Knowledge Fight - #712: The Decompression Session

Episode Date: August 8, 2022

Today, Dan and Jordan take in the events of the past couple weeks with the help of a couple guests, plaintiff's attorneys Mark Bankston and Bill Ogden.  Tune in for insights about the trial, and to learn that Bill remembers Tila Tequila's dating show.

That's our that's our theme song for the week apparently And in your knowledge fight Knowledge fight calm I love you. I love you Hey everybody welcome back knowledge fight. I'm Dan. I'm Jordan We're a couple dudes like to sit around worship at the altar of Selene and talk a little bit about Alex Jones Indeed we are Dan Jordan. Yeah Jordan quick question for you. What's up? Was your right spot buddy? My bright spot is that sweet cantina theme remix of our theme song

That just played by DJ Dan Arke. So good crushing the game with these These periodic remixes There's definitely the theme song of our trip to Austin and being able to have that incorporated into The podcast for a special maybe one off who knows I think it's Lucky we're too lucky. It's definitely lucky. Yeah Talented folks who are who are willing to create things so we appreciate it. Thank you Dan Thank you so much, Anarchy. Um, I would say my bright spot Well, it might as well be that we were on the television box. That was national television debut

Yeah, yeah, yeah, we went out we talked to we talked to the demon stelter It was you know, we weren't in the same studio so we couldn't smell him through the camera But sulfur or anything. Maybe you know, we so we can't confirm sulfur or not. Yeah, and we we also You know, we were in a studio and we were just staring at like a black wall We couldn't see him even as we were doing it which was a little unnerving. It was disconcerting Yeah, especially when I went back and saw his faces that he made during stuff. I was like, I would have said a different thing Just making mocking faces So Jordan, I mean we were on with stelter

So there's a couple of things I want to point out first One of the big questions that we got was whether or not we got to ask him about his hatred of or Alex's hatred of him And we didn't on air although he did say we could ask him that but there wasn't time He's very much aware that Alex hates him. Oh, yeah so that part we can confirm and then the second thing I wanted to bring up visa V that interview is It we are Our our parents had different responses I got a text from my dad that was about how proud he was and how I was the first

Family member to make it on the national news. Wow I don't know if that's actually true because I would imagine there had to have been some kind of Coverage of my brother's ice cream shop in the day, you know, like I would assume But I know that there was a ton of sort of local and regional stuff But I don't know if that was ever like a national spotlight, but I assume there was right, but certainly no stelter, baby No, no, definitely not. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I did I did of all people my my cousin Who is who consumes a lot of right wing news was the first person to text me? And then dare you go on the Clinton news network. No, he was like you did a great job

It was really nice of him. And yeah, my dad was you know, he was doing some preaching today So they couldn't get to see it, you know, and then I sent him a picture and they were like wow congratulations, so The conversation went went south from there Avalanche of appreciation, it's uh, you know, you take the rough with the smooth as they say But yeah, it's it's been it's been a really interesting a couple of weeks with the trial and stuff and just adding this to reality of That is yeah, it's almost hard to process I

Don't know how I feel about having makeup put on me. It was interesting. You look great. Thanks. I Yeah, it's it was all it was all a lot, but I appreciate them having us on and I appreciate that they allowed us to not play into like some of the You know like hey, why don't you do a you know to talk talk about Alex's? XY or Z thing and we're able to speak on the issue as we Wanted to and I appreciate that that's something that you know, maybe some people wouldn't think Media outlet would offer. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think we're both actually very lucky that we're not in like a Like this is the behind-the-music moment where it all starts to fall apart and we're so

100% in agreement like now fuck this shit. We're gonna say exactly what needs saying, you know Yeah, and and you know, I think I saw a little bit of feedback that it was a little bit of a shallow Interview and to that I say yeah fair enough. I mean it was six minutes, you know Like I mean a little hit like that is is not something that you can really dive too deep in and you know You got to answer your question and get done and and move along and and so Unfortunately, it doesn't you know, it may not satisfy people who want a thorough deconstruction of some of this stuff But that's I guess what the podcast is for And yeah, it was it's a treat and speaking of treats Jordan

We have for our episode today. We are thrilled To be joined once again by Mark Bankston and Bill Ogden We get to do this. I think I think Mark said in our little chat that Everybody on on this but You know, it was really I Don't know. I feel like it's kind of condescending to say an honor But it was to you know, it's very meaningful and something else. I'll be I'll always be very Thrilled to have been able to be whatever small part of

This that it was and I appreciate them so much for allowing us to have you know A little bit of an inside track on some stuff and their generosity with the listeners and and and us is is just so wonderful And I'm unbelievable. I'm glad that we are able to have this sort of button a little bit Although maybe it's a button that'll last all of sneak with it. Well, it's sneak week But you know wrapping up some of this this sort of Chapter is very nice and being able to have have a conversation with them to do that I think everyone will will enjoy I think it's great So we could belabor this longer and just chat about nothing, but I gotta be honest. It's late

I got to get this episode edited and I Don't Food Never I like bad food. Don't care. Anyway, Jordan. We'll be back soon y'all Who knows we might be sneaky as hell this week. It's sneak week. Yep Anyway, enjoy the interview Hey ladies and gentlemen, we are Back and here in in in Chicago as

Is the norm and we have a special a bit of a chat a decompression session a decompression If you if you like if it rhymes, it's good so as listeners will know we were in Austin recently for the trial true the Alex Jones Sandy Hook trial and We met a couple of fun people out couple of cool cats Just just two dudes we would they were wandering the streets They were wearing nice suits and we were like I can't believe that these these two people are not being taken care of by you Know a staff right now, and I can't believe there's no podcasts

Just absolutely them to come and share wisdom and and Alex had a security detail ten strong We'll get to zero None or or yeah better disguise security. That is true Alex's security is wandering around like bulletproof vests and fake moustache Very conspicuous half of the journalists there. We're actually running security. Did you see the ficus in the corner of the room? No, I didn't is one of their security. That's how good it is We figured this week is a sneak week We have honorarily called to collect decided that this is sneak week indeed for the sneaky snakes

This is where we sneak and we thought what better way to begin sneak week then to have a little bit of a End of the trial a narrative arc. I guess yeah, and to better to join us then Bill Ogden Mark Bankston plaintiffs attorneys for for Scarlett Lewis and Neil Hesslin. Thank you for joining us. Thank you so much Heroes for the walks certainly become Favorites right of the community absolutely So thanks for making time for us, man, I'm sure everyone's banging down your doors at this point Banging on marks. I defaulted and told him he gets to handle all of it. So this is the only this is the only interview

I'm doing no other press No, I said I'll do this one and that's it No joke though. This is the Since I walked off the courthouse grounds. This is the first time I've spoken to any sort of public media and you guys are first Public media now I'll come for you I promise I mentioned this more that this morning as we're recording this We were on reliable sources with Brian Stelter and I was just like don't cuss don't swear It was so hard for me to like not be like this guy's full of shit. I didn't scream one time one time

Yeah, I was I was yeah, it was great. That's the reason I'm here actually is because I knew if I went on CNN and the mood I'm in That's swearing to mind what's where y'all's heads at and we just gosh cloud nine right now, man I don't know. Yeah, we were I was uh, I I don't know why but this trial took more out of me Like Because every day was something else where we were like holy shit but I I feel good now, I think that We wanted a little bit of difference when it comes to the numbers breakdown

But we're extremely happy with where it said and and I think the message that the clients wanted to send was sent pretty damn clear and loud So yeah, I'm super happy now But definitely Exhaling and taking a deep breath and just kind of relaxing a little bit at this point I'm not I wasn't jumping on a private jet to go to go to New York City to do interviews That's a good point that that you bring up there too about the the numbers and such I think I think a lot of times the the reporting on this misses, you know there's a lot of flashy numbers and millions and stuff and the context of it as the message and the

actual intent and want of the plaintiffs Is kind of lost in the shuffle a little bit I mean too in the in the complications of how this actually plays out, right? Like it's it's You had people jumping on immediately. I saw 140, you know I mean, I'm sorry 45 million dollar verdict and they're and they're not exactly sure how to report it They don't understand what the caps are. They don't understand where it goes from here They don't understand anything about what's happening and then what people have to remember is is Jones threw the company into bankruptcy like mid-trial

Yeah, and and lifted the state for this particular trial. So everything's going to bankruptcy court You know Yeah, you've got a practical cap on this where you've got 750 per claim and then you've got two defendants per claim So so as the cap is applied, you're looking at like 4.5 million up on top of the 4.1 from the compensatory Plus the 1.5 that they've paid in sanctions plus a couple hundred thousand. They still have to pay in sanctions About a million and interest on the 4.1 bingo So you're looking at like just maybe 10 million or over is basically what you're looking at on a base value But the thing is gone

Yeah, you may have wiped out the bitcoin but like like like here's the thing about that though is that That because they put themselves into bankruptcy And and that means that the potential appeals that you could have if you're going to be doing those over the next couple years They have to be like baked into the value of how that gets done up in the bankruptcy estate So the actual value is is going to be higher than what we actually have under the cap because that appeal The the potential to have that that cap declared non applicable to this case is is gives enough value Oh, that's an interesting thought. I hadn't considered that. That's really interesting. Yeah Well, I mean the whole thing is to leverage your ability to appeal this and especially because this would be like the golden case to appeal

This on because you have a Damage cap on a case where there was a default judgment and there was even presumed damages in the nature of those claims That if you now do a constitutionality challenge to this like it's the day like it we've been waiting for a case The sad part is that's not going to happen We're never going to get to the spring court because we're going to get valued in the bankruptcy court So you leverage the appeal on that value and the thing is is you've got you got matty coming in with his Was a nine plaintiffs you've got two more and with pausner and dale arosa and believe me by that time when that steak It's lifted. We are just going to absolutely kick their teeth on that case. I mean that that case the damages in that case are

Fucking stunning. I mean it is it is really just horrific and it is our self-ontains misidentification case And that's right. Yeah, that didn't go away. Right. Yeah, that never went away This is nice to bring that claim right and so I mean that's just what I like There's a clip going around the world right now about like we're dividing up the corpse of info wars in the bankruptcy state That's what you have You for somebody who claims to not want to court attention in media You seem to be dropping these bombs that just like

I talked to one I don't I don't want to be I don't want any media attention. So I'm going to throw pipe bombs from the top of this roof Well, I mean the first time at a time, you know, I don't want any attention though The first time we talked to you you were you said I eat what I kill As a plaintiff's attorney, it's like you just can't stop yourself from these lines. Yeah, just like The funniest part and I'll tell you the story Probably five years ago, maybe six years ago mark tried a case

Called herald adams and he tried it. He put his heart into it. He tried it and with his dad And they got screwed and uh, he got done with that case and he was dead serious. He's like I don't I'm never trying another case This isn't for me. This isn't my thing And uh, I think this is the first time he was in a courtroom since then. Yeah mark Oh, no, I've had a couple since then that went well, but like Yeah, that's what I mean some of them first or second But like like yeah, there's been a couple where I've been like, okay, that's that's rewarding, right? And then you start participating in some of these bigger trials, right? And yeah, you had a couple open mics before you got

Yeah, exactly. You did it right, right, right. You got a little good feedback and then you're ready. Yeah You spend your life You spend your life second-chairing trials, right? And you're a young plaintiff's lawyer and you you know how trial works like the back of your hand Um, but to actually be in this moment this thing this I mean, it's it was surreal It was absolutely surreal and and I did I was I got too emotionally invested in prior cases until when they don't go Well, you you you take a hit. Yeah, of course. That's what I imagine I imagine Ray Nall is having a very interesting surreal experience

But in the complete opposite direction like boy, I thought I was good at this. Oh, this isn't gonna be good Well, it's funny because now I in my opinion I I would say mark now has the most famous lawyer moment of the last decade at least absolutely That will stand out as something that was on television, you know that people saw and that it was just rocked everybody It's the new if the glove glove doesn't fit It really is And I do you know what burgery is, sir? Oh, that's so good. That's your question. You're not supposed to ask but uh, no objection was made At that point because because mark had slapped Ray Nall and the both mark and the judge had slapped Ray Nall

So many times I really feel like at the end. He was like, I just don't even want to stand up I'm not gonna feel good about what happens here I mean What's wild about that? He shouldn't have absolutely he did and he and he didn't understand the playing field He thought he was gonna come in here and figure, you know, even the bad press is good press and no, it is not Uh, you don't want us to google that guy's name right now if you're hiring the lawyer and What's weird about that moment in that courtroom was not only was it a Pitch perfect like law and order moment not only was it against one of the most evil dudes in america

Who sputtered and coughed his way through it? But the fact that the moment itself focused so intently on opposing counsel that even the the law and crime Camera person who's ever doing the camera in there like does this dramatic kind of pans down to Ray Nall Or he's sitting there stroking his skin. Well, what the heck is happening right now? It's theatrical I tell you I saw I saw the whole thing play out on the daily show the night after I did it And I was I was obviously on a high but then I was like for a second I almost felt bad for the dude because I know all of his friends is you know, as alex would say is liberal friends

I I differ a little bit on that I do feel bad like I think that he inherited a case that was shit already There's nothing to do about it And I he probably took that case without Them appreciating where the case was and then just bomb after bomb after bomb was dropped on him And I do I kind of feel bad because I think in five years And at like at a at an airport in Atlanta, somebody's gonna be like, oh, you're the guy with the Cell phone records like do you mean when he's working at the Cinnabon in Atlanta? Is that what you're

I I just I it's rare that something like that happens, especially on such a big stage because in civil Talking about it's rare that happens Rare I mean like like like rare plus, you know I came home and I have a kind of rough around the edges cousin who I would not expect to be plugged into this sort of Thing normally and he came right up to me and he was like what the heck is going on with that lawyer and he goes to me Um, man, I would not hire that guy to represent me in the pepsi challenge like at the ball Like would not do it That is wow

The ripple effects of this are unreal and I did I'll tell you I felt bad for a moment But I need to tell a story that that I've told on the record in court So again, not telling tales out of school But the first time I met Renau back in March when he was coming in to defend their other lawyer who got found for tampering evidence And I think that's originally why they brought in a criminal lawyer He he walked up to me outside on on the steps now in front of the courthouse And he he tried to do some sort of psycho Psyop stuff, you know mess with your opponent's heads kind of stuff

And then he eventually tells me something along the lines of of like you're never getting a dime off this case Or your clients are never getting a dime off this case And like you're about to do a bunch of work ha ha hinting at this fraudulent bankruptcy He's about to file and then that shit just collapses on itself all of everything goes south He ends up owing having his client owe a million dollars in sanctions which he pays in the middle of trial They actually hand me that check and get that on over. Um, and and now he ends up with this moment Yeah, it's just deserts You if you were to come in in this case and try to defend it like with um

Some sort of principled advocacy that's one thing But if you're coming in just to be the bag man for alex jones proto fascist madman like whatever no you get every bad thing That's coming to you and right now. Oh my god. Are the things dropping on him right now He's kind of the open connect a kid do the show cause hearing for discipline all of that Jones has actionable malpractice claims against him. Roger stone is begging him to sue him Saying, you know, it's the same shit. It's a false flag again It's it's eric holder put this guy and somehow weaseled him into jones's confidences and like intentionally out of Jokes about that. Yeah, honestly. I think

Now has he has an actionable uh defamation claim against roger stone. They should just all end up soon You'd be fantastic, but it's all like this is going wild I don't I can tell you there was there was this little part of fear of me that said when the bankruptcy came in And then when we had this verdict and then I know what's about to happen them in the next couple months I was like guys your show is not long for this world because he is going down the tubes very very fast But what is nice what is really going to savor every moment is this? Downfall this exit of jones from the american stage is going to take a considerable amount of time and expose them to a Considerable amount of danger. You are going to have content for the next year that is just gold. It's unreal

It's it's so poetic and like we're finally it's finally happening guys. That's what I'm saying. It's finally happening Yeah, and I think I think one of the things that's really uh important about that is that as it happens Probably because it'll be a little bit protracted There will be so many opportunities for the inside of the sausage to be understood a little bit more by the public Which I think could be incredibly helpful in teaching people about these sorts of actors and how they operate So you can understand other people like them and avoid Falling for the same tricks from just another face

Well, I can tell you uh, uh, west and cahill want to come talk to y'all and they can do some educating Uh, and and and if you think i'm a little blue on your podcast west is the guy who said ass in the courtroom And I was like absolutely not no like Was something about his tennessee draw and something about the whole posture the tenor of the whole damn case He got away with saying about jones putting his ass up on the witness stand and like it flowed. It actually works I believe he said In that and when west did that

He just let it rip that was everything that he had emotionally He had practiced it a couple times with this the night before and it was it wasn't like that and that was It's weird because this trial the way it progressed was like Kyle crossed oh and it was an absolute bloodbath and everybody's like, oh man. That's what I came here for and then mark Via alex jones reintroduces the term perry mason to the world And all these young kids know what that means now And then scarlet takes the stand and is in my opinion the most powerful moment I will ever be a part of

Dug in and just looked right at alex and and just spoke to him. There wasn't There wasn't an objection, but there was also no questions being asked. She was just talking Yeah, what's right now? I'm gonna do like objection. You know Yeah, I'm gonna win this case by objecting to her. Yeah, alex said like she can monologue and I can't it's like Yes, because your attorney didn't That was his choice Yeah, so we get that and then here comes west ball and so west had He was the only one of us that could do the the parents without crying and like bad

Me and Kyle both were like, I can't do it mark was gonna do it and that's a kind of kind of toward like mid-trial mark was like, yeah west you should probably do both and uh, so west had that so he didn't get west is you know Everybody's got their own style and west is definitely the most kind of cavalier maverick type style And when cross happens, it's just a different type of of tone and so He didn't get to show that and then all of a sudden he took the the closing and just I mean Layed it all out there and it was it was that was by far the best closing out of her

And it's probably a little bit unfortunate that it's you know, so overshadowed by the parry mason moment, you know that like It's almost like no one's talking about the ass. Yeah The overshadowing is insane because we're not talking about the fact that for the first time ever We played a clip of the defendant calling the judge a pedophile We all forgot about that. Nobody's talking about it. We all forgot that the defendant played We played a video of the defendant Calling the jury a bunch of blue collar simpletons in the middle of trial like that's true Those two things are insane and they're not in the top five

Yes Calling uh, uh neil, uh on the spectrum. Oh my god. Yeah crazy. We're not talking about that anymore because so many like so many Kind of just huge moments kept happening in this trial Um, but most I mean obviously the parry mason one because ali said, yeah nice try on the parry mason and then mark's like Oh, you have no idea what I'm saying I I was I was gonna ask you guys How do you feel because I feel like ultimately the jury did an amazing job because of the amount of bullshit That is barraged at them in such a short period of time that their ability to kind of like

But at least process it into where it went. I feel like it's kind of almost amazing in a way Did you guys feel that similarly when they're really you chose them? Right um, and that jury was a broad mix of different backgrounds of people And they were none of this bullshit stuck them for a second They were on it from square one and there was basically like one juror who was who was a little You know hesitant about certain of the ideas of of I don't know free expression not necessarily free not necessarily even free speech But like just sort of like hey, you can compensate people

But you also just kind of have to tolerate evil businesses existing sure thing And but but like all every other jurors saw through the like immediately was These people are scum. This is just absolutely horrible. So we once we were able to talk to them They gave us their feedback after the trial Um, it was clear the message they were sending for 100 and and we didn't we really didn't know because like you say You know, my brother actually told me about this. He was he was saying this trial It's like it's like trying to get your mom to start watching the marvel cinematic universe And you like for all these fucking characters like why is Harry's style showing up at the end of Eternals?

Like what none of this is making sense. Steve put in a big credit scene Yeah It doesn't think my brother said man It's just like the mcu movies man Yeah, and you sure as hell don't want to miss the pros credit scenes every day because that's where the real stuff goes down And it's true every time every day where she left the courtroom something crazy would happen in the end But no, they got it completely Yeah, he was about to get attacked and maybe lose his life and then I stepped in

Although one publication described me as like one of the larger plaintiffs lawyers, I'm like Give me something like folk like or you know, give me something that Makes me sound like a get off in some linemen. I like to think I'm a little I don't I don't think you saved his life necessarily But I do think you might have saved his license because if if reynell really did go after him I have no doubt marco isn't gonna be like can I get the cops nearby? Like I don't think that's how it's gonna go The reason I stepped around is because as the as they both started melding back and mark Mark, you know, will you talk to me and the cameras?

So funny, you know, unless you were in jury selection, you didn't know where that came from Hold on. Let me tell that story because not all the Not all listeners kind of understand this right? So let me step this this seminal moment of him flipping me off and doing the whole thing Is that Immediately proceeding that I had basically managed to have a large swath of his evidence exclude because he just Doesn't know his way around civil law poster board Yeah, it was I got all of his videos out. He was upset and he'd also just been cheered out by the judge for three different things

He was he was hot that day And so like as we're leaving the courtroom, he gets like right up in my face like seriously up in my face like eighth grade schoolyard stuff like where he is like right up in there and and like we're having to like Kind of diffuse it a little bit but so what I say is It looks on the camera like I'm being super super reasonable to him I'm like, hey Federico. Will you talk to me?

People who don't watch the jury selection though is that this dude started jury selection by going up to every juror Being juror number one miss miss miss Rodriguez, whoever it was right, you know, miss Rodriguez Will you talk to me and they'd be like, uh, uh, uh, yeah, I guess and then before they could even say anything Go to the next juror number two. Will you talk to me? Juror number three. Will you talk to me and he did this for 16 straight jurors? And then it got so goddamn awkward that he would just be like third row And I said that to him which on the camera looks ostensibly like I'm being a peacemaker and trying to calm him down

It was just an absolute kick to him. Like it was just Your control went a little yeah, so he shot the bird, but what you'll notice in that in that video I have stopped paying attention to him by that moment. I'm looking over talking to somebody else I didn't even know he did it until the next day Um, and yeah, the judge was absolutely furious about him doing all that. Um, that was I see them going toe to toe and I I I'm watching it and then I see just cameras starting to focus and I'm like, oh I don't want to look like I like we got we got to get this that's why that's why I kind of popped in because I could see like

10 different jurors Cones and cameras and I was like, yeah, exactly. I was I was just whoring myself to the camera But at the same time like I didn't want mark to look to like not have the white gloves on When it came to you know, whatever this was going to end in so I was like, oh, hey, let's just calm down and we'll have a phone call later Yeah, there's a great picture that I saw of like the two of you Mark and Ray Nall and bill you're just in the background looking on like There's just a look into your face. I'm like, well, well, here we go. Yeah, I was just like mark Please know the cameras are on please don't say anything

It's just so funny to me not least of which because that wasn't like the middle of the trial That was day fucking one. Yeah Money Yeah, I was under a skin right from the get-go. I mean it was it was right on that it was right from the get-go Um, and it just got worse every every day and you have to understand looking back on it I knew what I had Right, I knew what I had I knew what he had given me and I knew you also You also had to wait like a couple more days before

Matured as it were I had to wait for that clock to run out and I said this I said this on twitter But I mean it is it is something that kind of it is hard to wrap my mind around if the defense had made no defense Those text messages wouldn't have been allowed that the trial had been over in a week, right? So Doing this. Yeah. Yeah, and not just that but the even after if after the trial you wouldn't have been able to use them You could have turned them over, right? But you wouldn't have had that legal reason Exactly

Yeah, exactly and I could have never trapped jones into double ceiling his his lie on one of the text messages And what's wild is made that choice get this By the day we were going to rest That day I was I was free and clear I had him and I had jones under subpoena and I could have put him on the stand And I didn't I rest Because I knew I knew they were going to call during cross That's when you pull it. That's when you pull it out that way because you want them to do that Bullshit song and dancer they did where they tried to humanize the guy or made something that he did reasonable

You don't want them cleaning up what you just did and you'll notice when renault got devastated on that He stood up and asked just a couple of questions and they were basically questions designed to protect himself Yeah, and did you use it? Or mixed Am I a good lawyer? I'm a good lawyer, right alex. I'm a good boy Like I you just turned over things we handled it you trusted that nobody And it's like totally in contradiction to what he testified in deposition a hundred percent But it doesn't matter you he just I mean think about that guys

You are you are sitting there and that happens to you and jones gets off the stand and you have to close now You are a lawyer with all that weighing down on you, right? That's all part of this too And and I noticed that even during the closing arguments when kyle was presenting his closing arguments renault is on his laptop And I can see just enough of the glare of the screen to see the giant Costcov logo on the bottom of an email And so I know that that renault while kyle is closing is having to feverishly communicate with the costcov lawyers about the medical records That he should not eat Jesus. And so this is just a while. I've never seen anything

I think in a circumstance like that. It's time to tear larynx. I think um At that point, you you know snickers isn't going to cut it. No, you need something My larynx is really bad So the best part was the the the law the hard cough right at the end is like is what everybody's seeing on like a social media right now I guess but the grumblings that were happening throughout the development of the questioning like no Remember you had a depot and I asked you and you said you pulled it down into the search bar. He's like Oh It was like he was just seeing how many how many marbles he could put in his mouth. I'm still talking

My favorite answer in that exchange is bunny bunny with cough drops When he says that he has multiple cell phones with that number. I fucking love that. That's fantastic when he just came up with stuff like that on the spot Is it picture me just like doting on mark as he's doing? I'm just smiling like fuck. Yeah It's exactly what I thought it was is so much better than what I thought it was gonna be You're my hero mark Look, no, even with this outcome the clients like nothing could have happened in the trial exciting and the outcome happens They're still they're they're thrilled. They're over the moon, right? They it's like it's like a rock has been lifted off of them They're like

I wanted to talk a little bit more about that I want to make sure we touched on that as opposed to you know, like And that's why look that's why our spirits are so high right now Is because there was an absolute celebratory mood among neo and scarlet and their family like it was That is everything i've ever wanted. Yeah, and part of it does come down to that There was such a dramatic repudiation of jones in the courtroom where he fell into space that adds to it But but the entire thing because they know what's happening now They know where things are going. They know the other cases that are coming

They know everything about and they all of it just makes them feel like they just put a battering ram through the fortress And it's all crumbling down and like now i'm on literal when I say in some ways It was like they were seeing the sunshine again for the first time. Yeah, I mean they were They were really seeing a future where they weren't constantly thinking about this where they weren't having to like Feel like because it is this is the real important thing that I remember about What scarlet told me is that when you're a parent you it's your job to protect your child And and she was like I couldn't be there on December 12th 2012 I had to protect him and and so when he died it became my job to protect his legacy

That was my job now and that's what I've made my whole life about And that's what i'm trying to do with the movement to counteract this stuff But you can't you feel like every time you see this jones stuff every time you have these people contact you every time it happens You feel like you're failing your child again and again and again And she's like it's over now the only the absolute most batshit crazy people believe this now Everybody else has moved on from it has become toxic and not it's done and and to see them So happy about that. Oh my god There is a small part of me that maybe i'm just such a pessimist that I worry a little bit about people being redoubled

By the consequences that come to alex, you know, like it being a galvanizing thing of of folks harassing more I hope that's not the case But there's a small part will be based on how he reacted to it all which was uh, you know, I do believe the parents and You know, he he is as half-assed of apologies as he's made You know, he did on on to some extent at least on the stand 100% kind of repudiate all the dumb stuff he's been saying Well and on his show he was saying that he wanted to have scarlet on and that he supports her movement She's a wonderful woman. Yeah, which I find to be

That was before the punitive No, I found that to be one of those moments that I wish more people had talked about is like That idea of alex inviting them on their show on his show is so disgusting to me The idea of having them on saying like I guess borderline nice things and then I'm almost going to Assume that he would be like and also, you know, I'm I'm right to question this whole thing sooner or later And then sell and sell his bullshit like that disgusts me on a level I can't even comprehend when I think about yeah, I will say this though scarlet's reaction to that was If it will get to just one person to support the movement further

I mean like she's literally my hero really is I that is she is such a strong person neil as well um, and and they do it in different ways but but her You know involvement in in the The choose love movement is uh, is is impressive when you look at what her story is. Yeah Everything about her is impressive. I know You guys might be in a better position to make this uh council, but I would advise her not to go The whole invitation was of course

Borderline offensive from jones, but jones is a madman So whatever but what's really offensive to me is I expect that from jones What I did not expect us to hear cross-examined of the plaintiffs of well Did you ever try to get with jones and work this out and work your trauma with alex fucking jones? Did you ever try to do that miss louis and i'm just like you're disgusting and like you're just straight up disgusting I don't know like that in the quoting the anti-nazi poem in the end And you don't even know he did not Yeah, first they came. Yeah, like he just did the whole thing and it's like

As you say that we looked at each other like no fucking ways to get this Is that like it's first they came for the socialists and for then they came for the communists like alex hates communist He would come for the communist Yeah, the poem made alex the com communist in the trial What's so much about it it casts neon scarlet and their lawyers as literal nazis. That's what we are We are the first road towards extermination of the jurors and then like what the fuck are you doing like I just I can't It's probably it's probably more poorly thought through than like intentionally like getting that across That was uh, I assume they probably did that that because you could that poem is much more applicable to a criminal trial

Yeah, sure. Yeah. Yeah, you know the prosecutors are you know the a government is coming for the people for this that and the other Probably just like he went on to use that a few other times. Yeah. Um, and I went to the apa website I think that's what he did. You know, he couldn't find the actual But yeah, that was uh an interesting quote, especially with jones's Especially if we had played more of jacob since depot Of all the decisions that reynaul made which were terrible and all of them were the one that really I'm it caught my breath because I was in the court that day, but when he decided to cross examine uh

Both neil and scarlet. I I gasped I was like there's no way you can possibly think this is a good legal strategy to badger to badger the people that were we're talking about you defaming like that's insane Interesting strategy on. Yeah. Well, I will say this though. We can't say everything he did was bad because He did give you the text. Yeah Well, and he held us on the compensatory damages a little bit You know, we asked for a lot. We knew we weren't gonna get that much, right? You you want to set, you know a high bar and work down, but I mean 4.1 was

Significantly less than what we would want it there made up for it on the on the punitive side But walking out of of that I had to say like fuck as much as I hate, you know Hated how he tried the case and how many mistakes he could have prevented You know, he I mean that isn't from anything he did That's from jurors being Conscious of what the situation is and want to send a message of of punitive versus compensatory, right? To the jurors 4 million dollars

To give these people 2 million dollars a piece is more money than they've seen in their lifetimes or ever. We'll see right Like it's a huge number for them. And then that is another That is another kind of point about that is that One of the hard things that you guys one of the hard jobs I'm assuming you guys had was trying to impress upon these people that 150 million dollars Is not a huge amount of money. Do you know what I mean? Like yeah, that is what he made he made twice that in a year if he makes close to a million dollars every day He made twice that in a year

That's not a huge amount of money In thing is you you put on a certain case at trial based on the evidence that's really out there in front of you based on What what his revenues are what his net worth is? The reality is is mr. Johns is a shitty businessman and like if we get if if we hit 10 million bar We know anything above that is just messaging at that point because because once you we're starting to talk 10 million You're starting to average those out to the laffordy plaintiffs in the pot. Yeah, he's wiped out. It's done There's no more info wars. There's no more Alex Jones. There's no there's no super bunker of gold hidden somewhere that like it's not that That's not what's happening here

Well, and there's rippling effects of those like kinds of judgments that that will just impact his business in in ways that are You know not just directly you have to pay this there are other things That will have those those like the ball rolling down the hill for him Listen years years ago. I buried a million bitcoin on an island in Barbados We got to go pick it up if the evidence little streams If the evidence that's out there, right? If the evidence that's out there that can be used to surmise Hey, this guy should have a hundred to two hundred million dollars

Assuming he's not a total moron, right? Like that's basically the economist conclusion If you don't it's on you Right, if you don't it's on you exactly and if that evidence is is real if all of this isn't just illusions Like all of the smoking mares if that's real He's the people are going to jail like I need you to understand that It's it's it's almost certainly like vastly less Right in our opinion Just

Based on the thumb evidence that we have in front of us because nobody can know the real truth until we're into this bankruptcy situation Yeah, if if if we're if if all of this does surmise to be right that there should be a hundred two hundred million dollars That conclusion leads to jail, right? And here's why I don't think you have to qualify that Alex Jones stood on the stand under oath and said two million dollars will wipe us out That's true. You understand like the rules Saying that because that's true. The other thing is a lie. I'm saying that that thing is also untrue And there's a third truth somewhere in there, right?

Everything is a mess exactly, right? It's never a or b. It's l and it's six z's minus four I can understand the temptation by somebody like renaught to attempt to inject into the first part of the trial Claims that alex has a loan network. I can understand the rationale for wanting to do that I can understand why jones wants to say that on the stand what I can't believe is that they allowed it to happen that jones gave Testimony under oath about his financial condition before a bankruptcy. They're seeing that that is yeah That seems unwise. Yeah, it is definitely unwise and and so that's what I'm saying is that that if if any of this If he was lying then then he's in a lot of trouble. That's the answer and so I don't know

We have attorneys counsel here on a less prisony note I will say that the amount of help and support that we had throughout this trial from Like y'all have to have the most loyal fan listening base of all time. I mean There were multiple people Sending us clips that were in live time of when they were being put out by info wars We had the connecticut lawyers were helping us out as much as they could they were watching we had You know lawyers that were friends with from that did the the fetzer trial for lenny posner They came down and helped with the last few days

We had friend lawyers that came in in and out that were helping our bankruptcy lawyers were there. They were helping Uh, my girlfriend was helped me like prep the the medical expert that I put on dr. Lubitz she and kind of really helped us with him getting cross it was Just the amount of people that were willing and offering all of this stuff During the trial was insane. I'm that was the best part. Let's juxtapose that with alex who had And he had he had some lawyer friend apparently who came to the courthouse And didn't know who adam lanza was so he had a brain trust too, you know, he had a lot of help

Right Real talk. How was uh, how was the old dude? Was the old dude the psychopath? I thought he was the rey knoll's Yeah, rey knoll's mentor. Was he Joey man? Joe man So I will say this He he didn't talk much. He was an ominous presence. He was terrifying The the the times that he spoke with me were two times one

When neil got off the stand, I waited in the hallway with him while the jurors had their questions We're submitting the questions And he was coming in from the bathroom right before we got started and he looked at me He said can I shake your client's hand and I said, yes, and he shook his hand. He said I'm so sorry for all of this And he was anyone about Um, I don't care. I want to throw him out the window No, you can't shake my client's hands Can't absolve yourself of the bullshit you're carrying around. Fuck you

The hand the hand was out But neil's hand was out already What a good person The second time it happened was Mark and rey knoll had Just got done with some sort of battle in front of the judge And it didn't go their way and I went to the bathroom and he was next to me And I just looked over and I looked back and he goes

Man, it's like watching a couple of gladiators go at it in there. And I was just like what a psycho No, you're insane. You're insane. We're not gladiators There was one gladiator. We demanded him unshake neil's hand He was like, man like a couple of gladiators going at it. I was just like I was one gladiator and then there was a it was not a gladiator Uh, the only interaction I had when Russell pro stabbed Joaquin Phoenix in the throat. Yeah, that's what this was. Yeah The only interaction I had with with with old joe was uh Uh, rey knoll come rushing out of the room to get on the phone with paddus and screaming yell about that. Um, uh

You know, joe was still in the courtroom for a minute after that And at this point, they're just running out of the room because they know the text have been disclosed, right? That's what they're about to go. That's what we're supposed to go talk to paddus about But uh, but joe still standing there and he's kind of standing there in a day He's looking at me So I take the opportunity to just turn over to him and I just look him right in the eye and I say hey By the way, I should also let you know that within those directories was contain the entire Confidential psychiatric medical records of the laffordy plan as well as all of their confidential depositions

Which neither you or mr. Randall are allowed to have so that seems like another problem that you're probably going to need to tackle Immediately, I've I've gone ahead to notify the claim of the plaintiffs council in connecticut that has happened And then I'm just imagine joe like pulling his collar Absolutely Just looks at me with don knot's eyes. I mean he is just there Not Nice nice visual Old references

Cracks himself out of it and just hightails it out of the room and I so I never actually had a An interaction only a if I'm him I maintain eye contact and just step backwards out of I slowly go underneath the little pew there just slide right down and there I am you can't show me anymore I'm invisible well while we're talking about other lawyers. I need to touch on this because there was uh, bobby barns went on info wars and He he had some choice words about you mark. He called you a leprechaun On that demon demon leprechaun. Yes, but also which I think is a positive compliment on he was so

He was so confused by the moment where you yelled out bobby barns He was talking about that was great. That was fantastic I was coming down into that court. We had just had a really good bit and I come back in there and there he was He was sitting in there and it was because I had just been back just to like maybe 30 45 minutes before Watching a video with our judge of barns giving a simulated opening statement and talking about pedophiles and stuff like this And then with the judge and I was like look I at that point I brought it up because I wanted to ask mr. Ray. No

I look nobody wants a gag order, but like now stuff is getting said about the judge Can you get a hold of your client and in his his slapstick version of a lawyer? Can you please do something about that and of course his answers? No Right like nobody right. I really don't think you could like yeah Like I don't I don't actually think that's an unreasonable answer on his part because like barns listens to no man So and I mean he said like I mean he told me personally I don't think there's any probably wouldn't have any problem saying this is is that that he spoke to barns about this

Like he tried yeah, right like there's no he doesn't work this time He's certain rain always certainly not pleased when a couple days later I'm literally playing to the jury like video of barns talking shit saying this is all rigged to a script a literal script There's videos of them Connor pedophile judge on fire all this up He doesn't want any of that But there he is Bobby's just sitting in the gallery and I noticed he took off He only stayed that one day like he was in I think it was just for Owen, right? I mean it was there because he's Owen's lawyer. Yeah. Oh, it's I don't think that's true

I think I heard that on info wars, but that doesn't mean it's true. Yeah Because that's paddock's has been his lawyer for all that stuff and so I think maybe that's because he's on his way out He was just going in for a sec. Yeah. Oh, wow He was insisting that you're obsessed with him And that no one has called him Bobby in uh in since he was a child And I don't know I think I've pretty routinely called him Bob. Yeah, I think we're pretty I think we're right on top of the Bob started that though. I think Bobby bottle service Yeah

You call him bottle service, which is a nick krolls get back in the day Yeah, yeah Because bill loves playing around with people's names and so when we know his name was robert barns when he came Bill straight up in depot just started calling him bob and like and then it turns out like he We were in a depot I think it was like two three months after barns got out of the case and there's another lawyer there and like bill referred to like him as bob barns again to the witness and the witness like are you mean robert barns and there was like Um, or something like there does he go by bob robert and and one of the lawyers goes. Yeah. No, he goes by bob and bill is like

Because he knows the play of his name. Uh, but so yeah, bobby got devoured Uh, I would say I would say that I am obsessed with him in exactly the same way I am obsessed with the few skits from I think you should leave and then I just cannot stop laughing I might just watch him over and over and over again Um, but that's that's basically the same of lawyers, right? Exactly

You think that we're staging this but he's literally falling out of this coffin every time So apparently the john oliver, uh, skit just aired and call said it was hilarious So we'll have to move back to the dean in the background. Yeah Wave reviews. Yeah already I don't think things are done between me and barns. I think he's gonna still keep talking on the show and we're gonna see Yeah, no shit. He is. I love it. Yeah, I think he I think he is going to be obsessed and come up with a fun Nickname for you. I mean the thing that I just can't get over with this Is that is that he is the guy?

That alex had to write an affidavit about to a court to say he has messed up everything and please don't punish me Because we are getting rid of him and we will never have to hear from him again And then his corporate representative comes in and testifies that they're thinking about suing him for malpractice And then now As all the rats scurry from the ship sort of like a juliani situation. He's the last one left, right? Like there's no there's a sinking ship. Everybody knew to get off it There's 10 lawyers who all made smart decisions to get out of the case some voluntarily some not but like Waves isn't hosting something on info wars, you know

Marco's a little bit of an not an apology but a little bit of a kind word towards brad I absolutely do You were fairly nice to him. That was my sense There was no nicety to it, but it was less hostile That might be what I was picking up on less hostile When I'm a lawyer, I'm every participant on season one of survivor. I'm like, I'm not here to make friends Like that's like I don't need more friends. I got friends point of order. I am a survivor historian and they were not doing that on season one

It took season one three season one. They did not know what the show wasn't it? I think we might actually die on this are they gonna let us die Richard won't stop taking his dick out and Rudy seems to be racist. I don't know what's going on You're taking me back and it's because of Rudy being a nap. I don't know like who what are we doing here? Yeah, people saw that first season and they're like, we don't want to make friends with anybody on this fucking show I don't want to make friends for like the dating shows. That was the the like rock of love. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that kind of thing Yeah, yeah, I just want to fuck right michael's Yeah, I don't want to make friends. It was a flavor flage show same deal. They are making friends. Yeah

Okay, um Lot of love shot it Yeah, yeah When it was the bisexual version It was There goes deep in the crate for this one You just said don knots eyes earlier. That's true Really west

No, I will I will say um That I want to say something nice about brad because if it wasn't for brad's Forthrightness and honesty as an attorney We likely would not have discovered some of the other malfeasance that occurred and when when the when the shit was hitting the fan on that brad reuse was not about to risk his license for these shenanigans and he didn't And and so I got to say something nice about him and then he withdrew when it was time to withdrew when it became apparent to him That any effective representation earlier if he didn't listen to me He could get out. It's about to get bad. I'm telling you he got one more paycheck

One more paycheck don't want to be a part of this and uh, and he didn't But no, I will say brad was the only one he I mean he inherited the shit that everybody inherited or you know That that was already made and he tried but there was just with us pressing the way that we were Excuse me with mark pressing the way that he was You know, there was he couldn't he couldn't keep up with that plus go back and try to figure out the mess that was made And it finally he was like with no client, you know, which what appeared to me to be no client in her You know helping him or control. He was just like I'm out. Sorry See this this gets to another thing about the sort of reynault dynamic is that like, you know, in the same way that Reeves

inherited a lot of this reynault did as well But he he probably was the least lucky of all of them because he was caught holding the hot potato. Yeah And as the lawyers shit, but the lawyers progressed and you know bad behavior kept happening You guys were of the mind that like sanctioning the lawyer is maybe something that also should be As opposed to just sanctioning alex right and that is my understanding wasn't really the case with some of the earlier lawyers Who behaved poorly and so reynault kind of got a little bit of the shaft there Well, and that's because you we truly and I will say this to anybody our firm we we don't press sanctions against lawyers We we just don't unless

The lawyer unless we can clearly see that the client had nothing to do with this. It was purely the lawyer You know, there's and there's been very few instances of that But um, but yeah at that point we were kind of fed up Yeah, that that is that is into there weren't that many instances of purely lawyer Like without right because I mean even some of even some of reynault's Examination I really could hear the voice of alex and info wars behind it like hey We need to ask these questions No, I apologize. Absolutely. Yeah, no there and whenever he started whispering in reynault's ear in the middle of his

That was absurd What are you doing? Mr. Trump sit down In an emergency hearing To seal a bunch of records that should not have been sent and he's over there just Try telling her she's a pedophile that'll do it So there's there's some lingering questions that I feel like we can Address a little bit more now that the case is over and one of them surrounded the

My involvement in the deposition When I came down for that one of the questions that we have not really been able to answer was The question of whether or not they recognized me Um And part of the reason for this was because they didn't until they read the transcripts Exactly, correct. And then this was something that I knew that we couldn't talk about But do you want to say do you want to explain that a little bit? What happened there?

Well, but this was a little bit of drama that uh, I had to zip my lip on And so and look we were sneaky about it because we always are uh, we we had uh We had on the street Um, we have the ability to bring experts whether test fine or consulting into depositions They have to sign a protective order though. And so we had to have to hand sign a protective order. Um And we brought that with other documents that we were giving to brad reeves and as we were at the start of the deposition He was just too busy to understand Or even care to want to like look too closely at it

So he's got the acknowledgement of the po and he's got some of these other documents He isn't like, okay now i'm gonna start googling who this dan freezing guy is and and and George, I mean, I mean, uh, uh brad doesn't know at all. Like he's not plugged into this at all And so it was interesting There's an ideal we gave him a lot of good advice And and and jones didn't recognize him either. And and so it was randons in the room Think you might have done this for alex's. Yes. Yes for alex's. He was that's right. That's right. He came on this Saturday You weren't there for that one. Yeah, it scared me. Yeah, so randons. It was in the room too

And he doesn't know like he nobody knows who you are in this case So they just assumed he was a normal every day workday expert in there Albeit, you know a little bohemian looking but like heavily bearded He's a craft brewery of experts I will admit that we are a very beardy firm as a law firms go we're extraordinarily beardy That's my that's my wife laughing in the background at that. Um, and Yeah, so I think he just kind of fit in in a weird way like he's just okay This guy's just extra beardy like that's all that's going on here

Didn't know red flags go off But when they get the transcript back on the first page of the transcript is a list of everybody who's present in the deposition So it says dan freezing and they were like, well, let's figure out who this guy is and then they googled you and they were like, what the hell And they actually tried to insinuate that this was a violation of the protective order in some way Um, because I don't know I guess Yeah, it's basically like he's a podcaster. What's up with that? Like it was just very like whatever and so we just you know, like we didn't even have to This was not something he had to respond to but we did file a briefing like with like, yeah, look at this times article

He's the expert. We need him. He knows more about jones and anybody and like it The entire thing that they were arguing along with some other stuff just collapsed in their face during that hearing of jackland What and it became they they eventually pulled the whole motion and like, uh, sorry you had to read that your That didn't even pursue it But yeah, it wasn't until they found out and they were yeah, they were steamed about it They did not like that and I think that directive I mean, look, you don't know if that was a lawyer strategy move to try to do that at that particular time Or if that came down from jones himself of like goddamn podcaster can't believe they put him in there

You know, like, yeah, I don't know what it what it was, but they weren't happy about it Yeah, but it's a piece of information that I've long wanted to add to the alex knows damn well who we are pile You know, it is that like it's it's something that went through court processes of recognizing who we are Uh, and so you know who we are according to the law. Yeah, it's it's something that I've long wanted to uh I mean, it would have Yeah, we should get you a copy of that brief That'll put it on the wall. Yeah, I was gonna say we're gonna hang that up on the wall. That goes in the podcast studio You can put that on your on your knowledge of my business cards and letterhead. Uh, also consulting experts

I'm a consultant for things in a brief I'm well versed in bird laws so one of the other things I wanted to touch on and get to is the um, like the Protractedness of the case like is all frustration constant roadblocks and everything and then We get to the case and I don't know what your experience was like this is what I kind of want to know a little bit more about was that like Even in the process of the trial There was a sense of pretending that it wasn't a damages hearing and that it was actually an innocence or guilt

uh, kind of trial and Was that did that feel like an extension of all of the bullshit? Like coming into the trial itself. Well, how did you guys deal with that? Here's the thing is is is I don't know if you're saying that that and that it felt that way from the defense for example because they kept pushing that sort of Issue on liability That was that was semi invited by us in a way because because by the way we were going to put on the punitive case We were kind of making it about all of that again

Right like we did a lot of heavy focus on just how bad their conduct was because that's what determines the amount of punitive damages Right is how bad they were so the exact same evidence that we would have shown to show that they were liable With some rare exceptions of some things we didn't have to prove by prima facie. I haven't it's like whether they published it Like that like all that other evidence would have been the same in the in a regular trial if this default hadn't trapped That trial would look largely the same Right and and so because we were the ones who casted is that because obviously you want to Frontload these punitive damages you want that to be the thing you want the jury to be thinking about so that whatever your convince stories Are you get a boost on that's the thing even more importantly to consider?

Uh five years they have pushed this back pushed this back and at any point in time if they had just said Fuck it. We quit you win. We'll pay what we need to pay Text messages don't come out. I don't understand how big a deal it is that they Really shot themselves in the foot They're gonna they're gonna end up on you know with this judgment that we have it is I'll tell you these plaintiffs early on if they had just brought the suit And jones had come to him with with an amount of money Or below this verdict

Um and had done a sincere apology and pledged never to say sandy hook again And would you know, I I think they would have taken it back in 2018 I think yeah, we would have told him to 100% because you like later on these kind of um for show kind of offers of of Yeah, uh a settlement, you know like yeah, yeah It's the only thing that ever became official in terms of settlement offer Is is they wanted to give them 500 a piece 500,000 a piece Jesus and and that's like with attorneys fees cut off of it and all that kind of stuff And that was so easy to turn down and then we we ultimately collected more than that after they made the settlement just out of sanctions

We just we just took it right Yeah, and so I told them that at the time when they were offering me that i'm like you're paying me with my own coin I'm gonna take that and weigh more don't even think that you're hiding that kind of thing for me Yeah, and and that was at a time which I wasn't even sure we were gonna collect much more than those sanctions right the inforce might be a total empty shell Uh, but but now we know LLC is for sure exactly Now they apparently now they own the ip

Yeah I mean look you can look at our briefing about the about the bad faith of the bankruptcy Why we're seeking sanctions against some of those attorneys is because throughout that suit They told us infowars LLC has absolutely nothing. There's nothing there. There's no assets. No anything and then we non-suit them Right and then we find out later from the schedules. Oh, no, they they they own the intellectual property for infowars Well, do they believe that intellectual property is worthless? Yeah. Yeah, that would be interesting. That would be an interesting argument I think that's true. I think it comes down to who would pay for it. I would I take it my clients would take it 100 and i'm not joking if you were to shut down infowars as in the existence

And take it from jones and jones can never use the word infowars at all You could launch a new website called infowars that is legit independent media criticism That does it really well and really right and you the novelty Of relaunching infowars that has been stolen from jones and relaunched as a good thing If you're describing the absolute most movie-ass dumb plot that we could possibly If we suddenly just walk into the infowars studio the movie cuts out. That's the end of the movie, right? We do need infowars now. We have to talk seriously about this because we have some friends on the Cognitive dissonance podcast and we've had long discussions about how we need that desk. We need alex's desk

Sorry guys. I already called dibs I want people to walk into my room in my office and see that waving flag in the fucking wind No, you can have you can have the document camera. Yeah, that was the only two things I wanted was the desk and the document camera Put it up on the game. I will challenge you to a game of poker for the desk Yeah, that when we were when we were thinking we were gonna start seizing assets. I was like the desk is mine Everybody's like, oh, it's very specific In in honesty, I want that desk, but but in reality, I don't know if it would fit in here So it wouldn't be able to get it. It would be a periodic victory for me to get the desk

But it would fit but we'd have to remove the windows and like winch it in fine I want the skull that he puts on the desk every now and again. Absolutely. Yeah, personally me I want all of his guns and i'm giving them to the homeless Please don't ask him to expand on that. We have a charity that we're thinking about doing Second amendment saviors legally that is the opinion of the money to let homeless people exercise their second amendment Yeah, just go to downtown houston and start handing out ars to homeless people and when you're confronted about This is not okay. This is dangerous. Oh wait now you're for background checks now You're like when when when like suddenly like, you know, like you get all these like businessmen conservative

Program guy, you can't be giving all guns. Oh, so now it's certain people should have guns only certain people Weird how I want to get these of the Bastille can have guns. Is that what you're telling me? Yeah, I think everybody can agree if you don't have a place to live Stably, you might not need a barret 40 cal Canon All right, fair enough, you don't have a place to stay and you have a barret then you can get a place to stay pretty quick You have squatters, right? I do need to interject that these views that mark banks and this expressing are not the views of farah and ball pears

I gotta do my long disclaimer Robbie Barnes yelling about it Is legit trying to start a revolution It's a revolution. Yeah, he's a he's a meleprechaun on meth and he's trying to start a revolution. He mentioned the Bastille More do we have to know It's another thing that kind of went over including our heads in that moment is Daria on the stand brought up fast and furious the movie however, no fast and furious the cia gun running through and

And I was it was on Friday and I was driving back to houston because I went home to see my son for the weekend and I called mark and I was like Eric Eric Holder Ran fast and furious. He also appointed right now To the department of justice. I think at laredo. I was like Was that the same time period? And I was like, oh my god. I think of this on this stand That is so funny. Your lawyer was involved Just to turn around and be like excuse me. Uh, hey reynaul

What time did you work for Eric Holder? Let's just establish that In the moment it just in the moment there was just so much other nonsense Yeah, and it'd be too hard to pull up a wikipedia article on it for for her Man, I think that they made a bit of uh, miscalculation Allowing her to first of all be the corporate representative and then testify because I think That exposed her to more of the world and I don't think that image was good. No, no Well, they didn't have a choice mark subpoena

Yeah, that's the way it was a total choice. I subpoenaed her. There was a choice to appoint her as the corporate representative You probably wouldn't have had her on the radar or the deposition I subpoenaed do rubber do to trial as well and they suddenly claimed. Oh, we don't control him anymore He's not uh, he's not an employee no more. We don't control But what's weird is right after the other the other day alex was trying to get that clip from idiocracy And he said do has it on his computer now. I don't know if that means he still works there Yeah, I think he's working from home is what's going on like he doesn't he testified. He's still doing some contracting for them We have a theory that he's without him. We have a theory that he's been dead for like a month. Yeah

No, that's I definitely know because he he played a bunch of games with my process server and set him up to meet him somewhere And then disappeared and like took off out of you know, I went on the trip I was waiting for you to say because I I can see bill's got a gamer I was waiting for you to be like he was playing a few games to call a duty with bill the other night That would be amazing. That would be the ultimate It's weird. They said they didn't control him and and and this is back in march and then like a few years later was controlled by no man They had him sign as a 100 equity holder of info wars lc sign a bunch of bankruptcy documents I'm like, this is bad. So that's not a good thing that our motions about

But it was weird that I thought each of the the inner force witnesses had their own weird Vibe at trial that the first one with Daria was like That had the theme of like the style and rhetoric of a cia black site interrogation and then Owens had the theme of a father who is finally done with his dumb frat boy son Shit and just has caught him for the last time on everything And then the Jones thing was just on another planet. Like it really people keep comparing it to Um, uh, um a phoenix, right ace attorney the the video game with the lawyers and they do the sound effects to it

It really was Very much ace attorney shit and it was I mean it was like a law and order But but all of them had all these weirdly different vibes to him But to me I still go back to that Daria one and she puts a shiver down my spine I don't I don't know too much about her But her reactions to some of these questions emotionally really bothered me and and I think she really set the tone for the trial That moment that moment at the end of her testimony whenever she's trapped Fully in either in either a yes or no

I'm a psycho or not question. You know, it doesn't I mean even even the question doesn't really matter because it really boils down to Are you willing to say this? Do you have it in you and then she tried not to I swear I She tried to mumble and then finally she was like Yes, and you're like I can't believe you I really can't believe you're a person. Yeah, like it's crazy beyond scarlet's testimony The thing of this whole experience being in the room For the Super Bowl picture questioning. Yeah in the deposition itself

We'll live on in my memory is one of the more visceral things that I've I've felt like it was Hope I don't know how we kept it together It's about like in the room like of just like the gasp that I almost let out of that How is it you're sitting by on the side so you're having to process it emotionally me in the moment I I am conflicted by two emotions one absolute revulsion and anger at her But that is so tempered and put to the backseat by the fact that I know that I have just accomplished something phenomenal for my clients I have just You can't do a fist pump in front of her face. You can't be like boom

I nailed you for me It was the the disgust and all that but also just the surprise of like That is where your mind went. Yeah the That's that's it seems Like that's something you might say if you're trying to come up with an excuse But you would stop yourself. Yeah, you'd be like there's no way I get away with that. I can't get away with that This is too much. This is too much. Yeah That's nuts

And I just think about all the people worldwide who saw that Super Bowl picture for the first time in trial Yeah, and like I'm hoping that was the goal with Daria is to get you to understand this wasn't just him saying sandy hook was fake a few times Like this was something much more deep and sinister and so revolting That's that's such an important point Is that like the notion that it's like he got something wrong and he said a few things is so false Yeah, there's based on the information that's presented if people care to take the time to look at it. There is a conscious negligence There is a willingness to platform and

Fundraise for people who are acting maliciously and harassing these These people there's so much more than just like hey He whiffed on this story or whatever, you know, like and that's something that I think more people need to recognize We were we were asked kind of an interesting question today. Uh stelter. Uh, yeah, yeah, but ultimately it boiled down to like, um, you guys have done seven hundred and ten episodes How can we like learn anything about this and it's like we're on here for six minutes If we were able to explain anything to you, then why would we do seven hundred and ten fucking episodes? What kind of absurd ideas that that will have anything to say of any value to you in this point?

That's almost a repudiation of everything we've ever done. You know, right? Yeah Also a little dirty for stelter to put our business on the street. Yeah, I know audience That's embarrassing. That's not a happy moment. Yeah, that's not a proud. We did it all my parents are watching absolutely Somebody's daughter. Come on So what um, what other thoughts do you all have before we before we wrap this up? I want to get your perspectives on

On just like what are your takeaways that that you want to make sure people know like what are your thoughts? I uh The first time that you've you have been polite towards each other like no you go ahead Yeah, usually it's like shut up we uh, the The one thing I will say is that when you when you go through trial you get close to your clients You don't have a choice you're with them every day And you talk with them and that's where you get to really appreciate them as people

And the more and more that I met neil and scarlet, you know at times I would you know at times you get frustrated for certain things That i'm not gonna you know Nothing bad, but just kind of of course some of the some of the surrounding circumstances that were going on outside of us In the case that were going on during the trial um, but I will say that they it was there's a Surrealness feeling whenever they both took the stand and they told their stories in completely separate ways

And I think when that happened, you know, it didn't happen until day five And so everybody had heard this This ridiculousness and craziness and there was all these moments of just witnesses getting bloodied over and over again And then all of a sudden they took the stand and the mood shifted a little bit and even for me And I know for yeah, I think all of us we talked about it more when that moment hit it kind of got me back on track of like This is

Let's go light this thing up for real because this as fun as those moments can be professionally When when you hear from the person that you represent how it how it actually affects them it it empowers you to really You know put your foot down on the throttle and I mean you can see that that's kind of what happened um Because after that it was just like a bunch of surgeons in an operating room just cutting things down and uh And then all kind of got put back together. There's something that's so um

Kind of bizarre to me and I have a perception of lawyers in general that isn't So it's not entirely favorable, but there is something about me to air There's something about you guys. I've met you. I've spent time with you and it seems like you have such a um ability or a willingness to connect with your clients, you know be at the Uh scarlet kneel or marcel, you know, there's there's a care that you have about your clients themselves outside of the context of it being your client and the case You know the the the sort of cut and dry nature of the case And it's one of the things that particularly offends me. I guess

um Maybe it's me taking something personally that I don't need to but about when alex describes you guys as like Ambulance chasers and and this to know how much you all do actually care It adds an extra layer to to that that I think is is You know so undeserved and I mean obviously Yeah, it's not all about you guys, but there is an angle of that that that sucks Yeah, you were talking about how you were talking about how nice our fans have been to you and all of that stuff And I will tell you this they are not nice because

You're good if if you weren't Worth being nice to our fans are very very good at discerning whether or not to say who gives a shit about these guys So you are no I'm aware. Yeah But yeah mark and I don't like other attorneys. We hate we hate other plaintiffs attorneys because There's a personality You're you're your view on us isn't a Unnecessarily a wrong one. I would say that we're in the minority But don't but it's not as big of a minor. It's not as a small of a minority

You'd think there are a lot of of plaintiffs attorneys that do personal injury work out there that truly do do it for the right reasons And in the right ways But just hear about that and sometimes get overshadowed by yeah, you get it's you it's overshadowed by You know some attorneys that have pushed certain limits that they shouldn't have or done things that they shouldn't have and and that's always Going to happen in any profession, but yeah, I I mean When you guys have Wes and kyle on they'll tell you I mean they have a decades worth of stories before and I do You know they rep you know they They have clients years and years later that are you know quadriplegics

That'll still text them and they still you know they check up on them and they keep up to them because you do care It's hard not to when we don't do you know It's rare that you're going to go do a case where somebody got rear-ended in a school zone and has you know $30 worth of chiropractic and you're going to take it a trial those are the trials we do So if we're trying the case it's significant and because of that it's we try hard not to get too emotionally invested Because it'll mess with our performance on how we do our job But at the end of the day it's impossible not to care about these people because I there's been very few people if any I can't think of any off the top of my head that deserve what happened to them. So right, you know take that for what it's worth

I'll say that I hope that what we did you know you heard renault attack as a plaintiff's lawyers personal injury lawyers during the trial And I I hope that for the people who do do it. Well, we have hopefully Helped our that reputation Because the bill is right that a lot of people in the profession invited to them themselves They'll even treat their clients adversarial. They're another person. They're trying to get money from it's it's exist I'm talking about barn. It's It's done a little plaintiff's work himself

So I don't know how he does with his plaintiffs, but I know he you know, there's some who just do mercenary They're on all sides of the aisle, but I've always said I've I've never I've never Clients have never paid me up front and in any case I've ever done I've always taken money from some bad person or evil corporation and given it to them and I you know I Growing up I wanted to be either Robin Hood or Blackbeard and I kind of got I got to be in both That's really what I do is I feel like I'm both of those things and and it's been it's been really rewarding to have all of the The accolades all of the stuff. I'm not gonna lie. It's been good. It's been really nice

And I was getting a lot of that before I got home and then I got home And I walked in the door and and and my son ben comes up to me and he's he's getting close to eight now When I first took these cases he was six and he was you know the same age as these kids when when they died And he was born on the same day as Noah pause me his his his first birthday as Noah's first birthday that he wasn't around was in 2013 the first birthday Noah wasn't around and Ben has a little duck that scarlet gave him that's has the Jesse Lewis choose love on his t-shirt And that's his Jesse duck and he loves that little Jesse duck like he wouldn't believe

And and he knows a little but he knows enough now about what happened to understand What I'm up there doing that this horrible thing happened to these parents and they lost their little boy And there's a man who's just being awful to them and just tormenting them like he understands that And when I came through the door He just came bounding up to me and like a look of just pleasure in his eyes of daddy's back from his trial Daddy's back for a shot grab me around And every damn thing from these last two weeks melted off of me like like snow in In an oven just came all off of me and like everything I was thinking about all these outside influences and just the focus of that little boy hugging me

I I broke me and I like I had a I had a night where I just just stopped for a minute and and thought about where all this led And it was yeah That was more important to me than any other things people were saying about me Yeah, but I could feel proud of myself to him if I had to come home head in shame and say I couldn't help these people Man that would have been tough So given given this moment to the world where they all got this where jones got his teeth kicked in in the middle of a courtroom I love it

I'm so happy that people will have that for years to come to make memes of right like all of that But for me it was my son it just won order trial by jury was still on the do an episode where they had you One of the writers for law and order did a tweet that was like If I would have written a script based on what's going on in the alex jones trial I would have immediately been fired from that conference room because there's no fucking way That was ever going to happen in real life Just hacky stuff just total hack stuff. Yeah No, that's the type of stuff that only happens in real life. Well to call alex truth is stranger than fiction

They know it's uh, he got bit by his own uh kept praise Out there listening you saw during that cross that we have a flare for the dramatic we want to make this like a movie We want to do this. We want to give you that story We want because we know the power that it has to counteract him and i'll just tell you we got we got sequels coming up Well, I think that's a great place to end it honestly But before we do I think that to be clear You're not using this like theatricality and narrative stuff in any dishonest way

And I honestly think that it's one of the reasons that it's potent against alex Absolutely That's one of his big tools is using things uh that are dishonest and manipulative In a theatrical narrative-based way. Yeah, and it's so powerful against him to use things that are real And truthful in the same uh in the same way very much There's no magical realism where we're coming from. This isn't his universe This is this is about the potency of a true american story It's not magical realism, but he may be facing a hundred years of solitude

Ha That's the only magical That's crazy Obscure But yeah with that said I am checking out from Social media the news media everything for a few days Uh leaving now my sugar mama is taking me on a trip for my birthday Perfect a little bit more and get away from uh all the noise you're going on the trip yourself indeed mark now gets to do all of that

while I'm going He's the one that everybody wants to talk to he brought it on himself. Yeah Hey, I'll uh, I'll tell your Your audience and and it may be old by this time and this airs around. I don't know when you're gonna put this out or whatever Tomorrow. Yeah Oh tomorrow, okay, so as it comes out tomorrow guys Yeah, if if y'all put this on on tomorrow, um, um, I got corporate media invites I'm probably gonna be doing some of them, but tomorrow night monday night. Um

Check out the young turks. I'm gonna do my first appearance talking about some of this on video With young turks talking to anna Oh, yeah, man. I'm sure that uh, you know our our wonks are very enterprising people And I'm sure every single appearance you make someone will make a post about it. It's true And it is true people will get amped. Yep, but thank you guys so much for taking time like in this, uh, You know immediate aftermath to talk with us So it means a lot the number one legal podcast in the country now It's gonna be a problem for them what some of the stuff that happened on that show

I would imagine. Yeah anything that barns has touched. I imagine we'll have some problems in the near future. Yep Um, but yeah, I guess, uh, I don't know you have anything to plug jessie louis choose love foundation Honor network in the choose love shop choose love movement and those two things are uh, They're both doing really good stuff for for moving forward one on misinformation and one on just Teaching kids how to stop hating each other. Oh, yeah, it's amazing. Well bill. Enjoy your trip I hope you uh get all the the sun and relaxation. Uh, you deserve and mark enjoy The young turks Whoever else knocks down your door

Being all famous over there Well, we'll talk soon and I'm sure in the lead up to the pausiner trial if the bankruptcy doesn't all right derail everything completely We'll have uh some debriefing to do there. So yeah, absolutely. Absolutely All right, fellas, you have a great night. All right. Thanks for taking Andy and chanzas. You're on the air. Thanks for holding Well, i like some of the first time color. I'm a huge fan. I love your work. I love you