Know Thyself - E67 - Matt Dahlia, Letting Go & Embracing New Beginnings : The Truth Of Why Matt Left Yes Theory

Episode Date: October 10, 2023

Matt Dahlia, cofounder of Yes Theory, discusses his reason for quitting YouTube, and what he has gained as a result of that decision. Starting at the beginning, Matt shares his journey from entrepreneur to creating and scaling Yes Theory with his best friends. He openly discusses the challenges that came along with the success of the channel, including burnout, anxiety, and questioning if it was the right thing for him.  After making the decision to leave Yes Theory, Matt went on a journey of facing off with trauma and ultimately strengthening his ability to listen to his inner voice. Matt also discusses some of the hardest things he has experienced, from completing an Iron Man to writing a book, he leaves us with an inspiring message to face off with the challenges and continue to choose growth.   ___________ Timecodes: 0:00 Intro 3:17 Reflecting on Leaving Yes Theory and Writing a Book 7:39 Creating Yes Theory: Clarifying & Claiming the Life that You Want 15:54 The YouTube Creator Burnout: Why it Happens and How to Avoid it 25:18 Facing off with Trauma & Anxiety  32:38 The Time I Yelled at God and He Answered: Listening to Your Inner Voice 43:19 Healing within Community: Our Men’s Group  54:59 Navigating the World as a Highly Sensitive Person 1:04:09 The Hardest Thing I’ve Ever Done: Writing a Book 1:14:56 What the World Needs Most: Each Other 1:22:32 André on Working with Logan Paul 1:29:30 Finding Success Without College 1:35:41 Why Matt Changed His Name 1:52:35 What’s Coming Next for Matt 1:54:24 Conclusion ___________ Matt Dahlia is a French-American author and entrepreneur. He is the cofounder of Yes Theory as well as Seek Discomfort, a clothing brand, and Fan of a Fan, a brand factory for creators. He has a newsletter at https://mattdahlia.substack.com/ where he openly shares his experiences and life lessons. He loves making up songs on the guitar and dabbles in tennis, salsa, and mountain climbing. Pre-order "Talk to Strangers": https://www.seekdiscomfort.com/products/matts-book-bonuses-pre-order?selling_plan=589234198&variant=43863623204886 Matt's Newsletter: https://substack.com/profile/142665194-matt-dahlia Watch Matt's Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/@YesTheoryPodcast ___________ Download André's FREE Book Recommendation List: https://www.knowthyself.one/books Know Thyself Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/knowthyself/ Website: https://www.knowthyself.one Clips Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJ4wglCWTJeWQC0exBalgKg Listen to all episodes on Audio:  Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4FSiemtvZrWesGtO2MqTZ4?si=d389c8dee8fa4026 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/know-thyself/id1633725927 André Duqum Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andreduqum/ Meraki Media https://merakimedia.com https://www.instagram.com/merakimedia/

I for my whole life have played this tough guy. I prided myself on being this like athlete leader, all these different labels of what it means to be a man when I was dying inside. I'm going to give you the full truth. And it's going to be hard. I started yesterday when I was 23, filming hundreds and hundreds of videos,

traveling around the world. When you're busy like that, when you're trying to prove yourself to the world, rarely are you asking yourself what you want? Towards the end of 2019, thinking of myself, like, I don't know how I'm going to keep doing this. I started to get this gnawing feeling that maybe there was something else. These lessons that I'm taking with me are a big reason why I'm now stepping away from Yes Theory,

which is I know what happens when you allow yourself to let go, allow yourself to be free and just risk going into the unknown. Listening to your inner voice makes no sense on paper. You have to let go and you have to allow yourself to be, guided by something bigger than your head. This is probably the most pivotal moment of my life. Hello, beautiful beings. Welcome back to the Know Theyself podcast for every single week. We get the honor and privilege to sit down with the brilliant mind, a deep soul to learn more about the true nature of self and the world around us at deeper and deeper levels. My guest today co-founded

the group Yes Theory, which is a YouTube channel, a movement of over 10 million young creatives that seek discomfort and choose love over fear and try their best to strive. towards a authentic life. And my guest, Matt, is one of my best friends on the planet. It's been such a beautiful thing to witness his path over the past few years, really unfolding and living out that ethos of seek discomfort to going inwards, addressing his mental health, making tough decisions, writing a book, all these things we're going to dive into at greater lengths. And something that I really love about Matt is just how he makes all of his friends feel feel like superheroes in his eyes.

He always just has a guy that's grounding and incredible spirit and presence. So Matt, thanks for coming on the show, bro. Dude. I appreciate it. Yeah. We hang out often and we kind of just come in these chairs and mics and just mess around. Yeah, we definitely said some ridiculous things in these mics just for fun. But I mean, dude, yeah.

It's just so cool to be here. I've followed the whole journey literally from before. before you started, like when you were just planning, it was just an idea. So to be here is really cool. Yeah, that's just a beautiful thing of having shared experience with friends. You get to see the arc of their journey and the ups and downs, the trials, the triumphs.

And for you, I've been, like I said, in the intro, kind of really, it's been beautiful to witness your own journey unfolding inwards and going through some difficult moments. And a lot of individuals that follow you, have been inspired by you over the years from all the things that you've done from the videos that you guys have created and obviously with alongside Thomas and Amar who I love and this podcast I'm excited to dive in deeper into a lot of things that you haven't shared about that I've gotten to see by virtue of being your friend and being close to it all.

And so yeah, there's the saying of like you can't see the picture while you're in the frame. And so it's like I feel like very much so you can't see the chapter of life you're in while it's still unfolding until you're kind of in a new chapter, which you're very much so starting now. So I'd love for you to share how you feel when you kind of zoom out and you're like connecting the dots looking backwards to what this whole chapter really with yes theory has been that the man that you've had to become on the process of it. And how do you how do you view this whole chapter of your life? Big question.

Love it. I love starting here. Oh man. Hmm. I started yesterday when I was 23 with Thomas. Marr and Darren, who were the three other co-founders. And it's been eight years since we started, a little over eight years. So most of my 20s were spent filming hundreds and hundreds of videos,

traveling around the world, building this online audience and in person. And so, I mean, for anybody, I mean, like you, for example, or anybody that's in the creator world in any kind of way, there's this, like you said, right, when you're in the frame, it's really hard to understand what chapter you're in or what the painting looks like. And I am really just in the past year and a half to two years and you've seen a lot of this with me. You know, we've shared so many conversations about this, but finally starting to see what it looks like, finally starting to see what I built with my friends, the impact that it's had, how it's made me feel. And

I'd say the overall summary of my 20s is a guy who was desperate to be seen, desperate to fit in, belong, desperate to be successful, and desperate to live a full life. And I'm so grateful, obviously, for so many of these moments. but the ultimate lesson that I'm getting as I'm leaving this chapter of my life is most of that is external most of that is how people see me versus how I see myself and so it's been now going into this new chapter the biggest lesson I'm taking and I share this in the book and I've shared this on the podcast that I've done and stuff it's really just asking myself what I want which is a question I never fully took the time to ask and

when you're busy like that, when you're trying to prove yourself to the world, rarely are you asking yourself what you want. It's more what does the world want. And so now the question is switching. And it's a hard process. It's a hard switch. But it's cool to do it kind of publicly so I can show people what it's like to make that transition. To follow the whole journey, not just, of course, the exciting big moments that you caught on camera.

and the helie jump with Will and the, you know, the Iron Man and all the videos and things where you really challenge yourself and provided an amazing source of inspiration for millions of people around the world. Like I can't even imagine the ripples that that has and the ripples that those ripples have is just kind of unfathomable. And like you spoke to, you know, of course there was this part that was, you know, even starting yes theory. You know, you and Thomas both were kind of it originated out of having a heartbreak, really, and trying to prove yourself to these girls. Hey, man, don't remind me.

Yeah, yeah, it's true, it's true. But it's like there's that side of things, but it's also mixed with this genuine urge to live life to the fullest and to explore and see the world and live in inspiring an authentic life. And so it's, of course, both. And while looking back,

I think we can have this kind of myopic lens of the things we did wrong or the limited version of ourselves we operated from, which is of course part of it. But there's just so many beautiful lessons along the whole journey of Yes Theory that it'd be cool to riff on a little bit here, man, because there were a series of moments of you really claiming the life that you wanted to live with all you guys. But the moment that you left your t-shirt company, Heart City, to go all in on the YouTube

channel, when you guys stopped the production company to go all in on it, there's a series of like really claiming what you want. When you find alignment in that thing and then you fully claim it, there's so much power in what it opens up, who it brings into your life, the opportunities, the places, the people.

It's like the universe just kind of pads you on your back and gives you more serendipitous moments. And so how do you feel about the power of claiming that one thing and going all in on it, right? Because without going on this path

of being a content creator and doing a lot of things which you now might feel as an in full alignment, without going through that. You didn't really have context. For sure. You didn't get to discover that.

And also I had to learn those lessons through doing Yes Theory. That was the greatest gift, lesson after lesson. And I think, yeah, dude, I mean, I think when I realized it's like, it's a calculation. It's like a math equation, you know, for the things you want in your life. The only thing it requires is a very pure focus and a prioritization. And that's not even some kind of like woo-woo manifestation kind of thing. It's like these are studies done that prioritizing a goal and making only like one single priority. And picking it, just choosing actually works.

And like you said, I mean, there's been so many times throughout yes theory where we got distracted. You know, there was so many things we wanted to do. We were building this audience. And we're like, holy shit, like we can, like millions of people are following us. We can do so much. Like finally, the world felt totally open. And so about, yeah, two and a half years in, we started to really think about other businesses we wanted to build.

And, you know, like you said, a production company and we're building a merch company and like literally inviting everybody into the house in Venice, California, where we were based. And it was like the doors were open. everybody's invited and everything's good to go. We're just going to do it all. And what we quickly realized, and this is one of the big lessons that I'm taking with me for the rest of my life, is it's the, I mean, I say it in the book, it's the classic, I don't know, what, where this saying is from, but the chase two rabbits get none. I forget, somebody told me that very early on. It's like, you chase two rabbits, you get none. And as soon as we start, these other businesses too soon, our focus just dissipated. It kind of just, it was almost like it split in two. And the channel, this thing that we've been working on and fully dedicated to

for two and a half years, just kind of slowed down, everything slowed down. The production company was doing great. So we were holding onto these two businesses that were just kind of stagnant. whereas if we had just stayed focused on one of them, it would have taken off. And that's what we realized about six months in to starting the production company. But even before that, I mean, before I started yesterday, I'd started a clothing company.

It was a streetwear brand. I was living in Montreal at the time. And I was, you know, this 21-year-old kid, again, desperately trying to be Richard Branson. Like, I saw Richard Branson as, that was my guy. I was like, I'm going to be. a billionaire founder, entrepreneur of like 400 companies and like an icon of this world. And so I started a few businesses and finally got to this clothing company, which was the first

one that actually worked for me. And about a year and a half in, it was really struggling. And I just couldn't figure out how to make it work. Like, you know, we were getting sales, but I couldn't really get it off the ground. I had a co-founder, but he was still in school. And it was you know i was living in this tiny studio working at a bar down the street just to make rent and externally it would look cool you know like i have i was posting on instagram and facebook and people were showing up to our events and i made it look from the outside like we were hot shit but internally it was just yeah it was a struggle so when i met thomas who was the co-founder of yes theory and uh him and i connected in 2015

He was in a marketing class and Ida Teabogie, as we call him, was also kind of in that mindset of wanting to build something big. And he had a little YouTube channel. And he was doing these little cute skits. And I was starting to recognize the power of influencers or creators online and how they could build traction for a brand. So I was like, dude, I'll help you out with your videos. You help me out with my clothing company. we'll make a deal, one video and we'll leave it at that. Of course, I had no idea that I would be sitting here.

A thousand videos later. Yeah, talking about the thing we ended up actually building, which was off the back of his YouTube channel and into, you know, adventure videos, seeking discomfort, getting out of our comfort zones with me and the guys. But to kind of like summarize these two points is about a year into building yes theory there came that moment again, which was like, chase two rabbits getting on. I had to pick. Like, I felt so divided. And I could feel, it's like a, it's like a full body feeling. You can sense when you're being pulled in one direction, but this other thing that you created or were a part of or whatever is like still clinging on to you, but it's adding to the weight.

And you're trying to get lighter so you can take on this new thing. And I felt that with the clothing company. I felt that with Heart City. So it was like a decision one night where I was like, okay, I was looking at the rack of clothes in my room that I still hadn't sold in. And I was like, and I was living with Amar and Thomas at the time. And I looked at them. I was like, fuck it, guys. We're going to literally go all in. And it is crazy.

We went all in. Within a month, we get an email. Like the email that changes our lives. That flies us out. Snapchat flies us out. flies us out to LA they pay us $50,000 to

create a show for them and then we get our first big batch of audience so yeah man it's these lessons that I'm taking with me are a big reason why I'm now stepping away from yes theory which is I know what happens when you

allow yourself to let go allow yourself to be free and just risk going into the unknown it's still scary is a motherfucker. Yeah. It seems to always be that way. It's just when you have, in a big theme of this whole podcast, I feel it's going to be surrendering, letting go, shedding those old identities that we've clung

onto so much. It's who we perceive ourselves to be. It's how we've operated in the world. And of course, the whole journey of yes theory, I can think of, you know, climbing the mountain with Wim Hof, that doing the Iron Man and training seven months for that, there's so many examples of that where the discomfort was like through physical pain through something external like this big mountain that you have to climb and then eventually on your journey you come to realize maybe the most uncomfortable thing is sitting alone and like going inward maybe that's the thing that I can seek discomfort within my own reality and like you know that seems the hardest to do

and so as you started to go on this journey of course part of you love the growth of it all the success of it all the adulation, everything that came from it. And then there's a feeling that kind of is like, oh, I'm becoming a cog in the machine almost. And I think this is a theme with a lot of creatives that they start something because they have this genuine, innocent curiosity, this passion for something. And the love for it and the alignment for it is what kind of brings in many ways the success to come in. And then the question comes, how can I make money off this? How can I turn it into a business? How can we grow up faster and faster?

And then it becomes this thing that is almost using you instead of this genuine passion that it started out as. And then with that, you start to feel like a cog in the machine. And it's like, why am I doing this? You know, the joy starts to get sucked from it and you start questioning it. And so take us through the journey of, you know, a few of those pivotal moments where you started to feel like, hold on, re-questioning kind of why am I doing this and feeling like you were kind of doing it for the numbers and not for necessarily the love of it. Yeah. I mean, I feel like this is actually around the time you and I start hanging out. Well, kind of, ishish. But it was a little before COVID and then once COVID hit, I mean, COVID was amazing. I mean, it was not amazing. I mean, it was not amazing. I mean, COVID was brutal, you know, obviously. I'll just leave. I'll just say. that.

COVID was brutal. However, if I'm being totally real and transparent, for me, it saved my life. And...

It's okay that it can be both. It was an atrocity for a lot of people. And for a lot of people, it gave them

just an opportunity for self-reflection. And I think a lot of people grew a lot in that time because they were forced to look at their own shit.

Yeah. It's always a weird thing to talk about because, I mean, there's just so much around it. But I I remember towards the end of 2019

thinking to myself I can't I don't know how I'm going to keep doing this we'd been doing it for almost five years and I was like I feel like I'm like my body's falling apart because we're just filming every every like six days seven days we're traveling somewhere and some days we'll go to freaking Australia for two days

three days and fly back and then we'll go to freaking like Japan you know it's just constant and so the five years had really caught up with me and I didn't know how to express that. I didn't know how to say like, hey, I need to pause. I need to stop and take a break because I'm going to burn out hard. And then when COVID happened in March, it was weird for me. It was like, oh my God, thank God. I have an excuse.

I have an excuse to stop. Otherwise, I would have kept going until I crashed. and like you said, you know, I mean, literally billions of other people had this moment where they had to look at themselves and sit in a room alone and think about their lives, probably for a lot of us for the first time. And for me, as I started to sit alone, I started to realize that, oh, filming is like hosting was never the thing that was my highest excitement. and social media also not my highest excitement and me needing a break definitely my highest excitement

because as I was sitting getting still and starting to dive into myself like you said earlier I start to realize oh this is the actual like this thing this line that we've had forever seek discomfort being alone with my thoughts and undelt with trauma

was the ultimate discomfort So I bit by bit just started to dive in So I was doing like recovery groups and therapy and all these different things And slowly at the same time stepping away from yes theory But I mean I don't for you I guess for you Because even as you're saying all this like The the creator kind of You know burnout vibe

Like it's such a I almost like hesitate to talk about it Because there's it's it's so cliche It's like you know builds a YouTube channel, gets success, burns out, talks about it on podcasts, writes a book about it, and then bounces. You know, it's like, do we really need another creator talking about burnout? But I think what's cool in being your friend and witnessing your journey is, and we've talked about this with our other friends as well, is witnessing that it's actually possible to do it in a balanced way, which I had never had access to,

a creator that had really figured out how to you know still maintain their sanity and their joy and not put so much pressure on what they were creating I mean because for me you started this podcast a year and a half ago you launched it a year and a half ago

so I've witnessed you up like for the past two and a half years like really thinking about this and doing it and I've never really seen a moment of you being stressed about it, which is wild. Because I am like the whole time I've been anxiety ridden, building what I built, like, what's going to go wrong? How are we going to fix it?

Blah, blah, blah, blah. What's it going to look like in the future? So to witness your steady approach to this, I think is another big lesson that I'm taking with me. But I think this is like, I'm a big fan of this podcast. And we kind of talked about this before. I'm uno carding you right now. Because I, I, you hold so much wisdom and you have these incredibly wise people on this podcast.

And obviously I want to get into my story a ton. But I think it's also cool to hear your journey a little bit, you know, and just kind of get a vibe for like how you got here. You're doing something incredible. Thank you, man. Yeah. Thank you. I appreciate it. I love you.

And, you know, I think there's something inherently different about the formats. Like podcasts are just way more chill than trying to travel around the world and film a 12 minute piece of content that's super highly engaging. It's true. It's like that to me is just it's much more prone to feeling anxious and like you've got to get all the pieces together. There's a lot more. And so that's one. Podcasting is just inherently more relaxed and chill, especially kind of I've set up the systems to fulfill and do the parse that are more tedious to me, the editing and certain things like that. But like as we were speaking to earlier, of course it's possible.

when we're so focused on the numbers and making money, it's like our purpose has been reduced down to a function. What we feel like we genuinely started, like innocent curiosity that we were speaking to earlier, turns into this thing that is controlling us. And it's no wonder so many people feel lonely and anxious as they step into the creator space and especially they're tuned into social media,

constantly fed different highlight reels. And it's just an important reminder that we're not machines with broken parts. We are human beings with unfulfilled needs. And that's why the anxiety and the loneliness and all these things kind of rise. And so, yeah, for me, I'm so grateful and privileged and honored that I've been able to find something that I'm so aligned with that really excites me. And that it also feels like it serves the world. And it also is growing and growing more and more on the business and financial side.

And when you kind of tick all those buckets, there's a general feeling of usefulness. and it doesn't feel as, you know, anxiety-ridden as pumping out a new video every week or multiple times a week and you got to come up with the ideas and, you know, it's much more chill. So that's what I would say in terms of my own flow and format with it. But you giving yourself the space that you needed, you know, around COVID time to really realize that, oh, this actually wasn't in full alignment with what I'd love to be doing the most. Like, yes, videos and doing a lot of these things are exciting, but you thrive much more and kind of the behind the scenes

and doing different things, not as much forward facing on the camera. I'm excited to have you here today for the cameras because, I mean, as much as, you know, there's parts of it that you don't like. There's a, I think a lot of people online have missed

seeing your voice and your grounding presence in the world. And that's something that you've continually provided back for me. So I appreciate the reflection. That's my share. And now I, Uno, reverse card back to you as the podcast. Oh, damn it. Fine.

But, you know, because, listen, yes, there's a cliche of the creator burnout. People have heard of that. But it's your own real experience where when, no matter what you're doing in life, if it's not an alignment and you're not operating from a place of true, genuine passion for it and it feels like aligned, of course there's going to be anxiety. You have unmet needs in that space. And so as you started to go in the process of self-discovery and self-inquiry, you started to pay attention to, really your own mental health and the anxiety that was kind of just unrecognized for a long time. So how did you start to gain awareness to these things? And then what did it start to look like as you started to unpack this? In 2018, I met this woman named Bonnie very serendipitously.

And she was a therapist at UCLA. And she became a really close friend and then a mentor. and pretty soon into hanging out she started talking about trauma the word trauma which is hilarious to even think about this now but I literally had never thought about

that word and now it's obviously it's I mean I see it everywhere but she was almost like she just opened this door of hey all this success is cool but this is where

you're actually going to start to feel better and she introduced me to people like Gabor Maté Peter Levin, Peter Levine, Wicking the Tiger, all these, you know, body keeps the score. It was like back to back, book after book, she was sending me. And so I started to just look into this world of healing, trauma. You know, I mean, I suffered from like severe, severe, severe anxiety even before yes theory. So it's, you know, I'd become this workaholic in a lot of ways to avoid dealing with that severe anxiety.

And obviously the workaholism only contributed to it more over time. So Bonnie introduces me to this world. And suddenly there's like words to how I'm feeling. There's like, oh, there's dissociation. Oh, that's like a thing people talk about, like feeling out of your body because I felt that. like for so long, but I've never really put a label on it. And there's things like, you know, IFS, internal family system, inner child work,

like my childhood has stuff that is involved in this. Like, that's affecting how I'm feeling now. You know, and I, you know, it's interesting. I hesitate to talk about this now because I'm still in the process of this healing. it's not I'm not coming on this podcast being like bro I'm fucking solid you forgot your your shawl and your turban yeah yeah I'm like about to me now well you kind of are levitating yeah I'm kind of leitating and so there's this I think that's part of the nervousness and you know

being back in the world and being in yes theory and yeah I'm gonna join in on videos and talk about the book and all this stuff is I feel like a guy who's in the middle of of the marathon talking about the first half of the marathon, whereas I'm like, I still got the second half to run. But the reason I am doing it is because I think there is a lot of service as well that comes with speaking about it. There's a level of connection I get from talking about it while I'm going through it rather than waiting for a few years from now when I'm much better.

and there's a level of like hey in order for me to get better i need to leave this thing and so i don't want to bounce without saying goodbye like i want to say bye and it's also kind of difficult because the people who are closest to me you know even up until recently very recently like you have seen me broken and hurt and still working through a lot of this stuff. So I find that I am ultimately, I would say, proud of myself. And I think what I'm also learning is that by talking about it while I'm going through it, I'm developing this sense of confidence in it in myself, in this feeling of like, oh, it's not this scary monster you know it's mental health is like physical health it's like i think within

the next few years maybe a little later it's going to be the norm to be like call up a friend like hey dude my mental health is not in a good place right now and i need support and we do that for each other we're you know as we speak but there is still that little fear that's like i don't talk about it you know just don't don't don't address it especially if you're going through it in the moment and fuck dude i'm going through it like this book is bringing it all out writing it brought it all out but now

publicly being involved in all of it is it's just one day at a time process and couldn't do it without the support so yeah dude yeah it's it's beautiful for you just to speak into it because you imagine how many people that deal with anxiety

feeling lonely at times and don't hear what you just shared, well, then there is one less relatable individual on the planet that makes them feel a little bit less alone. And so I think it's really important to have these conversations while you're in it. Also acknowledging, listen, I don't have it all figured out, but it's just, it can be incredibly comforting for people. And so, yeah, bro, the process of you going in and writing the book and now coming back online and sharing, I think it's just cool to share your real-time experience of how you're flowing with it all and how it's moving because it's a journey.

Mental health, uncovering childhood wounds and trauma. It's like it doesn't just get resolved overnight as much of us would like it to. So yeah, man, it's been really beautiful to see your own process and really the courage that it takes to listen to that inner voice and make those difficult, incredibly uncomfortable decisions of deleting your social media, deciding. I have a few hundred thousand followers on people, everyone's super engaged. And then early in 2020 you said, whatever, I'm deleting it because it's affecting my mental health. And so there's so much power to talk into about choosing you and giving yourself that permission

slip, of course, everybody that's listening that also gives them that permission slip in many ways. But yeah, what have you learned about the courage of listening to your inner intuition and making those big, big jumps? I've learned that it won't make sense on paper. listening to your inner voice makes no sense on paper. Up until the point where I started doing it, where I started to actually listen to that voice, everything made sense on paper, to me, at least. It was all head-driven, brain-driven.

Default mode network, I was just calculating in my brain what would create the best outcome for myself. As I started to get into recovery, one of the biggest parts about recovery groups and all this stuff is it's in order for it to work it has to be spiritual this is you people that come into these rooms are i mean i won't speak for people but i came into this room these rooms obsessed with control i was god i was in charge and so that comes from this survival background of my whole life I felt like it's just been I've been in survival mode so I needed it I needed to be in control in order to stay safe however as I progressed in these

groups and you know moved ahead in the steps the powerlessness is the biggest piece you have to let go and you have to allow yourself to be guided by something bigger than your head. And it took me about two years to allow that to happen. It was this fight. I was just battling. My head and my heart were just at war with each other. And it wasn't until I went to this cabin last year, February of 2022. In the middle of writing the book, in the middle all the, all the,

the shit show in my head. I was like, I gotta get away. So I went to this cabin in Nevada, Mount Charleston, found the most isolated, remote piece of land in America. It's like, put me here. And when I get out, I'll have it figured out. And I didn't take my phone. So middle of winter, I'm by myself in this cabin, in the woods, covered in snow. This mountain's covered in snow and it gets dark at like five or six or whatever and I'm just scared in the middle of the night when snow falls off the roof don't even get me started literally yes more scared than I've ever been like am I about to be murdered no snow is just falling out of the room this is a true story yeah so I for the first two weeks that I got to

the cabin I had pretty much a panic attack every day And I couldn't sleep. I would sleep like three or four hours a night, sometimes less. And I about two weeks in had this moment where I couldn't sleep again. And it was a two-floor cabin. So I would just like walk down the stairs from my bedroom and just go down to the couch. And I felt like I was losing my mind. So I walked down the stairs at 3 a.m.

and I sit down on the couch by the fireplace. I take a deep breath. And then I just kind of start talking like this. I'm like, you motherfucker. You son of a bitch. Like, you call yourself a god. Like, you would do this to me. You would make me suffer like this?

Fuck off. Fuck off, dude. And this anger, this like intense built up resentment and just fucking poured out of me. And for the next hour, dude, I was just screaming. I got up from the couch and just was hollering at God, being like shaking. Thankfully, I was away from many of the other houses. There's nobody around.

So I think that was part of it. Getting away from the world allowed me to let that out, you know, not worry about who is going to hear it. And so this like just intense anger comes out and after about an hour, I just lay back down to the couch. I just leave my head back. And this, the first time it's ever happened, this voice, this super quiet voice, which goes, still love you. I still love you. In the past, I would have questioned it.

That's not real. It's not blah, blah, blah. Just making excuses for what this is. But because I'd been alone for some time, because I hadn't had distractions of the phone, because I'd like screamed and let so much out, it was unquestionable. It's like, whoa, that was real.

Holy shit. From that point on, it's been an everyday thing. That voice, sometimes it's harder to hear if there are more distractions around, every day in that cabin, I learned to listen. And I don't say this. I'm not like, I don't have this like old man talking in my head. It's really just, it's my heart. It's this God-given heart that has been trying to communicate to me for my whole damn life. And I've been shutting it down, escaping from it with my freaking head. And so I was able to listen to it. And now my life is guided by that

voice. My life is I can't make big decisions without getting still, getting down on my knees, waiting, and allowing it to come through. And when I say the voice, you know, it's like, I say it's, you know, this voice is, it doesn't make sense on paper is because all these decisions that I've made since are, if I were to have made these decisions in my mind, mind, you're literally psycho. But because I get this guidance now from my heart and from the universe, whatever you want to call that voice, the decisions I'm making are leading me in a direction that I would have never gone otherwise, a direction that's so unfamiliar because in mind, the ego is just going to only guide you to the familiar. That's like, it knows one thing,

the past, the familiar, blah, blah, blah. That's why you just repeat these cycles of who you are. And that's why in these recovery programs, they're like, you can't get through without the spiritual piece because the spiritual piece takes you to the unfamiliar. And the unfamiliar is where you actually become a line. It's where you actually grow. Of course, the unfamiliar is scary as a motherfucker. Again, why seek discomfort is like the best tagline ever. Because it is, that's how you grow. So yeah. Yeah, dude. What a process. What a freaking process. So beautiful, man, what you just shared. I'm just getting the visual and, you know, talking to you around that time, too, of you got to be willing to face the abyss, like stare at the abyss in the dark head on and say, let's go. I'm here, you know, and it's very much like a death of sorts. Like you have to be willing to let go of that old egoic narrative that is so familiar and clings on to this anxiety-ridden, unworthiness telling, like, mind of yours that continues. You know, that continues. You know, feeds these negative thoughts and man it takes a lot of courage to be able to go there and because you had the courage to go there you're being a reminder right now of everybody that it's it's so important and if you don't and you just keep operating from the headspace and the egoic mind you're going to keep hitting brick walls and things are going to be come crashing down at some point because you can't live there forever um so it's just an incredible reminder and I think

I think so many people feel like their anxiety is like a malfunction. It's like, I'm broken inside. You know, when you're screaming and I get this image of you raging to God. It's like, why me, you know, and why could you do this to me? You know. And then you coming in and you doing the work since then, and I've seen you do the work, it's like you realize that the anxiety is really a signal of something that needs to be reconciled that you haven't been paying attention to.

And so unless you get still, unless you get quiet, you just can't hear. those things. You're just going to continually function from that familiar state like you were speaking to. And so, man, you know, it's been beautiful and like you're still on the journey, of course, but it's been cool to see you like get more and more glimpses of that state when you listen to that intuition and that in that voice because we're all born with it. We have like that first innocence. And, you know, some traditions I call the second innocence is rediscovering that again back within yourself, which comes by virtue of you not turning away what, you know, what doesn't want a blind eye. And so, yeah, bro, I know there is a couple more big moments. I mean, I remember when we were

out in Hawaii earlier this year, I remember there's been, you know, many times where you've been that courageous permissions that for many others, too, to, like, fully address and, like, just go there, you know, fully emotionally release what's holding you there and, like, fully address it. Otherwise, it kind of just continually makes your reality a little bit more. shitty every day. Yeah, but then when you fully address it on, it sucks while you're in it. But then you find so much more freedom on the other side of it. So yeah. Any other moments that you want to bring up there and then also what you've like started to discover on the other side and how that intuitive voice feels to you. I think it'd be cool to talk about where you just

dressed Hawaii, Hawaii. Yeah? Yeah. Because I, it's coming up on a year, yeah, that we had the first dinner. Yeah. Almost a year. So I guess a little bit of context here is probably useful. Yeah. Yeah. Basically, so I guess it's kind of first time talking about this. But yeah, Maddie and I are in a men's group.

There's like eight of us guys. And it started out as really just like a mastermind dinner that I started to host at my house. And then it just turned into blossoms into this incredible vehicle for reflecting back to each other, our greatness, reflecting back to each other where we're limiting ourselves. the full spectrum really, and it's just an incredible eight. I'm so inspired and look up to every single human in there, including you. And so it's been great. And since then, we, you know, kind of we meet monthly. And it's like helping each other realize the capacity that we have for bigness.

And then also, like I spoke to, where we feel like we're playing small within ourselves. And that process of mirroring back to each other what we see, I think, is incredibly powerful because when you're so close to your own bullshit, it's so hard to see. It's like if you don't brush your teeth for four or five days, you won't really notice because it's been accustomed to your nose, but everyone else around you will be able to smell it. And so we're smell at each other's on brushed teeth.

Literally, dude. So, yeah, and Hawaii was one of those. Well, I'd love to go back just a little bit to how, because you are the architect of this group. You put it together. I don't actually even know this like when the idea actually came to you why you decided to do it

why at this time in your life and why the people you picked you know because it's become such a powerful group and now it feels like one of the most aligned things in my life but again it came from yeah

well like you were speaking to you I feel like as you continue to find stillness that intuitive voice grows and something that I spend a lot of time on is is being in that space as much as possible and listening to what, you know, what comes through. And it kind of start out as whispers of like, you know, and an idea and something that kind of drops into your thought process of, and also it's part of just who I am. I love community

curation. I love bringing together brilliant minds and sometimes on and off camera, you know. And so it just started out really as this idea to bring together some powerful people who are exceptional business leaders or been very successful in the 3D world, but also I feel like are very heartled and leaders from that space and just genuine humble dudes. And so started out like that. And then I genuinely feel like I can't take credit for it because it's like a greater intelligence, kind of orchestrated it and brought it together. And part of it is like showing up and listening to that voice, making the decision, and then letting go and surrendering and see what wants to come through that. And so that was kind of the process of it. And so that was kind of the process of

And then, yeah, it just kind of unraveled very quickly. I think you were like the first or second share and you're just like, you know, when there's, when you cut through and you're super vulnerable, like you just connect with people at that deep level, which I think is a superpower of yours. Like continually I see that. And so that was the start of something incredibly special. And yeah. And then cut scene six months later.

You're in Hawaii. Yeah. Well, to me, my perspective on this is. the you sent us a text or I think you individually it was kind of like the glass onion what's that movie where they where he gathers like the eight people on an island oh but he sends them each like a very cool individual message got it I don't yeah so anyways when I got the text from you it was like oh interesting like a men's group I mean I was in I was a mess you know like that was bad. And I remember again being like my head being like, there's no way I can be with a group of

eight dudes right now. Like dudes I don't know except for Dre and another one. So can I say who? B. Brandon. Yeah. So Dre and Brandon are the only two I know. The other six, I don't. Not worth it. I'm not trying to make new friends. This is not the time in my life to make new friends. I am solely, I have to spend more time alone. I have to work through my relationship with the guys in yes theory. I have to exit that before I can start a whole new life with new people. It would be too overwhelming.

I prayed on it. And it was a very clear go. This was the day before. I was like, fuck. The morning of, I did it again. And it was go. So for me, it's always what looks like one word, go. Yay, nay.

Those are the how I hear it. Or sometimes absa fucking lute. And I drove to your place. You were living in Venice at the time. An hour before, no, 20 minutes before the dinner with these guys, I parked my car and I put my head on the steering wheel. And I'm like, God, I don't. I'm not in the shape to do this.

And again, it's just go. Just go. I show up. And again, like you said, it's some of those young, incredible, inspiring men I've ever been around in my life. And we sit around this table and everybody's nervous. You're like, what is, what's happening here?

What are we doing? What's Dre brought us to? Is this like, you know, You know, are we said networking thing? Is this like a one-time thing? What do we? And you, I mean, as always, had this like incredible food and you curated this incredible night. And we were going around the table and you asked each of us to share.

And yeah, I remember going up. And because I was felt so broken, I was like, I'm not even going to pretend I'm okay. I'm just going to show you guys. because otherwise I'm going to hate being here. And so I just fully opened up. I was like, yo, this is where I'm struggling. I started crying. You know, it's like this has been really brutal.

These past two years for me have been really hard. I, like, I can't sleep. I didn't sleep last night. I didn't want to come here, you know, all this stuff. And just like you won't take credit for putting the group together, I definitely won't take credit for opening it up with any kind of vulnerability. However, I also feel like there is a gift from the desperation. There's a gift from the brokenness that I didn't have a choice.

It's almost like the universe was like just fucking like, I'm going to break you down so you actually show your true self. And then to be able to witness these leaders one at a time just freaking reveal themselves. that night was like leaving it was kind of like you know I think I bring up dating in every podcast I do because I think dating is such a great analogy for so many things in life but it's kind of like leaving a first date and you're not like but you're just kind of driving home and you're like what the fuck just happened what was that?

I've never experienced anything like that in my life. So it's more of like, again, putting me in the unfamiliar. Whoa. Whoa. Fast forward to Hawaii, six months later, we're like, if that was deep, we just went a whole another level. And month by month, dinner by dinner, trip by trip. It's been, I mean, life-changing doesn't even feel like it does it just,

justice. Yeah. There's something unique about bringing in together, whether it's all women or all men, to kind of, for those polaris to be separate in a way, because there's a level of depth within each archetypal energy within masculine and feminine that allows, like when it's all that, you can just go really deep and there is, you can drop in much deeper. And there's just such a power to brotherhood that we've completely lost. We've lost these initiations. We've lost these rite of passages that really help us jump from being a boy to a man. And so I think in the future, I'm sure there'll be more that I and, you know, we share of kind of a blueprint of how people can enact this in their life because it's so incredibly important for men to have other men

that can support them. And like I said, not just all the success driven motivation with money and achieving and how so many men, you know, place their worth and their performance, but also the emotional side that gets neglected. And the balance of both is, I think, really important. And, you know, we've done some incredibly challenging suffering things together, like climbing up a mountain and, you know, and just like with ropes and it was just intense. Yeah, I've climbed hard mountains. That was the hardest mountain that climbed. So there's a lot to that. I think suffering together is just some brings people close. But then also creating that safe space.

for us to express whatever's holding us back, realizing that until we do that, we're always going to just be operating from at best, the limited version of ourselves. And so, yeah, so much to open up there. But yeah, I think it's just powerful and a take home for everyone else as well, that whether you're in your family dynamics,

friend dynamics, you know, or your creator and you share these kind of things online, people always connect to what's real and to just be vulnerably sharing in a way you're no longer vulnerable because you're laying it all out there. It's like that one scene in eight mile when Eminem's in the freestyle battle.

I am white. I am a fucking bum. I do live in a trailer with my mom. I think that's the line. Yeah, and all that. You're just laid out, this is me. There's nothing you can say because they just laid it all out there.

There's so much power in that. Yeah. Even doing it now, I feel it. Yeah. Even just being open about all this. It's just like, oh, I'm good. I'm Gucci. Another big thing is, you know, realizing that every man and woman is on a spectrum of sensitivity

and you kind of realizing your own, like being, there's that book, HSP, you know, or it's like the highly sensitive person and realizing that, especially with a lot of creatives, they're incredibly sensitive. By virtue of that, they have access to more of the arts, right? But the shadow side of that as well is if it's not grounded, if it's not grounded, if it's integrated and you're not operating from that side of sensitivity, then you're sensitive to a lot of the other things, which is the anxiety and the loneliness and the negative voices and how that manifests externally as well. And so how powerful was that realization of that?

Of me being sensitive. Yeah, just like really realizing that. Yeah, it came from my ex-girlfriend. After we broke up, she texted me. and said, hey, I think this book would help the highly sensitive person. I think Elaine Aaron is the author. I always forget, but I, yeah, dude, I remember reading it. It was like reading my biography. It was insane. I think when you're, when, what's helpful, what I love most about reading is when you are

able to name things, they kind of lose their fear. like the more you're able to understand in something and put a name on it the there's this sense of I don't know this wholeness that's created from it and so for me you know there's these different terms that I've come into my life you know like HSP highly sensitive person I'm a third culture kid T-CK someone that grows up in different countries when they're a kid and I have had these feelings and experiences and I've always been like damn I feel so alone in this. But I think, again, the naming of them,

it's actually, it creates this connective piece. It's like if there's a name to it, that means other people must feel this way or have had these experiences, which is like, whoa, I'm connected to them too. So gradually, I felt by uncovering parts of myself and learning about myself that way, I connect more to more of humanity

and what people have learned and the knowledge they can share. The HSP thing was probably the biggest one because I, my whole life, have played this tough guy. I know it may sound weird now talking to me, but I never used to cry. I never used to say I was hurting.

I never used to show any kind of pain. Again, in the environment I grew up in the system and also what it means to be a man in this world. you just don't show it. And I prided myself on being this athlete and this like leader and this businessman and, you know, all these different labels of what it means to be a man when I was dying inside. So it's hilarious. It's like, what are you actually?

What are you actually? And so when my girlfriend, ex-girlfriend said me that it was a first a, what the f is she like trying to mess with me? because we broke up. Like, what is this? It's like, hey, loser, you're sensitive. But no, it was the greatest gift. You're way more sensitive than you think. And one of the things I, like the analogy I love that Gabor uses where like if you're

touching the shoulder of someone, like if I touch your shoulder now, how does it feel? What about if you have a burn? Like, how does it feel now? And so if you're sensitive, you just feel it so much more intensely. Another one is I'm really affected by noise. like loud noises, like cars or whatever. And I was at my friend's place last year. And I had these like really like silent windows.

And I would go to bed and it'd be perfect. And as soon as I'd open the window, it would be like raucous. It was in Copenhagen, like the middle of the city. And you would just hear the noise of the streets below. And I was like sensitivity is that the noise comes in. Like the, the raucous comes in, and you, it's really fucking hard to not let it. And you need so many tools to not let it affect you. And then, you know, once I understood it, I understood that I had it.

It just kept, like, happening more more, more people pointed out. Like, Jim, like my stillness coach, kind of looked at me one day. And I hadn't brought this up to him. But after one of our sessions, he was like, Matt, I'm going to tell you something. It's like, you're one of the most sensitive people I've ever met. And I was like, fuck, dude. Why can't I be a little, damn it. It's just so exhausting being sensitive.

And I realized at the same time, the reason I was able to connect with so many people through yes theory, to our community, to our audience, because I really care because I can't help it. And because I do see the world and the issues in it and feel that I have to do something. I have to stand for something. If I don't, I feel worse. The problem was for most of my life, I was rushing into the battlefield without any armor, without any tools, without any sense of like, how do I care for myself in this process? Now that I know that I'm sensitive, now that I've built this skill set of, you know, building what I built,

I feel like the next phase of my life I'll be able to enter it still build still make impacts to lead but know what I what's required for me to not burn out

to stay good to stay aligned and ultimately realizing it's the greatest superpower of all time I will pick up on things that seems so obvious to me almost like sometimes

I meet engineers and like what language are you guys talking about they get it so easily. For me, it's like it's more of an emotional thing. Or like even this voice that comes very clear to me. I know that comes from my sensitivity. Like I don't know if people like I've talked to other people in recovery groups and they,

a lot of them don't necessarily have like this whisper that they can really pick up on. And I think that whisper is a sensitive trait. So yeah, dude. I mean, now it's all very recent for me. I'm still learning how to adjust to being sensitive. but there is something cool about being a sensitive dude. My girlfriend is not used to having a sensitive boyfriend. She is very much getting used to having to talk about feelings with her partner.

And I think there's something really valuable, like you said, with my friends that I can also provide is like I can see parts of them very clearly that they may not be able to see. And I think that's also the greatest gift I can give to someone. It's like, hey, you have this. You're not picking up on it, but my freaking brain is on fire right now, and I've got to tell you. So, yeah, I think as I get older, it'll be better and better. Yeah, more refined, more context.

It's like that our greatest challenges often reveal those superpowers that we have within, the gift that comes through of your sensitivity. the greatest artists are usually the most sensitive, you know. And so I'm excited to go into and just see your path unfold of what that sensitivity contributes to the next, you know, art or whatever it manifests as of what you create next in your life. But it came through those incredibly uncomfortable moments. And yeah, it's just another source of inspiration and reminder for people, you know, as much as we joke of like, you should create something called no theory, bro.

You've heard it a million times. the you know part of yes theory and just saying yes to life and saying yes of what comes your way is whenever you say yes to something you're also saying no to many other things you could be doing and so you really had to say no to everything yet you were doing to fully say yes to addressing what was unreconciled within you so i think it's a powerful reminder for people as well to to realize and and to honor those nos because until you can say no then you can say no then you your yes really has no value. You know, and look at you jumping off social media or these things that maybe seem novel

to certain people, but that has huge ripples on your life, man, not constantly check in, you know, your socials and especially when you're so in that world, that's a big pattern interrupt. For sure, dude. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. Another big thing in terms of just saying, you know, no, is you had to turn down so many things

to be able to really focus on the book. I've seen you so many times over the past year to, like, completely. completely feeling beaten by the prospect of having to finish this book, which is like a baby you're birthing into the world. And we say the name, it's talk to strangers, right? But don't is crossed out. A little cheeky little cheeky little. Don't talk to strangers. Talk to strangers. Talk to strangers. Awesome things will happen. Yeah. But I've seen you so many periods like really ready to embrace this new part of your, in chapter of your life, but not fully having reconciled and like completed the previous and like kind of stuck in between both these worlds. And I've seen,

that as well. So yeah, anything else you want to share of just the level of commitment that you've had to had in writing this book. And I know many times you just wanted to throw your hands up in the air and say, F this, I'm done. Yeah. I mean, I did an Iron Man. And I've talked about it so much to our community because, were you good? What's going on with your neck? Oh yeah, I got a a grassden thing. It looks like I have Hickney's a little. Wow. That's why Dravey wears Turt Nikes.

That's why I'm wearing a Turtleneck on today's podcast. My body worker. Yeah, yeah. Totally. Totally. Body worker. Right. All right.

Actually, though. The metal tool they like scrape her tissue with. Totally, totally. He's good. Anyways. Hmm. Where was that? Yeah, I mean, I did an iron man, which is a really intense triathlon.

And I had this whole thing where I thought it was impossible, trained for seven months with Aaron, who was, I mean, all this sounds. Yeah, it sounds like a so random when I put it like this. But I had this, like, professional trainer taking me through these seven months of training to this impossible race. to hit an impossible time of under 12 hours. And I ended up doing it, training, and I would train for, like, it was like I've never felt so depleted in my whole life. Like I would have to train sometimes six hours a day, you know, just where I would bike for five, run for one. I would get up at like five every morning to go swim. I would have to, my diet was all over the,

I'd have to eat so much. I feel so bloated a lot of the time. Doing an Ironman, doing these triathlon, these like running kinds of races, I had the expectation that you get jacked, like that you just get huge because you're getting so strong. The bottom half of my body, like my legs doubled in size,

but my arms were the flabies as they've, ever been. So it was kind of demoralizing as well. Like I'm training so hard and I'm, I feel like flabby. So anyways, that was like burnout central. Not only for me, for Aaron, too, we were dying, training for this thing, but we eventually did the Iron Man. I eventually pulled through and got my dream time of 11 hours and 58 minutes, so two minutes under what I wanted, which was like a pivotal moment in my life. That shit was hard. Starting to write a book sounds cool and fun and easy-ish.

Everybody wants to write a book. Everybody wants to be a New York Times bestseller, write a memoir, changed millions of lives. I was like, take me a year. Take me a year, and then after you'll be, you know, I'll sell it, leave yes theory, start a new life. A little did I know, writing a book is like 10 times an Iron Man. And I don't say that lightly. Like, especially I think if it's a memoir, if you have to dissect your own life and give kernels of wisdom or tell stories or connect the dots between the stories or any of it and write something that makes sense, it just takes it out of you.

And thankfully, the guys let me step away and work on it. They were really kind about me just having space for as long as I needed to write this book. And it ended up taking me, I was hoping to do it in like six months and then publish it and then be done within a year. And now it's coming up on three. So I started writing it when I, like, yeah, I was 28 when I started and I'll be 31 by the time it comes out. So I think I had this like deep hate for it. I started to really hate it, really start to present it as a thing. I was just projecting all my shit onto it.

Almost like I was forming a relationship with this thing on Google Docs. And I think the reason I hated it so much was because I was scared to leave. And I knew as soon as this thing came out that I would be leaving. And so almost subconsciously I was like, finding ways to just like not do it you know just not do it not do it not do it um i think this is part of the thing like i you know the how we started where it was like the you can't really see the painting when you're in it and this is one of those cases i i haven't even held the book yet you've held it i haven't even held it yet um because i want to wait till the final

version is done so that I can hold it. And I can't know right now what that book is going to do for me or how it's going to change my life in the future. But I will say the pride that I feel in having completed it. Even the fact that it's readable is astonishing to me. Like I can't believe, like if you saw these first drafts, I was like, this is, I don't even, nobody's going to read this. I'm going to show this to my friends and they're going to be like, bro, what the fuck are you on? And now, like, just getting the feedback and just hearing about how like these different moments in it really, you know, hit people and like how it's made them think more about what they want out of life. So I'm already starting to feel it. You know,

I'm starting to feel the impact that it's having, especially for people who under, like, who have been a part of the yes theory, the community, but also anybody I think that's wanting to build anything while also finding their truth. So there is a level of like kind of like we've been talking about with the men's group and these different things. It's like ultimately this thing wasn't even me. By the end, it just like the stories that need to be in it were in it. And it felt more and more like I was giving it away, you know, and it was less about me and more about like how it would help people. But I got to be very honest, I am like so excited for November 19th. I don't think I have ever looked more forward to a date in my whole entire life, not even Christmas as a kid.

Like this is both nerve-wracking and exciting, but I like, it's the finish line. And when I crossed the finish line for the Iron Man, I collapsed and instantly felt my life change. And I feel like that date for me is the Iron Man times 10. And crossing it will be, yeah, the most pivotal, probably the most pivotal moment of my life. Just being able to see the behind the scenes and then also now getting to read the final product. And it is very readable. It's so enjoyable to read. And I loved it so much. It's like, you know, it's like a movie in your head. It was like in between like a novel and a biography of how it all happened because it feels unreal at times the serendipitous synchronistic moments that happened of these three dudes or four dudes starting out

you know in their 20s with this dream and then the universe like just aligning in so many incredible ways and the power of putting yourself out there of meeting strangers of having those conversations of doing the difficult things it's such an inspiring thing for i feel like our whole generation and so many people have looked up to you and the whole squad. It's just, it's such a cool thing. And now you always get to have that also to like look back on. And that's an incredible representation of the journey of it all, which is, which is great. But I could imagine how painful it might be as you're ready to embrace this new chapter of your life. And for two and a half years, you're stuck reliving every single moment, you know. And of course,

there's so many incredible, beautiful moments to reflect on, but like to only be focused on that one thing and rewriting and rewriting the same story over and over again. It's like, man, kudos to you for making it happen. Congratulations. Thanks, man. You deserve a cupcake. Seek discomfort, baby. Yeah. Ultimate. Yeah. Yeah, dude, thanks for saying that. I mean, really means a lot. And again, I mean, your support throughout the process has been unreal. Like, you've been such a freaking good friend, dude.

Thanks, man. Throughout. And excited for your book down the line that you're going to release, that you're going to write. Some point. I mean, let's just say some of it's already written. Yeah. Yeah. All in due time.

You know, I think it's been powerful for me to also witness and for you, just the power of community. and having the men's group and the brotherhood is one thing, but then also just friends and people that can support you along the process of the emotional marathon that comes with the physical pursuit of writing a book or a physical marathon or whatever it is is super important. So is there anything else you want to share about the power of community and friendship and how that's been supported for the whole process? Yeah, my dad grew up in Puerto Rico.

And as a family, every Christmas we would go and spend time in Puerto Rico. and I've lived there for several months at a time. You and I traveled around Puerto Rico. That was fun. And there's a spirit on that island, like an energy that is unlike anything I've ever seen in all the places that I've ever traveled to. And to give you an example,

I was traveling from Europe recently about a month ago, and I flew through Madrid, and I was flying to Puerto Rico to see my grandpa. and in Madrid I landed connected in the airport and I'm walking through this like giant hall you know to my gate and I hear drumming I hear and touch fuck is going on like all the gates I'm passing are quiet everybody's on their phones computers eating not talking to each other reading whatever and I get closer to this gate and there are about a hundred Puerto Rican kids and dressed

like they're all wearing the flag of Puerto Rico on their shirts and they're all just dancing and singing together. I couldn't believe it, dude. I was like, this place, that's it. I get on my flight. Every time you land in Puerto Rico, everybody claps. It's one of the only planes that I'm ever in

where everybody on a plane claps and it's like, and then I land. And I get out of the plane and I go down. the stairs and I see a sea, a sea of people. It is like the entire Puerto Rican citizenship has showed up at this airport for those kids that were just dancing and singing who had done like a youth day in Spain or like a youth week or something. Like their parents, cousins, everybody is showing up with them. And I remember just looking at it like the sense of community, the sense of love between these people.

And I was like, this is what's missing in the world. Like showing up for each other. Like picking you up at the airport. Community and love and strong relationships are based off inconvenience. It builds off inconvenience. I show up for you when it's inconvenient for me. It's easy to show up when it's convenient. Everybody can.

I've done all the work I needed today. blah blah, blah, let's hang out now. But, you know, if a friend is struggling or if something's happening, that's unusual. And, like, you need to show up. And you do, that bond builds, the trust builds. And that is literally who we are. We are built to connect like this. And nowadays, we fucking hate inconvenience.

Everything's convenient. We love Uber. Uber eats. We love the freaking Instacart. We love having access to. You don't need that support. Everything is on your phone. And so I think what makes, what has made the Yes Theory community,

my friendship with Amara Thomas and my brother, all these people, like that, what we created, the seeds of that are very similar to the seeds I see in the men's group. They're different because this was a business and, you know, we had to make a living doing this so that it's difficult, you know, it's not just like a brotherhood. It's also a business partnership. But in both, I've seen the strength of the groups, strengthened through inconvenience where one of us falls down and everybody stops what they're doing, the plans they had, they're like, yo, we got you. And we're going to, we're not, going anywhere. Like we say that line to each other. Not going anywhere. Not going anywhere.

And I think it also is very indicative of like be very intentional about who you surround yourself with because you don't want to inconvenience yourself for everybody. You'll lose your mind. But if there are people that you genuinely care about, genuinely trust, genuinely respect that you want in your life, that relationship is going to grow through inconvenience. And so I am very grateful for the men in the group because that's what they've shown to me. And so I would say now, you know, with the world, you know, we have so many people that I've, I mean, I can't even tell you how many emails, messages, whatever I've gotten from people expressing their loneliness, sharing how brutally lonely they are. because of these isolated technologies that we use. I think that that is a major culprit.

Regardless of what it is, it exists. We're very lonely right now. And I do think the way out of that loneliness is, again, the unfamiliar. Like, go towards what your heart is saying. Go towards the inconvenient. Go towards the thing that's like not a habit. like go towards showing up for that person, even though you,

that you like kind of know, but just reaching out and saying like, hey, I got you, you know, instead of scrolling. Like, scrolling is the easy option.

And so, yeah, I think I'm just excited to, to keep showing up when it's inconvenient. I think that's the biggest thing. And then, yeah,

how others do the same for me. It's such a big part of being a healthy human that we just totally neglect, you know, community is immunity in so many different ways. I've never heard that like that. Yeah, well, one day, one day you'll be as smart as you. God. You're so smart. I don't know where I heard that, but it rings true to me, man.

I think you should post it on Instagram and you should say, Andre Decliffe. I'll take it right for that one. Inevitably in life, we're going to go through these challenging moments and experiences and having individuals to, you know, it's like you're going through something challenging when you have somebody that's supporting you through it it makes it feel like it's totally possible you know and so who has been that for you in your life i'm curious uh without a doubt i mean that this group the group the guys has been you know the most powerful and you know supported for that for sure and i've been blessed to have incredible mentors and you know individuals along my whole journey that saw more me than i saw myself in the time um starting at like 15 really

Yeah. You had a mentor when you're 15? I mean, kind of. I started this business marketing kind of group at the time. And there was a couple guys, one, this guy Matt and this other guy, Luke, who were like a few years older than me. And I was kind of hung out with older kids when I was young. But, you know, I expressed my desire to like to, you know, go down the path that they were kind of going. They took me under their wing in many ways.

Another guy I met when I was 19 who was like a descendant monk. and really opened my eyes up to so many different things. Even Logan, like when that whole chapter, like just kind of met him and like, yeah, we kicked it off and, you know, we vibe for sure. But then moving in with him and, you know, very much so kind of doing a lot of life together and traveling and shooting and all the things was big. Do you feel like that was a mentor kind of relationship? In many, in different ways. I think each person and each mentor filled different buckets of inspiration and encouragement and whatnot. Logan just definitely remind me.

And when you're around somebody, no matter who they are, their energy rubs off on you. And also their beliefs. One thing that's just about him is his self-belief is infectious. Like the commitment of just anything is possible and I'm capable of anything and to do it different and to follow what, you know, path you want to blaze. Super inspiring to see somebody playing that big in the early 20s was just super. Because you were, are you around his? age? Two years younger. Two years younger. Yeah. And do you feel like that

when you say it's infectious, do you feel like it really stuck with you? For sure. And then also just by virtue of being in it, you know, and like launching the podcast with him and like seeing a lot of like humbling moments on and off camera. There's just something about that when it opens your eyes up to, I don't know, we petastole success and achievement and celebrity and all these things kind of off into the future like on this big pedestal and to normalize it in an easeful way of just like everyone's human at

the day and they have their own basic needs and I think it's easier to play at that level when you feel that intrinsically so yeah and it can be intimidating right to be around that kind of energy sure the bigness of it and I think that's part of the I mean the intimidation factor of this group is you've got some some heavy hitters and so yeah we do And if you feel like, you know, if you've got these insecurities you're working through, they'll definitely come up around that kind of energy. And so I'm actually, I'm still curious on the Logan thing because this is something, I don't know if people who are even listening to this even know your full background, but you work with Logan Paul for how many years? I lived with him for like two. For two.

And you were in charge of the podcast and filming and a lot of it. And I met, that's how we met, was through Logan. And I was always so curious I was like, how is a guy like Logan surrounding himself with a guy like Andre or Spencer or just, you know, vegan, spiritual, like,

meditate three hours a day. It's like it felt like I couldn't put it together. Yeah. But then honestly, as I got to, it's really interesting, like getting to know Logan a little better. And even like, you know, he's helped us out with some stuff as well.

it's like, yeah, I started to see like his heart as well. Like he has a really beautiful heart. And I think on social media, obviously he has to play this big, you know, character. And he's like, this incredible marketer. But I could really sense why you spend time with him, you know, and work with him. And I agree on the like surrounding yourself with that kind of energy. And it's like, it's, if you are staying. with people who are cool with how things are, that's great.

You're not going to, those insecurities aren't going to come up or whatever. But if you're constantly challenged by their bigness and your own, that's a relationship you want to stay in. And I, you know, for Amar for me, for example, was that, like, the way Amar thinks is fucking, like, I've never met anybody that thinks on the level of the insanity of ideas. even just the other day we were in Amsterdam together and he's spitballing ideas left

and right I'm like dude it's like the most incredible idea I've ever heard why like what do yeah so I think yeah throughout my life I think I've been really grateful for those figures yeah dude and I think it's just

the the bigness will forever be limited if you're not willing to go in words as well you know I think that's that's the key Yeah, and like surround yourself and expose yourself to different viewpoints in life. And I think I have a part of me that is very much how Logan is perceived in the light. And Logan has a part of him that's not perceived on camera.

That is a big part of how I show up in my light. Like there's a curiosity and like childlike curiosity and humility and heart that many people don't see of him off camera. most people see the crazy, expressive, you know, playful kid and all of that. And then most people see me as this like meditative dude. But like I'm also like I also just love frick to freaking play around and like, you know, let lose. And also I think we both have had that thing like just in childhood of, oh dude, it was such a shithead and troublemaker growing up. It's so crazy to even think about that. What does that even mean? What were you doing?

Just like getting in the prison, like getting in detention in principal's office like all the time and like, you know, we would just, I don't know if it was just kind of bored and not as challenge as much, but I would always hang around the kids who get in trouble more. That's hilarious. So we resented on that thread. But yeah, I don't know how we got in this tangent. But it's just a, it's a cool thing to surround yourself and expose yourself with people that challenge you to think differently, to believe bigger and all that. When did you stop being shithead? How old were you? I'm still a shithead, dude.

Yeah. It's true. People were enough. Probably, like, when I got into high school, like, freshman year, after freshman year, I, like, straightened out more. Did anything prompted or it was just? Probably. Probably.

I remember in eighth grade, I was in the principal's office because my friends and I would do, like, we would go in the bathroom during breaks and just fight each other. What? I know. It's, like, so often. Wait, fist fight? Yeah, we were, like, we'd have, like, tournaments and we'd, like, fight. No way, dude.

And I think somehow I got recorded and the assistant principal just stormed into my history class one day. And just like, Andre, come now. And everyone was like, oh, shit. And my mom got called in and she slapped me in front of the principal. Oh, my God, dude. Yeah, I never talked about that. It was funny. Wow.

Yeah. And, uh, damn. Yeah, that was the thing. I mean, my mom is like the most caring, loving human ever. And that was like a tough love moment for sure, you know? You needed it? And yeah, I think I did because very much so. I just realized that like I just realized who I wanted to be in life and that direction wasn't it.

So. I mean, that's pretty early to realize that because I was kind of a shithead throughout high school. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I definitely had my shithead moments, you know. Yeah, continued after. Continue to do that. But what's honestly really fascinating about you is you never went to college.

Yeah, you finished high school and then join these marketing guys. Yeah, and I went to college for like, it was maybe a quarter of one semester. And I just, I was like, I can't. I know what I want to do. And this is just literally not, not it. What did you want to do? How did you know? Well, I mean, I was just a part of a group of guys.

You know, I actually also similar, like, in different ways. but we were super focused on our business and affiliate marketing and everything at the time. And then I knew I was traveling to Tony Robbins conferences and reading Bob Proctor and really focused on that personal development side of thing. So I'd never gave up my curiosity and insatiable urge to learn and read and stuff like that. I just knew that taking calculus again was not going to actually serve me and how I wanted to show up in the world. So, you know. Good call, dude.

Big, yeah, helpful to have that awareness. sure. Is there any part of you that regrets that? Not a single part of me. Really? I don't know. Nice. Definitely not. Damn it. Well, it's also interesting because you're, I mean, I'm five years older than you, but I feel like you're very much my age, which like you said, you've hung out with older people your whole life. But I, even, you know, you put together this group and like, I think there's just this level of, you know, you have this podcast at this age. You have this podcast and company. that's crushing it, Iraqi media, and like, you're doing all these things and you're only 26. And I think about myself, you know, when we met, like, the age that you were versus what I was doing at that age.

And I think those four years in college, as much as that needed them, and they were helpful to just kind of like rebalance. It's like, damn, dude. like if you're able to know at an early age what you want and not take the four-year path for university that is like I mean that compounds you know that is a huge huge huge advantage and I think you know university can be an incredible networking thing and you know oftentimes you learn what you want by virtue of what you don't want and so it's important for some people and I was very grateful to not have I mean My mom definitely did want me to go to school and pursue college more. But she also trusted me in a good way, which I think helps a lot.

I know so many people are pressured by their families, especially people that are ethnic. Like, you know, if you're Arabic or you're Indian, you know, and you don't become a doctor, or lawyer, engineer, you're basically just a failure. So I'm very grateful that I had, you know, more spaciousness to explore myself and just prove my own stability that I can make it on my own, you know, which I remember. parent just wants their kids to be able to survive and thrive in their own world. Was there a moment for you where after you'd made the decision, kind of like we talked about earlier, like when you make your decision and you focus, was there a moment for you where you

were like, oh shit, like my life is going to look way different than most people? After making a decision? Yeah, probably, I mean, I knew it at 15, 16, when I was. I would show up in this business and my teachers made a joke in front of the whole class and like everyone laughed about in. They even like somebody made a joke and like the school play about it. It was like this, it was like selling these like healthy energy drinks and like vitamin supplements and different things and like building this team around it. And so I'd get a lot of shit for it just because it's so foreign for most people. And I just realized that in life you had to

take advice from people who have what you want. And the teachers and people that I was, you know, that were giving me shit definitely didn't have that. So. I would say that. And then also silent meditation retreats, like that just opens you up to a whole new level, I feel like. Really? That's one of the, I mean, I say that. Yeah.

Like, I'm not that surprised that it is, but I'm surprised that that's one of the bigger ones that really did it. Did something come up during the silent meditation that transformed you? Oh, for sure, man. I think a lot of it is also like we spoke to. You can't see the picture while you're in the frame. So you don't realize what's unfolding or transpiring fully while you're in it, but there's a level of self-awareness that grows inevitably in like a silent meditation

retreat that becomes the conduit and makes you really capable of so much growth and moving in different directions than you otherwise wouldn't have. So, I mean, that's got to be the biggest, man. Having just listening and discovering that intuitive voice and knowing what you truly want and not moving from a place of desperation, but more inspiration. It just will put you in two different spots, you know, in life. Damn. So, so yeah, man. But I've seen that similarly in your whole journey,

especially reading the book and getting to see some of the nuance that I didn't even know. Man, there's just so much power in claiming who you want to be choosing that. And one thing that I did want to touch on in this podcast because it's very much so in the ethos of who you're becoming. is the name change, you know, because that's something that when people read the book, most people are familiar with Matt Dahlia is blooming. Yeah. So give the context you need, man, but, you know, as you release this book, November 19th comes,

you're claiming who you want to be in this different chapter. And this idea for changing your last name came about because... Hmm. Oh, man, that's the first time addressing this one. whatever you do, just don't fuck it up. Don't what? Don't fuck it up. Yeah, don't fuck it up.

Just don't say the wrong thing. Everyone's going to hate you. I got it. I got it. I'm sorry. All right. Forgive me if this is going to come out a little all over the place, but I'm going to give you the full truth. And it's going to be hard.

But I feel like it's important for me to talk about it out loud. Hmm. When I was born, my dad has three sisters. So when I was born, my dad went to my grandfather and it just goes, the first son to carry on the name is born. From what I've unheard, I wasn't there. So maybe it happened differently. But this is what I remember from that story. And then my last name, my family is like very tight.

Like we are a big family. big Puerto Rican family. And every Christmas I spent with all my cousins, all my aunts, all my uncles in Puerto Rico, you know, and we're the Da-Hirs. And it's really interesting that I even say that because it's spelled D-A-J-E-R. And in France, when I was growing up, before I moved, it's easy, it's D'Hare. But in America, when I moved to America at seven, Nobody knew how to pronounce my last name.

And I was never really taught how to pronounce it. So sometimes I would say, danger. Some people would call me Deher. Some people would call me Daher. And some people would say the most random shit. You know, like de year or whatever, I don't know. And so I always grew up with a sense of like, I don't even fully know how to pronounce my own name.

And I'm very, I love my family to death. and I like my grandfather like this person that I inherited this name from like I was just with him like I you know it's I'm so close to this to my lineage and while I was going through this beginning of the healing journey I I started to read Eckhart a lot and at the beginning of Eckhart Tolly's book, A New Earth, the first page is about flowers. It's about how I think a hundred million years ago flowers showed up on Earth. And at first it was one flower and then another one there. And he essentially uses this, the flower as this metaphor for, or he's this analogy.

for how the awakening of humanity is first happen slowly with individuals, you know, here and there around the world, but gradually builds and builds and gains in strength and momentum and grows into, you know,

a worldwide thing. That book changed everything for me. That book is just, I mean, I could read that book a million times. And after reading it, I hadn't, I didn't think much of, you know, would come up here and there about the flower thing, but I didn't think much of it. But in my recovery program. And also, can you give a little context for that? Because most people are familiar with recovery with like alcohol. Yeah. And stuff. Recovery and how you're speaking to it is more. It's more of people who are affected by. It's like people who come from. It's hard to say this. because like not to generalize where I come from but from like dysfunction or from like you know chaotic trauma and environments patterns yeah and so it's a lot of people who you know I mean I have alcoholism in my family and so not directly but court and they say it's a family

disease so it affects everybody and so I was affected in my own way not I mean I don't drink or anything. I'm not addicted to anything, but it's more of, again, I'm addicted to the control. Because when it's chaotic, the only thing you want to do is control. And so, yeah, in this recovery group, I got a sponsor, so something like a mentor, essentially, who could guide me through the steps. And one of the things that he would do often is send me pictures of flowers. He would always send me flowers. And his favorite flower was the Dahlia. so he would send me dahlias all the time. He had a room in his house framed

of framed photos of only dahlias covering the walls. If you've never seen a dollia, I mean, they're just, I've never seen a more gorgeous flower. And so I started to get really into flowers. Like, if you go to the Getty Museum here in L.A., the freaking flowers are unbelievable.

I had a whole day just staring at Dalias at the Getty Museum. And... I remember, I think I saw, sent you there for like your artist there or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, you told me about the flowers. Did you? The Getty? Yeah, I mean, the Getty, but did you tell me about the... I don't know. I just told you it was in a really incredible place. You probably discovered that. Yeah. But anyway, so I'm getting really into flowers and having this whole thing. And at one point, I

I'm feeling myself changed so damn much. And a name... hold so much, you know, like my, I felt like my past was held in that name. Daher. I felt like all the things that, like, so many of the values that were difficult to accept were held in that name. And the name started to feel less and less aligned. But I also didn't feel like I didn't want to reject my family because there is so much love and so much good from it.

So I was torn. I was like, I want to, you know, I want to evolve. I want to change. But I also don't know how to, like, not hurt my family. And then one day on a run in Joshua Tree, about 30 minutes. And I was like, holy shit. Like, how do you spell Dahlia? D-A-H-L-I-A.

My original name is, ancestral name is Dahar, D-H-E-R. So it felt like all these different things, like the Eckhart thing about how. how this analogy for the awakening is through flowers and how my sponsor is sending me these flowers and how my name is so similar to this flower. I was like, whoa, this really feels like me. And so I had to really sit on that for a while before fucking telling anybody I was going to change my name, dude,

because I'm like, oh God, if this is real. But again, the freaking voice, as soon as it happened, that voice was so clear again into the unfamiliar again into the the parts that my mind would have never done and yeah that was about

almost two years ago and so it's been this whole process of first accepting it then telling close people in my life about it then take an action to legally change my name which is a whole process and to then now

telling our community and audience and these people have followed us for a long time, be like, hey, I know this is fucking weird. I know I'm like, I've been away for three years and I'm coming back with a freaking new name. But it's true for me. I haven't lost my mind, at least not yet. So this is very aligned. And I hope you'll accept me. I hope you'll understand. I hope nobody I love will be offended. and also I'm just freaking excited because I love that as the last name. To me, it feels like I get to have both. I get to have the foundation of where I come from with where I want to go.

And the reason just to bring it full circle back to Eckhart is, I don't think there is any other way for us as a species to survive without that evolution. And it's something that he talks about. It's something that a lot of people are starting to talk about, have talked about for a while, which is if we're going to continue

letting our mind run the show and our ego run the show, we're fucked, fully fucked. And the chaos I see in the world, again, with my sensitivity, and I mean, it's also just so obvious. You don't even have to be sensitive

to notice it, is also there's this like, equivalent thing happening on the other side, this thing that's never happened on this planet where a large number of people are starting to talk about consciousness, we're starting to talk about presence, awakening, are starting to talk about how to quiet down the noise,

get to the heart, connect, that we're not. separate. We are nature. These things that if repeated can feel cliche, but because they're true and so they get repeated. But it's a feeling. This podcast is a direct correlation to that movement. You are a leader of that movement. I don't think there will be one leader. You say this a lot. The samsara. Ticknat Han says the next Buddha is a sangha. Sanca, it's not samsara. Samsara is like the endless suffering wheel of completely different. But similar as a standard word. But yeah, the next Buddha is a collective people, not just one.

So that transition of realizing what your previous name, I guess really how it's or at least how you perceive it to be held like the war in your lineage and the trauma and well that i mean my family has a ton of trauma you know like on my french side there's like a ton of war war war war war two stuff like every single one of my ancestors fought in world war one my male ancestors of course nobody was able to had to have the tools to deal with it so again i i feel it in my body i feel that trauma in my body I've had to work on a lot of that. And on my dad's side, my great grandparents were persecuted out of Lebanon,

moved to Nicaragua because they were the wrong religion. And so I think in my family, there is a ton of love, but there is also a lot of hesitation to explore beyond the family, which is interesting why the book is also talked to strangers. It's not like my family doesn't have friends and stuff. I think there's just, like, family is everything. And I think I have this hesitation to ever say that. Like, family is everything.

Because there's something really tribal about that. And tribalism is the problem. Separation is the problem. If you think you're different or need to be protected, shielded by this group from the rest of the world, that's the problem. And you can be a Republican, you can be a Democrat, you can be whatever.

the second you become separate, the whole thing falls apart. And so the world, I think, needs people to step out of the family system and not reject their families, but just say like, hey, yes, family is a huge part of my life, but all of this is. This is the family. This earth is home. For me, because I moved as a kid, I don't have this identity to a place. so I don't necessarily feel tied to a country.

I feel tied to this earth. I think that's one of the privileges that I get from, you know, being a third culture kid. And I recognize that a lot of these thoughts are from my own experience, that, you know, people from different upbrings and places are going to not necessarily agree, but for me, yeah, the problems I see can be rooted down to separation and tribalism. And if we can just have enough individuals brave enough to step out of that,

to question it, to not judge the other, then I think we can create a new earth. Yeah. And so Dahlia really is a representation of that new earth for you, you know, that claim. Yeah. And incredible.

Is there anything else there that you have? wanted to on the name yeah just anything else uh honestly again thank you dude because i mean i've had to tell close friends of mine and it's almost like i feel like i mean i'm not going to compare it to this but i can imagine i can't even imagine but people who have been in the closet for a long time and you know come out and you know they want to like transition or let everybody know that they're you know that they're gay i think there's a you're like oh fuck how are people going to react like they've seen me as this one person my whole life. Like, what are they going to say when they find out that I'm actually this thing?

And so to have friends like you who immediately, like there was no sense of like, what the fuck? Like, whoa, cool. It's like, oh, nice. And then to add, not only that, but have, you know, I have you guys and so many close friends being like, you're Matt, fucking Dahlia. You are Matt Dahlia. So to have that all the time

just allows me to gain more confidence in my name. Yeah, beautiful, man. Yeah, dude. It feels like that is a representation of who you're deciding to be and how you want to show up on the planet. And so as we start to wrap up here, man,

I've been enjoying this whole thing. But in the end of your kind of goodbye video, you shared that beginnings always hide themselves and ends. And so I'm just curious, as you feel into this new beginning of what comes after the book, what texture quality has come into how you think about what maybe is next in store for you.

Play. One word. Play. Yeah. My kid, this inner kid, needs to run around and laugh and play. I've been very, very serious for a lot of my life, and I'm excited to not be. Yeah, travel, explore my curiosity, learn more about what I want. And ultimately, eventually, definitely come back to a place where I can make, I can use my gifts and service to all of this, you know, continue to make as much impact as possible.

But yeah, a lot of play. And that's going to involve, you know, we're going to have some good times. Yeah, some good hangs. Travels. I mean, bro, you're like the goofiest kid ever. Matt's always picking up the guitar freestyle and singing random songs, making everyone laugh. Dude, I was thinking, because you had Rai X play. Uh-huh.

Is that how you say it, Rai X? Yeah, Rai X. Rai X. That I should do the same thing. You should, bro. Sing us home, dude. So good. Matt's got a good voice.

People don't know. So for everyone that wants to read the book, we'll leave a link down in this description that can pre-order, check out the book called Talk to Stranger's Details, the whole journey of you embarking on this incredible journey with your friends. So inspiring, man. Is there anything else you want to share in regards to that? No, no, that's perfect. Yeah, the link is yes, theorybook.com. That's it. Amazing. Yeah, dude. So good. Thanks for supporting, bro. Yeah, grateful. And love you, man. Thanks for coming on and all the vulnerable shares and all of it. And yeah, I think this is, it's just an empowering, such an empowering,

reminder and you are such an empowering and assuring force, I think, for so many people to be inspired to go after their dreams and to face the parts of themselves that are holding them back from that and everything in between. So thank you, bro. Thanks, dude. Same for you. Yeah. Inspire me so much.

Thank you, bro. And for everybody that's been tuning into this wild episode of the Know They Self podcast, let us know what felt transformative what was insightful what really landed and hit home for you and this is my favorite thing ever so thanks for coming on this journey and until next time do well to care yourself