Knowledge Fight - #184: Godly Particles and Illiteracy

Episode Date: July 25, 2018

Today, Dan tells Jordan all about a time travel request from Listener Johnathan, where the gents listen to Jim Bakker and some of his dumb friends talking about CERN. That is where the episode starts, but it goes so far off the rails that nothing in this description could ever help you make sense of what it is about.

Andy and Kansas, you're on the air, thanks for holding. Hello, Alex, I'm a first-time caller, I'm a huge fan, I love your work. I love you. Hey, everybody, welcome back to Knowledge Fight, I'm Dan. I'm Jordan. We're a couple dudes that sit around, drink novelty beverages, and talk a little bit about Alex Jones. Indeed we are, Dan. Although it's not so much novelty beverages at this point, it seems like logonidus is in strong rotation.

You know, it's... I'm running out. When we go to the liquor store, I've pretty much picked out just about every novelty beer and drink that I can find there. We've been doing this show. Well, you've gone through all the novelty IPAs for sure. You definitely veer that direction. Well, you get a novelty wheat beer and you're in for some hurt if you're... It could be some weird fruit. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And then you're gonna mess with coriander. It's gonna fuck you up. Nobody has time for that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I highly recommend avoiding novelty wheat beers. That's just my advice. End up with some... you fuck around and get a white rascal. Ooh, no, no chance.

Uh-uh, uh-uh. So... So, that was a great opening bit. I suppose. Anyway, this show is where I know a lot about Alex Jones. And I only know what you tell me about Alex Jones. And it's not only about Alex Jones, it's about all sorts of other things. Very difficult to explain show.

If you're jumping in here, sorry. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry. It's evolved into all con men everywhere. We will find you and, you know... Talk about you? Yeah, for a while. Yeah.

So, today, Jordan, we're gonna be doing a time traveling episode of sorts. Hey! Um, last episode, we gave a shout out to a listener, Jonathan, who got in touch with me and he had a very good request, an interesting request. I'm very mad at him for giving me this request. Yes. Because it took me down more rabbit holes than I needed to go down. Okay.

I complained about this to you already. You've been bitching at me about this for a while now. So, now it's time to blame him. It's not his fault. I appreciate it on the other level because I got to learn a number of things that are a lot of fun and get introduced to some folks that I wouldn't have otherwise. But, um, I wanted to say that I'm putting together a book to keep track of everything much more completely, much more like a to-do list.

Yes. Sort of thing, trying to organize my life and my business. Right. Um, and so, I wanted to take a second to recognize that this is a time travel episode, but there are others that are coming. Some of them are coming because I, and they haven't been done because I keep forgetting and that's my bad. All right.

We will make everything right. This is our new opening bit. You apologizing for all the stuff that you haven't done. Well, there's a little bit of that. We've been doing that quite frequently recently. But then there's this, there's another element to it and there's a one, um, time travel episode that I've been putting off a little bit and not, not for not wanting to do it, but I've realized that I can't do it.

Um, and that, I'll explain it. No need to beat around the bush about why. Um, so listener Jim, who came and visited, we had some drinks. Oh yeah. We had a wonderful time. He, uh, requested, I believe you requested his birthday. Um, and then it turned out being, uh, the episode that I found from his birthday was when Benjamin Netanyahu came to the United States.

Oh, that's right. And it's complicated because Alex is in a state where he's like pro Israel, but also pro sovereignty. He's into, he's in a weird bubble state and it's difficult to sort of get into. But I realized why I've been putting that off is because when we're in 2009 and we are looking at him be very pro Palestinian and fairly anti the state of Israel. I don't think jumping forward to that point when he's going to say pro Israel things is necessarily all that interesting for our path through this.

I'd like to get to that episode where Netanyahu comes to America eventually. Organically. Well, not necessarily organically, but I think that it does all of us much more in terms of understanding, um, and learning, uh, to watch him pivot towards being pro Israel and anti Palestinian. Right. Cause we know that's the end result eventually. Yeah, of course.

So I think I, it's, it's difficult for me to get myself to do that episode because I want to watch him change as opposed to see him post change and then go back and watch him change. Yes. If that makes sense, like from a structure of our show standpoint, it feels weird. So this is my way of saying an apology to Jim, but that time travel episode might be two years from now. It might not be, but also anyways, if you'd like to speed it up, you can bump your donation

up to that. Yeah. That's not what I'm saying. If you, if he, if he has another suggestion, you should feel free to tell me and it's not because I'm dodging, talking about Israel or any of that shit, right? Just from a narrative storytelling structure, I think it blows our 2009 shit a little bit. So, and also if you have one that you think I've forgotten about, which is entirely, it's might be possible.

Yeah. Or if you haven't donated on that level and you want to try and trick me, you're also very welcome to send me an email and I will start putting together my to do list and get everything in order. Yeah. We'll be, we'll be rocking and rolling as they said, back in the old fifties or something. Sure. Is that what they, is that what they said in the old fifties?

Oh, fifties. So, Jordan, today we have a time travel episode that is not an Alex Jones based time travel episode. Okay. This is an instance where Jonathan actually got in touch with me and was one of the inspirations and sort of motivations for me to bring Jim Baker into our fold. Okay. As it were, he sent me a message about how he was right in line with the con man stuff

and I was like, oh, of course he is. I've been meaning to get a look at him. Yeah. Let's do it. Yeah. So, he had an instance of the Jim Baker show the day before he went to jail. No, I don't think those archives are up. Oh, okay.

This is from May, I believe it's seventh through 10th, no, eighth through 10th. I'm not sure. Okay. Whatever. Those few days in 2015. Oh, that's my birthday. Hey, happy birthday. Hey.

This is a time travel for you too. For me too. Hey. It's three days, but you know what Jim Baker does is he just records it all and then puts it out in chunks. I did not know that. Yeah. Why would I know that?

I just assumed that you would think that I, why would you know that? So that's a crazy thing to know. He and Lori sit down on Grace Street with their guest and they probably record something to the tune of like four hours of them talking shit. And then he cuts it up and while he doesn't, his, his children do, cuts it up, it chunks and then he releases it throughout the week as if it was multiple different like one hour segments. Yes.

Like that. Okay. Okay. Now I got you. Smart. It maximizes. Absolutely. We should fucking do that.

No, that's how they, that's how they film like a family feud and shit. You bang out like eight episodes in a day. You got the whole week. Meanwhile, idiots like us sit down for three hours and then put that out and then put out another two hours. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

You know, it's called a time consuming and maximizing effort while minimizing profit. Isn't that how that works? Very dumb. We're not good. We need a production crew or a bunch or a bunch of teens. Damn it. Got there first. So Jordan here is an out of context drop from today's show.

Netflix is a fulfillment of prophecy for me. Me too. You know, there was, there was no, when he said Netflix and paused, I was like, there's no, there's no good way that this ends. It's going to be the devil is going to be awful. It's going to be sucking the life out of our children. I did not see it coming as his own prophecy. It is a fulfillment of prophecy of his prophecy, my prophecy, his prophecy specifically.

How come he wasn't on the ground floor then, huh? I think he was in prison. That timeline doesn't match up now because he's not wanted. That's why no one wants him dead or alive. Man, steel horse. That guy rides. That's a train. So Jordan, we're going to get into this.

There's going to be a lot of science. Wait, the steel horse is a train? Yeah. I always thought it was a motorcycle. It could be. You're right. I always, now motorcycles aren't made of steel. I know that's stupid.

I always, are trains made of steel? What are trains made of? Yeah, they're made of steel. I read Ayn Rand. All right. So furthermore, for real, what is gold bullion anyways, continue. It's a soup. It's a stock.

It's a stock. Yeah. Okay. Good. It's like a rich people's. On top of your doughnut. Absolutely. Yeah.

Same thing. I got it. So today, we're going over this, and we're going to sort of treat it as one episode. It doesn't really matter where the breaks are from the days or anything like that. Because it's essentially one episode. Yeah. So we just don't have to listen to the intro three times, but we will listen to it once.

This is a Christmas special. It's hard not to feel happy when that music hits. It's saccharine diabetes and inducing bullshit. It slides in with that chime flourish and then it's so fucking close to dancing queen. It's so close to dancing queen. It's a junior high musical soundtrack. It's sickeningly close to dancing queen. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Damn. I remember the old days. Yeah. Right. I remember the old days. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's fucking interesting. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yes. Yeah.

Yeah. I wish I could say this. Okay. Sure. Sure. Yeah. Sir. Have some restraint.

Act like you've been there before, sir. Isn't it great how it's never the same introduce who it's I know, Gebbe. The…" Or the guy who's leading the band. What are they? What are they off? Do they have weekends?

I can't speak to the but I do know the table is a little crowded. There are people who I don't know who they are sitting at. It's not entirely true because I do now know the defacto co-host who's not Lori. Yeah. This guy named Zach, who he's around a lot. Ah, Zach.

It's not Alex's secret source. All right. All right. When was the last time he was on the show, though? Was he in a different… Baker! Baker! Baker!

I don't know. He should have done that for like 25 minutes. It's entirely possible that Zach's been hiding out in Morning View. That would be the perfect place to hide. Very safe. No one would see you coming. Except for the teens.

Everyone's armed. Yeah, everyone's fucking armed. Teen employees have guns and haven't masturbated. Nope. So here's how the show starts. They have jerked off their guns quite a bit, though. Undoubtedly. Oh, yeah.

Hello! Welcome to Grey Street. Hi there. Our, should I say, dessert. Yeah. Is that right? All right. That's right.

We are sitting right now in the middle of the large Hedron collider. This is the largest machine man ever built. That's right. And it's amazing. The scientists are looking for God. Nope. Whatever happened to church. That's right.

That's right. It was disproved. So this show is going to have a lot to do with CERN. That's good. I like CERN. There's a lot of interesting research going on there. I'm banking, and I will say that a lot of the research that I did has nothing to do with CERN.

Oh, okay. Because I was banking on you knowing a bit about it. I know quite a bit about CERN. And I know enough. I know enough to know, number one, not looking for God. I like the large Hedron collider immensely. It's fantastic. What about some of their other colliders that no one seems to be scared of?

There's the one under... There's tons of them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, but it's not that big. And there's so much other technological research that they've done, like the organizations existed since 1952. It's not like this... Yeah.

You're nodding really dismissively at me. All right. Well, hold on. Up until this point, we weren't able to generate... We weren't able to fire protons and the like with enough speed to actually measure the effects, measure the particles that could be created there. So that is why we built up that. That's why people built up that fake, like, what if it creates a black hole, as if that

was a thing? It's fascinating. It's really fascinating. I would look into it. There's also another one, not necessarily the same thing as the collider, but it's also being built in... Fuck, fuck, fuck. Why can't I remember any of this shit?

Anyways, all kinds of cool shit happens there. Actually... And not just research into the Higgs boson, which was kind of and not kind of discovered. It was a really fascinating thing. In 2013, two years before this episode, by the way. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But the fascinating thing about that is that they wasn't confirmed that the Higgs boson

was what we thought it would be in the standard model. It was kind of. It's a very fascinating thing. They thought it was going to come in at a certain wavelength in one way that would disprove it, that would disprove the standard model, or another way that would perfectly prove it. And instead, it kind of came in the middle and everybody's like, fuck! It's whack-a-doo shit.

Well, you're just... I mean, you sound like a recording of these guys. Oh, okay. They're going to get all into that. They're not going to talk about crazy nonsense. Awesome. I'm excited. I really want to dig into the science here.

All right. Well, you should know it. When it comes, when do we get into string theory and how far away... That's not the question. Oh, it's not? No. The question is, what are those fucking scientists up to? This is a very, very important book on the path of the immortals.

Now, that sounds intriguing right there, Tom. Does it? Also, sounds like a Jedi Mind Tricks album title or something like that. Tom. But I think we're on the same path that they are at... What is that? They want to make contact with the immortals. We're kind of warning that the Earth is going to make contact with them and it's not going

to be pretty. What? Wow. Wow. What? We've got some amazing... Why are you saying, wow? ...stories today.

Amazing news as well. We got amazing stories. Amazing news, Jimmy. There we go. I mean, what more could you ask for? So they're not... The scientists are looking for the immortals. That's the name of the book.

What they're actually doing, you see, is that they're trying to create some sort of a connection where they can communicate with or open up a portal to another dimension. That's what he's saying. That's what he's saying. Yes. Well, first off, based on his voice alone, I trust him. This is Tom Horn here. Tom Horn.

Yeah. He sounds bananas. How does a human being make those sounds out of his mouth? Listen to his voice again. It is disgusting. It grates and it... Oh, it's gross. Well, that's really fucking shitty of you.

Some would say that your voice is grating. I think it absolutely is. I think it absolutely is. It's annoying and I accept that and I allow it. I think my voice has a droning baritone. No, your voice is spectacular and I could listen to it for days. So I think you're being a little bit petty about... I know it's not physical characteristic, but you know it does come from the jowls, probably.

He probably has some jowls, doesn't he, Dan? Look, no matter what you say about his voice or anything like that, you can't argue that he has a grasp on the science. Listen to this. Some scientists are afraid of what they're doing. Is that right? Well, certainly. I mean, you know, as these programs are playing on television, this thing will be revving

up to the most powerful experiments ever conducted on the face of the earth. They are literally going to accelerate hundreds of millions of protons inside of the tubes that you can see there behind us to just beneath the speed of light. Then they're going to compress them down to a human hairs width and they're going to collide as many as 600 million particles per second. This has never happened on earth before unless maybe it was when God spoke and brought all these particles together the first time around. What?

Human hairs width. Man, they're going to compress protons down to a human hairs width. How many protons does he think goes into a human hairs width? Oh, man. Well, probably like one sixth of a proton or something like that. One sixth? Six hairs equals one proton. All right.

So six hairs equals, wait. No six protons. Six protons equal one hair. No. You got to compress the proton down to a hair's length. Okay. A hair's width. This is crazy.

So is that the go, is that like the EU standard of measurement because you know we use inches here? Oh, sure. I want to make sure. A hair's width is actually just down home European slang for a six proton, the size of a cork. So is he talking about the up corks or the down corks? I'm not sure.

I don't think he knows the difference. All right. I'm not going to trust somebody who uses that as like a measurement that they're going to compress protons that have been collided down to hundreds of millions of protons. Sure. In a hair's width. Absolutely. That's like almost 2000 angels dancing on a pin.

He's still treating it as one at a time. He's still treating it as one particle at a time. One particle. Boom. Boom. Hundreds of millions of times. All right. I don't know, man.

Look, the issue is that they got a grasp on the science. Don't fucking worry about it. These are scholars. Okay. That are talking to Jim Baker about it. Jim is coming at it from a really different perspective. He doesn't really know that much. But how can we ignore?

I mean, we have it on the stage right here, Zach. Here's the pictures. In your face. In your face. This is a machine that man has built to try to find out who is God, where is God, is God alive. Not where he was built. They wanted to find the God particle.

Right. Is that right? Very different thing. He thinks it's literal. Yeah. It's a particle. He thinks... But Jim Baker thinks it's literally like particles of God.

They're looking to find God. What is God? Who is God? Those are not questions that scientists are all that concerned with, I don't believe. Nah. Not really. Not really their bag. I...

Would you do the audience a solid and explain the importance of the Higgs boson? Well, the idea is we don't know why gravity. Well, they're the... Or matter. Yeah. Exactly. They don't know why matter. They think particle.

Is it a characteristic? Is there something that endows things with matter, with gravity, with all of this stuff? We don't actually know why it happens. Right. And every time we look into it, it only gets more obfuscating. And every time you do more experiments, they almost seem to contradict each other half the time. And then you got the standard model, which predicts what we think we're going to find.

And that, for the most part, makes perfect sense right up until you get to things like dark matter and things that we just can't measure. We have no idea how to measure. So what they're really looking for is some sort of confirmation of the standard model or some other model, something that points to the standard model being wrong. And then we start getting into wild shit like string theory. That's why we start getting into crazy stuff. All I'm hearing here is they're trying to figure out if God is angry or not.

That's what I hear. Are they making God angry? Probably. Well, that's certainly the argument that's going to be put forth here on this Jim Baker show. Well, because if you start learning how to get gravity going, then maybe we can create gravity. And if we can create gravity, what do we even need God for?

Well, see now you're starting to sound like Jim Baker's paranoid fantasy fears, which is never the best thing in the world. Never great. Eh. Although I think it's probably very consistent that you would embody that which Jim Baker would be afraid of. I think that's probably that does sound like that does sound like me, man, but speaking to things that they're afraid of, there's one aspect of CERN that they cannot stop talking

about Sweden. It's not Sweden. The Shiva deity that they've got, you know, right outside the main offices. All right. All right. I'm loving it. That's what it does. It does the cosmic dance that, that discombubulates the world.

Discombubulates. You can see it. Look at Shiva. Is that that's, that's right. And what Tom just said, I want to reiterate that point right outside of the, not me off my chair, guys, you're going to gain some weight. This is the scientist. Okay.

Why would write scientists who don't believe many times in religion? Why would they have a God put the God back on the screen, Mondo? Is the God Shiva outside the doors of this machine? Why would he be there, Tom? Well, the government of India actually gave that as a gift to CERN because they already were working with CERN. But what's inscribed on the plaque beneath it is equally important for Christ. It is called Omnipresent.

This is the replacement of Jehovah. There's the picture, but there's no, no, no, there is no other God. Well, they think there is. Whoa, those idiots. So they get a hold of those guys. She's got a bunch of arms. No way. They keep coming back to that over and over again, sort of like, this is a false God.

Yeah. Like, all right, all right. So it was a gift from the, the government of India, the state of India, because they were an associate country with working on CERN. I just want to, I want to write, just read this, writing, writing about the statue, Alden Randall Conde, a postdoc student working at CERN, wrote, quote, in the light of day when CERN is teeming with life, Shiva seems playful, reminding us that the universe is constantly shaking things up, making itself and is never, remaking itself and is never static.

But by night, when we have more time to contemplate the deeper questions, Shiva literally casts a long shadow over our work, a bit like the shadows on Plato's cave. Shiva reminds me that when we still don't know the answer to one of the biggest, the biggest questions presented by the universe, and that every time we collide the beams, we must take the cosmic balance sheet into account. So I'm going to say real quick, nerd, and number two, look at what it's like whenever you hear somebody who's intelligent talk, right, isn't that amazing? Listen to those words and then compare them with, even when I stumbled over a couple of

them, compare them with, uh, they're trying to kill God. This is the, this is the false Jehovah devil. They're trying to replace Jehovah. Uh, hold on. There is only one God. Uh, also, excuse me, sir. Also, physicist Fritz, uh, Fritz Jav Capra further explained in the Tao, uh, the Tao of physics, quote, the dance of Shiva symbolizes all, uh, the basis of all existence.

At the same time, Shiva reminds us that the manifold forms in the world are not fundamental, but illusory and ever changing. I need you to stop using words like manifold and illusory. If we've got Jim Baker listening, he does not understand those words. Modern physics has shown that the rhythm of creation and destruction is not only manifest in the turn of the seasons and in the birth of death, birth and death of all living creatures, but also in the very essence of inorganic matter. So there's a lot of very nice poetic ways that you can, uh, work in the, the idea of,

uh, you know, the dance of Shiva into, uh, just all everything and you don't have to do it religiously. You can just do it poetically. So those guys know who Shiva is, right? And these guys are like this, he is out here trying to replace Jehovah and you're like, you do not know anything about Shiva. Do you sir? Mm hmm.

And Jim keeps saying that God. Yeah. So that's, that's that God over there. Yeah. So Chris Putnam. I said rest in peace during the, uh, when he was introduced, uh, or he's just never going to show up on Jim Baker show. No, he tragically passed, uh, I think it was only like 51 died surprisingly, I was trying

to figure that out. I, what I could glean, I, I would guess it was a heart attack or something like that. But he died last year, um, and you know, I don't, I don't take any, any enjoyment in that that's very sad. Yeah. I, at the same time, I also don't think it's that tragic. Hey, he had a family. So, uh, he has not spoken yet, um, and he jumps in here to explain that, uh, science proves

God. And just to put it really simply, uh, what Einstein discovered and what they're discovering, the smaller they get is that human consciousness, the observer affects reality. So some of these things, it looks like a wave. Okay. Sometimes it looks like a bullet, like a particle. Now it's actually both until somebody looks at it. When you look at it, it actually determines what state it's at, which is really odd given,

you know, an atheistic world. That wouldn't make any sense. Why would your mind have any effect of a reality? So they're actually proving our worldview through their atheistic mindset, whether they realize it or not, because they're proving that human consciousness or our, our soul, our essence actually affects physical reality in a way that we really don't understand at all. Nope. Not how that works at all.

No, but what they're, what they're proving is that light affects light. Not that the human mind. It's not that we, it's not that when we observe it, we force the wave function to collapse. It's that in order to observe it, we have to shine light on it, which then forces the wave function to collapse. It's not like our eyes are doing it. No, it's our eyes. Okay.

Now, admittedly, I don't know a whole lot about quantum physics. That's not an area of study that I am very, I'm not even really conversant in it necessarily. I've watched some YouTube videos. Also, also. Much like Chris probably has. Also, that wasn't Einstein. That he sees. No.

Einstein wasn't the guy who figured out that light is both a particle and a wave. No. No, there's a little bit after him, as I understand. But you know, what are you going to do? What are you going to do? This is one of those things that like, I think that, you know, uncertainty rules in, you know, like the Schrodinger's cat kind of thing. Well, that's what he's referencing.

Right. Right. But ideas like that really bring up this, it's the form of science that's most easily abused by people who have an agenda. Especially since the people who do know about it also agree, nobody really knows that much about it. And they're not going to engage, like they're not going to be like, they're not going to go on Jim Baker's show and thoroughly explain it.

No. They're not going to come on this show and fully explain it. Hell no. So generally, most people don't get, without studying it, don't really understand it. Yeah. I don't think these guys have. Because if you are talking to a quantum physicist, you're eventually going to get to the point where they say, all of this, we can measure and I can tell you that this is true.

But the stuff that we can't measure is so great that I can't tell you that anything is true. Right, right. Because we're trying, man. That's why we got all this, we built the biggest fucking thing ever. Just to be like, shut the fuck up, you asshole. We're not looking for God. We're not trying to open a portal.

No. But where would it even go? So far, a lot of this has just been still a little bit of laying the groundwork. This is going to spin off the rails pretty hard. And I believe that it starts in the next clip. I feel like misrepresenting the two slits experiment has already made me angry at how far off the rails this has gone. Very basically off the rails.

Already off the rails. I have one piece of evidence that it is damning that Jim Baker doesn't have and that his guests don't like, hold on. Okay. Like it would be, it's the sort of thing that I legitimately believe is disqualifying for the idea that someone has ever read the Bible or has ever studied, never even read the Bible or has ever even studied the idea of Christianity, any of those things. I think if you don't know this one piece of information, I think this is one of those

times where I wish I got to, sorry, sorry, sorry, I had to, I had to cut in real quick. This is one of the times where I feel so miserable that I couldn't, that I didn't know what we were going to talk about because the way my brain works is like all of this information is spinning around in my head, but now I'm trying to improv it and pull it from all kinds of different directions. So I'm going to sound like an idiot. I should have texted you and then like brush up on, remember, remember, remember physics and CERN and all of that shit and I'm like, hey, you're doing good.

But everything goes off the rails, I believe, starting in this next clip. That's what they're trying to do, verify a parallel reality. Now if I remember correctly back when I was a boy, no, back in the Bible days when they were building a tower called Babel or Babel, Babel, Babelin, a tower to go into heaven. Is that right? Now if my mind serves me correctly, they, they were looking for more of a doorway to heaven. A stairway.

Now let's face it, you're not going to build a stairway or a tower and walk up and go into heaven. You can't climb that high. So I don't think they were trying to build just a tower that would get up and say, hi God. Good morning. Hey God. Good morning.

What time is it? What time zone does God live in, dad? So that's a, is he Greenwich Mean Time? Must be. Yeah. All the upper crust. Yeah. Subscribe to Greenwich Mean.

Yeah. Um, look, dude, fair enough, fair play to you, Jim Baker. I suppose. Yes. You can't climb high enough. I, I'm glad he does know that. That's good. That suggests a basic understanding of science.

Well, that is in sharp contrast with his co-host, Zach, who comes in with this. Now the crazy thing is this. Could they have possibly gotten to heaven in the Tower of Babel? Would they have if God wouldn't have destroyed them? And I would say with an emphatic answer, an emphatic. I expected him to say no. Unfortunately, he says, wait, what? Yes.

Yes, they would have. And we can learn this from Genesis chapter 11, and it says this. It says, and then they said, come, let us build ourselves a city with a tower that reaches to the heaven so that we may make a name for ourselves, otherwise we'll be scattered over the whole face of the earth. But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower that people were building. First of all, I love the idea of like God coming down just to see it. Like, what the fuck are these assholes doing?

Well, actually, his real problem was he was hanging his toes off the edge of heaven for a while, and they almost brushed up on that tower, and he's like, no, I got to stop this shit. They're fucking with my fishing. Strongly disagree. I think what happened is that one of God's buddies came over and he's like, they're fucking talk. Sheva.

Sheva comes over and he's like, they're taking their fucking calling you out. Your name. They're talking shit about you. You're going to stand for that. So God comes down, checks out the city. He's like, what the fuck is this? It's bullshit. Sons of bitches.

Who planned this? It's right next to a grocery store. Come on, man. Right next to the only way into heaven. We're zoning laws. And the Lord said this, are you ready for this? If as one people speaking the same language they've begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them.

The very thing that God of the universe, he said that nothing they do would be impossible for them. That indicates that the very thing that they had set out to do, what have been achieved. So boy, these guys don't understand metaphor well. That's going to be a really don't understand metaphor. That's going to be a running theme. So even biblical literalists are like, they weren't actually building the tower to heaven. Guys, you can't do that.

Well, it's not upstairs. Also fun little bit of trivia. The phrase tower of Babel does not exist in the Bible. Also it's not a real thing. It's merely what's known as an etiology, which is like a little story that's meant to explain something. Basically it's meant to explain why people have different languages and to teach children against the idea of a hubris against God.

That sort of thing. It is very similar to this other myth. There are tons of them. It's like a big one. It's in the public consciousness. Led Zeppelin referenced it one time. It's that guy. Diremaker?

Who went up like really close. The magic comfort ride. Yes. There you go. It was actually Zoso. Well, no, I mean, yeah, Stairway to Heaven is Icarus flying too close to the sun. That's the whole thing. There are even more literal analogues throughout history in different cultures.

There's a Sumerian myth about M. Merkar's ziggurat, a Mexican tale about the construction of the pyramid of Cholula. There's a bunch of different versions throughout Africa and even some in Tibet. The historians have tried to figure out exactly like, is it possible that there was a tower of Babel, that this is like something that actually comes down from history, and there was a ziggurat dedicated to Marduk in Babylon called... Marduk's a bad fella. It was called Etum Nananke.

But based on historical context, there's almost no chance this is what the story of the Bible is referring to. One of the chief problems being that the Tower of Babel was said to be built under Nimrod, which would have been around 2000 BC, and Etum Nananke is almost certainly from around 12th century BCE. It's impossible to tell for sure since Babylon was destroyed in 689 BC and Etum Nananke was destroyed along with it. Either way, that ziggurat that was built was about 300 feet tall, which isn't tiny, but

for comparison, that's less than half the height of the Chicago Board of Trade building, the 44th tallest building in Chicago. Do you know what's crazy about that building? It's about to be taken down by God. It got a little too close. Everyone there is speaking the same language. It's getting up real close. Nothing is impossible for these people who speak the same language.

We've got to tear it down. Tear down that wall, Mr. God. There's also a sort of theme in the story that they're missing and not even dealing with, and that is the idea that God is affirming that if people work together, they have boundless potential. Furthermore, it is suggesting that God is afraid of people. Or is vested in them not working together. Exactly.

In some ways, he's like, oh, no. Uh-uh, can't be having this. Yeah, so I mean, they keep coming back to this and trying to compare CERN to the Tower of Babel. Okay. And whatever. Why? Fine.

Sure. Whatever. Do what you do. It's only because that one theme of the story, the hubris against God, is what they're trying to create as all that's going on at CERN. So now. Yes. There's more to this story.

What's that? And that is... Wait, the Tower of Babel? The Tower of Babel for now. Okay. And now we're getting into the story of Tom Horn and Chris Putnam. That sounds like a classic myth. It is one of the great tales of history, one of the great love stories.

Not since Is Old and Tristan. And we had such a great romance. Star Cross lovers. I only know about that Is Old and Tristan because of, like, I worked at a movie theater when that movie came out. Uh-huh. It was a movie or whatever, I believe. And all I remember was all of the marketing materials were so petty about Romeo and Juliet.

They were all like, I remember it to this day. You think Romeo and Juliet was good? Yeah, yeah. You ain't seen shit. It was more like Romeo and Juliet ripped us off. All right. Wait. Wait.

So even the movie people are saying that Romeo and Juliet ripped Tristan and Is Old off? That was part of the marketing campaign of it. Right. Crazy. It's nuts. I like it. That was 20 years ago, probably me working at that movie theater, maybe a little less. I genuinely do not know why I know anything about Tristan and Is Old other than I was

in a, I was in literature for a while and somehow that just became a reference point. So Tom is going to tell a little bit of the story of the beginning of their conspiracy here and I'll fill in the blanks as best I can. Is there some kismet? Is this serendipity? No. They've been working together for quite a while. Was the movie serendipity based off of them?

I do think that he was who John Cusack was based off of, perhaps. And also I should say Tom Horn wrote Love in the Time of Colorado. There's a supernatural force going on and you all have been on amazing trips. You have gone back into the wilderness, you've gone into the deserts, you have gone to meet with the Indian leaders. You have gone to meet with leaders around the world, supernatural things taking place. And I was writing down when you were going to meet Dr. Mose, I believe his name, was that correct?

Yes. M-O-S-E? What was it? Medical doctor? No. Dr. Mose is the Navajo Nation's third generation medicine man and oral historian. And so, partly what happened, Jim, was we had gone up to Mount Graham, you know, the whole exovaticana the last time we were on your show talking about that.

And when we came down from Mount Graham, we thought we had all of the answers in the world. The Catholics are part of an observatory, one of the biggest in the world, one of the lenses is called Lucifer. Right. Well, there's... I remember that. Yeah, but it's one of the pieces of technology inside the large binocular telescope is called the Lucifer.

So... Well, that makes everything clear, Dan. This is a big conspiracy of... it had begun and propagated by Tom Horne and Chris Putnam. Just these two guys are the ones who originated this bullshit or popularized it. You could say that there were other players involved too, but they're major figures. The Vatican having a Lucifer telescope, which... and they're not going to get into this now because in 2015 it's embarrassing. But a lot of the conspiracy around it was that the Vatican is in touch with aliens.

And they're using this Lucifer telescope in order to track Nabooru or Planet X, which was supposed to come back around in 2012 at the end of the Mayan calendar, all this stuff. That stuff didn't happen, of course, or did it. And so you leave that piece off of it. And that's why I believe Tom Horne is like, wow, it's a piece of the technology, the Lucifer thing. Sure. So...

You got to toss it. Anytime somebody is like, let's throw in something that some asshole thinks it... People do need to get better at naming shit. No. Because I get why you would name it Lucifer, but if you name it Lucifer... No, you don't. You have no idea why. What?

I'll tell you why. It was called that. We'll get into it. We'll get into it. Okay. All right. So here's the thing. They went to Mt. Graham, which is a mountain.

And there... Yeah. Named after Graham. Sure. It's an opportune place to put telescopes. Yeah. So there are multiple observatories, multiple unrelated entities on Mt. Graham that have telescopes.

So the Vatican maintains an observatory there that includes the Alice P. Lennon Gregorian telescope. Yeah. And the Thomas J. Bannon Astrophysics Facility. I believe it's called the Memorial Thomas J. Bannon. No. No. Where said telescope is housed, the Alice telescope is inside the Thomas Astrophysics

Facility. Cool. This is commonly referred to as the VAT complex, the ATT. Cool. Also on Mt. Graham, but unconnected to that is the Mt. Graham International Observatory, which contains the large binocular telescope. Out of the technology at MGIO is an infrared spectroscopy imagery module known as the Large Binocular Telescope Near Infrared Spectrasonic Utility with Camera and Integral Field Unit

for Extragalactic Research. Initially, the acronym for this was Lucifer, but since Christian Weirdo's kept being weird about it, they changed it to Lucifer. Gotcha. Because you take out some of the, I mean, there's no way that's going to make a word. No. So you drop a couple of the words off the acronym, you end up with Lucifer. If you're some sort of not Vatican connected astrologist, you're like, whoa, look at that.

It kind of makes Lucifer. Yeah, there you go. Let's do it. Yep. In the same way that that blue horse outside the Denver Airport, that giant blue horse. Oh, but all those conspiracies are true. No, they're not. They called that Lucifer.

Yeah, that's what they wanted it to be. Because it has the red eyes, but when you look into it, it has to do with the artist's history and the artist's life and his dad owning a neon shop when he was a kid, so he decorated it with some neon eyes as an homage to his father, all this shit. Anyway, the reality of things is often less interesting than assuming that the Pope has sanctioned a telescope called Lucifer in the middle of Mount Graham, where they... Yeah, to monitor Planet X. Yeah, and they communicate with aliens.

Yeah. Who doesn't? In the world we inhabit, seems like a lot of people are communicating with aliens these days. Seems like we're the only ones who aren't. We're the only ones. Why don't we have our own telescope? We really should get one.

It's like a small one, though, like within our budget. They're not cheap. Put it on Mount Dan? Sure. Yeah. Let's find Mount Dan. Yeah. There is a Danville in almost every state.

I bet there's a little tiny hill in Danville. We'll call it Mount Dan. This'll be good. Knowledge Fight Memorial Mount Dan telescope. So we're going to get into the Native American stuff a little bit later. He's going to bring that back up. I was going to say, why did he toss in some Native American medicine, man, if we're all about God and Jehovah?

We'll discuss that in a more full way before I get into the more of the stuff here about this Lucifer telescope in Mount Graham. Most of his ideas about this connection with UFOs and stuff is based on an interview with a guy named Guy Consol Magno, who is attaché, he was the past president of the IAU Commission on Planets and Moons. Cool. Nice. So he had an interview with him and a little bit later, after Tom Horn started putting

out a bunch of information about interviews with this Consol Magno guy, Consol Magno, Guy Consol Magno came out with this statement, quote, about a year ago an author whom I will not name or link to conducted an extensive interview with me by email. I thought he was a legitimate journalist, however, seeing the ways in which he has twisted, misquoted, and invented utter falsehoods from the things I said, I have come to suspect he is either a nave or a fool. There are no Vatican secrets about UFOs. Neither I nor anyone I know has any evidence that extraterrestrials exist.

We do not believe that Jesus is a hybrid or any of the other bizarre claims this author makes. He is either seriously deluded or a deliberate con man. Let me rephrase this as strongly as I can. I do not know of any credible evidence at all that there has ever been contact of any form between extraterrestrial aliens and Earth, period. I cannot imagine a circumstance where such contact could be kept secret for very long. And I say this, not only as an active astronomer for 40 years, but also as someone who knows

a lot of people in the SETI community who would love to have such evidence, and as someone who's been an officer of the American Astronomical Society and the International Astronomical Union. If there's something like this going on, we'd all be talking about it, there isn't, and we aren't. Yeah, they would pretty much be talking about it nonstop. It might be the only thing anyone would ever talk about. Right.

It would take a while for the novelty to wear off and people to be like, ah, what are we talking about? Aliens again? Fuck off. Yeah, so he has completely misrepresented the interview that he had with him in order to bolster all this stuff, which I bring up partially because it's related, but also mostly because it is the sort of behavior that these people do. They take people entirely out of context or just make stuff up and hope you can just roll

the bones and no one will notice. Hope they never find out and hope no one looks into it. Also there aren't a lot of good opportunities to use the word nave properly. That's a fun word to toss around and that is the most accurate word that guy could have used. It's almost like he chooses his words very carefully and decides to use them when they are appropriate. Also, it's fun because when they talk about going to Mount Graham, I believe there'll

be some of this in the episode as we go along, but they sort of portray it as like they broke in or like it was some sort of a false flag operation or it was some sort of a like a ballsy investigative project veritas infiltration. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, they sort of try and present it as like a dramatic detective sort of thing, but they you can take a tour like it's open to the public like it's not none of the if you called and you presented yourself as a journalist, you could probably interview anybody there. If you get a tour, if you call and presented yourself as just you, you could probably get

a tour. Oh, you know, if you paid like I think it's 40 bucks, you can get a tour. Anybody should get a tour. We're not close. Oh, okay. But the yeah, the idea is they're trying to create this sort of mythos around what they did like going to Mount Graham was dangerous for them and they solved a mystery. Right.

And then they come down and talk to the Native Americans, which again, we'll talk about here in a second. Okay. And all of it is horseshit. Yeah. Like all of it is just classic. They're just, they're just tourists lying. Yeah.

They, they are, they're selling you on a slide show that you wouldn't otherwise like, like you're not going to watch their slide show. Like we've all been on vacation, dude, but they have to sell it as a, it's an investigation and we figured it all out because of, you know, that's the equivalent of your friend like punching himself in the face and taking a picture while he's on vacation. Oh yeah. Here's a picture of after I got mugged, right, right, right, right, right, right. It didn't happen on your trip, but the rest of the trip wasn't a good story.

It was a good time. Yeah. How good of a story is they let us in and we're very gracious and talk to us. You got to have punch up on everything, Dan. Reality is kind of boring. So I told you that we're going to get to the Native Americans and it turns out we get to them much sooner than I expected. Are we, are we're still just letting go all of the shit that they've said so far as not

being that far off the rails, right? Oh, no, just because this is going to get further off the rails. 100%. 100%. I don't understand how that's possible. It goes off the rails in multiple directions. We've, we've gone off. We've already got the Tower of Babel is about them actually being capable of getting all

the way up to God. Right. They're the large Hadron Collider is about finding and creating, creating an alternate portal. There's, we're, we're, we're so far, so good, what, what, what, what, what are we doing here? What are we doing here? So as I, the best I can tell you is that as this goes along, it's not like the train goes off the rails.

It's like little cars break off of the train and go off the rails in different directions. Okay. And you're sort of still tracking those trains as the, it's some of them explode and it's a whole thing. Sure. Um, here is where we get into the sort of the beginnings of what he wants to talk about about Native Americans. We think, okay, we, we've solved the mystery, right of what's going on in Mount Ram.

He's talking about after he got a tour. Yeah. And then we get contacted by the Apache, by a member of the Apache nation who wants us to know that he heard us on the radio. He saw us on TV and we have missed probably the biggest piece of the puzzle. And we're like, well, what is that? And he says the reason that the Apache joined the environmentalists to sue the Vatican and to sue NASA and to try to keep them from getting up on the top of that mountain is because

Mount Graham is one of the four holiest mountains in the world for all American indigenous tribes, not just the Apache. And it is, Jim, because it is a portal. It is a doorway. It is a gateway. It is a strategic location on earth where since the beginning of time, entities have come in and out of this reality. Well, when he told me that, we went and vetted the story to make sure that was true.

What? It is. And then, boy, the conspiracy lights went off in our head about now why? I would like more information on this vetting process. How do you vet this is a portal that many people have, many entities have entered in and out of over human history? The only response I have to that question is I looked into it and I'm very sad to report that Tom Horne has not been on Project Camelot.

That belongs on Project Camelot. I don't know. I was just thinking about this. What happens when you combine people who believe in God with people who are willing to lie about science and then just throw God in there is Project Camelot. But I think even beneath the surface a little bit, Kerry is probably a little religious. Oh, yeah. No, there is.

I think Swerry Kerry leans a little religious. Scientists are generally speaking, not always, but usually responsible people. And so they don't say things like, we're trying to, we're finding a portal. And there's a fucking portal up here that's why we built this observatory. And then the Apache are the protectors of the portal. Scientists, also, there's a certain bit of like old school, like 1940s, adventurism built into that. Right.

That's what I was talking about. We, we, we talked to the, we got into this observatory. Well, not just that, but like there's a, there's a Native American who is our, our fetishization of, yeah, he's our, our Sherpa, our men take us through. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's the whole thing.

Now, I have that backwards. That's what Haji would call Dr. Quest. I apologize. I was backwards, but the same relationship. Haji was a, an Indian. I understand that. Okay. The same sort of relationship.

No, agreed. Yeah. Yeah. You're absolutely right there. It's a boys adventure. I, look, I want to say that I understand, I agree a hundred percent. Yeah. The reason I can't respond to that clip really is because I don't know his vetting process

and I can't vet that information. I'm pretty sure he threw a rock through the portal. I can't vet that information about the portal, but you know what I can do. What? I can vet other things he says and I can use that as context clues about whether or not I should trust him. This next clip I vetted. And you lived in Arizona, by the way, you know why they call the, the Phoenix Metro

metropolitan area, the valley of the sun? It's because when the giants came down through wiping out the Indians and they ran and hid in the caves, they cried out to the sun god, the great god, and he said a flood that came across the earth and wiped out all of the giants. And that's why the metropolitan area is called the valley of the sun because God wiped out the giants there. That's an interesting theory. So headline on that day, giants killed by flood.

How big were the giants? Huge. Were they the New York giants or the San Francisco giants? There were the Nephilim giants. Nephilim giants. Yeah, yeah. So the, so the Native Americans also believed in the Nephilim or perhaps the Nephilim just tossed in.

You know, bitch, you don't have to believe in the Nephilim, the existence of it. There we go. All right, all right. You know, you're right. You're right. How dare you? And of course this, as we all should have known, because it's a very well known concept that everyone within a certain community knows the valley of the sun is named such because

giants got flooded. Giants were fucking all over the place that the neighborhood was lousy with giants. You couldn't step anywhere without getting stepped on. So they prayed in caves and the God of the sun brought a flood and they killed off all the giants. I'm serious. They didn't kill them in the caves. It seems like a trap during a flood.

This is a selective flood furthermore. Is this guy's, does this guy think that cause he'd sign, it kind of sounds like he believes that that did happen. Oh, he definitely believed. Well, I think it's that thin line for con men. It's like, you never really, you know, like a good poker player, you're not really sure if they're bluffing or not. Right.

Good con men or people who've been doing it for long enough. You kind of don't know if they really believe it or if it's just a bluff, but he's very much suggesting within his twisted worldview, right, that this is so named because of a literal event that happened. It's interesting because here, which suggests that there is a God of the sun who is not the Jehovah. No. Oh, that's interesting too.

So who's, who's Jehovah? Where's Jehovah? In this whole situation, there's only one God. Why did they get the flood? If there's, okay. Cause they just think of Jehovah as the sun God. There is. One God.

Many names. He is the, he is the God of the sun and I'm telling you something ain't no son like the son of God. You know what I'm saying? Unfortunately, I'm going to read to you from an article in Arizona central AZ central.com quote. It's critical for cities to be properly marketed to create a sense of place for residents and alluring vacation destination for tourists boosters touted Phoenix boosters touted Phoenix

as being the quote Denver of the Southwest in the 1890s, a slogan that seems a tad unimaginative. In the 1920s, they tried quote where summer, where summer winters and quote the golden spot of America, but both were duds in 1935. The Valley of the sun slogan was coined by a local advertising agency for the Phoenix Chamber of Commerce. The group felt the slogan had a quote direct reader appeal that cannot help but attract interest according to a 1935 Arizona Republic article. Valley of the sun is a tourism nickname cooked up by the Phoenix metro area in the 1930s

because it sounded better than the accurate name, the Salt River Valley. The reason for the name is that the metropolitan area may well be one of the sunniest places in the country, receiving an average of 295 days of sunlight a year as opposed to the national average of 205. This does not come from Native American legend, it comes from 1930s Arizona tourism boards. I am a big fan of when you could find this by looking into it at all, googling it. Tom Horn, you could congratulations on your studying. I'm a big fan of any time that kind of claim comes out on our show and then you just immediately

point to and this was marketing and you're like, Oh, God, yeah, great. So this is an ad agency, but it also speaks to how good that ad agency was really good. They tricked Tom Horn in the present 70 years later. That also is not that hard to do, I feel like. No, probably not. So you just got to tell Tom Horn something he wants to hear and he will be tricked. So like I'm saying, there are claims you can vet and there's claims that you can't. The fact that I prove or disprove that the giants were flooded though.

Well, see, I can't, but I don't care because I can prove that he doesn't know that that was a tourist slogan right from the night from 1935, that an ad agency came up with not something that is really indicative of Navajo legends. Parallel thinking, Dan, parallel thinking, the Navajo came up with it first and then hundreds of years later, the marketing guy, he just got influenced by the Sun God. I would recommend everybody to read as many articles as I have read today about why is Phoenix called the Valley of the Sun and all of them will point you in the exact same direction has nothing to do.

The Sun God flooded him with ideas and that's what happened. That's why it's called the Valley of the Sun. So in that clip before this where Tom was talking hot bullshit, he was saying that he talked to a Navajo man, perhaps the medicine man, Dr. Maze, not Maze. I thought he was Apache. No, he's very fast and loose about these things. Got you. Oh, he's not very respectful about the first stations.

No, he's not. And he's especially not because he refers to people as Anasazi as we discussed. Why does that only come up on Jim Baker's show, by the way? Weird. Weird that that specific racism. Such a very specific racism. Maybe it's not even racism, but ethnic insensitivity. Ignorance.

Yeah. Willful ignorance. Seems very consistent. And I actually kind of know why. It's because this Tom Horne and Steve Quayle are good friends. They're... Oh, okay. Got you.

And know each other and do each other's radio shows all the time. Got you. So the idea that both of them will spout nonsense about Anasazi people. Makes perfect sense. Yeah, absolutely. Got you. So here is Moore from this Navajo gentleman that Tom Horne talked to. And boy, I'll tell you what, I have a very simple explanation for this.

Okay. At first, he's just going down the storyline, right? He's telling what they hear in their schools. He's saying, well, a drought came along and so the ancient Anasazi, they migrated away out of the area. They eventually become the Hopi. And I stop him in the film and I say, but I've heard there's a lot of evidence that contradicts that.

For instance, they left everything behind, all their salt, all their tools. Everything was still inside the cave. Salt's hard to carry. They disappeared overnight. They didn't migrate away slowly. And he looks into the camera and he says, well, I should not tell you this, but... And then he starts saying, if you would have asked my great grandfather, here's the story that he would have told.

And he describes a portal opening in the Four Corners area. And that same reptilian that had caused such havoc with the Apache comes through over there. And they draw pictures, petroglyphs. Some of these are a thousand years before Jesus Christ walked on the earth and they show a portal, the spiral vortex, the portal is opening. Right next to it is this giant reptilian with the halo around his head that comes through. And what does he do? He starts teaching the Anasazi.

This according to the Navajo historian, he starts teaching the Anasazi dark magic, black magic. And they go down into their kivas, into their underground places. It should be holy places. And they start farmakia, the New Testament would call it. They start using sorcery and drugs. And they get in contact with these things and they bring them through the portals. And now all of a sudden there's giants in the Anasazi area and they're cannibalizing.

So that's a lot. So I can actually explain that in one sentence that I should probably say before you go off on... Go for it. The reason that this Navajo guy's grandfather would say this about the people who he's referring to as Anasazi, is because if we recall what we talked about on that Steve Quayle episode, Anasazi means literally a Navajo language, ancient enemies. So the idea that a Navajo guy had some sort of cultural tradition about demonizing Anasazi

folk who we should call Puebloan ancestors. That to me is just sort of an artful, hateful, ideology about why do we not like these Pueblans? Why do we call them ancestral enemies? Because they steal our jobs. Well, no, not just that. It's because when that portal opened and demon reptilian beings came through, they were susceptible to the black magic. And that's why even though we probably should all just get along and live out our common

purposes and goods in life, no, they are the other. They're the other and we don't trust them. What he is doing is he's being fucking incredibly stupid, Tom Horn. He's not taking cultural context into it at all. If I heard, if like, you understand what I'm saying, I do. What I don't understand is why is everyone listening and nodding? You mean the people at Morning View? Yeah, it's weird.

Why are they doing that? Doesn't this fly in the face of all of their beliefs? Like if they if that's true, no, no, no, if they're because they're they're nodding is though this was a thing that he's because he's emphasizing that this is what the Navajo historian says to him as a true thing. He's also insisting that portals are real. Oh, they're real. So he's now suggesting that a thousand years before Jesus Christ, there were Navajo sorcerer

or not Navajo Anasazi sorcerers who had the capability to open portals, bring giants and reptilian guys with halos. And everybody who's Christian is just like, whoa, I can't believe that happened. Well, that's a thing. I think a piece of it is they believe that giants are in the Bible. And so the bringing in the giants are like, oh, these are just sort of extra demonic beings or whatever. Right.

And the portal stuff, I believe that Tom believes. I'm not sure he spells this out fully. Portals are sort of blasé. They're just sort of like, whatever, God can make them portals or whatever. Man, I feel like portals should be a bigger deal than that. And so angels in Tom's, he does bring this up a couple of times. Angel just means messenger, so it doesn't have to be a race of beings or something like that.

Right. It could be all sorts of different messenger. Right. It's a job, not a type of thing. And that really changes that Danny Glover movie a lot. And that Christopher Lloyd movie. Oh yeah. Let me tell you something, Dan, you got an angel with you right now.

It was a remake though, it was a remake, to be fair, might be the best moment of this podcast ever. Messengers in the outfield were not so nearly as well. Yeah. And I mean, you know, giants in the outfield would still be great. You got him a Lily Mays. Oh good. They got about 180 of those movies a year.

Yeah. Right? Something like that. Best ball season. Guys, how do we move forward from that? I don't know. I don't know. Once you get a good angels in the outfield bit going, it's hard to, it's hard to escape.

So but I would say that he thinks that all that fits into his warped version of what the Christianity says and like what the Bible actually says, which it doesn't. But it really sounds like they're all looking at this and learning history. Like that's the way that they're, like that's the way that Jim Baker and all these people are presenting it as they're like, whoa, look at this bit of human history that's 100% real that I didn't know. That co-host Zach was saying they literally could make a tower to heaven. Yeah.

I don't know what is going on here. You've pointed this out earlier. I worry that none of these people have ever actually read the Bible. I worry that they've read these Nouveau translations of the Bible, like the message version of the Bible and stuff like that. I don't know that one. That's one of those. I don't know.

It probably may be after even both of our times when we were in the church, but it's a translation that tries to put the Bible into modern terms and stuff like that. So it loses a lot of the essence of the King James version or even the NIV version. And Jesus walked up and he was like, you guys aren't cool selling this shit in the church. And then Jesus pulled him out and he put his sunglasses on. And even those versions, like the sort of classically accepted versions, they even have their problems. Oh yeah.

Study classical languages at all. One of the things you start to have to look at is that like in ancient Greek, like for instance, they didn't really usually ever write vowels and stuff like that. Yeah. And they didn't put spaces between words. So a lot of that makes things very difficult. There are ways you can, you know, you suss it all out and figure it out. So like there is a construction that you can make of texts and stuff like that, but it's

imprecise sometimes. And that's Greek, a language we fucking understand almost fully. So when you take these biblical texts that are from like Koine Greek, and you have that level of detachment from it, and that much, like the other thing, like so in college I translated the Iliad in one of my classes, one semester was dedicated just to translating the Iliad. And one of the things that always is struck in my head, like it's something that I think about very regularly.

There are multiple words in the Iliad that don't exist anywhere else ever in writing. Like there's one that is the only one I can remember is polyphloisbos. There's a word that only exists one time in the Iliad and never again in Greek. In no other Greek writing, it means many flowing. It's a word that's used to describe almost the sound of the water lapping up against boats and stuff like that. It's a descriptor epithet of a river. The polyphloisbos.

That is always struck in my mind because when you have these ancient languages and there are examples of like these words that only exist once, there's the impreciseness of translation. And then on top of that, if you've ever looked into the Dead Sea Scrolls, you would know that most of that is fragments. You know, like so... Well, isn't the Iliad fragments too? Somewhat. Yeah.

But a lot of that... Or at least people consider it to be part of a far larger series of stuff. But anyway, I'm sorry for interrupting. But it was part of oral tradition. Whatever it originally was when it was eventually reached down. In terms of the Dead Sea Scrolls, they found all those scrolls at Qumran and they tried to put them together as best as they could. But even if you look at any scholarly text about the Dead Sea Scrolls, you're going to

have caveats like, a lot of this is missing. And that's the case for a lot of fucking books. There's a lot of books in the Bible that have had to be reconstructed and have been over time. Right. So to me, when you have that much and you understand that much, you kind of have to accept fallibility in the text. And then beyond that, you have to really avoid hip, cool translations because they're going

to lead you into like a stupid world where you're like reading this and God says, hey, bro, what's up? There's something like that. Right. And it's that sort of parallel, like, hey, God says, what's going on? You know, you're going to lose pretty much everything. Yeah. You'll get the spirit, I guess, maybe the intent of the text, but you're not going to get any

of it. Well, I mean, in my world, just because I want to make this very clear, the message version of the Bible, the message translation, the last Jim Baker episode we did was about Paula White Kane. Uh-huh. That's her favorite translation. She makes that very clear. Right.

And that's one of the reasons why that is something that comes up in my mind when we're talking about what do these people, have they ever read the Bible? Right. And yeah, they probably have, but they've read a version that's almost like a Harry Potter novel. Right. Something like that. It's written to be read by people who like novels.

It stars Poochie. More or less. Yeah. So what you're saying? Yeah. No, I mean, in, in, to that, to that, in, in like my world, just in a pure present tense, uh, reading, uh, a Rainier Maria Rilke, uh, a book of his poetry in German and then reading the translation in, and German and English are very, very close languages, but you will

never actually get like, there's such a massive difference between those two. And we all understand like people who speak German have studied German their entire lives and, and translators are trying their hardest to get the same kind of feel and flavor of that and put it into English and you simply cannot. No. So that's, that's just something that's happening today, let alone something where you only have 10 words that he used and you're have to try and extrapolate an entire language. Well, and you have to consider like, um, idioms, which people who are actual scholars do,

which is one of the easy ways, not easy ways, but it's one of the convenient ways you can date texts. Yeah. Like a lot of the times you can tell, oh, this comes from this period because that idiom was not, uh, in function at that time, but that makes it, that makes it incredibly difficult. Like word play exists in ancient languages, word play exists in German that can't be translated to English. Yeah.

Even in modern languages, you lose, um, a bit of, uh, a bit of the flair. Yeah. When you try and translate German into English, it's like, uh, trying to stuff a cat full of boots and drop it in the water. Exactly. You can translate that. You UK fucks. Um, so let's get back into this.

That's right. That was a, that was a long tangent. Yeah. Um, at this point we, uh, hear, uh, what I would describe as a return from Chris Putnam, who has been sort of playing second fiddle, uh, to, uh, Tom Horn throughout most of this, but he comes in hot. He comes in strong, uh, with a very stupid thing, uh, that he's going to say good to you.

So 20, 30 years ago, would you think there'd be a reality program on television about hunting for ghosts? Yes. I mean, today there's 30 or 40 of them competing with each other. That's right. Okay. Yeah. I think that's indicative of the age that we're in.

I mean, it's not just that belief in these things are increasing, that the phenomenon themselves are becoming, you know, more manifest. What? What? So it's, it's a sign of the times that there's a bunch of ghost hunting shows where they never find anything. Um, and most of them aren't about ghost hunting. There's like, there's the one show that's like, Hey, it's really more about the fact

that these are a bunch of college students who are doing this and they aren't they cool and young and fun and they think they're the ghostbusters. And then there's that one where it's a frat guy who's yelling at ghosts to hit him and stuff like that. Yeah. It's really more about that. And then there's fear on MTV that was really just about the fact that the camera was on the person's face and everyone cries all the time.

Never saw that one. Oh man. That was it. Fear was the best. Fear was the best. So they would go to, it was just fear porn. They would go to abandoned hospitals and stuff like that or like a prison, places that are allegedly haunted.

Yes. And they'd be left there. And the only video and that would be a frame, the only video, it's like a team of four or five people. Yeah. And the only video on the show is from surveillance cameras that MTV has set up around the place. Okay. And then a video camera that's hooked to a rig.

So it's like pointing at their face at all right, right, right. And they have to go through the night. They have to spend the night at this place and throughout it, they get challenges where generally to be like two challenges. So they have a home base. God, MTV was great. They have a home base that's safe and there's lights and stuff like that. All right.

And they get to stay. I love the show. They stay in there initially and then they get these missions. So it would be like two of them have to go to like the J-Wing of the prison. And then it turns out one of the cells, someone hung themselves in that cell. So one of the people will have to stay in that cell for like 30 minutes and try and contact that spirit. They'll have to do something very specific.

And then the other person will have to go away and do something else. So they all end up getting left alone and everybody just ends up freaking out. See now I want to combine that with like the real world versus road rules challenge. Oh, so you get CT crying in a cell? You get them and it's like, you got to go into the cell where somebody hung themselves, but you got to do like 30 pull-ups in there. So that would be great stuff. You got to drink a bunch and yell about women.

Yeah, that'd be the great, that'd be a great way to go. I would like that combination. They did do a celebrity version of fear. Of course they did. That one was awesome. Everybody wants to watch celebrities be afraid. Gary Busey was on it and he was, as I recall, as I recall the only person who wasn't scared. Gary Busey has no fear.

I celebrate you spirits. Gary Busey was in point break, Dan. He's never been afraid of anything. It's true. Um, so don't hurt to my point about this is more that I don't think these ghost hunting shows are a sign of the times. I think they're a fad that happened because people realized like, oh, there's a lot of different ways we could turn this genre into a different show.

Yeah, like a reality show. Right. But it's an interesting context in the same way that like, you know, there's a lot of different dating shows. Yeah. Generally, it's not about the dating. It's about the twist that you put on the dating show. Right.

Like, are they dating naked? Like, is it a limit date? Is it next? Next was great. Well, next was all fake. There's at least shows like shipmates where they were dating on a boat. We don't, we don't talk about Chris Hardwick. Oh, yeah, I apologize.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sucks that he hosted shipmates. Ah, that motherfucker. Shipmates was so good. Who would have guessed? Damn it. Eh, we could have probably seen it coming. Um, so anyway, in this next clip, we get more project Camelot talk from Tom Horne.

Prophecy says that these doorways are going to open. I think some of them are, are associated with what the Islamic nation. You were just showing Joel Richardson's book. I think some of it's associated with them because the Euphrates River, right? Where they're functioning is right out of the book of Revelation where it says, guess what? The door is going to open. Angels are going to come up out of that river and they're going to wipe out a

third of humanity. So now the third of humanity goes back to our last apocalyptic bullshit. But like here, here, what we have is, uh, this is literally what, uh, swear, he carry Cassidy talks about how they, like all of these wars throughout history have been like the Iraq war, Vietnam. They weren't about actual geopolitical struggles. They were about closing stargates. Yep.

He doesn't use the term stargate. He talks like doorways, portals. It's the exact same thing. These people are saying they're pitching the same narrative to different audience. Yeah. It's fucking fascinating. It is.

It's also fascinating because, uh, at no point do any of these people realize that so many of these are like regional fears. Yeah. You know, like these guys have a reptilian with a halo over there. You got spider leadership over here. You got the, the, uh, rap toys or whatever the fuck it is. Like all of this shit is just regional fears that you can clearly take back to, Oh, this culture got fucked up by spiders for a while.

Like that was kind of the, that was the situation. Everybody had their own. Like we get fucked. We had a tarantula problem. Yeah. Yeah. Or, or the different, the commodo dragons might, uh, might be hard in, in some cultures, um, psyche, passed down psyche.

Yeah. Or just the difference between, uh, Japanese dragons and European dragons. Like just, just the silly little things. But then, yeah, but then again, some of it is also like, uh, just intrinsic. Like in terms of lizards being sort of seen as evil, it makes sense. They're so different from, uh, mammals. Yeah. You know, there is a very, like a very strong distrust of something that

doesn't have legs, like snakes rolling around. Also, what is it? What are they even fucking doing? Where do they, where are their legs? Also, they can kill you. Also, like not all of them, but some of them can kill you. Yeah. But all the ones that don't kill you also still bite and are hostile.

And they, they fucking look weird. And some of them can constrict you. Oh, that's a bummer. And generally speaking, like lizards aren't good eaten. So like there's no reason to really like them over history. Lizards and, and reptiles are the greatest possible, like you're bad. I'm going to go with bugs. I'm going to go with bugs.

I'd go with birds. Uh, birds. You don't like birds. Too loud. Mean also mean. Yeah. What's a bird ever done for you? Huh?

Oh, what's a bird ever done for you? I like chicken, but, uh, not much else. So I would love to, I would love myths to be based off of so many of the things that you find, uh, like, is it good? What's, what's the, what's the myth? Uh, these birds are evil. Fucking loud as shit. Do you think a lot of myths are based on less?

No. Um, so, dude, what do you know about orbs? I know anytime somebody asks me that question, uh, the answer is not what I'm going to say. Do you know about the phenomenon in the paranormal conspiracy community of people taking pictures and they're being orbs in it? I know about the song by the AAS named phenomenon. It's not that.

Okay. Um, you don't know about this at all, which, uh, so, so orbs, you go to haunted places orbs, you take pictures and just or, and then you get the pictures back and there's orbs in the picture. And generally speaking, most people can always be like, Oh, well, this is failure of the camera or more often it's, uh, like it's the flash reflecting on a piece of dirt in the air or something like that. Yeah.

Something along those lines. I'll tell you what, Chris Putnam, not a big fan of the, the reasonable explanations for orbs, but he is a big fan of fucking orbs. What's going on there? Sedona is famous for being a portal area. In fact, there's actually one area called the Bradshaw Ranch. Famous for, by the way, you guys have already struck out a couple of times on Arizona.

I wouldn't just stop talking about Arizona. Go back to the well. Also, why don't you go to Skinwalker Ranch, punk? You too scared? What? You got to go to Bradshaw Ranch. Weak. Name after a famous stuntman, Bradshaw.

I was in a lot of the old Westerns. Oh, sure. He's also made of orbs. He's built a tour of that, but mysteriously, the government bought all that land and fenced it off. Supposedly it is National Parkland, but now you can't even enter it. Okay. And it's, it's famous in the UFO community as an area where you can see UFOs.

It's famous in the ghost hunting paranormal community is a place where you see orbs. Now, everyone has seen something unidentified in the sky. So UFO, I don't have much problem believing that people see things. They can't identify. What? Orbs. I always thought that those were probably just camera anomalies. They are, you know, dust particles and things like that, that just kind of, you

know, just some sort of anomaly with the camera reflection inside the camera. Stop right there. You nailed it. So I took a professional photographer with me and we set up two cameras from different angles and we actually did get orbs on film with two cameras at the same time. So it's not dust particles, not something on the camera lens. What? That doesn't actually prove anything.

No. Because if they're shooting in the same direction and there's something that might reflect or refract light from their flash and they're shooting from two angles, it would do the exact same thing on both cameras. Also, so, so he, before this, before he took a professional photographer out with two cameras. Oh, and they're always using flash. I should be clear because it's at night.

Well, yeah. So it's not the only way you can find orbs. It's not like I'm assuming that they're using flash. Orbs don't come out at night. Orbs only come out at night. They only come out at night. Uh, so, so that means orbs are main eaters. So he knew.

So here's, here's my, my issue with this. He knew about orbs as a thing. Yeah. And he always thought that they were something wrong with the camera. Yep. Which means that he knew that there were a lot of pictures of orbs. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And he, and he's, he's presenting it as like, I thought it was bullshit before, which is

what all con men do. So if I understand correctly, the way that he debunks this or the way that he set out to debunk it, two cameras, uh, was to use two cameras. So there were hundreds of cameras, no one had ever thought to do that upon thousands of cameras in the past that have found these orbs. And he was like, ah, but fake, but if I use two cameras, well, then I know they're, I know how to do a double blind study. There you go.

Two cameras solved it. Light is both a particle and a wave, Dan, right orbs. So that's just to illustrate, like this guy's not, he's just very gullible and, and just not gullible. He just wants to push something on gullible people. When are they going to sell stuff? Cause they, I've got to be around the corner. I should, I should come clean a little bit because there's so much here.

Um, I cut out a lot of the ads. Okay. Mostly because it's all just that water bottle, man. Yeah. He's pushing that water bottle hard. And it's all these packages of the water bottle and Tom's book. But okay. I was going to say Tom Horn and a Putnam, aren't they going to eventually

get to the part where we, we all get to see like all your own. I cut out some of the, we're selling your book stuff because to me, honestly, like that is in the realm of respectable behavior. It's assumed. Yeah. The idea that these guys are coming on his show and plugging the book, that doesn't seem like gross salesmanship to me. Right.

Like even people who come on like Sam Cedar show who have a book, yeah, you give a little plug to the book. Hey, you go on a, you go on a late night and you, you sell your fucking movie. That's fine. The way they're packaging it with the water bottles is a little weird, but because we've danced all over that water bottle for the last two Jim Baker episodes. A lot of water ball dance. I felt like it was like, there's so much meat here.

Let's not jump into that. Although I will say we learned that the water bottle, he's been burying the lead on this. Yeah. It's not just for drinking river water. Oh, it also apparently alkalizes your water. I did not know that he's not brought that up. I've always needed my water alkalized.

It brings the pH up. Sure. Which I should say, be careful with that. Like I understand the idea that people think acid, bad, base, good, or something like that, but if you do too much trying to bring up. Either direction. Yeah. Yeah.

It's very, it's very dangerous. Yeah, not good. Now that's not to say drinking alkalized water is not like that alone is dangerous, but you go too far with it. It can really fucking hurt you. You know, it's crazy. Those water bottles turn the frogs game. That's what they do.

That's what they've done a long time. Yeah. Long time. So, um, long silent and giggling co-host Lori Baker now comes in with a story. She doesn't just giggle. She also says, Oh, wow. Wow. So she comes in with a story and this, this is kind of fun, uh, cause it

gives us a little bit of flavor of what Lori is like, but then it gives us a bigger picture into what Jim is like as a husband. Oh, I'm not going to like that based on his reaction at the end of this story. Oh, he's going to hit somebody. I actually live in that area down at the bottom of that mountain near Stafford, Arizona for a time. I actually lived in the four corner area for a time. Another one of the portal areas.

I have spent like a second home Sedona and Oak Creek Canyon. So I'm like, wow, this is blowing my mind thinking that these are these portals. And I have had so many incredible supernatural experiences with the Lord, with the Holy spirit. If I told you them, some of you would probably turn the TV off and go, there's no way, but I'm telling you, you should probably turn the TV off after saying that. But I've also seen the demonic side of the supernatural. So I know, I know that the supernatural world is more real than us really

sitting here. I don't know how to explain that in words, but as real as you're here right here, honey, and I'm touching you, the supernatural world. I mean, we have angels surrounding us all around us. And it's exciting. We're in the final stage of the last days. I believe we're, I really. What the hell, man?

Your wife, your wife just told a story about seeing demons and angels. Right. And then you give a pause where everyone's just like, and then you launch off on your new thought that you want to be like, well, it's the end times. Yeah, that's the verbal equivalent of being like, slap. I'm not interested in your story, Lori. Where there's angels all around us right now. All right, we're in the final stages of the end times, everybody.

To ignore that bullshit. The problem that I have is that like her story isn't out of line with the stuff they talk about. No, it's right on. It's not like that story is in any way like, why did she say that? It's very much like, oh yeah, that's part of the whole thing. She sees angels. She sees demons.

They're all around us right now. They're more real than you and me. This is something that everybody has literally said in this fucking show. Yeah. And Baker is just like, fuck off. I don't want to engage. I've heard it before, Lori. We're not changing the channel.

Why did I marry you? There is a there's a sense that maybe this is a little bit one-sided. You know what I'm saying? Oh, it's absolutely. She calls him honey and what have you. And he's just he's a fucking psychopath though. Like, of course he doesn't care about her. Man, wait till we get to the end of this.

You'll see some real disconnect in his brain. Okay. Like he's he psychopath is not accurate maybe, but definitely he doesn't have feelings. Okay. But before we get to that, Tom Horn comes in and he says something. He talks for about 30 seconds and it teaches me that he knows he's super into a couple things. I don't think he should be. Well, and the watchers who fell down, Peter and Jude both described them as being contained

under the surface of the earth. Again, we're talking about the earth is much more dynamic than people understand, much more connected to prophecy. And they are under the surface of the earth waiting for the day of judgment. Now, there is an extra biblical book. It's actually in some Orthodox versions of the Bible. It's called the book of Enoch. Stop right there.

Certainly was read by the disciples as quoted by the disciples actually in the New Testament. Stop it. It's only in two Coptic Orthodox churches canons. But so the first thing is hollow earth. He's very clearly talking about hollow earth. That's where the demons are. And then also the book of Enoch.

He's into those two things. And I don't think that's great. I'll be honest with you. I don't think it's that great. I think like what's not great about it. Well, one, hollow earth is it's fun to think about. But if you believe it, you're you're out there. Hey, come on, man.

You're not a serious. You're not a serious. I do a bit. You're not a serious thinker. Sixth president of the United States. Huge hollow earth guy. Right. But when was that?

A couple years ago. Yeah. What is it that much different from what our president believes? Not like everybody's crazy. No, these people are fucking stupid. This is dumb. This is shock it. That's what I'm what I'm hearing from this is if you are listening to this and you're like,

I want to buy this guy's water bottle. You're fucking dumb. This is dumb. Or or you're suggestible. There's there's I don't know. There's other ways to get there other than dumb. I think I think I don't know. You could be born.

This takes a lot of dumb. You could be born into some negative circumstances. Maybe you live in a small town. There's no way out and you just sort of accept that sort of thing. I don't know. I don't think necessarily dumb comes into it. I feel like dumb is so judgmental. Yeah, I agree.

That's why I'm using that word. They're victims. That just because you're dumb doesn't mean you can't be a victim. And just because you're a victim doesn't mean you're dumb. No, but I also don't want to. I don't want to or doesn't mean you're not dumb. I don't want to impugn the people who are caught up in the hustle. I do.

We are talking about the hustler. Right. Right. I understand that. That's a wish better for them. Yeah. No, that's true. It's but at the same time, God damn it, that's dumb.

It is not least of which because and this is again something that we've talked about. I want to be taken in. If I'm going to be taken in by a con man, I want to be taken in by a top level con men. These guys are taken in the dumb. But also they're just taking advantage of other people's circumstances that they don't have any control over. But because of those circumstances,

it's possible that he is a good con man for them. You know what I'm saying? Like some of the things that he's hitting on might trigger things in other people that it doesn't trigger in us. True. So, you know, all I'm trying to say and I don't want this to be some sort of weird everything is relative kind of argument. Right.

Some things are fairly relative. Yeah. And a good con man to you is not the same thing as a good con man to someone in, I don't know, Avaaz, Missouri. You know, like a tiny town in Missouri. You know, who knows? I say Avaaz because I used to go there when I was a kid. Right.

There was a lot of portal activity there. So much. So much portal activity. So we get back to the book of Enoch part. I don't think I made it clear necessarily why it's bad to be like super into the book of Enoch. I'll get to it a little bit after this clip. He then though goes on to say this. Enoch says when it's going to happen,

he says it's going to happen 70 generations after the flood. So if you know when the flood occurred and what is the generation? Well, the generation based on songs 9010 is 70 years. So you would literally say if I could go, if I knew when the flood happened, I could go 70 generations of 70 years, which is 4900 years. Right. Good call. Well, the most the most recent statistics.

In fact, there's scientific groups are working on this. They're called the Holocene impact group because they think a meteor hit the earth. And that's what caused the flood because they have evidence of a great flood. They date this to 4800 to 4900. They date this to 2800 to 2900 BC. What am I saying all these numbers for? Bottom line is if that is when the flood happened, you count 4900 years later. It brings you to 2015, 2016, 2017.

It brings you to right now when Enoch says those gates are going to open and the giants are going to come out. Now, I thought they were already out. Wow, you're going so fast. Our heads are spinning. So that's all right. Whatever. I don't think the Holocene impact group is a reputable group of scientists.

Oh, you don't think so. So I've been able to glean. So if we say that 2800 BC was when the flood happened, if we stipulate that in the argument, just say whatever, this doesn't this is tough to work out with the book of Enoch. Because Enoch was Noah's great grandfather, according to the Bible. Yeah. And so you use the 70 year generations. If 2800 BCE was when the flood happened,

three generations or four generations back would be around 3000 BC, was when Enoch would have been around? Yeah. But the problem is the book of Enoch's oldest parts were written in 300 BC. Right. And then the most recent parts of them are dated to about 100 BC. Right. So when the flood happened?

No, I don't think that anyone makes the argument that Enoch wrote the book of Enoch. Right. It was in the Enoch. Well, that would be gauche. But it's in the Enochian tradition. You don't write, you don't name the book you write after yourself. That would be that would be very, that would be narcissistic. Very idealistically, the rest of the Bible.

Yeah, like I'm not going to write a book called Jordan. Why not? Because I would wait until somebody else wrote a book about me called Jordan. Come on. Hey, these sorts of ideas of modesty are modern. I don't want to write a book, Dan. I want to live a life people want to write books about. Sure.

And that's fine. Thanks. Thank you. But I also think I think it's Jim Baker. I think it's fine for the Enoch thing because it's like, well, yes, if Enoch had written the book of Enoch, then that would be a severe, severe problem that the timeline of when he would have been alive is impossible for when the book was written. The other problem is that he's only really referenced in a couple books in the Bible.

Only a couple times. Right. There's maybe like three or four references to Enoch. One being that he was along with. He's one of two people who ever didn't die. Like God brought him up to heaven. Yeah. Elijah is the other one.

Two people who have never died are Elijah and Enoch. That's, I believe that's in Genesis. There's a reference to him in Jude, but he's... Hey, Jude. Hey. Hey, Jordan. There's no reference to him in parts of the Noah story, the story of the flood, the deluge. There's no...

It seems like he would talk about his great grandpa at least once or twice. His great grandfather predicted the flood happening. It would seem incredibly relevant, but those stories of Noah and the flood were written before the book of Enoch. Right. So that's why those aren't in that book. Well, they were also written before the book that told about the flood. Like the flood myth has been around for...

Yeah. Well, we can leave that aside. Anyways, yeah, let's move past that. I'm saying that this piece of the mythology would have been present in so many other places. Yeah. If it were some part that wasn't pseudopigrapha, something that was added through a pseudonym much later. Yeah.

The Enoch book is interesting. I like it. I think there's a lot of really interesting content. Yeah. Yeah. But... My favorite part was when Hermione cast the spell in Enoch and turned him into a frog for a while, right?

Sure. Is that it? Something, something, Snape. There's... That is the best name to a sequel I've ever read. Yeah. Something, something Snape and the... Something, something Snape and the...

I'm liking that. Yada, yada, yada, and the golden Snape or whatever. Yeah. Fucking come on. Quit it yourself. Hey, get out of there. There's a reason that it's not included in the canon of the Bible. And that's something weird for me to say as someone who really doesn't give a shit and

thinks there's weird stuff in the Bible. There's plenty of reason just based on like biblical scholarship. Yeah. Look at the times that it was written, fact that it was written over the course of like 200 years difference between the like the oldest parts and the newest parts, fact that it comes from traditions that are outside of what's deemed mainstream Christianity. I get it. And the fact that he is bringing this in as like a, like a strong primary source

means to me that he doesn't care about like actual biblical scholarship. Yeah. He cares about like, oh, this is fun. This sort of weaves into my already existing belief. But that's the way that they treat science as well. That's the way that they treat everything. I'm trying to create that web. No, I'm trying.

No, you're helping. Fucking, I'm trying to, god damn it. You're helping. You're somehow you're frustrated with running a two man game, Dan. I'm not frustrated by it. It's just, I don't know. There's parts of me that think like, maybe I should make this less obvious what I'm saying. Yeah.

And then you come in and you're like, it's the exact same thing that they do with everything. I'm trying to, my job is to make it as, as obvious as possible. Yeah. That's a fair point. That's what I do. Jesus, I just, I just hate, I hate so much how these assholes spend all of their time demonizing scientists who are running CERN, right, trying to figure out how fucking matter works. And then the moment they're like, oh, and as far as giants and portals go,

there's a group of scientists who look, you don't, you can't trust all the other scientists, but these guys confirm what you already know using science. So now whenever somebody disagrees with you with their science, guess what you have? Your own science. Now the fake science that you have has no backing in it at all. There's no, uh, double blind studies. No, no, no. There's no fear reviewing.

There's two cameras though. But boy, we got them or we got two, we had two cameras about orbs. Yeah. When was the last time CERN talked about orbs? Yeah. Get them. Get them. I actually know a guy who worked at CERN.

Yeah. Yeah. Weird. I actually know a guy made of orbs. Interesting. Yeah. Is it, what was that game? Spectre?

No. What was it? There's a, there's a Genesis game where there's a guy made of balls. Who cares? Wait, a Genesis. Oh no, I actually know what, yeah, yeah, yeah. Now I know what you're talking about. I can't remember the name of it.

Ball man. Why not? Um, no, it was weird. This guy, when I used to run a comedy show, this guy used to come out to it every week. But he'd show up late and we had a dance party afterwards, like after the comedy show. He'd show up late and then he was kind of like, probably like a mid, late 50s year old guy, kept to himself. He'd show up for like the last 20 minutes of the show and then dance like crazy.

Love it. And so I was very confused by him and I couldn't figure out like what the fuck is going on with this guy. And so around that time, Mike Timlin, very funny comedian. Yes. Mike Timlin, uh, he became one of our interns at that point. I was like the first night I grabbed him. I was like, Timlin, your first job is to find out what that guy's deal is.

Right. Cause I want to ask him and I fucking can't. I can't emotionally do it and I just need to know why he's here. Cause I, he's not threatening. He wasn't dancing and grabbing on people. He wasn't a problem, but he confused the shit out of me. This is the first known abuse of an intern at no very first one. It worked first time an intern has ever been abused like this.

So at the end of the night, Timlin comes over to me and he's like, Dan, I talked to him and it turns out, uh, he works, uh, at the, uh, Hadron Collider, CERN. He's Swiss, uh, he's on vacation and he's doing, he's here for a season in Chicago. Uh, he's a long vacation and, uh, he loves yoga. So he's late because he goes to yoga class, but likes to dance and also likes the show. Wishes he could come on time, but yoga class is more important. There's a lot, there's a lot going on with that guy's life. But I was also like, Timlin, you are the best intern ever.

You got all of the information that you've ever wanted. So I started talking to him. He's a super nice guy. We never really clicked, but the headliner, you and Timlin or no, Timlin clicked great, but not the CERN guy, not the CERN guy. So the headliner on the, that show was, uh, or maybe I don't remember if it was that show or a couple of weeks later, uh, Sean Flannery, uh, headline, very, very comic here in Chicago. Fantastic. Amazing storyteller, just brilliant. Amazing. So he had lined the show and afterwards he and this guy who worked at CERN

ended up at the bar next to each other and became fast friends. And the guy who worked at CERN ended up doing the blackout diaries, Sean, others. That's awesome. Yeah. The two of them. That's crazy. The two of them kept in touch. That's amazing. Yeah. That's fantastic. Yeah. He was a super nice guy. So that's the only story I have with CERN. The only story I have that relates to that is, uh, there was a karaoke bar, uh, a Tiki themed

karaoke bar, uh, on, uh, on Belmont. No, no, no, no, it's off of Tiki themed. No, no, there, there's too many Tiki themed karaoke bars. Uh, I think it's on Lincoln. And there is this guy who comes dressed in scrubs, uh, which makes you think he comes directly from the hospital or whatever. Come on. Uh, all right. Let me get away with that. All right. But he fucking, he sings every third song. He goes hard. This dude, his entire life is wearing scrubs and singing these songs.

And I've always wanted to ask him whether or not he actually worked at a hospital. Or if it was a, if it was just sort of a, if it was just a, yeah, I've never, I never had the courage. He was tiny. That's why you need Timlin. He was like five foot four. If I had an intern, I would know everything about that guy. He was the best. Tiny little man. Best having Timlin to go ask people questions. I couldn't ask them.

We needed Timlin. Oh God. Oh Jesus. I should get back into stand up so I could get an intern for this show. Yes. Holy shit. Not going to do it. Bless you, by the way. You know, I can't do it. You know, I can't do it. No, I can't, I can't convince an intern to help us out. So this has been fun. This has been the Dan and Jordan talk about stuff not related.

Strictly speaking to the episode. Now let's jump back in. Okay. Jordan, I texted you and I told you before the show that I have a damning piece of information. An incredibly damning piece of information. That indicates to me that Jim Baker and Tom Horn have not in any way wrestled with what the Bible is. Right. What its cultural historical context is. It's a book.

They know that. It's from the past. So Tom Horn is on here and he's hocking his translation of the Seppu Gent. Seppu Gent. The, you know what that is? No. Jesus man, what the hell. So what it is, it's...

You mocked me for making, you condescended me for calling people dumb and now you're going to call me dumb like that. I'm not going to call you dumb. I just hope you notice. I didn't have to explain it ahead of time. All right. It's the earliest Greek translation of the Pentateuch or the Torah. Yeah, yeah, okay.

The first five books of the Old Testament and then it added in over time. It was something that was worked on for years and added in a bunch of profit books and what are called Deuteronomical books, sort of second... Those I got. So he's selling a translation into English of the Seppu Gent. I pronounce that terribly and I... Don't worry about it. It's weird.

There's too many vowels in places you don't expect it. It's fine. They say something here that is deeply, deeply flawed. So he wrote fanfiction. No. I believe that his translation is probably actually accurate from the Greek of that. I would believe that. I'm not sure.

I haven't read it. I haven't checked it. I'm going to go with fanfic. I'm going to say it's not a great translation, but I bet it's fine. Okay. But in this clip, Jim Baker says something in response to him talking about this Seppu Gent and then something weird happens. So this would be the Bible that the disciples would have been reading from.

And Jesus would have read the word, but he would have read from. Shut up. We're out of fun right now for Lori's house again. And we're just eking it out. We have like two weeks and we can open the house. I mean, two weeks. I mean, it's not going to be open, but we're going to have permit from the Fire Marshal Yes.

To go in. Right. In two weeks, Lori, if we can just finish a few more things, I got to get some water faucets on to as well. We need about two, really 200,000 to finish it all. It's so weird. It's so weird to have an entire episode where they discuss the reality of portals and reptiles with halos.

And then they're like, once the Fire Marshal gives us the permit, we're going to in. We just need faucets. Once we get faucets, $200,000 for faucets. And that ad pivot was hard. That was hard. So much that you missed the turn over you yelling. Yeah.

I think it'll still come up in the audio, but like he was like, he's talking about the Septuagint. Yeah. He's talking about this is what the disciples read. Yeah. And then Lori is like, isn't that amazing? Listen. Yeah.

Listen. I know. That's that's what I was saying. Well, because he was just telling her to shut the fuck up. Well, because his old ass mind is so like, oh, I've got on the thought that I need to sell. Yeah. Shut up woman. Yeah.

Well, you need to sell. I need to make that house that's named after you. It's crazy. So the ad pivot aside and we'll get to in the next clip, we'll get into like this being incredibly fucked up. Right. This is the Bible. This is where we're talking about the Bible that Jesus would have read.

So Jim and Tom are both suggesting that the Septuagint is the is like some sort of different scripture or pure scripture. And they're saying that it's the one that the apostles read. It's the pre Bible Bible. This is a deeply flawed idea. The biggest problem is that most of, if not all of Jesus's disciples were illiterate. Professor of theology at the University of London, Catherine Hezler estimates the literacy rate at the time and area when the apostles were alive would have been approximately 3%

almost entirely made up of what you'd call the cultural elite, the priests and academics of the day of which the disciples were definitely not specifically and purposefully not. You had Andrew, Peter, James and John who are all fishermen who would 100% not know how to read. They were a fisher of men. Well, that's why that metaphor is used because most of his disciples were fucking fishermen because in Galilee that a very vibrant fishing economy. It's crazy. There were some indications that Judas was previously a thief, which doesn't require education.

Matthew was a tax collector, but that position was actually what it entailed in its proper historical context is less someone who audits spreadsheets or does accounting, is more someone who literally takes coins from people and delivers them to someone else, more of a courier or even just someone who sits at a booth when people come and bring them money as he's described to be in Matthew 9. Simon is described as a zealot, which likely means that he was a political agitator against the Roman government, which is more of a rabble rousing kind of thing compared to political activists that we're used to today, most of whom know how to read.

Back then it was more just like a fuck me. Hey, fuck you. I'm going to throw a rock. Ah, sell it. The rest of them were likely fishermen, but it's unspecific for a bunch of the dudes in Jesus's posse. The assumption is fairly safe, though, as the Bible describes Thomas and Bartholomew being caught off guard fishing at some point.

And like I said, Galilee was a major fishing port back then. It was a big piece of the economy. And the idea that like one of the most famous scriptures and the famous sayings of Jesus is I will make you fishers of a man doesn't really make sense unless you're talking to a bunch of fish guys. Yeah. And that is the profession for most of his. They would not have known how to read.

They knew how to tie knots, though, Dan, and that's all you needed. So the idea that Jim Baker is selling this and Tom Horn is selling this septuagint as being what the apostles would have read is fucking horse shit. They don't know how to read. They didn't know how to write. And a lot of people might be saying, well, how did they write the books that are ascribed to them? They didn't. Well, except if you take that to its next logical conclusion, they didn't write those books,

except for and it wasn't and not any of the synoptic gospels. But Paul was almost certain. Yeah, I believe I believe Saul or Paul. Paul was almost literally based on but some of the letters that are ascribed to Paul, definitely he didn't write right even along the lines of like all of the everything in the Bible wasn't written by the person that they say it was almost across the board. Fantastically. Jesus, most people believe to be either a rabbi or the like a, you know, a misrepresentation

of a carpenter. He was most likely able to read. Well, it's possible. There's actually two there's two main culprits, I believe, in terms of like historical Jesus. I don't I haven't looked into this in a long time. This is based on drunk conversations with I had I had with like professors who my friends my dad's friends with. Yeah.

So like from my understanding, what most biblical scholars believe is that there are conflations of who Jesus was. Yeah. And that the Jesus who got crucified is not the same Jesus who said all the sayings that are really popular. Right. The Jesus who said all the sayings was a rabbi around that time. Yeah.

It's mentioned in like Josephus who was absolutely literate because of the priest class. Yeah, of course. Now the Jesus who got crucified around that time was a criminal named Jesus. And throughout time, those two personas have been blended into one. Now, I don't know if that's totally true. That's just something that I that's something that it was passed on to me by professors. Could be wrong. They also weren't saying that's 100 percent the truth.

It's just what indications are because most people's historical record around then of that would match what's said in the Bible is thin. Yeah, it's not. There isn't a ton that matches up. So you have to sort of make peace me a lot of it in the same way that if you're reading the Dead Sea Scrolls, you got to fill in gaps. Yeah. And scholars know how to do that much better than dumbass Tim Horn.

And if you're if you're writing a book about a guy several hundred years after he was already dead, you just start picking and choosing what you want. Yeah. Well, I mean, Tom Horn does. Yeah. So now important, more importantly, I think, I mean, the biggest thing I want to say is that the fact that fucking none of these dudes are being like the Apostles couldn't read, you know, like that's just the truth of you would never you would never accept that.

So many modern Christians today would never ever accept that the Apostles weren't anything other than the exemplary human beings of the day. Yeah. Yeah, because we because we believe that literacy is the norm. How could they write those letters, Dan, if they didn't know how to read? Huh? What are the what? What is it? Just a bunch of X's.

Everybody knows all those read all the all the epistles were written by all the Apostles at the time that they make sense. No, no, no, no. Epistle, Apostle, call it a day. No, no, you say epistle. I say Apostle. Call the whole thing off the the thing, the thing of like actual writership and stuff like that is all sort of none of them.

None of them wrote any of that juggling balls. Yeah. But like I said, while you were on that riff, you know, like the Apostle riff. That one. Okay. We assume that literacy is so common now that it must have always been. Right. And it's not.

And also it's not now everywhere. But the Septuagint is nothing special. He's selling it as if it's like a pure version of Scripture. It's the original Bible. It's what the Apostles would have read. It's the hipster's Bible. They say that over and over and over again. It is nothing special at all.

All it is is a name given to the translation of the Pentateuch or the Torah, which later grew to include many of the rest of what would be the Old Testament, like Joshua, judges, Ruth and the like. It also contained books that we later sent to the pseudopigrapha like Tobit and first through fourth Maccabees. The Septuagint is nothing special really. It's just a collection and translation of already existing religious texts and writings that was the result of a project started in approximately 300 BCE.

This concluded around 132 BCE. The name is derived from a story of how it came into being. Allegedly Ptolemy of Egypt requested 72 rabbis translate their texts for him into Greek from the original Hebrew so he could have a copy in the Library of Alexandria. Magically because God, each of these 72, working independently created identical copies of the translation. This story is generally thought by scholars to be bullshit. It traces back to the letter of Aristaeus, which due to dating of styles and textural clues

almost certainly could not have been written by the person the claims to be written by. Princeton Theological Seminary Professor Bruce Metzger described the letter with us, quote, Most scholars who have analyzed the letter have concluded that the author cannot have been the man he represented himself to be, but was a Jew who wrote a fictitious account in order to enhance the importance of the Hebrew scriptures by suggesting that a pagan king had recognized their significance and therefore arranged for their translation into Greek. So most view the letter of Aristaeus, which has the kernel, the beginning of the story of the

Septuagint, as being one of the early examples of religious propaganda. Yeah. So that's fun too. Hey guys. All this is fun. You're con men. They are conning based on the cons from way back when. But the cons back then make more sense, I think a little bit.

Really? You don't think so? What? Con's a con, man. Yeah. What do you mean they make more sense? I don't know. Con's a con.

They're clearly much more successful. It's much more, it's interesting though. They're harder to see through. Uh, I mean, I think that's distance, right? Like, isn't it easier to see through Scientology than it is to see through Christianity? Yeah. It's just because it's old. It requires scholars and people who understand context telling you as opposed to, yeah.

Whereas with Scientology, you're just like, well, that's fucking stupid. What are you talking about? Aliens drove B-20, B-52 bombers? You're fucking stupid. Yeah. Or how easy it is to see through Jim Baker as opposed to some religious figure even in Christianity from the 1700s or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, Jordan. It is, it's just interesting. It really is to know that this con has been going on for thousands of years. It's the same fucking con. Well, different people have different angles on it back then and also now. Right. You know, there's, there's various cons being played sort of. It's a con that's evolved, but ultimately what it is, is it's a short circuit of the human brain.

Right. There is something that the human brain simply cannot get past and that's why this con works. Yeah. So you, you see so many people getting conned in the same way and you can take comfort in the fact that people like this have been getting conned since the birth of humanity. And the con always ends up being about money. It always. Or it could also be about sex.

That's also true. A lot of cons are about banging. There's some money in that too, I think somehow. But, some cachet, if you will. Maybe, I don't know. Look, putting that aside, at the end of the last clip, before we got off on that, Jim doesn't understand that the apostles were illiterate and what the Septuagint is really. He said that they need $200,000 more dollars to open Laurie's house.

Gotta put those sinks in. He made that harsh ad pen. Fire Marshal won't even give them the go ahead without those $200,000 sinks. And now that makes it that much weirder that he says this. He gets, he starts preaching towards the end of this, this stretch. This is really fucked up. Can, can you do that? You just talked about aliens, portals, demon reptiles.

And then you're going to try and preach. Now, but, but it's more like all that stuff put aside. It's more important that very recently, a couple minutes earlier on the show, he was asking for $200,000 to finish Laurie's house. Okay, here we go. The sun and the moon is going to be dark. We are here now, folks. And you must get this book too.

You must get the path of the immortals. This is for any inquiring mind, anybody who really wants to dig in. And this is Bible backing up. You say, I don't believe all that stuff. Well, find out, read the Bible, find it, see if it's in the Bible, the portals. You know, we got to start, start stopping. We got to stop letting people in the pulpit tell us what is right and what is wrong. And what is God and what is not God without checking it to make sure.

Because we have a whole generation that loves money more than anything else. Literally, we have in the church in the last several decades, we have become lovers of money. And the Bible says that neighbors, the root of all evil is the love. And so we have changed the word of God. Do we have another gospel today? And the real gospel, nobody really wants it because it says, come and die. That's a, that's a rough start right there. That is the most, that is, if you are not going to say this as soon as I am,

that is the most Alex Jonesian thing that he could ever have done. It is. Immediately. That wasn't what I was going to say. Immediately. First thing he says, right, you can't trust anybody unless you go verify it in the Bible. Now, of course I'm telling you it, so you don't need to go check it. I've already, multiple times on this episode said things that are ludicrous biblically.

And in, and because I said them, and then because I told you to go check whether or not I said them, you can trust that I am confident that you will go check what I say. So you don't even need to go check what I say because we both know that you already checked what I say, even though you didn't need to. That's the, maybe second thing I would point out about that clip. Then we get to the money part. That's crazy. The money part is a Alex Jones to the fucking tea.

Jim, you went to fucking prison for scamming people for money. All people want these days is money. We got a generation of people who love money. The whole generation, these millennials with their money grubbing. All they want is money. I mean, most of them haven't gone to prison for fronting people. But if they want the money, I just have to live in their world. And I know how to live in their world because the Bible told me to take their money.

And you don't even need to check on that because you can read it. That's in the Bible. He's also saying that like in the church for the last couple of decades. The church. There's been like people who are into money. He's like, hey, Jim Austin, Jim, a couple of decades ago, you went to prison for that. Don't bring up yourself into this.

That's crazy. Also, what about all the prosperity gospel people that you have on your show as guests who talk about seeds? Like Paula White Kane was very clearly doing prosperity gospel shit on his show as every guest of his does. I know you are. But what am I, Dan? Man, it's crazy.

I know you are. But what am I? It's crazy to me. Like, what are you saying? All right. Now, in that regard, based on what you just said, please accept me when I say, if you buy that shit, you're dumb. Yeah, it's pretty dumb.

Yeah, that's dumb. Well, but if you can, if you hear that and you're like, way, if you're not like, if you don't have that, you don't even have a second of like, maybe this guy, you know what? I still believe this guy fucking clearly loves money. He kind of loves money. Yeah. Did he just say he needed 200 grand for faucets?

And then bitched about how everybody else was all about money? It's weird. Weird. Gets even weirder in this next clip. The very, the very, the four horsemen of the apocalypse really. Scrambling. That the last one is there's going to be death by the disease from the animals. What is HIV AIDS?

Where does it come from? What? From the animals. All these diseases. Coming from the animals. What? I thought elephants were going to kill people or lions are. Why?

But it was one word, one word was wrong. And we have a lot of doctrine built on one word. I don't understand what that means, but it's not that important. We'll talk. It's so weird, but we'll talk about it. I just want to know why you thought alien. Why did he pick elephants? Why were elephants going to kill people?

I can tell you that what he said before that clip started doesn't explain it. I have no idea. Elephants? Why elephants? Hold on. We have people that trying to say it above all God wants you to be rich. Yeah, I know I bore you with that thought, but it's not in the Bible. It is not in the Bible.

It is not in the Bible. Above all, God does not want you to be rich. Right. Holy shit. Right. What the fuck is happening? See, this is the other car that's gone off the rails now. It is easier for a rich man to get through the eye of a needle than it is for him to get

into heaven, Dan. 02:03:07,520 --> 02:03:08,720 That's just fact. That is just fact. The Bible says that. And that is why I need $200,000 for these fucking sinks. Do you understand that what he's doing is he's basically refuting a lot of the ideas that he generally proposes, the idea that like, it's a seed, you're planting, you give me money,

it's coming back, that sort of thing. He does that a bit, as do most of his guests. He's refuting that and saying, God doesn't want you to be rich. You should give all the money here. It's going to be better that way. It makes me feel like he's in trouble in May 2015. You think so? Like maybe he doesn't need that $20,000 for the sinks.

Maybe he owes back taxes or something like that. Yeah, that's entirely possible. This is about after he filed. Yeah, he's not a 401C now, is he? He's not a, he's not a church. He's still got to pay taxes. There's no way he gets tax exempt status. Man, it would be wild if he went to prison for fraud.

You don't then just get to jump back into tax exempt status. And his church is very political. Profit based. And profit based. But it's the same thing with that Courtney Brown, with the Farside Institute. Yeah, that's true. The two organizations, one, two, three, one. Well, one's called the Farside Institute.

Come on, Dan. Right. I love it. The thing is crazy. I love that we've added Jim Baker because Jim Baker is the per, so the way I saw- This is low stakes. The way, so no, no, the way that I see the, the, we previously did Alex and Kerry, right? Right.

And to me, Alex is, Alex is so money motivated that it's kind of boring at a certain extent. Kerry is- And Kerry, Kerry is money motivated, but she also has a little bit more of that love of the game to her. Oh, much more. She likes being- 02:04:53,040 --> 02:04:56,000 She likes being, she likes being wild for being wild sakes. Right, right, right.

Jim Baker is the perfect mix of the two. That is the most hungry- No. Money-grubbing man. And at the same time, he's like, fuck yeah, let's talk about reptoids. Disagree. Well, yeah, I agree with that part in terms of the mix of the two. Yeah.

But the thing is, so one time, I don't know, this is just a thought that came to me. So I don't like a lot of Wes Anderson movies, generally speaking. I think a lot of them are too twee, too cute. All of these are fair criticisms. I don't like the idea that in a lot of them, children act like adults. I think that's stupid. That's a salinger thing. Whatever.

Be that as it may, one time I was talking to my brother about it, and he said that one of the things that he really appreciates when you look at the bigger body of Wes Anderson's work is that most of the movies, you could take them and they embody the spirit of being a certain age. So you take, like, take- Interesting argument. Any interesting arguments. Give me the movie.

I'll tell you the age you're at. Let's go. Well, let's start at the beginning. Bottle rocket. Bottle rocket is when you're in your, like, aimless 20s. When you're like, I should have amounted to something and I didn't. And you sort of struggling through, like, oh, maybe I'll become a bank robber. Is that sort of thing where it's maybe possible that that's the life for you and you

entertained stupid possibilities and that spirit is captured in bottle rocket. All right. Moonrise Kingdom. Moonrise Kingdom is when you are, like, 12 and you fall in love with somebody and it seems so epic when it's really not. They play out the theme of it being, like, this profound, beautiful thing that you have to fight for when in reality it's not. It's the idea of your first love is embodied in Moonrise Kingdom.

Okay. Magnificent, Mr. Fox. That's real early childhood. Okay. That's sort of like a... That one I kind of don't buy. That one's a different story. I haven't seen that one.

You didn't. And also, and also this theory was, this theory was pitched to me before that came out. Okay. All right. So I assume you have a prepared answer for... Not that this is prepared. You have a prepared answer for the Royal Tenenbombs and, yeah, yeah. Royal Tenenbombs is when you are watching your, your parents get old and you are now,

your whole life has become like the disillusionment of the past generation. And then the, the, the life aquatic is when you come to the end of your career and you realize you're no longer useful in the way that you used to be. That sort of struggle. So each of his movies have like this profound, not right of passage necessarily, but this pivot point in people's lives, these really profound moments. And that allowed me to appreciate some of the movies more. In a way that you didn't previously.

Yeah. And I appreciate it. Because just in the watching of the movie, you're kind of like, this is twee bullshit. Yeah. And that's not like I hated them, but I didn't like them that much. And I appreciated that theory very much. And the only reason I bring this up and this has been fucking long winded as hell is that I think what we have is different periods in a propagandist's career depicted

by these three. You just tied that all together fantastically. We have Kerry who's, I mean, in age, they're all probably around the same. Yeah, pretty much. Because Alex is not. Well, Alex is, Alex is younger than Jim Baker. And yeah, he is. Jim Baker is like a hundred.

How old is Jim Baker? He's Methuselah. He's a million years old. Right. That guy's going to be conning long after we're dead. Right. Alex is presumably 45 or something like that. But whatever.

Kerry is, Kerry's in her fifties probably in Jim Baker's 70. Age aside, you have Kerry still hungry. She's still out there and searching for the truth. All money motivated. So that part is sort of, you take that as red. Hey, it's the capitalist system. You have Kerry and she's crazy and still like I will talk to, like I texted you earlier. I listened to an episode today where she was interviewing a guy who was a dishwasher

about how he created a warp drive. Why would you do that unless you're fucking hungry and you're hoping that he's not lying? You're going for the, you're going for it. Yeah. That's a big swing. You're going to miss most of the time, but a couple of times it's going to be a home run. Oh yeah. Yeah.

Absolutely. She's willing to. She's the Adam Dunn of Conspiracy. She's willing to take those cuts. Yeah. Then you got Alex Jones, who is just like, I'm in the middle of this. I've made some mistakes. I'm a shit head.

Whatever. I don't get, I don't care. I've fallen in with the wrong crowd. Yeah. I mean, I'm in the middle of this. I'll try and probably get redemption later. He's resigned. Yes.

Currently he's resigned. He's like, I am, this is my fate and I am resigned to it. And then Jim Baker is the guy who's waiting to die. He's over the hill. He's still just doing this because it's what he knows how to do. Right. And he's decently good at it to some extent. Well, if you go to prison for it and then you go back to doing it, that is what's called recidivism.

Yes. Yes. That is exactly what that's called. He kind of doesn't give a shit. This is the only thing I know. He's in his late career. He's the Steve Zizou of the cons. Not bad.

Way to bring it back. Yeah. So there is that. I appreciate that picture of these people that like different stages of the con, but not the con. No. The life of the con. The con is the same. It's just the growth chapters of the con.

I want, where's our, where's our, we need to find our marjo. We need to find our young con. We need to find our like 20 years old. There's millions of them. Well, yeah. I mean, we got the other assholes, but they're too angry now. Yeah, that's true. I want a con.

I want a young con who's, who's got, who's selling a message of hope. It's hard. It's hard to find that because all of the, the young cons now are all about and we're going to kill everybody and get them fired from Disney or whatever the f**k it is they do. Well, the, the, the twisting of the right wing has really hurt the con business. It has hurt the con business because it's become almost a magnet for those people because they realize how easy it is to get your s**t. Not hard.

You get your s**t reposted like crazy if you just say the right inflammatory things. Yeah. And so these people vary. Like if you are a con person, you're obviously more motivated by publicity or motivated by traction than you are from actually substance. Yeah. So our young conners are like the, the Fox news 21 year olds. But there was like, is it Laura Loomer or something like that?

Isn't she like what's her? What are the ones that are like, uh, Laura Loomer doesn't have a career. No, it's the, it's the, what's the one who f**king and never mind. I don't need to know their name. Tammy Loran, Tommy Loran. Yes. Yes. She's the young con.

She's not even a con person. She's just a talking head on TV. She couldn't do it her on her own. Oh yeah. No, that's true. So like, you could say like a Ben Shapiro or something like that. Yeah, but that guy sucks. Yeah.

He's s**tty at the con. Yeah. He doesn't, he's not, he's not playing the exact same game. No. And there's also other difficulties too that like. This is our spin off show. Dan and Jordan rate whether or not somebody could become a good con. Do they have the chops?

Yeah. Do they got the chops? Trying to think. I don't know, man. Like there's a looking at people who come up on info wars from time to time. I can't think of anybody who's got the goods. Like Owen Shroyer doesn't have. No.

But I'm also thinking about guests. If there's anybody who he's had on who's like, well, there's a spark or something here. There's nobody. Do you think it might be? The other problem too that I think is important is that if you're going to become a legit con person in the vein of the, the trio that we talk about, one of the most important pieces is that you need a backup support system. Yeah.

So for Kerry, it's people like Mark Richards. It's people like, uh, weirdo from England who, uh, bangs around with an alien. Yeah. She's on his wife. You need to cast a rebels. Simon parks. You need a oceans 11. Right.

Yeah. For Alex, it's Steve Pachennick. Now Roger Stone. Before that, Larry Nichols, uh, Gerald Salenti of these guys, Paul Craig Roberts for Jim Baker. It's all these weird prosperity gospel preachers that come in, uh, like the Tom Horns theory, theory, Steve, our, our generation of the con is crowdsourced. Our generation of the con, our greatest con men are like, go to our Patreon or like your, your four chance.

Like it's, it's a, it's a collective mind. It's a hive mind con. That's who's coming up. It's the 14 and 15 year olds. It's the 25 year olds or the 35 year olds. 35 year olds pretending they're 14 year olds. Exactly. Exactly.

Who are on 4chan who are just writing fanfic and then throwing it out into the world and they all amplify it together. I don't think we're going to have that same charismatic con. All of our charismatic leaders are going to be on the other side or, or that because of what I was talking about earlier with the magnetization of all this to the right. Because it's not happening towards the left. Right. You have people on the left who are conning, presumably ostensibly on the left.

People like the Louise Menches. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But that's so minor. That's not a, yeah. That's so minor to the larger conversation of like what the left is. I don't think that there is, I don't think there are valid media folks on the left who

are doing the con. Right. As it, as it were. Right. Right, right, right. I think there are fringe voices like her, but like. But if you're on the left and you're kind of fighting against the con. Like the con is ultimately a right wing grift.

The con is always a. I don't think it always has been. No, but it's all, the con is always, I'm going to convince you to act against your own interests by making you think that your interests are the interests of me. Sure. That's the con. But I. So like if you want to go with your, your like, uh, Alexandria, you know, she is not.

She could fucking con the shit out of people, but she's on the left. And so her idea is I'm going to take your interests and I'm going to make them my interests and thus we're all going to be moving forward. Maybe the reason that I have pause is that I don't think that that's always been the tableau where the left is. No, no, no, no, don't, don't disagree. I don't, don't. Yeah.

Yeah. Don't extrapolate that too far. I'm talking about now, but I think even as early as like five years ago, that might not have been the case. You know what I mean? You think so? Well, I think there's still media figures on the left who were trying to make a lot of like a fuck and a lot of them though, they, they're more entrenched in like magazine

journalism or something. Yeah. They don't have radio shows right in the same way as the guys on the right that we, but that's probably just because that's where they got a gig. As opposed to the right wing is so entrenched in the media sphere through the Koch brothers found funding and what have you. I don't know. It's, it's.

That's an interesting conversation for another day. Who could spend hours on what? Are we fantasy drafting con men? Is that what we're doing? I think a little bit. But we can't because you're, you're, you're right in a way that I wasn't expecting. Not like I think you're dumb or wrong, but like I do think that there's something to be said for that, um, the idea of the crowdsourcing the con, uh, in terms of these message boards

and shit. But here's what I think, um, in reality is there will rise some other con man on YouTube or in some form. I don't know. Could be, could make his own channel or something like that as a Dan prophecy is what this is. I'm not. I just expect is probably the most natural progression history rhymes. Well, but the thing is that you have examples of this that have hit the wall already.

People like a Mike Cernovich or something like that. But there will be someone who creates their own thing and it won't be the, the four chains, the red, it's all that stuff. All that crowdsourcing will be the con. But that will be unnamed the backdrop for the con. That'll be your, that'll be your, that'll be your, that'll be your, that'll be your pochetic. Exactly.

That'll be your stone. Exactly. Four chance. But the problem with that and the reason why I think that is a unsustainable economy is because what makes it work with pochetic and what makes it work with Roger Stone is that they will show their face and talk. Right. They will be on the show and say things that Alex can use as this is, this is evidence

of blank. Whereas if you have a message board that's this hive mind that again, you're right, is creating fanfic basically. Right. You can't really bring them on as guests unless you just make them all anonymous representatives. Right. And that doesn't carry the same weight.

But that's when we start getting into rhizome theory. Wherein. Is it? Yeah. I would, I would say so. We have arrived at rhizome theory. Everybody drink. We all knew we would eventually.

Fair enough. Fair enough. No, I am interested in what you're, that, that. You know, the most obvious thing that everybody could think now we're into rhizome theory. That joke on my part was 100%. We tried to bail myself out of being very confused about the connection you're making. No, no, no, what, what, what, uh, like, uh, I mean, the most popular version of rhizome theory, uh, is, uh, like ghost in the shell, like that kind of concept.

Out of the, out of the, uh, out of 4chan, out of this, uh, nebulous mass of hive mind will come a representative of that. Sure. Who will be the face of it. Well, we already have that with QAnon. Right. But, but there will be a person who is the embodiment of this QAnon who, it never mind. Well, that'll happen once we're able to really perfect this, uh, it's like

facial, uh, uh, uh, like reconstruction technology. Oh yeah, there might, there might actually be a fake version of that. It's like that Al Pacino movie. Like that Al Pacino movie. There we go. Sent of a woman. Now we, I was going to go with devil's ad picket, but all right. All right.

All right. Let's get back on. Yeah. Oh, that's right. That's right. We were, uh, hold on. Were we talking about CERN at some point? At some point.

Okay. We've mostly moved past CERN, but CERN will come back up. Okay. But before we get there, so like, uh, just to put a button on all that that we were talking about before we went off on that tangent. Yeah. Dude, Jim Baker, shut the fuck up. You are one of, you are the, the archetypal example of someone using religion to make

money. So you coming on and being like, there's a disease about loving money. You're still doing it. You are the archetypal example because of when you went to prison and now you're still doing it, baby. And that's why that one lady goes on and says, if it weren't for you, you were the trailblazer. If it weren't for you, you paved the way.

Amen. For the people who can scam like crazy. If it weren't for you, we wouldn't have to deal with fucking Joel Osteen. You fucking asshole. And now, so here's an interesting thing before we get back to this clip. I don't know why I need to extend this, but the, the con we're talking about. Yeah. I think Paula White Cole is doing a really, Paula White Kane is doing a great job with

the con in many ways in terms of her doing the prosperity gospel stuff. And she's worked herself into the president's ear or whatever. We're all going to die. But she's not doing the con right. Because before we did that episode, you had no idea who she was. Uh-uh. And I'm guessing most of our listeners had no idea who she was. Exactly what I was about.

When you brought her name up, I was like, she's, I didn't know who she was until you said it. So yeah, yeah. I think she's perfectly much into the influence side of the con and not so much into the PR side of it. The performative side. And that means that she's not in the con. Yeah.

She's a power player who is very, very clear. Like once she starts talking, you know the game. Right. But she's someone who's more interested in like beltway politics and trying to be. She's an influencer. She's like, uh, she's like the, she's like the Instagram con where it's like, if you follow her, she's got sponsored content that you don't know. Attempts embedded.

Exactly. Exactly. Content which is very clear to anyone who's not a fucking ding dong. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I think it's a different kind of con.

I don't think it's fair to put it in the same world as it's a, it's a internet con. It's an offshoot. Yeah. All right. So anyway, we're still doing the show, right? Yes. Okay. Um, one of the things that we always talk about is like trying to connect these

worlds to each other, which I think we've done a decent job in these derivations that we've gone off on, but I would just say that, uh, here's another one where Tom, uh, boy, this sounds like something that could just be said on Alex's show or Project Camelot, any of them really. But sometimes people become the portal and that was what happened with the watchers. They wanted a methodology. They wanted a way of leaving their fix to state. That's what Peter says.

That's what Jude says. Those angels, which kept not their fixed habitation, their, their, their estate, they wanted to enter into our reality. They had to come up with a way of doing that because they didn't want to just, they didn't want to be like demons. They didn't want to just possess somebody in whom the spirit of man still dwells. That would be boring. They wanted incarnation.

This was an affront to God. And they figured out how to do it. Now these angels couldn't speak into existence like God can, but they participated in creation. They knew at least as much about genetics as our scientists do today. And what does all of the ancient records say? They came down, they took the genetics of women, the genetics of animals, and they created a unique biological entity into which a man's spirit wouldn't be because it wasn't a man. The character of an animal wouldn't go into it because it wasn't a cow.

It was something entirely outside of the divine order. So he said that and I was listening and I'm like, is my boy talking about chimeras? Is my boy talking about chimeras? I'm asking you Jordan right now. I think he's a little bit. You think my boy's talking about chimeras? I think he's talking about genetic fucking alterations. This seems chimera-adjacent, real hard.

Angels couldn't speak things into existence. However, they do know the basic amino acid structure and thus are capable of altering genes in order to create. Which, hey, by the way, I would say the end result is the same. God, hey, hold on. Don't you dare say that. I would say. You can't just speak amino acids into existence.

I would say like if God's line in the sand is like you can do the same thing as me, but I can just go blah and do it like I don't know. I'm not sure. Not sure if this is a good division of powers. I think that if I were God, I would say, hey, I'm going to reserve that power for myself. You'd be a shit God. These these fucking watchers have found work around.

They've found pathways. Anytime, anytime you get really into the weeds of theology, sooner or later, they always point out loopholes in their own belief system. Not true. Get really into the weeds of theology scholars. They don't. Oh, yeah. No, of course.

No, of course. They talk about the translations of various words. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. No, no, no, they're boring. They're nerds. Yeah.

No, when you get in with these guys, it's always like they create this. They create this bullshit God. And then this God is dumb enough to have then created bullshit loopholes that allow the dumb things that this dumb God has created to then make God look dumb. Like it's dumb. I didn't want my minions to do X, but I created them with all of the abilities to do X. Now, their argument to that would be that God is super into free will. Sure.

And the idea is that you're supposed to choose not to do that. And I'm pretty sure Calvin would disagree. I'm pretty sure that I'm pretty sure that there's a Hobbes. What about he's, he's not real, Dan. That's a double on time, by the way. What? Are you talking about the Leviathan? Yep.

Yeah. So I was thinking, like as I listened to that, like I said, my boy talking about cameras. Oh, he's talking about cameras. It wasn't clear. I'm sure it's not. It's not a cow. Not a cow. So it's not an animal.

Nope. It's not a person. Nope. So it's not a person. Something's got to get in there. But it's something in between. Yeah. And that means that angel souls or whatever can get in there.

Elephants. That's why they were going to kill us. Could be. That's it. One word was wrong. That'll plague me. I don't know what he was talking about. What word was wrong?

I don't know. Does he not explain it? Nope. No context. I thought for sure we were going to get that word. Zero context. What? Nope.

You can't just say one word was wrong and then not say what that word was. No, because he started jumping off into like everyone wants money. That's where he took that line of thought. So this guy's fucking insane. Anyway, here's where it's really clear they're talking about cameras. Now ask yourself what's happening in science around the world today, in transhumanism, in laboratories around the world. Here in the United States of America, here in Missouri,

we are creating animals with human DNA inside. He's not from Missouri because he's not from Missouri because if he was and he had this voice, he would have said Missouri. I know that much right off the top. There you go. Slide them at the University of Missouri. Yes, we are. Spider goats.

That's my alma mater. I can tell you with almost categorical certainty, they are not doing that. 100% making chimeras right now. They are not. 100% making chimeras. Spider goats. They don't have anywhere near the funding for that. Not goats.

Not spider goats. Here are the spider goats. For Xenotransplantation experiments, this is happening all across the world. You just made up Xenotransplantation. Published a book lit, a 150 page booklet, if somebody emails me, I'll send it to them. That's actually a book. 150 pages in which they call animals containing human material, human animal chimeras, and they assert that they are being created by the thousands in laboratories around the world.

And some of them, they say, reaching human cognition. Animals that begin questioning, who am I? With their sad eyes. If they're a god. Oh, there's people with their sad eyes. We're going to pause there because we're going to let this one go. No, we're going to finish the rest of this clip, but like you exactly. You know why he's saying that?

Because he's friends with Steve Quayle. Of course. Who said the same thing to Alex. All of this goes back to Steve Quayle. God damn it. The edge that they've created animal, humans, that have the ability to cross breed with natural humans. If this isn't the days of Noah, if this isn't a repeat of the sin of the watchers,

I don't know what is. But once again, you say, you opened the show yesterday saying how many churches would know if I said, what about CERN? What do you know about CERN? Right. How many people know that in thousands of laboratories around the world, we are creating human animal chimeras, they're supposed to be destroyed at the embryonic level. They are a great Britain from their equivalent of the FDA.

It says they're not all being destroyed. There's literal islands of Dr. Moreau. These would be like a new form of Nephilim. What is it that's in them? If they're not animal, if they're not human, what is it that's in them? What is this? This is just a less charismatic version of Alex. Yeah.

This is the same thing. This is a bummer. Also, I hate to be petty, but it would be the islands of Drs. Moreau. Much like it's attorney's general. Exactly. Yes. I got you. This is just another example of them warping things about science that are weird.

What are these fucking people doing? It's all just Steve Coyle. Oh my God. Read a book. Well, he unfortunately read a book. It was written by Steve Coyle. So I told you we're going to get back to CERN, and in this next clip we do. And this is pretty fun.

When the angel comes down with a key to the bottomless pit, opens it up and it says they have a king over them down there, which is Abaddon, which is called in the Greek tongue Apaleon Apollo. And of course, that's the spirit that's going to come up and inhabit the Antichrist. So to build this machine that wants to open a door into another universe, right where the ancients said the Apaleacum was located is just some kind of unnerving, right? Wow. Wow, that is.

Yes, wow is correct. Yeah. The other part of that is that's fucking dumb. What does CERN mean? Translation, the name you guys know, C-E-R-N. I know originally it was originally had initials. I used to know I forget it. First of all, the long pause and then I used to know I forget.

Not great. Not great. But it used to have initials. That's right. CERN, it was a French acronym. Right. Now, a lot of people said, you know, well, CERN doesn't really mean anything and essentially people thought that it didn't.

Like I said, it was a French acronym and they realized, you know, this acronym is just kind of silly. So they actually ditched the acronym and they kept the name CERN. What? So my question is, what does CERN mean? Could it have, I mean, could it be connected to something else as well? What? Well, it's interesting that in the Wiccan faith that there are two main deans and the

main deity is called the horned god or her in the hunter. And this horned god, if you look back to the conventional name given to it by this, the Celts, am I saying that right? No. Celts. The name given to this deity is CERN, you know, and it's actually the god of the underworld. So he has read a blog. That is the most wild, disconnected bullshit.

I think I've heard from somebody who is scrambling to remember. Zach has read a blog. Zach, Zach, how is it that you can say that it used to be a French acronym, but then you cannot say what that acronym stood for? Well, CERN was founded in 1952 and it takes its name from what the group was originally called the Conciel Europien pour le research nucléaire. Sounds like what Celts believed in. Yep.

That acronym was substantially better than what they would have ended up with when they changed their name in 1954 to the Organisation Europien pour le research nucléaire. OERN is a shit acronym. CERN. Yeah. So everyone decided to keep CERN as an acronym when they changed their name from Conciel to Organisation. So like Council to Organisation.

Yeah, yeah. They changed the name just based on like a vote. Yeah. And they're like, you know what? We're not it. We're not. Oarn sucks. Because Council suggests that it's a small group of people making decisions.

Organisation suggests that it's a large group of people all working together. Yes. Now, it's been the Organisation Europien pour le research nucléaire since 1954. They changed the name then but have kept the abbreviation CERN. Because of the Celts. Again. No, because it's better. Because of the Celts.

Oarn sucks. So one of the reasons that idiot conspiracy theorists in America are probably more prone to target CERN is because we're not a member of the associate country. What a shocker. We have observer status, which we've held since 1997. Well, that's nice. But we're not an active participant. And I think that that sort of rankles some feathers in some ways.

That's because I'm going to go with Obama's fault. Sure. Sure. Absolutely. I ran deal. Yep. That's what it is. So there's some sort of anti-American projection that I think a lot of people

like these folks are feeling about this. 02:32:41,920 --> 02:32:44,480 They're like, what are these damn Europeans doing? And you can feel it in the same way. They're just like, I think it's a French acronym. But like it's a French acronym for the Council of European Research into Nuclear Stuff. You know, like it's the most simple acronym that you could know if you did any understanding. The fact that he said it's a French acronym.

Any research. He said it's a French acronym. Like one of the words is Satan. No, no, no, no, no, no. Like acronym in French means something different than here. Like he's saying it's a French acronym as though who knows what those people think acronyms are. Those weirdos.

Well, but it's that it's that anti-foreign, anti-other mentality that's just it's it's crazy everywhere in this ship. Crazy to me how we began this episode with Jim Baker saying, there is only one God. Jehovah. And then at the end of this, as we've continued on through this, Jim Baker believes now that every mythology is real. He must. Yeah.

Or at least there's some validity to it. Yeah. They're throwing in every God from everywhere. CERN is Celtic now. But why? Celtic. Celtic. Celtic.

Oh, I apologize. But I think CERN is actually Danny Ainge. But that's who CERN is. I think that I think that some of that though we were not unpacking up correctly. I think I think there's a decent amount of that that is like, I don't believe this is real, but I'm afraid they do. Yeah, that sort of thing that and so I think that there's a little bit of leeway in terms of him not like fully ascribing subscribing to every pantheon while he still brings fear

of every pantheon. I think there's some wiggle room. It's not great. I'm going to go. I'm going to, you know what, if it was like once or twice, I would I would more lean towards you. But it seems like they're bringing up all they're just throwing everything like we got Shiva in there.

We got the fucking Sun God in Arizona. We got the Celts. We got we got Apollo is the one who's going to come up from the ground. That's what God prophesied. But now God knows that Apollo is there. Like everything is real to these people. Everything is real. I mean, I think it is in the Bible that Azazel does get bound like deep within the earth

or something like that. Sure. But that's Apollo now. Sure. Well, Abaddon. So let's get back to this Celtic deity. Hmm. I hate that.

I love it when he says the Celts. Am I saying am I saying that right? Everybody's like, sure. No one's no talking. You're talking about Bill Russell, right? No one is is at all thrown off. So there's a Celtic deity that is named Sir Nanos and his other name is Larry Bird. Yes.

Very racist. So the name Sir Nanos only exists in one place in history and it's on the pillar of the boatman, which is something that was from around first century BC, common era. That is where we got the phrase that Jesus said, I'm going to make you boaters of men. Right. I'm going to make you boatmen of titties, motor boatmen of titties. I'm losing it towards the end of this. So Sir Nanos exists only on this pillar.

Yeah. The name Sir Nanos has existed nowhere else in antiquity, much like Paulie Floyd's place. Yes. Yeah. Is that same sort of thing. Which again, the now that you've told me that, that's going to haunt me. Probably. The idea that there's, yeah.

But there's a bunch of examples of it and that sort of thing is so fascinating to me. Now I'm going to spend all of my time researching that you've just ruined my life. I don't remember what the word for it is, but there's a whole collection of like words that only exist in one place ever. And it's so fascinating that like history has that much room that we have these like all these texts from history. Yeah. And nope, that word was.

That word's one time. That was a one time word. It was one off. So this name only exists on this pillar of the boatmen, which was, like I said, from the first century CE and was discovered later. It doesn't really matter because Sir Nanos plays like seventh banana on that pillar to Jupiter, Vulcanus, and a host of Roman and Gallic deities. Yes.

Historians conjecture that he was. Those are French deities, if you're nasty. Trebius, may we, um, they historians conjecture that he was the Lord of animals or wild things based on his horned appearance. Chimera. He has horns. Chimera. Sure.

But there's a lot of, there's a lot of deities over time. There's a lot of Chimeras. Right. So another thing like a bunch of other people have asserted that he's the God of fertility in some, uh, some ways. God of the underworld is also in there, but it's like. Toss it. It's one of 12.

Just toss him in there. A lot of underworld gods these days. He's not, he's not one to one associated with the underworld like Zach, who's dumb, is saying. So dumb. Now it's interesting because some forms of Wicca have taken on recognizing Sir Nanos, but only as much as they'll take on about any God from any culture that has fucking horns. Nothing against the Wiccans out there, but you love a horned deity. They like horns.

Right. And so I, I feel like, I don't know this. I don't know this to be universal. I don't know what you're going to say. And I, what I think you're going to say, it doesn't sound great. From my experience with Wiccans. All right. In, in high school.

Here it comes. And, and in later times. I feel like the horns are going to be important. No, no, no. I find, I have found, and again, this is not a blanket statement. Just my own observation. It seems that the people who are drift, who drift that direction also are people who are kind of nerdy and like obscure things.

So I would, I would suggest that people who are attracted to Wiccanism are also people who do deep reading into various cultures around the world, various deities. And probably someone was like, I found this fucking obscure horned God. Yeah. This is going to be awesome. It's going to be great. And then they became really cool in their circle and then Sir Nanos came to being. Right.

And now Zach is making a scary thing because this one bowl image is on a fucking pillar that was fucking buried underground for 1300 years. This was all actually laid out in a prophecy by Douglas Adams called The Long Dark Tea Time of the Soul. And everybody should read that book. It's fantastic. Oh my God. There's a babble fish in one of his books.

He's probably means he's Illuminati. He stepped into the God, whatever. Sure. It's a fish. Oh boy. So Jordan, we have one more clip. Yes. I wanted to have one more clip after this, but I didn't cut it because it was pointless

and it was just Jim once again saying that the apostles read the Septu again. Sure. And I was like, wow, we already made that point. So there's one thing I think we've seen a number of parallels between our worlds. Yes. The Project Camelot, Alex Jones, and the Jim Baker. You could almost say that CERN had created a parallel universe where all of these worlds existed at the same time.

On this show. Exactly. But I think that there's one thing on a deeper level connects Alex Jones, Swery Carey Cassidy, and Jim Baker's. I hope it's Larry Nichols. It's not. It is this trend. Okay.

Now I've often wondered if the Antichrist isn't going to have something strange about his genetics. In the neighborhood? Let me give you a scenario here that I think is important. You mentioned a moment ago the beast of the field. And you said when you were in prison, I'm glad you brought it up because you're the only other person I've ever heard that understood this. The Greek word there is therion.

Real quick, the part that Jim Baker was talking about him being in prison, very clearly cut out of this episode. Because I listened to all three hours of this, and that is not something that's not something that's referenced back to. Also, I don't know what Greek word he's talking about, but let's let it fly. Yeah. And the reason it's in translated beast is because it essentially means tiny beast, like microscopic size beast.

And it fits perfectly with your scenario that this we're talking here about a virus. We're talking about a plague, a pandemic that maybe will come over from the animals, but it's therion. It's microscopic, dangerous, destructive. Maybe that's the fourth rider, right? Maybe it's a weaponized version of Ebola or something like that. But very quickly, did you ever see the movie? I am legend with Will Smith.

All right. So a pandemic. I like to use visuals. So real quick, that's the connection. They all think that sci-fi is real. Sci-fi is nothing but the dreams of men. Sci-fi is the dreams of men. They all deal with sci-fi as like a documentary,

as opposed to elucidating trends that are part of the human condition. You know, like that sort of like those sorts of things. Like if you look at... What if instead of metaphor or allegory, everything was just true? Oh man. Shit be weird. Shit would be weird. Also, it's fucking fascinating that Alex Jones has also very clearly misrepresented

the same movie. So now... Wait, so he's talking about the one with Will Smith, right? 100%. Dude, that's disappointing. Fucking he's old enough to know that Vincent Price crushed that role. Vincent Price too gay for him to talk about. So now this...

They're coming from all over the place. That was not... No, no, no. That was Fred Schneider. That was Paul Lind. There's somewhere in between those two. But dude, where he goes with this exegesis of I Am Legend is very worth it. Okay.

People understand. A pandemic breaks out on the earth, right? Wipes out almost all life on earth, but there is one guy. Totally. For reasons that are unknown, his blood is naturally immune to the pandemic. Those are unknown reasons. And so he sets himself up inside of a house and he's been there working. He's trying to capture these zombie-like beings and trying to create a cure, right?

For this pandemic. Well, by the end of the movie, he does, you find out that's why he's a legend. He's the only guy on earth whose blood is naturally immune. Now let's take that back to the Antichrist for a moment. No. We know that the Antichrist is the antithesis of Jesus, right? Jesus was the Son of God. He is the Son of Perdition, the Son of the Devil.

Jesus worked miracles. He works miracles. Jesus rose from the dead. He receives a deadly head wound in all the world marvels, right? And people have created a whole list of how he is the antithetical. He's dogged at Christ, right? Well, imagine this. Jesus also said that unless you eat of my flesh and drink of my blood and partake in communion,

you will have no part in me. Wouldn't it be just like the Antichrist to create a situation where a pandemic is sweeping the world? Hundreds of thousands of people are dying and there's only one guy on earth whose blood is naturally immune to this disease. And it turns out to be the Antichrist, the mark of the beast. The only way you can be cured from this disease is you have to literally partake in the form of immunization with the blood and flesh of the Antichrist. It would be a satanic communion.

I see one problem with this beyond the myriad of problems. And that is the Antichrist didn't say partake of my flesh and my blood. Yeah. One guy did. But wouldn't it be just like the Antichrist if he did say that? Obviously. If people need to drink your blood to survive, you just might be the Antichrist. The way he's working that metaphor is troubling because there's one guy who said that and that was Jesus.

So the other thing is, I love the idea of that being your theological argument. Wouldn't it be just like the Antichrist? That would be such an Antichrist move to do. Wouldn't it be just like the Antichrist to get crucified for our sins? Oh man, he is a fucking Sarah all the way. Wouldn't it just be like the Antichrist to turn lobes and fishes into a multitude of lobes and fishes? You know.

Wouldn't it be just like the Antichrist to raise Lazarus from the dead? Wouldn't it be just like Jesus? God doing the mirror the exact same fucking thing. Oh God. How fucking stupid is that entire long metaphor? It's touching. It's like in the middle of it, you're saying that God and Jesus is the one who say, unless you take of my blood and my flesh, you will die.

And then you're like, oh, the bad guy's gonna fucking do that. And I'm basing this on a metaphor. I'm making off misunderstanding a goddamn Will Smith move. Furthermore, if you had actually read the fucking Omega man, you would know that the reason that he is legend is because he's the evil guy. He's the bad guy. But that metaphor actually extends. Right.

That would make that would make far more sense than the dumb metaphor that he is making. Well, of course, because if you wanted to work in the idea that these zombies aren't really blood thirsty zombies and they have and they're actually people, they have community and they have they have relations and inter like they are only monsters in the mind of the person who right views them as monsters. Right. Then you might extrapolate that towards immigrants. You might, but but he could use that as a better metaphor from the I am legend omega

man sort of world for the anti Christ being the one who's trying to trick you into thinking that you aren't humans. Exactly. He could do a much better job with the actual text as a why are we always doing punch up for these guys? Well, because it's easy. It's not hard. They're dumb.

But I do love. I do love so much that all of these people are just like, have you ever seen the matrix? Exactly. Yeah, it's all that. It's so much like I get it. Movie that's fun readings hard. I do get that. I struggle with it.

I struggle with reading a lot. I love it. I sit there like the other night that Carter Page FISA came out. Yeah. And I'm like, man, this is a lot. Warrants are boring. This sucks. Warrants are boring.

I'm sitting through there. I'm like, I wish there was a movie I could compare this to. I wish I could just watch a movie and be like, it's just like that. I don't know. Tinker Tager Tinker Taylor soldier spy. That's a book. It was a movie. Yeah, I guess it was too.

There's a lot of shortcuts and propaganda turns out. Yeah. They're pretty funny. Oh my God. So I don't know what we've learned. Any idea? I think we have thoroughly learned that chimeras are real, man. Number one.

Chimeras are real. If you know Steve Quayle. Also, all religions are real. Yes. According to Jim Baker. There's just only one God. Right. All the religions are real, but they're not God.

Well, they don't capitalize the G. That's the difference. Right, right. Yeah, yeah. The earth is hollow. Absolutely. Watch out for, once again, big theme amongst all these shows.

Watch out for reptoid humanoids. Sure, sure. That's a bad, don't even get near that. If someone licks their lips, run. Run. It's too close to. If you have chocolate on you, fucking bail. Bail.

Bail hard. What else? What else? It's easy to pretend that marketing campaigns are lower. Right. Not hard. When you don't look into anything. Also.

The apostles couldn't read. God, it seems like 200,000 is too much for sinks. Oh, big time. Although that house is huge. That house is big. There's a lot of sinks in there, probably. But he's also full of shit. Imagine the amount of wheelchair ramps you need to build for a house that big.

You have to have a big. Only federal regulation. It has to spiral all the way around, all the way up to the top, to all the doors and the windows. That's just how that fire marshal works. And also because this is in 2015, we know from being in the present that Lori's house is open. He did get that $200,000.

What a shock. What a shock. And the way if you like our show. Oh, no, before we do that. What's that? Thank you, Jonathan. We appreciate. Oh, yeah.

That was fucking fantastic. I don't know if we hit all the things you hope we can cover. But we hit a lot. Weird episode. We hit a lot. Um, we do appreciate it so much. If you want more of our show, folks, go to knowledge fight.com. Follow us on Twitter and Facebook.

We're on Facebook. Indeed. You can go to iTunes, download, leave a review. You know all the stuff that podcasts have always said to you since podcast started. It's true. And, uh, you know, just, uh, I don't know. We're terrible at marketing.

If you want people to like our show. Tell them that we're actually named after, uh, two giants. Sure. Who got, uh, flooded out. Knowledge and fight. By two knowledge. Yeah. Each two knowledge to fight is what we would call it.

Each one teach 12 and then we'll have a decent, uh, size audience. I will make you fighters of knowledge is what Jesus said. That's our new shirt. Each one teach 12 each one teach 12. Thank you very much. This has been a lot of fun. Jordan, it's your turn. God, there's, there's so many, but fucking I'm going to have to go with

you lying ass dumb motherfucker. Tom Horn, go fuck yourself. Andy in Kansas. You're on the air. Thanks for holding. So Alex, I'm a first time caller. I'm a huge fan. I love your work.

I love you.