Know Thyself - E91 - Dr. Robert Gilbert: Rosicrucian Secrets To Self Mastery, Sacred Geometry & The Subtle Body

Episode Date: April 9, 2024

Rosicrucian Spiritual Teacher Dr. Robert Gilbert is back on Know Thyself this week for a deeper discussion into structuring the subtle body, awakening higher knowledge, and avoiding spiritual pitfalls. He and André discuss how to cultivate true sincerity on the spiritual path: a resonance that is essential for proper development and missing in many teachings. Robert shares his story of awakening and how he followed the messages that led him to his true destiny. He reveals how to cultivate a stronger inner vision to be able to have deeper clarity into your unique path and master self observation. He also dives deep into merging wisdom from different spiritual traditions, decoding the mysteries of sacred geometry, and the strong significance of the number 12.André's Book Recommendations: https://www.knowthyself.one/books___________Timecodes:0:00 Intro 2:29 How to Properly use Spiritual Knowledge 13:57 Spiritual Sincerity & True Resonance on the Path 22:30 Robert’s Story: From Military to Spiritual Teacher37:18 Spiritual Experiences That Shifted His Perspective40:41 Cultivating Conscious Vision: Backward Review Exercise54:45 Decoding Messages in Our Dreams1:00:26 Tools for Mastering Self Observation1:11:55 Merging Wisdom From Different Spiritual Traditions1:18:25 Harnessing the Power of Sacred Geometry1:30:39 What Cymatics Reveals About Us1:38:56 Apply this Knowledge for Structuring Subtle Body1:46:00 Significance of the Number 122:01:08 Reality of Birthing the New Golden Age2:08:10 Conclusion___________Robert J. Gilbert Ph.D. is a former U.S. Marine Corps instructor in Nuclear­Biological-Chemical Defense, with over 30 years of research into both mainstream and holistic health methods. He holds a Ph.D. in International Studies, and contributed to the first academic textbook on Transformational Politics.Dr. Gilbert has extensively studied French methods of Vibrational Radiesthesia from the early 1900’s, sponsoring the translation of many rare texts into English for the first time. Dr. Gilbert was also the first non-­Egyptian to be granted Instructor status in the Egyptian system of BioGeometry®, founded by Dr. Ibrahim Karim of Cairo. Dr. Gilbert is currently the Director of the Vesica Institute for Holistic Studies in Asheville, North Carolina. He teaches both live and online courses, the latest of which is the Online series entitled Vibrational Testing and Healing.The Vesica Institute: https://www.vesica.orgInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/vesicainstitute/___________Looking to Start a Podcast? Podcasting Course: https://www.podcastpurpose.com/Know ThyselfInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/knowthyself/Website: https://www.knowthyself.oneClips Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJ4wglCWTJeWQC0exBalgKgListen to all episodes on Audio: Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4FSiemtvZrWesGtO2MqTZ4?si=d389c8dee8fa4026Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/know-thyself/id1633725927André DuqumInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/andreduqum/Meraki Mediahttps://merakimedia.comhttps://www.instagram.com/merakimedia/

Life is a limited time opportunity, and we need to use the time as effectively as possible. A huge number of people, the vast majority, actually are not doing what they came here to do. They've become too fragmented, distracted by all of the things going on in modern society. The effect of this will be literally catastrophic. One of the keys to human life is always asking ourselves, who am I, why am I here, and what is the purpose for which I've incarnated in the present lifetime. This will transform your destiny in a profound way. We are structuring our subtle body with every thought, every feeling, and every action that we take.

Everything has a pattern behind it. If you can begin to learn what the most functional patterns are, you can craft your life into anything. And then sky's the limit. The world becomes a magical place, and every moment in this limited time opportunity becomes an amazing playground of things that we can experience and explore and start making every day this amazing dance. of manifesting ourselves while also manifesting our work in the world. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to know thyself.

Today we have a returning guest and somebody that I just love diving into deep conversation with around all things about the human spiritual journey, sacred geometry, Rosicrucianism, and much, much more. Founder of the Veska Institute, Dr. Robert J. Gilbert, thanks for coming back. Wonderful. Thanks so much for inviting me back. I really enjoyed our last conversation. Likewise, it's like, it's just, sometimes you have,

hit a sweet spot with an area and certain areas of topics of life and discussion that both really fascinate me, but also hit kind of your life study that just created a really exciting intersection, I think also for others to tune into. And so let's just keep diving deeper as an extension and continuation of the last one. Wonderful. Thank you. So where I want to start off is because I personally feel this responsibility as a podcast host and where, you know, more and more now millions of people every month are tuning into information that I have conversation. with my guest and also like the responsibility you have as a teacher and someone who's sharing a lot of this information and spiritual wisdom. I was just reading in knowledge of the higher world and its

attainment, I believe, by Rudolph Steiner. And one quote that popped out is where I kind of want to start today and just get your thoughts on it. So in it, speaking to this fundamental principle that said all knowledge pursued merely for the enrichment of personal learning and the accumulation of personal treasure leads you away from the path. But all knowledge pursued for growth to ripeness within the process of human ennoblement and cosmic development brings you a step forward. Essentially, every idea which does not become your ideal slays a force in your soul. Every idea which becomes your ideal creates within you life forces. And so I feel like on this path of spiritual study, well, sometimes we think maybe enriching us, may be depleting us.

And so I'm just curious what your thoughts are on when people tune into this conversation or your work or some of my other podcast, what is a way in which we can position ourselves to receive and digest information in a way that truly helps us develop on our spiritual path and doesn't just become more accumulation of information? That's a really good question. And if you go into the Rosicrucian understanding of seven levels of initiation, the first, of the seven levels is the study of spiritual science. So it's understood that first we need to have a context for all of the principles that we're going to be engaged with on the spiritual path. And so it's very important that you have a frame of reference for these concepts to land. And so that's why it's the first step of seven. But again, it's only a first step. At that point, it becomes more and more experiential as you begin to apply that knowledge into a series

of practices that will actually transform the subtle body and that will actually give you some type of permanent transmutation of the structure of the subtle body, the structure of the consciousness, and pulling us more toward our teleological destination toward what we're meant to become at the end of the process of spiritual development. And so there's many different factors to it. One of the things that's often overlooked when we deal with intellectual knowledge is that if it's purely intellectual in a materialistic sense, then it doesn't necessarily contribute to our daily lived experience, to creating a change in how we experience the world and what our possibilities are for crafting the perfect life in it. But at the same time,

Having those core concepts is absolutely essential because it will allow us to be given more information in direct communication with non-physical worlds and non-physical beings. So that's often overlooked. So for example, on the spiritual path, it's not just a matter of what we hold in our head. It's a matter of opening up the crown center and connecting to the column of energy above the human head. So you'll find this in the advanced teachings of almost every tradition. But it's something that, unfortunately, there's very little information on in Western metaphysics today. So when we become aware that the major energy centers in the human body, what we often think of as the seven chakras, doesn't end at the head, but continues in the calm of energy that goes straight above the head through multiple platforms.

and that these platforms are outside of the physical body because they have such a high level of energy, such a high level of voltage, that they cannot be held in the physical body. They would burn out the naughty subtle energy channels of the physical body. The energy is as too high. Then we become aware that we need to be moving our attention from simply brain-bound thinking

to going up the column to the centers above the head and operating from there, not thinking about it from below, but actually putting our consciousness in the energy centers above the head. Now you'll see some great visual representations of this, particularly in Nepalese Tonka paintings, where they'll show the multiple centers above the head. Often there'll be particular sacred geometric forms connected to the centers above the head that have to do with their energetic structure and capacities. And often you'll find things like pictures of...

blue-skinned women with these high crowns floating on clouds connecting to the centers above the head, which is showing that this is a place that we connect to non-physical beings that can then give us higher-level information. And so to get that higher-level information and then integrate it into the physical brain and into our physical lives, we do need to have a certain amount of clear concepts. So for example, if you're connecting to higher beings and they're trying to give you more practical information about structuring the subtle body, if you don't know the difference between the atheric life body, the body of primal life force in the body, and the astral body, which is the fundamental layer of the body of consciousness, then there's only a certain amount

of information they can give you. So there is the essential part of this, again, the first step on the seven-step path of Rosicrucian initiation, in which we can actually get the concepts we need at that first stage of the study of spiritual science, but then at that point it needs to move into a dynamic integration of information with experience. That experience is both connected to the spiritual practices that we do in our life, and also with the information that we can then receive from higher-level beings. Now, these things are deeply interconnected. So, for example, when I created the courses at the Veska Institute,

I created the first one to be the essential teachings and practices of spiritual science so that we could get some of the fundamental concepts, but also the practices that go with them so that we can apply the concept into something that will experientially start. structuring the subtle bodies. So, for example, in that first course, I'll go into the difference between receptive meditation and active meditation and how these have to be both pursued at the same time. Most traditions will only do one or the other. So you have traditions like Zen and Vapasana and such that are mostly receptive about a clear mind state. And that's absolutely essential.

And then in the West we tend to focus on creative visualization and things that are more active forms of meditation, crafting thought forms, but really the two have to go together in a type of a rhythm, like breathing in and breathing out, or stepping forward with the left foot and then the right foot. Again, the problem today is that we get so much fragmented information, we only see one part of an equation. We don't see how the whole thing fits together. And then we go into topics such as creating an organizing center for the entire body of energy, which we touched on last time in the activation of the heart and of the six lotus petals of the heart being activated by six specific exercises

so that when they come online all of the 12 lotus petals of the heart become active and create an organizing center for the entire body of energy and that's extremely important so after having given these fundamental teachings and practices in the first course, the next one I created is called connecting to spiritual realities. Because what we're really doing, when you see it in a larger context across time, is that having received the fundamental concepts and having done some of the fundamental structuring practices in the physical body, is then we have to understand about activating the parts

of the energy field, particularly those centers above the head, but also to some degree those below the body that are going to allow us to get the direct, what they would say in the Middle Ages conversation of the Holy Guardian angel, which is really activating our consciousness to be able to perceive communication from non-physical beings. And so that's why in the second course, the Connecting Spiritualities, I go into more detail about activating centers above the head in a particular process or sequence. and then connect that to the different levels of the angelic hierarchies, as understood in Rosicrucianism or the Western tradition, and how the activation of the different centers above the head allow us to then receive the communication from higher and higher levels of beings.

Now, as we move upward, however, from the center we've created at the heart, as we move upward, we have to also make a corresponding move downward. And so if we just go upward, then there's a certain unbalancing of the human energy field while we're physically incarnated, that we have to ground to the equal level as we ascend. And that's often overlooked. Today, there's a lot of discussion of ascension processes without an understanding that as long as you're in a physical body, all ascending processes must be joined with a corresponding grounding process. And again, this is somewhat disastrously overlooked today. see almost no mention of it anywhere in spiritual circles today. So as we're activating the centers above the head, we then start to activate those below the body. And then these are connected together in the vesica form, which then surrounds the human body in concentric vesicas, which is the

exact same form that you see in the entrance to the cathedrals in Europe that were created by the medieval Freemasons, because they considered these cathedrals to be books written in stone, and they contain certain secrets of structuring the human subtle body, etc. So I wanted to give this a little bit more detail in discussing the idea about getting intellectual knowledge, receiving concepts that are accurate and true to spiritual science, and how that becomes a foundation then for the experiential practices first in the body, and then moving outside of the body to the higher voltage centers that allow us to then move beyond a consciousness only in the physical world and open up our perception of higher worlds, which is why the book

by Steiner that you referenced, the title of it, is knowledge of higher worlds and its attainment. I feel like what we often see is kind of partly due to the Western education system, which is essentially an accumulation of information or facts than to be regurgitated and your success is correlated to how well you can recite what you heard externally or studied, right? Yes. Versus the deeper understanding of real spiritual maturity, which is actually the structuring of the subtle body and it's not something that you know, but it becomes something that you are. And so I want to speak into how we can cultivate deeper sincerity on the path to really integrate

these what start as ideas or things that become, you know, in our awareness, maybe they hear through a podcast like this or they study or they learn elsewhere. But then it becomes something that they implement to their daily saddena or they have practices that allow them to actually have a taste of a spiritual experience, which I would define as something beyond your mind or your body. And so how does one, because I feel oftentimes what really shifts the sincerity for most people is like actually tasting something beyond their own mind and body and habitual tendencies. Absolutely. And so, yeah, maybe speak on that and anything outside as well to continue to cultivate that

sincerity on the path. I think one of the first keys is related to another Rosicrucian initiation saying. We talked about a few of those sayings in the last discussion. But there's one that says that wisdom lies solely in truth. And so it becomes a inner commitment to truth. This manifests not only in being true to ourselves about our own inner nature and representing that properly and really being willing to face the parts of us that are not in truth or that are not really aligned spiritually. and also being in truth with the people around us and the situations around us, which is one of those things that on the surface we say,

oh yes, well, you must live in truth and be truthful with people, et cetera, and we all nod to our heads and say, yes, that's kind of a homily. Of course, we do that. But again, we need to have a type of radical truth, a type of radical honesty, because the spiritual beings that we will attract on the path are going to be linked to the degree to which we're living in truth and speaking in truth. The more that we bring in various types of distortion, then that's going to affect our resonance. Everything is based on resonance.

And so we have to make sure that the resonance that we're setting up is with the highest quality, the highest level. And there's no stones to be thrown here. We all have all types of difficulties that we sometimes have an even getting clear on what our inner truth is. Who am I really? What do I really like? What do I really want? What is my real purpose here? And again, this also goes back to the foundation of what we spoke about last time, that one of the keys to human life is always asking ourselves the power questions of who am I? Why am I here? And what is the purpose for which I've incarnated in the present lifetime?

that then leads to an understanding of multiple lifetimes like beads on a chain that are leading up to what we described last time as the teleological destination as the thing that's magnetically attracting us toward that at the end of the process of our earthly incarnations will have attained a structuring of the subtle bodies where we can be fully conscious in fact super conscious and be able to be an independent actor in the universe without a physical sheath, a physical vessel to act through. Because for the vast majority of human beings right now, we need to have a physical vessel and the senses to be fully conscious. And so this whole question about sincerity on the spiritual path is a type of recommitment to ourselves and our own true nature and to as much as possible living in truth with the people around us. Now this also can lead to the types of experiences that the great Russian philosopher Gerjeef would refer to in different ways as the terror of the situation.

And one part of the terror of the situation is that the world is full of sleeping human beings that are marching like lemmings off the end of the cliff. And so we see all of these destructive societal patterns of things that aren't going to lead to a good outcome and that we need to wake up. But another aspect of the terror of the situation is to what degree we personally are still asleep, still need to wake up in the greater metaphysical sense, and that we need to continue to recommit to truth. Now, that may mean some fundamental and sometimes very difficult changes in our relationships with other people. and what we do for our living and for our income, all kinds of things related to how we live our life

to get more aligned with truth. Because we all grew up in situations with the family and societal expectations, and how do we craft that to move in the direction we need to move to? So I think that's some of the first things that we need to be aware of as far as sincerity on the spiritual path. This does link to that fundamental opening of the heart we talked about before. and when we look at those six essential exercises,

then things such as the observation and direction of thinking and feeling and willing and positivity and openness to new perspectives is all a part of staying in sincerity, staying in truth, because it's very easy to pop out of it. It's quite common to find people who started on the spiritual path, they become known publicly. And of course, one of the issues that we discussed last time is one of the first trials on the spiritual path is the one of ego inflation. As soon as we begin to ego inflate and think we're more advanced and perfect than we are,

we're already moving out of truth. So any type of arrogance or hubris and that level, all these things are interconnected, is going to take us out of the correct resonance and alignment. with the beings we really want to be connected to. Now, this is one aspect of what I believe we touched on briefly last time, again with the work of Gurdjif, where he says we often start on the spiritual path toward a very specific destination where we want to get to.

And then in dealing with all of the sufferings and strivings in the world, we can start having a curling back on itself of our spiritual development in a way that we don't even know what's happening. but just trying to deal with all the things we have to navigate in the world, it starts curling back, and it can actually end up going backwards, and we don't even know what's happened. That's where he talks about the need for corrective shocks, and that corrective shocks will come in at certain parts of the spiritual path to keep us honest, to keep us clear, sometimes giving us very difficult life experiences for us to recommit to the main purpose, because, as I always like to say, life is a limited time opportunity, and we need to use.

use the time as effectively as possible. It's a really important reflection because like you spoke to and I'm more interested in where I still am asleep myself in my own daily life but that on the bigger scale the macro scale of the human species such a large percentage for the majority of their days are in a sleep-like state enchanted by their thoughts and emotion and kind of this habitual and you know studies say that 95% of our thoughts are roughly the same that we had the previous state. And, You know, and so as we reflect on, which I hope more and more people give themselves the space to reflect on in which ways my life unfolding right now, and which path am I currently set on. And we realize that, you know, one degree change over a long period of time lands you in a completely different space. And so reflecting on how my path is unfolding, how has it unfolded up into this point.

For me, my life experience and the continuation of certain experiences led to the cultivation. and culmination of me creating this podcast, which feels very aligned and fulfilled and purpose-driven for you as a former U.S. Marine Corps and structure in nuclear biological chemical warfare, which is a mouthful and sounds terrifying. But I want to dive into how your story, first and foremost, I want to dive into how you went from there to like the certain experiences that led you to where you are now. and how we can continue to refine who we desire to be and the path essentially of getting there and the teleological destination of that. So kind of a lot to unpack there, but maybe we could first start off with a little bit of your story. Okay. And then we can kind of tie into

seeing how the threads and the points connect to bringing us to really discovering who we are. Okay. I'm happy to do so. I tend not to talk too much about my own past and simply not being too self-absorbed or too self-obsessed in these things, but I'm happy to share the basics, particularly as it would relate to things that may be helpful for other people. We'll get right back to the episode, but first, I want to share with you guys this incredible holistic wellness brand that has a huge range of evidence-based products to optimize your life in many, many ways. Their name is Bon Charge, and some of my favorite products from them are their red light devices. Basically every single day for the past three years, when I meditate

in the morning, I do it in front of a red light device. Red light therapy has over 4,000 peer-reviewed studies, many of which show how it helps with skin health, acne, wrinkles, sore muscles, wound healing, low testosterone, sleep, relaxation. The list literally goes on and on. And I personally feel like it's a great way to get healthy light in the morning before sunrise and especially on cloudy days. I feel it helps me get deeper in my meditations. And it's nice because the bigger lights, they radiate warmth and heat. And so it feels nice and cozy as well. Bond Charge is a great option for red light devices because they have the lowest EMF on the market and there's no flicker.

It has near infrared and red light in one device. They're easy with returns and exchanges. And also they have an array of other science-backed wellness products to check out. You can go to bondcharge.com and use coupon code. know thyself to say 15% off that's b-o-n-c-h-a-r-r-g-e dot com and use coupon and know-thyself for 15% off back to the episode and so with the way people often will begin to approach my origin story is with the time that I had in the marine corps which I joined when I was 20 in the nuclear biological chemical warfare defense field. Now, what you'll often find when you study your own

karmic biography is that there are times that we have certain internal impulses to do something, to be with someone, to go somewhere, and sometimes we're not completely clear of why that is. I would find this very often, living in certain places, and I ask people, oh, why did you move here? And they would say, well, I don't really know, but I just knew I had to. And so what happens is that when we are getting impulses from higher up the column from what we might refer to in a general sense as our higher self, but also spiritual beings that assist us and our higher self, if we haven't developed to the point that we can receive those impulses fully consciously, what will happen is that they

will come into our subconscious. And so it'll become a type of will impulse. What would be conceptually clear if we had enough activation of the higher centers is not conceptually clear, but instead it goes down from the consciousness through the feeling and it goes into the will and it activates our will. I need to go here. I need to do this thing. We don't always know why. Now of course we can also have destructive will impulses, so we always have to examine them and see that it actually has that vibrational quality that we associate with something real and true and not just some lower impulse or reactive mind type of thing. But for myself, this was something that I had a very strong impulse at that time,

number one, to go through a military initiation experience, and number two, to spend time in Japan. Now, although it wasn't completely clear to me at that time, in the fullness of time, looking back, it becomes clear that these were both carmic impulses and so again I'm presenting it this way because I think it may be of help to other people

to understand these types of things in their own life so because I had had so many prior lifetimes either in monastic circles or in the military and in fact these two ways of life are deeply deeply connected they both tend to be in a particular type of sequestered environment they're very purpose driven, they're very disciplined.

They have a lot of overlap. So you'll find that people sometimes alternate lifetimes between military and monastic because of the inner qualities of that. Again, we'll hopefully switch it up with other things. Don't want to get too stuck in a rut. But for myself, that was a very important foundation for my internal structure.

And so one of the keys to understanding our karmic biography is to be able to see that we have all of these gifts and powers that we developed in previous lifetimes. But we may not have had any chance in the current lifetime to have the experiences to recapitulate whatever was vital in that experience and to remember what these particular sitas or powers that we developed previous. were. And so there's another great Rosicrucian initiation saying, which is in the beginning was the memory. And so this is all the process of remembering and in the remembering, reclaiming the power of those sitas we've developed before. So for myself, part of that was to go into the military and to experience that. But I knew that it wasn't something like for my whole lifetime. It was something that I needed to do for a short period of time, so I enlisted for the shortest amount of time possible, a six-year contract, three years active. Because I knew I

needed to have the experience, but I didn't want to stay there forever. Again, I didn't have all of the spiritual clarity on that that I have now, but that part at least was clear to me. Then the other part of that is that I knew I needed to go to Japan. And again, this has particular karmic foundations to it. There's a particular quality that you have in the culture in Japan. Like any culture, it has its shadow side, and the shadow sides of Japanese culture can be quite dark. But that's because many of the positive sides, the light is very bright. And so having grown up in the deep south of the United States is a very different experience than the type of Japanese cultural energy. And I knew I needed to reconnect to that level of

subtlety and clarity that's held in some of the culture. So, long story short, put those pieces together. If you have no money and you want to live in Japan and you're going to join the military and you live in the U.S., then the thing to do is join the U.S. Marine Corps and go to the bases in Japan. And so that's what I did. Now, when we do these things, there are things we do not intend that then will come in. And my example of that is I did not intend to become a nuclear biological chemical warfare defense specialist. When I was told after boot camp that was my destination, I was a no, this is terrible.

This is the last thing I want to do. I want nothing to do with any of that. But as it turned out, it was something very, very important. I was assigned to it because of what my test scores were in boot camp. And they needed people in that field at that time. They got people with the highest test scores. They put them in that field. but what it turned out to be in the longer run was to get number one an understanding of the sobriety of the current challenge that we have in the world

that the misuse of modern science and technology has created weapons which could destroy all life on earth many times over which simply did not exist a few generations ago it's a very new development we couldn't destroy the world a few generations ago now we can. And that was then also linked up to the fact that being in that field, I had to look at the practical applications of biology, chemistry, and physics. And so that's basically the way the world works. And in studying that, I was able to find these documents from NATO and other sources that didn't study biology, chemistry, and physics from a mathematical perspective.

because as I often say, most people today have post-traumatic stress disorder from high school math and want nothing to do with it. But instead, what these documents did is they analyzed all natural systems according to pure shape information, according to pure geometry. And geometry is something that unites both the left and right hemispheres of the brain, if we're going to use a simplification from modern physiology. It works with both the intuition and the intellectual mind. And it's something extremely powerful.

And so it's something that anyone could learn and grok very quickly, seeing what the actual patterns are? What is the pattern that makes iron? What is the pattern that makes a particular medicine or a chemical? Everything is based on pattern information. And so this was my introduction to what became my work in sacred geometry. So, for example, in my Gaia TV series, when I go into detail on the five platonic solids, the perfect divisions of the sphere and how they connect to all the elements that make up the Earth,

I talk about my discovery at that time, which is not something that's classified, that looking at non-classified documents of the form of the first nuclear weapon, that you find that after you take out the external cladding of the first nuclear bomb, which looked like a sphere, when you take that off, you'll find that the interior of it is a pure dodecahedron, which was the geometric form

taught in the old Egyptian and Greek mystery schools as the form for what the Greeks called the ether, the dynamic life force, and they wouldn't teach it publicly. They said that the misuse of this form would create incredible forces of destruction

because it's linked to the ether. And so this played out in human history about 70 years ago in the Manhattan Project, where they found that to get the critical mass of the first nuclear weapon required creating the exact sacred geometric form that the Greeks had warned about 2,500 years previously. And so this was something where I began to see the power of pattern. And this is something important for every aspect of life. Many of us have had incarnations in different spiritual traditions,

where we learned about certain patterns that have to do, with human personal development, spiritual development, the structuring of the subtle bodies, but also everything we do in the world. There's a pattern to humanity learning agriculture, to learning how to create physical tools, to all of the new fields we have today, including nanotechnology, where now we can create matter atom by atom. All these things are based on a study of pattern. So this is my attempt then to show the beginning of the, a biographical story in a way that hopefully illuminates for people the way to look at life processes as something in your own life that will illuminate some of the choices you've made, things

you've been drawn to examining it in this light. So this then led to my going to the university and getting a PhD in international studies, which allowed me not only to study the politics, economics, culture of traditions all over the world, but also on the side I was able to study their spiritual knowledge, their spiritual practices, what they did to develop consciousness and energy to higher levels, and that was absolutely essential for the work that became clear to me that I wanted to do. And that then led to when I finally got my PhD to then creating the Vesica Institute for Holistic Studies, knowing that I wanted to be able to share with people the larger context of the pieces of self-development work, of spiritual knowledge, of energetic development

that were becoming available at that time, but that were so fragmented, it was hard to know how to put the pieces together in a coherent way. And so that was then the creation of the Vesca Institute, and deciding that the way to represent this was with the form of the Vesica, the two overlapping circles that create a spiritual portal between the two of them as they overlap, which often today referred to as a Venn diagram. But what that really is is showing that it's always two opposite complementary polarities that come together to create a portal for us to move to a higher level. There's an alchemy with opposite polarities that allows an opening to the spiritual world

in a profound way. And this then manifests through all types of things, not only our relationships with people, including romantic relationships, but also for very practical applications such as meditation is not just active meditation or receptive meditation. It's got to be the cyclical moving through both types, and that's when the two polarities come together. Then when we start going to the structuring of the human energy body, we have other applications of this principle, etc. So that is a short summary of how I got to where I am. today and looking at one's lifetime from the

karmic biography perspective to see what might be pulling us towards certain experiences that will need to regain the knowledge of who am i why am i here what is the purpose of the current incarnation and what are the sitas or skills that i have from previous incarnations that i may need to do certain things in this lifetime to bring that knowledge and experience back up into full activity. And again, this is something that leads to a whole body of practices and knowledge of examining the things

that you are naturally good at, that you're naturally interested in, those that you have instead a great antipathy toward or that you have no interest in or mean nothing to you. They're all markers for who we are, what we've done before, and what we're being pulled toward. Did you have a predominant spiritual, experience that really shifted your desire to deepen the study and the sharing of it because

I see the I guess overlap and you being such a devoted student to a lot of the spiritual study and learning that alongside your PhD. I think it's really profound the reference to like these intuitive hits that like allow us to regain memory of who we are and what we're here to do because I reflect on that and my own journey makes a lot of sense my decision to move out to California or start videography or out of the blue take of a pasana or like these things that really shaped who I am and like helped me discover more of who I am. I think it's very useful and a lot of our listeners will relate to that. But there had to have been a series or predominant moments where you had an experience that that really helped you stay devoted to, you know,

your life's work at this point. So I'm just curious, is there one that sticks out as a predominant spiritual experience? There have been quite a few when I was still fairly young. My parents took the family on a trip to Britain and I have certain experiences at certain very magical sites in Britain, places like Lastonbury, Tentadjel, these types of things, places where part of the Celtic tradition have very powerful anchors for certain spiritual forces. Even things like growing up listening to like Led Zeppelin IV. I believe Led Zeppelin for is a great expression of the Celtic folk spirit and some of the amazing music that was brought through because the folk spirit of any particular tradition is expressed through art and music and land energies and

all kinds of things. So that was something quite significant for me. I had certain experiences in Japan about the energies and cultural powers that exist there. After I got out of the Marine Corps, I had a very powerful spiritual experience. Oh, it turned out to be the summer solstice, but at that time, I wasn't tuned into any of that, and I didn't know anything about the summer solstice. But you'll sometimes find that there are things put into popular art or media that act as triggers for us. And so, for me, one of those major triggers was the first movie, June, that came out in 1984 and was directed by David Lynch. And some people may not be aware of the fact that David Lynch has been a practicing

Buddhist for many, many years and is very knowledgeable about some of their higher spiritual activities and such. And so when he created that first film of Dune and he showed what happened when Paul Atreides took the spice melange on Aracus that opened up his spiritual perception, the way that he put it together with the visual and sound design is tremendously powerful. So he shows just the blackness of space and there's a type of low roar in the background, like what you'll experience in certain types of deeper spiritual experiences. There's like a background astral sound. And so you have this blackness of space, that kind of sound of the energy in the background. And then an illuminated hand

comes out of space and says sleeper must awaken. And that's like one of these trigger moments in Polatradis' experience, but the way it was done by David Lynch had the experience for me watching it, I didn't know it, on the summer solstice, that when that illuminated hand came out of space and said, Sleeper must awaken, I could feel something in the center of my head open up like a lotus flower. And it just opened up a tremendous amount of spiritual perception that evening. and so these are just some examples of some of the things that I've had but hopefully it's an ongoing thing

that really put me on the path in a much stronger way it really opened me up very deeply but it's a type of thing where I try to make time every year multiple times a year to give myself time away from people away from work time for a vision space where I can go into a type of deep inner isolation and touch that spiritual spark again and be completely focused on the inner world and the connection up the column to these beings, which I try to remain conscious of all the time. Again, this is the type of thing that can become somewhat sensationalized or superficial, but simply something that should be in the background of our consciousness at all time, just as the people that surround us may tell us things like, oh, you should be aware of this.

If we're really conscious and we're connected up the column, we'll get that type of guidance on a regular basis from the beings that we're connected to. Again, we have to make sure it doesn't slide over into psychosis or some type of mental illness. Steiner once said that clairvoyance is like a finely controlled form of psychosis. So it does require a certain inner discipline and not go off the deep end with it.

But I do try to take that vision space multiple times a year to return to that original inspiration because I find if I don't then just trying to make my way in the world dealing with all the challenges of physical external life that it's easy to have the experience that Gurdjeev described as a spiritual path turning back on itself until I'm going

the opposite direction I thought I was going. And so to make sure that life doesn't have to give me extremely painful shocks at certain times I'll try to put the time aside for the vision space to run. reconnect to the impulse, the inspiration, and the vision of the next stage. So my last statement on that will be, I think it's also very important people to understand that we do our best to be very conscious at the moment of what the spiritual significance of a particular thing happening

in our life might be. But sometimes it's simply not possible to be fully conscious of how important it is or how significant it is. This is something that will reveal itself over time. And so we have to be aware that sometimes we simply have to follow that true, authentic will impulse. Like, I don't really want to do this, but I know I have to go to this place at this time and do this thing or whatever that might be. It's very important to follow that. And then later, in many cases, you'll get the context for why that was necessary or what was so significant about it. So let me just end by just mentioning a very important Rosicrucian spiritual practice that's connected. to this whole topic, and that's called the backward review exercise.

The backward review exercise is where at the end of the day, before we go to sleep, we close our eyes and we go through the entire events of the day in backward order, starting at that moment that we're in bed, closing our eyes. But it was like we're running the film strip backwards, and we're looking at all the events of the day. Now, I could discuss this particular practice for hours, but just a few very quick hallmarks of it. Number one, running it backwards allows you to see cause and effect in opposite order,

which makes certain things much clearer to us than they are from our seeing it in the forward progression. Sometimes unintended consequences of choices we made, whether they are acts of commission, things that we did that sometimes we realize we shouldn't have done, things we shouldn't have said or actions we shouldn't have taken, or acts of omission, things that we didn't do that we should have done, will become very clear when you see it in backward order. It can also help us to become aware of where we missed certain opportunities. Certain things came up where we could have met a certain person

or gone to a particular place or had some certain experience, but we didn't do it. We may have even been introduced to a person at a particular place, but we were so distracted by something else going on at the time. We're like, oh, hey, how's it going? And you don't realize this was an important car. meeting and then the guardian angel has to work out with their guardian angel trying to get you to cross paths again and it's like oh it's unusual i'm meeting this person again two days later because it's like well you missed it the first time you need to be conscious of the significance of that

this time so it really helps to open up our perception in the moment of certain spiritual opportunities gateways that are opening up for us that we need to pay attention to and again this is all part of this whole thing of understanding our karmic biography when those moments of spiritual dispensation are happening on a daily basis and becoming aware of what we need to pay attention to, things like

that. First off, there's a lot to unpack there, which is really beautiful. It's really cool that Dune was a point of inspiration for you too. I mean, I've just seen the recent movies which I absolutely love and all, there's so many messages hidden within all of it. And it makes sense that the original writer

had such a deep meditation practice or was a Buddhist because even the first line of the first movie, the newer ones was dreams are messages from the deep. And you see all these analogies like with the Benny Jesuits and so many reflections about the human nature and human spirit throughout all of it and psychedelics and in the second movie, spoiler for people that didn't watch,

but when he drinks, is it the water of life, the blue liquid? he gets all these visions and like the psychotropic space and about his destiny and I think it you know there's so many beautiful points of inspiration in media and art like you spoke to you that help us kind of remember who we are and what we really value and one thing that I really loved about where you shared is creating that vision space because for me my own personal journey that's been something I've also very stayed very committed to is like even before creating this podcast I. dip to

Esselin and Big Sur, I don't know if you've been there, but incredible. Oh man, it's like heaven on earth. You got to go. It's so beautiful to have all these natural hot springs

and this forest that I may have snuck into because he was close at the time. But like six days, because I felt the magnitude of what could be created with the show, I wanted to give myself space to really be in that listening

and sounds like very analogous and a lot of sympathico with what you've done and continued to do throughout your life and is a powerful reminder for people to allow space for that listening and those intuitive hits of like kind of what's comically becoming remembered. And that allows us to stay on track in a way with our teleological destination, which is an interesting thought that there is a place we're going to that has yet to be realized,

but we are still creating our path. It's a interesting and tough to digest concept when rationalizing it through. time space and kind of linear reality. But looking back, even like in the backward, like, practice going back through your day, you could do that through life also, like on a more macro scale and seeing how all the dots connect backwards. And it makes perfect sense. Of course, when you look back. But it's like, how can we in ways have foresight into those dots that are yet to come in a way and how we can align and find harmony with staying on track with that? So I just think that creating the space and the vision space to listen is a really important reminder to stay on that path.

And that's when we can get like you're talking about when Paul Atradis takes the water of life and these types of things. That when we do the vision space, it really is creating the time that we get quiet enough to hear the information coming from up the column from the beings that are with us. what we think of as being our higher self is actually in the column and it is somewhat taken care of by these other beings while we're going through our earthly physical experience. We're connected to it, but unless we've reached the level of a saint, we're not connected to the consciousness of our higher self all the time.

So it's a time that we reconnect to our higher self, to that higher perspective, and receive the conversation of these higher beings to give us these inspirations like, again, In the film, Paul Atradis gets when he sees the images of his future, of what's possible. And that's something that I think we are constantly looking for art that's going to be reactivated in us. I know back in the 70s for a lot of people, Star Wars and the concept of the Jedi Knights was very important for people. Over time, getting other screenwriters in that didn't understand that impulse.

Not a lot of that's been lost. but we now have, you know, Duna's come back. That's something that has a lot of these types of anchors in it as well. So there'll always be art that helps to activate in people a memory about getting a vision space, getting that inspiration. And I think that's incredibly important. So you find in many, of course, native traditions, the idea of a vision space, that you need the time to go do this.

So I think are making it a value in our current society. and life is something incredibly important. And again, you pointed to two directions of it. When you're doing the vision space, there's a part of it of backward review, not just of the last day, but of the complete lifetime. And seeing all the different aspects of the current lifetime and doing the Rosicrucian dissolving practice with it, where you dissolve the external appearance of that particular part of your life and reveal behind it what the what the spiritual impulse was, what the spiritual purpose was, behind going there, doing this, that relationship,

this challenge in life, whatever it is, dissolving away the external part of it, and our reaction to it to just be the pure essence of what was the purpose of this in that larger context. Just like when we dissolve away things like, I'm attracted to this and I'm repelled by that, I naturally understand this thing. I don't understand or care about that.

These are all things that once you dissolve it in an internal alchemical act of consciousness, you'll then begin to see, oh, this is something about who I am. This is how I've structured my subtle bodies. And so looking backward, you start to get the sense of the recapitulation in this lifetime of certain things from the past,

although we may have a different gender, may have a different physical appearance, we may be in a different race, we may have a very different life situation than we had before. Those keys to what makes us, are still there that we can find through observation. So there's the backward aspect of it, but then there's also the forward aspect. And so this comes from the Rosicrucian activity that Steiner often refers to in the work of Gerta, where he talks about how important Gerta's work on the metamorphosis of plants is. Sometimes people when they see that in Steiner's works, why is Steiner talking about this old German poet Goethe and the metamorphosis of plants? What significance does that have? And it's

significant because the metamorphosis process that we can observe in a plant is something that shows us how things develop from a seed into sprouting and growing and developing and fruiting and all of these things. And we can apply the same observation over time to see patterns. in time. Everyone's life is a pattern in time, just like sacred geometry tends to be studied as patterns in space, but we create patterns in time as well. All of our lifetimes are a pattern in time that's leading to the growth from the seed, etc., to what's going to be our teleological destination. That's when we're fully blossoming and fruiting. So we can see that having gone through this in the past and being at this stage right now, this next thing I need to work on,

We can sometimes see in the vision space, I need to work on this thing right now. I've avoided working on it for lifetimes because I feel very awkward in that area. I feel very ignorant and stupid in that area. It's a place where I've embarrassed myself and had horrible experiences multiple times, but I know I need to work in that area now. Could be anything. Maybe certain types of relationships, maybe public speaking, maybe simply coming forward and speaking your truth to the people around you about who you really are. It could be any number of things. But that backward review to say, I've gone on this path and I'm here now, you'll sometimes see what the next step needs to be.

And in other cases, in deep vision space where you've really attained clear mind state and you're at that maximal activation in consciousness that you can get the communication down the column to show you these inspirations for these things to come. And they'll often, as you get the visual or other types of information in that vision space, it'll be accompanied by a certain emotional feeling. It's often a wonderful emotional feeling of being like reconnected to the source and reconnected to your own core and reconnected to the excitement and possibilities of physical incarnation. I'm only here for a short time. I should take better advantage of it than I'm tending to do right now being pulled down by the weight of all of. of my physical world obligations and the way that things have been constructed to tie us up. So I really find that these are parts of that vision space experience to keep us conscious,

keep us activated, keep us on the path. Have examination of the dream state been a part of your own personal path? I'm just curious because all the unconscious material that all of a sudden has space to be expressed without emotional charge or attachment and we experience in the dream state or lucid dream state I feel like are very revealing to things that are either being suppressed

or can be intuitive hits for directions to go and I'd just be curious for you to reflect on the reality of what's going on in the dream state and the state that we have access to. Yes, there's a lot of fascinating aspects to it when I lived for a year at the Clear Vision School of Australia which was taught at that time by its founder, Dr. Samuel Sagan, who was a French medical doctor

as well as an initiate in that lifetime of Kria Yoga in the Hamalias where he worked as a Sanskrit, I think French translator. But he started the Clarvasion School of Australia and he had a lot of brilliant ideas about modern initiation principles. So one thing he talked about is that when you're doing meditation and you're having spiritual experiences. If something only comes up for you one time in your visioning space, a lot of times don't need to worry about it too much. All types of ephemeral content will come and go. But if something keeps repeating itself, then that's something to really pay attention to. So this is that can be true

when we are in higher states of consciousness and meditation and accessing this information. Same thing is true with the dream life. One thing I find to be one of the most important parts of my own spiritual practice and work is to try to organize my life so that if I have to get up at a certain time and I'm setting the alarm, I will set the alarm for a time that has enough lead time before I have to go get up and do something that I can stay in bed for at least 15 minutes. Because it's in that initial moment when you wake up and you're still partially connected to the dream state that you can still remember what the content was in the dream state. Otherwise, if you just immediately start going out and about and rushing around, you can completely forget everything you just received.

So you have to hold that twilight state between waking and sleeping after you turn off the alarm, hit the snooze button, that you go back into that state and you become conscious of what is that content. And sometimes it has very powerful information and impulses to share with us. Other times it's all types of crazy psychedelic kaleidoscopic things that are us trying to process the events of daily life. But giving ourselves that time, first thing in the morning, to wake up slowly and to bring the content from that other state of consciousness into our waking awareness, I find is a very, very important practice. I've definitely realized the importance and the effect that it has on the rest of the day, both what, impressions happen on my conscious and subconscious mind the night before within like 30 minutes or an hour falling asleep and then the waking up the next morning. And the yogic system really understand the importance of guarding what the synchars or the impressions that you

accumulate as they build momentum in the subconscious mind and where we're most receptive are in those that the window before and after sleep. And so it's an important reflection, you know, one to see to create that spaciousness right when you wake up to examine what just happened in the dream state, which might be that ephemeral one-time example of just a weird circumstance that happened in your dream that is a recombination of some emotional material that wasn't processed the day before. But also oftentimes, like, because there isn't this conscious filter of what should and shouldn't be there. can receive messages that can lead to profound changes and your decisions in your daily waking life. Absolutely, I would agree. And this also connects, you know, to the core principle

from Patanjali's work in the Yoga Sutras, where you essentially say that yoga is the stilling of the oscillations of the mental substance. It's that time that we can be still and quiet and listening enough to pick this up and that emergence from the dream state is one of those times. So any other things that we want to reflect on here around the cultivation of the subtle body and the self-observation process

because we spoke to the importance of creating that vision space or just time to be still and quiet away from people in the world and technology and the realization that it's not just what we do in the world, but the state of consciousness in which we do it because that infuses everything we do in the world. And what we do and how we do it in the world is affected by who we are in our subtle body, you know, and that affects us in the more dense physical reality. So we spoke to a little bit about this process of self-observation to see what are the contents in my thinking, an emotional body. Any other reflections to just dive a little bit deeper into the desire to want to become somebody who is vibrant, who is doing our Darmic duty.

in spreading love in the world and whatever our service is and the desire to mature spiritually in our subtle body, how can we really observe ourselves in a way in our daily practical day-to-day life that will allow us to become more conscious? Again, for me, this is really summarized in what the Rosicrucrucans call the six essential exercises. So we touched on those earlier in this conversation and a bit in our practice. previous conversation. We also mentioned that that's one of the things I go into great detail on in my online course, essential teachings and practices of spiritual science. I put it very intentionally

as a major part of that very first beginning set of practices, because as the Rosicrucians talk about, these are really the essential practices to create a strong foundation for real spiritual growth and permanent development. That's not just ephemeral. And it also has the effect of helping to counteract the destructive effects of other things that we encounter in our daily life. Or that certain other types of occult practices may have on our consciousness and energy body. So if we look at the six essential exercises, again, we observe the content of everything we think and everything that we feel emotionally and every will impulse, we take in the world. We simply observe it in like a Zen Buddhist mindfulness type of thing. We don't try to change it. We don't try to manipulate it. And that's where we get the terror of the situation

where we see just how dysfunctional a lot of our thoughts and emotions and actions really are, how destructive and reactive they are. But that's essential that we have that. We don't want to sugarcoat it or try to change it while we're observing it. Things when they're observed, like little kids are on their best behavior. It's when they're not observed. that they run riot. So we have to do that with our own internal life. We have to observe it when it's running riot. And that's the hardest time to do it.

That's when we want to fall into emotional reactivity and be angry at people and scream at people and throw things around and act out in various ways. That's the time that we have the greatest victory when we can get quiet and observe that state. And simply the observation of it puts the reactive charge out of it. And then, of course, after we've observed,

these things, then we have the conscious direction of them to where they should be, consciously directing our thoughts to be, like they would say in Buddhism, to have the thoughts of the Buddha. And in their system, they use the triple secret, which is to generate the thoughts of the Buddha, the speech of the Buddha, the actions of the Buddha. And in the Rosicrucian system, it's the thinking, feeling, and willing. So we're generating the thinking of the Christ, of the Buddha, of the enlightened master, of ourselves at the end of the process of teleological destination. And same thing to have the feelings of that enlightened state and to have the actions and will impulses of the things that we would do in that enlightened state. And so the observation stage is the first stage, then the conscious direction of the things.

thinking, feeling, and willing is the next stage. Now let's connect that to what actually happens behind the scenes and our subtle bodies when we do this. Now, this is one of the great gaps that we have today in spiritual education. Quick side note, one of the greatest releases of deep spiritual information that's happened in the last 40-odd years has been the very deep knowledge of the internal alchemy practices from the Chinese Taoist tradition, now becoming available after being hidden for thousands of years. Very, very powerful, potent information.

And so in these deeper alchemical practices, there's an understanding about the structuring of the subtle bodies in particular ways. And so they have a great mapping of the energy channels of the body, the key energy flows in the body, things of this kind. Now, if we have that deepened understanding of the human subtle body, and again, now looking at it from a Rosicrucian perspective, we need to be aware that every thought that we generate, every feeling we generate, every action or will impulse that we have, is something that

creates a force. That force is based on a particular energy flow in the body or in an energy center in the body or on a focal point linked to a gland, organ, or physiological structure in the body. If we understand that, then we'll know that we are structuring our subtle body with every thought, every feeling, and every action that we take. And so through repetition, like water wearing away a stone. It'll put a pattern into it. So through repetition of particular types of thoughts, particular types of feelings, particular types of action, we'll start creating stabilized structures in the subtle body that will then potentially become permanent. And again, the key thing to emphasize here is that is the pearl of great price. That is the only thing we take with us

through the gate of death. We're not going to take the physical body with us. We could have spent our entire life doing physical weightlifting and making the physical body very strong and flexible. And all that would be great. It's fantastic for our vehicle here in physical life. Not saying anything against it. But you're not taking that with you. What you're going to take with you is the way you structured the subtle body through every thought, through every feeling, and through every action. Now, we know in modern holistic medicine that there's a very deep link between what people think and they feel and the various types of neurotransmitters they create and the various types of secretions from the endocrine glands that they create. It may be

stress hormones. It may be more healing things in our own biological factory that we're creating over time. And there's a very deep understanding in holistic circles about what sometimes referred to as the cancer personality. That certain types of emotional states will lead itself to creating cancer. In fact, the work of Hamer in Germany and what he called the new German medicine is all about the emotional bases of health and illness. So this is something very deeply connected. It's not just that we can create illness in our physical life from how we're using our thoughts and our feelings and our actions, although that's definitely the case, is that at a deeper level, things that may not be that destructive, may

still be somewhat destructive to the subtle energy patterns that we're creating. And again, through inner observation of the thinking, feeling, and willing, and then the direction of them, what we're really doing at that point is we're tuning the thinking, feeling, and willing. So that each one of them is now a vibratory resonant field connected at a very higher level to incredibly powerful beneficial regenerating energies. So seeing it from this perspective, we can begin to understand that in daily life,

everything we think, feel, and do is structuring the subtle body is going to affect us and make what becomes our permanent self, the thing we take through the gate of death and we'll have to deal with in the next lifetime. So the investment you make in yourself in this lifetime will pay tremendous dividends in the next lifetime. It's one of the most important things you can do

because you can't take your money or your physical body with you or your physical possessions. That's what you're taking with you. That's the real investment. Now, looking at it from that perspective, we can then take a look at the way that different spiritual traditions around the world will train their initiates to particular types of spiritual practices

that will structure their subtle bodies in different ways. So we need to be aware of that there are certain universalities in different beneficial classical spirit traditions around the world, whether it's the Hindu tradition or the Buddhist tradition or the Christian tradition or the Sufi tradition or whatever it might be. There's certain universals that have to do with healthy thinking, feeling, and willing, various types of energetic activities that are very, very beneficial, the opening up consciousness to a higher spiritual level of connecting ourselves back to the one and not simply to the world of fragmentation.

These things are universal. They have to be on every spiritual path. They're the essence of everything. But beyond that, different traditions will focus on different specific pieces of information. And from a higher perspective, this goes back to what the Rosicrucians talk about with the Age of Archangel Mikhail.

Age of Archangel Michael is connected to this understanding that in the original primal nosis, you had a universal body of spiritual knowledge that somewhat metaphorically, that universal spiritual knowledge through the activity of Archangel Michael broke up and fell onto different parts of the earth, just like a meteor might break up into meteorites and fall in different parts of the earth. The spiritual wisdom came to different parts of the earth. The spiritual wisdom came to different parts of the earth. And so they became the guardians of different specific pieces of initiation knowledge and practices. So there are things that you can learn in the advanced levels of Taoist yoga that you will not learn in other traditions.

There are things in advanced levels of Kria yoga and the Hamayas that you will not learn in other traditions. There are things in the advanced levels of Rosicruccian initiation that you will not learn in other traditions. Why? because their understanding that every spiritual tradition, and this is another great formulation by Samuel Sagan de Claire Vision School, is a particular group of physical human beings and non-physical spiritual beings working together for a common goal. And one of those aspects of the common goal

is to create a group of initiates that can take action on the earth that have their subtle bodies structured in such a way that they can achieve a certain thing. So, for example, in the Rosicrucian tradition, there's an extremely advanced level of work of creating a type of new clairvoyance that's making logical, linear thinking, clairvoyant. That's more advanced in the Rosicrucian tradition

than any other tradition on the planet, by far. You're not going to find that kind of deep Steinarian discussion of what this is in any other tradition. It just doesn't exist there. And so it's not a matter of, of one tradition being better than another. It's a matter of they all have like their own key secrets and key aspects of structuring the subtle bodies. And so what we have today during the age of Mikael understood from the Rosicrucian perspective that since around 1879, we've been

in a 300 plus year cycle of the archangelic ages where we're in the age of Archangel Mikael for about 300 years after 1879, so we're in that right now. Now, that's why we're seeing a release of information from spiritual traditions all over the planet that hadn't happened before. No other time in recorded history were all of these secret teachings made public today. And like I was saying, it wasn't until the 1980s that the deep knowledge of the Chinese internal alchemy and Taoism began to be made public. It's very, very hidden before that. And then we discussed that in our last podcast about the blessing and the curse that we have today, the blessing that we have so much incredible previously hidden information

available to us, but the curse that it's so fragmented that people often don't put together a workable spiritual path out of it that's going to create the permanent transformation of the subtle body that will go past the gate of death. So having laid that out, then we have this understanding then with the current age of Mikhail that all of this spiritual information is becoming available and we can harvest from it very, very deep insights and information to help put together this new universal nois. Now, different individuals may still be a part primarily of a particular spiritual tradition. So you'll often find people may grow up in a particular part of the world in a particular spiritual tradition, but then when they get older, it's like

when you knew them when they were 12, they were a Southern Baptist, or they're from an Indian family, and so they were Hindu, or whatever it might be. But then you like meet them when they're in the mid-30s, and now like, no, I'm this other thing, because that's what was natural to them. That's what made sense to them. That's where their inner connections are. That's what the beings on their spiritual team up the column are a part of. That's what is part of their trajectory in the structuring of the subtle body. So there's, again, this beautiful dance that we need to do as spiritual seekers in the present day to be able to access freely outside of any dogma or any control structure of any religion or group, deep, very beneficial

knowledge and practices from multiple traditions that are going to help to serve us on our particular path and trajectory. But at the same time, also get some clarity about what is your core path. What have you worked at? in the past, who are you actually connected to up the column? So for me, it was a matter of becoming very clear. I was very connected to the Rosicrucian tradition. But the Rosicrucian tradition in its current formulation didn't exist a thousand years ago. So what was I then? So this is where we begin to see that there are movements over time where certain traditions will turn into other traditions. So there's an aspect where the Egyptian tradition moved into the Jewish and Greek

Kabbalah, into the Ascenes, into the Holy Grail tradition of Europe, then into the Rosicrucian tradition. And so this is a particular trajectory. Now at the same time, just add a little more flavor to it, put some more spice in the stew, we'll find that we have certain incarnations that are outside of that. So like for myself, certain ones that are outside of Europe, Egyptian, etc., that that are part of, for example, Eastern incarnations. And those can also be very, very powerful. So this is an attempt to have a more mature discussion than we often have in metaphysical circles today

about that influence of the universal noses and the free acquisition of knowledge from all these different traditions. That's one part of our work, remembering who we are and what's our primary tradition and what beings are already connected with us in our multi-incarnational structuring of the subtle bodies, that is a key to what we're moving toward

in our teleological destination because not only does every thought and feeling and action that you take create a energy movement and activation in some part of your subtle body it'll activate a certain chakra but it'll sedate another one it'll activate with a particular vibration a certain gland in the body

but may sedate another one we have that going on but we also have the aspect that every spiritual practice that we do, every form of meditation that we do, every energetic practice that we do, is also structuring the subtle body. And so this is what I was referencing

at the very beginning of this discussion, and now we've come back to it to make sense of it, that, for example, many times when people are learning some of the Taoist internal alchemy, what they'll teach them are things like, do this chi-com practice and move your hands like this type of thing. But what they should be being taught, is you need to feel an energy movement coming through the heart that is now moving inside the body

to activate the kidneys and then going from the kidneys to this place to this place. This is then creating a flow of the dynamic life force from the kidneys through the chest, out the arms, so that that external movement that is being described is not about just waving your hands here and there, is that your body is now following the flow of the energy in these directions. The key thing is not the waving of the hands or for the physical body externally is doing. It's the internal movement. The internal movement puts things in motion, puts things into activity. The physical body is just following the flow. So if we can understand that when we're taught some of these deep practices, that's the core of it. And to then realize that again, every

thought, every feeling, every action is creating a flow, an energy movement in the energy body that then get stabilized into these structures. And that then becomes our understanding for how we develop ourselves with all these different considerations we just covered to get the most out of this lifetime, to have crystallized the subtle body structures the best that we can, to move into the next lifetime, which will be the next bead on the chain to get to the destination. So this, to me, goes nicely into sacred geometry. because with every physical reality

there is a non-physical or energetic counterpart and a sacred geometric structure I think you talked a little bit about with Patanjali and the discovery of yoga and these different asana practices whether you hold your hand in a certain way like every move you make

is a different kind of asana which has a different correlation to its more subtle counterparts and this also ties into our physical body where we have like a hand up versus a hand down that'll have different correlation to our subtle body, but then also in our physical body of like the diaphragm changing. It's how open it is and long depth of breath and different things like that, which I think are

important to realize how neurotic most people are in their physical body and how it's changing so much within their subtle energies that actually affect their neurosis mentally. And they're very, somebody you can't like sit still and like look, you know, and have clarity and listen in their physical body is like, it's a physical example of manifestation of what's happening mentally as well, which is interesting. I'd love for you to share a little bit. So everything that we just spoke to has a sacred geometric counterpart. And before we dive into that a little bit more,

I'd love for you to just give a definition, if you were to describe to a 10th grader of like, what is sacred geometry before we dive a little bit deeper into it, if you will. So I think one of the most important things to understand about what sacred geometry really is, is simply the study of patterns. Everything has a pattern behind it. The way we use our mind, the way we use our emotions, the relationships that we create,

all of our activities in the world, everything in life has a pattern. And then when we deal with any type of actual physical manifest thing, what manifested it was a specific energy pattern. We learned that today in biology, chemistry, and physics. Look at the book General Chemistry by Linus Pauling. And you'll see the illustration of what are the actual chemical structures behind all physically manifest things in front of you. This is something of great significance.

So no matter what part of life you're working on, whether it's material science or whether it is on self-development, it's all based on a particular pattern. If you can begin to learn what the most functional patterns are, then you can craft your life into anything. You can form your physical body. You can form your energetic body. Every aspect of your life is based on pattern. And so it's all a matter of getting out of the reactive mind dysfunctional patterns to become very conscious and clear about what is the correct pattern for our thinking, feeling, actions in the world.

And then sky's the limit. The world becomes a magical place and every moment in this limited time opportunity becomes an amazing playground of things that we can experience and explore and create and help ourselves and other people with. Now, if we go into the technical side of sacred geometry, then literally the name is sacred geometry. So geo is the earth. Metry is measurement. So it's the sacred measurement of the earth.

And what that really means is it is understanding the non-physical, spiritual energy and consciousness patterns behind everything that creates our experience. in earthly incarnation. So sacred geometry applies to everything. It's the patterns of everything at every level, not only on the physical plane, but all higher planes as well.

And just as a quick side note, because we spoke to it last time, it's not this, you know, I think a lot of people hear spiritual or sacred geometry and think of it as this kind of spiritual woo-woo thing. But we were talking to it last time, I mean, even in just Fibonacci or golden ratio hidden within all nature

or the geometric patterns that become, visible in like a snowflake all of these things that are very tangibly real that we can see the patterns that are existing within all life I feel like just make it more tangible as to you know it's not this thing that you have to believe in but it's a reality that you can actually perceive

so you study any deep textbook again in biology chemistry physics they're manuals of sacred geometry There is how are things in the physical world put together as a pattern? So it's actually at its core, not woo-woo at all. All modern science is sacred geometry. Now they won't accept that because I think nothing is sacred. Everything is a physical accident and has no meaning or purpose.

So they're not going to agree with the sacred part. But they'll certainly agree with the measurement part that we can measure and try to control everything. That's the approach of materialistic science. But if we understand that there is a deeper consciousness and energy behind everything, then it automatically becomes sacred. It's part of a much more important process. And so seeing it from that particular perspective, then that sacred measure of the earth

then becomes the way also that as we begin to move our consciousness from the external appearances of things on the physical world, which is what we do when we move our physical senses outward to pick up century information in the phenomenal three-dimensional three-dimensional, physical world around us. Instead, we reverse that direction through things like the zero point centering practice that I teach in my online classes where you go into the center of the center

of the center and begin to go into the inner world and then that will turn insight out at a certain point and start to flood outward. And I refer to the zero point centering and then radiance practice. It's an inward movement and an outward movement. It's the pulsation of all life. And so, as we have that inward movement, one of the ways that sacred geometry manifests today in art is through people doing psychotropics. So you look at things like the work of Alex Gray that has become very well known and successful. It's basically what he's seeing as what we tend to refer today as the matrix, but essentially it's the sacred geometric grids behind everything in physical creation, the patterns behind it. So you see a combination of energy patterns and the

patterns of human physical structure being deconstructed on artwork like that. So a lot of people are finding that in higher non-physical perception, sacred geometry is what you're perceiving. So I also like to refer to then sacred geometry as the divine language. It's the divine language of all creation. It's literally the language that the angelic beings use to create the physical phenomenal world and to create all worlds. It's literally a articulate language of creation, a language of form, a language of energy, a language of consciousness that creates everything

into its manifestation pattern. And things may manifest on the atheric energy level that don't manifest physically. But nonetheless, on every plane, things have to manifest. Why do certain geometric shapes translate to a particular physical manifestation? because if geometry is essentially information, I'm curious, just like, maybe you don't know, but certain translation, why a sacred geometric shape will translate

into a certain physical manifestation, like why are they connected? So in materialistic science, they refer to this as form follows function. We look at it from a slightly different perspective with the work that I do under the licensing of my friend, Dr. Ibrahim Kareem, in the work of biogeometry.

And one of Dr. Kareem's formulas in the biogeometry work where was able to create unbelievable energetic effects with things that don't make sense to materialistic scientists because he understands what the pattern language does energetically. And so one of those principles in biogeometry is energy into shape creates function.

So energy is a, proteus, it's a core dynamic energy that has only given a specific function once the energy is put into a specific movement pattern. That movement pattern equals a function. So that's from biogeometry and it's a big key to all the practical effects that we get with that work. Now if I take it into metaphysical structure, then we can say, along with many classical traditional traditions, that all the patterns of sacred geometry are thought forms in the mind of God. So they all started out at the divine plane level as a thought form of the one, of the unified everything of the godhead.

And so then that thought form takes that particular pattern to equal a particular function or manifestation. And it works to do that on every plane of manifestation. station. So that's where you'll find that, for example, the teroidal energy movement, which more and more people in metaphysical circles are becoming aware of because it's such a fundamental energy pattern of everything, that movement through the center and around the periphery. We've got a perfect sphere on the periphery, but it's open at the top and bottom to move through the center. Whole human energy field is based on this. But then they found in modern science that subatomic particles are

based on the same energy circulation, that all types of things at our scale of manifestation, the physical world are based on that. And Apple is based on that. But also up to the galactic scale, you see these massive toroidal energy fields being created. It works, it's what's known as scale invariant. Doesn't matter what the scale is. It works on every scale, microcosm, and macrocosm, physical plane, non-physical planes. And so this would begin us something as a thought form in the mind of God. And so that to me is the real answer as to why do these patterns create this manifestation. It goes back to the thought form and the mind of God.

Then you can go to form follows function and these types of things as later manifestations. But also then begins to show us that we can learn to read, write, and speak sacred geometry as a language. because it is literally the divine language that is used by higher beings to create everything. We think of it as the solid physical thing in front of us, but they see it as the energy pattern

which they can change and manipulate. And so this also becomes a language to communicate with non-physical beings. They don't speak English or Russian or Chinese. They speak the language of pattern. They know those patterns. They're based on those patterns.

Everything that they create is based on those. patterns and that's one reason why people do advanced meditative work or they're doing psychotropic experiences why they keep seeing these patterns because they are the foundation of a divine language of communication one of the really great explorations of this in a practical way is in biogeometry and so what's described there is that there's a universal scale of energy all the different energetic functions the anything that could possibly manifest is in this scale of energy, and that universal scale of energy can then manifest itself in the different quality scales. So it can manifest itself within the color spectrum or within the sound

spectrum, or the spectrum of energy movements, or the spectrum of numbers. These are always to express that same universal constant spectrum of energy. So if we look specifically with your question at that for sound, that's really the modern field of cymatics. And so I've been very fortunate to be able to work with some of the, be connected with some of the leading people in cymatic research. John Stewart Reed and Britain, who's created the modern simoscope, which is unbelievable what it can do. He's managed to take simoscope pictures of the vibrational difference

between a healthy cell versus a cancerous cell based on the geometric pattern created by the vibrational resonance and to work with Mandara Cromwell, who is the person behind modern simotherapy, which she inherited from an osteopath in Britain who spent his whole life on it. So fascinating. I was just diving to the simoscope stuff last night.

Oh, it's incredible. So that will show you the actual vibrational pattern created by these things. And if you go into Hans Yenny's original work in cymatics, in the original films, which I believe now are on YouTube or whatever, you will see that when they bring together multiple sound frequencies together,

it doesn't just form like powder on a plate into a specific geometric mandala based on the vibration. You add together multiple sound vibrations, it'll rise up vertically and start moving like a living being. And so I find cymatics to be one of the great touchstones today in modern holistic science.

showing the reality of the vibrational basis of everything in existence. And that vibration always expresses itself through a geometric form. And that is a direct revelation of what is sacred geometry, even though many of the core patterns behind it are not physically visible to us until you do advanced imaging work like in cymatics or what they do in advanced physics or chemistry or things of that kind. But we can also do it through our own internal senses with advanced meditative work

and again many people are experiencing today through psychotropics. I think cymatics is an incredible bridge especially for those just limited to the confines of the physical material sciences to see a physical representation of non-physical geometries and how the translate

it just helps bridge the gap. I mean I know it does for me but especially somebody who was like very materialist-minded. I could see how that be very, very powerful and awakening. And I've heard you talk to how especially, I mean, in deep meditation, but also psychotropics can open up our perception beyond what we're typically familiar with and, you know,

ordinary waking consciousness where our senses are actually kind of limiting our perceptive capabilities. Our five senses are essentially plugging us into the matrix of 3D, which is very useful to navigate around, but doesn't give us access directly to higher, deeper, non-physical realities. And yeah, any thoughts there in terms of opening up our perception to these realities with or without psychotropics? Yes, I really find that what's going on now with,

modern vibrational sciences is something that begins to engage people's awareness of the vibrational basis of all existence. So there's a lot of wonderful fields developing now with microcurrent work and finding that specific frequencies of microcurrent. They're really cracking the code for what frequencies create, what biological functions. And I think that is something very tangible that can be in anchor for people, particularly when they see what the healing results of it can be, once you simply restore the correct vibration. It's like, why are we doing all these other forms of medicine, which are often much more

invasive, much more expensive, if we can move in this direction? But of course, these new directions are often suppressed in different ways by the current authorities, because they're a threat to their profit model. But nonetheless, they exist. They're well worth looking for. The work in cymatics, I find to be incredible for showing us the vibration behind everything in existence. There's also been bodies of work done, particularly in Europe, where they're doing super high magnification of things like water quality. So when John Stewart-Reed does the cymatics imaging, he's actually doing it in water, like in a water bubble.

And on the surface of that, he can put in any vibrational input, and you'll see the actual pattern of the vibration. behind it. Water is a perfect structure for that. And this water research happening in Europe as they magnify to tremendous degree, it creates all types of amazing patterns that are

they look like some type of forest landscape of what's inside the water drop. And one friend of ours in Austria had actually created a lot of images of this this research into water quality, very different from like emotos work. A lot of people know emotos work with water crystal limiters.

This is very, very different. And you would never think that inside the water drop at high magnification is this whole world. And he would put on art displays where they were like huge five foot high blowups of the things just showing you what actually exists below the level of our perception in the natural world as far as patterns. And it also can be very striking when you see something like one of the images they create

of what is the structure in water when it's been exposed to nuclear radiation from like a nuclear power plant. And it literally creates a black hole. The water structure is now a black hole with little black holes all through it. It has been destroyed. It's quite shocking to see what it looks like.

And then when you see something that's full of vital life energy and it looks like a whole world in a drop of water at high magnification. I think that's something that really brings it home to people. And then of course all types of work on experiencing vibration in the human physical body is something that I think can also open up people's perception as it. One thing that I love doing with people is simply toning. For a lot of people working with music and sound is a way to experience this. but even if you don't have any musical background, to do toning and create tones out of your own body

is something that you can feel the vibrational effect of the different sounds you make, and you realize that you're capable of creating audible sound as well, even if you're not a singer. We're not singing words. It's not a song. It's toning. And then you become aware of this power of the vibration of the tone itself.

So there's all kind of ways that people can experience it and play with it and use it for healing purposes. These are just a few examples. But it's one of those things that once you've really had that experience, it really changes your view of the world that everything is a vibrational, sacred geometric pattern. And that all you have to do is change the vibration and you'll change the pattern and you'll change the thing. I find it so interesting how when there's deep coherence, they're like these self-organizing systems enact. I mean, you just cut yourself. You see the body's intelligence system to heal itself.

But also there's like larger geometric patterns happening within like the human body itself that I would love for you to speak into just because finding that coherence, it's like in direct proportion to our health and vitality versus like what you're what you were speaking to when there is not coherence and there's disorder energetically. Then we'll see that physical manifestation as well. So just anything you want to share about the power of self-organizing systems, like in this energetic space in regards to, yeah, like the human body? Yeah, to make it accessible without our having a lot of images available to show more complex patterns, we talked before about the Taurus pattern. And we also show in my Gaia sacred geometry series

an energetic practice, moving it around the body, moving it from below to above, from above to below, and then both directions simultaneously, because whenever two opposite polarities move through the same space together, it creates a zero point opening into a higher dimensional, higher spiritual space. So, this being a form of the human energy field, it's interesting to note that in some schools of medical Qi Kang

from the Taoist, as they are doing energy work to heal people, which is very much vibrational work, restoring the correct vibration in parts of the body, pulling out the toxic energy, these types of things. To protect themselves, they create this teroidal field around the body because the teroidal field becomes a force field

that keeps out the toxic or the sick chi from the patient from entering their own field. So it's a very important fundamental practice. So not only do we have that teroidal field that runs through the midline of the body, because the most important energy circuit in the human body is from the crown to the perinium, in the absolute center of the body. And this is not Shoshumna.

Shoshumna is an interior channel of the spine, also a very important channel, but that's more connected to what's called the Doom-Aridian, or the governing vessel in Chinese medicine. This channel up the exact center of the body is the one that most people are aware of if they're to do a teroidal circulation. But that toroidal circulation also exists not on the main vertical axis, but on the horizontal axes. So the front and back heart chakra is toroidal and can run either direction or run both directions, etc. So these are sacred geometric movements deeply linked to very holistic, health-giving patterns of vibration and energy in the human body.

And then as you begin to pay attention to it when you're doing it, Let's say you're doing the vertical one through the middle channel of the body and circulating it around. One thing if you start paying attention to how the energy is moving in that sphere around you is that most of the time in the bubble of our energy and attention, it's swollen outward in front of the person and it is caved in on the back of the person because our sense organs are pointing us this way. This is where we're thinking and looking and going. behind us we don't pay much attention.

So it can change a person's experience of the space around them and how they even feel in their own body. If as they're doing the teroidal circulation, they start putting their attention behind the body to make sure that as the energy movement goes through the center of the body and out and around, it goes out not only equally far to the sides, but equally far to the front and the back.

And for a lot of people, that's a very conscious thing to make it, go further to the back so that it's equal to the mount to the front. And it feels very, very different when you do that. And it's like, oh, I didn't realize I had a caved-in energy field all the time. And now I can feel what it's like to have my energy field in the correct form. There would be a simple illustration of one of these types of patterns and how we could work with it to become more conscious of the effects of it

and how it can be used on a growth process. also things like another thing that I focused on in the Gaia TV series was on the form of what in the Jewish tradition would be called the tree of life and the great Greek Christian hermetic initiate Daskalos referred to as the symbol of life from its earlier form in Egypt and which was cultivated by the Ascines very very very important and it is the way that in the human body that middle channel that we just discussed is in a sense the neutral channel and then you have on the right side of the body a particular energy channel and the left side of the body an energy channel that are two opposite polarities and these run in a particular pattern like three pillars in the body and this becomes a transformation of what people think of as the Jewish Kabbalistic tree of life as an abstract glyph for cosmic creation

actually existing in the human physical body and if it can be constructed properly in the human physical body it will allow a person to stabilize their subtle energy structure to the point that what they normally lose between incarnations, certain sitas, certain memory, certain abilities,

these can be preserved through the gate of death and into the next incarnation, which is why Dasclos himself, when he would teach it to his own initiates in Greece, would talk about, the reason that I can remember my past incarnations why I can read, write, and speak, Egyptian hieroglyphics, ancient forms of Sanskrit, etc., is because I created this pattern in my body years ago. Now, the problem is that when this pattern was taught in, let's say the 1800s in the West, in the Golden Dawn, Occult Lodge in England, they gave an incorrect form of the tree of life.

They put Malkat, the earth, at the base of the feet. Now, you can create their form of the tree of life. It'll still have some beneficial structuring to the energy field, but it will not give the effects that someone like Dasklaus described with his incredible healing abilities, his karmic memory, all these types of things. It won't give those abilities at that level because it doesn't match the actual pattern in the human energy field. So there's a part of this in understanding key sacred geometric patterns in the human energy field

and how by merging our consciousness with it, we can start to activate it, and it becomes a structuring of the subtle bodies that we can take through the gate of death, that we will have in future incarnations, that really brings us much closer to our teleological destination, and becomes the preserving agent for what we've acquired in a particular lifetime to keep it together. And that's one thing that I really tried to emphasize to people in the Gaia series. It's like this is just one fairly simple pattern. You just need to learn 10 centers.

You need how to learn to connect them up in a particular energy highway. But if you do it in the correct way with the anchors in the correct spots where they actually exist, this will transform your destiny in a profound way. We spoke to a little bit about the power of 3, 7, and 12, with 3 being, you know, reference to mind, body, spirit, upper, middle, lower, Dante, then seven, the chakra system. I want to ask you a little bit about 12 and the doadachyhedron and then also like the translation to 12 people coming together

and essentially 12 groups of 12. And helping steward what I feel like, I'm here to be a part of or help steward of in terms of like the new earth paradigm of certain changes that are upon us in this lifetime because we live in unprecedented times where cataclysmic change is very potential. Like you said, we have the potential to blow Earth up in a way that we never had before. The exponential advent of AGI.

And like you spoke to with your reference to Japan, there's always the equal light and dark counterpart. And so just speaking to the power of 12 as a number in reference to the disciples, in reference to a group of people coming together for a higher purpose, merging the physical bodies of themselves and then also the non-physical realities for combined intention. Well, thank you. I love this topic. And I think that the best way to start in describing these core spiritual universal patterns is always with the thought forms in the mind of God. So first we have to start with what in physics is called the singularity. So that is the infinitesimal center that is zero-dimensional.

It comes from a much greater world beyond our three dimensions, and then it expands outward into three dimensions. So that's the center, and then when it expands outward equally in all directions, that center then creates a sphere.

That's why the sphere is the first form in sacred geometry, because it is the grail chalice. It is the vessel for the Godhead to create beings, and life and activity and everything of that kind, all materialization. So from that infinitesimal center, spreading out in all directions to create the sphere, every point on the periphery of the sphere is equidistant to the center.

So it's a perfectly balanced harmonic form. Now, if we wanted to use that as the form to have a perfectly balanced energy field around a living being, it would become the torus by opening it up at the top and the bottom, and then the movement through the center is going to be the central axis of the being. So if we look at this initial form of the sphere, the sphere is the primary container of all manifestation and creation.

There's only five perfect ways to divide that sphere so that every one of the faces created by the division is exactly the same shape that all the angles of every face are exactly the same, etc. And that's what's known as the platonic solids. There's only five perfect divisions of a sphere. The highest of those is the dodecahedron,

the one that has 12 pentagonal faces. And what are the others? That's the form. The decahedron is connected to the ether with 12 pentagonal faces. Then water has 20 faces and 12 nodal points. And that's connected to the Icosahedron, 20 triangular faces.

Then Earth is connected to the cube, six square faces. The air is connected to the octahedron, which is like two pyramids connected base to base, eight triangular faces. And fire is connected to the tetrahedron, which is four triangular faces. But we're talking about 12. So of those divisions, the most advanced of them was always considered to be and secret, as we talked about before, because misused it would lead to tremendous forces of destruction, which we saw in the first new. nuclear weapon, which is based on a dodecahedron. Oppenheimer. Yeah.

I mean, you'll actually see this, I believe. I think there's actually a scene in Oppenheimer, where before they put on the external cladding, you can see the things of dodecahedron. If not, you can find it in declassified photographs. And so those are the perfect divisions of a sphere. And so that gives rise to this energetic template behind the elements of creation. Well, let's take that initial sphere and look at. it being a specific size. And this was popularized through the work of Buckminster Fuller

in what he called the close packing of spheres. But what a lot of Bucky Furler's work actually is, is the thought forms in the mind of God of the sacred geometry patterns. So his book, Synodetics 1 and 2 are incredible manuals of thought forms in the mind of God of geometry. They're incredible. If you really know what that stuff is. And Buckminster Buckminster Fuller was a genius. He should be studied in every engineering laboratory in the world. I thought of him multiple times throughout this conversation. Oh, he's a geodesic dome and a lot of the geometric structure that you're talking about.

His work is so important. So if we take a look in what Buckminster Fuller called the close packing of spheres, you have one initial sphere. We just talked about how that gets created as a thought form in the mind of God. The original center of the one, the godhead, expanding out in all directions, create the primal container of creation. Now you've got that. Now you're going to create a complex form. So how many spheres of equal size can you pack around the central sphere? It could be oranges or something as a simple illustration. And so you can get exactly six that are the same size as the

central one. So six spheres on a horizontal plane, like at the bottom of a box, around the central one. so that they're all touching the central one, but you can't get a seventh one to touch the central one. But that six with the one becomes seven. Now, how many can you get on top? You can get exactly three to touch the central one. How many on bottom? Exactly three to touch the central one.

So that's called the close packing of spheres, and that is a key thought form in the mind of God to create a matrix of spherical energy. Does that look like the physical representation of the flower of life? life or is that separate? It's like fourth dimensional version? If you were to make the flower of life three dimensional and interpenetrate the spheres,

then you'd have it. So that is linked to it, but that's a different transformation. That's a transformation in two dimensions. And with the outer part of each circle touching the center of the adjacent circles, it's a different energy. template, but another very important energy template. But sticking with the 12, having the 12 spheres around the central sphere becomes a thought form in the mind of God of this key pattern of creation. And so in the work of Rudolf Steiner, understanding about these key geometric numbers of creation, he talks about an important 137 and 12R. So when we manifest a human spirit

into a physical body. There's one anchor point for the I am spiritual core of the person. And that anchor point is in the cave of Brahma in the center of the head. Around the pineal, really in a circulation between pineal and pituitary, but it's in the cave of Brahma, the third ventricle of the brain, this open space in the head. That's the anchor point for the one. That's our microcosm of the godhead. That's us as our unified spiritual core. That, The Kabbalists describe as the godhead being an ocean of fire, and every individual human being is one spark from that ocean. That's where our spark resides. Then when you have the born-again experience described in Pentecost in the Christian tradition, but also a part of the second birth ritual in India, you then see the ignition of the flame above the head.

And at that point, the flame that's here ignites the flame above the head, and you've activated. the powers of the first energy center above the head, and it literally becomes seen as spiritual vision like a flame form. So in working with the one, that's in the center of the head. Then the three are the anchor points for the human consciousness body, the astral body. And that's in the head, the chest, around the heart, and in the lower abdomen. And that becomes the three Don Tian, the three elixir fields in Chinese medicine, for example, but also becomes thinking, feeling, and willing,

and thought, speech, and action for the Buddhist. So that's literal anchor points in the human physical body. Then the seven is related to the seven primary atheric energy centers, which is the seven chakras that we know from the Himalian tradition. Then the 12 is related to 12 divisions of the human physical body. And so that's why you'll see these medieval diagrams, where you have the circle of the zodiac, and every one of the 12 signs of the zodiac

then gives rise to one part of the human body, from Pisces the fish at the two feet, up to the crown of the ram Ares at the top of the head. So a 12-fold division of the human physical body. And by the way, this is actually used in Vedic astrology, in Vedic medical astrology, in Indian hospitals to understand how certain configurations

in transits are going to affect a person's physical body when they're ill. It's quite remarkable the way that that works. So that's the idea then of the 137-12, which we have a part of that in the Jewish Kabbalistic system when they talk about the Safir Yetzera,

the book of formation, which says that the Hebrew alphabet is divided into three mother letters, seven double letters, 12 elemental letters. All of these are different ways of understanding these core geometric patterns of creation as they're expressed through number. So with the 12 levels of the human being and its foundation and the thought form in the mind of God of the 12 around the 1, we have the manifestation of the zodiac in the world around us, around the sun, around our solar system,

literally manifest in the physical body. The zodiac manifests as the 12 levels of the physical body. This also can manifest, like in the work of Rudolf Steiner, he describes to truly understand anything in the physical world. You have to conceptually walk a circle around it, and you have to see it from 12 different perspectives. The only way to really understand anything in its reality is to see it from 12 different perspectives.

So this is similar to the blind men and the elephant idea. If you only had one blind man feeling the elephant, it's a wall. Another one feels that it's a spear. Another one feels that it's a rope. But you have to put all those perspectives together to know it's an elephant. But it takes 12 of those directions. That's why we've divided the stars around our sun into 12 parts. It's just the way that things work energetically.

So Steiner then brought out that the 12 is this core, harmonic of manifesting on the physical plane. So the one is connected to the high spiritual worlds. That's where our I am presence come from, like the one anchor point or the godhead, the one. Then you have the three is related to the astral plane, the astral world with our consciousness. The seven is related to the etheric life force. And then the 12 is related to actual physical manifestation. So Steiner talked about at one time that when you look at great initiatory processes, they tend to be 12 around the one. And so there are 12 disciples around Christ because no one disciple could understand the nature of the Christ being. It takes 12 perspectives to see it in

its totality. Steiner also said that working in spiritual action groups, where you have a group of spiritual initiates that are quite advanced. He said that the optimal form for that is to have 12 in that group. So when he talked about the initiation that took place for the initiate known as Christian Rosencroits, who was the founder of the Rosicrucian tradition, said that was 12 initiates around Christian Rosencroits to make that possible. And he said, any time that you can put together a group of 12 initiates that function, each one is in a sense representing a sign of the zodiac.

And that's true in the New Testament. Every one of the four writers of the Gospels are holding one of the four cardinal places of the cross in the sky of the four key signs of the zodiac. So, for example, John is the eagle, and the eagle is the higher octave of Scorpio. And then you have the lion and et cetera. So that's actually showing the zodiacal representation. So the 12 allows each of the cosmic forces to manifest through a perspective and grounded in a person. And Steiner once said that we could change the destiny of the Earth in a very beneficial way

because some things are not going the right direction currently. We could change it in the most beneficial way if there were 12 groups of 12 on the planet. It's all you would need is 12 groups of 12. Doing being what? Being spiritual action groups that cannot only do meditative work together, but also work together to create and found new spiritual impulses in the world, like happened in the past when like a great spiritual tradition, like the Hindu tradition, the Vedic tradition began in India,

type of thing. So if we had 12 groups of 12, all things would become possible. Now, of course, we're dealing with the 144. And so we need to be very clear that all of these things having to do with the spiritual power of 144 is what you get with the 12 of the 12 harmonic. And the significance of 144 is what? Significance of the 144 is it's the totality of the groups of 12. And so at that point, you've got the complete matrix system in place.

This life feels like the most exciting spiritual scavenger hunt to discover how we can be stewards of this new earth that we can feel, you know, that our heart. hearts know as possible. So what do you think about doing this? What do you think about actually creating these 12 groups or like the reality of them coming together in our lifetime? Any thoughts that you have about in our lifetime birthing the new golden age? Well, we all do our part, right? We all do what is part of our own particular Dharma and karma to bring forward in a particular lifetime. But that's really why I created the Vesca Institute for what I've developed for myself over time, what I have to offer.

I think this is something valuable for every person to think about, because I know I had to go through a whole process with it myself, is at some point, as you're remembering, who am I, why am I here, what did I incarnate to do in this incarnation? You have to look at where are your comparative advantages. What are you particularly good in right now? Now, we do need to work in areas that we're not good in to strengthen it for later. But the question is, what can I provide the most service in right now? Because I'm really good at that right now. So I went through all types of things for an extended period of time. Like, I could do this or I could do that.

And I finally came to what was needed was the Vesca Institute to pull all this diverse, fragmented information together and give it to people so that they could save decades of time in knowing how things worked and applying it for their own purposes. So there's nothing dogmatic in the work at the Veska Institute. You don't, there's nothing to join. You know, you don't have to give your power away to anybody. We're not going to tell you what to do. No blood sacrifice?

Not at this level. All right. So we really want to make the information available to people to save them the time because what they may have as their purpose in this lifetime is not the same as my purpose. But we all need that core information. And that's what we're doing our best to bring together with everything from the holistic health to the spiritual science principles. And so looking at that side of it, figuring out what we ourselves can do to move toward it,

for me with the Vesca Institute, it was by making that information available, the deeper purpose of it is that Steiner had mentioned in his work, in what was the highest level of his work that's been collected under a series of lectures collected now under the name of Carmic Relationships, eight volumes of it. In volume three, he has this discussion of, I believe they were lectures he gave in 1924. He said, you know, all this information I'm giving out about spiritual science and Rosicrucianism isn't really for us right now.

It's for the people coming at the end of the century. It's what became known in Rosicrucian circles as the Mikhail Prophecy. It's for the people coming at the end of the century. That's all of us right now. He said the challenges are going to be huge at that time. But because of that, it's also a gigantic. opportunity. And he said that we're going to have the greatest mass incarnation of initiates ever in human history. More initiates from the past will choose to incarnate together at the same

time than has ever happened before. Some groups which have never incarnated on the earth at the same time before, because they tend to come in groupings for that particular tradition. So he says, we're going to have this fantastic, huge mass incarnation of these initiates. He said, that's what he's creating what is now over 350 volumes of books he wrote or collected lectures. He's creating it for now. And I felt the same way about the Vesca Institute. The work that we're doing right now is to give people the wake-up call, give them the information,

give them the context that tends to be missing today in spiritual circles for a highly specific purpose. And that is what I found through decades of work with people and understanding this about what I refer to as Karmic biography. Who am I? Why am I here? What am I here to do this incarnation? I found that a huge number of people,

the vast majority, actually are not fulfilling what we might term their karmic contract. These are things they, it wasn't put on them, it was something they themselves chose to do in a higher state of consciousness before incarnation. But for particularly the people with an initiatory background in the past, who have some levels of structuring and this sort of thing,

we decided before we incarnated that there were certain tasks that we would perform on the planet. And we pledged to do so because unless we do our peace, somebody else's peace can't fall into place. And I became aware of the terror of the situation quite a few decades ago where I saw that the vast majority of people are not fulfilling their karmic contract. They've become too fragmented. They've become too distracted by all of the things going on in modern society. they become too overwhelmed just like you're up to your ass and alligators

and you forgot you came to drain the swamp type of thing where it's just overwhelmed of what we have to deal with today and try to make sense of it and a world that doesn't reflect to us who we really are or what we need to actually be doing that a lot of people

were simply not doing what they came here to do and that the effect of this will be literally catastrophic that if everyone did what they came here to do we're going to be fine but if they don't, there's no way this is going to work out. And so a lot of the destruction that we see in the world is because people are not fulfilling their karmic contract.

And so I created Vesica to do whatever I could from my small piece of the puzzle to wake up as many people as I could and to give them the information they needed to remember who am I, why am I here, what did I come to do and to do it. So that's my perspective about like the 12 groups of 12 and us all working together. Every person that has an initiatory background, and if you've gotten this far in this podcast, you probably have an initiatory background or you would have gone to do something much more superficial and distracting an hour ago because we've gone fairly deep. But if this makes sense to you, you're not out one of these people that have incarnated as part of the Mikhail Prophecy. and we need to avoid all the Scylla and Carbdis rock and whirlpool types of dangers

of thinking we're not good enough on one side or becoming massively ego-inflated on the other side and recommit to what we chose to do for this incarnation in a way that is happy and joyful because finally I remember who the hell I am and what I'm doing here and how little time we have to put this together and start making every day this amazing dance of manifesting ourselves while also manifesting our work in the world. It's a powerful note to start to wrap up on. I think there is that Martin Luther quote,

which roughly says those who love peace need to learn how to organize themselves as much as those who love war. And it's hitting, I think, at the point at the turn of the century, what we need most right now when we have the capacity for such widespread destruction but also the opportunity for,

a new transcendent way of operating being born is enlightened leadership, is having individuals that can organize themselves because there aren't a lack of brilliant individuals who have structured their subtle body who are very tapped in, who have wonderful intentions and are doing things in the world. But I just find such a calling and just realize the power of bringing those individuals together to at the very least discuss what are the root causes of what's happening right now on the planet. What are the proposed solutions? How can we potentially work together to be forces for good and change? And so yeah, on a side no, just actively in the pursuit of helping create those conversations and meetings because I feel it's what's absolutely

needed right now most because otherwise I don't see how it's done unless the individuals and the minds and the hearts who are connected to this information and are devoted to doing the internal work come together to work together because we, you know, amplify each other exponentially. Well, I would definitely just offer to you, my friend, that you're absolutely on your Darmic path, that what the work you're doing here is absolutely wonderful. One reason that I came back so quickly to do another podcast with you is because you do such a masterful job of guiding the conversation and actually allowing the space and breathing room to go deep into it rather than being, I've experienced many times on podcasts being cut off and all types of topics

being brought in that have nothing to do with the main concept. And so we're unable to get to the deeper levels. And you create a particular chalice here to be able to go into those deeper conversations. And I very much appreciate you for it. And thank you for having me back. Thank you. I mean, it's my ultimate honor. And I receive everything that you said.

But it's my, um, it's my, um, it's my. Yeah, it's my honor really to be able to try best to hold a space or container for minds like yours to have space to breathe and wings to fly and to share this incredible information, which you're already doing in your own way and on other platforms. But yeah, I just strive to continue to create that space for individuals to really let their brilliance and their Darmic purpose and all that to really shine through. So thank you so much for just the conversation. I mean, I am so grateful for like these kind of conversations I would just so love and strive to have regardless of having a podcast at all. And the fact that it gets to be a weaving that gets to be shared with people that gets to be a nodal point for people to tune into to that energy, to that frequency and help them realize their own individual purpose of what they're here to do and help be a part of is, you know, definitely the most fulfilling thing I think I could be spending my time doing. And so just thank you so much for being a co-creator in that process. And man, I just thoroughly enjoyed diving down these with the USL.

Thank you, man. Me too. Thank you so much. Yeah, and we'll link everything down in the description again, but vesca.org is where you can find all of Dr. Robert Gilbert's work. Any other last words before we close out? No, I think we covered it pretty well today. Thank you so much for having me back.

Yeah, incredible. Well, until next time, which I'm sure there will be at some point. Thanks for everybody for tuning in. Let us know how this individual episode. So it has impacted you. And any other thoughts? I read the comments. I see who's out there.

I see you guys doing your work. So thanks for tuning in. Until next time, be well.