Knowledge Fight - #411: Jordan Takes The Wheel 3

Episode Date: March 25, 2020

Today, the show takes a Wacky Wednesday break from the present day to let Jordan take over the show and present a topic of his choosing. In this installment, he tells Dan about a couple of televangelists, and Dan in return tells him about a few wrestlers.

I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys saying we are the bad guys knowledge I'm a huge fan I love your work knowledge fight knowledge fight dot com I love you hey everybody welcome back to fight knowledge I'm Jordan I'm Dan hey and this is a podcast where I start making up nonsense about people and we see what happens okay hey Dan hi Jordan how are you doing great I got a question for you what's that what is your thing for the day that is brightening your spirits in this trying time we all find ourselves I I have been it is good to spend time with my partner sure I love her very much she's kind of you know we're all kind of getting used to this circumstance but

having her has really made this a lot a lot easier oh it's great me from going crazy how about you I'm happy for you yeah thank you mine's going to be a little bit less of emotionally resident I stumbled across some videos on you don't worry she doesn't listen I stumbled across some videos on YouTube by this this pro skateboarder from Switzerland named Johnny Geiger okay and what he does he has a series of videos where he he's a professional skateboarder so he's he's good at skateboarding okay well yeah what he does he has a series where he's trying to recreate the tricks that Rodney Mullin did these really difficult tricks from like classic skate videos trying to do them himself okay and I find them so endearing like he seems

like a pretty cool guy he has a good bright personality and one of the things that I really like about these videos is that they're really a celebration of process okay like you see him fail like repeatedly okay and like trying to figure out how to do the trick and then there's like a long learning curve through it and then the eventual payoff of hard work you know winning out and he does the tricks right so it's good to be impossible there's there's so hard to do right and you know just perseverance pushing through when you fall over and over and over and over and over again yeah and the other thing too is like through that failure you see the the incremental progress you see like oh that little part of the trick he's figured out now how to do that yeah but he's

still falling at the end right right right really find that um brightening I really I really enjoy it because he could have just posted the successful trick yeah and he probably would have gotten a shit ton of views out of that people watch all those little clips of you know way better in the structure that it is yeah yeah yeah and I enjoy it it's been a night and it's like outdoors and Switzerland yeah gorgeous it looks nice music's great so I enjoy I have no idea who this dude is I'd never heard of him until a couple days ago but I can't stop watching these videos or he tries to recreate these tricks that's really cool shout out to Johnny guy hey hey Sonya do you know him I know she's in Sweden she's she can't that's a different place I don't know I don't know what

that means but that's my bad yeah that's all right uh anyways uh Dan I've taken over yeah that's true we're doing a reverse uh fight knowledge episode uh and I figured that since we talk almost I'm done I'm done with Mark Moreno by the way oh that's good I'm done with people would be sick and tired yeah yeah well before you get down to business I'll let you take the wheel but um before you do we got to take a moment to say thank you to some folks who have signed up and are supporting the show a lot of nick a lot of initials on this episode got you so first Anthony G thank you so much you're now Policy Wonk I'm a policy wonk thanks g johnny g next Joe R thank you so much you're now Policy Wonk I'm a Policy Wonk thank you Joe are thank you next Alex you thank you

so much you're now policy wonk I'm a Policy Wonk thank you Alex you I like to believe that one's alex university I like it next AK thank you so much you're now a policy wonk I'm a policy wonk I like to think that's AK university could be next Michael G thank you so much you're now a policy wonk I'm a policy wonk thank you Michael G next Roger thank you so much you're now a policy wonk I'm a policy wonk thanks Roger I just learned as someone posted that Roger Stone is on cameo and so you can pay him to record of course you can of course you can very close tried to buy a cameo from it just have him say it's over for humanity there will only be lone survivors I've been trying to think like what I would want Roger Stone to say and it's

you know I feel like there's already audio of a lot of things I want to hear yeah yeah yeah I think I would just want to have him read a list of words just like completely out of just poopy pants outdoors I would just enjoy it I would love I think I might end up I can't I can't justify that purchase anyway tessa thank you so much you're now policy wonk I'm a policy wonk thank you tessa next Jed thank you so much you're now a policy wonk I'm a policy wonk thanks Jed thanks Jed next finally Armand thank you so much you are now a policy wonk I'm a policy wonk thank you very much Armand thank you Armand if you're out there listening you're thinking hey I enjoy the show I'd like to spoil with these gents do you do that but going to our website knowledge fight

dot com clicking the button says support the show we would appreciate it would be very very helpful now I bequeath the show to you Jordan here we go so you I mean you've done this a couple times now I mean it's like four hundred still fucking up the first part of the episode four hundred episodes in or so this is your third yeah and let's two of them have been complaining about mark merino and climate change right so everyone's probably expecting that that's what you're going to talk about and honestly I've seen the clip names I have no idea yeah no idea what you're about to tell me about yeah so here is a here's what I want to talk about since we have talked almost exclusively about people who either don't believe in what they're saying

maybe believe in what they're saying but either way are acting completely differently and then what that's real I wanted to see what would happen if we talked about people who actually believe what they're talking about all right I also oh man I see a name in here and I hope it's who I think it is but I'm sure it's not we'll see yeah uh yeah so uh I mean might as well go ahead and play uh our out of context job I think the pope needs to seek Donald Trump's forgiveness for saying such an outlandish thing okay do you know who we're talking about I'm not entirely sure I mean I he has the voice of a televangelist he is a televangelist yes sir okay I I went the opposite direction with this they actually believe what they say uh-huh I thought

you meant it with someone who has a good opinion and believes absolutely not I thought this was going to be like an uplifting these people are not a chance I am not sure who this uh this fella is so is it is it I know it's not pat robertson no and I know it's not jack van impi it is not him I don't know it is robert jeffers okay I've heard that name I know that guy he's the head pastor of first baptist church of Dallas and I I started looking into him because I wanted to talk about religion or something along those lines I was looking for something to talk about and I had this idea of what are we what are we talking about if we talk about somebody who believes what they're talking about so when I talk about belief I'm I don't know if Dr robert

jeffers or any I'm going to talk about a few televangelists today I don't know if they actually in their heart of hearts believe this bullshit it's almost impossible to tell exactly but the guys that I am going to talk about have all actually lived their lives according to these principles so and and by all accounts successfully sort of like bill cooper dying the way he did exactly is kind of a indication of living by the things right right I don't know if they believe it or not but they are professional believers walk in the walk every single day they are paid to wake up and act as though they are the most christian people in the world and that's that's what they do all right so as far as belief goes that's what I'm talking about not do they think that it's

it's 100 true all right and the guys that I'm talking about specifically dr robert jeffers is a fox news televangelist he is the tv guy that you go to if you want any defense of trump from any really any attack he will defend trump doing any he's a guy there's a lot of religious folks who would do that is it the case that he just has less toxicity to him than like jim baker yes okay absolutely that's why you can slot him in on a tv show this guy and the more I research the uh the collar clean as it were yeah yeah yeah no and this guy i've i've researched this guy for uh like the past two days non stop and by all accounts he is an incredibly sweet nice kind human being who has the most vicious awful thoughts and like he has charmed journalist

after journalist who's gone with him like i'm gonna work with a guy named michael mooney a lot of his work and he's basically like lived with jeffers for a while to see what's going on you see if he's a huckster you know you hear some of or you get that sense from like some of those louis the roe documentaries right where he goes and he's like all these people are terrible but some of them are kind of nice to right right right so as you pass and this guy is a complete psychopath uh like what these televangelists do is tv like they do it because they're good at the tv part these guys aren't the guys who love the grift they're like like alex is like a comic who's hustling all the time trying to sneak on to gigs trying to find every possible way

selling merch after the shows that kind of stuff the televangel is that i'm talking about are more like they're just really talented performers like they want the spotlight exactly and they're really good at it and they're paid because they're talented performers to to your point though yeah i think that alex primarily is only grinding and selling merch after the shows because he was pursuing the limelight sure overextended himself to the point where he now has a giant studio absolutely all that shit he has to pay for and no one could pay him ads that's that's probably so he it's sort of a functional thing whereas if he had his druthers he probably would be as like attention grabby i don't know maybe it's a weird thought but i'm sorry i don't mean to derail no no no you're not

derailing me at all i as far as that goes that's a that's an interesting question except these guys are the ones who took the steps that get you there alex didn't so i think he thought it was yeah that's that's probably true maybe audition for a movie i got told he has to worship the devil like mark dice got told me um yeah i mean this guy is the guy who goes on fox news and says democrats worship satan mormonism is a cult he got into a huge fight with mit romney in 2008 because he said that mormons were a cult and we could never vote for him and the john huntsman was a better mormon exactly steve sorry steve janik yeah and then in 2012 he was like well we of course we got to vote for mit romney we can't not vote for him he's that kind of guy

and like all televangelists he's written a ridiculous number of books that i don't think anybody reads ever probably one of those like bulk purchases things yeah totally because his but and they all his books all have clickbait titles like the most recent one is courageous ten strategies for thriving in a hostile world then there's how can i know answers to life seven most important questions how can i know uh huh or god seven secrets for success and significant like nobody's the same as the habits of highly effective people almost exactly okay yeah i i don't think anybody has read these and all televangelists write this the exact same book you know i bet i i bet people have read it and i bet their church small groups oh yeah totally i bet that certain groups right

church is like they get together and they have a book study right well and he's he's the pastor of a megachurch so he does have a captive audience there where it's like he can he owns the printing press that prints his books yeah and sells them to the people who work at the printing press that kind of thing good good grift yeah like good grief good grief good grief um so i i wanted to find out where this dude comes from uh and as far as his early life there's really not much detail going on the biography that you keep getting is jeffras was or jeffras was raised in dalis uh at the age of seven he joined the first baptist church of dalis he was saved by what day what year was this uh let's see he's 64 now so that puts us at

he was 57 years ago so how long was he in dalis um his whole career no no no not his whole career he was raised in dalis up until there's overlap with alex there is oh boy yeah he's raised in dalis he goes to baler so he's he's a wake-o guy this dude is first baptist all the way okay and he was saved by legendary televangelist benny him w a chris well the guy who established returned to the first baptist church of dalis into basically the fair the first megachurch um and uh levy here's a little bit of chris well we have a full program tonight so we begin may i speak on the curse of liberalism sure yeah that's how he starts it's a good opening volley yeah and he is let's talk about that uh

five one three there you go yeah that's that's basically what we're talking about when you get down to it uh and chris well is like one of the biggest televangelists and he's got that southern baptist tradition that i am absolutely mystified but like i i love it i really do i love listening to southern baptist preachers there's an energy to oh man yeah just just listen to him tell a story oklahoma and texas play football in the cotton ball i gotta i gotta stop already this has a real dusty road oh yeah oh yeah seated right there squared in front of me was an oklahoma fan in all of that whole side of texas fanatics there he was there he was in the days of bud wilkinson he stood up right there in front of me and held up a hundred dollar bill and he said oh you texas

i'll give you seven points and bet you this hundred dollar bill would beat you didn't have any takers sat down after a little while stood up again and said oh you texas i'll give you 14 points and bet this hundred dollar bill would beat you nobody took him after a little while he stood up again said oh i'll give you 21 points and bet you this hundred dollar bill that we beat you didn't have any takers he sat right down there in front of me and i said man i'd like to have you in my church you believe in your team and you put your money where your mouth is boy i'd like to have you in my church this guy sounds like a little plumber son grew up and became so sweet that's very it's very dusty roads ish yeah you hear him yelling about hard times yeah yeah

all these hard times daddy yeah you put in death the road through some hard times hard times when they fire you give you a watch oh yeah but that is like the good version of it dusty roads yeah but it's one of the actual like you know kind of scabby preachers it's a bummer because it is a really infectious seductive manner of speaking yeah but when it's a pro wrestler who's the american dream it's perfect who's maybe his belly is a little too big maybe it's high and he's a little too big doesn't look like the athlete of the day but you know a brother he's bad and they know he's bad and rick flair i'm coming for your title rick flair now you see why it's great yeah of course it's so good yeah

it's so fun yeah and then someone who comes from the midwest too it's like yeah it's almost in your dna that kind of like it's really fun the tent revivalist yeah yeah that's crossed uh that's crossed the world and then you know i i grew up in a in a church background my family was a cult and chris well was absolutely a cult leader in fact billy graham was a member of chris well's church like he brought billy graham into the fold and then he went to turn heel exactly so he's the rick flair exactly but graham tried to pull me through hard time i think billy graham might actually have tried to put him through oh yeah maybe try to give him a watch um so yeah so chris well creates the modern mega church uh basically and he's doing this to build a compound he is not

building a mega church he's building like a complete sort of like jim baker's uh morning side exactly jim baker is a fan of chris well i would yeah i mean yeah just everybody is yeah but this is from to give you an idea this guy is creating a christian separatist compound essentially and this is from a sermon he gave in the 80s um christian education is education an environment of the mind and heart and will of our blessed lord it is an institution it's a school where the faculty and the administration and the trustees and the classes and the environment and most of the student body are all christian i don't know why he said most because he wants all of it putting most in there seems so ridiculous to me no no no you got to let in a couple non christians

in order for there to be a game yeah it does seem like that right yeah need to have like five percent non christian but by the end of the term right right right now it's a little bit like the 97 percent voted for me where it's no no no no no no that because that's just an illusion right you need to keep things interesting are you saying that this is that he's turning this school into a into a a game a hunt well more or less i mean not the most dangerous game because you're not killing people but it is you know in a way spiritually i know from my time at a baptist mega church that a lot of the thing that seemed to animate the faith of some folks within the church certainly not all of them yeah but the evangelism part of it really seemed to give it meaning yeah

so i would believe that if you wanted to create this christian only environment and you're someone like this guy you'd let in five eight percent non christians in order to give people to convert you got to have somebody to chase right it's all it's almost like good feeding pets well i mean there's a certain section of the the student body that's probably going to need that right all these people are snakes and so every now and then you got to throw a mouse in there for them to i got you i mean that that just makes sense yeah no you're you're not wrong and he basically created that he created this and robert jeffers is the result of an education completely controlled by w a chris well he i swear to you he is like an experiment the more i've looked into him he was

groomed by chris well from the age of seven he is an absolute automaton he's not a human being he's a psychopath and he is the most terrifying man alive to me because he believes everything that he is told by by chris well so he's raised by chris well goes to baler immediately out of baler gets hired right back at first baptist church in dalis works there for a few years then he goes to become the head pastor at first baptist in eastland texas which chris well helped him get the job then after that he becomes the head pastor at first baptist church in wichita in texas which he got because of his wichita in texas wichita falls yeah and then in 2007 five years after chris well died jeffers became head pastor of first baptist in dalis and took

over like this was the king coming home to this was fucking simba coming back to rooth's yeah and he is relentless and insane and i couldn't find any early sermons of his whenever he was you know before first baptist in dalis however he did go on card sharks i like that game in 1986 that was a great game and you can find it was card sharks the one where it's just high low basically is absolutely just high low i love that yeah no it's great but here's the thing that i forgot about card sharks they ask like survey questions like family feud yeah and everybody is i think encouraged to give a weird personal tidbit before they give their answer for the survey question that would make sense i mean you got to keep it a little interesting yeah yeah so

you find out a lot of weird information about people um people were surveyed how many people ate tacos on the last month is it over 40 percent or under yeah that's the game that's the game and then they put out like the the playing cards and you have like a seven on there and you buy higher or lower i think it's higher that's the whole game it's a six that's the whole game yeah yep i love it it's so dumb it is incredibly stupid here's is it you can't go back and watch shows in the eighties though like and then if you win you get like i don't know a toaster he you you'd get a beach ball yes surprise oh no at the end of this he went on like a few episodes and i think you wound up winning about forty five hundred dollars which in 1986 money is pretty good

that's not bad um it's it's wild to go back and watch shows from the eighties because you can't do it they they wind up doing all kinds of weird man like if you watch any kind of stuff from like the any any of those shows yeah you have everyone's drunk yeah and they're all saying shit that's like oh my god yeah absolutely yeah in this one the the host of the show has joss is kissing people basically yeah he's got ten and he announces them as such ten college coads right who are asked to sit up next to the stage like prices right style and we're talking about ladies oh yeah all right that's why they're called college coads in the eighties that you knew what that meant i never understood that co educational means it's men and women i know but it's always

yeah it always describes i think it's more like i think it was popular as maybe by playboy because it was women that you would actually went to school with and not probably private you know that i would assume it's a half thing yeah something like that so there's ten ladies ten women they were surveyed how many of you would kiss on the first date okay the the contestant against jeffers says uh it is six six women would actually kiss on the first date the guy asks our boy robert robert says the number is higher and then this happens is ten everybody everybody so it is higher it is every one of you every one i want to see you all personally backstage after the show sit down you hussies sit down all right robert here's the car i mean hey look

that's terrible but that's the host right right it's just this isn't like an indictment of the show no no no i mean this happens all the time sure but it is wild to me that's yeah this monster who would later on go on fox news who would give a sermon about how homosexuals should be killed this guy is on card sharks in the 1980s that is weird and he is just well don't you infectious well don't you remember when paul pot was on the five hundred thousand dollar pyramid don't you remember when charles i disagree with the yeah and he's seriously he is a joy to watch on this show yeah i promise you go go watch this episode of card sharks this his joy is infectious and he is just a very genuine and real human being this is him introducing himself i'd love to see

like uh the reverend manning on uh on that game all right sorry here's his intro first time from eastland texas where i'm the pastor of the first badminton church of eastland oh that is presently until my congregation finds out i'm out here playing cards on national television i may have to find another line of work you may have some extra penance back at the chapel i got a whole congregation praying for me at both that's uh he's just reasonably charming yeah he's just tv ready this is him this is him winning yeah this is a super cut of him winning uh whenever he gets questions right all right comes and okay definitely lower lower than an ace it's a six higher bill he's going higher than a six it's a nine three he's gonna freeze he's gonna have an answer

robert let's go he's going for it if he is correct he's our new champion lower than a nine new champ new champ do you hear that oh yeah it is for the match it is it is take that rick lau the champion pulled it out that's why he's a champ he's done it very good robert very good robert good job robby i don't know if you could hear it well but all of those whoos all of that was him i couldn't i i i don't know what i assumed that was yeah somehow i didn't think that yeah that that's uh yeah but everything he's jumping up and down he's flapping his arms back and forth clapping it is he's screaming he's whooping jeffers is fucking loving it and people love him and he's he's giving like i said there's not much information

about his early life but there are all these weird little things that he starts giving up in the in the course of asking a question they'll ask you like we surveyed a hundred people one of them said but how many do you think said this and you say well is it sixty or more but you have to give a personal you know to your tacos thing we surveyed a hundred people how many of you had tacos last night well i eat tacos every single night and i've been doing that for 30 years so i'm going to go with four like it's that it's that kind of thing yeah yeah this is his biography as told through two episodes of card sharks did he 1980 was it two episodes he was on or was he like a weak champion like i can genning he was on for like a week yeah but i could only find two

on uh on youtube okay bill i used to date a lot of college co-eds that was before i was married and uh i'm convinced they were in love with more than one person at that time so i have a lot of third graders in my congregation and they see i have been performing a lot of wedding ceremonies lately and i think there's a trend back to the more traditional type of marriage i'm married no children yet and looking forward to another great day on card sharks at a boy i do a lot of the same work as a psychiatrist in counseling people and i think i'm a pretty good judge of character and i would think most psychiatrists being doctors are pretty egotistical i know a lot of women watch soap operas today and some men too and they tend to fantasize a lot but i think i used to live

in an apartment with six other guys and things got pretty grungy there pretty crusty over oh pretty grungy don't worry that's the the audio is uh from youtube there but the um i don't i don't find anything too weird about i mean it's a little grandiose who like i'm basically a psychiatrist yep and they like i dated a lot of ladies and that's just alex saying he fucked all the satanic cheerleaders and stuff but yeah those are the those are the only details that i can find from anybody about his younger years also i find it dubious yeah no i don't know i don't know how much of anything is true but this is this is all stuff that he believes that's part of this and this entire time he is tv ready and you see at the moment he goes on the show because he was trained by the

televangelist he was raised to be on tv this is a guy who is obsessed with tv and he's like here he is just cracking jokes like he's killing it's congressman in washington dc and we ask them do you think that alien creatures from another planet have ever landed on the earth how many u.s congressmen do think alien creatures have landed on the earth i imagine a lot of them think they're still serving with some of them in congress they're uh looking at that new tv that killing what they're doing but uh most of them would probably not want to admit it even if they did believe it because of their reputation so i'm going to say that's going to be a low number of 22 22 out of 100 that's a pretty good rationalization for your guest yeah yeah he's he's tv ready he's

direct he's got the timing down the the host fucking loves him they are cracking jokes back and forth the entire time now he's the kind of person you'd want on there i mean he's against type yeah like he's he's charming and charismatic seems to be fine in that setting though he's a preacher you know like it's yeah it's a it's a unique contestant yeah absolutely and while he's doing all of this he is preaching the most homophobic like hiv is god's plan for gay people like this is all going on somehow it didn't make it onto car sharks it's surprising right yeah yeah all of this stuff is happening at the same time as this incredibly nice charming and funny guy is on tv doing what he is the best at and uh like i said i've read a lot from michael mooney about him

and he's this is one of the quotes that he gives from a 2012 prototype profile um this is mooney speaking in the days i spent with him sometimes from sunrise to sunset he convinced me that that bright eyed schoolboy persona is not an act he decided very early on that he was a christian and though he has grown intellectually he has several postgraduate degrees in theology he has never changed his mind on anything ever that said he still enjoys the company of people who see the world differently that guy is very scary uh yeah we are so used to disingenuous people in this world specifically that you can see why it's easy to be charmed by a guy like dr robert jeffers because he's he's genuine like this guy has spent this guy is a journalist who has worked with

he's a dallas uh journalist he's been through the whole ringer with all of these fucking liars and and bullshit artists and that sure and jeffers absolutely charmed him like without question yeah um because he is genuine he genuinely believes all this shit he is open-hearted and clear eyed whenever he says all of this awful stuff that he believes and he can crack a joke while he's doing it i'm only slightly exaggerating when i say that even though i know he is not committed a crime in his entire life he is a dangerous society that needs to be quarantined like the fucking joker this guy is terrified and it's all because chris well created him okay that's why i know he hasn't committed any crimes or done anything like this

he was created in chris well's lab to do all this stuff and the reason that i thought about jeffers is not because of his appearances on fox news where i mean i know you're a regular watcher yeah i know you love fox and friends yeah in particular and red i love red i those guys are so funny yeah they're so funny the right is getting really good at it he the no the reason that i'm talking about him is because he recently got into a disagreement with a a guy named randy robison uh now he was the guitarist for quiet riot right randy road no is there yeah check that out it's randy road everybody's roads well that's a

reference to our fifth episode or four hundred episodes all right guys start from the beginning so randy is wait it is randy it's just not roads it's rhodeson yeah it's rhodeson yeah yeah ready go ahead go ahead um randy robison is also a televangelist but he is the son of maybe the best southern baptist preacher i've ever heard any him james robison close this is this is a this is james robison this is not from too long ago this is randy's dad yeah this is randy's dad this story is 40 years old and he has honed this into a fucking knife the story is basically let me give you the story this is the entire story okay there's a carpet cleaner named milton green all right milton green invites our boy james robison to sit in a chair

he says i think that you're in torment and i'm going to get rid of demons he does that what a guy everything's fine what a nice guy this is how the greatest baptist preacher tells this story Robert and i didn't sit down in front of a carpet cleaner named milton green and milton said would you sit in a chair i need to pray for your most tormented man ever saw i want to say if you read my brochures do you know who you're talking to do you know he said why don't you come over and just sit in his chair and all day come sit in a chair so help me i promise you i'm leaning up against the wall in the holiday in bed if i have ever seen something that looked like an execution chair an electric chair

i'm looking at i could see stuff hanging all over and it was like boy i heard you're getting that chair you're dead one of the good things about that like uh the style of talking is just like it's so awesome that they just seem completely comfortable being out of breath yeah yeah yeah he's always out of breath yeah always out of breath there's something very appealing i don't know why because it seems unhealthy but there's something about it that just is like yeah well maybe it's because it adds sincerity to it it's like it's like this is difficult i'm like i'm digging down to try and tell you no he's the runner for marathon literally i i'm giving you this information to save your life that is how important this is here is what he's what he's saying is a guy asked him

to sit him in a chair yeah and this is a titanic life or death struggle and it continues if i had ever known that charismatic's ever said would you come sit in the chair all the king's horses and all the king's men couldn't gotten in that chair now you're not ashamed how we intimidate people like that dog that comes in the room all beating down people coming to church beating down because been beat up by the preacher whip whip whip they don't come in like conquers like soldiers and the whole armor of god warring against the principalities and powers taking the shield of faith quenching every fiery dart of the wicked they don't lodge they're not fiery darts they're useless wasteful suggestions we need buying the lie is there something i don't understand about this chair

no okay it is a folding chair okay just make a chair of the kind you might imagine tan i don't understand what's wrong with sitting in the chair it is terrified okay cool i don't what was he what was he even talking about right i mean principalities he's talking about demons sure that's about all i got that's about all you got there's a chair but you want to run through a fucking brick wall for this i'm not sure i'm having the same response you i'm telling you listen to this man he's fucking i think it's good i think it's good in terms of like oratory okay but i don't know if i'm gonna run to a brick all right we'll see what happens eventually he sits in the chair and now milton green starts the exorcism and milt had to think that authority was volume

because he is screaming at the devil and he is screaming at ever foul tormenting spirit he's yelling at lust bondage rejection compulsion he's yelling at everything and i'm thinking dear god dear god i hope these walls are thick i said dear god i said that man is talking to the devil and i'm the only one in the room i said god what if my friends find out what if the preachers find out well i did i guess i maybe didn't realize that he's talking about an exorcism yeah i thought he was just sitting in a chair yeah yeah there's a little bit of that okay neither of them actually believe in the exorcism that that elevates the story a little oh wait they don't no that is there is that the reveal that they all think it's bullshit no later on milton green guess what he becomes

a televangelist they are working together uh and uh here is here is the way he's he's just killing with this story yeah these people are eating it up and then he ends it with this fucking kicker and i'm speaking to about a hundred preachers in florida and as i began to close like i am now all of a sudden a man got up from the back and he came running down to the front and he walked over to the side of the room and he grabbed a chair and he walked right up beside me and he slammed it down and he said here you in a chair and a man prayed for you my deacon paved my way to come 600 miles to get here he said here's the care here i am set me free set me free and every preacher in the room fell on their face all around him set us free set us free set us free

guys got the chair yeah he has the power of the chair now uh this the story is uh just him getting his demons exercised right and then later on he goes to a conference and people all bring their own chair to him because now he has the power to exercise demons right this whole thing is that long journey there and it is he fucking demolishes this room i'd like to see this guy on card sharks he would be amazing on card sharks uh so james robison is a fascinating guy right and then his son randy roads from quiet right quiet right absolutely so i was looking into james robison and he's a contemporary of chris well uh wait so dad was contemporary with the spiritual dad of there you go i forgotten the main person's name

robert jeffers yeah so many god there's a few names yeah i am i'm talking about four guys right the first generation and the second you know it's not i jeffers is the one that i am aware of already and that's the name i couldn't remember that's the name you can't remember clogging my brain with with card sharks and preachers and dusty roads references i'm telling you baptist preachers will get to your head it's hard to be in your seat too much to juggle yeah i know tell me about it uh the the inverse is also true um so robison is tell me i'm telling me it's hard to get through information when someone interrupts you we do this once again right uh yeah um robison is coming up in the world of conservative charismatic preachers

james okay dad this is way back right contemporary of chris wells right chris wells older right james is coming up i got you james is becoming because james is the fucking preacher he's the preachers preacher you know he's the guy kind of guy who's got like a multiple rags to mop his bra oh yeah oh yeah and he's killing it somehow i imagine him being in a brother where art down basically yeah no so close to that and his early career is just that like he's hustling he's going from place to place getting find in little things to jump in and get more famous off find places where people have chairs right stuff like that yeah um like uh then sometime in the mid eighties or so he stops doing it uh he doesn't stop preaching but he stops trying to climb the

conservative christian ranks and he just kind of almost settles and creates a modest tv empire he creates the life that alex wants or the like sort of the sustainable jim baker absolutely okay yeah he's not he's not screwing anybody over he's trying he's not being a good guy in the sense of like you know doing anything uh too positive he's got a charity that by all accounts and purposes is is okay you know it's not a scam but it's not like the best but also might be a scam well i mean the charity watching people like that have okay evaluated it and said it's not a i apologize for casting aspersions no no problem uh and he just kind of creates this stable modern tv empire he's got multiple talk shows he preaches he he's not trying to get too big

he's he's got a everything that he wants and he stays just like a little under the radar like you don't know about him right i'm like james robison not uh not off the top of my head no worldwide people all over the world watching me he's got his own channel like all of this and he again since the 80s for some for whatever reason has lived this life that suggests he believes what he's talking about now just like chis well created jeffers you correctly noted it that james robison created his son randy roads well literally yeah absolutely but randy is not a preacher randy is not a televangelist like he's a guitarist for quiet right no dammit that'd be funny randy is a bit of a doof

he's he's a nice guy i'm kind of obsessed with him i really am he has his own like internet talk show on james robison's network and it feels exactly like a televangelist giving his kind of a doof son a talk show okay it gets down right chris farley show at times like you'll you'll like his guests okay he's he does mainly like you know reformed born again questions that kind of sure he has he has that kind of interview and of course if somebody famous becomes a born again question you get welcome to life today i'm randy robison i have the heartbreak kid for you wrestling fans you know exactly who i'm talking about because shawn michaels was the face of the wwe for many years if anybody follows wrestling you know who

this is shawn welcome to life today thank you very much for that you know what you are a real son of a bitch and let me explain to you why why did you watch this video no okay because you um you have introduced shawn michaels to the proceedings and you didn't include his get the fuck down you didn't include his theme song i'm sorry i'm sorry i do not listen to shawn michaels i think i'm cute i know i'm sexy i've got the look all right drive the girls why i've got the mood they're really moving since you're up and down and i'm just a sexy boy all right i'm not your boy toy it's great it's the best that is the attitude area yeah you know

who sings that randy wrote shawn michaels no he does not yeah he does not sing oh shit that's hilarious the best now that's not my fault randy should have been playing that theme song percent if you're introducing shawn michaels you got to have that that's bullshit if you can have stone cold on your theme yeah on your show yeah and you introduce him that glass has got to break it's got to break yeah absolutely that's that's poor showmanship well i mean shawn michaels is now a reformed born again christian so i don't know if you know about his tag team match that he had with vince mcman uh at i can't remember what pay per view like recently no it was a long time ago it was in the like maybe sometime in the two thousands uh but when shawn michaels became a born again

christian it became sort of a thing in the storyline that vince was mocking because vince had this megaloman i ankle i'm more important than god kind of thing yeah and so vince and i can't remember who his tag team partner was but they had a tag team match with shawn michaels and shawn michaels tag team partner was god the literal god well they did have was it invisible they had to have a spotlight i don't remember i was wrestling is great sometimes it's great you just got to admit it one of the more goofy things that i mean as shawn michaels is like you know i've definitely you know coming to the faith yeah allowing it to be portrayed that way and television is seems very weird hilarious um but yeah i mean he was a dude who had like some drug problems and yeah yeah totally

it's one of those things like that's a pretty good route for him to go down as opposed to dying right so of course he wrote a book and he goes on randy robison show he wrote a book yeah probably about how he's a sexy boy there it is not it is uh all of it's this interview is really boring but it has one of my my favorite like i've watched so many all of randy's interviews are incredibly boring even when they're interesting but he is a genuinely curious person who's also a bit of a dupe like this is him asking shawn michaels a big question uh what is sweet chin music close you remember the arena where you said goodbye to everybody i knew it was in phoenix that phoenix arena you said something struck me in that whole bit one for one you were obviously touched

you know uh you're you're ending a significant time of your life uh you're thanking the fans you made a statement you said the only time i like me was when i was out here in other words you made me like me yes when i was what it what does that what does that mean well you know i that's you're being unfair i love that question it's a pretty decent question i know that's what i'm saying i love this guy doofy no i'm just the way he goes i mean he probably could have framed it a little better what does that mean yeah yeah it is a little direct yeah um no that's that's a chris farley show question yeah for sure that's what i'm saying yeah he's a little bit of a doof but he's a genuine guy he seems really

nice i would have preferred to ask what it meant when shawn michaels lost his smile he's not sharing that curiosity damn michaels super kicking people yeah sweet chin music great great finishing move shawn michaels has what was that sweet chin music no oh yeah it's a bit kicked to the chin yeah but what he would do is you'd be like coming you'd get knocked down on this side of the ring uh he'd be would you get up again you'd be getting up you'd be struggling to get up and as you're slowly getting up he'd be in the corner at the turnbuckle and he'd stomp his foot like a bull like a bull to give like the audience like you know it's coming okay they call that tuning up the band no tune up the band and then hit you with the sweet chin music and

then right when you were finally standing up that's when the kick would come right right to your right to your chin and then just a sexy boy it's a good theme song it i turned the corner on it i used to think it was pretty lame yeah i was younger i i i hesitate to give you my opinion uh i don't know i i he he showed up at a wrestle mania a couple years back out of nowhere and uh boy i celebrated pretty huge yeah that theme song came on in a way that i didn't even expect myself to i'm not even a huge john michael's fan interesting gets you excited nostalgia yeah yeah definitely absolutely um well just like it like the reason that he has shown michael's and and those types of guests on there is probably a bunch of wrestlers uh not that many wrestlers there's a lot of uh

ones who have come around to like being pretty religious really yeah that makes sense yeah like lex luther not like lex lex luther lex luger was on the seven hundred club okay and i i almost did an episode i think i might have done like a half episode well isn't kane born again now too no he's a libertarian and a mayor of right right right right right right i can't remember the city but he's uh the million dollar man to ted debiase yeah was on the seven hundred club there's been a number of wrestlers who have come on like pat robertson's show so i just would have assumed that maybe this guy just cycles through wrestlers it might be uh i didn't see too many uh with wrestlers but that one was funny and i'm going to go look through his guest list and there's

going to be a bunch of people like sure you didn't realize tugboat was a pro wrestler that's probably true yeah yeah if they're not using because they might not even have used their stage names on his episode urwin p shyster when r shyster i r s i r s yeah oh man he was a tax guy of course he was yes naturally i think i got it i think i guessed that on a wrestler cpa's man cpa's man i really derail you i apologize no no you're doing great uh it's but the reason that he has like guys like shon michael's on is because he fancies himself something of a bad boy oh he's a boy he's a little bit not your boy a little bit this is the type of shit that he really wants to get into in green bay wisconsin and he's got a new book called battle over yes the battle over rules and he's

going to talk about that on life today check that out at life today dot org but for this particular interview you're fortunate enough to be watching the bonus interviews where we can go out of the bounds a little bit we're going to discuss the topic that was rejected for the broadcast show because it was just a little over the lines and i've got a prop here we're going to talk about and i did not tell him this we're going to talk about the bead method yes this is your own this is your this is your we actually pitch that to your i didn't know that yeah you did and i'm sure that we got shot down they said no we're not going to discuss that is this anal beads close to really yeah oh shit yeah so i thought i was going to say that it was going to be a joke and to be like no

it's crafting or something like that okay no dude actually straight up on okay that is a little bit edgy for this christian television station absolutely yeah he definitely he gets away with saying like we're gonna do something a little fucked up because it is well it's not quite anal beads it's a it's a it's in a marriage this this pastor has this idea of like okay we all want to we all need to have sex right but it's tough to have sex when you're older and sometimes people don't want to do it so we created this bead method which is like a barter system like here here's some beads now we fuck for a while then you're done i'm out yeah exactly also not that ribbled anymore this isn't that exciting no not to his controversial this is just transactional

yeah sex within within a marriage you nailed it is bad and that subject was rejected for the broadcast show i would reject that too of course from my own show but he's just obsessed with being this like kind of a bad boy right in this in this world like so he of course has written a shit ton of books like everybody else in this world but unlike most people one of his books was fiction uh it's called skava or i don't know how to pronounce it it's s c e v a and here is the blurb for it that was let me see if you can find out who who wrote this blur for okay in this supernatural thriller the seven deadly sins threatened to destroy the lives of seven bible college students after an ill advised attempt to cast a demon out of a man now you can read the

book praised by publishers as quote intense a great read and quote strong writing but rejected for being too edgy for christian readers who wrote the review who do you think i have two guesses okay first guess no uh dad no it was him oh he wrote his own blurb yeah yeah yeah of course you do a question i kind of love him i also would have guessed uh the host of card sharks but i could remember who i was i think it was uh oh man now i can't remember uh bill it's like a bill mitchell something along those lines bill mitchell's a q and on yeah yeah a different bill but this guy uh and uh robert jeffers are both second generation televangelist yeah and my god damn it that's that's so weird to think about isn't it yeah that's a legacy business uh huh yeah i mean

it makes sense it just took me back for a second to think like you know hearing about one of them yeah that is whatever but like here multiple like even think about like well i mean jude bakers kids are all we're announcing exactly that's not the same thing as like running their own thing right that's yeah hmm stuff that's tough it's weird yeah it's gross um and it's in within these but it's also very similar to how wrestling works a lot of second generation third generation wrestlers this is all tv right like any any or any comparison to tv is what these guys are all tv creation sure um and their eyes are all for tv and stuff like that and it's between these two second generation televangelists that i try and explain the question why does the religious

right support trump no matter what why is that because i see that article written 300 million times over and over and over again right why are these supposedly moral upstanding people supporting a monster like trump uh it doesn't make any sense to people and i will give you these two characters two second generation televangelists to try and explain it away randy roads and uh robert jeffers jeffers yeah all right um so one of them the bad boy yes one of them the pristine article exactly huh yeah you know what which one do you think is worse though probably the pristine article yeah yeah absolutely what do you what do you feel about randy so far i mean everybody was hanging out with sean michaels can't be all bad he's not a bad guy i don't

know i that's not actually true sean michael says some pretty shitty friends mostly wrestlers yeah um i don't know i i can't really get a sense of him from the like limited amount of information i have i mean i know like his dad seems to be a guy who likes to have exorcisms on chairs and is a like a classic old school classic huckster type preacher but i mean he seems to perform the sins of the father aren't bestowed upon the son in my in my conception so right yeah i don't know i don't i don't i i got i got no idea i need more information well as far as his vocal patterns and all that stuff goes he seems way less gifted he's way less gifted yeah again compared to these other guys but at the same time he's talking like a person yes so there's a you know it's not as

gifted in the genre right but there is more of a there's also a relatability about someone who speaks like well what about this thing that you know like people like that totally there's a lot of people who talk real fucking stupid on podcasts to people like oh yeah yeah no and i like him i i genuinely do i i mean i don't know what he's like in his private life but everything that i see through all of this stuff is just him like he's just a guy he's a guy who believes in all of this christian stuff and he's struggling within this confines there's this like constant push and pull with him between what he is told by mainstream conservative christians like dr robert jeffers and what he thinks is a moral stance he doesn't he doesn't believe in the same god that richard jeffers

believes in not even close they are of course friends and randy basically agrees with everything that robert jeffers says but anytime you get that little bright spot of him like well i don't think we should be evil to gay people but you like it's that over and over and over again these little bits of him coming really close to saying like i i don't believe what you believe and then just being like well you do you sound right let's go uh that kind of thing this uh the reason that i'm talking about these two guys is because i came upon uh randy putting out a live stream entitled does evil reign which is based on an interview he recently did with uh dr jeffers oh i thought it was with uh shown michael i thought it was with the acolytes it's

actually randy roads uh it was with gangrel it was a literal vampire demon from what what you know about gangrel how would i know about gangrel he's a literal vampire for wrestling yeah kayfabe i understand that i would spit blood at people the vampire tea all right gangrel he he uh he came around he was a vampire and he would you know the lights would go out and then there'd be like candles and flames sure sure rise out of the on the stage right he he was hanging out with originally the brood and i was edging christian right there is two sort of enforcers okay edging christian who later on went to have their own oh absolutely very successful very successful dudes tag team and both world champions on their own right of course and they were they

fucked around and then edging christian were with gangrel and then they left and then matt and jeff hardy became the new brood yeah hung out with gangrel and then everyone's like we shouldn't hang out with gangrel that guy is lame that's not good he thinks he's a vampire i wish wrestling went like that just wrestlers they just suddenly started they broke kayfabe the moment that it was time to well you keep half kayfabe yeah yeah still your own character but like i don't think that guy's a vampire if they just introduce that new wrinkle i've never seen him drink blood that's that's that's like in that's like an oceans twelve when julia roberts plays a character that looks like julia roberts where they're like you're fucking with me and i

don't like that introduction of like half reality is worse than yeah yeah yeah yeah how dare you tell me that you think he might not be a vampire we all know that yeah i think it might be fun though that would be fun only only in the world of kayfabe yeah if the you were to disagree though you would probably have a better conversation than the way that randy disagrees here oh yeah this is randy introducing the idea of disagreeing with dr jeffers and it's not real nice when you invite people into your uh facility onto your show and you just argue with them it's good it's kind of rude at the flip side of that is if they say something that i disagree with and i don't say anything people assume that i'm in agreement with them

and so i'm always having to measure okay does that rise to the level that i need to say something and if you watch closely you'll see sometimes when they say something i might i might politely push back and say you know is it this or is it this and you know and that sounds like an adult yep yeah that just seems like a yep he's a nice guy this is him politely like going through this he's like i'm doing a show i don't want to be uh ungracious but at the same time if i disagree with somebody i want to be polite and then i'm going to measure whether or not i need to say something and if i don't say anything he's recognizing that there is like a tacit understanding that the audience has they're like well you must agree with it otherwise you would

have said something absolutely that's like recognizing your responsibilities yeah listen to that yeah isn't that refreshing i don't know if it's refreshing it feels refreshing to me it's very different yeah yeah uh now this is him uh going out of his way to even when he does disagree with robert jeffers to point out that he's like i don't want to offend anybody i don't want to do any just know that i mean zero disrespect to to dr jeffers as i offer you an alternate view of things but i want to bring his view because it is probably the dominant view in evangelical churches right now um and and the other thing is i'm not convinced that i'm 100 percent right all the time i feel like i'm constantly learning which is why i love having

all these people in here and getting to kind of tap their brains and sometimes i'll push on some of the uh more difficult issues because i'm sitting there learning and i think that that's good for an audience to watch and learn that's pretty humble yep now who are we talking about in contrast with that guy the guy who has never been wrong once in his entire life talk about jeffy babes oh yeah this is what jeffers sounds like on that on this show well i don't know what you drive i don't know if you the stereotypical text thing is a pickup truck so let's just say you have a pickup i'm guessing you don't have one of those coexist bumper stickers my wife actually almost got me one is a joke because if there is anything this is the opposite of my worldview it's that coexist

so she almost put it on my bottle it's a joke yeah it's a joke yeah his worldview is the opposite of coexist he is 100 right about everything he has no interest in your opinion he has no interest in anything you have to say that is why he is so dangerous and evil and that is also why randy is a different person right randy is humble and curious he wants to know he has his own opinions but at the same time he's always trying to learn yeah that is the difference between these this is the the war in christianity as far as i see it and it is being won by robert jeffers like and and again randy has won me over like here's randy talking about the a certain difference in philosophy he has with robert jeffers okay so he starts with the csls quote which i love csls

and he points out that we are in a battle well we if you don't know this by now then i'll just tell you we are in a battle we're in a spiritual battle we don't wrestle against flesh and blood it's a common mistake i think that people make even christians thinking that oh you over there you're my enemy no um no it's it's spiritual okay right but i i think a lot of people take that to be like it's a spiritual battle and i'm against your spirit right right right absolutely i don't feel like that's what he's saying but that same those same words delivered slightly differently yep uh are exactly what you hear from alex yep but it doesn't have the same feeling and also i want to say this he doesn't like csls i heard that so much background church

none of those assholes ever read mere christianity the problem of pain no none of those mother fuckers are reading csls they went they went they read out of the silent planet once and they called it a day they read a couple of fucking paragraphs and they're like good enough oh i like the lie in the witch in the wardrobe because i understand it deeper because i read all this other no you didn't get the fuck out of here k life leader and read shit christians love to fucking believe that this guy christians love to say they love csl i'm nitpicking because i do appreciate the tone and what i what i see from him yeah in there but i still don't believe that you like csls i don't know that shit is dense i'm not fun have you ever read that out of the silent planet

trilogy no no i've i've read a number of his uh like non um lie in the witch in the wardrobe uh work his essays and yeah but not not that i'm not i'm unaware of that oh man the the second book in that trilogy is essentially a retelling of genesis uh but it's adam and eve on venus oh and uh it is essentially a retelling of genesis and it is so much longer and so much more boring it is incredible i amazed myself whenever i read it because i it's so boring and then the third book weird to have a space religion be more boring yeah i know right yeah right and then the third book is just unreadable it's awful but i think that's kind of the same with like even the lie in the witch in the wardrobe once like no one read past like the maybe man voyage of the dawn

treta was actually a really good book i remember loving that book no one read a horse in his boy i read a horse i read all i read off silver chair i don't know if oh man silver chair is terrible most people didn't read all all of them right just like yeah i love a fucking turkish delight yeah yeah good see now that's the thing i was one of those kids in church who loved c s louis because i'd read all of his lie in the witch in the voyage of the dawn treta is like the second one right it's the fourth third i want to say it's i can't remember the order prince caspians the second one prince caspians the second one silver chair maybe silver chair might be five i don't want to say it's five last battle is a second in the truth

but yeah listen to the way this dude is is putting everything it is this this idea of like he is he is hearing the same words that jeffers is saying just like you put it you know you say it a little bit differently and it's exactly what alex says right but he's he means it in the i don't know a more genuine way i hear what he's saying when he's saying it's a spiritual battle meaning within your own spirit yeah you are having a uh like it is a the test is within all of us and you have a responsibility to fight this battle within yourself to rise to the occasion absolutely that's the battle when i hear alex talk about we do not fight against flesh and blood it's a spiritual battle i hear him saying kill that person because there's a demon in him you got it yeah

that's yep it's a big difference but it is the same intrinsic idea right or not intrinsic idea it's the same words being used to express different things absolutely yeah that's that's exactly it but i don't see i uh i feel like i'm hearing this and maybe i have way too generous an opinion of this dude because it's the way you're presenting it i'm worried about that but i'm trusting you i mean well dan i i mean i guess it's i guess it's easier uh to have a negative opinion of somebody with very little information about them than to have a positive opinion with only if i mean you just told me about this guy and right you buttered me up by having the sean michaels i know i know this could be a trap it could be i as far as i can tell like he believes here's here's my here's

my thing about him and this is the thing that i i was really struggling with while i was i was thinking of this idea which is like i've known my parents i know that they do not want people in cages at the border but i don't understand how they can justify it to themselves and i know that randy is that same type of christian that i like i can hear it in everything he says and everything he's does i've watched all of those over and over again he's the your parents version of christian exactly he is that person and i think i think the large majority of christians i think the large majority of them do not want that right but they are trapped they are trapped by guys like dr robert jeffers and and here's here's another thing here's what's gonna

endear you to randy i think a little bit more he's live streaming this uh so there are people in the twitch chat oh sure and he's on twitch yeah that's weird yeah there are people in the twitch chat i see like playing uh dark souls let's see a little bit he might be i guess yeah i was gonna say uh but again this is how this dude responds to trolls showing up in his chat welcome all you trolls on twitch i see you guys out there and uh you're welcome to listen that's why i'm on twitch you're not going to buy well yeah he's a nice guy well i mean like also that even if he wasn't a nice guy that's the right move exactly yeah trolls are going to come up more frequently they're always going to exist and you know like if you just have that approach

then like people don't get a rise out of you they don't get what they want and you just yell at somebody and you're gonna end up uh attracting like it's fun we could poke him yeah i'm on him for knowing that at least or even if it's just like instinctual knowing that right good on him he continues to deal with trolls throughout the live stream and it is it is very funny how how like i i just i just don't know how more just like a kind of like general doofy good dude could react than the way that he does it's just like this general sense of a guy who's just like i'm satisfied with my life i'm trying to do what i think is right and you guys are being mean and you know what it's your right to be mean and i understand and i like he's doing that whole thing and then later on he gets

into my my favorite recurring bit on his show is he writes books sure and no one knows about it and no one has read them and no one really believes that he writes them so in so many of these interviews you wind up having a situation like this where he does this interview when he when he dinged the idea of happiness that i said well you haven't read my book called god wants you to be happy and he laughed because he thought i was joking because i do joke i'm not joking i wrote a book called god wants you to be happy now you know it'd be a great bit what if you had never written a book yeah and he's like ever thinks i'm joking about right but that's the joke right right that would be awesome this happens like three or four like in i watched a maybe five maybe ten of these

do you have any insight on why no one believes you wrote a book i don't know no i don't know if anybody's ever actually published it physically and i sure i mean but a lot of people self published and i definitely don't think anybody knows about this kind of a publishing outlet yeah so you probably publish it maybe it's not it's not good but this happens there's an interview with another a woman who wrote super that's super weird as an accusation or like how much do you think of that is actually people thinking he hasn't written a book and how much is him being insecure about his book sales think so much both that other people don't think he's written a book it happens over and over and over it's very weird he brought it up on one interview

this woman wrote a book about how christian women need to understand that men like to look at women and that it's not a bad thing and that interview gets weird and horny and brandy is like i'm glad i'm not a teenager anymore like doing all kinds of weird stuff in there and then eventually he's he's like oh happiness i wrote about happiness in my book god wants to be happy yeah and she just goes i'm sorry what you did no i wrote a book about happening oh over and over and over again this happens in almost every interview it is very funny so yeah the disagreement that randy and robert have is on happiness that's what randy is saying that it's about right here he wrote a book called god wants you to be happy robert does not even i don't even

know if robert believes in happiness this kind of thing that's the fundamental god certainly does not want it right right uh now randy is a doofy guy who just wants to live and let live and this is the type of stuff he does agree with this is how he deals with trolls and that kind of shit we've known these christians unfortunately belinda says she takes pleasure in looking at flowers and you know i'll tell you something interesting i studied the reformation a bit because i didn't really get that education in school and one thing that that the catholics and those who were protesting the catholic church didn't argue about because they agreed on it was that god reveals himself through nature so belinda i 100 percent agree with you um i take pleasure and in the

mountains you know i love the snow ski and i stand up there and if you're at the keystone or breckard you can see the continental divide for miles and miles and miles and i'm like this is the most beautiful temple in the world god's creation so yes 100 judy he might already see s lewis yeah yeah maybe i was wrong to judge too harshly yeah because i mean that is that is true that is that is a belief of you know like if you've never heard the name of christ and you'd recognize him through nature yeah that is salvation you know that is good enough right is a position that a lot of schools of christianity have held right and he's getting he's getting a little bit trolled with like a oh i like nature like that maybe maybe i didn't interpret that as a troll

that's what i'm saying i thought that that might be a sincere comment that someone was making i like to look at flowers i think i i think i think that honestly is very no no no someone might say right right right no i i think i think that i the reason i think that is i think belinda pops up later on okay yeah i don't know the context so i'm sorry my bad uh this is before belinda pops in but that's that's what he's doing he's he's very simple he's he's doing that this is what we agree on and here's where we disagree and there are more trolls coming in here and i'm getting trolled hard today this is funny it's about time the trolls have left me alone for way too long okay so here's the part where dr jefferson i have a disagreement and this is where i want your your input

constructive input please i'll just ignore it if it's uh just trolling but um and this is it kind of goes to eschatology in other words how we view the future and the dominant in the evangelical churches is a futuristic view in other words things are going to get worse and worse and worse before they get better and this is where i i actually just don't don't agree i was raised that way but i don't agree anymore and we're going to get into it and yeah so he doesn't he doesn't believe in the the progression towards good right the downward progression to sharp up tick exactly that's good randy is a chill chill guy and he's pretty but like he sounds so much bob rossy to me like so much of that just like i like to look at the

mountains like that kind of the greatest temple yeah yeah absolutely the religious show bob ross yeah yeah basically and what he is getting to is that when he says that eschatology is the fundamental disagreement he's not even getting to the reality of it uh they have no shit this is the fundamental disagreement and he thinks it's just them disagreeing about happiness to like because he allegedly wrote a book about it right i have not read it you may not have written it might not exist it might not exist i went to his website and it's there you can buy it on amazon yeah but i don't know that you didn't go through to the cart i'm not going to buy the cart but he thinks they're talking about happiness he thinks they're talking about happiness and

whether or not you're supposed to be happy or you're supposed to wait until god you know replaces the world or whatever right what they are actually talking about is the literal replacement of the world like here is dr jeffers this is what his argument is on the the side of eschatology this world is not the world as god intended it to be and this world is not the world that it will always be there is a new world coming but until that time evil is going to have rain over this world i'm sure i mean that sounds like a lot of the religious things right right now this is the imperfect meat world sure sure the difference here is what we get back into the words can mean different things dr jeffers is not talking about how the you know eventually the world

satan's gonna rain and then god will replace the world and all this stuff yeah jeffers is actually talking about how he wants to replace the world he chris wells idea of a christian separatist compound the main goal of that was to create a completely separate christian world right that would eventually grow to be the world exactly yeah now he could not do that and what he realized was that that was not possible and it wasn't going to be possible to be left alone unless you are the only thing so he created dr jeffers and this is the reason that i find him so terrifying is and it goes back to randall randall balmer wrote an article in politico about the creation of the christian separatist movement and how people always talk about roe v wade as

being the inciting factor to getting the christian right to mobilize and and turn into what they are totally inciting right but yeah what it was born out of though was the court decision in green v kennedy which later became green v connelly when connelly became the secretary of treasury this happened about five to ten years before roe v wade the situation boils down to this if you segregate your private schools you do not get tax exempt status that's it right the end and the goal for chris well whether or not it was racial segregation the goal has always been to completely segregate christians away from everything else so they took that idea of they're going to make us become public schools and they turned that with jerry

fall well and bob jones and all of those guys into this and then they teamed up with way rich is burgeoning heritage foundation all of these guys turn into what the right is today all of it just like knee jerk and awful reactions to notions of civil rights right with one main goal and that is creating a completely white christian theocracy that is the purpose of this and that is what jeffers was raised to do so when he starts talking about how uh you know we we the this world is not the world of god like that kind of stuff and we need he's not talking about waiting for god to come back and he's not talking about the world of god either he wants his world yeah absolutely it is interesting um i don't know how much of it is just like it like intrinsic suspicion of things

but like it does feel different like even even without your presentation i think i would hear him say those things jeffers say those things differently than randy roads right um but it's robison what i disagree it's it's interesting it's it's it's it's i think what it speaks to is the like um the inherent neutrality of religion itself like because these people are both expressing like really religious ideas oh yeah and one of them is expressing with them in a way that's like yeah all right yeah and the other one saying fairly similar kinds of things like oh no that are 180 degrees yeah yeah it's about what's packaged on it right that really is the the what becomes a problem right and randy is absolutely of like they're both raised second generation televangelists

they both have this incredibly intense religious education both of them can toss out anytime they all have that uh uh televangelist way of talking where it's like say words words words words Hebrews 9 18 words where were you know that that whole thing they can all pull quotes from from memory neither one of them has any greater command of the bible than the other and both of them say almost exactly the same thing and both of them disagree on everything and randy is the only one who doesn't know it that's the thing that fascinates me about all this so basically the disagreement they're having is that dr jeffers wants to get rid of this i like you're giving him the honorific i i mean he's a doctor he's got a doctor yeah i i don't know i i go back

and forth between just calling him robert jeffers or dr bobby big bob um but yeah to your point i find him so terrifying because the guy who is trying to be the bad boy is calm quiet humble caring and the guy who is the pristine never been in trouble always enthusiastic that guy waving around and so happy all the time is a tool created by a guy who wants to build a christian theocracy yeah and so now he is that perfect tool for trump it is almost like jeffers was created by chris well to be used by the first fascist dictator that could that could show up in order to solidify the christian right and because jeffers is a genuine and brilliant and real and trump is a lying piece of shit jeffers is going to trick trump essentially into

creating it as a christian fascist dictatorship instead of just a regular one he is terrifying his side of christianity is literally the world is we need to end the world in order to create our world uh and then on the other side you have randy robison dealing with trolls uh loving his life and this is this is just like i i listened to this clip and i was just like this is the guy that i think of whenever i think of like the christianity that i i somewhat admire a little bit like listen to this charlie charlie says that satan rules because charlie cannot spell satan um and he's telling me god doesn't exist here's your problem charlie you might as well tell me my wife doesn't exist satan does rule satan rules because you don't know how to spell say he doesn't even have that

like he doesn't even have that you don't know it's just you don't know how to spell satan yeah it's not even a dunk yeah like hey hey you're trying to tell me god isn't real tell that to my wife like it's it's so much just this benign kind of this guy it's even that like the way you were saying that is a z yeah it's still no he's not even doing that he's just trying to say like yeah god exists in the same way my wife does yeah learn to spell yeah he's he's just a nice guy i think to me like in my experience because i've spent so much time in in christian worlds and so of you i know jeffers i've seen that guy everywhere but the large majority of people that i've met in so many congregations is randy i would agree with that that kind of thing and so whenever people

talk about uh why is it uh that uh i you know christians follow trump i see it as a function of this kind of sism yeah absolutely and the guy who trained the fascist was maybe the best uh televangelist at the time and the guy who trained the chill guy his dad was the guy who like just sort of kept a low profile exactly did his business yep yep why you're bumming me out yeah i know right and it's not because they're it jeffers is so good at using the same words that christians use to mean positive things and twisting them into something horrific all the while believing it's good like that's why he's such a powerful tool is because chris well got him at such a young age and controlled every aspect of his life and i'm sure you know yada yada yada whatever about

his own motivations but it's fairly clear that if you're if you're captured by chris well and taken under his wing personally at seven years old you're not going to be unaffected by that yeah it's going to be a tough uh course correction yeah at very least yeah absolutely and and they're not fully developed and you're being you know bombarded with a lot of like really heavy stuff it's going to be hard to process the stuff that's coming in in addition to adolescents growing up yep yeah yeah i mean yeah that's a bummer yeah and it's from the guy who's the best at it like chris well is a brilliant cult leader to the point like the closest um the closest like analog analog for chris well and jeffers that i can think of

is elrond hubbard and miss cabbage like that's the type of shit we're dealing with right here jeffers believes all of this to the point where it's indistinguishable from from reality like it's it's amazing to me um but most people like and here's the here's what i'm saying again with randy kind of having that sense of i know something's not right here but i don't know why i'm fighting it like in this in this clip right here in the futurist view we believe that a a new world is coming jesus will come and set up his kingdom on earth and then there will be no more evil here's my question for you guys uh and and here's the uh disagreement uh that that i would have with the futurist view which dr jeffers does hold to um and and that is when i look at what jesus

did and his work on the cross um i believe that he gave us everything we need to establish his kingdom here on okay his kingdom here on earth is already ready to go yep yep randy wants to make the world a better place randy thinks we have the tools to make the world a better place huh well i mean i guess that is the difference and def the definition of like what the promise of the cross was yeah is the promise the already fulfilled in the act of the crucifixion and resurrection or is it contingent on some future of that yeah that does seem to be um a profound difference yeah absolutely of opinion i don't know it that's tough i mean i'm always down for the the religion uh that takes the shape of things that will create a better world for everybody

um so i mean without knowing any of the other stuff that he believes because i really feel like there might be stuff i don't know about that's really no no no here's the thing though that's again that gets to my point exactly i i will guarantee no i know randy believes in obviously like conservative right wing bullshit he will say it he'll repeat it and it's just so clear to me that what underpins his beliefs have him saying that stuff in order to stay in lock step with the people that he thinks are his teachers all of these all of these people goes into that kind of second generation televangelists the difference between them is randy is like he was raised in this he knows the language he knows what he's supposed to believe and there's a part of him

that is fighting against it there's a part of him somewhere that's like i know it's bad to do this but i'm told by guys i respect guys who are the kings of the world the leader of the biggest of the first megachurch right now he's telling me that this is what we have to say this is what we have to believe that kind of shit i mean was it chris well or uh jeffers who started their speech off by saying uh the evils of liberal that was chris that's chris well yeah so he taught jeffers and he wasn't necessarily the mentor for randy roads so it makes sense i mean like the the rejection of liberalism and the rejection of like a humanist perspective is going to ultimately lead towards

not recognizing a united society absolutely like a it's going to always air towards utopianism in the future of like we're going to create this this perfect thing right once this liberalism where people have freedom of choice and they can sin they're allowed to sin once we're free of that yeah it would make sense that that dude the dude who is is sort of mentored by that guy would be far more down that side yeah than than someone else and he's far more effective like this is this is what's what's amazing to me is that jeffers is trained as a weapon jeffers was weaponized from a young age and it's very clear that randy was just raised in the church like that is so much the difference to me between the two of them uh jeffers is here to remake all of christianity

in chris well's image and randy is here because his dad is a televangelist and he got a little gig and he got a little gig and he talked to char michael oh and here's the other thing like randy's on randy's website which is very cute it is essentially an angel fire page it's it's very funny he has these little like devotionals and stuff that he's written before there's like five things that he's written almost all of them are about tv he just loves tv he's he's like here's how we can make christian tv shows you watch tv shows and when they're christian you're like these tv shows suck yeah here's what we can do to make them better and that kind of stuff this guy just wants to work in tv he has no idea like he just he just loves tv and shit like that's what he

was raised up loving he's go hook up with jim baker absolutely and i i i i think randy sums up my views on jeffers pretty easily right here craig says satan is a bully hundred percent and here's the thing you got to know he's a liar he's full of crap can i can i say that i just did um that's cute that's the bad boy yeah that's a randy the rebel can i he's crap can i say that can i say that on twitch god i know randy i know so many randy's yeah he seems quaint yeah he's very cute yeah he's dumb and he's going to get eaten alive by dr jeffers every fucking time i mean probably yeah i mean if there's if there ever is call for a head to head confrontation this was as close to the call for a head to head confrontation as you can get when was this from a couple weeks ago

okay yeah yeah so uh we're stated like your eyes on this space exactly yeah yeah develop a story might have to do a part two on that um yeah i don't know this this is interesting i don't know what i think about this i i get criticized a lot for not being like more aggressively atheist in my position yeah and like anti-religion yeah though my background would suggest i should be right as is yours right and you heard me a very stringent anti-atheist uh slowly and gently or very stringent atheist not anti-atheist slowly and gently fall in love with the bob ross of christianity right like this guy is is what i've always thought that christianity like wants to be and he is in thrall that's what i think of uh as far as you subscribe to his twitch i'm guessing

no i thank god no absolutely not he's so boring i swear i'm he is so boring that's because he didn't say horrible things he's that's what i'm saying that's why he loses right it's why he loses like and it's it's why i mean we go back to the wrestling thing like it's why heels are often more like exciting than faces yeah you know like the good guys are often kind of dopey and like and a little bit boring whereas the the characters that are allowed in the bad guy right person are always a little bit more they have an edge to them they're more interesting but they're assholes and you want to see them get beat by the good guy eventually yeah that's how you make the money right but what if uh you're the asshole you're the heel who says all the interesting things you

get so much press attention all the time and yet when people want to look into you and find out where you're a liar find out where you're full of shit and really explodes you and it turns out you're the sweetest kindest human being alive hmm you're incredible there's just nothing bad to say about you personally you live that life that you say that you you do like that whole thing i mean marty become both marty become the heel and the the hero marty doros is going to kick my ass but i'm sure there's a wrestling analog for that i'm sure that that character i'm sure there is i'm sure that bad guy character who's like he's actually he seems really nice yeah i'm sure that is a character and i can't think of it but yeah that's that's the thing that i think is so

attractive to christians who otherwise would never go along with such a moral bullshit is that the guy spouting a moral bullshit is living the moral life that most of the most christians can't live like most you know he's i mean are you just talking about like the prosperity aspect of a lot of these like these preachers who live these sort of largely comfortable affluent lives and they create like an image that they're it becomes aspirational almost to their to the audience and congregation right but it but see that's what i'm saying jeffers is different even from that if i wanted to talk about uh that you know we could talk about paul the white cane all day yeah like the so many dollar so many of these people joel ostin are are those guys who are selling you

something and trying to win money from the grift and i genuinely don't think jeffers is jeffers is not trying to grift anybody just political he is purely he's working on a political project absolutely jeffers is a true believer and the one thing that he truly believes in is getting rid of the rest of us and creating a white christian theocracy and he will say anything defend anything do anything to make sure that that happens well let's hope randy roads wins this i know right got your back randy yeah come on buddy let me man randy robison is so funny to me he's it most of his stuff has like a few hundred views oh yeah he's just a nice guy well i mean he's trying to enter a space that's not made for what he's doing right you know like it's uh

i like to shit on uh like dav dobbing mire for having like 35 views yeah yeah these videos but to be fair like youtube streaming isn't the place for like it's not a huge popular place for christian yeah extremism yeah necessarily so it's it's tough and twitch has got to be even more of a sort of a wasteland or a no man's land for for a religious uh sitting around chatting yeah broadcast so i mean good on him though because i mean i mean again i i'm hesitant to say anything too committal because i don't know anything about this no again but like the idea that like he's carving out a space uh on twitch that like you know no one is doing that yeah there is a place for it in terms of the like streaming platforms and if it's him doing it genuinely a better person than

uh absolutely then some monster absolutely unfortunately once he carves out that space the monsters will gravitate towards it and exploit the work he's done and then his kid will become the anti christ i think that's the only thing we can predict the only thing that we can say is for 100 percent going to be true you heard it here randy robison's kid will destroy here i mean if it skips a generation then all right no i mean that's but that's the thing all four of these televangelists absolutely hold abhorrent views sure there's no doubt in my mind yeah to varying degrees yeah exactly there is but uh james robison first started by like just going like i don't want to be part of this anymore for whatever reason i'm obsessed with chairs uh pretty much i

sound like dusty rose he's just that guy now i mean he's of course in the christian televangelist world he believes in awful shit randy robison absolutely in the christian televangelist world he believes a lot of horrible shit but when you listen to randy talk you can see that he is he doesn't want to i think there's so many people who just don't want to believe this horrible shit but they are because part of the teachings of christianity is like shut the fuck up and listen to your pastors you know it's that kind of thing so that's that's i i don't know if i fully got my point across but i feel like i did all right i think there's a lot of points and uh yeah it's i mean i think i think there's a lot of uh the like a reflection i don't know i

i would i would say that what i see from this is like two different trajectories going through time you got like one that seems to be working towards a better outcome and one that seems to be working towards a worse right right right you have but both of them believing that they're working for the better outcome yeah i think almost everybody does i mean i i think that even alex man it's hard for me to say this yeah because i'm not sure i believe it yeah i know right that's why it's so refreshing for me to study people who do believe what they're saying but at times i do think that he probably thinks he's doing what's right i agree i think i think there's there's at least a part of him that thinks that although it can't be his it can't be full whereas i think these guys probably fully

think that what they're doing is 100 right yeah yeah i'm fascinated by these guys well i think that you're always going to find that whenever the the genre is religious yeah you know i think that you're always going to find people who are more um believing that what they're doing is right when it's you take the the framework of politics and replace it with religion now granted alex is a crypto religious fascist who's hiding his religious beliefs behind political messaging right and also aliens and demons yeah and a lot of movie references yeah but there there's still like um there's still the political veneer to it that allows the like maybe i'm not committed to i can change positions right right like i can support ron paul and rand paul and then sport

trump right you can do that you can't do that with god if you're uh you know a religious person or if you're you're one of these televangelists you can't be like my candidate is god yeah well hold on sean michael's is fighting next to him another another uh you know contender has showed up and god is not doing it for me so guys you should vote for trump yeah that does make it harder doesn't it so yeah that's uh that's televangelists dan i think it's interesting i like what i've made done and this is this is what we talked about as far as me doing episodes is a after the last one with mark merano i never want to talk about mark merano again i think the feeling is mutual the same thing is true said your piece the same thing is true today of robert jeffers all right i never

want to talk about robert jeffers again maybe we open up a whole new series where you start taking on some of these televangelists that i don't want to fucking cover we've got a lot of requests for people i want you to want us to cover like rick wiles some of these i don't know who rick wiles is well maybe that's your assignment maybe we'll see what happens maybe that's the new genre of jordan take the wheel yeah yeah so this but fun thanks for bringing this to my attention i'm still a little confused um not by you but just by some of these thoughts yeah um the generations aspect is is fucking with me isn't it fascinating yeah but it really is well it's wild yeah yeah as you uh yeah it's nuts anyway so we have a website did you forget you're the host

yeah it's knowledgefight.com anyway so we have a website dad it's knowledgefight.com and we are on twitter right uh at knowledge underscore fight and you're at go to bed jordan indeed and uh we are on facebook that's right if you want to rate review subscribe all that yeah you can do that for podcasts you just heard it yeah yeah in the meantime i'm uh neil i'm leo i am the uh juiciest troll you forgot dzx claire oh shit andy and chansas you're on the air thanks for holding so alex i'm a first time caller i'm a huge fan i love your work i love you