Know Thyself - E200 - Ido Portal: The Body Knows What the Mind Can't

Episode Date: June 23, 2026

Ido Portal is one of the most original movement thinkers alive. He has spent decades studying the body across martial arts, acrobatics, yoga, dance, and ancient movement traditions, not to master any one of them, but to ask a deeper question: what does it actually mean to move well, and what does the body reveal when you finally start listening to it? In this conversation, we go long, covering ground that most movement conversations never reach.What We Dive Into:1.Most of us treat the body like a car to maintain, something we service occasionally for performance or appearance. Ido's entire framework starts from the opposite premise: the body is not a tool you use, it is what you are. That shift alone changes what practice means.2.What we attend to grows. What we neglect crumbles. Ido applies this principle everywhere, from babies in hospitals to athletes on the field. Bringing undivided attention to even one part of your body for one minute, with no music, no phone, no audience, begins a transformation most people have never experienced.3.The most important moment in Ido's own journey was admitting he didn't have what he was looking for. Not as defeat, but as a beginning. The person who thinks they already have a connection to their body is the one most closed off to finding it. Not knowing, and staying there, is the actual practice.Know Thyself, but not by yourself. A guided space to return home to yourself.https://www.knowthyselfcollective.com✨THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS:https://drinkLMNT.com/KnowThyselfTry LMNT & get a free sample pack https://www.functionhealth.com/KNOWTHYSELFCode KNOWTHYSELF25 for $25 off membership___________00:00 Intro01:44 How Most People Relate to Their Body09:22 Movement vs. Practice vs. Exercise10:27 Life Is for Practicing, Not Just Living20:13 Attention as the Primary Tool23:49 Stop Practicing for Exposure28:12 How to Begin: Removing Leakage35:22 Diagnostic Play and the Art of Seeing37:30 The Ancient Schools of Practice43:33 Tensegrity and the Body's Inner Models49:28 Proprioception, Sensing, and the Pain of Feeling1:02:05 Tension, Connection, and What the Body Actually Needs1:08:00 Ido's Journey: Searching for a Real Teacher1:13:15 Why Real Teachers Refuse to Give Clean Answers1:23:49 What Am I Before Who Am I1:29:23 The Chariot Analogy: Body, Emotion, and Intellect1:36:42 Feeding the Emotional Body1:40:14 The Weber-Fechner Law and Reducing Inner Noise1:52:29 How the Body Reveals What We Hide2:02:15 Pursuing Weakness Over Strength2:05:46 Discipline, Motivation, and Real Will2:16:02 The Practice of Sitting and Choiceless Awareness2:37:22 What Inner Work Without the Body Misses2:41:31 The Heart as the Missing Path2:45:55 Community Questions: Practical Tools for the Body2:57:18 On Animals, Archetypes, and the Spirit of Movement3:03:02 Closing Message: Become a Practice___________✨MORE FROM IDO↳Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/portal.ido/↳https://www.idoportal.com📜MORE FROM KNOW THYSELF↳Spotify: https://spoti.fi/4bZMq9l↳Apple: https://apple.co/4iATICX↳Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/knowthyself/↳TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@andreduqum↳Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/knowthyselfbyandreduqum/↳https://knowthyselfpodcast.com/👁️MORE FROM ANDRÉ↳Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/@andreduqum↳Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/company/know-thyself-podcast↳Book recs: https://www.knowthyselfpodcast.com/book-list/book-list

We say my body betrayed me without realizing I betrayed my body before. We disrespected it in many ways and now we're here. How would you diagnose how most people are relating to their body? The body lies a lot less. It's very honest. Just listen to your body. I don't believe them. Listen to it.

You're not on the right channel at all. What you hear is a lot of corrupted data. I distrust this. So then I searched for movement teachers. I couldn't find anyone. I met big practitioners, gurus, and I realized there is nothing here. I don't have it.

I looked for someone who has it. Couldn't find. I said, okay, I'll become that person. Next realization, I can't do it. And with that, I stayed. Now we can start to look at things. What we don't attend to crumbles, dies. Attention gives life.

You don't attend to your child? The child will develop problems. And yes. Attention replaces the tension. If people would place their attention in their shoulder for one minute, undivided attention, they will transform to such a level that. Ito Portel, it's such a pleasure to have you here. I have been loving your work for many years, seeing the inspiring stuff you share online through podcasts,

and also through your movement practices over the, I think this conversation is going to provide a beautiful, it's just going to be a beautiful addition to a lot of the conversations we have on this show because you really are a pioneer and sharing the body as a vehicle for self-exploration and self-discovery. And we live in such a heady culture. And I'm curious for you, in your words, how would you diagnose the current state of how most people in society and modern culture

are relating to their body and movement. Yeah, it's a strong moment for, it's a good time for the body because it's missing. The heart is well, but those three paths, let's say they are not balanced and not pursued. And so the current state of affairs with the body, is approached through very limited models of our physicality, of our being.

A lot of it comes from exercise perspective. Very crude, very disrespectful for the human body, for what it is, for ourselves. the self, this self, the head self is actually surprisingly a small part of the picture, I believe. But it hijacks a lot of the attention and of course all of our culture has been built and developed around it so it took us away. and to go back is not as simple as just you know

the slogans you know just listen to your body I don't believe that listen to you you're not on the right channel at all you can listen to your body but what you hear is a lot of

corrupted data so the first thing is to modify the model our connection to the body. It has to be refined and made deeper in ways more sophisticated in ways more simpler. It's not just about some kind of a car that you drive around and you get to places. It is you. You don't have a body. You are the body. You are the body the brain is in the body it's part of the body and the connection to movement is that it is the vehicle the thing that really put us here in this state not mathematics that's a side

effect, not music. In the sense, all those things were involved, counting, rhythms, music, but the way that it affected us is through movement. And those are also movement realms in many ways. So the first step is education, to realize that we don't have a proper connection to the body, which most people, unfortunately, realize in the point of crisis when we say my body betrayed me without realizing I betrayed my body before. So you feel in many ways we've disrespected the body, not honored it in the way that it wants to be moved and used? Yeah, I don't beat myself up over it, but I, there is a value in remorse.

Because without it, there is no real power to change. The declarations, but they don't last. More words. So I'd like to take that responsibility. and you've used the word correctly, we. We disrespected it in many ways and now we're here. And we can start to take personal responsibility, but it sounds like this I need to take the responsibility.

We went wrong, but only I can fix it. And each one of us turning back in and being the change is the way and it was something instinctual for me I just yesterday I was in an Uber and had a conversation with the driver and he asked

what do you do and I told them how did you get to work with the body and I said because I distrust this and in many ways it was this instinct that I can't be trusted and that sensation, that internal lie, that deep, deep lie beyond underneath all the lies,

the lie that we tell ourselves, the words in our head, they're rarely truth. Maybe they can't even be truth because words cannot be that truth, but they're not even simulations of truth. They're a simulacrum that they're removed from what is being. are not containers, there may be pointers that by now are pointing at nothing. The body lies a lot less. It's very honest. When I move or when I move with someone, I know the truth. Or when we talk, who knows? It feels like you have an incredibly holistic understanding of the body, of the body as a doorway to explore trapped emotions, to explore self-expression,

and you have explored many different formats and modalities to add something. They all add something. And it's much a deeper understanding than the conventional Western understanding of exercise and movement and the way that we kind of live our life very much so identified with our thoughts moving through the world and view movement as something that we should do for our health, maybe an hour a day.

You invite it as a living practice in a much deeper context. So we'll bring this down to the individual and to the practical, but there is this understanding of exercise as a form of movement. And I'm just curious, what is your analysis of that in contrast with the way that you understand movement? There are few things here that are kind of mingling together. movement and exercise and breaking down exercise

part of it is movement but the other part is practice and now we can extract these two very powerful words practice and movement now you can get rid of the exercise so I'm really deeply

I'm the practice person. Movement serves practice. It is a way. It is one of the most major way. One side of the equation. One side of the spectrum. The other side is stillness.

And practice is what we are here to do. Life is not for living. That's the lie. Life is for practicing. In the sense that this here is a school. That's why we're here. Or else, there is no meaning to our visiting here. We are here to discover something, to learn something,

transform something, transmute something. So that informs everything that I do. Now movement is very important. Physical movement is and other movements. Movement, emotions are e-motion, right? Like it's there, it's inside. It's about movement. And also the abstraction, the conceptual side also is about movement in many ways.

So what did we do? we do the bare minimum. We're corrupted. For longevity's sake, for feeling better, for looking better. This is our connection to ourselves. We take, we take and we give the bare minimum. How can I get this going in 10 minutes a day?

What was it? Four minute abs, you know? So, of course, we suffer. the results. This is the temple. This is the thing. This is who we are. This is where we are. This is what we are. Of course, this connection is not working well. And this is a very heavy news. But we can turn it into a proactive thing and into a very beautiful thing. And we can find our way back to ourselves. Without this, the other path is the path of stillness. It's also a very powerful path. The path of stillness give rise to movement. The path of movement gives rise to stillness. And eventually, you reach that point. The multistability. You have to be able to see both at the same time, like the peripheral vision.

So the practice itself, now it's in the context. I'm here for myself. I'm here to transform myself. I don't like the word develop, but it's not directed. I don't know what I'm supposed to transform into. and I don't even want to dictate it. That would be corrupted already. But I have an idea that I'm here to get some work done.

Like an improvisation, like this conversation. I don't know the next sentence I'm going to say, but I am present to what needs to come out right now. That is the practice. And now the movement side, take it to the physical. now I can see all the needs. The needs are not neuromuscular needs. Joints, range of motion, flexibility.

It's so much more complex than that. Every day that passes, we discover. One of the jokes is that we tend to break the, we eat a cake and we analyze and we write down a reverse engineered recipe. And it never ends up being the cake when we try to do it. So we work on all these attributes. One plus one plus one equals 17.

The practice informs you on that. So, yeah, I work on my strength and on my flexibility and on my stamina, endurance, energy system. But I also work on rhythmicality, organizational capacities of the body, breath, interaction with connectivity, internal architecture, organization of the form, the use of the eyes, conceptual aspects of movement, pattern recognition, and endless and less more. and many of them, I don't even have words for them, but they are inside the practice. So this for me is a proper practice. It's very rich, maybe overwhelming for people.

That's okay, it is what it is. It's just words right now. It can be something that eventually becomes approachable and simple, but like anything from the outside, it scares us, you know? but it's extremely the most powerful vehicle that I know or else I would have done something better do you think that it's the most powerful that you've experienced

because in a way it has been the most direct and immediate access I think through words the philosophical the theoretical there's something so powerful about the immediacy of the body, you know, and our ability to move it in this moment. You mentioned the balance and the dance between, right, movement and stillness, the complementary forces that exist within all life, the contraction and relaxation and activation and Shiva, the Shakti, the all, you know, and it sounds like you've applied that understanding through these various different mechanisms. So my hope We'll see where this conversation takes us

But that it can be really enriching for individual's lives To have more context for the importance of the body For how movement is an essential component Often under-explored and utilized And some things they can carry into their next movement practice Whatever form it is Whether it's yoga or weightlifting Or something of a combination between everything

how would you so to speak reverse engineer the cake understanding that we're going to fail but these different elements of movement how do you sort of cut the cake there it's

it's good you started with one thing and then you finished with another which is really the core of it we first there is what can be

be done within each scenario. This podcast is such a scenario. We want to get something done, the actionable bits, the pragmatic things. But this is corrupting us again. Because if I must go for the actionable bit, I am simplifying the model and the approach to the place where it kills it. So it becomes again one more meaningless stuff. This is what

we have around. This is what we have on the internet, on the tutorials, on the short videos. We know more than ever and we understand less than ever in this sense.

And the real change is not coming but there is a potency to this situation. I must respect it. The potency is open a door, enter the room, there's another door in the end, and continue.

If there would be a process that unravels from this, it would become extremely powerful. For many people who run into this idea for the first time, it's grabbing a hold of them. Now we can discuss also pragmatic bits because they do have their room, they do have their place. Now that we've mentioned this,

This is not some kind of another thing. Another approach, another podcast episode, another guest, another talk. Not because it's me, I'm saying it. Because if it was, I wouldn't be doing this. In the honesty of being in service, what can be done? How do we start? I ask the question sometimes to people in an education scenario. What is impossible for you to get?

What is impossible for you to get? To get to acquire. What is the most impossible thing to acquire? What you already possess? but you already possess it so let's scratch that off what you think you already possess

that's the problem this is the beginning I don't have it I don't have a connection to my body I don't understand nothing about it I don't my practice this is what I realized

and I practiced all my life like at a certain moment I was studying another discipline and martial arts and acrobatics and sports and powerlifting and yoga and I'm asking questions okay okay but movement behind it

so then I searched for movement teachers I couldn't find anyone it was all specific it was all corrupted was all bent to a very specific flavor but it wasn't really the being able to move well. And that started on the physical side, but it progressed to the human being.

I met big practitioners of spiritual traditions and, you know, gurus. I realized, in a bad situation, there is nothing here. The guy closing his eyes, keeping a certain look or a charisma. In a better scenario, there was a skill that was super specific,

that when I moved at one inch to the side, the skill crumbled, like Michael Jordan trying to play baseball. The greatest of all time. But it didn't work. But there were other things. There was a bow jackson. Not comparing different times, different things, but still, maybe it's not even important

if it's possible or not to do this. The important thing is you go to play baseball. You decide to go to do it and then there is a gap between what you thought you were about to do and what actually gets done. So for me, that was a moment of realization. I don't have it. And so I looked for someone who has it, couldn't find. Said, okay, I'll become that person.

Next realization, I can't do it. And with that I stayed. So now it's a life contract. I can't do it, but it's a good place to be. Trying to do it. Very good goal. This is the beginning of the process. in many ways.

Now we can start to look at things. Now we can start to look at feeling the body, for example. Many years I practiced many things. I didn't even feel my body while doing those things. World champions I worked with. Nobody's home. World championships, you know, like standing on the stage I'm behind, thinking to myself,

the robot doing this. So one of the first things is to go back into sensing things and people can apply. It's painful. Painful. For example, you practice with music always. Remove. You will experience pain, discomfort.

If you always practiced with music. If you listen to podcasts-wise, you're practicing, remove. Now, listen to the podcast. Separately. Separate all these activities. Then you will discover what is there, actually. No bells and whistles, no phone filming me.

I took away from myself. For example, the exposure of my body. I said, what is this beautiful body for? For them? If it's for you, don't show it to anyone. Next thing. I stopped moving beautifully. What is this for?

For me? If it's for me, I do it and I don't show anyone. Then you can find your way back to expose your practice, but not to practice for exposure. It's very different when the situation is designed from this place or from the other. It looks the same on the screen, but it's very different. There are podcasts and there are podcasts. You know it?

There is a certain intention. There is a certain mode of being. Do you even have the capacity to be here for your podcast? Many people don't. They don't have a practice and they don't have the capacity. So what is going to come out? What we don't attend to? crumbles

dies attention gives life you look at the flower the flower grows you stop looking at it it dies try it with a child you will see

you don't attend to your child the child will develop problems disorders entropy going in chaos and breaking first the psychological layer and eventually

all the way up to the physical layer where nowadays in hospitals and special facilities where children are abandoned and they are raised by the staff, they must be held the babies for a certain amount of time because we know that they develop all kinds of syndromes and issues if they're not attended to. It's not just a touch. It's not enough.

Take a robot, have him rock the baby. you will see, the syndromes are still there. It's the attention. It's not enough even that the nurse does this. You look at your phone while doing it, not the same. The attunement. Yes. And we have to bring this into our physical practice.

So we don't need to change much. That's the good news. Here is the first piece of advice. Try to find a way to improve a little thing, not a lot. not everything. Don't remove the music and this and the takeaway everything from yourself. It will become so painful that you won't engage with the activity. Lower the bar.

Do something small. If you practice for one hour and you always do it with music, try the less 10 minutes, remove the music. Work your way up. Be attentive to what you're doing. You will start to transform the practice and transform yourself. You can apply it also in the unofficial practice, not only on the official practice,

while cooking your eggs in the morning or while being in a conversation like this. I am just doing this thing. I'm not doing any other thing. I'm not traveling anywhere. I'm not in the past. I'm not in the future. This is the only thing that is running here.

I practiced for it and I practice every day for it. So I'm capable of doing it. but everybody is. The other side, also a pragmatic piece of advice. If you find difficulties in doing what I suggested, and even if not,

and you wish to progress more, start to look for leakages. What are the things that you're doing which make this problematic? Because you might not be able to be applying action towards it it might be totally blocked, which is what happens these days. You need to start to remove stuff first.

Stuff with the phone. Stuff with multitasking. We're almost training ourselves into this bad state. It's almost, if you look at our lives, the way that people are living, it's almost a training program for a destruction. of everything beautiful. And when you stop, you stop leaking, you start to accumulate.

Energy starts to build up. And this will allow the presence and the service to go towards the action, towards the practice. So I don't start, usually when I need to talk to people through a podcast, I don't start with, you know, I can give some physical advice and I have in the past, you know, practice this,

practice this, practice that, and people can watch online, can go on YouTube and look at my old blog. It's there, but this is more important. And then we can progress like this, each step. What have you found most people come to you and have come to you for guidance? Everything and anything.

I work with, Alzheimer patients in their 80s, prodigy musicians, government bodies. I work in cinema designing movement for movies, military organizations, special units, athletes from all kinds of sports, and with physicists and mathematicians. Everything and anything. once a person realize what I'm actually offering and what I'm actually doing and facilitating and guiding, it's so diverse.

What is the fundamental thing you are facilitating that can be applied to so many different fields? Practice. Practice of oneself. Because what is performing whatever that person is performing? The person. And what is the limiting factor? Often the person.

Not some kind of a technical layer, some kind of a robot suit that we put on, our technical suit. This also has limitations, problems, but usually it's distorted because it sits on a distorted self. So it takes the shape of that. So even when there are technical errors, many times you can locate them in the lower stratas.

it is a practice of oneself. And in that sense, we are never a finished product. There is no stability. My teacher says, there are no parking spot here in this reality. The parking spot is

the eye of the storm. The storm will be run. That's the stillness. That is the real stillness. It is in the presence of the storm. Trying to look for other stillness takes you to a very bad place. Hey guys, a quick share from a partner of ours.

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You don't even have to send it back. Go to drinklmn-t.com slash know-thyself to get a free eight-count. sample pack of their most popular flavors with any purchase link down below i hope you enjoy so what would a sports player come to you they've obviously had decades trying to become the best in their craft and learning the technique of whatever it is pitching swinging a bat kicking a ball shooting a ball and there is something because of the multidisciplinary approach that you bring to movement and understanding practice that adds something that their traditional approach to technique doesn't provide.

And that's why it can be applied to so many different areas and fields. So if we were to take, how would you work with somebody in sports case versus an Alzheimer's case and what you provide there? Yeah. It's a process. It's a diagnostic process that is. getting to see and to like for example tomorrow I start to work with a fighter for a few for a week I just finished a day before yesterday working with a baseball player and after that I work with an NFL player and in between I have an Alzheimer's patient and and every time it's this we play this is what I do My diagnostics is all kinds of games.

These kind of games, there are a little trick to see who's there on the other side of the line. You get to see. Emotionally, you get to see the emotional stability, the emotional management. You get to see the sharpness. You get to see the clarity or the fog. and the specific flavor of it.

It goes into higher resolutions. You get to see how the body is organized. We use words like posture. It's dead. Posture is not a position. Poster is an organizational capacity, dynamic, a life, like a flame. This is one of the very important and problematic things.

How do you organize? yourself. Here I do this, here I do that. Here I drop a ball. Here I give you a stick and I ask you to do a certain things. These things looking from outside are not really understood for what they are and I like it. It's not for everyone. Why? Everybody got equal opportunity, but it is for those who understand. At the year 530, more or less, we close down the less real schools, the schools of antiquity, the philosophical schools. And that's kind of, it's not a point, it's not really a point in time. It was a process. Those schools, when we use the word philosophy, those philosophical you know, Aristos, Pythagoras, the legendary Pythagorean schools,

and from older, more ancient, you know, cultures predating that, which we don't know a lot, but the Dravidians, endless. Those were not philosophy words. Those are, that's a total misunderstanding of what was there. It's closer to words. what I do, then to the philosopher in the university. When you dig deep, you hear it, you see it, you read it. This is what I'm offering.

And since we close down schools, people are the result of the schooling that they received industrial era schooling, making productive workers. for the factories, even the better schooling systems. And they are better. They all have advantages and disadvantages. And the more you go, the more you see movement and practice

in all kinds of ways. Like you go to Anthroposophy, you look at Waldorf schools, the kids learn the language, the alphabet, they dance it. They don't write it first. There's a reason why. And in kindergarten, they don't promote them reading

and they don't read to them in many places. This is the time of the body. Don't take this time away. Why? There is a multi-stage missile. Each stage, if it's not completed, the next stage. Steiner gave this example of imagine you would go into the abdomen cavity of a pregnant woman

and the embryo is inside with the eyes closed and you take a flashlight and you light in front of their eyes and their eyes open and he mentions for the rest of their lives they will have weak eyes. in this sense if the physicality is not properly developed the person is not properly developed don't get confused by an Albert Einstein

that's why many of our geniuses took their life away I have respect for suicide I don't put it in a pedestal in a place where it's a cop out I think we should have a lot of respect towards it,

but still, it's important to understand. It's not done from a place of sepuku. That's not that type of suicide. I mean a suicide of jumping out of the window, you know, in a moment. Gilles-Delle-S style, one of my favorite authors and one of the most powerful thinkers in the 20th century. But still, moment of pain. So I think this is the offering is,

let's go back into this schooling. And I don't mean we go back to crawling. I'm not in that natural perspective. Sometimes people assume I do. Like, I'm going to make you crawl. Now it's going to solve all your developmental, you know, pieces. It's not as simple as that, unfortunately. unfortunately. But definitely a musician or a mathematician can gain a lot by working on certain

physical skills and also emotional skills. And when the things become a lot more holistic in your words or even a better word harmonious, the whole thing will grow. Without it, It's not a growth, it's a distortion, it's an inflammatory growth, even the intellect, that those high IQ individuals, okay, high IQ. High IQ can be potent, but it can be a hundred times, a thousand times more potent when it's accompanied by a balanced system. If you're emotionally, the emotional schema is out of control, many people with some of the highest IQ people, they didn't end up contributing something like the theory of relativity. It didn't end up doing nothing.

They're working the gas station in the end. And it represents this distortion. I think one concept that's interesting, I want to get your perspective on is 10th security, this idea of how everything is interconnected through the muscular, facial nervous system.

And because again, we do have a Cartesian way of understanding and splitting the body into parts, why is it important that we understand everything in the body is connected and one thing has changed, the other is altered?

It's important because we are simulation machines, we are modeling machines, we don't interact with reality in the direct way that we believe we interact with. When I see you, I don't see you. I see the simulation I constructed. I don't have a direct contact with reality.

So the same way I don't have a direct contact with my body. So what do I interact with a model of my body? And if the model is not sophisticated, if the model, it's like seeing you in 360 pixels per, that the resolution is crude, that's what we did with these neuromuscular models, balls and levers, all da Vinci drawings, beautiful, but they've more,

moved us into a place. Words like the spinal column destroyed more spines. The words damaged spines because it's not a column. And treating it like a column destroys it.

It seeps in. It goes into everything that you do. How I feel it. You see this fold in my clothes? That's not my hip joint. The hip joint is not here. the hip joint is far away from this point and by me thinking, feeling,

without even words, I'm just like, that's my hip joint. I damage my hips, hip replacement because of this. That's why it's important to work with more and more and more refined models, which is the correct model, tell me. There is no correct model. Correct. All models are wrong, but some are useful.

That's a very powerful from George Box, I believe it is. It means I don't have a saying in it. I have to work with models and they will be wrong. The models I'm working with are wrong, but they're useful. If I look back, everything that I did with people was wrong. And it worked. I look at the way, I look at the tools.

They were all wrong. Nowadays, I realize it, it worked. It fixed the shoulders. Some of it didn't work. I improved. I tried to improve. And the models I have right now that I'm presenting to you are wrong. this is not how things are

but it's useful and it will take us to the next moment that's why for example the word fascia and the interaction with connective tissue with pressure distribution in the body

is a very positive step I think it's a good thing to work with for a while there are more there is more deeper things and more sophisticated things. Don't stop there.

Some people devote their life to it. That's the answer. That's the thing, you know. I don't belong to that camp. I think it's worthwhile to work with it for a while. And then you will find a way to more things. And so I designed the way that I'm working with myself, with my models, with people,

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and use gift code Know Thyself 25 for a $25 credit towards your membership. Everything's linked down in the description below. As always, back to the episode. You mentioned sort of the first step being like meeting your body where it's at, feel your body. I've heard you speak to this a lot before, just around appropriate sets,

properceptive and kinesthetic awareness and gaining our ability to become aware of what's happening internally it feels like i know for certain most of my life just like completely oblivious and unaware of how my body where it is in time and space what things are happening the sensations within my body my organs and my limbs and um is it just a practice of bringing awareness into it or how can how can people increase that awareness of their interoceptive, kinesthetic? It's by... Our most potent currency is our

attention. It's by placing the attention. And again, I'm giving you these answers and I feel the disappointment, the pain, not from you, from people listening to it.

This is the responsibility. It's so simple. I can take you through now 20 minutes or 200 minutes or 2,000 minutes of a practice, just paying attention, drawing your attention, moving your attention. And you'll be shocked, absolutely shocked. All the psychedelic people bring them on what it will do to you. Just paying attention for 2,000 minutes.

Of course, the first challenge is, to be able to do that, you have to build up, you have to work with it. That's why body scans are one of the methods, one of the most primary methods in many spiritual traditions. But I think it became dogmatic as well and limited as well. To be embodied in that way is one of the biggest gifts that a person can receive and give themselves and it can improve every day.

and it's like it's like a piggy bank you put your coins slowly slowly slowly and it turns out into a beautiful thing people have a sense I believe I feel these days I don't have time

for this so what do you do with your time that's the question what do you do with your time I don't believe them I think it's an internal lie while I'm coming here in the Uber that's what I did

that's what I do I just place my attention there I'm just embodied in this thing and I keep coming back to it and then comes a thought so I look at it do I need to address anything no all good and comes something else

comes a certain sensation this is the default mode that's where we have to come back to it's not like you don't have time for this the rest you might not have time to if you don't have time for this this is the default this is the thing you have to revert back to

this is how I fall asleep this is how I practice this is how when I'm talking to you there is part of my attention some kind of a background layer just like I still see the room, even though I'm looking at you directly, it's this comes back. And when this comes back, it's very pleasant, it's very powerful for us. It's very healing. The body can heal itself.

Things work business-wise, process-wise, relationship-wise. Because all of a sudden you realize that all these discourse, these things that are happening, are happening on top of something in this sense. Courage wrote, I don't feel horror because I dreamed. I'm haunted by a sphinx. I dream a sphinx because I feel horror. You see the real state of affairs.

The body informs something. You have like some type of a stomach irritation or ache and from here you break up with your partner it was just a moment they left the dishes in the sink you had the stomach cake

that starts a fight you don't respect me you left the dish so to be embodied it nullifies all of this it takes it away you start to see it Oh, there is a stomach thing here.

It starts way earlier. Like watching your thoughts. You see them born in the distances, the more you practice. So it's that and it clarifies so much. It arranges so much. Hey, people, you don't have time. Your life depends on it. This is our lives.

To be here, embody this is the form. Here, no one breaks this rule. You must be. be embodied. This is also the place where certain traditions that have, you know, worked as if around the body, oftentimes they miss the point. They become distorted. If it's something to get rid of, certain meditators, you see that their body, how it looks.

It's all neglected and broken and like the mind. or consciousness. It's like why consciousness came into this body? It's a disrespectful thing, and I believe it is not the real deal. Of course, I don't want to get caught into the identification with the body. That's the others.

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body in the mind. And I think upon the examination and just even breathing and sitting with and scanning for as little as five to ten minutes, you start to become aware of the different places your body is holding tension that you previously weren't aware of consciously. So for everybody who's listening who is experiencing some form of chronic tension, they have some sort of physical thing that is bothering them that is of course tied to a mental component. How do you address and how you begin to start to work with and explore the tension that the body is holding that wants to be released. You actually already solved the answer to yourself, and it's something important for us to connect in people's heads. Sensing is already getting rid of tension, and tension and sensing cannot coexist.

Of course, it's a scale, it's a teeter-totter. But there are two phases of the same thing, release and sensing. You want to release tension? Great. Sense. Place your attention there. It already releases. I find the instruction, relax or release, to be useless.

Oh, thank you. Like, you know, in boxing, sometimes you hear, it's like, relax, keep relaxing. Oh, yeah, thanks. It's like I forgot to react. There is no tool. The tool is, hey, pay attention here. What will happen when you pay attention?

You will decrease tension. Attention replaces the tension. But you will not feel it, Because the decrease would be very, very small. What happens next? Tell me. I go to get rid of my tension. I am instructed to pay attention.

It doesn't work. What happens next? Give up. Yes. I abandon this. This is the problem. If people would place their attention in their shoulder for, one minute, undivided attention,

they will transform to such a level that I left because if people would know, if I would have received the impression of what happens these days when I'm working, I would be 10 years ago, I wouldn't believe it. So what we do is often we think about it. we don't actually we replace the body scans that people are often doing they're thinking of these words

these body parts this shoulder oh the low back pain the lower back yeah and that's why or a headache yesterday I had a headache I'm a bit jet lagged

and came from far away and I'm after six and a half hours of talking in another podcast I'm driving back a headache I'm a bit dehydrated and jet-legged and talking for so many hours.

I just closed my eyes. I just did a little sensing of my eyeballs. Within, I kid you not, a minute, dissolved. And I made it another mental point for myself. It's, wow, remember how amazing it is. Because after many years of doing it, it's like you also. This is the shocking thing for people to maybe hear. You know how bliss feels?

Boring. Would you believe it? After you get into these states and you stabilize them for a while, you strengthen, you know how it feels? Boring. It can become boring even. So going back to samsara can be a pleasure as well in some ways. This is the same. So I have to actually make a mental note for myself.

This is amazing because I can also say there is a headache and it's great as well. So this is the path to get rid. Not to try to stretch it. You're just fighting it. Not to try to take a pill, you take a cup. Maybe you need on the short term. Maybe you even need help to start a process.

like a hot bath or a sauna or taking a painkiller to bring yourself to lower the bar so you can sense that but the very potent thing that I teach my students and practice a lot is to sense various places deep in the anatomy or shallow in various layers the skeleton and the soft tissues the kind of liquidity of the body and then other more subtle things as well

certain points that are maybe not anatomical anymore maybe it's a I don't maybe an esoteric layer what about on the flip side where do you see most people lack tension because would you say that's not

also another important component and also the cause of tension in other areas as a lack of proper tension or organization? Usually it's a lack of connection more than lack of tension and we see the result in some kind of a local

laxity or weakness so we blame it on tension and we try to tense it back up and this is a big problem also in our approach to injuries etc. That's why a power lifter who can deadlift a house, bends down to take their babies from the backseat

hurt their back with 10 pounds. But nobody's calling it, the king is naked. Is it strength that is correlated to this? Or another one is the importance of muscle mass for longevity. Right? mentioned these days by all kinds of buffed up people and, you know.

And then they love to mention the blue zones. Where's the muscle mess there? They look like these buffed up guys from California here? Nah, king is naked. Yeah, there is a truth to the importance of muscle mess.

But it's nothing connected to this TRT, this, this, nah, it's not it. You need some basic muscle. This is already costing you in health, in longevity and in movement. When you look at a bodybuilder, when they're young and then after, what did they train themselves into immobility? Don't you see it?

Isn't this clear? But it's often mentioned as a movement practice. And even some bodybuilders maintain their flexibility. right they could do the splits so what you can do the splits splits are useless in movement most of the time you just need a little rotation somewhere that is missing so people lack more the connection side and it also is informed by paying attention

great we have a meta tool by paying attention now you can apply it in your strength training pay attention that's the mind muscle connection and they're right they experientially discovered that they're right, that it works,

that it's important and also pay attention in your yogic practice or in your stretching practice or in your somatic practice to get rid of it. It's a meta tool and now you can pay attention

there and increase the attention and organize and connect or you can pay attention with the inclination towards release. I would imagine through all the different practices over the years, you gain different flavors into understanding the body. Just as a quick overview, was it Capoeira you started with? No, even before the Chinese and Japanese martial arts. So the martial arts, Capuera,

what else? What were the what were the what not? Yeah, what and high. Yeah, a lot of different disciplines and I worked as an acrobat on stage and dance and improvisation

and somatics and gymnastics and physical theater and on and on and on. Who have you found is the most connected to their body of all of them? In terms of disciplines I found more individuals

than disciplines. This individual here, this individual there, there is some kind of a connection. But oftentimes still very specific flavors that you see it just in the field. But I learned that when you move a person to the side, they crumble. And people are surprised.

Like, even with myself, people would give me this credit. He's a great mover. And he said, what do you know about me? You know, you have no idea. People present me, you know, the world's biggest expert on movement. And if I am, what do you know about it? You need to be an expert to know I'm an expert.

So you don't know an expert from a charlatan. And maybe I am that charlatan. So I think this is what happens with the specific disciplines. we see an amazing practitioner and we don't know where it's coming from. Is it really the person underneath, the mover, or is it a technical layer? And we have world champions

and best of all times in history from both. I don't want to present the picture as if this is superior because when tested in soccer, in this and that, you can get resolved. from a robot and you you see the differences

as well you have a you have a Ronaldo and you have a messy both great but very very different and it comes from different places one thing that I'm curious

actually about is has there been a progression from you maybe identifying with the performance and aesthetic of how something looks to more of the connection and how something feels

from your younger years to now certainly feels like there's been a big softening in the way that you communicate and in your presence that I'm picking up. What does anything come up there? Soft, not soft. You're right.

From the outside, this is the thing, but I'm still very connected also to other things. And as well, the quality of why and how it comes about, whether it's softness or not, is more important than the thing itself. Is there a reason to put the fire on? If there is, I want to be able to connect to it in this way, in that way. And if not, I want to not. And that's what I learned more with myself and through the practice.

to be of service. If I was a bit easier, I would say to be of service of my divine self. I devote myself to you. I speak to you. I want to give service to that. So there is this lower strata that are here and they're always here. You don't dissolve this.

It's a lie. you swallow them. It's not the solution means you're gone. You're not here. It's possible. But it's going away.

This has to be coagulated into this shape, form. To be here, you have to be so the ego doesn't dissolve. Not fully. It's just digested. realized for what it is, etc., become part

of something bigger. So you're becoming in that service and in that way, softness or not softness, it is there. I don't put on, I try not to put on some kind of an act but to be connected

to the service of what is needed and the situation, from service to myself to service to the situation, to service to another person. person to service to the community. It's the, the path is short. The past is, the past is one of egoism for altruism. Direct altruism is a lie.

Because there is no potency to do anything anyways. It can be appreciated and it teaches you a lot. if you're depressed, that's a good, that's a good advice, piece of advice. Just do charity. It's a very potent medicine. Do for others. But again, you go back to the egoistic. So this is also that service works through this thing.

It has to work from the inside to the outside. And that was, that's the journey. It's not was, it is the journey. to be more accurate towards it, towards what's needed, what you need, what you require with your curiosity, your question. And maybe there is a place where there is no requirement also to realize, okay, that's it. This is where, you know, or someone else or the audience or, you know,

where people are standing. I want to help. I want to be of service. But I don't want to mislead people. I don't want to give them some kind of a whether it's a positive thing or a hopeful thing or I want to give them that when it's going to work out well, you know.

I don't want to give some kind of a pragmatic tool that is just corrupting the person another moment. So in this sense, I used to be pushing very hard to fit the shape in. And that was not of service. So I got a head to go. I can sense your, and I'm curious your thoughts on it, but the way that you approach answering questions,

I can feel sometimes a resistance to giving a cleanly neat fit answer to the thing. And I've noticed a lot of teachers who are really good at what they do, avoid providing cleanly knit, like neat conclusions for people because it almost is a death to the curiosity and exploration

for somebody externally. It's not the motivation. It's not the motivation behind it, but it is simply because it's a lie. That's the only thing. It's a lie, that conclusive thing. It's dead. It's stopped.

The thought, it's a living thing. It's a paradoxical as well. I contradicted myself a few times already. Like, for example, I told you that sensing something is getting rid of tension. It's the same thing. And then we used it for tension. That's something for people. to resolve. How does that fit? And it's there. There is more. Part of the method of the teacher,

the real teacher, it's not all, maybe often mention, lies, ambiguity, incompleteness, riddles, parables. The real teacher, that's how they work, because they want to help, because they want to deliver, because there is no other way to keep. certain things. The conclusive, the tick-tac-tac-tac-tac is the charlatan. Sometimes the charlatan is such that they charlatan themselves first. And that's the more common thing. It's like not people don't have like they don't try to manipulate.

They are already manipulated. Yeah. So they answer in this clean way. And you know the Dunning-Kruger curve, right? The expert, which is. not the top of the mountain, for sure. There is no top of the mountain, but it's not even nothing. The expert knows it's complex.

It refuses to give you the conclusion. You speak to Huberman about neurology. Like he did yesterday. Yeah. And so it's, he's not going to give you conclusions. He's going to describe a pretty complex reality. And then from that, he still makes it a point to give a protocol. And we can do that.

And I have done this. and we can do this and it's important to do and good, but we have to realize it also corrupt. Because it's like, okay, I got it. I got it. Look, I can play this game. Can give a few protocols for people. It's like, that's what you're going to do this for 10 minutes.

You're going to wake up, the morning routine. It's like if I can work through the nausea, I can do that. but I make a joke but it's not it's not the point they can find this already in many ways it's not being of service of the situation

the situation is stop stop reading stop buying more books putting them on your bookshelf you never read the books that are already there stop you don't need another workshop you don't need another thing you don't need another

stop for a moment you can continue after but stop for a moment take a moment reflect maybe you hear those words you finish the recording ponder

an activity that we remove from our lives go on a walk think about it maybe it will change the rest of your life that's powerful and the protocol doesn't allow me debt. It sends me somewhere else. I got it. Good. Thank you. You pay. Keep going.

I think our ability to discern what's authentic and true for us in any given moment and the place things are coming from, right? Because you could come on this podcast and answer my questions, for example, for many different places internally, trying to prove something, wanting to sound a certain way, or what's spontaneously coming up for you with no agenda of how it's perceived. And I think that level of sensitivity and attunement certainly gets supported by a practice where you have increased your connection and awareness within your body the sensations that are arising within your body does that resonate the body the emotional faculty and the intellect as well and it's a result of practice for sure authenticity is the path but i believe the word

is used in a corrupted way. Authenticity and originality are not almost the same thing. They're opposites. Their originality is what you don't want to pursue. And authenticity is the thing. I'm original. Who cares?

There is a beautiful short story by the Argentine Jorge Luis Borges called Pierre Menard the author of Don Quichot. But Don Quixote was written by Cervantes. So who's Pierre Menard? The story is about

this dude, Pierre Menard, whose dream was to write Don Quixote. But it's already written. Yeah. But he wanted to write it himself. In his way, exactly the same Don Quixote, word per word, but without copying. So first,

he contemplated to become Cervantes. So he would be capable of writing Don Quixote, but then he said, no, no, no, it's too easy. If the task is impossible, let us choose the most impossible of ways without becoming Servantes to remain Pierre Menard and still to be capable of writing exactly word by word without copying. This is authenticity. Do you see how it's exactly the opposite

of originality? I'm going to do something different than to the rest. This is the wrong motive. This is corrupted. This is... When you see it, you realize this is evil, hiding inside. I'm going to do my podcast and it's going to be different than the rest. That's the wrong motive.

And like you've pointed out very, very with sensitivity, you can answer this question from a variety of places. And it's important to mention. It's not mentioned often. You're here to prove a point. Do you hear to get people's attention? Do you hear to manipulate into some financial gain? Do you hear to give a quick hope or a positive vibe so people like you?

Or do you here to get a real transformation or a true change or etc? and more and more and more. So authenticity is the deep, deep dive. and one of the most important and core side effects of a real practice, a real human practice. Practice is not something that I control. I do portal, of course not. I don't have a method.

People like to call it, a method. I've created certain methods. People confuse that. Also, I didn't create a system. I just, my name is Ido Portal. That's my given name. So I used my name. But people made it into a brand.

The author is dead. Like the book, the death of the author. Only brands exist now. This is confused with a system. When I talk about practice, I talk about your practice, your practice. My practice. can't give you my practice, it's my practice. It's only working for me. But I can facilitate

finding that practice and authenticity, of course, now you understand, it's part of a major part of that. Because we have to find what is your practice and what is your authentic practice almost before we find ourselves. It's practically the same. But it's, it's practically the same. But it is a better way to interact. I tell people the question, who I am, it's not this question. No, the first question is what I am. This is misunderstood many times of people.

Who am I? I'm asking, I just get corrupted data. I just get distorted things. First look at the machinery, start to work from simple models into more and more sophisticated models. If I want to understand how the iPhone works, you bring me an electronic

mastermind. They cannot make sense of the current blueprint of the iPhone. No one head can make sense of it. So we don't learn how the iPhone works in this way. We start with extremely simple models. Input output processing.

Did you get it? Okay. Now you go to the next model. The same way, know thyself, that's how it works. From crude to more and more and more sophistication to places which cannot be communicated anymore. They're so subtle. Like, for example, the emotional layer

we have those words for the emotion anger this is almost disrespectful for what is really going on there are thousands of emotions happening in a fraction of a second when you go down that rabbit hole and you start to really for years and years and hours a day

pay attention to it you see a richness when the body movement when you look at it in detail It's like it's overwhelming And in that sense We have to start In the current level

In which we can Digest things We have to be respectful The stomach that I currently have And work with that Even this podcast This conversation is problematic in that sense It cannot serve everyone

It serves a very specific cut of the spectrum. Nothing else can happen. Now I can move this, but I cannot open to the side. I cannot make it wider. I just move it. I simplify more. Okay, I hit this audience. Take it here, this audience.

And we together play this game, and it comes about, it's not under my control, but it comes about in the way both of us affecting it. Your questions, the depth of them, the honesty, and my answers in this case. I am one of Mochanui. On July 10th. Maui, you will board my boat

and restore the heart of Tefiti. And here we go. The journey begins. See her light of the night and the sea. The ocean chose you. Let's go save the world. I got you back, chosen one.

Disney's Moana. Boat's neck. His name is Haye. His name is Yum. When he goes in my tum-tom. In theaters July 10th. Yeah, it does seem like there's some sort of relationship to how universally palatable something is and devoid of substance it is. You know, the most popular things often are things that resonate with a certain level of consciousness or understanding.

Nuance and complexity isn't appreciated at less mature levels, you know. yesterday I lamented it in a private conversation with Andrew Uberman and he gave me a positive spin which I really appreciated

and I thanked him for it it's true I feel you I see the same but also you got to understand real curiosity and appreciation will never be buried. So the pendulum swings. Right now we're in a very shallow scenario

and it's already changing in some ways even because of AI. So for example, imperfections become pleasurable. It's like, did you see that glitch? Our coughing or mistakes in words that we've made or it becomes a breath of fresh air, the opposite of what it used to be. So in the same way, this subtlety is already making a comeback.

There are corruptive forces, there are disorders, there is shallowness, great shallowness to our society, to our humanity. And there will always be this whisper. that will bring back something. Maybe it will not be the millions of views, but it's okay. It is what it is.

As we've explored through your practice, the relationship between body, or soma and emotions, what have you learned about how interconnected they fundamentally are and how tied someone's physiological state, the posture they hold, the tension they hold is directly connected to the emotions they visit most consistently in that form of their personality. What's the link there?

You're familiar with the Rasa Kalpana in the Upanishad. There is an ancient analogy, but it's not only there. It's mentioned by Plato in some ways and by other. It's all, it's like the flood. Everybody got a flood. Everybody got a phoenix. life. Yeah. And the resurrection. Yeah. Yes.

So there is power to that. There is a reason for that. The Ratha Kalpana, the chariot analogy, it represents some kind of an observation made by some practitioner, guaranteed. And it shows you this chariot and horses and a driver. And there are more sophisticated ones, and there are less sophisticated ones, and there are many different versions of it. Plato has a different version, and the Upanishad have a different version. There are other versions.

And in this model, the chariot itself represents the physical body. We simplify it. I give you my version or the simple version. The horses are the emotional faculty. And the driver is the intellect in this sense. This is the connection. The driver cannot move the chariot. Unlike what people think, yet if they reflect upon experience,

they would realize that's the reason why we fail to move ourselves. The horses are the ones who are actually responsible to move the chariot. the driver cannot use human language to direct the horses. So you can talk and talk and talk inside the up there. But the prover will prove what the thinker thinks as Robert Anton mentions. The Sphinx is dreamed because you feel horror.

Not horror is felt because you dream the Sphinx. It's useless for me to chronicle my dreams, to report them to you. Those details are dead. It doesn't contain the real essence, which is what constructed the dream. Now, you see a huge lie inside of ourselves. And we tell ourselves, this is what happened, that's what happens.

No, you're constructing it from certain sensations and an entity which we call emotions, which we know very little about. the world's biggest experts on emotions will admit. We don't understand it. We don't know what it is. But without knowing what it is, by the practice itself, you can gain some insight on it.

And you realize, Bruce Lee said, give me some emotional content. Don't just hit. Give me some emotional content. Movement without this is not movement. Thought without this is also limited. This is where the magic happens when the whole thing,

the chariot, the horses, the driver operate together. Now you go. Without it, you're not going. What is the state of affairs? That's a big question to ask. And I often work on it with students. Where is your driver? He's not on the chariot even.

He's somewhere else drunk in a bar. And he doesn't know how to drive. What's the state of your horses? Some of them are famished. They are crippled. Emotionally, we are poor, sick. We narrow down. There are conditions like inability to describe

our emotions. There are all kinds of emotionally deranged horses, wild horses that are not going forward, kicking to the side or breaking the chariot. There are all kinds of psychosis, all kinds of things like that. So this is a very good and powerful tool by some teacher that directs us to start to work and to understand and this is not the important thing is to hear this and say, oh, cool, cool analogy. Now start a practice. This is how I work. I take this, but now for years I'm working with this

by observing, by placing you under certain demands, putting you in a scenario, in a task. Like, for example, I'll put you in front of a partner and you'll put boxing gloves on. And then I ask the partner to touch you first in certain places or to come close to you and then later hit you. and I ask you to observe and to report what you're feeling. And you can be fully, you know, in control,

but the moment that it starts to build up and build up, you'll feel that. Or I can place you on the edge of a building in the height. And these are types of practices, examples, of how we're actually working with emotional modulation. In order to truly develop emotion, You have to feed nutrients, emotional nutrients. It's a stomach as well.

It's not just a modeling thing, this schema, this emotional schema, but you have to feed it. And what do we feed it? Britney Spears. Hollywood movies. Try to watch Tarkovsky. That's a different thing. Try, go to watch contemporary dance.

It's painful in the beginning Well, we tried to make sense I didn't get it That's the point I didn't get it That's the point Stay there Many times

I tell people's like I couldn't make sense of it I stayed there That was the calling A teacher that says something I don't understand that person I go there That's my instinct

That's my thing And this gave me so much this approach. Tom Waits, you know, I mention sometimes I love Tom Waits. When I first heard Tom Waits, it was painful. I'm like, I need to listen. I need to be here. I need to be in that space. And it's not always the entry point is not about what I like and what I did.

And also not what I dislike. It's not about that. It's about I don't understand. Sometimes it's about you dislike what you don't understand. Sometimes you more like it. It depends on certain inclinations. Also with partners. Oh, I really, we really got along.

I have no interest then. Or I do this really well. I don't have interest in doing what I do well. Okay, I can do hands. Well, so I stop doing that. I'm not interested. There is nothing to be gained there for me more. I can squeeze out of the orange very little. This is a proper approach to practice that is not cultivated when we are children. And if it's cultivated, it becomes second nature. For me, I was asked a lot of questions, my mom, not given answers. It was all questions. This is part of our culture as well. A culture of you have to ask the questions. You're required not to provide the answers. What is the right question? So much more promising.

So another way to look at the practice, to be in the question. This is the name of the area of practice. Answers don't provide a lot. Back to your conclusions. Questions are powerful. They're movement. They're sending us. And the right questions,

it's not about answering them. It's about asking them, bringing them into the world and creating huge, powerful. I need to bring air in. I open the window and the air comes in. I don't pump it with machido. This is answering.

So our education that got around, good, 10 correct answers for 10 questions, you got a mark. No, that's not in the real traditions that are really cultivated some of the greatest thinkers. You see just questions. Indian tradition, Jewish traditions, the Muslim tradition for a long while,

all of them contain this quality. I agree that questions in many ways is the genesis of focus. They become the impetus to move our attention into different areas. And I think worthwhile questions can spontaneously arise in a system that doesn't have as much noise as preoccupied with. What is your conception and understanding of the noise that's in the system internally? I've heard you mention the Webner-Ferfetner law. What is that for people that don't understand? Weber-Fekner is about the Weber-Fekner physiological law.

It's not just physiology. I allow myself the leap of faith. It is a law that crosses all strata. And it connects back to that what we talked about, tension and sensation, the relationship. there. Webber Fackner says that the more noise in the system, the more data in the system, the less data of a specific type, disorganized, chaotic, of course, more, the less the ability to sense differences changes. Like, for example, this movement, there was a movement there,

repetitive, back and forth, back and forth. In order for me to sense this, I need to have a certain open slate, an open state of lack of tension. If I hold my arm very tight, I decrease my capacity to sense with my arm. The analogy is holding an iron bar and being blindfolded and a fly sits on it,

you won't be able to detect it. But if you hold a feather, you will. Because the feather has less this rigidity and it will transmit this vibration, even of a fly. But we are the iron bar or the feather. We have this modulation that we can play with, and it's very powerful. Now we get to the flip side of your prior question

before it was about removing tension. So I offered sensation. Now I offer sensation, sorry, before it was sensation for removal of tension. Now I offer removal of tension for sensation. You want to know? You want to know reality? Remove tension. Deeply relax.

That's all you need to do. All the treasures will come to you. The knowledge. Knowledge is not in the books. Knowledge is not in the teachers. Knowledge is by, when I do this, when I pay attention, I decrease tension in my system.

If somebody whispers, you immediately decrease, decrease tension in the system to tune in. It's a trick that many charlatans use. Not only charlatans, also. Good charlatans, bad charlatans. So, this is very nice. We build something very nice here

from all the different sides. We have a really strong case to modulating tension and sensing. We need to devote a lot of resources to it. We need to be respectful of it. it and we need to apply tools for it every day it's not just going to the gym it's not just about you know doing your yoga routine or whatever we need to pay attention to this because paying attention is developing certain things are

worth devoting our lives to and this means are worth our attention this is one of them it will heal you don't wait that you get sick, so sick that you have to do it, it might be too late. Tension and the relationship to sensation, this whole understanding can save your life. You know those

scenarios, drowning or freezing to death, being stuck somewhere in the wilderness and then there is all these crazy stories. It just happened now. They found this Sherpa in Everest. Did you see this? this man

one of the Sherpas that were separated from the guy he just sat down they were coming down the conditions didn't allow the climb up and the guy he was

helping the mountaineer you know they don't carry anything the Sherpas are taking a fridge on their back and he just sat down to smoke they smoke it's crazy like these people are Superman

and he told them keep going keep going down. They were already coming down. It was kind of bad conditions and blizzard. I'll catch up with it. And he's very experienced old guy. He came down and he never came. The Sherpa started searches for him. Everest. Snow. One day, two days, three days, four days, five days. Just a body. We're going to find just a body. We're going to find just a body. found him. He came down. How? What is that? What is it lack? What is it genetic? Or this girl in Siberia once that drowned was stuck under the ice, under the ice for 40 minutes? And somebody drowns in

their bathtub. What is that? My partner, Odelia, she went through a car accident. she broke her back, she lost the kidney. When her dad saw the car in the junkyard, he cried because there was nothing left besides the compartment around the front seat. And Odelia, she's amazing mover. People don't believe that she broke, you know, the back, that she had this severe concussion. How?

What is it? What kind of a softness is that? Not rigidity. Nothing can help you when your car is flipped and you're shaken inside this compartment. It's like, you know, so I think, and what happens one day when you get a phone call, a broken heart can end your life.

Relaxation, release, deep release and sensation can save your life and can give you your life. It's something that we need to cultivate from children all the way to even if you're 80 years old. Good. Start. It will give you benefits. Reconnect to it. Find a way. There are many ways.

And people can find a way into practices of releasing tension, letting go of tension, from somatics to guided meditations to apps these days to all kinds of things. if you genuinely pursue it, well, it will give you a lot. Whatever you do. I feel like we generally value and prioritize strengthening one vertical, whether it be strength, mobility, flexibility. It sounds like you're inviting the more important thing is the adaptability, the ability to change, to evolve, to be with the circumstance and the stress response. Is that how you think and you approach?

and of course the concepts and the words and the models are always going to fail us but it sounds like you're to improve an athlete or to work with an Alzheimer's patient or a musician or a physicist you're bringing to them something that is making the system stronger

as a whole which is where they're weakest right? Yeah, I can also isolate something we never isolate. It's impossible. It's always affecting the whole system but you can try to target it more here and there and that's okay

but the most important thing is driving the car. We became the movement people, and not only the movement, the psychologist, everyone. Car mechanics. Car mechanics. You're not driving even the car. This is not the game. You're just fixing these pieces you work on the engine, but you never, you don't know how to drive. This is something else.

So that's why the hybrid, the task, the complex scenario is the most important. Now the car mechanic has its place. People who call themselves movement people, people who pursue people who were inspired also by me and by others. Oftentimes I see it. This has nothing to do with movement. They don't even move. And here's another shocker I saw inside myself. I said before, I didn't, I don't even feel.

feel movement. That was my realization with myself. Here's another shocker. I don't like movement. That's what I saw in myself. I don't even like movement.

If you don't feel it, if you need to play some clips, you're putting some camera on, then you're capturing something for Instagram and you're doing your movements or you do your yoga routine, you do this and you're in some class and you're following

and you're not really paying attention. You need all that scenario. Turn off the music. Turn off everything. And now you can do it. You're not interested. Who are you when no one's looking? Yeah.

And now what's the next thing? You don't even know that you don't like it because you never felt it. What you felt, you called that movement. It's something else. It's a distraction. It's a major. mix, dirty mix.

And again, it's heavy. I apologize. But there is a place I also carry the heaviness and I wish to offer people the positivity behind it. We can gain a lot by interacting with this thought and with this way. Yeah. You mentioned in regards to the more silent. or the lessening of noise increases your perceptive capacity, right?

You become more keenly aware of noticing the subtle movements within self, within other. And we mentioned a bit earlier about the posturing, right, the emotional ties with the physiological state that somebody who walks around needing to dominate and assert themselves as a signal into the insecurity they feel, right? In the many different ways that balance can be revealed. as you've increased the sensitivity within your own system, have you been able to keenly kind of pick up where those holding patterns are

and somebody, the relationship they carry within themselves because of how they're holding tension in their body? Yeah, of course. It's not just the tension in the body or the movement capacity, but like you said, we built these engines and these postures and these ways as a representation of certain things that we feel,

needs, likes, dislikes, fears. One person goes to the gym and builds this huge body because they're insecure. Another person doesn't build this body, goes to martial art. It's the same. So you build a skill set to kill someone because you're insecure.

My dad never went to martial art, unlike me, because he was powerful. I never felt the need. I saw it in myself. I need the martial arts. I found my way in there. The real powerful ones, they're not in the martial art, in this sense. In the martial arts, you find many bullies and many people like me, cowards, insecure. So end up needing to construct something else.

I also built my body. Yeah. I needed everything. Yeah. What about do you feel like even though it might be a more rare case, the individuals that are genuinely pulled for some sort of mastery in a form of movement for the love of it and not through the fear of inadequacy? What is the love of it?

That's the thing. Yeah. the fisherman question. Fisherman likes fish? Why does he kill it? What is the love of it? Is it possible? Yeah, it's possible to love it,

but we're not capable of it in most cases. It's not what we think it is. Well, your partner, your romantic partner, you love them? Love is sometimes to say you should go somewhere else. We're not in that place. most people

those who haven't practiced it's possible to get there it's possible to love to move but it's not this initial inclination I you know I love you and now we're speaking

through lawyers because you know you said something you know I have my coffee I like you I don't have my coffee I don't like you this is love we like to speak big words the practice notifies you of what you really have at least it was for me

and I didn't have much a lot of stories a lot of lies to myself a lot of ideas you know what I discovered my strength is my weakness and my weakness is my strength there's a lot of humility in that as well

huh maybe maybe humility in the sense of this is what it is. This is what it is and we have our style of humility. There are many styles

and one of the styles is the boca prafora, as they say in Portuguese, from the mouth out, humility from here out. I say it. But inside, I think something else. But humility for me is to know your limits. When I say,

I'm a coward, I'm not. beating myself, oh, I'm a coward, oh, I'm a coward. There, I was, I did that in the past as well. This is the truth. This is what I've glimpsed.

I'm not saying it to sound humble, but it is just watching my limits, my possibilities, and also putting it into the perspective of comparison. Of course, I have to, so I communicate something. But more important is to make the point for the benefit of others

and for the benefit of myself, one time I was in a way in with a fighter in one of the first fights. McGregor? No. No, no. One of the first fights they had.

And he was standing there and it was trembling. And they stand in front of each other and his fist is trembling. And the other guy goes, Look, look, look, he's trembling. He's afraid. And he told him, I am afraid.

And tomorrow I'm going to end you. And he did. That was power. So in that sense, he was like, everybody saw it. I'm trembling. I am afraid. That is important because it gives us strength. It gives us hope.

It gives us clarity and real, something real. I'm not going to patch up my wrinkles. I'm not going to paint my, you know, my shirt is a bit wrinkled, you know. Like sometimes in this podcast they do this ironing thing and I refuse, you know. I'm not, and the reason I'm not neglecting myself. It's not the point. You told me one of my hair is sticking out. I offered, yeah, like there's a cowlick.

Like, do you want me to fix it? You're like, no, I'm good. Yeah, there is a caulic. it is there I can fix it as a there is a colleague I could also

equally arrange it and I'm not I'm not showing something superior I'm just saying in that moment was important also

for me to stay with it maybe I look a bit funny maybe something you know is not maybe I have a bugger

a bit sticking out or something you know there is there is beauty in the imperfection and there is importance in it and we have to feed it back into our lives and like I said

the nice thing yesterday from Huberman that the pendulum swings back because of this too perfected thing yeah there is a comedian and he said something about all these treatments that women are doing these days and he said you can look

old or weird you have two choices so it's like and you know what both are equal okay you do take care of your wrinkles it's not superior

but it's the same in the end but it's more about the observation and then I can ask myself do you have children yes no doesn't matter you don't need to to make children now

to be okay to be whole and you don't need to remove them to start to practice to be or something but the realization of it the deep questions get you to ask yourself do I want to have children in a much more deeper way and a much more honest way

or do I want to fix my hair or do I want to engage with this or with that by the way it's related also to my cowardice but also to my intelligence, in the sense that I know that fixing my wrinkles is dangerous. I am smart enough to realize it. From here to there, I wake up 20 years forward.

I'm in a totally different place by trying to hunt down these things or longevity. To pursue longevity. I'm not a longevity guy. I'm a big nauseated by it to be. or I once said in a lecture bringing your children into this world is probably the most selfish thing a person can do my mother attended that lecture

she smiled in the end of the lecture she came to me she said you're right but raising them is the least I say perfect perfect correct across Canada in a Volvo destination Vancouver turn left to leave

travel west through approaching continue toward you've arrived adventure in comfort with Volvo whether you prefer gas plug-in hybrid or fully electric there's a Volvo for everyone

learn more at VolvoCars.ca. I love what you mentioned earlier about seeking out the things you feel weak in. I resonate a lot with that because piano is one example of something where I'm just continually at the bottom of the mountain of, there's always something new once I feel like I have a level of understanding or mastery. One thing, there's immediately 10 other things that will bring me to my frontier of, you know, of capability.

And any other words you have there on like that relationship between strength, and weakness and to seek out that which actually makes us stronger by finding what makes us weaker. Yeah, just have a contemplation I offer for you, for people watching this, listening to this. Let's say you pursue your strength. Where will you end up? Just find what you're good at and do that, that piece of advice. Now contemplate a reality in which you pursue what you're not good at. Isn't this clear? Is there a possibility that pursuing your strength will end up well?

Yes, because you will find weaknesses in that as well. It's layers, but you have failed to align with the approach across all strata's. So there is more for us in the weakness but it shouldn't become a sadomasochistic thing because that is also mechanical and automatic and takes out all the beauty of it so you interact with some things that you're strong at and some things that you're weak and it's about

achieving a certain balance of these things that end remaining functional without collapsing That's the other thing. Some people, they pursue their strength or they pursue the weakness in a more critical example, but they collapse. They continue to pursue the weakness, but the way that they do it is actually dead,

and they don't get this. We don't have the strength that we think we have. We jail break it. We don't have the will that we believe we have. What we're using this willpower is not will. It's just discipline. It's nothing. Yeah, we've built, you know, countries with it.

But it's a mosquito's fart compared to a tornado that is the will. And the will, the real will, it works through a mosquito's. fart. That's the opposing things. What we believe is strong is actually weak and what is seemingly weak, so weak that we don't even recognize it's there when Will comes to visit us. It's not what we feel. What we feel is motivation. What we feel is discipline. So either I just force myself to do what I don't want to do or I make myself want to do it. with motivation. Both of them are not will.

Will is there when it remains so that you don't want to do it. We don't even, we didn't even hear about this. It's not even the words they don't, they have to, you have to change. This is the sphere of the practitioner. Only there is no one else who can touch this. A person of practice will find, will find themselves, will find authenticity.

Different ways to look at it, but it's the same. Will is sequentiality. The ability to do what you want to do, even when you don't want to do it. Not by making yourself want to do it. Be careful.

You take it away from yourself. Every time you've changed to this. So, people use me as much, motivation. Sometimes, you know, they tell me, you've motivated me. It goes in one year, it comes out on the other. I don't feel nothing towards it. The reason is I know it's temporary, it's weak. It lifts and it crashes. And the more lift you get, the more you will crash also in relation to this. And anyways, it works for a corrupted agency. So, but this, this message, is what will make you able to face impossible things, like to be on that mountain or to have a situation from life. You brought a child to this world, you look at the baby, and you feel nothing towards your child.

Happens. What do you do now? You use discipline? You raise a child. out of that. Many of us grew up like that. Our parents didn't love us. But they were, they didn't abandon us, but they did it with the wrong hands and these are the hands that we were raised with and we carry these scars, we carry this problem. So if I am not a practitioner, I should be careful because these situations can arise.

I need to practice. It tells me I need to practice. I want to be able to connect to something else. I want to be able to find love through will, real will, softness and real love without motivating myself towards it or without, you know. And this is just one example. Again, like it can be a physical thing,

it can be something else. That person survived up there, not because of rigidity is not the Goggins effect that's not it and one moment is enough to break you you can be a lifetime of discipline it take it from a person of hyperdiscipline my favorite day we used to be friday nights to practice because i knew nobody's practicing now everybody goes to parties, everybody goes, I practiced since I was maybe 13, 14, 15, 8 hours a day. Even in school, not to talk about other scenarios. Until today, I'm still practicing officially, I'm talking about official practice,

10 hours a day, 12 hours a day, sometimes more. So I discovered none of it matters if I just do it from that tool. I developed something, but it's not what I thought I had. And every time I ran into the difficulty again, when I didn't want to do it, I had to pull that tool and it didn't work.

Yeah. I told yesterday in the Huberman podcast also a story about this for my life and there are many examples where I went back to do something again because I didn't do it correctly I forced myself into doing it and it was worthless

so I had to go back and soften myself into doing it not use motivation not put some music on and just do it until today in simple scenarios like I need to take the garbage down I don't want to do it I'm tired or something

I remember oh here is a practice here is a little opportunity and in that moment I'm very careful first rule no drama is allowed not on the inside

definitely not on the outside because the moment I'm like let me let me practice there is also a drama there is also a tap on the back that I give myself, I did it and will again goes away from me will cannot be developed

can only be revealed what you develop is just discipline that's the willpower that's rigid it's people win world championships people you know fight wars with that but there is

the quality of a different strata different height what does your practice look like now as it's evolved you said sometimes 10 15 hours a day 8 to 10 hours a day formal practice I mean if you're spending

three four hours with me here today that doesn't leave you that's like every other waking hour practicing in some way what does that look like yeah when in days like this I have to use the informal side but I woke up this day today in 4.30 in the morning.

Also for the formal side. Not always do I... These days it's also very important for me not to worry about it when I can't and just to immediately practice in the way that I can't like even right now. Even in this scenario. It's more about presence,

responsibility, et cetera. And the formal side, if you see it, you wouldn't understand it. Some things you will recognize. Like I spent usually many hours a day still sitting in a seated practice, various postural practices, open form practice,

which means improvisational. Problem solving. I still engage with that. I still work with the physical. to keep the body of service to the practice as well. So there are elements of that. And more and more and more. A lot of it from the outside cannot,

not a lot can be glimpsed. It's very either tiny or very static. Sometimes it's moving, but without much technical beauty that can be perceived from the outside. I've worked my way through this. Yeah, it's... And some of it is very beautiful and approachable

and can be glimpsed. But also not so important what it looks. It's more important to understand from the inside. Once the understanding on the inside, it becomes interesting. It becomes... Then there are questions, et cetera. I work with students.

I'm very proud to have students of many students over a decade, 15 years. Our community, the real inner core is many, many years and people are aging like me, together with me, building families, et cetera. And this evolution of the practice, people can come from the very basic things with basic corrupted motives.

They want to learn how to do a handstand. Good, come for us. We will help you. in a very, very powerful way to get what you want to get. But slowly at the same time, by doing this, you start to be pulled into deeper things.

You want to do strength training, great. You want to work on injuries. We provide these services online in events, but then slowly, slowly, slowly, the same has happened to me. You start to get to go deeper into the real essence. I don't care about your handstands. I don't care about your imbassals.

I care about you. And it starts to become so much more about us. Once we realize it, this can also be serviced from the outside, facilitated. Spending so many hours in a seated practice and practicing in those different forms, is there a predominant question you're sitting with that is directing your life right now? Is there a question you're exploring personally the most? The questions they are mutating themselves into something else or else they're not really of service,

the questions can be a good beginning, unravelling of something. Like the old Rajneesh practice, you know, also Ramana, who am I? or who's in, right? A question can be very powerful. But by the time you've asked it a million times, you realize it's not

what it was, right? So I'm not necessarily currently, like, working with such a thing but I have in the past. There is the practice of just sitting. It's advanced.

I believe. Some people, are offering it very early, like in Zen circles, you know, they sometimes it's the primary to, I believe it's nowadays, less and less, good starting point. Anything can be a starting point in a way. But I do, did build up myself to that place and that at times. I sometimes I need some other things, I need certain tools. It's always a drawing, a painting. It's always something like every day is a piece of art.

We are all artists and our lives is our art, as Steiner said. In this sense, we have to design the practice in this way. Every seat is not just I'm here. Here I am, boom, here's the pillow, boom, I sit. But there is an opening. There is a warm up. I have a friend Martin Kilvadi, a good friend. He's a dancer and he once told me something that immediately resonated with.

He said, I just love the warm up and the warm down. A lot more than the thing itself. And it's so resonated with me. Why? Why is that so much often present? Because the warm up, warm up it has a process to it

it's not about the up or the down it can also be the down but the thing itself sometimes lacks the process but if we take this quality so I believe the seat sometimes people

I sit every morning at 5 a.m for 20 years I didn't miss a day sounds like you don't have nothing It's not the high practitioners. It is a step along the way. It's important to, I fail to mention it. Discipline is super important.

Motivation is a good tool. But they're scaffolding. You build it in order to build the real building and you've got to get rid of it. But if you don't have discipline, if you didn't cultivate discipline, forget about it. My path is the path of ultimate effort.

There are many paths. My path is so much effort that you're not even allowed to make an effort. So it's the ultimate effort. You can look at it this way or the other way to look at it is it's not the path of effort. But I prefer to look at it this way

because it is more wink, winking at us. It is more... Yeah. The hard thing to do is to make incredible efforts without even being able to contract against it.

You have to do it. You have to go to the dentist and you say, no anesthesia. And you soften and you're saying, ah, this is drilling in. This is why it's so much of the effort in many ways, but you don't experience the pain in the same way that we think we do. We are so afraid to release ourselves,

in the moment that the suffering comes, that this is actually more painful than the pain itself. Sam Harry says, I can't bear it. You're already buried it. I can't bear it. You know, this thought, the fear of fear, is much worse than the fear itself. Just the fear itself is not that bad.

It's a really important perspective. I know at different points in my life, my practice, which was very disciplined and almost militant, can quickly become this thing that you feel like you should be doing, and it sucks the spontaneity, alibness, improvisation, and the real presence from the practice.

You know, it becomes dead, in a sense, so mechanical. And I appreciated that you said it is an important part of the path. And then eventually, like, the level of mastery, which I don't necessarily love that word, but the Taoists have a saying, a maxim, that the master does nothing yet leaves nothing undone. And to me, it's really resonant of that place of doing without personal, this identity of personal doership, doing without the identity of being the doer.

Choiceless awareness. It's a very good combination of words. It's a very important flavor to connect to even if it's weird. It's like maybe it's a dish right now, what you said and what we came to here. You really made it a point from the moment I stepped in to align with what will happen. Let's see where this conversation will take us. I appreciate it. or taking pauses to ask a question, to contemplate, or to look at notes, or I appreciate it.

There is an honesty. There is now, don't need to play any games and you placed yourself in this way. So maybe we got now to a point where the flavor is a bit weird. It's like some weird dish, right, that you're in some country. It's like, like, you know, once I was in the Philippines and they have this thing, Balut. It's this egg, normal egg. But inside of it, there is the chicken already.

So you open it, you eat it. You're crunching through bones, the beak, feather, you know, like feathers sometimes. And so then, like, you know, like, oh, you know, this, but then you actually do it. Wait, try to sense what is this. Or even the concept of that's evil. That, you know, like even that, it's plays tricks with us.

It's the narrative that we put on it. Wait, sense the taste of this weird place we got to. Choiceless awareness doesn't mean that you are removed from the equation. The opposite is it's hard to get this. The fake, the personality, what we cultivated, what we stole from the world we copied is not really ours. That's what got to go to a certain extent, controlled, placed correctly. But the deep essence, the purity comes out.

That's why it's choiceless because, you that fake you in that sense don't get to choose but the deep you is now engaged this deep you that you're engaging like not who who am i but what am i i i feel like when you go on that journey of exploring and inquiring experientially you first realize all these things that you are not you know i'm not this i'm not that and i'm curious how do you answer the question what am i when you've explored that experientially what have you found for you you and your fundamental essence in nature. It's not a communicative thing, right?

You can say some words about it. I can extrapolate something from it. I'm very careful with this because I'm already doing more than I should in most cases. That's what I feel in the end. because leaving these undone pieces will get people more will get more going

the questions not the answers if I leave something undone like the old trick the old hermetic trick you only count to nine never count to ten what's the trick about it

you do reps that's how you do push-ups you only count to nine why because people got accustomed to count to ten so what will happen when you leave it at nine

the count continues and that's what you want the pondering continues it's undone it's not perfect so in this sense I maybe it's the mystery is important

it is important mystery the sense of mystery the aesthetic intensity that we call mystic mystery, awe is something missing in most of our lives. I'm in awe of this thing and with myself and I don't necessarily have these answers. And even the answers that I do have sounds like, I can't. bring them about into some kind of a thing. But like you said, there is a lot of discoveries through the path of negation what I'm not

because I cannot know what I am, but I can know what I'm not. People should reflect on that. The learning through negation is a very important tool. For example, when I work with people with boxing, for example, I don't teach them boxing. I teach them what I view what it's not. And it's more powerful than teaching.

I don't teach any techniques of boxing. I'm not a boxing teacher, but I like to work with this quality like other things. So it's a very powerful way to realize, to inquire. And the only answer that comes is no. Never, yes. Is this it? No.

Is this it? No. Is this it? But as it's mentioned in the old scriptures, it's not it and it's not not it. That's the other side. Not confuse the fact that it's not, that the answer is not. And now you think you've got something.

It's not that as well. So it's the ultimate. negating thing because it negates something fake, something incorrect. Negate the negation as well. Yes, what is negating in this way? Like our morality where we ended up, it doesn't work. Our democracy, that's it. It's at the end of it.

It doesn't work. It had good intentions, but it was already distorted to begin with. It's already containing. We don't need more. We need conscious. Now we have morality, okay, you know, don't do this, don't do that. You don't kill me because you will go to prison. We don't want that.

We want a society of individuals who don't kill or kill as well. through the openness of the question every time no merit certificates holding us together that if we want to separate we need to go through a process with lawyers that will take years

every day turn your head in bed in the morning to the other side choose again I stay have a backpack ready have your suitcase ready can go any moment.

Have it ready in the room. Have your stuff. That's the place you want to be. That's the partnership you want to have. I don't own you. You don't owe me anything. And the same thing I cultivate towards the practice. I practice many hours and this and that.

And any moment it can go. And it's okay. I wake up and I... Sometimes I don't want to practice and I don't practice. I've learned... To appreciate that, just to end up realizing and practicing even more. So great. The paradox is often present when good things are, the real good things, truth.

Truth is the paradox, the paradoxical. If it's not coming in this flavor, it's probably not. That's why the conclusions, the answers, they're not. Staples' preferred business membership built for busy business owners, because you've got bigger things to think about. With Staples Preferred, get free delivery. No minimums. Staples Preferred unlocks up to 3% back.

Plus 10% savings on print and exclusive wireless offers. One less thing on your plate. Actually, a lot less. Visit staples.ca slash preferred. That was easy. Yeah, it's part of the conundrum with, you know, doing this podcast, having some. so many conversations speaking about something which in essence is ineffable.

And we should continue to do that and to be of service. And it's also like taking the car apart, making models. People ask me, shall I write notes? Yes. I like it. No, it's also okay. But you don't have to read. even again.

Make models. Crumble them, put in the garbage, make more models the next day. It's okay. Part of the practicum. Have conversations,

have different ways, outlooks, perspectives, but also never think you grab the hold of something. If I come from a place that shines out something like,

I know, here is this again. I don't. This is the place I stand at. And I cherish it. I want to keep it this way. You seem like you've read and studied many different individuals

and different fields, the folks that you've quoted in this conversation. Has that just been a natural proclivity for your understanding? Have you just been, have you read a lot? Or have you studied all these folks from? I've read a little bit. I, it has been good verification to read, never a good manual. But it is an important thing and a verification and I am a reader in that sense. It was something that was present in my culture, in my family, and I could play that game quite easily.

and so I've gained a certain capacity with it and I spend many years reading in a variety of fields and in my house there was a cultivated curiosity a lot and like I said and this is the most important and you don't need to teach children anything besides curiosity once curiosity is there is to teach them the rest there is a beautiful saying

I hope I don't butcher it too bad of a way but you know if you worry that well there are a few sayings actually there are two that comes to mind

but one of them is a bad teacher teach what they don't know but they don't understand they aim to teach it what they don't understand is more correct maybe they know it

but they don't understand A better teacher teaches what they understand and even better teacher teaches what they can do and the best teaches what is unknown yet and in that cultivation you cultivate, you find curiosity, you find playfulness those are major, major, major tools that we have to really and cultivate every day.

I still do with myself. I'm in a play mode. I'm in a playful mode. I'm in a curious mode. I'm going around the world in different places to different traditions, in different practices. I'm investing a lot in learning and bringing teachers to work with me, to study various pieces.

And it is a very important trait. And that led me to read. And in the beginning, I thought I was learning in that sense of like I tried to apply, but I discovered it doesn't work. And then later, because that corrupts you a lot of reading. That's a corruptive thing, just like the body can corrupt you. You can become overly identified with it. And then later I realized the real benefit of it is some kind of a supportive thing, some kind of a a story of a journey that somebody took,

that you also took, that is supportive, verifying, assisting in that sense. It cannot give you nothing. If you were not there, it's not for you, actually. It's not what, you understand what I'm saying? And that's a major confusion that people have to go in to read the Gita, the Taoist scriptures, the Jewish ones or the Sufi ones.

And they think, okay, oh wow, cool. Oh, they quote this, they quote that. I've been there with myself and sometimes I still fall trapped to this. And the practice is what gave me the books. Not the books gave me the practice. you read a lot as well I have I have read a lot

it comes in waves sometimes I just stop reading entirely good and sometimes I find thinkers like David Deutsch or Feynman or someone who like really is

a novel insight into something that is yeah provoke something I have a student she's a she was a physicist, a theoretical physicist, but she stopped. Now she's working with practice, with movement. And she has a very warm place for Feynman.

I didn't have, I didn't really dive deep into, but I need to at a certain point because I heard, I appreciate her and what she thinks. There are letters that he wrote some books. that has those letters I heard very powerful yeah the the pleasure of finding things out I also think you might resonate with sounds very alignment with the way that you've been describing the curiosity and the journey there we had a we have a one or two questions from our online community that sent in something so sure

Matt from Salt Lake City asks for someone who does inner work therapy meditation, developmental practice, but largely ignores the body. What are they missing? What does the body know that the mind can never access through thinking alone? There is no access to the mind in this way that we often think and we get corrupted. It's the intellect. There is a discursive quality. We might think we're not working with it. We might think. we are being present and being the body helps and also the heart these paths they're complementary you can get there from any way there many doors the universe god whatever it is left a door in every atom, every cell is a door, every individual, all the information is inside.

That's why it cannot be covered, erased or broken. It always comes out. But when people speak of the mind, what they don't realize, and it's too late by the time that realization, if it ever comes, realized they didn't work with the mind. And the word mind is already problematic because that's already this muddy terrain. But what I'm offering is not like the body way. I'm just offering the practice way.

And part of it is to realize this has a lot there for you. The physicality, the movement as well, the stillness of the physical movement, which is often present for these ways and also the heart. I learned the importance. For me, it was a big thing with the heart

because the body, I'm not inclined to the body. I'm not gifted with the body. My gift is with the intellect. That is the original inclination. I went to the weakness, not to the strength. So I strengthened my weakness and I devoted my life to the movement practice,

the physical movement for many, many, many decades. So I gained those two. What was neglected was the heart. So I didn't care about people, nor did I care about myself. I cared about their success and they were successful. I've transformed the world around me, everyone that I touched. And they all hate me. I didn't care about them.

I cared about their success. I could twist it into some kind of a greater good. That's not what I'm suggesting. I learned not that it's important to be loved. No, that's not important. That's a corrupted motive as well. But I've learned the importance of the balance of having the heart in it.

So it doesn't mean to care for people, but it means to be in an emotional strata as well when you are at practice and devoting things to it. That's what I'm suggesting. The body will give you flavors that it's very difficult to get otherwise and the heart will give you the path of the heart. There are all these flavors already existing in all these figures. Jesus Christ is the way of the heart.

And then Buddha is a very different flavor. Mahavira, very different flavor. And it keeps going like this. Abraham, that figure, very different figure. Padma Sambaba, very different flavor. And on, and on, Muhammad. So that's maybe a useful bit. What was the catalyst for the heart for you?

Was there a predominant? Failure. Yeah. Not that there is a success, but just like this doesn't go anywhere. I'm stuck. Here is the body. I've achieved freedom. A certain critical mess.

There is no ultimate freedom. But I could do a lot. I could, you know, dance, fight, perform acrobatics, manipulate objects, do extreme coordination of things, move beautifully, efficiently, solve problems. I could always improve this area, that area, but I could do a lot. intellectually the same thing, I could play many games with my mind. I'm really gifted actually in music.

This is maybe the natural inclination. I never took it. But when I was a child, I was already in school, we used to play instruments. I used to sing in the choir. My sister is working with it. My young sister, Gilly, she's a musician. And also my big sister were all like sang. So the inclination was this was the missing piece which I totally pushed away and my

family is the family of the heart. I was the exception. I became the hard. Certain experiences in childhood certain inclinations made it for me, me against them. This is the way that I saw reality and this made me a very potent. practitioner and aligned me with the intellect. I'm smarter than you and I'm more powerful than you physically. This was the inclination, so that's where I got.

The heart was left way behind. And then at a certain point, it's like, I'm not actually strong. I thought I was, I'm not actually smart. This is just, what is this? This is thinking? It's like this realization. I remember this moment that it's not. don't upon me.

This association, this is thinking chicken egg. That's all that there is there? I refuse to accept that. I said it to Huberman yesterday. He said, as a neurologist, let me guarantee you, it's not. But he couldn't actually provide an answer what it is, which is very important and potent. even as a neurologist to say, I don't know.

But I can tell you it's not just that negation again. So I realized I cannot think. I'm not smart. I'm not intelligent as well. So slowly, slowly the heart came there for me. And still something I work with and I need to work more and more with. Maybe part of that softening, maybe that you can see from the outside. Yeah, when you walked in my home, I was like, who's this ball of light?

Oh, wow. That's the first. Yeah, no, you were, I mean, just like you have a very generous, kind spirit. Thank you very much. And, I mean, I've seen your stuff online for a long time, and you probably are more recognized for being kind of a fierce, disruptive, which, of course, is still in there. but it's beautiful to see the evolutions of us, you know,

and how they integrate and it's like a spiral staircase, you know? We revisit these core patterns with a little bit more level of awareness, more heart, and that's amazing. And it's inspiring to see people change and evolve. And one more question from Benjamin from Dallas, Texas. What sort of small, daily, and actionable exercises can we implement in our lives to see relief from our body's normal wear and tear? Take it where you may.

Let's service it. I'll offer something. I don't know if people will pick it up, but here it is. Stop foam rolling. Start floor rolling. And use as hard floor. as you can while remaining as soft as you can. So if you can't remain soft,

start with a mat or a rug. Take 10 minutes. If you can do it technically by looking online on some technical material, how to do a roll or this or that, can pursue it this way or not technical. Just start by rolling side to side in different ways. into sitting back into like from chest but spend five to ten up to 20 minutes doing it without stop you can put music on to help you to immerse yourself in it and see what happens to your

body recently well it's now been a while but we are also taking people into certain expeditions They're not just expeditions for it is the normal way, but they're more pronouncing what happens during an adventure. There is a practice there. And they really latch on to this. And we went to this very traditional culture, 3,000-year-old culture, nothing there, very hard to get in, to get out.

No electricity, nothing. No chair for like, 11 days sleeping on mats that are not much more than a yoga mat yeah what happened was

three four days in all the aches lower backs hips knees improved some really really improved others less but still improved and new aches

came aches of the flesh the grinding of the ass You know, that the flesh was hurting because of the rigidity of the structures, but the joints and the movement felt lubricated. And then after a few more days, it also came together. This would be the experience of people. So if you have that wearing there, those joint aching joints,

start to spend some time. Take really a time. It will help you put a timer on and don't stop. You don't need to do it fast or you don't need to sweat. But just keep going and explore. And if you don't feel connected to that, try to use a technical layer. Use one of those tutorials. They're countless online and pursue it for the time frame.

And then slowly build it up and do it without escalating your situation as well. So observe the next days if you inflamed yourself, if you overdid it. All my advice is dangerous in the sense that it's potent. It works. but dosages apply. Amazing. So lay on a hard surface, five, ten, twenty minutes,

roll around an experiment. Roll around. Some of it can be crawling, but not so much using the hands quadrupedal. Why? Because I want to get deep into the architecture,

into the inner frame. I need the rib cage to change. this is not happening through flexibility this is not happening through stretching this is not you need to stop foam rolling start slow rolling I'm sure somebody will make

a business from it a slogan from it and we'll sell some system around it good luck you know wish you best of luck is that is there is there

I think that is that feels really helpful it is like a beautiful simple practice and at the end of a three-hour conversation feels immediately actionable for people as well because your advice is potent like you've been able to see patterns with reoccurring

low back shoulder problems whatever could I give you a couple other areas of the body and see like what have been some useful tools and you could share a couple useful tools maybe amazing so shoulder pain is pretty common I feel like especially. So for that, I have a lot of tools I already put out for free

and people should go search for it. And one of them, it's been engaged with tens of thousands of people and became quite a phenomenon all the way up to Joe Rogan and presidents of countries and that I got thank you letters and hanging. And you can search Ido Portal hanging challenge. And that's very potent for shoulders. and it's basically bringing back the suspension,

this point of opening the whole body and allowing gravity to start to align it, relaxed hangs. If you can, some people can't. They have to use the active hangs, what we call. But I'm not going to go into all the details because people can find it online, including videos, old blog,

Edo Portal, Hanging Challenge, 30 days, it will help your shoulders. Amazing. What about low back stuff? Low back can be also engaged with hanging and also from another tool, which is the squat challenge. Again, Ido Portal's squat challenge, and you can find. Both of them will really work from both ends, upstream and downstream,

and can affect the lower back. And there is another thing which touches it, and those are three challenges that are free. and you, Ido portal, it's always the easiest thing to find, spinal waves. Where you go up against the wall.

Yes. Yes. And those three things can do a lot of good. I cannot promise anything, but they can do a lot of good for lower backs. If I need to add the fourth one,

if this didn't work, you do one month of the hanging challenge, you don't do it together with the squat challenge if you don't have the time. They take a lot of time each day. Not a lot but substantial amount of time. You can do the next ones the squat challenge and maintain the hanging instead of fully doing it.

And then along with these two, you can already from the beginning start to practice the spinal waves which creates a very micro movement in the whole system and especially all around the spine and these micro-movements brings with it life circulation, information synovial fluid, blood etc.

is moving and is and the most important thing which is failed to be realized by the scientists many times and by various people it's not about so much the structure. It's about the model. And what happens

when you stop paying attention to things, they deteriorate. You can't, there is no status quo. There is only improvement or degradation. So it means the spinal wave is more about moving information. I'm not trying to heal the tissues.

I'm moving information throughout the whole spine. and it's a rather safe thing to do because the movement is so small and it's unloaded. Great combination with the other two things. Those are three challenges that people can use for the whole body.

That's why I issued them in that order as well. One of them is also opening the whole shape. One of them is compressing. The squat is the full compression. And one of them is in between. And they all service the totality of the body, the upper body, the torso, and then the lower.

body. Yeah. And the other thing that can be added later is exhalation. Improving exhalation. Which I'm not going to go into this. Let's leave it as a mysterious thing. You don't know how to exhale. Learning to exhale will do a lot for lower back problems.

But that has to be pursued properly. It's part of what we teach as well. and the many, many, many things that we do. And this is a very potent tool. And people can also explore by themselves in various ways and to realize the depth of your exhalation, the quality of your exhalation, I thought I knew how to exhale.

I more knew how to inhale than to exhale, but also the inhalation was not great. It cannot be without full exhalation. And the exhalation, hence, is a very potent thing as the old, the ancient yogis realized as well. There is a lot of work with the exhalation in yoga. And the inhalation is oftentimes left as a self-arizing entity in many ways. Yeah, I know that I resonate with that. We can leave it a bit more mysterious, but even just the inquiry to explore, how can I,

feel my exhalation deeper. Feel it, connect. You can't refine what you can't define. We have to feel the exhalation and we have to improve it and by feeling it, by sensing it, we can improve it. And then the other thing is

I can't exhale. How I eat, my emotional state, my relationships. They create a scenario in which I can't exhale, never. And you get into this place of realizing, oh, wow, wow, I've moved so far away from the animal

that I can't even exhale. Now, oftentimes people realize that they cannot inhale, and they report it, I can't inhale fully. So that's why I'm offering, no, no, no, no. Go to the other side. What you think you have, you will never have. because you thought you possessed it, remember. And is there any kind of one of my last questions is just, again, we think of movement and exercise from that term as in the gym,

whether it's bench press and bicep curls or up dog and down dog, you know, we get stuck in our, in our modalities. And it feels like the way that you explain things you're addressing. the system and almost like the animal that is this human body. I can't help but think of us being one of the only, you know, animals, beings in the animal kingdom that have this ability to disconnect from our body and be so split mind-to-body. And I'm just curious, what, if any, analogies do you draw from examining the animal kingdom and the way that they use their body and how we're stuck with it? I'm not sure you're right about that.

Yeah, well, it's more of a question. Do you... I don't know. It's a question to ask. I don't know. I don't know if the animal cannot do that. I think our disconnect is often something else. It's not a rising to some other plain place.

Like, for example, have you ever had... dog, a dog, they dream. What happens in the dream? Where do you go? You're disconnecting somewhere, right? And then you kind of come back into that. Or there is at least an experience of it for people from outside. I also practice dream yoga, sleep yoga. So there is very weird insight there, in the transitions, in the twilights, and in the ability to cross the boundary with an aware. fairness.

Back to your question, the animals, well, there is this Hollywood or, you know, the old kung fu movies, childish inspiration from the animals. The animal walks, people mention me a lot with that, you know, the animal walks. Yeah, I love these things. not so much trying to capture the movement of the animal a better

and more interesting thing is to capture the spirit of the animal which is also not the end and there is deeper in that all the animals are some kind of semantic primitives

or some kind of archetypical things which are so archetypical things typical, primal, that they are part of this evolutionary thing. So they are actually part of the process. We have a fish in us. We have a mammal.

We are mammals, essentially. We have a reptilian. And there is this other thing which we don't know what it is. Is it the ape? The naked ape, we call ourselves as well. Or is it something else altogether? And maybe it's not so different than what we think it is. Maybe as we more and more see, we didn't develop artificial intelligence.

We are artificial intelligence. That is just the only thing that we can produce because that's who we are. but maybe there is a potential to be something else the work with the animals is important to find this to locate it so it's not about the animal movements you know look at the animal movement but it's about a connection to the capacity of the body to still produce those things

the spinal waves when they're practiced a lot the real spinal wave people would be shocked when they are close to the person who can really do it it can be felt heard experience from outside

and there is no movement almost from the outside that's what it becomes emblematic every practice become gestural from big circles to small circles to a dot as the Taoist realized, it's the same.

And so this is the real potency of working with the animal archetypes. I think it is rarely done. Most people who speak of the animal usually are in the outskirts of that practice, which is good to start. I love the animal movements and, you know, but it was a nice piece. I also manipulated it to gain certain attention to get what I really want.

going there. Until today, people approach me for this, for that, and then they realize what we're actually oh my God.

Very last question. Take your time with it. But if you had 60 seconds to share one message with humanity, what would you say? It's a simple thing. I'm going to break my rule.

I'm going to give you an answer. Practice. practice become a practice not because you choose to in that sense because you realize that this is the only thing

that is going to happen anyways you are at practice the universe is at practice everything is at practice now you can align with it and you can choose on that strata to join it which changes the whole game

That's the gift that we receive. The gift of that choice, that alignment. That's the message. The message is to join the real party. This is a beautiful thing to be here. And the beautiful thing is to be in practice. The most potent thing I could bring, I could give anyone, And I gift myself, it is that.

This conversation and your work has inspired me to deepen my own practice and bring more aliveness and change it up, you know, examine where I've been stagnant in it. And it's been a very alive and fun conversation. I enjoyed it as well. Yeah, it was great, man. we're going to leave links down in the description where people can find you stay connected with your work find those tutorials explore their body all of it that's that's it for me man thank you so much thank you very much yeah all right everyone until next time be well