Knowledge Fight - #1127: This Is An (Unhealthy) Family Show

Episode Date: March 23, 2026

In this installment, Dan and Jordan are bewildered by a recent podcast hosted by Alex's son, featuring an interview with Owen Shroyer, a guy who Alex has declared war on.

I know, no, no, no, knowledge fight. And Jordan, I am sweating. Knowledgefight.com. It's down to pray. I have great respect for knowledge fight. Knowledge fight. I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys saying we are the bad guys. Knowledge.

Fight. Dan and Jordan. Knowledge fight. Need money. Indian Kansas. You're on the air. Thanks for holding. Hello, Alex.

I'm a first-time calling. I'm a huge fan. I love your world. Knowledge fight. KnowledgeFight.com. I love you. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to Knowledge Fight.

I'm Dan. I'm Jordan. We're a couple dudes who like to sit around. Where's up with the altar of Celine and talk a little bit about Alex Jones. Indeed, we are, Dan. I got senioritis. I got the Friday vibes. I couldn't remember how to intro the show.

That was wild. That was the sound of a short circuit. Dan. Yes. Jordan? Quick question for you. What's your bright spot today, buddy? My bright spot today, it's still March.

It is March. So I'm going first, as is tradition. All right. And my bright spot is I'm going on a little trip. Ooh. I'm leaving tomorrow on a trip. I'm going to go on a road trip. Yep.

I'm just going to drive around. Going to get out there. Find out what there is to find. There's stuff. Yeah. I guarantee it. We're going to definitely do some dispatches from the time that I'm out there. I'll call you and bother you.

I hope so. You'll record me telling you about my travels. I imagine so. And yeah, I'm just, I've been working on some of the logistics of this and just trying to put it all together for a bit. And I'm excited that it's culminating. Yeah, I'm excited for you. I'm going to have some movement. I'm stoked.

This is, for whatever this may be, it is also the culmination of all the months of work. You did trying to get your driver's license all in service of a moment like this. Yeah, and getting snowed in. and ice in for a bit, like, just kind of feeling like I was immobile and couldn't do this. So, yeah, I just kind of set the date in my head, and I spoke it into reality with, like, my therapist and some friends and you. Yep. I'm glad to we're in that order. Yeah.

You're in a different category than friends. I know. Enemy. Yeah, exactly. Mortal nemesis. Yeah, but I'm just glad that I'm, um, I'm sticking through with it and we'll see what happens. I'm excited for you.

But yeah, look forward to some stupid shit of me bothering you. Always excited. So it's your bright spot. My bright spot coincides with yours because not only are you going on a trip. You're excited that I'm leaving. No, no, no. It's my wife's spring break. So I'm suddenly very available, which is delightful.

For her? Or is she going? somewhere. No, no, no, we're just hanging out. You're very available for her. Yeah, it's going to be great. It's going to be a good week to spend together, which is interesting because last week she was out late every night, so we barely got to see each other. This week, we're going to spend as much

time as we can together, or at least as long as she can stand to be around me. It's a feast and famine with quality time, you know? It is how it works. So, yeah, I'm excited. You have any little plans in advance? Nah, we were going to take a road trip, but you've already mapped out where we were going to go, so.

You don't know where I'm going to go. Yeah, that's the problem. I haven't told you. I have kept this close to the chest vest. It was exactly where we were going to go, though. Shit. Yeah, yeah. We were there last year, actually.

Oh, yeah? Yeah. I find that hard to believe. I think that the things that I would be drawn to in a road trip are not what you or your wife would be drawn to. Yeah. For better or worse, I think you guys go on vacations to cool places that are nice, and you might go to, like, swim with a turn. turtles or go on a zip line. Turtle-based is exactly right.

Yeah. Yeah. I think that I'm drawn to things that would be like, wouldn't it be funny if I did that? There is a little bit of that to you. Yeah. We stopped at the Lions Dead, I believe, didn't we? Yeah. On the way back from Milwaukee.

No, it's a national landmark. It is a national landmark. Absolutely. Yeah. So I think there wouldn't be much overlap. But in case there is, I'll be sure to get her some, like, the fridge magnet. She would love that. or something.

She would be delighted. Awesome. Yeah. Well, Jordan, today we have an episode to go over before we both go on break. Before we both go on break. And it's a tough situation. Yeah. Alex has been just gone.

He's on his spring break. Kind of. Oh, boy. So we'll talk about what's going on. All right. First, let's take a moment to say hello to some new Wong. Oh, that's a great idea. So first, it was Patch Adams' girlfriend Karen Fisher that was murdered at the end of the movie.

Thank you so much. You're in a Policy Wong. I'm a policy walk. Thank you very much. Good to know. Yep. Next, long-time listener who's finally deciding to buy flowers for herself and ask for a shout-out. Just a little one, just as a treat.

Emily, you are now a policy-wank. Thank you so much. You're now a policy-wank. I'm a policy-wank. Thank you very much. Thank you. And Patch Adams' girlfriend gets murdered at the end of the movie. Thank you so much.

You're now a policy-wank. I'm a policy wonk. Thank you very much. Is this a chumba-wumba situation? I know. You can see how sometimes through the wonk shout-outs, what the name and date of the shout-out work. where we were talking about Patch Adams.

That was right around whenever we said something about Patch Adams. Yep. So we also got a technocrat in the mix, Jordan. So thank you so much to Roses are Red, the Truth gets ignored, Dan pulls receipts, and Jordan gets floored. Sarah loves you, Eric Miller. Thank you so much. You're an Iowa technocrat.

I'm a policy wonk. Four star. Go home to your mother and tell her you're brilliant. Someone, someone, Sodomite sent me a bucket of poop. Daddy Shark. Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bam. Jar J.J.R. Binks has a Caribbean black accent. He's a loser.

little titty baby. I don't want to hate black people. I renounce Jesus Christ. Thank you so much. Thank you very much. So, Jordan, shit's bad at Info Wars. Yeah, I believe so.

There's no way to avoid this just reality. I'm sure they're going out of business at some point in the not too distant future and Alex is probably dying in front of everyone's eyes. It looks like it. But the state of affairs on air has been particularly grim.

This past week, Alex has barely appeared on his own show, with Harrison Smith, generally kicking off the broadcast, which is then hosted by a rotating cast of racists and weirdos. You have a lot of familiar faces like Stuart Rhodes, Gavin Beginnis, Mike Adams, and the like, but what's different about the present situation is that it doesn't feel like anyone in particular is the anchor.

Yeah. Like in the past, it would feel like someone's filling in. Yeah. In the world of independent stand-up, you generally run into two kinds of shows. The first has a host who welcomes the crowd and gets things going and then return. in between acts to reset the audience and give things a sense of continuity. The other type is a shotgun show where the performer on stage introduces the next performer, and it just keeps rolling like that.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but I've never been a part of or seen a shotgun-style show that felt good. It's bad to watch, and it sucks to be a part of, most of the time. Yep. You don't need a stern hand out of a host, but you really do need someone to bring a bit of order to the chaos, or else the show kind of feels like it's out of control. And that's what InfoWars feels like. It's like a boat with no captain. And Alex, I think he has appeared a couple times,

like doing a little, like, video that he sent in. Yeah. But like it feels weird. It feels like no one's minding the store. I want to say live at the troubadour. Do you remember the comedians of comedy live at the troubadour set? That was the last shotgun set that I could think of. where I was like, you know what, this is exactly how they should have done that.

None of those people were responsible enough to be the host. It's not supposed to be a well-thought-out show. At one point, H. John Benjamin and David Cross, I think, were a double team and a guy. I think you have come up with the counter example where that... He, well, only one. That worked well. And I would like to remind you that what I said is I have never been a part of... That's fair.

That's fair. Or seen. I didn't see the comedians of comedy. That's good. That's a good point. I have made my mistake. Yeah. Yeah.

I mostly use this as an analogy to explain that shit feels out of control. Yeah. And like there's no one in charge at Infra Wars. I just mostly wanted to talk about H. John Benjamin and David Cross. Sure. Yeah. That was an intense set. And let's give him something to talk about.

Yep. Yep. Yep. Classic. Um, so. So. What the fuck? I don't know.

Why do we know these things? I don't know. Anyway, I was struggling to find something to cover. Yeah. And I watched an episode of Dan Bedondi's show. I was lured in because the title was Things Not to Have in Your Home. Oh, that's actually a good... It's not.

I mean, the problem with that, that totally gets me because I'm like, oh, there's so many things you don't want to have in your home. I wonder if I have any of my home. I'm certain you do. Statues. Yep. Totally. It's all idolatry.

It's all idolatry. It was bad. I realized like, I can't, I don't want to do an episode about him. No. Looked into some space stuff. Sure. Not really anything. It wasn't feeling like a Tucker.

I even was considering like, hey, maybe it's time to talk about the ace man. Maybe Adam Carolla is finally going to get his moment. No, no. I don't know if that's going to ever happen. So then I noticed something happened. and it happened on the same day that Alex was on Tim Poole's show. And that is Owen Schroier appeared on Alex's son's new show. Alex's son Rex has a new show called The Grey Area.

All right. I'm in. But this is a terrible idea on all parts. It is. And I will say that I did turn it off after about an hour because it just eventually got boring. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But there's some shit going on with this that I think is actually fairly interesting. All right, I'm listening.

And worth our time. Okay. So here is the beginning of the show where Rex is bringing in the Schroier. Episode 56, welcome to the gray area. Rex Jones and Tim Tompkins were joined by a special guest today. You one and only Owen Schroier. Welcome to the gray area. Feels like we're all in the gray area right now, Rex.

Boom! Right out the game! It's hard to figure out what's black and white. white. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I know we watched your video today that you put out. It's very rare, like hardly ever in like the decade that I knew you when we worked together. I've really never seen you miss a show or miss a broadcast, but it is just all too much to take in at this point. So right off the bat, Owens missed plenty of shows in the past. Who knows how many of them were planned time off or sick days, but they're being a little bit dramatic here. So apparently Rex has decided

to start his own little show called The Gray Area. It's an interesting choice because his first attempted a show was called I'm not bragging, which was a line that he stole from his dad. Alex would regularly say, I'm not bragging when he was very obviously bragging, so his son made a show with the name that was making fun of that. Yeah. That was an attempt at capturing some kind of a Gen Z audience with Trump content, but now the worm is turned a little bit and the Gen Z folks don't like Trump so much anymore. To attract them, it's important to be a little bit more jaded and less interested in party

politics, kind of like Alex pretended to be back when he was Rex's age. Weird. And thus we have the gray area, the space between black and white. But this is also kind of a name that's just a rip off of Max Blumenthal's show, The Gray Zone. There is that. There's no way that's not intentional. I think that Rex is always going to be destined to live in his dad's shadow, and that's made him incapable of sincere creation.

Probably. The things he makes are derivative, and there's something very telling about the fact that He's decided to stop impersonating his dad and doing a show based on one of his dad's catchphrases and start impersonating another media figure whose brand seems a little bit more viable right now. Yeah. Also, not for nothing. This is a hilarious booking. If you remember, Rex was on air with Harrison Smith when Alex did that whole meltdown thing with Owen.

Yep. So I can't imagine his dad is cool with this. I mean, just every part of this. Like, first off, his, I can't remember you missing a day. part of the conversation you had with your dad was about how Owen was like, I'm just out of here for a week. He just left for a week. That was part of the whole thing.

And his dad was yelling about how he was lazy and sloppy. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, there's something that's not adding up here. Well, that was just my dad going off on one of his things, which we're all totally fine with apparently because enabling is our fucking religion. I also, if he says that he worked with Owen for a decade, I don't think he's old enough to have worked for a decade. I don't believe so either.

Alex might be breaking some child labor laws. Well, I mean, there's definitely probably something where I bet, and I'm just going to go out on a limb and say that his relationship with his father is probably not the healthiest one. I'm just going to go reach for the stars on my guesses. Yeah. And just say that that's probably not going to be a good environment to raise a child in. And we all wrestle with our parents. Sure. We all have struggles.

Absolutely. We don't all need to do this. No. You know, there's something, I don't, listen, maybe this isn't popular. Okay. But I think there's a certain sort of person who's trying to be too big who should not be allowed to have kids. Yeah. You know, like you shouldn't be Michael Jordan's kid.

You just shouldn't be his kid. There's no win. There's no way you can do anything. It makes me think of, you know, Roy Jones Jr., the boxer. Yeah. He had that album, Roy Jones Jr. Round 1, the album. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And he had a song called Y'all Musta Forgot that was a single on the radio.

Yeah. It was about how you must have forgot how good of a boxer he was. They must have forgotten how good of a boxer he was. Yeah. Yeah. And most of it, a lot of it was just about how, like, he knocked people out. Sure. And stuff.

He was good at that. Sure. There's a line in it, though, that is like, will there be another Roy Jones probably not? Yeah. I stopped Virgil Hill with a body shot. Nice. You must have forgot. Yeah.

And, like, he has a son that's Roy Jones the third. You can't have that mentality. If you're a singular person, if you're a great, you can't have a kid. Yeah, I think it's that extension. And the part of it is like, if you're that crazy great, right? There's no way that you don't at least a little bit

view your kid as an extension of how great you are. Right? Because everything is about how great you are. And no matter how well you do at trying to fight that back, you're going to imprint that on the kids somehow. Yeah, it's not possible. because even if you don't, there's the entire world that says you do, you know? Like even if Michael Jordan was the best father, every time that kid is outside of Michael Jordan's house,

they're like, you're Michael Jordan's kid. So, Owen's on, and he's wrestling with some of the big questions. Yeah. You know, like, is it bad now? Yeah. It feels, we can't tell. We're trying to decide. This is the gray area, right?

Talk about the theme of the show. Sure. We're trying to decide if this is really worse than it's ever been. Like, is this really as bad as it's ever been? Or does it just feel that way because we had such high hopes for this Trump administration? We went through so much to get here. I mean, we went through so much to get here. And now it feels like we've been totally betrayed, to put it simply.

So it's like, is it really that bad? Is it really worse than it's ever been? Or does it just kind of feel that way because of the betrayal? and because of all the work it took to get here, but regardless, the result is the same. An easy answer to Owen's question is that it's definitely as bad as it's ever been and that he wasn't betrayed. It's as bad as it's ever been,

not because things are actually as bad as they've ever been. Like other periods of history have been demonstrably worse, but none of them are happening right now. Things are as bad as they've ever been because we don't know how this plays out, but we do know that things are bad and they're heading in a bad direction. The past has already happened, and we can see the effects of past bad times and do our best to learn for them, but our present is uniquely dangerous because we don't know what's going to happen,

and we don't know what the consequences of today's actions are going to be. And Owen wasn't betrayed, except by himself. No one who treated Trump realistically is at all surprised by what he's doing. It might be a little more brazen than some people expected, but everything is in line with who he was from day one. Oh, N was a fine sports broadcaster who dreamed of something bigger, and at 2015 he saw the easiest shortcut to those dreams in the form of bullying people at protests. It was so easy, and he got a job at InfoWars that paid him way more

than he'd be getting at a local station doing sports, which realistically is probably what he'd end up doing. Yep. He has some skills, so maybe he could have gotten on ESPN or some other big name in sports broadcasting, but it's also a competitive field, so luck is going to come into it. and he maybe never would have gotten his break. That beard's never going to get you on ESPN.

He probably would trim it. I'm just saying. In working for Info Wars and going along with everything he promoted for years, Owen made a deal with the devil. He got to be way richer than he had any business being, and he got to have a career in what felt like media. What was asked in return was that he promote the party line, which was Trump fanaticism. The disappointment Owen feels with Trump now isn't real disappointment with Trump. It's a disappointment that the fake version of Trump he made a career off selling doesn't exist. It's a disappointment that the game is kind of over because it was a fun, easy game for them to play for the last decade.

That's something that I think is so critical and why these kind of people can't be trusted ever again. They weren't just wrong to be optimistic about Trump. If that were the case, then you could easily say, eh, man, we all get things wrong sometimes. It's not a crime to have hope. Sure. Come on, let's, you know, no one's perfect. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But they weren't optimistic.

They lied. They were optimistic that they'd get away with lying and that it wouldn't blow up in their faces. But they straight up lied to their audience for years in order to make the audience feel optimistic about Trump. Until there's some accounting of how they lied to sell Trump in the past, you can't possibly think that anything Owen is saying now isn't just another lie that's meant to sell what he thinks is his best shot at a new marketable brand. Yeah. So, yeah, your gray area. as what cares. I mean, it's just absurd on its face because

for all of these people who are somehow like, I feel betrayed, have I been? If you go back in time to 2016 and you just say, like, let's make a deal, right? I'll support Trump. But if he ever violates the Constitution to the point where you have to say he violated the Constitution, then he's done.

He's out. He's dead to you. We're all, he's dead to all of us, right? They would of course made that deal because no matter what, even if he had violated the Constitution, they would have been like, I can lie my way through it. Right? They would never have guessed that they would get to the point where they would say, that motherfuckers violating the Constitution.

Right. They never thought that they would get to the point where they were worried. Exactly. About, about maintaining their brand. Right. And because they are here and because they never thought they would be here, they're way willing to go as far. You know, like, is it? it as bad as it's ever...

What are you fucking talking about? Mm-hmm. That you're asking that question is the answer to that question. To Alex Jones's son. Right. Guy who does a show with Alex Jones's son. Right? Who I have no idea who he is.

Yeah, I can't imagine how you would. Yeah. So, um, they get to complaining and talking about how Trump, uh, seems to be a kind of doing dictator type propaganda. Well. That's no good. Wow. And then I don't know if you saw this, but Trump put out.

a video, or I guess it was after the Massey rally, and he's in Cincinnati or the anti-Massie rally. I mean, Trump is straight up doing North Korean level propaganda now. Yes. He goes, honestly, I mean, Kim Jong-un is blushing. He goes in front of the media and he says how successful the war has been. He says he's had the best presidency in the history of the country. He says the economy's better than it's ever been. What is he going to say next?

He shot 18 on 18 holes of golf. Like, this is getting ridiculous. Who does he think he's fooling? Like, who does he think it's fooling? Ridiculous propaganda. Owen's criticism of Trump is fine, and he's not wrong. It all just rings hollow because Trump was always doing that shit. Owen was at January 6th.

He did the caravan of the Stop the Steel rallies. He only owns a house now because he was willing to sell the dictator level of propaganda that Trump was putting out then. It's great that he feels. feels upset and he doesn't want to do that job anymore, but I'm not sure he realizes how making this criticism just kind of indicts his whole career. He had no problem parroting Trump's absurd self-serving lies in the past. So all of a sudden, being able to accurately assess that this is dictator levels of propaganda just tells you that he knew what he was selling in the

past. Yeah. He's a willing participant in those. He wasn't fooled. He's not betrayed. Yeah. You can't do this. Come on. You can't ever know. Because once you know, it's retroactive. You can't, or you have to have some sort of massive come to Jesus moment where you explain to everybody how you could be so fucking stupid not to realize that you were the fucking government propaganda to begin with. Right. Like you finally read a book or something and it like really blew your mind or something and then you can have a paradigm shift or whatever. Honestly, guys, guys, I have only talked about, I'm willing to admit it right now. I've only talked about 1984. I've never actually read it. So I've read it and you know what? Not a bad book.

There's some stuff in there that I didn't know. So I've realized something. I quit all the things I've ever done before. Now I'm going to do an interview complaining with Alex Jones's son. That's the same thing as learning. So Owen, I think that there's some passive aggressive shots at Rex's day that may be happening throughout this. I'm liking that. So I would ask MAGA this because I don't take anything in politics personally. I think feeling, you know, feeling a little heartbreak or betrayal is natural after everything we went through to get here. But I don't take anything in politics personally. So getting betrayed by a politician, getting lied to by a politician, like, okay, whatever, the sun comes up. What is really, I think,

worse is watching what MAGA has turned into. And, you know, Rex, you were there with us at the grassroots level of this. We've been in the streets together. I was one of the first people in the media to come out in support of Trump when he came down the elevator. And so it's like we've got to this point. And now all of these people that are basically living off the movement that we created. It's like they're wearing our movement as like a skin suit, as like an avatar. And all it is to them is a business model. All it is to them is a grift.

All it is to them is like a popularity contest in high school where they've never sat at the cool kids table. And now they feel like, oh, we're running the cool kids table. And you're like, what are you doing here? This was our movement. You guys are just completely destroyed it. This conversation can't be happening between these two people without it feeling like he's talking about Rex's dad. How is it not? Yeah.

How are you not talking about my dad is my next question. Who fired you? Yeah. Or maybe you quit. I don't know. Remember all that stuff? You're talking about my dad, right? Remember when he said he was going to kill you and, uh, by the way, my dad's outside.

Anyways, uh, just irrelevant information for this conversation. But anyways. He pays my rent through a pass-through company with a, uh, a, uh, a pass-through company with a, my CDD company or whatever the fuck. Or worse. Can he somehow, in defiance of God's will, not know that Owen is talking about his dad? Well, no, I don't think Rex could be that naive. It can't be.

I think that Owen could probably trick himself into thinking that he's not talking about Alex. Oh, I'm talking about MAGA. I'm talking about all those other MAGA people. Alex is his own thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. because he doesn't take things personally. That does make me want to strangle him.

Yeah, because he does. That makes me want to strangle him, not least of which, because even if that was true, even if he didn't take things personally, what you believe is that I should put children in cages. So, yeah, it's fucking personal. It becomes personal very fast. Yeah. And he's talking about being betrayed by the president.

Yeah, there's definitely that. That's personal. That's emotional. Don't pretend you don't take this personally. Nope. your boss, the guy you worked for for a decade, cries on air about how he and Trump have a psychic mind-meld connection and can finish each other's sentences. Yeah.

And at the very least, if you are feeling betrayed, it is also a religious betrayal because you have tied so much. Heresy. Yeah, you've tied so much religion into this. You might as well no longer believe in God you've been betrayed so bad. So you brought up this idea of at the beginning of the Trump time, being like, okay, here's a red line I would suggest for you. Yeah. And if we cross that red line, then you're obligated.

You're obligated. You're by your own words. We're signing the deal with me, the devil. And Owen kind of wants that now. Yeah. Here's what I would like to see from whatever's left of MAGA. And I doubt they'd be able to commit to any of this because I think they know. I think they know they've been fooled. I think they know they're unpopular and you kind of see them crashing out right now. But I'd like to say this. For me, the line has already been crossed. So I'm already out. All right. I mean, just look at the situation. in Iran. I wanted zero, I wanted zero war with Iran. I wanted zero Iran strikes. I wanted zero dead American soldiers. I wanted zero dollars spent on a war in Iran. So that was already crossed for me. I knew my, I knew my red lines already crossed for me. That's just one situation.

So I would ask whatever's left of MAGA, I'd say, do you have any red lines? Is there any line where you will say, if Trump does this, I will be upset? Or are you just full-blown cult right here? Are you just full-blown cult-cuck mindset that no matter what Trump does, you're going to celebrate it? Because he's pretty much betrayed every campaign promise. It really feels like Owen's talking about Rex's dad. Yeah. So I think that Owen knows the answer to this question. Yeah.

There are a couple of red lines depending on the person, but they're all practical calculations. Some people's red line is if they really need a rebrand because they got fired from a shitty job where they worked for a raving alcoholic who seems like he's dying. Hmm. They will be willing to ditch Trump when they're convinced that there's more money. money to be made on the other side of the shit-talking economy. Far more people will have a red line that is, they will be willing to treat Trump as the piece of shit they know him to be once there's a viable alternative who they think will be

racist and pro-business enough. That group includes people like Alex, and it really does make sense if you think about it. Making the jump from Ron Paul to Trump is a serious blow to your principles, but it's an upgrade in terms of power. You went from your hero being a guy in Congress who most people were tired of to have. a president who controlled a cult of personality. The option is there to make that jump again, but there's no upward jumps to be made. Massey is probably the best choice for them to get behind, but that would be basically going back

to Ron Paul. If you'd never left Ron Paul, that's a smooth transition. But because of the choices the extreme right is made in the past decade, that looks like them going from varsity to junior varsity. Yeah. Making that step is backwards for them. Yeah. Yeah, I wish there was some sort of religion, some huge, like maybe one of the most popular ones ever, that had something that was like, it's really, like, maybe that humility and being humbled is like the path to, like, becoming a better person or to improving things.

Like, it would be so cool if there was like a big focus on humility in this, like, popular religion. That would be great. Did I tell you that Owen has a gold microphone? No, he does not. Of course. He's trying to be rushed. Oh, my God. So, anyway, basically the red line is being provided another option. Yeah.

They'll all turn on Trump once they feel like they can do that without losing power. And that's basically the tension that their world has. Yeah. None of, like, not enough of them are convinced that Vance is viable. I mean, it's, to hear Owen say this shit is like, buddy, it's a green line. If you were being paid enough, you'd still be a fan of Trump, wouldn't you? It is because you are not available to get that money that you are, the red line has been crossed for me.

Yeah. Get the fuck out of here. It's better for you now. And some of the stuff that you say because of that is better. And some of it is preferable, but I cannot take any of it seriously. No, it means nothing. It means nothing. Yeah.

You can say the same shit that I might say, but you're a liar. Mm-hmm. So Owen talks a little bit about political theory. I'm excited to hear what. his theories are. He's pretty deep. Okay. This happens every time in right-wing politics. It's like cyclical. And that's why people like Nick Fuentes are kind of

turned into this accelerationist mindset or just burn it to the ground mindset because this happens every time. Republican politics get unpopular. Populism and nationalism takes over the body politic of the right of the GOP.

It gives us election victories. We get into power and then the establishment steals everything from us. And then the establishment takes our movement, turns it into neocons, turns it into war mongers. The same crap we've been dealing with. They just did it with Trump. And so now we're sitting here and we're saying, not again, not again. The entire right-way Republican GOP establishment, are we saying it has to be completely removed from the picture altogether. Otherwise, we're going to win these victories. And then when we actually get in power, nothing happens that we want to happen. It's an interesting theory

that Owen has about that political cycle. I have a slightly different explanation that I like him to consider. Right-wing politics are always unpopular. They suck shit, and they're disproportionately meant to hurt the vast majority of the population to benefit the rich. That's what their ideology is based around that's all the John Birch Society kind of Cold War post-shit was all about. It's not that populism makes conservative ideas popular and then gets people elected

who are then corrupted by neocons. It's that populism is a lie and a manipulative strategy that's often used by people who want to uphold the existing system by appealing to those people who feel disaffected by it. Trump is and always was a billionaire elite who wanted to use the government to enrich himself and his associates. He just tricked Owen and all the other MAGA people into thinking that he was a populist in order to accrue that power. And that's the cycle that keeps repeating. Yep. This isn't about conservative or liberal ideas. It's about fraud. And it's a fraud that Owen gladly participated in. And I think that, uh, you know, if anything,

thing left to our own devices without populist demagoguery and nonsense. Sure. I think that gradually left-leaning ideas become more popular over time because people start to see the ways that they materially benefit them. Sure. And that is a cycle that is disrupted by the emergence of people like Trump who exploit racist tendencies in people in order to push a false populism. Sure.

And Owen is a part of that system and only has a career because of it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I would also say probably that no one seriously believes telling the truth is a successful winning strategy is also probably a big downside. Mm-hmm. Yep. Yeah. Yeah, but in media?

Exactly. No, I mean, it is an unreasonable thing to expect people to tell the truth. but if you want a system that works, it kind of has to be built on honesty, so we're fucked. It should be. And yet here we are, a guy who worked for Alex for 10 years

talking to Alex's kid. Yep. Great. And the cats and the cradles. So I felt like Owen was taking some shots. Yeah. At Alex a little bit. Yeah.

And then I was surprised that Rex really seems like he's shitting on his dad too. All right. I think what they realized, like the establishment people in the GOP, Trump, whatever, his handlers, whatever, I think they've realized is that they can marry the crazy evangelical Christians and crazy Christians, Zionists that truly do believe in the message, the mission, the lighting the signal fire to bring Jesus back in World War III, the apocalypse in the Middle East,

and they can unite the grifters. The people trying to make the money, the people in the game, people, you know, making that ad sense cash. They can connect those groups together where we have a group that truly believes in it too much, than a group doesn't believe in anything at all. And Bing, Bang, Boom, that's your new base. And as long, I think as long as they can extract money out of people, they don't even care about the midterms. It really feels like Rex is describing his dad there, right?

The marriage of true believers and grifting. Like, that perfectly describes Alex's business model. How do you not, how do you even argue that you don't know? Right. You're talking about, how do you argue that you don't know you're talking about the guy? Yeah, if you don't know, we can see it and maybe you should talk to somebody. Absolutely.

If you can say that and not hear it, we've got more problems than that you can't understand it. Yeah. Yeah. Rex knows that his dad pretends that God talks to him and gives him special missions, which would qualify as true belief, or at least the portrayal of it. Right. He also knows that his dad's a craven attention addict who uses that appearance of true belief to funnel sales to his various supplement lines.

It's a grift. I think that Rex is kind of right. that the current right wing is a union between very serious ideologues and conman, but it's silly to hear that coming from him. No one would even know who he was, except for the fact that his dad presided over the ceremony where those two things got married. Yep. So like what?

You need to talk to somebody. I mean, see a doctor. It, no, it makes sense if you are rebelling against your dad. He's a kid still. He's rebelling against his. I would argue it'd still be good to talk to somebody. I strongly agree with you. Okay.

Just making sure that wasn't a rebuttal to my point. No, no, no, no, no. Absolutely not. Strongly agree. I'm just trying to, I'm just trying to say that there is some natural behavior here. Totally. But it's crazy. It's only crazy if he doesn't acknowledge what is so obvious.

And like I said, I turned it off when I was getting pretty boring to me. Yeah. And I didn't hear any acknowledgement of, I'm fucking pissed off at my dad You can go fly a kite I don't take any of his money anymore Was it was it like five minutes after you turned it off That they went

You know we can just say we're talking about Alex now Right? Like we can just move We've been dancing around it We're just talking about Alex right Dan's bored by now He will have served his own Yeah

If so then yeah If it was addressed If he was wrestling with like Yeah That part of why anyone would ever listen to his show Yeah Then yeah I guess

maybe it's interesting but like yeah while it's subtext it's fucking it's insane it's insane yeah man I just had the thought

that you're like for whatever legacy people ever have one that would be truly perfect for you would be somebody listening to one of these

dumb dumb right wing people's podcasts and have them at some point say yeah Dan probably stop listening to this one by now. That would be, that would truly be like, this man's everywhere. This man's in the eyes of all of these people. They can hear his footsteps coming.

I don't pretend even for a second that anyone even thinks about me or live in their head rent-free. But yeah, that would be very fun. That would be fucking hilarious. Yeah. So, Rex, you know, much like Owen was talking about some of the big questions before. Sure. Rex gets into some of his own. Some of the deeps.

I often talk about this a lot with Tim or just. solo by myself, what does the post-Trump era of politics look like in America? Because for more than a decade, people have been obsessed with this guy, following this guy, like love or hate him, no one's indifferent about Trump, right, to this very day. But you look at someone like a Vance or someone like a Rubio that's associated with this toxic, evil betrayal administration, and they're supposed to run a primary and everyone's be like, I'm behind Rubio, I'm behind Vance. They want to run Vance off of just pure name, name value association with Trump, and they want to run Rubio as kind of a new Hispanic Obama.

At least that's how I see it. I see it as like they're a new Jeb Bush, right? And then someone's going to come on that field, whether it's Massey or someone else. I tend to think that it's going to be someone we haven't even thought of yet or haven't even considered. What do you think that looks like just for their political prospects in the post-Trump world?

I tend to agree. I think that I personally don't think I could vote for anybody that's part of this administration. Maybe my mind will be changed when we get to that point. It will. But right now, I don't see anybody from this administration being electable. I think the stench of the current status of the Trump administration will stick with whoever decides to run for president outside of it. So right now, Owen can say this and there's no real stakes. He can tell Trump's circling the drain and he's trying to save himself. In 26, it's very easy for him to say that he won't vote for someone in the administration. But as 2028 gets closer, we'll see if he doesn't end up terrified of the Democratic candidate and start. playing lesser of two evils games.

Yep. Also, I can't help but think that Rex is kind of doing an impression of his dad. Yep. He knows that Alex is trying to soft launch supporting Vance, so it feels like he's making fun of the old man. Yeah. They're doing that voice. And also it can't help but feel like there's a desperation of a fantasy that someone will come along and save them like Trump did with the, you know, taking out Jeb Bush.

someone will appear and be funny. I mean, listen, I guess I am the only person in this world who's fucking crazy. But if I'm doing math, right, I'm saying this is a person who already was fine with overthrowing the country and maybe pulled it off. And instead of going to jail, became president again, right? And now that he's president again,

he has committed a bunch of actual literal fucking crimes, super crimes, Crimers are like, that's too crimy. Over through two countries at least. Right, right, right. Now, I'll just throw this out there. If I have committed super crimes that people might want to hold me accountable for, and I've already been fine overthrowing a country's government,

I doubt I'm going to be interested in a Democratic election where I might lose. Yeah, you know, that is a point that is very difficult to argue. Yeah. I don't think that, you know, we're necessarily destined or that's inevitable. the path that things are going to go down. But yeah, you know, just based on the psychology, the individual, as Jeeves would say, it's tough to imagine bequeathing power knowing you're probably going to go to jail for the rest of your life. Yeah.

I mean, but maybe I'm insane. I don't think that's that insane. I think thinking that it's definite is insane. Sure. But thinking that like, hey, we should be pretty aware that that seems like something that somebody who's like this would do. Yeah. I don't think that's insane. Yeah.

Feels like planning ahead for it would be wise. Sure. Yeah. So Alex's son, Rex. Right. He has a co-host. Yeah, that's this Tim guy. Why not go with the Jones Zone?

That's pretty good. Well, I think there's a part of him probably wants to pretend he's like his own person. I get that. I get that. Yeah. So maybe you don't want. And Alex's website used to be the Jones Report. So, like, maybe it's way too close.

Yeah, the Jones zone. You're a kid. You got that oof. Yeah, come on. I don't know if he's that much of a kid anymore. I mean, he's in his 20s. He could be, yeah. The last time I remember talking about him, he was like 12.

So in my head, that's where he stays. Sorry, kid. There was a point while we were doing this show that it felt unethical to talk about. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now he's got his own show, which makes me feel like, one, mortality. Mortality is coming down the pipeline. Yeah.

And two, these kids. these days. Go outside. So Tim discusses how he doesn't feel like there's anything he can do because he hates Trump and all that and all this is going bad, but he doesn't want people to make fun of him for being a lib.

My biggest fear here is like, okay, I can't even vote for anybody at this point. That's the whole reason why we started the show, right? I mean, we were like you don't want to fix the world and make things better? We were like, we're tired of being lied on from both sides

And so now I just have no choice but to stay in the center and just call everybody out on their bullshit. And I have no problem. When the next Democrat comes in, I'll be just as critical. But now, you know, me even being critical of Trump, anything that's happening right now, I'm automatically labeled as like a libt heart. That's right. I'm like, hold on. Who could have seen this coming? I just say wrong is wrong anymore.

And that, you know, when the Democrats were doing this and if you were to criticize the vaccine, they would call you a calming. you know, Republican and conservative, you know, all these different names that they had. And I'm just, I'm feeling disingenuous at this point. It's great to call out all sides. And I'm sure that's what Tim thinks he's doing. But he's doing an episode with Owen Schroyer on a show that he hosts with Alex Jones's son. The fact that he would be in that position makes me pretty sure he doesn't have a sincere interest in calling out bullshit. Yeah.

Because here's the thing. The people who would call him all those names for not supporting Trump enough are the people. People in that room, maybe Owen and Rex are trying to rehab their images, but they're the people who bullied folks on the right who didn't like Trump. Their net worth was collected by demonizing never-Trumpers. And when they're talking about this, Rex can't even stop himself from doing an impression of his dad calling someone a liberal. Yep. I know that Tim misspoke when he said that he feels disingenuous, but it's actually very accurate. That's the perfect word to use.

That is the perfect word to use. This is deeply disingenuous. I mean, it is wild that I accepted that he misspoke because the only reason I would accept that is that it makes too much sense to say the appropriate word in that situation. I don't think it's a Freudian slip where he understands. I think he really just used the wrong word. But that being said, like, yeah, it sucks that, you know, if you don't fall in line exactly with Trump, someone is going to make fun of you online. That's the culture that Alex wrote a wave on. Like the Owen Troy, the person that you're talking to bullied people at protests.

Yeah. To start his career. Like this, this is the tone and the political tenor that they, that enabled them to exist. Yeah. So like, sorry. The only. It sucks to deal with, but it's their fault. Yeah, no, that's what makes me so angry.

It makes me so, it makes me so much more angry than doing this than just being people who call people libtarts. Yeah. This makes me so angry. because there's no the only way to even engage with this is if these people first take a picture of them in 2016 and go like,

this is me calling me a libtard in 2026. Like that's what has to, you have to connect those two. Otherwise you can go fuck yourself. Otherwise you're just another liar who's going to lie again. But the thing that's tough

is that like as feeling people like obviously you have an empathetic response to somebody saying like, hey, I can't do this without the political online space turning against me and like yeah

it sucks to deal with that I just yeah it's instead of the reaction that you have to someone just calling the names which is fuck you yeah

this has all like yeah that sucks yeah that sucks I hate I I don't want you have to deal with that but hey also fuck you there should be

we shouldn't be allowed to okay as a species right How long ago was it? Not too long ago, but the meme that was the updated version of the reaping and sewing thing, you know, the meme of, this is me sewing. Ha, ha, ha, I'm having a great time. Me reaping.

That sucks, right? We shouldn't be able to have awareness of that. Like, we just shouldn't, it bothers me that people can know it because otherwise it makes now really sad, you know? Like, if people couldn't know it, this would make so much more sense. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Or if they weren't like media figures.

Yeah. You know, like that makes it all the more. And I don't know what Tim was up to. Sure. He seems like Rex's age-ish. So like, I don't know what he was doing in 2016. Sure. But he also has to be aware.

Like if he's doing a show with Alex Jones's son. Yeah. He has a responsibility to be aware of at least a little bit what he's involved in. Yeah. And furthermore, if you guys are mad or scared of being called lip tarts or something, You're shitting all over Alex's dad passive aggressively. It's true. What is this?

You're being the thing. You're embodying the thing. It's, yeah, it's frustrating. It is frustrating. It's frustrating to... You know what it is? It's disingenuous. It's disingenuous.

Yeah. So Owen, he starts bragging a little bit about how, you know, he's just, he's laser-focused on calling out to propaganda. Sounds like him. Sounds like the Owen I know. It's like, I have professional. on how to do a broadcast. So I can put together a show and do a news broadcast. But my instinct, what drives the show, what drives the direction of my coverage is I call out propaganda. I call out propaganda. I call out fake narratives, fake news, whatever. I'm trying to lead my audience

to the closest version of the truth that I can possibly present to them. So like you said, I don't care what's coming from the left. I don't care what's coming from the left. I don't care what's coming from the right, my natural instincts is to counter propaganda. And the fact of the matter is, all the propaganda right now is coming from the right. Now, granted, the right is in total power. So whatever left-wing propaganda they're spewing, it kind of just falls on deaf ears because it's not landing anywhere. It goes into the abyss and it's just gone.

So it's all the right-wingers that are in power that are spewing the propaganda. So people like you, people like me that just don't like being lied to, where are we going to go? we're going to call out the corrupt power on the right and the propaganda they're selling us. Well, it's the same exact, and you talked about it earlier, it's literally libtard language. You look at any of these people with Eric Doherty or Nick Sworder or just to name a fewer cat turd or Benny Johnson would be a better example. Benny Johnson. It's North Korean dear leader style propaganda, is it not? Benny Johnson, yeah.

No, you're 100% right about that. And here's the thing. This is why I'm kind of liking Nick Fuentes a lot these days. He just doesn't care. Good. So honestly, I don't believe that Owen is capable of knowing what is and is not propaganda. And if he is, that's actually worse for him. If he has the instinct to know when something's a fake narrative that's being pushed for propaganda purposes,

then he worked at InfoWars and participated in that knowingly and willingly for like a decade. Yep. I think that what Owen is calling his instinct about propaganda is actually an instinct for marketing. His whole career at Info Wars was based on contrarianism, like marketing yourself as the opposition to the power structure. structure. Obama was in office and they were against that. Trump got into office and they pretended that Obama was still in power. Biden got in and they were against that and pretended that Trump secretly won. Now Trump is back in office and there's really no way to sell the audience that he isn't in absolute power. He's appointed a third of the Supreme Court and the GOP controls

all of Congress. He uses the Department of Justice to protect himself and target enemies. There's no choice for someone who needs to be a contrarian except to be against Trump. now, and Owen understands that. He likes to pretend that he's got a gift for calling out propaganda, but it's really just that he's good at whining and presenting himself as the one who's against the power, as opposed to having an actual stance. Yep. Also, Rex is really shitting on his dad's friends there.

Right. Benny Johnson's on InfoWars a bit, and Nick Sortor hosts his own show on the network. Yep. It makes one wonder why they don't seem to address that elephant in the room, which is they don't seem to like Rex's dad that much. I understand Owen not liking him. I don't know what I understand Rex not liking him. I understand everyone not liking him.

He sucks. Yeah. Just out with it. Just fucking say it. God, I just, I wish these people weren't allowed to use words. Like, I under, because if they were allowed to express what they truly mean, which is like grunting noises at each other and then like a sad sound. like grunt, grunt, grunt.

Like, you know, I've been betrayed by my dad. Like, that's what I feel like they're actually saying. Yeah. And, you know, it makes you wonder if, like, he's talking to Owen and they're like, Nick Sortor is doing Trump, Kim Jong-un-style North Korean propaganda. Yeah. Would he say that if Alex was his guest? Right.

Like, he makes money off Nick Sortor. And Nick Sortor is doing almost identical things to what Alex is doing. And Alex implore. him. Yes. So you would have to connect those dots. Alex is doing North Korean style propaganda. Exactly.

And he's your dad. Exactly. It's a mess. How is this not available information to them? Yeah. You know what? I did realize that this is episode 50 something. So maybe episode one is just him really laying it all out.

Yeah, maybe. Maybe. Hey, listen, this is an I hate Alex Jones podcast. Maybe. I don't know if you guys have listened to Knowledge Fight. So I'm going on this road trip. Yeah. Maybe I'll go in a big Rex hole.

Do not do that. Do not do that. Don't ever say Rexhole? Don't even, uh. No, thank you. Four, baby. There you go. Yeah.

Yeah, that one makes sense. Do you think Rex was named after Rex 84? I never thought about that. No, I think he was named after a Tigranosaurus Rex. Sure. Yeah. Yep. You know.

Yep. Maybe I like to think that he was named after the FEMA camp plan. It would be funny. It would be funny if that was the only way Alex could really remember it. If I were Rex. I would never be able to get that out of my head. No, not once. Nope, I would say it all the time.

Tough. Yep, it's brutal. So this is about where I lost interest in the show. Makes sense. They continue to kind of mock Alex and then also get a little antisemitic. Yeah. Hold on a minute. Tim, it doesn't sound like our guest is very grateful for the peace president.

And we have a problem with that. That is our president. That's right. That's right. We got a big problem with that on the show because they've done. so many great things for us, like, get us into this war and whatnot. That's a thing that I want to ask you about. They tell us, you just listed this horrible situation that we're in and the arrogance, the hubris of thinking that we can quickly get out of it somehow, even if we

declare victory and walk away. Well, it's a sunk-cost fallacy at this point. Sure. We have no option but to continue going forward. Sure. But my thing is, like, they tell you that you have to be grateful for it. Which is somehow not a fallacy this time? Because the foreign policy is so macabre and so insane and so grotesque that we look at it. Like you said, like, you said, like, hey, I'm just taking a break from doing the show to day to recalibrate because it's all too much. It's not enough that it's happening. They don't even not tell you about it. They tell you that it's happening.

They release hype edits of it. People doing football sacks and touchdowns. The Wii sports. Yeah, the week. I enjoyed that one today, right? Why don't you like your goy slap wrecks? I don't get it. You know, we try to make it fun for you.

You like football. We do a little football. You like Pokemon. I think they call it. Pokemon. We do a little Pokemon. And you're just never happy. This leads into like maybe a three minute.

dueling Trump impressions thing. Ugh. And it's kind of weird because they used to be mad when other people would do Trump impressions. Yeah. And they used to love that shit. Yeah. All of the stuff that they're mocking is exactly like what they loved.

Yep. So that's fun. But they also repeatedly use that term, goy slop. I really, that's, you know, that's one that's real bad. Mm. Yeah. That one says it all if, if you, if you think about it. Well, it indicates taking something a little personally, taking politics a little personally.

I get, like, I do not think that you can't criticize Israel. Sure. Obviously. Yeah. I think when your criticisms descend into throwing around terms like goy slop. I've never heard that before. Right. Right.

I think you're in a territory where it's like, you're telling on yourself a little bit. Your feelings are evoked in this and you're not talking about politics. You're not talking about a government. The thing about a term like that, a slang term like that, is that in order for it to arrive, in order for it to congeal from the ether of this bullshit, right, it probably takes hundreds of hundreds of hundreds of conversations where you're being anti-Semitic until eventually you get something that's slightly clever. and that's what you wind up with. It's not, you didn't just like, oh, hey, I was just thinking about words and combining them together the other day and I came up with this really funny one.

No. No. No. And I don't find it interesting. I also don't find it that edgy. I think that there's kind of a dead giveaway that they're all kind of chasing Nick Fuentes' star, his north star. Yep.

And I think that there's an, I don't, I don't know if I want to put it this way. But Millie Weaver warned Alex. And now he's kind of lost his son to doing an impression of a different racist. That is a good point. Alex could have avoided this and still been his son's hero instead of someone his son is clearly making fun of on his show while idolizing the baby Nazi that Alex, really shouldn't have associated with to begin with. Nope. Man.

Here's, okay, it's like me sewing. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. Me reaping. Oh, sad face. Yeah. That sounds about right. Yeah. That's like all that we're live in.

That's all that is, when I look outside, that's it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So, I'm going in the wrecks hole. Yeah. I'll see you later, buddy. Call me from the road. I'm going to go watch 50 episodes.

episodes of his dumbass talk to this other friend of his. Oh, my God. Who doesn't seem that great? I don't know. I think that there was a time when I definitely would have shied away from an episode like this. Because there's clearly familial and psychosocial dynamics that are being played out on air. And they're not talking about it, but it's there. It's haunting this.

And I think it's inappropriate. But now I'm at the point where I'm at the point where I'm. I think it's kind of funny. And they're doing it to themselves. He put this out. It's not my fault. You know, it's interesting. We've had plenty of emails.

We've had plenty of conversations, very kind ones with the wonks, who have been like, you guys being open and talking honestly about your mental struggles and illnesses and all of that stuff has been inspiring and has helped us to do that same for ourselves, right? I can't imagine doing the opposite and having people be like, man, you guys being in denial about very obvious things has allowed me to divorce my wife. Well, me divorce her as a strong way of describing her leaving me with the kids. Mm.

Yep. And, you know, just as a kind of last thought to put a bow on things, I don't know what times things were recorded. Sure. But there's a chance that Alex is almost dying on Tim Poole while his son is making fun of him with the guy who he fired. My son is talking shit about me. So that's an interesting confluence of events. Anyway, we will be back. Indeed.

We're going to keep putting stuff out. We'll theoretically be able to record even if I'm gone, but we have some episodes pre-recorded, so things will go on as normal, but I'm excited to get out there. Yeah, I'm excited for you. I couldn't be happier. Thank you.

Could not be happier for you, buddy. And I would be lying if I didn't say that at least part of the excitement that I have is about telling you stupid things I'm doing. I'm, I, so couldn't, couldn't be more delighted. Yeah. So we'll be back. But until then, we have a website. Indeed, we do.

It's knowledge fight.com. Yep. We'll be back. Until it, I'm Neo. I'm Leo. I'm DZX Clark. I am the mysterious professor. Who, yeah.

And now here comes the sex robot. Andy in Kansas, you're on the air. Thanks for holding. Hello, Alex. I'm a first-time caller. I'm a huge fan. I love your work. I love you.