Know Thyself - E145 - Dr. Theresa Bullard: Physicist Explores The Missing Link Between Alchemy & Quantum Mechanics

Episode Date: May 6, 2025

Dr. Theresa Bullard delves into the history of the split between physics and metaphysics, exploring its implications for our understanding of reality. She examines the laws of science that limit our perceptions and discusses her transformative shift from classical to quantum physics. She explains the mathematics of the universe, the 7 steps of the alchemical process, and how to embrace a quantum mindset. Try MUDWTR & Get Up to 43% off + a free frother:https://mudwtr.com/knowthyselfAndrés Book Recs: https://www.knowthyself.one/books___________0:00 Intro2:07 History of the Split between Physics & Metaphysics 7:32 Laws of Science that Limit Us10:54 Her Shift from Classical to Quantum Physics 17:00 The Implicate Order (New Science)27:00 Mathematics of the Universe31:41 (Mindset) Transcend Limitation, Embrace Quantum Possibility38:35 Embracing the Uncertainty of Life44:27 Ad: Mudwtr Save 43%46:05 How New Age Spirituality Mis-uses Quantum Terms56:53 The Science of Alchemy1:01:56 7 Steps of Alchemy (Personal Transformation) 1:17:28 Honoring Your Past While Moving Forward1:23:08 Our Inner Alchemical Process1:26:16 The Transformations that Shaped Her Life1:29:17 How Our DNA Evolves as we Awaken1:36:33 Science of Extra Sensory Perceptions1:46:36 Creating Coherence in Body, Mind & Soul1:51:29 Entrainment: Take Your Future Into Your Hands1:58:39 Practices to Becoming an Alchemist 2:05:12 Activate Your Divine Potential2:12:00 Conclusion ___________Episode Resources: https://theresabullard.comhttps://modernmysteryschoolint.com www.quantumlearningacademy.co https://www.instagram.com/andreduqum/https://www.instagram.com/knowthyself/https://www.youtube.com/@knowthyselfpodcasthttps://www.knowthyself.oneListen to the show:Spotify: https://spoti.fi/4bZMq9lApple: https://apple.co/4iATICX

Further I dove into math and the further I dove into science, it always just validated that there is an intelligence behind this universe. Newton's laws of motion became a framework for a mindset that then got applied into economics, into business, into politics, into relationships. In our world today, a lot of people fear uncertainty because they can't control it. They don't know what's on the other side. But in a quantum mindset, the uncertainty actually is where we have this opening up of many possibilities. It changes everything.

It set me on a search that ultimately led me into studying alchemy again. So alchemy is the process of transformation. There are seven stages when I know what the stages of the alchemical process are, and I know where I am in that process, then I can know what's next. The universe is trying to help you grow and transform so that you can really achieve your greater purpose in life. The negative of that is it's not comfortable. The positive of that is that transformation's happening.

It's going to lead to something better if you participate with it rather than resist it. You have so much more potential. in you than you've ever been taught. Believe in yourself. What's up everyone? Welcome back to the podcast. Our guest today holds a PhD in physics from the University of Washington. She is a teacher, writer, author, speaker, leader, synthesizer of really science and spirit in so many ways. And taking what seems so oftentimes metaphysical, esoteric on the spiritual side and grounding it and also brings what can often be dense scientific material to parse through into understandable language as well. So Dr. Teresa, thank you so much for being here.

Thank you, Andre. It's a pleasure to be here. Pleasure is mine. I love to dive in off the bat. Let's dive in. And this area of exploration and the type of conversation that we're going to have today is one of my favorite because it's such a unifying area of exploration where the mass consciousness is pretty fragmented in exploring these different categories.

categories of life and I love how you bring things together. And so when you look at life from the spiritual and the physics and the scientific lens, going back in time, what do you feel like was the predominant divorce between seeing physics and metaphysics as two separate things? That's a great question. Actually, that's a big part of what, as I started my search, to try and figure out how can science and spirit rejoin? How can they complement each other? It's a set me on a search that ultimately led me into studying alchemy again. And, you know, as I was going through grad school and undergrad, you know, the history that we would get in science is that the alchemists were a bunch of pseudoscientists who were just trying to turn and let into gold,

and we know that can't be possible. So they were just, it was waved away as a sort of an embarrassment, if you will. But so my mindset was that, but it kept coming up synchronistically. It kept coming up. And the alchemist, so when I finally opened up my mind, because synchronicity just kept saying, look at this, look at this. As I looked at it, I realized, oh, the alchemy isn't what we were taught at all.

This is actually a goldmine, worth of wisdom. And it was the origin point of where science even came from. The alchemists were the original scientists. But when it was alchemy, science and spirit were interwoven. Like you couldn't separate the two. of them. And it was very practical. So so many of our forefathers of modern science were alchemists. Isaac Newton was a great example. You know, Bohm. I mean, there's so many. And we separated at that time after, you know, the scientific revolution really came in, I would say. And it could have been before,

you know, it was a long, many hundreds of years worth of like trying to find the math and the science. But I think there was a political reason ultimately why science and spirit separated because the church was the authority of all things spiritual in the European world anyway. And the alchemist wanted to be able to research and study and understand nature and the physical laws. But it was going against church dogma. So there was a reason why they had to sort of separate. They just said like, look, let's leave anything spiritual to the authority of the church and let us just research the physical world and how this works so that we can understand. Ultimately, their goal was to understand God's creation. But down the line later, it became more and more and more secularized

and more removed from anything spiritual. But it wasn't because there was a fundamental difference or conflict between spirit and physical or physics. It was more political. It's interesting to see how that's rippled out into the mass consciousness and especially the Western mind. But what kind of world do you feel like we'd be living in if the emphasis wasn't solely mostly on sort of Newton's mechanical, mechanistic models of reality, but maybe explore some of his theological and metaphysical and alchemical works. Yeah, I mean, Isaac Newton, he wrote Principia, and that was like the big thing that, all the laws of motion came off of, and it was one paper. But meanwhile, he had hundreds and hundreds of journals that were all about alchemy. And he even warned, you know, the scientists and his

fellow alchemists, like, don't take the divine out of the picture, right? And don't make the world a great machine. Don't make the universe a great machine. But that is exactly what they ended up doing. So I think that if we hadn't gone in that direction, if we had gone in the direction that Newton originally intended, you know, we would probably be very much ahead. And, and I, You know, in a way I see that there was an alchemy within science itself, you know, because the alchemical formula is to separate, purify, and recombine. And so it's almost like science had to go through its own phase of separation to really hone its craft and purify the way it operates.

And then, but now we're coming into this age where we need to recombine again and bring the spirit back to the physics. So for me, when I was in physics, it was like, okay, our knowledge. is advancing or technology is advancing. And it's going to start, we're now in this exponential curve of rapid advancement that's happening within just five years from now. The world's going be completely different than it is today, just based on science and technology. But unfortunately, our wisdom wasn't keeping pace with the advancement of the science and the knowledge. And therefore, the way in which humanity is choosing to apply the knowledge and the power and the tools that we

have available to us isn't necessarily towards the greatest good. And so I felt like it was more important for humanity to tap back into wisdom in order to bring the two together so that the wisdom could guide the scientific applications so that we can take these tools and technologies and this knowledge and power and apply it towards a greater good versus just the good of a few. for those that aren't familiar with the fundamental principles that were extracted in hindsight about Newton's Principia, Mathematica, and how that informed a lot of the direction we continue to explore from determinism to separability. Could you kind of illuminate what those four tenets were? Sure. So the first one is determinism. It basically says that if we were

given an initial set of conditions, we should be able to predetermine, based on the laws of science, all future evolution or all future progression of that initial state. Right. So it's deterministic, therefore we can predict it. We can control it. We should be able to know what's going to happen next. The second is separation. They would look at every piece as separate from the others. And if I then and they also separated out mind, you know, and spirit and whatnot from matter, right? So there was that separation that happened as well. And then, you know, we take that and we go to the next one, which is reductionism. So if I take a whole thing and then I can break it down into its components and its different parts.

And if I understand how each part works on its own, then I should just be able to sum them up and know how the whole works. But the problem with separation is it ignores all the interaction of things and the emergent phenomenon that comes out of those interactions and those relationships and the synergy and so forth. And then the fourth real principle that came out of the Newtonian science is realism. And realism kind of goes hand in hand with materialism, where it's saying that there is a real physical, tangible, objective world that is the only thing, you know, taken to an extreme. it says it's the only thing that's real is the material. And it would say then, therefore, that even consciousness and who we are is all just an epiphenomenon of physical processes. So those are the four major tenets of the Newtonian science.

That goes back like 340 years. And then we kind of add, you know, in terms of today's mindset, we added on to that Darwinian evolution, which was that sort of competition, survival of. the fittest, and then you add onto that Maslow's hierarchy of needs, which is also that you have to take care of survival first, then you can start pursuing, you know, more like education and purpose and self-realization and so forth. So those are like the major principles that got extracted from various scientific mindsets that have come to dominate our world, especially since the industrial revolution last, you know, 100 years or so.

that notion of materialism being fundamental creates the inherent separation of subject and object and views world and again like you said scarce sort of mentality and i know that in your educational studies at university there was sort of the shift as you were having your own spiritual development alongside the shift from classical to the quantum view and i would just be curious for you to share a little bit about your own personal journey during that time of like what shifted when you understood when you started exploring quantum physics and how that was much more exciting as opposed to the classical view okay um so I would say that actually started when I was in undergrad I you know were educated in the classical first right so classical

mechanics electromagnetism you know just basic statistical mechanics you know these are the classical things first and how does the macroscopic physical world work and what are those rules that govern that. And to me it was actually like a grind. It was a bit like it didn't inspire me. Let's just say that. And I kind of often wonder like, why do I need to know this? And what am I going to do with this information? And it was just like it really didn't click for me. I actually struggled with the classical mindset. But when I got into modern science, modern physics, and then ultimately got into high energy physics and particle physics and that, you know, went deep into the quantum world, I went, wow, this is different. This is exciting. This, for me, it actually intuitively

made more sense than the classical paradigm. And it opened up so many more possibilities and a lot more interest that I felt dovetailed with just at an intuitive level, like I knew things were more connected. I knew things where there's greater possibilities and so forth that opens up from the quantum. But then I got into grad school. And in grad school, I was immersed my first year of 80 hours a week of physics. So between classes and study and testing and research, you know, 80 hours a week, no room for anything else. And that, so I went from having, I would say, a life of diversity in undergrad to a life of just only physics and the only left brain for a year, two years as I got into my first bit of grad school. And after that first year, I found myself really disconnected

for myself. And that led to feeling depressed, really dissatisfied with like, why am I doing this? you know, because it's coming at the expense of my well-being and my sense of happiness. Do I really want to do this? Do I need this? And I just really started questioning a lot at that stage. And I knew like, okay, something's got to give. Like I got to bring some balance back into my life if I'm going to survive this process because, you know, the grad school in physics was very much a weeding out of the weak ones. And it was quite a grind. And so I started bringing very systematically, like everything that I had in my life before, what's the key? Like if I were to just bring in one or two of those things that, you know, I can be efficient with,

what's going to be the major key to that sense of well-being? And, you know, brought back creative hobbies and social time and athletics and all the things that you think create a well-rounded lifestyle. And another year goes by as I'm doing all of that. And it's like, okay, well, things are better, but there's still something missing. What is this thing that's missing? I've brought everything back in, but there's still something missing. and there was just this one day I was at the gym and this little voice I was contemplating in the back of my mind and this little voice kind of came in and said well there's one thing you haven't brought back in that was spirituality and I was a bit surprised at that stage but as I started to explore I thought okay anything I'm going to explore spiritually can't negate what I know to be true scientifically so I'm going to have to find where the two can at least align you know and and I couldn't go with blind faith and religious sort of approach at that stage.

So I looked for all the science and consciousness, science and spirituality, Tao of physics kind of stuff, like Eastern esotericism meets quantum physics. And as I started reading into it, it got me super excited. It reminded me of why I was pursuing science in the first place. And I realized, like, these actually dovetail beautifully. Like, they're saying the same thing. You know, one thing led to another where I was ultimately saying, okay, it's great to have the philosophy, right, the concepts that these two can complement each other.

But it's not practical. It's not grounded. Like, how do we apply this? Because I was an experimental scientist and it's like we need to round it into physical reality somehow. So that's what ultimately led me on the search to finding things like sacred geometry and alchemy and hermetic teachings and more the Western mystery tradition and how that I think worked really well with the modern scientific mindset because it really wants to understand the deeper underpinnings

of how things work and why they work. And so there's where I found like a real deep connection. And even in, I remember being in an astrophysics course at one point and they were talking about astrophysics cosmology. And then there was on the other side, I was reading like cabalistic cosmology and ancient wisdom teachings cosmology. And at the same time, I was reading these two things.

I'm like, wait, they're saying this essence is the same. They're saying the same things. They just have different ways of talking about it. But it's the same. So I thought, well, if these cabalists and these ancient mystics knew this thousands of years ago and modern science is just kind of reaffirming and catching up with it, what else did they know that could help guide our science today? It's something else you now.

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From binge all episodes exclusively on Paramount Plus. And so that led you down a further exploration of quantum physics of like booms, implicate order, and understanding how reality is connected at levels we're only beginning to be able to comprehend. And of course, that would ignite your excitement again for the mystery of life because it's not, everything's not known or, you know, into logically, logically, knowable in a sense, you know, there's a deeper sense of adventure in that. pursuit. For sure, that right around the time that quantum physics was being discovered just before that, I believe it was Lord Byron had said that science had reached the pinnacle of all the knowledge that

could be gained from science and it was just coming down now to a precision art, you know, just how much further behind the decimal point can we take our measurements? And right at that time, It was just like, okay, the scientists thought they had all the answers, and then the whole thing gets upended as quantum physics starts getting discovered. And I think that we've reached that kind of point multiple times along the way in science, you know, that they get to this place where they think they have the answers. And then some anomaly comes up that starts to challenge what they think they know, and then they have to, you know, and then enough anomalies start appearing. And then you end up with a scientific revolution as new generations start searching for what's the answer to

those anomalies. So quantum physics, to me, it opens up so many more possibilities, so many higher dimensions of where, you know, the creative process comes from. And then, you know, the more you study the quantum principles and some of David Bowen's work as well, where, you know, this, the hollow movement and the implicate order and higher dimensional realities, and that we have to look at things more holistically rather than a separate piece is. Like it just, it's so parallels. You know, these physicists are talking about things that really parallel ancient mysticism. And what the mystics would all say is that, you know, it's all one and there's these

higher dimensional realities. And here what we experience in the physical is just the final step of a manifestation process. But there's all these higher planes of creation that we can explore. When we view reality from this kind of just third dimensional view, with subject and objects, I think Boehm's kind of referred to or quoted something like the universe is not a collection of objects,

but a communion of subjects. And so like the exploration of consciousness being more fundamental of this implicate order that Boehm was exploring, I would love to unpack this a little bit and then we can get into some more quantum stuff and then all the alchemical, Kabbalistic, hermetic side of explorations

and how they kind of interlink with each other. But for people that don't know and aren't familiar with the, Implicate order, what does that mean? So the implicate order, there's the explicate order, which is kind of the what you see is what you get. It's like the surface physical level of things. External manifestations.

External manifestations, the 3D physical reality that we can observe and experience with our senses and so forth. The implicate order is a deeper reality that is underneath all of that. And he used an example of like, let's say you have. a big vat of some, you know, substance, you know, fluid like or a clay of some kind. And you can observe, you know, with a camera, let's say, you can observe what's happening on the surface, but you don't necessarily see what's going on underneath it, especially if it's opaque.

And you might put a drop of some dye, you know, but there's this movement that's happening throughout and underneath it, and you might see a little trail of what it's doing on the surface, but you have no clue what's happening underneath. And that's one analogy that he used for the implicate order is that deeper reality, the more whole picture versus the explicate being just what's on the surface

and what's observable. And so he kind of compared the quantum reality to this implicate order, this holo movement where there's a deeper reality to things whereas the kind of Newtonian way of looking at things is more what we just see on the surface. Another way of looking at that is if you have a higher dimensional object,

let's say, you know, just for the sake of understanding it, let's say we have a cylinder, right, a three-dimensional cylinder. And then you shine a light on that cylinder and it casts a shadow on a screen and you might see a circle. But if you shine a light on that cylinder and it casts a light on another screen, is you're going to see a square or a rectangle.

And then you have the scientists arguing which one's correct. Is it the square or the rectangle or is it the circle? But you have to kind of shift to this higher dimensional view to see that, oh, it's a cylinder, it's both, right? And so the quantum view is very much this is both. And there's so many more possibilities here, whereas in our sort of explicate order way of looking at things, we only see this or that and we think they're,

we think they're contradictory to each other. We think they're separate from each other, but they're not. And in order to see that they're one whole thing, we have to shift to a higher dimensional perspective and reality to see what the whole is. It's kind of like the six scientists trying to, who are blindfolded, are trying to identify what's an elephant.

One has the trunk and one has the tail and one has a leg and they're all kind of experiencing different things, but none of them are seeing the whole elephant. Yeah, that's like the exploration and probing of the explicate order of the physical external manifestations, which are all tied in a possible deeper, fundamental, implicate sense of the world. And that to me just opens up. And it intuitively just makes so much sense. And it definitely isn't, I feel like, talked about or explored as much in the mainstream narrative.

But, you know, when the understanding of quantum physics and that sort of exploration began, I think it started for many scientists and people that are exploring for truth on the spiritual side of things as well, really just kind of did a 180 on it and just like took us from, we think we know sort of how reality works and that we will through this one way of essentially measuring the explicate order of things to a deeper, fundamental, mysterious way of connectivity and entanglement that's happening beneath our sense perceptions. And so, you know, the founding fathers of quantum mechanics, you had two generations, really. You had like the Einstein kind of older generation who were a part of discovering like, oh, electrons are not just particles,

they're also waves. But then you had the younger generation, like with Niels Bohr and Heisenberg and Schrodinger, like they were kind of a younger generation coming through. And they were, were like very excited and ready to run with this. And there was some during those days when it was first being discovered like between 1900 and 1920, it's like the major period of discovery of quantum physics. They had some amazing debates and philosophical conversations. And a lot of them believed in spirit and someone, even Einstein. You know, he believed he was very mystical and in his own way. But he was still in his personal view. He was a bit of a classicist. to his deathbed, feeling like there had to be an elegant singular formula.

They could explain everything. And, you know, he's famously known for saying God doesn't play dice with the universe. He didn't like this uncertainty principle and that things weren't predictable and so forth. But then the younger generation were coming through and they, you know, created the Copenhagen interpretation that, you know, really relies on the observer to observe something that is a quantum object. and when we observe it, we collapse the waveform into physicality, and that until you have an observer that actually observes the result of something,

it's still in a superposition of infinite possibilities. And so they really brought the consciousness into the equation, but it was so radical at the time that scientists weren't really ready to accept it. And it's really taken 100 years for scientists to just keep testing the various predictions that quantum physics makes to see, like, is this entanglement thing really real? Can we really like separate particles, you know, by, you know, hundreds of thousands of miles and then still have instantaneous transfer of information? Is time really like, does that not matter in the quantum world? You know, because it definitely matters in our experience of reality.

But in the quantum, it's like, no, time doesn't really matter. It's non-temporal, non-local. And, you know, so it's only, like, they've continued to devise experiments to test, is this true? Because it was so radical. And it was like Alice going down the Wonderland and, you know, and everything getting kind of churned upside down. And only, I would say, in the last five to ten, five years especially, have I start beyond just sort of the science and consciousness kind of community. I've started to hear more and more public conversation, more and more acceptance of quantitative. as a way of viewing things.

And so there's been a shift in the last five years that's like, oh, people are more ready now for this conversation than they might have been 10 or 15 years ago, and let alone 100 years ago. You know, so, yeah. And I think it can, and I'm looking forward to getting your perspective on how it can go a little bit too far in terms of taking things out of their technical context.

But when you study emergent complex systems and you see kind of how there's both in the explicate order and the macro side of things, there is reflection of what's happening and there's like clues, hints, breadcrumbs of what's happening at a deeper sense. And so you study order, symmetry, beauty,

like cues within nature, and you start to see this correlation between the micro and the macro. I don't know if you saw that, I'm sure you did that, those entangled photons that looked like the yin and yang symbol that was in a recent study.

I don't know if you saw that. Okay, cool. But like seeing those entangled photons and how they showed up, and look like that, we'll put it on screen. It's just, it's, it's interesting to see the deeper the study goes, the relationship between those, those two. Yeah, and the more the esoteric continues to be revealed and validated, right?

It's like it's having revival, but it just keeps pointing back to ancient wisdom that's been here all along. It's just almost like we had to go so far away from it to come back to it to realize, now this is, there is, you know, truth here. There's a deep, deep, deep meaning. here. And I think sacred geometry is one of those ways in which the two really meet. Like, every time you talk about sacred geometry, we have to talk about numbers. We have to talk about mathematics. We have to talk about harmony and frequency. And, you know, and then, of course,

you have symmetry and beauty and things like this that come in, but there's practicality to it as well. The reason those geometries are the building blocks for the physical world is because they're the most energy efficient way of organizing the various components. And so there's, there is this beautiful dovetailing between, you know, real like physical science and taking all the principles of energy conservation and efficiency and so forth. And then, you know, the geometry that arranges the, whether they're the particles or the molecules or, you know, whatever, whether it's crystals or the DNA itself for even at the subatomic levels and atomic orbitals, like everything, the deeper you probe, the more you realize that geometry is at the core of all of it. It is a language of creation of how

things are built, not just in the physical, but also in the metaphysical or in the kind of the blueprints of this energetic realm that then ultimately governs how the physical components come together. Yeah, I think for anybody who goes deep enough, off into many different fields, you start to see the similarities and interconnection of it, which makes sense, you know, if there's this deeper underlying thing in which all external manifestations originate

and where mathematics, you know, or mathematicians discover higher dimensional objects like the amplitude, hedron, and see the inherent beauty in that complexity and how that relationship between order efficiency in geometry is pervasive throughout the universe is, you know, it's just exciting when you start to actually like experience and study truth and how things are really operating.

And I think even just like from a purely mathematical perspective, I remember in my undergraduate studies, I was in an honors calculus class. And the professor started getting into things like pie and phi and e, you know, these fundamental constants that we have in the universe. And then seeing ultimately through like Euler's, you know, identity equation, that they all came together. And, you know, what seemed like they were, and they were separately discovered, and they seemed like they were separate constants. And they didn't

really know why, why is it that number other than that's just kind of how it emerged through the formulas. But then to see them all come together in this like perfect unity, it, to me, the further I dove into math and the further I dove into science, and especially into quantum physics, to me it always just validated that there is an intelligence behind this universe. There is beauty and reason and divine design, if you will, behind this universe. And even to the point of like, if we were to just, if we were to just change the mass of an electron by just a fraction of a percentage, the whole universe wouldn't have been able to come to bind together in the way that it has.

And so there's, you know, there's such beauty behind it. And to me, the more I discovered and explored, the more I was like, there's got to be intelligence. There's got to be a consciousness. There's got to be a purpose behind it all. It just provoked so much awe and wonder, especially when we're scientifically exploring, for example, what an electron is and these fundamental constituents and particles of the universe. And we realize, oh, we're also made of these things.

it brings into question who we are and what our relationship is in the universe in a really, really interesting way. And one of these aspects, you know, take it where you will, but from the quantum perspective, looking at ourselves as a quantum being, looking at life from pure possibility instead of the Newtonian probability way of navigating life, radically shifts and orientes ourselves differently towards life. So what do you think about that? This is my favorite subject. We, yes, this, you know, so Newton's laws of motion back, you know, several hundred years ago, were extrapolated and became a framework for a mindset that then got applied into economics,

into business, into politics, into relationships, into psychology, you know, that became a framework, those principles that we talked about at the beginning. And yet, you know, in our world today, and we're still, people, are still very much operating on that way of living. You know, they still see themselves as separate from other things. They still think they can control everything. They still think, you know, that they can just be rationalistic about everything. And yet our world today is, is like very different than it was three, four hundred years ago. And that mindset isn't keeping up with the fast pace, the highly complex, the highly uncertain world that we live in today. And so I see,

see the quantum principles as, and I've experienced it myself, that the more I came to really wrap my mind, but also my intuitive kind of relationship with these quantum principles, it informed a whole new way of looking at life. As you're saying, you know, it opens up possibilities. You know, in the uncertainty, for example, a lot of people fear uncertainty. They fear moving into the unknown because they can't control it. They don't know what's on the other side and the separation kind of mindset makes them, you know, react with fear. And maybe they'll go forward ready to fight. Maybe they'll freeze and just do nothing or maybe they'll retreat away from that. But in a quantum mindset, for example, the uncertainty actually is where we have this opening

up of superposition of many possibilities. And then it's a matter of like, what do you want to do with all those possibilities? What are you going to create? What are you going to choose to observe and make happen to make manifest in the uncertainty, right? So the uncertainty opens up the door for free will and choice and opportunity to come through again and many possibilities. But you've got to approach it with a positive attitude. You've got to approach it with a certain embracing and optimism moving towards it in a positive way.

The connectivity, right? So instead of seeing things as separate and just isolating all the little parts, a quantum mindset says everything is connected, there's entanglement. And, you know, that by our own interaction, we're entangled together. There's a connection that's established. And that connection can be non-local. So even when we leave this time and space, there's still a connection that happens. Because in the quantum mindset, there really only is here and now. Because in that quantum field, everything is a oneness field. So, you know, it changes everything as we start to embrace these quantum principles. And this is one of the things that I've become really passionate about

teaching is how we can take the quantum principles as a new framework that will really serve us in today's world. And it's not to say that we would throw the Newtonian principles out the door. It's more like we have to learn to, instead of just playing the game of life on one level, this 3D level, we have to learn to play the game of life on multiple dimensional levels. And on this level, we got the 3D Newtonian principles. And on another level, we've got the quantum principles. And when you can learn to shift between, you can make leaps, you know, quantum leaps, if you will, in your life and then bring that new possibility back down into your 3D reality.

And so it's about becoming more multidimensional in our way of living life and knowing what's possible. And yet there are still rules and principles, if you will, in the quantum and how to operate in that way correctly. where you really are accessing quantum potentials versus just imagining that you're accessing quantum potential. So I do believe that the world right now needs this kind of a mindset. And it dovetails beautifully with ancient wisdom. And so I'd like to see how, you know,

we can draw from ancient wisdom and we can show how modern science, you know, is matching and saying the same thing so that we can come back to this era of a conjunction of a union versus a, separation. Yeah, it's that holistic lens is really needed. I feel like any time we internally, as an individual or societally, just come out of a growth of a, like we grow into a new phase, we almost judge our prior, the prior version because we're so fresh out of it. And understanding

things in the right place from the Newtonian view to the quantum view allows us to again, just have a holistic lens and how they all are, you know, looking from different perspectives and lenses on, and there's no right or wrong, better or worse. They're just different, right? Yes, exactly. And even in quantum physics, you know, there's this realization that everything has to be understood in its proper context, right? There's no like black and white one size fits all.

In the quantum world, everything's contextual. And so the new paradigm, if you will, doesn't discard the old paradigm. It builds upon it and expands it to a new level of perception of a great, whole where yes, this is true in those contexts. And then there's these other truths that are, you know, valid in other contexts as well. There's a great quote by Bohm where he said that the opposite of a fact might be a falsehood, but the opposite of a profound truth might be another profound truth. And that, you know, Newtonian science is a profound truth in its day and it's not that it's false. It's true in this, you know, it's very practical for this 3D

macroscopic reality that we experience, but it's not the whole truth. And, you know, there's, the quantum physics seems very opposite and contradictory to Newtonian physics. Like, they turn all the principles on their head. But it's not false. It's another profound truth. And it's, and it's really a profound truth that operates at the deeper layers of reality that are at the foundation of your being, of my being, like we are quantum at every particle in our body, you know, and not just the particles, you know, the field. We are a field of energy, a field of consciousness. And if we want to really understand that deeper essence of who we are to know thyself,

we got to dig deeper into the quantum. And it's so much so in that integration of polarities and different understandings that I feel like true vibrancy is born out of. Like if we want to translate that model from the Newtonian and quantum view to our own personal lives, I would love to see what your thoughts are on how, there are, you know, various things in our life that we need a sort of logical, um, A to B sort of way of looking at things and taking care of logistics and our family in our life. And then when it comes to like approaching uncertainty and like, uh, what we're going

to do with our life, how we want to share, um, in the, in the world and, um, maybe a new phase of life that's coming after growth spurred or transformation in our life. Um, embracing that, that, that kind of quantum view is super necessary. So how do you think? think about the kind of the dance and weaving between both in our life. That's a great question. You know, when people, let's say they're going through a big life change, right, maybe the rug got pulled out from under them and they are forced to make a change. Or maybe they're just realizing, like, I'm not, this isn't me and I can't continue this. I have to make a change because otherwise my soul's just feeling crushed. And they start looking, right? And they open up to a new search

of discovery. That's when they go into a time of great uncertainty. Or maybe they're trying to identify, like, what's my greater purpose? And they feel like they should have a purpose, but they don't know what that is. You know, there's a lot of uncertainty in that. Those times are the times where I would say, you know, the A to B kind of approach isn't really going to support you right now. Because you're just, you know, like Einstein said, you can't solve the problems that you're facing right now from the same level of thinking that you were at when you created them. and so we need to rise to a higher level of thinking, a higher level of consciousness to solve those issues.

So those are the times when we really want to rise up into a more quantum space. And to me, there's certain keys that come with, like, what does it mean to actually access a quantum space? And I think in some of the new age sort of way that people are throwing quantum around these days, It's not really quantum. It's just kind of another name for saying everything is energy and vibration.

Yeah, it's a bucket term. It's a fancy catch-all term. But it's not always being used properly. Most of the time, it's not being used properly. But sometimes it is, you know. And so there's certain keys and coherence is like a really important key. And stillness is a really important key to really being able to access a higher state where you can tap into the quantum.

And if you're not in that stillness and coherence, then, you know, you just got a lot of scattered thoughts and subconscious versus conscious and things are kind of conflicting within you, then it's going to be difficult to really access that quantum state. But when you can access the quantum state, when you learn the right methods and practices that will support you in doing that, then you can tap into these infinite possibilities. And not only that, inspiration, like there's so much energy. and so much sense of like limitlessness that starts to flow through, it really fills you with this like excitement and confidence and like a flood of ideas

that come through and passion and it ignites, you know, these like, oh, this, you know, and the aha moment start coming in and you start putting like pieces together. And as that all starts to flow down into your mind's, okay, I'm grasping it now. Now how do we go A to B, right? here's where we start taking the practical steps. Okay, now I've got the vision. Let's plan it out, right? Let's get practical.

Let's do the to-do steps. Let's do the organization, the time management, all of these kinds of things, and then start taking the actions, right? And so there's a transition point that happens from the quantum to the Newtonian. And even in science, you know, they say Newtonian science is a statistical average of quantum phenomenon. And so there is this transition point where we come into, okay, many pieces are coming together and then at some point the quantum phenomena kind of averages out if you will and then we get

you know into our Newtonian way of operating so we need to know both games yeah and it opens up so many doors about what the nature of intuition is if the form is always informed by the formless then when asking ourselves what we want to create in the world what decisions i want to make and you know in my life what does again those words coherence and stillness are very important to sort of of get out of our own way to be able to tap into and allow something greater to come through us instead of just from us and from our mind. Yeah. So like stillness is going to be kind of like coming to zero point. You know, you have to reach that place of just like you're in the emptiness. You're in the nothing. You've let go of any attachments, any assumptions, any biases, any expectations.

You've let it all go and you've just like really opened yourself up. Another way you could say is like really humbling yourself, but there's a stillness where you almost like kind of go into this void space and just be. And there's nothing. But then that becomes a portal that we can step through into a quantum space where those infinite possibilities start to become accessible. And in that quantum space to really like access those infinite possibilities, that's where coherence comes in. And coherence means everything's aligned, the same frequency, it's in phase, it's all in the same direction, right, versus kind of being scattered. And so within our consciousness, like our conscious mind has to be aligned. Our subconscious has to be aligned. Like at every level of our being,

we have to be aligned in feeling like a yes, a resonance. When we have that yes and that resonance at every level of our being and is aligned at a higher level, then we've got coherence and we can create from that space. That's where the fun begins. Yes. Hey, fam. One thing that brings me joy in my life is a good, warm morning drink, but I don't drink coffee,

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movie ever, you know, like the surprise and the mystery is what is so enchanting. Just because we touched on it, I am really fascinated, and I feel like this is a purging moment for the new age spiritual kind of movement and understanding around all these things, because we can get quite lazy with the language we use. And I feel like it really denigrates the credibility of people that have amazing heart and capacity to impact the world using language in sort of that Dunning Krueger way where you just know enough to kind of sound fancy. Yeah, almost like weaponized intellectual like words. And it also ties into like superiority sometimes. And I'm just curious your thoughts on how we bridge scientific rigor and mystical language without diluting either.

Thank you for that observation. And yeah, you know, science is a precision process. It's very precise. And I mean, this is why they have so much terminology in science because they're like really precisely trying to define everything. And in the new age, we get a bit hand-wavy, right? And loosely using terms. And that becomes problem.

I mean, it might sound fancy and it might get it in the mass consciousness, which is great, but then there's a misunderstanding of what it really means, which then doesn't serve people. And that's when scientists, you know, traditional scientists tend to just say, oh, that's pseudoscience. And they just kind of wave it away because they also have their own intellectual elitism, if you will, around what is an acceptable use of scientific terminology and what's not. So I like to, you know, find that middle path, if you will, that we can explore into the metaphysical with this. And I think even Nikola Tesla said that the day that science begins to explore non-physical phenomenon, it'll, you know, make more progress in one decade than it

has in all the previous centuries of the scientific method. And so we're kind of coming to that bridge point right now. And I think from the perspective of where the New Age has gone is it's gotten too loosey-goosey, right, too airy-fairy. if you will, and it is too, I don't want to offend anyone, but there's like too much image-oriented stuff. Like if you sound really cool and if you got the latest, greatest buzzwords, you know, then you've got the, you're the in-person, right? Yeah, it's a new wardrobe. It's a new identity structure to kind of, again, like our ego is so slippery and how it can use anything to build a sense of superiority. That's one aspect of it,

but then there's also just the genuine innocent misunderstanding of these things, right? Well, and sometimes people feel really good about themselves because they've got the concepts and they wear that identity badge, if you will, but they aren't living it. You know, they're not embodying it. And there's a huge difference between having knowledge of something or concept about something and having understanding about something. I think that this is where we need to evolve. We need to shift from just concepts and knowledge and,

identity badges, you know, because we believe some certain things and yet not live it, right? The difference between knowledge and understanding is you're living it, right? And to get to understanding, you have to apply it. You have to take it into action. You have to test it out against the world in your life. You have to live it and embody it. And once you've like really come to a place of embodying that concept and living it in your life and not just talking a good talk, but walking the talk, if you will, then you really know. And then you can be somebody

who can share that with others. But if you just have a concept and you try to be somebody who shares it with others, you don't know what you're talking about. You're just trying to sound fancy. And so we do have this, unfortunately, in the world today. There's a lot of, you know, people who claim to have the knowledge and the answers,

but they're just using the buzzword. Yeah. But there are also really genuine teachers out there who have the understanding, but I find that to really come to a place of understanding, you have to do the work. And a lot of people don't really want to do the work. And that's really where you start to figure out

if somebody's just going to stay kind of fluffy about things or if they're really going to make progress in their life. And to me, with the people I work with, I want to work with people who really want to make progress. They actually want to take these tools into application and live it and embody it and really come to understand it, versus just know about it.

Yeah? Yeah, Meister Eckhart, I remember saying something like scientists may disagree to infinitum, but, you know, mystics of the world speak the same language. Because reality can actually only be experienced intrinsically. Like we can, of course, know aspects of it

through the rational, logical mind, but through the embodied experience of such concepts, does one actually begin to even know something? The rest of it actually is a knowledge. It's not really. really a nosis as a better, better word there. And so to make this fruitful for anybody who's listening, because I'm sure we've all fallen in traps of, you know, doing this. And anytime we critique something, I would love to kind of help replace the bad habit, was an example of, like,

language that's used out of its context that you would love to see a little bit more refinement with, that you kind of tend to see often. Could you, and yeah, how would, how would you remedy that? Okay. So one example that I hear is, you know, when people say it's all energy, therefore it's all quantum. Have you heard that before? Yeah. Okay. So when we say it's all energy, that's actually not a quantum view. That's, that goes back to Einstein, right? E equals MC squared. Everything is energy. Matter, you know, it's all energy, but that's actually a classical paradigm. In the quantum view, energy is an epiphenomenon that he means. merges out of the quantum. So is time, so is space, so is matter, right? So time, space, matter, energy, all these things that are in the phenomenological world, they're Newtonian, if you will, they're classical. But in the quantum, it's all information, possibilities, potentialities, but nothing actualized. And energy is an actualized form. So that's one sort of, so we can,

in quantum physics we talk a lot about information. And we talk about wave functions, but wave functions are about possibilities and probabilities. They're not about actuality or energy even. And there is this like bubbling sea of, you know, it's constantly in movement. Like there is like a vibration to it, but it's not a physical vibration.

It's a potentiality vibration. So there's a subtle shift there that can happen. Another example, you know, I heard somebody saying recently like, You know, if we're really grounded, could you say that we've collapsed our waveform into presence? It's like, that sounds really cool. Sounds nice. But I don't know what that means, you know, as a physicist, it's like, what do you mean?

You know, so it's like taking these fancy words and putting them together in something that sounds cool and it makes you look good, but it doesn't really mean anything. And so this is about really understanding more the true definitions of things. I think that it starts by really digging in to understand what does that really mean. And is this the proper context to be using that term? Or am I just, you know, hand-waving with my use of it sound cool? Yeah. And part to blame is the education system in which has raised us in a sense to, like, memorize facts as a form of intellectual knowledge instead of following our deep and a curiosity

to truly understand what something is, what something means, and therefore when we use it, we can just approach these areas with humility and speak from what we know instead of speaking from what we wish to sound like we know. You know, there's a teacher in the mystery school that I study with, the modern mystery school, who's got a great way of putting that.

He says, you cannot share what you do not have. And if you don't have true understanding of what is you're talking about, you can't share understanding with anybody, right? So you got to first make sure you've got it before you start professing it. And that doesn't mean we have to be perfect, right? Because I also am a firm believer that you're going to master something by helping, you know, serve with it in some way or teach in some way.

And then through the reflection of the people you're working with, you're going to learn more and you're going to advance your knowledge. And in fact, you can't master something until you've served with it. you have to take it into service so that it goes beyond just you and your relationship with it and you can then see how it applies to other people. And so for me, like, the fastest path to coming to know thyself is actually a path of serving other people and helping them to come, you know, to come to know thyself. And the more I help others come to know thyself, the more I come to know myself. And, you know, it's this reciprocal kind of thing that happens because we're all connected.

and the more we really work with that from a place of humility, as you're saying, you know, that it's not about me. It's not about my ego. It's not about whether I'm like. It's not about how popular I am. It's not about any of that. Like, I've got to take the me out of the equation in a way and just serve, you know, because I want to make a difference or because the world needs, you know, to become a better place.

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S-UVW, German engineered for all. Yeah, it really feels like our own specialness or uniqueness gets born out of actually the letting go of the need to be perceived as unique and special. You know, it's in that then like authenticity radiates. And, you know, authenticity definitely has gotten a big PR agent over the past couple decades. So it's a trendy term. But like the lack of agenda internally, I feel like allows for genuine connection both between you and other human beings, but also you and what you're here to be doing. another word that I think we just don't have as much understanding of what it really is and can be kind of judged from the scientific lens is again, sort of this like spiritual new agey area of life is alchemy. And I love how you bring nature into the understanding of this.

Again, it really grounds it. And so if somebody's just like just learning alchemy 101, what is fundamentally that process? So alchemy in its most fundamental kind of definitions is the process of transformation, but also the process of raising vibration. So how to take something from its raw state where it has impurities and it's maybe corrupted or it's not in its ideal form. And then how to take that through a series of steps, alchemical but also scientific, if you will, steps, very specific procedures that ultimately purify it and refurb.

define it and bring it to a more perfected form. So for example, if we want to go and make a herbal remedy, you go out and you gather the herbs from nature and they're in their raw form, they're not yet in the, like, at the purest way in which we can consume them. So we have to take them from nature and take them through a series of steps in a lab and break it down, like let the plant die, if you will, let it dry out. take that then, you know, maybe we extract like a tea as an extraction, for example, or an essential oil is another kind of extraction of that plant and then, you know,

herbal remedies where they're in the tinctures, you know, there's another extraction, homeopathic kind of remedies or another extraction. So these are different like physical processes that we can do that will extract the pure essences of the plant while discarding the impurities or the parts of it that are not quite conducive to our well-being. But like, for example, distilling the spirit or the alcohol, making the essential oil, making the homeopathic or the supplement, like the salts, these are all like one essential out of the whole plant, but there's actually three essentials so they can each become a different branch, but in alchemy, you'd actually bring them all back together, right? So you'd perfect the form

back to where all the essentials come back together and they're in this highest sort of elevated pure vibrational state that when you partake of that, it works on all levels. Like it works with the homeopathic. It works with the essential oil. It works with the herbal remedy. And it works at all levels. So there are seven stages in the traditional kind of way of looking at alchemy. And each one of those is, you know, when you're going through it at a personal level, because we also go through personal transformation, we will feel very uncomfortable through different stages of the alchemy because some of it's the breakdown and some of it's the like disillusion where you have a lot of emotion come up. And some of it.

It's like trying to find clarity, but you've got to pick out the pieces of, and discern. And then you come to a place where you feel good again. And it's like, okay, we've gone through the transformation and now we're here, but you're not actually quite fully there, but you're feeling good again. And it's very easy to step back into a comfort zone and just say, okay, I'm good now. I've been through the ringer and now I'm good. And they sort of stop the process about midway through the alchemical transformation. to go the final stages, you have to really participate with it.

You have to really continue to keep that, the fire under you, if you will, so that you continue to improve and refine and keep digging in deeper and finding those subtle places where the ego still has its attachments and the weeds kind of have their roots. And you keep pulling them out until you finally kind of break through into the ego is not involved. anymore. I mean, you still know who you are, but the ego doesn't have so much attachment. It's like it's surrendered. And then we can move to a higher level of just, I'm here to be a vessel. And I have a unique purpose and a unique way of delivering that essence, if you will. But it's

not about the ego anymore. It's so fascinating to me, just the process of transformation, both our inner alchemical journey, you know, of becoming more of our true self, of knowing ourself, and the bountiful examples in nature where the origination of something looks nothing like yet's encoded within what it started from. Obviously, a great example is just seeds, right? You know, or an acorn that becomes a big tree. It doesn't look anything like each other, but the potential lies dormant within it. If you just got like plopped down onto earth, and you held those two things and you knew nothing and you said that is going to come from this be the most crazy thing ever right and so that process of transformation how something and this

emergent phenomena arises I'd love your analogy if you want from the caterpillar to the butterfly which is obviously cliche but I love how you break down the seven stages of the alchemical process because that can be applied to viewing our own journey as well so yeah yeah so in my book the game changers, social alchemists in the 21st century, I do this analogy of the caterpillar becoming the butterfly and aligning the metamorphosis stages with the alchemical stages. So the first is like, you have the caterpillar, it's feeding off of the leaves and the fat of the land and it's very earthbound. And all it's really doing is feeding. You know, it's just kind of consuming resources and getting fat. and then at some point there's like this little timer that goes off inside of its DNA and it says,

okay, it's time for a nap. And it goes and it spins itself a chrysalis or the cocoon and it kind of settles in for this nap. And that's the stage where it goes into the first alchemical stage where in alchemy we call it calcination, but really what it in which means burning it to ash. But here in this case with the caterpillar, it's not a burning, but it's a dissolving where all of the old form of the caterpillar breaks down. So once it's in its, it's crystallis, if you were to, at some point, go and, like, cut it open and look, you would not see anything that resembles a caterpillar. You'd just see a soupy-gooey mess because the whole structure has broken down.

So that's the first stage. And then we have the dissolution stage, which is this dissolving. And so all the cells kind of become dissolved into this mix, if you will. And the DNA, meanwhile, is putting out a new signal. There's a new type of cell that starts getting created. And it's called the imaginal cells in the metamorphosis process. And these imaginal cells have the blueprints, if you will, for becoming the color of the wing or the antenna or the, you know, the structure of the wings. Ably named whoever shows the name for those cells.

They're mad. They have a greater imagination. And what happens is that there's like a bit of a battle that kind of happens inside that chrysalis with the old cells thinking that these new cells that are coming in or the enemy, they think it's a virus because, wait, you know, we're breaking down. Everything's breaking down. And the immune cells of the old caterpillar start to attack the new cells that are coming in. And so this disillusion stage is very like confusing, if you will. So when we're going through that, we feel a lot of emotion, a lot of confusion.

We might actually be at war with ourselves over that process. But as the caterpillar or the butterfly metamorphosis starts to continue, the imaginal cells start to find strength in numbers. They start to kind of combine together. And in that, they're able to fend off, you know, the attacks are coming. And then soon as there's enough of them that start gathering in numbers, they start realizing, okay, now we can start to diversify. You can be a digestive cell. I can be a color cell and so forth. And they start to diversify. And the very, very beginnings of a new

structure starts to form. This is what we compare to like the separation stage where we're starting to kind of divvy out so that we don't have to do everything and be everything. We can have our unique roles and we can serve a greater whole and a greater function. And as that continues to progress and the new structure of the butterfly starts to form, the, we move forward into the conjunction stage, which is, okay, now there's a coming together. Because those old cells can still be purposeful. They can align with a new structure. And so the old cells sort of have this choice.

Well, we can either go over there because something's working over there. And we can like take our skill sets and whatnot because a digestive cell can still be a digestive cell, for example. and we just have to align with a new structure. And if they don't, then they end up becoming obsolete and dying off. So there's that sort of separation and then this conjunction where all of the cells start to come together into this new form. And that new form then starts to make it clear what is this new thing that's emerging out of the soupy mess.

And then as the old cells all die off, right, there's this fermentation, which is, fermentation is kind of like the death of the old, the final death of the old. And everything else that makes it past that fermentation is meant to be part of this new structure. It's part of the essential form, you know, the essential aspects of it. And then there's a stage where we go into what's called distillation. So the end of the fermentation stage in alchemy, they talk about the peacock's tail where

there's this like yellow rainbowy film that comes in and there's all this color that comes in and there's this light that comes in. It's like this kind of epiphany at the end of the dark night, if you will. We all go through that dark night of the soul, but when you get to the other side of it, there is this epiphany of who am I and all this light that we start to see.

And in the caterpillar, it's kind of like as the crystallist starts to break open, and the light starts coming in, and the butterfly that's emerging starts to move towards the light, but it still has to go through a process and it's actually having to struggle to get out of the chrysalis. Now, if you were to come along and say, oh, that poor little butterfly,

let me help it, and you open up the chrysalis and bring it out, it would not be strong enough to fly. And it would have a very short and boring life because it wouldn't be able to do what it's meant to do. So we can't actually rush that stage. It has to go through the struggle. And in that struggle, in alchemy, we would call it a distillation. You're going through many cycles of elevating

and accessing more the spirit of the higher frequency energies and then recondensing it back into the physical. And we go through like seven cycles of this in alchemy. They call it the seven eagles flying, where there's this distillation of elevating and then recondensing and elevating, like kind of sublimating and recondensing. And in the Emerald tablet, he says it ascends from earth to heaven

and again descends to earth. And thereby it revives the powers of the superior and the infarries and kind of brings them together into this sort of perfect union, if you will. So this is the distillation stage that struggle getting out of the chrysalis. And I think humanity's kind of going through that right now. We're certain in the final stages of these like

the fermentation and we're struggling to get out, to break out of the chrysalis. There's a new paradigm that's really emerging and we're starting to see it, but it's not quite there yet to be implemented fully. And then, and even then, there's another stage where once the caterpillar or the butterfly fully gets out of the crystallis and it's done, okay, it's free, it needs to dry off. It needs a little bit of a rest

before it can then take flight. And when it finally takes flight is like the final stage of alchemy, which is the coagulation where it's crystallized. It's in its new perfected form. And it can go and bring its beauty and its joy to the world, if you will. So many parallels in terms of that process, which was very detailed, by the way. I love that. No one can ever tell me that I'm not detailed. I'm thorough, if nothing else. But so many throughlines to our own personal growth and transformation process, right? Both from the perspective of the physical, but then also the mental and the emotional and how those bodies evolve over time and the subtle. Yeah. And I think it applies also to us individually, and you can see where you are in those alchemical stages as you kind of

look at them. And I think that that's why alchemy is such a great roadmap, if you will, to our transformational process. And to see when you're at the midpoint, like, oh, I got to get, there's more to do, right, so that I don't give up and just sort of relax and then slide backwards and have to start it all over again. It's like I can just keep it moving forward and keep gaining ground, but it's going to require more will and more discipline, if you will, more patience as well. and that letting go of the ego. But I also see that humanity as a collective is going through this alchemy.

And alchemy is, this transformational process is just, it's part of nature in the universe. It's just a universal, like, flow that happens. Even stars go through alchemy, right? As they go from just sort of plasma of particles to coalescing to then, you know, creating and generating light to then at some point becoming a supernova. You know, they're going through their own alchemy.

The formation of galaxies is now chemical process. So alchemy is something that happens universally from the smallest of structures all the way up to the largest of structures. And so I love how alchemy parallels with quantum physics as well. And the more I looked into alchemy, the more I saw actually the alchemist, their attitude was very quantum. everything is connected. It all matters, right? I can't separate myself from what I'm experimenting on. I have to take all of these things into account because they all matter and we're all connected.

And, you know, and they brought together, you know, the sort of non-physical and the physical working together into the alchemical process. I think it breeds so much compassion into understanding our current part of the process we're in, in our own life, you know, when we're growing or we're going through different changes, where it's maybe that coagulation or fermentation process internally, you know, or it's like a dark night of the soul or whatever you want to call it, where we like to project our present moment experience onto the eternity of the rest of our life without honoring and just reflecting on how we're in a certain phase of a process

that is unfolding in a larger cycle that is ultimately all for a beautiful purpose. So what comes to mind when you think about how this can bring some more compassion into understanding what kind of part of the process we're internally in? Yeah, I think it's really helpful to know not only who am I and what am I, but where am I, right? Where am I at right now? And in what stage am I in? And when you can relate to the various stages, one, it lets you know, okay, this is, yeah, it's part of a process and I'm in the mix. I'm in the alchemy.

And the, you know, the negative of that is like, it's not comfortable. The positive of that is that transformation's happening. And it's going to lead to something better if you participate with it rather than resist it. And so the more you can be compassionate towards yourself, rather than beating yourself up about the fact that you're going through change right now, you can be like, well, this is actually, I'm in the alchemy. And but when I know what these stages of the alchemical process are and I know where I am in that process, then I can know what's next. and if I know what's next and then what comes down the line from there, then I can be like, okay, what do I need to do to get from here to there? How can I keep moving forward through the alchemical process

rather than getting stuck in it because I'm resisting it too much, right? Or I'm beating myself up about it or I'm wondering why this is all happening to me. It's like the universe is trying to help you grow and evolve and transform so that you can really, you know, achieve your greater beauty in life and your greater purpose in life. And so it's like we have to take that more, empowered approach and become the alchemist of your own life rather than just sort of being the passenger and letting it happen to you. Because if you just let it happen to you and you think of

yourself as a victim to life, then you're not really going to get all the way through it. Right. It's only when you take your power back and realize, oh, I can participate with this. I can harness this energy of change and I can, you know, be more intentional with how I direct it. then you're going to start making really great strides in your life and breaking through. Yeah, we have such a, it's like an Instacart Uber Eats mentality for our own growth where we want it instantly, you know. And I do believe that we can open ourselves up and have spontaneous permissions for people experiencing disease and have big shifts in small periods of time. But it also is important to reflect on the purpose, each part of the cycle and process plays. because like one of the last phases before the butterfly is born,

you were mentioning how that struggle was necessary, and if somebody came and helped it at that particular time, it would not have developed a strength necessary for it to flourish into its full potential. And I think about how, in my own personal journey, and I'm sure in years and everybody who's listening, there were previous struggles in our life that we were going through, where if somebody came and helped us,

probably like we have wanted to in the moment, we would not have developed the faculties and the strength necessary for whatever is coming next in our life. our life. And so struggle as a privilege in that aspect. 100%. And, you know, the Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius put it that the obstacle is the way. That, you know, by taking those obstacles and those struggles head on, rather than trying to avoid them or shortcut them or run away from them, by taking head on, you do become stronger. And in meeting the challenges of life, you discover resources and capabilities within yourself.

that you would have never discovered otherwise. You would have never known that you were capable of it. You would have never even known that you had that gift or that ability had it not been for the challenge. And then sometimes the challenge is just making, it's forcing you to rise above. And in that in that push, you know, they say, what is it? Necessity is the generator of all innovation. We reinvent and we become something greater than what we were before. So I agree with you that there is sort of this cultural mindset in our modern day that's so used to everything being done at the push of a button that we should also be able to have that magic pillar, that, you know, magic bullet that just is or the one size fits all that's just going to be this is the thing that's going to solve all my problems.

But it's not that simple. We're not that simple. We're very complex, multifaceted, multidimensional beings. And we have much greater capacity, much greater potential than what we're currently made. manifesting and the universe is trying to get us, you know, in spirit, you know, is trying to push us in some way to evolve towards what it is we have the potential to become. And then we have a much greater purpose to fulfill. And I believe that anyway is that there is purpose to it all.

And we're going to be far better off getting to that place in our life where we're ready to work with it and put in the effort and have some discipline and be consistent and not try to take the shortcut road or like step around and bypass things because when you bypass you're cheating yourself of foundational um strengths and capabilities that you need ultimately to serve you when you're getting into fulfilling your greater purpose it's such a liberating perspective to recognize how all of nature is hardwired to reach us full potential as long as it's in the right environment you know and our own like aligning ourselves with our own nature is will allow us to more ease attract what's meant for us

and become who are meant to in these aspects. And I feel like if we decide we want to live in truth, that means that we need to face off with all the parts of ourselves that are a lie or are not true and all the things we believe that are falsehoods. And that's hardly ever a glamorous process. You know, and I think that personal growth

can be seen as this glamorized thing because we're seeing everyone's highlight real. We're seeing everyone's butterfly, you know? And yeah, I just want to get your perspective on how we honor those past survival strategies, these things that we need to let go of. Like so much of growth is a lot more of losing in some aspect. And of course, from the perspective of the absolute,

we're not losing anything, but from the experience of the relative, we're losing a lot more in times. And it feels like we're gaining. Yeah, I would say you're sacrificing versus losing. And there's a difference. So, you know, honoring what strategies worked for you to get you to a certain point in life, which is better than where you were before, right?

And that served me to a point. And yet sometimes that thing that served me in the past can become the impediment to my continued growth into the future. And when you reach that place, you can honor it by saying, okay, thank you for serving me and getting me to this place. Now that I've got this figured out, it's time for me to grow in new ways. and I can honor that that past strategy, but I don't, you know,

the key is to not stay attached to what worked for you, you know, especially when those methods that worked for you were your way of like kind of running in survival. Like it might have gotten you and it helped you survive and maybe even get ahead in some ways, but, you know,

there comes a point where that became too much of a egoic strategy that we have to let it go to really rise to our full potential. And so it's like I'm sacrificing this. Now sacrifice, people sometimes don't understand the true meaning of it. Sacrifice means to make sacred. Sacrifice, you know, it's where to make it sacred by offering it up to the divine, if you will. And I'm surrendering this thing. So as an offering of something I value, but I recognize that, you know, there's something greater calling me forward. So it's like a humbling of the ego before, you know, a much higher source that we want to move towards an honor. And there is no growth without sacrifice, right? So every step of growth is going to require

sacrifice of some kind. Maybe we're sacrificing the lesser for the greater. Maybe we're letting go of like bad behaviors in order to start embracing good behaviors. For example, we're letting go of, you know, some addiction in order to, you know, have a better quality of life or these types of things. But sometimes the sacrifices are actually like, I actually have to sacrifice things I value. Like maybe I have to sacrifice some time, you know, personal time or living a normal life

so that I can achieve something even greater than just the normal, you know, kind of average person. And when you talk about our nature, yeah, our nature left to, this is an alchemical philosophy. nature left to its own, it will evolve and grow and transform in time, but it'll be a really slow process. Like, it's nature left to its own devices is a very, very slow process. That's what Darwinian evolution is all about, right? But nature aided by human creativity and intelligence

and knowledge and so forth. So the alchemists would say nature aided by man is going to be accelerated in its transformational process. So when we bring our creative and intelligent and abilities in and work with nature, we can speed up its evolution. And that's what alchemy is all about. So it's about ultimately rising above, we have what we call our first nature and our second nature, right? Our first nature is more like our animal instinctual way of being, which is easy. And, you know, it's just, it's our default position, if you will. It's just the instinctual way. And it's the part of us that tends to kind of be in the comfort zone. Our second nature is something we have to develop, right? It's something we have to push ourselves to grow, to educate,

to become more skillful at, to get your 10,000 hours at doing that thing. And then it becomes second nature. And when you can harness yourself to pursue your second nature more so than default to your first nature, that's when you're growing, right? That's when you're really transforming and you are becoming like the alchemist in your life. Whether it's like you want to play piano and you got to learn how to do it and put in all the hours of practice or whether you want to become an amazing like athlete or you want to become an astronaut, whatever it is, you know, that's the second nature, something greater than what we were given as our first nature. We have to cultivate and develop into it. And that's where transformation really happens

versus just aligning with our first nature. Yeah. that was great I think as you experienced that process too it it helps us prioritize the devotion towards that that inner fire because we can see how

we can see the fruits of our previous pain or fire transmutation process the fruits that it's spared and so we know that the challenges that arise or the opportunities for growth can be perceived as that

instead of just resistance continually to life and existence around us and ancient texts throughout for thousands of years and the yoga philosophy you talk about, you know, Tumo or the various different words and techniques that refer to this inner fire, the ability to purify impurities and emotional blockages and whatnot.

And so any thoughts you have there on the inner alchemical process and what it means to sort of be an alchemist in our own, you know, internal life? Well, first of all, you've got to find what you love and find what you're passionate about. and when you find that thing that, you know, I love this, this inspires me, this is like I'm super passionate about this, that becomes its own fire that can, that can motivate you, that can drive you, that kind of propels you to pursue it. And it's purely out of interest and, and,

and you can dive deep into it and, you know, you'll find that like it just, it, it thrills you. You know, it fills you with energy when you pursue that thing versus it draining you. And that, so it adds to your fire, if you will. So that's definitely a part of it in terms of like, um, what motivates you to move forward. And, and, and, but you also, people have to watch out for falling into apathy. Because if you fall into apathy, like, you're just like, I'm not passionate about anything. I don't have motivation to do anything. That's a, that's a very dark place to be.

And there's no fire there, right? So fire, uh, internally, if you will, is the thing that, that motivates us, that moves us. and it compels us to go in some direction and apply ourselves and pursue something that's exciting that makes life worth living for. And so you've got to find that thing that makes life worth living for. And, you know, I think personally, like I felt that through pursuing a spiritual connection, that that brought fire as well. Like there's something greater, you know, there's something hidden. There's a mystery to be, you know, revealed that can be known. and the more we cultivate a connection to the spirit,

the more we cultivate a connection to our own deepest self, the more we will feel that filled with that inspiration. And so that spiritual practice, whatever tradition, you know, every tradition has different methods, but most of the mystical traditions ultimately all come back to the same kinds of things, right? Knowing thyself, having a personal connection, with the divine, feeling a sense of awe, being humble, right? There's these same kind of

essences and principles that come out of it, these keys, if you will, for life that come out. And when we have that connection to spirit, it really gives you the fire that inspires you, that motivates you, that makes you want to do something greater, do something positive, do something meaningful, do something in service, you know, to a greater good versus just being focused on yourself and your own problems. Is there a period of life for you that stands out as the most sort of transformative, alchemical in that way where you maybe resisted it at first, but you could like in hindsight, look back, see how that was like the spawn of your biggest growth?

I feel, okay, so there is certainly the point where I went through my own, what I would call self-initiation, which was during that time in grad school, where I realize, okay, something's got to change here because this is not like how I usually am and this is, and I need to find that joy again. So that pursuit, like actively realizing something needs to change and actively applying myself to start making a change in my life and bring different aspects of life back in. And ultimately when I realized spirituality was a major key and I dove deep into it and I really applied myself. Like that was a real transformative point in my life. So that was in 2000, right? And so I've been on my path now for 25, 26 years. And since then,

I feel like I've been through many different transformational points along the way, really because of my work with the mystery school tradition. Like in every initiation that I've received was another catalyst. It was another big transformational point. And there are places, you know, along the way where you face fears and you wonder am I you know am I enough to do this and you have to overcome that internal battle and then there's other place where you face your doubts and you're like is this really true and is this this really be real and you know the doubts I mean that was like the big struggle for me early on going from a very scientific way of thinking and kind of leaning into the metaphysical world and it was like the skepticism of the science that was programmed into me you know had a lot of

doubt that I had to struggle through early on. And then, you know, even, even coming, shifting to the point where it was like, okay, I'm just going to teach, work with people one-on-one or teach in small groups to, you know, shifting to, it's time to play on a bigger stage, if you will, and get on Gaia and, you know, speak at big events. And, you know, you always have these internal hurdles that you got to overcome. But I would say for me personally that when I really made the commitment to myself to make my spiritual development and personal development be a priority in my life and not just the pursuit of knowledge and career and money and, you know, typical matrix stuff, that was a massive turning point. But then every time along the way, it's like you have to

keep making that commitment again. You have to recommit to it multiple times because otherwise it's easy to get to a place where you're just like, I'm good, you know, I've reached a good level and that's good enough, right? And then it's like that's that inner voice saying, don't keep pushing. It's like the ego keeps coming up and you got to quiet it again and have that mastery over yourself

and push yourself to the next level. And when you do, sky's the limit. There really is no limit. It's really just your own mind and what you believe is possible for yourself and what you're willing to, not just what you believe,

but what you're willing to put your efforts towards. That's what determines how far we can go with things. So what do you think is happening at the more subtle levels as one goes through their own inner transformation journey, particularly in DNA? I'm curious your thoughts on what constitutes the potentially one or two percent of protein coding DNA versus the other that we, you know, label the junk DNA, the thoughts around how light and DNA can play with each other. Yeah, what are your thoughts?

So in our DNA, yeah, there's like what science tends to know right now, at least, about what it understands of the DNA since the human genome project and so forth is they understand the genes and the genes that code for the amino acids and the proteins and that all build up the body, the physical body, but then that's only 1% of the total DNA sequence. Then there's another 4% that they say these are like the coding instructions. It's a stop and start codes. It's like kind of what tells the switches to turn on or off, for example. That's so that so we have 1% and 4% says 5% of our DNA and then the rest of it 95% they call it non-coding and science doesn't currently really get it. They don't understand what it is. Not mainstream science anyways.

They used to call it junk. They don't call it junk anymore. They just call it non-coding. So they have a less charged word for it now. And whoever came up with junk in the first place is quite audacious. Yes, exactly. It shows once again the arrogance of science, right? But but but But what's fascinating is that in the human genome, there's more non-coding sections of the DNA than there is in various animal species or a banana. You know, there's less of the non-coding sections. So there's clearly something important about these non-coding sections that is important to more intelligent and advanced forms of life.

And so there's some alternative science that's happened like in Japan and in Europe and in Russia that has talked about, that's actually gone in to investigate these non-coding sections. And they've seen that there is evidence that the non-coding sections of our DNA are used to transmit and receive coherent light

that they call biophotons. And so they believe that this non-coding section is in charge of that, the generation, transmission, and reception of bio photons. And it's like this light, this coherent light is used like an information superhighway that operates at the speed of light within the DNA to communicate

and really send the signals rather than it just relying on chemical kind of signaling. So that's like Fritz Pop, Albert Fritzpaw kind of discovered biophotons, and there's some Japanese scientists who looked into that as well. And then there's a Russian scientist, Dr. Peter Gariev, who's none of them are with us anymore, but they were alive in the last couple decades. and Dr. Peter Garyev also looked at these non-coding sections, and he saw that the DNA is able to almost like receive language modulated upon coherent light into the DNA and respond to it.

And when linguists kind of analyze the code, the letter sequence of the DNA in the non-coding sections, there's actually more repetition, there's a little more order to it, there's more, you know, they used to call it a stutter. Like you'd have the same letter over and over and over again. So scientists would call it a stutter. But then the linguist came along and analyzed and they said, actually, it resembles more of a human language with syntax and grammar and all of that than the coding sections do. It's almost like the ability for humans to have language, spoken language, was almost like programmed, if you will, into these non-coding sections of the DNA.

And then Dr. Peter Gariav also saw that, like, they put the DNA into a vacuum chamber, and they shined coherent light, like laser light or LED light on it, and then saw that the DNA took that light and it actually organized it around its DNA double helic structure. And so it ordered the light. You know, it took it in,

and it kind of like your DNA almost like takes light in and it processes it and it structures it and it makes it, it uses it somehow. And then the more interesting phenomenon than that was that they then took the DNA out of the vacuum chamber, but they didn't otherwise disturb the vacuum chamber. They sent light through it again. And even when the DNA wasn't in there physically anymore, it was almost like it left an energetic blueprint or it had structured the vacuum itself. that when they shine the light through,

the light still formed according to that double helix. So it's almost like your DNA has a way of communicating with the quantum vacuum and structuring it. It's like this bridge from the quantum to the physical, to the macroscopic. So there's some super fascinating things

that are there within our DNA. We even have within our genes. We have the same gene in our DNA in the human DNA as a salamander has that it uses to regenerate limbs. So we have huge capacity that is within us that is yet to be understood and discovered within our DNA.

There's possibilities for superintelligence, for super regeneration and healing, for super immunity. You know, all of these things are possible within our DNA. It's just like we're still in a process of awakening and evolving into being able to turn on these abilities. Now, science today wants to use, genetic engineering and CRISPR sort of technology to try and bioengineer and hack our way into

superhuman designer baby stuff and it's already happening in China. So it's coming. So just be prepared for that. But I believe from a metaphysical perspective that we have had ancient spiritual technology such as, you know, activations and initiations that turn on our DNA. And In the Kabbalistic tradition, our DNA actually relates to the tree of life. And the tree of life is a sacred geometric blueprint for our DNA. You know, it's like the scaffolding that the DNA kind of binds around. And so we have methods of going in and really turning on those codes within our DNA. It first starts as a spiritual blueprint awakening, that then, you know, as we take the intuitive actions, you know, that as our mind and our consciousness awakens and we become more self-aware, we start taking.

different actions. We start making different choices. We start living in a different way. You start having different habits of what you eat and consume and expose yourself to. And all of that affects your epigenetics and the switches of, you know, that are responsive to the local environment within our body, all of it starts to shift and it will then integrate its way into your physical DNA. So many doors were opened up from that. And if we're solely relying on our senses to inform us about reality, it's always going to ultimately be futile because we have this small perception capacity. And so what do you think of extrasensory perception, how with our physical senses we're observing obviously less than 1% of the electromagnetic spectrum?

Where if we're exploring these possibilities of latent potential hidden in our DNA and the cells in our body, that just opens up a big mysterious door of what's possible within being human and also what, you know, yoga traditions have referred to as cities and different potentials, which are very, very philosophically exciting to talk about. And I think we can shun it away so quickly if we don't logically know how, you know, these things would work. But what does that open up for you in terms of possibility and your thoughts around exorosensory perception?

Well, it's definitely a thing. It's real. And, you know, so, yeah, we're only visibly seen. seeing 1% of the electromagnetic spectrum, but then we're only consciously using maybe 10% of our brain capacity to be consciously aware of it. The rest is subconscious. So you're really only seeing 0.1%

because you're only consciously perceiving 10% of that 1%. So what we think we're experiencing as reality is like the snowflake on the tip of the iceberg, right? Not just seeing, we can hear a broader range and we can maybe feel a broader range. Like I think, you know, we see one octave, we hear 10 octaves, we feel 10 octaves. And then, you know, smell and taste is, you know, very individual.

But they're all vibrational energies, right? And we know that there's vibrational energies on either side of the spectrum of the range that we can perceive. And so, for example, we know that dogs hear certain sounds that we don't hear. And we know the cats see certain things that we don't see because you just watch them.

And you're like, what are you looking at? What are you hearing, you know? The mantis shrimp has 13 cones of color. what the hell is that look like? And the octopus has like eight or nine brains and it's like, what? So, yeah, there's these other ranges. And yet, so there's what are we trained to believe and perceive? Right?

Because a lot of times our beliefs filter what we're perceiving through our senses. Other times, it's like how much of your brain capacity are you consciously accessing versus how much of it is happening subconsciously or unconsciously. Yeah, this is referred to, cognitively referred to as relevance realization to. like our subconscious filtering systems that are gatekeepers to both before what we even consciously experience and perceive is

so we're like looking through a lens through a lens through a lens and very veiled reality. Yeah. So what some people call extrasensory perception is really just people who've learned to broaden their range of their five physical senses.

And we know that that's possible and when you look at like someone who becomes blind, right? They're limited and their ability to see. so then they have to have extra sensory perception through hearing and touch and smell and other things. Or if they're death, you know,

they have to learn to read lips. And, you know, so there are ways to train your physical, neurological senses to have a broader range. But you have to exercise them. Yeah, I think... David Eagleman is doing a really interesting work at this. Like he, with a study of individuals,

helped train them, develop a new sense of sensing the electromagnetic field of the earth and where a true north is. And they were able to, like, develop that awareness and it was verified studies. Yeah, well, in both in your inner ear and in your pineal gland, you have these microcrystals of calcite that have piezoelectric effects that are used to have a sense of orientation and a sense of connection to the magnetic fields.

And, you know, most people have it, they just aren't always aware that that's an ability, you know, because it's so subtle. But you learn to tune into this more subtle frequencies, if you will, and you can start to perceive more of you. Just bring your awareness to them, right? So awareness starts by caring about it. Like if you care about it, you're going to pay attention to it. If you're paying attention to it, you're going to be more aware of it.

And then there's exercising, right? So you can exercise your senses to broaden your perception. And this is something that we teach people to do is how to broaden the senses. And when you exercise your senses, you can actually increase your conscious use of your brain capacity from 10% to 20%. and just by doing these exercises. So that's one piece. Then there's what we call the biofield, right? We are not just physical beings.

We are energetic beings. We have biomegagnetic. We have eetheric. We have all these different layers of energy within our field that surrounds us. And if you, again, if you start to pay attention to that, if you become like, if you start to just tune in to the subtleties and there are ways to start feeling and perceiving these energy fields that are around

us. And the more you exercise that, the more those will also turn on for you. So, for example, when I learned to do healing work, energy healing work like Reiki, I learned to do something called a life activation through the mystery school training. And as I did it more and more and more, I went from not being able to perceive the energy to now I really can perceive the energy. So it's an exercising process. And then on top of that, there is quantum consciousness where consciousness is not individualized.

You know, there's in the quantum realm, it's like we're all, it's one mind. It's a unified field. And we can have non-local phenomenon, non-temporal phenomenon happening where you have ESP, for example, or, you know, I think most people have experienced where they were thinking of somebody and then all of a sudden they were getting a call or a text message from that same person that they were just thinking of. I mean, that's an example of ESP. And we all have these abilities. We just have to exercise them. Yeah. I also have a lot of musician friends who speak about that too. Michael Jackson and Prince were always quoted going back and forth about, you know, staying up late nights in the studio because they were going to attune and catch a song that was in the field before the other.

And how they're, you know, the sea of information and non-visible world that is just beyond our sense of self that we take advantage of every day, knowingly too, through different radio frequencies and Wi-Fi and all of this. But then getting deeper into the subtleties, it is fascinating. and I'm interested what a society would look like in previously, if there have been some in the past where from birth, these things were not only like known about, but practiced, studied, strengthened, and what a civilization would look like that was, you know,

full-blown taking up the capacity of their potential in that aspect. So it might seem like a random tangent, but my friend asked me the other day of like a forecast, like what the next 10 years, what do I think it's going to look like? And I jokingly said, technological cyborgs and autistic superheroes. And some of those autistics who don't even speak

are completely telepathic, like 100% accuracy telepathic ability. The reason I bring it up is because we see how when there's other senses that are impaired and these studies that are happening with autistic children and their ability for all these extrasensory perceptions and cognitive capacities. And it's just fascinating to see what's on the horizon

of human development. Yeah, yeah, it's amazing. I mean, I recently came across the telepathy tapes that are talking about the non-speaking autistics and it was like remarkable to hear their stories and to know that this, you know, it's fantastic that this research is finally being done and being recognized that there's just actually

a new human capability that's coming through almost as a reflection for the rest of humanity or almost like as a remedy for the fact that humanity's gotten so, caught up in the physical and the ego and relying so much on speech and sight and all of these things and and and not developing this capacity that's really within everybody but it's just we haven't developed it and yeah I mean there have been spiritual societies on the planet in the past that you know even shamanic times I mean everyone was sort of brought into you know their

education was around mythology and they had rights of initiation as part of their growing up stages and, you know, they learn to be more in tune with nature and read the signs. And it's really only in our technological world in the last hundred years that we've really lost that understanding of those ways because we've gotten more and more modernized, removed more and more away from ancient traditions and mythologies and rights of initiation. And I think we've discarded some really important rites of passage that humans are meant to be going through by discarding the practices of initiation, like proper, you know, traditions that had it in ancient lineages of initiation. And I think that there's also plenty of evidence on the planet

that showed 11,000 years ago and beyond that, that we had some ancient civilizations on this planet that were able to make these magnificent temples and structures and have them like perfectly aligned with the stars and the solstices and equinoxes. And they had some kind of knowledge that we still today can't even replicate. So there had to be, there are markers of definitely advanced civilizations that were achieving a greater human capacity than what we are today,

but somehow we got disconnected from that and now we're having to rediscover it. But if it's a universal principle, it's there for us to be discovering it again. Yeah, yeah. Truth is always there to be rediscovered if forgotten for a period of time. It brings to mind, as you were, you know,

said that you, initiations and studies into the, you know, different mystery school teachings and understanding of vibration, frequency, prana, chi, whatever words we want to use there, which again can be, like the term razor vibration can be used in that context we were using earlier, which I don't really like the terms high or lower, good, bad.

I prefer coherence, coherent energy, and something's either incoherent or coherent. When somebody walks into a party and you get a quote, unquote, bad vibe, that's incoherent energy when we're experiencing disease, that's incoherence within her body. And so how do you think about what prana, what chi is, and aligning ourselves to experience more of a coherent sense

of mind, body, and spirit? So I think of prana or chi as a life force energy that's very close to the physical, but then there's also higher levels that kind of come through and it manifests itself at different frequency levels, if you will. And that the more that we use breath, right, the breath is the breath of life. And that there's so much life force that can come in just by being really focused on

breathing, properly breathing, and drawing in that energy being intentional that you're, because it responds not just to breathing, but it responds to intent. And you're bringing your attention and awareness to it as whether you're doing, you know, some kind of pranayama or you're doing chigong or any of these sort of practices where it's focused presence and breath work and movement and uh you know various mudras and so forth that help you know create the right flow and channels and that's all like internal body alchemy if you will and we're learning to harness the essences of the body and use the breath and the movement as a way of circulating things

and creating that distillation process and, you know, the endocrine system, which connects into the chakras, are the glands that create all the hormones, which then, you know, become these molecules that can ultimately create transcendent states and experiences. When I see that somebody is like ascending, if you will,

their consciousness is expanding, you know, meaning they're aware of this, but they're also where, of this. You know, so it's not a higher or lower. It's an expansion of more holistic, more all encompassing, more awareness of the greater field rather than just the myopic kind of way of looking at things. And coherence is super important. I mean, but people can be coherent in a negative frequency, meaning they're so focused on that negative thing that that's all that they're thinking about, you know, and they're going to be very coherent, but it's a, it's a, it's a

that's not necessarily going to be positive for their body or for the people there around. So the different frequency levels, you know, if we just look at the chakras, for example, each one we often associate it with different color on the rainbow spectrum because that represents their frequency from like a purple, which is a higher frequency, down to a red, which is a lower frequency. And then each of those chakras have a different sort of correspondence to a different quality, a different, you know, the spiritual being more, you know, higher elevation and a sense of divine connection, the heart being more like relational and kindness and love and, you know, coming down to the root and it's going to be more about the physicality and, you know, being grounded,

but also like pursuing the lusts of life. We can shift into coherence in any one of those areas, but what we ultimately want is all of them coming into alignment, all of them being opened, on board, operating in a clean way, and then being aligned with each other. And, you know, from an energetic perspective, I would say your central core is clear, right? There's no blockages in the central core where if that energy were to, that prana, that kundalini, whatever, was to rise up, it wouldn't hit any obstruction on its way and it would just be a free flow. But in order for that central core to be clear, we have to have done the emotional. clearing. We have to have done the

healing and the forgiveness work. We have to, you know, we have to have really come to this place of exercising each of those levels. Yeah, I think it's so great that we have a sense of agency to be able to work with the

breath more consciously or continue to work at, have it be an unconscious process where we're not working with it in a way that's going to be more beneficial for our system. When you think of our capacity to work with entrainment neurologically, physiologically, I think it's such an empowering perspective because it gives the power back to us and our ability to take life it back into our own hands in a sense.

So any thoughts you want to share there? Sure. I mean, entrainment is this idea where if you have, just for those who maybe don't know the word, if you have a certain oscillating body, you know, for simplicity, let's just take a tuning fork that you can strike a tuning fork, it'll vibrate at a very particular frequency. If you can bring that near another body that can oscillate at the same frequency, you don't have to have struck that other one just by the proximity, the vibrational travel through the air, and then it'll start to move it, and they'll start to vibrate together in sync. And that is what we call entrainment.

And we are multivibrational beings, right? So we can vibrate at many different capacities. And, but let's say you go out into the city, right? You go out into Los Angeles. It's a bit chaotic. It's kind of crazy, especially if you're on the freeway. And you get a bit frazzled, right? And it's stressful.

And that kind of creates a negative state within your own being, mind, your emotion, your physical. And the way we can take something like entrainment, and it's a tool that is a power that we can take into our own hands where once I, well, one, don't get into road rage, right? You have choice around that, right? So just exercise like, okay, I'm just going to be patient here and I'm just going to be mindful and bless them rather than curse

them. I mean, that's going to go a long way right there. Two, when you get back into your own environment, your own home, like put on harmonious music, right? Use tools like things that stimulate your senses in a positive way to create a positive entrainment field. So putting on some classical music or some meditation music or, you know, doing some aromatherapy, like all of these are ways that we can stimulate our senses with vibrational energy intentionally, they can bring us back into a harmonic state. And then also your thoughts, right? Like Dr. Amoto showed with the water crystals, like your thoughts really can influence the water into being more harmonious or disharmonious.

And so if we're 70% water, your thoughts have a major influence on whether your cells of your body and all the water in your system is going to be in a beautiful and harmonic symmetric state or if it's going to be in a less symmetric state? Yeah, I'm such a big fan on crafting our environment as we create our environment and that our environment creates us in many ways because there is that sense of entrainment happening on a reciprocal fashion, right? So it's like, if we can create an environment in which we're mostly spending, which is our home, to be conducive towards more of those coherent energies and then when we go out in the world, we can be a sense of entrainment, you know, as people have talked about being in the presence of awakened beings alone,

not talking, not working through practice or philosophy, just alone being in the presence of something, that tuning fork starts to affect the vibration of those that are around it. And so, yeah, I think it's just such an important takeaway to craft an environment around you that is conducive. And not only your environment, but who you choose to hang around with. Yeah, it's part of your environment in a sense, too, right? Yeah, and the people are really going to have an influence on each other, right? So you can be the master tuning fork that brings that positive frequency out. But some people may not want to align with that. And there could potentially be conflict or they ab react to, you know, the positive light that you're bringing, if you will. Sometimes light agitates people in their stuckness. And they, you know, you have to kind of choose, okay, do I want to be in that environment? Can I, can I, continue to maintain my own, you know, centeredness and coherence and be in those, you know,

like going to the bar, for example, or the nightclub. I mean, certain environments are going to have an ab reaction on you, depending on your own level of mastery, self-mastery. Or you can choose to go into the yoga studio or the meditation, you know, kind of group or other places. Or you can go and have fun, just have fun, but where it's fun and it's clean and it's pure and it's, you know, it's not really relying on the substances to get people out of their shell, if you will. I have found that it's probably one of the biggest factors in terms of, because of course, like the air that we breathe, the things that we smell, what we see and feel in our environment, these all obviously impact us, but people are very strong influences on energy, right?

And so we can learn how to protect our own energy, but then we can also learn how to be the one who's in training versus just the one who's being entrained. Like choosing to consciously spend time with people who are in that, more of just like that clean energy is so valuable, so needed, and difficult choice at times when you feel like, especially earlier on your journey, you're starting to wake up to these truths and you're surrounded by people who have just no idea about it for better or worse.

And again, it goes back to that point of death and rebirth in terms of relationships. Yeah. and the sacrifice. That's one of those sacrifices sometimes that we make along the way. And, you know, when people hit that point, it can be very, it can be a lonely place. When you were starting to explore and awaken into these things, but your friends and your family are not and they don't get you, it can be very kind of, you can feel a bit isolated. And sometimes we have to let go of old relationships that aren't like aligning, you know,

if they don't, you know, when you talk about entrainment, it's just alignment. Are you going to be supportive of me in this new frequency or this new way of being? Or are you going to try and drag me back into the old way of being? And those who are supportive, like, great, they're ready to continue aligning and being supportive of you as you grow. But those who resent you for it or, you know, try to drag you back into the old dynamics and like, hey, what's wrong with you? Why aren't you doing this? You know, you used to do this. We used to be fun. You know, they kind of make you feel bad for like the fact that you're choosing something different is really because they're not secure with themselves. And so sometimes we have to go through that separation, if you will, that there's

part of the alchemy and we have to make certain sacrifices. And when you do that, you create a new room for and making new choices and aligning with a new group of a new community, if you will, that will get you. So this is all part of the alchemy that we go through on a personal level as we grow and transform and evolve. And, you know, the key to being able to be that person who brings the positive frequency of entrainment into a group is to know their self. Right? The more you know yourself, the more you can maintain your own frequency.

You know who you are. You know your center. And you usually won't have so much attachment to people needing their approval, if you will. And then that allows you to really maintain that frequency that you cultivate in general. for yourself through your own practice and your own choices in life. You've sprinkled many things throughout, but in terms of like what you feel, at least for you personally, have been the most actionable, practical steps for people to practice and experience their interconnectedness in a fragmented world, you know, seemingly at times.

Yeah, what have you seen move the needle the most for people? Well, first of all, it's a dedicated practice that, you know, every day you do something that's just taking some intentional time to connect spirit. for some people, they might do meditation. For some, it might be prayer. For some, it might be some form of ritual or ceremony. For some, it might be mantra work. You know, there's lots of tools.

For some, it might be yoga or chigong. There's a lot of tools. And any of those tools are going to be good. If you're committing time every day, here's the thing is like our foundation in life, our subconscious programming is going to be based on the things we think, say, and do every day. And so it's not the big things.

the little things that you do day by day that really make a huge difference in terms of the strength of your ability to stand in the resonance that you want to create for your life and your ability to hold that regularly even when your challenge is going to be based on what you're doing every day. So I would definitely recommend people have some kind of a spiritual practice every day that they do. And then one of the things that I teach is, you know, we're not just one dimensional beings, right? So one tool isn't usually going to give you the full spectrum of ability to master yourself. So we need multiple tools to learn. For me personally, I love to do various rituals.

You know, like I'm very action-oriented. And, you know, but it's something that I can do. It's a pattern I've created for myself, but that gives me time for that spiritual connection. And I do it every day. I do it twice a day, you know, morning and night so that I can just. have, I can book in my days with that connection to spirit and it really shifts the flow of my energy through my day and it also clears the energy from the day off before I go to bed. And that's like a really big thing that I've made a part of my daily life. Meditation is also like really important

for quieting the mind and getting new intuition and inspiration coming through and clarity coming through. And you know, and then just having some sense of communication with the divine, you know, whether you call it prayer, you call it Richard, whatever you want to call it, having that communication and recognizing that I'm not alone. You know, even if I'm physically alone, I'm not alone. Like this is an intelligent universe that we live in, and there's intelligence all around me.

Even the plants are intelligent. Absolutely. Yeah, it's great. And I think, at least in my experience, committing to like an immersive experience with a deep lineage, whatever the tools are, to truly know and deepen and sink your teeth into a practice. If you like bear so many fruits,

because then you go bringing that back into your daily life and you know what to expect, you know how to keep the guard rails around it, you know what the practice really is. And not that, you know, just searching a five-minute meditation on YouTube is not beneficial in some context, but deepening and really getting the most out of that time is amazing. 100%.

I 100% agree with you. You know, when I originally was on my search, I was just sort of doing a little bit of this, a little bit of that. It was kind of skirting the surface of things and I would take the pieces that resonated for me and then discard the rest of it because it didn't resonate. And I just sort of formulated my own little philosophy of life. But when it came time to really grow and to go beyond what I could kind of create for myself, it really took like finding a path. And in finding a path, it was finding teachers who had walked that path longer and who could guide you along the way.

And I think that when people try to do everything self-guided and get everything off the internet, not that there could be some good things out there, but there could also be some other things you might end up dabbling into that could actually be harmful to you. So you really need to have a guide who knows the rules of the road, so to speak. They know the pitfalls. They've been there before. They can give you the, like, I wouldn't go down that way if I were you. Like, here's the better path or better sort of way to do this, if you will. and it helps you avoid those pitfalls.

I often see that life is like a maze. You know, there's dead ends, there's things that'll kind of come out from behind certain corners, and you have to know the map, right? And by following a lineage or a deeper path, it has a deep tradition that goes back farther, farther than the new age,

you know, at least a couple hundred years, if not a couple thousand years. They have tried and true and tested modalities and methods, and they have understanding that's been passed down through the generations that, you know, they know what pitfalls to avoid. They've been down that road before and they say, well, that's not really going to work out so well.

Try this. You know, this, we know this works. And then you can walk a tried and true path and you don't have to grope your way through the maze anymore. It's like they can help you navigate your way through the maze and you'll get there faster. And so I feel that, you know, like a ritual, for example, should always be handed down through an oral direct transmission from the teacher to the student

versus you like taking it out of a book or off the internet or off some YouTube video. There's an energetic transmission that comes with these lineages as well, and they're going to work better for you when you've received it in the proper way and you have the proper keys. There is not just knowledge. There's also an energy. There's a link that comes from that tradition that helps make it work properly for you. you. Great. I agree fullheartedly. What's one question you haven't been asked in an interview that you maybe wish you have? So one of the questions that I have never been asked that I think is a good question

is what of all the things that I've achieved and accomplished and created in my life? What's the thing that you're most proud of and why? And I have created a lot of things in my life from doing my PhD in physics to you know, really becoming a teacher of the universal hermetic grade Kabbalah system and revising, you know, there's books and so forth coming. But of all the things that I've created, the thing I'm most proud of to date is something that is actually a relatively new birthing that my husband and I co-created. And it is the I-Quantam event that is called The Awakening. It's the first step called Iquantam 1.

The Awakening is part of a seven. step journey that we are curating. And in that, we have put together our creative abilities, my quantum knowledge, his creativity and visual. And we've worked with some other collaborators with an animator and a musician and a producer and everything we've created this. Amazing, both a guided meditation that is called the quantum meditation technique that is available. It's really trippy. Don't do any drugs. Don't be mentally unstable if you use it because it's really trippy.

So like if you're like sound and sober, go for it. It's an amazing experience that gets you into the quantum gap, if you will, and that that stillness point that we talked about earlier. And then the other thing that's more part of our actual immersion weekend called I Quantum and the awakening is there's an open eye meditation. And it's this amazing journey from our origins, even prior to the Big Bang, all the way to us here now.

And this very informed by my background in Kabbalah and quantum physics and hermetics and all of this. And it's just this incredible journey of remembering who you are and where you come from and the potential that's within you. And yeah, of all the things I've created, I'm most proud of this because it is truly going to awaken people when they watch and experience it. And it's a thing of just pure beauty, pure beauty and goodness. Amazing.

Well, I love when the culmination of our path kind of, yeah, it cultivates into an offering that we feel like is most aligned to support people and how we uniquely have the capacity to. So it's really exciting. What's one thing you wish to remind people of more now than ever? You know, I think that what's important for people to realize, if I can just say that, is that, one, you have so much more potential in you than you've ever been taught. Believe in yourself. If you can just start believing in yourself, then you can progress from belief to knowing, right? You can then start to know thyself. And that is like, you know, the ancient mystery traditions all said, know thyself. Right, because you are the microcosm of the macrocosm. Like the macrocosm is in you as above so below and the divine is in you. And if you want to know the divine and you want to know that greater potential, you got to look inside. And far too many people these days are looking outside.

They want something that's outside of them to be their solution. They want the magic bullet. They want this, you know, the shortcut. They want that teacher to be the person that gives me my enlightenment. fix me, you know, that's not the way to know thyself. You can be guided, right? And you can be aided along your path with different tools. But ultimately, the answers are inside of you.

The potential is inside of you. And the only way to awaken that potential is to use the tools in your life and make, like, awaken yourself through the inner work versus trying to trying to have something from the outside hack in. And we, so, so there's, we're in this age of biohacking right now. And, you know, not that there couldn't be some great, you know, new modalities and methods and supplements and all of that kind of stuff out there, but it's not the answer, right? The answer is within. And, you know, when we talk about your quantum potential, like, you have to get to the very core foundation of your being, which is in every atom of your being. It's in every particle of your

being. It's not outside. It's in you. and and it's through learning to tap into the inner resources. And as you cultivate and develop through your own practices and having the right tools and the right knowledge that can guide you, you can awaken those inner resources in a way that now you have the key, you know the door, you can unlock it anytime you want. You don't need anything outside of you to do it for you. And that's when you'll have like created the new,

neural networks within your being that allow those pathways to stay open all the time versus only when you've used the outside fix. These are all, it's all should be endogenous, not exogenous. And so I really truly believe that people need to look within again, other than getting so caught up in whatever fad is out there. But yet find the proper guidance system that can support you in a way, awakening to your true potential versus thinking that your potential is outside, you know, has to have something outside of you to awaken it for you.

So there's a lot of tools out there. But not all those tools are going to really support you in awakening to your true potential. And so just remember that the knowledge is inside and you just need to remember it, right? So you just need to reawaken what you already know. The power is inside. You just need to activate it. and all the potential is inside of you to have that beautiful life, to have that beautiful connection,

and to achieve your purpose, and the answers you're going to be inside. Such an empowering share. I mean, thank you so much for that. The perspective of remembering versus, like, external acquisition. And I think it orientes herself different, and it allows us to go inside and, and discover the answers that are already there

instead of fighting for, with control and that kind of, again, Newtonian way of navigating reality. It's a liberating perspective, but it's already there. I found that most of the most essential keys of enlightenment were things that once they were like said, it was like, yeah, I know that,

but I needed to be reminded of that, right? It's like I forgot or I know it, but I wasn't living it. You know, it's that. And it's all, they're very beautiful. They're very simple and they're very practical. But, you know, we just, we get so disconnected from ourselves, not just ourselves at a personality level, but our true self. And that's what we need to reclaim. It reminds me of Emerson's quote, which I've quoted before, that in the mind of geniuses,

we find our own neglected thoughts. And it refers to what we were speaking earlier. If the universe is truly mental, then we all have access to this field. Of course, when somebody shares a truth or deeper knowing, we can verify that within ourselves because we also have access to it. We may not have consciously come to it

as soon as somebody else. But that's what this whole journey is. And like so much of your work is what I do with my podcast is like bringing forth back into conscious awareness, these things that we haven't paid enough awareness too. Yeah, I love that. Beautiful. And trusting, learning to trust yourself again. I think a lot of people disconnect from what they intuitively know because they don't trust themselves. And if they can just start to have a better relationship with themselves and keep their word with themselves and start

showing themselves that they can trust themselves, it'll shift everything. And, you know, so we kind of shift, we progress from belief to knowing. from knowing to understanding, from understanding to wisdom, and from that wisdom to our divinity, these stepping stones. And this is the path. You know, I mean, this is what I help teach people, you know, through multiple ways, whether it's through like the quantum mindset work with the quantum learning academy that my husband and I have started,

or whether it's with the modern mystery school work and the Kabbalah and the alchemy and the hermetics and so forth. there's many ways to kind of navigate it, but the essence of them is always the same. But it definitely helps to have that guidance, if you will. And I think what you've done with your podcast and exposing people to, you know, some really great resources is also a huge service.

Thank you. Thank you for the opportunity to be on it with you. Thank you. Yeah, it's, I enjoy getting to be a curator of all these touch points and doorways and did different paths for people that resonate for people differently. Like, you know, the Kabbalistic or hermetic path

or yogic philosophy and understanding, like, perhaps because of whatever you want to say in previous lives or ancestral or genetic memory or just life current incarnated desires. Like, we all have our paths that we resonate more towards. And there are so many bountiful paths that are exciting to explore. And so that's what I've seen you do in your work, too.

And we haven't really even dove too much into hermone. medicine or the Kabbalah. Maybe next time. Yeah, yeah. I think maybe next time, but these touchpoints serve as just that for people. So this was an epic conversation. Yeah, I loved it. Thank you. We think we did it.

You asked great questions and you have great input and, you know, share and resource that you also have. So thank you for the opportunity. Yeah. Thank. Thanks. Pleasure is mine. And we'll leave links for what you mentioned you're up to as well down in the

description where people can find you in upcoming courses and everything and anything else to go it just you know remember who you are and believe in your potential it's a great thing to close out the know they self podcast with and so it is everybody thanks for tuning into this episode i love you we love you until next time be well