Know Thyself - E84 - Paramahamsa Vishwananda: The 3 Paths of Spiritual Purification To Go From Your HEAD To Your HEART

Episode Date: February 20, 2024

On this episode of Know Thyself Podcast we are joined by Paramahamsa Vishwananda, for an intriguing conversation on the reality of self realization, samadhi, and performing miracles. He shares his story of awakening at a young age, revealing the divine interactions with Mahavatar Babaji that shaped his life forever. He reveals what lies at the heart of humanity's search for happiness, and how we can make every day heaven on Earth. He discusses the truth about being a guru: from spiritual ego, experiencing anger, and the importance of the guru. Andre and Paramahamsa Vishwananda also discuss achieving harmony in romantic relationships, aligning ourselves to the will of the Divine, and finding your own unique path of self realization. André's Book Recommendations: https://www.knowthyself.one/books ___________ Timecodes: 0:00 Intro 1:38 Humanity's Search for Happiness 5:27 Self Realization & Exploring the True Nature of Self  8:06 Shift from the Mind to the Heart 16:01 Parmanhansa’s Spiritual Lineage 19:47 The Journey of Our Souls' Awakening 24:46 What Comes After Self-Realization & Making Paradise Here and Now 27:58 Childhood Awakening through Mahavatar Babaji 39:33 Who Mahavatar Babaji Is 40:54 Discernment on the Spiritual Path 43:49 Experiencing Samadhi & Cosmic Consciousness 48:37 Being Initiated into Kriya Yoga 49:50 Becoming a Guru & Performing Miracles 52:47 Navigating Ego Traps as a Guru 54:06 The Role of a Guru  55:15 Do you Experience Anger? 57:37 Devoting Ourselves to Something Greater 59:55 Balance of Effort and Grace 1:02:03 Achieving Fearlessness on the Spiritual Path 1:05:01 The Spiritual Ego's Slippery Slope 1:08:36 Divine Design: The Greater Plan of Consciousness 1:10:57 Yogic Lineages: What Draws Us to Certain Paths 1:18:49 Romantic Relationships on the Spiritual Path 1:21:25 Conclusion ___________ Paramahamsa Vishwananda is the founder of the international organisation known as ‘Bhakti Marga’, which means the ‘path of devotion’. It is through Love and with Love that Paramahamsa Vishwananda has inspired a global community to share His wisdom, teachings and spiritual practices with the world. All of Bhakti Marga’s efforts and offerings are dedicated to supporting His mission of awakening bhakti in everyone to live a life of devotion to God. Website: https://paramahamsavishwananda.com ___________ Looking to Start a Podcast? Podcasting Course: https://www.podcastpurpose.com/ Know Thyself Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/knowthyself/ Website: https://www.knowthyself.one Clips Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJ4wglCWTJeWQC0exBalgKg Listen to all episodes on Audio:  Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4FSiemtvZrWesGtO2MqTZ4?si=d389c8dee8fa4026 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/know-thyself/id1633725927 André Duqum Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andreduqum/ Meraki Media https://merakimedia.com https://www.instagram.com/merakimedia/

People think that life just happened random. It can't be random. At the age of 14, I experienced something that changed my life itself. You sat down to meditate and you left your body for three days. I was in the state of samadhi. And what was your experience as you were... Ah. Really?

Before that, I heard about Mahatar Babaji. He bent down, look in my eyes. He revealed that all these times, it was only him. Everybody is searching for one thing, which is happiness. We think that something will make us happy. There is a part of us which is still not satisfied. And this is when your soul itself have that deep longing. I want to know.

Every day of your life, there's a golden moment. You have to make here your paradise. If you have not made here your paradise, what paradise are you aiming for? In everything that we do, we serve the divine. We find God in everything. We are not separate from God. wherever we are, the divine is with us. Everyone, welcome back to the Know Thyself podcast.

Today we have the privilege of sitting down with the founder of Bhakti Marga, an individual who is a spiritual teacher and leader, Parma Hansa Vishwananda. Pleasure to have you here. Yeah. Your mission is to open the heart of humanity. Yeah. I would love to dive into your story, how you originated here. But where I first want to start off is

I believe, and I've come to my understanding that there is a deeper fundamental longing and searching within the mind and heart of every human being that we label as often career relationship, these different manifestations in the material world. So I just want to ask you, what do you feel that we are fundamentally searching for? What is the deeper longing? Actually, everybody is searching for one thing, which is happiness. And happiness have different level. Some look for happiness into the matter of world. Some look at it in relationship. Some look for happiness in spirituality.

So fundamentally, everybody's searching for to be happy. And there were like different kind of happiness, different ways to be happy. Why does it seem to elude us so much? Why are so many people not happy? We want things too quick. We look for happiness, but we want it very quickly. And we are very impatient with ourselves and with everything else. That's why we, even when we search for happiness, we don't achieve that happiness.

When you say the word happiness, what do you mean by that? Because I think a lot of people have different perceptions of what they think happiness means. It's true. You see, we look for happiness. happiness, very often we think that something will make us happy. But along the road we find out that there is no happiness into it. Our happiness disappeared. It was time.

We like to have something wonderful, yes, we enjoy it, and after sometimes that happiness fade away. So for me personally, when I'm talking about happiness, I'm talking about happiness, something which carries on. something that doesn't fade away. There's time, or with, let's say you're enjoying something

and then it fade away like that. Yeah, I feel that a lot of people get joy, like true happiness and joy mixed with pleasure. Like they mix the two because a lot of people say, well, a car makes me happy or, you know, a relationship. That's pleasure, actually. Right.

Yeah. So you're speaking to the deeper fundamental, there's like a fulfillment, there's like an imperman. Satisfaction. You have that deep satisfaction. Because you see, we may do so many things, but yet there is a part of us which is still not satisfied. And that is when that which is not satisfied, get satisfied, that's what I call, real happiness. Yeah, it feels there is a fundamental presupposition that we're trying to look for something infinite within the finite.

Well, the infinite is also in the finite. They are not separate. Because very often when we, especially on the spiritual path, we try to find that infinite separate from the finite, which is they are not separate. Yeah. They are together. So what have you found as what really brings and unlocks that true deep happiness

which lasts, where does one look for that in order for it to last? Actually, that happiness very often we try to, like I said earlier, we try to find it elsewhere, but in reality it's not elsewhere. It is in ourself and in things that we do, with which attitude we do things that also bring that happiness out. So this is the know-l-the-self podcast, and we love to do. into exploring what is the true nature of self, who am I, what is our purpose here, how can we be most effective stewards to serve the planet, and I think it's very much in

alignment with your mission of opening the hearts of humanity. Actually, this is a main question about spirituality, about knowing thyself. So what do you feel it means to really become self-actualized? Well, for Psychoaculture, it's every moment whatever we do, we do it with a certain consciousness, awareness that we are divine. Firstly, and that divinity can be also spread in everything that we do. But when we realize that, because that what bring, for me personally, what I'm talking about is what brings that happiness is when we are connected with the source of everything. And that when you actualize it and in your daily life itself, whatever you're doing,

you do it with a certain awareness of yes, that is also divine. So it's not separate. It's a powerful distinction to use the word self-realization because you're coming to discover something that's already there like you said the connection with the divine you're like you're realizing you already always have been but you come to see something that always has been

Yeah but the mind separate If like we are talking right now Yes there is a certain realization but you know about it But there is many people who know about it but they didn't realize it. Knowing and realizing is two different things. When you realize something that knowing disappeared. So it's like you said that when you are small, you grow up,

the youth disappeared make way to different stages of your life. So you were young, you become youth, then from youth, you become all age and so on. But all the experience of this, stay but you have transcend them so like that also throughout life you know whatever you have experienced you are transcending it I feel so much of our pain and suffering comes from our perceptions with the mind about the world and our problems and things and you speak very often about the shift from the mind to the heart and so I just love for you to share a little bit more about why that's

such a powerful shift in one's life and how to realize that. You see, we have done everything with the mind and we know very well. We're expert in it. But whatever we do with our mind, we are driven by the mind, it doesn't lead us to true happiness. It doesn't lead us to true contentment. So there must be something else. But beyond that, why some people are truly happy. no matter what

happen in their life there's still even if their life goes upside down there's happiness inside of them so personally

I think that is the way where the mind have shift you know have descent into the heart itself then the heart

just doesn't stay like that you know when we are talking about the physical heart we're talking about the spiritual heart you know which

keep opening. This is where love come. What is the nature of love? Very often people ask, what is the nature of love? What is love? Because it is something which is very mysterious. Everybody love, everybody talk about love. But what is that love?

Of course, religious would tell you, religion will tell you, yes, it is, love is God, that's it, point finish. But it can't just be that. There's more to love. more to love. That's why we see love is identified to God in a certain way. Because it transcends everything. It is unlimited.

When I come in contact with individuals who I feel live in their heart, there is a sense of freedom, you know? It's like the saying of being in the world but not of it. You're not attached to the external circumstance. Actually, you see, when it is with the mind, there's a lot of judgment, criticism and so on whenever you come to somebody which is very mind oriented

we think that yes that person knows everything so you close yourself you don't open up yourself because you know you will be criticized you know that person will judge you you know that yes they will see you in a

different negative way so you can't open up your heart to that person but when you come to somebody which heart is open, you're free. You let it flow. You know there's an acceptance also there. You know, there's without judgment. And there is this flow of love. It is just flowing naturally. So I think everybody listening has this experience probably daily where they feel judgments,

however big or small, whether labeling something as good, as bad, having attachment to certain circumstances wanting to go other way. It's a natural process of the mind. How do we really sink deeper into the heart so we can start to hold this and not start to think so dualistically? Dualistically is from the mind. We have a mind and whatever we do into the world, we do it with the mind. Naturally, there is good, there is bad, there is, but we should not attach to it. This is what make the difference is that when we start identifying to the judgment, whether it is good or not good. Both is judgment.

So when the moment our mind starts attaching itself to that, often I say if you judge something is good automatically you accept the bad. Whether you say it or not, you are accepting it. It is there. So to come to the point of the heart itself, it's not that you don't care, but you come to a point of the, yes, it is fine how it is. Something goes right in your way, it is fine, something doesn't go the way you want, it's also fine.

So you can find that both can lead you somewhere. There's a beautiful story. One master and his disciple they used to go on retreat and six months they will spend in their hut and six months they will spend in the forest. So on the way back when they were returning to their hut after being in the forest they saw the hut half of the hut was broken, the statue was gone. So the master, the disciples are complaining, saying, oh, sad, we have been meditating in the forest, we have been doing spiritual practice, how unfair from God to look at our heart. You know, he cannot protect our heart.

When he looked at the master, the master was on the floor, bowing down, say, thank you God, you know. You have, you know, you knew that we have not bath for six months, you know, we have not. I was wondering how this will be, you know, because of the smell, all this, you know. So you have make it so open now. So that is a natural AC. So for sure the disciple must be thinking, you know, something happened must go wrong with the master during the last retreat. So as they went in, you know, it was sleeping. and they're looking up, all the stars.

So all of a sudden, it starts forecast, and rain start falling. Again, the master was on his knees, thank you God, you know, you know better. So we didn't take shower, you send the shower down. So I'm very grateful about it. So the disciple look and said, What's wrong with you, master? It was broken.

You say thank you for that. And now it's raining, we are completely wet. You even say thank you for that. And then the Master said one thing, listen. I don't know if God really exists. I have never seen him. I don't know if he ever listen. But one thing that have brought me and kept me strong unto the path

is my attitude towards life. I take it in a positive way. And I find it wonderful, you know, when we learn to take things in a positive way in our life. We are more relaxed. We are not need to stress ourselves, you know, because stress doesn't solve the problem. It makes the problem worse.

And but sadly we see the world, you know, when there's a problem, there's people that attach themselves mostly to that problem. to the problem. They meditate upon the problem. And the problem get bigger. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, so much of our joy or suffering, I feel like as you're mentioning is our attitude,

our perception about whatever is happening. And one of the Vedante philosophies, the Vhda, the Vhda, which is more of the lineage, I believe that you studied, I would love for you to share a little bit about what that is in that perspective so we can dive into that understanding. Vashthita actually come from Shiraamanusatari. But it's compared to other form of Adventism.

And Vashita advata is that we are not separate from God. So wherever we are, the divine is with us. Because others say, okay, the formless aspect, the formless aspect, we are separate, everything is God. Vashista Advata said, no, we are part of him. And of course we have Dveta Dveta also, which is said, no, no, no. Everything is complete separation. So once there's no separation, part and complete separation.

So Vashishth Veda, we find that in everything that we do, we serve the divine. We find God in everything. He's not separated from us. We are part of him. I think more and more people are getting familiarized with non-dualism and Edveta teachings, which is amazing, but the distinction with the Vista Advaita is that there are some

distinctions in my understanding. Could you clarify a little bit what those are? This actually is a very long dispute. For centuries, actually, they all have been fighting with each another between the different school of philosophy. Because the Adventism, Advaita philosophy and the sister Adveter, you know,

we are right, you are wrong, you know. And actually nowadays it's different. Even if we go deeper into the philosophy point of view, how does it profit for people in nowadays society? So we can talk at length about Adventism and Shishhth Vedhā. So the difference is that from Shankara

who portrayed his philosophy was that everything is Brahman. Everything is only Brahman, nothing. You don't exist. Well, the Shihad Vita said, no. Everything is Brahman, but you are also

part of it. So you see the difference between the two. The moment you put something that it is, you are part of it. In that part there is a distinction between the two. Even if God preved everything but yet the nature of relating is different. How we relate to the divine, how we relate to people. Otherwise we just say yes everything is God and that's it. It's easy going. So this is then actually in short, the different about it. So I'd like to explore some of the philosophical understanding, but also as a Sat-Guru, it's more so your mystical experience in understanding and perception of life, right? So I would love to ask you from your own personal experience, some maybe more existential questions about life in reality,

not that we haven't already been, but some of these questions of like, Where did we come from before we were born and where did we go after we die? In your experience, what is the nature of those? My experience, you see, look, our journey, which our soul have journeyed, you know, it's a multitude of realities. It's not just life doesn't happen from one day to the other. Like people think about, you know, very often, especially in the West, people think that life just happened random.

It can't be random. it a journey, why some people come on the spiritual above, some people are not and it's far away, you don't even know when if they will even reach there. So this is a journey of life itself, to where we come from. There's a mystery of it. So in my belief, you know, we ever exist, we exist in the cosmic form. We are never separate from Him. So when we had our individual personality, when God wanted us to say go and experience the world,

because it is his creation, go and experience. So we came into existence. So of course the soul have journeyed into many parts, you know, like in the Shastra, in the scripture said 8.4 million species. until you come to the point of having a human body. So this human form is not just random. It's sacred. So that's why honoring that is also important. So after journey that how many times you have come to in a human form?

Many times. So it doesn't just the spiritualism just doesn't happen randomly, just appeared. I'll say, now I'm spiritual because everybody is spiritual. You know, the hurt mentality. No, it doesn't happen like that because something has to

awake inside of you. And this is when your Atma, your soul itself have that deep longing. I want to know because life can't be random. Very often I speak with people. They have this question since they were small.

But nobody was there to answer. answer the question. Because when we look at the world itself, they will not give you such an answer about it. So we come from a very long journey and that's what has bring us into that spiritual. That's why we have this deep longing for more, you know, which who will give us that grace to realize that?

That we call Crippa. We call it grace. So that's why when in our belief we said that when you have that deep longing the soul sent a message to the universe to God, you know. And God sent you where you have to be. Those levels, step by step, you will be carry on until you come to that point of complete realization of who you are true. You have a glimpse of who you are. And having a glimpse of you are it doesn't finish there. Because very often people say, okay, yes, I'm self-realized, that's it.

No, self-realized, just one step of it. We have to come to a point of God realization. And that we can't just say, yes, you know, by our own effort. We can try our best and do our sadan, do our spiritual practices, do whatever we do in a positive way, put all the right things in our life. But there is one more step, which come naturally. We become a magnet to attract that grace.

So you spoke to essentially how our origins is from this cosmic consciousness, individuating, experiencing potentially millions of different species to where we realize the sacredness of this human birth, where do you feel that we are going? The moment of self-realization, what is the path of what's after this human life? Like, where are we going to as a spirit soul?

This is a question which everybody asks. But actually, whoever have reached to that part, they have not come back to tell anybody about it. But we know it through experience which great sages and saints have experience because once we have entered into that blissful state of love, you have always compassion for others. The great sages and saints, they choose to be here.

Because very often we tell we hear, oh yes, let us be free. free. But freedom is also being here. You can be here and be liberated. They don't need to die and be in the other side to be liberated. So the sages and the saints, they choose to come and help humanity. So this is one thing which is very important. What is Vycunta? For me? Yes. Veykunta is whenever you experience a joy and happiness. You know, like I said, that joy and that happiness,

which is with God at all time. That is Vekunta. It is not that you have to reach to a place once you die, then you go to the loka of Mahavishnu, that we call Veykunta. For me personally is here. You have to make here very counter first thing. You have to make here your paradise.

If you have not made here your paradise, what paradise are you aiming for? This is the thing people have a aim. Yes, once I finish life here I died then I will go to some places. It's a hope, yes, you know. But it's not like this. You have to make very punta here. your life have to become that paradise itself that open up all the way

so faycunta could it be perceived as like pure light or a reference you're saying a kind of paradise and you get glimpses of it it's both the place we're going to and the place we can have experience of here yes it is here itself no it's not a place that well there is for sure a place

also after you depart from here where the great souls reach, you know, when you have finished here your Dharma, your duty here, of course there's a place that no, you don't come back here. But to reach that place, you have to make it here personally. Can I ask you a few questions about your own personal path and journey to this point? Yes. So you're very. I guess, distinguished from most people's path where you came into this life very much so with the experience of the connection to the divine, whereas sometimes, you know, oftentimes it kind of

gets beat into people through a lot of suffering. And so could you share about what it was like as an early boy, the experience you had at five that we could start from there? So my experience, you know, since I was small, what my grandparents told, me, you know, my mom and my grandma. Since I started crawling, they would never find me everywhere. They will find me only in the prayer room. So that was where they will always look for me first. So my experience that I remember from, like you said, five years old, something happened.

I grew up in Mauritius. Which is where is that? East Africa. Yes, near Madagascar, a small island in the middle of Indian Ocean. Okay. And, yeah, it's true actually. Many people here in America don't know where Mauritius is. Yes.

Very often when I pass the passport control, they ask, where is that? I have to explain. So, yeah, grew up in, when I was small, five years old, you know, playing with all the kids and the surrounding because we live together. So one day I was just sitting under one tree, actually it's a poisonous tree, and I was eating the seeds of these, of the seed from the which were falling, and it tastes like peanuts. So for me it was peanuts, I was eating it. And after sometimes I lost conscious and of course I was forming in the mouth and there were other kids

rushed to my parents and told them and my mom and my dad came, took me to the hospital. And of course, the doctor did what they have to do. So I'm here still. And something happened after all this, I was in the children ward because it was many, many, many beds and the children were there. There was this man outside the hospital window with long hair and he was giving sweets to all the children. So everybody was attracted to him. I also went to him and I asked him one question.

He was giving sweet and I asked him one question, why are you here? I don't know, don't ask me why I ask this question. I'm still thinking about why did I ask this question. But it's true, I ask him, Why are you here? But in my language. And looking at me, he said, I'm here for all the children,

but for you especially. I didn't make any sense for me. So he held my hand. He put one sweet and one rupee, Merchant rupee. And at that time, one rupee, which is hundred cents, was a lot of money for small kids. So you get a lot of sweets and lots of,

because one cent was one cent you get a sweet. So it was, that was the mind was so attached to the, wow, nice. So then he asked me, do you know who you are? I didn't answer because he didn't make any, he didn't, has a echo to me, you know. So I carry on very happy with the sweet and the rupee. So then he said to me, without turning with his finger pointing behind him, I did you see the light.

I was looking, there was a hill, I was looking, which light is he talking about there is no light. I looked at the hill, look at the trees, nothing. I said no, I don't see any light. He bent down, look in my eyes and said, look properly. The second time when I look there was a bowl of light like the sun, the sun surround with a disk of light. It's so beautiful.

And then he said to me, well, I heard a voice, his voice, that's you. How long this vision have lost? I have no clue. After, sometime when I come back to myself, I have to go. Your mom and auntie is coming. Just lift his hands and disappear. Eventually my mom and my auntie came and I was very very, excited to tell the story.

And of course, for them, they think of these children's stories, you know, and I said, okay, it's an uncle, you know, in the island, everybody's uncle, auntie, you know, that is a respect that we have. So just to finish with, I said, oh, it's the uncle. So that is the first what I remember, you know, from my master. Then later on again I was in my tooth was painting

so my mom brought me to the dentist and I just needed to remove the tooth so when he put the injection I bit his finger and I would not let go because it was hurting me and I would say no I don't want him to remove my tooth so I bit the finger

and it was not and my mom got really angry. He gave me a good slap and said the dentist was very nice and I said no no

you know don't beat him is fine my mom was super angry and said you go out so I was out crying

and when I came out on the terrace you know there was the same man was standing and he said you've been naughty

and I said yeah I bit the finger of the netting because I don't want him to remove my tooth. And he was smiling. At that moment, my mom came, just dragged me. And I was crying and I said, Mom, look, this is the same uncle. And look, nobody was there. So like that, he was always there.

So I thought, you know, this is normal. And at the age of 14 and a half actually, I experienced something that changed my life itself. At the age of 14, one night it was 21st of April, I think, 1992. You see, my parent believed, but just like everybody, they will just not very spiritual people. So we'll go to the temple or twice a year for 1st of January and Shavaratri, the great night of Shiva. And that's it. But for me, like I said, I was always attracted towards spirituality.

So I used to have, collect all the little picture of the gods, you know, Krishna, Shiva. And I would put them, my mom, I was not allowed to put it on the wall. So they gave me a cupboard. it was inside the cupboard close. So every night I would do my little prayer with the incense and then close it again for my mom not to get angry. So that night I wake up because there was light coming out from the cupboard. I got so scared because I said, oh, it's burning.

I already see the reaction of my mom. And my parents said, okay. So I rushed and opened the Kabatwana open, there was a picture of a saint, Saaba of Shirley, but you have heard about it. All around him there was a speck of light emanating from that picture. So when I opened it, it was a relief at the same time,

a calmness inside of me. And it was a piece of it. It was peaceful. So when this happened, it dimmed again, I closed a cupboard and I went to sleep. So next morning I thought it was just a dream finished. Then nothing happened. I went to, I was in college at that time. So I went to college.

And when I came back, my mom was sitting outside crying. I asked her, what's wrong with you? Why you're sitting and crying outside? whether something had happened, your mom died, well, your mom already dead. So, no problem. Maybe something happened to my dad or to her family. He said, no, no, no, go inside. So I went inside the house and on the wall and all the other things.

There was some manifestation of ash, Vibhuti we call it, holy ash. So it was just there Okay, it was not much actually Just speced My mom was crying Maybe you should remove these things So we clean everything

So this is a mistake that we did Actually the more we clean It became more Start coming out The whole more things start manifesting And So that is From that on my spiritual journey started

So like that, later on, I had more vision of that same person. And later, in much later in 2008, he revealed to me that it was actually him all this time. Then I didn't even know who he was, you know. So then 2008, before that I knew about, you know, and I heard about Mahatar Babaji. So it was similar, you know. So then 2008 he revealed that all these times, it was only him. So fascinating.

Can you share what is the reality of who Babaji is and was, in your experience, I think people maybe have been familiarized or heard of him first through Paramhansa Yogananda's autobiography of a yogi and they hear about this great being. And I would just love for you to share what do you feel, who he was and is? Actually, look, for me personally, I think about Mahatababavaji is a partial manifestation of Lord Krishna. So when Lord Krishna disappeared and he emanate that aspect of, to remind humanity to bring, to keep a balance into this world.

So he manifests into Mahavdar Babaji. And who he, why he's here, he's a teacher for all the other teacher. He comes at a reminder. Like, he remind me when I was small of showing that light. That's you. Even at that time didn't give me that deep realization of, yes, that is who I am. But it's a reminder of that. How do you know what is true, a real experience of a connection with like a non-physical being versus the potential?

because the mind plays all these deception, perception, distortion. The mind create a lot of tricks and the mind creates a lot of vision because I have met many people who you know how it is on the spiritual people always

think that they are very special. And then when you see when you see that test or problems start having into their life you see how they are really, whether they are really spiritual or not, that I have met also many people.

So how do you know that you have really experiencing something genuinely or not? There's no doubt into it. Because very often you will notice that people who also experience that it is from the mind, they need validation from others. They need to ask, you know, and they need to be, they want you to confirm. what they are experiencing is right. So the validation, not from the Sard Guru, not from their master,

but they want other people to acknowledge their point of view. So that is not right. And it is their own delusion. Because if it is genuine, you will not even want to go around and put it in put a display of it. Because you are weak, you know, you have that doubt inside of you. That's why there's a display and validation of others.

I also think there's no way externally for me or somebody listening to validate the authenticity of somebody else's personal experience. Each person would have their own experience. My experience will be my experience. It can't be your experience. Then each people will have their own unique. experience. And this is the beauty of spiritual path. I think it's a more important thing to look at how someone is living their life as a result of whatever they have experienced or believe

and the joy that they're spreading and the love that they're helping unlock in people's hearts. And that to me is the true testament to, I guess, somebody's. This is also a very good point. Because when you see somebody, which their life itself is miserable and tell them, but okay yes they are miserable themselves what joy would they give to others it can't be yeah and like that's why we say you know only those who are liberated can liberate somebody else you know if you have something then you can give if you don't have something you can't give so at 14 there is a distinct moment whether you call it samadhi or through that experience yes actually i something happened i just in my one of my auntie said to sit and meditate

So I said, okay, fine, let's sit and meditate. It was something, I said, okay, I've never did it before, so let's try. So my auntie tried to explain to how to do it. So we sat down everybody at 8 o'clock in the evening. We sat down and meditate. So when we were in meditation, but the point is that at that moment when I sat down and meditate, something happened to me so I left

and I was not back for three days so you sat down to meditate and you felt like you left your body yeah for three days for three days I was in this the state of samadhi and your family your auntie

and I was sitting and crying you see the heart was still beating very faintly and the people was there. It was a big commotion, yeah. So in their experience, your eyes were closed. Were you still sat, seated, like sitting like this, or were you laying down?

I think I was, well, I started by sitting down. I think they took me and put me in there. Yeah. So for three days, I was not there. And what was your experience as you were? That I have never said to anybody, actually. Really? Actually, during that experience, I was in a different place.

It was like a long traveling. And I don't know whether you... Because I never say that to... Yeah. I mean, if you're open to sharing, I'm just so curious about that state and what your consciousness goes through and what it is experiencing, you know. It was not a mind process, you see. It's not that, of course, after I came back, I could remember everything.

I still remember everything. I still, right now when I'm talking to you, can still feel everything inside of me right now, you know. And yeah, it was, I was traveling, you know, to different spheres and different realities. And meeting different beings. I think people are starting to understand more and more how our consciousness might potentially not be bound by time and space. And if you're able to get into deep brainwave states or deep moments of meditation like this, I personally have had heard many experiences where people leave their body and have different experiences around. So it was your experience that you

were like traveling to different worlds, realities, experiencing, communicating with other beings, Do you want to share any more? Are you open to a little bit? No. So from that moment in that experience forward, you had a different devotion to the path that you wanted to live in this life. Like I said to you, from small devotion was there.

Faith was there because I come from a Hindu family. So that was also the background of that. So this level of uncompromising devotion towards your mission to the beautiful ashram and the people that are around you can you speak into that devotion that you feel from young age till now

where you feel like this has come from like Mahatah Babaji have said to me this is from previous life itself that devotion defunction just doesn't sprout itself like that and it is a continuation of that

what is going on. Like I said, God remind each one where it has to be. So my path, what I am giving to the devotees and to the people, it's the love that God have for humanity and human also have for the divine itself. So that's why you see there's through ashram, through temples, you know, for worship, you know, I come to feeling that love. Yeah.

An interesting part of that dynamic was after that samadhi experience, correct me if I'm wrong, but you had awareness and like perfect understanding of Korea practices. No, that came later on, in 2001, actually, Mahata Babaji asked me to teach Korea. And I said, no, I would not teach Korea. It's bold, bold move. We have that connection. Because I said, no, I'm not, I don't feel like, you know. This time now, okay.

In 2005, he asked me again. I said, okay, fine. But with one condition, I had one condition put to it. But there's an ancient technique. of a healing called Om chanting. The yogis and the saints used to do that and it disappeared.

So I said to Mahadha Rabbavaji, if you allowed me to bring that technique then I will. And then he said, okay, fine. Because he accepted it and said, okay fine, I will start teaching.

So your journey since then, I'm just so curious about having these experiences as a young boy, like regardless of how adventurous and expanded your consciousness is, you're still in a 14-year-old body. And from that point, there started, people started to come to you. And I'm just curious about this transition into people perceiving you as a, as a guru. No, that came later. Yeah, later. Much later. You see, like I said, I come from a Hindu background. And Hindu, what we do very often, we take the priest itself as somebody which is very advanced, which is not really, but okay, they're just doing their work, you know.

But in the normal sense, people have that respect towards somebody which is worshipping. So for me when this happened, like I said this ash was coming and this was something wonderful. So people start coming. What they want to see is want to see miracle. This is what the mind is about, you know. They want to see miracle. So they start coming and funny thing is that people will take the ash and they will go home and they will get healed. One famous thing is that one person is that one person will be coming.

person who came with cancer and she was crying please. My name was Vishim at that time, please help me because I have little children and said, okay fine, I will see what I can do. So, then okay. So onward her cancer started disappearing. So she had wonderful life and her children grew up and just recently now after 20 years cancer came back.

So that people start hearing about it. Like for example when I started travelling I was invited to Kenya by a couple at the age of 15 actually. their son eyes was getting, they were getting blind and doctor could not do anything. They did all the surgery and everything that they had to do. It was getting worse and worse. And they called me. I went to Kenya for three days and eventually the eyes of the sun is fine. get better. So like that, things happen. So now later in your life, when the ashram was eventually

built, and I'm just curious, how have you remained to have the purity and clarity in your heart when the ego is very insidious and it's very slippery and it can very quickly latch on to the admiration or worship from others and trick us into thinking, you know, making it more about the mind? Have you had any struggle with that? No, I've never had any struggle with it. Really? Because I don't, you see, I'm not looking for people. You see, I have experience enough in my life.

People today flattered you. You know, people tell you how much love you. And the same people tomorrow will put you down. So listening to people how they are in front of you, you have not to take it seriously. because they will give big affirmation and that I have learned that throughout my life never to take it personal

because the moment you take it personal your ego start you look for self-gratification you look for yes people have to give you that devotion people have to bow down to you what role do you feel the guru plays actually the guru plays a very big role

without the guru not possible because every time I have heard very often people say we don't need the guru actually it's not true we need the guru

because only those who have reached to that point can lead you to there is only somebody who knows how to go out of that forest can lead you out of the forest. Otherwise, it seems like a maze. You get stuck into it. I went recently. We went to San Francisco just for one day. We went to a maze, a mirror maze. It was crazy because everything was moving around. So it is like that, you see, without having a guide

to guide you out of that maze it's very difficult so that is the grace of the set guru itself I think that oftentimes people associate their humanity with the limitations and I think everything you're speaking to is like that's equally our humanity

or humanness the divine and human form do you still do you still experience frustration and no it is there I don't say No, because sometimes I have to be frustrated, you know, for other people to listen. Otherwise, they don't listen.

Yeah. Especially if you have, say, 10 times the same thing, still, they don't change. Yeah, I think at least in the West, there's a big perception of, like, transcending the small self or the ego and not, like, integrating it and coming along the journey. And I'm just curious, any thoughts you have about this idea of transcending. these like what people label as negative or bad emotions but yeah like just finding more integrity within whole you have to transcend the easiest way to transcend it is go through it very often we try to go sideways but you don't learn anything yeah when you go through that you will be able to transcend it and once you have transcend it it will not come back but when you try to go sideways

it will come back again. It will come back even more stronger. So transcending the ego is very important and transcending the negativity. It's a choice, you know. Let's say, for example, when you're on the path of spirituality, you're a path of happiness,

you want to be successful in whatever field you want to be. It's a choice, no? So whatever choice you make, make, you give your thought, you go deeper into that. And once you go to that, if you give attention to negativity, that negativity will drag you down. You can't expect you to flourish and really become great. But when you give attention to your positivity, to be away from that pride and ego, you

will be right. rise itself and it become easy how important is it for us to find success in the fulfillment internally to have devotion towards something greater than ourselves in our life it's easier actually you know because if you say devotion to to to to oneself is also the egoistic point you know okay you are so great and let's flattered the ego you are so majestic then you sing the glory of I me and mine, you know, look how wonderful I am, look how beautiful I am, look how successful I am, you know, and then what? You still not satisfied because you still want more and more. That is the greediness of life. So when that is transcend, then you start to appreciate what you

have. So carrying that devotion just from the eye to the we into the greater whole, like, very much so devoted your life very deeply towards your mission. And I always find there's, like, that grace comes into the picture as you really devote your life into something greater for the collective. And so I just love for you to share a little bit more about the power of devotion and how grace comes into the picture. When we talk our devotion, we devoted ourselves to God. Like for us, we devoted to Krishna, to.

Shamanara, you know. So it's not about us. So we take that credit away from us. We give the credit to God. If it's the same Lord which is inside of us, it's the same Lord which is in everything, but we give that credit.

Even just that itself make you feel, yes, more lighter because you have surrendered yourself to him. So devotion is very important. Because people have devotion for so many things. Either you have devotion to your personality,

devotion to your success into life, devotion have many ways. So you devotion into the lower spheres or devotion to the highest spheres. So when we are in the spiritual, we give devotion to the highest space. You know, we give devotion to God. And so then what's the balance between effort and grace on the path? You have to do your effort to attract the grace. Without effort, you don't. reach that grace. In what kind of effort? Well, your sadena, your spiritual practices.

And then, so the more that you devote yourself to your saddena and your spiritual practice and you put in that effort, this is very important, what is the feeling of grace in how that comes? On that point, you see, very often I have seen people whenever they're doing their sardana. They do it with so intense. They're not relaxed. They feel that, yes, I have to. Yes, I have to do that much, I have to do this, you know. They push themselves to the brain of it, you know, then they collapse. It's like militant. Yeah, they're very militant and then they don't achieve anything.

Yeah. That used to be me very much so. You have to enjoy also, you know, what you're doing. You know, when we are talking about spirituality, it's not boring at all. Yeah. I say, because very often people think that spirituality is boring, you know. No, it's not. It is one of the most joyful and most celebrating life.

itself. So that is important. Yeah. But you celebrate each moment of your life. Yeah. And so how do you experience grace and the people around you and in your own personal life? Yeah, what is, how does grace arrive? What form does it take? What does it feel like in our life? Grace come in many forms. And in the smallest things of your life, you know, I call it the golden moment. If you perceived that each day of your life, there is. grace into it but you have to be to not tested see it's not just that when you fall sick then you get heal that is a grace no it's not only that every day of your life there's a golden moment every day there's when you help somebody on the street when you do something good for somebody

this is the grace itself it allowed you to serve you know i think part of the path of arriving there not identifying with such a small, limited self of who we are. Much of the path of spirituality, we were a little bit in discussion a couple of days ago at that event, this talk of fearlessness and the path of spirituality. So I'd love for you to speak to fear. How does one arrive at fearlessness in the pursuit of, you know, attaining and serving?

This is fear. This is what controlled the mind, actually, because the mind won't be in control. And the weapon that the mind used for that is fear. Because the mind knows your weakness and you know your weakness and you like to look at it. You like to glorifying that witness. More you glorify it, more fear will be there.

Because fear it is unknown to what it is, you know, what will be. Very often when I say, you know, people come to me and said, oh, you know, Guruji, I want to change my life, but, you know, the moment you start thinking like that, you can't change anything. So we bring, you know, our own fear, you know, and we make that fear so huge, that we can't control it anymore. I love how you talked about the spiritual journey being the longest and shortest distance of 40 centimeters.

Well, mine, too hard. Yeah, it really is. It's like the paradoxical nature of it where it's, it really is from the mind to the heart. And yet it takes lives. Lives and longest way, actually. It is a shortest journey. But people don't want to let go of the mind. They don't want to let go of their ego personality. I heard once is saying that the longest distance between two paths is a shortcut. And I think a lot of people, I think a lot of people, want to, you know, latch on to the bumper sticker quotes, cliches of spirituality without really feeling it, integrating it in their body. But what do you see is the direct path to living in the heart, really? Enjoy each moment of your life, you know, because that moment is unique. And if you can't enjoy that, you will never be happy. So we're all on the spiritual path, I suppose whether or not we are consciously taking it up, you know, oftentimes we unconsciously

grasp of things that we think are going to bring us happiness or a pleasant experience of life. And the path of spirituality is very much so the conscious process of how to live in the heart and how to realize these things. And for everybody that's listening right now, what do you feel like is another big pitfall on the spiritual path that we haven't covered yet? Well, spiritual ego. Yeah. Because also on the spiritual path, you see, very often, even in spite of knowing everything, the ego is still there. The spiritual pride.

So that's what we have to be careful of. Then how to be careful of that is try to become humble. Yeah. Embrace your humanity and your humility. I fully agree and you know if enlightenment is supposed to be something approximating not having an obnoxious ego having an ego about how much you don't have an ego is one of the most unfortunate realities you know and it's sad to experience and I've I've definitely encountered that you know where you have an expanded sense of awareness or you maybe develop a little bit spiritually and then the ego makes you feel superior

you're very important yeah i've met many people like that you see they borrowed book knowledge right yeah and through book knowledge they think that they know spirituality is about experience you see if you are on the spiritual you have not experience what you know it's difficult yeah they're still on the way experience is important you know of the often especially on the path of of devotion there's some powerful says yes knowledge is important

you know you have to have knowledge and then you can have experience and when I look at especially I can talk for my devotee I look at my devotee

it's opposite it's they have that experience first then they get to know about it they have the knowledge of it because once you have had knowledge and

want to experience that, the mind is still there. Then you want to create that experience with your mind. And the ego is still playing there. You see, the ego will make you think about, yeah, you are very special. You know, you're a spiritual person. And you can see that in the world itself. You know, people which is very knowledgeable, they have great knowledge about all the scriptures. But at the same time, they lack humility inside of it.

them. This knowledge who have to help them to liberate actually trap them into their own egoistic nature. I agree totally. I think it's so important to have teachers and just friends who can keep us in check and make sure that we still remain humble and whenever gaining knowledge, it's kind of an inevitable process for most people that we lose our path, we lose our way a little bit. And then we come back into the center. It's normal sometimes to lose it. Like when you have to shoot an arrow, you have to pull it behind. Sometimes it's good to take some step behind and then move forward with a different strength.

Yeah, I was just doing a podcast with somebody, Dr. Gilbert, and he mentioned this phrase he heard of, sometimes I don't know where the line is until I step over it, you know, and that process. You know it before. you know it after but when it's happening you don't know yeah do you feel there's an overarching intention that consciousness

and life has in and of itself because we have our own intention of what we want in life but consciousness itself is seemingly almost feels like it's divinely designing and architecting experience so that we may come to know ourselves

and to realize in many ways actually yes you see your consciousness have its own Dharma. That's why I said you are here. It's not random. And your consciousness will make it for sure giving you experience that will bring you

where the expansion of that awareness can happen. That's why you see very often people search. You start your searching but yet you don't feel yet this is my way, this is my path. until you find what you're really looking for. So much of that path I feel is a process of aligning our will with the divine will. And that's much so what you spoke to about living in your Dharma. What is Dharma and how can we find it to live it in our life?

Well, there is a universal Dharma as a human being that is to love, that is on the path of Bhakti and the path of devotion. That is the Dharma of your soul itself. to come to that blissful state of love. This is a universal Dharma. And of course, in how to achieve to that, everybody have their own Dharma in a unique way to approach that. So for those that are struggling to find, like their purpose, their Dharma,

finding meaning in the way that they're showing up in the planet, we all desire that, but a lot of people find frustration and not having it. Yeah, well, look, never lose hope. keep searching keep longing for that because it will happen firstly for you to have the frustration

that you have not yet found your Dharma it's a good sign it's not bad that means that yes you know there is something greater you know that you're destined for something better

yeah it feels like not knowing our path is a part of the process of knowing our path It is a process. So when you look at karma, bakhtha and yana yoga, why do you think certain, like out of those three, why does someone get attracted to one of them instead of the other? And maybe you could also share what each of them are. Each person, like I said, have their own path.

You see, like we are some people which is drawn towards karma yoga, for example. For them they feel good in serving. They will go out serving. but you have to understand the nature of service. Even that, you can grow spiritually into that. There are many saints who have attained the religion just by service. But you have to understand the true nature of service.

Like I would say, service to mankind is service to God. Narayan saver. Mahalha and sava. Man of sava, madhaf sava, man of sava, man of sava, sorry, so service to mankind, and service to Narayana. So having that deep inside that my service is towards the divine, we're serving. So for some people, that is easy.

Because you know, you go services also not just say, okay, I write a check and send it and serving. No, go and be with the people. That is karma young. And then you have other, some people who, for them, is for Bhakti. devotion. For them they serve also through an energetic point of view. Because when you're worshipping it generate a certain energy. It's not only for yourself, that energy expand. The expansion of that energy also help the surrounding, help nature help mother earth, you know. And then you have a Ghani, you know, that those who are very knowledge,

eligible. And they're also serving in a way because without knowledge would not be here. All the great sages and saints for antiquity, you know, they have written length on scriptures and so on because that was needed. Yeah, I've personally found most resonance with individuals like Krishna Merti and Srinasagratara Maharaj and the path of Giam. yoga and I feel like that's very much so in alignment with this podcast and my intention here is to share this knowledge in a way that it invites us back to that self-rememberance and so yeah you think it's just depending on someone's temperament personality get drawn to a certain sect path

depend also on the level of spirituality where you stand that when you will be drawn to with that you know and like you said you know all this teacher you know is a great Maharaj and then then Kashamurti and all they were very finding of who you are you know like Ramanah Maharishi also which is important you know on the on the on the on the path itself without knowing who you are firstly you can't help somebody else to know themselves so then Bhakti there is there's a different quality in which someone on that path carries within their heart I feel like actually is true

you know Bhakti have a sweetness in it which for me personally I have seen all the path also but the path

of devotion have a different sweetness you know that sweetness of relationship with Bhagwan

you know relationship with God it's amazing I say okay fine I can't reach to that

level but I know you are there you know no matter what I am not alone because on the path of self

has a knowing it's a part of often loneliness I have to journey to that I have to do that no but on the power of Bhakti say no but one said okay fine

I am with you so this is the beauty that's what Krishna remind origin I say okay fine you do your duty on this battle

field, you can't run away in the Mahabharata and the war field, you know. When Arjun was, you saw in the first chapter of the Bhagwad Gita, he was very confused and want to run away and don't want to fight or what he wants to do. No, Krishna remind him. But when it comes to duty, you should never put your personal emotion into it. So it's beautiful to say without that guidance from the Sad Guru from Lord Krishna himself. Arjun would not be there. So there is a sweetness of a relationship that it is there.

Okay, you do your duty, do your Dharma. You have commit yourself. Do it, but do it selflessly. do it without any selfish motive behind you don't want to do to have all this is fine but that is the nature of serving so for those that are listening that they can feel into karma yoga being through our action and non-attachment to circumstance we can purify ourselves and go on that path or the path of knowledge with giana yoga or or Bhakti, the path of devotion, and infusing it with Kria Yoga, like supporting us on our path regardless. Is there anything that you could share as to helping people clarify what is going to serve the most in which path?

Well, you see, each path, like I said, have a uniqueness in it. And what will serve the most in each path is the dedication that they have. I think if you are dedicated to your path and try to do it with wholeheartedly, you will grow into that. Why do you feel that? Could you share a little bit about Bhakti Marga and why you feel there has been such a beautiful, I guess, fragrance of this devotional path all around you and that people commit to? Like I said, you see, I have taken Mahavarababha's grace and through different grace of the archaaries also, you know. And the powerful Bhakti, like I said, have a sweetness, you know,

and that which you don't find in any other power. And that's what is lacking nowadays for me. That's why when Mahavtar Babi said to teach Korea, I said no. I want also Bhakti into it. I want to spread that devotion also because that's what it is needed in this time. When devotion is so wrongly understand because often we see people say, okay that one is very devotion, you know, they are doing ritual, all this stuff, it's very downgraded.

If you understand what is behind all this, you know, this is where knowledge also is important. So if you understand what lies behind that, you will see that that will elevate you. One other thing I do want to touch on is, I think this is all very helpful for people. The romantic relationships that we carry and find in partnership with other people

can be an immense source of suffering pain, but also awakening and sharing and companionship on the journey in the path. So, yeah, what do you feel, if we so choose, romantic partnerships can help and serve on the path of spirituality? Well, love is love. Love start first, like I was telling in the thing. It start always relating to people. So that's what is it, the basic relationship. And our relationship start long.

The moment we come out of the mother, we are put on the chest of our mother to feel that warmness, that relationship. So we are all constantly into that. What do you feel most people are getting wrong and how they approach relationships in that dynamic?

You see, when people approach relationships, they expect from each another too much. And when they start expecting, this is where problems start. rising. Then they start going into the drama. Yes, we start lovely. People come together. They live together. You know, as long as they're dating each another, it's wonderful. You have seen it, you know. But the moment they move together, this is where the problem is stopped. Chaos and serious. Because then you're fight. You know, you have to, you're faced with. You're faced with.

with the reality of the person. Because as long as you're far away from the person, you can love each other. But when you come there, you have the challenge. Are you ready to accept the challenge or not? But this is also the beauty of it. Yeah, I think so many of us struggle and that acceptance of somebody,

because we often have those expectations and want things done a certain way and that creates friction and resistance in the relationship. And so, yeah, anything else you want, to share about the power of acceptance in someone's... When you come together in a relationship, you should know what bring you together. That sharing together, to be, to learn from each another, to support each another.

Not only to trash each another. Wonderful. Just in closing here, is there anything else on your heart that you want to share with the audience today that you feel would be supportive for them? What I would like to share with everybody is just be yourself. Know that God love you the way you are, the way He has created you, and grow with that. Beautiful. Thank you so much.

I appreciate you coming here today and the time. And, you know, you haven't been in L.A. since seven years ago, right? Yeah. So it's been quite some time. So I'm glad this synchronistically aligned in work to come here. No, thank you. You send a message, you know, and they said you will be there in that function. Yeah.

Wonderful. Wonderful. So good. Just in kind of closing, is there anything else you want to share about what you have going on in the world? And, yeah, the path of what's to come over, you feel the next decade for Bhakti Marga, what you're creating, anything you want to share? Well, like at the beginning I said, you know, my aim is to spread the love of God, you know, and to spread this love. to everybody. So that's what we carry and share it to everybody.

Yeah. Everybody, thank you so much for tuning into this episode of the Nile-Li-Self podcast. Please let us know this episode in particular has impacted you. And until next time,