Know Thyself - E147 - Zach Bush: 6 Powerful Lessons Nature Teaches Us About Being Human

Episode Date: May 20, 2025

Zach Bush unpacks how moving from individualism to interconnectedness can heal both ourselves and the planet. This episode delves into breaking the cycle of consumerism, remembering the innate intelligence of life, and embracing the changes that come with personal growth. Through powerful metaphors-like death as a way home to ourselves-and reflections on the seasonality of life, Zach reveals how stress and challenge are essential for true growth. This conversation offers a hopeful vision for the future and practical insights for coming home to ourselves and the earth.Try Pique Life tea and save 20% for life & get a free frother:https://www.piquelife.com/KnowThyselfAndrés Book Recs: https://www.knowthyself.one/books___________0:00 Intro1:39 From Individualism to Interconnectedness 7:12 Breaking the Cycle of Consumerism12:33 Remembering Our Innate Intelligence17:52 The Transformation Zach Has Been Going Through21:45 Metaphor of Death to Bring Us Home to Ourselves25:54 Embracing the Seasonality of Life33:30 Ad: PiqueLife36:40 Relationship Between Stress and Growth39:49 Unlocking Our Unique Dharma44:58 Creating Space for Stillness & Seeing the Beauty of Life53:18 Prevailing Message for Humanity57:47 Fear of Death Limits Our Capacity for Life1:03:00 Prediction for the Next 5 Years1:08:30 Conclusion___________Episode Resources: https://www.instagram.com/zachbushmd/https://zachbushmd.komi.io/https://intelligenceofnature.com/?_ef_transaction_id=&oid=1&affid=460https://www.instagram.com/andreduqum/https://www.instagram.com/knowthyself/https://www.youtube.com/@knowthyselfpodcasthttps://www.knowthyself.oneListen to the show:Spotify: https://spoti.fi/4bZMq9lApple: https://apple.co/4iATICX

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SuvW, German engineered for all. to appreciate the miracle of life, and for that we have so desecrated that life. We try to fix our kids and there are problems. We try to fix our house. We try to fix our companies. We try to fix our products. That mentality is getting away from the fact

that there is an emergent beauty, and there's an emergent creation force coming through humanity that is inevitable. When you get 10 birds in a flock, they line up in a V, but you put 10,000 birds together. We'll start to express sacred geometries at the scales of a kilometer. This phenomenon of becoming creator is already inherent

in your biology. Everything's tempering. There is no such thing as death. There's only rebirth. There's not a such thing as an end point in nature. There's only the recreation. As we go into seasonality and as we start to embrace the friction, we're going to grow quickly. We need to stop trying to escape to the sacredness. And we need to start to realize that every place is sacred. And we need to start to manifest that sacredness within every part of our bodies. And if we do, the frictions that are currently killing us are creating so much pain will diminish to just the change of interaction. My friend, Zach Bush, welcome back to the show. I'm so thrilled to be here. Thank you, Andre, for having me. I thought as it's very in alignment with your work and also my area of passion as a

framework for this conversation to pull from some core themes of nature's wisdom and how there are so many parallels to unlocking our inner nature, discovering that embodying in it, embracing it, living in it, and how that can contribute to us living in harmony. And so the first one, we're one that would be thrilled to get your kind of framework and understanding around is we live in perhaps the most individualistic culture to have ever existed and we look throughout all nature as it's a complex ecosystem where interdependence is the natural state of being in existence from all life yet the human mind is the one thing that loves to believe is the separate individual and has the capacity to do so and so when you think about the

the sort of relational reciprocity and interdependence as a way of being throughout all life and living life as an offering and how we can give in that way. What are your thoughts on how we can move from living as a separate individual identity to an interdependent being and recognizing that? It may be just lexicon, but I've been moving away from the word interdependence in some ways in our work around large-scale regeneration, the scale of continents, and then down to the microscopic level at the single-celled organism. But the concept, I think, is absolutely spot on, which is this phenomenon in which single-cellation becomes cancer. A monocrop over 10 million hectares destroys the intelligence and life force within the biosphere within that area. And so certainly

isolation or monoculture, the monotony of, you know, the way in which humans move, typically is to destroy biodiversity and try to create, you know, a scaled version of a monopoly or monoculture. That era needs to end. But our understanding of what emerges as an alternative to that or by nature's design has been shifting. And so I'm blessed to be, you know, helping a group of us come off the ground with the Institute of Natural Law for the last couple of years.

And we've been really investigating what is the systems of natural law that determine physics, biology, and ultimately human systems. And the first line of natural law is ultimately sovereignty. And I think that that's what we've been reaching for and perhaps mistakenly using this word independent or freedom as a concept. And there is no such thing as independence, as you say. independence as a leads to isolation, isolation to chaos. And so that's the second law of thermodynamics. And so ultimately, this concept of connectivity is critical, but there may be a slight difference between the concept of interdependence,

the word dependence suggesting that one thing can't exist without the other, to a concept of sovereignty. And then once you get sovereignty at the atomic level or the cellular level, you immediately create polarity. And so an electron will always have the proton, the proton will always have the neutron. And so there's these constellations of charges that form within the matrix of our physical reality that are held together by the sovereignty of each individual. And at no point does the proton probably feel dependent upon the neutron and said it's joy to sit and share space with the neutron.

You know, there's this sense of the connectivity as a result of the polarity. And so as we think about that as social systems or human design, it inspires us to think past the concept. of independence or freedom, towards this concept of sovereignty of each individual. And once you have sovereignty, then instead of polarization, we get polarity. And understanding that your opposite is actually really critical to your stability and your self-expression ultimately. And so while you're not dependent on that other thing, sodium's always sodium. If there's chloride, not chloride, sodium's always sodium.

But if you can give it an opportunity to bond to chloride, now it's salt, and you get this beautiful thing that is necessary for oceans to live and for life. to breathe and all these beautiful things. But at no point does one lose the identity of the other. And the concept of interdependence runs the risk of us believing that there's one world government or one world system or you should sacrifice yourself for the greater whole. And so that's the shadow side of this kind of understanding that we're all kind of moving towards it.

Like, all right, isolation's bad. What's the alternative? And so I think the concept of interdependence is good, but maybe we can nuance it into this concept of interconnection or constellations. of sovereignty, and that will help unify, I think, be a unifying field theory between something like, you know, your United States of America, the capitalism, the individual, the power of the individual, protect human rights at the individual level versus a socialism standpoint or viewpoint in France or Denmark or Russia, wherever it is. So it doesn't matter what your political

position is or political expression. It matters, are you following natural law or not? And if in each of those political systems, sovereignty is recognized, and then the power of the interconnectedness between sovereign beings emerges. Then we start to build systems that are very coherent and have a pathway and a methodology of communication across lots of different psychosocial political matrices. So as it pertains that as a parallel to like our own inner nature, the reason I bring it up as one of the first is because embracing the perspective shift from consumer to contributor and recognizing whatever term we want to use there, we don't live in a vacuum. Nothing does. And so with that acknowledgement, with grace and wisdom can interact with our environment and all living

life around us with that sort of empathy and understanding. And so when you think about that shift from consumer to contributor, what brings a bell there? It was beautiful. So in the same way that interdependence, the word suggests a scarcity mentality. And so when we're dependent on one other, I would suggest there's a scarcity of provision in some ways, you know, and so dependent on you. When in reality, you know, nature is not dependent on humans to do its thing. If humans cease to exist in the next couple decades do our own extinction pressure, nature

is going to fill that void in an instant. And it's going to do it through a more complex system that's going to have to, stack geometry even more beautifully, and we have more intelligence, more beauty on this planet in a few years than we do now. And so nature's always in an ascension pathway. And so when we go from interdependence to interabundance, we start to understand the way nature works. And in the same way, I think that consumerism is actually an expression of the wound of abandonment. So we believed ourselves to be abandoned from nature at a deep level of the human psyche. And for that, we develop the ego as a protective shield saying, well, okay, fine, if you reject me, I'm going to fight

you and I'm going to attack you with bigger weapons than you have. And so our weapons are antibiotics and our, you know, because we're on germ warfare. And like, we're in this rush to try to figure out how to beat nature at its own game. So we have chemical pesticides, chemical herbicides, chemical pharmacy. And so we're pushing nature back to try to make space for humans. as a result, we go extinct in isolation. And so interdependence, moving to interabundance, and then from that consumerism of I need lots of stuff because there's not enough,

so I need to go find the thing that will make me feel whole or safe or filled up, satiated, without realizing the whole thing is within yourself. You know, that's the ultimate journey. You used the word from contributor? Contributor, yeah. I also think of it as creator,

and so moving from consummate. to creation or but contributors are a good word like that it's a nice again look at how the biodiversity creates the whole you know so everybody's contributing to this beautiful home and so as you shift from that interdependence to interabundance and then as you move from scarcity and abandonment towards this radical acceptance and this kind of expression nature through us then we move into this possibility that we should probably stop human doing and we can just you know shift into this quiet space of letting nature speak through us, which is the vessel she designed. And so these human bodies are very unique anatomy. We have more biodiversity in a human colon than any other colon on

the planet. So you look at any of the mammals or you look at the reptiles, the human biology holds the highest amount of biodiversity of any segment of nature on the planet. And because that much biodiversity is speaking to one neurology, we then express something that you would call intelligence. But it's not actually human intelligence. It's ecosystem intelligence. And so this phenomenon of becoming creator is already inherent in your biology. You are contributing a voice to nature as a human being. There is so much biology speaking through you. There's so much biodiversity speaking through you as a human

that you're expressing the intelligence of a complex system. And when you start to trust that, and you stop thinking that as the human mind that needs to see a problem and then fix it, which is kind of that masculine male brain, wounded masculine, and perhaps version of ourselves that we're all prone to. We try to fix our kids and their problems. We try to fix our households. We try to fix our house.

We try to fix our companies. We try to fix our products. That mentality is getting away from the fact that there is an emergent beauty. There's an emergent creation force coming through humanity that is inevitable. And so that is kind of where we move from that consumer to contributor is where we kind of move into this possibility that, oh my gosh, nature's just trying to express herself through us. What if we start breathing together and slowing the heck down, slow down, slow down until you see the beauty that she's trying to show? And that feels much different. That feels like remembering

rather than, you know, doing something. That flows perfectly into the second pillar, which could be described as emergence, emergent wisdom, decentralized intelligence. You look at nature and these phenomena of startling murmurations and these complex systems and self-organizing systems like you spoke to, we have the capacity to let nature speak through us through the most diverse microbiome to the intelligence that we hold the capacity for as a human species in a human life. And the shift and the deepening and the remembering like you spoke to from just the egoic mind of what we can logically know and deduce to allowing a greater intelligence to move through us is something I want to reflect on because in my perspective, those are kind of two

polarities in which are tied to the first thing that we're talking about from a scarce mindset to that kind of interabundance to allowing something greater to move through us. And so what comes to mind as it pertains to allowing that emerging deeper knowing that our body has the innate capacity to take stage. I love that question. You named one of my favorite phenomenon in nature, the murmuration of the starling or birds. You know, and it's such a good example

of the stacking geometries of centropy. You know, centripy is the movement towards order from chaos. And so that centropic function of nature accelerates and creates more and more beauty, more and more complexity with the more participants. And so when you get, you know, 10 birds in a flock, they line up in a V, and they do a two-dimensional structure, but it's always structured. And that one in front peels off and joins the back, and they move up.

And so they're sharing the leadership in a very simple geometry. But you put 10,000 birds together. They're now not just doing a multidimensional shape. That thing is in motion. And so a murmuration is that extraordinary phenomenon where 10,000. and will start to express sacred geometries at the scales of a kilometer and, you know, of stacked birds in motion.

And they create these super complex structures of sacred geometry and swirling motion. And so they'll create double helices. They'll create, you know, aceshedrons and all of this in motion. And so that intelligence is something that was called quorum sensing at the biologic level. And so when you get enough diversity

or enough inputs into a single space, start to see these really beautiful things that are far more spectacular than the sum of its parts. And so it's this true synergy where there's one plus one equals four, not two, you know. And so that synergy of the centropic nature of multiple connections creates the beauty of something like a murmuration. And this is where I think we have fundamentally broken our contribution, you know, moving from contributor back to consumer in our human systems as we break that pot. into relationships of tens of thousands, and we turned it into a nuclear family.

And now you're a husband, you're a wife, and there's your children, there's your white picket fence. Everything inside this fence is yours, everything outside of it is not yours. And so now you've isolated yourself from the 99.99% of nature, that is the Mother Earth, that was intending to be your mother in the first place.

And in that concept of ownership, as a solution to scarcity, we create more scarcity. And so the murmuration of a bird is showing if we would just let go of the belief that we're not protected and the nature's against us and we need to consume so that there's enough. Letting go of that and increasing the number of connections, we return perhaps at the local level to a village model. But we're starting to have the technologies at our fingertips that are going to remind us of what it feels like to be wholly connected to the whole organism of humanity. And so cell phones and, you know, the tech world, Zoom, whatever it is, is leading us back to this possibility that there's more. beauty with more connection. And right now we're relying on very low vibration technology.

5G networks compared to what happens in a human cell is like we haven't even reached kindergarten. The technology inside of a human body is so far beyond our comprehension. And so when we all have, you know, this moment of amazement when a man comes along and says, I've filled a steel tube with solid rocket fuel and I lit it on fire and it shot up into the air. And then it fell back on earth. And everybody's like, oh my God, that's so genius. We should put billions of dollars into that project. Meanwhile, there's a woman that is undernourished in the squad of villages of Philippines who creates a silent space inside of her called a womb. She surrenders that to the divine. She blinds herself to the very process that's going to unfold within her and she,

with progesterone so that her immune system itself can't even see what's about to unfold, fully surrendering that to create her. And this creative force takes a single, human cell and turns it into 70 trillion human cells that self-organized into a body of a child that nine months later somehow emerges from her body, quantum entangled with a identity that has been here since the beginning of time, and there's no headlines. It's unbelievable. Like, what the heck are we doing? We have failed to appreciate the miracle of life, and for that we have so desecrated that life. It does seem to be that phenomena where the fish doesn't know water because it's so ubiquitous within its environment, right?

Like the human life process, our reverence to, has been divorced for so many different reasons. But I think voices like yours are really empowering because it helps remind us what's staring us at, you know, staring us in the face in terms of the intelligent beauty and design within life. Why I say it's empowering is because it returns our sovereignty back to us when we realize that, we are and a part of a vast sea of intelligence that, uh, again, the mind has the capacity to divorce itself from at times,

but we can, we can sink back into it. And so is there, is there another example that you see in nature that is a, that is a reflection as to remembering the innate intelligence within life and, and, uh, you could take it from the animal kingdom or, you know,

within us as humans. I like the image of the fish not realizing it's in the water and not appreciating that. I think our current condition is that we don't even, we're afraid to be in the water right now. So we're the fish that keeps jumping out of the water trying to breathe there. So we're not even breathing in the right environment. We're so afraid of what we were born into that we don't want to be in it. And so we keep jumping straight out of the water wondering why we can't breathe. We've got to fall back in the water.

And that water is this ocean. of abundance that nature has spread into our own bodies. We are soil system. Human biology, again, most complex ecosystem with the planet, more bacteria, fungi, protozobe, parasites, etc. In a single organism, we are life force expressed in biodiversity. And we keep trying to jump out of that biodiversity into this loneliness and into this rarefied environment

where we can't breathe. We've got to fall back in the water at some point. And something that I've experienced since our last time together is a sudden realization of why everything I've created the last 15 years has kept collapsing around me. And it was largely because I was trying to build and live from my heart. And it was a refreshing place to be in because before that I had been up in my head. And for the 30 years I had spent my head, 17 years out in academia, multiple subspeciality medicine, trying to I think, trying to control nature through my own knowledge.

It was such a relief to get in my heart. I think that's the moment I came, I became the fish that was stopped trying to jump out of the water and started just like going to the water. And I was so happy in the water when I got there. And well, oh my God, this is Nirvana. I've reached. And so I was experiencing, you know, the water. And every day I was like, oh, my gosh, there's so much love.

I'm so overwhelmed by the amount of love I feel, which is actually an expression of the beauty that I see. I can see so much more beauty. I'm in this torrent of energy that's coming through a human art. And so I was like, oh, this is incredible. This must be where I, so I built companies and nonprofits. And I built family from there. And I built, you know, friend network, everything else. And it was so unstable.

And we destabilized one another in our effort to hold on to each other because we were all told we should be in the heart. The result of that, personally, was so much heartbreak that I can't even really put a word to it. I shattered my heart so many times in the last 15 years. I don't want to go there as far as just feeling that really. But that amount of heartbreak finally shattered my heart so that I could no longer stay in that container. And the final blows kind of came in December and January this year.

And that final shattering fell me out of it. I found myself in a very, very quiet place. And so that's a long story into what is it that we're striving towards as human beings. And in looking from that still space with me back up to heart, I'm realizing that we are supposed to be witnessed to the world from a silent space so we're not imprinting or becoming codependent with what we may call love. And so if you're really to step into your full humanity, I think you're going to find yourself into an extreme state of stillness

and a willingness to see the beauty without owning it, without having any codependence on it, without thinking you are the source of the love that's going to come to that entity. And so I'm recreating my whole world over the last few months now, and simplicity all in it just awes me. And I think I'm finally figuring out how

not to be a fish out of water, not to be the river, but just to be the damn fish, just be the fish. Thank you for sharing the vulnerability. of your own journey in that process. If you're open, like, another theme here is death, rebirth and the seasonal cycles of life that feel difficult and are difficult at times to move through. And yet, nature has abundant reminders of the necessity for forest fires to clear the underbrush for

sequoia germination and variances of seeds of pine trees that only germinate after forest fires. And so, when you think of death loss clearing as it has a unique capacity to create connection on the other side, what comes to mind there? Somewhere along that sense of abandonment from nature, we developed the fear of death, and we started to see death and what comes after it different than life. So instead of understanding that the first law of thermodynamics, which is you can either create or destroy energy, it only can change forms. That's a very hard premise to believe in when you are sitting there with a loved one

and suddenly they're not there in the three-dimensional realm that you were just experiencing. And I was just on stage this morning at a near future summit and I shared some perspective on the permanence of identity. And it was interesting that I got off stage

and immediately had a mother come up who had lost a child and wanted to know, can I actually still connect to that thing? Is that identity still? still in the universe. And she was a new turning point for her. And then minutes later, I'm walking out.

And the woman comes up, will I see my mother again who passed, you know, in that sense of realization of maybe these identities are permanent and not temporary? And it wasn't really the purpose of my talk, but it was the reaction to this possibility that maybe identity predates and postdates your biology. And so this is, I think, a beautiful journey for humanity now. And I've seen it so many times in hospice. So I was admitting 80 patients a week to die for four years. And so you see thousands of deaths.

And when you sit at that many deathbeds, like, there's this process that happens that I can only maybe call the thinning of the veil. Like you suddenly start to see past your seeing reality and start to see or feel the reality that's more multidimensional past that individual. And it's not just for that individual. The whole room can open up. And so somebody who's crossing the veil is opening a portal for you to move back and forth between these realities of a perceived three-dimensional eye that sits within a multidimensional, you know, multiverse, a universe. And so that is something that I really experienced over and over again.

And I would say that, you know, death, when you really sit with it is the ultimate medicine. And so much of what we're doing in my seven-day experiences and everything else in these nature-struck places is to really immerse people in the death process. of how do you die to yourself, meaning the self that you believe yourself to be? And so how do you die to the perception of your reality, your perception of self, so that you can feel the original medicine, because your unique medicine is a code for somebody else. And ultimately, that's what you find at the deathbed is that soul showed up here to unlock elements within everybody around them throughout their entire life. They were constellating with other souls, and they were delivering,

even in the contentious relationships and the broken relationships and all the things, things we might have judgment on, in those moments, they were passing on the codes. They were giving the gift to the other individual that they needed on their journey by just being them. And so that's going to be the precious moment of humanity, I think, is when we start waking up in the pillow in the morning realizing this is why I came. I came here to silently sit within a human body to bring the medicine of my soul to this moment. And now I'm going to be willing for the universe to move me on the great seven-dimensional

chessboard to find out who I should be next to today. Looking from that vantage point of like the absolute knowing and you could kind of get out of ourselves for a little bit in this identity structure of Andre and Zach Bush that are like living their life and there are these cycle seasons periods where we where we need to lose to make you know make space for what's to come in hindsight we can connect those dots in the moment, it can feel very painful in terms of death, loss, loss, and grief. And again, this theme pulled straight from nature of the ever-present changing of seasons, genetic mutations, evolutionary path over different periods of time.

When you think of the human being as they go through different seasons and different cycles in their own life, as winter could be compared to my life, more of a, you know, death season. And there's the fallow season, you know, and in the periods where it doesn't seem like things are sprouting, but, you know, still action is happening but beneath the service of perception to the times where it's ready to reap,

you know, things that we've been sewing for many years prior. What comes to mind is what's, like, important to remind people about embracing the seasonality of that journey. Everything's temporary. in a strange way we've developed such a commitment to permanence and we are chasing permanence in every area of our lives therefore divorcing ourselves from nature every moment we got to stop holding on to things as if they're here to be forever and i think that relates to every area of human life i think that the most damage we do to one another is through trying to make relationships permanent and in that we anchor each other to a past reality that's no longer real and so when you try to make permanent the love that you feel for somebody, you're asking them to be the thing that you fell in love with permanently. And the fact is, they won't only even be that by the time you marry them.

Like, they've already changed. And yet you're trying to anchor them in a point in time of, I fell in love with these traits. And in that process, you will drain them of those traits. And that's the Course of Miracle's definition of human relationships. And so there's this amazing moment as you go through the Course of Miracles of realizing, oh, my God, I'm creating the hell that I'm living in. draining the divine nature of everything around me out of it by believing that I'm separate from the source. I'm separate from nature. And so when you are separate from nature and then you separate

God and then you separate twice from God, you're going to start sucking everything from around you until it's gone. And that's ultimately what a cancer cell does. A cancer cell not realizing it's part of the greater organism. In its isolation, it starts to fail to be able to make its own energy. So it has to draw energy from other sources. And so as small as a tumor is, you know, somebody dying of lung cancer, that lung cancer is smaller than, you know, might be the size of a baseball at the most, but oftentimes the size of golf ball. It represents 0.1% of the total body. How is that actually killing an organism? It's sucking so much energy out of the greater organism in its loneliness, in its sense of disconnect, in its sense that it is incomplete and can't solve for the wholeness.

So in its desperate nature to try to become whole, it's sucking. you dry. And so we have in our constructs of marriage and relationship that's trying to reach for permanence draining each other of the best within us. And I've been through two marriages to the two most amazing women I've ever met. And I drained the best out of both of them and they drained the best out of me. And we left those relationships feeling some degree of loss or heartbrokeness or loneliness or disconnect. And in the beauty of it, you know, especially in my first marriage, I got to witness what it suddenly felt like when I switched the table around and realized for the first time I was going to be able to unconditionally love this woman

because everything I had done before that was conditional. And I hadn't realized it. And I was only in my deep, deep, you know, pouring out of my heart to try to convince her to come back that I realized that's the most conditional thing I could possibly. So if I really professing love for a human being, why would I have it that her path had to keep lining up with mine. And of course she was right. The path that she's taken us both on

through her intuition of her path has been spectacular. And to be able to see that being now, independent of myself, independent of any construct of permanence that I needed from her, it has set me free, it has set her free.

And I just hope that us as humans can start to stop, for goodness sake, stop defining the ends of things as failures and realize everything is, impermanent. Everything isn't in a constant state of ascension. There is no such thing as death. There's only rebirth. There's not a such thing as an end point in nature. There's only the recreation. And so what you're speaking to around that seasonality is this embracing of change. And do you really expect nature to do the same thing tomorrow? And right now in monoculture farming,

you do. You expect her to grow the same amount of corn that she did last year and you find out she won't. So now you're putting her on ICU drips and forcing her further. out of her nature to try to continue to squeeze the same amount of corn out of her acreage next year. And so it's this pursuit of permanence and productivity of a relationship or a farm field or an ICU that's driving us to these extreme degrees of consumption and destruction that's sucking the energy out of the planet. And so this is a really fun moment for us to reconsider what would seasonality look like in human design of cities, of hospitals, of schools, of systems of industry. What would it look like if we always plan for seasonality and the constant

state of change becomes our understanding that is so deep that we actually create a value system out of it? How fast are you willing to change? And I've enjoyed being a friend to you and to our greater community because we've allowed each other to go through a lot of different changes. The people that are in our circle have changed so radically since last year when we shared that time in Egypt. Not a single one of us looks to be on the same path that we were there. And that's the beauty of friendship is that it is a model of human relationship that I think can allow us to get out of this scarcity model and this model of permanence. And my best friends, you know, from when I was a teenager, and I was 12 years old when I met my best friends out in Colorado. And we did all kinds

of crazy antics and miracle when it was survived our teen years for all the stupid things we did. But when I dropped back in with them in Colorado, 40 years later, we're the same joy. We have just such interesting curiosity for like what's happening to the other person and oftentimes a year or two, three years before, since we've really talked and takes 30 seconds to drop back in and be like, oh, let's play, let's play, let's go. And so there's no real questioning of like, what was your journey since last time? And then let me judge that for a while. And why haven't you been on my path? Friendship is this beautiful thing that allows you to do the murmuration. And so we already have a beautiful human construct that is the alternative to, you know, these contractual relationships where

We're trying to be somebody's partner for life or whatnot. And we're willing to start to step into the possibility that maybe our paths do stay in parallel, or we weave, or we come in intersections, and let's value every one of those designs. Why would it be any less successful to have a three-year marriage at an intersection than a 20-year marriage that held two kids and all this? They're simply different weaves. There's simply different sacred geometries in the murmuration of my life, your life, everybody's life. And so when we stop designing for permanence in our buildings or our relationships, we're going to have a very rewarding experience of allowing a greater beauty to emerge as we murmurate as humans.

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WestJet, where your story takes off. Hey everyone. Sometimes I get asked what kind of tea we drink on the show and what I like to drink in my life in general. And so I just wanted to give a quick share. Not all tea is the same. Many tea companies are made with horrible ingredients and leak microplastics into your tea. And so one tea brand that I've been loving and drinking all the time, I love all their products. Peak life. They have this puer tea, which is not like normal tea. Poir is fermented, meaning it's loaded with living probiotics and prebiotics that support your gut health. It's like a reset button for your whole microbiome. And it supports with your digestion, energy, metabolism, and your skin. Poiras green and black tea is wild harvested from 250-year-old trees, triple toxin screened. So there's no junk,

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So if you don't like it, it's risk-free. You can go to peaklife.com slash know-liself to grab yours now. that's peaklife.com slash know thyself. I hope you enjoy. I think if that perspective was embraced, it would have a radical transformation instantly on contact for everybody who would experience it because in the belief of separation, of course,

we have that scarcity paradigm baked in. And when somebody experiences the wholeness that they are, as opposed to the belief of separation, that is pervasive. then you realize the impermanence of what all the reflections are around you, and you don't have that stern expectation of deriving our joy from extracting it in others. You know, like I think that what you spoke to in prior relationships and ways of being. It's interesting because those experiences, like the reflection of who or not helps reveal us the experience of who we are.

the contrast of that experience, you know, of seeing where we've been out of alignment helps us know our values and what is in alignment, you know? And so it all serves as a part of the journey and it's beautiful in that aspect. And I directly think of that as the stress and resistance that we often face in life can be viewed as a privilege in an aspect because of what it's revealing to us. And we see this throughout nature and how so much of nature's intelligence and growth is unlocked through the resistance of the external world from denser wood trees from that are exposed to windy areas to the coral reefs that are strengthened through hard tides and so when you think about the human journey what do you think is a unique relationship between stress and growth

they're inseparable you can't have growth without the stress and uh that's a really interesting design within nature. At the human body level, it's done through, or exemplified in many, many different systems, but a cool one is bone. We think of bone as like the scaffold that we hang muscle off of. Bone is a living organ that produces more endocrine hormones than any other part of the body by logarithms. It's the most complex system of communication and transformation of any system within our bodies. It's constantly remodeling. And the only way to get your bones stronger is to fracture it. And so when you do weight-bearing exercise, you go for a jog, or you run down a flight of stairs, or you bounce on a trampoline, you are creating millions

of tiny little micro-fractures within the bone, which then call in osteoclasts that clean up the broken bone and call in an osteoblasts, lay down new bone, and pretty soon six hours, 12 hours later, you have more bone density than you did before you fractured it. And so there's this beautiful homeostasis between friction and growth that exists at the cellular level. And stagnancy is the only way to die quickly in the end. So in our effort towards comfort, always 72 degrees, air-conditioned rooms, heated rooms, you know, sweater, you never walk in snow without like four layers of rubber and plastic and wool between you and the snow. You're isolating yourself from friction. You're isolating yourself from stress. You're going to become very, you know, stagnant in your biology.

The most powerful way to witness this is watching your loved one end up in a hospital for three days. Their muscle tone just goes away. They shrink. Their face looks different day on day. It's terrifying to watch how fast they're dying in the hospital bed. And I've watched thousands and thousands of families panicking at the bedside because they're literally watching their loved one just like wasting away in real time. And every time they come back in a visit every day or two, it looks like they're more dead. And in fact, what's happening is they're more isolated from the frictions of the world. So atrophy and the loss of life is a phenomenon of stagnancy. So as we go into seasonality and as we start to embrace the friction, we're going to grow

quickly. It seems on the path of our own individual and collective growth, how important it is to discover our own unique, innate, one-of-one expression of life and how we contribute to the greater hole and our creator towards a greater hole. If stress and resistance is the antithesis to the stagnancy that leads us to isolation and atrophy, then embracing and seeing stress and resistance and things that are hard in our life is actually a great, immense opportunity to refine the capacities we have within us, then on that journey, we can begin to discover our unique expression of life, the original design that we have that's one of one. and so we call this the fifth pillar of the biodiversity of being,

how we all have a unique expression. And so when you think of us on our human journey, as we have the capacity to reveal that one-of-one expression of life through us, how do we come to embrace that and know that, discover that, remember that? Hmm. You know, like the one-on-one, you know, that one, that oneness that we're after. Again, that gets back to the sovereignty here.

And so once you settle into that sovereign experience of being self, I think there's an opportunity for us to understand the purpose of friction, the purpose of change in our life. And when you stop resisting it, then friction doesn't lead to pain. And that's why we resist friction is because we learned that if you don't get away from the friction, you start to get over hot, and you start to get inflammation, and you start to get inflammation in your relationships, inflammation in your own body, and your immune system's dysfunctioning, and now you have allergy and gut sensitivity and all this stuff, it's because you're trying to design your life for permanence, and you, in that, you found out that the more you held

on to something, the more friction you had, and if you held on and kept holding on, then the friction got painful. So somewhere in your subconscious, you've linked friction with pain, but the only reason the pain occurred was because you were failing to surrender to the friction and let it change your direction. So friction never becomes pain in nature. Nature just keeps changing direction. And so friction is what creates a murmuration. You wouldn't have those great curves within the murmuration of 10,000 starlings if it wasn't for the changes

and the friction between the air currents that is created by the wings in front of you, behind you, around you. So it's the flight of humanity that's creating these frictions on the planet. And if we would start to realize, oh, I'm having friction over here, that doesn't mean I need to hold on tighter

and resisted or get mad at it or have judgment on what's causing friction. I need to let that bend my curve. And when we start to see life is constantly bending curve, rather than a straight line that we're trying to maintain, we will be much more free of pain. And so I really believe that this is one of the unintended consequences of the 1980s and the 90s, and well, maybe it was 90s and 2000s, but somewhere in those couple decades, it started to be kind of in the zeitgeist that we all needed an intention board.

And we needed, like, great, the Pinterest, this was before Pinterest, but everybody had literally a whiteboard and they were cutting pictures out of magazines and putting them on their dorm room of their intention board of their life. That gives the belief that there's a straight line to your future. And now every time you see yourself going on a path and it doesn't feel like you're getting to your intention board, you're failing, you feel like you must be out of your purpose, you got to go find your purpose, you must need to go to India, whatever it is. And the reality is, no, you need to sit in the currents of the air around you and then trust

that the path is taking you into the most beautiful journey you could possibly do. And the things that you can see in your future that might have ended up on an intention board are on your journey, but they're not where you expected them. And they're not, the destination, it wasn't a destination, it was a part of the journey that you were going to fly through. And if you start to give up the idea of getting to your intention, you start to find freedom in your own life. And so this is where I think the real freedom is going to come into humanity as we start

to just let go of all the things we've been clinging to. to that create the friction that we then hold on harder and we get mad at and we judge and then we create pain. And so it's not until you're in so much pain that you finally let go of the things around you and that kind of near-death experience that you find yourself moving freely again and there's new life on the other side of the pain. In that there is a shedding of cultural homogenization and embracing more of a wild undomesticated self where our path is revelatory instead of just known.

And on the whiteboard, like, we have all the things we want. We want to get all the things. And yet life is trying to unfold greater than we can imagine, which is a liberating reminder because it takes the pressure off of us being an individual source of creating all the things we want in our life. And so this is where I surrender to like a greater intelligence, which has been a through line throughout this whole conversation, you know, comes in. I'm just really fascinated about that process of transformation through the natural world,

through our natural world as a human being, when something doesn't just change from one thing to another, but it transforms from one thing to another. When the seed is encoded with the potential of the redwood tree, but they resemble nothing like each other, you know? And so when I think of how to help create the conditions for that, to transpire for our own internal journey. I would love to get your perspectives on

what those conditions are. And perhaps this could kind of flow into one of the last pillars of nature, which is stillness, which is spending time in that deeper knowing and imbiting in that place of not knowing to allow something greater to transpire. What comes to mind as the conditions necessary

for us to go through that transformation? And in my experience, it's more pain. So I had to go through more mental strife to get myself out of academia than humanly possible until I shattered my brain. Then I had to go through 15 years of breaking my heart until I shattered that container. And now I found myself in this very steel point. So for me, there was such a value system on the doingness and the flow and being the next thing and going to the next place that I didn't even know what it would feel like to be still. And if you'd talk to me six months ago, as you did, I'm sure I would have thought I was still. I'm sure I would have been known about stillness.

I'm like, oh, yeah, that's why we do mindfulness. That's why we do breath work. I thought, I honestly did think that I knew what that was. But I was living in this torn of energy that I would call a human heart or the experience of living out of that, this energy system of a human at the chest. Surrender is such a potent, potent, potent thing. It's, you know, a word that we use all the time, maybe overuse. but it's a letting go. And for some reason, I always just thought that, you know,

I would have discomfort in my life all the time because I had exited the safe things in my life. I had exited the place that I need to hold on to, you know, a woman to create a safe haven. And I needed to create kids through that so that there was a sense of dependence that I would, you know, be valued by society in or need to create companies that then grew

and then employed lots of people so that I would have value that I was providing. for all these families and all of those systems of belief, because every time I started to set that down, then I would go into the discomfort of the unknown. This has been a much different journey into stillness for me, where for the first time there is no discomfort in the surrender. I think that's maybe what's starting to happen to humanity

as we grind down into our deathbed of a species. We're biologically failing for all of the antibiotics that we have disrupted the relationships of nature with. 70 years of the antibiotic journey in our pharmacies and in our farm fields and the rest has decimated the energy per cubic centimeter on this planet. And so the biology is failing as the lights dim on a planet that is poisoned by the chemicals that would destroy her relationships. And at every hospice moment, you see that sudden shift that happens to the being when they

realize, oh my God, I'm not going to be able to put anything more in my bank account. I'm not going to be able to build anything else. I'm never going to be in love again. And you watch that person go super still. And you would think that if you gave somebody the message of like, hey, you got three weeks or three months of the best to live, they would rush around trying to connect all the people they love and telling everybody writing letters madly of like,

I love you so much. I've never seen it actually happen. Every time somebody gets that message, even if they're pretty well-in-body that they would have the strength to do something like that, they tend to do the exact opposite of what I would have thought. and they tend to sit for long periods of time, very still, and witness little elements around them. And oftentimes this is happening in a nursing home.

And yet that person is seeing more beauty in that room than they ever have before. And they see that cup of tea that's delivered on the tray. And the way in which the steam is coming off its surface is actually showing you the exact same sacred geometry that a murmuration of birds would follow. How does the steam in a billion droplets of water repeat the exact same patterns that 10,000 birds would also follow? And so that person will find the beauty of space time and the steam off their coffee cup sitting in a nursing home and they will in that time fall more in love with themselves

in the life in the last few breaths than they perhaps were allowed to in their whole previous life. Are you willing to lose all the leaves off the tree that you've spent so much springtime in some time, summertime growing. Right now our value systems as humans is measuring the number of leaves on your canopy. And if you start to drop those leaves, then you've lost value. You're going through menopause. You're no longer the CEO of a company. Well, you have less leaves now. So not realizing it's the elder without the leaves. That's putting all the nutrients back down into the ground for the young

life below. And we need to start sitting with the oak trees in their wintertime. to start to see the real beauty of what life could be. Before that, we might sit still in a nursing home and watch a cup of tea with an elder that's not in a hurry to talk to us because they don't have a sense of urgency about anything and they're starting to realize that everything isn't an ascension path towards beauty.

That was very, really beautiful, man. Thank you for sharing all of that. I feel like that embracing of the stillness becomes the bedrock for insight and for the transformation to happen like the background of silence to any good musical piece it allows for

the symphony to take space I know certainly in my journey and it sounds like especially more recently a newfound depth and appreciation for stillness and embodiment of stillness goes hand in hand with the appreciation of beauty and ability to perceive what's the intelligence around you.

And I think that's an incredible reminder from nature as well. Anybody knows whatever their perceived calamities are in their life. A simple walk in nature seems to do wonders for human biology and mind, right? And so, yeah, I think that's a powerful reminder for us all. And, you know, thing we can do, even though, as human. beings we'd love for answers to or for things to do and and and uh we become human doings in so many regards um but that space of non-doing actually in nature i feel like uh and it sounds like as well in your journey has has been the bedrock for so much transformation yeah it's an allowing

instead of a doing you know allow it come to come through us and we get more rich for for the space between I haven't quite gotten to my deathbed yet, I believe, but I do wonder if that's what kind of happens in that moment where instead of seeing the droplets of water that we call steam, creating the shape or the birds flying in the formation to create the experience of a memorization, I do wonder if it's possible that at that moment of really letting go of biology where we really drop into singularity with source,

we suddenly can appreciate the space between the birds as the thing that's creating the beauty. And it's actually the space between the steam that's creating the beauty. And it's the space between our words and thoughts that created the beauty of a life, as the space between the relationships that was the beauty held by a human life that flew.

And it must be something like that because the speed at which somebody shifts from a sense of brokenness and isolation and estrangement from their own family to suddenly dipping across the veil, seeing reality from there and coming back in the body for a moment to tell me again and again Oh my God, it was all perfect, and I am accepted completely.

It's instantaneous again and again, so nothing changed except for the way in which you were seeing, and all of the events were the same, but you must be seeing the new pattern because you can see the space between the things. And so maybe that's the practice that we can start to move into, is to start to see the art and the beauty between the things that we so valued and thought were creating our reality. and all they were doing is really holding points in time to show us the beauty beneath the surface of a three-dimensional world.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Yeah, that hit right on. If we could anthropomorphize what nature might say to this moment humanity finds itself in and see a prevailing message and reminder from nature as to the time we're in, what would she say right now? Fly.

Fly humans. Just fly. That's what you were made to do. And you're ready to let go of all the, let go of the branch you're clinging to, jump out of the nest you've been building, just fly. Feel what that.

The bird spends most of its time outside of the nest. It just wants to fly. And so it flies from branch to branch. It flies from point to point. It flies in the air from other purposes to fly in the air. To feel the space between it and the other birds, to feel the space of the friction

between its wings and its rise. We need to fly, and if we do, if we really let go of each other to witness the beauty of the surrender and the space between us, we're going to create a new society almost immediately, and the frictions that are currently killing us or creating so much pain will diminish

to just the change of direction. And so we've got to surrender at all. We've got to stop trying to hold on to each other. We've got to stop trying to hold on to things or wealth or power, and we got to fly. And we will. I've seen every single death is a flight. You know, it's a retaking flight.

So you will do it. I will do it. And the invitation is for us to do it while we're still in the body. That's different than, I think, what I've been chasing with communities. I think we've been chasing spiritual experiences. and the desire to feel something bigger than this reality we've made as humans. But if we keep doing that, we will go extinct. You don't need to go find spirituality.

You are an energetic existence within what we might call spirituality. Spirituality is just a description of the unseen, you know. It's the felt world of the unseen. That world is always there and it's permanent. It's the way in which the cosmos works. It's the way in which systems work. And so we need to stop trying to escape these bodies to experience spirituality. We need to start reforming our bodies in the spirituality.

And that's a reversal of polarity of our current practices of retreats. And, you know, I want to go experience something in India and the rest. And it takes me back to one of my favorite quotes that I use all the time. And I misquote a little bit because I'm distilling down a long paragraph. But Wendell Berry, who's one of the most brilliant minds of our last century, incredible poet and observer of nature, and he was testifying in front of Congress many times in 1970s, 80s,

but he was incredible when he said the sentence that until we understand to every point or every place to be sacred, we will only create desecrated spaces. And I think that's our new journey is we need to stop trying to go find the sacred space or the sacred mountain or the sacred experience with our indigenous ceremony

or our plant medicine or our meditation or our breath work, we need to stop trying to escape to the sacredness, and we need to start to realize that every place is sacred, and we need to start to manifest that sacredness within every part of our bodies. And there's an opportunity for us to change biology at a very, very deep level to escape extinction,

and we would have to lose the genes of fear, guilt, and shame. And to do that, we have to lose the genes. It's not the belief, it's not the psycho-spiritual concepts of it. It's you need to change the genetics, that believed in fear, guill and shame, or were shaped by fear, guilt, and shame. So if we are to persist as a species, we have this short window of time.

It needs to happen in this decade, and it's been prophesied that we would succeed in this, so I have great hope for this decade. But in this decade, we would lose the genes of fear, guilt, and shame. We are an ascension path. We will lose the fear, guilt, and shame, the moment we let go of our bodies. But is it possible that we are ready

to genetically modify ourselves through the release of fear, guilt, and shame to live in new biology, come out of our hospice moment in this human thing, and create some sort of new biology that expresses itself in far more complexity, far more intelligence, far more connected beauty for the loss of those three elements. This episode is brought to you by FedEx. These days, the power move isn't having a big metallic credit card to drop on the check at a corporate lunch.

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Amazon presents Jeff versus Taco Truck Salsa, whether it's Verde, Roja, or the orange one. For Jeff, trying any salsa is like playing Russian roulette with a flamethrower.

Luckily, Jeff saved with Amazon and stocked up on antacids, ginger tea, and milk. Habaniero? More like Habinier, yes. Save the everyday with Amazon. It seems like earlier when you were mentioning on your own path, the perceived possibility of your own death was really masquerading as the death of an identity structure that needed to take place, that was transpiring to take place. And I think we're seeing that on the collective sense.

scale now, as you said in this decade, we've seen those paradigms and narratives of your guilt and shame play out to untold levels, but also the other polarity of it, which is the immense capacity for beauty. And it seems like with the evolution of any technology and growth of a generation, there is the capacity for both the metacrisis unfolding in that way. And then also the complete recognition of everything is sacred. And what a time to be alive, you know? What a difference to live, you know, instead of fear of death. The biohacking world has been symptomatic of our fear of death.

It's a multi-billion dollar preying on our fear of death, fear of aging. Humans will spend more money on biohacking in the next 10 years than they ever will on drugs because they're so afraid of aging. And so this is playing into our fear, guilt, shame paradigm. and it will die with the fear. We will no longer look outside of ourselves for solutions to make ourselves young or make life permanent when we realize that it's the flight that we were really looking for. The thing that kept everybody alive for long in the blue zones was actually human connection.

There's nothing more potent than multi-generational human connection to expand a lifespan. So we need to speed up our acceptance. acceptance of our human wholeness. And I'm sorry for the time that it took me. And I'm so grateful for the virtues I created in that journey to murmurate into this exact moment. Because like you said, what an incredibly precious time would be alive. More will change in the next five years than any time in history. And even more so all of the times in history combined.

We are going to go through such a radical change in our reality. We are about to find out that we are in a sea. of intelligence throughout the cosmos, and we are, we were never alone as an intelligent species because the intelligence that speaks through us is not human, it's Mother Nature through the microbiome through our colon, and we are not alone in the cosmos as a species of intelligence because so many have come so long before us, because we live in a cosmos of 14 billion years, and we were seated here by other intelligences and other species that are participating in a grand experiment called human right now, and we have been nurtured and care taken through the whole journey.

And we're about to wake up to the reality that we have thousands of nursemaids around each of us every day because we hold a very special technology, which is a column of water that's uniquely held in the geometry of a human genome that vibrates in a very specific frequency when it witnesses beauty. So I think that while there may be species far more intelligent in advance in their technologies, they are nurse-baiting us and protecting us because there's a possibility that we will lose fear, guilt, and shame and ultimately step into the power of the human transformative technology of a human heart. and we will witness the world with our five senses that make us believe we're separate from everything.

And when we believe we're separate from the murmuration of birds, we see the beauty within the birds. If we're not separate, then we're part of the murmuration. In some ways, nature has been waiting to create a species that would think itself separate from everything so that it could witness the beauty more profoundly and vibrate in a frequency that might be called unconditional love. And for all of the other beings that are admitting that frequency, they may not be able to feel it. And for that, they may not be able to transform sorrow and pain into joy and forgiveness. So is it our capacity to transmute the elements of nature itself through a human heart that keeps us so closely protected by the intelligences that are around us?

Sitting with a three-star general recently, I was told that there's been 300 instances of attempted nuclear war. 300 times in the last 70 years, somebody has pushed to Biden or triggered a suitcase of nuclear war. weapon, and every single time that has been disharmed by something. It's possible that space and time are not linear, and it's possible that our future selves are among us, stopping the nuclear war that we started and wiped out humanity with. So we are either protecting ourselves from this event, or we are surrounded by many money and other intelligence that are protecting us because we are special in our capacity to feel so uniquely for our distance from nature.

I'm intrigued. Glad to be here. And I want to keep pushing the envelope with you and everyone else. Again, man, what a time to be alive in the revelation of these things that are going to be transpiring. I'm just curious, as a closing thought, what do you think are the main contributing factors that are going to be the most obvious reason why the next five years is like the most is going to transpire in the next five years from variances and, you know, artificial intelligence to, uh, recognizing the technology that is the human body. What, when you look back in hindsight from, you know, 50 years from now, looking back on the phase shift

that humanity is about to go through, what do you see as the biggest changes that are happening in the next five years in that aspect? We're gonna remember. We're something to remember who we are. We were designed through a birthright for something really great. And it may have even been an accident that had happened.

You know, maybe nobody planned for the humans on this earth to express this biology that would do this incredibly powerful transmutation of the elements. But it happened, and we're here. And we're going to suddenly remember our birthright, and we're going to suddenly realize how magnificent it is to be a soul that got to quantum entangle with a human body. How do you see that reality transpiring? Like, what would be the initiation of initiating factors of that? The greatest crisis and surrender that we've ever seen.

We'll shatter our hearts so thoroughly in these next couple years for all the death we'll see, for all of the collapse of economies that we will witness, the dissolution of all the things that we thought were permanent. And we're so shatter our collective heart and our collective minds that we're going to all find ourselves in stillness. And we'll suddenly remember why we're here. And we will rebirth the species in a moment. moment. And I think that happens before the end of the decade. And I keep a loose hand on that,

but I see the pieces assembling so fast now. And I feel myself going so slow to my tomorrow now that I feel like I can even witness it now, even if it hasn't happened in the three dimensions, I feel like I can already see that humanity within myself. I don't need to be affirmed in my humanness anymore. I became human. I'm super confident about that now. Zach, one of the things I love for you, even beyond the immense wealth of knowledge that you possess and how you can share that is just how much you care

and how much you love and how much I get to witness that in the community and the individuals you meet and you're surrounded with, it's truly a gift to be around you. And I'm just so happy that you're here at this time. We all serve a unique purpose and the evolution of what humanity is going to take form next And I do think that certain individuals have the life experience and the culmination of many different experiences that have led them to be able to articulate and be a leader in this time.

And so I very much so see you as a leader. And I love and appreciate you very much. So grateful to be with you. I'm grateful to be witnessed by you and greatest to witness you. My friend, that was the conclusion to the trilogy. our third podcast. I appreciate you. Thank you.

Any last words that you want to share before we close out? And then as well, anything, any exciting new projects? Maybe you want to, we'll link down below. But if you want to mention anything, let me know. I'm easy to reach through all the different avenues. But Zach Bush, MD takes you into my ecosystem of projects and everything else that has been manifested by so many people. And so brilliant minds and brilliant beings are, in flight together and pulling something into reality that is now moving at a level that I could

never imagine before as it comes out of this most recent death cycle of everything. And so I'm very intrigued to see how all of you fit in. I'm starting to see patterns emerge that are global and realizing that there's a constellation emerging that is going to fit into Project Biome, the nonprofit environment that kind of internecks all of the peoples that have ever claimed themselves to be on a nonprofit, you know, a pathway of activism. There's a common path with a with a very cohesive experience that we can all have together. And Project Biombs holding a container for that possibility of unification of an organism out of 10.5 million organizations

that are trying to fix things and start to become the murmuration of a human imagination for the Earth that we always wanted to live into. And so Project Biom is an easy place for you to tap into. On that nonprofit side, we would love to have your participation, your support, in alignment with your family office or whatever resources you may command in your world, that alignment would be a beautiful murmuration there.

And so I'm seeing everything as I come out of this death cycle, the Phoenix Rising is this much higher, higher complexity of interaction that will allow systems to interact with billions and trillions of dollars to start to participate in this upward ascension of the re-remembering of humans within the context of our nature within every industry, within a government, within a political construct. And so natural law is starting to be expressed in this ecosystem.

And so there's a lot of places for you guys to engage now with the imagination of everybody who's participated in my ecosystem over these last 15 years. And so lean in, be curious, and maybe see in there something of your own beauty and release what you're holding on to so that it can fly. We can go in flight together. Fly, we shall, my friend.

Appreciate you. Thank you, everybody, for tuning into this episode. See you next week.