Knowledge Fight - #187: Magic Cheesecloth and Secret Pleiadians

Episode Date: August 1, 2018

Today, Dan tells Jordan all about a fun new Project Camelot adventure where Sweary Kerry interviews a guy about Helen Duncan, noted spiritualist from the 1930's. Tune in to hear two adults pretend Helen wasn't a con-artist, stay for massive lore reveals about Kerry's roster of guests.

Andy and Kansas, you're on the air. Thanks for holding. Hello, Alex. I'm a first-time caller. I'm a huge fan. I love your work. I love you. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to Knowledge Fight. I'm Dan. I'm Jared. We're couple dudes. Like, sit around, drink novelty beverages and talk a little about Alex Jones. Indeed, we are. Dan, were you to describe this podcast to our eventual overlords as they try and murder us one by one slowly? And they were like, oh, you guys do a podcast. It's about gardening. It's about gardening. Oh, I love podcasts about gardening. I can't tell them. I love podcasts about gardening. No, that, that you don't really,

you're just saying that in order to try and scare me and to say what it's really about. No, I would never do that. Let me listen to this podcast about gardening. Hey, everybody, we're gardening today. I don't know anything about gardening. So much about it. You need soil, water, great podcast. You shall survive the apocalypse. Sweet. Thank God. All right, we made it. Good call. Actually what it is now that guy stopped listening. Yeah, go. Thank God. This is a podcast where I know quite a bit about Alex Jones. And I only know what you tell me about Alex Jones does not matter today because today we're gonna take a little project Camelot adventure. So for those of you who don't listen to every episode of our show when what are you

doing every now and again, often on Wednesdays, we like to take a little bit of a break from Alex Jones and his drivel and check out other con men around the world of the weird right-wing internet. We also enjoy taking a break from reality itself. Absolutely. And so when we need to do that, we check in with Project Camelot, a YouTube series where Carrie Cassidy, also known as Swery Carrie. Swery Carrie. She, because she sweared once. I know. That's ridiculous. It's perfect. I love it. She interviews people about the secret space program. And today we've got a very interesting, even departure from that to go into. Okay. Which is super fun. Delightful. He's not a delightful guest. This guy's a monster, but of course it is. This is man. This is going

to be all right. All right. I want to hear this. It's going to be fun. But you know what else is going to be fun saying hello to a new sponsor. Don't don't don't. Well, you know what? Technically, they are all sponsors at the end of the day. Spiritually, you're a sponsor. We appreciate it. You are all better than if Coca-Cola gave us a shit ton of money. No, it's not. Oh, it's not. There'd be a lot of money. No, you know what? I do appreciate it because this comes from the heart and it comes from people actually supporting what we do as opposed to Coca-Cola, just trying to get in on our cachet. Unless Coca-Cola really does support what we do. In which case, guys, you have never listened to the show. Or if they want to just say that they do. Yeah, that would be.

I'll believe them sight unseen with all of her secret space program. Something that we are going to co-opt is our love for our new. Anyway, that's a minus one on the transitions. We haven't seen that in a long time. Thank you so much for joining up with the team. Kevin, you are now a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, Kevin. We appreciate it. And if you'd like to support the show, you can do so by going to knowledgefight.com, clicking that support the show button. That helps. Please do. So, Jordan, please do. Yeah. Anyways, I already sort of made my big reveal that this is a Project Camelot episode. Yes. So there's no big surprise for me to click

this button for you to hear. I feel like this is a setup. No, it's not really. I'm just trying. It's underwhelming because every episode starts with her introduction. Sometimes it's a surprise and this time it's not. So it's not a surprise. Here is Kerry opening up the show and introducing us to what today's topic is going to be. Hi, everyone. I'm Kerry Cassidy from Project Camelot and I'm sorry for the late start here. We've just had all kinds of technical things go on. I forgive you. At any rate, I'm here with Ben Emlin Jones and I'm very happy to have him on the show. There's such a great amount of material that he's been covering and he's an investigator and filmmaker and he's made a documentary on a very fascinating woman. Not good.

Called Helen Duncan. And as I wrote on my below in the chat, basically, her story is that she was framed and thrown in prison by Ian Fleming with the help of Ian Fleming and Churchill. All right. That's big already. I was my first thought when she said Helen and there's a little pause. I was like, did this guy make a documentary about Helen Keller? I had thought Helen a Bonham Carter. That would have been a good one too. Sure. Is she the reason that Tim Burton's movies suck now? I don't know. I don't like to, I don't want to cast blame. I think it's probably the misconception that people have that he made a monkey bone. I think that's gotten into his house. That was produced by him, right? No, no, no. No, it was, it was directed by the person.

The reason is that advertising about monkey bone was all about like from the director of Nightmare Before Christmas or something along with the director from Nightmare Before Christmas was not Tim Burton. Tim Burton produced the Nightmare Before Christmas and then had nothing to do with monkey bone. Exactly. Gotcha. So something along those lines, they tried to use Nightmare Before Christmas as a way to imply that Tim Burton didn't. I only know this because I worked at the movie theater when monkey bone came out and it was scandalous. Everyone was furious. They all, like all these nerds wanted their money back. I couldn't blame them, but I'm like, no, it was a terrible movie. So that leads me to conclude that it must be Churchill who is the

reason Tim Burton's movies suck now. Yeah, that could be. Andy and Fleming. Yes, the two of them together conspired to make his movies terrible. So do you know who Helen Duncan is, my friend? No, but I feel like I at some point did. Like I knew the name, like the name sounded familiar to me, but now I, and now I just don't know what it is. I'm not certain that you would. You might, I don't know. So Helen Duncan was a spiritualist and medium operating from about 1926 until her arrest in 1944. She was creating harmless hoaxes for a really long time and was left largely to her own business, only occasionally running afoul of the law, generally resulting in minor fines for fraud. So she would like defraud people with seances along the road. That's a reputable

scam. Right. I have a lot to get into about, about her and her. And this was in Britain, right? I believe so. Yeah. I think one of the reasons that I might know this name is because this would, like I was reading about Harry Houdini and how he was essentially Ghostbustin at the same time as he was made him feel good. Yeah. And, and he would go around to these spiritualists and be like, here's how you do this trick. And that became a whole thing. And there was a guy who did that in Britain. I don't know if anyone necessarily did that with her as opposed to a lot of people. Yeah. Okay. So I'm going to let this play and then I'll get to some of my information because I'm not sure exactly where it's relevant. And I want, you know, I want this Ben gentlemen to be

able to speak his piece before I do. Yeah. Yeah. Cause I'd like him to hang himself a little bit. Okay. All right. Then I'll, then I'll come in and say, nope. But Helen was born in 1898 in Calendar, which is in Perthshire, Scotland. And she is a spiritual medium. She, from a very young age, she knew she had this amazing ability and she did several things like for example, when she was a young girl, a man who lived in the town where she lived went missing. And so the police and some local people went out on a search party and they took Helen with them. And it was a very, very worrying situation because it was very cold. There was a heavy snowfall. Why'd they take a girl with them? And using techniques that we today call remote viewing,

Helen Duncan managed to find this man and he was rescued before it was too late. Or it could have been a coincidence. I don't know why she would have been out there. The story is apocryphal anyway. I don't really know how to confirm or deny it. Right. And even if it is true, I'm willing to bet gas, randomness, any of those things are much more likely. It was taking the honor to work day. I don't know. Maybe her dad was a cop. Yeah. See, there you go. Or even like this wouldn't involve just the police looking for the guy. No, it was a search party. Be the town. Yeah. Her dad was involved in the search party. Cool. Papa, let me come along. Papa. Papa? Yeah. So like I said, I'm not so interested in her

childhood. I talk a little bit about her adulthood. So in November 1941, Helen was holding a seance where she claimed that the spirit of a sailor aboard HMS Barham had appeared to her and told her that the ship had sunk. This was a bit of an issue because that information was not made public until January 1942. And so she is a psychic. This information was only told to family members of the people lost on the HMS Barham. Oh, so she just met a family member. So some would say that it's proof that she saw spirit. But in reality, there were 861 people on board, all of whose families were told of the sinking, right, and asked that they keep the information secret. When you consider how many family members that makes. And when you consider that all it takes

is for one of these people to talk about it for the secret to get out, you come to this investigation that this information wasn't nearly as secret as the government had meant it to be. Researchers have dug into the information and found that it was not nearly as secret as the government had intended. But many people knew about the sinking before the announcement. So the fact that she knew about it means that she just had heard some like loose talk and decided to use it in one of her seances. But this did get the government's attention. So they started to look into her, they would go to her seances and amazingly the spirits she allegedly was in contact with were often not real people or people who weren't dead. There's one example of like a guy who went

and she was like, I'm talking to your dead aunt. He's like, I don't have any dead aunts. Then later she's like, I found your sister. Like my sister's alive. I'm having a real bad set tonight. Everybody has a bad set from time to time. You bomb. Right. So they sort of looked into her and all this and like, you know, there were little fines that came along running a foul of fraud laws and stuff like that. But in the end, they found an obscure old law, the witchcraft act of 1735 to throw her in prison. All right. I don't like anybody right now. I'm not on anybody's team. There's no role models here. Yeah. Yeah. If you're, if you're using the witchcraft act, you're an asshole. Right. She was the last person charged with this law when she was charged in 1944.

And because it was kind of trumped up bullshit, she was released in 1945, whereupon she promised to stop holding séances. She was arrested for conducting séances again in 1956 and died shortly after. Gotcha. So this is, this is a lot of like, this should give you the basic picture of like, why were the police interested in her? Why draw the suspicion of the government? Right. She's like, I haven't shown you yet exactly why I'm positive that she's a fraud. You can kind of get the sense that like, okay, someone running séances back then for money. I think the dead aunt thing was probably the one that gave it away. But that's sort of, that's like run of the mill stuff. You know, that's, oh, there's, there's more damning evidence.

Okay. All right. That's like, you know, John Edward kind of levels of like, yeah, you guys are all, you guys are all running that game. And you know what? We all kind of know it too. Like everybody who goes to the stance doesn't really believe in that shit, but they, they just want that comfort of believing for a moment. Yeah, it's for entertainment purposes. What have you. But Helen went way further. Helen Duncan was the LeBron James of séances. Oh, so she went out and after that guy's aunt was still alive. She went and killed that aunt and then séance the fuck out of that aunt metaphorically. Yes. Gotcha. She was this clip. Ben explains that she was the most powerful medium of all time. Did not know that. And as she grew older, as she grew up, she,

she joined that special class of medium, a very, very rare, a very rare talent that medium has had, which is manifestation. Manifestation is where a medium does more than just what most mediums do, which is go to a spiritual church and say, yes, I have a message here from somebody over here. Not there's any wrong with that. I don't dismiss them. Something might take seriously respect. Helen could do more than that. Helen Duncan could actually manifest physical objects by exuding ectoplasm. Ectoplasm is a substance that's exuded from the medium body. Still not. Which forms into shapes very often into the shape of an actual person who is passed away. Or slimer from the ghost. She did this, she did it her whole life. And so she was

one of the most powerful mediums you've ever lived. That's an interesting way to look at it. There's other ways. So, Jordan, the way her séance would work, and this, as he made clear there, and I agree with him to some extent, what set Helen apart from other mediums of the day, is that she said she could manifest things into the world that weren't there. Yeah. So she would create this ectoplasm that would come out of her mouth generally. She would claim that the ectoplasm would be connected to apparitions showing up in a very dark room where she conducted her séances. In 1928, a photographer named Harvey Metcalf showed up to a séance and took some flash photographs of these ghosts. Oh, I bet it

didn't work. They were very clearly crudely constructed paper mache masses, covered in a sheet. Just covered in a sheet? Yeah. Somehow this revelation did not destroy Helen's business model, and she continued running séances. Anybody can fake photographs, Dan. Anybody can fake those. So about that ectoplasm. In 1931, the London Spiritualist Academy started to have some questions about Helen's methods. I would imagine that they were thinking, like, hey, this person can do things that literally no one else can do. I wonder what's up with that. And so they opened an examination into her gifts. Very quickly, they were able to determine that the way Helen produced ectoplasm was by ingesting a bunch of cheesecloth and throwing it back up

performatively. The room was dark, and sometimes she would lock herself in a cabinet when producing the ectoplasm. Quote, the most usual method for ectoplasm, however, seemed to be butter, mueslin, or cheesecloth, probably swallowed and regurgitated. Distressing choking noises were sometimes heard from within the cabinet. Because she couldn't throw it up. So she was putting her finger down. Gotcha. Gotcha. Man, they used to give people a lot of the benefit of the doubt on these. So much. That is a crazy amount of benefit of the doubt. So now I'm going to produce this magical stuff, but I have to go make throw-up noises in this closet. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I'm going to be invisible, but just don't look. Like, what are you doing? It's pretty crazy.

So once they figured out that this was probably how Helen was doing her trick, they decided to test their hypothesis. Their most surprising piece of evidence that Helen was full of shit was when they talked- When she literally shit out the cheesecloth. So they talked her into ingesting a blue food dye pill before a performance, which would naturally dye the cheesecloth, she'd already swallowed. Of course. Which would make everything crystal clear. For some weird reason, she was unable to produce ectoplasm that night. Hmm. Mysterious. Odd. She generally produced it all the time. Every time. So that's seen- Look, everybody has a bad set, Ben. Sure. Sometimes they aren't still alive. Sometimes you can't produce ectoplasm on the one night where it

seems imperative that you do so. Even the best comics bomb. Yeah. No. Wait, so the spiritualist society. Yeah. Were they, like, believing in spiritualism or were they like, let's not do the spiritualism thing or the academy or whatever the fuck- From my understanding is they were on board, but also wanted, like, trust but verify kind of- I don't, again, no heroes here. Well, I mean, I think, I think the fact that they were, like, hold on means that they're at least on the right side of things. Man. I'm not heroes. Yeah. Benign actors. Well, I was actually thinking about this in terms of the ectoplasm and manifesting. Like, I am far more believing of people who are like, oh, well, I can communicate to the other space. Because fucking fine. There's multiple dimensions

or whatever. I don't- I mean, it's obviously not true. You draw a weird line. I know. It's obviously not true, but when you start getting into physical stuff, then you start having to talk about actual physics. Like, this is why ghosts don't exist, because there would have to be a particle that makes ghosts. Man. It has to be something that can interact with the physical world. That's foolish, closed-minded thinking. And so if you're producing a manifestation, man, that breaks all the laws of physics, and every single scientist would descend upon you if this even had the width of truth. Well, yeah. Yeah. I mean, to some extent, that's true. Because she could break the simple law of matter cannot be created or destroyed.

Everything is out the window once this lady throws up some cheesecloth. The entire world is forever changed, and we understand nothing. Yeah. So in 1931, that same year, this guy named Harry Price, the director of the National Laboratory of Physical Research, paid Helen to run some tests on her seances. Right. He used a sample of her ectoplasm to definitively show that it was cheesecloth. Why would she let him do that? It's weird, but also this passage from his report is maybe one of my favorite things I've read about one of these con people. This is from his report on one of the seances. Quote, at the conclusion of the fourth seance, we led the medium to a settee and called

for the apparatus. At the sight of it, the lady promptly went into a trance. She recovered but refused to be x-rayed. Her husband went up to her and told her that it was painless. She jumped up and gave him a smashing blow to the face, which sent him reeling. Then she... You shut the fuck up! You shut the fuck up! I'm not getting into that x-ray! She just punched him. She just whammed him. Yeah, just punches her husband. As a woman in the 20s or the 30s or whatever? But also the husband was in on the scam, obviously. Right, right, right, of course. And knew, like, I gotta play along with it. She can hit me if she wants. So then she went for Dr. William Brown, who was present. He dodged the blow. Miss Duncan,

without the slightest warning, dashed out into the street, had an attack of hysteria, and began to tear her seance garment to pieces. She clutched the railings and screamed and screamed. Her husband tried to pacify her. It was useless. I leave the reader to visualize the scene. A 17-stone woman clad in black satine tights, locked to the railings, screaming at the top of her voice. A crowd collected and the police arrived. The medical men with us explained the position and prevented him from fetching an ambulance. We got her back into the laboratory, and at once she demanded to be x-rayed. In reply, Dr. William Brown turned to Mr. Duncan and asked him to turn out his pockets. He refused and would not allow us to search him. There's no question that his wife

had passed him the cheesecloth in the street. Nice! However, they gave us another seance, and the control said we could cut off a piece of teleplasm when it appeared. The sight of half a dozen men, each of the pair of scissors waiting for the word, was amusing. It came and we all jumped. One of the doctors got a hold of the stuff and secured a piece. The medium screamed and the rest of us, and the rest of the teleplasm, went down her throat. This time it wasn't cheesecloth. It proved to be paper, soaked in egg white, and folded into a flattened tube. Could anything be more infantile than a group of grown men wasting time, money, and energy on the antics of a fat female crook?

He did not need to throw the fat part in there. That's cruelty. That is cruel. That's a little rude. Look, adding insult to injury is not necessary, dear. It's very rude, unnecessary, but it is 1931. I was going to say, when you said 17 stone, also it did help, though, that he called her fat because I was like, 17 stone, is that a lot or is that a little? I'm not used to these measurements. Is that a good amount? What's the BMI on stone? But I love the idea that in his report, he's talking about how fucking humorous that scene is, and the fact that immediately they knew that, oh, you faked attack of some sort in order to

cover for your passing off of the evidence. Excuse me, ma'am. We have seen Slide of Hand before, so could you not? That one's simple to call. Also in 1931, Harry Price's report was issued whereupon a Miss Mary McGinley came forward. She was Miss Duncan's personal maid at the time of the seances, and she made a statutory declaration before a commissioner of oaths that she used to purchase from Miss Duncan lengths of cheesecloth, which she had to wash off before a seance. She also swore on oath that Mr. Duncan had informed her on the night of the scene at the National Laboratory that his wife had, quote, passed a roll of butter muslin to him when they were alone in the street. So their suspicions were even confirmed by her maid making

a statement. You can't trust her. There's a whole conspiracy of people trying to suppress the knowledge of the spirits, Dan. Sure, Dan, you got to believe. And when the evidence says no, you believe harder. I can't, like without this being a visual show, I can't stress enough how comical the pictures of her seances are, because there's just a length of cheesecloth coming out of her mouth. Like the pictures that that guy who had the flash photography, they're just like there's cheesecloth coming out of her mouth that lead up to like a big puppet. It's crazy how easy it was to con people just 70 years ago. Man, people are so stupid. Yeah. But because a lot of this is so harmless, for the most part, you're just scamming gullible people out of money for the

seances. She was mostly left alone through most of her career and tell that gossipy bit of business that she laid out about the HMS Barham. Right. Like that's really where she like, oh, you stepped out of line. And even that she only went to prison for less than a year. Yeah, but see, that's more the government's fault than anybody else. I don't disagree with that at all. Like they did the, who was it? There was a research study done on how like keeping a secret and every person that you add with knowledge of that secret, it like geometrically becomes more and more likely that the secret's gonna get out. If you have the family members of 800 people, it's gonna get out. Right. There's no way it doesn't get out. And I can't remember who it was exactly because it's

not really relevant to the bigger story. But researchers who dug into it did find specific examples of people who admitted that they told people about it. Yeah, of course. The idea that we're just guessing that people talked about it before it was made public, it's not guessing. People were like the information got out. Yeah. Like even people who are like, I didn't realize that I wasn't supposed to talk about this. Because why would you? Right. Let's say you're the mother of one of the sailors. Yeah. You get the information, you end up telling other family members, maybe the secondary relaying of the information doesn't have that. Yeah, exactly. Don't snitch part about it. You end up with all sorts of loose links in the channel. Not only is everybody

trying to keep a secret, but there's also a game of telephone being played along the way. There's zero chance. There's zero chance that it was kept. Also one of the pieces that she had to substantiate that she had spoken to this ghost sailor was that she had like a piece of one of their hats that said HMS Barham on it. It was made out of paper mache, though. It was cheesecloth. No, the problem is that years before this sinking of the ship, they had changed the hats. So all of the ships just said HMS. They didn't actually have the specific name. So it could have been any yeah. Or it had to have been like years old. Yeah. And it wouldn't be like soldiers current uniforms. So it just shows even further. It was a hat he owned at one point. Or more likely

she had just made it. Yeah. So anyway. I mean, she's a dynamo with just cheesecloth. Of course, she can make a ratty old hat. She's a killer fraud woman in like the 20s, 30s. Pretty bad now. You know, it's like when they played baseball in the 20s, the fastball was like 70 miles an hour. Like that's what she's she's throwing 70 miles. She's throwing meatballs now. But at the time she was fucking blowing by people. Yeah, there's an elevation of the game. And she did not allow black people to play too. So exactly like American baseball in the 1920s. Speaking of bigotry, we get back to Ben here. And we find how he came into the world of the spirits and the paranormal and the conspiracy. I came across a video by David Ike and a book. And that's fair to say

changed my life. I endorse everything that David Ike says. I don't I'm not suggesting I agree with everything he says. I certainly don't. But I found a kind of do though, don't you? The book. It was the biggest. It was the biggest secret. I mean, I actually watched the video first and then I bought the book the biggest secret. And there's several other books of his that I bought. And that really led me down the rabbit hole, so to speak. As the saying goes, David is the Rex Hill took that. Oh, God damn it. Took the red pill. So I think I've changed my tune a little bit as we've gone down this podcast. I think my tune before was much more like David Ike. He likes lizards. And he is right about some stuff. I've said that before, like the idea of like, hey, don't watch

so much TV. But as we go along, I do think that the things that I was like, David Ike who cares are so minimal compared to the bigger issues that we sort of look at. And the fact that like David Ike thinks that the the protocols of the elders of Zion is real. Yeah, those sorts of things are much bigger issues. Yeah. And I think that I was remiss a little bit in just being like, I give David Ike a pass. Who cares? He's a crazy old dude. That's not fair. Especially when you see that his influence kind of tentacles out. He's the one who woke up Paul Joseph Watson. He's the guy who woke up this dude. Can we not use that? We nobody should be allowed to talk about the matrix for like 10 years. I'm calling a moratorium. Oh, this this Ben guy, he 100% believes complete moratorium.

Nobody can use the red pill analogy ever again. This guy literally believes that we're in the matrix, which is the least crazy thing he believes. That sounds a lot of people would put forth the simulation theory. That makes sense. I'm fine with that. I can't find the specifics on this. So I feel like I can only relay this as like secondhand ish. I can't spend all my time digging through all sorts of message boards. But I did find a number of instances of people quoting Ben Jones, Ben whatever his middle name is, Jones, yeah, on message boards, denying the Holocaust, talking about how there was no Zyklon B, all that sort of thing, right, right. And like the gas chambers weren't gas chambers. Why wouldn't you so I believe it in as much as it follows, believing David Ike

and having the beliefs that he has. But I don't want to say it specifically because I can't find the original post just repostings of things that he said to have posted. There's enough instances where I'm like, hmm, think this might be real. Yeah, but not enough that I can be like, I know you deny the Holocaust. Well, the the the it would work in a civil trial, not a criminal trial. Good call. That's what I would say. Good call. That's how they got OJ. I it's so much that I'm not saying I agree with everything. Line is such the same thing that Republicans do to like distance themselves from people that they totally 100% agree with everything they said on. But it's like, Oh, this guy, like the Nazi running for Congress in Illinois, like an avowed Nazi, Republicans are

like, Whoa, I don't agree with everything you said. Rauner isn't even like, I mean, I'm not going to vote for a Democrat against a Nazi. He's a Republican. Come on. I don't agree with everything he says, but you know, like that kind of thing. There's also a cheap game that gets played where you do that sort of thing where you're like, I don't believe in everything he says, which allows the brain to be like, Oh, the stuff that's terrible. He doesn't believe that. I'm going to choose what stuff you don't believe in. Right. You're not going to explicitly tell me what you don't believe it. It's vague enough to like, includes the plausible deniability. Yeah. Yeah. It's weak shit. It's weak tea. It's very, very lame. So we heard at the beginning of this episode,

Kerry was saying that Ian Fleming was involved, the writer of the James Bond novels. Of course he was involved and Ben believes that as well. Of course. And you might think after listening to this clip that this is, this is a house build on a foundation of sand. Okay. But I've always, to begin with, I've always been interested in history. It's always fascinating. We guys always are interested in history. The wrong kind of history, especially here in Britain. It's a major part of our culture in the modern world. The Hogwarts has been around for a thousand years. In the Helen Duncan story, for example, commander Ian Fleming, the author of James Bond. And it turns out that he, of all of them, has the most interesting backstory. And I think he

is probably the, there's no evidence of this precisely. But it's the circumstantial evidence points to him being almost a pivotal figure in this, because it was Fleming who was involved basically in the D-Day organization. So he already said there's no evidence of this per se, but there's circumstantial evidence that I'm choosing to connect to it. This next clip, he says more, and boy, this isn't good. This is where we get busted. And is it, and there's another book that's been written about this, which I can't remember, I've not read, but I've looked into it. And what?

That's not good. What? I don't know the name of this book. I've not read it. What? Then it doesn't exist. You can't use that as evidence. I don't know, I don't know the title of this book and I haven't read it. That's all books. That's all books. That's all books. You can only say things about the books that you've read, even if it, look, it is allowing you to take like universal knowledge.

Yeah. Yeah. That's everything. Yeah. Yeah. I, there is a book. I don't know the name of it, and I haven't read it, but there's a book about how this Ben Jones guy is full of shit. Actually, I'm working on it right now. It's a documentary. Right. It's actually his own documentary. Yeah. I want to watch that thing. Because Carrie describes it as a stream of consciousness at one point.

And I'm like, I've got to watch this. I want to watch a stream of consciousness documentary about a filled with lies about a liar. Yes. About a con person who you're just taking a complete face value. It's, it's, it's baffling. Absolutely. So Jordan, this lady, I absolutely, Helen Duncan was pulling some bullshit. There's no doubt about it. None.

But there's some reasons to be suspicious about the circumstances wherein she was punished by the law. Because she saw D-Day happening in advance? No. Because of Ian Fleming. Put that aside. It's not important. We'll get back to that tiny bit here a little bit, but it's so not important to the bigger picture of things. There's some reasons to be suspicious.

And we'll get to them here in this next clip. Sure. I do think perhaps there was more at stake even than this. And it could be the reason why they wouldn't let Helen Duncan perform a science in court. Because during the witchcraft trial, she actually asked, she, this was, she actually pinned all her hopes or her solicits of it, in a sense, pinned her hopes on this, that she would actually prove she was genuine in the meeting. It's supposed to mean performing a science in court.

Exactly. And the judge would like to do it. So no, you're not doing this. Yeah, that is, that's another piece of the puzzle, which is really strange. No, it's not. That's not at all. I'm pretty sure that seance, I'm pretty sure ghosts aren't admissible evidence. If I were a judge, I would be like, how dare you?

You want to do a seance in court? How about you go fuck yourself? There is no place in court for a seance. Quite literally, it's the opposite of a seance. Because she could get into court and possibly like trick a jury. Well, the people that we now know existed back then, she would totally trick a jury. If there was a jury trial, yeah. I don't know, man.

The other reason, you run into issues that you open up a can of worms when you allow seance in court. Then you got to allow a whole lot of shit in there. Holy shit. If that's in precedent, yeah, not good. Next thing you know, there's going to be like voodoo ceremonies in court. Now, on the other hand, maybe what the judge was afraid of is setting the precedent that seances were real and then thus admissible in court for all time.

If a witchcraft law from the 1700s can be used to convict her now, then so could seances be used to win civil cases now? Like, is that how it goes? I don't think that there's any chance of this. But let's imagine a nightmare scenario where accidentally she gets off and the seance is like, well, I guess it was valid. I guess it was valid. You would then introduce a situation where in court you could call ghost witnesses.

Yeah, for sure. You could do it. It would be a disaster. For sure. So there's 100 reasons not to allow seances in court. Also, that was this clip started right after he went into a long thing about like, why didn't they just pay her to be quiet? Like, I guess that isn't awesome.

I suppose. Yeah, all right. I mean, I think proving that she's a giant fucking liar makes more sense. But paying her to be silent would also work. Sure. So there's an interesting sism that's going on on this episode. And it's very interesting because Ben believes that, not Winston Churchill, that's Kerry. He believes that Ian Fleming is behind all this.

Of course. And Kerry believes that Ian Fleming is behind it, but he was reporting to Winston Churchill. Right. Directly. Of course. And so Ben is like, no, Churchill didn't know about it. There's a letter that he had sent to the prosecutors asking what's going on with this case. Yeah.

Because he had read about it in the media. Kerry probably believed in say answers. Kerry says, fuck no. She knows the Churchill was involved. How does she know? I quite agree with you, but I have to say in terms of my understanding is that Ian Fleming reported to Churchill and that they were trying to hide D-Day. And D-Day, Churchill wasn't in charge of D-Day, really.

And I don't know if you've read this book. It's called OPJB. It's a very old book, actually reverse now when I put it on the screen this way. So I don't know why that happens, but it does. Anyway, I highly recommend it if you haven't because it really does reveal Fleming's involvement very deeply involved in D-Day. So OPJB is a nice abbreviation for Operation James Bond. This book is roundly seen as ludicrous.

But you do have to give her points for knowing the name of the book and having read it. And it's right in front of her. See, there you go. It's almost clearly a work of fiction. Nothing in it could be substantiated by an investigation. So the publisher added a note to it saying, quote, in the end, readers will have to make their own judgments about what they believe. What is not in doubt is this book is a thrilling story from a remarkable man.

We could say the same thing about everything Larry Nichols said. Absolutely. So the book, basically the underlying story of it has to do with the idea that Martin Borman did not die in Berlin in April 1945 as the story goes. But actually a spy mission was carried out to grab him up in order to have him flip and tell the British where all the Nazi gold was. Because Martin Borman was involved in the finances of the Reich. In order to do this, the British went in, kidnapped him and replaced him with a lookalike

who was then killed. Okay. In 1998, in 1998, this claim was kind of hurt by an exhumation of Borman's body who OPJB would claim has to be a lookalike. Yeah. They ran genetic tests on the corpse and proved it was in fact, Martin Borman. Can't trust it until I hear it from him. Say us.

Say us, me, Dan. So now the new story is that that investigation and the exhumation is a white wash. Of course. Because it can't, you can't give up. You can't just give up when you already don't believe in reality. Why stop now? Right, right. You know, it is that like roll them bones.

It is that thing where you get trapped in a sort of logic when you just believe something for no reason, because it's something you just want to believe and it's more appealing to you. Then whenever counter evidence comes to you, it's so easy to just be like, oh, that's bullshit. Yeah. Oh, yeah. All that evidence is bullshit. Yeah. It wasn't, you know what, you know what, fuck you, man.

Ectoplasm is cheesecloth. Wait, wait, wait. You made the other leap of being literally now it's ectoplasm? Why not? Every time I've bought cheesecloth, all kinds of shit has happened. See, it is actual ectoplasm that's coming out of her, but it's like, you know, if you have a gun, it's a real gun. Right.

You can't do anything without a bullet. She has to put the cheesecloth in in order for it to come out as ectoplasm. Okay. You stupid asshole. All right. That makes sense. Sure. Or perhaps ectoplasm only comes from cheesecloth.

See, they don't even do this. This would be a way that they could at least cogently argue that the very clear evidence that the shit they're talking about is fake is not fake, but they don't. They just ignore the idea that like, well, she was proven to be a con person on a number of occasions. You start asking yourself questions and eventually you're going to find an answer and you won't like it. So you just don't ask yourself questions. Just put a fucking little paper machete mask on, throw a sheet over yourself and become a ghost.

Become cheesecloth. So that's our new red pill. We're not using red pill anymore. We're saying they became cheesecloth. Cheese your cloth baby. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the, at this point, I think everything is pretty thin that they're going off on. Uh-huh.

The idea that, I mean, you know, even Fleming was involved in intelligence in England. Yeah. That's why he's able, was able to write James Bond. So detailed and all that shit, but I don't. And reportedly he did fuck a lot. So that's why he got to throw fucking a lot. Uh-huh.

00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:48,400 Absolutely. Um, and he was also clearly homophobic, which is why most of the villains have a weird sexuality. Yeah. Yeah. 00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:54,800 00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:54,800 00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:54,800

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00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:54,800 00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:54,800 00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:54,800 00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:54,800 00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:54,800 00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:54,800 00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:54,800 00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:54,800

00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:54,800 00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:54,800 00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:58,800 Yeah, but he was a bit on the nose with pussy galore. I'm not going to lie to you. He was a bit on the nose there. I don't know if anybody's pointed that out before, but do you know what that means? Hmm. That name.

Lot of beef. Yeah. Yeah. So I think there's a little bit of a thinness to the evidence so far. So that means it's based on a book that he doesn't know the name on it and he hasn't read. And it wasn't that book that Carrie just brought up. So there's another book. It's a whole different book.

So, um, that, Carrie mentioning that book gets him to be like, well, maybe that's true, which shows the depth of these people's convictions. This is exactly like whenever she fucking led the other guy. It was like, listen, she's going to try and do that in a little bit. But before she does, because the evidence is so thin, she's got to pull into her bag of tricks and pull out what I'm starting to believe is literally her only source. I have to say that Churchill cannot have been blind to the sort of black, satanic side

of the Nazis and many other things that were going on during those times. Of course, I have other evidence because I've got a witness, Captain Mark Richards, who I interview in prison. You may be familiar with his name. Yes, Joanne is on the circuit talking about his story. But I, as I say, have gone to the prison and interviewed him actually eight times. Which leads me to believe. Trump's you knowing his wife as whole.

There were only seven videos out. So that means there might be one coming soon. I hope that means that there's one coming soon. We're going to another Mark Richards. We could use the Mark Richards up in our lives. Oh yeah, absolutely. But in the absence of a new Mark Richards episode, while she's trying to bring up Mark Richards,

she brings up a new piece of information that I think cannot be true. And he has family that were in Britain and actually specifically his father was known as the Dutchman. And so that the what you might say the occult that he as a boy was going to parties on Churchill's estates and there was a heavy duty. This is not widely known, but it is part of his work revealing that the whole ET thing was known by Churchill and members at that time. So Winston Churchill died in 1965.

Right. So Mark Richards as a boy went to parties with Winston Churchill, right? If that's true, then you know, I don't remember how old Mark Richards is. Let me do the math on this. He'd have to be 58 to be alive when Churchill was like had died. Yeah, I think that's possible. I think he might be over 50, but I don't think he could be much older than that, which means he's going to parties at Winston Churchill's estate when Churchill is a year from death. Yeah, I don't know about this.

Yeah, come on. Come on. I just Googled Mark Churchill. Wait, you don't think is Mark Richards real dad Winston Churchill and the Dutchman stole him from Winston Churchill when he died. So what he remembers is actually an idyllic childhood with his real father, Winston Churchill, whom we all remember as a great father, right above all else. And then the Dutchman stole him. I'm just stole him.

It's possible. This is an anesthesia situation all over again. I'm just trying to figure out Mark Richards age here, which is tough. So the the murder happened or the conviction happened in 1982. Right. And he was supposed to be like, what, 20, 20 something in 1982, which would make it 50 something. Yeah. So no, he was not alive.

The timeline is really tough for him to have partied as a kid at with Churchill. Also, I don't believe that just even if the timeline didn't work. Even if even if he lived in Britain at the time, because if we point that out, then Kerry just like, he is a time traveler. Oh, that's a good point. Shit. Forgot that he was a time. Of course.

That's right. Oh, damn it. Damn it. This is you win again. So where he carry this is bulletproof logic. Also, like if he partied with, you know, Winston Churchill with his dad, the Dutchman, when he was a wee lad. Why was he running like a tire shop when he committed the murder?

Why was he cover why? Why did why is that where he ended up cover for his time traveling and off world? Exactly. Yeah. If he if Minerva was a look, the only way that you can hide a sentient spacecraft is if you run a tire store, because then people wouldn't even be surprised by a sentient space spacecraft coming in and out of there. That's a tire shop. Yeah.

Where else would they be? You make a good point. Yeah. Also, it seems beyond credit credulity for me to accept that someone who is involved in the secret space program and going on these off world missions and his dad, the Dutchman, saved the world. The Dutchman. He needs a sting.

We need a we need a drone for him. The Dutchman. I find it almost impossible to believe that that person would organize a murder for like five grand or something like that. Yeah. Seems very difficult for me to believe that someone who is that important to the world would be in that kind of financial straits. He's framed.

He was framed, Dan. He's framed. So that's one of Kerry's big guys. Yeah. We know that. She tosses Mark Richards around a lot. Every goddamn episode. That's a lot.

Right, because she wants to impress these people and let them know that they're not talking to some slouch. Yeah. She knows Mark Richards personally. She goes to the prison and he trusts her. I really don't understand any of that, any of this world at all based just on that where even that guy's like, yes, I know his wife. Like what?

No, you shouldn't know any of this. He's on the circuit doing these weird like Awaken Aware conferences. Why is there a circuit? Because these people need to like, the con is not good enough if you just have a web show. I know. Like Kerry Cassidy makes a lot of money from doing Project Camelot, but like a lot of these other people don't make much on their show. Right, right.

So you need some place where they can come together and fleece people in one like big conference. Yeah. So it. Man, that's annoying. It's a little. It's like, it's like a. It's like a.

It's like a YouTuber convention. Yeah. It's like a down on his luck wrestler sign an audio autograph. Plenty of that. Yeah, exactly. Except for at least wrestlers did something real by which I mean perform fake stuff. Right. And they're more tragic figures generally than these con people because.

Right. They gave up their bodies to this art form of wrestling. Right. And a lot of them didn't know the consequences. So you see them now washed up and down on their luck and maybe addicted to pills. Yeah. And it's like, well. Probably a lot like Mark Richards.

I mean, I don't know. I mean, there's a robust drug trade in prison. Yeah, I bet he can get some pills. Yeah. Although I imagine more likely he was on speed and shit when he went in. Right. And maybe like his brain just hasn't regulated. That's also possible.

You know, he's like an addict without a drug. And now his addict, his addiction is manifest by lying to Kerry Cassidy. He's been drinking too much toilet wine. It could be, could be. So that's one of her sources. And in his next clip, she accidentally brings up another one and compares him to Helen Duncan, which I actually agree. They are very similar, but not in the ways that Kerry wants to.

They're both con people. Yeah. This guy is someone who I, she, Kerry has interviewed him a bunch of times. I've brought him up. And someone mentioned him in the Facebook group. Go home and tell your mother you're brilliant. Yeah. And they brought up a piece of information that I'll discuss here in a second.

I've been putting off doing a full episode about him because he is like, I would describe him as the big boss almost. The big boss. Yeah. Mark Richards is not difficult to get to the bottom of, you know, in the sense that like, we know that there's records of what he was doing and all this. She can say that he was off world at the time of the murder and all this shit. Who cares?

That's not that hard to get around. And his stuff is fun. He's talking about sentient spacecrafts and Raptor buddies who will kill you for chocolate. Definitely no tires. That's super fun. This guy, Sean David Morton, is so hardcore of a con man. Yeah. But he's not fun.

He's not as fun. Like there's no Raptors that there is, there are aliens and stuff like that, but it's not as whimsical and not as fun. So every time I've sat down to try and do an episode about him, which I think we will do in the future, it becomes very hard because it's like, I have to weed through so much bullshit in terms of like, okay, well, here's this. Here's where this is coming from. Yeah.

It's very difficult. He's tied a very tangled web indeed. Indeed. Yeah. And so some of that we'll discuss at the other end of this clip, but only because Kerry brings him up and it's pretty fucking funny. Okay. Well, there is another aspect to this that people may not have thought of that I

do look at, which has to do with Sean David Morton. I know this is going to sound extraordinary, but Sean David Morton is a psychic and has been proving this for many, many years. Doesn't sound true. And of course, very public person. And he got thrown in jail supposedly for overstepping certain investment laws or whatever associated with the SEC inquiry into some lot, some money that, and I was actually involved in a group that, and I lost money,

but I didn't blame Sean because I know sort of the mechanisms of what happened behind the scenes and so on. But I have to say that there were people that did. And I'm not sure whether that contributed to his being, him and his wife being thrown in prison. But I do know that he's writing a book that is disclosing the UFO story really historically going back through who was running Area 51, who was running the scene here on planet Earth in terms of the ET situation and so on.

And that this man, the story goes that there's a whistleblower who gave, had his lawyer give all his material to Sean and said, please turn this into fiction and, you know, and don't reveal who I really am. And then Sean wrote these three books called Sands of Time. Sean, on top of being psychic is doing, he's also working with this whistleblower, in essence, behind the scenes. And he has been thrown in jail. So what's fascinating about all of that is,

is the link up with what happened to Helen. Yes, they are both frauds. They both ran afoul of fraud laws. And you got frauded. Sean David Morton defrauded Carrie Cassidy. According to her partner, Bill Ryan, quote, Carrie lost about $116,000. What? She had $116,000 to begin with?

A major chunk of her mother's inheritance, which helps support our living expenses in the startup of Camelot. I got you. And I also lost $25,000. Not a penny has ever been returned. It's a story that's not been told. And this is from a- And yet it's a very old story.

It's a tale as old as time, you might say. Carrie likes to say that, or in that clip even, she said that what he did was run afoul of some investment laws. And that's not the full story. Hear this from an article about them. Quote, Two Hermosa Beach residents were taken into custody yesterday after being indicted by federal grand jury

on a host of charges related to a scheme to defraud the Internal Revenue Service, which included passing bogus checks and bonds as a way to pay off debt for themselves and others. Perfect. According to the superseding indictment, Sean David Morton filed a series of false income tax returns for the years 2005 and 2010

that sought millions of dollars in refunds. Melissa Morton allegedly filed several false tax returns for the year 2007. The indictment specifically alleges that Sean David Morton filed a false 2006 income tax return that requested a refund of $2,809,921. Wow. And that in 2012,

he filed a document that sought a tax refund of $1,560,634 for 2006. In relation to the scheme. Dream big, man. Yeah. Dream big. I love it. Shoot your shot.

In relation to the scheme, the indictment alleges that Sean David Morton on multiple occasions submitted to the IRS documents he called, quote, coupon for set off settlement and closure in the amounts of $5,286,867 and $8,429,673. These fictitious financial instruments

were purported bond in exchange for the refunds they sought from the IRS according to the indictment. Sean David Morton was certain he'd get away with this because he claims he's, quote, not a 14th Amendment citizen. This is all sovereign citizenship. They believe that the federal government doesn't have jurisdiction of stuff

and so he was certain that he'd go in court and be like, yeah, I did that. I'm just trying to get my money back that the government, sovereign citizens believe that there's a whole big pile of gold out there that belongs to all of us. And we are, if we just say the right words and file the right document.

Tubal came. The government has to give you that money that they have in, there's accounts for all of us. It's an escrow. Yeah. Yeah, there's accounts for all of us. Our human persons, not our corporate beings. Right, right.

And that if we just say the right things, the government's like, ah, damn it, we have to give you the gold. Right. And so he believed, he doesn't believe this, but he knew that he could do an elaborate financial scam and if it came down to it, he could claim this as some sort of reason why he did it

to make it seem like he's not a criminal. He's actually just someone who knows the truth and he knew he'd get in trouble and this is all horseshit. Is he still in prison? Oh yeah. Okay. How long is he gonna be in prison for? I think he's gonna be in for a while.

I think he might be in for a while. One year is gonna have to go interview him in prison. One day for every piece of gold that he wishes the government had given him. Absolutely. Yeah. And his wife is in prison too. Good.

So this is an interesting thing. God damn it, Kerry. I'm so disappointed in her. Right. If she- There's much better uses of $116,000 fucking dollars. Well, I mean, and if you get defrauded for that much money, at least give up on that guy.

Like that guy, you can still believe in everything else, but let that guy go. Yeah. Just be like, that guy's a liar. That guy's a fraud. Well, from Bill Ryan's description of how they lost the money, they claimed that it wasn't wrong doing by Sean David Morden. It was like negligence on his part

that led to them losing all that money. Blurg. He tells a version of the story that is not super compelling, but at the same time, I get how you could talk yourself into not blaming him, though you fucking should. Yeah. Especially when you look into the other extracurriculars

that he was up to, and you're like, oh, this guy is not a guy who's acting in good faith. Gotcha. He is a person who is operating very illegally. Yeah, but psychically. So now we have Mark Richards, who's in prison. Yes. We have Sean David Morden, who's also in prison.

Right. Both of them, both very credible sources. Now that leads to this revelation from Ben, not a revelation, but this thought. So I was in prison for a while. No, no, no. Okay. Not that he was in prison, but this thought is something

that he should do a little more examining. Okay. It is a strikingly odd situation. So many people ought to do the things that we do, end up in jail. And I'm just thinking Michael Schrimpton, I'm thinking James Casper, a whole list of people who somehow end up in jail

for one reason or another. Somehow. You know, it's not one reason or another. For one reason or another. It's generally fraud, except with Mark Richards, because that was conspiracy to commit a murder. You know, like, But also he probably committed fraud somewhere along the way.

Yeah. 00:55:07,840 --> 00:55:08,320 Yeah. The, oh, and he is now. Yeah, exactly. But the, the idea that like, we're all con, man. Why do we keep ending up in prison? Well, because what you're doing is illegal.

That's why I don't, I don't know. You have to go the next step on this thought. It's almost like lying to people and then taking their money for it is a bad thing. And I don't think that the government should be involved in that. Sure. Deregulation of liars. If you want to make that argument, that's more interesting.

That's true. Quite frankly. Wow. Because this is a, It depends. It depends on what class you are in. Regulating liars is not really something that we seem to do for rich. This is a pathetic angle, though.

Like the idea of like, why do all these people kept ending up in prison? It's like conspiracy. Why do a bunch of you not, you know, like. That's a better question, isn't it? If it was. Why aren't I in jail? Right.

If it was some sort of thing where it's like the government is really against the topics that we cover, why was Simon Parks in elected office? Why? Why is he not in prison? Why is Kerry? I'm sure she would make the argument. I'm too popular.

I'm too famous for them to take me down. That sort of thing. It's like I live in public and that's why they can't get me. You know what? All of these people, all of the guests that she has that aren't in prison should be in prison if their narrative was true at all. And it's not.

It's the specific people who go to prison are the people who are running giant cons or trying to get $8 million in fake tax returns. That would be great. That would be great. That's why people go to prison. If he had gotten it just because he filed the paperwork, he would be a hero of mine.

You son of a bitch. He would be a hero of mine. Write a fucking book about ghosts. Write a book about aliens. Pretend you're a whistleblower. Do it all day. No one cares. Trying to fraud millions of dollars from the government.

They're going to start caring. You know, it seems like a bad idea. Commit a murder. They're going to start caring. What should be an issue though, what they're not connecting that to, which is a bummer for me, is the obvious answer, if their narratives are true,

is not that they are too popular or too important. It's the exact opposite. No one's listening. They are only going. No, no, no. It's like they're only going after the people who are players in the game, which means you guys are fucking nothing.

Kerry Cassidy is probably more notable in this world than Sean David Morton, although Sean David Morton is a big deal. Yeah. Like if you know that world, he's a major player. Yeah. Like I've brought this up a bunch of times just because it's really funny.

He's the guy who ran that conspiracy cruise where he went on and then got arrested as soon as the boat docked. That was my favorite. That's my favorite story you've ever told. I know that vice sucks and all that, but I do recommend everyone watch the video of him dancing on the boat.

The smash cuts. The conspiracy cruise. Smash cuts to his screams as soon as the boat docked, Sean David Morton was arrested by federal agents. Hilarious. It's like, ooh, so glad you had fun on that boat. So good. So earlier, you were suggesting that Kerry

was trying to influence the narrative, much like she did with Eddie Page, the cuck of the racist alien world. The conspiracuck, if you will. No, the racist alien cuck. Oh, yeah, that's right. He was Kerry. Now, I don't agree with everything he says.

Yeah. He allowed Kerry to walk him down a path in order to change very essential pieces of his narrative. And you know what, I don't know if we just missed her doing that in the past with other guests, but she does try to do it here. You know what I think it is? Whenever we're doing a Mark Richards episode.

She's just talking. She's just talking. There's nobody to lead down the path. Now that we're doing guest episodes, we find out she's the evil mastermind behind all of this shit. That's why we suspected that she's leading Mark Richards or she's lying about what he's saying.

Yeah. She's making this thing up whole cloth. It's possible. But also, I mean, we did that episode with, I can't remember the guy's name. Or whole cheesecloth, as you will. It might have been the first episode we did, the one where it was about a super soldier space traveler guy.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the guy who was on Mars and then came back in time. Part of solar defense or whatever. I don't think, in my memory, maybe if I re-listened to that, I would notice it more. But I didn't think that Kerry was leading him. He seemed like in full control of the narrative. Yeah, I feel like we would have noticed.

Some of these guys are a lot softer. Like an Eddie Page is soft. And he can be pushed around. He's supposed to be racist. Now, it's interesting what happens here with this Ben Jones character, because Kerry tries that and it doesn't really work. All right.

But you can see Ben say one thing and then Kerry completely take it and try and mold it into what she wants it to be. Right. And we'll see what happens. Now, in your case, I sort of asked you this, but maybe I misunderstood when you were talking about in the documentary.

But I got the impression that you actually were told not to pursue the story by other people in your life, like at the time when you were thinking about pursuing it or something. Is that not true? Somebody, I can't remember who it was actually. But there was a, it was more than anything. I actually did say that this is something

not to get involved in. It's not, they didn't actually warn me or threaten me or anything like that. They just said, maybe this is not a good idea. So real quick, we'll get back to Kerry's response. But I would say that that's exactly what someone might have said to me when I started this podcast. But frankly, like a friend would be like, I don't know, Dan.

I think I said it to you. There's better uses of your time. That sort of thing. That's how I hear what he's saying. Someone, I don't remember who it was. They weren't threatening me or warning me. It was just like, maybe don't, don't do this. Don't waste your time.

Oh, I should do this. I should also say, he has a job. You know what his job is? No. He's a hospital porter. So, so, I don't know what that means. I'll explain in a second. We had a custodian dishwasher for NASA recently show up

on Kerry's show because he had invented a warp drive that the government was trying to suppress. Of course. And now we have a hospital porter, which it's, it's variable what a porter could be. It could be a nurse's assistant. It's somebody who moves things. It could be a nurse's assistant or it could be a janitor.

It could be anywhere in that realm in a hospital. So, he's just a guy who works at a hospital and he's got a night gig. Or he built porches. Right. So, some friend of his, maybe another orderly at the hospital or something like that told him, man, I don't know.

This seems like, seems like, seems whack for you to get into. But here's what Kerry responds to that very benign. I wasn't threatened. I wasn't warned. I don't think that's significant or not. It is. It is to me, these kinds of things that don't overlook this kind of thing because it's so interesting.

It interests me because it's so many years later that they wouldn't want to reveal this, which of course makes me all the more interested in. So, real quick, she's already changed what he has just said. Yeah. They don't want this looked into. That wasn't what he said at all. She's already moved the goalposts

within like 10 words. Yeah. She's a pro. In it, because again, the parallels to our times and to the way they also stigmatize a conspiracy theorist. So, now she's trying to argue that Sean David Morton is innocent because of the parallels with this story

when she's lying about the story and lying about what happened when Ben decided to get into this. Which is why she had him on in the first place. Most likely. Yeah. You know, per se. They're trying to classify that person as being crazy.

They've actually, although they have done some tests, apparently on some of us, and found out that we have higher IQs than the normal people out there. Sure. It's just so normal. The human being should. So, that should kind of allay any sort of skepticism

right in there. Sure doesn't. But it doesn't, of course. No, it doesn't. There are so many aspects to this. I guess there's also various religions. There are some religions that don't allow for this kind of psychic perception.

Certainly not mediumship. Like Christianity. The life after death question is always a very important part of the mediumship aspect. So, you know, it gets into that as well. The mediumship is his next cruise by hand. But in terms of your own sort of trajectory, so you were warned slightly somehow

in various ways against doing this, but you continued to pursue it, correct? Yeah, I didn't consider it very serious at the time. I can't even remember who these people were. But then it wasn't a warning as such. It's just several people thought this was something I should pursue. So, he's not budging that much.

He didn't reframe it by saying I didn't think it was serious at the time. At the time, yeah. So, he's already coming a little bit over, but I believe that it is sincere that he wasn't being warned because he's standing by that. Right.

He's not trying to make the argument that like, hey, a guy in a fucking trench coat came to my door and said, lay off on the Helen Duncan business. I don't know how much I like evil mastermind, Carrie. I'm not a fan. This was much more fun whenever she was just so willing to believe everything.

And now this is turned. This is turned into something different. Remember there was a time when we were just Alex as an idiot kind of thing? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was a little more fun. And now we see the white nationalist. Now it's very Macherevellian.

There we go. Yeah. So, once you see the real picture of these people, the face drops a little bit, you start to get a picture of like, oh, this is really the game they're playing. It's much more sinister. Very disappointing.

And much more controlling the narrative than we like to imagine. She's not a reporter. She's writing a book in real time and forcing other weirdos into her. She's trying to dungeon master this whole thing. 100%. That's the perfect metaphor.

So, we didn't hear about this earlier, but in the beginning of this episode, Kerry teased that Helen Duncan's granddaughter was going to call in. No. So, the medium. Is she dead? No, she.

Well, that would be a way better way for her to call in. Her granddaughter is alive. That would be way better for her granddaughter to call in. It still wouldn't prove shit to me. No. But so, Helen Duncan. The cheese cloth madam.

Oh, yeah. Her granddaughter calls in. And this is not to be believed. This show, there's only a few clips left. But boy, howdy. This is wild. Wait, does she? We are going to start to connect some weird pieces of this

spider web that could not possibly be imagined. So, here is just the beginning of Maggie, the granddaughter, calling in. Uh-huh. And I get really sad that her name is Maggie, because it makes me think of that great Colin Hay song, Maggie. It's a great song.

Sure. Hi, Maggie. How are you? Hi, Maggie. Hi. Am I on live? Yes, you're on the show here. Your voice is...

Oh, okay. Anyway. Hi, everybody. Hi, Maggie. Hi, sweetheart. How are you? I'm all right, thanks. How are you feeling?

I guess I can't watch the show, because now I'm on the show. Right. And that would interfere if you try to watch the show. So, it's probably better if you don't. But you can watch later. Yeah. And see how you did.

Yes, everybody. That's very funny. I like how she says, and see how you did. And it's a weird way to phrase it. Oh, Maggie, hey, what am I to do? All right. How can I live with only a memory of you? All right, Dan.

It's a great song. She has nothing to say. You just wanted to sing that song. No, she has a lot to say, but I also want to sing that song. Okay. It's a fucking great song. So, Dan, I love...

I'm starting to enjoy it. I begin some feedback. People are liking whenever I start talking music. So, I feel like I should talk a little more about Maggie. Great song. Makes me tear up. All right. Beautiful song about childhood love that went a rally.

This is... Look, this is not a Dan reviews music show. All right. It's a great song. Everyone check out Maggie. All right. All right. So, now we can glean that this dude has talked to her granddaughter,

of course. Of course. So... No, 100%. That's why... That's not why we're getting... Yeah. No, that's...

I just didn't know. I thought it was gonna... I almost thought it was gonna be a blind call. But now, obviously, that's a stupid thing to think about. No, no, no. He's making a documentary about her grandmother. Yeah. I legit did not cross my mind.

She's the only family member or any person involved with all this stuff who is in contact with this Ben Jones. Right. So, I'll tell you what, that's not the only reason she's on this show. I don't even know how to set up this clip, because it's one of the weirdest things I've ever... This is a long clip, but mic down, because we are... This is lore here.

Okay. All right. This is insane backstory. We get answers to questions we didn't know we had. And then we get a reveal at the end of this clip that is unbelievable. And it implies a couple of things that are deeply problematic. And also make... Stop setting it up.

Let's play the clip. It also makes the story of Helen Duncan so much more robust, but also Carrie doesn't want to go there. Okay. She's not interested in that. Okay. And I would just want to... I was just saying that could you explain how you got me connected with Eddie Page

was because you're still in touch with your grandmother? Is that right? My grandmother is one of my guys. All right. I researched my grandmother. Here's what happened. I stayed away from... He doesn't understand.

My grandmother was killed. In 1956. I got to come in real quick. We'll get back to what she was saying. The argument that a lot of these people have is that Helen Duncan was killed because the police raided one of her seances because she promised we're not going to do this anymore. And then she started doing it again on the low.

Right, right, right. She was conning people and they're like, God damn it, we told you not to do this. Right. And so the argument goes that she... Because she was interrupted in the middle of a trance when she was getting ectoplasm out, that the ectoplasm burned her.

And it caused like... Serious esophageal damage. Exactly. And then she died. And because it was interrupted, she ended up dying months later. Of course. Because of it.

That makes perfect sense. This is horse shit. She was a... As we've already noted that review of one of her seances very rudely called her fat, but she was a very unhealthy woman. It was the 20s. Right.

And when they did an autopsy on there, they found that she had a history of heart damage. So like the idea that she died at like... So she died of a broken heart. More or less. From her seances. Being interrupted. Exactly.

Yeah. It was not... So you've only validated her argument more. No. Because our argument is that she was burned by this ectoplasm because you can't interfere with someone in the middle of vomiting up cheesecloth. And I do...

Well, I really do believe the authorities played a big part in her death. So I stayed away from this stuff for many, many, many years. I wanted nothing to do with spiritualism. I wanted nothing to do... Nothing to do with any of it. And what happened is I just kept having an overwhelming sense that I had to look into my grandmother.

I had to find out the truth. And I said, okay, you know what? I'll look into it. Let the cards follow where they may. If she was abroad, I could accept that. I don't believe that for a second. If she was genuine, I can accept that. I spent 30 years researching her life.

And she was genuine. She had... We were brought up as kids that she had a different God. So getting to Eddie Page, here's what happened. As I was in the UK... I'm British, even though I don't sound it. I am definitely... I'm Scottish.

And 2013, I was back home. I sat with the medium. My grandmother came through. And my grandmother gave me some personal messages. And she said to me, you're going to find out where you come from. And I said, what does she mean by that? I had no idea.

I thought it had to... Honestly, I thought it had... Because I had been researching our family tree. So that's what I thought it had to do with. And didn't pay much attention to it. And then 2015, I met Eddie. And so I spent some time with Eddie. I've reviewed all the documents.

Actually, I'm the one that's responsible for Eddie. And I do say my brother, because I carry the same bloodline as him. She's an alien? She's a Pleiadian. She's a Pleiadian? She's a Pleiadian. Oh my God!

She's a Pleiadian. Is this Carrie, apparently? I did not know that. That I did not see coming. Wild. Is she also a racist? Maybe. She must be.

She's responsible for Eddie, so she's responsible for some racism. Jesus. Holy shit. Can you believe this? Holy shit. This backstory is amazing. What?

Helen Duncan. This crazy con woman fraud from the 20s. Her granddaughter starts getting into trying to figure out her family's history. Ends up accidentally running into Eddie Page. The two of them get together and be crazy together. And then she encourages him to go public with his stories. Or what have you. She ends up hooking up Carrie Cassidy with Eddie Page,

resulting in the episodes that we went over and listened to, where he's a fucking big old racist alien. Then she comes on here in the episode about Helen Duncan, and reveals, she's a Pleiadian. Everyone's a Pleiadian. It's crazy. I am so happy. That is the best.

That's the best. It's it cannot do better. That is. There's no way that of all of all the crazy things that I know could have happened. Right. Because the the there's no end of the possibilities. Sky's the limit. That would never have shown up.

No. Bluest of the blue sky thinking. That would never have shown up. Oh, of course. The granddaughter of a con woman is also a Pleiadian. What? Which? Fantastic.

Which introduces, raises the question. Who's her? But who's he? Yeah. Was her, was her grandma a Pleiadian? Exactly. Her grandma was a Pleiadian. Maybe.

I mean, there's no way to know when it started. That's true. That's a good point. Could have been, could have been that. But Eddie Page said that there's only like 10 or 11 in existence. No, no, no, no, no, no. There's a bunch of them, but not his brothers and sisters. So what she's implying there when she, because she does say,

I call him my brother. Because they're both Pleiadians. Which would suggest that maybe she's one of the ones from his family or whatever. Yeah, he knows 10 or 11. But there are, even according to Eddie, there's more Pleiadians than just those 11 or whatever. Okay. So, let me.

You gonna talk this out? First, first question. How do you spend 30 years researching Helen Duncan? When like even an hour or two will get you to like. Exactly. She threw up cheesecloth and refused to submit to any real tests. Yeah. Very, very short amount of research necessary.

I suppose if you're only looking for research that proves she's real, it's going to take 30 years to get anything. Oh, you're going to run into a lot of dead ends. You're going to run into a lot of dead ends. Yeah, you're going to be like, you're going to need some weird ass documentarian to meet up with you after you've encouraged a racist to call himself a Pleiadian. And then, no, because then you know what happened. You know what happened.

The same thing fucking happened to her that happened to Carrie. She was finally challenging Eddie Page on some bullshit. And he was like, holy shit, you're a Pleiadian too. Yes. That is exactly what happened. 100%. So she was meeting Eddie Page. She was talking about her story with Eddie.

Eddie got back into a corner. Exactly. Because he is fucking weak sauce and personified. Oh yeah. He's a limp noodle of a racist. Oh yeah. Yeah. He's weak as fuck.

So then he calls her a Pleiadian and she's crazy enough because she's somehow also been conned by her dead grandmother. How many people has her dead grandmother conned from beyond the grave? Well, so far three and they're all on this show. That's a good point. Because Eddie Page might not believe it. He might just be a gifted opportunist. So man, I was like, when I was getting this episode ready, I thought it was really funny

as I listened to it that like they are so incredulous and just they're like, oh yeah, absolutely. Despite all evidence to the contrary. Literally all the evidence. They believe in this magical seance woman. But then when it got towards the end and I heard that, I was like, oh baby. Oh, that's amazing. I did not see that coming.

She's responsible for Eddie Page being in our world, which we got to thank her and castigate her. Yeah, yeah. But then also, I wonder so much about this because it's, you know, I don't believe, I don't necessarily believe that there's something magical about like really weird coincidences. But her meeting Eddie Page, if it wasn't like some sort of conference they were at, is pretty weird because Eddie Page does have videos of himself from back in like the 90s and hypnotic regression shit talking about aliens.

Stuff like that. Like there was evidence that he's been around for a while on this tip for a long time. And so like the idea that someone with just enough evidence from the satanic panic era that he is not really used yet. And the granddaughter of a famous con woman would end up meeting each other in England. God, are they married? They should be. They should be married.

There's no doubt they'd be the worst children. Oh God, but they'd be so dumb. The biggest liars. They would be the dumbest children. Racist ass liars. I don't know, man. It's awesome. But here's the thing.

Movie pitch. We find out that the granddaughter of, let's go with Matahari. Why not? Sure. All right. Granddaughter of Matahari falls in love with the grandson of Ian Fleming. But it turns out that both of them are simultaneously spying on each other. No, I think I just wrote Mr. and Mrs. Smith.

Kind of. But we could remake that. So a couple other celebrities who are really hot could get together. It's very exciting. So Mr. and Mrs. Smith, any time you make it, we're going to fuck. It's just too sexual of an intellectual property. It's a great, great intellectual property. It's much like.

That's my new pickup line. Hey, you want to make Mr. and Mrs. Smith together? That's not a bad pickup line. So we might be sitting here and saying like, all right, Eddie Page told her that she's a pleading, which I think is an amazing theory. But unfortunately, it's not true. There's proof. I had some blood work done.

So I said, could you please check my blood type? And I had my blood checked and sure enough, I'm one of them. Right. So even at the end, Gary is like, I don't want to talk about this. I don't want to throw back another goddamn thing. I'm pleading and showing up on my show. Pleadians, sure, sure. Move along.

Next one, we're talking about Helen Duncan. Not you. Right. This isn't about you being an alien. Yeah. Man, it's awesome. This is like, I love the way that the like, if you listen to this show of this project, Camelot episode, you just hear stray names and not really know so much.

But because we've started covering a bunch of this, there's so much robust lying that's going on. Sestuous community. It really is. It really is. They all fucking know each other. There's a lot of liars propping each other up. And the reason is because they know, we all know we're lying. We're not going to call each other out on this very, very clearly thin soup that we're selling.

Yeah. It's great. That is, oh, it's, it's such a, it's such a, it's a lot like the promise. This, I'm going to blame all of this on Iron Man. All right. Because Iron Man popularized the Marvel universe and that led to all of these team ups happening. This predates that. This is all Iron Man's fault.

I'm going to blame Iron Man for this. PC project Camelot predates this. Yeah, but I don't care. Predates the MCU. Yeah, but they haven't fucking, it doesn't predate the MCU. Yeah, I think it does. The MCU has been around for this since the 40s. I mean the cinematic universe.

Fine. That's what I'm talking about. Fine. That's what the C in that is. They have been made. You dick. You fucking asshole. Oh, you're right.

That's exactly right. I am an asshole. That's my bad. That's my bad. You're trying to throw a nerd shit at me. I just assumed that it was Marvel entirely. I did not even consider it. My bad.

What? No, no, no, no. I'm an asshole. I also get a minus one for a minus one for a second. I'm getting myself a minus one. I think that's a minus three. Minus three. It goes against your character.

God damn it. It's Iron Man's fault all over again. Perhaps. So man, this is great. I love this stuff. This is great. I love this because there's no stakes. You know, like when we're talking about,

unfortunately we found a couple of like fairly heavy episodes of Jim Baker, like with Paula White Kane is like the reality of the influence in the world is kind of a bummer even if we're talking about a guy selling food buckets. So that's not even much of a retreat necessarily from the world. But like getting a juicy episode of Project Camelot is such. The sweetest of fruits. It's just such a delight. There's no stakes.

It's just a walk in the park laughing at weirdos. And we don't even have a racist this time, although she is a suspected racist until proven otherwise. We do have implications of her facilitating a racist. Yeah. So that's, which is, which might as well be the same thing. The more you know, if you're, if you're propping up racists, then you at the very least sympathize with them in a way that condemns you.

Yeah. So at the end of the day, let alone if you're a Pleiadian racist at the end of the day, I find no evidence from this episode that they present that like Helen Duncan was framed. No evidence that Ian Fleming was even involved in the case. No evidence that Churchill was fucking involved in the case. No evidence that she had any real gifts that weren't sleight of hand or weird cons like throwing something up in a cabinet.

Yeah. You know, like all this stuff is just this awesome remnant of the past, which is not to discount her. No. If she was running, if she was running a scam like that and pulling it off, good on her. That's worthy of a documentary praising her. To some extent, I agree with you. I think, I don't know, man.

I go back and forth on it because I do think that it does indicate a really high intellect and it indicates cunning, that sort of thing. Cunning, I would say more than intellect. I think you have cunning and creativity. I think I always think that cleverness is kind of a part of intellect. Yeah, I think it's a form of intelligence. And so I'll give her like, she's high functioning, especially for the time. Oh yeah, for sure.

Being able to be like, get out of the box that society would probably want her to be in and live like that, I do tip my hat to that. But at the same time, I am living a life and my entire work is dedicated to laughing and pointing the finger at these frauds. So it's difficult for me to be like, just because it was a woman in the 1920s, 1930s doing the con, it doesn't really work for me as much as I want to be super into like elevating class and like disenfranchised social groups, stepping out of their boundaries. I do support that.

But at the same time, because it leads to fraud, I have to be against it. You know what? I don't know. What I want to know is a detailed list of her clients, because if she's robin hooding, if she's only defrauding rich old ladies, I'm fine with that. But if she's defrauding like regular people, then she can go fuck herself. I'm pretty positive from everything I looked into is a lot of very normal people. Well, then that's no good.

Now I'm against her. I want the Robin Hood cons. That's what I want. I want her to go around to like like the John David Morton stealing from Kerry Cassidy. It's like, well, that's low stakes. Yeah, you got it. You got it coming, man. One good turn deserves you losing $113,000.

$16,000. That's also, yeah, it's like the bitter fruit of the pool you swim in. Live by the con, die by the con. That's why that's how it works. Yeah. So I don't know. I don't know if we come away with any larger truth there. Everything's fun.

Sure. Anyway, guys, if you like the show, please do check out our website, KnowledgeFight.com. Indeed. You can also follow us on Twitter at Knowledge on Facebook Fight. Correct. We're on Facebook. We are. You can go home and tell your mother you brought it.

Great Facebook group. 01:25:19,600 --> 01:25:26,880 Also, if you're still listening, if you like have liked our site on Facebook, like if you've liked Knowledge Fight, please just join the group. I don't know how to say this without being really blunt about it, but like the way Facebook works, if I post something to the group, 30 of our fans will see it or something like that unless I pay them to promote the content. In the group, everyone sees it.

It works differently. The way things go, the way things are distributed in the group, people see things. So if you actually want to keep up with the show, the group, go home and tell your mother you're brilliant is the way to do it. Our Facebook page is largely inactive and inert because it bums me out really hard when no one sees any of the shit that we post. So I just never post anything on there. It's kind of a dead page.

Right. The group is where all the action's at. Go home and tell your mother you're brilliant. It is a private group, but if you request to join, we'll get you, we just let people in. And that's a message even to the info warriors or even Alex, if you're listening, we'll just let you in who gives a shit. Although you're still on your suspension. We will kick you out.

We will kick you out. So if you want to, I have emailed and direct messaged and all this shit, like 10 million fucking journalists. You're acting like this is the first time. I've done this a couple of times in the past as well. No, but no one gives a shit. It's so many. It's so many.

So many no answers. Like even when I was, even I was trying to not even polite. We're not interested. Uh-huh. Zero response from anybody. And I was talking about what this Nate Burroughs came over the other night to pick up some shit he'd left in the house. He was asking how things are going.

I'm like, well, you know, we found a lot of stuff out that's really interesting, but no one cares. And he's like, well, you know, it does sound crazy. I'm like, yeah, absolutely. That's the point. We send messages to people and it does make sense that they would not respond. Right. No, of course.

It makes sense that they be like, oh, this is a crazy person. They have no reason to think that we actually look into things. No, of course not. And have an even keel on it. No, we talk to people who cover or I email and direct message people who cover Alex Jones. And even they have to be like, man, these guys are probably crazy. They're probably doing. Yeah.

Yeah. But at the same time, they don't cover him the same way we do. So it makes sense. This is a differing of philosophies. Yeah. I'm bummed out more by this. And like whenever I used to try and get published as a writer, whenever I was like 19 and 20 and I was sending out all of these short stories,

at least I would get a rejection letter. Yeah. Yeah. Like if you guys want to bother all the people that I've messaged enough for them to send me no. And then I'll feel. And anyone who's written for like right wing watch about Alex Jones, anyone who's right writes for media matters about them, please feel free not to harass them. No, don't harass them.

But like. But send them a message. Let them know we're not crazy. Give them some, give them some grounds well. But then the other. Or don't. We're, we're bad at this. Yes.

Okay. Please don't go out of your way to do anything. Supporting the show. Don't go out of your way to do anything. The other thing too that I feel very different about it, like the, the, just the, like the emotional sensation of it is like when I used to run comedy shows and I'd send out like press releases and try and get press for the comedy show or whatever. Yeah.

Whenever I didn't get a response, I was like, well, yeah, this is like the events page of Metro Mix or the reader. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm like every goddamn comedy show is probably sending them a boilerplate trash. Right. And I understand why no one would respond. It feels different now because I know it's probably not the case, but it feels personal. It feels like they think we're crazy.

Yeah. And that, that to me is such a bummer. Like if you guys would just like engage a tiny bit with what, like what we're trying to bring to the table, you'd see like, no, we're not people who think that he works for Israel. Right. We're not people who like go down the dumb paths. Just, just want to help. You know, it's, it's actually what's crazy is I didn't even consider that angle.

I always thought like a legit, I kept thinking, oh, they're not responding because they're not interested. It never occurred to me that they're not responding because anybody who messaged them about Alex Jones is probably crazy. Yeah. Of course they're not responding. That's absolutely. Never mind.

I retract that statement. Congratulations to everybody who has not responded to me. You have learned your lesson. Well, unfortunately you missed the boat this one time. Well, and the boat will keep on getting missed. Ain't that the truth? It's some other thought, but I lost it. Oh, that, I got it.

So some people have pointed out that Kelly, Alex's ex-wife has been on a bunch of shows lately. She was on the Stuttering John podcast. She gets to go on shit and nobody, ah, fucking Christ. That's not what I'm talking about. Yeah. No, that's what I'm talking about. You go talk about what you, there have been some implications of like,

she's been on a lot of shows. She could come on yours. No. Right. I want to be clear without saying anything too specific or anything. She would have come on our show, but I decided it wasn't good for either of us. We never were really in like close contact, but that she, I know for sure she would have come on our show.

And I made an executive decision that it wasn't good for our show. It wasn't good for her. The goals that she's trying to achieve, I would much sooner talk to Larry Nichols again or try and find Hamamoto. I want to find Hamamoto now. I think we could get Hamamoto. I think we could get him. We got a burrito if you're out there.

Get me Hamamoto. You've been very good at finding people's information. For no reason that we can think of, never mind. See if you can find out Hamamoto. Anyway, Jordan, this has been a lot of fun. This has been a lot of fun. I think we got to end this and it is your turn. Oh man.

Well, there aren't any heroes. I know who I would say, but it's on you. I would say that the guy who ran a cruise comes to mind. Yeah, but I'm really hoping that he's going to put that second cruise together and call it medium ship. I do like that name. That sounds like a good name. I did silently laugh when you said that.

I don't want to ruin that possibility. If he hears about this, he's not going to take my idea to make the medium ship. And he's going to be very offended that I told him to go fuck himself. And it would be great if it wasn't a super large ship. I think if there was a lot of words. But it would also be great if it wasn't too small. Exactly. Right in the middle.

Somewhere in the middle. You could call it the mean ship as well. Sure. Man, I'm going to go with, you know what? I think the true villain always comes back. I'm going to go fuck yourself, Mark Richards. Hey, look out for Raptors. Andy and Kansas, you're on the air.

Thanks for holding. Hello, Alex. I'm a first-time caller. I'm a huge fan. I love your work. I love you.