Know Thyself - E31 - Mike Majlak: It’s a Miracle I’m Alive

Episode Date: January 31, 2023

Mike Majlak went from being an opioid addict to a successful author, podcast host, and content creator. Today he shares his story of overcoming 10 years of addiction, having the courage to begin recovery, and making impact his redemption.  He opens up about his biggest regrets in life and explains why he wouldn't trade his past for anything. He also shares the struggles of balancing life as a content creator and using his platform for positivity. He debunks the common misconception that more money/fame = more happiness, explaining his current struggles with anxiety and mortality. Mike and André reminisce about their time together living at the Maverick house with Logan Paul, and the journey to making Impaulsive.    ___________ Timecodes: 0:00 Intro 3:57 How Far I’ve Come 7:46 Addiction & Rock Bottom 23:15 Recovery & Redemption 34:14 How it Shaped me 40:29 What I Regret Most 44:24 Life as a Content Creator 51:49 Creating Impact 1:02:51 Success & Stardom 1:11:25 Will Success Make You Happy? 1:17:03 Mindfulness and Mortality 1:23:15 The Maverick House 1:33:59 Impaulsive  2:01:09 Conclusion ___________ Mike Majlak:   Mike Majlak is an author, content creator, and co-host on the popular podcast, “Impaulsive,” with Logan Paul.    Mike Majlak was a seventeen-year-old from a loving, middle-class family in Milford, Connecticut, when he got caught up in the opioid epidemic that swept the nation. For close to a decade thereafter, his life was a wasteland of darkness and despair. While his peers were graduating from college, buying homes, getting married, having kids, and leading normal lives, Mike was snorting OxyContin, climbing out of cars at gunpoint, and burying his childhood friends. Unable to escape the noose of addiction, he eventually lost the trust and support of everyone who had ever loved him. Alone, with nothing but drugs to keep him company, darkness closed in, and the light inside him--the last flicker of hope--began to dim. His dreams, potential, and future were all being devoured by a relentless addiction too powerful to fight. Despair filled him as he realized he wasn't going to survive.   Somehow, he did... He not only survived, he thrived.   Now he's a social media personality with millions of followers, and an entrepreneur, marketer, podcaster, YouTuber, and author who hopes to use his voice to shine a light for those whose own lights have grown dim.     "The Night Shift" YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@MikeMajlakVlogs Impaulsive: https://www.youtube.com/@Impaulsive Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/heybigmike/ Mike's Book "The Fifth Vital": https://www.amazon.com/dp/B087L8DWZQ/ref=cm_sw_r_api_i_VZP4W87QW8JZQR0J8ZZ4_0   ___________   Know Thyself Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/knowthyself/ Website: https://www.knowthyself.one Clips Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJ4wglCWTJeWQC0exBalgKg   Listen to all episodes on Audio:  Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4FSiemtvZrWesGtO2MqTZ4?si=d389c8dee8fa4026 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/know-thyself/id1633725927     André Duqum Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andreduqum/   Meraki Media https://merakimedia.com https://www.instagram.com/merakimedia/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Addiction is a nasty thing. It's just not simple. And that's really the worst part about it. I went and I hit this jump full speed, overshot the landing, and I woke up about five minutes later with my foot right next to my head. I remember the nurse bringing me

this small yellow pill within a couple months of that I was a full-blown opiate addict at the age of 16. And I've lived a lot of life. I've seen the absolute lowest of the world and the absolute highest. In this setting of this $6 million house

being led by this, rocket ship, which was Logan Paul. It was a roller coaster. Not only does money and success not solve your problems. In fact, it generally leads you further away from those solutions. The story I've more so wanted to tell people since I've gotten clean has been that is not your only opportunity. I want to show people that you can flourish. If you have the chance to take risks in your life, like you better take them because the upside is massive. Hello, beautiful humans. Welcome back to the Know Theyself podcast for every single week. We get the honor and privilege to sit down with the beautiful mind and open heart, somebody that can teach us through the lessons that they've learned in

their life to help us know ourselves in the world at deeper and deeper levels. Today, I am really looking forward to this podcast is going to be a little bit of a different one. We have a bit of an interesting guest today. He is co-host of the Impulsive podcast, runs his own vlog channel called The Night Shift. He's got a best-selling book called The Fifth Vital. And this formal intro feels slightly weird, bro, because you're just my boy. I know. It's funny. I know. It's never know if people are going to do like a more like relaxed intro or if it's going to be like a proper one. Yeah.

But I feel like you have a format and that's what you like to do. And so you stick with it. I do. Yeah. And just so for the listeners that aren't familiar, I'm sure most that are tuning in probably already are familiar with you. But I just think that I'm excited to pull out a little bit of a different side of you for this podcast today because getting to know you over the years and like living with each other and

all the things, I've gotten to see a side that I don't think it's to be as expressed as much as maybe even you would like. For sure. And so there's just so much inspiration in the arc of the life that you've lived and the insight that's come from it. And I think that there's many different avenues in which we can dive into today that's going to be really supportive for whoever is listening to, you know, wherever they're on their path. Absolutely. I think that's like the hard part of it. It's like where do you go?

You know, I mean, like I even just, I try to prep for podcasts. I know you mentioned me earlier before we sat down. You're like, I don't think I've really seen you do a podcast this type of setting before. truthfully, I don't do external podcast very often. I mean, we're so busy with impulsive and I'm busy with my channel and books and new ventures and businesses that generally speaking, when I get asked to do shows, I sadly have to decline a lot of them. You're an old friend and someone that I look up to and value our friendship deeply and more so what you give to the world. And I see so much good in what you do and so much potential and impact. And so, and I love being a part of things that are, you know, just taking off because I like being there in the beginning and being part of it.

So I'm happy to be here. Thank you for having me. And early apologies maybe to the audience for if this feels a little different than it normally would. No, man. No apologies are needed. I think that first off, just thanks for being here. I'm really stoked that you're able to come and make this happen. And like I said, there's just so much insight from the arc of your life.

And like I said, there's many avenues in which. we can dive into from, like I said, we lived together for about two years in the Maverick House. I've gotten to also like more recently actually read or listen to your whole book, which is just mind-blowing to see, to hear more of the stories that even I didn't know about about like where you come from, man, because I think that you are the living embodiment and representation that no matter how hard life gets, if you don't give up, you can make whatever you want from your life. And it's been really beautiful to see the arc of from where you've been in the deep dark pits of hell and many of your experiences of life to now getting to like live the life that you want, live life by design. So I'm just proud of you and excited to dive in.

Yeah. And even more so like to hopefully continue to show people that it's always a work in progress. You know what I'm saying? And I think like it's very easy to look at a lot of people that are on social media. creating content and like you said, this embodiment of the comeback story and think that all a sudden things just get very sweet, you know? And they do in a lot of ways. And things do get better. And that's one of the main, you know, stories that I try to tell and impacts that I try to have on this world as much as possible is to tell people that keep going because things do get better

and they really do. But it's, you know, life is a puzzle. And even on the best of days, you're puzzled by it. And on the worst of days, you're puzzled by it. And so it's just, to say that I have anything figured out would be a would be a stretch yeah do you still wake up and like feel that the life that you're living now is like surreal compared to where you come from yeah you know one of the unfortunate things about being successful in this like hyper active society that we live in nowadays with social media and content creation and now now now and more more more is you generally don't get a chance to reflect very much on on the progress that you've made over an acute window

or even like a strategic window of time. And so when I actually, some of the times that I am able to really understand the surrealness of it is when I do take a second to step back and just look at that stock chart, if you will, of what has happened. And that's another thing that I encourage people to do a lot, a lot is I think in life, you know,

maybe it's too early for a lesson, but I think about this stuff all the time and I'm about to turn 38 on Friday and I have a lot of stuff to offer through what I've learned. A lot of times you get very tied up to a very temporary problem in your life and something pops up today. You have a pain or a struggle

or something that you're dealing with and it starts to represent everything to you and it overtakes your mind and it's all you can think about. And one of the things I always try to encourage people to do is step back and really look at the progress that you've made over a window of time. I mean, when I really take a giant leap back and look at my life over a, you know, a 10-year span or even a 20-year span, it's hard for me to not be grateful and to feel extremely blessed for where I am in life. Whether or not I botched a brand deal over the past week,

whether or not I, you know, messed up with a girl over the past week or had something that I thought could be of fruition in the future fall apart, sometimes you really need to look and step back and look at your life as a whole and say, wow, I'm proud of myself. And I think people are too hard on themselves a lot of time. And I think it's, I think it's important to really be proud of yourself for where you are. Yeah. I think so much of our suffering comes from our identification with thinking that the part is the whole. Like you have this myopic lens of, issue in your life and think that it's all reality. But you could zoom out on a macro scale. And like, you're just like this tiny little ant on this planet hurling through space thinking that your reality is like the ultimate reality that needs to be solved. And life is not a problem to be solved, but a reality to be experienced. And when we don't have that understanding, of course, our life is just going to be much more painful than it needs to be. So that's awesome, man. Like I feel like

your story of so much resiliency, now getting to this point where, you know, you're getting to see a lot of the fruits of the hard work. You know, and I've seen you over the years just go from this nose to the grindstone just like every day in and out for years and years making videos, grinding out the podcast. I'm excited to dive into all of that. But I do want to dive into your story a little bit because I know you've shared unimpulsive and obviously you've written your book, which some people have read and listened to, but most people don't understand to the magnitude of the place in which you come. From 10 years of addiction to hard drugs to experiencing times when your friend's family's got murdered to all of the suffering that comes with that whole lifestyle

from selling drugs and being in that whole world where you're just focused on survival day in and day out. The whole arc to now to where you are is just, it's mind-blowing to me, man. It's rare. It's rare. I mean, just the survival rate for, you know, an opiate addict, which, which, you know, sadly represents so many Americans right now because of the epidemic that we've had occurring in the country for the past 20 some odd years is so low. I mean, the, you know, sadly, sadly,

the number of people that truly beat, and you never truly beat it because you'll always be an addict and you'll always be in recovery, right? But like the percentage of people that truly beat opiate, especially a 10-year bout with opiate addiction is low. And so beyond just the survival and the ability to reach baseline and get back to living a life without drugs is a story in itself. But the story I've more so wanted to tell people since I've gotten clean has been, that is not your only opportunity. I don't want you to, there was always this feeling inside me that I didn't want to just get

clean and be able to rejoin the workforce because that was all I was going to be able to do. Like that's the thing a lot of rehabs and a lot of, you know, recovery programs try to school you on is one day you can be normal again. One day you can, you can get a nine to five. You can afford to pay rent and have a, you know, have this or have that. I want to show people that you can flourish. You can quite literally create anything you want for yourself in this current day and time, right? And so there really is two parts of the story.

There's this kind of horrific and tragic backstory that I live through, you know, starting in the early 2000s when I was, you know, had had some injuries and was introduced to a drug called Oxycontin on the streets of Connecticut when I was 16 years old in high school. And I originally I had broken my femur. I was a big skier when I was a kid. and I was at University of Vermont Hospital when they fixed my femur. I cracked it completely in half and skiing. And I remember I saw this massive jump and I was a daredevil.

I was just a kid, you know? And I was screaming down the hill and I normally in the action sports community when you want to go off a jump, you'll breeze by it one time first and you'll kind of scope it out and say, okay, this is what it looks like and then you'll hit it on the next runaround.

And I was a kid, you know, I was 16 years old, and I went and I hit this jump full speed, overshot the landing. and I woke up about five minutes later with my foot right next to my head. So I was looking at my foot right here. Bloods all around me. So I fractured my skull. This was one of my first injuries.

Fractured my skull, fractured my femur, and was admitted to the University of Vermont Hospital, where I was put into traction. Basically, they hang your foot from the ceiling so that they're able to extend the femur bone far enough to get it back in a place, so on and so forth. And I was in the hospital, and I was in a haze the whole time. I mean, I concussed and fractured my skull and everything. And I remember the nurse bringing me very vividly, this one moment, this small yellow pill.

And it said 40 on it. And this was the first time that I was ever introduced to an oxycon. And this company out of Connecticut, Purdue Pharma, which obviously you read about in the book, had created this wonder drug, less addictive wonder drug that was going to be the end all, cure all of pain. in America. And so I was given it in Vermont. And at the time, this was in 1999, it had just really started to kind of bleed into the marketplace.

And you fast forward maybe three years to 2002, 2003. And a friend of mine who had gotten it illegally offered to me in a car outside of school after school one day. And that I also remember very vividly. You know, I had, the first time I did it, I did in the car, I did 20 milligrams of it and I sniffed it. And I just remember this immense feeling of relaxation and escape from the beginning parts of anxiety and problems with self-worth and self-image that I'd already started to feel in my life for various reasons that I still honestly haven't addressed yet, but hope too soon. Right. And so I tried it.

And, you know, within a couple months that I was a full-blown opiate addict at the age of 16 and spent the rest of my time in high school addicted to drugs, along with the majority of my graduating class in Milford, Connecticut, town was completely ravaged by OxyCon. And as was a lot of towns in Pennsylvania, Connecticut, New York, Vermont, Maine. A lot of rural East Coast towns, as well as the entire country. I'm sure there's a tremendous amount of people watch this program who knows someone who has been addicted OxyConn or knows someone, right? And so the documentary or show Dopesick was with Michael Keaton was a massive kind of unveiling that a lot of people and got to see a mainstream version of it. But yeah, so, you know, was addicted to OxyContin, unfortunately, for a number of years

before they were pulled off the shelf and then spent a number of years addicted to street heroin afterwards as a replacement for that. And, and, you know, long story short, really got to see what it's like to, or to live in another world. You know, it's, it is very hard to describe the underbelly of this planet that a lot of people, fortunately, blessedly will never have to see. It is a whole, there is a whole other world of sadness, despair, addiction, mental illness that is kind of swept under the rug in America and a lot of countries.

And I have a very deep and intimate connection to that world and it will never leave me. And it is always just under the surface. And I got to experience it for a very long time. And it is inside of me. It is in my DNA. in a good way and a bad way. And so, yeah, I mean, there's so much to unpack there. You know, I mean, that was kind of, that's kind of just like a quick version of it.

But it, you know, it basically is the DNA of who I am as a person. Yeah. I mean, you're giving the spark notes of a 10-year journey of addiction, which is the battles, you're just fighting with yourself and this need to cope with this addictive urge that you have physiologically, but then also what you're suffering through consciously and subconsciously, psychologically, and what that's like. And so that whole period of life, do you have a moment that sticks out as like the darkest kind

of rock bottom moment? Yeah, the one that I usually have gone back to. And I mean, there's so many. There's so many. I mean, as you know, I mean, there's just a wealth of car crashes, stabbings, you know, assaults, you know, being on the end of assaults, broken bones. concussions, felony charges, which I just got a letter two days ago that I am officially pardoned of all felony charges.

It was one of the, for me, a very small moment for other people. But for me, it was kind of the last nail in the coffin almost of that part of my life to be able to now go out and say, hey, I've actually never been arrested before. And it took me, you know, 15 years since my last arrest to be able to beat that whole thing. and I can now say that I've never been arrested, which... Not that it matters because it's not your book. Like I'm not applying for any jobs or anything,

you know, but it's still, it feels good. It feels good. But, but I mean, in all of the traumas, I very close to the end of my addiction. And I was, to substance at least, I was, I got clean on June 23rd, 2010 and have luckily remained clean of narcotics. since then. And, you know, I'm happy to talk about California sobriety and my, you know,

movements in this direction or that, you know, direction or psilocybin or any of that kind of stuff. But I got clean of, you know, any narcotics on June 23rd, 2010. And just before there, well, the majority of my time was spent using opiates, I started a really bad habit with crack cocaine. And so had used cocaine a lot of times prior, but maybe eight or 10 months before I got clean, I got introduced to crack. And it was the worst thing ever. I mean, it truly is probably one of the greatest demons

that this planet has ever created. It's a horrible life-sucking substance that truly is able to just debilitate people and take life. It just takes life. That's simply the only way I can describe it. It has no meaningful use. It's not like opi. It's, it is a, it's a tragedy in a, in a substance form, you know.

And was, was introduced to it, quickly became an addict. And at the time, I had been, I had been charged with caring for my grandfather. And so that's another thing about substance abuse. The struggles of life that exist around the user don't stop. they also don't stop. So you continue to deal with everything else that a normal, you know, healthy person or member of society would deal with as well.

So people are aging. Grandparents are getting older, getting sick, and you have to also add that into your soup of things that you're dealing with. And at the time, my grandfather had gotten diagnosed with Parkinson's a number of years earlier, but it had become quite degenerative

as well as cancer. and my mother had always my mother is my hero. I love her so much. She's the most important person in my life. And she was just incredibly instrumental and taking care of my grandfather in his final days. But even she hit a point where she needed help. And she had no one to turn to.

My grandfather didn't have a tremendous amount of money to pay AIDS, so on and so forth. So she also, I think, so badly wanted to be able to instill in me a sense of some sort responsibility and give me something to do. And I promised her that I would be able to do it. And I think she really trusted me at the time. And so she had asked me to take care of my grandfather. And I started to live with him. And I did a good job for a long time and helped him do the things that he needed to do to stay alive. And it was another very painful part of

my life to see the end of human life like that in such a visceral and kind of tragic way, to be honest with you. Another thing that I haven't really dealt with, another trauma, right? But there was a point where I really started to slip into my addiction to crack. And there was a night where I was in the attic of his house, where I was staying at the time. And I was smoking crack by myself and just bugging out.

And I heard him downstairs. kind of screaming for help and asking, you know, please help me, help me, help me, help me. And I was too paranoid and, you know, and high to go help him. And that was a tremendous rock bottom for me to not be able to care for someone that I had been tasked and given the responsibility to care for. and it was just a really, really low feeling and low moment. And I'm sure, like, the viewer watching this can just imagine and have some sort of, maybe they can't.

Maybe they can't even, you know, feel what that feels like to drop the ball in such a major way and that feeling and how that rocked my worth, you know, not that it could really have been rocked anymore at that time. It was pretty bad. But that was kind of a moment for me. And it still wasn't enough. It still wasn't enough. It wasn't like the next day I went to rehab.

You know, I mean, it was, addiction is a nasty thing. It's a really, really nasty, disgusting thing. And substance abuse especially, all of the things in life that you think would point someone to get clean. You know, like you see these people, like, that truly don't understand addiction or substance abuse. and they're almost mad.

You have a kid at home. You have a son. You have a daughter. You have a, like, what's wrong with you? Just get it right already. Like, it frustrates them. And I get that. I can empathize with that way of thinking.

But, man, it is hard to describe to anyone who isn't a addict or to anyone who doesn't truly, truly, truly intimately know an addict what it's like to be at. the end, what it's like to have no hope and to have all of those lights that you've ever had as a child and all those dreams and goals in life to be extinguished and to have no one to turn to, you know, and no true, you know, direction or way to pull yourself out. And especially in America with the state of the mental health and substance abuse resources, it is as lonely as it gets. I mean, you, you, you are basically on your own, you know, in a tremendous amount of pain and sadness and despair. And so it's just not,

it's just not simple. And that's, and that's really the worst part about it is it's just not simple. Yeah. It's just not as easy as, um, just stop, which is like what everybody simplifies it to when they don't understand it. So, course. Yeah. Yeah. And then just to kind of close that loop, like that there was a shift when you, you know, submitted yourself to rehab and that was a pivotal point in you completely course correcting into moving in a different direction. What was the catalyst for that? And then I want to take it from there. Yeah.

So, um, basically I was on a suspended sentence as a felon in Connecticut. Um, I was on probation. and I one thing, you know, that I won't ever try to gloss over is I am a salesman. I just am. I'm a born marketer. I'm very, I'm very good at providing a case or a story and making it seen the way that I'm providing it to be. Someone called it manipulative.

You can call whatever you want, right? And I've gotten to a point where I truly try to use it for good as much as possible now, but that wasn't always the case. And so when I was a, when I was in on probation, I was given multiple different probation officers and I was always able to bullshit my way through it. And I've talked about this before where I think it was a really good reflection of the race problem in America, to be honest with you. I mean, I was given thousands of chances. I mean, for what I saw, you know, people of differing, you know, socioeconomic background. And of course, I wasn't raised in any rich way, probably lower middle class, but better off.

a lot of people in my shoes. The amount of chances I was given was mind-blowing. And, you know, whenever I would give a dirty urine, which could be enough to violate your probation and send you to jail or to rehab, there was always a story. Oh, listen, Bill, you know, my grandmother, she's real sick this week.

And listen, next week I'm going to, I'm going to do, and of course, the next week there would be a new story. And so the thing about probation is a lot of times their hands are kind of tied in terms of what they could do when you are admitted to a program. Now, the entire time I was an opiate addict, or a lot of the time I was on methadone. And so I was at this methadone clinic and I was going down there every day. And they were my caretaker. They were the people that were saying, okay, I mean, he's technically getting his methadone.

He's giving urine to us. He's going to group sessions. He's satisfying the requirements that he needs to be a part of this program. And they would return that info to probation. Probation would say, okay, like, what do you want to? to do like he's in a program so eventually you know right around the same time that this happened with my grandfather not too long after that uh i got admitted to a new probation officer by the name of ellen ferrari i'd say her name because i'm so blessed to have been ever given to her and um i the first time i saw

she said good to me you my name's ellen farrar i'm a little bit different than the probation officers you're you're used to here and i said yeah sure thing whatever right i said uh go down the hall peeing in the cup I'm not all peeing the cup. I go back, I give it to her. She calls me a few days later and she goes, hey, Mike. And I said, hey, Ellen, what's up? And she said,

so your urine results came back and they're positive for opiates, cocaine, benzodiazepines, and whatever else, right, marijuana, whatever else, right? That is not. No, they're not. That's not possible. You're going to retest me.

I'm going to come in there. And by the way, Ellen, I've been under a tremendous amount of stress lately. You know, my grandmother, she cuts me off. Mike, Ellen, let me, Mike, tomorrow you are going to turn yourself in to either a five-day detox program or you're going to come turn yourself into me and you will do five years in jail. Your choice. The choice was made, obviously.

So I went to a place called SCRC in Connecticut, did my five days, violent withdrawals, throwing up, got off methadone, got off everything. I went home and technically I had satisfied what I had to do. And I had a conversation with my mom. And my mom always gave me the benefit of the doubt to an extent. She always hoped that I would be telling the truth and that I would do what it would take to get better. And I had this conversation with my mom and I told her this time's different. Mom, like I got this figured out.

You know, and I was just at the house. And I was like, I'll be here. I'll be at the house. like in the same town that all my friends are running around or whatever. And I told my mom, I said, this is the time that I get it. And she had this like shutter where she like kind of looked away and looked back at me. And she was, I can tell it she was holding back tears. Like they were starting to fill her eyes.

She was like, I believe you, like that. And I knew she didn't. I knew deep down that she thought and really did think that I was never going to get out of this. And that she had, I mean, she's told me multiple times since. I mean, she had just been waiting for the call, like your son's overdose or he's been killed. And she spent the majority of, you know, nine years just awake all night, just waiting for a phone call like your son's dead because I lost a lot of friends. And so I said, you know what, this is going to be the one time where I do what's right. And I went to a 40-day rehab also in Connecticut.

And that was that was it. I was a one and done guy, which is also extremely rare. Yeah. Crazy, man. Because like these at the time, these like small decisions or can feel like big decisions also, they have such an important impact on the direction that we're going to go in life. You know, if you and at that point, I believe you didn't really have a choice. There was this part of you that needed to be expressed and explored that if you

continue to stay down the path that you were going down, that would. have continued to destroy you. Jesus Christ has this quote. George would like it. For sure. So if you, something like, if you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save you. If you do not bring forth what's within you, what you do not bring forth will destroy you. And you're at this point where if you did not bring forth the things that were within you is going to continue to destroy you and all those that loved you. Like seeing your mom and the painful disappointment of continually showing up in the way that you were doing. That's very, it's very harsh reality to deal with.

What does the word redemption mean to you? Everything. I mean, I've oftentimes thought of getting my only tattoo, and it would be that word. I mean, that's potentially the most important word in the world to me. I mean, I, for so many reasons. I mean, both personally, I hardly look at things personally

and how they make me feel anymore because I am so programmed into creating, for other people and whether it be, you know, bullshit creation, which I'm going to be completely honest, some of the stuff that it creates is just fun, entertaining content, or if it's impactful stuff. And so I like to imagine that my redemption story is simply a redemption story for other people, you know, and, and, you know, of course I'm proud of myself. Of course, I'm continuing to work to be the best person that I can be. But like, the Fifth Vital has sold almost 300,000 copies between Amazon and

Audible. It's one of the highest ranked books on Audible and Amazon. I mean, it's almost a five-star rating. It's got thousands and thousands ratings. It has quite literally made a massive dent and impact. And that is my redemption. I mean, all this other stuff is I love doing the podcast. I love

creating the night shift. I love everything that I'm blessed and given the opportunity to do. But that book, which took me you know, seven years to write on and off of just, you know, tear-drenched keyboards and just revisiting a lot of really difficult topics

that I didn't really want to fucking revisit because I had gotten away from them and finally started to breathe again and have to sit and wait in that so that I could provide a story that changed other people's lives. That's my redemption. Like, that's everything.

And honestly, like, it's, in a weird way, has, like, had me in this strange, place since then because the majority of my like, uh, complementaries and competitors in the, in the content space are all climbing this like second mountain now. They're like, oh my God,

I've made $20 million over the past five years. How am I going to make an impact? And by the way, that's, that's the best ones because I know a lot of them who also don't give a shit about that at all, which is crazy. They're very,

some of them are very young, so I understand it. But having already checked, both boxes is a strange feeling. And I'll continue to build on both. But it's almost like, dude, I've saved thousands of lives. Like, I've met these people.

I still continue to meet these people all the time. Like, I see them everywhere I go. And there's this moment where they see me and they try to keep it cool. Mike, I'm a huge fan. And it is five seconds before they are full breakdown tearing up. You, you get. gave me a reason to continue living.

You gave me a reason to stop using. You made me understand why my mom killed herself and made me feel okay about it. It made me feel at peace in my life because of what you wrote on a page. And like that is, to me, that is redemption. To me, that is at least a semblance of washing away the stain that was what I had once done.

and I don't feel like good deeds can outweigh bad. I don't know. I guess maybe I do to an extent I did a lot of really bad stuff in my life and I'm ashamed of it still. And I have come to terms with it. And I have a lot of regrets, you know, and it's something that I still struggle with, but I feel a little bit better about now. But I, but I guess like maybe you would describe it as like a, uh, uh, uh, uh, like meter almost like where I feel like because I have such a reach now compared to the microcosm that was my small town existence when I was doing the bad deeds that this story and

what I lived through has provided so much give back that I can say that I've done more good on this planet than I have bad and that's my that's like where I've net out on my redemption. Yeah. You know, which is like interesting. I hear that. I mean, yeah, it's certainly got to lighten the psychological load, not necessarily completely will mitigate the physiological trauma that is stored in your body. You're still being in survival mode, which we can dive into.

But how do you feel like that whole chapter of your life, now being in a completely different world in the world of Hollywood and content creation and all that stuff? How do you feel like that path, your history, has given you disadvantages and advantages on both sides. So the disadvantages, I'll start with the advantages. So the advantages are pretty clear. I, I, I, a wealth of life experience, especially dramatic downturns and the ability to survive them is unmatched, is unmatched. I would not like, you know how people always say like I wouldn't trade it for the world. I would not trade anything I've gone through to anyone for anything, for any peaceful life, for any peaceful upbringing or schooling wouldn't trade any of it. I quite literally am who I am because of that. Every reaction I

have to problems now, every empathy that I have for every person that I meet, everything that is within me is because of the pain and struggle that I've been through. And that is the main thing that I try to bestow upon people who are going through hardships in their life. That is a lesson that beats any book, that beats any documentary, any schooling you will get on TikTok. Living this life is the only thing that can instruct you how to further live this life, which is wild.

And so like all of the, like, I was talking about empathy the other day, which is a dramatically scarce resource on this planet. people have unfortunately gotten very mean. It wasn't always like that, but people are just social media and it's been this breed of of hate lately. Yeah, they want to find this bad guy that can project all their own issues to and demonize someone's entire being for one misstep.

Correct. And now they're, and now these, the cancelers or the people that, that pedestal this hate or this, this fuel, this fire are all becoming massive. It's a really scary and sad time, unfortunately. And quick, quick turnoff. Like, I've built my platform on solely positivity. I mean, even on my worst days, I've always tried to be extremely, extremely positive. And, you know, I personally revert a lot of times to a place of melancholy and say,

I'm not the happiest person, to be completely honest with you. But what I give will always be that. And so that's, so that's a side note. but this empathy problem, you know, this issue that we have as a society is not an issue that I share. I feel immensely for people. It is, it is automatic. And when I see anyone suffering, I suffer automatically. It is, it's not, it's, it's, it is so intense of a feeling for me that I could quite literally

cry just seeing someone else cry. And that is only a result of, and I'm not even saying that that's, always a good thing necessarily. It could be very painful, you know, but I, but I embrace it and I love it because it makes me understand the plate of other people and makes me want to try to help them. Always. And I've, and I've always, you know this and we don't have to get into specifics, but I am, I am shocked at people's non-desire to help others. It is, it shocks me. If you come to me with a problem as a friend, even as a stranger, I don't care what I'm doing.

It's over. What I'm doing is over. It's done. It is getting put aside. If I'm shooting a video, if I'm doing a brand deal, if you come to me and I see that pain in you, I don't give a shit what I'm doing anymore. And unfortunately, there's not enough people that act like that. Yeah. They often just haven't gone through the experience, which you're speaking to, of realizing and truly valuing what they should value most, which is human connection, the people that are in our lives.

those are the things that are most important to us. And for people that are earlier on their journey, a lot of times they just value their own survival, their own success, their own thriving. And maybe they have to. And they're, yeah, and they're often under times the illusion thinking that part of our thriving

isn't helping other people thrive. Like in my experience, they go hand in hand, you know, so continue. Yeah, no, for sure. I mean, you're 100% right. And so I think the empathy that I was able to garner

the life experience, the culturing, by the way, like, like that's, you know, that's my biggest thing. Like, I've always tried to bring, you know, this wealth of whether it's music, movie. I don't know. I guess technically you could get there without those life experiences, but there was just something about that time where I, where I sponged in and absorbed a lot of culture

and am able to kind of share that. Yeah. It feels like the branches will go high to the degree in which the roots go deep. And because you have so much depth and experience, now when you go into impulsive, you have all this experience that you can bring into the show. When you step into content creation or human relationships,

there's this level of relatability that is possible on the other side of 10 years of dark shit. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, for sure. Well, mostly dark. Yeah. But yeah, also, and I guess too,

at the end of the day, it also comes down to age. You know, I mean, I think there's a lot of people out there who, you know, see a, like I said, about to be 38 in two days. And I've lived a lot of life. You know, I've really have. I've seen both the absolute lowest of the world and the absolute highest.

And I mean, G5 Jets to Switzerland to hang out in Stad on New Year's. Like, I'm talking billionaire stuff. And honestly, like, not that cool, to be honest with you. It's really not. Like, I'd probably rather sit outside the McDonald's and have a conversation with the lady at the bus stop. It's just more interesting, dude. I'm going to be honest. Who you are when you're doing what you're doing is way more important than what you're actually doing.

For sure. And you meet a lot of uncool people in those places, like to say the least. And so there was a lot that I, that have become advantages that I took from it. And the story is a big one. Disadvantages. The main one is I'm, I'm late. I'm late, dude. You know what I'm saying?

and since you read the book or listened to it, you know that the one thing, the one regret that is unchangeable, the one thing that will haunt you in life, whether it's having been an addict or anything else, is the idea of wasting time. It is the most valuable resource on the planet. Everybody diamonds, you know, fuel, all these, like whatever. right, platinum.

The most valuable resource and most fleeting resource on the planet is time. We all have just so much time. And by the way, we don't know how much time we have. And so the idea of wasting 10 years, although it wasn't a waste, and maybe it was what gave me what I needed to tell a story that saved time for a lot of other people.

Yeah. So it's all in how you look at it, right? Totally. is troubling for my personal life. Time spent in addiction is time not developed. And so there's a lot of scientific study about the brain. What happens when you are an addict that has a daily need to have drugs? And your brain does not develop.

It does not develop emotionally, behaviorally, in any kind of ability to have relationship. And so what you end up with is a very weathered, very empathetic, you know, 27-year-old, even though I'm 37-year-old, you know, because of the time that I spent as an addict. And that's reflected in a lot of stuff that I do. And, you know, I have to check myself a lot of times and remind myself that I'm not in my 20s anymore because I want to be because I miss a lot of cool stuff. and a lot of time that a lot of people spend building friendships or romantic relationships or spending time with their family as they get older as they are and as everyone who's watching this family is getting older.

And that would be my biggest disadvantage is being a little bit having missed that window of time and missed what it presented, my little sister's graduation and from college. and, you know, my older sister and her and spending time with her and my mom and, you know, my grandmother who is, you know, now 93 and just got admitted to basically like what equates the hospice. And, and, you know, it's, it's, it's tricky. And it's, it's a regret that you, that you have to learn to live with, you know. Totally, man. That's a very real reality in your own personal human experience. I think that it's also like you spoke to you, having that perspective of, you know, most people's experience of life is kind of like slowly increasing

mindset, um, physically a lot of people down and go down, but financially, um, and like in their career and everything. And sometimes I do think that our setbacks are set ups for a comeback and that you kind of had a big dip earlier in life, but that was like a slingshot that flew like flew you exponentially to a different degree. And, you know, my good friend Peter Cron has this quote that what happened happened and couldn't have happened any other way. Because it was a it didn't. And, you know, it's, I totally hear you on like the kind of lost time and the suffering and the certain things that you just can't get back because they happened the way they did. And, you know, who's to say, if it went any different, you wouldn't be where you are today,

which I know you're really grateful for. I am. I mean, for the story especially, you know, for what I've been able to give back. And, you know, now, I don't know, maybe this is too much of a pivot. I'm not sure where you're planning to go. But now it's just a daily battle in how I continue to give back. You know, and I'm in just such a weird place, Andre. I mean, I can't imagine, like, you look at, you look at, you know, some of the stories and how weird those were from when I was a drug addict and was, you know, getting thrown out of cars at high speed and all of those things and you're like, dude, these stores are mind-blowing. Wait till the second book.

Wait till the stories of what I'm seeing now. Right. You know, which is this just mind fuck of debauchery, you know, outside of narcotics with, you know, the world's biggest porn stars and my time spent with them. And, you know, these, you know, these strange trips and this content world and this whole social media, you know, experience. And Logan Paul. And first time we've mentioned him on the podcast. It's like it's just a while. It's been a wild, wild ride where now having been in it for, oh my God, you know,

four or five years and having existed at the highest level of it, I'm starting to pull different levers and find out how can I elevate out of the place that I've been. And I've gotten quite comfortable. And I wrote down this, the kind of different thoughts that exist within a creator's mind at the highest level, right? I'm talking about someone who makes content for a living and makes millions of dollars making content, right? So maybe this is just me, but some of the struggles I have is this system of levers and pulleys that are all moving in different directions and how to merge them. What will get me views? I am a content creator.

I need to get views. I have to. That is how I live. More so, I am addicted to getting views. And I think that my worth is based on how many views I get. It is a condition. It is an addiction and a condition that every big content creator you talk to will tell you all about. It's sick.

It's a sickness. Yeah. What will make me money? I have a mortgage. I just bought a four million. million dollar house. I have a lot of bills outside of that. I'm a human. I have to survive. And by the way, I've also gotten accustomed to surviving in a pretty cool way. I've done a good job, but I'm still relatively humble. I don't have a supercar. I don't take helicopters everywhere,

but I have gotten accustomed to living a certain way. What will make an impact? I've already made an impact. But I have a story, a voice, a platform that I can continue to make an impact. with that truly makes a difference on the planet. So how do I do that? How do I continue to do that? Here's a crazy one. What will make me happy? I'm a human, bro.

I'm a human. I want to be happy. What content makes me happy? I love food. But if I only made food content or I only made impact content, would I get views? Would I make money? Maybe I'd be happy, right? what will convey my most real self?

What will allow me to be me so that the audience that is this massive internet society doesn't miscalculate who I am, which they have done a lot. And so that's five out of maybe 50 factors that a content creator has to take in consideration. This is by no means complaining. This is by no means discounting

the blessed nature of my life. what I get to do every single day and the opportunity that I've had. But these are the things I have to think about. And struggle with. I know it gets views. Porn stars. Sex gets views. Does that make me happy?

Maybe not. Does it make a bad impact? Maybe it does. On the simple side, right? Let's break this down for a second. And then if you have questions about that, let's talk about it. I can go for hours on any topic, as you know. porn.

Let's dive in for a second, okay? You know my relationship. Yes. Had a dated, even prior to dating, the biggest porn star in the world, number one, right? Lana Rhodes for the audience. Maybe some of the people know. I don't assume a lot of your audience doesn't.

Even before, that was already hanging out, playing in the space, doing the damn thing, right? I love those girls. I truly love those girls. I just spent a weekend with them in Vegas recently. They are some of the coolest girls on the planet. They're cultured. They have great musical taste.

They love to do cool things. It's like hanging out with my homies. And I love them. And by the way, it's not as cut and dry as they took the easy way out in life. They like to do this or they like to do that. A lot of them struggle the same struggles that I do with worth, with anxiety, with depression, with fear or self-image issues. And I love them even more because of that.

Now, do I think that the world should be consuming as much porn as it does? Absolutely not. I'm not a massive porn consumer. Do I have slip-ups? Absolutely, I do. But I don't consume a ton of adult content. So as a content creator,

I ask myself, why platform them? Why hang out with them? If you don't, if you don't look at them in a bad way, but you also don't want to promote that type of activity and that type of industry, right? So I got into the habit of having them in content and allowing them to show their true self.

Now I'm making an impact because I'm working with girls and allowing them to show that they're more than objects, more than meets the eye, and they're people like all of us because more than anything, I like the idea of not being judgmental on a person's one pursuit in life and pigeonholing them to that God,

I would hate if someone did that to me. I was a heroin addict for 10 years and a felon and somebody gave me another chance. And so the overarching story I'm trying to design right now in this conversation is the internet loves to simplify. and life is not simple.

It is extremely complex, extremely. And that is not something that you truly understand and learn until you get older, until you really mature and you realize that nothing is as clear cut as you think it is. Yep. Yeah, man, there's a lot to unpack here. There's so much here. Ultimately, you know. Where do you go, Andre?

Where do you go? I gave you a lot. So, listen, this is where I want to go. Because earlier you briefly mentioned that, you know, you overcame your addiction to, quote, unquote, substances at least. As you become successful and a lot of these external trappings become available to you, money, women, all the things. If you have not reconciled the trauma that's within, if you haven't healed, becoming successful externally can also become very dangerous because of what becomes available to you. And your addictions can transfer over to a plethora of different things that weren't, that you didn't have access to, previously. And they can become more subtle, which is in some way more dangerous because it's

less to have, it's harder to have awareness the inner workings of it. When you're doing heroin, you know the problem. It's heroin. Well, and more other people know the problem. Yes. So it's very visible to the public. Yo, this person has a drug problem. Yeah. But when you have a sex addiction or a eating addiction or a addiction to negative thought, which is probably my deep. addiction. It's not as simple to scope out. Yeah. I'm somebody that is a stickler for language and pay really attention to the way in which people describe their reality. Right. And so in some of the things that you were describing, right, it's like this kind of identity that you've created for yourself in many ways, right? Like these problems that you kind of face are also within the construct

that you've created for yourself, meaning the struggle of whether or not to have adult film stars in your content because of the different dynamics of it. You've created a cycle that then creates the feedback and like you've seen the results and views and money that come in from certain you know bringing certain individuals into your content and so you think that's like what will continue to work because it has in the past right you've created a prison of your own making in that regard right you're that's 100 percent absolutely so you know and I think that we can overcomplicate in thinking that the way that we've gotten success is the way that we can only get success but you know very well in the very various different ways in which you've gone out and

created things in life that you can, there's so many different ways to express yourself through podcasts, your content. And ultimately, I truly believe, and sometimes it takes, it takes being willing to take a step back to realign yourself to like your truest truth of what really matters most to you. And in that space of discovering what you love most, you'll become available to a level of abundance you didn't previously have access to because you weren't in alignment with like your true North Star. And of course, it takes awareness. you have a good amount of awareness from what you just read to me of like a lot of these different things that are you know are that you're struggling with extremely aware extremely aware it becomes it comes to this point where it's like am i going to live in my comfort zone that i created for myself for long enough which will eventually become my discomfort zone or do i just take the discomfort right now and start to explore different ways of expression that feel it more in alignment because you know like you like we talked about, it's subtle. Like, you could keep doing what you're doing for a while, keep making

money, keep doing the things that you want. And you know firsthand how much more fulfilling expressing yourself like we are on this podcast or in your book has been for you. Like that has been so. Yeah, and that's a format conversation, right? And, and I mean, it's like, once again, not to complicate things. It's never just as simple as subject matter. It's where you're doing it. Like I've gotten so comfortable creating YouTube content, which has a very specific, you know, algorithm and click, click rate and so on and so forth based on. substance that I haven't ventured out. We have impulsive, obviously.

I am, you know, I'll share it here, hoping that this is the year that I'm able to create my own podcast, which I love to talk. And that I would, impulsive is my show. I love that show so much.

Me and Logan started that show together. We've done 350 some odd episodes. We love it. We love doing it. I will never leave that show as long as we have it, right? But I can do another six shows. I love talking. Your audience is already.

sick of me, maybe. I don't know. You know what I'm saying? I love to talk about stuff. And generally speaking, there are people out there who will listen. There's a lot of people out there who are hungry for it to just pick the brains of people and have and hear an interesting dialogue and conversation. The reason I brought up that, that specific thing is because it's a very current struggle of mine. For sure. It is, it is a, it is this war that exists between, it almost goes back to the empathy thing at times. And by the way, I don't even think a lot of these people want it. I don't even think they want it.

I think there's a lot of people who are extremely comfortable in the space that they're in and they're there by their design. You know what I'm saying? But as I said, I hate the idea of people being, pigeonholed and misunderstood. And I have had the pleasure of getting to know plutonically a lot of these girls. And I feel very bad that whether it's a mistake that they made in the past or a mistake they currently continue to make or just a heartfelt decision that they've had to be in that space,

that they're written off as people. And so, and so, you know, honestly, I don't, um, I, I, I don't know what the struggle is. I think because, once again, it is a very complicated issue. Because I do not support the industry, especially in the way that it currently is. It's a very nasty place. Nor do I want people to become addicted to that type of activity. But I do love the idea of showing these men and women that there's other outlets for them.

They're cool. They're very cool people. And generally speaking, when I have them on my show, the comments will end up being, I don't want to watch this girl do what she does anymore because I know her now. Right. And so technically, in my eyes, like a lot of times it's doing what I feel it's doing. Totally. And they end up going, I mean, dude, I dated Lana for a year. She started a podcast.

Yeah. She was, I don't know if I've ever said this before, but she had a contract to go back into adult. When we first started talking, she had a contract for. from browsers to start again on the table. And I said, I don't think you need to do this. I don't think you need to do this. You're a cool girl. Look at what the comments are saying about you on the videos.

They're not saying like, oh, wow, I've discovered this new girl. Let me go find her online. They're like, yo, this girl's really cool. And it allowed her to get to a point from a self-esteem standpoint that she was able to start a podcast. And that became what she did. Now she's just a content creator. And so, sorry if I'm drawing on this topic for too long. It was a current thinking that I had on the drive over here today.

And I believe it's exemplary of the idea that nothing is clear cut. It is everything is just so complicated. And the one thing that's always really stressed me out about being part of this industry, and maybe it even happens as a result of this episode, I hate being misunderstood. And as someone that does talk a lot, I can create a lot of paradoxical situations for myself, unfortunately. It's part of also just part of the. being in the game. Yeah.

Part of it. Yeah. Yeah, man. Again, I think as we grow on our journey, what we view as success shifts, and, like, you spoke to addictions just can just transfer over from a more visceral gross reality of the drug addiction, right, to the more subtle ones. Dr. Gabramate, we're having on the show soon, which I'm really excited about. He says, don't ask why the addiction, ask why the pain.

And until we reconcile what that pain is, it's going, the addictions are going, to manifest in some external source of whatever it is. And so I don't think it's to demonize whatever the behavior is. I think it's to just, it's not all, it's not just what we do. It's who we are while we do it. And I see this arc of you now. And, you know, I feel, I feel like you have so much to continue to offer to the world that you're going to. And I'm excited for what that manifests as, whether it's a podcast or switching up formats or whatever that is and how you explore it. But you're coming to this place of awareness where your external reality, is reflecting back to you that you don't need to be in the survival energy of just doing what works,

but then you have this platform to do what truly matters to you most. And then you can change what you view as success from just more money, more views to impact, to internal fulfillment, to being able to cultivate presence, you know, and these things that, you know, are really, they really matter the most to us in terms of our experience of life. Right, right. It's, it's, it is tricky too because I, Like I said earlier, I do exist in this strange crossover between entertainment and impact. And I'm going to be honest, like there are a lot of times where I just like making zany fun stuff too. And it's by no means as important as what I also do on the impact side. But there's a lot of times where the feedback to me is, yo, like I escaped my panic attacks for 15 minutes because of your entertainment.

entertaining content. I don't think it's even necessary to put a hierarchy of one's more important together. We're here to express the multidimensionality of who we are. And part of who you are is just making people laugh and having that charismatic expression of your true nature that allows people to laugh. I think it's not to say one's better than the other. Just to find a holistic expression of them is like what we're all after here. But you're doing a great job and your own great path with it, man. Thank you.

I appreciate that. And I try to always like even in like the most ridiculous. content that I put out, the one thing I do try to do is have a through line of impact. So like if I travel to another country and do a burger review and jump out of a plane and have all these, you know, wild girls or whatever in the content, I generally try to have a moment of, you know, reflection in the episode where I say like, yo, like, I'm very grateful to be where I am right now. I talk a lot about my time that I spend in the wall. which, as you know, is like a major thing for me.

And I talk about how it's important for people to find safe places of their own that make them feel their nerves relax and their anxiety relaxed. And so, like, I do try to always deliver a little bit of impact, but there is a lot of time where I just like to mess around. This is probably one of the only times is you're not seeing that side for me, which is interesting. So more than happy to do some joker. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, definitely light it up. It's a heavy one. But that, I mean, that's what you wanted, right? Yeah, I just think that there is, there's a lot of the side that I like to pull out of people and I think is really important. I guess kind of getting on a little bit of a lighter note, one part of your journey that I've been able to see. You know, sometimes when life gives you lemons, you can make lemonade.

But I've seen you over and over again when life gives you lemons build a lemonade empire or factory. You know, it's like I think so much of your success has come from your ability to claim who you are before you even believe you are that person. Yeah, yeah. You know, from even early days with Sean with Lovesack to dog, you know, dog walking to wedding photography to getting an opportunity to work with Logan. I just think that for people that want to create a life for success for themselves externally, that's a really big takeaway that I'd love for you to dive into a little bit because it's not just fake it until you make it. But it is kind of seeing who do you want to become.

And then there's a point where you have to actually claim that you are that person, even before you're quote unquote ready for it because you're never going to be ready for it. Never. But then the opportunity kind of life presents itself and you meet life half away and becoming who you are and life kind of gives you those opportunities. And I've seen you actively step into those moments before you were quote unquote ready for it. And content and podcasting and working with Logan and the whole team to writing the book to like all these different things. So how important for you has on the path of self actualization been claiming who you are before you even think you're that person? It's so scary, dude. It's so scary.

And it's never not scary. You know, like I feel like there's this like weird like belief that people just like jump into shit because they're because they're more confident than you like or because like they're better than you in some way. Anytime I do something new, as you can tell by my sweating, you know what I'm saying or panic attacks or whatever. I'm frightened, bro. Like I was frightened the first time I got on a stage and gave us a seminar. I was frightened the first time I got all those dogs at dog camp. I was like life fear is not absent. from people's lives because they, because they, you see them doing stuff.

Yeah. They're simply overcoming that fear. That's what that is. And, you know, luckily for me, as I talked about earlier about missing time, not luckily, but like, because of my non-attachment to having to take care of a family. And I've been, I've been, in my career, blessed with my individual, my, kind of my solo endeavors, because I have been by myself so much and that's a blessing and a curse right at the same time.

There's something to be said about taking chances when you are still an unknown. It's just so much, I don't know, there's something so much easier for some reason about taking those risks when no one knew who I was because, you know, it's like the bigger they are, like the harder they fall type thing. It's like as you start to create a name for yourself and you start to create an aura and a personality and a brand,

those deviations from it become harder to sell. You know what I'm saying? When you're just a malleable piece of clay and you've not yet created a name for yourself, which is what I was, it was much easier. Now when somebody says to me, yo, Mike, I really think that you are funny enough to do stand up. Like, please do a routine and get on stage. I'm like, I'm not fucking doing that, dude. I'm scared out of my mind.

I can't do that. I'm not, I'm not a comedian. And so, oddly, everything that you're prescribing to the audience of what I always have been, I'm really not anymore, which is, which sucks. Because there's a level of that childlike explorer that you need to hold on to, bro. It is so important to continuing to evolve and and and and a lot of mind came from discomfort. A lot of mine came from being against the wall and that feeling of like, yo, like I got to do something. I'm not making money. I'm not becoming anything in my life. I got to do something.

Comfort is one of the worst things you can ever feel in this life. You think you always want it. I've been comfortable for three years now and I can stay here. That sucks. That's scary. It's bad. That should scare you. The idea of having things stay the way they are, as good as they are, should scare you. That's not something you should strive for unless you are at your, unless you are the happiest you could ever be, the most fulfilled you could ever be, and the most purposeful and impactful you could ever be.

That should not be your goal. Damn, I wish I could just stay right here. You know what I'm saying? Like you would think that's something I would say where I am, but I don't want to. I don't want to do that. But it's become quite hard for me to envision. It's been harder for me to make those pivots now. And so I guess my advice or how I talk about it is like if you have the chance to take risks in your life, like you better take them.

Because the upside is massive. And the story I always tell is when I first got clean and, you know, when I first got clean and, And in the program, I met this woman and she was starting a new website with AOL. And I met her in AA and we just were having conversations because I love talking to people. That's another thing I recommend to everyone. Just talk to everyone. Talk to everybody and smile a lot, like as much as possible because that's how you break ice. That's how you break walls down is by smiling at people, letting them know that you're happy and you're upbeat and your vibes are good and you're open.

to that conversation, right? So I love talking to people. And I started talking to this woman, and she told me about her new endeavor. And she was like, do you have any experience? And I was like, oh, yeah, I do social media. And like you said, majorly faked until I made it, right? And I love writing and all this stuff.

And I had no experience. And she was like, well, why don't you come do this? And she gave me an opportunity, which is another thing I believe in dramatically is giving people opportunities. So I started working for AOL and building this like hyper local news site and going business to business and taking pictures and writing stories. And one day I was sharpening my photography skills at like the duck pond or something like that or the beach. And there was there was, you know, I was taking pictures of this and that. And somebody said, oh, you're a photographer.

You know, I have a wedding coming up. Like can you, can you, would you be able to do a wedding photography and like, you know, what would you rate be? And I was like, oh yeah, I am a wedding photographer. I love shooting weddings. That's one of my favorite things to do. And, you know, my rate, what's your budget? You know, like just made it up as I go. So I did this wedding.

It was like $750. And with that money, I bought a DGI, DJI drone, one of the first phantom drones, right? And I started flying this thing around. And someone came up to me while I was flying the thing around and said, yo, that thing's awesome. Like, would you ever fly it over a wedding? And I said, it's funny, you say that, I'm one of the greatest wedding aerial cinematographers. And I became one of the first people to ever fly a drone around a wedding.

And so, yeah, there is a certain semblance of faking it until you make it that you have to kind of exhibit. You know, and that led to everything that I have. And we're back, guys. Room got a little warm there for a second. I also went to the bathroom, been drinking a lot of water lately, and I would advise you to do the same. Also, that was a good time for an ad break. Today's video is sponsored by... Do we have sponsors yet?

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Love that. So good, man. I mean, what you're just sharing about that journey of claiming who you are before you are that person, I think it's so valuable for the listeners. For anybody who wants to self-actualize, which we all do in a specific area,

part of it is just moving that direction and saying yes and saying yes and saying yes. That's a big one for sure. Yeah, for sure, man. Coming to this point, I just find it very fascinating because I have been fortunate, as you have, to meet a lot of very successful individuals externally in terms of, like, you know, the private jets, the billionaires, and it never, you know, it always baffles me to the degree in which there's still so much internal suffering and, like, neurotic behavior all the way up the ladder. And I think that, like, we spoke to, unless we.

reconcile the things that are deep within us, those feelings and that addictive pattern to negative thoughts and like self-doubt and unworthiness can continue to be a theme. So is there anything else that you want to touch on to the reality that those things carry with you no matter how successful externally you get? And like maybe even your own personal journey of, I think it's valuable what you said that even if you feel it, like you still do it anyways, whether you're going to go on MTV and do the show and you start having a panic attack, but you still show up and say yes to it, even though, you know, there's still these things going on, but they don't just go away once you become successful.

Absolutely not. They become revealed even to a bigger degree. 100%. I mean, for certain people, they're amplified or made exponentially worse. I mean, I, I, we haven't really talked about it at all today. But, you know, I've always dealt with a lot of anxiety in my life. It's a major thing for me. And it kind of flares up at just like strange moments.

And I've had anxiety attention. panic attacks, and a lot of it is from subconscious issues and things that I haven't sorted out. Some of it is by way of what I've done to my brain as a result of drug use, I'm sure. But it's something that I continue to deal with. And honestly, if anything, success and, you know, fame, if you want to call it that, or pseudo fame makes it harder because... I've found even less time now to work on those things. And I remember reading this article a while back about the happiness quotient for revenue for a person.

And there's actually like a scientifically studied like sweet spot for revenue for income. And it differs by state. But in Connecticut, I think at the time when the article was written, it was like $97,000 or something like that. As you creep below that sweet spot, you don't have enough money to take care of yourself and a family, nor do you have enough money to get the resources that you need for happiness, whether it be insurance or a car or whatever things are that you need. and as you move drastically below that, it gets worse and worse. And as you move above it, that you sacrifice time

to facilitate earning this additional income. And as you move further and further away from it, that you continue to move further away from happiness in that direction. And so of course there's outliers. Of course, there's people on, you know, the polls that break the system. but for the most part, the billionaires of this world spend their entire lives building brands

and working for those brands. They become slaves to money, to business, and you see as a result of that, their marriages fail, their kids do not get the time that they need with their parents. They do not take care of their mental health. They do not take care of their spiritual self. and I would say that that's kind of how it's been for me. You know, I think, you know, like when I was earning, you know, $60,000 a year or whatever it was, I had much more time to say, okay, 5 o'clock, see ya, going home now, or, you know, like, sorry, guys,

can't come into work today, got to go to my therapist. and now, especially in social media and creator and always on content, there's none of that time. You know, there's just, I, and so this year in 2023 is the first year that, because I've been aware of it for years, but this is the first year where I'm not taking no for an answer anymore. Unacceptable. This is the year where I'm saying, fuck that. There has to be time. And I'm not the first, like, creator to say this.

Right. Like, this is a very known thing. You do your first, you pay your dues, you do your three or four years, you burn out, you make a mistake or whatever. You know, we've seen this a million times with a million creators. You realize, yo, this is not sustainable. And I need to find out a way to take care of myself at the same time. And so not only does success not, not only does money and success not solve your problems. in fact, it generally leads you further away from those solutions,

which is, in the words of a popular rapper, Biggie Smalls, no money, no problems. And it's true, it really is. And I say that in a very currently privileged spot to be able to say it, because I remember what it's like to, I can say just about anything because I've lived both sides. So I remember what it's like to be poor. And it sucks, but it does have its simplicity as well, if that makes it. sense. Totally. Yeah, man, I think ultimately true change doesn't come until your shoulds become

must. I should get sober. I should get sober. No, I must get sober. Otherwise, I'm going to prison for five years. That's the moment you change. I should do therapy. I should work on myself. I should heal inside. Doesn't, doesn't matter until I must do it. Then it kicks into gear and you can actually change the body remembers. Like if your body remembers being in survival mode, it will carry that through until the end of your life if you let it. So I'm happy to see that now this year you're taking live by the reins, you're doing the 75 day thing where you're working out every day.

You're drinking a gallon of water or you're doing therapy or maybe starting to. Meditation. Meditation. Started meditating. Yeah. On apps, Headspace.

Great. Which has been cool. I've tried it in the past. You know, we've always had this like really joking like back and forth on anything like mindful or spiritual. because you always represented like the like the farthest in the other direction. And I came from like the East Coast and like just rolled in here like a like a psychopath. Like just not understanding like any of it or really like truly like at the beginning really wanting to.

And I remember I came here to the house like maybe a couple weeks ago. I told you I was like dude, you're right about everything. Bro. Like like you know meditation works and you know cold plunges. all the stuff that you were talking about, like eat your grains, like all this like stuff that you were telling me about when I first got here. And I was just like, no, fuck that. I don't want a cheeseburger.

And like, I want this. I want that. And then I, and now I'm doing a lot of those things. And I've realized that like cold plunging is great for like returning to homeostasis and like getting your brain to like, you know, relax itself and your body temperature to drop. And you know, like your body to be able to recover after workouts or whatever. Meditation is great for a lot of similar reasons. Like.

and helps with anxiety and stressors and nerves. And so, yeah, I'm starting to take some of the right steps in the right direction. But I am very aware, as you said, and always have been a very aware person that I have a lot of work to do. You know, and I know we all do, but I get very, like, lost sometimes in my mind. You know, I speak from a place of authority on a lot of topics, but I am a child in a lot of ways. And it's not, I don't know, I, well, I've started to tackle some of the surface issues with the anxiety stuff and like identified problem, you know, pain points and gotten rid of them and set boundaries for myself, which is very big for anxiety suffers. there's a lot of there's a lot of me that's still very like lost dude you know what I'm saying and and it sucks bro it really does suck dude it's it's uh I've been I've been having a

lot of struggles lately with with just mortality you know and it's something that as kids we we don't think about and you know you spend your teens and your 20s with the assumption that you're going to live forever and nothing's ever going to happen to you and your parents are still young and, you know, everybody's going to be here forever. And as you get older, you know, it starts to creep into your mind that like, that's not the case and that your time here is fleeting. And you start to watch, you know, your sisters and brothers have kids and you start to you know, say goodbye to your grandparents and you start to watch your parents get older.

And you have to come to terms with that. You know, you have to come to terms with the idea that that this is not forever, you know, and it's the ultimate human condition, if you will, is, you know, how do I deal with that? Like, how do I deal with that? Right? And by the way, like, that paralyzes some people. Like, some people are paralyzed by that. And for me, it's more of a subconscious thing.

And it's something I struggle with a little bit more subconsciously. And my big thing is I like to bury stuff. I like to avoid. I'm big on avoiding. It's a huge thing for me. And it's been good and bad, you know, because it allows me to pivot and to just do shit I want to do. Yeah. You know, and just like, I like to say fuck it.

That's like my favorite thing. You know that. You fuck it, dude. Like who gives a fuck? That's my favorite thing to say. And I take a lot of power from that. And I think it is an important thing to be able to say about a lot of stuff, but not everything. Yeah.

Yeah, man. I think I have no doubt that you're on just like a beautiful path of, yes, you're about to be 30A. And like, bro, honestly, if you zoom out, if you have. perspective, like, you have time, bro. Oh, yeah. I think especially in the content creator space and a lot of the shit that the guys give you, it would be like being the old guy. Like, man, you are set up so beautifully to now take the space that you need to like do

the things that matter the most to you and to like heal and to find your center. And you made it this far from where you were, which was a very, very dark space where you were to the degree that you were lost then is not even comparable to where you are not. No, of course not. So what I'm saying is that you still have that on the flip side to look forward to. And I have no doubt that you're going to do that. And that it's good to hear that you're taking some of that space to find a little bit more stillness and to find the resources that can support you with that connection to self. And so I see that for you, man.

And obviously here to support any way that I can. I think it's so interesting in our time of the Maverick House living together those times. There's almost like that. There's that meme of like the monk and the rock star being best friends. I don't know if you see that. I totally feel like I feel like that to a big degree because even though most people would perceive us in like the lives that we live is kind of drastically polar opposites. There's a lot of just like the inner qualities of having a good time of being a rebel of yeah, laughing our asses off. But then also creating content that is super impactful.

And so man, we've like we've lived a lot of life and the memories that we've made from documentaries documentaries that we filmed to, you know, me filming the first to producing the first 200 episodes of impulsives. in that whole journey to like, I don't know, I just want to reflect a little bit on the time being at the Mavercouse, man, because that is something where we don't realize the chapter of life we're in until we're out of it. And that chapter of life was very unique and very fascinating. And we're on both beautiful chapters now that are equally or more as exciting. But that period of time was fun, man. We were in a very interesting, like, upgraded fraternity in Russell Brand's words.

He said as like a, 100% right. Yeah, an evolve fraternity, essentially of young kids having access to all the fame and money and possibilities. And I just think that we learn so much about ourselves and what we want to create in that in that time frame. So when you reflect back on that time, what do you make of it? You know, it's the way that Russell explained it was was pretty much right. I mean, you, you, you, by way of Logan's curiosity and. willingness to shed these barriers that most anybody would set up for who they live with. I mean, or surround themselves with.

Logan has always perplexed me in his pursuit of who he surrounds himself with and who he asks questions to and who he takes advice from. me and him come from very different schools. He, I was always taught and not only taught, but just birthed to believe that you choose or bestowed generals in your life, who you then go to for your issues. And that could be your best friend,

it could be your parents, it could be your one or two business partners, but when you have an issue of any kind, you are calling upon your generals for advice. Logan is from a very new school of thinking, which is basically like a crowd sourcing of information, of business advice, legal advice. Like he just kind of takes what he can get from anybody.

Not from anybody, but from, yeah, you know what, from anybody. So I think that that, and I'm not saying either one is right or wrong. But maybe on the legal side, yes. But on a lot of other stuff, yes, there is a lot that can be garnered from an average any day person's thoughts about this or that. And as long as you're able to filter it, you can probably get good feedback. But that kind of bled into how he structured the house.

And so what we ended up with was this kind of mismash of a bunch of very strange characters, me being the strangest, of course. But in this setting of this, you know, $6 million house in Hollywood, being led by this rocket ship that was, you know, rocket ship or exploded rocket ship, depending on which time period you're talking about, which was Logan Paul. And, you know, and all the dramas that went along with it. I mean, we clearly, you know, filmed a ton of content in that house, but if there had ever been a documentary or, you know, a follow cam of any kind,

I mean, the stories from that house are insane. I've got some of the most insane tales and tribulations of, of, you know, sexual raucousness and just raunchiness and just every personnel, interpersonnel issue. And, I mean, it was a roller coaster. And, you know, I mean, core takeaway, I guess, like, it really was one of the biggest lessons, I guess, that I continued to learn in that house was

that is so important for anybody to learn in their life if they want to be successful, is that every single person requires a different approach in how you talk to them, voice criticism, partner with them. Everybody is so drastically different in what they like. And so anyone who's ever trying to preach to you this one step, yeah, one size fits all or one step process to engaging other humans is that is a massive. mistake. I mean, one of the biggest things about winning in this world is understanding your

your audience and understanding your people in the room and understanding your partners and what they want. And there's a piece of that that's empathy for sure. Like, oh, wow, this person needs a little bit of coddling. This person needs a little bit more positive reinforcement before critique comes. Yeah. And that's been a big thing also with Logan that we, you know, you were yours a lot, a lot of times working through with the houses. If you want somebody to, if you want to give feedback to somebody, you don't want to speak to them, how you want to speak to them, you want to speak to them how it's going to be effective to actually make real change. Correct. So there was like that. There was many different lessons throughout the whole process.

So many. I mean, dude, just the degree in the spectrum that was covered within all the experiences. And like you said, interpersonal dynamics and content created that happened was truly, wow. There was like Spencer, Evan, you, Logan and I, and were all living in close proximity. And like you said, $6 million house or $7 million house and Encino with a private chef and made and everything kind of taken care of for us and life really being a blank canvas in terms of what we want to created. So many beautiful memories. So many cool pieces of content.

So many fun things created from that time period. And it was like a fantasy factory in a way. You know, it was like our own little version of that. And all like the side characters. I mean, look at, I mean, David the German started there and now he's been an instrumental part of my, you know, success. and of my program, you know, manager Jeff and, and, and, you know, Chef Katie and Danny and who's now, you know, married or engaged to be married and just like, I mean,

what a, what a wild time and, and wild group of people. And I, and I learned a ton and luckily was able to, to teach a ton in that house. And I mean, brother, how saw some wild stuff. I mean, saw some explosive fights. I mean, we'll always remember the night in the garage, both two nights in the garage. One you were there for you with me and Logan. And we've since had a few times like that.

The difference now is we know that we'll always come back to each other. That one I didn't. That one was a little scary because you guys were like, you know. Yeah, it was got physical. Yeah, it was real bad. And hopefully I did as best as I could try to mediate the carnage that was coming out from both angles. But ultimately, like, I think the fire, the depth of connection that's forged in the fire of those moments really do. If you stand the test of time, you come out the other side, it makes it that much stronger.

Yeah, for sure. I mean, I would totally attribute our ability to make it through small things. And even that was a small, I mean, it just got so blown out of proportion, which a lot of things do. I think another big lesson. It's not from that house, but another big lesson that society needs to learn nowadays is just how to de-escalate. I mean, that is such a skill to have.

If you are able to get a fiery person, a person that is as headstrong, as wildly set in their beliefs, to de-escalate, take a step back, take a deep breath, and reassess the situation, and come back to a place where we're, where two parties are trying to meet a,

a beneficial endpoint. It just doesn't exist as much as it should. I mean, look at, look at our political system. Look at our social media system. Look at, you know, everything that exists in this world right now. And it is for one party to win and the other to lose. And, man, people always used to talk about, like, United, we stand, divided, we fall.

And it's, it's, it doesn't. doesn't seem to even be said in jest as much as it used to. I mean, we, I think we've so much come to the conclusion and the, uh, acceptedness that we are a divided democracy and a divided people that it's, it more so has just become like, how do we, how do you, how do you, how do you rep your side? And it's why we're making no progress. And so like my, my, my hope is that the, you know, and I don't believe, that it will, but that the nuclear families and that the platonic relationships and that the

romantic relationships don't follow suit. I mean, because it's all we see nowadays. It's all we see is this is this carnage and this hate and this division. Yeah. You know, and it's been forced down our throats by the media. It's been forced down our throats by everyone, you know, for us to hate our neighbors. And that saddens me so much. And I, and, and so, you know, those little scuffles that you get in your life sometimes can teach you the importance of letting an argument die. Unfortunately, views don't like view counts and algorithms don't like happy mediation. I'd love to be a part of the first social media network where united people flourish. Yeah.

Yeah, man, it's just tough. I think negativity is just so much louder and noisier than positivity. And especially when the mass majority of human consciousness is operating at one frequency, it's going to become magnetized to more of the same. And we're seeing more of the same at deeper and deeper and wider and wider scales continually right now. So it's wild. But here we are to try to be the change. I try to be as much as possible.

As much as possible. I want to talk a little bit about impulsive, man, because the whole arc of the journey from starting to now where you guys are at and George finding the third seat and the many iterations of the show. What do you think is like most uniquely, what's like not seen and very unique about the dynamic of the three of you and where you guys are at now? Because it is one of the most prominent podcaster shows that that really exist.

I know kind of started out joking saying it's the number one podcast in the world, but it's actually inching towards that spot, which is crazy to realize the amount of power. and especially, you know, as of recent, we don't have to get too nitty-gritty with, you know, certain things that I've been unfolding. But the dynamic of having you three, I think, is a very unique one.

Yeah, it's, uh, the, oh man. I mean, this is just such a, such a, a multi-directional question. It can go so many different ways. I mean, it's back to, back to the point that I made earlier about simplicity and complexness. the complexity of the show that we end up making look quite simple and seamless is so far from it.

I mean, it is, there are so many factors of reach, ego, knowledge, talent as a podcaster, depth of understanding, relationships with the guest, ability to build rapport, seating arrangements, ownership of program. I mean, the factors are so deep and not to make it dramatic, but it's just the fact of the matter. Like, it's just very true. And we do our best to sit down and have a lighthearted show. We've prided ourselves on being a platform of entertainment and education to an extent,

but mostly just a show that you can turn on, forget about your problems, maybe learn something, but probably laugh a lot. And more so than anything, feel like you're sitting in a room with three people that genuinely love each other and really do love each other and dramatically care for each other. And well that is always the case,

those other factors creep in. And, you know, we've had our share of disagreement. we've had our share of moments that I wish we would have handled differently. But the cool thing about it is the viewer gets to live through all that. And I think it is another place in life where we do somewhat get a little bit misunderstood, depending on which one of us you're talking about. Now, also, having three people on a podcast. We're very different.

Three, probably close to polar opposite people. Okay, I mean, you've got, I'll lay it out for you. And I'll be extremely honest, okay? You've got Logan Paul, the, you know, the global super celebrity. I'll use the word headstrong. extremely headstrong, kind of, kind of, you know, nose to the ground, driving home his beliefs. You know, and George had described it as bowling over people sometimes. And, you know, maybe you could say that's true.

Maybe not who knows, right? I mean, he's got a very open mind, but his strong will is what has gotten him to the point where he's at. Correct. So he described it recently as a having the potential for a fatal flaw, but it's more of a gift and a curse. Your ability to be extremely headstrong and driven and a fighter has made him a fighter and a social media celebrity, but also has gotten him into some mishaps, right? But at the end of the day, like the patriarch of the show, the creator, the platformer, so on and so forth, right? You've got a co-founder that sits to his left that started the show with him that is 10 years older than him

and just about anyone else who's ever on the show, you know, brings a depth of, of, you know, wisdom and life experience and culture, but sometimes cares a lot about shit that his co-hosts to his right doesn't give a fuck about.

And so there's one of the million factors between those two that exist. Yeah, I mean, dude, I may want to talk about Nas or Biggie or, you know, no country for old men, my favorite movie or Sicario, or, you know, my favorite cheeseburger

being shake shack over in and out and he may be done with that in 30 seconds. And so that's an issue that we've had to creatively work around. Like how do we talk about shit that we're all interested in, right? Now Q, slot number three, which has had a rotation.

You know, we've had multiple three slots. You sit this poor, unsuspecting victim across from these two fucking assholes who are both massive personalities have enough to talk about either one of them to run their own solo podcast without a word from anyone else. They're already trying to navigate the fact

that they both want to talk about something dramatically different. And now you sit a morally grounded, religious, which is a trend. Bucker in itself to the other two people. You know, I feel morally strong, but in a different way or whatever, have different feelings of morals or ethics or whatever.

You know, someone who is, who would trade their entire career right now if it meant one minute more time with his girlfriend or family, which is once again, potentially a polar opposite from the right and a semi-opposite from the guy on the left across the room and you have this, you know, situation where you're just, everyone's just trying to do their best, given the factors, given the, the differences, given the fight for airtime and mic time and fluidness of a podcast and lack of role. It's an open format podcast. I mean, if, if George wanted to, he could talk the whole show.

You know what I'm saying? But. Yeah, could he though? I mean, you guys... Correct. And so that once again, like, that's where it gets tricky. It's like you've got... You've got...

It almost becomes less a fault of anybody and just simply a result of the fact that you've got two massive personalities who have now invited a... The third spot is always... The three slot is very tough. I don't even know how to describe it. It's always been tough, though.

Even with Spencer, even with Mac for a period, even I hopped in there for a couple times. And then George is, I think, closest in alignment with, like, the entertainment comedy. He holds that pillar great. For sure. And that slot has always had kind of like a more introspective, contemplative, moral positioning that is like in the Venn diagram of you three together, it kind of makes that overlap a little bit harder. It does. But it also roots.

it has always rooted the show in reality. Yeah. Which has been very important in relatability because generally the third person is like has their feet on the ground a little bit more, whether it's George, whether it's Spencer, whoever it is, then Logan and then myself were sometimes potentially floating into more novel

or, you know, kind of like exploratory places, whether it be business or entertainment or whatever. And so, that slot is extremely important. Now, here's where things get insane. Drop a fourth person in and call that a guest now. Right. Move the three slot over to the left

and drop a world-renowned guest of some magnitude, probably large magnitude, A list of some kind, B-list, whatever, into the slot. Who, maybe they've got their back slightly turned to George, maybe the seating arrangement could be this, could be that. We could try this, we could try that. Regardless, the core issue at the end of the day is that when you put four people into a room

and you have them have a conversation that leader of show, creator, a celebrity extraordinaire has a direction for, slot two is thinking a completely different direction, three slot, which is now the four slot, is going to try to involve some sort of morality, which is great or religious factor. And there's the pressure that comes with needing to, in a time sensitive manner, deliver value that is so honest.

Now that's all him. You know that. And we have had that conversation a million times. Now, for multiple reasons, he started as a vlogger, or sorry, sorry, he started as a viner doing seven second videos. So that means,

yo, do a podcast seven seconds. Get your point across that. Move on. I have had to condition him out of that. I say, listen to me. We had Alex Jones on for like three hours when we did that show, right? Podcasts are podcasts.

This is a very different world. These people will listen to us talk as long as we want. Now, of course, you should temperature and read the room and if things get stale, move on. But I have tried to push him to dive deep. And now to his point,

and him being Logan, impulsive has been the only podcast or one of the best podcasts to buck the trend and do this spontaneous, erratic movement. And we think that we've captured a lot of social media audience as a result of that.

So Rogan very specific or very structurally dives extremely deep into each topic. We'll stay there for, he might stay on one topic for two and a half hours. Yeah, four. Four hours.

We have gone in a different direction. And so, you know, and to our benefit, it's been, it's been great. We get a lot of clipable moments. It's been very cool. And I think now we kind of, we kind of walk the line. I think we do dive deep occasionally and kind of sit there and relax in it. We've gotten a little bit more chill about staying on a topic for a long period of time. Long story short, it's just a very, it's a complex situation.

For sure. And, you know, we also do not shy away from having conversations that should be had off line. Like the religion thing that recently happened. Yeah. And more so than just it being the religion thing, like, you know, if you want to add some context, go for it. I mean. Yeah. I mean, the debate between Logan and George that did not go over well with the audience because of kind of Logan's energy in which he brought to the dialogue.

George definitely brought more of like a level-headed and there is a big learning for this in this for Logan so definitely definitely and he admitted to it. I mean he's open about it so this one I feel less you know kind of charged or worried about talking about because he admitted to his wrongs there. The thing is and I've talked to Logan

about this off-camera many times we both have he's very he's a very smart intellectually perceptive individual and he can see things very clearly, it becomes there's this level of openness that can go away a little bit when you're

in that dynamic especially, that does not go over well if you want to have one harmonious relationship with another person and having them felt seen and, you know, acknowledged. And then also that being received on a mass scale is a little bit difficult to. And I've seen Logan softened

over and over the years. Usually it's come as a byproduct of getting smacked in the face by a cosmic two by four of a tragedy or or a, you know, a girlfriend. There's been different moments where I've kind of seen him open and soften to the empathetic side that that is great. Ultimately, man, with all of this, I just, my wish and prayer for you guys is that you

continue to work as a team for whatever the problem is and not that it's like me versus you or Logan versus George, but there's a problem here or there's an opportunity for growth is a better way to look at it where you can see each other's strengths and weaknesses and continually work as a team to provide a better experience for the audience. and not as much like, you know, understanding very much so. The role that George is in the fourth seat is difficult, is difficult to navigate. So hard. I don't know.

I honestly don't. Especially when you're doing an hour and a half show where the main focus is the guest and it's like you and Logan have so much to deliver and value to provide in that context. And so does George. But it's a little bit difficult when you're positioned the furthest away. Yeah. You're like literally energetically the most removed from the conversation. but then also there is this pressure oftentimes from Logan where it's like you and you do want to have that value delivered in a short amount of time. Well, yes, that too.

And that is tricky. And by the way, that took me 120, 150 episodes to settle into it. I mean, what is George? Maybe 80 episodes and who knows, right? But like, the thing about it is I think he is starting to, I think he's starting to learn. that slot. You know what I'm saying? Dude, unfortunately, I think that that slot does not afford itself because of who he's opposite, the ability to truly, truly shine. Yeah. I just, I just, for sure. I agree. You know what I'm saying? It's just such a tough place. Now, now,

he's gotten really good at at quick-witted humor, which is amazing. He's gotten really great at when he does speak commanding the slot. And we both know, shut up. because George is saying something that matters now, which is great, and that's all you can really ask for. All you can really ask for is when I do speak that I will be heard. And it really is. It's just a lot of dynamic, a lot of factors involved. But we love George, the audience loves George.

And his moral grounding is just so impressive, dude. Like his ability to continue to prioritize family and prioritize the relationships that truly matter in life is second to none. And I look up to George a lot in that respect, like massively. And I love that dude. And so, you know, that it's been a tricky, you know, a few weeks for sure with all that's been going on. But, you know, one thing I know about us is we survive, you know, and we just keep cranking. Because we're all very strong. We're all strong.

Like we'll have blowouts. I mean, me and Logan just had a massive blowout two days ago. Massive, bro. Like pretty close to garage level. Wow. You know? And the next day we're like, all right,

this is how we're solving it. And now we're good again. You know? So it's you will butt heads with your partners. You will butt heads with your friends. And to be completely honest, I think if you don't do that, then you're not,

you're doing something wrong. Because to just live in this state of always on harmony, means someone is probably suppressing a viewpoint or an opinion. Yeah. That could have been very instrumental in making something better. Totally. And that friction is what reveals a lot of things. Like even when Logan and I kind of had our thing towards the end of my time at the Maverick House.

And like, you know, those are needed though. And I like learn so much from that time period because you just learn so much about human dynamics. Wanted to say something, timing, the way in which you say it. to not have long conversations over text, many different things. Yeah, but for sure. Yeah. I remember all that. Oh, yeah.

I wish I didn't. There's a lot of stuff, but you're right. I mean, it's all lessons. Like, quickly, the lesson from that show argument, and I said this to Logan on the show was a lot of debaters. Now, I guess technically if you're, if, are you debating someone or are you having a conversation? Right.

That should be a really important question that people. ask themselves when they go into a disagreement or into a place where two people have different thoughts on something, right? Is your intent to come out more intelligent and more understanding or to win? Right. Now, both of those have, there's a value in both. There are times when debate needs to be had. When you are so passionate about your viewpoint that your intent is to win the argument.

Then there are times, like a podcast, for example, where the intent should be learning and understanding the opposing viewpoint. So what I said to Logan on the show, which I feel very strongly about, is when you approach a disagreement as a debate, your intent is to destruct the opposing person's viewpoints, weaken their defense. and make them seem feeble in their explanation. Now, I think at the time, Logan had been going into any disagreement with that type of energy, and you saw this with the situation with George. It was very much more of an attacking, you know, style,

which is what he's learned through fighting and debating and that type of style. But if you're, if you're, if you're, what you're wanting to accomplish, if your goal is to learn as much about the opposing person as possible, you want to, in fact, do the opposite. You want the person sitting across from you, like I feel right now, to feel as comfortable as humanly possible in the setting,

in your body language, in how you speak to them, and how you agree or disagree with something they're saying, and the critique you give them. And if you do that right, they will feel so comfortable that they will produce the best possible outcome or argument from their side, then you will learn more. Yeah. Right.

And so, sure, if you were debating someone, light them on fire. You know what I'm saying? But that should be happening a lot less than you should just be saying someone, you'll get comfortable. Let's talk. Yeah. To claim it for what it is. You know,

I think it's just much a more powerful framework to desire to learn and not just to win. Because when it's me versus you, that is going to create so much resistance. And the desire just to win is coming from an immature place. For sure. You know, it just is what it is. Depending. Now, to Logan's point, keep boxes.

If the desire is, right. Right. That's a different context. But in conversation with a friend. Sure. You know, if the desire is just to be right, I mean, it's coming from a futile energy. It's not going to be much resolution. It's ego driven.

Yeah. It's ego driven. Which is going to serve its purpose for a certain amount of time. And then, you know, there can be resolution to that. Or. We're not. Death solution. Like, even worse than that.

You know, like, yes, like, generally speaking, like, ego only leads. Not always. But, like, I mean, as you know, better than I do even. Like, it's, it's that you're, one of your big goals in life should be destroying it as much as possible, you know? And living, living an egoless, selfless lifestyle as much as possible. Yeah. I would, I would make a slight amendment to that to say it be just because I don't. think we're here to get rid of the ego, but to learn how to live with it in a harmonious

frequent. Like harness it. Yeah, to not let it run the show, but to have awareness for the place that it serves because we can't completely bypass it. Otherwise, it's going to create a whole different plethora of issues. I mean, one of the things that, like, you and I definitely have resonated with is we both kind of came into Logan's life in a similar time frame post-japan post that big traumatic area. We both moved into the house, similar time frame. And I think also served roles in different ways, but also in similar ways to supporting him and becoming, just growing a lot as an individual. And in that time frame, I think it's just so interesting to see the inner workings of somebody like, like Logan, who we both know has a very pure heart

and really wants to just be the best entertainer, create the most content, live life in such a big way. And we both see that. And when, you, you're given so much at such a young age, you can become blinded by the trappings of success and think that it's all happening because of you and not your team or, you know, you can make him a step in some big ways. And I just think that there has been so much growth for us to also show up and step into those roles to be of support to him.

And I know he's, you know, very much so appreciated those moments. And I have no doubt that he's on a beautiful path to see where that kid is going to go, man. is just, it's mind-blowing to see the level of which he's playing. It's kind of like ceilingless, you know, I mean, it's just, it's more so just like, because his, the way he thinks about things is he's, he's the, he's a real example and the embodiment personification of anything is possible. Like, and I mean anything, like, when I hear anything's possible, that means I could be a

comedian if I want to or write another book or having New York Times best stuff. When he hears anything as possible, that means president. That means the first person on a different planet. means, you know, the biggest star and he really can be because specifically and mostly because he truly believes that. You can be what you believe you can be. You know, now, of course, he's gifted with a lot of other things that can help him propel him there, you know, his physique and his brain and, you know, his looks and entertainment and all of those things, right? He's got, he's got the full package, right? But, but, you know, as far as, you know, the relationships with him

are concerned. I mean, it's just another thing that's just like dramatically misunderstood, you know, by the internet. And it's something that I've really stopped even trying to fight against or make people understand. I mean, it would, it could,

remember that book? It was like the king and I or whatever. I literally could write another book simply about my relationship with this kid, bro. Like we, you know. I mean, like it has been just such a, long and and violent and fruitful and very psychedelic the full spectrum dude all of it everything you know and I think and I go through these little cycles in terms of how I'm received online and right now I'm back in the

because of this uh by the way awesome animation that was made the meat canyon did you see that it was this dude is the best animator on the internet and he made this like cartoon of me being this like groveling, like, dick-sucking yes man, right? And like, by the way, it was incredible and hilarious. My family was crying at it. And, but, but as you know, and the majority of people know, I'm the biggest no man. Like, I am constantly telling him, yo, and it's the reason why we buy heads a lot is because I've gone out of my way to tell him, yo, you're fucking up, dude.

Like, like, as much as possible. And, and because the, the perceptual. is simply what is seen on a podcast or on a vlog or whatever, or if I don't do a good enough job, drilling him when he's up against some sort of crisis, and I do try to, you know, support my friend, and I know all the behind-the-scenes factors, whether it be legal or whatever it is,

so that I ask certain questions, I'm bullied or whatever for not being enough of a, you know, an enemy of him and presenting the opposing viewpoint enough where I turn into this yes, man, which I really seriously and can confidently say I never have been. I have been the one person in his ear since day one saying, yo, this is not okay. This person's not okay.

You're not doing this. You're not doing that. Like I have been that person and I can confidently say that. And he would agree with that. For sure. And I think just online, you're always going to have people that misconstrue. Always.

Because you are somebody that benefits from the ship that is the Mavic Enterprise and Logan Paul that, you know, of course people are going to make their assumptions and whatnot. But that's the reason why I am. the no man. That's the reason why, because I am now on the same track as him. So if I simply said, yeah, do that, man.

Like, oh, that's a cool idea, bro, do that, do that. I'm now at risk. I am my own brand now, which is intertwined by way of my relationship with him. So, of course, now I say no to even more shit. Absolutely fucking not. You're not going to do that. Yeah. I've 100,000 text messages saying quite literally, don't fucking dare do that.

Yeah. Just before this, the Butmaid's group chat. It literally just happened, bro. You know what I'm saying? We have a group chat with everyone that was from the Maverick House and some others as well. Yeah, it's still going on. Still raging to this day. Which is insane to me.

Oh, man, we've been going for a minute here. I don't even know how long we've gone for. I have to say, like I said earlier, I get very wordy. I love to talk. And if there were times today where, you know, I rambled, I'm sorry. I'm not always the most laser sharp. My brain is basically a cloud all the time. There's a lot of good nuggets in there.

But if I went on a little long on a specific topic or lost train of thought, I apologize to you guys. And I hope that you'll have me back on, dude, because I had it. I had fun and I hope that, you know, somebody out there learned something. Yeah. I mean,

I definitely did. And I'm sure lots of people did for sure, man. there is a wide range of topics that we covered. And yeah, man, just bringing it back to I'm very looking forward to an exciting, excited to see your path continue to unfold. And I know so much impact and so much good is going to continue to come from it. Is there anything else that you want to share with this audience with any, in regards to anything that you feel like you wanted to bring out to the show or?

There was a lot of things that we didn't even get a chance to touch on, but we can do round two at some point. Yeah, I love to, bro. I mean, I mean, for me, it's just like sitting here having a conversation with a friend. So like, and someone that I, that I respect and love and care about. So it's, it's always fun. I mean, no, I mean, just, just regardless of your circumstance or, you know, what benefit you think can come out of it or whatever. Just please be nice to everyone.

Just, I mean, it really, it really is just not that hard to, to. skip that judgmental statement or, you know, remove yourself from the desire to put someone else down, even in the smallest way, dude. And I mean, if you've got a critique, if you've got a way to improve someone's life, if you've got something they can be doing better and you can deliver it that way and you feel like you can make a meaningful impact on someone, that's one thing. But, you know, just be good to each other, dude, out there. I really wish that there was a little bit more positivity in the world.

and I'll continue to be positive as much as possible and try to smile as much as possible and make people laugh and make people happy. But, I mean, we really together, we got to start bigging each other up and telling each other that we're doing good and that we should be proud of ourselves and just empathetic to the struggles

and complexness that we call life, you know? And it's like I said, a million times that it's just not ever as simple is what meets the eye. People are going through a lot of stuff. People are going through a lot of struggles. People are a lot of times doing the best they can against factors that you could never even understand or imagine.

And if we could just be a little bit nicer to each other and a little bit more understanding and patient with each other, that would go a long way. So just please dig deep today as you end this episode and just push yourself to be as kind to each other as possible. That would be the only thing I would ask you. Love that. beautiful reminder. Thank you, man. Thank you for coming on the show. For everybody that's been

tuning in, you know where to find Mike. All the links will be in the description. Excited for book two. Excited for potential podcast. Excited for the things that you're going to be creating, man. And for those that are new to the show, feel free to hit the subscribe and like button. I think, you know, that goes a long way. And I'm just really excited for what's being created here and bringing forth conversations that can show the depth and multidimensionality of individuals that we bring on the show. I learned so much. I hope that you are learning a lot along this process.

If you haven't already dropped in the comment section below, what was the takeaway or something that you loved and that you learned? I would love to hear that. We would love to hear that. And until next time, be well.