Knowledge Fight - #267: December 16, 2012

Episode Date: February 22, 2019

Today, Dan and Jordan continue their investigation into how Alex Jones behaved in the immediate aftermath of Sandy Hook. In this installment, Alex has had a few days to regroup after the shock of dealing with the breaking news while on air. Will that affect how he carries himself?

Andy and Kansas, you're on the air. Thanks for holding. Hello, Alex. I'm a first-time caller. I'm a huge fan. I love your work. I love you. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to Knowledge Fight. I'm Dan. I'm Jordan. We're a couple dudes like to sit around, drink novelty beverages, and talk a little bit about Alex Jones. Oh, indeed we are, Dan.

Jordan. Dan. Jordan. What was the longest you've had to go without hot water? I don't know. I can't imagine it's been long. I mean, I've been in the woods for a couple days and stuff like that, like camping and stuff like that.

But even those times, I think, you know, you could go a ways away and find a shower or hot or something. Right, right, right. Yeah, they usually have those in a campsite. I'm not talking about going to a KOA. I mean, like camping in the wood woods. Oh, in the wood woods. Yeah, but I still think maybe a day, maybe.

I don't know. I've never camped in the woods. No. No. You got to do it. I don't think so. Got to do it. No, it's scary out there.

So fun. KOA. It's like living in a hotel, but you bring your own room. That's garbage. One time. So every year for the summer, my parents and I and my brother, we would drive across country to visit our relatives in California and my parents would never pay for hotels.

So along the way, we'd have to camp and get to camp. Cause sometimes you'd be at a national park and stuff like that. And that was great. But sometimes we would end up at KOA. Just on the side of the road. Yeah. We were at one and we were like, I was just like, I wanted a fucking hotel because it had been like two days we've been on the road or so.

And I just fucking tired of these campsites as we go to a KOA place and we were all, my dad's all like setting up the tent and he's all excited about like, ah, this is, this is great. Isn't it? Oh man. He's the dad from Calvin and Hobbes. There is a little bit of that streak, but he's excited about the like nailing in the stakes and the tent and stuff.

And I point over to just behind some bushes and I'm like, dad, that is a shopping mall. We are feet away from a shopping mall. This is not camping. He got really sour about that. Yeah. That doesn't, that kind of takes the wind out of your sales there. Yeah. But then another time we were at an actual like out in the woods, woods kind

of camp place and a moose wandered into the campground. Oh, that's, that's intense. Yeah. That's scarier than you think. Yeah. No, absolutely. They're fucking huge or a lot bigger. Yeah.

They're, they're a well, like their shoulders are well above your height. Everybody, well, especially at that age, just probably like 12 or something. Everybody likes to think of like bullwinkle and stuff. Right. Real moose. Anyway, it's been, I don't think I've gone a long time without hot water. It's been since Monday and it won't be until Friday for me. Wait, let me walk that back.

I live in an apartment now with very inconsistent hot water. Well, yeah. So I think I kind of have been living for two years at least not on demand. Yeah. In my old place, there were plenty of winters where a, the dude entirely wouldn't work for me. It was even in the like fall and summer. Yeah.

Like it's not about the pipes. Oh man. It's just about this stupid building. That's why I've got to move. Ah, she'll be anyway. I know a lot about Alex Jones and I know a lot about cold water, especially but I don't know anything about Alex Jones and head is our show are fun. We talk about water and Alex Jones.

That's what we do. Uh, we got an episode to do here today. I think it'll be some fun, but before we get to it, got to give a shout out to some new folks who signed up and are supporting the shows. So first of all, I'd like to say thank you to Jose. You're now a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Jose next. Phantom T. You're now a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thank you very much. Phantom T. That sounds like a partner for Master P.

It could be. Yeah. It could have been one of the no limits soldiers. Absolutely. Smoking on that dojo. That would have been great. Yeah. Also, Nathan, not so much of a good rap pain, but a great name nonetheless.

Famous hot dogs. Nathan. Thank you. I'm a policy wonk. Thank you very much, Nathan. Next, Ben. Thank you so much. You are now a policy wonk.

I'm a policy wonk. Thank you very much, Ben. Finally, I'd like to say thank you to somebody who elevated on a little bit of a higher level and we appreciate it also very much. So Jay, you are now a technocrat. I'm a policy wonk. Four stars. Go honky a month and tell it you're brilliant.

Someone, someone Sodomite sent me a bucket of poop daddy shark. Jar Jar Binks has a Caribbean black accent. He's a loser little, little titty baby. I don't want to hate black people. I renounce Jesus Christ. Thank you so much, Jay. Thank you very much, Jay. If you're out there listening and you're thinking, hey, I'd like to sport this

show. These guys are pretty all right in my book. They admit when they don't know what a rock or a bark is. God damn it. You're killing me with this. Hey, I made what they said. Just poking you where you tend to, uh, you could do that by, uh, you can support us by going to knowledge fight.com.

Clicking that button says support the show. We would appreciate it. Please do. So Jordan, on our last episode, we started our Sandy Hook investigation and I warned you that there was a decent chance. I was just going to barrel through. Right. And I have today.

We're going to be going over December 16th, uh, 2012. And that is because the 15th was a Saturday. Alex had no show. So he had some time to regroup, figure out what his narrative was going to be because we, I know, uh, that, uh, it would be wrong to say anything too definitive, but you saw a lot of, uh, oh, and on, uh, Wednesday's episode, a lot of trying to figure out where he was going to land on things. It was all the arrows pointing to Bugs Bunny, Bugs Bunny's whole whole time.

Yeah. And nothing helps resolve that sort of thing like a day off. So I assumed that, you know, the Sunday show, we're going to come in. He's going to have his narrative together and we'll find out if that's the case, uh, here on today's episode. Um, I opted not to do a present day episode mostly because I don't care. Um, it's just traumatic. I don't care.

I just assumed he did a Bernie Sanders impression Bernie announced. So of course he's. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. I don't really have a whole lot of intellectual curiosity or even narrative puncturing curiosity about whatever he's saying now. Like if Roger actually goes to jail early, we might check in.

Oh, that'd be fun. Or, you know, we'll check in down the line. I'm not saying I'm abandoning the present, but it just does not hold as much interest or, uh, like priority to me as some of these other things. And we aren't, we are not, uh, or we cannot allow ourselves to be, uh, uh, slaves to the whim of whatever's happening. Right. You know, like we can't, we can't be following in his wake if we want

to do the show that we want to do. So we're not a monster of the week show, man. No, we don't do that. We're not ex files. We will do, uh, present day episodes, uh, eventually, maybe even next week. It's entirely possible, but this is what I'm so much more interested in right now and will be, uh, where, where I spend more of my time. We're breaking bad.

This is a, we're, we're in bottle episode territory. Bottle month. Yeah. Just all this Sandy Hooks. Oh boy. And so, uh, I gave this caveat at the beginning of Wednesday's episode that, uh, that episode wasn't too bad. Um, and I'll say that I don't think that this one is even too bad.

I don't think he's gotten too bad yet. He's bad, but he's not too bad. So don't expect him to like be throwing around anything that will be. I don't know what is exactly something that would be traumatic for someone to hear, but I don't think he gets into any of that territory here on this show. So we're safe in terms of disgust. This is almost going to make the hammer drop even more horrific.

I think that what we find in this episode makes it so much more depressing that we know where it ends up. No. So anyway, uh, in this first clip, uh, we get where Alex is, uh, starting off the show and by this point, they've found out that it is Adam Lanza who was the perpetrator of the shooting because by Sunday, a lot of information has come out. There's reporting on it.

And so here's Alex's take on it and what he thinks is the most important piece. Well, let's be clear here. Ladies and gentlemen, wild horses could not pull me away on this Sunday. I like that. I like that. He said that as if he had time traveled and listened to our episode where I was like, I'm sure he wished he didn't show up that open Sunday

shows like wild horses could keep me for this day. And I almost heard him say Dan at the end of that. She doesn't speak much for my mental state. Worldwide broadcast. Thank you so much for joining us today. And we are going to be here for the next two hours. Obviously Friday morning, we had the Connecticut mass shooting, 20 dead children, seven dead adults.

We now have at least the mainstream media's image after blaming his brother and others. We have a mainstream media report on who supposedly did this. And we're going to be breaking down. But today I want to drill into not just the people attacking the second amendment savagely and viciously right now and the attacks that we're now seeing entered in legislation, but also via executive order that Obama is talking about outside of law restricting our guns.

I want to look at the psychology of the control freaks throughout history that always seek to disarm the people. So this is what he's more interested in. I think the supposedly the mainstream media is saying it's him. I don't know. I think it's still on the cusp of being inappropriate. I mean, I think it's probably inappropriate, but supposedly is inappropriate.

I don't think it's monstrous yet at this point. And no, that's the question we're going to have to keep coming back to is like, is this monstrous? Right. And I think because of the initial speculative inaccurate reports that were coming out, I think to a certain extent a day, a day and a half, two days later, you could still have like, we might get more information on this and it might end up that this is wrong also.

Right. But that's just a function of reporting and it being a developing story, not of a cover up or anything like that, which is what he's sort of suggesting. It's not as monstrous as William Happer leading a climate change panel. You know what I'm saying? No, you're not happy about that.

He might have popped up. I believe he popped up in my episode. I think I believe so. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 00:10:29,900 --> 00:10:31,300 I think that's not a good sign.

Yeah. I don't. I don't think that bodes well for the climate that is a change. And no, no, it does not. So like I said, I think that that's still kind of like meh. I don't like the idea that he wants to spend most of the rest of his show talking about the psychology of gun grabbers. Right.

That seems like the wrong use of time. Could be it might. It might be the wrong thing to focus on. Imagine if Obama had declared a national emergency in order to get gun laws passed. Oh boy. So in this next clip, though, you hear Alex say something that is very comforting at the beginning of the clip and then wander

into very unterritory that doesn't inspire confidence, but it starts pretty well. If you believe the official story and I tend to only because this fits in with the real because there's been some stage ones that even come out before like sir, hand, sir, hand other events, but when you have a real mass shooting like this, it's always the same thing. Almost every case.

It's a white male, white, sometimes Hispanic or Asian. If you just want to profile it from a law enforcement perspective. Okay. Just almost unheard of to have a black mass shooter for whatever reason. I'm just just profiling here. Almost always everybody Caucasian 25, 25, generally even closer to 20 and normally they are mentally ill.

They've normally been in psychiatric care. A lot of times it is something I've dealt with their whole life. Autism, of course, has gone from one in 25,000 30 years ago to one in 58. Now, according to the British Medical Journal and the medical journals here in the United States, we have similar numbers. What they have in England. You can debate whether it's one in 37 or one in 120, but the

numbers globally in the Western world are settling in at about one in 58. This is just a name of all sorts of people brain damaged in utero from different chemicals and things that are in the food chain and then things that they also get once they're born. And of course, they're on his album like a selective lobotomy. So I don't like that characterization of people who are

on the autism spectrum. First of all, and then second of all, that clip is to me the path of Alex Jones because it starts with if you believe the official story and I tend to, which is good, which doesn't sound accurate though. It's not great. That is not a good reporting, right? But at least he is indicating that I think this might be real.

But then when he starts giving his reasons for why he thinks it might be real, he's like, because of vaccines, turning everyone into autistic people. Yeah, that's not great damage to then go kill people. That's not great. No, the path is very bad. Yeah. The beginning point is it's right there close to acceptable.

He just doesn't know where to end a thought. Yeah. If you just ended it with I think I believe the I think I believe the official story. I tend to believe the official story period new thought. Yeah, that would be fine. Yep. And that that sort of same mentality carries on into this

next clip that same path that same weird journey from a defensible place into a real not not defensible. It was actually knock. First off, I just want to extend my condolences to the families and the survivors from the tragic Connecticut shooting that happened Friday morning. Good on you. I myself have three children, one of them a four year old

girl and we were all very depressed and very upset up here on Friday because I think almost the whole crew has children and most of us have young children. And when you see a robot because that's what this guy was like and it's an incredible if you had to profile subset of people that keep doing these things why even though mass shootings are flat in the last 20 years about the same every year this year has actually been worse than the last decade

or so statistically but overall it's flat. You can pull those numbers up and the reason you the reason that it's gone up is because of all these people on these psych meds or which is what the argument is making sure has to me you still really do like to see him offer condolences to the families right because that does indicate that he does know that this is real. He knows he knows he knows.

Yeah, everybody. Everybody at Info Wars knows he wouldn't behave this way. If there wasn't an awareness on some level that like whatever I end up saying eventually I don't know if he I don't know how much awareness he has of even that but like no matter where the end of this road is the beginning of the road is awareness that this is real. Yeah and that's that's good but also way worse.

It makes yeah it makes the eventual Info Wars harassment of these these people so much more dirty so much more like intentional and disgusting in that he's he can empathize and he can respect that holy shit these mass shootings are entirely possible. They are increasing and my children are at risk which if that's where you got to go to understand it. It's fine.

Get it. It's it's wrong. It's like an elementary way to empathize but if you get there you get there. Yeah to some extent. I mean it's not it's it's kind of it's a little bit like that. You know I have three daughters so I understand what it's like when women are probably huge and you're like that's not right.

I agree with you but when we're dealing with Alex Jones that's right. This is a huge win. Yeah but again it's a huge loss because it does indicate that when he does start saying those things later it's built on a foundation of him absolutely knowing right that this is real and he's bummed out about it. That's it.

That's another question. Do we know exactly the date that he I know we have the clip of we have the clip of him saying now I know it's 2015 right exactly so this is this is I mean that is entirely a three years later. Yeah it could this is not an excuse no by any means but it is a sort of recency bias there with him right here where he is now affected emotionally and then later on because he

doesn't give a fuck anymore because he like all of us has become somewhat desensitized possibly you know or it could be preemptive justification for his only wanting to talk about guns right because that makes him talking about guns and how they want to grab them and all that stuff a little more palatable because he's at the same time recognizing the horrible tragedy that these families and survivors fed to go through for sure so that is kind of the sugar that helps the pill go down or

whatever so there's there again we're speculating right it's almost impossible to know exactly what is going through his mind but these are these are some of the things you kind of think might be going through his mind when you deal with someone like this yeah in veteran liar it's it's like it's like that a small broken ring in the chain mail you know of like this guy is a psychopath but for one brief second you can see that missing scale in the underbelly of smell you

know and the problem too is that we know that he does eventually say it's fake yeah and we I know that he said it before that clip that we have right in 2015 he has to and I'm sure he says it a bunch but I don't know when he does I don't believe based on our last episode I don't believe the story that like all these nefarious weirdos like Wolfgang Helbig came along and convinced him he it was fake right he was already ready to believe it the day like the minute for

sure so that that kind of it loses a little bit of its credence to me right but I still don't know what the path is and there's a real decent chance like we speculated on the last episode that he needed those sorts of people to give him the cover right to make the arguments that he intrinsically wanted to make maybe because they're better for traffic to the website maybe right because they're better as a way to reinforce is they want your guns narratives right and any of

those things are possible but I'm I'm excited to see the because I I I bet it's not as soon as we think you know why this investigation might last until 2015 like it won't I bet it's an early 2013 my reasoning for that is that we listen to the December 21st 2012 episode for one of our past time travel episodes that's true talks to David Ike yeah and they don't talk about Sandy Hook really all that much from what I recall and then there's Christmas after that he's got to

take a couple days off probably for Christmas of course you assume the end of the year I bet he doesn't really bear down into this until early 2013 yeah but we'll see that's my prediction for right now I really don't like him bringing up Sirhan Sirhan like Robert Kennedy wouldn't be his greatest immortal enemy there's ever been he does do a lot of that repurposing villains and and allies from history yeah he recasts them however he sees fit for his purposes he should

be like the greatest thing that ever happened to this country was Sirhan Sirhan murdering the eventual true president there's an example of that that's super egregious that will be on our next episode we'll get to that when we get to it okay for now Alex wants to make the argument he wants to talk mostly about guns of course and in this next clip he's going to use some sources that I think might be a little biased on the issue to make the argument that all cultures over time

that are authoritarian in nature they want to take your guns and they will stage crises in order to do it that was the first thing here's the most important thing I want to tell you should take a knife there is a blueprint that has been followed in Soviet Russia in Nazi Germany and communist China in Japan in Australia in New Zealand in England in Germany it has been followed in Brazil it has been followed and and again there's been documentaries made about this

the NRA has written books that Jews the preservation of firearms ownership written books on the subject I've studied it have you and they always use school shootings or mall shootings in every case for the media to say aren't you for the children this wouldn't have happened if we didn't have semi auto handguns and rifles and then they ban the handguns and rifles and then they register all the other guns and then they have a mass shooting where somebody uses

a bolt action and then they ban those and that's how it works that's not how it works all those countries have very different histories with gun laws and they all have come to different places yeah and from a gun law perspective that their national sovereignty has led them to know that's globalism First Amendment they all have Japan's First Amendment rights there are there are variable gun laws throughout even just the countries that he's naming yeah and and historical

countries yeah that he's naming of course it's a woeful oversimplification of things just to be like they do this they stage these attacks in order to take guns but the reason he's doing that is because that is what he'd like the story he'd like to tell yeah about Sandy Hook because it works more if he believes that every authoritarian country throughout the course of history has staged these attacks in order to erode gun rights and gun laws and he believes that Obama

is an aspiring authoritarian Hitler then it follows from those two premises that the conclusion is that Sandy Hook is fake yes it has to yeah of course it has to be orchestrated by the government whether it is real or not it has to be orchestrated right in order for the government to take our guns so by extension either it's fake and nobody died or it's fake and everybody died I don't think it doesn't matter either way I don't think he's anywhere near actor stuff I

will say that with right quite a bit of certainty I don't think that I agree with you but he's very close to like what he wants to say is like basically they marched him in that building Adam Lanza and they had somebody else dressed like him who shot up everybody he was all drugged up they killed him in the school and then covered it up and stuff like that that's the version of it that seems like what he wants to tell the actor stuff I like I don't think is even on his

mind yeah I 100% agree with you this to this is absolutely him saying that the government murdered people yeah not that the government faked the whole thing like the moon landing which we all of course know is fake right it is it is very much and I I I think it's way worse for him to say that I don't know I don't know what's worse because I would say the humanity of these children if you call them crisis actors and it leads to them being threatened horribly this one

might be a push on the evil evil but yeah but there are slightly different evil yeah just on a very basic level you take it like take take it to its constituent parts and you see like what are you implying by this mm-hmm yeah one of them is saying that these people because it's not just the government or anything it would be someone who actually did the killing of those children yes in that version of the conspiracy theory right you're imagining some SWAT team member

who is now a mass child murderer of course so that's pretty awful to put on somebody and yeah the other version is pretending that these kids and these parents of their grief isn't real so yeah both of them are real bad yeah I don't know where to plant my flag in terms of worse yeah but they're bet they're both real bad there are there they're both tremendously and incredibly disrespectful and and just absolutely psychopathic the only reason I bring that up at

all is because I think it's important to recognize that there are different breeds of this Sandy Hook conspiracy and I think Alex has trafficked in a lot of them yeah and I don't think that that version that we know he ends up on in 2015 where he says it's completely synthetic staged with actors right I don't think that's anywhere near his mind so some of that could have actually been the influence of those negative actors that's that's possible but he was ready to

hear it based on him believing that like a SWAT team did it and then set up Adam Lam yeah yeah so it's it's borderline it's borderline like I like you think that 9-11 is an inside job that's awful if you think that 9-11 didn't actually happen and the towers are still there you're crazy it's it's weird and I think that I think that one of the things that interests me the most about this investigation and the unknowedness of it the sort of great expanse we're walking

into unlike a KOA campsite this is the actual woods and there's no mall anywhere near here no but what I what I enjoy about it a little bit is that that nuance that difference between like what is he actually saying what it like because I think if we understand that better you understand the present better yes there is something to be gained from that even if it does seem like a little bit semantic right because it is to an extent right right right that's it's

a utilitarian moral argument that doesn't make any sense at the at the end of the day now there's the children and even if we come to the conclusion that the actor stuff is stuff that invaded Alex's world I still don't think that lets him off the hook for absolutely not so even if we find that out that's just an intellectual curiosity right satisfied right as opposed to a like oh that's an excuse well how big told you there were yeah still here's the end of our investigation

turns out Steve Pachenek is worse than we thought which was the worst still hasn't shown up. Don't won't hear from him yet today. Yeah I don't know it's interesting so Alex believes that everybody wants to take the guns they're all doing like all this stuff whether or not they play into the event or any of that or if it actually happened and now they're using it to take guns they want to take guns and it's because of a UN treaty that's begun on that they

want to take guns from people did not know that also the UN treaty they couldn't get last year is set and we've covered it we've written articles and info wars dot com on it in detail. No the UN treaty says no civilian ownership of firearms and that's not just my interpretation that's forbs and Reuters. Nope. And because it says states can have guns governments but not individuals it says states have rights they play lawyer tricks but then they later

have addendums from the meetings of UNIDR that's the subset of the UN the United Nations Small Arms Restrictions Summit UNIDR. I would say we don't mean individuals we mean governments because civilian ownership of firearms threatens the legitimate power monopoly of the state that's a quote. That's a problem when he says a quote. Oh no who's that a quote from not actually entirely sure I don't count to a number of potential sources but it's hard to tell exactly

where that entered. Alex is way off on this UN treaty he's going on about here. The treaty that he has to be talking about is the arms trade treaty which wasn't actually passed until December 2014 but had been in the work since 2001. Since the process began to try to get this thing signed it's been the focus of a ton of patriot propaganda specifically that it was the world government signaling they were about to take everyone's guns. The problem is that that treaty

doesn't do anything of the sort. The arms trade treaty as the name might suggest was about international illegal weapons trafficking. That's very clearly and specifically what it was talking about creating international agreements to put in place instruments to help clandestine or help limit clandestine black market arms trading which I assume is something Alex might be into or at least he should be since it kind of gives legal law-abiding gun owners a bad

wrap. Yeah that sort of thing illegal gun trade only hurts but it hurts a whole lot more people but it also hurts right people who are legal gun owners. It was almost called the no more Iran Contras treaty. He also knows a lot of those dudes that might be part of that could be an issue. The NRA was doing great. Oh no. Alex doesn't like the NRA at this point. Oh okay. Yeah. He says that they're loyal opposition like in 2012. He is not super into the NRA. Until the higher

Iran Contra folks. But he likes the more extreme versions of it. He likes the more extreme gun groups. Right. And actually spoiler alert Stuart Rhodes is on this episode from the Oath Keepers. Stuart Rhodes shows up but I almost said the Oath Keepers. It's a very boring interview so we're not gonna actually listen to any of it. He has a they don't actually talk about Sandy Hook really at all. They talk about threats to guns. The treaty itself this UN arms trade

treaty. It goes so far out of its way to stress the individual states are not bound by this treaty to alter any of their domestic laws. I'm going to read to you from page one where it specifically reaffirms quote the sovereign right of any state to regulate and control conventional arms exclusively within its territory pursuant to its own legal and constitutional system. The treaty even gives countries a backdoor to leave the treaty at any point if they feel like

it isn't something they want to be a part of as it says in article 24 quote each state party shall in exercising its national sovereignty have the right to withdraw from this treaty. They even say that they don't have to give a reason to withdraw and the only qualification that they even give is that if a country withdraws that doesn't mean that they're immune from consequences for breaking the treaty but only if they broke the treaty before they

withdrew. Okay, so this is the most toothless thing that you could imagine more or less that qualification is only to say that you can't withdraw from the treaty when you know you've been breaking it and get away with right. Right. That's the only qualification that they even really right. The only thing I can think of that Alex would be talking about here in other thing other than this treaty is the UN report that they released in July 2001 about a conference that was held

about quote eradicating the illicit trade in small arms and light weapons. Not surprisingly this also doesn't say anything about eliminating citizens rights to own guns and actually includes this bit of language that I found a bit surprising. We reaffirm quote the right of self determination of all peoples taking into account the particular situation of peoples under colonial or other forms of alien domination or foreign occupation and recognizing the right of peoples

to take legitimate action in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations to realize their inalienable right of self determination. This shall not be construed as authorizing or encouraging any action that would dismember or impair totally or in part the territorial integrity or political unity of sovereign and independent states conducting themselves in compliance with the principle of equal rights and self determination of all peoples. Wait, so does that

actually if I understand that correctly does that mean that if you are like the Virgin Islands and you decide that you want to be your own country illegal weapon sales are fine? No, because this is this is that report not the treaty itself. Okay, okay. They're reaffirming the right. I would say the language that they're using it very very reasonably could be assumed it means you can take up arms. It kind of does mean that right? It's like American Revolution totally fine. But

if China is selling illegal weapons to like Russia, we got to solve this problem. They recognize the right of peoples to take legitimate action to realize their inalienable right of self determination. That really seems like we're cool with revolutions, bro. Yeah, I mean, they're straight up saying they explicitly recognize the right of occupied and colonialized people to take up arms against their oppressors, which is cool. That's a weird thing for the UN to say. Yeah, I know that is

a weird thing for the UN to say. But I guess if you came to a point where you could demonstrate or had a good argument that the United Nations in and of itself was making it so you had no self determination or freedom or your inalienable rights, then by their own words, yeah, you should be able to take up arms against them. It kind of seems like the idea there is similar to, you know, like France recognizing the United States as a country

immediately following the Declaration of Independence, you know, like the UN will immediately recognize if you're a colonized state, if you're like Haiti, they'll be like, hey, fuck it. We're cool with you. I don't know if it would be immediate, but yeah. It would be, well, it wouldn't be immediate. And I'm positive that hasn't been used well or anything like that, but it's in the language of the meeting, this report

that they put out in July 2001. The language in both that report and the eventual arms trade treaty does discuss the need for regulation and oversight of weapons, importers and exporters, since that would be the one of the only ways you'd be able to find illegal weapons trafficking. So I would bet anything that this is what Alex is exaggerating and lying about. He views any attempt to deal with the problems created by

the illegal use of guns as being an attack on his legal ownership of guns. And that's a position that requires him to create strawman out of every perceived attack on guns, which unfortunately undermines whatever he wants his point to be. Oh, and also the US signed that treaty, but it's never been ratified. So we're not really even subject to it. Great.

Ratification would have required two thirds vote in the Senate. And since the treaty was signed in 2013, even though the Democrats had a 5345 lead over the Republicans in that session of Congress, McConnell was still the minority leader. There's no chance and hello, Obama is going to be able to sway enough Republicans to get the treaty ratified. God damn it. McConnell is going to go down as one of history's great villains.

He has carved out a real spot for himself real bad bad. He is an awful human being also the quote civilian ownership of any firearm in the United States threatens a legitimate power monopoly of the state is not a quote from the UN at all. It's a quote from right wing blogs and talking points put out by the NRA and the Heritage Foundation in order to support undermined support for the treaty. None of Alex's information reflects reality, nor does it come from the places he's

asserting that it comes from. Yeah, and even that power monopoly of the state is such libertarian language. Yeah, there's literally no way no one except some sort of libertarian leaning think tank or blog would phrase it that way. So in this next clip, Alex, it's good that we've listened to a bunch 2009 because we know a lot of those narratives that he was using in 2009. And he's using them still in 2012, but sort of talking about them as if they're current as opposed

to being things we heard him talk about that were dated even in 2009. Homeland Security documents say gun owners returning veterans libertarians conservatives by one threat. You've seen that so the government's training that we the real Americans of the enemy while telling us they turn your guns in we want to play nice. And then while trying to blame us for some Prozac had some video game had going and doing this we need guns. Okay, all right. Weird, weird to have mamas

in the pop is behind that. Yeah, very weird. Unmelo kind of throw to break about needing guns for the Prozac heads. All the guns are fine. The guns are fine. Don't take any of those meds don't take any meds. Yikes. He is gross. Not good. No. But like you were yelling my act that is just my action. That's all the stuff that we've deconstructed from 2009 all of his perceived attacks on the Patriot community in the militias and stuff like that you you put it under a

microscope you look at it and you you see that he's just making that up. And it's good. This is why these sorts of things that we do are important because now that we have that as a piece of our awareness and people understand you can hear that clip and before you could have thought I don't know what he's talking about. Yeah, these Homeland Security all these people trying to demonize the Patriots and stuff like that. I don't know we do know we know that's a lie. Yeah, it was a

lie in 2009 and it's a fucking lie three years later. Absolutely. So but he's pulling from these wells of his brain in order to justify the gun grabber paranoia narrative right in order to I don't know what we what would you call it and create like a like foliage around having to talk about Sandy Hook specifically like in one one. Oh yeah, I can see what you're saying on Wednesday's show we heard a lot more of the like wishy washy teasing saying it's fake and stuff like that because he had

to it was the day of but now he's gathered his thoughts and it's well no matter what it's an attack on guns. So I can buy even more time by just talking about that angle and dismissing whatever like talk about the reality of Adam Lanza or the the actual shooting right it's missing the forest for the trees and except for you're trying to shoot down all the trees. Yes, yeah, yeah intentionally doing that. Yeah, absolutely caring about the Cape instead of the bowl or

something. That was not a good matter. So at the end of that clip you heard him say the he's a video game head. Sure. And that's interesting. What does he play? I don't know if we I don't know if I know that I wonder if I might be in some reporting somewhere. I'll look into that for a future episode. I wonder if he and I would just sit down and be like, Hey, man, I don't know how I feel about Final Fantasy 13 lightning returns. I think it was better than Final Fantasy 13. And

I'm not sure about Final Fantasy 13 to there were only two people. Some cheat shoes were overpowered. But listen, we're having a great time. If you said that he liked Eternal Darkness, I'd have to head back to the woods. Oh, that was that say about me with my moose friend in the woods. But it's interesting because I haven't heard a lot of this, but it is something that comes up from time to time. Alex has an intrinsic distrust of video games. And actually we had a

listener who is a Wonk. He is a I believe a globalist, Michael who messaged me about wanting to hear about Alex's take on video games. Right. And I want to give a full episode about that. But it comes so piecemeal that I'm not really fully able to satisfy that request. Yeah. But I think in the Sandy Hook investigation, we're going to accidentally hear him talk a lot of shit about video games. And it's interesting because that is something that he's using to attack Adam Lanza in the

same way that he's using. He's a pro Zach head, you know, all that stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I want to say that he's more like the bar video game guy, like he's the the deer hunter guy and the super golf or whatever it's called like that thing. Sexy photo hunt. Shout out to Matt Drafki's fantastic joke. Yeah. So in this next clip, he talks more about that talks more about the video games and how they make people crazy. There's a lot of crazy psychos out there and they usually

grab you and go and torture you. There's some psychos though that want to kill you right on the spot. It's kind of like eating in, you know, going into the restaurant to eat not not getting a hamburger bag and going home to eat it. Most psychopaths want to go home and take their time. You know, a lot of these psychos, you know, like to torture people take their time but but a small minority. They like sun usually just programmed by video games, their brain damage. I'm already got into

this. I want to say they're evil and you know, think about what I do to them but but but really folks, it's always just some weird goth nerd kid whose brain damage on a bunch of drugs watching devil movies all day playing video games. He is expressing basically like updated version of the satanic nonsense. Absolutely. And what the, you know, the something about Dylan Clybold Dylan and Clybold listen to Marilyn Manson nights in Satan's service. That's what kiss really

means. It's a hundred percent the same tired, tired argument that is usually used by people who wish to restrict free speech to some extent. You know, people like a tipper gore. I was about to bring up tipper gore. Yeah, holy shit. People who are on the same fucking page, man. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, like this sort of argument is not something you would ever expect to hear out of someone who thinks they're a libertarian. Yeah, the idea of like violent video games made this guy kill

a guy, right? Like what the fuck? So we need regular regular or do you do you outlaw video games as a whole? Right now? What's a video game? Right? Fun times with that one, Alex, right? Or is it the regulation? You say you can't have violence in video games, right? And then what does that become? Right? Where do you draw the line on that? She can Mario jump on a Goomba like that sort of thing. Good question. Right. That's violence. That's violence as fuck. Right. So because in most

video games, you're not even killing the guy like you're knocking them out, but Goombas get murdered. I'm straight up. I've been playing so much Hyrule Warriors. Oh, you kill all the time, but they're always called ko's. Nice. They're listed as knockouts. Nice. Though you're walking around slashing people with swords and then they fade to gray. Yeah, I mean, they fade to gray. But that but that that sort of mentality and that idea, it really does become like I neither

of us are super big fans of slippery slope arguments, but like it does become a situation where you're like, well, what is it that you're actually complaining about? Right? Devil movies? What's a devil movie? Poltergeist? Well, yes, anything with Gabriel burn in it. You know how kids these days in 2012, they're always watching Poltergeist. That's what they're doing. Rosemary's baby. They yeah. I don't kids love Robert Evans. I don't think not the Robert Evans from behind the

bastard. The other the other other the kid who stays in the picture. Right? Yeah. The the idea of it. I mean, he's not literally talking about the devil, but like the what is the point where you're like this is no good is satisfied. It's a very sensorious position to have and it is not something you expect to hear from someone who is into free speech, who's a libertarian who believes people should live and let live or whatever. And it's it's it's nuts. Like that alone should be

an invalidation of Alex pretending he has the principles he professes. Absolutely. And in the in practice, you wind up getting the the PG PG 13 our rating thing where it's all just arbitrary nonsense. Oh, if you have a if you have one pair of tits, then it's PG 13, right? You can say fuck one time like what is that? What does that even mean? I'm fine with rating movies, but I think the body that does it is terrible. The guidelines are terrible. There's value to it in as much as

like if you're a parent, you don't have time to fucking know what you're going to write that sort of thing. Right? I think that you need a shorthand for parents. I heard that the third how to train your dragon gets a hard R. So I'm pretty excited about that. It's called it's called how to train your Deadpool three. That's I saw the second one or was it? I think it was the sequel and yeah, when I was getting a root canal and I had a lot of thoughts. Yeah, thoughts about it. Yeah. A lot of

tooth related thoughts. Nope, especially considering his name is toothless and you were getting a root canal. That is ironic. Those pieces. Oh, I put it all together. Anyway, well, that we'll have to save my thoughts on how to save a dragon for another day, but I was on the gas man. Turns out I may not have thoughts about that one dragon too big. Yeah, get them out of here. Get them out of here. So in this next clip, Alex says what I would describe as the most ironic thing possible

given what we know about the future. Yeah, but like rain on your wedding day, but it sounds good two days after the shooting. Uh huh. It sounds it sounds good, but we know too much. Right. So put your mic down. Okay. Enjoy this delicious piece of the whoops. Yeah, the police are now begging reporters to leave grieving families alone. Well, they're not gonna leave alone because they want to demonize the Second Amendment and that's what they're doing. I saw him on the news. Why do

you feel about the Second Amendment? What do you think about guns? Please just leave us alone. I bet they wish somebody would have been in there with a gun. Even it was a cop to stop it. And the answer is firearms to protect ourselves. So so I think that the irony is delicious there. The idea that he's condemning these reporters trying to harass the families. When we know that the end result of so many of his actions. And I'm not I'm not saying that in some abstract

sense. Like there are people who have sent death threats to the families and gone to court. And part of their probation has been you can't listen to info. Yeah, like that sort of stuff. It's not it's not some sort of wacky idea that we have that a lot of his listeners have this impulse to harass these family members. But that's been borne out by reality. But back then that is a good instinct. I think to have but I don't think it reflects reality. I don't think that the reporters were

harassing the families trying to get them to say bad things about guns. Right. But if they were, they shouldn't they shouldn't have been and I agree with Alex. I don't think that's a word. So we this gets back to the last episode where I'm talking about idea I use humor to deal with these types of things in like that is that I can't help but laugh at but what that truly is in retrospect is utterly reprehensible. Yeah, utterly reprehensible behavior that cannot be allowed

to continue and it's hilarious. But because it's so awful. But it's not reprehensible here. I think it's reflecting exactly I think it's reflecting his unwillingness or inability to understand what is happening in front of right like the idea that he thinks that these families are being harassed by journalists and stuff and maybe a few journalists were I bet that they're probably I'm sure there were some male is fucking off. Yeah, who knows. Yeah, there are probably some people

who are acting out a line to trying to get the story trying to get some juicy gas. Yeah, whatever. But like his inability to understand exactly what's going on is leading him to be sort of Papa morality about like hey leave these families alone and that's good but it's hilarious because we know. Yeah, and that's the number one purveyor of making them harass people. It's and that's not laughing at the tragedy. That's laughing at Alex's. I guess what you're laughing at is that

he knows better, you know that he like in the same way that that clip earlier that we played where he's given condolences to the family is so demonstrative that he knows something really bad. Yeah, that is an indication that he knows that other people's actions can cause negative reactions for the victims. It is kind of like the survivors. It is kind of like that should be played in his trials of like no, I know this is intentionally awful because he himself said that it was

intentionally awful to do the thing that sort of behavior made happen. Yeah. Yeah. The I mean the only the best offense I think you would have is like I had no idea that my actions would cause this thing that I know is terrible. Right. And if that's the case, then you should be off the air. I mean maybe not by a legal mandate or anything like that. But if if you don't know if you don't realize that what you're saying will lead people to harass these people right docks them on

the internet and shit like that. If you don't realize that then you you're playing with fire that you don't have any mastery. You're an irresponsible actor that should just not be allowed. You just shouldn't be allowed or you should just do sports. I bet he couldn't even handle that though. I bet he'd say something really fucked up. Oh man. I just be worse than Dennis Miller on Monday Night Football. We nice. Hey, we already know what he thinks about Kaepernick. So we definitely

don't want him covering sports. I'm just that was the I know that was the wrong thing to choose weather. Nah, you'd say it was weapons. I was trying to that would be a weather report that nobody could not watch. I was trying to figure out it's gonna rain tomorrow because of the government. I was trying to figure out the slot to put him in that would be so low stakes. Yeah. And my mind wouldn't allow me to go to celebrity gossip because the publication would be sued immediately

immediately because he would do it so poorly. Yeah. Even Peter Teal would have to sue him at some point. This is not a blind item. Yeah. TM Alex Jones. There's no way. Yeah, there's no way you put him anywhere. But like the point of what I was trying to get put him somewhere low stakes instead of this incredibly powder keggy, very high stakes. Yeah, that he's operating in. Make him be the anchor on the local news station who's like, and we have the cutest kitten of the month here

today. Like that would work. It's that time of year again. A squirrel is water skiing. We're all excited when it happens. He should do Tosh 2.0. That's what he should do. He should be sentenced to a he should be sentenced to a lifetime of the worst human interest stories. Yeah. Just inconsequential reporting. America's conspiracy is home videos where like the Secret Service has to follow him on shoots and like he tries to get off script and he just that's going to prison if you

don't have people following him around. That would be an interesting kind of hell to sentence him to or like, oh, here would be great. Okay, so we do an internship with the Council on Foreign Relations or something like that. Sentence him to a class where he has to actually read and discuss the primary sources that he talks about. Oh, yeah. Okay. Cause that would be that sort of like the punishment. It doesn't fit the crime, but it might be the only it might be a therapeutic

way to go about it. Make him a paralegal for the SPLC. I don't think that would do it. I just assume everything was fake or like that even no matter how he couldn't read. He couldn't read the briefs. Fair, fair, fair. The reason that I said you got to have that to be a class and stuff like a workshop is because you need to have someone discussing with him the way he's misreading these things and confront him with it in a setting that he can't leave. That's why it has to be court order. Fair

enough. I don't know. It's interesting. It's fun to think about what would be a good punishment for him. Every morning he wakes up and has to live out that dream of going to high school in your underwear. That's what has to happen now because he was swole the shit back in high school and was super cool and everyone wanted to fuck him. He goes to high school in his underwear. That's why he's got to do it now. No. I wouldn't be so great. No. Thick ass neck walking

in that school. Hey Alex, what's bigger? Your ass or your neck? Oh, fucking kids are globalists these days. I don't know what to tell you. Also algebra is hard. So yeah, all that aside, I don't know. I don't know. But in this next clip, Alex talks about the foundation of America, the beginning of this country. Wrongly. Very much. I can already tell you wrongly. Yes. And again, the collectivist do this in every country the same script. This is how they get the

guns every time and here they're failing because it's such a part. Hey lady, the gun culture you're so upset about and that and that Bob Costas hates so much. The gun culture is America. We are rough and tumble. It's true. He's when he says hey lady, he's been complaining about Diane Feinstein just to give you some. Oh, okay. And it started in 1776 July 4th. You may have heard of it over the Red Codes coming to go door to door taking legal firearms. So the country was

born when you came to take the gun. You're still trying to try it again. It'll be reborn again. He goes on to say I don't want it to be reborn that way. Sure. But you already hear like him defining sort of 1776 2.0 there and it's just it's all gun shit. Everything's guns. Yeah, all guns. Yep. America was based on guns. Gun culture is American culture. I don't know if I believe in any of that. It is it is kind of fascinating that this very argument has

been going on since the beginning. Do you know like in the first constitutional Congresses there were these gun folk in those Congresses there were so many of these people who are you know who are like hey we should have socialized medicine and then other people were like what if we killed everybody like it was it was that you know like you have so many people like a fucking Hamilton arguing for centralized power within the executive branch and you just keep going

after all this shit and you're like it's the same fucking argument we've had since the goddamn beginning. This country is a fucking mess with different masks different presentations. Yeah, there's there's something to that. I don't know. I would say that if the people who it wasn't the majority of people in the colonies who wanted to start this revolutionary war right but it was not no and good on them for doing it fine. Sure, maybe they got a little bit higher tax so they started

a revolution that's a little bit troublesome. I would say history is born out that it worked out fine. Really? Well, the only reason I resist any of that sort of sentiment is because like if we were still like the United States as it is now but a territory of the United Kingdom right. I don't think it would be better. We could be Canada. But we could just have the Queen on our money and everybody be fine. Sure. Whatever the case. I think quite frankly, if

the like Alex is describing the thing that set off the revolutionary war was guns and people having their guns taken that it wouldn't be the second amendment. It wouldn't be an amendment. It would be the first thing in the Constitution period. Well, maybe the structure of government is laid out in the articles and stuff like that. But one of the articles would be hey, the reason we did this is they wanted to take our guns as opposed to being an afterthought not an afterthought

but these things that are added in. It would have been in the fucking Declaration of Independence. You bet. It would have been an inalienable human right. So in this next clip Alec yells Alex yells a bunch and I should say that a good bit of this episode that I've just fucking cut out because I don't really give a shit. It's him yelling about how Obama cheated at to win the 2012 election. Sure, sure, sure. It was all cheating and he yells about that and some other stuff in this

next clip. The fix was in Romney was a scam as well. The whole thing was rigged up one side and down the other and this is a desperate establishment that knows you're waking up to them that knows the gun culture is spreading and liberals are buying guns everywhere. It's even on television and print media. They're now admitting this. And so they're panicking desperately saying, Oh, conservatism is dead. Libertarianism is dead. Oh,

freedom is dead. Everyone's embracing collectivism. No, it's not. They're trying to shove a fraud. The dinosaur corporate state run media is dying. They're panicking. They stole the election. They're in deep trouble. We're winning. Don't believe their hoax. We're winning. We're winning. We're winning. We're winning. That outro music started too early. I think you missed time to break a little bit. I don't think you did great on that one. A little bit. Doth protest a little much.

Yeah, that that good. But all the things that he's saying are also things that would lead you to believe that Sandy Hook was fake. You know, like all of it, the corporate media is dying. They need stuff like this. Obama cheated. They're desperate. They're panicking. All that stuff. Yeah. What what what is the action you're implying they would take if they were panicking exactly faking a school shooting. Agreed. Absolutely. If the if you're saying that the old mainstream media is manufa is

not is is in crisis because they know of the gun people because they know that even liberals who still believe in the mainstream media are buying guns, then they have to create this situation in order to get the liberals to stop buying guns extreme time away from the Patriot. Exactly. Yeah. Sure. Every part of this is like it's it's very much a where there's smoke. There's they fixed Sandy Hook. I mean, he literally said where there's smoke, there's fire. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And

this is still the tease, but the tease has changed. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. That's the thing that I think that's most interesting from this Friday to Sunday jump is that the tease was so I don't think Alex was even in control of it necessarily based on like I would say just based on the fact that you and I were so like, well, maybe what he's doing is this. Yeah. On on Friday and now on Sunday, I think we're on much solid or ground that it's there's a tease. I know that

my audience is going to understand that I don't trust what's going on even if I say I believe the mainstream story right. Right. Who gives a shit? Let's talk guns. He is that is that is how he finds his bearings. Yeah. He is doing something I I would say could be considered calculated in that unlike with the previous episode, he's not kind of all over the map. True. In this episode, he's specifically pointing out it's almost like he's building a case like he's

specifically pointing out the motivations of different groups like the UN is doing this. The mainstream media is doing this and he's trying to build this case against each one of them so that his conclusion then can be pointed back to all of them. But I don't know if how much of that is intentional and how much of that is just the result of he's had to sit with this for a couple days and he's more ready to talk right was on Friday. That's a fair point. He got blindsided in the middle

of the show with this news right on on Friday. And now he's had time to like have a meeting with Buckley or whatever and figure out like, all right, what's important here? First off, those are some dope beats. Well, for years, you've been screaming about people taking your guns. Obviously people are having a conversation about gun control in the aftermath of the shooting. So just do that and we'll figure out where to go from there. Yeah. So now he knows that much and he can

do you can do this and you see it in other places throughout like with the Prozac head stuff. Yeah. He has a built-in narrative about people taking psych medications, making them kill people. Right. Stuff like that. Throw that in. He has the Mayak report. Certainly. Throw that in and turn it from the Mayak report to a federal report and they're doing it on everybody. Well, the DHS report was that other one we talked about. Right, right, right. I know what you're saying, but

it's the same. But the Mayak has a great name. Yeah. Mayak has a much better name. It's interesting because when he needs to pull from the well, those are the things he pulls from. You know, there's an implicit vaccine narrative that he's throwing out. There's the psych meds narrative. There's the Mayak narrative. There's the gun grabbing narrative. And so you have all of these standard expected pieces of Alex's rhetoric, but he adds in because it's a

school shooting and stuff like that. The video games, right? And he gets back to it in this next clip. See, I'm here for we the people and I'm not a collectivist and because some serotonin reuptake inhibitor prozac, riddlin head, goth, video game punk. I'm not calling to ban your video games. I'm not calling to ban your prozac, but we should do that before we ban guns. So I mean, that's that I mean, that implies that I'm more fine with banning video games and prozac before I am

guns, which means you're kind of okay with banning those pretty much means that exactly. It means at least that they aren't absolutes for him. I'm a libertarian, but there's some wiggle room. There's some versions of entertainment that I think should be prohibited. Yeah. Why is everybody I get I get the Columbine thing, but come on, man, goth kids are cool. Yeah, kids are fine. Yeah, they weird out adults. Yeah. And I understand why you can't connect. It's hard. I get it. It's

the same thing with video games. It's like we didn't grow up with video games so we can't understand them. Each generation has that subculture that you just can't understand unless you're a part of it or around it a lot. Right. The point is Alex keeps bringing up video games. Yes, he keeps bringing up video games because it is some sort of a trigger for him. Right. It's not frequently a part of his rhetoric, but it is now two days later. He wasn't talking much about video games on Friday

because he didn't know who the guy was. Now that he's in the age subset that he would associate with this part of his brain pointing finger at video games. It's huge to him. Yeah. And he says this in this next clip. I couldn't beat link to the past. I don't even think I think he was a Pong guy. That's not fair. He's only 10 years older than me. I know he's not that old. No, but that means he would have been playing like Atari or something. Oh no, that's not fair. I don't know. My

timelines all fucked up because my parents wouldn't let me have video. I bet he played GoldenEye at least once. Yeah, but he would have been 30 20. I don't know. Okay, most people don't have a killer instinct. First person shooter games were developed in the 60s by the Department of Defense for instinctive killing. So you don't worry, you just instantly do it. Police are trained to do this now. So the point is you get an autistic person who's an idiot savant. He was reportedly

highly intelligent who has obsessive. He got obsessed with guns and shoot them ups and was reportedly under psychiatric care. The treatment for that is psychotropic. So you give someone a killer. Now, listen, it could have been a government off. They're reporting people in the woods. Another guy arrested. So at the end there that spinning into that shit is no good. Your favorite movies are John Wayne movies. True. He's what are you talking about? Shoot him up games are a

problem. He's in some hot water right here. I hear John Wayne isn't as cool as everyone thought. What a surprise. Yeah. Oh no. So but he's talking about video games like these shoot him up games were created by the Department of Defense and all this stuff. And interestingly, Alex is kind of right about that, but he's also kind of wrong in terms of the video games of the Department of Defense and the Pentagon. What he's right about is that DoD funding was involved with some of the earliest

video games like back in the 1950s. There's a man named William Higginbotham who worked at Brookhaven National Lab and he created a game called tennis for two on some of the early computers that they had there to try and make their lab more interesting to visitors. Yeah, basically an early version of Pong, right? His salary at the lab was paid for by the government and so you can make the argument that they helped create video games from that. Yeah. Then in 1993, the Marines noticed the

rising popularity of doom and they wanted to see if there were ways to use the new technology to help supplement their training regiment, particularly because it would be way cheaper than what they had been doing previously. Yeah, I was gonna say they're they're playing the the last starfighter game like they're doing that whole thing training simulations in terms of like what they were working with in order to create a facsimile of a 3D environment and stuff like that. Right. They had to have

like boxes that would shake and like going to star tours. Of course. That's way more expensive than just developing a software or whatever that is a simulation. The Marines made adjustments to doom to to try and work make it work for their purposes, but the finished product was never officially used for training. It was called Wolfenstein. It was called I think it was actually called Marine Doom, which is not a great name. It's not a great name. It might have had a slightly

different name, but it was Marine something could not be less creative than Marine blank. It's not the games themselves that have application for training and thus explain the reason that the Pentagon has for a long time been funding funding the underlying research. It's the technology that is used to make the video games. For instance, with doom, it was the innovation of navigating a 3D environment with shooting games. It's the collaborative team elements that you can recreate and the need

for immediate decision making that's built into the structure of the games. So those sorts of things are very big innovations in technology simulating. Yeah, like that that sort of computing simulation. It's not that the games themselves are training you. Right? That's important. It's an important distinction. If we have soldiers who are doing this stuff in real life, what if we also had them play Counter Strike and did that? Well, and learn how to look around corners or

whatever it is. But that that's the thing. That's not what they do. That's not what they do. They have the they have used the technologies that have been developed by the development of these games, which is why they invest in a lot of video game companies, right? Thq made a bunch of money on government contracts and stuff like that. Because what the game development allows by the breakthroughs that they make are that the training things that the government and the military and the Marines

can use get to use those technologies. Right. If that makes sense, like a flight simulator. Yes, like like when pilots are in those giant. Yeah, this is such an important distinction. What drives the game and what like is behind it is not what they're interested in. They're not interested in like open world. Like like Breath of the Wild being open world. They don't want to train people to look out for enemies or whatever by playing Breath of the Wild. They're interested

in the breakthroughs and technology that they can apply to their own simulations like like drones and shit like that like the movie toys. Not necessarily. I don't know why I'm doing so many movie references. Not necessarily to drone attacks or something like that, although there is an interesting wrinkle with that. But there it's more to what they're able to do with the simulations that they do use for training inside the army. Okay, they don't make people play Call of Duty to train them

to go to war. Right. They use technology breakthroughs that are part of the creation of those games right in order to use in their own way in order to amplify their own pre existing simulations. As as technology has gotten so much better and as the video games, the controls of them have developed over the years, you are essentially able to create something that is very similar to flying a plane. Yeah, that you don't have to fly a plane to do right that is in everyone's best interest from

a financial standpoint from a safety standpoint, right? Even though learning to fly a plane apparently isn't as hard as everyone thinks and that's why everybody in the Marines thinks that ebony is an ore and a metal because they play Skyrim all the goddamn time. Not sure Skyrim has many training applications but the point is that is an important distinction to bring in about like the difference between what the DoD and the Pentagon were interested in in terms of video games as opposed

to how Alex is presenting it. He's presenting it as they paid all this money in order for these games to get created so everyone would play them and it'd be shoot them up and then they'd all be ready to kill. Yeah. Yeah. I got you. Like in toys. That is an infantile fucking stupid way to look at this. When you look at where the money is what they would be interested in and I'm not saying that I necessarily think that it's a great thing because I think that the military

does you know do a lot of bad stuff evil but I also think that you know in terms of if you're gonna train people anyway doing it that way paying for so many video games I've gotten such enjoyment out of probably only existed because of technology that there was underlying funding from the government in order to create the Internet etc. Right. Yeah. So I don't know it's it's more complicated. I get it. Anyway no matter how many times Alex has seen the last Starfighter

which you mentioned earlier. This is just not how it works. There's no intrinsic training that you get from playing a first-person shooter that you wouldn't get from playing like Tetris in terms of decision making all of those snap decisions and stuff like that that are created by like a first-person shooter game where someone's coming at you got to shoot them. It's the exact same thing as like you got to flip that block. Yeah. It's the same part of your brain in

terms of that stuff. You don't experience a desensitization about death from video games unless you're probably already on that path to begin with for any number of possible reasons that is not about the video game. It's about the person who's experiencing the game. Right. And if you are a libertarian that should be a big consideration for you. I have killed a lot of Nazi zombies. I have never once considered killing a human being. Absolutely. The more important aspect of the

military and video games is that they found that they're way more effective as a recruiting tool than as a training instrument. And that's their largest interest these days at least. Yeah. Games like the Call of Duty all those games are essentially propaganda to a certain extent. Yeah. And they were way worse like a decade or two ago. Yeah. Some of the games that were coming out were like overt army propaganda. Yeah. Anyway, another thing that Alex doesn't consider is

that the investment that the military has put into the development of these technologies has other applications as well. For instance doctors are able to use simulations and control therapeutic environments to help returning soldiers who are experiencing PTSD. It's obviously not a perfect treatment at this point but it's shown a lot of promise in terms of helping soldiers deal with traumatic events and manage negative emotions. So there is that payoff that

comes from the investment that they have in the technology also. Yeah. So all of this is to say that Alex is fucking stupid. He is dealing with this on a one dimensional scale as opposed to thinking about like, huh, what were they doing? Why? It is weird that a lot of video game history has the government funding behind it. But if you just scratch beneath the surface tiny bit, it doesn't, it's not nefarious. It's nefarious if you think that the military

just wants to kill people in other countries. And that argument, I'll hear. I'll hear that argument. But in terms of like trying to train the culture in order to be dumb dumb serial killers who will go around and shoot people. Yeah. That's fucking stupid. That is, it is on the level of the satanic panic arguments. Yeah. Agreed. It's, it's weird to I suppose it's not invalidating, but it is weird to say that violent video games can be a therapeutic element

for no, no, no, no, not violent video games. No, just the technology that was developed. Right. No, no, I mean for soldiers returning. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, it's not violent. Right. Right. Okay. I apologize. Not necessarily violent. Right. But but it is, it is strange for video game technology to be both a therapeutic element and at the same time, the element that people use to desensitize people to violence. Do you know what I mean? But I'm not

sure it's not an invalidating argument because it but I also don't think that the way that the military uses the technology and the simulations that they create, I don't think it's to desensitize people to violence. Oh, of course not. I think it's I'm just saying that his argument is that yeah is is fair. You know, it's kind of a and and again, like things can be both a double edged sword. That's not that's not unreasonable to say, but it is hard to to make

that argument without at the same time making that connection. Well, you know what I'm saying? No, of course, he doesn't care. He doesn't care. His argument is I think that this guy was set up by the globalists and I'm going to find the thinnest straws to pull at. Yeah, in order to make that argument, one of them is video games and I have a built in narrative. I just don't think it's come up any time that we've been covering him. Yeah, I think this is probably a narrative of his

that's probably existed since Columbine for sure probably his entire career in terms of like the Department of Defense created video games in order to sensitize people to violence, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, I think that's probably a major narrative. He doesn't pull out very often because it's not often all that applicable. And so we hear it now and what if somebody just taught him how to play Minecraft? Do you think he would feel differently about video game show is over

video games? The show is over. He's like, I'm just going to be I'm going to recreate the Alamo in Minecraft. I'm going to I'm going to play out the life of Colonel Travis. Yeah, give him Simfarm and tell him to go fuck myself. Enjoy this pretend lifestyle you wish you were living. Yeah, what if somebody just gave him city early enough where he was like, Well, I'll take all these conspiracy theories and create my own world and oh my God, this happens naturally. I will I will simulate

exactly what I think is going on. That's that's why I will simulate what my enemies want to do and then flash forward to a prosperous city. Yeah, it would be interesting to have him play the the latest expansion of Civ six, which includes climate changes. Oh, it does. Yeah. Yeah. Includes the climate changes like one of the elemental things that you have to deal with sadly not available on the switch. Oh, I'm sorry to hear that. Yeah, I haven't played it either. So I don't know my point

is that it's interesting. I think we got a new wrinkle of his narratives that is sort of more elusive that was driven out of its little hole, little hidey hole by this this school shooting. That's good. That's worth something. Anyway, we have one more clip and Alex gets a call and this caller says that it's fake that the shooting was fake. Of course, Alex. His response is interesting. And I think that there's volumes within this 30 second clip. Let's go to Julio in Illinois. Julio real fast.

You know, what would drive the son whose father was the vice president and tax director of General Electric Energy Financial Services, the Connecticut shooter is that was the VP. What no, he grew up in a multimillion dollar year family and I tell you the whole look, I'm not going to go there, but it looks suspicious. I'd rather debate it on the facts that I can prove but look, I smell something when it's rotten brother. God damn it. That is the worst fucking response possible because that

guy is that caller is expressing things that are a big part of the Sandy Hook is fake world and I assume you're probably going to run with right in the future. And his response is to cut him off and be like, I don't want to go there. But also, I smell something when it's rotten. Yeah. So it's like, I don't want to go there, but I'll still insinuate. Right. And that is bad. But it's where he's at. That's the thing that he's going to point to for sure with his

we just had debates on it. Yeah, argument is like, I would rather debate this on the facts and it's like, no, you wouldn't but he also hasn't been using facts. Of course not. Facts are a bummer. Facts really break up his entire momentum. They're a big problem. Every time you bring facts into it. Alex Jones, his whole world, do you falls apart? Totally. Totally. But again, in the same way that like you see glimmers of what I think he wishes he had done. Yeah. In these episodes. And

what I think maybe is his spiritual memory of what he did. I think it's entirely possible. Yeah. That response to that caller still could be depicted as we heard both sides right or whatever. Right. Even being like, I don't want to go there. But it looks bad. It looks suspicious. He knows that the end result of that is the audience will fucking ignore the I don't want to go there and hear that this is suspicious part. But in terms of things that we can really nail to the

wall, he's not he's not super out of line yet, except for all of the other stuff. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In terms of what we're looking at in Sandy Hook stuff. He's he's very clearly signaling what he wants to do and where he's at. But he hasn't said the things we need yet. It is it is like he is living in a world where he can win that lawsuit. He can win the current lawsuit. If he is just this guy in 2012 for these two days, then when they sue him, he can he can say

and back up. I didn't say this was fake. I only wanted to have debates. I had my suspicions because I'm who I am. But in the world we live in now, he done fucked up and even he knows almost certainly that he done fucked up. Well, and what's interesting too is that Alex now like his version of it is so much like I had the right to question things. They had babies and incubators and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, but he's not using those arguments now. No, he's not

talking about like how there were babies and incubators that they said were being kicked out and stuff like the things that he uses to defend himself for why he was questioning Sandy Hook as Sandy Hook is unfolding. He's not talking about those things, but he's still clearly questioning it. He knows that he doesn't need to defend himself. Right. And it's super it's it's just crazy interesting to me. I know that there's a part of it that I have to detach a tiny bit of

humanity. Yeah, myself in order to go through all this, but of course, this this does have the feel of somebody in in in the moment. This has the feel of somebody who thinks he has to be the guy who says this probably isn't real. Like he feels like he has a responsibility to his listeners to pretend that this to imply that this isn't real. Yeah, he doesn't feel like it's not real yet. You know, do you know what I mean? Like this is this is the this is the Alex Jones in a lawsuit who

can say or whose lawyer can say this is an act. This is this is Alex Jones, the presenter who has to do the things that he does for his show, but he wouldn't have to defend himself about the behavior over the last two episodes that we've listened to. Of course, like I don't think that there's anything in there that's legally actionable. Exactly. And if we didn't know that he eventually says the things he does, right, it would be like, huh? Alex is walking a fine

line, right? He's irresponsible here. But he's kind of right. He didn't say it was fake. You just keep right plying it's fake, which that's on the side of free speech. You can do whatever you want to do. You're a dick to do it. But you whatever. I mean, I don't yet. The thing that's what I'm saying, but this is the this is the Alex Jones that they want to present that his lawyers want to present. Yeah. In in court. When we know that the Alex Jones that's real is the

one from 2015 saying it's fake or in a couple episodes on this show. Yes. It's entirely possible. Yeah. And the other thing that I need to bring into really sharp focus is because I got some feedback from the last episode about like you need to talk to the Sandy Hook lawyers about this and stuff like that. I've gotten a couple emails about that. And one of the reasons that first of all, I will never do that is because why second, they know this. Yeah. And then third, everything

that we're talking about is outside of the statute of limitations. Even him in 2015 saying it was synthetic completely there were actors. I thought there were kids who died there, but it turns out there weren't all that shit. That is still outside the statute of limitations for defamation. Yeah. In the jurisdictions he's being sued so there isn't a real productive reason to bring this to the conversation and say they would be inadmissible anyway. And

they know. Yeah. These are these are episodes that are you can find them online. Right. It's not like I had to right. I had to dig through the crates like I'm DJ Z trip or something. Okay. Random DJ. That's a weird name to bring up, but I'm cool with that. Shadow. You're okay. That's better. All right. There you go. DJ Kosey. He's in the news last year. Last year. He had the one of the top 20 albums of last year. All right. Yeah. Good on him. That's good, but I didn't have to dig too far

to find these things. It's like it's available and I believe that anybody doing their due diligence if they're suing Alex Jones about what he said about Sandy Hook, they know what the fuck he said right at this time. They know it's not legally actionable, but it's important for their case. Yeah. So they would know these to be aware of it. Yeah. So I don't I don't I don't have any real interest in in that that angle of this. This is entirely human and intellectual based. Yeah. Just

understanding what he was doing. How his brain works. How how does a person fall into that deep of a hole? Right. How do you go from this point where it's clear that he recognizes that people died to whatever version of the conspiracy he lands on first. That's what I'm more interested in. As much as as much as I want our show to be successful in the present because I really would like that. Not stoked about a day job, but there is also a certain aspect of this that I find so relevant to

posterity like a when when it's also relevant to right now when the fish people take over in about 1525 years. I hope they listen to the show and recognize what propaganda Smith. Yeah. And at that point, when the deep the deep ones, they come and take over. Yeah. Alex's RSS people be dead by then. Right. So we want to be able to find out what he said. Great graphic novel the deep. Fantastic. This is another thing. It's very

foreign territory for us to jump into another investigation because these things that we've done have taken so long. You know, they're generally they end up being tons and tons of episodes. Yeah. We're used to knowing a whole lot more and they're being larger context to a ton of stuff. Whereas now we're on the second episode, the second day of looking at this 2012 December 2012 stuff, right? It's yeah, it's more foreign territory. So even though we know Alex Jones, there's so much

more that like, we got to get our feet under us a little bit. Yeah. And I don't think we're 100% there yet. We're still doing too much speculating, which I don't think is wrong. I don't think it's bad of us. But it's not it's not where I want to be. But it's the it's the essential piece of putting like getting in the pool, right? It's the it's the you never know what you're diving into. We've we've committed to the jump. We'll find out what the water is like when we get in.

It's it's just that it's dead center in between our 2009 investigation and our 2015 investigation. And yet somehow this is a completely different thing. And yet it's the same way I don't care about his guns. Right. There's so many of these same built in essential narratives about distrusting psych meds and vaccines and stuff like that. So there's a lot of there's a lot of familiar territory we can use to orient ourselves. Right. But yeah, it's the tone. But the tone is

different. The tone is different. Yeah. The response to severe circumstances is different. And just who who he is at this point is different. Because we haven't heard from him like in a couple years at this point when we're jumping in. So we will learn more. We'll experience this and I'm glad it's not ugly yet. But it's going to be I'm sure it will. But we'll catch you next time. Maybe another fucking Sandy Hook episode on Monday. We'll find out. It depends. It'll probably

be so anyway before that until then we have a website. We do have a website. It's knowledge fight.com. That's great. We're also on Twitter. If you are a big if you are a big John Wayne fan, it's also fill your hand. That's right. I think we got to get rid of that now. Bad news about John Wayne. Got to get rid of that redirect. But our Twitter page is at knowledge underscore fight. Correct. We're also on Facebook. We are on Facebook. We have a group call. Go home and tell your mother

you're brilliant. Yeah. Which is filled with fantastic people and we hope that it can remain a safe time. Absolutely. We're also on iTunes. We are on a safe space. It's you can leave a nice marriage. But you can leave a review subscribe all that good stuff. Indeed. But I don't know man. You look at this. I don't know if Alex talked about anybody but himself and literal murderer. You know what I mentioned Lanza. You know what I will say this. I have killed a lot of Nazi zombies.

I've killed a lot of Mio Necton's in the video game world. Oh yeah. But I've never killed a guy. No. I know who has who technically probably in the real world. Oh no may have killed a guy. That's Alex Jones. Andy and Kansas. You're on the air. Thanks for holding. So Alex I'm a first name caller. I'm a huge fan. I love your work. I love you.