to send me away because I didn't feel emotionally safe. My nervous system was out of whack.

It was broken. And they did the best they could with the tools they had, and I loved them, but I didn't feel safe at home. My brother also just got out of prison. He went to prison for selling drugs to an undercover cop. Four and a half years he was in jail. And it was just kind of a dark time in my hometown

during that time, and the family life was stressful. So I didn't feel rich. I didn't feel whole. I didn't feel complete. I felt very insecure. The journey of healing when I turned 30 and starting transformation work, that's when I felt the most rich. And actually, when I see others go through transformational workshops or meditation workshops

that I've been to and I recommend them to them, I'm like, hey, I think this could be really helpful. And then they come out on the other side and they text me glowing about what they learned about the things that were holding them back, their traumas, their blocks, how they feel more free, that for me is rich. It's like me going through, knowing what darkness felt like inside of me, finding the journey towards healing, feeling more whole, and then empowering others to go through experiences that are supported for them and seeing them transform is like the greatest gift that I can receive. And it's, that's rich for me. It's like seeing the impact on others. And I'm sure you have that similar feeling. And I think that's why your Nigeria trip of like you could see the impact firsthand of the impact you have on these communities and these kids.

It's like, wow, you're able to give something where someone is transformed in a moment, in a weekend, in a month. That's richness for me. And it's addictive. Giving can be extremely addictive if you can help people overcome challenge. Because I don't want anyone to suffer. I suffer for a long time internally. and I don't want anyone to have that feeling. But I also know once you learn the tools

and you can get on the other side of it, it's like, man, you just feel like, wow, there's a whole new world that I can live with peace and not sadness. And so that's when I feel the most rich. I feel very rich right now being married because I never thought I would be married. I never felt safe with the women I was with in the past

to actually go that far. And I feel extremely emotionally safe in this relationship. in the marriage. And I just never felt that. And so I never thought I could be intimate with a woman and feel safe and feel accepted to be me

and be seen to be who I am and all the crap that I've experienced and been through and thought and all these different things. And I feel extremely, I feel at home, in my home for the first time. And I feel at home within myself.

And most people don't have that feeling. So that's a very rich life for me right now. so happy for you. Thanks, man. It's beautiful to, I guess, witness the fruits of doing the work for a long period of time and the sincere devotion towards healing those parts of yourself. And it's just a really exciting new chapter. I'm excited to see. I'm excited, man. Yeah. I felt like it was the right timing. You know, I'm turning 42 this weekend. I never celebrate my birthday, really, because my dad never celebrated my birthday when we were growing up because he didn't want, He didn't believe in time, and he didn't want age to be a limiter for us.

So he had never celebrated. But I was always like, ah, it'd be nice to still give me a cake or presents or something, you know, when everyone else is getting it. But I really appreciate that now at this age because I don't put emphasis on my age, even though I just said it. But I'm not like, oh, it's 42. Like, it's 43. I'm not thinking about that.

I feel like I'm almost aging reverse. Yeah. Very young in spirit. Yeah. And I think that's having that childlike curiosity just makes me feel. rich as well. Yeah. I think getting to that point where you really do feel youthful and spirit and you get life by what you're doing and you're rewarded abundantly, financially and all these things is discovering those qualities within you. And part of the revealing of that is investing in

yourself, truly. And for getting to the point to where you're at now, what have been the most important ways you've invested in yourself over the years that have cultivated? to this point. I've invested in great coaches and mentors, therapists. I think having the right mentors in your life are essential and choosing the people in your life who have the experiences, the lessons, and are living in accordance and in alignment with the values you want to live with. Having those kind of teachers in your life is really important. So I have physical coaches for my body that I trust with my physical health, nutritional coaches, therapist coach, business coaches.

I try to find kind of the people that I look up to. I have a relationship coaches. Me and Martha have people we lean on who have been married 30, 40, 50 years. Then I'm like, okay, I'm trying to prevent things from happening poorly. And I'm trying to do things now that my future self will appreciate. I say, thank you for investing that time. So I try to have that as a baseline. In terms of actual investments,

my sanctuary of my home, Martha and I's home, is like a dream for me. And I wanted to imagine we bought this home two years ago, and I'd always lived in one or two-bedroom apartments until I was 40. So I was like, I never need a home. I'm fine, like a small place. And I'm fine renting, all these different things. but I finally felt safe in a relationship where I was like, okay, I'm happy to get a home now.

And when I was looking at homes, I was really thinking about myself at 50. And I'm always having these experience about what do I want in the future? And am I investing or am I buying something or investing in something that feels comfortable right now? But my future self is going to say, you should have just done it a little bit more to have exactly what you wanted. And so I bought a home with Martha where I was like, I want everything that I'm going to love in 10 years. If I want to stay there, I'm still going to love it. Not like some starter home that I move in two or three years,

that I have to do this all over again and keep moving. I want to invest in a place that feels home where if we have kids, we can raise these kids there. We don't have to move to have more space. And so the space we got is way bigger than what we need, but it has everything we need for the next 10 years. And that investment stretched me financially. it was like, oh, I'm down to zero in the bank.

And it was really scary. But I had a conversation with my future self. And my future self said, this is going to be a tight time for six months. It's going to feel like a stretch. But you're going to look back and you're going to think about paying these payments and it's going to be nothing for you

because we're going to be so rich and abundant beyond your wildest dreams. So I had a conversation with my future self and he gave me that advice. I love that. It's very similar story. You do? Yeah.

Because you used to live in like a small, smaller home and now you've got a bigger home and you're in like the canyon and yeah there's an there's an art uh biting off more than you can chew and figuring out how to swallow it exactly and you really grow to the size of the pot you're in and so like when i moved in here it was sway stretching me beyond my financial capacity at the time and i made that decision to like okay the next 12 months are going to be hard but i want to see the version of me that becomes that that that is a match to that on the other side of it so what did you create in the last year a lot of abundance that like now it's easy now it's the new normal you know do you see you know do you

think if you stayed in that old place in Venice that you'd be creating the financial wealth you have now if you stayed in that container. The thing is I don't think like there a certain amount of space equates to a certain amount of possibility. So I think you can do a lot with a little. Of course. But the more space you have to grow in, like the studio is now twice as big. We have more cameras. We have room for building out a music studio section and a photo shoot area. Stretching lab. Yeah, we were stretching for 15. minutes before it. And so there's been more possibility

of the space is increased. And it's, like you said, you create your environment, and then your environment informs who you are, and it really affects you. And so you think about all the signals you're getting from imagine having a dirty place that's not organized, that is stuff bought that's like, you know,

really, like, poorly made things. I decided when I was getting this place to, like, any purchase I'm going to make, whether it's a piece of furniture, a piece of equipment or technology. Going to find the absolute best thing I can purchase. I'm going to have it for the rest of my life. It's going to be

a reflection of abundant and it's going to be quality. And I think that feedback loop, it creates almost like what you expect more of and what you become a match to, which is really valuable. That's beautiful, man. Yeah. It's, you know, I was thinking of myself, what I want to create for the next

10 years. I wanted to create an environment of fun, a family, and where friends can come. and connect and hang. And I couldn't do that in a two-bedroom apartment. I could only have so many people over. It was very crammed. You could do a limited amount.

But now we have this space where it's like, we have rooms where kids could be in. We have, you know, rooms where our parents can come and stay and it's not going to feel like too crammed. We have a podcast studio. I was like, I really want a pickleball court with a basketball court, but there's not enough space in Studio City. So I found the one lot that had enough.

space that already had a pickupball court and a basketball court. And I was like, this is way out of my budget. But I was like, my future self just said, just imagine the next 10 years of all your friends coming over, family coming over, and being out of play in the backyard safely and abundantly. And a couple nights ago, I had three buddies over and we have lights. We were playing pickleball for three and a half hours at night in a private sanctuary. We didn't have to go rent some courts out at some park. It's like everyone was in my home. And Martha was in the living room. She was like, I could hear you guys laughing for hours.

Like, that's a rich life for me. It's like everyone's able to come over and have fun together. That is where my money should go, having fun. Yeah, it's so valuable and rewarding when you get to that place and invest into your environment. I probably even more so than it would have been wise to at different points really invest into the environment that I live in my home. How old are you now? I'm 28. Yeah, I mean, I wasn't doing any of this until like five years ago, you know, so it's like, I think you're expanding in your late 20s.

It's amazing. Most people would never do this at 28. Most people can't even hold a job at 28, you know, without being a breakdown constantly, let alone build their business and expand from a conscious place. I think I'm just really grateful to have, like, had great teachers and been exposed to important, you know, valuable information earlier on. And so I kind of started this journey, like, closer to 15, 16 years old. but when I moved out of my house at 18 and I went again was living splitting at $800 crappy apartment with four other three other dorm roommates you make up for I guess what your environment is feeding you in terms of imagination and inspiration and that like it's it's cool

to like have a vision that is completely imaginative in your mind and then to bring it forth into the physical is the creative act of what it means to be human. Yes. You know, and it's so exciting to be on that journey. It's like one big, it's a big video game, you know? And I want to focus a little bit more on that aspect

of bringing kind of the immaterial visions that we have in life into the physical because you've done it very well. Yeah. And there's a lot of insights around it. So when it comes to investing in yourself, we talked about generosity earlier. I'm just curious, what are the most prominent value you've given to others

that was non-monetary. Because so much of this path is like, who you know, building relationships and giving to people. And I'm just curious, like, how you've given to people. Where I didn't get money in return to me? Yeah, maybe, like, where you weren't expecting any money in return, but you're providing value still. You know, the thing that's coming to me is

the idea of planting seeds that you'll never see the trees of, like the shade of later, that'll kind of parable or whatever. And I did that as a kid one time. My dad took me to this. We used to go to this family camp, YMCA camp in Ohio. And every like Memorial Day weekend, we'd go for three days as a family. And one summer, he took me and my siblings to this campgrounds that we used to go to.

And they have games and activities in a lake. And it's like fun, usually, right? But he took us there and he said, okay, we're just going to go for a whole day and you're literally going to plant these little, these little trees because there was a big kind of field and they were looking for volunteers to come help. My dad was always into giving back to communities and giving back to people in our community in any way he could. So he always wanted to teach us this lesson and he would have us involved in cleaning up trash or whatever it might be. And he brought us one day and he was so hot out and there was a truckload of these like seedlings,

these little like pine trees. And he gave us a shovel and he just said, you've got to plant these until they're done. And there was thousands of them. And there was a few other kids there too from other families, but it was mostly just us planting for like eight to ten hours. And as an eight or nine-year-old, you're like, I just want to play.

This is exhausting. It's hot out. It was not enjoyable. Three years ago, I went back because my dad passed away. And I went back to this campground because it was a place that he loved. And I went back and these trees were 30, 40 feet high. And it was like you enter the campground seeing the forest that we built. I get chills thinking about it because it's like my father instilled in giving and being of service,

even though when we may not benefit from it. But now there's a whole ecosystem there and the people and the kids and the parents and the families that go there can be in this kind of shaded environment and be in nature more. And that'll be there for hundreds of years. me, you know, being a part of charities where we're building schools for kids around the world, maybe sometimes I get to go and see the school, but a lot of times I never know what's going to happen with those kids later in life, where they're going to go, how they're going to impact their families, all these different things.

So it's the things I don't get to see that also make me wonder like, I wonder whatever happened to this thing. But just knowing good things are happening, that's a beautiful feeling, even though in the moment when you give or when you're being in service with your time or your effort and you're like, why am I doing this? It's just knowing that someone else has done this for you. Like you got to experience this nature, this home that someone built or some campground you go to or a park that someone invested in and it could be one of your most favorite spots or you get

to have memories. And it's like someone built this whole world before us that we get to experience. So I feel like that's something that's just I live with as well. but I think the simplest acts of calling a friend or texting someone and just saying, hey, I see what you're doing, you're doing amazing. That simple act where I'm not expecting money in return, but someone just saying, man, you've really made my day. I really appreciate you for that.

And creating that connection, that bond is just such an abundant feeling. And there's no money there. And it could be like a compliment, but I really call it an acknowledgement. And it's something I do on my show as well. It's like I acknowledge my guest at the end of every show. And most people want to feel seen, heard, and acknowledge, but it's the thing we never get the most. And so I try to instill that acknowledgement as much as I can.

And it can be just a small thing. Hey, I really acknowledge you for how you live an intentional life and how you've invested in this sanctuary for you. And being an example, when you show your content online to show people it's possible to do the same for them as well. And being acknowledging people in their gifts, their talents is an incredible abundant thing. There is that saying that people don't remember what you do or what you say,

but how you make them feel. And it's so true. Like you think back to, I'm sure you've had so many meaningful moments when people come up to you sharing about how the show has been impactful to them and how it saved their life or impacted or met their partner or like whatever it might be. And those moments you feel the impact of what you're doing and it really resonates and is so helpful to continue helping you drive what you're going to do.

And we can afford that to other people in so many different ways. Another example, I mean, here's a great, I guess, example. I've done this event every year called the Summit of Greatness, and I lose money every year. So there's like a tactical example. I lose money every year. And every year I'm like, this is so much time, so much energy, why am I doing this? And we think about canceling it every year because it doesn't make money.

Our team, I'm investing in my team to put this thing together. It's not our best at because we do it once a year. And the weekend comes around and people are like on fire. They love it. They're like, this is amazing. People have met each other and gotten married and had babies from this event. Like people start business. All these things that you're talking about.

Like, it's not always going to be this monetary return for you by how you invest in people and how you give to others or your community. But the impact you can make is expansive. And I keep doing it because I'm like, maybe one day we'll make money. You know, who knows? But it's like the community flourishes. And I think that's still a good thing to do. For people that want to, again, bridge the vision of what they have,

they imagine this on their vision board or whatever it might be into the physical reality. I learned this framework many years ago about the law of compensation, which says that you'll be compensated in direct proportion to the need for what you do, your ability to do it, and the difficulty in replacing you. And a part of building value in the world is building ancillary skill sets that really supports you. And that's why I've always thought it's really important. Even if you're not living in what you feel like is your Dharma or your North Node, which again, we're always, even not being on our path as being on our path. You know, like working in an industry that you want to one day be a pioneer in, I think is really valuable.

Like being a videographer, which helps you, you know, in production, if you want to make movies or become a producer, start a podcast where they're very visual now. Like there's so many things that I think really help if you focus on those ancillary skill sets. And so when you- That's what you did before you came here. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And I think it's also what you did.

Like, what's what we all do in the journey, like you, in your efforts through LinkedIn and networking and building value really informed and supported you. Yeah. It wasn't what my dream was like, I want to do this forever. But it was like, I want to do this forever. but it was like the starting steps of developing skills. Yeah. So how important do you feel like are cultivating skills?

I mean, I think it's everything. And I think it's the best skills you can cultivate are the things you're most afraid of. And what I mean around that is I think you gain a superpower when you overcome a fear and you develop a skill around it. One of my biggest fears was public speaking. And it terrified me. I couldn't get up in front of the class and speak aloud. I couldn't read aloud in front of the class without stuttering and feeling insignificant. And after I was done playing arena football and I was living on my sister's couch,

I had all the fears and all the doubts in the world and no clue which direction to go. I knew I didn't want to be in this couch and have no money. So I knew I wanted to be on my own and making money, but I didn't know how I was going to get there. And I had so many fears that were holding me back. So these fears were limiting me from creating me from creating. the physical manifestations in the real world. And the three things that I did early on was, well, there was three fears that I started to overcome.

The first thing I did was where I wrote down a list of all the things that were holding me back. After about six months and feeling depressed and anxious, I was like, okay, what are my main fears? Public speaking was one. And it was really the fear of being laughed at and humiliated by not looking smart or looking good. And so the first thing I did is I met someone who was a public speaking professional.

They made money full time being a public speaker. And I convinced him to give me some coaching. And he's like, if you want to overcome this fear, if you want to impact anyone and create anything in life, you need to be able to communicate, whether it's in a board room, a conference room, at a job, or on stage. So you don't have to be a professional speaker, but you need to learn the skills and the tools of professional speaking to communicate. anywhere. And the best thing you should do is go to Toastmasters. It's a, it's a, it's a organization that allows you to practice public speaking in a confined space with feedback. And I joined a club and I was terrified. I found a group. I started doing it every single week for a year. And over that year, not only did I overcome my fear of public speaking, I developed a skill which allowed me to generate

income around public speaking in certain different ways, whether it be podcasting and speaking on stage, workshops. And that skill of overcoming the fear gave me incredible courage and confidence to say, okay, I can do this for the next thing. The next thing was writing a book. I was developing skills on LinkedIn at the time by networking with people. But I was like, who's going to listen to me? I almost flunked out of English in high school. So I found another mentor who had written books and convinced him to coach me on writing a book. And that was my first book. And through that process, It wasn't perfect and I wasn't amazing as a writer, but completing that work gave me courage and confidence

and gave me another skill set that was once a fear that seemed impossible. That allowed me to manifest now my fifth book over the last 10 years where it's allowed to monetize something in the physical world. The third one that I was terrified of, believe it or not, was salsa dancing because I would watch salsa dancing. I used to live above a jazz club and once a week they would have salsa dancing downstairs.

And I would go down there and just watch for months and I was terrified. I was like, this thing terrifies me more than anything. Like dancing alone I can't do. Salsa dancing is a whole other level of dance. It's like a different language, a different music, a different rhythm, a different culture. I do not belong.

And I was just like, I am terrified of this and therefore I need to go all in on it. And that was one of the skills that I haven't monetized necessarily, but it's given me so much courage and confidence and belief in myself that I can go anywhere in the world and speak zero the language where I'm at.

And no, zero person there. I can go into any social nightclub where there's salsa dancing and I can ask the best person to dance and have an incredible night. And I've met so many people just having these experiences being able to salsa dance anywhere in the world over the last 20 years. And I wouldn't have been able to have that richness of life without overcoming that fear and developing that skill. So there's just a few things that I did early on, which was creating that list of fears, overcoming it by developing the skills and creating way more confidence in my abilities to go monetize in the future.

I'm sure that courageousness and fearlessness translates to your career and work and taking risks for your purpose and whatnot. I know for sure for me and I would love for you to share what you did in your new book

Make Money Easy about the mastermind habit and the power and importance of relationships and being around people that you're inspired by I think earlier on, especially in my journey, none of us were wealthy or rich, but we all had the desire to become

and become rich and prosperous individual. And being able to kind of have that iron sharpens irons, irons, I think is really important. And then you can afford mentors and coaches or whatever. And of course, they don't have to be alive. You don't have to pay for them. There's so many resources online now through podcasting and books and all the things.

But what is the mastermind habit and the importance of it? You spoke about it already in terms of like the things that have helped you get here at 28 we're having these kind of mentors early on when you're 15, 16, kind of getting starting your transformational journey. You talked about the richness of like your men's group and going out in nature and developing those bonds

and transforming in these men's groups and also just having a high vibrational tribe, I think you said, within kind of the community of transformation and consciousness. You've been developing a mastermind moments for the last 10 plus years or the things you're inspired to become more of. And the mastermind habit is really developing community

or finding the communities and the mentors to give you the tools or the industry knowledge to help accelerate your growth. So if you got into a mastermind with people that were making $20 million a year, maybe in transformation, and you around them once a month or once a quarter for a weekend at a time,

I guarantee you would accelerate your financial success. to be able to make a big impact of transformation and make money around it while being able to scale effortlessly or with more ease. And it's about being around the right people who have already done it. So for me, just a quick story, the first mastermind I went to, I was working hard building my kind of online marketing business around LinkedIn. And for the first kind of year and a half, I think I did like $250,000 in sales total, like really working hard for a year and a half,

creating content, selling courses, doing webinars, kind of doing the online marketing thing. I went to my first mastermind. There's probably 25 people in the group. They were all doing seven plus figures. All I did throughout this entire weekend was see how I could help these individuals. And there was about five or six guys

who I was kind of helping them on LinkedIn live in the moment, showing them how I could help them grow their business through their LinkedIn profile. not asking for anything in return. The week later, five of those six guys said, hey, I've got a community of people. Can you teach what you taught me just for them for free and then offer a program you have afterwards?

I said, sure. So I did five webinars and 30 days after that. And I did a half a million dollars in sales in those five webinars. And that was from one mastermind weekend. And I was just like, it blew my mind to the possibilities. I'm not saying by being in a mastermind, you're automatically going to make more money or more is going to come to you.

But it's because I came with a generous heart and was like, how can I help you, help you, help you? That was all I was trying to do. And certain people were wanting to help me in return. And that created the financial prosperity in that moment. And I've been a part of, I've created mastermind since then for the last 15 years, and it has just accelerated my problem solving,

help me get out of pain, find solutions. Us being here right now as a mastermind. Even before this conversation, I was like, oh, what are you doing with these cameras? Oh, you got this AI thing to solve this problem that's going to save me hours of editing time just from one conversation we had that's going to help accelerate the growth of my processes.

That is a mastermind right here, me and you having a conversation. It doesn't have to be a formal thing, but being around people that are doing what you want to do, they might have wisdom, tools, knowledge, lessons that can empower you to accelerate your growth. And that's abundance. It doesn't have to be money. It can just feel rich by saving you time and helping you get out of pain. You know, I think that in so many ways is one of the biggest supporting factors in us feeling supported and our meaningful mission in life. And when I say

meaningful mission and when you use that verbiage, it's really, it feels like the difference between forcing your way through the world and having money and abundance and prosperity be magnetized to you because of your alignment with what you're here uniquely to do and have the capacity to do. I think we can do many things and support in many ways, but we are unique individuals

with the unique skill sets and knowledge and experience and the more that we're, I guess, leveraging that and living in alignment with that, it feels like we can make money by mistake often. You know, it just kind of, it comes to us. And so how important is, is discovering your meaningful mission on the pursuit of that? I think it's key.

And it's also, it's interesting because I've learned how to say no to a lot of money in the last five to seven years. And I think this may be a counterintuitive approach to people, but, you know, I don't drink, I don't smoke. I've never been drunk on my life. I don't do drugs, none of that stuff. And I think when we're in this space of transformation, you're almost out of alignment if you're doing certain things. You're preaching one thing, but you're not doing that thing. And never am I, like, preaching, I have all the answers or something, but I'm trying to live in alignment with the values that I'm talking about

or the people that I'm talking about and learning from. And so I've turned down so much money around alcohol brands or just like, I don't know, freaking just weird, fringy, like CBD-type drugs or whatever that I'm just like, okay, I'm not against it, but I just don't know if it's right for me right now. It's just not in the alignment, right? And so what do I want to be selling or promoting or encouraging and making sure that the brands are in alignment with me or the speaking gigs? Like some people I'm like, you want to pay me $250,000 to speak in this place? I don't really just vibe with your energy.

And I think it's okay to say no to money if it's not in alignment with your meaningful mission. You know, when you're starting out and you're broke, you might have to save money to everywhere. You know, I was driving a truck for three months and I didn't want to be driving a truck to make money. I was like, this is where I'm at right now to get me to the next stage. And it's figuring out, okay, how can I be as meaningful as possible with my mission and be an alignment around receiving the money that's attached to that mission as well? You and I could start a freaking clothing line tomorrow. You could create camera bags and say, I love cameras and I love gear and I love videos.

So let me make a bag. We can make a toothbrush company because we'd like to have clean teeth. but it's not our mission to make, it's not a meaningful mission for us. Just because you can make money on something doesn't mean you should make money on something. And it's hard at times to say no to money, but you want to make sure the right money is coming to you.

It feels like it can actually be a test. In many ways, your yes doesn't have value until you use your leverage or no. 100%. And I'm not saying you should block abundance coming to you and say no to money. Yeah. And there's some gray areas in life.

Right. But there is so much value in the courage of saying no to even at times money that would be very useful to you. And you could make, you know, you could support your team and do things with it. But the place it's coming from isn't in full alignment. And when you say no to that, I feel like it opens up more of what's a full yes. It does. And I also think it's figuring out your time. You know, I'm on a book tour right now.

I'm launching a book. And I'm also like, I'm saying no to so many opportunities that could help me sell. That could help me get my message out to more people. But if I'm saying yes to all this time with everyone, then I have no time for my health right now. And that's not rich to me. So it's like learning to say no so that I can still feel rich and abundant within me

and feel good about all the decisions I make is key. So important. So important and really helps us refine our North Star. I think so. Have you said no to money in the last few years? That could have been great money. So much. Someone wanted you to build out a studio.

They're like, oh, they're going to pay me all this, money to build us out, but you were like, I don't need to do that anymore. Totally, yeah. I did that for a season and it worked, but now I'd rather just do it for free for people that, you know, I really believe in and want to support now that it's not in need. Yes. But, yeah, it's such an interesting trap and, like, having the lack of boundaries for that,

just, it's not a good recipe for a success. That's not, man. Yeah. And when you live in scarcity, you say, yes. to everything. I used to do that. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And now I've, for sure, I've turned on hundreds of thousands of dollars from brands and from people and from opportunities that I just, I don't see myself being a part of. And I think there's freedom in that when you're not a slave to just making more money, just to make more money, it's like, no, your time is so

valuable. Well, you're putting value on yourself in other ways. As opposed to saying, I'll just give it freely to wherever's going to pay the most money. You're saying, no, I value this within me, and that appreciates in value. I want to expand on this. So like the biggest money blocks, the big one is what we're talking about right now. We often don't put value on our worth. And, you know, as you start to develop these skill sets, it's important for you to like charge your price. Even if you're in a spiritual space, some people put that in a taboo and think that you shouldn't be able to make a living and that you should be in poverty or something, you know? there's all these stories we have around money.

And so I'm just curious what you think are the most disempowering ones and the importance of knowing your value and charging it. I think one of the biggest blocks about the biggest blocks of abundance is people's money wounds. And this could be just spiritual, psychological wounds as well. But you mentioned it earlier. Something around like our beliefs influence our behaviors, how we think and feel influences the way we act and react to certain things. in life. And a lot of our beliefs are just shaped by our story around what we heard, saw,

or learned going up, and the wounds that are still within us. For me, I had very many money wounds. I had times where my parents were fighting and argue around money, and it made me feel unsafe from my nervous system. My brother went to prison, and they had to use all their money on legal fees, and it was just like this sad, dark time. I used to steal money. People would steal from me, and just the shame associated with those things as a kid. That became my makeup, my belief system around money, where I had scarcity, I had anxiety, I didn't feel safe with it, but I wanted it.

I felt insecure like I needed more. The more I had, it still didn't feel good. That was my belief system, and my beliefs dictated and influenced the way I acted and behaved. And I think until we can really reflect on our money wounds, and understand what our current money story is, we're just going to continue to react and respond because that's how our nervous system is.

So we have to first take an inventory of our money wounds to understand our money story. Or just this doesn't have to be associated in money. It could be love, our love story, our health story, whatever it might be, but our story. And then we have to see what is our money personality style if we're talking about money? How do I think and feel when I see,

money. When I receive money, when I spend money. So let me ask you a question. There's an exercise for everyone watching as well. And I love people to share in the comments what their response would be. Imagine money as a person and money walks through the door right now and stands right in front of us three. What is your first thought, feeling, and response to money being in this room? Let's hang out. Let's spend time together. Invite your friends over. And let's build something. That's cool. If money said, I'm going to give you a million dollars right now.

How would it make you feel? Feel like a full, yeah. Okay. If money said, here's a penny. How would you feel? I would say thank you. If money said all your money in your bank account, I'm taking it from you. How do you feel?

I'd ask why are you doing that? that would not feel great. If money said, you know, the more you're going to make this year, you're going to have to spend millions in taxes to the government, to California, to all these things that maybe you don't agree with, how does it make you feel? Probably a little bit less stoked. I would say, don't love having to do that. But also, that is a reflection of making a lot more money, too.

So I would say, ultimately, it's worth it. If you give someone a gift of thousands of dollars of value gift, whether it be cash or a physical material thing. And they don't say thank you and they're not appreciative and they're not grateful. They're expecting someone close to you, someone you don't know

anyone in between. How would they make you feel? Not great. Okay. If someone gave you a gift that was a friend, but they expected you to react in a different way around that money.

How would they make you feel? Not great. Okay. That's interesting. So this is just an experiment to notice. And I want everyone to respond in the comments, if money walked into your room right now while you're watching this,

how would it make you feel? I'll give an example of someone that I talked to that I know who's close to me. It was about your age, 27, 28. And I said, you're at a restaurant and money walks in. What do you do? What's your first reaction? And they said, I would run to the bar and hide. And then I would start gossiping about money behind its back.

Then if money came up to me, I would act like I was this friend. and then I would use and abuse money to get what I needed in life, and then I would ghost money if it ever reached out to me. And I just said, wow, that's an honest response. And imagine if that was a friend in your life, how do you think that friend would feel? If it was a person. Yeah, externalizing it into a person really helps.

If it was a person. It is a relationship. It's your relationship with money is one of the most powerful relationships you have. And if it is an unhealthy relationship, you're going to have stress and chaos at different seasons of life, different moments of life. Anytime you're thinking about money, handling money, receiving money, spending money, anything, paying taxes, all these interactions are going to have an emotional charge tied to that relationship,

based on your belief system, based on your story, and the wounds we have. And if we're unable to first look at our story and then see how our current personality style is with money today, then it's hard to start mending those things and having a healthier relationship with. You sound like you have a very healthy relationship with money. Sure, there's certain things that I don't think anyone would like if someone stole all their money or this and this. And you don't want to get walked on by people

and you want to have healthy boundaries and all these things. But there was nothing like wrong with what you said necessarily or it seemed unhealthy, right? It seems like you have a very healthy relationship with money. That you're like welcoming into your life. Like, hey, thanks for being here. You're grateful that it is around. You're also saying, let's build something together.

Let's invest in something together and add value in the world. If it gave you a bunch of money, you'd be thankful and appreciative. And therefore, money would probably want to keep giving you more because you're grateful. You have this generous appreciation. And the more you appreciate it, it appreciates in value. And if someone took it from you, you'd probably be like, why are you taking this? Like, why are you taking this from me without a reason, right? You're questioning why you spend it on certain taxes, and that's a whole other conversation.

but overall your relationship seems pretty conscious and pretty healthy. So I love everyone watching or listening to leave a comment on your channel of what your relationship is if money walked in the door. Just as an experiment to see, do I have a healthy relationship with this? Is it supporting and serving me in my life right now? Does my nervous system feel anxious when I have money conversations with friends or family? Can I talk about money in a comfortable way or do I feel scarce when I talk about it? Do I hoard my money and save it? And I never spend it on anything.

Or do I have no clue where my money is? Because I avoid it and I don't want to look at it in the bank account. And I just have credit cards all over the place. It's just notice where I'm at. And I think people's the lack of attention on it. It doesn't mean obsession, but lack of awareness and attention is a block for them. Someone's lack of awareness around their money story and their money wounds is a block for them because they're going to keep repeating patterns based on their past story.

So until you can start to heal and take yourself to money therapy in a sense and heal those financial money story wounds that are in your nervous system and create integrating patterns that feel more safe having conversations around money, safe around giving money, spending money on bills, spending it on friends, receiving money from friends, receiving money, you're going to feel blocked. you're going to feel emotionally scarce, avoidant, or anxious. And we want to have a secure relationship style with money, just like we would with a partner, an intimate partner. And it's interesting because people tend to have a similar anxious,

avoidant or secure relationship style with a person as they would with money. So just notice, have you had chaotic relationships in the past? Maybe you don't have the healthiest, most calm, peaceful relationship with money. Just notice. Man, I feel like so many of us, to degrees we're unaware of, have a relationship with money that is very avoided, very anxious, like that attachment style is so real. And we treat it sort of as this like ugly stepchild

that we don't want to have to focus, but we need. Yeah. And also, I mean, you probably know this more than me, but being in this spiritual world of content and communities, you mentioned it earlier, it's like people don't really talk about money in the spiritual world as much. Taboo, they don't charge for what they want, or maybe they're like extreme charging, and then people look down at them, who knows what the things are. But the challenge is people don't talk about it, period.

Or they feel afraid to talk about it, or they feel self-conscious talking about it, or they feel insecure or shameful if they have it, whatever might be. And I think the ability to express about it in a comfortable way makes you feel, feel more comfortable with money. And then you can receive and give it more freely. And the more clinched we are around anything, you can't receive anything if you're holding onto it so tightly. So we have to be willing to receive it and say,

thank you, where do you want to go? This is something I learned from Ken Honda. He wrote a book called Happy Money. And he said, every time money comes to him, whether it's a penny or a million dollars, he says, thank you, money, where would you like to go? Would you like to go in my bank account? Would you like to go into investments?

Would you like me to give you to someone right now? Would you like me to invest in yoga class, whatever it is? Like, where do you want to go? He's giving it a direction. And he's just noticing it and saying thank you and appreciating it for being here. That's what you said. First, money walks in you said, thanks for being here. I'm stoked.

Let's do something together. That attitude allows you to not be scared of it. Anytime you're scared of something, that's blocking you from creating more of it. The belief of also, oh, I'm spiritual. I can live on nothing. only people that make a lot of money are bad or doing something wrong or hurting people. That belief is also blocking you because you don't want to become a bad person if people with money do bad, shady things.

So you have to just learn about your wounds, your money story, and start changing these beliefs. And that's what I did a little bit with you. Not that you had an unhealthy relationship with it, but I was like, what would it look like with $10, $20 million in the bank? You could give more in certain ways. How empowering could that feel? And it's getting back to the emotions and the feelings around how to use money as a tool to be of service towards your meaningful mission, not only to just serve you and having more things. So important, man.

Thank you for sharing that reminder. And for anybody that's listening and has resistance to when the money conversation comes up repeatedly, it's important to ask yourself why, you know, if becoming a prosperous individual is, yes, a mental, physical, relational, but also financial, journey. Like there's money is an aspect in the modern world in a capitalistic society that we can't just ignore. It's a tool. And I think we do have so much charge around it in our story of it. And we don't really see it as a resource and as a tool and something that just amplifies more of who you are. But we see it as this sort of thing that is causing so many issues in the world. And, you know, it is a complicated subject. But if you really believe you're doing important work here, then more money is just a means for amplifying important work in the world.

Exactly. Yeah. And again, I think any time you have an emotional charge in your nervous system around any topic, a past relationship that hurts you, your parents, your siblings that bullied you, you know, whatever might be, something that hurt you in any way or something you have shame around, if you are emotionally charged when you talk about it, that thing still has some type of power or influence over you that's blocking you from feeling free. and you and I are here to continue to learn the tools to become free ourselves

and encourage people to break free of those emotional blocks that hold us back in any relationship in life. I'm not just talking about money. That's why for 25 years, I was unable to talk about being sexually abused when I was a kid by a man that I didn't know because I had such an emotional charge and I felt so unsafe by thinking about it, thinking what if anyone knew, no one would love me, no one would accept me, I'll be outcasted from society if people knew this about me. There was so much shame in my nervous system and fear. And it wasn't until I was able to process and heal that shame and start

talking about it where I was like, okay, I can say this and not feel pain anymore, not feel shame anymore. I've done the healing journey and therefore I'm free from that memory or that wound. And if people in the spiritual communities listening or watching cannot speak about money because they're ashamed of it or they're afraid of it or whatever, it's just saying that you are not free from that conversation or that feeling. And is that making you more spiritual? Is that making you more abundant? Is that making you feel free? I don't think so. And I'm not saying you're bad and wrong about this. It's just there's something to work on for you to set you more free. And when you can get comfortable in your nervous system talking about it,

looking at your bank account and not feeling bad or feeling shameful, and start just working within your life around this energy, I think it's going to be more helpful than hurtful. So good, man, because we can view money as a means to empower us to amplify our freedom or perpetuate our own prison. Yes. Like the relationship we have to, again, is just so insidious in so many ways. And so, yeah, these are really important.

Is there anyone you know, you don't have to say their name, but maybe one or two people you know in the spiritual communities, consciousness communities, who are incredible human beings, who have incredible gifts and talents that really help heal people. They have a presence, a love, a connection that you're like, man, this person really influences so many people in the communities, but they are just blocked around money. They don't charge money.

They give it all away for free. they feel guilty when someone tries to give them money. They say, no, I can't take your money. They're rejecting it. And can you see how that could be hurting them from amplifying their own life's fulfillment, but also the fulfillment of impacting others? Do you know anyone like that?

So many. Really? A lot of people. What would you say to those individuals based on your money healing journey or your relationship with money? And what it seems to be, you know, at 28, you have a sanctuary, you have a growing business,

but you also feel free with your money. You don't feel trapped by it or feel wronged by it. What advice would you give to the spiritual community who has struggles around creating financial prosperity? Yeah, that's a great question. I would say that what it means to be human is to have the capacity to move beyond any boundaries and limitations that are set on us.

And being a slave to money is a limitation and boundary of expressing our true nature as a creative being. And so no matter what area, what topic of life it is, if we have stuck energy around it, if we don't feel safe around it, if we don't have the capacities to own it, then it's limiting us and we are limitless. And so whether it's money or sexual energy or business or creativity,

wherever there's a block, there is an opportunity to expand beyond that block. And so when it comes to money, it becomes a taboo. You can get comfortable in the environment that you're in and the people that are around you that share similar beliefs around money that are sort of unspoken.

And so what I would say is to first spend time with people who don't have that same money story. Spend time around people that think much more expansively and don't have blocks around money and then start to challenge your own notion. And write down a lot of the questions we had in this conversation, what does it mean to live a rich life? what are my stories about money?

And then I think that starts to shift the direction of your focus around it. And then you're given the opportunity. I feel like in life so often you're given the same lesson until you pass the test. And when, let's say, you're an artist and you sell paintings

and you sell them for a couple hundred bucks, but you feel like the value is they're $1,000, or $2,000. You're given an opportunity next time somebody wants to buy your painting and asks for a discount to say, no, this is what it's worth. and that's uncomfortable,

but it is an opportunity for you to really refine what your value is and you'll be shocked at the level of abundance that comes in as a byproduct of you standing for what your value and worth this. Yeah, man, that's powerful. Yeah. What would you add to that?

That's great. Well, I would say that everyone watching or listening, you should create your own mastermind and so people can learn from you in the spiritual community about how to expand their message and charge properly for their message. but you should start a mastermind. That's what I think.

And it goes back to, you said it, like the mastermind habit of being around people that don't think the same way as you. And that's being uncomfortable. That might be investing in a mastermind or investing in a coach or a mentor or just saying, how can I be around someone like you

who has figured out how to create money around this knowledge or this skill set? But be willing to invest. There's a great story from Jen Sinscherro. I don't know if you know her book. You are a badass. I think it sold like, I don't know, five or ten million copies. And she's done a lot of the deep spiritual work.

But she was a writer in her early 40s, like living in a garage, you know, paying like 500 bucks a month or something in L.A. Like being the broke artist vibe, not a sellout. I'm going to be like the creative artist. I'm going to make arts. I'm going to write. And I'm going to charge minimum because I'm not going to sell out. And she talked about how she was sick and tired of being broke.

and having this limiting, like, artist lifestyle. And she ended up hiring a coach that changed her life forever. This wasn't, like, the best coach in the world who was, like, a multi-millionaire, but she hired a coach that knew more than her and had more courage to charge more. And she spent, like, I can't remember, like a thousand bucks a month on this coach, but it was like all of her money it felt like. It was so uncomfortable to invest in this coach. And this coach pushed her to charge more for her writing.

and to go write the book that she really wanted to write. And then she wrote, you are a badass. And it made her financially free for the rest of her life. She was like, if I didn't have the courage to invest, I want to know then said, I need to figure out how to make this money back. So it was that kind of stretching myself to invest in something, knowledge, a person, a mastermind coaching,

to then say, okay, I need to now expand myself to go be able to generate more. You did that when you got this house. You stretched yourself financially. to create a sanctuary, and you expand in your ability to create abundance. And that's what I would say. Like, you gave the answer. Surround yourself with people that think different about money.

And you'll start to take on those beliefs as well, or at least challenge those beliefs. And it's so valuable because when you see how money really is just a story, beyond taking care of your own needs, whether 100 grand or a million or 100 million becomes kind of your norm way of like annual revenue, it is a story. And you learn that when you talk to really abundant people who are extremely wealthy financially and how it's the norm, you almost expect it. Yes. And so obviously you create what you expect more of and what you believe your value is worth.

And I also start, you know, in the spiritual community, I would just say, don't stick in the spiritual community where people are not giving money away, you know, are not like investing in things based on what you're worth. Yeah. They'll find wealthy people who are broken and solve their property. problems. They'll pay you a thousand times more than a spiritual person and just trading sessions with each other. Like go find wealthier people or people that are in a demographic that have money and solve their problems. Yeah, the spiritual community is called planet Earth and there's

7.8 billion people. Exactly. Go find people with money. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Man, that's so good. And I think really valuable and something that I would have loved to get advice on, you know, 10 years ago would have been really valuable for me. And, And yeah, what do you think? Because I'm still on my money, mastery journey. Do you feel like you're similarly, like you still have a lot to learn? I mean, there's seven habits in the book, and the last one is the mastery habit. It's just like, okay, once you've broken through the ceiling of where you're at

or you start to feel like you've gotten to a place financially and emotionally at the same time where you feel healthy, there's going to be a new level. Like you just said the thing that you were like, I'm not going to be stoked about having to pay millions of dollars in taxes once I get there. But that's like, okay, now you have to break. through a new emotional feeling. This doesn't feel good. This feels good to make $10 million.

But now I'm going to pay $3.5 million of taxes to this thing that I don't believe in for these things at the government. Where is this money even going? Why are these roads broken? Why is this all messed up? All these things.

And you're going to have to say, okay, here's a new lesson for me. I haven't mastered this yet. So every time we hit new financial levels, there's going to be new things that come up for us emotionally that we're going to have to reprocessing. process and get through.

There's also new knowledge we're going to need to learn. You're going to say, how can I steward this money better? How can I contain this money better, invest this money better? So I'm not feeling bad by spending it out taxes or feeling bad by this. You're going to be giving more of it away. That's going to create new uncomfortable feelings. So we're going to learn how to master our emotions at different levels of financial abundance. And I haven't mastered it.

It's like, okay, you go back to the habit one. Habit one is the mindset habit. Am I living in gratitude and generosity? Or have I gotten stingy and cold and like hoarding my money? Because I feel like, everyone's trying to grab it from me now. Once you start making more money, people are going to start asking you for that money.

And there's a whole new relationship when you have money and the weight or the pressure of having it from friends and family and everyone asking, can you help me? There's a different emotional weight that you don't have when you're poor. When I was pouring my sister's couch, no one asked me for money because I didn't have any. Once I started making money and people knew, where they assumed I had money,

kids were hitting me up from middle school that I hadn't talked to in 20 years, being like, hey, man, I got this project. Can you help me? I'm like, we don't have a relationship. And now you're just jumping in and expecting me to give you something. That doesn't feel good. So you have to learn how to say no, create boundaries, learn how to disappoint people and feel okay with yourself in that process. And it's just a different level and journey of emotional healing

when you have more money. And some people may say, I don't want to deal with those problems. And then I'm comfortable at $50,000 a year because no one bothers me for money. You know, when we go out to dinner, everyone venmos each other the same amount that splits the check. And I'm comfortable with that. Then you're only going to create that type of financial abundance in your life. And that's okay too. It's just, is that the life you want? the important thing to, as we start to wrap up here, too, is again, just clarify, is that the life you want? Yeah. There's no right or wrong amount of money to be making. Is it an amount that you actually desire, that you feel good with? And is that a rich life for you? Yeah. Do you feel

rich? And that's a different amount for everyone. Different amount for everyone. Yeah. And for me, you know, sure, maybe there's numbers in my account that would be like, oh, that's cool. maybe it makes me feel a little bit more safe or secure for the level of life I have now. But if I can't emotionally feel rich with any of the amount of the money I have, then it kind of doesn't matter because I'm spiritually poor but financially rich. And I'd rather be have the money that I have and feel like I'm living a beautiful life and feel emotionally safe with me and safe with the money and safe on how I can navigate all of the challenges of life with the amount of money that I've been given and stewarding.

and know that this money is not mine. When I die, I don't keep it with me. It's given to me on loan for a period of time. And as a spiritual conduit in life, it's my duty to respect it and be of service and using it in the best way for me and my life, my dreams, the people around me, the charities, my team.

And if I don't respect it, then I'm probably going to lose it. And it's going to go to other people's hands. and it's going to be rented to them until they die or until they spend it. So we have to learn that principle. Yeah, it's again living in harmony with, in relationship to money because it can easily tip over to the other side where maybe we're not giving enough awareness or attention to that money conversation,

but then it can very quickly to becoming possessed by our possessions and focusing so much on money. You can't make it your God either. Right. Can't make gold and money your God. Otherwise, that'll trap you. Yeah. And it's also, you probably experienced this.

You know, I had, I think, 11 or 12 different friends or people I know who lost their homes in the last few months of the fires. You're in the community that people lost their homes. People lost everything financially or materially, potentially. And there's a lesson of just being detached to it as well and learning how to be okay with like, if you lost everything, sure, there's going to be some grief and sadness. And we're not here to spiritually bypass our emotions and say, I'll be fine no matter what. but if you're a slave to it or you're it's your god man it's going to be very painful when that goes away as it can and has for so many like like you just said you know i like things i like having a nice place and a nice equipment and all this but it can and i thought it almost did and at one of the

nights disappear in a moment wow how did that make you feel when you thought my everything i've created and worked hard for is going to be gone uh it was a it was a yeah it was a yeah Yeah, it was a lot. There was a lot of emotions. It was full spectrum. There was on one end, sort of total freedom from like the unknown and just like, I don't know what's going to happen. And I trust to like, damn, I poured so much time and energy and money into all the stuff.

And time is money. Yeah. All that time and earning money to build this studio and this home and buy this home. And you probably didn't have insurance because all the insurance companies cut it out, right? It's like, you're like all those years that I invented. in making money to invest in this place where there's no insurance. That's seven years of my life gone.

You're probably having that like, ha, I can't hold onto this feeling. What it did inspire was that like the gratitude of really what the studio is, which is really just a radio signal, an antenna for building a community throughout the world, which is actually what I love and what I'm passionate about.

Like this studio while it's nice, I enjoy being in it, is really just a means for what my purpose is, you know? And so it also, I had a shift coming back, too, of like, okay, I want to continue to spend more money on experiences, on, you know, building community. Like a lot of those things that build spiritual richness, you know, now that I've gotten, like a lot of the material stuff in place as well, continue to pour into those buckets. Because those don't go away. Those can't be burned away. Yeah, and that memory dividend lasts forever.

You know, those are dividends that pay forever, that trip you took with your friends in nature and the healing that happened. Like, you'll think about that and that'll be a rich memory dividend for the rest of your life. And that probably wasn't that expensive of a trip, you know, or whatever it might be, or going to Nigeria, or doing these different things. These are memory dividends. Bill Perkins talks about this in his book, Die with Zero, which is like, you shouldn't have all this money in your bank account when you die.

you should have rich life experiences and die with nothing in the bank. Because you'll have dividends that pay forever from those memories when you were 28 on that trip that you went to Egypt or whatever it might be. And those are the things that will last and create spiritual abundance. It's so true. I look back at any time I've done like a meditation retreat or spend prolonged periods of silence, always what comes up is memories of just extreme joy and play and excitement and adventure. that stuff is really what creates a true life.

And again, money is just a means to support that. Absolutely. Yeah. This was an awesome conversation. Thanks for having me, man. I appreciate it. It's fun. I loved it.

I think it's really important to talk about. And it's such an empowering conversation. And yeah, I really want to invite people to, whether you're listening on Spotify or YouTube, and you have a comment section to, like, drop down below what your takeaways are in terms of your money story. what does a rich life mean to you? I pay attention. I read the comments. I really think it's important

to reflect on that as a community. And if you want to dive deeper in Lewis's teachings and thoughts around all this as well, make money easy is the book, which you can find link down below. And any other last words, bro? I mean, I think we talked about a lot here,

but I just really believe that the richest life you can live as one of gratitude and generosity. That's the gateway to abundance. So keep being grateful, keep being generous. Don't block your heart and you're going to live a richer life.

I think your life and how you've decided to live is an example of that man. So I see you as somebody who lives a very rich life and any advice or thoughts or shared conversation, it hits different when it's coming from somebody who lives what they practice

and what they preach. Thanks, man. I've also just been at the bottom in so many different areas where it's like, I know how painful it is when you feel like you have no clue what you're supposed to do in your life. You're relying on everyone else

in your mid-20s and you're broke and you don't feel worthy and you don't feel deserving of love, of money, and you're just scared. I know that feeling. And so anyone watching or listening, like, there is a way out, and I'm glad that people are watching your show

because you're giving them tools constantly to support their spiritual growth and hopefully give them a current to push them a little bit to start taking these action steps. So I just know it's not an enjoyable life when you live in scarcity. And there's so much beauty on the other side, it might take a lot of work and courage, but it's worth it. Absolutely.

10 out of 10, it is. Yeah. Well, I loved all these reminders. Everybody, thank you for tuning into this episode. Lewis, appreciate you, man, so much. And, yeah, excited to hang out, man. Yeah, man. Appreciate you, thanks.

Peace, guys. Peace.