Knowledge Fight - #269: December 19, 2012

Episode Date: February 27, 2019

Today, Dan and Jordan continue their investigation into how Alex Jones behaved in the immediate aftermath of the shootings at Sandy Hook. In this installment, the gents learn more about how awful Ted Nugent is, discuss UK crime statistics, and struggle with Alex taking a serious turn in his rhetoric for seemingly no reason.

Andy and Kansas, you're on the air. Thanks for holding. Hello, Alex. I'm a first-time caller. I'm a huge fan. I love your work. I love you. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to Knowledge Fight. I'm Dan. I'm Jordan. We're a couple dudes. I like to sit around, drink novelty beverages and talk a little bit about Alex Jones. Oh, indeed we are, Dan. Jordan. Dan! Jordan. Have you ever seen a symphony orchestra live?

Yeah, when I was a kid. Yeah? Yeah. What were your thoughts? Oh, we have a shit. What do you mean? I just... I'll tell you what was more impressive. Over the weekend, I went out to the AAW pro wrestling event. Oh, okay. All right. Shout out to Marty and Sarah from Marty and Sarah Love Wrestling. Got some nice seats.

Hell yeah. We were in the balcony. Okay. Is that good? I thought it was just going to be the balcony, like seating in the balcony. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This was the VIP section. Oh, you were like in... This is where like Marty's... He does commentary for AAW.

So he was up there doing... That's where his booth was. No shit. The pro... Like all the wrestlers, the locker room was up in the balcony. It was absurd. That's awesome. I felt ludicrous. Yes. Because everyone was going nuts for stuff and like...

I was just like, hmm... I think but the biggest response I had to things was just going like, uh-oh. So, somewhat non-plussed then. No, I enjoyed the hell out of it. I'm just... I'm not the... I'm not the type that goes like... Right. Unless I'm wasted and I wasn't super drunk. That was a smart idea.

You would have fallen out of that balcony. The big news, the Young Bucks showed up. Very popular indie tag team. A little bit of a surprise appearance. They showed up. They're huge, man. Yeah. The place went apeshit crazy.

As big as the Young Turks. Yeah. Bigger. Bigger. Bigger. Bigger. They showed up and beat the shit out of the lucha brothers. Oh. A couple of luched doors.

See, now this is what I'm talking about when we talk about entrance racism. They were trying to set up a match for their upcoming... Yeah. Yeah. What did they build a wall around them? Christ. Did not. They super kicked them and then give them some pile drivers. That's...

Oh, metaphor for America right there. It was a super fun time. And I'm better than any Symphony Philharmonic you can come up with. Oh, great. Well, that's... that's disappointing. Yeah. You're an uncultured loon, sir. No way. It was great.

A lot of people kicking each other in the face. Doing weird flips. Those could not be more diametrically opposed things. Do you want to go to the Symphony Orchestra tonight? No, let's go see professional wrestling. One same difference. One fan in the front row got fucked up by one of the wrestlers. Oh, really?

He touched him. Like this dude was like... The wrestler touched him or he touched the wrestler. And then he got his ass beat. Oh, yeah. He had his shirt torn in half and punched a couple of times in the face. It was really hard. Same thing happens at the Symphony Orchestra all the time.

All the time. Third chair clarinet gets fucked up. Getting out of line. It was really hard to tell if it was fake or not. Yeah. It was one of those things that I couldn't really like... I didn't respond like, oh, God, or anything. Like, this might be incredible.

Like, totally staged. Right. Anything at a professional wrestling show could absolutely be staged. Yeah, yeah. So you go in there with that sort of level of awareness. And I was told from reputable sources that it was absolutely not faked. Yeah. That dude punched the shit out of me.

Okay, that sounds right. It was nuts. Anyway, good times. I know a lot about that show. I don't know anything about that show. I also know a lot about Alex Jones. I don't only know what you tell me about Alex Jones. That's correct.

So, Jordan, today we've got an interesting fun episode to go over. But before we do that, we need to give a shout out to a couple of new donors. People have signed up and are supporting the show. Oh, that's nice. Yeah. So first of all, shiny curry. Thank you so much. You are now a policy wonk.

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Please do. Be kind. So, Jordan, today we are going over January, I'm sorry, December 19th, 2012. That's right. It is another saying. Whoa, four in a row. Yes. Okay.

You're becoming addicted to this. A tiny bit because I had feelings and suspicions that things were going to start moving a little faster. I wanted to stick with it, but I also 100% intended to do a present day episode for today. Yeah. I listened to a good bit of Alex's shows a couple days worth and I'm not going to cover it. I'm just not. I'm not going to engage with it. Okay, okay.

I'm not defending myself to you, nor the audience, but I think it deserves an explanation. Okay. One of the reasons that I refused to a defense, if you will, maybe if you want to play semantical veins, I'm sorry. A lot of the episodes that I've been listening to, they'll end up like I start listening to him like, guys, this is bullshit. And then an hour later, I'll realize he's still talking about the same thing. And a lot of the stuff that he's been covering is trying to perpetuate the idea that all hate crimes are fake because of the Jesse. Oh, no. Oh, yeah.

No, let's not cover that. No, I'm out. We won't. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, at least not right now. Right. And it's one of the reasons that I find that like dealing with the present day stuff, at least this last week especially, incredibly difficult to figure out an angle on. Yeah.

Because quite frankly, I don't know what's going on with that story. It's an incredibly confusing story. Every time there's an update, it's like, oh, he totally paid off those guys. And then the most recent update is like, no, he was sending people text messages, giving them support for like food and money. And a workout plan. And you're like, whatever, you guys figure this out and then I'll have a take. Right, right. I'm torn in between two worlds of a lot of the details of the story sound wild.

But that doesn't mean they're not true. Of course they sound wild. It's a wild story. On the other hand, I have zero trust of the Chicago Police Department. So I can't make heads or tails of this and I refuse to take a side on it. And I can't, I can't deal with Alex Jones's bullshit with that space, you know, with that perspective. Because I was trying to, I was wrestling with trying to figure out a way to like still do an episode about it, but leave room for whatever the actual reporting on this is, is yet to come.

Right. So I was like, you know, I can go over tons of hate crime statistics and stuff like that. And we have done that in the past. Well, that would just be a rehashing of stuff. I just think about like, oh, well, why don't I do a breakdown of the 2017 Department of Justice report about the Chicago Police Department? That wouldn't be a bad idea. It wouldn't, but there's no clips in there. Those motherfuckers are evil as shit.

It would just be me reading about how they found it was unconstitutional policing on a mass level. All over that. They have a dark site for torturing people. Right. So I just, as I was listening to those episodes, I just became increasingly frustrated and like whatever, whatever we can bring to that conversation is not now. It will be later when we know what the story is. Right.

And but to, to choose an angle on it now is irresponsible. And I think that one of the reasons that like, it's not like we haven't been aware of this story. We haven't talked about it on the show because it would be wrong to. Yeah. It's one of the, it's one of the times where it's like, I'm so grateful we don't do a new show because every part of this story, you see how shitty all of the media and everything really is. Everybody like everybody involved. Everybody involved in this story is doing a shit job at it.

There's a lot of jumping to conclusions. A lot of, a lot of people sensationalizing this and maybe not a lot of that is the media in terms of the sensationalizing some of it is. Yeah. And then a lot of it is just the bouncing, the ping pong ball of Twitter going back and forth. Bad faith actors, bad faith arguments on just flying. Right. And so until there's more clarity on that, I don't want to talk about it.

And Alex is talking about it a fucking ton. Of course. It makes things so much simpler when you can blame black people for her problems. So I check in with the president and I waste a bunch of hours and I'm like, I'm not doing this. So we retreat back to 2012. And we're retreat. Well, because there's a clarity to it of time. Right.

Right. It makes it, it makes it much more doable. No, I understand, but you understand. It is weird. The irony. It is. It is pretty weird. So we're talking here about the 19th of December.

Yeah. And last we left off, Alex was pretty much, you know, he's made it clear that he is all about defending guns on top of that. On our last episode, it became very clear that he was easing himself into solidly saying that he believed that the government did it. He's getting really close to saying that the victims were actually made of Play-Doh and the government killed them as a, yeah. So here's where we start off on the 19th.

Alex discusses some games that he likes to play with his staff members. Yeah, of course. And let me tell you something. It's always many times worse than I even know. In fact, I've had a little sick game around the office. It's really an journalistic action. The sickest thing you can think of. We'll search engine and the government's doing it.

What? They're doing everything. They folks. What? Let me get back to this. Okay. Even without Congress, Obama could act to restrict guns. That's a headline.

That's just people talking like articles about like, what could he do without the full government? It's not important. It's not as important as the game of what's the sickest thing you can think of. I guarantee the government's doing it. I'm pretty sure if you were to actually play that game by the rules that you've said, you would all be at the very least on a watch list. Perhaps. Also, it leads me to think that perhaps his staff lacks creativity.

Because if the sickest things that they can think of are things that they can prove with a Google search that the government is doing, they aren't very creative. That's a good point. I think that speaks to a bad staff. You're not good at this game. No. So I started with that because it's a little bit. What do you know?

A little weird. A little weird. It's the sickest thing you could think of. A little low stakes on that first clip. Furby's saying the n-word? The government's doing it. No! Yep.

There's a whole department in Idaho. It's staffed with racist furbies. Norcom. So I recognized as I was editing the last episode that it really hurt us emotionally. I think, or at least me, that I started with 10 minutes of that Gladio breakdown. Yeah. As opposed to starting with something that's inconsequential. So I threw that in there now.

And now in clip two, Jordan. You fucking, you softballed us? You lulled us into a false sense of security? It's more about hitting the ground with a little bit of momentum as opposed to just getting thrown out of a moving car. Yeah. That's, instead you're giving us ice cream and then throwing us out of a moving car. Hey, put that ice cream on your wounds.

Help soften it up. So in this second clip, Jordan, we find out that Alex Jones, we've speculated that Alex needed cover in order to make audacious claims about Sandy Hook. Yeah. He needed some sort of cover and we've theorized that maybe it is those weirdos like Wolfgang Halbeg or something like that. I think in this next clip, Alex has found his cover, but it's not some sort of external thing.

It's an underling that he's going to throw under the bus. I don't know if he does, but he probably should if you're smart. And by the way, Rob do did a report last night with news clips with eyewitnesses. These aren't rumors saying, Oh, I saw the guy in the camo in the bag and you know, he said, I'm not the one and the cops took him away and they won't say who he is. And yeah, it looks like the guy that was in the school with the other person folks, they did this. What you do and remember all the over a hundred FBI deals, even mainstream media admitted

where they would go find mentally ill people and give them a bomb, train them, take them to bomb the Christmas tree and Portland or whatever. And then it came out. They were setting up mentally ill people and this guy was now under psychiatric daily visits. He was about to be committed. He's going. He's on these drugs.

Undoubtedly. He's a windup toy. They bring him in. They kill him. He's wearing a mask. The real shooters kill X full trade out. I mean, they've done it before. So Alex is now had a has a Rob do special report from the nightly news.

Yeah, that is enough. He is now not just saying like it's my gut. He's saying they did this. Yep. That's pretty right. We've taken it down, right? It down the 19th of December. It's all fucking Rob do.

Yep. So Rob do has this story that Alex is reporting on and we see that Alex has definitively turned the corner. He's not saying that his gut is saying this is fake. He's reporting that it's fake. All it took was this Rob do dick. I say that as if I don't know who he is. Yeah.

His asshole Rob do we ever hear about this Rob do character? All it took was him producing a special report that Alex could point to his proof that things don't add up. The conspiracy angle that they decided to take is the the idea of the second shooter specifically the guy who is seen being arrested in the woods in camo. Right. As Alex is describing. Right, right, right.

As it turns out the police detained a number of people in the woods on December 14th. It kind of makes some sense if you look at the area around the school while it would be unfair to say that the Sandy Hook Elementary is surrounded by woods. It wouldn't be too far off. Most of the schools north north to west side was woods as well as the east southeast side with only one paved driveway leading to the school. With that road obviously blocked off the woods became preferable way to reach the school for people who had reason to want to be there.

That was the case for two reporters who were trying to get better coverage than they were being allowed to at that point. The police confronted them guns drawn questioned them and released them. This isn't the case. Alex is thinking of I just bring it up to highlight that there was a lot going on that day. What Alex is doing here is he's relying on the unreliability of firsthand accounts of crises in order to create the narrative that he wants to deliver. In this case he's combining two people into one story and possibly even three.

It's even possible that he's not doing that intentionally. It's just ultimately how reporting goes when you go too hard too early when you don't have any of the facts. Right. One of the things Alex is probably operating off is early reports about Chris Banfordonia. Chris was a parent who was on the way to the school to make gingerbread houses with the first grade class when he heard popping noises. All right that's that's a crazy thing that's that's like that's like he's five days away

from retirement. I'm amazed he didn't get killed in the situation too. He tried to get into the school checking a few windows and doors before police approached him told him to get on the ground and handcuffed him. He was detained briefly but was released and reunited with his daughter who was hiding in a classroom. Another man who was detained and cuffed briefly was described by a firsthand witness to TV reporters on the scene and here is the description.

So this man also didn't come out of the woods. by this firsthand witness. He didn't come out of the woods and was being interviewed by police who determined him to be an idiot who was in the wrong place. He saw flashing lights got really curious and decided to check out what was going on but had nothing to do with the shooting which was long over by the time he was detained. You poor dumb bastard. That would suck so hard to have to oh my god to walk by parents grieving children and handcuffs

them looking at you thinking that it's literally the worst situation that curiosity could bring you to but you never expect that's what you're going to walk into. We all have had situations in our lives where we're like trying to peek at some cop pulled somebody over on the highway or whatever. And if this was high school if like if this was in our time in the late 90s when we would have been in high school you could have been there would have been high school kids walking in the woods looking for thrown away porn mags like any one of them could have walked out of the woods.

Yeah exactly. Oh that's so fucked. Yeah it's crazy. Oh my god. So the police interviewed him searched him and his car and since he wasn't involved in the horrific crime that had just occurred they decided not to release his name which I think is a really good call. So smart.

Really good call. Oh my god. So we don't know who this guy is necessarily and I don't I don't think there's anything all that suspicious. He was dressed in camo pants in a dark jacket which is very likely where Alex is getting that detail from. Of course. The story about this guy.

Alex is getting the idea of the man in the woods from a different report of the man found in the woods. But in the chaos of the day and the imprecise reporting that came out of it something completely benign became incredibly suspicious. The man who was supposedly found in the woods was an off duty policeman in plain clothes who was responding to the incident. There's a bit of confusion because he wasn't in uniform he didn't run from the police or get arrested.

People were just confused because of how it appeared for two uniformed cops to be running with a non uniformed cop. It made it look like a chase when the three of them were actually running together. So yeah it gave the appearance of a chase but it was not. Ultimately there wasn't anything to any of this. The supposed second shooters and people in the woods ideas are all easily explained once the information starts to trickle in and this really highlights one of the main problems with what Alex Jones does.

He constructs narratives out of the suspicions that are only reasonable because of the absence of information available. I could have a conversation with him now about the second shooter idea and how it's stupid but if I were in studio on December 19th 2012 if he asked me who was that guy I could only respond with I don't know we'll see. Yeah some guy. And that's where the propagandist has the ultimate advantage. Their willingness to weaponize the unknown.

Once all the information is out they can't control the narrative to suit their purposes so when there's a situation like this it's of the utmost importance that they act fast. In that time when the concrete is still wet they can carve whatever initials they want and it'll leave an imprint forever but if they wait too long the concreteness of information that is solidified will make it impossible for them to make it dead. Nice metaphor. Thanks. This brings into focus also what I feel about Alex's coverage of Jesse Smallett right now.

You know he's playing with the uncertainty of information and he has the advantage now because of that. When there's more information he won't have that advantage no matter what the story ends up being but for now for me to cover his take on it I would be the guy in studio saying I don't know. I don't know. Oh man. So there's no there's no way to tackle that.

God it's so hard to because you can immediately put yourself into that position of like some random ass coincidence and if the cops had released that guy's name he might be dead by now easily like he could easily have been murdered by one of the by one of the people giving death threats to the parents of the people who are being oh god there's a hundred possibilities. Jesus that is so fucking terrible. Just a coincidence makes you oh geez I hope I don't walk by anything. I'm not going to walk anywhere ever again.

I mean I think it's my understanding that Chris Manfredonia's name is only public because he ended up giving interviews. I don't know if the police released his name either. Right. But like I don't know. I think it's probably one of the rare not super rare but kind of not as common as we would like moments of police being like right on right. Do not let people know who they protect this guy because you've turned him into a target.

Yeah. He just wandered. Yeah. Yeah. That reminds me so much of the the Patrice O'Neill. You remember the old Patrice O'Neill bit where he's like I never litter because I don't want the chance of like I toss a receipt into the into the bushes and then there's a dead body and now I'm suspect number one like that's that's exactly that.

So now to Alex's other idea about the FBI setting people up and that shit. So while it is true and I'm not going to argue that the FBI doesn't have a real dicey history in terms of setting people up for stuff. I find it absolutely hilarious that the only example Alex can come up with is this Christmas tree bombing. Yeah. Do you remember that? No.

So he's referring to the 2010 car bombing plan in Portland that was to take out their Christmas tree lighting ceremony. This was an instance of a would be terrorist unknowingly working with an FBI agent who was undercover to plan the attack. The FBI made sure that the bomb was incapable of detonating. And after Mohammed Osman Mahmoud used his like a phone to set off the inert bomb. He was arrested. Yeah.

So. Which is kind of bullshit. Mm hmm. That that is a story of the FBI post 9 11 all too often is a lot of the times and not a lot of the time. But a practice that has been covered and talked about is that the FBI would find potential and in order to justify their expanded budget, they would essentially teach the terrorist how to make a bomb and then ask him to do the terrorism and then arrest him after he

was caught. There are plenty of examples of that. Yeah. That is true. And this this event actually set off an interesting debate about whether or not the FBI had entrapped Mahmoud seeing as agents had been in contact with him for months after he came up on their radar. And he was on said radar because he wrote for a publication called Jihad Recollections

and was in contact with a man in Pakistan who was known to the FBI as being a terrorist recruiter. Dear Jihad Recollection, I never thought this would happen to me. Not a bad bit, not a bad bit. So they knew that entrapment would be a good defense for Mahmoud. And since things if they should things ever reach that point, the undercover agents were overly cautious and tried to talk him out of the attack. From an article in Washington Monthly, quote, aware of entrapment legal defenses, undercover

agents offered Mahmoud multiple alternatives to mass murder, including mere prayer. But he insisted he wanted to play a, quote, operational role and even picked his target. Told he'd likely kill a lot of children, Mahmoud said, Yeah, I mean, that's what I'm looking for. Though I don't know how I feel about how embedded within the agents were. This is not a good example of the FBI inventing terrorists out of whole cloth. Right. He made his intentions to commit a violent mass casualty event totally clear, independent

of and prior to the FBI getting involved. There are better examples Alex could have chosen for sure. But most of the examples he would be able to come up with are minorities or left-leaning groups who have been selectively targeted by law enforcement. The story he wants to tell is one of right-wing oppression at the hands of a federal government who's labeled them all the terrorists. But reality doesn't match up with that. In a 2012 article in Rolling Stone by Rick Perlstein, he lays it out really well.

The goal of these FBI entrapments and pseudo entrapments is one of storytelling. Because they're involved on some level, the FBI can control how the bust goes down, at what point the plot is disrupted, whether there's media attention or not, etc. They can essentially use the investigation to help them tell the story they want the public to hear, to get them to focus where they want them to focus. That's why, from the 60s until the present day, these things are almost exclusively used against left-leaning groups like Occupy and the anti-war movement, with Muslims being a very common target in the past 20 years or so.

But it's never the right-wing groups. They do this too. Right-wing terror plots are generally found out after the case, after something goes wrong on their own, or they carry out the plot, or someone from the group defects. They flip, and tell the law enforcement about it. There are so many examples of white nationalist, white supremacist groups in the last 30 years or so, and none of them had to do with the FBI prodding them to carry out whatever attack they were.

They were willfully ignored by law enforcement, even on a federal level. Like the National Guard asshole, and these aren't the ones that they want to publicize because they don't fit the narrative that they're trying to present. They fit the right story. Yeah. So Alex is weird. He's weird. This Sandy Hook garbage is garbage, but Rob Doe has made that story, so now he has cover

to jump whole hog into, this was fake, the government did it. The whole thing is fake. Thanks to Rob Doe, intrepid investigative reporter Rob Doe. Yeah. And so now Alex, I think he feels pretty comfortable about this now. I think he's sort of landed smoothly into the position of, all right, I can say it's fake. I can say it's fake now.

Yeah. If you want to play that clip for the, uh, is this fake, it's pretty solid. Right. Right. I think it's still is in the ballpark of like, I don't think you could sue him for it unless you were the government or something like that. It's not crisis actor yet, but it's, it's definitely him. Like anytime he's like, we have debates, no, you just literally said this, they staged

it. And that's something I'm starting to think about is like, I think the debates might be real, but I don't think they're the way he wants to present them. I'm starting to suspect that the debates were people, uh, like Alex was saying the government killed all these kids and then other people saying they're all fake. Right. Those were the real debates. Not it was real.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think he likes to present. It was just how fake was it? Exactly. What version of fake was it?

Well, they weren't debates. I bet there were, it was a narrative progression of him having guests on, uh, and people saying they were all actors or whatever. Yeah. Um, so I don't know. I think, I think that the debate thing is, is a, is sort of a, uh, fun house mirror of reality that we're seeing now, but that's still that to me, even Alex saying the government went in and killed those kids, killed all the kids.

It's disgraceful and disgusting, but it's what you'd expect from Alex. And I think it's safe ground for him. Like, I don't think it's legally actionable. I think it's disgusting. I think it's exploitative, but I still don't think like, I think it's what he does. I think that's his brand. Yeah. I don't think you can be, I don't think there's anything you can be charged with if you just

say the government did it. Like, like that's borderline. That's just like saying the government, uh, killed Kennedy, right? You know, like, I mean, and they definitely killed Robert Kennedy, but we don't know about John. It's him saying the government did any of the thousands of things that he says that they did. Exactly.

Yeah. So, I mean, it's kind of just like, if the narrative never progresses from there, which we know it does, it would still be like, I'm, I'm just, I'm put off by, you're a disgusting human being, you're a complete monster, um, but it's still not like, it's still not career defining fumble level, like, like, like it will be. And they find that fascinating, find that really interesting. Yeah. It's a, it's another situation where he doesn't know when to end a paragraph.

If you just, if you just said it was fake and then put a period at the end of it, we'd all hate you and we'd all move on. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, the reason that he has to do these things and he has to keep diving in is because he's in pain when he sees what's going on in the world. So painful for him. And it is so painful to see the fact that our country has gotten to this point.

And he's in the grip of hardcore mafia that is dangling 20 dead, sad little children and their families and the sadness they're going through in our face to terrorize us and say, you're not a good person. If you don't turn your guns in, you're not a good person. If you don't go along with all of this, you are a bad person. If you don't submit to all of this tyranny, you are a bad person. If you don't submit to at least reasonable gun fucking control laws, you're a bad person. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, or you're a bad person if this is the way you behave in the face of a tragedy and crisis. Right. Right. This is you're a bad person not because of your gun positions, but because of how you're behaving. Yeah.

I would say. Yeah. Exactly. That's kind of how I would, I would rewrite that. Right. That's, that is another one of his classic like, oh, you don't understand why we're calling you a bad person. You just went, these sad little kids, right?

Like that's the bad person part dangling them out in front of us. Yeah. Yeah. No, no, no, no. You're a bad person days, days ago, right, 20 families, way more than that were irrevocably changed. Yeah. Every, so many people's lives were completely destroyed and you're like, they're dangling

these dead kids in front of us to terrorize us when I haven't read any of the fucking articles I even talk about, about the perceived tyranny that's coming. Whoopty shit, Alex, you're, that's a bad person. That is a really bad person. That is the type of person who, if you were, if you met them in a bar and they said one sentence, you'd be like, nah, I'm out of here. You're fucking gross. Yeah.

You're fucking gross. Yup. So, uh, speaking of bad people, Alex now has a guest on who he's already had on since Sandy Hook. He has Larry Pratt back on. Oh boy. Right. Right.

Right. Right. That's his organization. The more extreme version of the NRA, um, and Alex is having him on because the night before Larry went on Piers Morgan's show and Piers Morgan called him a fucking idiot. Right. Cause he is. Well, he, cause he, I don't like being, I don't like being involved in that because

Morgan is a fucking idiot too. Totally. It's one of these things like let him fight. But Piers Morgan was talking about how like, uh, you know, we, we should have some sort of gun reform and that sort of conversation. Larry Pratt is like, look what happened in England. You guys took the guns and crimes through the roof, all that stuff. And we're going to talk about that in a second, but first Alex is going to make that point

and Larry is going to agree with him. I just need to establish that to prove how fucking stupid these people are. What about the fact that, I mean, England's crime rate doubled after they took guns. I just showed their own numbers. They're the most dangerous country in Europe who's the safest Switzerland with more guns per capita than we've got. Does not compute. That just doesn't fit inside the cranium of the normal, uh, liberal thinker.

So the UK violent crime rate doesn't fit inside my cranium. Let's see if that's fits inside yours. I don't think it can. So Alex is using statistics out of context to argue that the UK made restrictions to gun ownership and then violent offense numbers jumped dramatically. If you just look at the raw numbers, you can make that argument, but in order to do so, you have to ignore literally all of the context surrounding those numbers and numerous investigations and publications put out by parliament.

In 1997, the UK passed the firearms amendment act of 1997. Prior to this, there were regulations in place about registration and whatnot, but this act effectively banned private ownership of handguns. This act was passed in part as a response to the Dunblane school massacre where a man entered a school, shot 16 students between the ages of five and six, shot a teacher and then killed himself. This is referred to as the UK's first and only school shooting, possibly because they took action.

I just had to take a big, deep breath there. You read that sentence and you were like, I'm just going to let Jordan take a big breath. Let's just breathe on that one, Dan. So that's some of the backdrop for why the firearms act was considered, but it doesn't provide the necessary context to understand and explain why Alex is lying about crime rates. And if he were a serious person at all, he would have every reason to know what I'm about to tell you.

In 1998, parliament pushed through changes in how police departments were to count crime statistics. Prior to this, there was no real standardization between departments, so you ran into issues where an identical crime could be classified completely differently depending on what department investigated it. This obviously led to completely unreliable information and an unclear portrait of what crime in the UK actually looked like. So it's a little bit like the difference between crime reporting in, you know, like

Chicago and crime reporting in Joe Arpaio's neck of the woods where crime reporting in Chicago would include rape, and in Joe Arpaio's world, they're like, that doesn't even really happen. On a basic level, perhaps, yes, very, similarly, yes, and there was nothing in place that would be encouraging them to standardize or anything like that. So they made new counting rules and introduced the national crime recording standard, which led to a large jump in crime stats, including a 118% jump in violent crime alone. Part of this was because departments were now required to include indictable and possibly

indictable crimes in their statistics. And they also changed their reporting to reflect one crime report for each crime or victim as opposed to one crime per criminal. That is to say, if I went out and stabbed three people, that would be counted as three crimes now, whereas before it would have just been one. Right, that makes fucking perfect sense. Then in April 2008, the Home Office made another change to the way they countered offenses that would lead to a large jump in statistics of serious violent crimes.

They began to include, quote, gross bodily harm with intent as a serious violent crime, whereas previously it would not have been. So all the hooligans finally got picked up, essentially. Maybe. This boils down to situations where the assailant intends to do gross bodily harm, but fails to do so. That would not have been considered an instance of gross bodily harm assault previously and now was.

This change came as the result of a 2006-2007 assessment by a cross-party review board that determined that the definition of violence was not defined clearly enough, and to get a better picture of crime as it exists, it would be wise to include attempted violence and credible threats of violence as counting as serious crimes. This alone led to a massive spike in reports of serious violent crimes, with no actual additional crimes being committed. Statisticians have analyzed the data, and their assessment is largely that crime is fairly close to flat, or even down, but that there's an outward appearance that has been

on the rise since 1998 because of these changes to how crimes are reported and counted. It's the same fucking autism shit all over again. And we talked about this with Sweden, too, how they count crimes changed at a certain point. It makes it look like there's a massive increase. Unfortunately, 1998 is right after the UK essentially banned handguns. So all the optics are in place for Alex to take these statistics totally out of context and present the image that they banned guns, then boom, violent crime went through the

roof. Either Alex doesn't know this explanatory context, in which case he's an idiot and doesn't understand the issues he covers, or he does know about this, and he's intentionally lying about it, and neither are good. Neither are a good situation. No, and even then, based on what we know now, it's hard to come down anywhere other than both at the same time. Like he's ignorant of all the stuff other than the fact that stuff would disprove what

he's saying. He knows that what would disprove what he's saying exists, but he does not bother to learn about it. It would be too threatening to know. Exactly. So you stay. It's almost plausible deniability kind of thing. Yeah.

Yeah, possibly. I mean, it's impossible to know for sure. But yeah, I err on the side if he doesn't know just based on the fact that I think he's more stupid and reactionary than he is conniving. Yeah. I think that's probably a fair, I mean, there's still some conniving in him. Don't get me wrong. Yeah.

I don't know. I don't know. Base cunning, if you will. And it changes day to day, but in this next clip we find that he has been so intense since Sandy Hook about how he knows that there's like the war coming, because the globalists are going to come take his guns and everything, that he has been mean to his kids. That doesn't surprise me. No, that part doesn't at all.

But where the clip goes did not make me happy. I'm usually nice to the crew. I'm going to be honest with you. I got to be nice to my wife and kids too, because, you know, my son was up here yesterday and you know, he'd come over and pat me on the shoulder and I'd be like, where, hold on. And I've never been like that in my life. And it's because I am in total war mode.

Come on. Okay. So we all patriots, we've all got to be nice to each other and we've all got to be nice to her husbands and wives and our crew members and all of us. I know. Period. Period. We go evil when we see it.

But let's keep the ammo downrange because I got to tell you, I mean, at a sixth sense animal level, I know I'm under attack. And I knew it was coming before this happened, I told you. I mean, it's on. And folks, my gut tells me they staged this. They bare minimum, that guy was a want. Now the police say all the computers have been wiped in Easter bunnies are real. And the other shooters are saying, don't worry about that.

And there were, there were other people. They did it. My gut tells me they did it. This is a different level of my gut told me they did it. This is him reporting it. And then every now and again, bringing his gut into the conversation instead of it being based on his gut. Also fun fact, Alex got divorced like a year after that would, that would, that makes sense.

Yeah. Um, and, uh, they didn't wipe the computers. Adam Lanza tried to destroy his computers before doing the attack. Yeah. And he did not do that totally successfully, although a lot of the information was lost. Is my understanding. I haven't done a deep dive on that yet, but as, as I recall, it was a him who did that. Yeah, that makes sense.

That would make sense. A lot of people do that. Um, so this next clip, uh, I mean, we don't really have much to go on from that last one other than Alex just being weird. Um, but we get, he gets back to, uh, Pierce Morgan, um, and, uh, you know, this is great because this is sort of a prelude to when Alex actually goes on Pierce Morgan's show and does that great publicity stunt that he does. Yeah.

So a dry run of that where on his own show, he screams at Pierce Morgan and tells him to get out of America. That's nice. While Pierce Morgan is calling Larry Pratt a liar on communist news network last night while the foreigner, uh, nothing is foreigners, but I mean, don't come to my country and tell me give up my rights, especially when I had a war with your king over this 200 something years ago, punk, kind of a touchy subject, neither of you were involved in the country. You and Fareed Zarkaria get out, get out you Builderburg crash.

Excuse me, get out of my country scum. I mostly kept that in there cause the excuse me is so weird. He yells, get out of my country. You Builderburg trash excuse me. Get out of my country. You scum. I can't think of any way. You know what?

A lot of people don't want to swear on this show and that includes me and Builderburg trash is the worst insult I can think of. That didn't, that's not going to be a problem for the, the radio stations. No, they had to bleep that out. That's totally bizarre. They had to bleep that out. Excuse me. And then do the exact same thing a second later in Alex's broadcast, Builderburg trash

might as well be the C word, you know, like it's bad. I do agree with you on that. I think that he may feel that way. Yeah, but God, so weird, so weird. Can, can we do that's the type of shit that I do not understand at all. That idea that you have a fucking personal vested interest in the civil war or the, the revolutionary war. I fought a war 200 years ago to kick your king out.

No one was involved with that. Alex is his ancestors race memory. His ancestors still live within his barely chest. You know that he's talked about it a hundred times. We buried the hatchet into Native Americans because both countries are fucking garbage. How about that? That's a conversation he doesn't want to have. No, I doubt it.

But he is the embodiment of all who have come before. And of course, his ancestors are all these great people who did all the revolutions at the very least. Piers Morgan isn't no, but his ancestors were under the king. They were Sirks. They were, they were part, they were red coats. No, here's Morgan's ancestors were the, the red coats. They were at Lexington and Concord when Alex's ancestors kicked their ass.

That doesn't track Alex is sick of it. Who cares? Who cares if it tracks? It feels good to Alex and that's what matters. But neither of your, even your ancestors still didn't really care. They were both just, they were both just working stiffs, man. Or they were all working. Not Alex's, not Alex's ancestors.

They were part of, part of the generals. Part of being under the king is you just have to do what he says. Like you should feel some sort of empathy for the red coats. Alex's family was all about freedom. Uh, Piers's was, uh, tyranny. Oh, damn it. That's all you need to know. It's that simple.

I buy that for little outfits. Um, so Alex loves guns, but he makes a pronouncement in this next clip that I found a bit upsetting about how great guns are. While he's talking, I'm going to be showing statistics where their crime rate exploded in England, highest in Europe ever. They took the guns and how our crime rate is dropping. Guns are saving this country and they are taking each little crime, making it huge on the news to give you the perception, just like jaws made people think there

were great whites eating everybody, five great white deaths a year. Not real folks. This isn't real. Um, I guess, I guess jaws isn't real. That's true. That's true. That's true. Uh, I'm still going to go with Sandy Hook was real though.

Yeah. Yeah. I think that's where I land on the jaws be Sandy hook, uh, argument. Yeah. In terms of the argument that he's putting forth, I will say, I agree with the premise that jaws did cause a lot of people to be afraid of sharks unnecessarily. Isn't that weird? That one of the greatest movies ever made.

I don't know if I would go that far, but it was great. Uh, also wound up having disastrous effects on like the, the sharks weren't even real in that movie. Yeah. Like, and they, we killed millions of sharks because of it. And Alex, uh, at another point in this episode, he re, he revisits this theme and he's talking about her like, after jaws, a bunch of beaches almost went bankrupt.

There was no one coming. I'm like, I used to live in fucking Hawaii. I have family like who live in California. Most beaches don't, it can't fucking charge you to go on the beach. Beaches went bankrupt. Right. Beaches are like parks. Beaches went bankrupt.

Yeah. We had to get rid of all of our sand. I think he, what he probably meant to say is like tourism went down to like tropical places or. The concession stand was struggling, but the beach went bankrupt. Man's last battle against the shores, Dan. Right. Damn crazy shit.

So, uh, he, uh, in this next clip, uh, raises the alarm and puts the word out that it's time for all good men to come to the aid of the party. Oh, that's not good. Calling all patriots, calling anyone who's awake and under globalist mind control, they're stealing the pension funds and plotting the dollar, getting rid of the borders, bringing in world government, total NSA spying 1.6 billion bullets, armored vehicles and treaded tanks being cashed and delivered into all major municipalities in preparation for total war against the

American people, total federalization of police. They're trying to fire all the good cops and everything, but insane people that will give your wife cavity searches without warrants on the side of the road with no probable cause, just randomly. Uh, we are entering authoritarianism. So anything is anything bad happening though. Well, all that stuff's pretty bad. Oh, is that what he was talking about?

Mm hmm. Hmm. I mean, it's all bad, but he's still exaggerating pretty much all of it. Um, the, the reason I played that is the, the calling all, uh, calling all patriots. We're in, we're in authoritarianism and it's like, well, how would someone hear that they would hear that as a call to, especially after like, you know, talk of the revolutionary war and stuff like that, you would obviously hear that as a, it's time to overthrow this fucking government.

Right. They did this terrorist attack on children because they want my guns. It's time to roll. You, you know, you kind of have to, you, you hear that sort of thing and. Especially with the laundry list of supposed crimes, uh, of which many are absolutely true. Some of them are fair. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, the, like, like the military, you're right. Militarization of the police. Absolutely fine point, but it's not to have war on the patriots or something like that. That's where you go off track on the minorities. Alex, you should be for that.

Right. You, you, you're, you're jumping the gun. Yeah. You're supposed to be upset about this later. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. 00:47:17,900 --> 00:47:17,900 00:47:17,900 --> 00:47:21,780 When you got a white guy in charge, but one of the reasons that I, I, I kept it in is because I think that there's like an extremeness to that. And then there's an extremeness in comedy as to what he says immediately after that. So there's that laundry list of things that the government's doing. Um, and then he says this,

and we are entering authoritarianism, but the gun culture laid down by our forebears in a fight against the red coats is now reactivating. And as the number one shows all over TV, and you look at the top 10 shows on cable, half of them are gun shows. Everybody's getting into guns. I told you we've been winning culturally, but the empire was going to strike with everything they've got. So it's interesting.

Why is it that the next thing he says is like, everyone loves gun shows. Like, it's not like he's talking about like a place you go and you can buy a gun under the radar or something like that. He's talking about TV shows about guns. Yeah. Yeah. So you can still find. What is he including in that?

Does he have a vested interest in one of those gun shows? Is there. Well, you can still find the ratings for TV shows back in 2012 and they don't reflect anything close to what Alex is saying. He's presenting the idea that gun shows make up half of the top 10 shows on cable. So deadline is a breakdown of the 2012 TV season on network channels. So I checked that out to see if there were any gun shows on there.

Two and a half guns. Sunday night. Young gun Sheldon Sunday night football came in. Number one Sunday night football guns. Big bang theory was at number two big gun theory. The horribly disappointing show about a futuristic world with dinosaurs in it. That was called revolution came in at number 13. Wait, what show?

You remember revolution? I do not remember revolution like the future, but there's no more electricity. And then there's dinosaurs because they have to go back into the past. It's complicated. All right. It was very disappointing though. The premise got me very excited. Of course.

You thought it would be like lost with dinosaurs. Fill my post-lost world. You're lost. Lost. Yeah. So that came in at number 13. Betty White's prank show off their rockers. What?

Just missed the top hundred coming in at number 101 zero gun program. She had a show called. It was old people pranking people that scene. Uh, in retrospect, that sounds pretty great. Came in at number 101. So no gun programs on there to speak of unless you count something like NCIS as a gun show, which I don't think you would. So if you check in with Nielsen, they have the ratings for network and cable

programming combined and the top 10 most watched programs of 2012 were all number one through eight being NFL football. Number nine was the summer Olympics opening ceremony. And number 10 was the Grammys. Their top 10 ratings for regularly scheduled program was three entries for the NFL, two entries for American Idol, two entries for dancing with the stars, then NCIS, the voice and the show Vegas. They have a top 10 of programs that were recorded to watch later, like on DVRs.

And what do you know, zero gun programs, just mad men, breaking bad, justified fringe, sons of anarchy, American horror story. And of course suits exactly what you would expect. That's, I mean, the shows that people watch. Yeah. That's a cross section of the, the, the masses. Yep. So, uh, of, of whom TV is the opiate.

Mm hmm. So TV guy had put out a list of the top 25 most watched shows of the year. And that includes both network, uh, and cable duck. Dynasty could maybe be called a gun show. That was the only one I was thinking that I remember from that time, having a outsized popularity for how stupid it was. And that one came in at number 21. Well below modern family and post-Charlie Sheen version of a two and a half men.

I'm not sure that qualifies as something that would scare the globalists. That duck dynasties at number 21, right? 00:51:02,820 --> 00:51:03,940 Oh no. So all of that seemed incredibly unsatisfying since it all still involved network shows, even the ones that had both network and cable. And since Alex is specifically talking about cable shows, I didn't feel done. Thankfully, after doing a little more digging, I found a list of the most

watched cable shows of 2012. Interestingly, the article was posted on December 12th. So this should be fresh in Alex's stacks of paper. It's, it's right there. It's only like a week before this. Here's the top 10. You tell me if there's anything on this list that you would call a gun culture show.

Okay. And this is in order. The walking dead, the closer, resilient aisles, major crimes, pawn stars, Rezoli and aisles. Everyone loved it. Dallas, Sons of Anarchy, right? Suits, suits and Jersey Shore. What was Suits about?

I don't remember. Jersey Shore counts as a gun show because they were always taking their shirts off. I go not to the gun show. I think you could make a terrible argument that pawn stars might be like, cause they sometimes have antique guns on it, but it's not regularly. What, uh, would, uh, like shows like a Gundam wing be considered gun shows? No, that's just part of the word.

Um, look, I don't know. I don't think any of those are gun shows necessarily. I mean, I guess Sons of Anarchy, there's violence in it. Major crimes. I'm sure some people got shot. That's just like a procedural drama. I think I was looking through this list. I'm like, I don't know what half of these fucking shows are.

I don't know. I don't, I don't know what suits is. I don't want to know what suits is. Nope. I'm fine with it. I don't know what major crimes is specifically. I know I have a, see now, I, I think of a major pain suits. I got no idea perception.

I have no idea what that was. I don't really know what Rosolion Isles was. I've only heard people make jokes about it. Wait, was Rosolion Isles the one with, uh, Zach from Saved by the Bell and what's his face? Mark Paul Gosselar. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Breckenmeyer.

Yeah. Was that that one? Maybe. That's Franklin and Bash. They're the same fucking show. Yeah. They're all the same show. The Ampersand legal or whatever it is.

Ampersand, uh, the blank and blank is, uh, yeah, it's trouble. I don't know what any of those things are, but I do know what revolution is. Um, cause I was very disappointed by, I'm sorry. So also this, uh, yeah, entertainment weekly article, uh, provides breakdowns for all these different demographics, like adults 18 to 49 and adults 25 to 54. And none of them contain any gun shows. I literally have no idea what Alex is talking about. I can't make sense of it.

It does not track with any of the actual statistic keeping, uh, places. Yeah. That's kind of infuriating that you can just say that that is almost legally actionable, like that, like all of television should be able to sue him for libel. It's weird. I was very confused and I don't know if we're going to find out more about it in a little bit. Oh, I don't know.

Maybe we will, you're looking like a T. So at this point, Alex brings back in another guest he's already had in the aftermath of Sandy Hook and that is Stuart Rhodes, the guy who started the Oath Keepers. Right. He's having these really extreme gun dudes on very regularly. It's almost like, um, you know, I don't know how to describe it, but, uh, ooh, you remember the, when Jimmy Kimmel live first started and he'd have a guest

co-host that would be there for a week. No, he used to have like, it was a week and you'd have like Snoop Dogg was the guest for the week. Uh, I do not watch any of the late night shows. I don't either, but I remember that because I was like 19 when it happened. Oh, okay. It was kind of an innovative, interesting idea.

It feels the same way with this rotating cast of these gun weirdos, like Larry Pratt coming on twice in like three days, uh, Stuart Rhodes coming on twice in like three days. It seems like these are the only people he has any interest in putting, uh, their message for it. Yeah, that makes sense though, because it, in this time, especially, uh, even if he's not doing his own, uh, bookings, uh, which he probably has a hand in, but even if he's not doing them solely, naturally, he would want to

surround himself with the most psychopathic gun people that he can in order to insulate himself from any kind of empathy that he might feel the same way that he's putting that shit out in order to make his listeners afraid and distract them from the tragedy of the situation. He also needs to be distracted. Yeah, that may be the case. Keep, he wants them to keep, uh, him on the straight and narrow, which is neither straight nor narrow.

Um, yeah, it's just a path shaped like a gun. So Alex has Stuart on and he starts at the top of the hour. And as we know, the first segment of the top of each hour is not broadcast on the radio, that's for the station. Yeah. Each radio station gets to do what they want with that first, like six minutes. And so Alex has already said, I want to talk to Stuart Rhodes and then whatever he says, we'll recap it.

That sort of thing. Great. Good radio professional. Yeah. Um, and so as they're going out to break, Stuart Rhodes starts talking about, uh, how like the militias are great and no, he, he, he has a quote from the founding father, no, uh, I don't want to hear it. Well, you're gonna dammit.

And then Alex makes a declaration right as they're going out to break that solves a mystery that I think we've had for a very long time. That's like trans talk that founding fathers said, he said, the, um, Congress has no power to sign the militia. There are swords and every other terrible implement of the soldier or the birthright as an American, the unlimited power. Stay there. I want the full quote when we come back.

That's right. The birthright is military arms. So we've wondered what he means by, uh, your birthright. Well, there it is. Turns out it means military grade arms. Is that just for natural born citizens or are immigrant citizens allowed to also have that birthright? That's a question I can't answer based on Alex's stuff.

You know, I don't know. Hmm. I know what my gut tells me. It's that it's fake. So do you, did you catch the founding father that was being quoted there? Uh, I heard the name, but I couldn't place it. I had to replay it a number of times and I still had to Google and try and find out who he's talking about.

Did he say like trutch something? Tench cocks. Tench cocks? That sounds fake as fuck. We need to retroactively remove that name from founding fathers. It's T-E-N-C-H, uh, C-O-X-E. Boy, I would say on the list of founding fathers, Tench cocks comes in way, way down the list.

I really can't believe that's a real name. In fact, I would go so far as to say he wasn't a founding father at all. He was just a fucking guy who was around in the 1700s who loved militias. That's good enough for Alex and Stuart to consider him one of the great founders of this country. He was a guy who's around. Funnily enough, after the country was founded, cocks declared himself a wig, but then within five years decided he was actually a federalist, which then

helped him secure a position as the revenue commissioner in the Washington administration. Then a few years later, he decided he wasn't really a federalist. Was actually a democratic Republican curiously around the same time, uh, that, uh, someone from that party, Thomas Jefferson was president, who then made him purveyor of public supplies. Great. Great. Because he changed parties so frequently and so opportunistically during the first few years of the country's existence, many began leveling accusations that he was actually a British spy in a Tory.

I'm not sure about those accusations, but I do know that his critics would refer to him often as Mr. Facing Both Ways, which is... All right, guys, guys, founding fathers, fucking pick up your game. Mr. Facing Both Ways. Jesus Christ. As far as nicknames go... You could have called him Janus. You guys knew about history. You guys knew about mythology. As far as nicknames go,

I think that is a better nickname than Mr. Worldwide, which of course is Pitbull. But not as good a nickname as Mr. Steal Your Girl. Not, definitely not as good as Mr. Steal Your Girl. Mr. Facing Both Ways is the hero of your roads. That is the weakest shit. It was pretty scathing at the time. Yeah, I believe it was scathing at the time. Mr. Lies out of his face all the time.

Also, Tench Cox was widely credited... I still can't believe that's a name. Yeah, he was widely credited with pushing for cotton to be the main crop grown into the American South. It's worth mentioning that he was opposed to slavery as he wrote in a letter from 1808. Quote... To his wife, Trunch Dix. Quote...

Were the slave trade right, safe and constitutional? A single year would give us the cotton business, which they do now, referring to other countries. But as labor is and is likely to be in America, we shall make a progress a little slower, but not less certain in transferring to our hands much of this business of raising those supplies. Though philosophically opposed to slavery, Cox's actions in rallying for and lobbying towards a Southern economy, largely based on cotton, ended up being

one of the greatest drivers towards the rationalization of an acceptance of slavery in America. From PBS, quote, within 10 years of the cotton gin being put into use, the value of the total United States crop leaped from $150,000 to more than $8 million. This success of this plantation crop made it much more difficult for slaves to purchase their freedom or obtain it through the goodwill of their masters. From 1790 to 1810, close to 100,000 slaves moved to a new, the new cotton

lands in the South and West. From 1810 until the Civil War, 100,000 slaves were forced westward each decade, a half a million in total. As cotton cultivation spread, slaveholders and the tobacco belt, whose crop was no longer profitable, made huge profits by selling their slaves. This domestic slave trade devastated black families. American born slaves were torn from the plantations they had known all their lives, placed in shackles and forced marched hundreds of miles away from

their loved ones. The enslaved populations in cotton producing states saw increases of 27.5% per decade in the early 1800s, and it can all be traced back to the exact problem that Tench Cox was clearly aware of in his 1808 letter, namely that if we do this reasonably, it'll take a while. If we had slavery, we could take over this market in a year. Yeah. It's a labor question.

It's one of the, it's one of the things that I hate now thinking about, uh, in regards to like your, well, no, that's a fun name to think about. I know in regards to like your elementary school education where you're like, and one of the biggest inventions of the time was Eli Whitney's cotton gin, and they didn't provide that, uh, asterisks next to it. Footnote, Eli Whitney's cotton gin led to a massive explosion in slavery. And it's a horrifying thing. Yeah.

Yep. And Tench Cox wanted cotton to be king. Yeah. Unintended consequences, perhaps. So speaking of that 1808 letter I was telling you about, they're a little bit from, yeah, Cox has an interesting rationale for what benefits there were to getting into the cotton market. Quote, the Southern militia, as it is conceived, would acquire the spirit of

a core, the state governments, uh, if the state governments were to make a blue cotton cloth with white or yellow cotton under the clothes this spring, summer and autumn for peace uniforms, it would certainly take, uh, at this moment, if introduced under impressive auspices and would have effects equally important in the good of the militia, uh, natural manufacturers and this great and novel, novel cultivation, though opposed to slavery, Tench Cox is at least partially directly responsible for creating the market where slavery exploded and got way, way worse.

And his reasons for that, we could make, uh, where he could make a lot of money and that the Southern militia could get cool uniforms. Yeah. That sounds a lot like a founding father though. Sounds a lot like the store roads. Alex Jones, that has, that has every, uh, that has all the same fucking connotations of our current politicians where they're like, Hey, look, I think climate change is bad.

Yeah. I don't want to move on it though, because I am getting a lot of money and, uh, I think we can make a lot of money if we don't do anything about it. Yeah. That's all I'm saying. But we got, we, you get this, you get this, like you demystify it a little bit. Like, why is Stuart Rhodes quoting Tench Cox as a founding father? Why does Stuart Rhodes know who Tench Cox is?

Well, because he's the motherfucker who inadvertently or like, uh, surreptitiously made slavery super terrible. Uh, and it was a big supporter of the militias. Right. But Mr. Face in both ways. So Jesus. But, but then that means that what he is reading about in history is the guys who

made slavery worse and, but I think he just ignores that part. Right. Right. Making slavery worse part isn't a calculus for him. No, it's just about like, Oh yeah, he wanted cotton to be awesome. So that these awesome Southern militias could get uniforms. Right. But that's, that speaks to the part that would be covered in the book that they

would be interested in reading. Exactly. That's what I'm saying. You and I have never heard of Tench Cox because we're not reading crazy militia fucking deifying books. I might have heard of him at some point, but you think you'd remember the name. You would have to remember that on my deathbed. I'll be like, dude, Tange Cox.

That'll be stupid name. Yeah. Like, what is he talking about? Tange Cox. That's that sounds so fucking stupid. God, oh, wild man. Little interesting history lesson. Anyway, in this next clip, Alex gets back to the laundry list of things that he

has to be upset about. Right. Such as the founding father, clenched butts. This has more to do with the oppression of gun culture. Oh, okay. Sorry. Stores from Walmart to Dix are saying we're not going to sell semi-auto. Cheaper than dirt, biggest online seller of guns.

Not going to sell guns. Three discovery channel shows canceled in 24 hours. One of them, the second highest rated on the network. Uh-huh. Now we have a new clue to what he's talking about. All right. TV show. All right.

He's talking specifically about discovery and history channel TV. Now we can, well, not history. It's all discovery. So we can find what are the shows that were canceled in 2012 that he might be talking about. The three shows Alex could be talking about here getting canceled are American chopper, dirty jobs, and American guns. The last one is clearly what he's talking about with the TV shit for this,

this entire time that he's been talking about TV gun shows being so awesome. I should have known it was just some bullshit, uh, or he's like, I like this reality show and it got canceled. Right. Right. All right. He's the firefly fan of a gun shows. It would be easy to assume that the show was canceled because of Sandy Hook,

given the timing of the announcement of its cancellation. But according to deadline sources at discovery said, quote, the decision was quietly made a while ago. However, it didn't come to light until today. It wasn't so much canceled as it was not picked up for a third season. And the reasons given were that the network felt that there wasn't any story left to tell with the characters on the show. And more importantly, their ratings in the second season, quote,

finished down double digits from season one, despite a starts, uh, a strong start to the season. Had a bit of a sophomore slump, a little bit. No more story left to tell about what? Oh, gun people, people who have American guns. It really does seem like that's a quick story. Like you don't even need Ed Burns for that documentary. This type of shit happens every time some gun show or some

bullshit conservative leaning thing gets canceled. All the Alex Jones types take, uh, at the cancellation, uh, there was due to some network decision making that ends up getting the same sort of thing that gets any other show canceled and they repurpose it as proof of a war on conservatives in the media. It's so goddamn lame, but I realized that maybe I should have co-opted that argument to see if I could have got that disappointing futuristic show, the dead dinosaurs in it was called revolution.

See if I could have got it a second season. Maybe they could have figured out and right at the ship. They wouldn't have. No, probably not. No. Anyway, Alex is an idiot and he's just mad that his favorite show, American guns got canceled that had bad ratings. That is so fucking pathetic.

You hear that the way he's talking there, he's like three shows on discovery got canceled. One of them had really high ratings. I would be one of the highest ratings in the network. That's probably dirty jobs. Cause that was a pretty popular show. Yeah. They probably just, but it also was in like it's late seasons.

Right. And my grow is pretty, I don't want to do that anymore. And he's also a conservative douchebag. So that probably was because they were putting it, uh, they were, he made some Facebook posts supporting trickle down economics. Dan, we got to get them off our fucking airwaves. Even if it was has nothing to do with guns, like Alex is presenting it,

but it turns out there's one more show that got canceled. What are we doing? I don't know anymore. They just canceled the other big show. So that's actually four shows, uh, Ted Nugent, high rated, high rate. Nope. Because it was good looking women out there, learning how to shoot, men's shooting, target practice, how to build guns.

I'm telling you, I'm telling you three years, the gun culture has been on fire. Uh, so gun culture has been on fire. Ted Nugent's show is canceled and this is bullshit. Cause it had high ratings, high ratings. I didn't know Ted Nugent had a show. So already that's a bad spoiler alert. He didn't. Uh, okay.

Well, what the fuck is happening? So an interesting thing happens when you search, uh, Google for Ted Nugent show canceled. It turns out that the Nugent is the kind of guy who's pretty familiar with that kind of thing happening. As it relates to his show on discovery, it didn't get canceled. According to discovery, Nugent's, uh, they had a, he had a thing that was on there called gun country.

It was quote always intended to be a one hour special. You know, Jordan, like something that isn't a recurring show, but what? They just did a one off one hour thing, uh, with Ted Nugent and some guns. They also said that it quote fared poorly in the ratings. Nugent claimed that he was working on a series of them, but spokespeople from the network said that is absolutely not true. Interestingly, in other Ted Nugent show cancellation news in 2014, multiple shows on Nugent's tour were canceled.

One of them at an Idaho casino was canceled with the venue citing issues with Nugent being a racist. Really? An Idaho casino? According to billboard, they quote booked Nugent without realizing he espoused racist attitudes and views and they quote did not detail which, uh, of Nugent's specific, uh, specific views it opposes, which is kind of an open question. Since he says so much racist shit, it's hard to pin down.

Yeah. If I listed all of the racist comedians that I've ever met who still work regularly at casinos, it would be a long conversation. So immediately after he loses this gig at the Idaho casino, uh, two more of his shows at Tacoma, Washington's Emerald Queen casino were canceled ostensibly for similar reasons. Yeah. Uh, also in 2012, Ted Nugent was kicked off a concert at Fort Knox being put on

by the goddamn army where he was scheduled to open for REO Speedwagon and sticks. This is in the lead up to the 2012 election back in April of that year. Uh, so the army wasn't thrilled with the recent comments Ted Nugent had made in a video posted on the NRA's official YouTube page quote, if Barack Obama becomes the president November again, I will either be dead or in jail by this time next year. If you can't go home and get everybody in your lives to clean house of this vile

evil American hating administration, I don't even know what you're made of. Considering he'd also, uh, previously called Obama a quote, subhuman mongrel. There's a decent chance that this one should have also been canceled for races, you would think, but also that's a fucking threat that he's got to murder the president. That's pretty much exactly what that is. Yeah. Also, just because it's fun, the day before Ted Nugent was kicked off this

Fort Knox concert, he'd come to a plea agreement on charges he was facing for illegally killing a black bear in Alaska and transporting it across state lines. Strangely enough, he'd killed that bear for an episode of his show, Spirit of the Wild, that aired on the outdoor channel, which would give any network thoughts about having him on your network, even leaving aside all the stuff about how he clearly likes underage girls. It's a flaming racist. Well, I'd never kill a polar bear.

Might you might. Those are, those are white. It turns out he, he also beyond all the, like just humanity, disrespecting things about him. He also doesn't respect nature and responsible hunting the way he pretends to. It's almost like that's all just a character of these people where to be able to go kill things.

It's kind of like that's what they're really into. Ted Nugent is a real piece of shit. Yeah. He's a real piece of shit. He's a bull, he's an asshole. Onion. There's layers to it. He's like, oh, we could talk for days about how fucked up he was with how

fucked up Ted Nugent was. I knew all I needed to know. And now there's more pieces of his ass. Holary. Oh yeah. Also in a moment of delicious irony in July, 2018, Ted Nugent himself banned guns at his concert at the Berglund center in Virginia. The venue is city owned.

So management cannot deny open carry permits of citizens unless it's specifically requested by the performer, the manager of the club, Robin Seon, uh, said that the request came from Nugent's team. Quote, given the things that have happened at nightclubs like Pulse and what happened at Manchester, Nugent security people are taking extra precautions. When the subject of guns came up, Nugent's people said, Oh, no, our agreement says no. During the show, which was far from sold out, Nugent used his stage pattern to talk about how great he is, which isn't a surprise.

He also used the time to specifically insult a man named Andy Parker. Parker's daughter and coworker were murdered at Bridgewater Plaza by a disgruntled former coworker who shot them. So Parker decided to buy a billboard calling Nugent a draft dodging racist has been, uh, yeah, no, I agree with all those. So Nugent took to the stage and said, quote, if I get too political, fuck you. This is dedicated to everybody, including those dumb motherfuckers who are protesting me because they're still grieving.

When you lose a loved one, we pray for you. When you lose, uh, when you lose a loved one, we prayed for him, didn't we? How the fuck do you hate the Nugent family when we're praying for you? You dumb fuck. So many ways, so many ways. I can, oh man, I can list a whole long list. Oh, so many ways. Can I hate you, Ted Nugent?

I would say a classy move would just be ignore it. Ignore the billboard. Don't go on stage and start screaming with this dumb motherfucker who's still grieving. Yeah. He doesn't strike a good tone there with the whole, Hey, Hey, look at this idiot still grieving the death of his family or whatever it is like that. I said a prayer for him and then worked my ass off to make sure that this will continue to happen.

Exactly. And he thinks I'm some sort of asshole. Uh, the issue is that the reason that Nugent, uh, would be mad at this guy is because he's bringing up the idea that he's associated with the NRA and these people make gun registration, gun regulation impossible. And then it is so funny that at this concert where he's screaming about this guy, his team had said no guns in the venue, which makes it now a disarmament zone, that all these people are so afraid of, you have no guns there.

Now you're sitting ducks for the guns. So Nugent claimed that he said all guns were welcome and that the venue and the evil media are lying to which the venue replied, quote, we stand by what we said Tuesday night and this is the end of our Ted Nugent story. I thought that the answer to bad people with guns is good people with guns. I thought they'd like, if you're afraid of the Pulse nightclub shooting, then you should, you should have more good people. You're fans there with guns.

Oh, are you actually don't, you actually don't believe that you banned guns at your own fucking concert. Well, he doesn't want to get hurt. Of course not. Stupid sons of bitches. Yep. I hate this shit. I hate him.

I hate that. Yep. You find something like that. That's what really sets me off. Like that to it, to an extent that I usually don't get too worked up, but that sort of thing, someone like motherfucking Ted Nugent, one of the worst pieces of shit in the world between his clear love of underage women, his violent threats towards public officials, his overt racism, his clear inability to live by

his own principles as it relates to preservation of wilderness and nature, which is supposed to be his big thing. And why he loves guns and crossbows so much is because it's like, oh, I respect nature and help with the balance and all that shit. All that stuff's hypocrisy. And then you have an instance like this where it's like, I fear for my own safety. Exactly what you said. And so I say no guns at the venue where I'm at.

That's not even a principle for you. You stupid asshole. Like you make it so everyone else gets hurt and then you wield what power you have to try and insulate yourself from your own fans. It's fucking bullshit. People should be deeply ashamed of themselves. If they could feel shame, they would not be themselves. That is the underlying issue there.

I'm not a fucking cowardly nonsense of like, I didn't say that. I didn't say that. Oh, that is so cowardly. Fake news. That is so. Fake news. I'm a big fan of any, any, any pithy statement, simply because of its brevity. Just that.

And that is the last we have to say on this story. Is the end of our story. Nailed it. That recalls the, uh, the, what's the, if we, if we take your, if we conquer you will burn your cities to the ground. And then the reply message is, uh, if like, damn, that's fucking good. Yeah. Yeah.

And it, it, it leads me to believe that they're right. You know, that's sort of a response is like, come on, Ted, come on, cut it out. A good pithy response makes you win the argument regardless. They could have been lying out their teeth, but with a statement like that, you won. Yeah. So bottom line, fuck Ted Nugent and everything he stands for and the horse who rode in on fuck Ted Nugent guy is just the worst.

Somehow the end result of our, our years, like when we end this podcast, our years long discussion of Alex Jones will really be boiled down to fuck Ted Nugent. Yeah. That's the true goal. We stealthed this in here. I look forward to the next time he comes up because like, I don't know. I can't imagine what more awful things we can find about him. I've never read a bottomless well.

I've never read anything good about him. Um, do you, do you understand that? I've never read a single thing that's good about him because Alex can't write. Right. He said good things about it, but also I question the source. I've never heard anybody be like, you know, who's a great guy, Ted Nugent. That's a good question. I don't even, has he ever even had a well reviewed album?

Like, yeah, you think so? I think that a double live Gonzo is considered like one of the best live albums. Really? Yeah. Yeah. I think so. As I understand, that's probably gone with a Portis head live in NYC, but that's just me boot a con just the venue.

Can you imagine? Also I was thinking about that Fort Knox show with Nugent, Arjo Speedwagon and sticks. Can you imagine like Arjo Speedwagon being like, we're going to kill the president. He got kicked off that fucking show. Imagine the like fucking guy from sticks acting like that kind of an asshole, man. And I, I wish more bands just, just turned towards that. I don't, I think it'd be fun.

I'd like it if one is planning. I think, I think it'd be more fun if Lindsay Buckingham just went out on stage and was like, Hey, this next song is going to be another, another one of our hits, but also let's kill the president. All right, let's go guys. Donald Fagan just loses it in the middle of a pig screaming about assassination. Could be. So I think there's one thing that's really confusing me.

And I think it's partially because he has all of these same guests on all the time is that I don't know where a lot of our players are. You know, like a lot of the people that we know from Alex's world, where are they? Yeah. They're around somewhere. Steve Pachennick is glaring in his absence. Right. Like he's around.

He, Alex and him are both big Sandy Hook deniers for a long time and, and initially. So like, I, I expect to see him somewhere. I can't find him anywhere. All these other dudes too. Like Gerald Salenti is nowhere to be found. Peter Schiff isn't around. Um, I don't know who else. Paul Craig Roberts, none of these guys.

It's weird. In this next clip, we do hear about somebody, but we, he's not on for anything, but we do hear about somebody and where he's at as it relates to Sandy Hook. You'll see some of these headlines. How the new town massacre became a mind control event by John Rappaport. Great investigative journalist. Oh boy.

Oh, hang up that goddamn picture. Turns out Rappaport was, uh, into, uh, either using this to brainwash people. Mind control the public. Of course he's classic Rappaport. Oh, go fuck yourself, John Rappaport. I'm sure he'll show up pretty soon too. Like Alex is now reminded of him. And now I imagine we'll get some, some of that juicy Rappaport action.

So, uh, Stuart Rhodes is on because he has a new pledge of allegiance or a pledge of independence. Now done, cancel it, cancel this whole fucking show. I don't want to hear this goddamn new pledge of allegiance. I don't even like the regular pledge of allegiance. That shit is fucked up. It's not a pledge of allegiance. I kind of misspoke.

It's more of a pledge of independence. Okay. But it's all just the same Oathkeeper shit. It's still just like, we're not going to take guns from people. If you try and take our guns, that's a line in the sand. Right. I pledge this as a line that I won't cross all that stuff. And it's like, why, why are you just reiterating the same fucking shit you say

all the time? Yeah. It's no big deal. So trust me, it's not going to be too offensive. And I do believe that if we play this out and listen to it, you'll see what Alex is doing a little bit. He's using Stuart a little bit, uh, in addition to Stuart using him. Okay.

Very symbiotic thing. Okay. So anyway, Alex starts it off, uh, on a bad foot. Going back to Stuart, Stuart, it says my personal pledge of resistance against any attempt to disarm us by means of an assault weapons man. Give us your pledge here on air. And I hope that others speak out with their pledge because we are the majority of people that know how to tie their shoelaces, you know, uh, the welfare

heads and stuff don't count. We are the power of this country, but we better exercise it now. It is because we know what he's talking about. Yeah. You, we know his code. That's, uh, that's the welfare, well, they don't know how to tie their shoes. We're the majority. We're the ones who count white.

There is that, uh, subtext to it entirely. So in this next clip, this is what I think is actually the most important thing. This doesn't really speak to Alex using, uh, Stuart, but Stuart accidentally says something that I think is entirely accurate about what him and Alex are trying to do. Get innocent people killed. Well, oh, I mean, that's the, that's the. That's the end result of what they're trying to do, but they're talking

about stage one, not stage three. I got you. Well, yeah. And what's happening now is you're, you're finding out who the actual, you know, who the, who the mealy mouth, um, fake conservatives and fake constitutionalists really are. All these big outlets that are taking guns off the shelf, all these conservatives, so-called conservatives who are now willing to put guns on the table and talk

about a, a solemn span. These are people who never understood the right to bear arms, never understood the constitution, never understood liberty in the first place. And so this is going to be a dividing issue among the, the political right in this country. No shit. He also even goes so far as to say it's a career changing moment for politicians and for people.

Like what he's describing there is like, this is an opportunity for us to radicalize people and make sure that our ship is free of people who have resisted that radicalization. Right. That's a hundred percent, like what is behind what he's saying. And he's absolutely a hundred percent accurate. Cause I think that you've made this point in the past episodes that we've had about Sandy Hook is like, once you get past that point, no matter

how decently or reasonably you present yourself, you're past that point. And so people who stuck around with, uh, even if it is just sort of the conventional GOP line of resisting any gun legislation at all, any regulation, you're past that point. You are radical. Yeah. Uh, and that's what he's describing. Yep.

Kick the, kick the dummies out. So I think that it's interesting that you can see the awareness there. I think that that's interesting that they, they, like from like a couple days after Sandy Hook, um, there's even an awareness that what they're doing is getting up any moderation out of this thing, getting it all, like as extreme as we can make it because it has to be that sort of thing. Well, at the same time saying that their opponents are politicizing this event, they're openly, they're openly admitting that our main goal with

this is to radicalize people and radicalize politics. Exactly. And the interesting thing that I think is probably like, I think they might be aware of this, but not necessarily. I don't know, but they don't kick out everybody who, who, or, or it's not like, Hey, we get past this point. Everybody who's still on board and isn't like, uh, voting against, uh, our second amendment or whatever, get them all out because there's people

who are still the, uh, the cuck conservatives as they might be called. Like a Marco Rubio is still around. Right. And I think that like to say in people, Marco Rubio is still past the radicalization point, but people like him are still important as punching bags for people like Stuart Rhodes and Alex Jones. Right. They need those moderate radicals in order to push the Overton window.

So far that what we would consider a moderate radical, uh, like, or just a moderate GOP Republican, like Mark, Marco Rubio is actually now an incredibly radical politician, but the Overton window has just moved so far right that you're like, well, that must be moderate because he's not openly saying kill the president. Well, and all like, I think there's an awareness among people like Stuart and Alex that like, if everybody was exactly what they wanted, the world and like governing would be unmanageable.

Yeah. Like if everybody was goddamn Louis Gohmert and Steve King, like these Tea Party politicians that they pushed for, there actually would be a revolution. Well, if, if it was like, if that was all the Republicans that were in office, they would get nothing done. They have no idea how to do anything. It would be scandal after scandal, or they would all get voted out. And the ultimate end result of that would probably, you just described Trump.

Well, no, he got nothing. Well, they did pass the dumbest tax cut and everything else in history. But you still needed McConnell to do those things. Right. Right. Right. And McConnell isn't somebody that Alex likes. He thinks he's a, you know, GOP shill.

I'm sure he likes him much more now, right. But back then he's like, fuck that guy. So like he needs those people in order to keep the ball moving or whatever. Right. And then he needs the Louis Gohmerts of the world to be like, this is what we need. Yeah. We need more of this with the full recognition that no, what you need is a goddamn Mitch McConnell, who's exactly what you hate.

It's, it's insane. You need to radicalize, but you need to bring the people who know how to do the work along with you and keep them somehow cloistered from the, like the outright association with denying Sandy Hook being a Nazi, those sorts of things. Because if all of your people who know how to get anything done are like you, then it becomes too clear what your party is about. Yeah. It's an interesting system.

And I think, I don't know, it's just a lot of the thoughts that were coming up as I heard this very intentional drive towards radicalization. It's, it's a, it's a way for they, and it's so important for the moderates, like not moderates, for the fucking evil conniving pieces of shit, like Mitch McConnell and Marco Rubio to have these assholes around in the same way that it's important for our assholes to have those assholes around, because the moderate guys can paint themselves as moderate, moderate. Well, at the same time, being the most fucking radical douchebag conservatives

that you can be, because you can always point to Steve King and say, we're not that guy. See, we're compassionate conservatives. That's what Alex's entire career is based on is being that guy, being the Steve King of radio or whatever for like Rush and Hannity. It's being like, I'm not fucking Alex Jones over here. All at the same time, making people who otherwise would be like, hey, racism is bad, still vote for racist policies by saying team sports.

You know, well, we can't vote for Democrat period, no matter what happens. They're global. So I'm not racist personally, but I am going to vote for every possible candidate that I can find who will promote racist policies, even if they're not saying the quiet part loud, because they're not Stephen King, who is the one who's a Steve King, who is the one saying the quiet part loud. It's fucking disgusting how well they do their job and how shittily people. God, this is why we lose, Dan.

So in that clip, I thought that was very interesting. You know, you see that those sort of dynamics in play. And what appears to be at least on some level in awareness of that being what they're doing, but in this next clip, Alex takes this independence pledge or whatever that Stuart Rhodes is doing, which again, a hundred percent is just, we're not going to take your guns, which is the oath keepers initial pledge to begin with. And he's just saying also, in addition to that, if you vote to take away our guns, we will vote you out of office, which again, is sort of implied

by their entire existence. I don't know. Like, I guess that's better than your pledge saying we'll kill you. Right. It's a media blitz kind of thing. I think probably just trying to get some attention. But Alex piggybacks that and is using it to get himself attention. Uh, and you'll see that in this next clip.

Because I want to pledge with you. I want to say here on air, I think I'm going to make a video about this, that I pledge to never turn in my lawful illegal firearms that this is all a hoax. And I pledge to expose the illegitimate occupational government we have that openly isn't becoming a dictatorship. And I pledge my, my name, my treasure, my honor, my family to it. You know, I've pledged to call for secession to reconstitute the Republic. And that got a lot of national attention because I knew this was coming.

Seems like, uh, seems like you like national attention. It almost seems like Alex is trying to one up him. You know, he's kind of trying to one up Stuart. Like I still has to do that petty thing of his like, I, well, I've made pledges before and that got a lot of national attention. Yeah. I mean, your, your pledge is great. But I mean, I know I love your pledge and I put my life, my treasure, my family

on the line. What are you done, Stuart? I mean, he's not saying that, but he's kind of saying that. So when it comes to that radicalization question, though, the idea of like trying to use this to get rid of the milk toast people and what have you, um, that, you know, makes sense. Kind of makes sense. Why you would do that in their world, but in his next clip, uh, it becomes very

scary because Stuart Rhodes starts talking about these specific people. He wants to be on his radicalized team. This is the great, um, victory we have in the internet. The freedom of speech on the internet and on, on radio is what's turning the tide and the powers of being know that and it's turning the tide and the ranks, but I would just encourage people to really focus the Liberty movement. He's a focus on the guys with the guns. It is so incredibly important.

You might not get a chance to vote for Rand Paul in 2016. Stop looking only at politics, focus on the guys with the guns. I just urge you, I don't care if you do it through oath keepers or how you do it. Hand out DVDs, uh, turn them on to your radio show, whatever it takes. Wake them up. If you want to help us, that's what we're trying to do. Pass. Yeah.

There's a lot of guys with the guns. I kind of do want to focus on the guys with the guns though. And I'll tell you why. Cause they have a lot of guns, right? And that is, Hey, not for nothing. Responsible gun owners. Cool. There have been in the group.

There were some really interesting threads by responsible gun owners. At the same time, trying to tell you at the same time. If you have a lot of guns, that's something that should be paid attention to. Cause there are a lot of guns there anytime. There's a lot of guns anywhere. I think it's possible for a person to pay attention to that themselves. Like, I think if you recognize, I have a lot of guns that is kind of, you know, that's something that's a little bit outside of the norm.

And you keep track of that yourself, go to therapy or whatever, check in on it. And you find, you find they're like, that's all right. I just like guns. I'm safe and responsible about it. That is enough. Yeah. That's great. Yeah.

Keep doing that. I don't know. I think that when you say we want the people with the guns and your people like Stuart Rhodes and Alex Jones, you want them for bad reasons. I would say I'd like the people with guns, but not to do anything I want them to do. I want them to calm down. Like the heart, the battle for the hearts and minds of these hypothetical people with guns is like, they are like, get ready.

The end is coming. We will need to fight. Right. That's their angle. My angle is cool it. That may be why we're struggling. That may be why we're struggling to get the, because our message is like, wait for the information.

Right. Act on reality. Right. That is not as much fun as they're coming for you. Get down. Totally. It's not as fun to wait as it must be to get tons of retweets and stuff speculating about what Jesse Small, it did or didn't do.

It's not as fun to hang in the back and wait for information to come out and grieve along with America as it is. It's much more fun to say this shit was fake and make more money off it. Like that's, that's the, like none of the stuff that is the right thing to do in these situations feels good. Yeah. Or is the most fun. Yeah.

But as a person, you're morally obligated to do those things, especially when you have this huge platform as Alex, because to do otherwise is to do harm to people. Right. That's such a reminder and it never fails to be important to remember. Uh, the reason that this is so difficult is because we're just big dumb apes. Right. So in this next clip, uh, Stuart Rhodes and Alex have been talking about the

ways that we can get these people with guns, uh, to our side. And one of the ways that Stuart's talking about is like, just find some land outside like a barracks and put up a billboard. They can't stop you. Like, and then everybody, all the soldiers that are there will see the like info wars, billboard or whatever. And then they're in. Wow.

That's the most terrifying evil strategy I can think of. Right. And then Alex doubles down on it. Exactly folks, a few thousand bucks, huge billboard outside the base, savage the enemy, engage them. They are attacking us with dead children right now, saying we did it. Okay. You got to get back with the truth and hammer them hard or they're going to

win. They are to use military terminology because that's what this is. We are being overrun right now. Okay. We have been winning the hearts and minds with the enemy. The empire has just struck back. That is terrible. Alex is being attacked by dead kids or with dead kids.

That's garbage. That is hot garbage. It. Hmm. They, they just, I, and I get it because they've kept winning for such a long time by being evil and stupid. Yeah. But they really don't understand what a double edged sword is, do they?

Because if your, if your angle is what we need to do is radicalize the military with right wing pro gun propaganda in order to make sure that if something does go down, we have the military on our side who will then presumably go to the liberal cucks homes and take their, whatever. Well, 2019 he's talking about, like, you know, as that caller who's like, I'm in globalist houses and he's telling them, like, don't, don't kill the police, go and find the globalists. So yeah, presumably what he's talking about is like, we get them on our side

and they know to go kill Soros or whatever. And it's like, you realize when you make that a norm. Then that is okay to be used against you. Like when McConnell is like, let's get rid of the filibuster for all that stuff. Okay. You realize though that later on that can be done to you. You're fucking up by doing this because by and large, as, as history has progressed, progression has happened.

So no matter how much you want to try and break the system to fuck up that progression, all that that's really doing is ensuring your own fucking downfall later on as the, as the pendulum swings. So like, like, we, like you talked about the last time we talked about the pendulum, uh, if you really slam it as hard as you can, maybe it doesn't swing back. But that's not how this fucking works, man. Like this is, this is a bad idea, a dictatorship, right? The version of the pendulum getting stuck in the other wall,

but that's what they're ostensibly fighting against. And it's so fucking obvious, it's not, it's so obvious that they're not fighting against that totally, totally. It's obvious if you start looking at, and especially it's probably the gift of having time, you know, being in 2019 and looking back at this stuff and recognizing how quickly Alex flipped on so many of his long held positions. Once he knew he was safe from whatever tyranny may be encroaching. Right.

That sort of thing. You start to look back on this stuff and you see how flimsy and superficial it is, you see how it's not based on anything. It's mostly distraction tricks. It's mostly slight a hand nonsense. It was like, look at this headline, look at this headline. They want to kill you by my products, right? Even back here, he's not selling products necessarily, but he's still selling

subscriptions to like prison, planet TV and stuff. Right. So yeah, I mean, there is that, but like behind all of it, the flimsiness of the narratives, the, the way that time has shown that his anger towards tyranny and authoritarianism doesn't mean anything. It makes you start to realize that all of this stuff is just like, we have to make sure they don't do it. Exactly.

We have to make sure they don't do it. And if in the process we end up doing it, well, that'll be what happens. And that'll be greater freedom. Yeah. Once we, once we crossed that line, either we go forward into fascism or we pull back, and since we're lunatics, we will never, ever, ever pull back. So in this next clip, Alex gives a rousing speech about how ideals, they're not as mortal as the flesh.

Sure. Um, it gets pretty into it. He gets pretty into it. And of course, the only ideal that he's talking about is I get to keep my guns. Everybody gets gone. Right. But it, the way this, this plays out and what he gets to at the end is such a damning indictment of who he is as a person and stop being cowards.

Oh, they may put me on a list. They may come get me. Folks, if you give into that fear, it's over. I'm all in. I'm with Stuart Rhodes. I will never submit to the new world order. I will never go along with them. I stand against them no matter what happens and they can kill us individually.

They can politically destroy us. They can assassinate our character, but it's still a fraud. God knows who you really are and they can kill your body, but they can't kill your soul and they can't kill your ideas. Like V says, after they just spread him with bullets and he's got the bad guy, the dictator, he's got him right there and he says flesh and blood can die, but ideas, ideas are bulletproof. And that's when you really start living is when you step across from the

fear and step into an idea. Here's my problem. If Alex Jones had read the things that he professes to have read, he would have such a better reference for that kind of an idea than V for Vendetta. No, come on. The for Vendetta, that's all you needed to know. There are a hundred references you could make very easily about the idea of ideas being immortal and the flesh being weak and that sort of thing.

Your ideas live on past. Oh yeah. Like any of them are greater than V for Vendetta. Well, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not mad about the idea of written by douchebag, Alan Moore, who Alex thinks is the same as Alex. I'm not saying that it's bad to cite V for Vendetta or anything like that. You can make whatever movie reference you want, but I just start to realize that like Alex has no literary references.

He claims he's read all these books and he has such a, like a dearth of knowledge about these sorts of things. And every single time he brings up a philosophical concept or some sort of an idea as opposed to citing a book, citing a philosopher, anything like that. He's like, it's like V said, I don't, I don't understand. I'm good books are usually harder to read, but he says he's read them is my point. Right. But they're also harder to say then.

Like, I mean, not necessarily, but, but like the, the, the, the point being, if you're good at distilling information down to like an accessible chunk, which I think Alex is to a certain extent, he makes complicated subjects very easy to understand. He does it poorly. Yeah, but he's not going to quote brothers, Karamazov or anything like that because he can't, he could, he could lie about it. His listeners haven't read it either.

That's true. That's a good point. Any of these things, it's just like one of the brothers, Karamazov said, I wonder, watch out for bears. I wonder about it. If it is just a thing where it's like, he knows that his audience's borderline illiterate as well. That's fair.

And so you appeal to them on the ground that they probably have seen V for Vendetta. Yeah, that's a good point. That's actually a good idea. Man, if it's that, then I understand. But at the same time, I've almost, I would say I pretty much have never heard him like accurately cite a book. It always goes to movies.

Like it's always some sort of a pop culture reference. Has he referenced, he's, has he referenced June? You have. Yeah, he has. That's the benchmark for a high literature. He definitely has. Yeah. Um, so I doubt he's got any James Joyce quotes in his back pocket.

I'll say that right now. He does know the name though. I've heard him mention Joyce before, but Alex takes some calls and he's still got Stuart Rhodes on the phone, but the, the two of them take some calls and he gets this call from a guy who's frustrated by the idea of like, I call the, the, like senators office and I leave them a message about, you know, like this is bullshit. We need you to be weirder or whatever, whatever, whatever the message one of

Alex's listeners would give a Congress person. Of course. And so he's frustrated by that. Till the week. Yeah. And then Alex has a interesting suggestion about what he should do, uh, with that frustration. And the AIDS are like, well, all kinds of comments on, so I mean, it's just amazing.

Well, calling them isn't bad. It's better to write them a letter. It's also better to go when they go to these public speaking events, like at the grocery store of the church to go and call them out. Remember at the original Ron Paul tea parties for the Republicans took them over and gilded them. People went and shouted Republicans and Democrats down. That's what we need.

That's what we need. Shout people. Flash forward to Trump being in office and Alex complaining. How dare you not even smile and clap. How dare you complain about disrespect the system. Very idea of people doing exactly what he says they need to do. How dare you not give blind fealty to somebody lying to your face. But at the same time, a lot of the times that he was complaining about stuff in

the Trump era was when I don't know. Some people went and bullhorned, uh, uh, Tucker Carlson's house. Or they went and, uh, yelled at Sarah Huckabee Sanders while she was eating. Alex is saying that we need to bullhorn people at speeches or something like that. So you could be reasonably like, okay, well, maybe it's a thing about decorum and people's private space. Unfortunately, Alex says this. Now we need to go and bullhorn congressman's houses.

We need to bullhorn their events. We need to put private investigators on them because they're all committing crimes. Any gun grabber out there is a mafia trash. We need to go put private investigators on people. That's targeted harassment. Legal. I'm not sure it is. Can you, can you hire a private investigator to follow your congressman around?

I don't know what the line is there. I really should have looked into it in terms of legality. Could we do that? I don't think I'd be comfortable with it. I feel like we can't, but at the same time, if we could, I really think it wouldn't be a bad idea to hire a private investigator on Mitch McConnell. Oh, I thought you meant on Alex. Legally, I'm not sure what the stance is on this.

So I'm reticent to comment. That's a good question, but I will say from my heart, you know, I would say don't do it because it invades people's private space. Inevitably, you're going to end up finding stuff that has nothing to do with whatever you're curious in. Right. That's a, that's a violation of people that is unnecessary. Like whatever problems you have about Mitch McConnell, for instance, should

stay in the political realm or whatever. Like, what if you put a PI on him and you find out he's cheating on his wife? The fuck, what do you do with that information? Tell people. Why? Why not? Fuck that guy. That's a vindictive of you.

That's wrong. Yeah, I'm fine with that. Okay. If you want to live in that space, cool. I don't want to live in that space. I'm not going to do it. I understand. I don't, but you're, you would hypothetically do it.

I hypothetically would. I would not want to know those sorts of things. The main reason I wouldn't do it. It's cause I couldn't afford it. If you could find a PI to just look into like pro bono financial connections or something like that, then that's more like a, like a researcher. Right. Right.

Right. I find like that would be okay. Or like what an attorney general should be doing. Right. Yeah. That sort of thing I think is okay. But the idea of like following someone around or something like that, it's just, that to me is like, that's, that's pretty gross.

Yeah. Uh, I don't know. On the other hand, like, uh, with all you're doing is farming out stocking to a professional, basically. Well, yeah, but you leave it up to the professionals because they're going to do a better job of it. Right. They're good at stocking.

Yeah. Exactly. I'm not comfortable with it. Okay. So in this next clip, Alex is reading an article about gun grabbers. It's not important. It has nothing to do with anything real, but Alex says, has a Ferdian slip in this, in this clip, a Ferdian clip that he, nice.

He says something that he's so fucking accurate and he doesn't even realize it. This blew my mind. The gun rights gang insists that it's not about guns. It's about not letting crazy people have guns. I agree. And I'd like to propose that crazy should be defined to include anyone who fetishizes guns.

No, we fetishize tick, tyrants want to take this over. We're obsessed with knowing the history of it. He fetishizes tyrants. Yeah. No shit you do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

You're not wrong. I don't think he knows what the word means, but at the same time, he's expressing the truth. Yeah. What, what do you fetishize tyrants? What does he think he's saying? He thinks that means like we're enthusiastic against the tyrants. That's what he really, that's what I think he's trying to express.

But no, in reality, you fetishize tyrants. Yeah. He's the one who said that Stalin was a complete badass. Total stud. Yeah. Total stud. Wow. So in this episode, we've seen a lot of like just sort of standard Alex Jones.

There's a lot of it that I, we're not listening to necessarily that I was listening to him like this could have been 2009. Like it's pretty like there's a lot of standard operating Alex Jones, which is interesting because the other days haven't really been as like regular. And so now to see him kind of be in a place where he's comfortable enough now because Rob do's made that special report. Right. We can hang our hat on that.

Sandy Hook done check mark. Yeah. He kind of wants to slip out of it. And he does just his gun defense narratives and that seems to be much more comfortable territory for him. Um, at the same time, that solidifying of the government did this, they did it. This is the government doing it in order to then launch the op to take our guns and stuff that was bad.

In the beginning of the episode, Alex, or not the beginning is towards the middle. Alex gets a call from a guy who's like, did you read the article and veterans today about how Sandy Hook was retribution on behalf of Israel for something or other and Alex shoots him down. Alex, like this is a guy suggesting a conspiracy that Israel did Sandy Hook. And Alex is like, look, I don't know who's they, they have a general quoted in the article. Did they name them?

And the guy's like, no, it's like, look, this is no good. Like, I, and I was like, holy shit, Alex, what are you doing? What are you doing? What are you doing? So Alex talks for another minute or so. And then he's like, look, veterans today has a great name and it's great. It's a great URL. You know, like he's jealous of the URL.

No, that's fair. And veterans today has a great name. And then he gets into talking about how they had like said he was an asshole in the past. There it is. Exactly. Patty. And so I was like, I was like, this doesn't really work for it.

Like, in other contexts, he probably would have been like, I'm excited to hear this, tell me about it. No, I don't, it's not like I want to blame Israel or he, like me speaking as him, like, it's not like he wants to blame Israel, but it would have been interesting, but now you bring in the veterans today. If you hadn't said veterans today, he would have been like, fuck, yeah. That takes him into the like, fuck them part of his brain. Right.

There has not been a ton of what you would call conspiracy shit about this. That's a good point. Other than his broader, the government did it. There's not a ton of specifics. There's that second shooter stuff, right? But that's kind of like, yeah, you know, that's misreporting that happened early on. You don't want to engage with how reporting works.

Yeah. We're not to understand where it comes from board. We're not at like, uh, towers don't fall like that unless there's charged explosives at the right exact point. And we can prove that this is how they fell and all of that shit. We're not there yet. We're just at like, this is a, this is bullshit. Yeah.

Government did it. Yeah. And then so here at the end of this episode, uh, we find the clip where everything changes. It is bizarre, ladies and gentlemen, we're finding more and more videos of parents of the children laughing and giggling and looking excited. And then saying off camera, do I read off the card and then walking up and breaking down on camera on TV.

We need to, and we need to have private investigators look into Sandy Hook. Okay. Um, Hitler blew up his own Capitol building to bring in martial law. You're up Australia, New Zealand, banned most guns after staging mass shootings. The evidence later came out. What about Putin getting elected? This thing looks really, really bad. So here's where this becomes untenable.

And this is where this days later is taking the turn that I even predicted would come much later. The only reason you would bring up something like that is if you're going to suggest that these people aren't real exactly. Why, why, this is the day after he took that call from the guy who knew Victoria Soto, the teacher who died and Alex had put up a picture of her. He's reporting on air, talking about this video of the father, I believe his name is Robbie Parker, who, uh, it was laughing nervously before, uh,

giving a press speech. And we've talked about this, uh, in times past, like the idea of how people grieve, uh, is, and how you respond to nervous situations is it's. Ridiculous to make a claim like he was laughing before that interview. That means he's faking this. Most people don't have to give press conferences ever. Most people aren't good at public speaking. You and I both have years of experience doing stand up.

And so our response would be very different than Johnny come lately off the street or whatever. If we were pulled in front of a camera, right, we wouldn't have as much as your talks out both sides of his face. Right. Yeah. Yeah. We would have much less discomfort with speaking in front of cameras.

Now granted, if we were talking about a situation where we had lost loved ones or something like that, maybe we would be right in the same boat. How the fuck could you even put yourself in that space to imagine what a supposedly normal reaction would be? Exactly. I was bringing our, uh, stage preparation, uh, and, and internal intrinsic training in it to bring another variable to it. Yeah.

Like even taking that aside, who knows how we would respond to that. Exactly. And now you just consider this as a person who didn't expect any of this to be in his life mere days prior. Um, the only reason you would ever cover this story or bring it up with any suspicion is if you're intending to introduce the idea that his kid didn't die and he is an actor, that is the only fucking reason to do this. There is no reason to cast suspicion on the family.

If you believe that people died there and I need, I need to make this very strongly this point, this doesn't match with the narrative that he's been building for the previous days. Right. This doesn't match with anything that Larry Pratt, uh, uh, uh, roads, Stuart Rhodes, uh, that, uh, weirdo loves guns. His friend, Matt Williams, uh, the senator or the congressman who was on the other day, any of his guests, none of these people have suggested in

any way that this stuff is fake. Alex is doing this on his own. He's bringing up this story of the idea that this father is laughing and reading off cue cards on his own. And it is what five days later, yeah, five days later. He is at least speculating that they're fake, that they're actors. And to your earlier point, what is saying we need to hire private investigators for these people, what are you going to find other than

professional harassment? Well, so for, for, what if you're a freelance public private investigator, right? Or if you're a listener who can afford a fucking private investigator, well now you're a private investigator. It's time for you to do some sleuthing and harassing them. All right. And you're doing it for the greater good.

Cause what do you know what you're going to find, right? You go in, you go in and you're trailing this guy with your binoculars, you know, you peek binning in his window, you see that his kid's still alive. Bada bing, bada boom, closed case. Like why would you want to investigate this if your suspicion wasn't that they were lying and were fake? Because the only end result, if you think it's real or presenting the public facing appearance that you believe it's real, as we get into that

mess a whole bunch, we know that he knows it's real, but we keep saying, like he thinks it's fake. Yeah. That's just what his narrative is. Right. When we say we think he thinks it's fake. It's what he's telling his audience. Yeah.

He knows it's real and he has from day fucking one. But if you think, or if you want to present the idea, then you have to think that there's a, it's just so fucking baffling to me. Yeah. I don't understand why anybody would do this. Even him, he's ruined his defensible position by covering this. Um, we sow the seeds of our own downfall from the very beginning, I guess. Perhaps.

I don't know. I don't know how poetic it is to, like from the jump, if your goal is to cast aspersions on literally everything sooner or later, you're going to get yourself into fucking trouble. If I were Alex Jones in this position and someone brought me this, like let's say it's Rob do, because he's already in the hopper. Like if it were a Rob, let's say Rob brings me this video that's everyone suspicious about on the internet of like, Oh, look at him.

He's laughing before the interview. If you bring that to me and I'm Alex Jones and I've already worked for a couple days to build the, it's all about taking our guns. The globalists came in and they had commando teams and killed the kids or whatever. And you are still like totally everyone died. That's the rock we're standing on or whatever. I would be like, huh, let's not talk about that. I'd be like, okay, I see, I see how that would be a natural reaction.

Someone might have to immense stress. Right. Let's, let's punt on this one. Cause we don't need it. Right. It just comes down over and over again to you don't need to do this. No, he doesn't. I'm so frustrated.

I've never felt this way about Alex, like listening to him, like just a stop, stop. You can do all you need to do without any of this. I screamed about this on the last episode and I feel it's so much more passionately now. This is all unnecessary. Right. But it's, it's, it is impossible for him not to probably that's the, that's the thing that is a fun push pull there is that even on some level, I'm sure he

knows that he doesn't need to do this. He's already got his gun defense narrative going on, but somebody Icarus, somebody eggs him on, you know, somebody's like, Hey, what about this? And he's like, I'll look into it or like, Hey, what about this? And he's like, Ah, that sounds right. And Hey, what about look? Well, guess what? I'll go even fucking further than you.

I've had three people call me telling me to look into this. Well, guess who's the master of looking into shit? Me. It's all fake. I love it. Well, he didn't say anything about him being an actor in that last clip. He did insinuate it. Right.

So now here's how he ends the show. We're going to play a clip from CNN press conference with Robbie Parker and people that have seen this video for radio. It doesn't really translate. We're putting it up at info wars.com right now. Aaron Dyches is posting it. I had this hours ago. I've just been so busy.

I haven't got to it yet. We're going to play it on prison planet TV and I've seen this before and he's laughing. It looks really, you know, excited. And then says, do I read off the card? And then he walks up like he's an actor and then breaks down on camera. I mean, it's like, oh, yeah, oh, I read this card. Okay.

I mean, it's like, whoa, whoa. And maybe out of the stress, that's just what happened. And then maybe in front of the camp, maybe it's, I mean, folks, we got to get probably investigators at the Sandy Hook right now because I'm telling you this, this stinks to highest heaven. I hate that so much because it shows such an awareness of what the reality is within the creating suspicion and demonizing a grieving father. Maybe that's just how people react to stress.

You don't goddamn well. That's the answer. Yep. He knows exactly what the truth is and he said the word. He came up like an actor and then did his stupid fucking character work about like, like as if to mock whatever reaction he was having. And then at the same breath comes in with a, I don't know, maybe that's how people responded to highest stress situations, but we need private investigators

down there. This is fucking garbage. I didn't expect, I'm pissed a little bit. I didn't expect to come this fast. That's crazy to me. Yeah, I really thought we had the fucking, yeah, our investigation might be over. It's not over. It's not over yet.

Four episodes. We thought it would be at least a while before he decided that we thought there would be some emotional distance between when he goes from this is real and it's affecting me. Maybe the government did it, but it is still children who died to it's all fake. Even the people who died, the parents, they're all actors, all of this shit. But he's not saying that yet. He's just deeply insinuating.

Yeah. It was, it happened on Friday. That it cannot be real Wednesday. That can't be real. It's nuts. This is crazy to me. How, how did it happen that fast? Yeah, but it makes perfect sense.

No, totally. It makes perfect sense. How else would we have a gun culture so entrenched in this fucking country that after a mass, after a tragedy that can't even, that I still can't even really fucking comprehend, how, how is it possible that no action was taken after that? Especially considering we'd know that in the UK, one mass shooting happened. No, no, no, no, one school. I, I, I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. One school shooting happened and they went fucking, Hey, this got to stop. The only way it makes sense for our culture to have no legislative reaction to this is if people like Alex can turn that corner in such a short period of time to unify their message of nothing can be fucking done ever. Nothing can be done about this because if it took him three weeks, maybe people would have finally gotten the goddamn picture in three weeks. But if it takes you a day or two to say that it's all fake, that's what I was talking

about at the beginning of this episode. Yeah, you're absolutely right. That the propagandists weapon and their, their advantage over decent people is weaponizing the unknown. Like the idea of we don't know all the facts. I mean, you can get all, if you're a decent person, you can watch that video of this father and not come away with it, with any confusion or suspicion or anything like that. But a lot of these other things, the, the, the anomalies that he's already starting

to bring up of his own accord, things like the second shooter ideas and stuff like that. He weaponizes the idea that we don't all have the reporting on it. We don't have the information. And it just, it bums me out to, to such an extent that I don't, I can't prove this, but I don't understand how this isn't a financial motive for him. Like I don't, I don't understand someone doing this who isn't getting paid a lot. Like I don't, I know that I can't back that up and I don't like to speculate about stuff, but like there's only two ways that this makes sense.

One is that his show makes him so much fucking money. What, and he, he's not even selling the supplements at this point. He's just selling, uh, like his magazine that, I mean, I have copies of it. Thanks to Keegan got us some of those copies and they're terrible. Uh, I don't know who would be buying those. I can't imagine them being super expensive either. And then subscriptions to his website. I could see some revenue flow from that, but the, like the amount of money that it

would require to make some of a behave like this so quick, it just, it, it screams to me that someone's got to be in his ear. Even back then someone has to be motivating this. See, I, I'm actually going to go the complete opposite direction. There is no way that a reasonable human being could get enough money to make this change that quick. I, I recognize, and I, I totally understand your bafflement at this behavior. At the same time, I'm baffled that people kill eight people and eat them.

You know, like I'm baffled that the Zodiac killer was a thing, but this is not the, the reasonable human, uh, financial interest interest. This is a fucking serial killer. Of course you can't understand so high functioning in other avenues and other areas or like all the CEOs, they're all fucking psychopaths, not all of them. That's painting with a massive broad, I don't, I don't disagree. There's, you know, there's a high incidence of that in those, those sorts of fields, but to me, this, I just, I just don't understand it.

Even if you're a sociopath, because you don't like, like what I keep saying, you don't need it. It's not necessary for like, if he's a psychopath and what he cares about is defending his guns and stuff like that. The idea that the families are actors and that sort of shit doesn't help. It doesn't do anything more for him than the government came in and killed these kids. In fact, the government came in and killed these kids is probably better for him than the, these people are actors.

Right. But for the serial killers, another aspect of that is always wanting to be the smartest person, wanting to outsmart people, wanting to do it in public. There's a reason like the Zodiac killer didn't need to send fucking letters. You know, like that didn't help his cause. Yeah. You know, the Unabomber didn't need to send those letters. That's what got him caught.

He could have just bombed people. Nobody had any idea about that guy. Right. The only difference is that this didn't end Alex's life or career or anything like that. It didn't bring any actual consequences. So it's not quite like the, the things that got serial killers caught the golden state killer didn't, you know, like that wasn't until recently.

Yeah. Fine. I don't know. I'm just saying this dude is a fucking serial killer. I don't disagree with that assessment in terms of like his mental state and how far gone he is, but I still, I still think there's. There's got to be some undisclosed something. I don't know what it is.

It could be financial. I think it has to be like from where I'm standing, like what I know about following Alex and how he, he operates. It really feels like there has to be some deep financial motivation in turning this weird, right, but then at the same time, he also is beholden to a lot of really bad sources. So there are people like the Steve Pachennik's and shit like that of the world who are in his ear and there could be some like really nefarious influence

that hasn't reared their head yet. We don't know who, uh, who or what is going on that is motivating this. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. It's just weird because it's unacceptable because to me, that smacks of a certain kind of hope, which is a weird way of putting it, but you want an explanation. Yeah.

Yeah. And in the way that, the way that I see, uh, your reaction, it's like, it has to be something more than this guy is just a serial killer because at the very least I could understand this guy if it was money, if you, because you and I would never fucking do something like this, no matter what the price tag. No, but we can understand somebody who would, we recognize that those people exist for a price. They'll do that.

But the, the only problem that I have with that is all the times that we've seen Alex show restraint, you know, and those sorts of things. Yeah, that's true. And even in that last clip, him giving the awareness of like, maybe that's just how people respond. Yeah. Like that, that is not what you'd expect out of a serial killer mentality. Right.

It would be going full, uh, full bore or, uh, maybe he's just a bad serial. Possibly. I don't know. I don't know. He's just bad at the one thing he's good at. And I think that this conversation here that we're having is the reason why this must continue this investigation. Like it's not like, I'm not nearly done trying to find context clues from this

stuff, just because five days after fucking Sandy Hook, he's already taking dumb ass pieces of the conspiracy, uh, stuff that's being thrown around and using it on his show to insinuate that the victims weren't really victims. So how long did that even take to penetrate? But was that like an immediate click online? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, well, I mean, I think that interview probably was the night before, if

I recall correctly. And yeah, I mean, like places like Reddit and conspiracy boards were, you know, they were, they were hopping. It was a different time for conspiracy than it is nowadays. Like I think the, like, we've talked about this a bit. I think Alex has been playing catch up with the conspiracy world, um, in present day, with him creating fake Zach, uh, his, uh, his alternative to QAnon. Yeah.

Um, and, and all that stuff. Whereas back then Alex was, was kind of like a big, much bigger deal. He was on the Vanguard. Yeah. And I don't feel like him covering this is like him feeling pressure from the conspiracy world to cover it. If only because he had other callers who were speculating about other conspiracy stuff, even while they're down, you know, so it.

I don't know. I agree with you. I think your assessment of me wanting an explanation that probably is impossible to ever figure out. I think that's fair. I'm still not going to, not, I'm not going to stop looking. I didn't ask you to stop looking. I understand.

All right. I'm just, I'm putting a little button. I know. I love you. I'm not, I love to, I'm not going to stop looking for context clues that are possible because mine ears, uh, here, uh, uh, chichings. Yeah. I don't know.

We'll see. We'll figure it out. But until we figure it out and bummed out as hell, man, it shouldn't have taken this little time. It really usually every other one of our investigations has been like, wow, we're six months into this. And this is a big investigation too, in terms of like life changing events for him, and it took a 20 seconds for him to speculate that it was fake or

whatever, and then find his bearings and still say that it's real. And, uh, these people were killed. And I believe the official story of it. And it's so sad to these, all of these folks. And then now five days after he's already comfortable speculating, uh, that people were actors. He used the word actor even in that, in that last clip. I can't, I can't, it's like if I were to put myself in that kind of

headspace of, and I'll, I'll never, uh, but, but like the idea of even for, even for us, okay, for some reason, because of this show, somebody kills somebody in my family, somebody kills them. And they do like an interview with me. I, my reaction would almost certainly be like a weird laugh cry. Just like, I can't believe this is happening. This is a silly storybook joke. I'm crying.

I don't fucking understand anything that's going on right now. So if you wanted to call that a con, if you wanted to use that video as like a proof that nobody in my family died, you would almost certainly have all kinds of shit. Like there's no way that I could have any control over my reaction. Sure. That's bananas. Yeah.

That's bananas. And I imagine there's a hundred other, uh, press conferences of less publicized events that you could find where people are, you know, awkwardly or uncomfortably goofing off and then get well, so many message whenever the person starts interviewing them and so many murder trials have those eyewitness accounts that are, uh, you know, later on found to be fucking stupid where they're like, well, the person wasn't acting affected by it. So they probably killed him and you're like, you don't fucking know.

I mean, that even came up when we were covering the Anders Brevik episode where exactly the second shooter alleged alleged second shooter was a kid who was a victim on Utalia Island, who people thought didn't respond, uh, as a way that's exactly that sort of thing. Traumatized enough is the best way to, yeah. Yeah. So I mean, yeah, that mentality is, is there's a lot of it and it's bad. Anyway, I hate this.

Uh, I hate it too, but still better than talking about Alex in the present day. I have to stress that as much as this is a real big bummer and not pleasant. Uh, I would do this a hundred times before I talk about whatever he, whatever, hey, he wants to make out of, uh, hate crimes. I don't want to do that. Nope. And I don't think our audience really wants us to do that either. And if they do, sorry.

Yeah, but we have a website. We do have a website, Dan. It's a knowledge fight.com. Right. We're on Twitter. We are on Twitter. Uh, our handle is at knowledge underscore fight. Correct.

We're on Facebook. We even have a Facebook group called go home and tell your mother you're brilliant. That's right. Oh, iTunes. We are on iTunes. That's right. You could download, subscribe, leave a review, all those good things, et cetera. People still, people still leaving reviews.

It's very kind of you. Yes. Um, I would say that of this episode, uh, the imaginary second shooters at Sandy Hook did not kill anybody. Right. I can say that because they don't exist. Right. But there's one guy who technically probably has killed a guy.

That's true. And, uh, his name is Alex Jones. And Ian Chams, you're on the air. Thanks for holding. So Alex, I'm a first time caller. I'm a huge fan. I love your work. I love you.