Knowledge Fight - 1089 Tucker The Man And His Capitulation

Episode Date: January 11, 2026

In this installment, Dan and Jordan set out intending to cover Tucker's latest interview but end up end up way off-track.

I know, nah, no, no, no, knowledge fight. Dan and Jordan, I am sweating. com. It's time to pray. I have great respect for knowledge, fight. Knowledge fight. I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys saying we are the bad guys. Knowledge fight. Dan and Jordan.

Knowledge fight. Eat money. Anzis, you're on the air. Thanks for holding. Hello, Alex. I'm a first-time calling. I'm a huge fan. I love your world. Knowledge Fight Knowledge Fight.com I love you. Hey, everybody.

Welcome back to Knowledge Fight. I'm Dan. I'm Jordan. We're a couple dudes like to sit around, worship at the altar of Celine and talk a little bit about Alex Jones. Oh, indeed we are, Dan. Jordan.

Quick question for you. What's up? What's your bright spot today, buddy? Why don't you go first? My bright spot is that my wife's mom, my mother-in-law, I suppose. She was in the hospital. She had some serious health

issues, went to the ICU. That's the intensive care unit. That's not what you want to hear whenever somebody is like full on 80 years old. But she had some surgery. They did some stuff and now she's out. That's wonderful. Right. Or at least she's out of the surgery.

Sure. As of now, I don't think she's fully left the ICU, but she's getting out of the ICU. She's on the direction. You could still say that the care is less intensive. Yes. It's far less intensive now. So that is a huge bright spot.

Yeah. That's wonderful. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When surgeries are required, it's always real scary. Yeah, even if the surgery was great, you know, like anytime somebody has to go under, you're like, this, this is fucked, you know, so. There's all kinds of moments of uncertainty and, you know, that's great cheese, all right? Great news.

Yep. Wonderful. Yeah. How about you? What's your bright spot? So, look, I have to bring you down a little. You have to pull on your collar here a little bit. I'm going to chew on your ear.

I got to. Did I do something wrong? You did. Okay. So, um, People may not know this, but before we record, sometimes we chat a little bit. Sure. Before we start the record.

I think we always chat. Yeah. But last time, something happened that made an impression upon me. What was that? Well, we were talking, and you brought up that you had eaten some grape nuts. Yes. And I told you, I've never had grape nuts because I don't like raisins. Right.

Right. And then you had a full-on panic about whether or not grape nuts have raisins in them. Sure. To me, I thought it made total sense because a grape nut would be a raisin. Raisins come from grapes. I understand the concept. Yeah. So you looked it up and it turns out there are no raisins in grape nuts.

Right, right, right. They're called that for a mysterious reason. There are no grapes and there are no nuts. Correct. Yes. And I felt horrible that I had made you doubt your sanity. I regained it very shortly. Yeah, but still, it was a moment I could see it in your eyes.

There was an intensity to that, like, oh, no. So I decided to take it upon myself to try grape nuts. Yeah. Because you loved them, and now I know there aren't raisins in them. Right. It sucks. It's awful. Did you eat them dry?

No. Okay. All right. It's awful? Why is it awful? Shit. They were boring. They are boring.

No, no, no. Don't get me wrong. They are very boring. Yeah. I didn't love it. I would much rather have, like, a wheat flike or something like that, or some sort of granola thing. than a grape nut.

I think what it is, I'll tell you this, extreme crunch. If you're a person who like choose ice, if you're, you know, when you're drinking a soda and you'd crunch on the ice

and it annoys people, if you're one of those people, grape nuts are fucking amazing. Why don't you get a rock then? I mean, I understand. It's borderline what we're doing. Yeah. I'm thrilled that they don't have raisins

because I do not care for raisins. Right. But I really am pissed about the name. But now having eaten them too, I'm even more mad. It just makes no sense. They suck. I hate you. I appreciate, here's what I appreciate.

I appreciate that you hate them for the right reasons now. You know, before you didn't try them because you assumed that they were something that they are clearly not. Now that you've stepped into the future of grape nuts, you realize they suck on their own. Yeah. I'd much rather, I guess, no, see, I'm like, oh, what's a, what's a comparable? adult cereal. Like life, no, life has sugar in.

Yeah, that shit's just crunchy wheat. That's really what grape nuts is, right? Anyway, we have an episode to go over today, Jordan. And it is not about the origin of grape nuts. God, if only. I do wish it was at this point.

But we'll get into this and chat about something. But first, let's take a little moment to say hello to some new wongs. Oh, that's a great idea. So first, shout out to Jesse, and thank you for listening to this nonsense with me on day trips and also turning it down when we roll the window down so people

don't think we're freaks. Love you, sugar tips. Thank you so much. You're a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thank you very much. Next, why does Nolan the largest friend not simply eat the other friends? Thank you for showing me this podcast and for being a great friend since elementary school.

Thank you so much. You're now policy won't. I'm a policy walk. Thank you very much. I love a Futurama reference. Yeah, sure, sure. I got the use of the word friend. made me think of like NBC's friends.

Yes. And I was trying to fit Nolan into there. Right. No, it's a joke about how the friends should have, how Chandler should have eaten the other friends. Shit. Yeah.

I didn't get it. I'm not a futurama guy. No, it's come out. He's from Omicron Percy I. Right. Next. All right.

Love your show, but hate when you play Nick Fuentes clips. His shrill whiny voice could knock down passing aircraft for the sake of flight safety, at least modulate his voice into something less ear shattering. Chipmunk, Darth Vader, anything. Big fan, Alejandro. Thank you so much, you're now, Policy Wong. I'm a policy won.

Thank you very much. I have terrible news for Alejandro today. Oh, no. Oh, no. So we also have a technocrat in the mixture of the mix room. So thank you so much too. Has Dan got a new winter jacket yet? Thank you so much.

You're a Democrat. I'm a policy wonk. Four stars. Go home to your mother and tell her you're brilliant. Someone, someone, Sodomite sent me a bucket of poop. Daddy Shark. Binks.

Jar Jar Binks has a Caribbean. black action. He's a loser little titty baby. I don't want to hate black people. I renounce Jesus Christ. Look. Yeah. Listen. What? I got a thinish coat last winter.

Right. And it worked for most of the winter. Most of the winter. And so I'm rocking that for now. I'm going to go for it. But as I'm getting out on the road a little bit more and maybe going to be doing some outdoorsier things. That's a good point. I do need to be in the market for sturdier coat. You're going to want to like actual coat coat. Yeah, if I'm going to go and like hike some

trails in, you know, the post-November months. Absolutely. Um, yeah. So look, look, look, I'm fine. I got a coat. Here's, here's what I think is great about your, your new plans, right? Is that you have only opened yourself up to more, has Dan bought one of these things that he might need situations? Like, do you have a blanket for the back of your car in case you're, you know, you got? I have a sleeping bag. Exactly. Like, what more? do you need? Do you have your towel, Dan? No. See? But I think that what's nice about this is that I will be out there on a trail.

And I'll be like, fuck, I've got to get a coat. And then I will do it. Right. It'll force my hand in terms of like if I want to do this again, I'm going to die if I don't get a coat. Well, I will say that I don't necessarily, I don't think that any particular message from somebody has reached the level of technocrat, but collectively the number of people who have tried to remind you to have a quote,

full on technocrat status. Yeah, but honestly, if I get a coat, then what? You're going to ask me about how the coat's doing? No, this is fun. People asking me if I've gotten a coat yet. There's only a will they won't they until I get a coat.

Here's what I want from this. I need you to become a TikTok coat influencer now, where sponsors send you coats, you wear them for like a second and go, hmm, and then put a new coat on. Pea coat. Yeah, that's what people do. Absolutely. Yeah, let's do the cane.

Yeah. So, Jordan. Yeah, Stan. Right off the bat, I need to call myself out for being completely wrong about something. Oh, right. This will likely go down as big of a failed prediction as the yay isn't going to come on Info Wars time that people keep reminding me of. But I was super wrong in my guess that Tucker Carlson would not be dumb enough to have

Nick Fuentes on his show. But this week, Tucker made the wild decision to do that interview. Fuck me. Yeah. God damn. Did I not tell you that I wanted to have a campaign start with Nick Fuentes? God damn it. So on the surface, there's no reason to do this interview.

And the choice tells me that Tucker is willing to make the bargain that comes along with buddying up with Nick. He's made friends with and elevated the voice of a Nazi purity tester, a guy who will use his audience to launch online wars against right-wing media figures who are too lukewarm. Over the past couple of weeks, Nick has been popping up more on shows that like to pretend that they're a bit closer to the mainstream, like Glenton Greenwald's show System Update. What? And Patrick Bet David's podcast.

Oh, my God. A lot of this has to do with the fallout of the Charlie Kirk murder and how figures on the extreme right wing have responded to it. Anti-Semitic shit has become way more popular than it was a few years ago, and with Elon on taking over Twitter and throwing out all moderation standards, that type of content is so much more on the surface than it was, you know, just a number of years ago. For sure. As such, you have tons of different pseudo-Nazi creators who have popped up and they've built their own brands,

but a lot of it is pretty lazy stuff. Being a bigot is easy because all you have to really do is yell about how the group you hate is responsible for all the shit you don't like. What you say doesn't really have to make sense. It just has to feel right for a particular audience. and you have to keep up your momentum. You can't stop. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You'll look like an idiot once the, you know. If you're allowed to think for a second, you realize you're stupid. Yeah, Wiley Coyote only falls when he stops running. Yep. Being an ideologue is harder because sometimes you have to resist the easy move in order to stay true to a larger principle that you have. Knee-jerk reactions get you an audience that's one knee-jerk away from abandoning you, and an ideologue has to consider that kind of danger.

I say all this because Nick Fuentes shocked the world when he resisted the urge to blame Israel for Charlie Kirk's murder. This is notable since he hates Israel specifically and Jewish people generally, and because Nick rose to prominence by trying to destroy Charlie and turning point for not being anti-Semitic enough. Put simply, this was a meatball being thrown right over home plate, and all Nick had to do was swing and he was guaranteed home run. But he didn't. And he even went so far as to criticize people for jumping to the conclusion that this was an Israeli hit job. His reasons for staking this position make a lot of sense.

Charlie was a longtime supporter of Israel, and there's no conceivable reason why Israel would want to kill him. Charlie's organization, Turning Point, is also largely pro-Israel, and he's closely entwined with the Trump administration, who have a mostly friendly position on Israel. killing Charlie makes no sense as a primary objective for Netanyahu to have and it's a bad strategic move even if it's just in terms of like you're doing an elaborate false flag to make him a martyr because there's no guarantee that whoever takes over a turning point would be as successful a communicator in the attention economy as Charlie. Yeah. There's no situation where you're Israel and you kill Charlie Kirk that is winding up better than if you're Israel and Charlie Kirk just keeps doing the same thing he's doing. Yeah. Yeah. It makes sense why Nick would approach this with caution, but the ecosystem that his content

lives in now has grown, and a lot of other pseudo-Nazis didn't have the same take that he did. Because Nick was out there saying that he didn't think that Israel killed Charlie Kirk, a lot of folks in the right-wing media got the sense that he was changing his stance on Israel and Jewish people, because everyone really understands that his criticisms aren't of Israel. They're all so fucking stupid. Yes. Yeah. And because they all.

live in their game. Yep. This idea is addressed specifically in an interview that Nick did with noted racist coward street gang founder Gavin McGinnis, which you'll hear here. Do you, where do you, I feel like you've sort of switched recently on the Jays a little bit. Yeah, people have been saying that, but that's only because I said that Israel didn't kill Charlie Kirk. But I only believe that because I think that Charlie Kirk was pro-Israel.

So that's you loving Jews in this day and age. Yeah, literally. Yeah. Yeah. Switch up. That's all it's based on? Yes. Oh, fuck.

Yeah, isn't that crazy? That's crazy because, you know, just sort of feeling, like we all have our own personal AIs and just sort of feeling the chatter. I was like, oh, Nick's coming around. He's kind of supporting Israel now. No, no, I just said that they didn't kill him, which is insane. So as Gavin said, everybody has their own AI, and he'd gotten some chatter that maybe Nick was warming up to Israel.

And I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people didn't get that misconception. In the attention economy that all these shitheads exist, there's no reason for Nick not to blame Israel. It's the only position he could have that's in line with what they understand his brand to be. So it's easy to see him not taking that easy position as him trying to indicate to the attention economy that he's willing to play ball. Up to this point, it's easy to see him as a toxic entity who just hates Jewish people, has cultivated a large in-cell Nazi audience, and through that has built his own K-Fabe. So many of these other right-wing media figures, they've created their K-Fabe off taking Nazi shit

and repackaging it through plausibly deniable language. But Nick's K-Fabe works differently. He doesn't need that plausible deniability, so interacting with them forces them to shit or get off the pot. Do you mean that Nazi shit you're winking about, or are you just a bunch of winks signifying nothing and you're just trying to scam Nazis? Yep.

he forces the issue in a way that a lot of them probably don't want. Yeah. No, I think it's hard to, it's hard to overstate this, right? The position that he was in whenever we last spoke about him. And I said something along the lines of like, I would like to, you know how they have those campaigns, right? The preloaded things. I don't want to do the stuff that it took to get to where he was a few months ago. But a few months ago where he was, is positioned.

so well to do exactly what he is doing right now, and he's doing it. And it's fucking annoying because I could do it better. I could fucking do it better. I could kill these people. I would crush this shit, but I'm not a Nazi, Dan. Yeah, I don't know.

Maybe you could. Maybe you couldn't. I don't know how well he's going to navigate all this. Yeah. Because I think that there is a side consequence that we'll talk about later that maybe isn't predicted for. I mean, he's young. He's too young.

young. Mm-hmm. That's going to be trouble. But because of this sort of like breaking through the wink of plausible deniability, like Nick's proximity threatens to blow up plausible deniability. Like most figures in this world because of that, they're wise to just steer clear of him. Right. It's not worth it to crack the door because once you do, it's too late.

He's going to be in your house. Nick taking the position that it probably wasn't Israel who killed Charlie Kirk has tricked a lot of right-wing figures into thinking that Nick has entered their game. To be clear, it's not a case where all these right-wing figures are pro-Israel and now think that Nick is too, so it's cool to talk to him. That's not what I mean by this. Right, right, right. It's more that they believed him to be a blame Israel for everything, pundit, who is essentially crazy, almost compulsive in his hating of Israel and Jewish people. By showing that he's not, Nick has made himself a more palatable guest option for some people who wouldn't have wanted to have him on before.

And it doesn't hurt that a lot of mainstream outlets have run breathless pieces, about him like they did about Richard Spencer in 2016. Yep. All hearts of flutter about the new clean-cut Nazi on the scene. Love Nazis. Nick's getting all that buzz combined with his public fight with the knee-jerk Nazis about Israel killing Kirk has led to him becoming far less scary for someone to interview. And that's not good.

I mean, one thing that it should show beyond any reasonable doubt is that the people he is, about to run roughshod over, don't understand the even concept of ideological consistency. It simply doesn't exist for them because it would never make sense for them for him to criticize or say it's not Israel because he's just a crazy guy

who hates Israel, right? There's no possible way he has an ideology. He's leaving points on the table that he could be scoring and getting clicks off of and no one will ever hold him responsible for being wrong or anything. Who cares? Right.

The idea of like, okay, an ideology means that even when I have to eat it, I am going to continue doing this stuff. Even when it fucking sucks, I'm going to continue believing this. Even whenever I am personally harmed. Right. Right? They don't get that at all. Well, that's one possible interpretation.

But another possible interpretation is these people have largely miscalculated what his brand is. And there is something really huge to gain in being classy about Charlie Kirk's murder as opposed to wallowing and rolling around in the shit. Right. And I think that he's, he's reaping the benefits of a longer game. Right. No, but that's, again, that's what I'm saying.

The idea of it, though, is the reason that ideological consistency has an advantage is that once you get to the situation where you're talking to the tuckers or these larger people, they are going, their waves are going to crash. You know, you're actually consistent. No matter what they do, it's going to look like shit compared to you. I don't think it's full-on ideological consistency. Sure. But I agree.

Well, I don't think he's capable of that. Yeah. I think there's a larger project that he's consistent to, let's say, than ideological consistency because a lot of his shit doesn't make sense. No, no, no, no. I mean, again, I'm with you there, but this, this just like, their fiction only exists so long as everybody is in that fiction. Once it hits a truth, you're fucked.

Yeah, for most of these people. I think Gavin is a little bit different because I think he's on board with most of the shit that makes me too. Yeah, yeah, he's just a regular Nazi too now. Yeah, and like, well, not quite regular, but more of white supremacist maybe. Sure. But like the, yeah, it's a weird thing to welcome for these folks. You get eaten alive.

It's foolish. So Nick's made the rounds, and it all culminated in an interview with Tucker Carlson. The guy who said that Nick was a weird gay kid in his parents' basement. The guy who said that Nick was a Fed mere months ago. Yep. And look, here's the bottom line of the whole thing. It's not a meaningful interview. Of course not.

It's kind of dull. And it almost has the vibe like Tucker isn't interested in challenging things Nick's saying, well, Nick is on his best behavior to come off as a normal, moderate type of guy to Tucker's audience. Tucker apologizes for calling Nick a gay fed and it all kind of just felt like a puff piece for Nick. Right. I intended to do an episode about the Tucker Nick interview, but it was a snooze. So what I'm going to do instead is present some bullet points from the various interviews that Nick's done on this media tour that I think are my main takeaways. that I think are actually important.

All right. Okay. So what we're going to do is treat his entire tour as one gigantic interview with a bunch of rotating interviewers. Kind of because he does, like, he definitely has some talking points. And you can definitely tell, like, he's telling some of the same stories. Right. And, like, there's a little bit of message discipline between the interviews. Sure.

But there are a few things that are, that I find interesting even with that. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Gotcha. So the first thing that I wanted to highlight is the different strategies that are used by different interviewers sitting down with Nick. Each is looking for a different thing out of the exchange, and you can really see it and how they interact with them. So first up, we have Gavin McGinnis, who has an angle that's the closest to what we've seen historically from Alex in terms of dealing with Nick.

Sure. Alex has tried over and over again to get Nick to just cool it on the anti-Semitism and start using coded language at this plausible deniability. so you can better fit into the business model that Alex profits from. Sure. On first glance, it could appear that this is what Gavin is doing too, but his angle is actually a little bit grosser. His primary argument for Nick is that not all Jews are bad. Great!

Which is what he's trying to say here. I just want you to be aware of how many Jews do not support Netanyahu's policies. And that includes Israel, that includes American Jews. My family's been terrorized by my neighbors. who are disproportionately Jewish, but they're secular Jews. They're atheist Jews. They are Marxists. They're Bolsheviks. You know, I think one big difference between you and I is when you think of Holodomor,

you think of Jews. When I think of Holodomor, I think of atheists. And once you're an atheist and a communist, you're not part of a religion. Right. You're everything wrong with humanity. and that's who I want to focus the beef on because all these great Jews get caught up in the anti-Semitism. Like who?

Like who? Like who? What the fuck are you talking about? Yeah. So Gavin taking this approach reveals two things. One, he knows that Nick thinks all Jewish people are bad and wants him to soften that edge. Sure.

And two, he thinks Nick hasn't heard the atheist Jews argument a thousand times and not already rejected it fully. Unsurprisingly, Gavin gets known. aware in the argument. And he ends up looking like an idiot while Nick basically just laughs at him. But I think there's one part of their conversation that stands out in terms of this is where their disconnect really is. And this is what I wanted to get you to. Jews are exceptional whites. When they do bad, they do exceptional bad. When they do good, they do exceptional good. And they do good. My daughter was born at Beth Israel. You know, Israel invents a pill that you swallow and

it gives you like a reverse colonoscopy. And you film. everything going down, they're overrepresented in the Fields medals, they're overrepresented in Nobel Peace Prizes. Yes, they're overrepresented in media and banking, as are the Irish, by the way. You've seen those memes of the Irish guy. Yeah, yeah. So when I see these, when I, I think white, I think Jews are really just whites who don't drink. If I didn't drink, I'd be. Yeah! Yeah!

I agree, yeah. Well, you're Canadian. I would change that law. I'd be that powerful, like Bloomberg giving himself an extra term. Yeah. They're like the Amish. Like they're just us at our purest in many ways. Well, I don't disagree.

They are gifted. And I agree with you that a lot of anti-Semites are reluctant to even give them their due. Because they are brilliant. And that's how that is part of why they're so powerful. So this is truly what they don't agree on. They both believe in white supremacy and wish to live in a country where all meaningful power is held by white men and think that their beliefs are based on the natural order of the world. world, but they don't agree on whether or not Jewish people can be white. In general, Gavin likes what Nick does.

He just wants to sand down some of these edges. If he were sincere in this motivation, this would be a really stupid angle because Nick knows damn well that his edges are the reason he has an audience. The day he decides to soften his position on Jewish people and say, okay, I guess right-wing Jews are pretty cool. That's the day his audience decides he sold out to Israel and his whole fucking thing collapsed. I mean, it's, the edges are my business. It's the only thing that matters. Right. I am the, I am the place where you are not. The idea of me being where you are is a waste of

my time. Yeah. So the very idea that Gavin is having this conversation with him, like he knows Nick. Yeah, it's fucking stupid. Right. And it is largely predicated on this idea of like, oh, I thought like, because you didn't blame Israel for the Kirk assassination. Yeah. I'm. I thought maybe we could get some business going together. I mean, it's, it's so, it's so fucking stupid. It's so fucking stupid for another reason that it reveals is that they don't have an idea of like an enemy that is an enemy. Right. Like an enemy that is your enemy is somebody who is either your equal or somebody at the very least who is working against you.

And that means that to fight them, you have to ascribe to them some tiny measure of intelligence. otherwise you were just making up a bunch of bullshit and lying to people like Alex does. Yeah. Right? So if your enemy is Israel, then you don't think Israel's that fucking stupid. Otherwise, why would they be your enemy?

Sure, sure. And you don't like, Israel isn't Nick's enemy. Right. That's the sort of elephant in the room of all this. He isn't anti-Semite. Right. He doesn't just have criticisms of Israel. Right, right, right.

This is ridiculous. Yeah, absolutely. He talks about how, like, Like, you know, he's, there's Jewish problems and stuff like that. It's matrilineal. And, like, you know, he's not talking about the government or Israel. Right. But again, part of this conversation even includes this underpinning of, like, yes, you understand.

I'm not hating all Jews because I think they're stupid. I'm hating them because they're so smart. They can control the world. Right? Like, so if I'm thinking these people are so smart, why would I ascribe to them the dumbest possible shit? Yeah. Only if they're made up and stupid like your enemies. Yeah.

And I mean, Gavin is not that great, not that bright. Nope, not very bright. Kind of thinks he's funny and good for him. I hope he has fun on his show. They're Marxists. So Gavin knows Nick. So he has more of a reason to be familiar with a type of game that he would be playing. And I found the comparison between that.

and the next interviewer in our lineup to be really interesting. And this is Patrick Bet David. Right. Fans of our show will remember Patrick Bet David as the insurance multi-level marketing scam guy who started a YouTube channel and interviewed a very drunk Alex Jones

in a hotel room in 2017. Life's very fragile. Right? Yeah. And then Hillary is a vampire. Hillary is a vampire. And now I have a tattoo. And now I have a Patrick Betta David tattoo.

You have a, I mean, in a roundabout way. Yes, you have a Patrick Bet David tattoo. Yeah. So from there, he's become a big name in the dipshit right-wing media space, and he prides himself on being the kind of guy who will have a conversation with anyone. Everyone told him not to talk to Nick, and that just makes him want to talk to him more. Oh, my God. So PBD is a moneymaker, and that's, like, all his shit is really about.

Yeah. Right-wing politics serves the interests of the people making massive amounts of money, and the right-wing audience is the easiest to make money off of, so it's a natural fit for him. Pure and simple, PBD just thinks that there's money. need to be made off interviewing Nick, so he's doing it, and he gives zero shits about what he's presenting to the audience. In the interview, Nick complains about how people called him a racist for a video clip that got posted some years back, where he says that people of different races having sex is

degenerate in the same way that having sex with a dog might be degenerate. Yeah, that's racism. Yeah. Yep. So keep in mind, Patrick Bed David describes himself as an Assyrian, who is born in Iran, and he's married to a white woman. With that context in place, here is a little... Strange of the two of them.

And how are you at this time? Just about to turn 19. So you're still 18, and this is what's happening to you? Got it. So what do you do next? So I have to defend myself. This video is going viral, and Ben Shapiro retweeted it, by the way. Ben Shapiro quote tweeted that Reagan Battalion video.

100%. Are you positive? 100%. And what did he say? This is very concerning. Is that the video, Rob? Yes, sir. Can I see it, please?

Her in your daily like existence by Jews. I told you yes, absolutely. You laugh at it like... How so? Can you... Would you say that me having sex with my dog is the same thing as me having sex with a black man? No. But they're both, they would both be degenerate.

Oh! Oh! That's a little bit, you know. That's a little bit harsh. Well... Could be seen as harsh. What? respectful. If I was an African-American, I would be very annoyed, upset, frustrated, angry with you, and somebody could say that is racist.

And the average person, and I'm just talking to you, I'm trying to be really hearing you out. I don't have any gotcha stuff for you here. It's going to be very easy interview. You just did. You had one big one right there. That's kind of racist. I agree. Okay. But. But. Well. So what Nick said is super racist and Patrick knows that. Yeah.

He's afraid to describe Nick's words accurately because he knows that his audience can't stand it when you call a racist thing racist. It's so woke to call racist things racist these days. Yeah, yeah. Nick was saying that the intimacy that Patrick shares with his wife is an act of degeneracy. Yep. So PBD gives Nick all the opportunities to excuse his comments as youthful in discretion. Sure. were unfortunately caught on camera.

Yep. But Nick doesn't really want to apologize for what he said, which leads to Patrick Bed David just directly asking him if he believes what he said in that clip. Great. And it was in that moment I defended myself very strongly because they tried to use this clip. And by they, I'm talking about Ben Shapiro, Cassie Dillon, Cabot Phillips.

They think they've got it. And now I'm canceled from the movement. So I took that. And, you know, of course, they're expecting you to go out and apologize. They're expecting you to go out. out and say, I'm sorry. I shouldn't have said that. But I said, you know what, I'm not sorry because this is a political attack. This is not some kind of good faith. You know, because you said the comment is racist. And would I phrase it that way if I was saying it in an official public

capacity? No. But we tend not to do those things when we think or in private, in confidence. You kind of understand that there's some discretion there. And that's not to say that I'm, you know, thought I could get away with it, but we don't speak in a lawyerly way when we're, were among friends. Do you believe that? You don't believe that, though. What? That it's degenerate? Yeah. I wouldn't say it's immoral. I don't know that I would say degenerate, but I would say it's contrary to my values. How much of, are you saying that in that moment because you're trying to be a shock jock and you're trying to get attention? I wasn't trying to be shock,

think about the question that was posed. Let's just back. I want to know what you think about this. We're in a private conversation. A girl takes her phone out. Start secretly recording and says, is having sex with a black man the same as having sex with the dog? Did you know she was doing that or no. I didn't know. Oh, okay. Yeah. Well, listen. But what is that to you? That's a setup. Nick, I'm talking to you in a way as if you're my nephew or my son. Not in a, don't take it as I'm, I'm this to you. I'm not doing that at all. I'm just talking to as I'm new to this game. I'm a business guy. So I haven't been, when I hear the histories, I don't know everyone's histories. You don't know what you're talking about.

You're right. We don't know the history of everybody, but we're willing to learn. We'll talk to everybody. We're willing to be lied to by everybody. So the answer to Patrick's question is yes. Nick does believe that people of different races having sex is degenerate. He can try to substitute in synonyms like against my values or whatever, but that's all just rhetorical games. Right. Nick would have expressed his racism more mysteriously if he knew that someone was recording him and he regrets that this boring, direct racist moment was caught on camera. Yeah. PBD's interview has a lot of this kind of vibe where he wants to come off like a cool old timer.

and cash in on whatever heat Nick has at the moment. Yeah. Thus, it should come as no surprise that this interview was released, along with Nick becoming an expert who's available for consultation on Patrick's expert consultation website Mnacht. The interview ends with this plug. When people said, what do you think is going to have? I think we're going to have a great conversation.

It was exactly what I thought it was going to be. I thought it was going to be great conversation. I'm glad to hear it. Anytime. Thank you, man. Thanks for having me. Anytime. time. And I think you are on Maneck, right? I think you are on Meneck as well, where people can ask you

questions if I'm not mistaken. I think we're going to set it up now. I'm not there yet, though. Fantastic. All right. So, guys, we're going to put his contact information below to get a hold of them. Having said that, take care, everybody. Bye, bye, bye, bye, bye. Hi, I'm Nick Fuentes. If you want to text me or call me or ask me a question, you can find me on Menect. So Menect is a website kind of like Cameo, but populated by right-wing media. a lunatic. Gotcha. And it's run by Patrick Bet David.

It's not a free service, so Nick's shooting a commercial for this page on there for Patrick to run. It's part of a financial relationship that they have. I'm not saying it's like an exclusive contract that they have or anything. Like, I'm not even saying that Patrick's influencing his speech. They have some arrangement. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure.

Yeah. So Patrick didn't give a single shit about what Nick said or thinks. He just wants to make money with him. And that's what this interview really was about. Also, side point. Minek lets you book guests for podcasts, and some of their rates are insane. Former NFL star Torel Owens charges $15,000 for a half hour, which is high, but he's a star. He's Terrell Owens.

Yeah. Yeah. Patrick Bet David charges $48,000 for a half hour, which just screams, I don't want to be on your podcast. That's a big, that's just no. Yeah. That's like how there were a couple of bookers. Whereas like, I know that you're trying to book me. Guess what?

Now it costs a lot more because I really want to just say no. But this is not saying no. Yeah. And it makes me look really fucking in demand. Yep. That this is my rate. Yep. And no one pays it.

Double it. Double it. And then double it again. And if you're willing to pay that, fuck me. I'll do it. But I really just want to not do it. Who the fuck is paying $50,000 for Patrick Bed David to do a half hour on their podcast? He does so much stuff for free.

And it's worth less than that. Yeah. Yeah. He's interviewing Nick Fentes for fuck's sake. I mean, do these people just refuse to learn anything ever? Because treating this like your nephew is how you... It's... Okay, so a wasp lays its eggs inside of your body.

And then the larvae eats you from the inside until you are dead. Right. Like treating the wasp. Lasp as your nephew is not the way to avoid having eggs laid inside of you and being eaten inside. No, it's letting your guard down a little bit. And being like, hey, look, I'm new to this game. I don't know anybody. I'm willing to talk to everybody.

Jesus, right. It's just like, yes, you are just going to straight up be lied to over and over and over again because you have no critical engagement. I don't care. Wasps, man. So next up, we have Glenn Greenwald, your favorite. My fucking buddy. So Greenwald takes a different kind of approach than Gavin or Patrick Bet David because he seems very invested in Nick thinking that he's cool. Yeah.

His interview unsurprisingly begins with connecting something from Nick's past to an issue that Glenn has defended over the years and then it dives into some strong insinuations that the act of interviewing Nick reveals what a brave guy Glenn is. Couldn't believe that. But I do want to spend a little bit time first on what seems to me to be the radically transatlantician. transform trajectory of you as a person in our political discourse and our media ecosystem. And I'll just share with you an anecdote. I don't know if I ever told you this before, but I think the first time when I really paid attention to you, I think the first time when I really talked about you, it was like 2020, you had tried to board a plane and found that you had been placed without any due process, any kind of notice on a government no-fly list. And I was somebody

who had spent, you know, many years in the war on terror denouncing the no-fly list for all of its authoritarian practices. And I think I manifested publicly, you know, about why is it, why is Nick Fuentes with no charges, no process, prohibited from flying? He's an American citizen. Say more words. And I'm not kidding. I was deluged with people in email and DM, even in phone calls, like major conservative figures and not even like the super pro establishment ones, even people who are kind of on the fringes of the more anti-saying, saying, look, I'm warning you don't have anything to do with Nick Fuentes, he's bad news, don't talk about him, don't believe him. There was really a very strong effort in the conservative movement to just make you disappear. I was really surprised.

I don't think I ever got pushed back like that before. And yet here we are, you know, I guess just a few years later. Yeah, here we are. I didn't listen to sound advice. Jesus Christ. Yeah, because there's, there is like a conspiratorial, like, oh, they're all trying to crush him. Or there's a bunch of people who recognize this dude is going to fuck you up. He's going, yeah, he's going to, once he gets in the door, start living in your house. Because Glenn Greenwald can't do anything other than talk about Glenn Greenwald. It's, it was insufferable.

I believe you. Whenever we listen to him quote unquote interview Alex, which was just him saying things about himself. A lot of it was. And then like giving Alex a pause. Like that was his question. Like, I'm great. Yeah, I'm great because I have the largest to talk to someone like you who everyone else thinks is dangerous to talk to.

But I get it. I get it. I'm cool. I'm very smart. If you had any power, you would kill me. So hopefully we can do this, but you never get any actual power. Because I get money when we do this, but when you get power, I die. Well, it's interesting to say that because I also think.

think that like this interview was largely themed around Glenn insisting that he's cool. Like, you know, that the whole thing that you'd probably kill me if you were charged. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He gets it that that's just fun. That's just fun. That's just fun. To exterminate people. I've been watching your work for, for some time, and you definitely had a kind of gravity

and even like a gravitas about the Charlie Kirk assassination and how you had to figure out how to talk about it afterwards, even taking a night off. to kind of reflect on it that I hadn't quite seen for me before, and I want to get into a little bit about why that was. Before we do, just on this topic of the trajectory and what may be the evolution, you know, obviously you know that if I have you on my show or if anyone has you on their show, they're going to hear, you know, kind of the highlights or the lowlights, as it might be of Nick Flentas. Like, here's what he said about black people and here's what he said about Jews, and here's what he said about this group and that group and this group. And because

you're on the air a lot and because some of it is kind of an ironic humor that you have with your audience, which I think most people in real life is how they speak and part of the appeal if you're doing well on the internet is the fact that you are being a real person. You're not presenting one fake artificial public face with

a different private character. Like me. I think that's given people in one way that's been very good for you. It's been part of your appeal. But in another way, it's given people a very easy way to demonize and attack you by taking these quotes. That can sound not just very racist. but very almost like Nazi like and a kind of an extermination rhetoric.

Oh, it can sound that way. But see, Glenn sees through it. He's not, he doesn't have the woke mind virus. So he can see that Nick's having fun. He's just having fun. He's shooting from the hip. And sometimes he talks about exterminating people. And you know what?

That just makes him real. I will tell you this. Do you know what happened to my brain while this was going on? Superpowers? While he was talking. Superpowers. Wrong. The furthest.

The furthest from it. While he was talking, I imagined getting so fat just so I could slap him in the face with my boobs. That's what I felt in my heart. I want to gain 100 pounds just so I can have enough boob skin to slap him with it. See, this is why you're a fucking artist. Because your mind goes to these places that are so creative. When you're forced, see, that's your superpower. That is my superpower.

find new things to do. Yeah. Imagination. So, yeah, I was going through these as a way of illustrating how clear everyone has a different agenda. Yeah. Like all of these people are talking to Nick and they're all foolish to do it except for maybe Gavin. Sure. But like they're all.

Because who gives a fuck what he does? Yeah. Yeah. They're foolish to do this. But at the same time, they're doing it for very different. reasons and satisfying a need that they have that is other than Nick. Yeah. Nick is exploiting them through whatever that need is that they're clearly projecting

through these interviews. Yeah. I mean, I think that's, again, I think that's really what they just do not fundamentally grasp, right? Is because they're not believers, right? They're people who are exploiting believers. They don't actually understand what would make you truly believe this shit, right? But a believer will know another believer, and they will look at him and compared to Glenn Greenwald and be like, that guy believes what I believe.

Or at least he believes something. Exactly. And I honestly, I want to be clear that I'm not, I don't want to say, like, he has an ideology and he has a belief or whatever, because that sounds fairly complicated. and I don't mean it to be. No. And by the end of this, I think that it's maybe less a real belief and more of a compulsion. Sure. And humoring that has gone on too far.

But like I get what you're saying. Yeah. Like sitting next to Glenn Greenwald, Nick looks like someone who has a point. Yep. And Glenn has a point. And his point is Glenn Greenwald is great. I mean. Sitting next to Patrick Bet David, like Nick looks like he has a point.

Yep. And Patrick's point is, I want to give you fatherly advice. I can't imagine still feeling like, I mean, honestly, I can't imagine still feeling like Glenn Greenwald feels about himself. If I was looking across from a person and I was like, you want to kill me, right? And he was like, yeah. Well, I mean, probably. Right? I would be like, oh, okay.

well then now we're fighting. You understand because you want to kill me. And so then we're fighting. You can't just be fine with that. Mick would probably say like, well, you know, we're on camera, so like, I wouldn't kill you. Right. But I've already stopped you because you're trying to kill me right now. But, like, I think maybe there should be special neighborhoods.

See, there we go. But we're already there. That are closed. They never stop there, though. There's never been a, okay, now we're done. No. I mean, he literally does say that there should be just like. ethnic neighborhoods that

voluntary segregation and stuff like that. Then now. To Glenn's face. Regardless of what we believe, you are my enemy. How does this not make sense to these people? Well, I think it's that believer thing.

And I think that all of them really want to think that what Nick is saying is kind of like a wink. And they want to believe that like true racist ideology and this kind of shit doesn't actually exist. Yeah. Because recognizing that it exists threatens to... The whole game. Well, it also threatens to indict part of what they do.

Sure. And they'd have to look in the mirror. They'd have to be bad people if they were the ones who were actually racist. And so I think that this... I'm going to play a clip here of an exchange between Glenn and Nick. And I think that this characterizes a fair amount of, like, a lot of the conversations through all of these interviews. And that is, like, Nick just saying flagrantly racist shit and the interviewer trying to like, ah.

Here's what you really mean. I hope I can walk through this. Right. Jesus Christ. Just as a little setup prior to this, Nick had said something racist about black people and white people. Right. And because he's a racist. Yeah.

And Glenn brings up that Kanye, yay, was someone. that Nick wanted to be president. Right. And also, white women don't vote the way that Nick wants, but they are white. Sure. You had a black man who you wanted to be president. Right. And white women who you disagree with politically.

How is he going to get out of this one? Right. There has been this kind of, I would almost say, consensus among people on the right, certainly among your precinct of the right, but even a little bit, one's a little bit closer to the mainstream. You heard J.D. Vans talking about this, that on some level, the kind of bugaboo right now of American politics are highly educated, metropolitan, liberal white women who are just kind of the bane of everybody's existence, who are the plight and plague on American politics. These are the people responsible for so many of the worst political trends over the last 10 years, not in terms of the ideas, but also how they're expressed, how the dialogue and discourse of all. And I know that's something that you've talked about. I've heard you talk about white women in quite acrimonious ways to be generous in terms of describing that.

So what about that? What does that reflect? I mean, these are white women, like hardcore white women, probably with a long history of white ancestry in the United States. And yet, for you and so many other people who think like you, these are like the embodiment of the threats to the American way of life. What's the explanation for that? Well, I think in general, you're sort of kind of. conflating what is abstract versus what is real. White women have liberal ideas, but they carry white genes. And so white women have eggs that when fertilized by white men are going to create white babies.

And white men and white women have been doing this for thousands of years. And they continue producing a race and ethnic group of people that look a certain way, act a certain way, speak a certain way. and, you know, maybe this generation or a previous generation or, you know, some other generation might have had the wrong idea or an idea that that is contrary to my ideas, but they still carry those genes. There's still that distinct group of people. I'm not going to say that I'm in favor of America becoming minority white because one black man has the right politics and most white women have the wrong politics in the current year in 2025 because, you know, all things being equal and kind of left in isolation in 100 years, those white women are going to ensure the continuation

of people that look like me. And those black people are going to have generation after generation of people that seem to be sort of set against us in a certain way. There seems to always be they're advocating on behalf of their group insofar as they're a minority. And we as whites are in a sense doing that also implicitly or explicitly. So I think maybe that's the conflation. There might be liberal white women, but they're still, they're still white. And I'd still think that white people should exist, even if, even if there are a lot of liberal white people right now, because I, you know, I'm white. So that's maybe, because I was libertarian for many years. And to me, that was kind of the big, that was the big inflection point for me is realizing that I'm part of a group that is

going extinct. And I don't want to go extinct. You know, I want to thrive. Yeah, that's probably universal human instinct. Let me shift gears a little bit and ask about Charlie Clark. Uh, what? You listen to all of that, and then you're like, I think that's a universal human instinct. I mean, it's, you know. I mean, you know, here's what I think.

He basically said the 14 words. Here's what I think, right? This goes back to something that, I don't know how many years ago it was, but this is eating the red card. This is what this is. These people, no matter how much they throw up the red card and are like, ha ha, the red card. He's going to eat the fucking card.

Sack up and do something or leave. I don't care what these white women believe because they're white. They can create white people. What do you not understand about what I like? Whiteness. I'm a racist. I am a racist. Yes.

You guys are racist too. You want to make this smarter than it is. Yeah. But basically, I love. like being around people who look like me because I'm scared. All of your trappings, all of your green wallediness, all of your Patrick Bet

Davidness, all of this is all made up to hide from yourself that you're just a piece of shit racist. Yeah. I have embraced being a piece of shit racist. Because that wasn't okay before and you couldn't make money off it. Now you can. I am stronger

than you because I have embraced my piece of shit racistness and you will never be able to avoid being a shitty Glenn Greenwald. Probably not. So last we have Tucker. Yeah. I don't have any clips of that show pulled because it was two and a quarter hours of nothing.

Ugh. It wasn't interesting. It didn't have any real revealing insights to it. Like, they're different perspectives or anything. Like, it's not, unlike the other interviewers we've touched on, it doesn't feel like Tucker has much of a motive either. Gavin wants Nick to see Jewish people as white. Patrick Bet David wants to justify making money.

money off Nick. Glenn Greenwald wants to pat himself on the back for being the coolest boy in the room, but Tucker is just kind of hanging out with Nick. And this is because there's a fundamental difference between those other three interviewers and Tucker. The other three wanted to use Nick for clicks and didn't really care about what they were platforming along the way. They didn't realize that Nick was using them and he had no interest in seeing Gavin's point or thinking that Glenn is one of the good homosexuals, but Tucker's different. Tucker had Nick on as an apology. These two dudes have been fighting in a way that's been chaos in the right-wing media space.

They're both out there calling each other a Fed, and it's nasty for business. Now that Charlie Kirk is dead, it's pretty hard not to accept that Nick is one of the, if not the actual, largest figures in the right wing that has a solid connection with the youth. And if your old-ass former bow tie Iraq war cheerleader Tucker, you'd be insane. not to think that Nick could turn a large chunk of the impressionable young conservatives against you. Tucker had Nick on so he could do brand rehabilitation with Nick's audience. Nick's doing him a favor. Yep.

Consider this. Nick and Tucker both posted the interviews that they did, the single interview on their Rumble channels. And as of this morning when we're recording, Tucker's version has about 350,000 views and Nicks has about 430,000. Fuck me. Tucker has over twice as many followers on Rumble, and yet the actively engaged viewer numbers are higher for Nick than him. Yep. I believe that Tucker is scared of Nick, and he should be. Letting him in the house is the wrong move, but that's only if you believe that Tucker doesn't actually want to be part of a white identity, pseudo-Nazi movement. Yeah.

He does. So letting Nick in, it really is just like, well, you got to deal with this guy now. That's basically it. It's pathetic because all of them have supplicated themselves before Nick Fuentes. Yes. And to do anything like that is to reveal that you're a waste of human. They had one chance and that's for all of them together to go, fuck you. You're just not allowed in.

You're just not allowed in. You can have your fucking shit. Go have your fun fucking shit. You're not allowed in. But the moment they allowed them in, it's all over for them. Right. it's based on good instincts. Like he is a destructive character.

He's going to fuck your shit up. Like, that's why people were telling Greenwald not to talk to him. That's why Millie Weaver was texting Alex and saying, don't have him on. Yep. Like, these people, like, it's not all, like, mockingbird media or whatever. It's some people just have an instinct to tell, like, this guy's bad news. It is, it is like, because it's just what. I don't understand these people on a fundamental level unless you just take somebody who is like in the moment and incapable of learning because they love going in places and wrecking people's shit.

That's their whole fucking thing. It's fun. It's why Trump is president. They have fun going into places where people are doing fine, tearing up all of their shit and then letting them clean it up. Yeah. That's fun. How does it not occur to them that they have? shit that there is to be fucked up.

And that somebody might enjoy fucking up their shit. Yep. How? And has cultivated his own, like, large audience, probably maybe larger than yours that enjoys and will only put up with him as long as he's fucking shit up. Yep. No, and it's, and it's like, regard, again, it's another one of those things where it's like, this is the difference between the past and the present.

In the past, that idea. oh, we have such a huge social media following is very important. Now that you're in the present, though, you realize that's fucking stupid. Those people aren't real. If you have an engaged following of a solid number of people, you are stronger than a million Twitter followers. And like if you have an engaged audience that you can weaponize, like you're... You're unstoppable. Because they can't do that shit.

So now there's a fascinating irony in all of these interviews. And that is that I think Patrick Bet-David-Davis. it is the shallowest of any of these media figures. But because he's unburdened by some other baggage when he's interviewing Nick, he actually manages to have the most interesting exchange with him. He doesn't dig into any of the interesting points, but there's a couple things that become clear from their interview that I think look really bad for Nick.

Yeah. And I want to talk about them. Okay. So first, I think that there is a really embarrassing story that Nick tells about going off to college in Boston. And here's that. Convention happens, I think, July 2016. I enter college at Boston University in September 2016. And this is the first time I've lived outside Chicago. I've lived in the same place my whole life. And it's important to impress upon you and maybe everybody like where I grew up. It's like this pocket of America that never changed. It's a

baseball town. Everybody's white. Everybody's obsessed with baseball. everybody's Catholic. So growing up, I'm going to CCD, which is like Catechism class for Catholics. Everybody loves baseball. There's an annual parade where you go and eat hot dogs and play baseball. So this is a place that is untouched by, like I said, even though they're liberal, they're not even really progressive. It's untouched by the progressive politics, by a lot of the diversity, even the crime. It's safe, white picket fences. Take a trip down to Western Springs, Illinois. I mean, you'll see what I mean. It's like the land that time forgot. I go to college in Boston, totally different story.

Boston's obviously super diverse. It's a lot of young people because it's all schools, all universities, and they're all from Asia, all foreign students, and they're all Chinese, they're all from these Asian countries. And there's also a little dangerous. There's a little criminal element, and everyone on the campuses, they're militant left wing. And that was kind of a culture shock.

And I kind of realized in that moment, most of the country looks like this now. actually, New York, L.A., Miami, the big cities, and most people live in the cities, they all look like this because of immigration, because of left-wing progressive politics. And I kind of said, in that moment, my slice of America that I grew up with is a dying breed. It's literally going extinct. So Nick is discussing his path towards being a white nationalist, and a big moment in that story is him going to college and being scared to be around so many people he didn't see as white.

I know that Nick's a big boy media figure and all that, but it's also important to remember that he's describing a moment from when he was a scared 18-year-old living away from home for the first time. When he got out into the world and discovered that it wasn't all like his mom's bosom, he was supposed to grow up. This is a challenge of individuation where a child has to break free from the nest. Not everyone does this by going off to college, but it's a common story in this country that this is where that test comes. comes. It's supposed to be a kind of scary thing to go to college because you're not living with your parents anymore. And in theory, it's the first time in your life that you're truly responsible for yourself. It's scary that your mom's bosom isn't the whole world. And you can't derive the comfort of home from far off places in the world. But the lesson you're supposed to

learn is that that's okay. You're going to be okay. And all the stuff out there in the real world isn't as scary as you think it is at first. You start to realize you can make a home. You can make peace and find things. There's a, in the, in Douglas Adams book, The Life, the Universe and Everything, which is my favorite, one of my favorites. The central protagonist, or antagonists, if you will, is the planet cricket. And what happened was a couple of guys, right, are on this planet.

cricket and it's shrouded the entire planet in a cloud. So everybody looks up and there's nothing up there. So there's no even sky to think of. Everybody's done that. And these two guys build a spaceship and they get out past it and they see the universe and they go home, they go home and they say, it's all got to go. And so then they try and destroy the entire universe, right? Like that is, that is what we're dealing with. Yeah. We are dealing with somebody who gets outside of his safe little cloud and goes, instead of engaging with this, I have to kill all of it. My security blanket has been taken away, and I refuse to accept that. Yep.

Instead of maturing through this challenge of life, Nick got mad, and he demanded that everywhere in the world should be the same as his mom's bosom. His hometown is 95% white, and now he's in a diverse city like Boston, so he thinks that the world should coddle him and cater to his need for there to be 95% white people around him so he feels safe. He's mad that the world doesn't make him feel as safe as his childhood home did, and because he has the validation of tons of racists online and he makes a bunch of money off it, there's no reason for him to ever feel the need to change this.

I don't want to infantilize Nick or anything, but this is baby stuff. And if he wants to be taken seriously as a mature racist, he needs a better backstory than this. That's what I'm saying. That's why I would be so much better at this. God, I wish I was a Nazi. Yeah, this is the kind of stuff that, like, honestly, adults shouldn't be humoring this. No. And, like, this should be like, oh, go to therapy.

Talk to somebody. Get a friend, Dickweed. Every single one of these people are doing everything the exact wrong way. I'm going to be your uncle. Be a little less racist. Like, that's not even good advice career-wise. Career-wise, be super racist. That's good advice to fucking Nick Fuentes, right?

So if you wanted to be a good uncle with, like, good life. advice. It would be, don't be any of what you are right now. No guardrails. Be anything else. Yeah. Yeah. Like particularly Patrick Bet David is like, don't say the N word. I mean, that's good advice. For everyone but Nick. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. So the second thing that becomes painfully clear in the Patrick Bet David interview is that Nick has based a lot of his political direction on rejection. This isn't to say that he doesn't have some sincerely held and intellectually backed up arguments and talking points, but I'm saying that, you know, as he tells the story of his path to hating Jewish people, it becomes kind of obvious that a bunch of it is spite.

Yeah. For instance, listen to this clip. You start your show America First. You're pro-Trump. You're supportive of Trump. You're going through what you're going through. Give me a couple inflection points where you start kind of flipping and you're no longer pro-Israel.

What were some of those events? Was it a book? Was it a conversation? Was it things you studied? What was that like? Well, the biggest thing is that I met this girl named Cassie Dillon. She was a fellow at Daily Wire. She now goes by Cassie Akiva.

So she was in school around the same time. She was in Western Massachusetts studying. And we met because we ran in the same college Republican circles. And she's the one that got me this show at RSBN, right-side Broadcasting Network. Yes, that's her. So she's still with Daily Wire. Yeah, she was there.

She left and then she came back. Okay. And so, you know, I met her. And at that time, she was a Christian. She converted to Judaism. She married a Jewish guy and converted. When I met her, she was a Christian, or she had been raised Christian. And we became very good friends.

You know, we went to the Christmas party, and we hung out, and I went on her show, and she got me my show. Nothing like an attractiveness, just a friendship. It might have been going in that direction, but no, nothing like that materialized. So, yeah, we were just friends. And I started to notice something was up, because. Trump's doctrine was America first, and that was so attractive to me. He said, we will no longer be misled by the siren song of globalism. It's going to be Americanism, not globalism. And that really sunk into me. And I'll never forget, this was in December 2016. This is what did it for me.

And I wrote an article about it on my blog. I had a blog at that time. And I noticed that Obama, who was still the president during the lame duck period, he told our ambassador to the United Nations not to veto a resolution condemning the West Bank settlements. So there's a resolution saying Israel settlements and the West Bank are illegal. Normally, the United States vetoes that on behalf of Israel to protect them. But Obama instructed our ambassador to abstain. And so the resolution went through. And everybody on the right wing said, Obama's an anti-Semite. He hates Jews because he did that. And I said, wait a second. I went through and I did the research. And I said, ever since 1967, during the Six-Day War, when Israel occupied the West Bank and Gaza Strip. It has been the official U.S. policy that we do not support the civilian settlements. That's technically illegal under international law. I said, so all Obama did was really uphold the same policy that every president did, Republican and Democrat, yet they're calling him a Jew hater.

I said, I don't think Obama hates Jews. Obama is supported by the Jewish left. People like Saul Olinsky mentored him or influenced him. So I don't think he hates Jews. I think that he's just... out our policy. And so I said, how is that any different than when, let's say, a conservative critiques BLM? They get called the racist. You critique feminism. You could call the sexist. Were you working at that time? Were you working anywhere? You're independent.

I was independent. Okay. So you're not with anybody while you're writing this. Right. So you're free to write and say whatever you want. Okay. Continue. Yeah. So I was just on my own blog. So I wrote that out. I said, this is hypocritical. I said, and this is something that crops up over and over is this double standard when it comes to anti-Semitism, when it comes to Israel. And called this out. And Cassie Dillon, who was my friend, I would raise this issue with her. And I would criticize Ben Shapiro very harshly. He was very anti-Trump at that time. And I said, I think Ben Shapiro is Israel first. And I think that when Trump says in his inaugural, it's America first, why is it that Israel gets all this foreign aid? They're the number one recipient for 50 years. They're not a poor country.

Why is it that much largesse? And so I would press her on this and other related questions. she threw arms up, and I think it was March 2017, and she said, we are no longer in the same movement. She said, you are anti-Israel. The way you're going about, this is anti-Semitic. This is Casey. This is, yeah, Cassie Dulloch. She goes, you are, you're attacking Shapiro and in an anti-Semitic way. I don't like your tone. She said, and I really want nothing to do with you anymore. Nick had a crush on this woman. She rightly assessed that his criticisms of Israel were an outlet for an anti-Semitic belief system and she cut him out of her life. Yep.

This is what Nick's mind goes to first when he's talking about his evolution as an anti-Israel person. Again, I don't want to infantilize this guy, but any adult should listen to that story and recognize that this was a kid who had feelings for someone that probably weren't requited. He was weird and she told him to get lost. Yep. This is another right of passage that's part of maturing into a full-on adult.

And when Nick hits these crossroads, he refuses to engage with. the lessons that he should be learning and instead he just becomes kind of an obsessive creep and blames somebody else. I mean, it's fairly endemic in the way that he, in the people he hangs out with, I would say, that kind of philosophy. So even in this, like, interview, Nick basically just cops to how this rejection made him feel angry. Wow.

And led to him covering Israel more. Great. So what's the first emotion you're getting? You're by yourself. She tells you this. Everybody gets a block. What is it? Is it anger?

Is it resentment? Is it I'm going to get them? Is it vengeance? What's the first emotion you're feeling? I was stunned. I was honestly just shocked because, you know, the idea on the right wing is we're the marketplace of ideas. And so nothing's off limits and you're supposed to bring your best ideas and you

debate them out. That's the whole program. And so to get such a cold and frosty response, it was actually a little disturbing. because it's like, you know, I slept over at her sister's apartment. I went to her Christmas party. We hung out. We disagree on this issue, which, by the way, isn't even an American issue. It's not like we had a falling out because I became some communist or anything to do with America.

It's because I didn't support a foreign country. And I said, you know, even if we disagree on the issue, we can't even talk to each other or be friends personally. Forget about even professionally working together. I was stunned at how she turned into like, there was like this transfer. And then I got angry. And I would talk about this on my show. I would kind of go on the show and it made me lean into the issue because I said clearly something is here. Like it's being treated differently than other issues.

Instead of moving along and letting it go, recognizing that not all relationships are meant to last and not all relationships can be the type of relationship you want them to be, Nick clearly just decided to obsess about this, this woman. this issue, and he goes on to blame her for all kinds of attacks and attempted cancellations, even in this interview with Patrick Bet David, years later. And then it was a couple months later that the first hit piece ever was written about me by Media Matters. And I strongly believe, and I believe there was evidence for this at one point that she sent in a clip from my show to Media Matters for America, left-wing organization. So what is the worst thing you've said? At that time, what is the worst thing you've said? Careful.

You've said some crazy things. Where do you want to go? Where do you want to start? I don't know if you're doing it because you're trying to get under people's skin if you fully believe it or you're trolling. I don't know. Could be any of those things. Only you know what you're doing at that time when you're making certain comments. But what is the most vile, extreme thing that some people may say you've said up until that point that's causing Cassie to message media matters and others saying?

You have to see what this guy is saying. Up to that point, and this was the subject of the article, I was talking about the Muslim ban. And I said the Trump Muslim ban, the travel ban. I said, the First Amendment does not apply to radical Muslims. I said, you don't have a First Amendment right to preach Wahhabist, Salafist ideology, which is, that's the theology of ISIS. So you're defending Trump? Yes. Okay.

That's the worst thing you've said? That was the subject of the article. That was the worst thing I said. So you've not said. So why would you? she be against that though? She was in favor of that. So then what is she forwarding to media matters for them to write? Because she knew that because it's a left-wing organization, that they would use that to try to get me canceled or banned. It would be negative. And you know this for a fact that she emailed

it? I don't want to put anything. You know for a fact that she's the one that reached out. I heard it's secondhand. So I don't know what absolutely. So we don't know for fact. We're just saying you're speculating. PBD asking the softest follow-up question, probably because he was actually confused. by the story that he's being told. Yeah, this is a crazy story if what I've asked you is the question that I asked you. Maybe I've lost my mind. And so that follow-up ends up revealing that Nick doesn't actually know if this gal sent that shit to Media Matters. It's all just part of a grievance story that he has about a girl who chose Judaism over him.

Like, this is crazy. Yeah, I, you know, here's what I, as an officianto of a little thing called human history, I do not like exactly how much of it has been affected entirely because some asshole got rejected by some lady. And that was it. And that's it. And now the whole human race has to be different. A difficulty in processing these events in life has caused way more problems than it should. And I think that, like, honestly, I don't think that Patrick Bet David had any interest in like doing a hard-hitting interview.

But by fumbling around, he's like allowing Nick to say these things that an adult observer should be like, You're a whiny little baby, aren't you? Or someone a long time ago should have been like, do you need to talk? Like, can I help you through this? Right. Or like he should have a buddy who buys him a drink. And it is like, let blow off some steam, dude. Okay.

So if I understand correctly, because this woman rejected you, you hate the Jews more. Are I understanding that correctly? Look, there's a couple of other steps. along the way, but it's certainly the first thing I bring up when Patrick Bet David's asking me. Feels like that was your, that you chose to bring it up. I didn't, I didn't choose like, oh, is this because you got spurned by a woman? And I hate, I hate to like laugh or muck because like these are normal things that people go through and they hurt. You're supposed to. Yes. Yeah. Hurt is good. Moving out of your home is threatening and scary. And it's a, it's a process of

acclimating to the world outside. Getting rejected by someone you really like and think that you have a ton of shit in common with hurts because it questions your sense of yourself. Are you good enough? You have to grow through those things and they're very, very hard. And I don't want to mock people who experience them and deal with them healthily. Sure. Nick clearly has not.

Right. But the rejection that Nick suffered is clearly too prime. There's part of it that has to do with this woman, but there's another part, and it has to do with Ben Shapiro not wanting to be his friend. So in December, some months before, I put out a tweet on Twitter, and I had about 1,000 followers on Twitter. A thousand. Think of that's not a big account. And I tweeted, I said, if you put China over America, you should go to China. If you put Mexico over America, you should go to Mexico. You see where this is going.

I said, if you put Israel over America, you should go to China. live in Israel. Shapiro quote tweeted that and said accusing Jews of dual loyalty is the surest sign that you're an anti-seid. Had a thousand followers? Why would you retweet that? Someone must assented to him.

Does he know anything about you at the time? Are you a formidable name in a circle that he would know about you? He had been tipped off about me because Cassie Dillon had filmed this debate I did on campus. She live streamed it on Twitter and he saw it. And she texted him

and said, you got to take this guy under your wing. He's unbelievable. He's the next big thing. He's a little Trumpy, she goes, because they hated Trump at that time. Who was their candidate? I know they were DeSantis 2020, but who were they,

2024, but who were they during that time? In 16, they were for Rubio, Cruz. Oh, Cruz. Cruz was it back that time. I remember that. Okay. So she says you got to go because he's a little bit Trumpy, and then what's his respond to her? He said, I'll take a look at him.

I'll take a look at his time. And she told you that. So she said to you, I told Ben he should, and he said to take a look at she. She sent me the screen shot, yeah. Oh, wow. Okay. So this woman that he had a crush on forwarded his stuff to Ben Shapiro, who looked at it and didn't want anything to do with Nick.

On multiple occasions throughout these interviews, Nick talks about how Shapiro was going to take him under his wing. He uses that language, but then he decided that Nick was an anti-Semite. It clearly really hurt him, and that makes sense. In the same way that going off to college and having a romantic interest reject you, those are growing experiences in life that suck, so is professional failure. But all of these things are a part of life. And instead of encountering these things and rising to the challenges they represent, Nick just got angry and took to whining about how all these sucky life experiences

just happened to him because of the Jews. These inflection points that he's telling Patrick Bad David about make total sense. It's just that Nick refuses to accept that he had some growing up to do after he put on a maga had it like age 17. Growing up is for. soy boys and cucks because accepting the responsibility and the possibility that the world is bigger than what makes you comfortable is woke bullshit. Nick didn't grow through these life changes and instead he just became an ideologue

against the group that he's chosen to blame for all of it. Yeah. And that's kind of clear from this press tour. Yeah. I mean, it sucks. It sucks that point of view on, for me personally, it sucks because if I am responsible, for my failures, then I am also responsible for my success. If I'm not responsible for failure, then I'm not responsible for success.

So all of these people have this idea that I am not responsible for what's going on around me. And then it's like, who gives a shit? If you're not responsible, then fuck you. Who gives a shit what you're doing, you know? Right. It sucks. Like, if the Jews have the power that Nick imagines them to have in his weird fantasies, Guess what?

All your money is there because of the Jews. Yeah. They've allowed you to become this popular. So relax. You have no, you have no free will over whatever this shit is that you're engaged in. Yep. Yeah, it's a game. It's a comical farce.

But I do think that the difference between Nick and a lot of these grifty fucks. Sure. Is he's hurt. Yeah. He has this pain that happened in a divine. developmental time in his life that has become this. And I think that when we talk about him being an ideologue and we talk about him having like principles and an ideology, I think it's because of this.

Sure. I think it's more like he has that, whatever this pain is, has become, the outlet is just hate and all this shit and anti-Semitism and racism and white identity. and for a lot of other people it's a costume that they wear but for him I think he would actually need help

to stop I mean I don't know you know like could you have helped the BTK killer to someone could have at some point you know what I'm saying

probably I'm not saying I'm not saying that it's impossible I'm just saying when you know it'd have to be early when was help or, because I think we're past help.

Yeah, no, sure, for sure. And he's a piece of shit and I don't give a fuck about him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like I said, I don't want to infantilize him. No. But like, it's embarrassing to hear adults like Patrick Bed David listen to this guy, tell this story and not like have the response of like, the fuck's wrong with you. Go to college. Have, have some tough experiences.

Take a couple bumps, you know, like you're going to, that's what's going to happen in life. You can't be fucking comfortable around white people all the fucking time. And expect the world to just exist like that. The world doesn't conform to your Nazi fantasies and trying to force it to has created the way people respond to Nick is a function of him wanting the world to all be his 95% white hometown. They're reacting to what he's putting into the world. Yep. Anyway. They just, they're just too dumb.

They're just all too dumb. And it's like at a certain point, Fuentes isn't responsible for his failures or successes. These people are creating him out of fucking thin air. It's a large constellation. It's these people. It's, you know, the online spaces that enabled and fostered this early on.

Yeah, I mean, Ben Shapiro, when he only has a thousand followers. You know, there's a chance at every step of the way. But these people created him out of all of this bullshit. Yep. Wild. Yep. And now they're going to be eaten by it.

Probably. Because that is the way of life. I don't know. What else is there to say? The young, eat the old. We're all going to die, Dan. Yeah. Anyway, the biggest irony here, I think, is that at this point,

Nick stands to lose way more by being on Tucker's show than Tucker does from having Nick on. Tucker could interview gerbils and it would be like a barely It would barely matter Yeah totally But Nick's audience has just listened To Nick go on a crusade against Tucker Calling him a CIA agent

And all this shit It's a little jarring to go from that To buddying up with him in a matter of weeks And I wouldn't be too surprised If some of the Groypers don't trust The decision of going on Tucker's show And being friends with him Yeah

Like it's a play on Tucker's part to smooth things out with Nick's audience. Yeah. But ironically, it may alienate a fair amount of Nick's audience from Nick. Yeah. No, and I mean, that's, I suppose that'll be, you know, that'll be a quarterback, that'll be a Monday morning quarterback kind of situation, you know? Like, that is a, that's a risk, but also the audience is huge. So is it a risk you got to take?

We'll see how it plays out. It's such a tough choice if I'm, if you're him. Yeah. That's a tough choice. Well, everybody made the right and wrong. choice simultaneously. Right. And nothing's real and who cares. Exactly. Yeah. There won't be consequences for this in real terms because a month from now, this will not exist. It will be the next thing. Yeah. And the problem with it is that Nick Fuentes will continue to exist. Yes. These people are not

erasing him. They are creating a situation where what happens today doesn't matter. He will still be there next month. Yeah. And that's fucked up for them. Yeah. And I think, I think that it's a function largely of adults, not doing what they need to do. Yep. Which is not humor. The story of America. Yeah. Adults not doing what they needed to do.

Yeah. Not just saying stop it. I mean, it's hard to, it's hard to think of anything more impotent than back in the day when people were like, surely there were adults coming. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Brutal. So we come to the end of this and it's, you know, obviously I sat out. to do an episode about Tucker and Nick's interview.

Zero Tucker and Nick. Yeah, because it's the least interesting part of this entire thing. And granted, these other interviews happened over the last, like, span of weeks, but I do think that the headline event is Nick and Tucker doing a friendly interview. Yeah. After they've been trying to destroy each other. Right. It's just the, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a comic who has.

has a great set and a horrible closer. That's how I feel about it. But it's not even a good set. No, it's not a good set. It's just disappointing. It's an anti-climax. Yeah, it's somebody who's already successful getting more success than not earning it. So, again, Alejandro, I'm really sorry.

You had to listen to Nick's voice. I mean, in a way, I think everybody can be truly grateful that we didn't get to hear the two most annoying voices in our cadre together. Yeah, I did. There was a part of me that thought like, this will definitely get the ex-gene going. It's so annoying to hear the two of the... Just one of their voices is fucking annoying. I thought if I played them,

we would know for sure if you have superpowers. Yeah, if Nick laughed at the same time as Tucker Carlson laughing, I may develop super... That may be what does it. Right, but also we could clearly say that if it didn't, then you don't have any. Right, right.

So, or so that means that powers don't exist at all. much like me and my coat right the will they won't they of your superpowers it's best if we leave a little we gotta leave it in the air yeah yeah to to solve that problem would uh would have far ranging consequences yeah no so we'll uh we'll be back with another episode about some other don't bullshit but uh until then uh we have website indeed we do it's knowledge fight dot com yep we'll be back but until then i'm leo i'm dz yx clark i am the mysterious professor now here comes the sex robot andy in chansis you're on the air thanks for holding Hello, Alex, I'm a first-time caller.

I'm a huge fan. I love your work. I love you.