Knowledge Fight - #673: Jordan Takes The Wheel 8

Episode Date: April 22, 2022

Today, with all the chaos brewing in Alex World, Dan needs until Monday to sort through the weeds. Thankfully, Jordan comes in for the save, with an exploration of chaos magic and ghost-clearing incantations.

I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys saying we are the bad guys knowledge fight. I need money. Andy and Kansas. Andy and Kansas. Andy and Kansas. Andy and Kansas. Andy and Kansas. Andy and Kansas. Andy and Kansas. Andy and Kansas. You're on the earth. Thanks for holding us. Hello Alex and Mr. St. Colin. I'm a huge fan. I love your work. Knowledge fight. Knowledge fight. I love you. Hey everybody. Welcome back to Knowledge Fight. I'm Dan. I'm Jordan. We're a couple dudes like to sit around where I should put the author of Celine and talk a little bit about Alex Jones. Oh indeed we are Dan. Dan. What's up? Quick question. What's your bright spot today? My bright spot today Jordan is an anti-bright

spot. It's an anti-bright spot. Yup. Uh oh. The cheers and jeers kind of thing. Uh oh. Coca Cola Starlight. Have you heard of that? No I have not. I think that's what it's called. Starshine Starlight. Starshine Starlight. Yeah. What's it called? I don't know. It's Coca Cola Star or something. Gross. I don't know what this is. What is Coca Cola selling us now? Um I believe it is the uh yeah. Coca Cola Starlight. Um it's the uh it's it's a beverage featuring a red color and a unique, unique taste quote inspired by space. I mean that's that's just mean. That what is that? I don't know. What is that? Inspired by space. This taste is just it's empty. It's empty and filled with dark matter that you don't even understand. It takes your

breath away. Absolutely. I like it. Um yeah but that kind of messaging and branding is something I it's impossible. No you're gonna yeah. Space. You're absolutely going there. But it's not like I'm not interested in what space actually tastes like. I'm like what do you think space tastes like? Yeah yeah. Gross. Do you think they went to NASA where they have those moon rocks and had one of their taste testers lick it and they were like okay I got this one now? If so I have far more questions about space. Me too. Yeah because this is I mean it's overly sweet. Yeah. Um why don't we send taste testers to space? That's a great question. I think so too. What does the dust taste like? What's it like to taste nothing? How many people would love to brag that they've

licked the moon? I mean why wouldn't you? Yeah. There's no reason not to lick the moon. Put that on your CV. Then like a buzz arm strong to get into a fight with somebody about like whether or not he's licked the moon. I bet he hasn't. I bet he hasn't. I bet he didn't have the guts to take that helmet off. Uh so what about you? What's your bright spot? My bright spot Dan is yesterday I went and got the first session of my wedding ring hand tattoo. That's right. Yeah it's really really nice. I appreciate it unfortunately the tattoo artist was having some issues. You know how I have a tremor? Uh huh. And sometimes I'll be doing some fine motor work and I'll jerk around and it'll go flying everywhere. So when you're tattooing that hurts a lot more.

Yeah. And especially on your hand. So he was having a real bad day. Well I yeah I could I could see that being uh being tough like you don't want to inflict pain on people. No no no and it's a hand tattoo. So it was intense but. And it's a hand tattoo that involves like the underside of your fingers. Yeah yeah. Sort of sensitive area there. Have you tried getting a paper cut everywhere? I've tried it. It's not great. I've tried it. I've succeeded. Oh good good for you. I'm quite good at this. Anyways it's my bright spot. Oh congratulations. Yay. So uh Jordan today we have an episode to go over. We have some stuff to talk about though and before we get into any of that let's take a little moment to say hello to some new wonks. I think that's a great idea. So first

recently I was wondering what that weird tinfoil hat where I went to college was up to. So I googled him. His name Rob Do. Thank you so much. You're now policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thank you. That was a journey. I believe that Rob Do was a theater major in college if I recall correctly. So maybe this person there we go in the theater department. Yeah. Uh next that time I shitted my pants in class as a false flag by the other third graders. Thank you so much. You're now policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thank you very much. Thank you. Next this is a long one. Uh-oh. Warning the FDA has found that consuming Alex Jones can cause drowsiness loss of appetite blurry vision mood swings and nearest pressable fits of rage. Do not operate motor vehicles or use

heavy machinery under the uh under you know how info wars affects you. If you are a loved one we need to lose this track of reality immediately administer a dose of brain force plus and lock them in a separate room for the safety of all involved before calling for emergency assistance. Thank you so much. You're now policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thank you. Pushing the boundaries. That's a real cheers and cheers kind of situation right there. That's a coax starlight. Next Neil from Blackburn UK. Thank you so much. You're now policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thank you very much. Thank you. Next Carl Barks the shepherd of Mendocino. Thank you so much. You're now a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thank you very much. And choosing virtual Russian as my

internet handle in 2005 has turned out to be a terrible decision. Thank you so much. You're now policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thank you very much. And yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. So um well where do we begin? It's been a busy week. Bad weird chaotic stressful. It's been a week. Yes. So we had planned on Sunday to leave for Austin and we were going to be there for two weeks for the trial. Two full weeks and we were going to broadcast like live reporters. I was planning to get a hat that I could put a little card in absolutely press to be the best. I was definitely going to get an old rotary phone. I had already looked up various ice cream places that don't ship to Chicago. Now I was going to I was going to enjoy the dreamy creamy summer. Yeah you're going to get to have a

two week like exploration totally. But unfortunately that trial has been postponed. Yep. Due to Alex's bankruptcy maneuvering. He owes me money for flights. Yeah. Which were not cancelable. Yeah. Yeah. I mean there's there is a small part of it that that's on you. Yeah. No I know. I should never I mean listen what what I'm going to get expensive tickets that you can refund. What how was I supposed to guess in a situation like this that something surprising would happen that would delay the trial. That's just insane. Something surprising that also you knew was a possibility from the job from the job. Yeah. So it was there was a lot of like ins and outs ups and downs with it throughout the week. Like is this going to happen. Is this not going to happen.

And like it was just really really chaotic kind of and somewhat demoralizing on some level. I mean it's disappointing that we won't be able to take this trip. My birthday is on Sunday and I was excited to be there with my parents and Austin the whole thing. And you know so there's a little bit of like deflation maybe. Yeah. That might be a better way of putting. Yeah. Yeah. And so some of those issues also are you know as I mentioned on the last episode it's still developing. And so we'll see we'll see where things land exactly in terms of if and how and when this trial is going to proceed. And when we have more information I assure you you all it'll be wonderful and we'll get into it. That's the plan. But for now Alex needs money.

Yes. We do know that. We do know that. So second thing there's big news that is broken that people are maybe making more out of than they need to or maybe not. I'm not sure. And that is the issue of Alex going to the DOJ and asking for immunity in exchange for a conversation. Right. Now I think that there is one way to look at this and that's the way I think a lot of Twitter is looking at this and that's like Alex has flipped. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't know if that's the case. I mean for one Alex did talk about on our last episode covering his show from Monday that he was planning to go and make an offer to the FBI. Yes. And that he doesn't know anything. Right. He doesn't want to run any risk of getting in trouble. And so he would do it for

the the deal of immunity. Right. So I'm not certain exactly how much of this is as revelatory as people may be treating it. And I think that maybe obviously the people who are reporting on it aren't people who necessarily watch Info Wars. So they wouldn't have seen that on Monday. Sure. Sure. But yeah. I think if it's if it's something that is like Alex's turned states of states property. Yeah. Then I don't I don't know how much you'd be talking about that on his show. Right. My general vibe on this and this is the way I would like things to go. If I had my druthers everything Alex is doing right now we have to assume the end goal of that is to get more money or to avoid paying money. Right. It's all about money is my point at this point in time.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And the way he makes money is by advancing bigoted politics and eroding public confidence in right centralized collaborative systems. Exactly. And at this point in time giving him any attention is only going to be beneficial to him. That's my vibe on it. Well sort of I mean outside of you know us and I think I think one of the dangers that you run into is that when you overhype something like this and be like Alex is flipped he's going to turn and tell everybody when he doesn't or if that doesn't happen then it looks like what were we doing. Right. Right. Now I do think that there's a possibility. It's a very small possibility outside possibility that Alex has realized that some of his friends were up to more than he realized

initially or that's possible. You know reading some of these indictments of the oath keepers and stuff. Maybe he's realized like I do have texts that are relevant to this and I didn't realize they were right. I better just make sure I don't get arrested. Could be. Could be. There is a chance. I don't think it's high but I think that there's a chance that that might be and I don't I wouldn't maybe that's flipping. I don't know if if if he was flipping it wouldn't be public like this. So what he's doing now because it's so public suggests to me that one he doesn't actually have anything to share so there's no risk in him coming out with this bullshit. It's possible. And there's a huge chance that people are going to run with it. Do you know how we know because

they did. And so I kind of think that he's got nothing and he's trying to get headlines that aren't about Sandy Hook that he can fundraise off of and people are obliging. Yeah. That's my that's my feeling. Yeah. It's I think that that's a pretty strong possibility. Yeah. But yeah we'll see. We'll see what happens with this. I would imagine just a guess. Yeah. The FBI and the DOJ probably aren't interested in giving him immunity. What do they want to give him immunity from for. I don't I don't know. It seems it seems like a weird thing for them to humor. I mean not because like there's necessarily like giant charges coming for him or sure. Sure. You know just because like no. Yeah. Absolutely not. Absolutely not.

Just a flat out whatever information you have is worth less than me saying no to you right now. Yeah. Do you know. Yeah. Like no matter what you've got for me it's going to be better for for me in the long run to say fuck you. And so much of the information that they probably would need from Alex they have from the other million other people. Right. Any any messages that he had with Stuart Rhodes are probably available. Yeah exactly. Stuff. So I don't know. I'm not as I don't know if this is as big of a story as some people are experiencing it as but that said I don't have any inside information. I don't know the ins and outs of this. So I could easily not know a piece of information that isn't public and that could be the piece

of information that changes my mind on everything. And so we'll see. We'll see. But for now there's so many moving parts and there's a lot going on it in fours about how bad they need money. And there's some stuff. But I just you know I think it's going to take until Monday for me to really get another episode together. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think we should do anything about Alex. I think we should put him on the back burner. Well unfortunately I don't know how to tell you this but I I don't have any project Camelot. I don't have Jim Baker. I know I've been talking a lot about this Russell Brand. Sure. Sure. And I think eventually there might be an episode there. Maybe a Jimmy Dorr episode at some point down the line. Maybe branching

out a tiny bit. Dan I'm going to come to your rescue real quick. OK. Because here's a question that I have been thinking about for so long. And that question is well I suppose it's not a question but it's more like Alex rants about the devil and witches and we get all of his perspective and all of his guest's perspective on that. What have we never done. We've never interviewed the devil. We've not done that. We've not had a month of puddings. That's also year of the pudding. What I would what I will say to you is this. We have not interviewed the devil. Yeah. But we should talk to someone who has somebody's interviewed the devil. Oh yeah. Dan we haven't seen. We haven't heard from witches. We haven't

heard from magicians. We haven't heard from the magical powered people. Some people about the devil. Well I mean maybe not specifically on the devil but we've definitely heard some people with powers on the project. Not specifically magic. Can I also say that I think that our main subject Alex Jones thinks he can do magic. I also he has seen the devil. I think so maybe he's actually interviewed the devil to possible. I think we'll find that there are a lot of similarities. Joe Rogan has talked to the clockwork elves that would you do DMT. Sure. Sure. But I would say we're about to talk. Well. Some witches. Oh yeah. We are going to we're going to hear what it is. This is an out of context trap for you to give you a little

idea of what's going on. All right. Great. So and the next question. Let's get into the role of the devil and the saints and European magic and witchcraft and do you believe in the devil and if so are there a lot of them. What is the devil. What is what is the devil. Do you believe in the devil. Personally. Yes. No. If so. Wait. That kind of messes up the second part of the question. Follow up. It's going to be tough. Let's let's undo that. All right. Imagine I do. Would you believe in the devil. Right. Would you believe that there is a bunch of them. Sure. Okay. Here is what I will say to you about what we're going to talk about. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. That was just a standalone question. Absolutely. Because you need to know what's

going to I'm going to tell you what's going to happen here. Okay. We are going to talk to Gordon White who is a chaos magician. I thought it was going to be a sting. His name Gordon. Yeah. I think so. Rex Bear is the host of the leak project and I am a little bit in love with him. Okay. I'm going to tell you this right now. We are not going to be talking about a monster. We're not going to be talking about evil people. I have done my best to find us the early days of Project Camelot. Whenever it was just joy. When it was just pure beauty. Sure. When we didn't have to go into somebody's background and have them say like oh and by the way I'm an anti-semite. You know we didn't have to. We don't have to do that today buddy. Well we might not yet.

How deep did you dig on these people. I dug a little bit and the craziest part about it is Gordon White is an anti-racist. He's a like vehement one. He's a I mean I can't say it any other way than his words. Gordon White is a chaos magician shamanic practitioner and permaculture farmer based in Tasmania. His website and podcast Roon Soup is one of the most popular digital watering holes in the world of modern magic. Wait wait wait. He's from Tasmania. He is from Tasmania. Has he interviewed the Tasmanian devil. I don't know. He played him. He might be confused. He didn't talk to the actual devil. There are some spells that he will tell us about later that do require. I don't do good impressions.

So he is he continues a success in many spheres. Gordon has worked for some of the world's largest digital and social media companies in a life that few experience he has partied with princes dined in castles been mentored by a former director of a private spy agency and had a billionaire night by him a bottle of champagne. Hey he brings the same chameleon skills to his magical work. Gordon has dived in search of sharks in lost cities sat in ceremony under desert stars. Can I can I pause. Yes. Why are you looking for sharks in lost cities. Magic. But you'd want I think in lost cities there's more to be found than sharks. You can find sharks anywhere. I mean yeah but not the most magical ones the most magical sharks obviously

moved into the lost cities and by being in the lost cities have gained the magical powers. They've learned how to use tools. Absolutely. They have a rudimentary language. Okay. Yeah they've grown opposable fins. All right. He's burying the lead then. He's doing a lot of burying the lead. Yeah. So he has I mean his credits are amazing. It's quite a resume. It is a resume. It doesn't get better than that. So he's he's the he's like a 30 he's like my age. Okay. And a billionaire night is bottom of bottle champagne. Have you ever had a billionaire night by you bottle once. I have not had. I mean he in he said it's a life that few experience. All right. I have actually had a billionaire night by me. Well I wasn't champagne. It was

just sparkling grape juice. So I can't really compete. I had a millionaire dick bag by me a bottle of champagne. Okay. You and I are close. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Remember that. Yeah. It was fine. It's all right. I wouldn't put it in my credits. No. So he is being interviewed by Rex Bear. And Bear is the host of the leak project which I guess is a podcast and web series is its words. The news media and the government. This is its description of what it's it is. Okay. Okay. The news media and the government are entwined in a vicious circle of mutual manipulation myth making and self interest. Journalists need crises to dramatize news and government officials need to appear to be responding to crises. Too often the crises are

not really crises but joint fabrications. The two institutions have become so ensnared in a symbiotic web of lies that the news media are not unable to tell the public what's true and the government is unable to govern effectively. There's a kernel of something there. Sure. That's it's credits. Okay. That's a leak project. It's a complaint. That is exactly. Okay. That is how the leak project in about us writes about the government and not at all about the leak project. Yeah. I don't know if just from that description I wouldn't know if this is a show or yeah. Just kind of mad. Now crazily enough that does not move over to Rex Bear. Rex Bear is a delight of a man and he's going to tell us what we're going to talk about today. But that also must mean that he's

harboring these feelings. I mean he's mad at the government. Right. But like how we all are. You know like it is fucking up. Sure. And if you believe in magic maybe you think it's fucking up a little bit weirder. Yeah. I would assume so. Yeah. And I want to get into real quick what we're going to talk about. We're going to discuss the grimoire tradition and its relationship to chaos magic the latest consciousness science and the return of animism the role of the devil and the saints in European magic and witchcraft a chaos magic form of remote viewing a method of summoning dragon spirits. That sounds exciting. A Sumerian method of banishing ghosts. I need that one. A complete system of scripted location. Hello. And the second part of the podcast. We will be

taking questions from the live audience. Ghost get out of here. Your ears perked up in that one because you asked the question. Why does he meet. What's going on with your life. Why does he need that spell. I've been waiting for someone to give me the spell to banish ghosts. Right. My house is just full of fucking ghosts. It's like that show ghosts. And you'll see he's developing a recurring theme there. That spell is going to come back up. He is not going to explain to us why he needs it though. That sucks. It drives me insane. There's a couple of things that I have to deal with here. Was it first too much on the plate. This if you ever show that's too much to get into it is second. He's pretty. I think he's

selling it pretty well. Like spell to banish ghosts. I could use that. Spell to get dragon spirits. Oh that sounds nice. Yeah I know. It's like a morning news. It's pretty exciting. It would be. Also chaos magic. I can't not think of Sonic the Hedgehog. The chaos emeralds. Oh yeah. Chaos control. Yeah. We'll find that chaos magic is very different from that. Does that have to do with sex magic? I mean I can't really answer so much of that because I've read Gordon White's books which was a fun thing for me to do. And his belief system of what chaos magic is is kind of everything's right. Okay. So like in his book about what spells are this dude is really really brilliant. I don't know if he's brilliant so much as if he has an idetic memory like he's

absurdly well read and he cites things that are 100% true. Like he's a fan of anthropology anthropology to the point where if he starts telling you about the history he can talk for like five straight minutes tell you everything that actually happened like that is that is understood and then be like okay now we know what happened. Here's why magic did it you know and you're like what what wait why why did you do that? Maybe someone put a spell on him. That's that made him think that magic's real. Well I'll tell you I can I can we're gonna do a couple spells I'll show you some spells. Okay. But first here's what's important about the show before we go any further. This is the most evil portion of the show. Whoa the introduction. It is an ad.

Oh no. Yeah. And also real quick folks I wanted to let you know my friends over at trade like a genius.com are offering specialist elite project listeners. This is just a really great way to learn about trading out of the convenience of your own home. And what's nice about this is they'll actually send you trade alerts. So I just wanted to show people real quick because I've been getting dozens of emails the past few days. Rex how does this actually work. So I'm going to show you real quick what it is because I think it's a it's a it's essentially super easy and a lot of people get nervous about it. So it'll take me 10 seconds here. I'm going to do a quick screen share this right here. Boom. This is an alert that I get every single day. So this is a trading alert that I've

got about an hour ago. You can see right here I clicked on the alert and then I open it up in here and this shows you exactly the time to buy and you can also get into more details with the charts. If you want to take the bundled opportunities are extremely discounted right now. And if you want to do all of card options if you use the code holiday but no leak projects sent you you can get a 55 percent discount. So check it out trade like a genius dot com let no leak projects sent you. All right man let's let's rock and roll let's get into this. Gordon where do we start. Where do we start. Oh we already started. Exactly. Now why Dan do you think that a company trade like a genius would choose a show that might be a lot about wealth magic to put an

ad for trading. I think it speaks for itself. Yeah. Also I assume the trade like a genius isn't necessarily a gigantic company and maybe this is something that's within their advertising budget. I mean I think they are pretty big. I'm not sure. I didn't look into trade like a genius but it is what it is. It's another one of those wealth trading apps where it's like OK according to this signal of a line that goes up whenever it does this you should buy blah blah blah and then we get our trade it and and it's more of a subscription service. So it's not like they get a cut of your trades. It is like you pay them five bucks a month or whatever it is. It's one of those kinds of things strange which I find it sketchy no matter what but also totally the presentation

of this ad is far more ethical than the way Alex 100 percent 100 percent. This is these guys really are trying to do things as close to what they believe is the right way as they possibly can. Now they do also have a lot of that wealth magic stuff in there and Gordon White's book the Chaos Protocols protocols is two things. It is like an exhaustive collection of historical spells and magic and an exploration of where they came from and who created them and it's it's really really dense. The other thing it is is a millennial screed against how the government and the economy is fucking us over and how in the 1960s certain things were worth this and now we can't buy houses. Sure like and it's it's full on as anarchist socialists like

we got to do all this shit. You know what I'm thinking about what I don't know if I'm making too big of a leap here. Yeah. But it makes sense to me that magicians would not like our current monetary system because Alchemy works with the gold standard. Right. You know. Actually. Oh my God. Actually let me know. I have this prepared for you. Hold on. No. You don't even you don't even fucking know how right you are. That was not a big leap. Holy shit. I can't I can't wait to read you this. I thought that was a stupid. No. No. No. 100 percent. Right. Listen to this shit. This is going to boggle your mind. OK. From the chaos protocols until 1971 the value of the dollar was pegged to a fixed amount of precious metals just as it was at the beginning of a fractional

reserve banking system. Right. When the famous voodooist Marie Lavaux and her daughter were alive in the 19th century a dollar was either made with a guaranteed amount of silver or was convertible into a specified amount. True things. Right. This fix the debt. Well actually I don't know when this voodooist was around. Well that's fair. This fix the value of a dollar into something real. Now this is where we add that. So that reasonable. No big deal. Now we just go and here's the magic is involved. So if either Lavaux senior or junior had used the customary folk magical practice of putting a dollar under a candle she would have been growing wealth from a fixed amount. If you have tried the same piece of folk magic anytime after 1971 then you are doing the opposite.

In today's money you need almost five and five dollars and seventy eight cents to buy the equivalent of what a dollar could buy you in 1971. Such a magical act encodes an erosion of wealth rather than an accumulation. Magic has like inflation. OK. That's baffling. I know I was I've read that 30 times trying to figure out what it is he's really trying to say to me. He's saying that if when we went off the gold standard magic stopped working as well. Right. Right. Because because it was concretely connected to these resources and there's a certain I mean there's a certain logic to that. Nope. Disagree. If you're a magician I get the thought track. I get I get I get how this makes sense to someone like who has that those beliefs.

Yeah. You came up with it. Yeah. Well I was making a joke. Right. It's kind of like how you would make a joke about like like a libertarian like being against roads and so make make flying cars. Yeah. And then someone's like we actually we got to make flying cars because then we don't need roads. I know but it's it's also a little weird for that to be the gold standard. It is the issue. Yeah. Now all of these roads that the government shouldn't be paying for right lead back to the gold standard somehow. Right. So I'm going to tell you this about Gordon in case that that little stretch of dense text didn't make it clear. He is a talker. He's a long winded talker and Rex gives him I mean seven eight minutes of uninterrupted speech at a time

and he cannot stay on topic. He rambles about consistently and I can't like really explain that to anybody and I'm not going to put you through five minutes. So what I've done is I took the next eight minutes stretch of time where he speaks uninterrupted and I've made one of those little time montages for you. Super cut. Yeah. A little super cut. All right. Here we go. Gordon where do we start. I don't know. I mean you held up a number of books there that I mean maybe we should start with what a grimoire is because it's a really evocative term. Right. So I mean originally it comes from the French and it's it's related to the same root word as we get the word grammar from. So it is about words and so on. Originally it meant any book that was written in Latin.

So that kind of gives you some indication of I've seen Sola. That's an armoire collection of tricks of doing things you know. But inside this term grimoire which was only applied much much later. The sort of idea of books of magic or documents of magic in the European context goes back to evocatory grimoires or grimoires of evocation of calling up spirits either demons, angels, whatever it happens to be. Now the top one isn't one of them. So that's called that's the sworn book of Hanoius and inside the kind of category of the umbrella of grimoires you have Solomonic grimoires which is like the lesser key which is this one of the bottom ones you have there and you have other ones that are to do with scholastic or image magic like the sworn book of

Hanoius. So that's like the main one that's the one that everyone knows that's the big daddy contemporary psychological nodes of recalling things for exams and so on. Hanoius has like angels and so on in it because the idea was that you would do these certain practices and say these certain prayers and angels would teach you the liberal arts. The key of Solomon which is the other one it's that was what we call a solomonic grimoire obviously because and the key of Solomon is the like most well-known one. They pretend to be written by someone potent in history so of course Solomon from the Bible actually binds demons and uses them or gets them to build a temple. So this idea of calling spirits and getting them to do the bidding of a holy person or to do the

bidding of good if you will is why so many books are called solomonic. Okay yeah and then that makes sense. Right. Sure I have a few problems I think. Oh there are so many. Well I don't know about the ethics of enslaving demons. Right. Like I understand they're demons. Sure. But what does that do to you to enslave a thing? That actually will come up later on. Oh yeah. I don't like how on point I am with this. You are essentially thinking like a chaos magician of the highest caliber. Maybe I listen to too much stupid shit. Maybe it's just that magic and everything that we talk about are essentially the same concept which is whatever I think is true is true. Sure. Sure. Yeah and I think that one of the things about magic that's kind of different than

some other conspiracy stuff is that like there needs to be a system to magic. Yeah. And you know like in order for people to like really try and make their argument there needs to be a system whereas like with conspiracy theories there is the absence of the system. There's the beginning and the conclusion and then the middle is like the globalists are doing all this stuff. Right. Right. Right. Whereas this there's no ending. There's a beginning and like a thought. Yeah. In the middle. Yeah. Yeah. The system. Right. And I can kind of I can kind of see that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But it's still. It's long. It's long and he just keeps going. So Solomon put demons in books and then angels help you remember things. Yeah. A lot like that. Essentially what he's

saying over eight minutes is grimoires are a couple of different things but generally speaking we're talking about books that have history or magic spells. The end. Do I associate that word with Harry Potter? You could. Grimoire is a is a famous you know Skyrim has grimoires might be where I'm thinking of. Grimoire is a traditional like fan high fantasy magical term for for a book. That I think it's probably Skyrim that I think that would make sense. Now we heard a lot about Solomon. Right. OK. Now our our host Rex Bear. He comes back from this eight minute stretch where he lets Gordon speak uninterrupted with this. OK. Now even the word Solomon somebody brought up to me once and I was like you're right. Saul son oh and then mon Solomon mean like sun and the moon.

So that's a I don't know. It's almost like an archetype name that's that's bringing the light and the dark together. Damn. See. Deep. Right. I cannot love more that he just that Gordon went for so long. And the first thing this dude has to come back with is like somebody told me like Saul and then moon. Yeah. Well I mean like is it moon not moon most other older languages isn't like a loon. Yeah. Like more of that sort of phonetic structure than sun. Yeah. Saul you could get. You know. I don't know. I think I don't buy it. I mean it's more at this level of thinking from him is more like if you were like Solomon you know solo and then mon from like Pokemon so it's like one Pokemon. Mm hmm. It's that level of shit right there. I think that a lot of the folks that we

end up looking at do like word association games. Yeah. And I can relate. Oh yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. It's a lot of fun. What a lot of comedy is. Yeah. You're not far off. Yeah. Yeah. Just make it little connections that aren't really there. But people go. That's why it works sometimes and sometimes. Yeah. So you can see that we're clearly dealing with a disparity of expertise between our host and our guest here. Whimsy on one hand. Yes. Look graciousness on the other. It is. It is kind of delightful and it just like it doesn't get worse their their relationship. It just it just gets nicer. Like it's interesting. I think you even told me this once when I discussed how I read some passages out of the Book of the Dead and it spooked me out. I had that

real freaky dream and some weird things started happening. I quit messing with it. Was it you that said well that's because you're messing with the most powerful some of the most powerful magic in the world. It might have been. Might have been me. It was absolutely not. The Tibetan Book of the Dead. Yep. We talk about the Tibetan Book of Dead as well as the Egyptian Book of the Dead. Okay. And how they're different. Okay. And yet this is an important part of Chaos Magic. I'm listening. They are both 100% accurate. Okay. Even if they disagree with each other. They're still right. This is another thing about magic. Everything is right. Yeah. That's pretty tough to to wrestle with. Tough to swallow. So the other thing too that I enjoy is I had some freaky

dreams around the time of this messing with the Tibetan Book of the Dead and like come on man. Do you have too much ice cream before bed or like is there another variable. He's got a lot. He's got a lot of freaky dreams. Sure. I've had freaky dreams. I have a copy of the Book of the Dead somewhere. Yeah I know. It's not affected my dreams. It has. It really doesn't. No. And I but that's kind of how Gordon treats this whole thing is anything that Rex comes back at him with. He's like yeah that sounds right. That sounds good. And then he just keeps going. Like I don't think he heard a word Rex said the entire time. I think that there's a necessity of collaboration and mutual support in talking about magic more than there is an improv. Oh

yeah. Like oh yeah. If you start to split hairs and be all over. No. It's all over. Yes. One time you ruin the premise. The whole the whole interview stops. Everybody just goes what I don't understand right because conceivably if magic were real you'd be able to cast a spell. Exactly and prove you're right. The point being yes. Unfortunately we do not cast any spells all in the show because we'd be messing around with too much power. I understand that. That's the kind of thing where it's like I could prove you wrong but I can't talk about the thing that I know. Right. Like I have all the evidence but I can't show it to you. Right. All right. So our boy Rex Bear continues. Just I mean I can't even describe some of what he's doing here.

He's a delight. You can. Some funny things can happen if you just mess around with it. I'm not saying not to do it. I'm saying it's potent. You know things will happen. Well certainly I've had my fun and I just read a few of the scriptures and anyway yeah like the one giving mouth. That was an interesting hieroglyphic set. I don't know if anybody they're having a little bit of fun in that one but hey why not. I mean it's your time to pass. I mean anyway so anyway I'm not going to get too deep into that. Do you know what you probably know what I'm talking about in that one. Yes. It looks like he's getting that looks like the pharaoh is getting some action during that certain ritual which is very interesting because he's already in the coffin. He's like already in the

coffin. So but then somebody brought up it was like hey man that's that's like the most powerful time in your life right there when you're passing to the other side. So he's getting fucked in a coffin. And some of these responses like man that's the most powerful time of your life when you're dead dead. You don't have to be dead to be in a coffin. No. No. This just sounds like dudes talking about drugs. 100% like hey I'm not saying don't mess with it but it's potent. Exactly. Look out. Exactly. Fuck you up. And that's I've had so many people tell me that about things like hey man look I know that you you smoked weed before but this stuff is it'll mess you up. Be careful. Oh yeah. I'm not saying don't I'm not saying don't just be just be

responsible what you're getting into. If you start fucking with magic it's not going to stop fucking with you. Right. Everybody would say that about mushrooms back when we were like 1718. Yeah. That's why when he says like I know I've had my fun where you're like what with what what what are you talking about. He's got fucked in a coffin. I know he insinuates that he has done so much magic and he has so many problems and he's never he does not explain it. Having all this fun and fucking in coffins is how all the ghosts showed up in his house. Right. Now Dan here is where we're going to get into some real trouble. Okay. You continue to be a witch. Yeah. Which is funny on this episode because once again you have brought out drugs being very important. Yeah. I'm

going to tell you and you've you've gotten one of the answers right but I wanted to look into some chaos magic. Sure. And Gordon explains that there are three effective ways to become invincible. Okay. Before we before we get to this can I ask you how is chaos spelled. Regular. Okay. C-H-A-O-S. Okay. Yeah. It would have been it would have been more arcane if he went with a K. I thought there might be something weird. Yeah. You would have been loud or something. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So. Do I have to guess. You can try. You've already got one. Drugs. One is drugs. That makes you invincible. That's the best way to do it. Wow. It's the most effective way. That's number one. I would say that this is a bad message. Well. Well. I am totally

fine with people messing around with drugs responsibly. Right. I would never say it makes you invincible. Hold on. It's he says specifically the most effective route to becoming invincible is to take a high dose of psychedelics in a suitable ritual environment. So he does want you to be safe or at least it could make you feel. I think that's kind of the point. Right. Yep. Doesn't make you invincible. All right. Let me guess. Okay. Sacrifice of another human. No. Uh-uh. Animal. No. Drinking blood. No sacrifices. Sacrifices are a historical thing. Nothing macabre then really. Trying not to be. Okay. Yeah. Is booze included with the drugs? I don't think I think he's actually anti booze. Well, he's one of those guys. It's tough to do

magic when you're like falling over. Right. Okay. Well, I'll tell you the second most effective. Okay. Lighting a candle and reciting the Lord's Prayer backwards every night for three nights. I was not going to guess that. That was the second most effective, dad. So it's it's high dose of psychedelics and then maybe just light a candle for three nights. Okay. All right. Sure. And of course the third. Yep. Okay. I think I know this. Okay. I think I know this. We have to run really fast for three blocks and then do six push ups. Getting close. Get up. Climb to a top of a roof. Run around the top of the building. Eat two eggs. Two eggs. Two eggs. Can't be one egg. Raw. Raw. Yes. That's rude. And then jump off the roof. Well, obviously,

I feel like that would make you invincible. Nope. Okay. The third most effective way is the preliminary invocation or headless right. You have to chop your head off. Uh, no. Oh, but you are so many. You are so many. The Holy Golden, Holy Guardian Angel. Okay. Let me give you a little bit of idea of what the headless right is. They're detailed instructions here. Face north. Touch your left temple and then your right temple with the parchment and read aloud what is written on it six times. Six times. Okay. All right. Then say, I'm not going to do it six times because I don't want us to get accidentally invincible. I understand. You know, do you want to accidentally become invincible?

No, no, no. Then say, subject me to, subject to me all daemons so that every daemon, which is not spelled like daemon, so that every daemon, whether heavenly or aerial or earthly or subterranean or terrestrial or aquatic might be obedient to me and every enchantment and scourge, which is from God. Okay. It goes on. Move from facing north to facing the direction of Orion and continue. I summon you headless one who created earth and heaven, who created night and day, you created the light and darkness that you are. Oh, so run rope. It continues. Sure. Uh, uh, several pages on this quite a, quite a ritual. I invoke you with all power and I pray to you with the authority of the one who spoke truth and who has made it who has. So you see,

it's a long ritual. Yeah. This, this is a problem for me for a couple of reasons. Here's the first one was that what does it mean to be invincible? Does that mean you can't be killed? I mean, you can't be harmed in any way. It is the least explained part of his book. Second, if that might be a help to you. Second question. What do you think being invincible is? I think is a really important question for what you think you got out of this. I think that's the only way to know if you were successful or not. Right. Second question. Yeah. How long does this invincibility last forever? Really? Forever. Really? Yeah. Really? Yeah. All right. I mean, you've got the book right here. I can email it to you. Well, I would say that this has not worked ever. Yeah.

Because we don't have a bunch of invincible people walking around. Actually, I can't prove that. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. That's where the magician always wins. Yeah. Yeah. So I was thinking if this was like a, like a shorter term invincibility spell, it really wouldn't be helpful if it's six pages long. Yeah. No. You'd only really want to use that spell if you need it fairly soon. Well, I mean, the one that, one of them takes three nights. You know, you can't just whip that one out with your, with your old fashioned grimoire. True. True. And the other one is like doing ayahuasca. The other one is doing a shit ton of drugs, which you can do in a hurry. That is true. Sure. It's harder to do drugs really quick in a safe environment. That is true. That's

more of a challenge. Okay. So now we want to get into some comparing with Alex, right? Because we're, we're talking about the devil. We also need to talk about the afterlife. Right. We need to talk about, well, go ahead, compare notes. It might be a fraught passage between death and the afterlife. And the whole point of the books of the dead, so the new kingdom versions of it, was that, was this idea that when you die, the passage to the good parts of the afterlife, you have to kind of navigate, and it's not just the judgment scene. It's not just the weighing of the heart. There's like the swamps you have to get through that are filled with snakes and all this kind of thing. So the movement of the soul from the body to the good parts of the afterlife

requires not just full knowledge of what's going to happen, hence their training and so on, but also that it's not, it doesn't necessarily follow that just because you're dead, you get whisked into the good place. You have to sort of get there. And it's sure. Yeah. Yeah. So Alex believes that when you die, if you did good, you can go to heaven, right? Right. But a lot of theologians believe you just sit with a harp and that's not true. Right. Right. So he kind of agrees with him, right? In order to get to heaven, you have to die. Right. And then crawl through a swamp with snakes. Right. I have some questions about that. What, what questions could you possibly have about that? Are these living snakes? Are they like real snakes? I think they have to be

living snakes. Well, in that case, the swamp has to have like an ecosystem because then the swamps need things to eat. They reproduce. Totally. Then there could be like ecological changes that happen. And then the snakes are like, they have to migrate. Is there afterlife climate change? Exactly. Yeah. It has to be climate. If what if there's an invasive, invasive species right that starts and maybe it's nicer to people? So the snakes don't even bite them anymore. The snakes are all gone. It's just a bunch of rabbits. Then are you going to need to artificially bring in more snakes? Obviously you will. It's a complex system. It's like a golf course. I think trying to get to happen. I feel like you could just much more easily have fake snakes. Yeah.

Sneaky fake snakes. Probably. So now let's get into some fun. All right. We got to talk about ghosts. I love it. It is a storehouse for all the things that are unpredictable and may oppose us. And so there's a woman, she's been on the show as well, Corinne Boyer. She's an American herbalist. She has a book called Plants of the Devil. And it's looking at plants that are in European witchcraft traditions that are associated with the devil. And she calls it the wild adversary. And that's a really good way of understanding what the devil is. The devil is adversarial because that makes the devil a really bad weather event. That makes the devil all these kind of adversarial things as well and untamed. And so it's this category that refuses to be categorized. Now, so this is what it's like

to get to. We need to talk about ghosts with this guy. Okay. The words immediately before this are like, okay, what do you think about ghosts? And so he's like, okay, first thing you got to know, here's what the devil is. This herbalist believes that the devil is the natural adversary. Yep. And now we move. But also, I don't think that when you say natural adversary, it evokes the idea of weather to me. Because I've never seen a storm and been like, that's my enemy. The enemy. The enemy of my, what's the enemy of my enemy in the storm situation? I don't have an adversarial relationship with weather. No, no, but and I don't feel it does with me either. But if you believe that everything is some sort of force or action or spirit, conscious spirit, that the devil to you

in this situation is really whatever you think it is. Right. It is the, it is the idea of an adversary is what the devil is. So whatever you think you're doing, if somebody's trying to stop you, that's the devil. Right. I can, I can kind of get into that a tiny bit as long as you don't go too far with that. Exactly. No, there's a lot of, there's a lot of this that's just like regular old self-help stuff. Yeah. And then you're like, but also you can hold a crystal or something as long as you can stay like sort of self-aware of what you're, you know, using these ideas for. Yeah. I don't know if it's necessarily terrible to be like, my laziness is the devil. No, exactly. No, and it is, it is kind of, that is kind of what Gordon White is trying to do in,

in I think what he, what he's, his main goal is, right? He's trying to create a system wherein you can be a good person. You know, you can care about other people. You can do all of this other stuff. You can fight racism. He's, he's a gay man. And what's so important to him is the way that the LGBTQ community is being treated right now. Like he's furious about all this stuff. Beyond that, I don't know, he might be a monster who he's a COVID denialist, but he's a magician. So what are you going to do? Right. Germs can't be real if you're a magician. Exactly. If you're a magician, you can't be like, oh, viruses are scary. You know, what are you going to do? Because you don't have any spells to do. Exactly. Because there's no, wait, in 1971 viruses were worth $5 and 38 cents

more than they are today. So, so he's trying to create a unified, if everything is true, magic, religion, all of this stuff, then we can stop fighting about it all the time. If, if I can tell you that Islamic beliefs are 100% true and that Islamic magical beliefs are 100% true and that God did Christianity and everything. And everything has something that he pulls from. So his basic idea, and let me try and take you, let me try and take you through his thought process here. Okay. If you just look at the least likely stuff, then you'll be a skeptic towards magic. You know, you're like, there's, okay, you didn't actually perform that miracle. I think I could be skeptical about the most likely stuff. But if you were the person who

doesn't want to be skeptical at all, and you want to be the smartest person in the room who always wins every argument, then what you do is you seek out the most likely, like the most credible magical thing that you can think of, a magical thing that is so credible that it can get a lot of people who would otherwise be like, no, of course it's not a miracle. Like what? I have no idea. Okay. It's him. It's no, no, I'm telling you the way he thinks. Right. I understand that, but I figured there would be an example of what the most credible thing is. I don't know. Call it the Shroud of Turin or whatever. Who cares? Sure. Hieroglyphics magic or whatever it is you want. It's got to be ancient, right? So then you can get into arguments with other people who already

believe magic and be the smartest guy in the room. And since you've got these concrete examples that to you prove magic is real, then you can work back out again. Because if magic is real on this most credible example, then now I can point you to that, that miracle that is obviously bullshit and you'll be more likely to believe it because you already got, like, because I've eroded your. Exactly. That is what's going on here. Fun. So he hits you with so much that eventually your, your ability to fight back is eroded. Right. Yeah. One of the reasons you just avoid conversations like this. Exactly. So he keeps going though. Now, speaking of that, do you feel that the ancient Egyptians, the, let's go before some of the modern

pharaohs that we've uncovered, that, you know, they've done an incredible job with preserving their bodies. But it seems to me like they were mimicking something even before then, maybe a scientific aspect that turned into a magical ritual versus, you know, magic and science can be the same thing, but real magic works. Whereas there's the the suedo magic, which just gives you that good feeling. Oh yeah. That's amazing. But it doesn't really have that effect. So I'm just wondering if you think that the, there was a original race or race of beings, whether or not from here or somewhere else, but we're here on this planet at the specific time, ancient Egyptian, that were using their bodies and preserving it in a way that they could like go into the,

into a different dimension, like when we pass and then bring that knowledge back. Or I mean, what do you think the purpose of it was to go through time and space? Super interesting question. I mean, it's an interesting question. My, my favorite, my favorite part. And you heard him give a little swerve to that time and space on the video. He does a little time and space movement. Of course, like he's waving his hands about like, oh, I'm in space. Yeah. Very, very fun. I don't know what to think about the question. Hmm. I don't know if I care. Do you not think that magic and science can be the same thing, Dan? No. Oh, well, you are, you know why? Because that ritual involves putting a parchment up

to the temples of your head. Did you do it? No. Well, then that's not very scientific, is it Dan? You have to test the hypothesis. I think a lot of people have and they're not invincible. So maybe those are our test cases. I'll be the control group on this one. I won't do the spell and see if I'm invincible. So far, so good. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So with this next clip, he is going to explain a little bit of like how summoning spirits and all that works. And our host is going to really enjoy it. It's going to blow his mind. But it's also not. It's also like the oldest thing we've ever done. It's probably 100,000 years old because shamans are appointed to not have to minion over spirits, but to be the thing that

gets spirits to do the things humans want more often than not. Yeah, absolutely. That's the, you just, I mean, I had some sinks there, some matrix sinks and some, some mind expansion. That was wonderful. Thank you. Wonderful. Was that me? And I also wanted to ask you this then. So we brought up the bird people and they are oftentimes referred to as the Gigi. So you didn't tell me that earlier they'd brought up the bird people. They really hadn't brought up the bird people. Maybe it was all fair. It was more of like, I mean, they didn't bring up the bird people in that conversation where we saw the pharaoh getting a blowjob in the coffin. Sure. He then says, oh, and we've also seen these

hieroglyphics that are like bird people. So, I mean, beyond him saying there's a picture of a bird. There's also the, the Ruto, right? Yeah. Legend of Zelda. Yeah. Yeah. There's a Geruda Geruda from Final Fantasy seven. No. Yeah, there's some bird people. Yeah. Absolutely. We're gonna get, we're gonna talk more about birds. Okay. We're gonna talk more about birds in the matrix. So a sink in the matrix. What he's trying to say is they're calling, I'm pretty sure that he's trying to talk about four dimensional space. You know how if you've got a planet, it's a sink, it's a gravity sink. So he's trying to do that for reality. He got sunk down into reality, man, in a way that is more powerful. And so you're sort of out of the conversation for a second?

I guess. And then he went, he does that a lot. Yikes. So yeah. So Gordon's rolling now. Gordon's getting into it. Okay. Then why am I listening to anthropologists whose job it is to know this if they don't know what and I do? Do you go? Anyway, it's just, it's a buzzer I have. You think it's because of funding them though? Like you said, maybe it's like behind the scenes, people finding it. I think what happens, there's, there's so little money and so much competition for these jobs and these funding that if you don't find the proverbial sunken city, your career is so. So he's talking about how in Indonesia, they found hieroglyphics that he thinks are older than the oldest ones that people say publicly. And then there is also hieroglyphics in Australia

that might be even older. Oh my. So he thinks that people are stupid for not knowing that these Australian hieroglyphics might be a little bit older. Okay. And then he goes on to be like, see the problem with journalism, right, is that you always have to find the most something. You always have to make it so big and everything. No self-awareness in terms of reading this fucking book about how everything is the most powerful shit you can do. Right. But I mean, he's just trying to get some headlines. Exactly. He's chasing the very thing that he thinks is, and in order to get published for him, he has to make inflammatory. To me, it sounded like he was complaining about like archaeology. Yeah. About like, if you don't find the sunken city,

then you don't have a job. Exactly. And I would say to him, that is not true. There are all sorts of archaeology departments around the world who have not, not, not like, just like, we better fucking find the sunken city. They're going to close down two weeks to find the sunken city. The Dean is up my ass. We haven't found this fucking sunken city yet. I agree that finding the sunken city, whatever that means, would be a big find. Right. No one, yeah, no one's expected to find Atlantis or else their funding dries up. Totally. Except maybe in some kind of like, I don't know, if it's a quest being done by magicians, it's privately funded. Well, you do have to find the eight seals in order to progress to the next level. Sure. Absolutely. And he

continues. He's got more complaints about mainstream stuff, you know? So it doesn't matter what you find. It has to be like oldest painting in the world. And then you, if you read the actual text of it, it's not correct. And there's a get out where they don't actually say it's the oldest, but amongst the oldest or whatever. And it's, it's all just shit science journalism because no one, no one understands science less than a science journalist. Damn. Yeah. Yeah. I disagree. I understand science. You don't understand it less than a chaos magician, though. I mean, I suppose. Yeah. I mean, I guess if his argument is that like headlines are sensationalized. Sure. I agree. Yep. Yeah. It's, it's so fun. How mundane it is.

Yeah. He's like, Oh man, I'm so powerful. I'm such a powerful magician. I can become invincible. Science journalists don't know science, right? Well, I actually got to loop back to this invincibility thing. Yeah. What's wrong with it? Well, nothing actually. But I think that the implication is that anybody who knows these ways to become invincible must have taken the time to get invincible. Well, you would think. Yeah. But if you know the invincibility spell, I should be free to attack you. You would think. Yeah. Cause you're invincible. Now, here's, here's the problem with that though. Okay. What if I don't want to mess with magic? All right. We're talking about demons, demons, spirits, gods, which is fun. I like, I also

kind of like his angle on so much of this. This dude is like, again, everything is real. So he believes in God. He believes in a lot. He believes in jins for sure. Of course. You know, and it's, he doesn't have this like, Oh, you need to worship God or like, it's more like, yeah, God's an old buddy of mine. If I call him, he'll help me get my car out of the snow. Like that's the kind of relationship you have with God in this scenario, which I think Alex would find similar. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, but also probably disrespectful. Yeah. But he says it. True. He's like, I've met God. I've gone beyond him. Exactly. Yeah. And so he's, he's proven that science journalists are, are full of shit, right? Well, he's alleged it. Yeah.

But now here he's going to prove some more stuff. But like my, my main concern with alternate history in general is that it looks at this stuff and then for no reason will fall back on a falsified materialist explanation. So we have birdheaded people at Gobekli Tepe. We have a 44,000 year old male, as you say, birdheaded humanoid in cave art. We have Garuda. So we have in Hindu cosmology, we actually have like eagle headed man just next door to Indonesia. And that's before we get the whole way over to the Americas where once again, we find that motif. So, and by the way, this is the whole point of Starship to the book, right? We actually have the genetic markers to be able to trace the population movement through time down the Southern coast of Asia into where Indonesia

is an up and around and across into the Americas. So we're dealing with the same cultures and we have the same motif showing up. So that's sufficient. See, it's vices. That's sufficient. He's tracked the genetic flow of the bird people. Right. All right. Yeah. Yeah. So the problem with too many materialists, right, is that they fall back on falsifiable science, right? As opposed to magic. Exactly. Cool. Now you've got it. Cool. That is our issue. Our problem with materialism is that you should be explaining it with magic or the materialism that I have chosen, such as genetic markers. Yeah, man. Look, sure. Materialism. Yeah. Evidence. Yeah. That's nothing compared to I say some things and then I feel weird. Right. 100%. All right. So

let's hear, we're going to hear about an old friend of ours actually. Oh, really? Yeah, we're going to get in some bird beings. Oh, wow. Birdheaded beings in the imaginal or spirit world are tested everywhere. And all of a sudden, I got to stop it right there. Imaginal. Yeah, we're calling that imaginary. We're calling it imaginal. No, no, no, no, no, no, physical and imaginal. No, no, no, no. Not imaginary because that makes it sound like they're not real. Right. They're in the imagined space, Stan. Imaginary. The whole thing kind of like falls into place without you having to, the classic example is Egypt, like land speeders and helicopters and all these things they definitely didn't have because you can look at the anomalies

in history and they're definitely there. But if you've just land only on a materialist explanation for them, you end up with Zechariah, such a nuclear powered rocket ships and all the rest of it, you don't need to. Materialism is wrong. Like the spirit world is whatever you define it, it is some kind of real. And so if you see this birdheaded motif everywhere, what I can tell you definitively is that that idea is at least 40,000 years old because that's as far back as you have to go to get all these cultures to effectively be in the one place. And at that point, you ask the question, well, what is it then? Does it need to be a physical birdman or can that be a spirit or some kind of entity or something that they encounter on drugs in dreams while doing shamanic

journey and who knows who knows. And that I think is better. And I think it's more that is obviously a preference for that. But I think that's a more satisfying way of of taking the anomalies and the exciting and unusual things about history a bit more seriously without having to make statements for which there isn't a huge amount of evidence like we haven't found any and be surprised if you did, but we haven't found any skeletons of birdmen, right? True. At least that we know about. We know about. But yeah, like you said, there's no public knowledge of bird skeletons. So until there is, we got to keep questioning, we got to keep searching. And the important thing is it's... So there could be private knowledge of bird skeletons.

I love that form of just like optimism. See, listen, we know we don't need to go around explaining things like Zechariah's Sitchin with motor cars or bird skeleton beings or whatever. And his response is like, not yet, but if we keep looking, I bet there are. I like the idea that the criticism of Zechariah's Sitchin is he's too materialist. No, it's a bizarre notion. But also, yeah, if I were this guy, that's exactly the route I would take. Yeah, they got high and saw demons or spirits or whatever. Totally. Great loophole, great cop out. Yep. Because then I mean, I guess like you could just say like, okay, so like all these cultures also have flood motifs in stories that they had. Everybody tripped balls and thought

about floods. You got it or whatever. Great. Yep. We can explain all of history and everything through folklore. Yes. Yes. 100% through just people got really high and saw stuff. Yeah. And it is it is kind of a I find it very silly to me to think that birdheaded beings only go far in the imaginary sense only go as far back as however long like 40,000 years. The first time that a birdheaded being was imagined was like the first few people that were alive were like, oh man, wouldn't it be weird if you had a birdhead? Like that was it. Like that's how humans work, especially if they're getting high. Yeah, exactly. And they definitely found a way. Also, those can get high. Also, there's probably, you know, I think birdheaded people is kind of a

pretty easy jump to make. Because you're thinking about like, Oh, birds can fly. Yeah, wouldn't be fun to fly. Wouldn't be fun to fly. If there's probably a person with a birdhead moving on, boom, it's not a far jump to get to birdheaded beings, especially if you're an early artist painting totally. Absolutely. Okay, so now let's get past all of our fun little openings, because we're here to talk about the devil. Oh, I forgot about the devil. We're talking about the devil. So what is the devil? It's pronounced devil, devil. Do you believe in the devil? And if so, are there a lot of them? What is the devil? Um, so I mean, this is a huge area like one of as well as the grimoire course is also a saints and saints magic course, because the premium

members vote on one each quarter and we do that. And I actually gave a talk at the beginning of this year on, um, the devil in, in general, in particular, from our magical perspective. The devil is a bunch of stuff. Devil's a bunch of stuff. Devil's a bunch of stuff. Great. Yep. That kind of hurts the definite article of the being in front of it. But okay, I'm listening. Yeah, I mean, that's kind of where we're going and where we're coming from with everything is anything that is, is probably a bunch of stuff. And the operating principle is short story long, you know, also avoid being too specific. Oh, you don't want to be too specific. No, listen, the devil's this, but the devil's also this and the devil's this specificities for

the materialist. That's the problem with the materialist. They keep wanting those evidentiary things. So let's keep it. We need to hear more about the devil. What is the devil, Dan devil? You have to think of, think of it. And I have this hypothetical Portuguese grandmother from the 14th century. And I said, pretend you are this and your daughter is going to marry the feckless son of the blacksmith, and you think she should marry the son of the trader and have a much better life. And you have to understand that you're the semi literate Catholic woman. And by semi literate, probably a literate. The devil is the Lord of the earth. The devil is set by God to rule the earth. And so yes, you aren't supposed to worship the devil. But if you're

like, because the devil exists in your Catholic frame, and he's literally the Lord of the earth, like the devil offers Jesus the whole world. So and he's set by God to rule this earth. That means if you have earthly concerns, you take them to the devil. And so on a Sunday, you might go to mass, and then you might leave your family and total off into the woods and do some sort of offering to the devil to kill the feckless blacksmith son, or to have him have his interests in your granddaughter diminish. That's, I mean, those are very different options. What a huge drop off. Kill the guy or just be less interested. Yeah, there were they really were only those two options back in the day.

Yeah, I think also there's something in the Bible about God being a jealous God and pretty jealous, you know, I don't know if he'd be super thrilled you go into the world. You tunnel off into the woods, do it some rituals offering so you can kill this guy wants to marry your daughter or your daughter wants to get married. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. But we need to make sure that this for some reason, Portuguese grandma Yikes, who I don't ask me why, but you you understand what the devil is now, obviously, somewhat. Yeah. Yeah. It's he's sort of a mid level administrator for earthly issues. Exactly. Right. Right. So well, I mean, maybe he's not. Oh, no. It's what you do have at the top is a sort of unholy triumvirate

of Lucifer Beelzebub and Satan. And these aren't necessarily summoned at all really in main salamonate grimoires. But those names are used because they're the kings of the underworld. Those names are used to so you sort of summon lesser spirits in the name of of that triumvirate or one spirit in particular depends on the book. But they'll have different, they might be categorized under one of these three different sort of like rulers with Lucifer at the top because Lucifer the king of spirits, right? And so the the idea of the devil is this storehouse. The devil you find more in in folk magic, but you find more Lucifer in the grimoires, even though no one in the grimoires is worshiping Lucifer, and no one's really up until you get to the later period from

about the late 18th, 19th century. No one is summoning it either. So you got you got all the different names for the devil are all different things. Lucifer Beelzebub, Satan, Old Scratch. You got it. He's a different guy. He summons different people for you. So if you if you get this correctly, right? I don't know if I get this correctly. So what you do, you call one of the spirits or all of them one or all. So I'm going to call Beelzebub. Call Beelzebub. Now you're not actually going to call Beelzebub. No, he's too powerful. Sure. You don't got shit for Beelzebub. But I will call Zellotoff. Well, no, you can't do that yet. You got to call Beelzebub first. Oh, because he's the one who has enough power to call the lesser spirit. So he sort of needs to sign

off on it. Right. It's like a 911 dispatch. Like that's what we're going for. Hello, Beelzebub here. What do you need this time? Can you send a spirit over please? Yeah. So the devil is everything. And also one thing, but also a bunch of other stuff and he's three things. Okay, but he's not really any of those and you can't even call him. Well, you can't call him. Well, you could, but he won't come. No. So you clearly understand the devil now, right? I guess. Yeah. I guess I could just make up anything and that's probably what I mean. Pretty much the explanation is. But you can't do it to him because he knows more than you. The devil. No, no, no. Gordon. But he is the devil. Yeah. Well, but maybe he's maybe he's not. Yeah. So this is, this is just,

this is where it gets really, really good and things start to go absolutely wild. Because if you look at the implications of after death research, about a third of of souls, particularly now, and I actually say the number is increasing, about a third of spirits appear to hang around or not manage to find it in the kind of classic move towards the light sense. Seems like about a third of them don't. And I would argue, and this is just a guess slash hot tag, that that number is increasing because we are, we die in such a secular way where we're not sure if that's actually a thing that happens, right? Sure. Sure. So for so much of this entire interview, he has been basing all of this stuff on historical books, right? You know, magic books,

everything that is, is fake. Yeah. You know, and then all of a sudden he's just like, you know what? Scientifically speaking, after death research, based on all the after death research we've done, right? There was a study from Johns Hopkins. Yep. It's at a third of a third of spirits aren't making it any more. They're just not doing it. And yeah, the prevailing theory is that we die secularly. Absolutely. And hot take. I think that number is going up, buddy. Probably. I think we've got a terrifying increase in overall soul sticking around. Yeah. And that's a problem. Well, it's going to be a problem for ghost housing. There's going to be a ghost housing crisis. I mean, yeah. 2008 all over again. I know. It's going to be brutal. Right. The ghosts won't be able to.

Yeah. Ghosts are also very susceptible to NFTs. That's going to be a problem coming up. Yeah, that is going to be an issue. And they have unlimited money because it's not tied to anything physical anymore. It's true. All their spells work twice as good. Yeah. And now they all they want to do is catch Pac-Man. Well, for a while. Sometimes they really don't want to catch Pat. That's true. After he eats. All right. So now the chat has gotten involved. And we are going to see a little bit of how the host is reacting to them. There's all kinds of crazy stuff in there. And I find that historically very interesting. Me too. And I also just wanted to make a comment real quick because 99% of what I'm reading in the live chat here is awesome. And there's always

somebody that may be ignorant. And when I use the term ignorant, that just means uninformed. Sure. So, you know, there's one person that's having a real hard time with, I guess, me personally. They seem to think that I'm a black magician. So, it's the glasses, Rick. It must be the blue blockers. And maybe it's, you know, some people have called me Reptilian shapeshifting Jesuit. That's bold. Yeah. Yeah. Because I don't believe that the earth is shaped the way that they tell me it needs to be. So, it's okay. I get it. I understand. And everything's real on the internet. Jesus. There's so much in there, isn't there? Yeah. There's so much in that one little clip. Yeah. He does not explain which shape he thinks the earth is. Okay. Well,

he doesn't want to alienate. Well, I don't know. It could go either way. It could go either way. Yeah. I think that there's a strategic thing that sometimes people in these sort of veins do that that is the responding to criticism that is like you're a black magician because that keeps the criticism even within the world that they live in. Yeah. Absolutely. Whereas the criticism of this is a bunch of nonsense. You're silly. I'm glad for you if this does something empowering for your life. Right. But you might be overselling some of this stuff. Might be a little bit troublesome. I think that that criticism probably much less likely to respond to whereas the I'm a black magician is just like that's in game criticism. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. And I think that's kind of

fun. I mean, do you think he's a black magician? I don't care. I don't know what that means. What do you mean? I don't know what any of this means. All right. Well, what's the distinction? Let's find out what a whether or not he's a black magician. Okay. So, so anyway, no, I don't practice black magic. And I don't really have time. I'm doing leap project and black magic kind of freaks me out because if there is a cause and effect, if there is a cause and effect, if you're doing dark things, dark things might come back to you. It's it's just I mean, it's it's science. And there was one time that I had 72 lesser keys of Solomon that I got on eBay. This was back in 2008. I got it for like 100 bucks. I was so excited as a 1913 version. When I cool, I immediately knew something was up,

man. It was like this real dark energy. And I had it for a couple of months. And I remember the whole time I had it, the energy in the house was just like, it was even more dark. And like that we read at this house in the Northwest that we found out after we signed a lease that the five previous people or the five previous couples that lived there before us ended up divorcing. So there's definitely some gnarly mojo in that house. The neighbors have lived there for four across the neighbors live next door for 40 something years. But anyway, so I got this book. And I could just, I don't know, man, I don't know if people are doing something negative with it before what but I like I could sense dark energy. I was thinking bad things and just you know, I had to give you

an antique one if you bought like a 1913 copy that gives it 90 something years for someone to have messed with it at least once. So sure, like I think that is a valid and likely accurate experience of that object. Sure. Sure. Don't mess with those books. Absolutely not. Five previous couples got divorced. That probably has something to do with it. Absolutely. Right. There's energy in there. And then we got the book that had 90 years to be messed with. Someone messed with it. Could it be any power? Any power? Such dark forces. So much so that I think it's probably likely that he's correct. Yeah, I think there's no way around it. No, that's the only conclusion. I mean, if there is a cause and effect, obviously, do you do evil things? I don't

know the time. That's my favorite. I would be a black magician, but I'm too busy with leak project, man. I just don't have the time. I think I think there's also something quaint and tough to deal with about the idea that if you can do magic, it's accessible for $100 on that. That's kind of I've read everything about this. I love that. And here's how important this is to Rex here. Okay. This is the only time he interrupts in the entire hour and 10 minute long interview. And it's to continue this fucking story because it's not done yet. Oh, wow. Got to get this story out. Real quick, I was just going to say, so I gave it away, right? The day that I gave it away, my wife had no idea I had this book. The day I gave it away, she goes, she comes in the house and

she goes, just feels lighter in here. Do you notice that good? Yeah. I said, Oh, yeah, by the way. I just coastbook. I bought it and now we don't know it. Yeah. It's gone coincidentally. She also bought new blinds that day and we had our windows washed, put in new track lighting. No, I got rid of this book as honey. Honey, you can't. You're not going to believe this. The reason you feel better this 100 year old book I bought on eBay, I got rid of it. Some probably messed with that book. Oh, you got a promotion? Probably not important. I had a great lunch. I talked to my friend and it was a delightful time. I'm feeling a light on my feet. Absolutely. Yikes. Yeah. So he's not a black magician. I don't still really know what that means, except for

it's someone who does black magic, but now I don't know what black magic means. Well, that's interesting because Gordon's going to explain a little bit how it works. Nothing gets you off the hook for being moral. Does that make sense? You can pray for someone's death. And in the same way, and I don't, I'm not saying this is easy or benign or even recommended because they are not recommended. They are spirits who have a deeply ambivalent attitude to mankind. So it's not, I'm not saying, Hey, everyone, it's fine and it's safe. Go out and do it. It's not that at all. But it doesn't necessarily make you evil to do it. You could be evil, but you know, it's evil to pray to gay away. Like that's literally evil. So you can't get

nothing lets you off the hook for being a moral person in life. What? Yep. I mean, I'm glad that he doesn't believe in praying the gay away. Right. I'm happy for that. Right. But I don't understand the distinction between it not being necessarily evil to pray for someone's death. It's just not recommended. Yeah. I don't know. I don't get it. I don't get, I don't get the distinctions. I also, there's a bigger question that I have, and that seems to be like, all right, magic can make you invincible. Sure. But it's not able to, you can't, there's no magic spell you can do to reverse cause and effect. No, it seems like that's bizarre. Yeah. Well, I mean, you can't also let me listen,

you can break all the rules of reality, but the, the, that one, let me disagree with that premise internally. Okay. If you're invincible, you have a broken cause and effect. I don't necessarily think that's true, because if I stab you, that's a cause. It's just a different effect. It's just a different effect. This situation, the effect is the knife bounces off and you accidentally stab yourself. No, that's, that's kind of a contradiction of classical. Well, because I mean the physics of it, the physics cause and effect physics. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we get rid of those. Okay. Except when we don't. Okay. Sometimes we do, but sometimes we don't. Right. And when I say is when we do, right. And when I say is when we don't, we don't.

And that's science. Yeah. That's how it works in his moral philosophy. It doesn't come off very clearly there because he's like, it's okay to pray for somebody's death. Well, it's not advised. I mean, what he's trying to say is that a black magician is not somebody who practices black magic. It is that magic is a tool and you are a person who is using that tool, you know. So if you do bad things, it's not the magic that did it. You know, you just talk to some spirits who are very ambivalent about how they treat people. Sure. On the planet. Sure. So you can't, you can't be like, no, no, no, no, no. It's cool. I'm a black magician. You have to, you still have to be a moral person, I guess. So that's his idea of magic there. But, but there's, there's sort of an ambivalent

morality to praying for someone's death. Yeah, but not for praying away the gay. Fine. Yeah. There's very unspecific situations. I feel like there's a cause and effect and the cause is listening to this and the effect is me hitting my head on the wall. Well, I think the chat has some, some agreement with you here. Okay. So the chat strikes back. Oh, is what I named this clip. Oh, no. And, and yeah, you like, if they guide the chat rooms calling it black magic, it is, it's literally, that's what it was historically called. But it doesn't necessarily follow that you are some sort of deranged child murdering psychopath if you're, if you're doing it. Thank you. Or it doesn't mean you're losing your soul either. He's like, oh,

you've lost your soul. The devil came and visited you in a dream and that's it Rex. That's it. How dare you ban me? I didn't ban you, bro. Somebody else timed you out. I wasn't even me. I mean, I don't care. I'm like, go right ahead. You think whatever you want. Yeah, exactly. The devil can enter your dreams, whether you're doing magic or not. Great. Yep. I'm comfortable now. Yeah. So the chat never sleeping again. Back out of this sounds less like this to the chat striking back and more him striking back at the chat. Well, he's, he's like, he touched a nerve. Exactly. He kept getting little, little notes for people like, are you a black magician? And he's, he's, he seems sensitive. It's not something that he realizes. I think was people fucking with

him. He's like, you think it is? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Cause it was like a little bit of a, it was a little like meme that happened in the chat for a little while. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Of people kind of making fun of the fact that he, that's what a black magician would say. So then he, he's, he's a little overreacting a little bit. So now we're finally getting to something that Rex needs personally. Ghosts, removal. You got it. The banishing ghost, a Sumerian method of banishing ghosts. I need to know this one. There's one of the things I kind of delight in doing. And you'll find this in, in a couple of books, actually, there's a couple of different Sumerian spells in pieces of eight and chaos protocols, which are two of my like practical magic books. I'm just,

I just really like the idea of looking at kind of like the book of the dead, but that's a sort of, for the most part, they are spells for dead people to use. They're not as interesting. Whereas there's some really fun Sumerian ones that appear to do, appear to use or have confused big dogs with being kind of demons that might scare the dead. And, and I just love playing with them. But like getting rid of, what? Getting rid of negative entities is such a dumb word, but getting rid of icky spirit presences in the house. That's not dumb word. I never get enough. I have listened to that one. I played that on repeat for a while, just like negative energy is such a dumb word. icky. And you're like, there's no way that you can go to icky

spirit presences in the house and be like, well, clearly I've nailed it. I've improved on negative energy by a huge margin. So they confused large dogs with spirits. Does that mean the spell is like sit? A little bit. And also I, he doesn't explain it, but he does say, I really like playing with them. I think he's, I think he thinks, or I think he's insinuating that he has summoned the spirits of these dogs and plays with them regularly. Great. That is what I think is he, he is what he was, he was saying. It sounds whimsical. Yeah. At this point. Oh yeah. Yeah. So if you're doing magic to imagine that you're playing with dogs that aren't there, I mean, seems harmless. Well, let's, uh, let's take a look at that Sumerian spell.

Oh, you have it? Yeah. I just want to make sure that you, uh, you get it correctly. Okay. Um, so I, it is not Sumerian as far as I can see from the chaos protocol. Okay. All right. And this, it is, uh, uh, Greek magical papyri. So it goes something a little bit like this. Hail, Hermanubus, come to me. Oh, hi one. Oh, mighty one. Oh, master of secrets for those in the underworld. Oh, Pharaoh of those in a mentee. Oh, chief physician. Oh, good son of Osiris. He whose face is strong among the gods. You should appear in the underworld before the hand of Osiris. You should serve the souls of Abidos in order that they live through you. These souls, the ones sacred to the underworld. Uh, you are Anubis. You are Hermes. You are the one who went

forth from the heart of the great Agathodaman, the father of the father of all the gods. Come to the mouth of my vessel in dwell in this form dedicated to you and receive my offering and praise for I am Isis the wise, the sayings of whose mouth shall come to pass. Did, did you notice that it's quieter in here? It is a lot quieter in here. That, that voice that's always saying we got rid of all of our icky spirit presences. Wow. In this house. Wow. The super. I mean, it's crazy. This show isn't about Alex Jones anymore. Alex Jones has been lifted from us. That would be fun if we had to suddenly stop. Yeah. Okay. So yeah, that seems like a good, good spell. Yep. There you go. So we have cleared out the ghost presence in the house. Hopefully,

I've been powerful enough to help Rex from a distance as well. If he listens to the show, if he listens to the show, it should be taken care of. He can just play this. Personally, I don't know if I were to believe in ghosts, which I'm much like the spirit realm. I'm ambivalent about. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if I'd want them to leave really. You know, like if there are ghosts, sure, and there is a way of communicating with them, right? I just want to talk to them. Be their friends. I mean, I think the problem there is once you become the person who talks to ghost friendly like all the ghosts are going to come to you. Have you seen the show ghosts? Seems fun. Have you seen the sixth sense? Doesn't sound fun at all. Let me just say that I've only

seen a commercial for the show ghosts and I'm not sure if it looks fun. Yeah. I don't, I don't know. Well, they play on survivor. Did you see the Frightners? No. You ever see that one? Michael Jay Fox? Oh man, he fights ghosts. I don't want to fight a ghost. Have you ever seen 13 ghosts? I have seen 13 ghosts. That was a really good one. I don't know if it wasn't. No, it wasn't. All right, Dan. Well, we've gotten to the end. We've got our Sumerian spell. Let's bring it home. All right. We're going to close the show. Practical magic that people can use every single day. Yes. And in this case for wealth. So it's specifically an entire course on wealth magic that'll start probably about mid-January.

Sign me up. Swing, ladies and gentlemen. The legend. Right on. Gordon, thank you so much again. I really appreciate it. Check it out, ladies and gentlemen. Be excellent to each other. Hit the bell. You need to hit that bell to get access to the live feeds and be the change you want to see. Was that two Wayne's World references in 30 seconds? A swing? And to be excellent to each other? Yep. So there it is. That's impressive. There it is. That is how we bring it home. Also, Practical Magic was a Sandra Bullock movie from the late 90s. Yeah, but he's giving you wealth magic. Okay. That's what you're looking for. Of course. You are looking for, I mean, and his book is absolutely nuts. Ty and 1973 quarter to the bottom of your

shoe and walk around for six miles. Totally. But also, here's the problem with Alan Greenspan. He talks about Alan Greenspan in the chaos protocols. It's that kind of shit. Makes sense. Yeah. So we now know what the devil is, which is everything. I disagree. I don't know what the devil is. We now know how to get rid of spirits. I guess. We did it. Yeah. Is there anything else that you learned today? I don't know. You're looking overwhelmed. I feel like you don't believe in magic anymore. Anymore? No, I mean, like my position on a lot of this stuff is, like, I don't mean to be too cruel if people do believe in some stuff that helps them in their life. And I think that there is an element of benign irrationality that I think can be

fine and maybe even positive in people's lives. I resent some of this stuff also, though. And I find, I don't know. I guess, especially when you're maligning other people in scientific fields when you are using sort of clearly a subscription platform, he was saying his premium members and he's offering classes on wealth magic. Yep. You know, these kinds of things are, I find distasteful in many of the same ways that our right wing scam folk are. And I would like to sort of distinguish that from people who like, maybe have some kind of ritual thing that they like to do that somehow makes them feel better. And God bless you for it. I don't think that that's the same thing as what these people are

clearly engaged in. No. I see this like, I mean, it's a scam. Magic isn't real. And you're not going to get wealthy by taking his magic course. Well, you might, but it'll be a coincidence. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And I think what it really more is, is like, you know, I'm not going to go to a glitterbug church. Right. But I still want that, I still want somebody to tell me that if I'm a good person, I'll get rich. So it does kind of, I don't know. It seems like an incentive to be a good person. Yeah. I mean, it really, it really is a little bit of like, if you can go to Joel Osteen or you can go to this guy and it's the same basic thing. Yeah. I think that the quote unquote glitterbug church stuff has, I mean, falls into a fairly similar

category in that like Christianity or religion in general is not in and of itself a bad thing or negative. No. It is the other behaviors that are coming along with it. Right. That make it particularly distasteful. Some stuff like you just believe in magic. It could be a lot of fun. Yeah. Same with aliens and whatever. Clearly. Yeah. No, as long as you're not coming from a place or as long as you're not like actively hurting people. And even then, even the most desired, like, oh, I'm so mad and I'm a chaos magician. I'm going to fucking pray for your death. Oh, and then you'll get it. You know, it's like, you're not actually going to hurt him. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. It seems like a dead end for you as a person. It seems like a

good way to wallow in some feelings that aren't going to help you. True. And maybe there's better uses of your time. Another thing that I find that I resent a little bit about this that you've presented to me. What's that? It's not your fault, but like, I've got nothing to hold on to. No. Like there is no real specificity. You even read one of these spells and I don't, I don't, it just seemed like it was a name of Egyptian deity list. You got it. Yep. And like, I don't know what black magic is. I don't know what the devil is. I don't know why he needs ghosts out of his house. You need ghosts out of your house. I don't know any of these things. I don't have more questions than when we started because I don't care. And they didn't answer any that they raised.

No, no. So I kind of resent that a little bit. Sure. There are some interesting things along the way. I mean, I can't get enough of, I mean, that guy is just, I mean, he's fallen out of the matrix. He's having such a great time. Matrix sink. That guy has more fun than than I do. Probably. Yeah. So anyways, I mean, it was nice to not have to deal with people who are like, and gay people should be lit on fire all the time. Like it's nice. Sure. It's nice. That is, that is a pleasant little break. Yeah. So thanks, Jordan. Thanks for bringing that to our attention. Absolutely. That was fun. You got a spell. Nobody has any ghosts no more. And you cast a spell of not listening to Alex. Exactly. So that's, that's, that's great. We'll be back to talking about

Alex on Monday. Oh, indeed. It's time to sort through a bit of this bullshit. But until then, Jordan, we have a website. We do. It's knowledge fight.com. Yep. We are also on Twitter. That's right. Oh, it's at knowledge underscore fight and at go to bed Jordan. That's correct. We'll be back Jordan. But until then, I'm Neo. I'm Leo. I'm DZX Clark. I'd like to wish you all a happy dreamy, creamy summer. So dreamy, creamy. And now here comes the sex robots. Andy and Kansas, you're on the air. Thanks for holding. So Alex, I'm a first time caller. I'm a huge fan. I love your work. I love you.