Knowledge Fight - #341: September 5, 2019

Episode Date: September 9, 2019

Today, Dan and Jordan check in on the present day of the Alex Jones Show to try to see how he was responding to recent headlines about his Sandy Hook lawsuit. In the process, the gents try to figure out why Alex's lawyer did an interview with Stefan Molyneux.

I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys saying we are the bad guys knowledge and your knowledge fight Andi and tanzas stop it andi and tanzas it's time to pray andi and tanzas you're on the earth thanks for holding hello alex and mr cindy i'm a huge fan and love your work knowledge fight hey everybody welcome back to knowledge fight i'm dan i'm jordan we're a couple dudes like to

sit around drink novelty beverages and talk a little bit about alex joe indeed we are dan jordan dan jordan what is the longest you've ever waited for a restaurant do you know what i'm saying or a bar do you remember when we were in austin and there's that barbecue place yeah that was like you a four hour wait yeah the line that goes around people get out there and camp out every day yeah yeah yeah i was thinking about that and it must be incredible it must be incredible it is i would never wait four hours for it well i mean you probably call like a week ahead for catering and then just forgo the the line that's just a highly in demand barbecue place everyone everyone loves it i don't know i don't i can't think of anything that really sticks out in my

head because i don't go in for that at all period no waiting no waiting at all i would rather get something that's less good i think right right i know that there have been times when i've waited before because i have like you know vague flashes of memories of those those discs they give you that light up yes yeah yeah the apple bees yeah i know that that's happened but i can't i can't really think of many instances where it has yeah anytime it's like more than like a 10 minute 15 minute wait i have no time for it so 15 minutes is your top probably but that doesn't seem that crazy yeah because if i went to i don't know like i went to some takeout place i hadn't called ahead if i just show up and i'm like i want this order yeah still might

take 10 minutes with them to make my food and give it to me yeah for sure so i don't know it's not too bad 10 15 minutes seems reasonable yeah i wouldn't wait an hour though that's for sure have an hour get out of here i think i think i've only ever waited for a restaurant reservations for an hour like that's the longest i've ever done so and that's because i wasn't in control you know it was like a family gathering sure and once three people are like we're waiting you're like oh shit well i don't like food that much too yeah so like waiting for a restaurant is absolutely not appealing to me i was trying to think if i've waited in line for movie tickets oh there's no way you've waited in line especially because since i was like

16 17 when i was younger i worked at a movie theater right and i just look at the people waiting for tickets and scoff at them that's where all queuing uh was ruined for you in the first place and then like i grew up in colombia missouri when i was like of an age where i had like sort of autonomy over decisions and like uh not a ton of bands come to colombia so waiting for tickets was really ever that huge a thing for me in that city either i bet it could have been if i had like more obscure tastes but no i don't know i don't uh i don't you just don't wait for shit you don't you don't queue in a line not uh not too much i'd rather get to get down to it yeah has snl has snl put out a bad sketch about queuing on now where they spell out you like a line and

100 and then it's like i'm not out or no who's waiting in a line and then it involves like the star trek character or the bond oh for sure like it's all mashed up into there and it's hilarious it's a line of people named keo that would be fantastic if that hasn't been happened keenan write it up hey come on write it up hey steven so jordan this is a podcast right i don't know much about waiting in lines but i do know plenty about alex jones and i only know a little bit about both that's the fun uh so jordan today we got a interesting uh sort of present day episode to go over but before we get to that like take a little moment here uh to say thank you to some people who have signed up and are supporting the show i think that's a good idea so first

the anna a n n h a thank you so much you are now policy wonk i'm a policy wonk thank you anna thanks anna the anna the anna uh yes and uh tom thank you so much you are now policy wonk i'm a policy wonk thank you tom next taylor thank you so much you are now a policy wonk i'm a policy wonk thank you taylor next mr sir thank you so much you are now a policy wonk i'm a policy wonk mr sir thank you very much uh i would consider adding an esquire as well sure absolutely that'll come in uh to play a little bit later oh of course it will next anabelle thank you so much you are now a policy wonk i'm a policy wonk thank you and finally they say thank you to some people who signed up on an elevated level we appreciate it very much so nick thank you so much charles thank you so much

and francis mary thank you so much you are all now wonderful technocrats i'm a policy wonk crikey mic that's fantastic have yourself a bro how's your 401k doing bro all right we gotta go full tilt buggy on this watch and all right let's just get down to business we ain't making that money off that heroin why are you pimp so good my neck is freakishly large i declare info war on you thank you so much nick charles and francis mary uh mary thank you very much nick charles and francis mary yes not mary no uh we appreciate it very much and if you're out there listening you're thinking hey i like what these guys do you can uh sign up uh to sport the show on our website knowledgefight.com there's a button that says sport the show yeah um so jordan today like i said we

got a mostly present day situation going on um because i was looking at things i was like well you know what would be great uh everyone seems to be interested in all of these headlines that are coming out yeah about alex jones losing an appeal in the sandy hook lawsuit seeing as we've come to the point in the 2013 investigation where it looks like things are going bad yeah for alex's coverage of sandy hook oh yeah it you know we got a break in the case in the present day breaking the trial so everyone probably wants to know what we think about that and alex's response to this news breaking and so i thought all right that news broke on september fourth so we're going over september fifth today although i lost my patience for this episode pretty quickly okay of course and i think

you might be able to figure out why oh no robert barnes is with us at the bottom of the hour to hit some p intel we are gonna be filing lawsuits next week we've been a few weeks behind but next week we're gonna be filing some very important lawsuits in defense of america and free speech okay yep there we go law lawsuits in defense of america and free speech yes absolutely and we got a little bit of barns got plenty of bars we got plenty of barns the show is so barns heavy oh that's not good in the present day just oh god damn barns i don't understand how you can have a show that's entirely about your own legal troubles now in between in between calling for a fucking violent overflow overthrow right then it's just your own legal issues can you imagine if like anderson

cooper's all the sudden is just doing news about his own how he's getting sued yeah exactly i kind of find it conceptually interesting but in practice it's not a good show no it's the idea of it makes me laugh yeah yeah no i agree much like the idea of an snl sketch makes me laugh right the actual sketch probably not gonna work out no not gonna happen so alex has barns on to talk about these legal developments and then what he's talking about there at the end of that clip is he's been threatening for a really long time to sue the Associated Press and media organizations because he believes that the Associated Press said that he wrote that book no one died at sandy hook and that he had lost a lawsuit about that book however as we've discussed in the past this is

erroneous this is a different website had that headline and had taken some content from an ap article but the ap article was not that this was all on that other website right that had redistributed so if alex tries to sue the Associated Press over that that's gonna get thrown out of court like there's no way but instantly but he's posturing and grandstanding like next week we're gonna file this of course he's been saying that for fucking ever of course it's ridiculous there are a few weeks behind he said they were a few weeks behind so it's way longer than that he's been saying we're about to launch these these websites barns has just been crossing the teas and dotting the eyes yuck well they had to make it through the summer of rage and they have survived the ship

isn't attacked after but there's a summer of rage coming oh no this winter summer winter is the summer of rage yeah so alex gets to talking about some new products that he's got okay he has a new product oh no and this product is it sounds crazy to me as we go to break i want to just remind listeners we're only here because of your tutelage because of your patronage because of your support and i salute tutelage and i thank you from the bottom of my heart and i want to unveil a product that i believe because i've been taking it for several months you may have noticed my clarity and focus in the last few weeks really what oh this this product clarity and focus through the roof lately this is the product that provides clarity and focus you see him he's laser focused

on the issues he's in the weeds man this guy's policy wants okay yeah and thanks to this product he's the worst advertisement for this specific product in the history of ever i've been focused real laid back calm some would say friendly uh non-combative so this is a product called chill force and here's alex saying a few words about that well chill force does that but with the latest this is going to be the new rage the next few years where it's a system that chills you out but heightens your awareness looks like a smooth zen awareness you can get chill force out of the gates alex is like just do mushrooms man i would say he's like six months away from like how close is he getting to like soma yeah at one point does it cross over into like he's just doing

brave new worlds yeah yeah this product will make you really uh really it'll make you hyper aware but also really relaxed yeah 100% all right buddy i don't think he'll ever do i i think he can't combine it in one product what he wants you to do is wake up in the morning take some brain force to get you through your morning then as you're coming down on that you take some chill force to go to bed at night put all that chill force chill forces for the evening knockout is for going to bed gotcha got even more products in the life cycle yeah yeah he wants you to take a pill for literally every moment of your day to to do something info wars health can heighten every experience info wars is life yeah i'm surprised he hasn't put cbd into anything let's see that's

what that's the other thing i was thinking is that this is a pathetic attempt at like trying to tap into the oh yeah no you're rising cbd market that makes sense yeah of course i think that's probably what's going on um but either way i just think it's really funny the idea alex is selling a chill out chill force chill force one that he's been taking effectively one thing i am known for is not my outburst ridiculous oh boy so alex i'm gonna skip this clip because just alex saying that he has new shows coming soon and that he's gonna be soon going to a 20 hour live a day broadcast format sure which is like i i cut that clip because it's just the same thing as the lawsuits are coming yeah it's all the same shit over and over and over again yep like you you throw in a couple

of new novel little pieces of bigotry here and there some weird defense of something trump does and then the rest of it is all just like it's coming don't worry about it yeah down the road yeah um so we get to uh this point and i i should say there are some instances of alex saying that like he's indicating some uh desires to get away from trump but not what it is is uh after the El Paso and Dayton shootings trump came out and said hey maybe these red flag laws maybe there's some mal some value to this some merit uh and alex uh you know his narrative on that was that uh that was the ropa dope yeah trying to get the globalists to reveal themselves and give them nothing right and now it appears that that is not true okay and the trump might actually or at least people

within the administration might actually be interested in uh these red flag type laws sure and alex is saying that he will call for impeachment if uh trump goes down that road okay all right so we'll see about it all right okay but i'm less interested in that because there's a bigger issue going on and that is why he sat down with the fifth in the first place and that of course stay with us we're gonna hit a key topic when we come back and i really just lose a sandy hook lawsuit no i didn't wait till you hear this all right you're never gonna believe the truth okay so he didn't lose a sandy hook no of course not i mean it depends on what you mean by sandy

hook lawsuit i suppose yeah there's wiggle room have you ever seen outside you're wrong you haven't anything anything that's obviously true nope you are an idiot for thinking that how do you know anything exists yeah oh man now here's barns to talk about existentialism here's uh the most solipsistic lawyer that i can think of barns i don't believe anything exists well that hurt trying to parody his breathing patterns really please don't do an impression of barns it is a hazardous thing we are professionals and even then it's it's dangerous to go so alex said gets into he comes back from commercial break and he gets into talking about the sandy hook lawsuit i know when listeners hear about sandy hook your eyes glaze over show to mine but this

with sandy hook disinformation is illustrated of how the corporate media lies in mass towards a certain aim so if i can show the viewers a close shot of this please another twist in the sandy hook family's defamation case against alex jones that's the washington post two months ago got no coverage you have to specifically search the headline even find it it's buried that there was a special interest case where the supreme court came in of connecticut took over the case before and ever even went to trial years before i was going to trial which is incredibly rare saying that there were anomalies to how i was being treated well let barns as an expert on this describe how important this is notice you don't see how we're

winning there and how they're trying to railroad us but it's so bad that even supreme courts are coming in not after the case but before very rare so first things first that washington post article that he's talking about is not buried it's literally as easy to find as any other article that's been posted on their website if you just look for it alex is just trying to present the idea that there's some larger story where he's the good guy getting railroaded but the media won't cover it and that is bullshit that media that uh washington post article uh and the stuff about the connecticut supreme court that has nothing to do with alex's main court case that's specifically about the sanctions he was hit with after he drunkenly put out a million dollar bounty on the opposing

council after which he was uh found to have unknowingly or after he was found to have unknowingly sent them email containing illegal pornography as part of his discovery process from the article quote the connecticut supreme court agreed to hear an appeal of a lower court's decision sanctioning broadcaster alex jones from later in the article quote last month a judge in connecticut sanctioned jones for two reasons she said his legal team failed to produce several documents despite repeated orders and she decried what she described as a 20 minute deliberate tirade and harassment and intimidation on jones's broadcast about uh about the lawsuit in one of the plaintiff's attorneys alex's lawyers had a number of complaints about this which largely

boiled down to claiming that her sanctions were a violation of alex's free speech rights sure this is all good and well but from everything is that's publicly available it doesn't appear that this connecticut supreme court appeal is concluded yet so i have no idea what that has to do with the current situation and all the headlines that are coming out now and certainly it has no indication or bearing on the idea that the larger case has anything to do with the content right connecticut supreme court or that they think that he's being unfairly treated in that case right this is narrowly about the sanctions that the and the the conversation as i understand it is about whether or not the judge can sanction alex for something he does out of court right with the the the question being

does his out of court behavior in as much as he's threatening and trying to intimidate the opposing counsel right i remember that does that affect the court proceedings yes and that i agree but i'm not a lawyer that is a very simple question i'm not a lawyer and i don't know i don't know how it works within a courtroom so i understand why someone would want to talk it out right right i understand but this isn't the wild west where it's like no no no it's cool he did it in the saloon he threatened to kill my lawyer that's a completely different situation than if he did it in court i could i could see the reason for this connecticut supreme court to hear it even if they didn't agree with alex's interpretation right it means nothing that they agreed to hear it other than

like that's kind of a novel question let's see what the arguments are exactly i think that's what it really is is there they're sending it to the supreme court so they don't have to deal with it ever again and it's not like the connecticut supreme court stepped in and was like no no no no no you're wrong in my boy alex over here yeah yeah yeah stop it with that shit no they're more like okay fine we'll we'll listen to this asshole yeah let's do it the current headlines we're seeing involved the defamation lawsuit he's facing in texas the texas case uh was filed against alex and it was brought by neil hesslin the father of a six-year-old child who was killed at sandy hook as the case got going alex tried to have the case dismissed which did not work he then tried to appeal the

decision to not dismiss the case and the news stories popping up now are all related to the texas court of appeals determining that the case can't be dismissed and alex has to pay all the legal fees incurred by the other side during the appeal and he has to produce all the internal documents and emails in that discovery process which he had been refusing to provide all in all what i see here is an intentional strategy being employed by alex and his legal team of stalling and sidetracking he doesn't want to see the inside of a courtroom act actually having to be under oath and talking about this stuff because he knows he fucked up courts are really bad places for conmen but the legal system is also a place where other cons can be run so instead of moving forward with

the actual case uh you stall you refused to hand over required documents and then that turns into the judge issuing a side motion and before you know it you're fighting a largely unrelated battle over whether or not you should give the lawyers your emails that drags on forever and on the off chance you win one of these little side quests you can run around pretending that the whole case is a sham as proven by the win if you lose that little side thing as alex did in this texas case you end up having a bunch of articles written about how you lost this appeal and then you can get on your show and be like the media saying i lost the case they're all fucking liars it's a win win and you prolong the like the day of reckoning when you're actually in court under oath and as

far as the costs go like what is it 10 grand for the cost of the plaintiff's lawyers on that from what barn says uh it's lower it's not it's kind of a negligible cost whenever you already have a large case going yeah so it's exactly yeah and and how much of that is like bravado i don't know but i would assume that you know if you're already in if you're in for a penny you're in for a pound that kind of thing well and not least of which is if your main court case keeps going and the penalties are millions of dollars which uh i imagine we're going to be seeing very high penalties at the very least possible it's definitely worth 10 grand or whatever to put that day off another six months you know to make sure that hey at the at the very you know i'd i'd almost rather

sell a lot of iodine in six months and maybe that'll help lighten the blow yeah it's almost like i would spend all of my money pushing the case back for the rest of my life rather than just lose and still have to give all the all my money away it's uh that is a strategy yeah from everything i can tell alex's behavior is absolutely the behavior of someone who really really doesn't want some specific thing to come out really doesn't i don't know what that thing is but he knows that something about this case exposes him if i had to guess i would say it's either something about the source of his money or something that indicates how editorial decisions are made at info wars either of these things would be pretty much uh you know incredibly germane to the sandy hook

lawsuit so i could obviously see alex fighting like crazy to stop the discovery process in any way he can it turns out that his only real strategy is kind of just to throw temper tantrums that take a while to resolve and slow up the process which can buy you a little time like six months in the case of this texas appeal yeah but it's not going to work in the end he's just delaying the inevitable and that inevitability is that whatever he doesn't want people to know is going to come out based on how these cases seem to be going and how he's pretty regularly being forced to pay plaintiffs legal fees i would say that he has every reason to suspect that if these cases proceed he's going to be bankrupted if he thought that he had half a chance to win on the merits he would be doing

he wouldn't be doing all this weasley shit to stall the cases these feel like his last gasp gasp hail mary attempts to avoid what could easily be his undoing oh yeah if not just from a public humiliation standpoint at least from a possibly going broke one like it just it i can't get away from this strategy not matching someone who wants to be in court yeah like someone who wants to prove themselves innocent wouldn't play these sorts of games of course now these are the games that are played by people who need to not go to court yeah this is the this is the corporate like this is like equifax and shit like that they will throw off any side the the billion dollar company is like toss this toss this let's do everything we can and then you always read those stories where it's like

after 10 years of appeals and it's gone all this way equifax finally agrees to pay everybody fucking nothing which they knew they were going to have to do anyways yeah it's one of the downsides of the fairness of the legal system is things are considered and yeah so alex i don't agree i don't think i don't think he's in a good place but uh you know i'll tip my hat to him because he claims that he's not seeking money from the sandy hook law uh parents well that's nice in this lawsuit although he does kind of contradict himself in this clip but then look at this alex jones seeks a hundred thousand from sandy hook families but daily beefed none of that's true i wave attorneys fees but now they keep filing more and more suits on top of it for no reason so we're not

gonna be able to do that wait wait wait wait wait wait wait so the daily beast reported that alex is seeking the hundred thousand dollars which is in lawyers fees yes uh and that's not true right but now he is doing that well they have to because they're suing him more he has to now want that okay so he is so the article is true yes okay so alex saying it's not true as a lie well it wasn't true okay but now it's true all right see you okay whatever here's what he's got for you when the article was written not true okay today the day after the article is written totally true okay sounds good not a lie hooray so alex in this next clip uh just tries to deny and obfuscate the reality of the situation he's in i've not gone to trial on any of this clearly it's been filed

in democrat controlled areas to railroad me it's so obvious that the supreme court of canada got got involved i mean this is amazing but it does make me wonder what are they gonna do next here's yesterday all over the newspapers and the paper locally today jones loses texas appeal an ongoing lawsuit with sandy hook father didn't lose an appeal we'll explain that now it's it's uh you know it's all just down to what you define like you're able to say things like this because you can be like well technically the declining of the appeal was based on a jurisdictional issue yeah and it wasn't on the merits of the case or whatever you know like you can you can split hairs like that if you want to but it's not uh the if you look at the larger picture of the case as it's going

yeah this is not a positive for alex it's one more loss it's one more battle lost in a in a long ongoing war well it's a thing that alex was pursuing and that is to appeal the non-dismissal of the case right if the end result of that is no yeah whatever the reason for the no is it's still a no you did not get the outcome you saw it right so i look at that is nah that's not great so barns comes on and they talk a whole lot of bullshit about how uh this is going to end free speech okay okay all by itself this lawsuit if allowed to proceed if if even allowed to proceed yes and not only that that is also the goal of the people suing him okay if some of the legal theories being pursued are permitted or allowed then press will no longer be free and

speech will no longer be free in the united states so these cases will establish the true scope of the first amendment it'll probably be the most seminal foundational fundamental first amendment cases in the country for decades to come and by the way you're not just saying that give me those black rock and beat rolling stone they all say we're ending the first amendment using jones we don't need it anymore it's bad that they're not even denying that they're ending free speech in america and trying to use a straw man they built of me i want to get into some other big geopolitical issues why are you getting into big geopolitical issues with robert fucking barns barns has a lot to add sure he does every time we've listened to barns i've

thought man this guy has some really good takes on life yeah i think he's great i think i think barns is lovely he knows the nitty gritty the details what's going on over there in cashmere of course you call up barns ask him where cartoom is and he'll tell you absolutely so that block rock and beats takes us out to break yes and i caught a little something in one of alex's commercials that i thought was interesting thomas jefferson oh no over 240 years ago that when our republic was in trouble in the future it'd be the farmers that were close to the ground close to reality to actually work for a living that would end up saving the nation and today the communist chinese have banned all u.s farming goods a week ago well that makes sense um i think i don't know

that to be a thomas jefferson quote i can't find it in anything i think he's referencing just the charlton heston speech that we talked about in a recent episode i think you're right i think he's convinced himself entirely that that's a real thomas jefferson quote he's just quoting charlton nested uh that's not good god i've never seen anybody bungle a supposed hero this bad yeah it's comical this is tremendous so they come back and uh we end we finish up barns his appearance because most of it is just deflection nonsense yeah of course um you know after all that barns gives a little bit of a plug uh for something that i've been a little bit aware of uh for a bit now because of listening to these episodes yeah but it's something that he's becoming more public about

and it's actually something that i think deserves a little new product luke warm force oh no if only we salute you and i think people should become members uh at your amazing organization again tell people about the new organization yeah it's free america law center anyone can find it at www.freeamericalawcenter.com free americalawcenter.com for 17 and 76 cents a month so they can become a member they just want to donate they can do that too but and what we give them is first of all they are going to be supporting the most important litigation in the country this doesn't go to legal fees this goes to court costs uh witness fees service fees all of those other incidental costs that right now we're uh paying out of our own pocket depositions exactly i already have the

lawyers lined up lawyers to bring great cases to equalize the equation because the left has effectively monopolized public interest law in this country so the left has taken over the aclu entirely to where they're not defending anybody on the right anymore the southern poverty law centers have been a political hack organization for forever we need to counterpart to the southern poverty law center an antidote to the liberal bias of the aclu oh boy so jordan yeah robert barnes is entering what i would describe as the dangerous part of his path as a scam artist yeah it's all good and well to manipulate alex and feast on his court expenses it's almost amusing to watch how he's completely insinuated himself into the actual programming at info wars to the point where alex

now refers to him as expert in things like international relations very funny it's understandable to see him popping up on other scam slash reactionary outlets like the rubin report and doing interviews with staphon malinu it this is all predictable territory and where a guy like robert barnes can shine however now he's embarking on a project that no matter how it shakes out is a really bad sign robert barnes has launched the free america law center which he views as the antidote to the liberal stranglehold over the world of law the splc and aclu are just shills for the democrat party so the right wing needs is their own version of these organizations in order to even the playing field the f a l c yep god it would be so much better if he found free america

international law or something like that and he just owned himself so stupidly that'd be great that would be hilarious so in his justifying the need for this organization he claims that the aclu only does cases for liberals nowadays which is patently false no shit the aclu is a non-political entity that does so much goddamn work for people's rights it would take what's left of barnes' breath away if he actually gave them a fair look here are some of the cases the aclu is involved in right now james erin mckinney was sentenced to death for a murder but at his trial the judge didn't take into consideration evidence related to his post traumatic stress disorder which could have been seen as a mitigating circumstance in terms of applying capital punishment that case

has nothing to do with liberals or conservatives but the rights of a human being sounds like the left-wing commie nonsense to me dan probably also they're defending the kid who was involved in the dc sniper attacks based on the reasoning that he was sentenced to life without parole as a juvenile which is now prohibited does he deserve a new sentencing should the ruling be retroactive to minors who were sentenced to life without parole prior to the montgomery versus louisiana supreme court decision making that an inappropriate sense this has nothing to do with politics and the aclu was on the front lines of stuff like that compassion is left-wing now i think i guess it's but that's not even compassion no i mean kind of you can still hate this dude for pulling off a

fucking sniper attack that's true and still recognize that maybe his sentencing is invalid now because of a new supreme court decision right right right these are just a couple of cases they're currently involved in that involve possibly unpopular stances being taken to defend individual rights and there are plenty more examples of apolitical shit in the work they do the aclu is the american civil liberties union and the issue here is that people like alex and barnes have a very specific definition of what civil liberties means the aclu believes the definition includes taking on cases where refugee rights are being trampled on where lgbtq folks rights are being violated where women's rights are violated where voting rights are being eroded never all of these are

areas where alex and his ilk are actively interested in those rights being curtailed so of course they think that an organization that specifically exists to defend those rights is a secret globalist outfit trying to crush conservatives if their definition of conservatives is not into respecting the rights of non-straight white male naturally born citizens then i guess the aclu is the enemy of uh conservatives yeah it is uh so it's uh the most transparent thing to see and it makes total sense why the narratives work out this way this organization works to counter the bad things i want to see in the world therefore i need to smear them as a way of invalidating their work and anything they might do it's almost reflexive yeah and that's not to say that the aclu doesn't deserve some

criticism in some places it's just not the valid uh the type or the type that people like barnes and alex apply to it is completely uh the wrong criticism yeah absolutely it's invalid criticism i it's always a i can't imagine people you can be mad at the aclu i've been mad at the aclu but generally speaking if you think the acl is a bad organization chances are you're a bad person and same with the splc there's a lot of very valid criticisms that you can make of a lot of especially internal stuff yeah you know just earlier this year there's some real bad stuff came out about internal working conditions and employee harassment things like the allegations of that sort i think it's very valid to be critical of those organizations just not in the blanket they're run by liberals

to crush us whites right kind of like exactly that's that's the mentality that's a problem yeah the those two organizations i've always thought that uh like you know there are those criticism the working conditions are terrible and all that stuff but the main goals of the aclu and the splc have always been like you remember all that stuff in the constitution uh we'd like that to apply to everybody we want we want the goal we want what america's original goals are but just for like all people and of course white people of course white people hate that or certain white people hate that or alex so my big issue here is with barns plan to set up his own counter aclu or splc based on a completely inaccurate portrait of what either of those groups are or do fascist asshole law center

so one of the big problems with barns plan is that groups like what he's describing already exist throughout the aclu as an example there's still so many non-political rights focused advocacy groups in the united states let me for fuck's sake in 1998 conservatives started their own uh american civil rights union specifically as a response to the aclu this is old territory it's been done before and for these reasons you really have to ask yourself why is barns doing this uh this already exists oh i know i know hold your i know i have my hands up hold your thoughts okay one possibility and i think it's maybe one of the more likely possibilities is that this is a scam yeah we've discussed many times that the trend on the right wing in the scam community is tended towards lawsuit

scams as their ability to really make much headway on social media spaces is diminished and along with that their ability to pull off compelling and profitable publicity stunts is waned it could make complete sense that barns knows that the future of right wing scams is likely going to be a series impotent threats to file lawsuits which are then used to raise money for the person issuing the threat we saw that kind of shit from laura loomer not too long ago and we've seen it from alex forever like how long has he been saying he's going to sue the associated press like we talked about at the beginning of this episode yep he's always just about to file those lawsuits oh we're ready and until he does he has the ability to tease his audience you all hate the mainstream media and

i'm just the guy to fight them for you so give me money i promise the lawsuit is coming any day now schrodinger's lawsuit if barns is smart then this freedom law center this american free america law center uh is him setting up a corporate entity so he can make these idol legal threats seem credible and then take a cut off the top which if that's it then i respect the hustle and i tip my hat to him scamming these racist idiots oh and he's it's going to be filed as a 501c3 as well however jordan there's a possibility that this is something far more nefarious i'd like to tell you a little story about a man named kirk david lions a man whose footsteps robert barns may be following in kirk lions grew up in texas and according to a bio of him from baler university

quote from a young age lions was confronted with the issue of racial equality which was realized through the forced integration of public schools baler that's a very ambiguous line it's a bad sentence that's not good if a write-up of your early years includes seeing black people in schools was difficult for kirk as a child there's a good chance that story is not going to end well yeah see they really hammed up what the like they they very much hid i think what it was they that he was actually going i think it's a diplomatic phrase it was yeah but still if you read between the lions you can tell there's trouble yeah absolutely so lions went on to law school at the university of houston then started practicing on his own then in 1985 he met louis beam the former head of the

clan and then head of the arian nations right beam was brought to lions by a mutual acquaintance and i'd set up the meeting because he was afraid he was about to get arrested and he wanted to secure council now why this mutual friend would think hey i know a guy who would be really interested in getting in on the ground floor of the louis beam legal team uh that's anyone's guess i would imagine it's probably because lions gave off that old telltale cool with nazi's vibe yeah he's more of one of those guys who preferred alabama in 59 you know what i mean like that's how baler should put it he's one of those currents not all of this is from baler yeah ironically a good amount of this information came from the southern poverty law center which is why people like barns right them

yeah so when beam was arrested in 1987 lions left his practice to represent him in a trial that's known as the fort smith sedition trial in that trial 14 white supremacist leaders were tried on accusations they'd plan to overthrow the government outside of a court of law that's a slam dunk case these dudes literally never stop talking about crushing the zionist occupied government right they are not very secretive about what they want and plan to do so what they're saying outside of the courtroom is we are planning together to overthrow the government right now when they get inside of a courtroom dad that's free speech no it seems like it's free seems like no but it seems like they were actually planning it's free speech oh okay never mind so beam was on trial

along with richard snel and david lane who are members of white supremacist groups who had already carried out murders as well as the founder of the area nations richard butler a white supremacist named glenn miller agreed to testify against the other men in exchange for a reduced sentence on a ton of other charges including making bombs yeah he served three years in prison thanks to his cooperation in 2014 glenn miller carried out two shootings at the jewish community center of greater kansas city and village shalom the second of which is a retirement home he killed three people ironically since his attack was clearly based on his anti-semitism none of the people he killed were jewish at the community center he killed a 14 year old and his grandfather who were just there

visiting at the retirement home he killed an occupational therapist all of his victims were christians anyway that's the legacy of uh one of these guys who uh great good people good peeps that guy could have been in prison for a lot longer than three years but he'd agreed to testify in the fort smith's addition trial so he got a lesser sentence unfortunately his assistance in the case was pointless all of the defendants were acquitted due to lack of evidence which is exactly the sort of outcome you'd expect in a case like that it's insanely hard to prove a conspiracy particularly one to actually overthrow the government when it's perfectly acceptable as a defense to say that your constant screaming about how the government has been taken over by malevolent demons is just

criticism of the state and it's protected free speech yeah so anyway all these dudes walked and immediately kirk lions became a big fucking deal in the world of white supremacy yeah i hate them he was the lawyer that saved all their leaders from jail time and as louis beam put it quote dealt a huge blow to the zog that's such one of those fucking things where you're like i i get it and i know i shouldn't be one making the decision but everybody knows that colin kappernick should be in the fucking nfl and it's a goddamn conspiracy to keep him out of the nfl but you go into courtroom and they're like well you can't prove that and it's like no of course you can he should be there the fact that he's not is proof that he's being black bald but they're like nope you can't prove

it so that's the uh that's the difference between what you can uh come on yeah prove and what you can prove prove yeah exactly so it's one thing for a lawyer to defend white supremacists and nazis as we've discussed many times no matter how villainous a person is it doesn't make you a villain for defending them in court it might mean you're a shithead but it doesn't prove that just the fact that lions decided to put his previous career on hold to defend louis fucking beam doesn't mean that he's a clansman or a nazi absolutely true the fact that he was an active clan man and a nazi does prove that though that does help yes there is not a dearth of evidence for this one he marched with the clan and nazis in 1989 in tennessee he was a member of

the national alliance a group run by william luther pierce the author of the turner diaries he was definitely definitely a member of these groups as proven by correspondences written by pierce identifying lions as a lawyer within their ranks yeah to give you some idea how deep in the mix lions was when he got married in 1990 the ceremony took place at the area nations compound wow his bride had two brothers one was in prison because he was a member of the order and was involved with some of their murders he's a member of the fucking order the god i hate these the other brother was second in command of the area nations right right richard butler so he was he was marrying royalty yes god i hate these richard butler the founder of the area nations and one of the men who

lions helped beat those sedition charges officiated the ceremony were they all wearing white hoods too louis beam was his best man god he was a god damn it that is deep yep in 1988 lions was invited to give a speech at the area nations world congress where he discussed ideas about setting up a foundation where he uh which could operate like the splc but protect people who were white supremacist leaders uh who were like those white supremacist leaders who he represented people who he thought were just patriots and dissidents in quotes sure this took shape in the form of the patriots defense foundation in soliciting donations for the pdf william luther pierce told his followers in a newsletter quote houston member kirke lions an attorney has organized the patriots defense

foundation as a start towards doing for our people what the jews have done to our enemies or for our enemies man that sure seems like a conspiracy to overthrow the government i'm just saying the pdf would change its name in 1991 and would henceforth be known as cause which stands for canada australia us south africa and europe reflecting the areas in the world where white people were being attacked right to them right right right they build themselves as quote america's only pro white law firm and put out ads in all of the places you would expect soldier of fortune storm front yeah all the all the normal yeah we're not we're not really a pro law kind of place we're more a pro white kind of place you know is secondary i don't really like that whole law so

you know we're gonna do whatever is contradict with our pro white shit yeah we're not into the law yeah exactly from there uh he started courting all the right wing monsters he could take on his clients from holocaust deniers to your run of the mill militia guys who might have killed someone because they didn't like them existing right kirke lions was an attendee of the rocky mountain rendezvous the meeting held by christian identity preacher pete peters which brought together all the luminaries in the world of white bigotry he was there with larry pratt head of gun owners for america and early alex jones sponsor pratt ended up having to resign for petby canons 1996 presidential campaign because it came out that he was at that meeting but the other reason he had to

step down is it was revealed that gun owners of america had given cause uh the white supremacist law organization tens of thousands of dollars then as the case was for everyone in the right wing patriot militia world the oklahoma city bombing fucked everything up it came out that kirke was close associates with andrea strassmeyer and it actually introduced him to people uh at elohim city which looked really bad when rumors started flying around that strassmeyer might have had something to do with the plan or inspiration for the bombing a lot of the militia community thought that strassmeyer was working for the government so that association was toxic there ironically it was the same white supremacist he buddied up to who were now making his life hell

as they were trying really hard to point fingers at anyone other than timothy mcvay yeah of course so andrea strassmeyer gets mixed up real deeply in this conspiracy theory of course now he's friends with that dude now he's on the man now the problem is that the sane world also uh you know they saw strassmeyer as a potentially a really dangerous extremist who played some undefined role in a deeply traumatic terrorist attack so his association with him was toxic to that world too kirke lions that had his fun with the overt white supremacy world but it looked like his good time was over not quite over man it's it's really almost like being involved with a group of fascist sociopaths you just don't know when they're gonna turn that sociopath part on you you know what i'm saying

like maybe they're bad people and you can't trust on their loyalty on account of them being awful they have an interesting thought there yeah that's just me so his path was not quite over kirke knew the block was too hot so he decided to rebrand as jennifer lopez no uh he did so by founding the southern legal rights center a direct shot fired at the southern poverty law center yeah yeah we got it dude well done the slrc was specifically created to defend southern heritage meaning neo oh boy oh man that's a he preferred alabama in 59 right you know what i mean so he's defending southern heritage from what he called quote an ethnic cleansing of dixie this was proto demographic replacement shit it was the early versions of this he's consistently advanced a

theory that quote confederate southern americans are a distinct race and thus deserve a disturb a distinction as a protected class under the civil rights act whenever this theory has been brought out in court it is not gone well but it appears it did way better on these soliciting donations from racist circuit i couldn't imagine that it's almost like they can't wait to give their money away to a failing idiot so here's the point the right wing particularly the white identity faction of the right wing has a pretty deep tradition of presenting their arguments duplicitously attempting to masquerade violent bigotry bigotry is a civil right and plotting terrorist acts as the against the government they feel as zionist occupied as free speech

this is a scam that's been done before i mean it you know it may be that robert barnes isn't trying to get into the sassel but i don't believe that no of course not he's using very similar strategies to kirk lyons he's using the same language about the splc only helping his enemies and he's got his own fort smith sedition trial here in the form of alex's sandy hook case this looks like history repeating itself one of the main reasons i feel that way is because there's already plenty of groups that do exactly what barnes is pretending doesn't exist there's already the american civil rights union which is very active and has filed tons of briefs defending trump's muslim ban supporting voter id laws and trying to help with republican redistricting

and jerrymandering there's also the southeastern legal uh foundation which just serves the purpose of a legal center for conservative causes if you want to go a little bit more libertarian with things you could go with the pacific legal foundation which has been operating since 1973 and whose priorities literally completely overlap with what alex pretends to care about private property free speech free association due process all that shit right right if you want one that's religious in nature and pretty cool with you being anti-lgbtq you could mess around with the alliance defending freedom or if you want one that's super christian and kind of unclear about whether that if they have a problem with you being anti-lgbtq you could consult these american

center for law and justice for fuck's sake there's already an organization called the american freedom law center that is specifically about protecting vague ideas about judo christian heritage there are so many of these fucking groups already and many of them are very prominent and they all address the exact issues that robert barnes is pretending no one addresses thus his need for the america the free america law center his reason for starting the group is bullshit and thus i have to suspect there are other reasons oh yeah it could just be a scam you know and he's trying to flee some racist idiots but my gut says that you wouldn't take to uh the take this all the way to the starting a foundation level if that was your goal just fleecing people this feels ideological when you

look at robert barnes and you see his past actions his past client lists particularly of light and the way he carries himself nothing seems right his past clients include uh charles johnson a holocaust denier who's kicked off twitter for quote soliciting support to take out duray mckesson who as you know is a civil rights leader an activist that case was thrown out of court but not before barnes had a chance to frame the whole thing as censorship and anti-social media you know all that all those good narratives and you got a lot of traction out of it when a fine upstanding white man with a long history of anti everything but white people threatens to kill a man and makes a detailed plan about it you guys are all up in arms uh free speech so that did real well in

the rey wing media even though it got thrown out of court and people think it's a joke of course then he represented casandra fairbanks when she sued a reporter at fusion for saying that her making the okay hand signal along with mike syrnovich in a picture taken at the white house was a white power sign that case also got thrown out but not before barnes had a chance to frame it as a critical first amendment and anti media narrative and again he did really well in the right wing circuit with that his latest hustle outside alex is representing the covington kids and by representing them i mean he's going around threatening to sue everyone in the media plus elizabeth warren and apparently elon ohmar because they spoke ill of these fantastic white boys

in a particularly dramatic move back in january he gave the people who spoke ill of the kids 48 hours to retract their slanderous words or face the wrath of his lawsuits which as we've seen seemed to get thrown out of court a lot after he'd made his very serious and very real threat he was the target of another very serious and totally real threat when someone sent him a bomb threat to be clear i don't think that anyone should ever even jokingly threaten someone so i do still think that the person who sent this message is a piece of shit and probably should have some consequences but it's hilarious that barnes decided to take it seriously and take to the right wing media to proclaim his victimhood about this yeah he made a mistake by sending a screenshot

of this email that he received to media outlets oh no like the epoch times oh no uh from that screenshot we can tell a few things one is that barnes uses gmail which is weird two this threat came in from a form submission on his website barnes law which he runs through square space which is a little sad for someone in barnes's position i use square space for fuck's sake he's supposed to be a big-time high-end lawyer and he's got a goddamn 20 a month website going the fuck out of here barns the reason i bring those two things up is that square space is a huge company and this isn't the first time someone has realized they can send messages with fake email addresses filled in and send threatening things to people that doesn't make them anonymous in order

to relay the message to barnes's email i find it incredibly unlikely that a footprint wouldn't be left behind and that person's ip address wasn't logged by the server that sent the the message through guess what dan dan guess what it's coming from inside the house oh no i i don't think that it necessarily was i think that this is just selective medium manipulation could be the epoch times article says quote he's received thousands of messages since picking up the case and he hasn't been able to sift through all of them i find that weird because the subject line of that threat email is quote you're a racist piece of shit and doesn't say anything uh threatening at all it like the headline of the uh the email isn't uh that all threatening it's just insulting

free speech as barns might say i know they're doing it to him he received that message at 10 45 am on january 23rd and the epoch times article was published on january 24th i find it incredibly hard to believe that he has thousands of messages he can't get through all of them but somehow he saw this one and created media blitz out of it in under 24 hours it's even harder to believe when you realize that the epoch times was late to the game on this story the gateway pundit had an article up before 5 p.m on the 23rd hours after he received this email and you know who wrote that broken breaking exclusive story for the gateway pundit why it's kassandra fairbanks barns is former client and one in one of her legal publicity stunts so weird oh my god i hate

these people so much very suspicious i hate them so much and now here with alex he has the barns is the perfect opportunity to parlay this case into pretty much a limitless self promotion oh yeah he's representing a guy with a media empire that's not doing great financially he needs a lawyer you need publicity it's perfect it works out perfectly but publicity wasn't about his own practice or even getting his own show and usurping alex as we've joked about i suspect that it was about this all along and it looks like now the transition is beginning barns is openly promoting the america free america law center on alex's show and alex has to tell his listeners to donate to this cause yeah i mean if you go to barns's website barns law his law firm in the cases section alex isn't in

there you go to the free america law center cases alex is in there he's moving this stuff over there in order to build up a more robust thing and if you look at the history of a lot of these these organizations the ones that do exist don't have scam histories to them right like these conservative or libertarian public law organizations don't have like huh we're gonna fucking just support these grifter assholes and their publicity stunts and see what we can do yeah that's not how these organizations start but something like the patriots defense fund comes out of that mentality yeah so i'm worried i'm worried i'm not saying i need to be clear about this i'm not saying that what barns is doing is exactly the same as what kirk liens did right in as much as like you know kirk

liens was straight up hanging out with and defending real neo nazis and white supremacists yeah but i mean at this point what else can we call alex i don't i i wouldn't i still think there's a different but definitely a white supremacist there's a difference between him and fucking richard butler there is an absolute he's on the radio that's one i think i think that you could you could make an argument that some of the form and function of their uh the rhetoric is maybe similar there's overlaps but in terms of what they're doing you can't even come close to comparing them right one guy started the area nations and one guy screams bunch of incredibly bigoted shit on a radio show yeah but you know he funneled some people into

the area nation so i guess he didn't start it i guess he didn't start it i mean yeah the other guy goes down in history as a fucking what a legend well i mean if you want to put it that way a fucking nightmare boogeyman i was a bit concerned about this free america law center because i think that it could bode very terribly it could turn into a form where barns is able to provide legal cover for a lot of these these shithead propagandist racial agitators anti-lgbtq activists some of the more fringe dangerous people within the right wing media and so i wanted to get more into it but alex doesn't talk about it all that much except for this plug i haven't really heard them bring it up all too much in his other appearances

although i did know that barns was starting it yeah or he'd made plans to start it and so i was like well all right i gotta go check out other things barns has done and so i decided to listen to his interview with staphon malinu oh god you don't have any clips of malinu talking do you got a bunch i fucking hate him well sorry i hate him so much sorry so today uh the rest of this episode we're going to be going over robert barns appearing on staphon malinu's show because they talk a bit more about what barns wants to do yeah with the free america law center and i figure like okay if i have my theories and my ideas about what his motivations are i need to hear him talk more about this and this is the forum in which he did have an hour to talk about this here's my

here's my pre guess pre guess all right when you file one of those bullshit lawsuits like with kassandra fairbanks or any of that stuff you gotta put up the money right up top and then you gotta ask for donations from people what if you got donations from people coming and going you have a law center where they donate to so you don't have to even put up any of your own money to file these fake bullshit lawsuits people are already donating to you then whenever you file them you get to campaign for donations off of that shit you have just got a giant funnel of money all for you without ever having to spend any of your own i just think there's a large funnel of money that uh well wherever it's coming from or where it's going yeah i don't i don't believe that

1776 subscriptions are going to pay for like high-end lawsuits yeah like i just don't think the subscriber base is nearly what he's like pretending it is you would still need high-end benefactors right like that would be something that you would be able to mask with one of these um you know non-for-profit uh 501c3 type organizations so stavon gets into this interview and he starts by sort of describing what he sees as barnes' plan as the two of them have clearly communicated prior to this where right barnes has explained what he's up to i'm evil i'm evil as well good text message hi everybody stavon malin you from free domain here with robert barnes k super hero extraordinaire of the legal system who has put together a website and an approach bananas that

i think it's fair to say is designed to help with some of the challenges of you know if you're not on the left or if you criticize the left and you've been in the public eye for more than eight to 12 minutes at a time then the tsunami of lies and falsehoods and slander and libel just comes pouring at you like some hell sent tsunami oh sorry and then you say oh well i'm sure this can be easily corrected given that lying about people and harming their reputation seems to be not good in the legal system and then you run you know straight into these problems of having to prove actual malice and all these other kinds of things especially if you're a public figure of course so the reposs in america i think tips a little bit more towards the first amendment rather than

reputational protection which you should be for i think taking an approach that is very interesting so i wonder if you could get us up to speed on your lawsuits and the approach that you're taking absolutely so staphon's way seems to be saying that you know i'm against the first amendment when it comes to reputational protection isn't he against the first amendment isn't that what he just said that's tough to square with uh that's bananas yeah but i mean it's in line with like the stuff that trump was saying about like opening up libel laws right when he was on the campaign trail right but so it kind of you know there is there is some like thematic similarity between that but yeah i mean like what do you what what he's advocating for is ludicrous because like if

someone does lie about you you can still demand a retraction from them even if there's no actual malice yeah like you can still do that only is about suing them yeah and if you sue them you definitely should have to prove that uh there was uh an intent behind their their lie about you so i don't i i'm worried you would also have to prove that it was a lie that's true too you know there's the there's a larger issue with a lot of those lawsuits is uh they're saying that they're lying yeah i mean truth though is yeah later later staphon is complaining about like uh you know because of these uh these me like these uh all these big tech companies you know the uh there's no good things about certain people out there like what if there isn't anything good to say

what if you're just an unmitigated piece of shit staphon you are a giant pile of garbage and nothing you've done will ever be of value to the rest of humanity all i see is negative things tweeted at me and like that's clearly because of tech censorship sure as opposed to there's just a lot of people who think bad things because there's no possible way that everybody couldn't agree that i'm the greatest i don't understand why people would say any mean things to me at all i think that that's a function of the narcissism that comes along with this world too like just imagining that there's no way i could be wrong there's no way that anyone could dislike me so uh you know we have we have this setup that uh the free speech is a problem because of

the need to protect my reputation or something which uh seems silly but barns gets into uh answering that question so the goal was we needed a legal institution that was sort of the counterpart to the southern poverty law center sort of the antidote to the southern poverty law center sort of the equivalent of the aclu but the equivalent of it for all people not just people on the left not just causes on the left not just cause celebs on the left which unfortunately is what the aclu has mostly done these days we needed something like that for people on the political right for libertarians for independent people for people who aren't part of the cultural cache of the left that already exists as we've gone over a hundred times the framing of this the presentation of

why you need to do this is a lie if you want to make the argument that like these things do exist but they're ineffective then you would be coming from a more honest perspective right if you wanted to say um all right i'm robert barns i believe in these libertarian uh conservative ideas therefore i'm going to join up with this other existing public law organization that already serves those interests work with like to make that better so it can uh be the antidote to the sblc and aclu like there are existing frameworks that are run by like very credible people you know like people who have high stature yeah in in in society right um this reminds me so much of the like uh why aren't there any muslim leaders decrying uh hardcore muslim terrorism huh we never hear from

the leaders of uh of islam that radical islamic terror is awful and then is like well that's because you didn't google it for two seconds you don't want to hear that you don't want to know that there are this already exactly i think that that's possible but i honestly think that it's more that what he wants to do is different yeah and he doesn't really want to bring into the conversation that a real sane um and even slightly insane version of what he talks about already exists and has for decades yeah like he doesn't want to talk about that because he needs to present this is a new and novel idea he needs to present the idea that the left has been dominating and the only people who are in that space of like public law right because if he doesn't then what

he's doing just seems like it seems suspicious right it seems suspicious if you know that all these things already exist right and he doesn't want to answer the question of like why are you doing this that's absolutely true because yeah if you're trying to create an antidote on the right to the aclu and you're really going for it you are going to wind up creating the aclu you know you're just going to do the same thing that they do it's just because that's how that that's how that works yeah it's fascinating there are some like a conservative leaning public civil rights and liberty based organizations that do site with the aclu fairly uh not i don't know regularly i couldn't say that but i would imagine more regularly than you imagine yeah because if you're caring about

what if you're caring about reality and you give a shit about yeah absolutely you actually have principles then you wind up realizing oh shit yeah i care more about doing things the right way or the the legal way than i do about lying about it it's very imaginable that a conservative and a liberal could come together on the discussion about whether or not this the kid in the dc sniper case deserves a new trial based on the supreme court decision absolutely conservative could agree or disagree with that proposition liberal could agree or disagree with that proposition but there's no reason why a group uh interested in individual rights no matter the political alignment couldn't agree on that case absolutely the it's just shady shit that bonds is up to

yeah dean and that's that's because uh i would hazard a guess that if you are going to actually give a shit and you're going to litigate these cases and you want them to go to if you want to go to trial then that means in order to win your case you have to accept a shared reality both sides agree on what the facts are and so then you find out so much of the ideology and all that shit it doesn't apply because it's actually not real you know like so many of these grifter cases they they're fundamentally imaginary right they're using public opinion exactly it's the court of public opinion versus the court of court exactly and that's all this game is yeah and uh that that's sort of a free america law center would be incredibly effective

in terms of the uh the court of public opinion 100 it would be something that could be used as uh like just a intense media arm right of these uh these i don't know i don't know what to call them the dabblers and extremism right right right and the the centers that do side with the aclu of course they're not going to draw in those same level of donations because sometimes they do things that the propaganda says are wrong maybe maybe not i'm not sure how it will go i'm not sure if barns's ventures would be more successful or not i think this is doomed yeah frankly but uh but it also scares me because on the off chance that it's not doomed it could be a very very dangerous organization yeah so in this next clip barns talks about how the left you know they virtue signal

sure we do um and i i take some issue with this the second thing the left does well is because virtue signaling matters so much to donors and contributors on the left they're willing to fund crowdfund liberal causes in ways that generally conservatives just have most conservatives want some value for what they give their money for well that makes it difficult to be able to crowdfund for lawsuits where the only value is the knowing the lawsuit's going to move forward so the goal was to create a legal organization that serves the needs and meets the interests of people all across the political spectrum to fight the three d's the platforming defamation deep state whistleblowing to equalize and democratize access for all of those people

so we created free america law center which people can look up find out more online about at free americalawcenter.com and the goal was to not make it as donor driven or as contributor driven but to make it membership driven so to make it subscription driven so people sign up for a monthly subscription at a very affordable accessible rate 17 dollars and 76 cents a month to recognize our great american patriotic history you're so it's a help create an organization that i feel like that price is virtue signaling absolutely absolutely absolutely that price is not that price is not based on the free market dan it certainly seems to be it's there to send a signal to others yeah of something that you find value all these lefties do is they virtue signal with their

their crowdfunding and me i am a patriot based on the price that i'm putting on that yikes i'm i i love the inverted reality of people thinking that all the causes that we donate to have no value and yet they would donate to fucking barns because they want to get something for their money well you'll see insane you'll see a little bit later the pitch uh that he has actually i'll go ahead and skip to that clip now because you think that you're not going to get anything for that 1776 i believe i will and you're fucking wrong okay we're providing actual direct benefits to people so people that are monthly subscribers get to vote on what kind of cases get pursued they also get weekly podcasts where only members get to ask questions of lawyers and legal experts to answer

those in q&a podcasts they get weekly books that are going to be a bill of right bookly series they'll be issued at least monthly to people that are self educated or self armored in the law can better protect their own rights and defend their rights so we're giving them tangible value that's personal to them while at the same time trying to create a law center that can equalize and democratize access to the law against big media and big tech how fucking weird is it the idea that barns is like if you donate you can vote on what cases all that's bananas that doesn't seem like it's principle driven that is ridiculous that is absolutely ridiculous weird that is you can't even parody that good on him for doing a podcast though and having ebooks yeah whatever

that's at least like that's something yeah i suppose yeah people are interested in hearing his uh pressured voice then uh enjoy that podcast yeah we need voting on cases is troubling oh no that's i can't imagine that gamifies the entire thing absolutely and it really doesn't seem like a good way to run a law center did he not just do none of these people learn the lesson of vody mcvote face i haven't learned that lesson vody mcvote whenever you are like i am going to open this up to the internet uh to make a good decision oh and not turn it into a fucking joke people will make it a joke exactly yeah yeah there is that tendency but you know you got to do something and maybe this is a bad idea but you have to do something because there's a conspiracy

going on that robber barns is fighting against and what's happening is big tech and big media are colluding in ways to suppress and censor dissident voices using their superior law fair and their superior legal uh acumen and talent on their side of the aisle because of their ceaseless bench and endless retainers this is exactly what kirk liens told the arian nations world congress in 1988 they're against like uh they're against us in our dissident voices the patriots it's exactly the same rhetoric that was being used as a justification for starting the patriots defense foundation similarly um what you have in uh the uh you know louis i'm sorry william luther pierce's letter about uh kirk liens the we need he's going to help us create something to help us in the same way

the the uh the jews have done for our enemies sure you know we have that same thing we need something that will do for us what uh the the left has done for uh you know the people were against yeah and that like i get that he's not saying the same things but the structure is the same the argument is the same and a lot of the people that seem to be adjacent to the worlds that barns is swimming in right are fucked up stafan malinu went to poland to became a white nationalist yeah he's sitting here talking to him i i can't take the context out of the i can't hear this without thinking of kirk liens because right the parallels are too strong right um i mean i would you know to get back to our earlier conversation though lions was dealing with the founder of the arian

nation and barns is dealing with kassandra fairbanks and alex jones you know what i'm saying no totally but i think it might be more profitable it's absolutely more i think it might be a smarter thing to do oh of course and not least of which it gives you way less attention but give it give it more time and who knows what it could be i don't know so uh in this next clip uh he barns decries the downfall of the left as being i don't know noble or heroic or something the media just seems out of control in their reputational attack and you know the left used to be like well you know the david versus goliath stuff will always see with a side with david because goliath has so much power but now you see the left really siding with the giant corporations intact with the giant

corporations in media against the little guys who don't seem to have any particular capacity to push back against these lies absolutely i see it as sort of a parallel pattern now what's happening in defamation and the platforming is also happening with antifa which is sort of a violent violent mechanism of trying to enforce orthodoxy and speech limit what people can say limit scare people into self-censorship i mean the most effective form of censorship is self-censorship and so if you can get people afraid of me and if i say that i might get sued i might lose my job i might i mean there's a guy representing the pre-america law center is going to support that it was just a working as a at a gas station and he got fired just because he asserted political

beliefs related to trump because some other customer created a storm about it huh i don't know who the person barns is talking about because the current cases section in the free america law center website doesn't include them the only case is listed there the covington kids a former fbi agent he's uh representing and alex jones like i said alex is not listed on the current roster of cases on barns's website which i think it means he's shifting it over but we'll see i'm guessing that barns uh the client that he's discussing here is the guy who worked at a gas station in naperville just outside of chicago who was not just fired for supporting trump this guy was caught on video questioning the citizenship status of a customer and then telling her that

people needed to quote go back to their country he tells the woman quote you're in the wrong country and as she's leaving threatens her quote ice will come which is a real cool indication that normal folks are keenly aware that ice is basically a racial stormtrooper force yep this of course was on the heels right after uh trump's hole send her back thing so i guess you could kind of argue that this is showing support for trump uh i think it's very telling that he's reframing that as expressing a pro trump position totally because that's how these things go yeah the real incident is a blatantly racist and offensive interaction that's beyond the pale regardless of a person's political beliefs i've managed retail outlets and if someone was acting even close to the way

that guy did towards a customer they'd be fucking gone yep even if it wasn't about race even if it wasn't about her citizenship status you don't get into fights with customers pure and simple if you're a clerk at a gas station i regret to say this and i speak as someone who worked at multiple gas stations in my life you are insanely replaceable and no business should feel any need to keep guy who likes to argue with customers on the payroll that's bad business i'm not sure if this is the case that barnes is talking about but i would kind of bet that it is based on the details that he provides and because video the exchange between the clerk and customer went around on social media so it plays into that part of barnes's uh platform this is not a case of someone who's

fired for supporting trump but that's how ray uh that but that that's how racism and being a shitty employee are whitewashed if this really is the case that barnes is talking about it it clearly shows what his intentions and strategies are you take people like this who do blatantly intimidating racist things and then you reframe it repackage it is some sort of a violation of the offender's rights right and by virtue of that you hope to gum up the process or intimidate people out of you know dealing with these sort of outbursts rationally yeah do you like i the key the person has to have no idea that barnes is just exploiting them for money right like the the person who got fired from the gas station they probably get a cut do you think so i don't know i don't know how

this works i think i think i'm imagining that how that works is barnes goes to them and says it convinces them that they have a case and that if they stick with barns they're going to wind up winning a lot of money or whatever i wouldn't be too surprised if that guy's an info wars listeners heard barns on it a bunch and reached out to him oh that's a good point i have no idea but i wouldn't be surprised by that right it would seem strange for barns to reach out to him but again i wouldn't i wouldn't put that past it i don't i don't know how any of this stuff works i don't know what anybody's expectation is outside of we create an or at least we try to work on creating an atmosphere where our bigotry is legally defensible or it's

legally defendable to the point where people will resist pushing back on it yeah they want to create a fear of stepping up to and treating publicly abusive racist outbursts right as uh actually protected speech well they want to become that yeah yeah yeah absolutely so i just i just don't understand how the guy at the seven eleven doesn't realize that barns is exploiting him completely but like he's gonna go home at the end at the end of all of this he's gonna go home with nothing and having achieved nothing but he might have more than he would otherwise he lost his job what the fuck else why not why not throw in see if we can make a couple bucks off the fair the gas station chain fair you know you threaten them enough you you have like intimidating enough

lawyer you might be able to make a settlement out of it and it's not like he's getting nothing you know barns will get a bit of it but he'll get something i don't know we'll see i don't know i used to work at gas stations i was pretty dumb i might have gone along with something like this yeah but then again i wouldn't have done that to a customer at the beginning right right right i don't know anyway because of all this because of the nature of what this organization really is geared towards stefan knows that like this is good this is something i'm into well i uh i obviously have somewhat of a personal motive in in supporting somebody or a group who's out there trying to balance things like the splc which to me you know has become a completely

ideologically driven institution that lists people like you know craig or you and and me and and other people who just make an arguments but doesn't list antifa i mean this is just crazy as standards and i think there is this general sense you know the rule right any organization that's not specifically anti-left gets progressively more left over time as the activists get into enact their collectivist anti-free market anti-freedom agenda and so i really like the idea you know the the splc to me is beyond reforming but having a counterweight to it i think is really important because it really is such a one-side battle at the moment and no doubt about it i mean there are tons of counterweights already if you think that they're not doing a good enough job

that's the conversation you need to have as opposed to these things don't exist yeah like this is really an important distinction to make because the way they frame this is all like there is nothing it's a wide open wilderness on the on the right side of public law we need it because these these liberals have dominated this this space and they they've uh you know their superior lawcraft and lawfare and that's just not the case that is absolutely not the case it's dishonest framing and when you frame something dishonestly it means that you're up to something yeah generally uh i does he god i've asked this question i don't know how many times stefan malinu does he actually believe his own bullshit because what he just said was so

nonsensically uh just imaginary everything he's talking about is fictitious except for his need for something like barn's organization well yeah there's that yeah that's absolutely fair it's just like that entire sentiment was gaslighting well it's it's the same thing with like what we were talking about earlier like the aclu it uh defends rights that these people don't believe should be defended yeah so therefore it's a terrible organization taken over by globalist leftists and a collectivist agenda and far left activists blah blah blah but do but do and the same thing with splc you have like they watch out and like they cover extremists on the right right like there are uh they're one of the forces that uh that actually takes the time

and research is a lot of these people who are really dangerous yeah and people like stefan malinu don't get a pass from them right he went to poland and declared himself a white nationalist yes like he is on the radar that's what i'm saying and that's one of the most generous ways i can describe stefan malinu is saying he went to poland and became a fucking white nationalist he's way worse than that oh infinitely so the the the splc exists as a place that doesn't give a pass to these people who want to get a pass right don't pay attention to that shit oh fucking prager you and me we're just having idea fuck we just make arguments that's what i'm saying he has to be aware that he's so full of shit but it's all the same game that idea like

i'm just making arguments as opposed to what you're really doing i just had debates it's the same thing that's very uh similar to uh this this whole uh sort of masquerading what's really going on you know like uh saying that this gas station person is just supporting trump god it's the same whitewashing it's the same it's it's a strategy that uh people like this use right and it's essential to their ability to operate because as they went around and were like hey i am going to defend this guy who said a bunch of racist shit to a customer when he was working at a gas station and he got fired because of it and i think it's great that he said things like this right and we should all be thrilled about uh minimum wage employees getting uh getting racist with employee

with uh with customers that is the sort of thing that society needs no one's giving money to that no except for the really hardcore racists right and that's not a big enough pool for you to run a fucking law center with so you need to like pretend that it's a trump issue you need to pretend that it's the persecution of the noble uh sensible trump voter because that's a much larger audience from which to fish for donations right you masquerade things no one's going to be mad about staphon just making arguments it's fucking ass you have to hide god i hate him so much you have to hide because presenting what you really do sincerely and honestly is a losing game which is a bad game which is why they lose in court exactly so in this next clip uh barn says something positive

about morris d's the founder of the southern poverty law center morris d's in the time yeah the founder of the splc morris d's i'll give him credit he was originally started off in a credit in a certain way uh he started off as a clan lawyer in the 1960s and then he feared out there was more money if he was suing the clan it wasn't driven out of ideological predilection or anything else what is that giving him credit for i don't know i'll give him some credit it's so weird like some credit goes to he did used to defend the right he did used to defend the clan well i i said that quietly uh oh no i said that loudly shit is it like like i i don't understand what's being applauded like because it could be that he was a originally a clan lawyer is that i don't

know yeah is it that d's decided to start suing the clan is that what he's applauding i'm gonna feel like it no is it the fact that his decision to be anti clan wasn't motivated by being against the clan just by it being a financial consideration none of the options seem good all of them seem to be barn saying d's sucks but to his credit he wasn't really against the clan yeah he was just following the money hey yeah basically what he what he said is like i think what he thought he was saying was that previously he was non ideological or or not like he didn't pick sides i guess i don't know i guess that's what he thought he thought he was saying that he was he didn't pick sides i guess may that might be the most generous reading yeah yeah yeah so what he said was he's he's a clan

morris d's is called a clan lawyer because in 1962 he represented a clansman named claud henley who was on trial for attacking the freedom riders he was 26 years old at the time in less than two years out of law school and has been very publicly clear that he regrets taking that case his subsequent legal history does seem to indicate that sometime after the trial he had a bit of a change of heart as reflected by hit the cases that he took on and the fact that he supported george wallace's campaign in 1958 but by 1972 he was backing george mcgovern d's is a gigantic target for the right wing because he's completely destroyed a lot of white supremacist groups he's won large settlements against the white area in resistance the united clans of america

and the area nations people on the really fucked up parts of the right wing know they can't complain about him on the merits which is to say they can't just come out and say that they hate that he financially crippled white supremacist groups so they have to take the alternate approach you try to taint his motives you try to say like well he was originally a clan lawyer all that stuff etc so it's all an attempt to attack without revealing why you're mad at him right but i think uh you know i think his political work is very important it should be pointed out that d's himself might not have been all that great a guy and he was fired by the splc earlier this year and many have suggested that it stemmed from internal harassment complaints yeah you know how i

know about that it certainly isn't from barns or alex or any of these right wing truth tellers it's from the fucking new york times the bastion of liberal media the world where you dare not criticize the darlings of the left a world where the splc runs the show they extensively covered the firing and all the employee complaints meanwhile all i hear from these right wing dicks is the same his civil rights work is invalid claptrap it's all bullshit like there are valid complaints to be made about morris d's as a human and even the like we talked about earlier the institution of the splc but the complaints that i hear out of these people is never that right but at the same time they can't talk about the legitimate complaints because out of one side

they'd be like see look at how bad this guy is and the other side of them out there like employers should be able to do whatever they want to their employees and so on and so forth that is a functional problem yeah of their uh other positions so in this next clip barns i think really fucks up ninety percent of the people they list on their so-called hate watch are not haters they're just different dissident views they're often within the political mainstream on the political right none of them are racist the it's extraordinary the number of people they were putting on there in the list they were putting on there so i think that barns might have said the quiet part the loudest wow he claims wow 90 of the people listed on the splc's hate watch are just

quote different dissident voices that are often within the political mainstream on the political right uh-huh here are some of the most recent headlines on hate watch there's an article about the power struggle that's going on in the leadership of the anti-government militia the three percenters there's an article about beth van doyen a woman running for congress who's really into calling groups of muslims quote hotbeds of sharia there's a couple articles about matthew q gerbert uh the state department official who was outed as an active member of white nationalist groups there's an article about how many of the accelerationist elements in the white supremacist communities were responding to the el paso shooting by emphasizing the need to kill important people

instead of random folks at walmart there's an article about how a member of an arkansas white nationalist group who was arrested for beating up a gay man because he was gay also had previous hate crime convictions in the past legitimately if you look at these articles and you think ah that's basically mainstream right-wing dissident voices you're identifying the same problem i am but you don't think it's a problem right that's not good well you didn't talk about all of their organizations dan you only brought up a few examples see 90 of them are all of those groups are like uh americans for having a good time at places and they're in the political mainstream right sure that's what it is they're in the political mainstream right sure all they want

to do is kick them out of the country they don't want to hurt anybody they're in the political mainstream right dan they're not a hate group i guess barns could actually maybe be talking about their uh extremist files that section of the site but uh he's just calling it hate watch because that's the catchy name that people remember yeah he's just an ass but that would be even worse for him man the people listed in the extremist files are really bad people yeah we could go through that list one by one and discuss how a lot of these people are either literal murderers who killed people for white supremacist causes or how a lot of them are outright nazis but instead what i would like to do is i'd like to ask who barns thinks exactly are these 90 percent of people who are in

the political mainstream on the right that's the sort of thing that's really fun to say and it plays really well with the right wing persecution complex but if he actually means what he's saying then he's tacitly saying that the mainstream of the right wing has been overtaken by right white supremacists and fascists that maybe that is what he's saying after all he's talking to a guy who went to poland to become a white nationalist well i think we've all realized that overtaken is not necessarily the word bubbled to the surface is probably a better way of putting it what was always there is just now allowed to run rampant i don't know i don't know if i wholly agree with you on that but that's an argument for another day so in this next clip barns gets

into theory oh no he has a theory about the media oh no and what they do with the depictions of folks it also reminds me of what i studied when i was a scholarship student at Yale which was studying cultural phenomenon in the 60s and 70s where particular groups tended to be demonized within the popular media and back then the targets was interesting was you had both african-americans and poor whites from certain parts of the country tended to be portrayed disproportionately in dangerous and frightening ways and what the theory that i came up with that seemed to be an overlap is that the big cultural institutions tended to try to demonize those communities and constituencies that had a counter narrative to whatever the establishment narrative

of the day was and so if you came from a community that reflected that that community tended to be demonized in the popular cultural representation in the last 15 years that has shifted heavily towards white men in general but also as religious people there's a disproportionate targeting even like a show like big little lies on HBO would represent her as this bad maternal character as being a religious figure well sorry let's be specific here by religious you mean christian exactly okay i just just because you know there are other religions out there that despite having some negative beliefs in general are almost universally portrayed with rapturous positivity like like somebody's either a cult member or a groupie so let's just be real specific

so barns is trying to be coy with saying religious people yeah stefan put uh forced to stand to be clear yep and you heard barns agreed he's like oh absolutely let's stop on says let's be clear we're talking about christians he's like yes absolutely yes i didn't want to make it clear i wanted to leave a little air of vagueness that i'm talking about white christian identity here this is what i'm defending this is what i'm into alex would have been like religion good call wink stefan malin who's like i am free to be a white nationalist wherever i want yeah i don't know what i don't give a fuck no one cares i've been through the fire and everyone knows i suck yeah let's talk about fucking christian supremacy and

white dominion uh yeah i mean that that really kind of in much the same way that that clip where 90 percent of the people on hate watch is kind of oh that's revealing yeah that's fucking revealing too oh yeah the the idea that witty is pushing is this idea that like oh we got the everything is against whites and christians yeah it's like all right see i see what you're doing yeah can you imagine how it like imagine being able to tie barns down and be like okay fine pick the 90 percent oh i would love that pick the 90 percent pick out of all of those names you give me 90 percent of them and we'll see we'll fucking see who's in the political mainstream right no totally and if you but still believe they're in the political mainstream right that's

what i'm saying obvious that's what i'm saying this is fun to say and it works on stefan malin news podcast for sure but uh feet to the fire or whatever no chance no way this doesn't stand up to scrutiny it's just shit talk that appeals to the conservative victim hood narratives it's a very very marketable thing yeah it doesn't stand up in a court of law no no so we get further down this uh this slippery road that we're on where we learned that it's all about christianity and whiteness of course barn starts talking about the covington case that he is involved in and i think he says some things that aren't true it was really a sub motivation taking place in the covington case the message was what are these institutions that are successful at resisting

sort of the elite cultural liberal institutions of entertainment and education that are almost monopolized by the identitarian left well that is places like religious schools and catholic schools they're one of the last repositories of independent education which will challenge the establishment narrative in a wide range of cultural context so by trying to demonize catholic schools by trying to scare parents is saying man if your kid goes to a catholic school someday maybe the new york times will ruin your life just because he really goes to a catholic school that was really in fact there were writers for the new york times who were planning on follow-up hit pieces against catholic schools across the country wow wow writers for the new york times are planning a hit pieces

that apparently didn't come out i guess they stopped those maybe they weren't hit pieces to begin with maybe they were investigations jesus i am i'm i'm pretty baffled by i mean like the i the very idea that religious education like i don't want to demonize it i don't want to malign it but the presenting it as one of the only places where like free thinking is is allowed is strange because there's an overlay of religion on it so so what you're saying barns let me let me ask you a question uh one of the strictest and most dogmatic places that you could ever get an education is the last bastion for free thought sorry i completely forgot everything i've ever learned about catholic school apologies yeah i mean there's like not to be too blunt about this

this is extremist shit the the presentation of like religious schools are the only place that give you a counter narrative to the mainstream that is trying to i mean essentially trying to brainwash you and create a collectivist dystopia where conservatives aren't allowed to say anything like that this is extremist shit just presented in a lackadaisical kind of like matter of fact way that makes it seem like it's not as extreme as it is this is insane yeah i'm still not be i'm still not able to draw this parallel that you're talking about with lions i don't see any similarities between them whatsoever it's probably none so with this x-clip barns just lies i mean jack dorsi for twitter said twitter would be the free speech wing of the free speech party well that's the biggest

lie that anybody's told in the last 20 years because they become one of the key means of suppression and censorship for example if anybody goes to twitter and tries to look up me barns law they won't be able to find me unless they're already following it i've disappeared from the searches of twitter so they just i guess apparently they took offense to me suing them a couple of times why i didn't follow barns how long did it take you to find him he's the first name that pops up if you google robert barns or barns law ah dan but what if you forgot that you weren't connected to wi-fi then it might take a little longer it might be harder to find him that's that's possible could be tough but that is what he's saying is a lie he is very findable on twitter yeah totally

absolutely now what's interesting about that is the argument that he's making it proves the opposite because he's saying that i can't be found on twitter oh maybe they're mad at me because i sued them a few times yeah you did sue them a few times and you're easily findable that only serves to reinforce that twitter is not like vindictively attacking you in any way i could still find his twitter super easily anybody listening could find it so fucking easily it is not difficult and he's someone who if jack was a petulant person who's just uh the capriciously throwing people off who had wronged him then yeah you would be number one you sued him yeah also he could and it wouldn't be censorship sure yeah he can do that yeah that's fine i do like him being like oh that's one of

the biggest lies that has happened in the last 20 years and now i'm about to tell one bigger i got i don't think it's bigger but like i would say how i would look at jack's statement is more like i bet he met that when he said it yeah i bet that was the goal that was a goal yes it was not a i think i think that when you're starting one of these uh tech startups you probably have a really different idea of what it is and what it can be then when there's millions of users right right i think it changes the complexion a great deal and even if you set out with the best of intentions with twitter like we're gonna allow free speech all over the place right once the logistics of what free speech entails and how people are going to abuse it yeah like once that starts to become

real you can't live up to the the goals you set out for yourself at the outset yeah it's not stating an idea and then failing to live up to it for any number of circumstances does not mean you were lying about your ideal right i still think jack deserves criticism and sucks for sure but i don't think it's fair i i mean you know what maybe he was lying i don't know but i don't entirely possible but i don't think it's fair to just assume he's lying in a court you'd have to prove malice sure actual malice which is a problem and we're gonna get rid of that so we get back to like just christian paranoia here in this next clip and staphon says some stuff that's just way out of line why is there all of this deliverance your your your kind of redneck

cliches about the south because the south is pretty christian why is it that the the coastal elites that generally are leftist or or atheists or at least not christians why do they hate flyover countries so much because that's where the churches are and this this what when you sort of see this seething resentment towards christianity and of course christianity historically has stood between the leftist collectivists and their thirst for state power i mean that's straight out of the french revolution first thing they did was kill the priests kill the nuns or rape and kill the nuns and so on so there those who seek power god have a great deal of issue and and the church and the cross and christianity stands in the way of their thirst for power which is to me is and kulture

has characterized is pretty damn demonic and it's kind of hard to argue against that and so once people process just how much hostility there is not just sorts christians but to those with an anti-status mentality there's christians libertarians and so on and and me and others and once you kind of understand that there are people who are forming a human chain between the predators and the power they seek of course they're going to aim at people like us they can't take us on intellectually so all they can do is create this fire emotive negative language and hope that scares enough people away that we become irrelevant absolutely okay why are you agreeing with that barns is just doing his yes and shit barns barns stop listening barns totally stop listening 100

percent barns stop listening yeah stefan was on a bit of a rant that was stupid yeah every time somebody tells me that stefan malinu is smart i think in some ways yes in the same way that somebody who knows elvish is good at languages you know like they absolutely are you're you're you're smart but that's that's you're living in a fictitious world i stand you're in lord of the rings world you are a fucking genius stefan malinu in the real world where we exist you're an idiot you're so stupid i i stand by my earlier comments about him being really smart in as much as like he has high level of mental processing power yes i agree with you that's what i there's a he's functionally or he's technically smart but functionally an idiot yes that's kind of the way i'd

look i guess the elvish thing works but we we don't need to sit here and spend a lot of time jordan rehashing how christianity served as an excuse and a moral rationalization for colonialism in the period where countless indigenous peoples were massacred and had their lands taken from them and their resources stolen creating ripple effects that still plague much of the world to this day i don't know how staphon defines tyranny or oppression but if it doesn't include that experience he's talking about something else hmm when you look around the world and you try and figure out who some of the major not good folks are who are running governments you kind of get the sense that staphon's notion that christianity is somehow resistant to state oppression is like that's

complete bullshit nonsensical hungarian prime minister victor orban is a christian uh though he's been a little bit wishy washy about the religious stuff lately uh duterte in the philippines has identified as christian these guys complain all day about south africa but their president cirul aramafosa is a christian slobodan melosevic was a christian and that dude faced charges of crimes against humanity at the haig yeah there are plenty of world leaders who are up to no good who are christian but beating up on christianity isn't the point there are leaders of all religious persuasions who do bad things and can lead their countries down tyrannical roads it's not exclusive to any religion or sect when you completely ignore that this is an unrelated variable and continue

to lionize christianity and demean other religions based on that falsehood it really demonstrates that you're not really into the avoiding tyranny part of things it's more that you're soft pitching a social theocracy dan do you know what is real tyranny what the muslims in jerusalem in 1000 ad that was real tyranny because they wouldn't just let the british thousands of miles away have it i think they would that's tyranny i think i could hear that argument coming from so um the more christian anxiety here coming up in this next clip look at the 1930s communist model they're trying to replicate that model which is get involved like control human relations and advertising departments as part of your popular front infiltrate those institutions to help

reshape people's thought prospects and and as you look at all of that they've mostly been wildly successful the left has at taking over almost every every form of education that exists in the united states almost other than religious parochial schools taking care of almost control over almost all of tv and hollywood and major books and almost all of the news industry with the sole exception really being the church as the last repository of traditional beliefs against their status and sort of a revolutionary mindset it's a revolutionary mindset that's a dangerous mindset it's one that attacks tradition attacks ideas simply because of their associations with either the past or with religious traditions uh particularly christian religious traditions

because they see them as their biggest obstacle to thought control the the left really thinks if we could get rid of churches like the communists were able to do in the 1930s in places like Russia though they weren't able to fully succeed but partially succeed that that's the best way to be able to have complete thought control over how people think and perceive the world hey nobody trying to get rid of churches do these people now are we adding Catholicism are they adding Catholicism now yeah because they're from the same group of people who used to murder Catholics for the very act of being Catholic right yeah they're from that ideological history yeah so now they're just throwing Catholics in willy nilly because fine i don't know if it's willy nilly it's just we

need to grow sure up yeah yeah yeah it's more like we can't afford to alienate Catholics yeah yeah yeah yeah we used to have a great time alienating Catholics but now it's all white hands on deck you know what i'm saying now i still hate the pope of course well he's evil he's a globalist but he's thousands of miles away right all these Catholics down the way we're down with Catholics but the pope is still a demon god these people are so fucking stupid why is it that they get to destroy the world i don't know maybe it won't work no this is turned now like this episode and this conversation that staphon is having with robert barnes has turned towards the natural place that it was destined to go yeah and that is like okay i'm expressing that the real threats are the threats

against white identity and christianity yep those are the things that i'm going to focus on with my law center uh all i want or at least at least that's my guiding principles like i am going to be like the guy who you go to whenever you like infringe on a gay person's rights and you feel like you should have pros pro straight white male yeah first pro law second yeah that's going to that that seems to be the space he's carving out for himself yeah and you can hear it by how much this turns into a like christianity is the only thing that matters it's the last bulwark against tyranny and all right man so they get into some real stupid territory uh after this and but it's still within this this dissertation that's going on about uh how christianity is under attack and uh man this is

silly there are two areas where you have major pedophilia scandals one aspects of the catholic church grow up but the other was disproportionately hollywood but only one has been extensively investigated only one has been extensively covered only one has been extensively prosecuted in the legal arena particularly civil suits and criminal cases it's been the church has been the focus that's absurd uh there has been a great deal of focus on hollywood yeah now i would argue that one of the reasons that the hollywood stuff has been a little bit more difficult is that people who come from the same places as robert barnes may be right for similar publications have turned that into a weird satanic panic thing there's a lot of distractions with the

pizza gate stuff and all the all all of that world that is taken away from any kind of real focus on this and it creates distractions and it creates expectations that can't be lived up to yeah it creates a false version that makes it look like real investigations or cover ups yeah and that isn't the media's fault that's your side's fault yeah that's alex and his associates fault that is something that you will never be able to achieve the idea that everybody is involved in a great like a massive uh blood drinking child sacrifice party that is not something you're going to ever prove yeah um and because you can't you'll always look at it as like well they never really got to the bottom of it and you know what they do with the catholic church because they only

want to take down the church it's not about protecting kids it's about attacking christianity i find it uh very offensive uh for especially for these people to grift on the catholic church sure because there's a good grift i mean grift about the the catholic church's immeasurable number of abuses over an incomprehensible length of time yeah uh not least of which because that's not a thing that can be partisan you can't do that it well it shouldn't be you know it's like and it doesn't even and it like what are you talking about white religious people are the like you're attacking i hate i hate it doesn't make any sense from anybody nope so it's awful if you wanted to make less sense robert barnes here has a an example of something that shows

the distinction between how people react to hollywood and uh the priests in the catholic church and i would say this is one of the more ludicrous comparisons i've ever heard try to reinstate a people like uh the director of james gahn who get who got put back in even though he made comedic jokes that normally would have been totally inappropriate if you'd say been a catholic priest so the amazing dynamic of the inconsistency and hypocrisy and duplicity revealed that their true agenda was not the protection of children ah yes what if james gahn was a catholic priest and he took to twitter to make horrible jokes really ah yes really he's taken that's his that's his smoking gun right there i mean it's a little weak that is that is dumb bullshit barnes barnes

i'm taking away all the good works i have ever exhorted you for bad work barnes bad work barnes what if james gahn was a priest we he would have been treated differently if he was a fucking priest great good work barnes great also and that was a sarcastic good work barnes also i will say that like james gahn's situation is kind of analogous because no one has ever had like a priest in the catholic church scandal where they tweeted something fucked up right that's not been the case now you can't really draw parallels between them you show me that the catholic priest to treat something really fucked up and then we'll talk then we'll talk about how the reaction they're different you know what also let's show me not just the catholic

priest who fucked up and tweeted something weird but the catholic priest who fucked up and tweeted something 10 years ago that was unearthed by a right wing fucking lunatic asshole trying to take him down specifically oh yeah good god damn troll operation then blown out of proportion the whole thing the whole thing fair enough give me one catholic priest situation then we can gauge reactions and how they're different yeah exactly so barnes believes some interesting things about the first amendment um get rid of it no he seems to be for it but he has a slightly different interpretation of it than i think most people do big media and big tech platforms using that power of those platforms to target certain people really solely because of their

belief systems to suppress and censor speech thought and ideas and mostly not to prevent near you from talking as preventing the audience from hearing this that's what free speech is really all about is protecting the audience's rights and respecting the audience's rational capacity to make good decisions and good judgment their moral capacity to make good decisions and good judgments that's what the left doesn't trust it doesn't trust the ordinary person the ordinary ability of thought and conscience to process information to make good and wise decisions that's why they have to suppress and censor speech so he believes it appears that the first amendment titles you to an audience yes which is absurd no it does no that's crazy it's the rights

you're infringing on the rights of the audience right which i am in of course entitled to right but like if you use the alex jones example the audience isn't affected alex you can still find wherever you want so even under his broad definition of the first amendment right alex is not being oppressed at all he has his website you can still find his shit wherever you want it's almost like barns doesn't respect the audience to go out and find it on their own wow interesting it's almost like barns is the one who disrespects his audience by saying that they're absolutely incapable of googling alex jones and info wars dot com right and the other problem that i have is this idea of like you know they don't trust the audience and to make a decision hear these

things and make a decision like you know the classic example of like the limitation of free speeches you can't yell fire in a crowded building of course right the his version of it would be you can yell fire because if you get in trouble for yelling fire in a crowded building what you're doing is you're not trusting the other people in that building to make a sound moral decision about whether or not there's a fire yeah exactly right that part of the audience there is capable of knowing instantaneously when hearing fire whether or not there is or is not a fire right right if i if i don't smell fire i'm not going to move from my seat right you were showing a rank distrust and disrespect to the people in that theater uh if you get the person in trouble just

for yelling fire all he did was try and trick hundreds of people into doing something silly i don't understand what he's putting on people is absurd yeah like the the it i don't even know how to describe it it's just such a strange way to look at things it is it is such a fascinating it doesn't matter what i do you must respond yes i know it's such and also the fire in a crowded theater thing is a really interesting analogy when you actually like apply it to what he's saying is in a way i don't trust these people's instant reaction to this guy screaming fire because that guy could be a bad actor he could be a bad faith actor and in a split second he is uh influencing your emotional behavior bypassing your rational thought processes and and in

influencing you to act in a way that is detrimental to your own benefit right yeah well that's what barns is and that's what he's doing well it's on you to make a sound rational decision whatever it's almost like barns is daring the odd i dare you to disagree with me i don't necessarily agree so at this point they get into talking about alex and his specific suit and barns has some real stupid things to say about it his main argument seems to be that this is like a like a focused attack and using alex as an example because what they're doing is they're deplatforming him and then also defaming him and when they defame him he's not able to respond to the defamation because he's been deplatformed this is silly and i know it's silly because of the examples that he

uses okay but they're doing it in parallel the platforming and defamation and doing it both ways they're not only when they deplatformed him they deprived him of his ability to fight back in the court of public opinion on those public platforms so not a right they started lying about him in the craziest ways they said that he had child porn completely false said he said child porn to people's families totally false said he said child porn to to lawyers totally for all of it was totally false he had actually been the victim of somebody trying to plan it on his servers of people who hate him so here's the guy who's a victim of an assault who has instead lied about and this was confirmed by the fbi by the way this is not just an opinion the fbi confirmed that they were on

his friend remember rightly correct me where i go astray of course but there were uh unopened emails in defunct or unchecked email accounts and if i understand it correctly they were turned over as part of discovery but this was not as it was portrayed but as you point out he can't really fight back because he's been silenced exactly so they're able to lie about him with impunity here's the thing you know how stiff on knows these things because it was fucking reported yeah like this isn't like no one was reporting the story that alex sent these people child porn for shits and giggles how did you get that information that isn't that isn't how the media covered this that's insider information dan if you're if you're complaining about people

misunderstanding the story that was correctly reported in like the new york times in washington post that i don't know what to do i don't know what to do for you your complaint is that people on twitter are dumb all right yes that is the case but if you're trying to as stiff on is doing and as um robert barnes is presenting they're presenting the idea that the the media lied about this situation and that is not true i've read a bunch of articles about that situation because we had to cover it on this show and all of them were clear about the circumstances they were clear that the fbi had been involved and had said that it does not appear that alex was aware of it these were unopened there was no culpability that was assigned to alex jones at best i don't even know

if this was in any of the articles or just what i took away from it the criticism that could be launched is how the fuck did he not look at what he was turning over to discovery that is the sort of criticism that could be made this is a sloppy handling of a legal case that is what could be taken from it if you want to talk about the interpretations that people could have of um um the the like whatever someone might walk away from it if they didn't read the whole article yeah well then you're just talking about alex's business model so it's almost like you're not trusting the audience to read the entire article man that's interesting infringing upon their free speech rights i if i i guess so yeah but so that's his example here

of like alex being defamed and deplatformed he wasn't defamed the the reports that i've read were very clear about the situation and if he was being defamed then him being on twitter isn't gonna help he needs to sue those people that's like it doesn't matter anyway i i i love the such like it's so stupid for him to be like and no there's no way for this information to get out that he didn't actually the media controls him and they've silenced him so there's no way that anybody could get that information out okay uh so it's let me repeat back to you exactly what i read quoting from the washington post yes defund malinu comes in with information yeah he has about the case that he's read in reporting yeah it's so stupid so stupid so there's other lies

that the media has defamed alex about sure there are people that said he lost the lawsuit that had nothing to do with it there are people that said he published a book that had nothing to do with him there are people that said he had anti-semitic statements that he never did they he made a reference to a lawyer being a white two lawyer and they refer to that they changed that to white due lawyer you know nothing to do with the guy wouldn't even do it had there was no anti-semitism at all um so the thing about alex losing a lawsuit and writing the book no one died it's andy hook was a complete fuck up by i think it was market watch i believe was the website uh-huh we've discussed this already and alex would be right to get in touch with them and insist that

they retract and apologize however as we've seen alex pretends that it was the ap who put that headline out and has said over and over again he's contacted the ap and they stand by it they won't retract it and this is because they didn't write it and didn't publish it a completely different website did this is what alex is grandstanding about suing the associated press about earlier in the episode which is never going to fly and barns fucking knows that this is a publicity stunt and you can tell because there's a clear problem that is real and they're attacking the straw man yep the problem is super easy to resolve all you have to do is contact market watch and if they refuse to correct it then you sue them if all you do is focus on the associated press you're not

interested in the correction you're not interested in the real problem you're interested in pretending that the largest news outlet in the united states is slandering you and the real reason to do that is to elevate and exaggerate your own victim hood mark my words that lawsuit will never happen because any lawyer alex could possibly have would know that it would be thrown out immediately and possibly even open up avenues for fines for a frivolous or malicious filing of a suit like it's it's absolutely ridiculous not if you are working for the free america law center that lawsuit is coming baby i don't know i still think even barns would know like this opens up potential sanctions that's why he hires shitty or lawyer sure as for the white shoe boy thing i was always

against the reading of alex's words as Jew boy but also alex was really drunk when he said that and he was talking super unclearly in that rant i can totally understand how someone could hear Jew boy in there but i think if you're familiar enough with alex's career and style you would know he wouldn't throw around stuff like that he has decades under his belt of walking a very fine line and even he's aware that calling someone Jew boy is going to raise more questions about his rhetoric than he wants asked yeah that's that's one of those things where i i was i understand why people would think oh him being drunk means he's more likely to throw out a slur and otherwise but at the same time a like performing wise there i don't know i thought i'm pretty sure that this is uh

almost uh consistent across the board but there's a certain amount of muscle memory that takes over even if you're drunk sure like i've i've been drunk before and then i walk up on stage and do the same set that i normally do sober yeah it's just it's just muscle memory and then you walk down well it you know and you're back to being drunk again which is why i don't think that even if alex is really drunk he's going to forget all of those performance things sure but there's a difference between that like going in autopilot or whatever the performance state yeah and then dealing with chaos while you're performing like if you started getting heckled you might end up the drunkenness might come back that's possible that's a good question and so i don't know if that works as well

as it might feel like it for alex's drunken ranting yeah but i still even like in his intoxicated state i still i think he knows better like he's very used to knowing where approximate lines are he tests those lines before he crosses them a lot of the time yeah like we're seeing in 2013 there's a lot of calling everybody else actors before he jumps in and starts doing the sandy hook actor stuff that's testing a line that's like towing up to it and seeing how it feels before he commits to it he would never just drunkenly like yell this guy's a jew boy yeah i just don't feel like it's in his character even if there is a ton of antisemitism in his worldview for sure i just don't think it makes sense the transcripts that the plaintiffs made of that rant did say jew

boy but even critics of alex like will summer uh he tweeted that that wasn't what he said my overall feeling about this is that the transcription folks were incorrect but i don't think it came from a place of malice or trying to defame alex i think alex was fucking wasted screaming about the plaintiff's lawyer and putting a million dollar bounty on his head and it would be easy to make the mistake uh if in the transcription if you're not really all that familiar with alex especially considering white shoe boy isn't a super well-known term yeah that's not a slang insult that gets thrown around by most people so i i don't know if it's on the tip of a lot of people's tongues yeah so you're doing the transcript you're like

i mean he's drunk he's kind of slurring yeah you don't know what white shoe boy means because why would you right i still don't know what it means it means like a ivy league upper crust kind of uh uh i don't know richie yeah so anyway uh we get back to barns defending alex in the court of public opinion if you will on stefan malinusio so he is the tip of the spear for lawfare as the victim and target of big media big tech collusion to be able to completely suppress and censor him and the reason is because he is the most independent media voice out there people don't have to agree with him but they always know i'm going to get an independent perspective when i listen to alex jones not only that i'm going to get a perspective i likely don't

hear almost anywhere else i'm going to get information i don't hear from anywhere else and i the audience should have the power and the choice to decide whether i agree with it or don't whether i like it or don't or whether i research it or don't smash cut to a 10 hour montage of alex selling ted anderson's gold no shit matched up with uh right before it saying there's going to be a financial collapse immediately good god yeah fuck off yeah i love this idea that like uh the trying to like package alex as this like just rogue independent media guy who's like get the fuck out of here man i don't like is is i i i don't know obviously because i'm not in legal circles but is lawfare thrown around a lot i think it's a term that's used yeah i i've encountered

it in my uh looking into things yeah because i'm not stoked about it that's that's not how you you know what it's a word that barnes uses a lot and i've noticed from listening to a bit of him that he is also one of these guys who likes to speak in alliteration and rhymes yeah he loves that man he says lies and libels all the fuck it's all the time what a dick whatever he says either word it's both yeah no and it's it's just more like that that kind of uh aggressive like we're always fighting a war everything is a war right every word needs to be about war you know so you should be like instead of lawfare it should be law war yeah instead of info wars it should be info law wars yeah so uh in this next clip uh the it just gets grandiose about

alex's struggle and uh i think it's a little silly i've been proud to be a part of trying to defend alex jones in the court of public opinion we are going to be bringing legal actions of all kinds to assert his free speech and free press rights uh and his audience has been behind him but his cases will likely shake the future of free speech and free press in america it will ultimately some of them will end up in the u.s and cream court and that's why it's so important that he have the best representation the best legal arguments made the best defense is presented because ultimately we are alex jones alex jones because that's how the law is going to treat us and that's how big tech and big media will try to treat us in the future i would say okay yeah i would

say i would say fine i don't think that there's anything wrong with media and big tech treating me like alex jones i'm 100 for it in fact from my from where i'm sitting he's you know getting the consequences of his actions if you can if i directly inspire a harassment to go on for years and years and years i think i would be i think i'd be fine with if somebody was like yeah you're gonna need to be punished for that and honestly he's lucky that that's the only lawsuit that he's facing no kid or i mean it's not but yeah what i mean more is he's lucky that there's not a hundred more because his his style his broadcast his what he does largely depends on not doing yeah like he's just straight up constantly lying about people and lying about things lying about

things is a great thing that doesn't get you sued yeah yeah that's a good point or lying about dead people who you know i guess they can't really sue you so i i think that when i look at all this what i come away from it with is a large sense of suspicion and i don't think that like i don't think that it's even possible at this point to know what barns's game is but the there's strong indications that you know he he's done some marquee cases in the past like he was wesley snipes lawyer in that tax thing yeah he's tried to latch on to a lot of these right wing grifters and i think that this case along with the covington case he's trying to really make a name for himself under the auspices of the free america law center right it's entirely possible that it's just

a scam it's entirely possible that he believes that these other conservative libertarian christian um public law offerings are not catered to the specific needs that he has yeah and and if he presented his argument as these things do exist but they're not working in the direction i want them to so we want to create our own niche thing i would find that argument a little bit more honest since he's not presenting it like that and all of this is just we don't have anything and the splc and aclu are running over us that duplicitous framing of it makes me really worried about what the real intentions are so all i can do is take the pieces of information that are available to me and try and make sense of them and this last clip doesn't help anything thanks a lot robin a great

deal of pleasure to share absolutely proud and privileged beyond he's proud and privileged to be interviewed by staphon malinu someone who is a creep of the highest order and a self-described empiricist who supports white nationalism yeah so i just don't i don't see a way around looking at this in the context that barns is offering me i'm not i'm not trying to you know malign him in any way i'm looking at his actions comparing them to someone who did very similar things in the past yeah and also looking at the ways in which he sees fit to publicize his venture he's willing to you know he promotes it on alex's show but we'll sit down with staphon malinu and talk about it for an hour in a way that drifts deeply into christian identity and white identity

ideas that to me is not unimportant no no i would say so far every every feel and interaction and every time i've heard anything about him and every time i've heard his voice barns creeps me out and he is he's running something on someone always yeah i don't think he's ever i've never heard him in any situation where i feel like he was genuine on the up and up yeah yeah everything has always been like you're running some game on somebody sometime right now yeah like i just don't even know who it is yeah that that is definitely how i feel and i think that a lot of our indications of like him trying to take over info wars could easily be like actually this yeah like it could that be uh easily explained by him trying to set up this counter to the splc yeah now that it now

that we've heard about that that makes a lot more sense than him trying to run his own radio station of course and there's so many people now who are like uh be the tech is starting to take some of these things more seriously and the there are a lot of people who have like fascist outlets a lot of people who have white supremacist outlets that are going to be needing a lawyer and so creating a counter splc that caters to people who are of that ilk it does seem like it could be a pretty profitable venture so that's why i don't exclude the idea that he's just scamming yeah but it's also even if it is a scam it's a dangerous scam yeah so anyway this took me quite off the path from uh actually looking at the fifth i understand the freeway rick ross was on

the show and i didn't listen to that but uh i guess since that we went down this road a little bit maybe we should stay in the past uh present for wednesday we'll see yeah either way we'll be back on wednesday indeed we will until then dan we have a website we do have a website it's knowledgefight.com uh and also we are on some other social media we're on twitter yeah at go to bet jordan and at knowledge underscore fight yes and barn's law and yeah you can look for it and it will appear unless you are not connected to wi-fi in which case it does not appear that is really important we're also on facebook we are and if you want to download our podcast you go to itunes you go to anywhere you could leave a review that would be lovely true the best place to get it though

if you go to your local convenience store and i'm not going to buzz market for any specific one right it's the one where uh racist yells at you yes if you're a minority that's the that's the most important part yes uh go there look for the third can we you're going to see the first can of coca cola in those little things you're going to want to grab it it's not in there it's the two behind it right you will be able to get our podcast from that can of coca cola there will be a flash drive inside it absolutely always now i would like to make a recommendation for a future one of these okay all right write this down are we are we taking pictures now work in kings cake i think that's a good one flash drive in a king's cake flash drive in a king's cake all right has to be

mardi gras oh write that down save it for february mardi gras gotcha mardi gras february yeah all right we'll be back but until then i'm neo i'm leo i'm dzx clark i am the jesus lizard andy and chansas you're on the earth thanks for holding so alexa my first name caller i'm a huge fan i love your work i love you