Know Thyself - E27 - Oren Harris: Find Flow State & Become The Master Your Life

Episode Date: January 3, 2023

Oren Harris explains how to find freedom in Flowstate and master anything in life. He shares his story of having a spontaneous spiritual awakening, overcoming anxiety with public speaking, and discovering the magic in Flowstate. He explains how to transcend the old habits & mind patterns that hold us back, and expand our own identity. He also explains a formula for expansion, and how to listen to what your body is asking for. Oren also describes how to create a divine union partnership, and the holding of the masculine heart.      ___________ Timecodes: 0:00 Intro  2:34 Freedom in Flowstate 9:50 How Oren found Flow  23:14 How to find Flow  34:00 Transcending & Expanding Identity  46:35 Turning Devotion into Transformation 51:54 Formula for Expansion 1:01:05 Balancing Masculine & Feminine  1:08:16 Divine Union 1:20:42 Holding the Masculine Heart  1:23:51 Conclusion ___________ Oren Harris:   Oren Harris is a transformational coach, a spiritual teacher, and a pioneer on the leading edge of human consciousness.   His primary mission in life is helping people wake up to their true selves to live a limitless life of contribution and fulfillment. ​ He awakens them to their unique genius and the higher-self within to have a profound impact on the planet through the full expression of their soul’s gifts and fulfillment of purpose.   Oren helps leaders, entrepreneurs, influencers, visionaries and creatives tap into the incredible power of flow. He bridges them to their high mind to have a profound impact on the planet through the full expression of their soul gift. ​ ​Despite his accolades and abilities, Oren's real super power is simply his love and presence which reminds people of who they really are while drawing out the best in us.     Website: https://www.orenharris.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/orenharris/ Join the Limitless Circle: https://login.circle.so/checkout/the-limitless-circle-membership?request_host=thelimitless.circle.so   ___________   Know Thyself Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/knowthyself/ Website: https://www.knowthyself.one Clips Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJ4wglCWTJeWQC0exBalgKg   Listen to all episodes on Audio:  Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4FSiemtvZrWesGtO2MqTZ4?si=d389c8dee8fa4026 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/know-thyself/id1633725927     André Duqum Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andreduqum/   Meraki Media https://merakimedia.com https://www.instagram.com/merakimedia/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Most stress is the difference between who we think we should be and who we really are. It's this deep desire just to feel worthy. Finding flow and finding one's true self are almost the same pathway. Our senses expand. We access an intelligence, power that is always there and always present that we're not separate from. A muscle memory, neural pathways, knowledge, and information, it's still light frequency. If the end product of knowledge is being, in theory, if, If you could access the frequency of something and let it absorb you and become it, you

could play a complicated piece of music that might take you years to master without ever having done it before. We can also learn things we've never done before. When I started speaking, my main preparation was not being in my own way. At the end of the day, everyone just wants to be themselves and feel good about it. Hello, beautiful people. Welcome back to the Know Thyself podcast where every single week we get the honor. and privileged to sit down with an open heart, a brilliant mind,

and to see what we can glean from the insights that they've learned in their lives. Today, I'm really excited for this conversation. We're going to have with a dear friend of mine. He is a mastery coach and awakener of evolutionary human potential for high CEOs. The CEOs don't have to be high. CEOs, high performers and coaches all around the world. He is somebody that's an expert in flow and flow state. And flow is essentially a peak performance state of consciousness that is highly sought after

and is known for its inherent power, ease, and grace. And his mission is to help people find this, discover an awaken to the God within. And he's just somebody that I feel is here to awaken people's realization to their own unique soul's gifts. He's a wizard in his own right. And he's somebody that I feel brings a very expanded perspective to. the arena of personal growth and what that means and the intersection of personal growth, self-realization and self-actualization. So without further ado, my guest, Orrin Harris.

Awesome, brother. I'm so excited to be here. Thank you for having me. Yeah, I'm excited to drop in deep, man. We always seem to go there in combo. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. I'm really looking forward to the many avenues in which we can go into today. We can touch on so many things. And what I want to what I want to touch on because I feel like it's a strong understanding and expanded perspective that you carry with understanding flow what it is in our life and such. So what I want to start with is that if suffering in life comes from being in resistance to life and mastery comes from being in flow with life, then how do you help people discover

freedom in their life by finding flow in their life? Well, finding flow and finding one's true. true self are almost the same pathway. And when I say true self, I just mean that which exists beyond our ideas, how we've defined our self, our memories of ourselves, our conditioning, our beliefs, all the things in the structure of the self as we are on a pathway of awakening, I would liken that to discovering flow because what happens when we're in flow in a flow state when we're experiencing flow, somehow, some way we've gotten beyond the eye, the perception of ourself. We've expanded beyond the structure of what we call ourselves. And that's where all of

this amazing stuff sends to happen. Our senses expand. We access an intelligence, a power that is always there and always present that we're not separate from. But that, that a way of of the true self and being in a flow state are almost the same thing and the reason one of the reasons why we feel free like free to be ourselves is because we've expanded beyond the structures of our own conditioning and you know the fears the biases the things that kind of hold the flow of us you know the flow of our true expression from just flowing yeah our being. Yeah, for sure. I think that's beautiful just understanding to move beyond our condition self and to be able to tap into essentially connection with Soros, with the truest part of ourself, the self with the capital S self. And I think most people are familiar with the term flow in terms of peak performance where they see like athletes just operating at this like next level of

performance. Right, right. However, I think flow can also be not in in crazy deal. doing, you know, and whatever you're creating in the life, but also just like a state of being and how that can flow into everything else. So how would you describe and maybe give some examples of like how you have or supported others and what that frequency of flow actually feels like. Well, it's interesting. Like when we're in flow, I would say that we can experience flow like as a state of being, meaning like there's not a lot of activity. But what's actually happening in flow is that being and doing merge, right? and this, the doer, the doer in us, like, I am doing this. I'm exerting mental effort and energy to do something.

That part kind of starts to dissolve. And that's why our doing, our action feels effortless when we're in flow, right? The part of us that's trying to do something, like that aspect of our persona or identity has quieted. And that's why even though we're doing, like take an athlete in an incredible performance, there's a lot of action and activity happening in that, but internally, there's not a lot of activity, right? So there's not a lot of doing, so it's more like it's being done through you. Yeah.

Right, versus like I am doing this. Creativity is a very simple example to see when we receive divine inspiration, when we receive downloads, when we receive something like that, and then we channel it into expression, it's more like we're being a space for it, a conduit for it. We're like directing the flow of it. So it doesn't feel like we're doing something versus if you sit down and say, I want to create an amazing piece of art. Right.

And you've got all these ideas and constructs about what that is. It's going to be good. Is it going to be bad? That's the sensation. That's what I'm calling the doer. And that's what makes something effortful. Yeah. Right.

And so being and doing merge when we're in flow. Yeah. And I think ultimately that is the highest. expression of ourselves where we are inherently abundant creatures when we come into life connected to source where our being is effortless in its own nature. And then we go into the world, we pick up our own conditioning, we attach all these beliefs of how we think we should operate. And we kind of lose that connection to our inner child, to our inner artist, to that flow state that is natural to us. And so it's just a powerful reframe. And it's, I think, an important

invitation for whoever's listening to this right now. that it is a state of being that we always are connected to, but often is like hidden under the rug. Right. Yeah, we can go with the flow. We can go against the flow. We can allow the flow. We can block the flow.

The flow is what we're calling the flow just is. It's our natural state. It's nature. It's how like it's the flow of the universe. And so we're not really gaining or losing the flow. We're not really accomplishing. Sure, there's certain things that we can do or not do. That's why there's a whole flow hacking industry, right?

There's all kinds of things that we can do to try to trigger a flow state, but it's really important fundamentally to understand that it's actually our natural state. Yeah. When we have somehow, some way gotten beyond borders of our ideas of ourselves, especially the ideas that create tension and resistance. You know, like most stress. is the difference between who we think we should be and who we really are or who we are in our natural state of being. And so when we're in a flow state, we're in a low stress state because we're not operating under the constructs of all of these ideas of who we think we should be or what we think we should be doing.

Yeah. Basically to try to gain approval and love, I mean, at the core of it. Right. Like that's really what starts to harden our identity. Yeah. And block the flow. It's, It's this deep desire to just to feel worthy and to feel loved. Yeah, it just, it always baffles me how many underlying, there's this undercurrent of our real motivation for various different things that we do in life. And when you kind of dissolve that separation in the internal divisions that we have of why we're actually doing something versus what we think we should be doing, and those accumulated beliefs and conclusions that we've, you know, created in life, when you're

actually at in the effortless flow where there's ease and grace and in the energy of flow in life, then your life just becomes so much more fulfilled and joyful because you're at one with what is. And because suffering comes from not being at one with what it is. 100%. 100%. So, yeah, for you, man, has there been a couple periods in your life where anything, you know, any stories that you want to share where you were not operating within flow and then something, some way, whether it was a realization, an insight, a ceremony, a connection, a relationship, it kicked

you into flow. And then you saw the flip of the catalyst of, you know, that new expanded reality where maybe you saw a different manifestation or something kind of come on the other side of that. Yeah, there's been several deaths and rebirths and just deep life challenges and lessons that have awakened me to more flow. I would say one of the more significant ones was I was in a relationship many years ago. This is over 10 years ago. And deeply in love with this woman. And essentially her family didn't know about our relationship because they were, I wouldn't say they were, well, I can't really speak for them because I didn't meet them.

But they were, they wouldn't have approved of our relationship because she was white, right? And so let's just say they were racist. All right. Call it what it is. I just call it what it is. Okay. So her family was racist. We were in love and falling deeper in love and starting to think about like getting married or maybe having kids.

And as we started getting deeper, like the, we're basically, we're going to have to tell your parents. Like otherwise, like, we're not going to hide from them for the rest of our lives. anyway so just as we're approaching this season of like coming out of the closet and sharing with the parents and whatnot her dad passed away um which was just incredibly painful for her and for the whole family like she was super close with her dad and they had a very very tight-knit family and so that was uh very traumatic and so then we're like well we're not going to like bring the news to them now, right? So that, you know, we went through that period of time with her dad passing away. And then she wound up getting pregnant.

Wow. To just add more to all of the intensity that was happening. And so long story short or medium story, we made a decision, or she essentially made the decision to have an abortion. She was like, there's no way I could, you know, share this with my family at this time of incredible grief. And so that just put another, like, major intensity on an already intense situation. Right. And that then started impacting our relationship. It was just a really, really hard time.

And then she got pregnant again. Wow. Yeah. Which is just absolutely crazy. I mean, and crazy, like crazy intense and crazy difficult. And so, like, I mean, if you could imagine like the soup of emotion presence from her dad passing away to now having two abortions. And it's not like she was like pro abortion either. She was just terrified.

Yeah. And so that puts. an intense strain on a relationship and somewhere in the midst of just doing my best to like love her and to love us and to find ways to feel better to feel good to inspire her to like even want to live right she's feeling incredible guilt somewhere in the process of all that i had what i would only describe as like a spontaneous awakening like i had so much desire to make things better and so much inability and effectiveness in doing so that it just like like the cross current of that just like snap something in me and I just kind of like woke up from my own mind or was able to see not only

our relationship but see myself within the relationship from a different vantage point and I was like oh okay this is what's happening these are my feelings and these are my thoughts and I was just like kind of observing them and I'm trying to put words to it now because I'm like have I can speak a lot more intelligently about it now but I want to tell the story true to like how it happened and so like I was having these aha moments and realizations which then inspired me I was like oh man I can really save the relationship and that didn't really work either right you know just bringing all of this enlightened perspective into the relationship Anyway, during that period of time, I started attracting different pieces of knowledge.

I think the power of now Eckert Tolle came into my sphere. And when he was telling his story of awakening and being on a park bench and what he was describing, I was like, that's exactly what I'm experiencing. And so the things that I was knowing and intuiting that was coming into my awareness, not even from a book, just from this awakening, I was now also seeing some words to describe what it was that was happening. So that was a major event in my life. And in that same period of time, I started re-evaluating myself on a very, very deep level. And another major chapter within that, as I was observing in my mind, was I came across this book called How to Believe in

Nothing and Set Yourself Free. And I think it's out of print. I didn't even read the whole book. I read like two pages, but essentially what it said, which really struck me was that our beliefs pacify us with the illusion of security. And I started inspecting all of my beliefs. I'm like, what are all the things that I believe are true and why? And where did they came from? And they come from me. And that was both terrifying and liberating at the same time to really question my perceptions and beliefs about myself and the world. And that was a nut. That kind of added. to this spontaneous awakening. And so that was a major period of my life.

And then, you know, sometime after that, I mean, this is a whole other chapter. But building on that is when I really started, first of all, getting way more infused with just being in the present moment. It's like my mind quieted down, right? And in this season of exploring and experiencing presence, I just, I started being in flow more. And then I had a major flow experience, fast forward maybe like two years later, where I had started coaching.

And I basically interviewed a life coach, a friend of mine, two life coaches. And they said, if you're a great speaker, then this is a good way to build your coaching practice. And so I went to Toastmasters. I signed up to do my first talk. Toastmasters is a public speaking organization. They teach you the art of speaking how to master the craft. And I went home and I wrote out my first talk. I was all excited.

It's called Who Am I? I wrote up this talk. I'm walking around in my apartment and doing different inflections and stuff I'd seen on TV. I'm like, who am I? Who, who am I? It was videotaping myself, pacing around. And I just got to this point where I was feeling like super anxious and I wasn't even on stage yet. And I literally thought to myself, I'm like, if I'm this anxious and I'm not even on stage yet, maybe the speaking thing isn't for me.

And so I almost quit before I even started, but I'm like, I'm going to go do this talk. And then something inside me, I don't even know where it came from. Probably an accumulation of experiences and just intuitive knowledge. It's like, you know what, I'm not going to go try to do a good talk. I'm going to go up there, speak from my heart, be myself, get it over with, and move on with my life. And so I did that. I didn't take my notes up there. I got up on stage, said, who am I?

I started my talk. And then when it was over, which felt very timeless, I got a standing ovation. And then I was very present doing my best to take the energy in and receive it. But in the back of my mind, I was thinking I'm the guy who's walking around like a nervous wreck in my apartment who was like, fuck this. You're right? So I'm like, but people are like, yeah. And I sat down in the back of the room and I was just like in this very, it was very surreal to me. And I was getting all these amazing feedback slips of comments for people.

This was amazing. Made me cry. Best iceberger I've ever heard. The president of the club compared me to Martin Luther King. I was like, what in the hell is happening here? But I did my best to take it in. And then at the end of that meeting, people were coming up to me and telling me about their experience. And it wasn't what they were saying, but I could really feel they were trying to put words to something.

And they were like, wow, that was amazing. Anyway, I went home. And over the next few days, I really was just listening and asking the question, like, what happened? What, like, how did this happen? What happened? why were people looking at me like I was a genius and I was like, fuck it. Anyway, two kind of revelations came to me. The first one was, at the end of the day, everyone just wants to be themselves and feel good about it.

And because I was willing to be myself, meaning share my heart, being the truth of the moment, it wasn't my words. I was my heart, because I was in my heart, my heart was speaking to their heart. because I was connected to spirit and connected to the truth of the moment, I was able to speak to and ignite something in their spirit. Then I was like, if that's speaking, I can do that because I am that. Clearly something in that is already in me. And so I then said, I'm a speaker.

And I never went back to Toastmasters. I've been speaking for over probably 15 years now. Anyway, that experience, I remembered feeling that and experiencing that. that in sports. And athletes call that the zone. And I was like, oh, I was in the flow. So then I went gangbusters on my like a mad scientist in researching and exploring flow. And that's how that became the first thing I was speaking about. So the relationship and the Toastmasters experience were two significant periods of my life that just cracked me open. Yeah. It's not even like I was trying to pursue these things.

These are revelations and realizations that I had that were catalyze by like deeply, deeply painful and traumatic event. Yeah. Powerful, man. Thank you so much for sharing. I think in real transformation, real transformation either comes from a deep emotional impact or repetition. And you explain both stories, one that was a little bit more positive.

an uplifting and a celebratory moment and another one very painful. I think that when we, the pain of not being ourselves becomes unbearable, we then break into who we truly are. And that's what you kind of describe with that moment of the relationship, where it's so much suffering, so much pain of being in this position where you're not tapped into the truth of who you are, that then becomes a catalyst to know yourself at a deeper level. Totally. With the Toastmasters experience, you know, you got an experience of what's possible in a certain

state of consciousness when you are not in the way. Right. Exactly. And I'm like, okay, I'm going to double down on that. Yeah. So literally, like, when I started speaking, my main preparation was not being in my own way. Anything that would allow me to actually, it actually became a goal at one point to be empty, to be connected to my heart and to be empty or present, right, which was really unnatural initially. But I just intuitively, knew and I was really willing to ride that edge and even thoughts about what if I get on the stage and I don't say anything. Do you know what I mean? To just to contemplate being, you know, and that level of exposure in front of an audience and truly being in the moment, that was

something I guess then it became a little bit scientific in the sense of like, I'm like, oh, that's how I'm going to prepare. And yeah, I honed, I've honed my ability, but my ability has more so been honed by spirit, by truth, by my own evolution than it has been by trying to be a good speaker. Do you feel like you need a certain level of skill in order to be able to drop in the quote unquote zone? For example, when I'm learning a song on piano, it's a little bit rigid at first. At a certain point, my body knows it secondhand and I don't have to think about it at all

and I can close my eyes and just flow. And it's like you said earlier, the doing and the doer just collapse into one. And like, that's such a sweet spot. And it's so enjoyable to be in that zone. But if I don't have the skill of actually playing piano, then... This is a good question, bro. I got asked this question on an interview a while back. And the guy who asked me the question, he basically didn't ask it as a question.

He said, he made it as a statement. He said, but you kind of become unconsciously competent as something once you get a certain level of skill. You know, neural networks get created in your brain. you've got the muscle memory and then you're just like you don't have to think about it so you're more in a state of being and you can do it and i said i said yes and that doesn't account for like because here's the thing muscle memory neural pathways knowledge and information it's still light frequency right and so that is the primary path of learning something right we we we take in information and knowledge play with it, we put it into action, we get a result and experience, a state of being, a feeling.

And then, yeah, so that is one pathway, but I was sharing with him because it is intelligent information and information is actually light frequency, we can also learn things we've never done before. We can remember things because it's all knowledge and information. It's frequency. Does that make sense? And my favorite story that demonstrates this, I have. probably hundreds of them that that are the exception to what we're saying is like i had no prior

knowledge of that thing no experience of that thing and then come in and seem like you know like learn super fast or it's like well how did i know this right if i hadn't practiced it all right so one i'm saying it's possible yes right so there's another pathway there may not be the norm but it's certainly possible so my favorite example of this is one day one day day I was doing a like a little fun YouTube episode called The O Show, right? And it's like I was, it's like a day in life of Oren Harris inside the mind, heart and consciousness of O. And on this particular day, I was going to a gymnastics class. And the reason I was going to a gymnastics class and doing it as an episode, because I'm like, okay, for those of you who are saying, yeah,

oh, we know you're a great speaker and you're great at this, this and this and you can really flow. But what about when it's something new? So I'm like, I'm going to pick something. thing I have no experience in, right? And maybe even a little fear around. So I go into this gymnastics class and turns out it was an intermediate class. Didn't know that, but I was like, all right, we're here. Let's go. This is even more perfect because I'm like, here I am, you know, brand new, complete beginner. So we go into this class. We're doing a couple moves like cartwheels, stuff I'd done as a kid. So I'm like, okay, got that, got that. And then the guy says, now we're going to do back hand springs.

And this, this, in that moment, my body like clenched up and I was like, oh shit. Like, whoa. Because not only have I never done it before,

but just growing up, the thought of even going backwards, even like in the pool off a diving board, was disorienting and scary to me. Yeah. So I had no experience and fear. And so I was like, boom, game on. Like, this is my flowability moment.

This is the moment to test my flow. So I'm like three people back in line to go up with this instructor and do the back flip or the back hand spring. And I literally like collapsed all the memory. Like I felt the fear in my body. The memory, I didn't have a memory of doing a backflip, but the memory just meaning like, oh, I am afraid of that. Right. And I'm saying this in a way that might sound a little bit simplistic because at this point I have pretty masterful at flow. Right. But let's see if I can break down and pull the nuggets out of it. But I just want to tell the story as it happened. So I basically collapsed that into the present moment, came into the zero point of just pure presence. And almost like watched like a baby would be watching or listening to someone teaching them language.

I'm just watching people and feeling. Remember I said it's like everything's frequency, like information's frequency. So I'm watching people do the back handspring. And more so than like listening with my brain and trying to understand and connect it, which is typically how we learn, I'm feeling. So it's almost like I'm reverse learning because if I can feel the information, then that's that's the information. And so I was just watching and feeling.

And now it's my turn to go up there. And I'm waiting for this guy to, like, get me some dope instructions. You're like, hey, you know, you want to like, you know, literally think about the physics of this. Like how, like, do I jump this way, that way? Like how much, how little. He, because it was an intermediate class, he's like, oh, just, you know, throw yourself backwards. And like, you can do it. And at first I was like, but, but, but wait a minute.

But then I just like, it was like, okay, same thing. I was like, all right. and literally I was just like this and I was like okay like exactly no no thought I was like and so I was like going like this for a minute I throw myself backwards and I like kind of land a little crooked but I landed and it's kind of like the moment when I was speaking well I was like that just happened but then I was like instead of going back in the mind I was just like back in the moment he's like cool let's do it again so I'm waiting for this guy to like spot me maybe give me some feedback, something.

And he's like, oh, you got it. And I was like, what? Oh, I got it. You're right. Back into the moment. Yeah. Through myself, boom. So basically, long story short, I learned to do,

and I realized I was almost doing a backflip, like completely instead of a backhand spring. And I basically learned to do a back flip in like 56 seconds. Right? Totally. Yeah. That's an example of something that I had no experience of and no skill. And does that make sense, though, when I say that, like, it's, it's like if the end product of knowledge is being, right?

Yeah. That's frequency. In theory, if you could access the frequency of something and let it above. absorb you and become it, then it will infuse into your body and your brain. Or you can, just like an artist, channeling a great piece of work, right? You could be the conduit to manifest something like that. Disclaimer, I do not recommend that anybody ever set out to try to do something like that because it could be very dangerous.

Yeah. So that's, that's an example. And I have plenty of examples. And last thing I'll say on that is that, you know, the gene keys. Right. I'm not that familiar with the gene keys, but I think it was the 16th gene key. I was looking at the city and it was talking about, I think it was the shadow's indifference and then it's versatility and then the city's mastery. And when I was reading mastery and the difference between versatility and mastery, it essentially explained exactly what I just said. So I was like, oh, somebody else is saying there's another pathway because they're saying if you're in the acidic state of mastery, then you could play a compliment.

complicated, you know, like Beethoven's fifth concerto, whatever, a complicated piece of music that might take you years to master without ever having done it before. Yeah. So the point, the only point here is that that is possible more so than that is. Yeah, I know. That was my answer to your question. Totally. I agree. I totally think it's possible.

I think that if information is just light and on our most subtle level, we, are quantum beings and we are inherently connected to the prevalent unicity that is always around us. On some level, if we're able to tap into that, I think that we can gain access to information and feel into an action and pay attention in a way that collapses time and for our ability to quantum leap in that way. I totally think that's possible. So I think there's both sides of it. And I think it's interesting to speak to the fact that it is definitely possible. And for most people to kind of ground it a little bit less of the esoteric and kind of back down into how this affects and applies to our everyday life, ultimately, I've come to learn that emptying your mind is much more valuable than filling it. And in preparation for going out into the world and creating a job or doing an interview or something that maybe we're fearful of,

becoming at ease, you operate best when you're at ease within yourself. 100%. And so whatever it is that somebody's listening to this, whatever you're doing, whether it's a relationship or a job interview or something that you maybe have nerves or fears around, there is this sense of ease that you can bring into it and like kind of a deep trust in life and in yourself that is not operating just within the mind's worries and concerns and protection and trying to perceive threats for your own survival, then you just become so much more present. And the only place you actually have the power to do anything is when you're present.

So I think it's just, it's a powerful framework and re-understanding to empty your mind and to be able to tap into this energy. And we can talk about different modalities and ways to actually tap into that because it's one, it's one thing to understand and have the insight that it's possible and that you can do it. It's another to actually develop the capacity to own that within yourself and to develop that real in-time mastery. Totally.

One thing that came to me as you were saying that is that there's many ways that's happened to that through the body, through the breath. You know, you can work with the mind. You can work with emotions. But with the mind, you know, going back to identity, one of the things, especially in the field of performance, you know, whether you consider yourself a high performer

or you're just trying to accomplish something, is really deconstructing your identity as it connects to success and failure. I think this is one of the more challenging things or ways that this practically manifests that blocks flow is that when we have created an identity around being successful and around failing, like an identity, an identity essentially gets created because we're connecting our value and our worth, right, which is now something different to just what we're trying to accomplish. So instead of saying, okay, I'm succeeding at this or I'm failing at it, it's like I am a success and that means this and I am a failure, which is the opposite, and it means this.

And at the core, how it gets internalized is that I'm not as valuable. I'm not as worthy if I don't get the A, if I don't pass the thing, if I don't win the game. Right. And that's one of the things that actually creates unnecessary tension and stress and blocks flow is when we have connected our sense of self and internal value with succeeding at something rather than those being two different things. Totally. And so I've, in working with high performers and also working with myself, one of the ways that I've accessed more flow is by deconstructing this identity. in connection to what it means to fail. Right.

Like what is that, what does that even mean in returning to a more childlike state? It's like a baby learning to walk is like the quintessential example, right? They're succeeding and failing constantly, but they're not saying, oh my God, I should know how to walk by now because I'm one, you know,

and all of my other one-year-old friends are walking or sprinting across the room. There's not, they're not internalizing of value judgment on themselves. So then it's pure creativity. It's pure exploration. You know, it's trial and error. You try this, try that.

Right, that's, and that's natural. That's a great example to show that it is natural. We don't, as beings, we don't naturally fear failure. So when we say we fear failure, we're talking about the fear of feeling things like shame. All fear is a fear of feeling if you really look at it. And so, you know, in deconstructing the mind and these mental constructs of significance or what it means if I, you know, if I'm the champion versus I'm the loser,

it really on an emotional level comes down to being able to be with and permeate feelings like judgment and shame. Yeah. That's what takes the power out. Because when we are consciously or unconsciously, afraid to feel things like shame, then this is what then holds the mental constructs, the beliefs about ourselves in place

to try to protect us from feeling shame. Does that make sense? Yeah. And so that's one, I mean, we could get more intricate with that, but that's one way to expand your capacity to tap into flow more, even as it relates to performance. is to find and locate these feelings that we have a difficult or challenging time feeling.

And bring our presence and our attention there and be with those feelings. So we release the fear of feeling it. We release the resistance to it. And that frees up our life force. So then when we're in a moment, whether it's a challenging life situation or we're in game seven, you know what I mean? And we're like trying to accomplish something. then we don't have that same inertia or resistance that kicks in that puts our body into a state of contraction

because we're trying to uphold our identity. Yeah. So much of our energy gets wasted in upholding someone who we're not. Right. And I think that you spoke to identity beautifully and I was actually going to go there next. So it seems like we're in flow of this conversation. But, you know, who we've been has got us to where we are. It's not going to get us to where we're going.

And I think that a true transformation in our reality comes from a transformation in our identity. And it's not to change from one identity to another. Even though feeling good enough is better than feeling not good enough. They're both still a story about yourself, which is illusory. And so I feel like to find real freedom, it comes in expanding a sense of identity. It's placing whatever the content of our experiences in a larger context of awareness. And from that place, we desire less of the clinging to, attach ourselves to the survival of whatever identity that we've placed in our reality.

And we realize that it's still there, but it's operating within a larger field of context and awareness. So then you get to play and you get to be in this game of life and be whoever you want to put on whatever costume you want for the day and then you can take it off the end of the day and realize it's not you. A hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. Great. There's just, I think there's just so much that comes from understanding and having self-inquiry to what are those coping mechanisms that we've created, which are just simple behavioral adaptations due to an identity structure we've created

unconsciously at some point in our life. And that is going to be like you spoke to, a large reason for the lack of flow and for the reason why we experience so much suffering is because we're not actually who we are. Totally. Yeah. And I think that, you know, it's interesting because these identity structures often come up in relation to things like a role that we're playing or like for example most people when they're

traveling not everybody some people are super anal about traveling but most people when they're traveling consciously or unconsciously give themselves permission to be more free right maybe they don't have as many responsibilities and so then it's like they relax and their consciousness expands and they maybe experience more flow when they're traveling right maybe for an artist they're like okay this is my art this is just for me right right So there's not all these links to the physical world. So maybe you're more able to be in flow and these identity structures not come up when you're doing your art. But then if you're in business and you have other humans and you have a team or if you're an artist and you now have fans or if you have millions of fans,

then this is the type of thing that brings up these potential, like these identity structures that now have their own agenda independent of what it is that you're trying to. to accomplish but just illustrating that to show that like it it's it just it's it's it's the same thing meaning we are whoever we are essentially in every single environment it's just who we've created ourselves to be and what significance we've given that creates this extra tension and stress that blocks flow you know when the stakes are high enough or when money's involved you know what I mean or just something that that the persona is like, you know, must not experience pain. And that's ultimately what blocks the flow.

But that's also how you can, if you're looking at this scientifically, that's how you can expand your capacity to be more and flow and to perform better by lovingly dissolving, or like you said, expanding your identity. Yeah, man. There's just, I think most people don't realize to the degree, in which they have an investment in maintaining their neuroses, meaning they have so much writing on who they perceive themselves to be that they will oftentimes fight for the illusion of who

they think they are. And they're going to look for all the reflections in their reality and attract the relationships and the finances and everything to be a match to who they think they are. And it could be for the better or for the worse. But being able to dissolve and expand, the sense of who we think we are allows us to tap back into that and we just become creatures that are much more in flow with life, which is inherently abundant. And like when you can tap back into that, that's when you can experience a quantum leap in your life because you're collapsing time essentially. Who we think we are is operating in this identity structure that operates in time. And when we're tapping back into who we are, which is inherently, inherently abundant and free and peaceful in our, in our true essence,

then we become a match to that in ways we can't even understand or comprehend or intellectually think is going to happen in a certain order. But then you become available to life surprising you in ways greater than you could ever perceive. And that's when life gets really fun because you're at one with the mystery of life's unfoldment instead of your projection of thinking it needs to unfold in a certain way. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's really heightened right now because of all the chaos in the world. it's like meaning like the resistance to the unknown yeah you know things are changing so fast

yeah um and it's creating a lot of us like humans being in the in the unknown and that being in the unknown can be scary can be frightening it could be you know but that's where the instinct of like trying to control life comes from you know or trying to grab onto something known whether it's knowledge to try to protect ourselves or even like knowledge of who we are. And so I feel like everything is heightened right now. It's intensified. Totally. And it's a double-edged sword. And it's, you know, one thing for us to speak from our position, whether we do have privilege in many ways to be able to, you know, dive into self-inquiry and ponder on the nature of identity and and with the intensity of experiencing the, I guess, polarities of our experience, it gives us

opportunity to take responsibility for using whatever we're going through that is challenging as opportunities, as mirrors for deepening our sense of who we are. And so what you spoke to, like that relationship that you were in earlier, where it's very difficult, and we've all had these moments, right, whether it's relationships tend to be some the biggest ones. Yeah. But there's there is this mirror in whatever life is showing you right now for the listeners, whatever life is showing you, whatever difficulty you're going through, it's tapping you back into and you can't see it moving forward. You can only see it looking backwards. But in some way, life is orchestrating you to reveal who you truly are to you. I fully believe

that because I've seen that in my own journey and I've heard it in yours. Always. Yeah. It's it's always the case. We don't always see it like you said. It's often in hindsight where it's like, oh my God, I'm dying. I'm losing. Everything's like falling apart. And then if we, you know, if we lean into that or get forced into it and then have the breakthrough and we have an expanded awareness and all of a sudden we start receiving and perceiving the gain. Yeah. Right. Totally. And I think after enough times of that happening over and over and over again, maybe your brain and you start to kind of just know that, okay, I can't. can't see the gold in this yet, but it's there. You know what I mean? And I'm here for it.

So then we start releasing the resistance, not to say that it gets easier, but in a sense, it can because part of what makes a transformation difficult is actually our resistance to it because our current sense of self is perceiving and experiencing a loss or like something bad is happening. Yeah. You know, so. Totally. I think that the more we die to who we're not, then what remains is just who we are.

And like you're speaking to, the more that we go through the fire of self-transformation and death, we realize how much life is on the other side of it. And then you can actually start to embrace and walk towards the fire of self-transformation. Right. And that's when life gets really interesting because you realize how the story ends.

Right, right. You can embrace discomfort. You can embrace the fire and the death of who you're not because you realize that who you are is on the other side of that and who you are is the greatest thing that you'll find in your life. Totally. Yeah, I like to say listen to the whispers before they become screams. Or at least that's what's happened for me.

Having crossed that threshold so many times into new life and expanded awareness and the gift of the adversity or the challenge that it's really inspired me to listen to the whispers before they become screams, right? The whispers of the soul, the whispers of the heart, the whispers of the body that is intelligently telling you, pay attention to this. I know you're busy. I know you've got things to do, but like, slow down, listen,

pay attention. These are the whispers. If you don't listen, it goes, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, pah! And then it becomes a yell. That yell might be that you're sick now or you're bedridden or you've lost everything or, and sometimes we feel victim, victim to life because like, oh my God, I didn't see this. It came out of left field or like,

why is life punishing me? Right. But if you really look beneath the surface deeply, honestly, you'll see that there was whispers. There were signs. You didn't recognize them. Maybe you didn't pay attention to them. But there's intelligence. There's these whispers through your intuition, through your body, where there's knowing. And so it's interesting to contemplate, you know, a society or a world where we don't have to have so much scream or chaos to like listen to something that matters for us, for the planet, you know, to just like listen. And so, yeah, I've noticed over the years that I started treating the whispers the same way I would to scream because it's the same thing. It's just not in, it's not in its intense

state of resistance. But it doesn't mean that it's not just as important. So that's been a practice of mine is to like pay attention when I'm expanding and I start getting a sense, you know, whispers from my soul or from my heart or even just from my being that are, it's like, oh, the transformation is happening. Yeah. And I think that's one of the reasons why I experience a fair amount of what looks like grace and not always dramatic transformation.

you know, dramatic catalysts, which are obviously very effective too. So nothing against the dramatic catalyst. And there's just more available to us, more support that life is offering us. That's also coming through subtlety. It's coming through whispers. It's coming through, okay, my life is maybe even good. But when you're going from good to great or from great to extraordinary just to use words, there is a transformation happening.

Yeah. Yeah. And if we want to develop self-mastery, then it's in the ability to be proactive and listening to what those whispers are. Right. Like you're actively moving in the direction and seeking out and paying attention to

what are those various whispers. It could be on a physiological level with your health. It could be on a psychological level with your mind. It could be on a soul level for what wants to come through you or what you want to create. but the people that are masterful in life are those that have brought forth what wants to come through them. There's like a meeting life half away where you're actively taking steps into that direction. You're not just waiting for the metaphorical, proverbial cosmic two by four to slap you in the

face. Right. Exactly. You actually take those active steps. And then that's where I feel like grace does come into the picture because you're allowing your sensitivity to guide you through life and not just the harsh, brash, you know, reflections in mirrors that life can give us. And I think that's a really beautiful way to live life and something that I've totally in my journey called forth and tried to develop self-mastery in many areas, but first and foremost with myself, because it feels like at least earlier in my journey, and I'm sure you can relate, there was a bigger fear of not actualizing a lot of my potential. I know people that are listening to this, you guys can relate that you feel that there's so much potential within you. You know, there's so much.

much that can come through you and come out of you for the world as an offering for yourself. You can live this inherently abundant, prosperous life where you're really contributing to the world in a big way. And I feel that. And if that didn't happen, man, what a shame, you know. And what we're speaking to here is just by being able to listen to those, what those whispers are and change your behavior and the actions that you're taking to actually listen to that and not just hear it, but actually do something with what you hear. Yeah. Then you can actually, um, realize so much of your potential that would have been wasted otherwise.

Totally. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like the use of our will right now and like our courage and our will needs to really be pointed more to our heart, you know, and like matters of the heart and the soul. Yeah, that's what came up when you said that in terms of listening to the whispers and then taking action. Because at the end of the day, like this expansion in whatever dimension of our life,

the challenges that we have, it almost always comes down to something relational or emotional. You know, it's like our perception of ourselves versus someone else's perception of us. You know, so where I feel like we need more courage and more bravery and to apply our will is not just to, you know, the obvious, like the things that we want to create, but also applying our will towards things like surrender if that's the whisper. The whisper is saying let go, then that might be the most courageous thing. It's like, what does letting go look like in this example right now? Does it look like saying something that I wouldn't have said? Does it look like not saying something when I would say something?

And then being, you know, taking action in these areas that really allow for that transformation that happened, the expansion to happen, the gift to be realized that life is offering. you and support even when it's coming through something challenging. Yeah, totally, man. I feel like that expanded way of being and that transcendent way of being that you can realize and harness then affects a transcendent way of doing in your life. For example, there is a level of commitment and willpower that is necessary and discipline that feels a little bit more rigid if you want to go and create your dreams. Versus there is this energy of devotion that you can have towards something.

And there is like a level of effortlessness that comes from that. So do you want to touch on to how from a small, limited identity perspective, you might need a lot of discipline and willpower to get something done. But if you can evolve that into a commitment, evolve that into a devotion like you've spoken to, how that becomes just a bigger catalyst for what you actually want to come through? Yeah, I'll give a specific example. So I've got this client. She's a CEO of a publicly traded company.

She's got a huge company. She's got a team. She's a powerful leader. and she's like every leader and entrepreneur at some point, you're going to come, you know, hit kind of a glass ceiling, right, which is kind of moving into your next level. And so she was talking to me about her team and, you know, how her team's performing and how she's feeling about it, et cetera, et cetera. And essentially it came down to we used as an example, someone on her team asking her for

something, right? And so she's this powerful CEO, very capable, uses her will to be in this energy of, like, resourcefulness. I can find the answer. I either know it or I can find it, right? And that's like, great, great, great. But what was happening is that she had a default set of responses when she didn't know the answer to something, right?

And what I bought to her attention was, I was like, well, what is a different, what is something different you could do in the moment? when you don't have an answer and something important is happening and your team's asking you for something, I said, what's a different way you could approach it? And it didn't even occur to her to say, I don't know. Like it didn't even occur to her. Right.

Like to just say, you know what? I don't know, but we'll figure it out. Yeah. And that's the moment of change right there. That's an example of using your will. And instead of going, let me grind through this, let me figure out, figure it out, figure it out, and maintain the identity as the CEO,

which is not something she's thinking she's an identity. She's just trying to problem solve, right? And maintain the identity. If you're trying to maintain an identity, then that's what blocks his other pathway. And so it's like, yeah, she's like, you mean just say, I don't know? It's like, yeah, like, but that's true, though. You don't know.

Right? And it was such a beautiful and simple and powerful moment for her to even contemplate that. it literally like cracked her identity open and she got to feel the feelings that she was afraid of feeling in not knowing and got to see the opportunity for connection and intimacy and actually greater leadership and capacity to problem solve rather than less. So that's a practical life moment example and it's also an example to illustrate the call, the whisper from spirits like, oh, you want to expand your team's capacity. you want to expand your leadership capacity. Right now, it's not occurring in becoming smarter

and becoming more capable with what you're... The invitation, the actual expansion, the actual lid of your potential right now is actually your identity and your resistance to intimacy. Your resistance to connecting in a moment of intimacy with your team. And so you're actually holding your team back by being so smart. Anyway, it was a great...

transformational moment and an example of a type of way to apply our will. In this case, it's to vulnerability, it's to intimacy. And I just love something like that in the context of leadership, right, in the context of a company. And, you know, so simple. Yeah. She's like, I don't know. I was like, yeah, but you don't know. See, it's actually just the truth. It's not a revelation, you know, but you actually don't know. So what message are you sending? What possibility are you creating by being willing to be a leader also of heart and actually free your team? So I guarantee you if you're doing this, feeling like you should know, and grinding yourself, I guarantee your team's doing that as well. Yeah. Which is part of what

you're saying, she's basically saying they're kind of performing at a mediocre or level lately, right? I'm like, it's a reflection of a view as well. Anyway, it was a good moment. Yeah, it's powerful, man. I think that's such a big shift for leaders to have is like you're, if you're not leading with authenticity and vulnerability and being okay with saying, I don't know, then you're going to be spending all this energy upholding a facade of, of yourself in a leadership role, which is not going to be able to connect to your team, to your family, whatever leadership role you're in your life. We're all leaders to ourselves first and foremost. Right. And then the world around us. But if you're not showing up with that authenticity of just

what's true in your actual experience, then you're going to create a barrier to intimacy. It doesn't have to be romantic intimacy in the way most people think. But like just connection with one another. And I could see how that would be a powerful shift for her. And then the results that that would kick into gear. Yeah. And intimacy with self too. Even not even if it wasn't with another person, just this invitation for expansion that might come when you're frustrated because you're determined to do something or figure something out. And then instead of like being with the frustration and seeing like what it's what is there for you to receive, you just keep grinding through and trying to succeed so that you alleviate the frustration, which which may be a good idea

in one context, but definitely in the context of expansion or transformation, especially if you're trying to go to another level and do more and have like whether it's contribute more or take your company to the next level, it requires you to be more. It requires you to expand beyond your identity. And if you don't, I mean, you can do it as the same identity. But if you, let's say you 10x your vision or yeah, you 10x your 2x, 2x your vision, you know, your impact, your company, but you don't 2x yourself, meaning, you know, expand your heart, expand your mind or expand your consciousness, then you're predictably going to multiply your stress. Yeah.

You know, conversely, if you, one of the ways to expand into another level of creation, of leadership, of being, of giving, whatever that looks like, is to expand yourself. You know, in this example with this, my client, the CEO, this is an example of expanding one's heart, which then allows you to expand beyond the identity or the mental constructs with the beliefs that I should know how to do this, you know, because whatever you got love getting straight A's as a child or you got punished for getting bad grades. And that's what kind of sets up the identity as a high performer rather than the pure high performer, which is just innocence. It's just like pure God energy moving through us. It's pure creativity. Powerful, man. I think just discovering that balance as well, like we spoke to a little bit, listening to those whispers is kind of in the realm of feminine energy.

And developing a healthy balance is, I think, so important on the path of self-mastery. Very important. Because unfortunately, we have a lot of individuals that are operating within a, I don't like to use the word toxic because it's so overused, but you know, kind of a wounded masculine place from the relationship to their own emotions, to the world around them, to their partner. And being able to fully process and like ultimately what we spoke to earlier about like the fear is the fear of feeling, right? And so being able to feel what is truly alive within us and have and develop come bring forth that balance of masculine and feminine. energies will like doing that on an individual basis will just find balance in your in your external reality and the right flow of masculine and feminine so is there anything you want to speak to there first yeah i would say that you know just describing the masculine and the feminine in this way

of like you know the feminine like the pure feminine it's like the energy of unconditional love of nurturing of unconditional acceptance right that energy of like the energy of like just pure being, like being able to just be fully and accept your experience, right? That's more of like this water feminine energy, right? The energy of compassion, of understanding, of seeing one's heart, of seeing one's innocence. And then I would say masculine is like the energy of clarity, of truth, of direction, of action, of creation. And it's really, really, really important to have, balance is the best word I can think of,

but it's not like a linear. I can't say two parts of this, one part of that. But here's the thing. Like, if you try to get to the enlightened awareness or the goal, the vision, the truth, but you're suppressing your feelings. I mean, you haven't had a dose of compassion or acceptance and you're like judging yourself or repressing your feelings,

even if you can into it or see clearly, like this is what I need to do. This is what the win, looks like you can't execute it or you can't execute it in a sustainable way and even if you do it won't be fulfilling right and so it's really important that there's a space of acceptance ironically acceptance is one of the fastest ways to change something it's kind of like it's like you know it's like acceptance is not positive or negative it's not like saying to act like you like you like something when you don't it just it releases the resistance right and so you know you

could look at this from either side. It's like if you have, if you try to go to the masculine and you don't have this feminine or don't have it present, then that might not work. And then the flip side of that is if you're, you know, in the feminine and in your feelings, right? And this is what a lot of masculine people are afraid of. It's like, what am I supposed to feel? You know, but I felt and it didn't work. That's, that's actually a sign that you're not purely feeling because you're like, but I tried that, you know, because there's already an agenda there. But if you go over here and you're like feeling and you're in the feminine, you're in this, you know, compassion and this energy, but then the impulse of truth of action is coming through you and you don't act

on that, then that's out of balance as well. So I see sometimes we oscillate between, you know, or separate these camps and I feel like there's more of a harmony there. There's more of a dance there. And so for me personally, and also in working with people, I've just learned how to to dance with that and see, okay, like right now, what's needed is to just feel something without the masculine, like, without the objective attached to the feeling. Trying to fix something. Yeah, you're trying to fix something, right? And I think that's also why when people say, yeah, but I felt it, you know, because they

have the knowledge of the value of feeling and of the feminine, right? but there's still feeling but from a masculine approach that's when it doesn't work right you know say feeling there's a benefit to it feeling is healing it's like but it's not working and i think that there's a nuance here that's so important and probably quite rare and that is to feel without not only without judgment but without an agenda without a goal like i'm not feeling so that i get into a flow state I'm not feeling this so that I get rid of the thing I don't want to feel. To just purely feel without a story, without an agenda, without an objective is so unnatural to humans. And it's so natural to us when we're children.

But that's where the healing happens. That's where the magic happens is just in feeling. And I've noticed one of the ways that I've helped people access this, even if they're like, but I am feeling. I'm like, yeah, you're feeling, but you're also resisting your feeling at the same time. You're feeling, but you're also trying, still trying to solve something. One of the ways I've helped people access this is to imagine that their child is feeling the same thing. Imagine your child came home from school and is like, Daddy, I'm, you know, I feel ashamed. You know, my friends don't want to hang out with me at school.

Would you pull out your favorite personal spiritual development technique in that moment and like try to help him get over the feeling? and feel empowered, probably not. Not if you felt the innocence of his heart. Not if you felt you would be a space for him being exactly how he is. And that's a huge missing piece, you know, not just for the masculine, but for the masculine in us. It's the holding of the masculine heart. So, yeah, pure feeling, right? And that's what we're calling like the feminine.

You know, because then from that, what naturally is going to arise is whatever goal or intention or direction forward or action now has a space. Now it's like it's stoking the fire, the flame of the masculine. It doesn't put it out. Yeah. Both are necessary. Without the masculine container, then the life force energy within the cell walls will just spill all over the place. without the feminine light force energy within the cell walls and you just have a dead empty cell, you know, and so it's being able to find balance. And I think that's, that nuance that you

gave is actually just really important because it's not, we often do try, especially those that have like heard this information, try to feel a certain way or just, you know, allow what it is because it means that they'll, you know, heal their trauma or they'll get past whatever they're going through. Right. And, but just to actually feel it for feeling. sake. Right. Is very, very powerful switch. Very, very powerful. Yeah. And that becomes a true carrier for and developer for intimacy within yourself.

And then when you're not doing, when you're not feeling for an agenda sake, but truly feeling for what's present within yourself and around yourself, you become, you remove the barriers for true intimacy with others as well. And, you know, we spoke to a little bit about how relationships are the biggest mirrors in our lives. And I feel like when two individuals come together, when they're having this balance of masculine and feminine energy within themselves, where they're not afraid to feel whatever is present and allow the mirror that is the other person in a union to show you all the parts of yourself that you've disowned, you then become, then the relationship can evolve to become a divine union in the aspect of how you guys can hold each other and see each other and

celebrate each other. And then in that, in the aspect of a king and queen and king, seeing, each other, then there's just this exponential spiral upward that you both go on and that trajectory can just help you guys evolve so much. And so I'm sure there's a lot here you could speak to as well, experiencing, you know, divine union. Yeah, I've been, yeah, I've been deep in divine union relationship for a hot minute now. So, yeah, I have a lot to share on that. One thing I want to say to build off of the intimacy and tie that into the divine union is that the intimacy with self and the willingness to be with ourself and be with our feelings also breeds trust in a way that I think is unexpected. It breeds a sense of trust in ourself and honor and respect and integrity with

ourselves. But I think because when we're resisting feeling or judging feeling is why I say that if we actually go there, and this come from my own discovery, right? It's like as I've deepened in that intimacy and being with myself and, you know, like being the divine mom. father or the divine mother towards myself and opening myself to receive that even from others in my life in that intimacy what i didn't expect initially was oh that actually created a sense of trust which to me is also where the opposite happens is when we repress and suppress our feelings in that way um and essentially abandon ourselves then we actually erode our trust in ourselves right and the way this plays out in relationship, you know, I was thinking about this recently, about masculine

and feminine dynamics, you know, the field of trust and safety, you know, that often gets talked about and experienced as a masculine presence in a relationship. One of the areas of trust and deepening in trust and deepening in safety and deepening in our ability to even hold space for the feminine that I think is a little bit more misunderstood and less talked about or is that when we are able to penetrate our own hearts deeper in the way we're describing, it actually subconsciously deepens the level of trust in the relationship. You actually become a safer space. And so the feminine, or to say it in like him, her terms, will actually trust you more, or the level of trust that you exude and that you hold in your field is in direct proportion to how deeply you're willing

to penetrate your own heart and be with your own vulnerability and be with your own self. And that translates as more deeper trust. And one other thing there that I was thinking about recently in terms of like roots, like deep on the deep roots of trust that are like transcendent, transcendent trust comes from our connection to God inside of us. Right. And the willingness to stand in the fire of that. And I only say fire in the sense of like to be obedient to.

and have allegiance to spirit beyond the peanut gallery of the world or our own mind or even our own partner. That can be very scary as well to stand in that, to stand as a pillar in that, independent of our own self-image. That creates another type of trust. So following our intuition, right, being willing to follow our intuition, even if it doesn't make sense or if it's going to go counter to what whatever also is part of those roots. Like a man who is or a being who's obedient or willing to be obedient to God inside of him, independent of the world, independent of the righteousness, is going to exude and offer a level of stability that's also transcendent.

Because now what's happening is the flow of love, right, is less, it's more unimpeded, right? And so you're willing to be a space for all expressions of love, not just the ones that look nice and feel nice, that you look like you're a good person, but just to be a space for love to flow, period. So that's a little different, but a good segue into divine union and intimacy.

Yeah, what's happening in a relationship is that, here's the thing, like in heart and spirit, we're all connected in a transparent field of consciousness anyway, right? So this whole thing of like managing our thoughts and our feelings to try to not create pain in a relationship or to avoid pain, on some level when you look at that from an expanded view of consciousness, it's kind of silly. And I don't mean silly to not have empathy for the challenge of it,

but silly in the sense of like, we know. Like, we're connected. And so as these, you know, the intimacy and as we move into divine union in that intimacy with ourselves and are willing to be in the mirror of relationship in an intimate way and, and move through these uncomfortable moments and feelings that could feel like we're, we're dying. It's literally, it's just, it's taking these veils off of our consciousness, the perception of separation. And so, yeah, intimacy is hot right now. Intimacy is like communion. It's union. It's what is in meeting, being able to relate and connect and commune on these deeper levels of truth and the truth of like what's true in our hearts.

Yeah. So that was that was a lot, but it's all connected. There's a lot. There's a lot. There's a lot. to go in from that from that thank you for sharing all that all that I've resonated deeply with a lot of what you just shared I think relationships often become the catalyst for real for us to realize this space and magnitude of love that we have within ourselves and that you can have that perspective shift that you're actually not going in relationship to be dependent on another for a source of love but to realize the source of love that you are and then you can become a space of love love and that can hold whatever is coming up within the dynamics of the relationship, even if that means the relationship and the form that it has been to transition into something

that is not romantic. And being okay with the reality that anything can happen and change because everything ultimately is impermanent, that you can not resist or cling on to something needing to be a certain way, but you can just be present to whatever is, whatever feels true in the moment of the experience and the dynamics of the bond union and relationship. And ultimately, that is the biggest catalyst for more intimacy because you're not clinging on to needing it to be a certain way. Well, I think when we cling, we're on one level of desire

and not we've disconnected from the deeper desire, which is like the essence. So like with love, for example, we all love to be loved and, you know, seen for who we are. And so it's not like there's anything wrong. desiring to be loved and to be held in that way. But the deeper desire, even deeper at the core of the desire to be loved, is actually desire to be love, to be love. And if we can start there or anchor ourselves and put our, I guess, our attention more so in that being the core desire, then that's one of the things that releases attachment to this level of desire, which is the relative

desire of like, of course, I want to be in a relationship with someone who honors and respects me and loves me and, you know, and is in alignment in that sense. But I think that if we, if we disconnect from, if we're not aware of and we disconnect from, like, what I really want, what I'm being called towards in the mirror and the catalyst of relationship and all the challenges or whatever is to be loved, to be love, to be love, if that's the core desire. If we start there, I think that that energetically naturally releases the attachment, not the appreciation of being loved. There's nothing wrong with the appreciation, but the attachment to love coming from someone else is to go to the essence. It's one of the ways that I was able to kind of reconcile this whole attachment paradox from years ago.

And I was like, okay, you know, from like Buddhist teachings, it's like, you know, desire. a root of all of such, you know, attachment. But then if you're like trying to be detached and like you're now, you're attached to being detached, one of the ways I was able to reconcile that quandary is by realizing the essence of who I am and what it is that I desire on an essence level. You know, an example of a job. It's like you might really, really want this ideal job, right? It's not an ideal relationship.

It's an ideal job. But if you, and then you might get attached to that. And it's like, so then now you're going to create suffering if it goes away or if you don't get it. But if you realize that who are you wanting to be in that, that's the essence. And if you're a dope human that is able to attract a dope job, then you can't lose the dope human part because that's who you are. The manifestation is the job. I'm just explaining a kind of a psychological process of helping you detach by realizing that it's not the thing you want. It's what it represents.

And what it represents is in essence. It's a feeling. And that's in your being. And if you can focus more of your attention on that, then it can help you not only release the attachment to the form, but let the form evolve. You know, and that's, as you know, we both transitioned recently in relationship. That was really, really helpful to me in my last relationship. And, you know, my previous partner, Sahara, she had the same kind of outlook on it. And so it was one of the things that allowed our love, which is eternal, to transform.

And now it's expressing in a different form. you know instead of focusing on the form of the love and go the form's gone but the love's not gone right that's the essence totally yeah i think we're under the illusion often that form precedes essence it's that once we get something to look like a certain way then we'll experience joy you know whatever emotion we attach to that the essence of it right but really it's the other way around right once we experience the essence then we'll see the form that is in a mirror to that vibration And it's beautiful that, you know, you and Zahara were in that example. And same thing with Blue and I, where we had this understanding and we're able to take the space that was needed in the healing process of the separation.

But ultimately, you know, we're so solid and strong now in the love of our friendship. And the form has changed and transition. Right. But the essence is still there. Yeah. Yeah. That's beautiful, man. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. So good, man. We've been diving down the rabbit hole for a minute. It's been so good. Good, bro. What a very flowy conversation. Yeah. So good, man.

Is there anything in particular on your heart that you want to share that you haven't already in relation to divine union and to anything that we spoke to with flow? Yeah, let me know if there's anything else that's come up for you. I just, I feel it's really important right now to, there's been such an uprising of the feminine and evolution of the masculine happening that I think one of the things that's gotten a little bit lost in the sauce

is, and I kind of pointed to this earlier, is just the holding of the masculine heart from the masculine and from the feminine, right? It's almost like collectively we've pendulum-swinged from being wherever we've been careless, you know, to being careful, right? And careful when we're trying to be more careful,

like walking around at eggshells, it's like we're trying to find our way back to caring, trying to find our way back to love. And, you know, practically what that looks like is trying to be a good man. You know, I was thinking about writing about this recently, is that when we're trying to be a good man, one of the things that's happening there

that I think is an essential piece of, being able to be a good man, you know, to be an integrity, whatever a good man looks like, right? But is how we are holding the masculine heart in this space of like, like, no, you know, put the knowledge aside, put the objective, put the change that's trying to be made aside. And it's just like holding the masculine heart. That's been on my heart lately.

And one of the things I deeply appreciate about my relationship, you know, is my partner's ability to be with my heart and hold my heart. You know, I thankfully have learned how to hold my own heart. And it's really beautiful and helpful to have someone meet me in that. And that's just something that feels really important collectively for the masculine. And as we're shifting from the information age or being predominantly. anchored in information and knowledge, you know, and moving more into like the age of inspiration and intuition. So, yeah. Powerful. I think I resonate with that so much so in my own personal life and

developing the capacity to hold and be a space for whatever is coming up within myself first, but then also to, it's beautiful to meet that reflection in another woman in my case that also holds that from themselves. And then together that being able to hold each other in that space, like it just becomes a really big catalyst for self-realization on both ends. Yeah. Yeah. So thank you, man.

This conversation has been filled with so much wisdom, so many nuggets. To everybody that's been tuning in, please let us know in the description and the comments, what resonated with you the most, what moved the needle in terms of your actual experience of life. I'd be very curious to hear that. For O-R-N, where people want to find more of you, where can they reach out, where can they connect with you on socials

or anything that you want to share in terms of offerings or things that you've got going on, please let the peeps know. Yeah, I'm very active on Instagram at Oren-Harris, O-R-E-N-Harris. My website is Oren-Harris.com, and then I'm also on Facebook. So those are the three places to see what I'm up to, to be plugged into, you know, whatever it is that I'm sharing. And yeah, as far as offerings go, pretty stoked about Chelsea and I are launching a container called Holy Fuck.

Stoked about that. And I also launched a new community called The Limitless Circle that can be accessed through either my website and being on my email list or through my Instagram, through my Instagram, bio but the limitless circle is like my membership it's free uh community platform where i'm shifting a lot of my attention to in terms of sharing knowledge insights you know it's community so yeah the limitless circle is a really powerful cool place to come hang out with me and um you can find out about holy fuck on i'll let it be mysterious but you can find out about it on through my instagram myself or Chelsea's Instagram, Chelsea Huntsman.

Amazing. So good. Thank you for coming on, man. I really thoroughly enjoyed this conversation. I appreciate the depth in which we can go and let me know if there's any way I can support you in the future. I appreciate you coming on. Yeah, thanks, brother. I appreciate it. Yeah, of course. All right, to everybody that's been tuning

into this episode of the Know Thyself podcast, thank you for being on the same frequency of discovery and curiosity that I am so into. And coming on this journey with me means the world to me. I really appreciate seeing all of the engagement and sharing it the clips in the comments, seeing how this is actually firsthand impacting you in your life. It's been beautiful to meet some of you in person recently and actually to see the connection

because we often have this junk between the impact that we actually have and seeing it firsthand. So just thank you. I know that wherever you're at in the world, I feel you deeply. If you haven't already subscribed to the channel, please do. And until next time, be well. You know,