Knowledge Fight - #276: January 1-2, 2013

Episode Date: March 15, 2019

Today, Dan and Jordan continue their investigation into Alex Jones' reportage in the aftermath of the tragedy of Sandy Hook. As the new year begins, Alex is still deep in his "gun paranoia" holding pattern, but thankfully he keeps things interesting by telling a weird story about his past brush with Hollywood and interviewing a major player in the rise of militias in the early 1990's.

Andy and Chanzos, you're on the air. Thanks for holding. Well, Alex, I'm a first-time caller. I'm a huge fan. I love your work. I love you. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to Knowledge Fight. I'm Dan. I'm Jordan. We're a couple dudes like to sit around, drink novelty beverages, and talk a little bit about Alex Jules. Oh, indeed we are, Dan. Jordan. Jordan. That was the last time you were illegally fired by a millionaire. I feel like every time I've been fired, it's been called for. Yeah. And no one, I don't know the monetary status of the people who have fired.

I don't know if I've worked for a millionaires. Yeah. See, I know I've worked for some people who have postured as millionaires for sure. Right. Right. At the car wash, I assume. No, no, that guy has a 20,000-year-old. Yeah, you're a media supervisor. No, no, no. I worked for a guy who owned a sandwich place called WG Grinders. I guess he didn't own the place, but he was the franchise owner. WG Grinders? WG Grinders. That sounds like a robber baron in the 1920s. Yeah, it does. It was one of my earlier job experiences.

I was very young and there was a place with, you know, they make the toasted sandwiches. They were one of the early places they had that, like that Quiznos style. Hey, hey, don't use brand names here. So yeah, WG Grinders. That guy, my boss there, postured like he was pretty rich. I don't know if he was though. I guess. I mean, where else have I been fired from? So many places. I'll tell you what, I've only ever been fired from one place. Bob Goodrich, the guy who ran Goodrich Theaters. Oh, Goodrich Theaters. He didn't fire me, but I'm sure he was a millionaire.

But it's got to be direct. I got it. I got it direct from the source. I know you want to fucking talk about it. Just go ahead. I don't want to talk about it. You're a son of a bitch. Are you serious? No, of course not. Absolutely not. I was fired on Tuesday, Dan. I know I've told you the story. I was fired on Tuesday. I feel like the people want to hear the story. I would assume so by Scott Cluth,

who is the boyfriend of one of the real housewives of New York. I did not. I didn't know as we started this that you were going to be naming names. Oh, hell yeah. I'm naming deeply uncomfortable. Oh, I don't have a, I don't have a fucking problem here. The opinions voiced by George do not necessarily represent those of the knowledge fight LLC, which is why you don't even need to worry about it. They're coming after me. They're not coming. You got, you got nothing in here. So you got, you got, you got fired.

I got fired in violation of a labor laws, which it turns out exists even if you're not in a union. And the main reason that I can't tell all the story under advice, under advice from people, but I can name names. And I can't tell you that the guy at the National Labor Relations Board was incredibly helpful. And after I had filled, after we had done all the affidavit and all of that stuff, and everything was signed away and all good to go, I was like, Hey,

I just want to make sure I'm a comedian. I'm a public figure. I talk about stuff. I'm sure this is fine to talk about, right? And he's like, yeah, I wouldn't talk too many specifics, but let me tell you something. It wouldn't be a bad idea to tell people about the National Labor Relations Board and what it is we do for workers all across this nation. Hashtag not sponsored. And it was, it was like, I heard swelling music come up behind him.

His speech was written by Aaron Sorkin, Dan. Yeah. So this is a plug down a hall. Exactly. This is a walk and talk. Yeah. This is a plug for the National Labor Relations Board. Congratulations. See if you're doing good work. He's doing good work. So, yeah, you know, it's perfect timing in the world that I would be in the middle of trying to move while you get fired and enter a very complicated process. We go to see you. Yeah. Can't be, can't be more exciting in our lives.

Times are good at knowledge, fight, HQ, keeping our spirit high. And one of the things that helps us keep our spirit high. That is a good point is there are a lot of people out there who are signing up to support our show and what we do and we appreciate it very much. So let's give a shout out to some people who have signed up. To support the show. First, I'd like to say thank you to Eric. You are now a policy wonk.

I'm a policy wong. Thank you. Thank you very much, Eric. Next heather. Thank you so much. You are now a policy wong. I'm a policy wong. Thank you, Heather. Thank you, Heather. Next, Amanda,You're now a policy wonk. I'm a policy wong.

Thank you, Amanda. Thanks, Amanda. Next, Rob with two bees. You're now a policy wong. I'm a policy wong. Thank you, Rob. You know what the second bees? That's fucking Rob Stark is what that is! Or the second bee could be for bad ass.

That's nice. Bad ass policy wonk, Rob. What's the first bee for? I'm not sure. OK. Probably bagels, like bagels in the morning. Finally, I'd like to say thank you to somebody who took their donation and bumped it up to a little higher level.

And we appreciate it very much. So Caleb, thank you so much. You are now a technocrat. I'm a policy wonk. Four stars. Go home to your mother and tell her you're brilliant. Someone, someone, Sotomayor sent me a bucket of poop.

Daddy shark. Bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop. Jar Jar Binks has a Caribbean black accent. He's a loser, little, little titty baby. I don't want to hate black people. I renounce Jesus Christ. Thank you so much, Caleb. Thank you very much, Caleb.

If you're out there listening or thinking, hey, I'd like to support the show and what these guys do or like this show, you can do that by going to our website, knowledgefight.com, clicking that button that says support the show. We would appreciate it. Please do. It would be helpful. So I'd like to start out this episode today by giving a little bit of an apology

that my language was a little sensational in the last episode. I know that I called myself out for like these thoughts I'm having about Alex maybe being dead or stupid. Yes. I called myself out for that, but it's still not the kind of conversation I like to even introduce to our show, especially because a little more time has gone on and the mystery is solved of where has Alex been?

Right. I found an Austin American. He's been living in our 2012 episodes. If only. A happier time for him, weirdly. Um, so I knew that Alex, uh, had recently, uh, learned or the world had been reported in February that he was going to have to sit for a deposition, uh, in his Sandy Hook defamation laws.

Right. But none of the stories that I had, uh, read up till that point had any kind of specifics of timeline. However, I found an article in the Austin American statesman from last week that was talking about last Thursday, he had a court appearance that, uh, at which the judge decided that he had to sit for a deposition this Thursday. So on the 14th of, uh, March, he had to sit for a deposition. I'm still not sure why that means he was gone for a week, but that has

to have something to do with it. Maybe he had to go to Connecticut to give the deposition. I'm not entirely sure. Possible. There, there's something going on with that lawsuit that explains his absence and his time away. Yeah, that's a good question. If, uh, if the lawsuit is brought in a specific state, you, do you have to go

to that state to give the deposition or you could, you just do it by a video in Texas, you know, it seems like you would have to go. I would think, I don't know. I don't know how it works, but I do know that he has cases pending in Texas and in Connecticut. So I don't know. There's so much, um, non-transparency in terms of like how this, this legal case is proceeding.

Right. And so a lot of the details are very murky and that's something that was missed, uh, by our, our speculation. Although I do think that we did bring up the possibility that the legal cases were getting real and that could explain his absence. Um, we just thought that it could be worse and, uh, you know, sometimes, uh, that's where the mind takes you. It is an entirely reasonable thing to speculate, uh, after listening to how

terrible a place that he was in, right? If you or I were in that for that long, it was, it was mysterious. No, if you were, I did that on this show, everybody in the group would be like, holy shit, one of them is dead. People start posting stuff in the group when I just don't post something until, uh, that's right. That's true. So I look, it, it's, uh, it is what it is.

I think, I think that probably explains pretty much all of this case is getting real and, uh, he's in a bad place. Most likely. Um, so he came back on Thursday, uh, uh, on the 14th. He was back in studio, uh, doing part of his show. So, uh, everything is somewhat back to normal, um, but we'd not have time before recording this episode, cause we're recording on Thursday to cover what he was it cause I watched like half an hour or so of it.

And it was, it was pretty boring. So not enough present day stuff to go into. So we're going back to no longer 2012, 2013, January 1st and 2nd, 2013. What's the secret of 2013? Oh man. The secret of 2013 is it making Kelly? Man, this episode is so fucked up. This episode is crazy for like one of the really frustrating things about

studying Alex Jones and taking him in his own linear path is that he never gives you what you think you're going to get. Right. You know, like you, we expected a good bit of Sandy Hook. We got Somali pirates one night and it happened. Yeah. Who knows out of nowhere. He's a roguish that way.

Yeah. He has a, he has a, he's a cad in, uh, in many ways. Yeah. And so, you know, we, we jumped into middle December, uh, 2012, expecting to have a fair amount of coverage of Sandy Hook and if we're to go on a while, and it just goes on for a couple of days where he gets pretty irresponsible, says it's a false flag, suggests that people are, uh, uh, actors sort of abandons that entirely and then just starts trying to agitate people towards

fear that the globalists are taking their guns, which will lead to a civil war. And he stays in that holding pattern until the end of 2012. Right. He finishes the year, um, laughing about how people thought that he thought it was the end of the world on December 21st and telling people, this is a red, uh, uh, crisis level emergency. The gun grabbing is going to happen. It's, uh, it's, it's nuts.

So you expect that to continue and it kind of does. Well, but you know, you, we've all had that like end of the year malaise where it's like, it's after the holidays, you're not really focusing on anything. You're just kind of coasting throughout your day job, new year rolls around, then you start to get that new feel for a month and then it all goes away. And it goes back to shit. But he's, you know, you get that feel, he's really feeling it on the first. Yeah.

And, uh, you can hear that in this first clip. It is the first day of 2013. I've been a lot of soul searching and I want to commit to you in this year that I'm going to put out the greatest output of information and of the highest quality that we have ever produced. I am going to make a new official film this year. I've not announced that yet. Uh, I will.

He doesn't, um, that's trash, man. But did he find his soul? I don't think so. Cause he said he was doing some soul searching. I did not then, I hope he didn't, uh, cause that would be a bad indication of what his soul looks like. I was going to say, because if his next statement is after I did some soul searching, I'm going to put out more information.

That does not suggest there's a lot of depth to that soul. No, no, it doesn't. It, well, I mean, he's like, this is going to be the most informative year. That's like, uh, that's the equivalent of like, just saying, I'm going to eat healthy this year. It's so vague as to be like, at the end of the year, like, I think I did. I don't know. So yeah, he's making these, uh, these classic vague pronouncements of, uh, of

the new year. He doesn't make another documentary, uh, cause the last one that he ever put out, and that's a stretch calling it a documentary was that strategic relocations with, uh, with, uh, scousin Joel scousin did not know about that. Um, it's just, uh, it, it basically a really long interview he did with Joel scousin where he's sitting in the studio with them and he's talking about where you can bug out to and shit like that. Oh, that's what I actually think we probably should cover it.

Is that good information? Uh, it's too long to just talk to Joel scousin. Right. But, uh, I assume that's 15 minutes. Oh God, it's, it's really long. It's so long. Um, it, it's longer than, uh, that Jacob wall documentary that I watched. Not good.

Why'd I watch that thing? I don't think it was a good idea. Man, it was 20 minutes long and it felt like two hours. You really got to go hard to be shittier at your job than project Veritas. I was sincerely thinking about covering it for this, like this episode, just because it was like, well, that'd be an easy thing to do. Yeah. That's slam dunk.

Just, it wasn't even last about five minutes. There wasn't enough content in it. Yeah. Like legitimately so much of the documentary is Jacob wall and Laura Loomer just sitting around or standing outside a door. It looks like that's some compelling footage right there. It's terrible. Does they still probably more visually stimulating than, uh, strategic

low relocations, Alex's final documentary. Ah, gotcha. What were his places to bug out to? I don't know. I don't remember. I, I did watch it, but I don't remember the woods. Sometimes we mock things, but I, I, I mean, what if we looked into it? And there was like, I don't know where to hide my guns, Dan.

I never read it. I guarantee there would be some useful information. See, there we go. Which I'm not, it doesn't pain me to admit that I don't care. I think there probably would be some stuff like, you know, cause even these like crazy survivalists do have some pieces of good information. Like you should know how to get water. You bet.

Everyone should know that. I agree. Yeah. So I don't know. It's just the store. It's a matter of scale is the, is the thing. So Alex here on January 1st says it's going to be the most informative year ever.

I'm going to do this thing. I'm going to crush it. The rest of the show is dog shit. Of course. Of course. It is a no man's land. I listened to it. I can find nothing worth discussing.

What is he even talking about? It's a lot of like a Diane Feinstein sucks. She looks like a demon kind of stuff. Fair. And then he keeps saying that she, she has said, Mr. and Mrs. America, get ready to turn in your guns. And in order to justify that, he plays a like years and years old clip of Diane Feinstein talking about in the past, if she was able

to get a bill through that would have taken everyone's guns, she would have done that, but she can't, she couldn't do it then. Oh, it has nothing to do with implying in any way. She still wants to do that or would still push that legislation, but Alex is playing so fast and loose with that. So he's using that to make the argument that Diane Feinstein is announcing that Mr. and Mrs. America, right. Get ready.

I'm coming to take your guns. I thought she was referencing that Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie movie. Oh, that's the one. Oh, come on, man. All right. That's where they fell in love. And that, uh, doctor from house was, uh, was in it as a secondary character, Angelina Jolie's friend in the movie.

Can't remember her name. Jennifer Morrison. All right. So January 1st is trash. There's nothing going on there. A little romp through your thought process. A to B to C. Yep.

Um, so we jump in on the second, January 2nd and Alex in a span of 10 seconds. Can't remember what year it is. We're not going to release that much information this year. Well, 2013 is already getting a little long in the tooth here. It is the second day of January, 2012. Still right in June on his chest. Still right in June on his checks. That's crazy.

That's the whole reason you kept that in. Well, also, because it's crazy how fast that happened. Yeah, that was quick, but I'm not judging him too harshly because he has that rhythm of it's already blank day and he's been, he says it every day. So it's, you know, it's going to take a little while to train that out of you. It's already the third day of March, 2000, 14. And he does not explain it all. Why he's saying that the year is already long in the tooth.

That was a really good question that I wanted answered. It's not answered. It's old. Yep. He's just tired. He's just like, I'm done with this year. Sick of it. I'm fucking done with it.

Nothing has happened yet and I'm sick of this year. I did one bad show and that's about it. We didn't even, we didn't even lose the great, great actor. What was, what was his name? Snape? What was his name? Professor Snape? Uh, Dumbledore.

No. Didn't Dumbledore play Snape? Neville. You're killing me. Why can't I remember his name? Rickman. Rickman, Alan Rickman. He was still around in 2012 or 2013 was still a good year.

Fine. As long as Rickman's around. It was a good time. You know what else was around? Well, lying about primary sources. That was still around in 2013, as Alex does in this next clip. Again, when I say something, I always double check it. Yeah.

Larry Summers in 1991 and Wikipedia has a link to the official memo that he put out. We'll put that on screen. Go ahead and scroll down. It's also in mainstream news where he said, let's ship our toxic waste to Brazil. That'll help get their population down as well. Whoa. That's explicit. And he goes over the reasons.

Well, you need to, you need to be gotten rid of. So again, this is their attitude. So the memo in question doesn't say that it would help get rid of people or anything like that, but there are a couple problems with Alex's story that he's telling here about this Larry Summers like what right off the bat. There's the problem that he's saying that Wikipedia has a link to it, which suggests that his research process was just to make sure there was something on Wikipedia about the memo.

Then forget that there's a second step that he needs to make. Well, it seems like that's good enough. It wasn't in his in-car to CD anymore. So he couldn't find it. The second problem is that if you read the Wikipedia entry about this memo, the second paragraph on the page, you just get down to the second paragraph. You find an explanation that one, Larry Summers didn't write the memo to the guy who did write it insists that in its proper context, the memo was meant to

be satirical and a means to prompt into a departmental debate. And three, the version of the memo that was leaked in 1992 was doctored specifically to remove context to make it seem like those proposals that were being made were serious. Right. Right. Right. Right.

So somebody edited a modest proposal to make it look like they really wanted to eat those fucking babies. More or less. Yeah. In a 1998 piece for the New Yorker, the author of the memo, Lant Prichard, who worked as an assistant to Summers, uh, uh, is interviewed. Quote Lant Lant Lant Lant. Oh man.

Why do we always have weird ass names on this? It's wall to wall. Quote, I strongly recommended that he say I had written it and then he had just signed it. Larry said, no, that wasn't his style. Whatever he signed, he would take responsibility for. Then he took the flack in 2001. Prichard spoke to the Harvard magazine and specifically laid out what it happened. Basically, the summation of his explanation is this.

Summers had requested that he read over the World Bank's global economic prospects report, which was largely about trade liberalization that year. He was then tasked with writing a memo to Summers, analyzing the arguments, which ended up being seven pages long. One of the points Prichard found dubious was the World Bank's argument that free trade would naturally and specifically like automatically lead to environmental benefits and developing countries. Quote, he questioned the data supporting that claim.

And in criticism wrote as an ironic aside, suggestions that if in conventional economic terms dumping pollutants on poor countries would be welfare enhancing for the world as a whole, the bank ought to endorse that policy. Right. The memo was then sent to Summers who scanned it and he signed off on it. There, uh, quote, thereafter, Prichard says, uh, someone with access to the memo doctored it combined to the heading and the sentences on pollution and toxic waste shorn of their context and the intended irony.

This one page form appearing to be a policy proposal. The memo, uh, the memo then found its way into the pages of the economist. The version of the memo that Alex has read is the doctored one page version, not the version that is the actual memo. All he knows is that there's a Wikipedia article about it and that's good enough for him. He has no idea. He's read the propaganda version of this, uh, from 1992, as opposed to the real

version, and he claims that he's a scholar. That sounds about right. Did they find out who doctored the memo or did that guy get away with it? I'm not entirely sure. The person who, uh, I knew it could have been, it could have been. Um, I don't, I'm not entirely sure if they ever were able to trace that down because I think it got leaked to a journalist and it might have been done, uh, uh, like, uh, anonymously.

Yeah. So I think, I think that's still an open question in terms of who did, who done it, who done it, but it's pretty easy to trace that it is bullshit. Um, the whole story. Right. So Alex, congratulations on starting 2013. Very informatively. Cause I didn't know about that.

And I got to learn a little bit. There we go. It's, it's year, uh, of information all over again. Most of the first was him talking about Diane Feinstein and then continuing these, they're coming for you guns, civil war is coming narratives. And a bit of the second is that too, but there's a trend that goes throughout where if Alex has been doing some soul searching, it's in a weird direction. And it's about his own celebrity.

Uh, because this next clip, Alex talks about how he's never tried to be in movies and then tells a story about auditioning to be in movies. There we go. All right. Which ends very weirdly. I've never even tried to be in movies, but have been offered a few times to, to be in some, you know, pretty big films by Tommy Pallotta and Richard a link letter point of order.

Tommy Pallotta is, uh, uh, link later as assistant director. So that's going to say, I do not know, I do not know who Tommy Pallotta is. That's not two different directors. That's the same project, uh, reaching out to Alex. And so I didn't have that experience there, but then, um, I got invited to go try out for some other movies called audition and some of the people. Associated with the films, didn't even know that I was already an established radio talk show host.

Surprise. That is something you hear. What a dick. What a fucking dick. Isn't that awesome? Do you know who I am? I went to audition for movies and people didn't know that I had a radio show. I'm already an established star of screen and stage.

So that's the sort of thing you'd expect from Alex. But what happens next, you would never expect. And already, you know, on, I think about 15 stations at the time. This had to be about 2000 and I was still, uh, pretty skinny. Then it looked a lot more attractive than I do now. And they point blank at one of these casting studios asked me if I wanted to be in porn and I was like, are you kidding? Alex got the, uh, the porno offer apparently back in 2000.

Are you kidding me? Uh, I mean, what's the answer there? Because if the answer is no, then yes, I was kidding you. If the answer is yes. Oh, we can talk. I understand that Alex was like Alex was a super attractive dude, like in his much younger years. I've seen like his broadcast from 9 11, let's say, you know, like from 2001, I

don't know if he took like a real downward slope in a year's time, but he, I don't think he looked great in 2000. Well, he looked like an average, uh, maybe late thirties dude, even though he wasn't late thirties, but that's what he looked like. He looked like someone's dad, basically. Well, after he lost out on the porn audition, he realized that it was just not going to work for him. And he just let himself go.

I turned down the skin flicks, my boat had sailed. See, I don't think he did. I think he got rejected for one of the skin flicks and that took him down the path that we're on right now. It's entirely possible. I think so. It would explain his weird, uh, anti sex worker, anti porn bias, because he was rejected from entrance into that world after the great star turns in

Tommy Pallada and Richard Linklater movies where he played crazy man with bullhorn in two movies. Well, he would have been great at the, uh, crazy man with bullhorn, uh, in the Pirates of the Caribbean porn remake. Sure. That would have been good. I don't want to judge him because like change his career. Cause quite frankly, like nothing I've ever done in my career, even matches

being crazy guy with bullhorn in a link later movie and growing up waking life was one of my favorite movies. So like the idea that Alex Jones is in waking life is pretty cool on some levels. Even if it is because Linklater liked him and gave him the part, it's still an achievement in some ways. I don't want to take that away from him, but that story is fucked up. That story is fucked up. Yeah.

What movie was he auditioning for? I want to know what would have been around 2000, what? Titanic? I was thinking. No, that was 96. Good morning. Vietnam is a little bit before, but did you think that he was supposed to play the Herald Herald and modern?

I was thinking the Bogosian role in talk radio. What other movies have to, did they make a freezer movie? Was he on network? That wasn't 2000. Yeah, I can't think of any other radio movies. So in this conversation about like he went there, he was trying to audition for movies and they said you should do porn or something like that. He starts talking about the disgustingness of Hollywood and how evil it is.

And it gets caught up in it and starts lamenting the women who have been chewed up and spit out by the system. Oh, is he, is he just going to be real chivalrous on this one, huh? Chivalrous combined with gross. The fame, the garbage, it means nothing, but they control people with it. But, but, but getting back to the analogy of America, like a young farm girl from Kansas, you don't have to get back to that green eyes. You're just perfect complexion, perfect proportions.

She goes to California because everybody told her she ought to be a movie star. She was so pretty. She was so smart and that's just what she should do. Five years later, she is the story of the Black Dahlia and a $20 hooker that nobody even wants to have sex with. And then she's dead at the morgue. That was fast. That's happened tens of thousands of times in the last 50 years in Los Angeles alone.

If she were going out, had an economy, had a business, would have had children, would have had a life, would have been a grandmother, would have fully fulfilled her destiny of, of being a wholesome human. She could have been Miss America Hollywood. I think Alex has been listening to too much poison and maybe has just been listening to Mama's Fallen Angel. I was going to say, live fast, Mama's Fallen Angel. What are we doing here?

Is he trying to, is he trying to write a Tom Waits song right now? What is it happening? I mean, sure, they're, you know, the show business is exploitative. You're, you're not wrong. You're on the vanguard of thought on that one. But this is weird. So he's trying to compare this girl who is clearly describing as there's, there's connotations to it, you know, perfect complexion, that sort of thing.

Right. And then you as America, America has a perfect complexion. And then you get down the road to like, if only she hadn't have done that, she would have, could have had an economy and found a man. Exactly. That sort of thing is the good version. This could have gone, whatever, for that. But he's trying to compare that to America and like America is at the

hands of this mafia that's doing that to America and Hollywood is a part of it, but there's more. And so then he starts rambling a whole bunch. Right. So if America had settled down, we could have gotten married to Canada and become Mr. and Mrs. America. Canada is not a man, sir. Oh, well, I mean, they bow to the queen.

Well, then what else do we got? Are we staying in the Americas? Cause we are, are we going to, cause we're not going to change our last name, long distance relationship, we're going to marry France. Russia's single. Russia is single, but I'm not changing my last name. Yeah. That's, that's problem.

Russia is very traditional. Yeah. Mr. Russia and Mrs. America. Russia would never allow that. No, not at all. He would definitely keep us from voting. So the metaphor does fall apart a little bit upon closer analysis, but Alex is trying to make that argument.

And so he starts talking about how there are like, I don't even really know how he gets into it, but he starts telling stories about how back when he was a kid, um, outside of Dallas, he'd go to the poor black areas of town in order to buy beer. Okay. I'm not really honestly sure how that relates to the larger theme of the conversation, but it has to do with like mafias making these areas of town bad and like the police are in with the mafia.

Yeah. I, I, I don't think he gets that far only is complaining about it in some way as to say like, there were terrible things going on there, but I could go buy beer there. Oh, okay. And so he spends more time talking about how he got beer there. Okay. So it's not like, uh, it's not like he is trying to say, see, I can go anywhere

because I am not a horrible racist. I can go into the poor black neighborhoods saying he exploited the terrible situation that these neighborhoods were in that they didn't card people for alcohol, that sort of thing. Uh, without realizing that he's talking about sort of exploiting the, uh, the very situation he's claiming to lament. Um, and it gets worse as this clip goes on where he talks about going to buy beer, uh, in these communities.

But a hundred times or more, I jump in the back of the pickup truck with my older buddies and we drive into South Dallas. You can hear guns going off in the background quite a few times and people try to mug you and everything else just, just to get beer so we can have a party and get the cheerleaders over. It's like New York in the eighties. And we drive back to the rich neighborhood we lived in by the golf course and everybody get drunk.

But the point is, is that that's just one one hundredth of the stuff that goes on out there and corruption. Is it cute? It's, it's, it's sick. I don't really, I, the problem that I have is he's not really, he's not really dealing with the, the, even the scenario that he's painting. And he just got done talking about how Hollywood, uh, chews up and exploits these, these impressionable young women.

And then he's talking about going to a impoverished community so he could buy beer to take it back to the rich place to lure cheerleaders to his house. Yeah. Um, so I don't understand exactly where the disconnect is there. Who does he think is the hero? Him. He thinks he's the hero. He thinks he's the hero in the story, but he's a fucking dick in this story.

Totally. He does not realize that. No, no, he's like, okay, I am going to go to this neighborhood that is only existing because redlining is a policy, right? And they've been specifically put down there to the point where who gives a shit, let's sell this kid liquor. I'm going to take that liquor back up to my rich fuck neighborhood and I'm going to then, uh, try and sexually assault women.

I mean, I, to some extent, what he's describing is like youthful shenanigans to, to a certain extent, although he's talking about it with, uh, like a very non-adult, uh, mindset, you know, like that's the, that's the story you'd hear out of someone who is like, maybe in college reminiscing about high school years as opposed to a guy who's been on the radio for 17 years is pushing 40 and has a family, right? 00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:53,680 Like you wouldn't talk like, I don't know.

If you were 21 and you were, it was your 21st birthday and you're talking and you're like, I remember when I was 15 and we used to do that. Then it's like, eh, get out of here. I mean, I had a huge beard when I was younger. And so I bought booze underage all the time, but it was so I could get drunk. Right. It was not too lure anyone. You didn't want to lure anyone anywhere.

Dan wasn't in the cards. Get drunk, play, uh, Prince of Persia. Not a good game to play when you're drunk. No, the little spins flat, flat formers are tough. Wouldn't you? Yeah, especially when you can manipulate time back and forth. Um, so yeah, I don't know. It's weird.

And in this next clip, Alex goes back to that metaphor that he was making about America being this, uh, young lady who's turned out by Hollywood and ends up as a, uh, a prostitute who no one wants to have sex with and dies of heroin overdoses. Of course. If you thought that first telling of that allegory was gross, strap it in. This one's way grosser and it's more or less the same story decides to tell it again, but go harder.

You've got to understand how this works in America was like a beautiful. Supermodel that looked like Wonder Woman. Those countries and ships. We call them women by the analogy fits. What? And now you should have to announce why your analogy fits in the back of a flat with bed, bed bugs feeding on us and cigarette burns and cuts all over us and almost all the hair is falling out and she's got double black eyes.

And the pimp is running a needle up into her vein to give her an overdose and get rid of her. That's how they get rid of them. He's running. He's run, but, but see, we haven't quite gotten to that point. There's always a point where the hooker goes, I'm going back to Kansas. What? You know, she's six months into it.

She's got diseases. She's had to have an abortion. She wants to get off the drugs. She wants to go home to mommy and daddy and he walks in and he knocks his teeth out. Is this your mom? He falls down, blood coming out, takes out a coat hanger and starts beating her and beating her, locks her up for a week in a closet. Don't, don't, don't cry.

Just like no walkie when the cops were there. Jeffrey Dahmer was authorized to do what he was doing. Nobody's coming to help you little kids and nobody's coming to help you lady. And they lock her up in there and half starved her death. And he comes back and says, I'll give you some food, but you'll never try to leave me again. And a year later, she's dead, dead on a dirty mattress. And that's what they're going to do to America.

Just like they've done to Nigeria and Brazil, they're going to take us and they're going to squeeze us out. They're going to strangle America cause they like it. This is, uh, he, uh, that was his grandma Jones. Wasn't it? That's her, that's her life killed with the polio vaccine. Oh, okay. That's right.

Um, no, that's just Alex having like that clip tells you way more about Alex than it does about anything else. Yeah. That is a gross dude. Just, he's getting into telling this story. You can hear like an excitement of the grossness and the dirtiness. And then he punches her in the teeth, knocks her teeth, and then he's locked her in the closet for a week.

It's, um, it's, that's troubling. That's a, that's a, that's a gross person. That's a dark fantasy. Yeah. I, I, I, there's nothing wrong with having that dark fantasy. A lot of gray writers have those dark fantasies. There is something wrong with the way he tells it. Yeah.

Every part of the way he tells it makes me feel bad. Well, and he's not using it for any like literary achievement or any goal. Other, like he's using it to scare his listeners. That's it. He's using it to reinforce like this idea of what his perceived enemies are doing to the United States. So, I mean, it's manipulation, pure and simple, but it's manipulation by using gross buttons.

Yeah. It's like really fucking gross. So as I was, Yeah, even the writers for drag net would be like, pull it back here. Come on, man. Um, yeah. So, I mean, this is a weird, this is a weird place that he's in on this episode. It's a very, it's a departure from, uh, the rest of these days where he's

not been real weird, just kind of, uh, trying to make you scared about gun grabs. Yeah. This is much more like, oh, this is a, this is a weird Alex day. This is strange. So he gets into talking about these, these shootings that are happening and he compares other like killers from the past, other serial killers. Of course.

Um, and then he comes, he's a big fan of Dahmer. He comes to the conclusion that there's one thing that combines all of them. Liberals. You notice all the mass shooters, Son of Sam Ramirez, the night stalker, the dog walker, the last two shooters, New York with the fireman lands. If you believe that story, Angela Lansbury, the devil worshipers, all of them devil worshipers, devil worshipers are our problem. Our problem is devil worshipers, devil worshipers, huh?

It's going full satanic panic on this man. It's very weird. He's grasping at straws in terms of like trying to figure out exactly what the narrative is about Sandy Hook, quite frankly. He's already said that he's certain it's a false flag and the government did it. All that stuff. But then in terms of this, like he's still unclear how to land on, how to like to explain Lanz's role in it, because there's documentation of him

existing before and there's plenty of like information that's available that he can't just make disappear. So he has to still contextualize it somehow. And I guess the way he's choosing to, at least as of the beginning of January here is like he's already laid the foundation of the psych meds and video games and stuff like that. Of course. And now he's pivoted to Hollywood.

Well, Satan. I think Hollywood is just that's not related. Oh, okay. That's just general stuff. Right. But then in terms of Lanz, we got now Satan. It is Satan is the problem. And that's not something he knows.

It's 2013, right? Like the satanic panic ended a while back. Oh yeah. And it was bullshit. And it was all bullshit. But that's something that I don't like to hear on news shows. What? That it was all Satan that it was Satan.

Yeah. Uh, I don't know. I don't even like to know Brett Bayer says that all the time. I don't even like to hear that on Dana Carvey SNL sketches church lady. I remember church. Okay. I was just letting you. Yeah.

So in this next one, Alex talks a little bit about Barack Obama and we can see a little bit of a racial tinge to some of his comments. But I really only kept this in because at the end, he says something that with the present context is a real weird. Obama's a puppet too, but they want him to do it because the left loves it when he orders torture or wireless wiretapping or murdering people. And, uh, you know, US military invading all over Africa, every African country. Uh, I mean, they think that's really cool because he's part black.

And I mean, it's just, it's cool. I mean, it's, it's like, it's, I mean, he's, I mean, his, uh, dad was reportedly a Kenyan or part Kenyan. I mean, it's, it's over. I mean, he could, he could poach the brains of small children and eat them for breakfast. It'd be beautiful because he, I mean, look, he's. Got melanin in his skin.

I mean, it's like, um, it's okay. It's funny that he's talking about eating children, uh, considering he will seriously make that argument a few years down the road. Yeah, no, he's saying that it's a flippant aside 2012. Um, but what do you, what are you describing? I think is actually a fair point, but very poorly said. And the other point that he's making is incorrect. The idea that Barack Obama can get away with these things because he's black is

a deeply racist, uh, viewpoint for him to have. But what he is pointing to, or at least they think he's trying to point to is the idea that probably a lot of middle of the road Democrats didn't do a good job of keeping Obama's feet to the fire and demanding more out of him, uh, then, uh, uh, he was delivering. And I don't think that's a function of, uh, his ethnicity at all. I think it's a function of them being on the team. It is, it is such a thing that he's pointing out though.

Uh, if we, in that time, you know, the right would say, Oh, look at what Obama's doing, he's ordering drone strikes. He's doing all this stuff as a way to criticize him. And you guys love that liberals love it when he does that. And liberals love war now. And the ones who, the ones who didn't were like, no, we were not against that. And then the centrist Democrats would be like, well, you're not being loyal. You're just doing all this shit.

And it's like everybody who doesn't want that to happen is being shit on and the people who say we do are the ones who are doing like that's essentially like it's the neocon worldview of loyalty or dishonesty. Yeah, I think, I think to an extent, I, I think that you just had, you had a situation where, uh, people aren't good at being their own, uh, uh, watch dogs to an extent, I think you see that to some extent with, uh, either party, whenever they're in power, they don't do a good job of calling out the ill deeds of, uh, the person who's on their team when they're, uh, in the presidency.

I think that's a natural phenomenon and it's something that's unfortunate. And there are forces within each side that do try to do that, but they're usually on the outskirts. They're not usually the people who are closest to the actual levers of power. Right. So this sort of argument coming from the other side is always in bad faith. Yes. Because they all, they understand to some extent, we're going to do that once our

guy is in, right? And we have done that like when Bush was in office or whatever. It's the GOP calling, uh, Iliana Omar anti-Semitic like, all right guys. Right. Right. You know, you know who you are. All right. I agree.

Um, so in this next clip, we get a guest and, uh, this guest is something that really opened an area of exploration, um, on this episode that I'm only getting a little bit into on this episode, but I think opens, I think it opens up a vista of understanding Alex in a different way. And I think that's fine. That's fairly surprising because if you're not paying attention, this guest would be super fucking boring. This person would be not even a blip on your radar, but you look

into him a little bit, you scratch the surface and he becomes Dick Cheney. No. Oh, okay. He becomes an introduction into some really fucked up worlds that Alex is connected to in ways that we might not have realized before. Here is Captain Mark Richards. No, I wish. Oh, here's his introduction.

The evidence is they stayed Sandy Huck. I want to go to Bob Fletcher. Wait, what? I appreciate him coming on today. We had a lot of breaking news. I wanted to get him on because he was a congressional whistleblower and advisor and you know, on TV and things during the Iran Contra affair. Okay.

Uh, I don't know. I don't know if I want to know which way this is going to land. So Bob Fletcher is just one more in a long line of Alex Jones's guests who claims that they were deeply mixed up in the Iran Contra affair. It's kind of like how every comic you've ever met is that story about that one gig they almost got that would have changed the course of their career. You know, it's sort of universal. Every comic has that story.

I don't have that. Every, I bet you do. I really don't. I bet you do. No, no gig. I've ever done drinks in you. No gig I've ever done would have changed my career, let alone once I haven't done some job or something.

There's always every comic has some sort of like, if I've gotten on that festival, right, go to opened up for that guy. I was this close. Nope. I have never been close. Fine. I can honestly say you're the exception that proves the rule far away from having been successful.

I've had a fucking thousand of those conversations with them. Some of them, me saying it, fair. If only I'd done that. Well, you've had a couple. Sure. Yeah. Um, but it's the same thing with Alex. All of his guests have that story about like I was mixed up in a round

contra weird part is that a number of them aren't making things up entirely. Even if they're embellishing a little bit to make a hero story for themselves. Right. They're not like making it up out of whole cloth. Like Larry Nichols can lie about the extent he was involved, but he was definitely making collect calls on behalf of the Contras. Yeah. Like he absolutely was doing that.

So he was involved in some way. He was lying about the hard rice, but he was telling the truth about the soft rice. He could have been like intern level, but he was, he was involved. Yeah. You know, that sort of thing for sure. So Bob Fletcher ran a toy company in Atlanta in the late 80s. In 1985, a guy named Gary Best came into his operation and offered to buy

the company and pay Bob to stay on running the place. Bob claims that gradually it became clear to him that Gary and a bunch of generals were selling weapons out of his former toy company. And after the Iran Contra hearings began, he recognized some of the people who were testifying as people who worked with Gary Best. Was he was he fucking played by Robin Williams? What is this? No, it was LL Cool J.

Bob reached out to investigators looking into the Iran Contra scandal. And they interviewed him or their, their offices interviewed them and deemed that his evidence was not worth pursuing. Oh, nothing that Bob has claimed about his run in with the Iran Contra business has ever been established as true. None of his connections that he claims to have made between people is substantiated by anything other than his word. Neither he nor Gary Best got in any trouble about Iran Contra.

And conveniently, Bob claims that all the records that the government has about his toy company have been classified as top secret. So not even he can get ahold of them. No one can. So president could Trump could we have we got, we need to get to the bottom of this in the world of propaganda. It's always good to establish a villain as Bob has done with Gary Best. Because you could repurpose them later when you need them.

Like Bob did when he accused Gary of having a hand in the Oklahoma City bombing. But we'll get to that later. That's a leap. We'll get to that. Okay. After Iran Contra special prosecutor Lawrence E. Walsh deemed Bob not worth his time. Bob decided that the Iran Contra hearings were a charade and decided to head out to the woods in Montana.

But wait, hold on. No, we'll get to those two things. Don't we'll get to that in a little bit. The Iran Contra, it's a charade to Montana. We go, we'll get to that in a minute. All right. For now, all you need to know is that since 2014, Bob Fletcher is rebranded as a planet ex Nabooru.

Truth or Oh boy, has made frequent appearances on coast to coast AM to discuss how this rogue planet is heading our way and how the elites are building underground cities to stay safe from its return. I'm liking his career path. I'm not going to lie to you. His website includes a section of photographic evidence from very of various claims. It includes a picture of a ton of gold bars with a caption quote in all caps, all the gold is gone from Fort Knox.

The rest of the pictures are, that's it. Yep. Okay. That's, that's photographic. There's more to the text. But does he have it? There's no, is he taking a home picture? Is this a selfie that he stole the gold?

It's just a bunch of picture of bars of gold. It could be fucking stock photos. That'd be a super villain move if I ever saw one. The rest of the pictures are clearly photoshopped shots of space purporting to prove that Nabooru is coming and it's way bigger than the earth. The last picture he has posted suggests, he suggests that it's a picture of a real life wormhole, but it's just the moon with spirals drawn coming out of it towards the earth.

Okay. It's in crayon, right? It's unsettling. He's, he's at like using a video game footage as reality. Oh, page level. Yeah. Any page level. No, I think it's a little better than that.

It's at least decently done art, like MS paint or whatever. Okay. So that's this guy's career, but that's not nearly all he's been into. And in this next clip, we get to hear a little bit from Bob, and he gives his own bio, so Alex gave him that bio. Bob, Bob wants you to know something else about him. First off, the, the, some miscellaneous random notes that I made for myself for this morning's program, uh, just hit right, right on the head, exactly what

you've been saying. I mean, it looks like you've been looking at my nose. It's kind of like, well, I don't have to do anything because, because Alex has already covered it. I mean, for bait, I'm almost word for word, uh, you, you, I, I'm gonna, I'm making this assumption, you realize that I myself was one of the primary people in creating what was the militia. Yes, you are the guy.

Patriot movement. Uh, and, uh, not, not certainly not taking all the credit cause there was a lot of people involved, but people need to know that you know what you're talking about. So Bob Fletcher, his bio that he wants Alex to, in his audience to know is that he personally was one of the bigger parts of starting the militia patriot movement. That's not good.

So Bob makes that claim on this episode and, uh, it's not true, but it's scary how close it is to the actual truth. Well, I mean, if you, if I'm looking at you meaningfully, if you went to the forest in Montana, you have to start a militia just to survive out there. I assume, right? That was kind of part of the tease. Yeah. Yeah.

So Fletcher was an early member and leader within the militia of Montana. One of the first militia groups to form in the aftermath of the Waco standoff in 1993, previous to their formation in response to the Ruby Ridge standoff, John Trockman, the actual guy who started the militia of Montana, attended a meeting at a YMCA in Estes Park, Colorado, that would go on to be known as the Rocky Mountain rendezvous, a conference where the modern militia movement was born. 160 self-described Christian men who were all very white, met to discuss

their discomfort about how the federal government was behaving, particularly as it related to Randy Weaver, the central figure of Ruby Ridge. Before this point, a lot of the things that we've come to experience as being deeply interconnected, like white supremacist groups or tax protester groups or Christian identity groups, or just vaguely, but intensely anti-government groups who are not generally working together. Extremists existed in those categories previously. They're often unwilling to collaborate in any meaningful way.

This 1992 meeting in Colorado was an attempt to solve that problem. Good. No, no, I don't want that. Pretty scary. I don't want that at all. The meeting was organized by extremist preacher Pete Peters, whose ministry largely... God damn it, Pete Peters! His ministry largely centered on his argument that homosexuals should be put to

death, as he laid out in a booklet he wrote called Death Penalty for Homosexuals. I'm sorry, was Whitey McWiderson taken? Pete Peters. Rock rocks. That'd be great. Petra? Yeah. Representatives of the Klan, Christian identity, the group Posse Comitatus, not the idea,

and the Aryan nations were all present. A literal murderer's row! Yep. This was a meeting that is literally something out of a comic book. A gathering of villains who don't really even like each other, meeting to discuss how to work against their common enemy, the federal government. We need to take down the government. We also need to destroy the Spider-Man!

All right, we're going to take your one under consideration. We're going to have to table that. Yeah, we're going to put that out. Robert's Rules of Orders, Mr. Goblin, or whatever. What grew out of that meeting was a strategy that now, 27 years later, we can see was probably pretty effective. From Stephen Atkins' book, The Encyclopedia of Right-Wing Extremism in Modern American History, quote, those in attendance at the Rocky Mountain rendezvous agreed, however,

that in order for the idea of armed civilian militias to work, the racist and anti-Semitic rhetoric, often voiced by some of the groups, represented there, needed to be toned down. The people drawn to these armed civilian militias would be mostly white, middle-class individuals who were not necessarily racist or anti-Semitic, but rather anxious and uncertain about the economy and their future. As it turns out, some excuses for bigotry never stop being effective. They're economic anxiety, Dan.

No, totally. They're not racist or anti-Semitic, they're economic anxiety. Totally. Absolutely. Oh, of course not. You see here from these groups, like the Aryan Nations and the Klan and Christian Identity, who are all meeting up to try and find ways to get better recruitment, they realize that they have to brand as being about economic anxiety,

as opposed to the actual racist shit that they were actually about. So, all that is to say is history doesn't repeat. Guys, hey, guys, everybody around here. We know how we feel about the not whites of all kinds, and a lot of the whites, too. But we can't say it. We can't do it. Well, it would hurt our recruitment.

Klan members, I'm looking at you. Take those hoods off. Would you rather be successful or overt? What would you rather be? I think a lot of them probably overt. I believe in my principles! So, the meeting was a strategy-forming brainstorm, as well as a white supremacist corporate retreat,

where presentations were given about how vaccines were an evil government plan, how it was Christian to resist the government, and how the situation the patriots found themselves in was a direct analog to the American Revolution. That is such a banality of evil moment where it's like... PowerPoints! Yeah, they were at a fucking holiday-in conference room, and they're like, we're doing breakout sessions,

and we're all going to brainstorm about ways to increase our white sales. Jesus. All of the ideas discussed at this meeting that was literally crawling with some of the worst of the worst in terms of white terrorism, would be completely at home on any of Alex's shows from any point in his career. All of these ideas are very close to Alex's milieu.

In attendance at this 1992 meeting was Louis Beam, then a representative of the Aryan Nations. You may recall that Beam was the guy who came up with the concept or popularized the concept of the leaderless resistance, which Alex talked about being a part of in the mid-90s. We have the force, we have the capacity, we have the will, and we will not surrender! We are the ones engaged in the force multiplication special ops.

We're the ones galvanizing organizations. We're the ones with leaderless resistance. We're the ones conducting a counter-terrorism, sting operation against you, Bill Clinton, you traitor, you globalist agent, and you, Governor Bush, from your CIA, Brown and Harriman brother, banker oil family. We got your numbers, and we're galvanized,

and we are moving forward. And I'm only the messenger, and you be fully aware are you back down now, or you're gonna pay! All right, can I get some stage directions? I'd like to thank our sponsors. Good times. Keep that in for humor. 11 years prior to that 1992 meeting,

Louis Beam was sued by the SPLC and forced to disband his 2,500-member Texas Emergency Reserve militia, which he was training to, quote, reclaim this country for white people. These people are very explicit about what they were about. They would tell 1992 when they had this meeting and decided to rebrand a little bit. Oh, funny story.

You know who else was at that Rocky Mountain rendezvous? Larry Pratt, head of gun owners for America, someone who Alex had on his show as a guest twice in the week after Sandy Hook. Pratt is said to have been the strongest proponent of the strategy moving forward being the formation of, quote, unorganized militias, which followed Beam's leaderless resistance ideology,

thus making them almost impossible to infiltrate. Larry Pratt was one of 160 people who were at this Rocky Mountain rendezvous, where all of these representatives from the Klan, Aryan Nations, other neo-Nazi groups, Christian identity, tax protester extremists all came together to strategize, along with Louis Beam, it's insane to me. This is a real, very serious problem.

It really bums me out because if that was the plot of a warrior-style road movie where, you know, you've got a small group of non-white nationalists, small gang, right, they go to this meeting, they realize what's going on almost immediately, everybody locks the doors. So now they got to fight their way out through each different gang, the Klan is all wearing white hoods,

the Aryan Brotherhood or whatever it is they wear. What do they wear? Patches? Sure. Yeah. And then you've got- No, they sing that Klan's Carter song, Patches. Right, right, right.

And then you've got- You've got your anti-tex protesters holding up a sign that says the three people voted on the Fed. Right. And they just have to find their way through the Holiday Inn Express that they were staying at. That'd be a great movie. I can't find a complete list of that 160,

but I bet there's some other names in there that we would be very familiar with. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Henry David Thoreau. Wayne Paul. Wayne Newton. Sure. Yeah, I mean, they had to have some entertainment.

So- Now that was the gig that if I had gotten- That could have changed your career. It could have changed- Well, who definitely would have? We'd be dead. Yeah. As I mentioned earlier, a man named John Trockman was also

in attendance at the rendezvous. He would go on to start the militia of Montana in January of 1994, or at least that's when it officially formed, but almost certainly existed previously underground. Though they did occasionally take up arms and storm a courthouse, as they did in March 1995, most of the militia of Montana's work was on the information warfare side of things.

They were less paramilitary in nature and more of a mail order militia. They were, quote, they were like the publisher's clearing house for militia groups to get videos on how to start your own militia, to quote Darrell Johnson, the author of that DHS report about the right wing terrorism and how he was warning about that back in 2009, that report that got suppressed after

organized backlash from people like Alex Jones, which isn't a coincidence. You know what that reminds me so much of? ISIS. I mean, it puts things into perspective a little bit. The idea that Alex is, like, so vociferously defending these patriot militia types, when you realize, like, a lot of the people he's actually involved with are

the people who were the ones who started this, and it's not a benign starting of it. Oh, no. That meeting was a, it was Chocoblock with racists, anti-Semites, and very dangerous people. So I think Alex might be in way deeper in a lot of this stuff than the, well, I don't know about present day, but at least at this point in his career and earlier,

I think he might have been way fucking deeper. Yeah, that's, who was the head of that mercenary group? Eric Prince. Blackwater? Eric Prince? That sounds like something that he masturbates to. Like the idea, if he wasn't at that meeting, like every night he dreams of being in. Something that Alex cries about not being there.

Yeah, that's probably true. That's like his dream come true, being this room, this rarefied air with these people who are standing up against the federal government. He could have considered himself actually a founding father of his dumb bullshit. With all the greats of white nationalist history. So the militia of Montana, like I said,

it was more of a mail order situation where they had the information side of things down. But make no mistake, the militia of Montana was an out and out hate group. The materials they distributed included a ton of white supremacist publications, work by Holocaust deniers, and plentiful articles referring to Judaism as the quote synagogue of Satan.

Trockman was a committed member of the Aryan nation before starting the militia, but tried to downplay that part of his life, most likely as a part of the message that came out of the Rocky Mountain rendezvous. In order to win people over to our side, we have to pretend we're not racists and Nazis. In an interesting turn of events, Trockman was kicked out of the militia of Montana

sometime after 2006. His brother kicked him out because he had cheated on his wife, which led Trockman to start a new organization called the Coalition for Men's Rights, which is basically a support group for men who had restraining orders against them for abusing their wives. Wait, so he was kicked out of the group for cheating on his own wife?

Yes. That was a moral issue within the leadership of the militia of Montana. I was like, whoa, that dude fucked his brother's wife. That's a whole thing. That's a story. I could hear that from the pronoun reference, but it was his own wife.

He started this Coalition for Men's Rights. And white men are great. You also see very similar tracks of where the hustle goes at different points. Then his son started this organization called Gamergate. Jesus Christ, you guys are awful. The Montana militia used shortwave radio

and early message boards on the internet to rally the masses and let them know about the noble fight the Patriots were waging against their oppressive federal government. From an April 1995 article in The Guardian, quote, in speech after speech, they issued dire warnings of the coming threat. Citing the Brady Bill, which obliges Americans to wait five days before purchasing a gun,

and the 1994 ban on limited number of assault weapons, the leaders urged their audience to read the writing on the wall, quote, gun control is only for one thing they say, people control. According to the militia, it's all part of a wider and undeniable trend. The government is now at war with the people. Whether it be excessive taxes,

expanding regulation, or planned national identity cards, Washington is constructing the apparatus of dictatorship. Alex Jones may as well have written those speeches. That is his worldview. Yeah, that's nuts. One million percent. That's nuts. So what happened, Jordan?

The short answer is that... Timothy McVeigh happened. Timothy McVeigh happened. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. McVeigh's actions completely derailed the militia community in no small part because he was an embodiment of exactly what they had preached needed to happen. But as soon as he actually existed,

all the militia had started making excuses and blaming everyone else. The head of the Michigan militia tried to concoct conspiracy blaming the Japanese as retaliation for... Pearl Harbor. No. Oh, no.

Casting of the subway. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We talked about what that cult did. That conspiracy theory was deemed so ridiculous that he was forced out of his own group. He was kicked out of the Michigan militia because he was perpetuating those dumb ideas. You got to be real dumb to be kicked out

of a dumb organization like that. Somewhat, but it also was indicative of the level of identity crisis that Timothy McVeigh had introduced into this world, this militia world. The real face of what right-wing extremism was about had been revealed. Although the attendees of Rocky Mountain Rendezvous

tried so hard to conceal it. And thus, recruitment went on the decline. But, of course, the ones who did come around after that point were substantially more radical than the recruits had been previously. Because they're the ones who thought that McVeigh was... that these guys were betraying their ideals and the ones that stuck around are the ones

who were like, yeah, McVeigh was absolutely right on. So, of course, we're not going anywhere. Yeah, or they're the ones who internalized the idea that it's all fake. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, this is the point where I'm getting a little bit... maybe I'm drawing connections that might be a little bit of a leap,

but I don't think they are. I'm not entirely sure, but I'll let you be the judge. This is a woefully simplistic and Cliff's Notes version of the story, but when you look at the players, you look at the motivations, you look at the connections, and it's not to come away with one very strong conclusion. In the early 90s, the Militia of Montana

and the Michigan Militia existed in a symbiotic state. The Montana group got the message out and radicalized people through media, like shortwave radio and what have you. The Michigan group gave them formal training. Alex Jones is clearly at least a spiritual extension of the Militia of Montana, as he is a media mouthpiece that spreads the narrative,

disseminates propaganda, and radicalizes people towards the harder stuff. Towards that paramilitary group that will give them the training that they need to become dangerous. So who's the Michigan Militia in this equation? The guy who started the toy shop? No, but the question is a little bit more complicated than just saying it's this guy or whatever.

Though the Rocky Mountain rendezvous happened in 1992, it was before the election that year. The Militias did not officially begin their organization until mid-1993 into early 1994, after the election of Bill Clinton, the first Democrat president since 1981. If you take Carter out of the equation, Clinton was the first Democratic president since LBJ,

and the Civil Rights Act, and the Voting Rights Act. The rise of Militias was as much about preemptively fighting against any further expansion of human rights to non-white citizens as it was about anything else. But they were too hard, and they were too fast, and they overplayed their hand with Timothy McVeigh. Whether or not it's like they intentionally sent him out to do that, or making that argument, I'm saying spiritually,

they went too fast. After the bombing of the Murrah Building, the government was forced to pay attention to militia activity, and it hurt their ability to do much more than produce propaganda. The Montana militia, living on through Alex, kept the embers burning until the time was right. In 2008, Barack Obama was elected, and in the same way that the militias organized and met up

to plan their strategies in Estes Park back in 1992, in early 2009, 30 far-right weirdos planned to summit on Jekyll Island in Georgia to plan their next moves and their struggle against the government. A Democrat had been elected, and thus the time was right again to form their militaristic ranks. I don't think that there's a coincidence in there. I really don't.

Because I think what you have with these groups is when there's a Republican in office, they know that whatever they care about isn't going to be infringed upon, and the window of discourse becomes so much closer to what they're into that why not just engage in the civil process? Right. Or at least back at this point, like back when Bush was in office, why not try and run for office?

Or why not try and deal with this through legislation as opposed to we need to take up guns? Because we have a sympathetic ear. Right. We know when Barack Obama's president, we don't have a sympathetic ear. Right. So we're going to have to use guns.

The Jekyll Island meeting was organized by Alex Jones' frequent guest Bob Schultz of the We the People Foundation. It was co-organized by another of Alex's guests, Edwin Vieira. Another person who was there was Eric Cunningham, a representative of the Oath Keepers, the group in which Alex finally found the Michigan militia

to his militia of Montana. The Jekyll Island meeting involved planning how to radicalize town hall meetings that were being held around the country. Tea parties were beginning to happen, and a perfect opportunity for recruitment was right there on the table, something that Alex and his Oath Keeper buddy,

Stuart Rhodes, have openly discussed on the show in the past. The meeting also involved learning from the lessons of the past. Timothy McVeigh screwed things up for the militias for a long time and forced them into a position where they had to construct elaborate conspiracy theories to pretend his attack wasn't exactly what they wanted to happen.

But the problems of McVeigh also provided them with an unexpected benefit. Because they'd spent years insisting the OKC bombing was a conspiracy, they'd created a built-in defense for any future events that could derail their movement. When one of their members would inevitably take their anti-government message seriously, they had a built-in excuse to say that it's the globalists

trying to make us look bad. I think that's where we find ourselves in 2012. And some of this, I think it explains a good bit of Alex's operation to a certain extent and how deeply entrenched he is in a lot of this militia history and seeing himself as a part of it. But I also think that he's such a complete crazy

that it obviously doesn't explain everything. He has so many different places that he's pulling these negative influences from. But I think that this is a huge one. And I think on some level, it goes back to even the beginning of his career. Is it possible that these organizations that we're talking about,

we theorized and all that stuff about some kind of dark money coming into his operation, is it possible that these organizations are the ones that kind of help prop him up? It seems unlikely. I think probably they maybe provided a support network early on. People who were of those communities probably

looked to Alex as another voice in the media of their side. So I think that there's probably material support in that way. But like Alex only got on the air in like what, 95 or so? Right. And by that point, like when OKC happened,

a lot of these two big ones especially, the Montana militia and the Michigan militia, both lost a lot of their clout. Like they did not have... Oh, I didn't mean then. Oh. I mean like as time has gone on. No.

Like, you know, after 2009, after the Oathkeepers start coming in together, like this is starting to be a group that can, you know, throw around money sometimes. I don't think they could at the point where they started to get involved with Alex. Yeah. I don't think so.

No, right. But later on. Yeah. I mean, Stuart was on the first time, like in April of 2009. And he, like we've talked about already, he had like a blog spot paid for the Oathkeepers. He didn't even have like a normal website URL.

So like, I don't think that there's any... I don't know. I don't know. This is the part of it that I think is pure for Alex. The parts that I think, like, I think whatever nefarious influence there could be, I don't think it has anything to do with this. I think that this is,

this is closest to where Alex Hart really lies. Yeah. In some ways. That makes sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When you peel away the layers upon layers of onions, he's like the guy who wants to dress up and play act as a soldier.

But only against white, non-white people. And 100% is surrounded by fascists, surrounded by bigots, Nazi adjacent people, and does his damnedest to make sure that you pretend that they're not those things in order to keep the appearances up so you can get more people in. Right.

I think that's probably one of the biggest pieces of this. I don't know. There's a lot more here. And I think we're only just now starting to get into some of the glimpses of Alex's militia leanings. And one of the reasons for that is, I think it's probably a huge piece of his show in the era that we don't have archives of.

Yeah. Like, I think if we went back to the 90s, I mean, we have just a small glimpse of stuff from the 90s. And in that glimpse is him literally saying, we are the ones with a leaderless resistance. Right. In the mid 90s. So like, the idea that I have, my working theory,

is a lot of those episodes that we can't find would probably be very deeply soaked in militia stuff and completely, like a lot of those guests even, like from that world, were probably fixtures of his show back then. And now it's not so much. He's grown and evolved. And now we have, in the wake of Sandy Hook,

you have, I mean, not that he wasn't a guest at other points, but you have Larry Pratt on twice in the week after Sandy Hook, one of the guys who was at the fucking Rocky Mountain rendezvous. In the same week, he has Stuart Rhodes on twice. The Oath Keepers guy who is more or less, whether you like it or not, essentially an equivalent to the Michigan militia. The Michigan militia, yeah.

Because if you really look at it, I mean, what do you have? You have a bunch of people from the Oath Keepers who maybe it's not what the organization is about, but there's a, like, I can come up off the top of my head with at least five people who tried to plant terrorist attacks who were a part of the Oath Keepers. And then you had Timothy McVeigh and Nichols,

both at least attended meetings of the Michigan militia. There are parallels that are very important and very real. There are real parallels between them. So you have these guests. Mystery rhymes. Right. So you have these guests who are gun supporting weirdos, but there's also more to it than that.

And then now we have on January 2nd, as Alex has pivoted away from it being about Sandy Hook. And now it's about the exact same ideas that these militias were putting out in the 90s. You know, this idea that the government's coming to take your guns and there's going to be a civil war. This is very much what the militias were saying after Ruby Ridge. Yeah.

So, of course, what does he do? He has one of the fucking main guys from the Montana militia on his show and doesn't bring up that he was one of the leaders of the militia of Montana. He says that he was a whistleblower about Iran Contra when none of that is substantiated in any way. But what is, is in the aftermath of Oklahoma City, Bob Fletcher, this guy who Alex has on his show.

You know what his comment was? There's a 10th planet, Nabooru. No. That was years later. That was years later. He said, get ready for more bombs. Okay. All right.

Cool. Cool, cool, cool, cool. So, I think that Alex is showing his cards a little bit too much. And maybe I'm making a mountain out of a molehill. And I, it's not a molehill, but it might not be a mountain. It might be a hill, mountain situation. But if you look at this, I don't see any way to escape the fact that the influences of Alex are all present in the early parts

of the militia movement in the early nineties. That was inescapably bigoted. It was. Yeah. And a lot of his influences are there. The things and the messages that they had whitewashed and put out into the world are very consistently repeated in Alex's world. And then guests who are from that world, like that literal meaning.

And then from the things that grew out of that meeting, all, they're all there. And it's a, it's, it's. It's a leaderless resistance in some ways. Yep. And Alex. Cause you can't 100% time to each other, but. We need those tapes, man. We need to find those old episodes.

Yeah. I think there's a treasure trove of like things he doesn't want people to know. Oh, I bet. Those tapes. We got to find those. Especially the time he told the story about the first time he did porn. Right. Right.

I was at this, I was at this audition and a guy was kind of invalidated. I was like, I could, I could get a job. Yeah. So I, I'll call myself out a tiny bit for my analysis in terms of like Alex being, because I think it is kind of overly simplistic to be like the militia of Montana and Michigan operated as like one was informational and one was paramilitary because there were other militias around too. But those were two very prominent ones.

I just look at it as if you have, if you want a successful operation, you need to have those two things be separate from each other yet working together. You know, you have to have the same goal of the people who are being trained in military tactics and the people who are putting out the propaganda. You need to be on the same page, but you cannot be related. You can't be the same thing because let's say one of these guys goes and shoots up something, then you jeopardize your propaganda outlet. You know, you have to keep them separated in some way.

And I think, I think you just, I think you see a mirror of it and Alex. Yeah, I agree with you. There are very, very clear parallels. Like, yeah, you know, history doesn't repeat it rhymes. Like this is this explosion of white nationalist militias and fucking murderers and all of that shit. It, it wouldn't be as often. I don't think I could be wrong, but it would.

We wouldn't see as much consistent violence if there weren't some sort of concerted ideology that ties all of these people together and we wouldn't and we would be able to do more if they had actual physical connections to each other. Well, certainly. I mean, if the organizations that were doing the, um, you know, I don't know, let's say when one of the oath keepers, that guy was found with like a napalm bomb in his, uh, in his garage.

01:16:51,520 --> 01:16:55,520 You know, when that happened, like who would, who hasn't, right? But when that happened, what an essential piece of how things keep moving forward is Alex gets on air and says that this is a false flag and the government's trying to set him up or something like that. Or when the Mayak report comes out, that sort of thing is a real threat to the militia people on the ground. It's not really a big threat to Alex in his operation or anything like that. It's a big threat to them.

So they need Alex to not be connected to them so he can lead, uh, some sort of a charge to get that redacted, recanted. Right. Of course. So which is why it's effective. Right. Even though there should be consequences for one hand washes the other as they say that sort of thing.

So that's troubling. Not great. A little bit later in the episode, they start taking some calls and Alex gets a call from a guy who I'm going to say, if I heard this, if I'm listening to this guy, I think he's, uh, I don't know how much he's like literally telling the truth, but he's scary. Okay. And he confronts Alex about something. Let's talk to Joe.

I was that girl from Kansas. You're on the air police. What's your take on this? Are you getting that training? Uh, Alex. Yes, sir. Um, privilege. Uh, yes, uh, I just wanted to let you know that I've been speaking with you for over,

uh, listening to your program for over two years now and nobody has ever called in to tell you what I'm going to tell you right now. There are secret sleep sleeper cells all over the country that are ready and willing to take charge of the situation and I'm not talking about kicking people's doors in. All right. Let's be clear about this. He's talking about, uh, terrorist cells that he and his buddies are involved in. Yeah.

Yeah. Now also take control of the situation, but I'm not talking about kicking doors in. He's talking about killing people. I either that or, uh, organizing Macy's style parades. That's not what he's talking about. That's not what he's talking about. No, but also notice Alex hasn't cut him off. This is the sort of thing he is totally fine hearing.

Right. The people that I hang out with are all ex-military. I spent 20 years in the Navy and I know that I've sworn an oath to the Constitution. And the only thing that bothers me, sir, about you is that you were never in the military, so you never sworn an oath to the Constitution. And I have my doubts about you being a DOD plant. And I want you right now to your worldwide audience to tell everybody that you are for real because you offer, you talk a lot, but you don't really offer any solutions.

And I'm an action person without solutions. Oh, you understand you're God and John Wayne and I'm nobody. I'm on air 17 years, you know, just nothing but delivering the goods over and over again. Uh, and, but, but, but I'm nobody and have no track record. You, we don't know who you are. Had a prank caller earlier. Now you're calling in saying they're sleeper cells. I kind of appreciate your call.

Um, so he moves on and he doesn't do a pledge to the Constitution. So from this guy's standpoint, he is a DOD plant. Oh boy. So the other thing too is that Alex at the end there is like, you're just calling in and saying that you're police. We don't know who you are. More than two, at least callers previous to this have said that they're police and said things that Alex likes, right?

The things he wants to hear. So he automatically believed them. Right. I'm only questioning this guy in any way because he is questioning Alex. Yeah. This is how you play the game with him. You say what he wants you to say and everything goes fine. You get out of pocket and he will actually respond to whatever you're saying, like a normal

human being might, right? Which is, I don't know who the fuck you are. Yeah. I have one issue with that guy's thought process though. Um, if he were a DOD plant, I believe he would have had to swear to the Constitution to the Defense Department. Yeah. Yeah.

Maybe. I'm pretty sure that no matter which side that guy is landing on, he would have had to swear that the only way he didn't swear enough to the Constitution is if he's fine. That's it. I'm not sure exactly how it goes. I'm sure in his private moments, Alex swears to the Constitution all the time. Uh, usually when he's coming. Yeah.

Yeah. So, uh, this throws a little bit of a wrench in the gears, uh, and Alex spins his wheels quite a bit, uh, trying to deal with the fact that one of his callers has called him out and he forgot to hit the dump button. All right. Alex Jones, I'm the worst person on earth. Okay. I'm not, but just whatever fantasy you got.

Okay. It's true. All right. Now can we move on now? Okay. You're a bigger man. You're a better man. I'm a bad man.

You're a good man. Now ignore all that. Now I'm bad. You're good. We got it. You're John Wayne. I'm crap. Now's the time.

110%. That's sad. It didn't hit it. It was, it didn't hit him personally at all. Uh-oh. He doesn't care. Uh-oh. He's, oh, sure, sure.

You're whoever. You're John Wayne. I'm nobody. Let's just move on. I'm totally fine. Totally not offended by this at all. You can't hurt my feelings. I've been on the radio for 17 years.

I have a track record. I think things done. I, I, what solutions have I not proposed? Have you not seen me propose? What? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know. I don't see me proposing. What? Bye-bye. Also, there's a weird thing too going on where, um, like Alex's response is like, okay, you're good. I'm bad. Now let's move on.

Like it wasn't saying you're bad. No. It wasn't even, it was a conditional sort of judgment even. Like the idea of like, you didn't serve the army. So I have some questions about you. Can you guarantee to me that you defend the constitution? Yeah. It was almost an initiation kind of thing where he's like, Hey man, I love you and I support

you. All you need to do is swear an oath right now and we're all on your team. You've got our, you've got our whole sleeper cell network ready to go. And I understand people's reluctance to do things like that when people confront you. Like I watched that Jacob Wall documentary and the whole thing is him and Laura Loomer going around with an affidavit that they want Alon Omar to sign saying that she didn't marry her brother. Right?

But that's a bad faith thing. That's a trap. These people are trying to set some sort of a trap that like, whether you sign it or not, they're going to make a big deal out of whatever you do. The only way to lose is to engage. That's not what this guy was doing. If Alex had said, sir, I understand. I haven't served in the armed forces.

I wish I would have. I could go back. I'd do it. Do it all over again. I had a bum leg, whatever. Whatever. Excuse me. He's like, and I assure you, I have done everything in my life.

To uphold the constitution that I hold so very dear. Like if he had done that guy would have been like, excellent. Now, say where you want us to hit maybe, but also give us a target, but then Alex could deal with that and gracefully get off the line or whatever. Like I would assume that this guy would say, we salute you. We're on your side or something like that. Yeah. Everyone listening.

They're not going to be bummed out to hear Alex salute the constitution again. No. So like there's no downside to it. It's not a trap. There's no trap here, but Alex is so defensive and weird that because this guy is critiquing the possibility that he isn't the Patriot hero that he presents himself as, he's got to respond in kind and get fucked up about it. I don't think it's that.

I think it's that the guy questioned Alex's manhood and Alex's mind. Like the way, the way that this guy presented it is, I've been, I was in the military for 20 years. I was in the Navy for 20 years. All of the guys that I hang out with, we're ex-military. We all swore a note to the constitution and you, and that's where Alex was like, fuck you. You think you're great.

Maybe you're so fucking cool cause you're in a fucking sleeper. There may be some masculinity piece to it. Oh, I think there's a huge mask. I think it's more, I think it's more about love of the constitution. You think it's about love of the constitution. I think it is, but just loves it too much or not enough. There might be. Yeah.

I think he thinks he loves it too much. Like Lenny and the mice. Yeah. Um, that metaphor is pretty appropriate. Um, I think that maybe there's a subconscious sliver that's about that masculinity issue, but I think it comes down to more like, uh, loyalty to the country and how dare anyone impugn, uh, and to be fair to this guy, whatever answer Alex could have given him is something he said on air a million times before, like swearing an oath to the constitution.

Of course. He, by 2012, he's done that a thousand times on air. He does nothing but talk about how much he loves the fucking constitution, but he didn't do it to that guy's face. That's true. And that's where that guy needs it. I need you to look me in the phone and tell me that you love the constitution. Alex, get on FaceTime FaceTime me, bro.

Yeah. Hello. I swear to the constitution. So anyway, in this next clip, Alex, uh, says something that kind of is the sort of thing that makes people like that last caller who is in a terrorist cell, uh, waiting to be activated somewhere in America, think that Alex isn't on the up and up. Believe me. I know I have a, uh, let's just say great uncle, uh, it's really a great cousin.

But anyways, the whole story is he was an army officer and, and, and, and all he's told us was he said, yeah, you know, I did all this stuff and covered operations. So then they bring me in. They go, well, here's your graduation in the CIA and it was dealing drugs and killing people in Chicago. And he said, I'm not, and, and, well, I'm not gonna, he didn't tell us much more. The point is, is that the thing is, then I know other people who have done, I mean, it's, this is like, it's not like a big deal to work for CIA.

It's like working for UPS, except they're running around killing people. I mean, it's a giant operation world. I mean, that's a big difference, uh, yeah, that's one substantial difference. I mean, you know, not to split hairs from knowing a lot of the criticisms that are thrown around about Alex in these communities online, these message boards. One of the issues that they have is that he constantly talks about having family and intelligence and stuff like that. He constantly talks about family being in CIA and shit like that and vaguely, uh, referencing,

uh, like he talks about his dad being a CIA dentist and all this shit. Like that's the sort of stuff that makes these paranoid real militia types, uh, like the people who are the descendants of the Michigan militia, let's say, they are suspicious of people like that who have familial ties to the intelligence organizations that they see as part of the enemy, part of what's trying to infiltrate them. Right. So when Alex, because they are, when Alex gets on air and he's like, I have a great uncle, I mean, great cousin who, uh, was in covert ops and then the CIA told him to kill

people and deal drugs in Chicago and he didn't do it. And I know tons of other people say, if the CIA told him to go deal drugs and, uh, kill people in Chicago and he said, no, he's dead. Right. Yeah. Right. There's no way you're walking away from, uh, hey, we want you to be disruptive and murder a bunch of people, uh, just sign here.

Oh, you don't want to sign? Have you ever done porn? Uh, I don't, look, it, it's, that's what, that's what's being, uh, expressed by that caller. And it's really funny that only a little bit later in the show, Alex manifests exactly why the hardest core folk don't trust him. Cause he's not trustworthy. No, I wouldn't trust him.

I wouldn't trust him even if I was, even if I was his best friend. If you were operating in a splinter cell or you imagined that you were, I wouldn't trust you either. No. If you're in any kind of cell, there's a problem here. Trust anybody. No. Yeah.

High states. Um, so this next scope is the last one from this episode, uh, and it's Alex saying what needs to be done about the globalists. Oh, so he is proposing. What's incredible, Bob, is they now are going to fully gut the country and bring it all down to Rob us like a third world nation. Bob, pleasure investigations.com. Amazing.

Look forward to having you back on very soon. They are trying to move on us right now, but if we get the word out like Bob did, we can back them off again. We can back them off again. That's how Alex ends the show. If we get the word out, we can win this again. That's not what they did in the nineties. They didn't get the word out in the nineties.

What Bob Fletcher was involved in was not getting the word out. You could make a decent argument that the militia of Montana was less violently oriented than some of the others. And that's probably why Alex would have Bob Fletcher on as opposed to someone from the Michigan militia or something like that. I could understand his more, uh, more comfort with someone, uh, who wears that uniform as opposed to someone who wears the other one, but make no mistake about it. All of it grew out of the Rocky mountain rendezvous that was lousy with Nazis, Arians, white supremacists

and people who, uh, wanted to blow up federal buildings quite frankly. Yeah. So when Alex says what we need to do is what Bob did in the past, that's not cool. I was struggling to find a better way to put it. There you go. I think we made fun of Alex for doing that one, but what was it like saying the globalist is super uncool, super uncool, Bob Fletcher is super uncool. Super uncool.

But you see here, this is what Alex is suggesting now that we have like, uh, this caller is confronted him, uh, and said that he doesn't have solutions. He has a solution. That solution is do what Bob did back in the nineties. If you do do what Bob did in the nineties, going to end up with Oklahoma cities. You're going to end up with Timothy McVeigh types. If we, if you're going to end up with a national guardsman caught with a shit ton of fucking guns ready to start killing people, you're going to end up with, uh, you're going to

end up with a guy from the oath keepers of the napalm bomb. You're going to end up with all of this stuff. You're going to show up at CNN's office. Sure. A bunch of globalists getting bombs in the mail, but it's all false flagged. It's all false. Don't worry about it. No big deal.

So I just see like, uh, I, I want to call myself out a tiny bit and I think that there is so much more to learn about this, this world. Yeah. And I think it would be probably impossible for us to at any point do an episode where we fully captured the, uh, the militia movement in the nineties and how it relates to Alex and the consequences thereof and the parallels between 2009 and 1993, like those sorts of things. It would be something that would be a doctorate level, uh, dissertation.

No, that's, that's a, that's a Lord of the Rings trilogy level of, uh, information there. Right. But I think some of these things are important to introduce to the conversation in the same way that we did that episode about Bill Cooper, uh, without, you know, fully diving into him, introducing that into our, our world, uh, that we were able to discuss. Was Bill Cooper in with, uh, this movement? Yeah. He would have been old enough to be, right?

Yeah. Bill Cooper was, uh, he was a part of the Arizona militia. Um, you know, we take a toe dip because it's what Alex brought into the conversation. He has Bob Fletcher on. I don't, I don't like, when I hear that name. I don't immediately think like, Oh, I know this guy who was second banana in the militia of Montana. I don't have that encyclopedic, uh, knowledge.

So Alex says that he's involved in Ron Contra. I start looking into that. Oh, two minutes later, he says, I started the militia movement. That's right. Well, now I have to look into that. Yeah. Yeah. You start going down these paths and these are the things that you start to find these

parallels start to become clear. You start to think, you start to learn, you know, a little bit more. I already knew about a bit about the Montana militia, but you start to be like, Oh, wait, that was started by this guy who was there at this 1992 Estes Park summit. Who else was there? Oh, shit. Larry Pratt was there. Isn't that weird?

There's so much. There's just so much. What did he have Bob Fletcher at? We heard a little bit of it, but why did he specifically have Bob Fletcher on? Let's talk about how they're going to take the guns. Right. I mean, it's all just the same shit. Right.

So it's, it's, it's very easy to miss. Well that's what I'm saying. It suggests to me that Alex purposefully gave him the intro of somebody who is involved with Iran Contra, as opposed to giving the man's full credits, which include incitement to violence and all kinds of, Cause I think it would be super suspicious. It would be super suspicious. So Alex himself was probably like, dude, don't bring up that fucking shit.

Don't give me your actual intro. I mean, you saw, even in that clip, he talks over him when he's like, I am, I'm one of the people who started them. Yeah, you did. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you did. Yep. Huge, important.

Move on. Move on. Don't tell anybody. So which in and of itself is strange because generally he would want to be associated with this person who's a part of militia royalty, which indicates in some way that there's a discomfort with where he stands, not like in the hierarchy of the world, but like in terms of where the narrative is at in the beginning of 2013. Yeah.

And I don't know if he wants people to realize that like a lot of these people that he's talking to are who they are or they're such like extremists, well, it's only Montana militia stuff. It's only a fucking year and a half or so after this that he starts talking about Nabooru stuff. Fletcher. Fletcher really jumps the Nabooru shark that quick 14 is when he started making appearances on coast to coast.

Oh, that is strange. That is a strange turn for the guy to start the modern militia movement and lead to the deaths of how many people at this point, a few to then just be like, you know what, I think I reached the top of my profession. I think I'm going to start talking about the 10th planet. Well, is Michael Jordan playing baseball still like that's the level of career change we're talking here. I think you get to a certain point when you're kind of a con person and you just like, well,

this con has run dry. Yeah. There's nothing left in this. Well, let's try this one. Yeah. Yeah. It's the same thing that all of these people do like Cernovich being a pickup artist and then getting into Gamergate and then jumping on the Trump train and then pretending he's

jumping off it. Same thing with Mark Dice being a memory scam salesman, then a pickup artist. He wrote a book about it, then started getting into the, there's Satanists everywhere racket, wrote a book under the pseudonym John Connor that went popular online, then revealed himself as Mark Dice and started going on Alex's show, then tried to do comedy. Like it's, it's all like these people are all, all over the place. There's no discreet anchor. And I can relate to that on some level, but just without the con without the con intentions.

Like I did stand up for a long time and then I stopped and I'm doing this. Like I understand pivoting, like there's nothing, there's nothing inherently wrong in pivoting. I didn't mean it. It's just when, no, no, I know, but when all of your pivots are scams, that's when it's a problem. Yeah. I think that's, I think that's kind of a endemic to their psychopathic mind, psychopathic narcissistic mind view of like, why the fuck couldn't I just do this?

You know, right? I'm the fucking great. Something that you do kind of wish you could tap into from time to time with these guys where they're like, yeah, I'm just going to write a book about being a pickup artist now with no research, no, nothing, no history. I'm not going to do any fucking work at all. I'm just going to say a bunch of dumb shit because I know I'm the smartest human being on the planet.

Yeah. Like that's something you wish you could tap into when it's a, it's an unbridled level of confidence that is there. Right. There's another little piece to it too, and that is that I need to do much more research into this to make this claim like very solidly, but it does appear that the militia of Montana was like, you know, they were a mail order kind of operation where they were selling these DVDs and, uh, informational things.

Right. There's an argument that you could make that Alex is spiritually in that lineage too, in terms of trying to monetize the militia world. Yeah. There's like a scam aspect to the Montana militia that didn't exist, uh, as strongly in some of those other more militaristically based militias. Right. Like how the clan was an MLM, like that whole thing.

Yeah. Yeah. So there's a, there's a lineage there too that, that lives on. I don't know. My head is full of thoughts and I'm excited to see if any of this pops up, uh, going down the road here in the beginning of January or how Alex tries to navigate this really treacherous water that he finds himself in. Yeah.

Um, in, uh, in early 2013, but that is one thing that you'd have to do when you're in treacherous water, you got to give it up to the Somali pirates because they know how to get through it. They're good at the wheel. You got to give it to them. So I don't know. We'll see. But also I need to find those old episodes.

I know they're out there somewhere and I'll just put the call out if anybody has any idea of how to get your hands on real old Alex Jones episodes, well, they're in all the goddamn splinter cells. That's the problem. No, those, those places where those people wouldn't talk to us, they're not listening. No, I don't think so. Yeah. But if anybody has a line on anything, if that, if I swear to God, if the last block

buster standing has all those tapes were road tripping right now, well, I contacted Alex's old, uh, blockbuster, no, his old radio stations and, uh, like the, the Austin public access channel. Yeah. And, uh, they, they don't even really know they, some of them said like, I think there's got to be copies somewhere, but we don't have access to them or anything. Like, gotta find them. They don't have access to CIA.

So no, like someone who worked there probably has copies, but they, yeah, it was that sort of thing. Who knows. So anyway, I need those. I need them. If you have them, let me know. But until, uh, until we come back with another episode, um, and again, sorry, this is a little bit short, uh, in terms of, I was really hoping we'd have a nice, really,

four hour episode. Yeah. Because I have a little bit of my pressures alleviated. I think I found an apartment. So like it was a bad week of, uh, stress throughout and you lost your job. So like neither of us, neither of us were doing good in terms of life stress, but your situation is pivoted into a maybe more stressful, but different scenario. And I may have found an apartment.

So I was really hoping we could come together and really, really sit down for a good five hour, uh, nonsense, but it just, yeah, we'll get there. We gotta get our sea legs back. Yeah. Yeah. It's been a rough week. Yeah. Our, uh, our ability to traverse treacherous waters is, uh, coming to a close.

Hopefully. Yeah. So thanks for, uh, sticking along for the ride along the way and, uh, we'll be back next week. Absolutely. Um, but in the meantime, we have a website. We have a website. Is it knowledge fight.com?

That's correct. That sounds good. Yep. Do we have a Twitter? Uh, we do. We do. Uh, we also have a group on there called go home and tell your mother you're brilliant. Now with over a thousand walks.

What? Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah. Pretty cool. Yeah. Thank you. It's everybody.

iTunes, download, listen, review, et cetera. All that good. Patreon, all the good fun stuff. Absolutely. Um, but for now, I guess if we look at this, I would say, boy, we did not have any winners on this episode. I disagree. I think there's one and his name is let Pritchard, the guy who wrote the Larry Summers memo that

was taken out of Fair enough, Fair enough, let Pritchard, I'm certain has never killed anybody, but one guy technically probably has. And that is a gentleman by the name of Alex Jones, Andy and Kansas. You're on the air. Thanks for holding. Well, Alex, I'm a first name caller. I'm a huge fan. I love your work.