Knowledge Fight - #764: Jordan Takes The Wheel 9

Episode Date: January 6, 2023

Today, Dan and Jordan take a little Wacky Friday adventure, as Jordan explores a new space weirdo possibility.  In this installment, the gents learn about funk tubas, visitations at baseball games, and a mysterious story about a trip into the "other side" in a Jeep.

I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys, saying we are the bad guys. I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys, saying we are the bad guys. Hey everybody, welcome back to Fight Knowledge, I'm Jordan. I'm Dan. This is a podcast where we worship the altar of Selina and do anything but talk about Alex Jones. That's correct. Jordan. Dan.

Jordan. Dan. I had a question for you. What's that one, Fred? It's a bright spot. My bright spot today. As you know, I'm going back through all the albums that I may have missed from 2022. Sure.

I love me a year-end list. Uh-huh. You know, I'm not in the world. Did you look at Obama's year-end list? No. Get some inspiration from his annual list of bangers? No, I did not. No, I did not.

No. But Black Thought and Danger Mouse put out an album. Did they now? That is very, very good. Okay. And not least of which, you know, Black Thought is absolutely spectacular. Sure, sure. It's produced in such a way that it has that old kind of grittier feel, you know, that

like those early mixtape days, you know, back in the late 80s. Sure, sure. Those early root songs, like things off phrenology. You know, like... That's seed 2.0. Yeah, back where it all started. Back where it began. No, I think that would be Illadelph Half-Life.

Yeah. I'm talking, I'm saying, well, man. Yeah, there's a bit more. Back when Malik B was in the... Yeah, wow. Hey, R.I.P... Earl Hubbard? Leonard Hubbs.

Yeah. How about you? It's your bright spot. Well, I'm sorry. No, I completely derailed you. You have like some albums that you were like just the... Yeah, that's just the one that I was specifically... That's my bright spot this time.

Yeah. Or are you going to be for like the month of January all of your missed albums? No, I haven't missed many that I wanted to listen to, you know, that kind of thing. And then I've listened to a lot that I... Not for me. Sure. Not for me. I'm an old man now.

I'm grumpy. All right. Where's the pop music that reflects grumpiness? See, but that... This is interesting. I am the king of the grumps. True, true. And I kind of like bright pop music.

Wow, absolutely. Yes. But maybe something with a little bit of darkness. So I'll go ahead and throw this out for my bright spot. Okay. If you're going with music, I'll join you with that. Excellent. The group Sally Shapiro has a new album out.

Never heard of them. They're a Talo Disco outfit. Okay, now I'm listening. They're a duo of a singer and DJ guy. Okay. And there's a lot of like kind of melancholy disco-y... All right. ...stuff.

And they made two albums together and then they quit. They retired and then... I didn't realize this, but they just recently put out a new album called Sad City. Is it a little bit... Is it like Lady Tron-ish? Does it have that kind of vibe to it? I don't know enough about Lady Tron. I can't really...

That's something that you've recommended to me a number of times in the past. I don't know. I don't know how to... Which means that eventually in the next couple of years, we will be right back where we are now with me saying, wait, does that sound a little bit like Lady Tron about a different band? Probably. You'll be like, you've told me to listen to it.

One of these days, so get around to it. I'm not good at taking recommendations. No. But yeah, I've enjoyed that Sad City album. I will definitely be listening to that. I love a Talo Disco. You don't know anything about a Talo Disco. I don't know anything about a Talo Disco.

What do you know about Bassanova? I know a little bit too much about Bassanova. God, it annoys me. Wait, oh, nope, we're done? We can't do it anymore? So frustrating. All right, Dan, we have an episode today. Do we?

Yes, we do. Okay. I have brought to you... Dan, I'm gonna say this to you. Recently, things have been very racist. Wow. Pretty much all the time. That is true.

Like, pretty much a nonstop drum beat of somebody being racist on the daily. Sure. Right? Sure. And I'm tired of that. It's been going on a lot. So I thought, let's try and have fun without racism.

Okay. Okay. That seems anathema to our existence over the course of time doing the show. But look, I think it's an admirable goal. Right. Right. And I think I've come close,

at least on this particular episode. It is a show called Dreamland by this guy named Whitley Straber. Oh, I know him. And... Oh, dude, you know him? Okay. All right.

Well, I know the name. I know he has some alien shit going on. Oh, he's totally got some alien shit going on. Is that gonna get Whitley Straber's communion? Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.

That's the one. And I'm sure he's racist somewhere. I'm sure he's racist. I'm sure he's anti-Semitic somewhere, but not on this particular episode, is my point. Okay. Well, that's good.

That's a name that goes way back. Yes. In terms of alien stuff. Oh, yeah. He's one of the names that... I remember even from back in my days of reading the blogs and message boards of conspiracy stuff.

Oh, yeah. He goes way back. Controversial figure in some ways. Well, he's interesting. I'd never heard of him before. And then I looked... What's interesting about him is that he's a fairly successful

science fiction and horror author. Right? Wow. In that genre. That's cool. Right? And he is also a guy who writes about Bigfoot, you know,

and how we're going to find him someday, you know, like that kind of thing. So it's a little bit like if Isaac Asimov was like, I write great science fiction, and instead of the rise and fall of the Roman Empire,

it's like the rise and fall of the far Bluebees and that kind of thing, you know? Sure. Maybe it's heavily veiled fiction. Kind of. You know, like maybe it's... Maybe we're the fools for thinking

that we should take what he's saying about Bigfoot seriously. It might just be more science fiction. Here's the thing. That's kind of what I'm talking about with his guest today. Interesting. I don't think he's doing that.

Okay. But his guest might be. Okay. His guest might be a brilliant, like, immersive fiction author. Someone who should be an improv everywhere. It is a little something along

those lines. And his name is Joshua Cutchin. Joshy. Joshy the Cutch. I think. I think before we jump into that, I think that Patton Oswald had a mention of Whitley Striper and like

one of his first albums. No shit. I think so. I think there was a there was a reference. Anyway. Wild. That was where my brain.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You might be. Yeah. Which one was that? Yeah. Never mind.

Yeah. Might have even been in the... No. Not the Robert Evans. The... Oh, man. Yeah. The comedians of comedy.

But I think it was around that era. Yeah. Yeah. Or even maybe even before. Yeah. His first album would have been like three years, three or four

years before that. Might have been the... No. Not the famous bowls. Anyway. Sorry. It's not the famous bowls. Yeah.

So he is interviewing Joshua Cutchin about his new book, The Ecology of Souls. And we're going to get into that. But before we do, how about we say hello to some wonks? That sounds like a great idea.

First, D of Team Stats. You are now a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thank you very much. Next, wonky donkey, honky tonk. You are now a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk.

Thank you very much. The ghost of any morocone who is tired of hearing Alex use ecstasy of gold from good to the bad and the ugly coming out of ad breaks. You are now a policy wonk. You son of a bitch.

Thank you very much. I'm sorry. That's the timing there. All right. Mark and linen. Do you not know how to pronounce any a morocone? Is that what I've?

Okay. All right. Go ahead. Okay. Everybody. We're not going to do that. We're not going to do this with your hand.

We're not going to do this with your handwriting. God. Mark and linen. You are now a policy. It's a linear linear. Jesus Christ. Learn how to write.

I'm a policy wonk. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Dr. J in the Monday night meeting. You are now a policy. Walk. I'm a policy.

Walk. Thank you very much. Are you sure? That's not. And the fan of Jordan. You are now a policy. Walk. I'm a policy.

Walk. Thank you very much. That was and the fan of Jordan. Oh, okay. That's why Dan is in all caps. That doesn't make. Okay. Oh, man.

The fan fan Jordan. It all rhymes. The number of. Okay. Everybody. Dan. We also have a technocrat. Okay.

So I'm so sorry. I've listened to your entire back catalog twice. You are now a technocrat. Oh, I'm a policy wonk. Four stars. Don't honk your mouth and tell it. You're brilliant. Someone.

Someone. Sodomite sent me a bucket of poop. Daddy shark. Bump. Bump. Bump. Bump. Bump.

Jar Jar Binks has a Caribbean black action. He's a loser. Little. Little kitty baby. I don't want to hate black people. I renounce Jesus Christ. Thank you. Yes.

Thank you very much to all of you. Dan. Mm-hmm. So today we're talking about this interview on Dreamland. You said the ecology of souls. The ecology of souls. Joshua Cutchin. Ecological.

I mean, I thought you said economy of souls at first and I thought like, oh, we're going to get some like soul banking. No, it's it's more of, I mean, first off, I've read the book. It is roughly 300,000 words. And you know, you know, I just had the plan to do this yesterday morning. Sure. And it is almost like a like an adventure, an adventure from like the 1400s coming back to the club and in Britain being like, gentlemen, there are people with faces in that chest

out there. You know, it's that kind of thing. I have got a vivisection of a soul. Yes. 100%. It is that it is like almost like, and in this region, fairies are known for their particular wing structure and fauna descriptions of 100% an anthropology textbook of souls of souls.

And if it were real, you know, like if this person is so convinced that what he's saying is just more like documenting the kingdom phyla of gin versus genie versus, you know, all of that stuff as it relates to the sort of cataloging and description of souls. Yes. We all know what the compound noun is of a soul, right? I mean, you know, there's like a murder of crows. Sure. There's a there's a blessed union of souls.

No, I don't believe. Wait, she likes me for me. That's all. Remember? Oh my God. Oh, no. Is that the name of that song? Oh, yeah.

That was the band. Oh, yeah. That day. That song was called Hay Leonardo. Wait. Yeah. That was the name of the band. I thought that was a one hit wonder by like Bush.

No. What did I think it was? Bush. But you know, you know what I mean. One of those 90s. Yeah. One of those 90s. Some 41 or something like that.

No, no, no. Very different cattle. Whatever. They were pop punk. Okay. Bush was more like just on the end tip of grunge. Right. Right.

Right. But like a jars of clay version of jars of clay was rain rain on my face. Right. Grace or the flood. What's the what's the Stacey's mom one? That was fountains of Wayne fountains of Wayne. And that was later. They're all in my head.

They're all the same. Yeah. The union of souls had the Haley and Ardo. She likes me for me. So and then also I believe that love is the answer. I believe love will find a way it's terrible. That song is awful. Yeah.

You're well. You're not selling me on it. Haley and Ardo is pretty good. Anyway, that's the compound noun of souls. And if this guy doesn't agree, I don't think he goes into the compound now. But there are a few threads throughout this interview that are happening at the same time and yet entirely unrelated. First before we get into too much, how about an outer contact strap?

How about it? It felt like a woman to me. Okay. I assume he's talking souls. It's it is a he's a person who that was pulled from a commercial, which is him under hypnosis explaining how he was having a sexual encounter with an alien or a ghost or something along those lines. It's just for me.

It's just so funny when he goes, I thought it was a woman. Yeah. That's the sting. Yeah. That was a little bit dramatic. That's my favorite. Yeah. Absolutely.

So today we're talking about Joshua Cutchin, Ecology of Souls. And I think Striper introduces him best. Go ahead and play that. He's written an amazing new book called Ecology of Souls. He's the author of seven critically acclaimed books, Trojan Feast, The Food and Drink, Offerings of Aliens, Ferries and Sasquatch, which we have talked about, The Brimstone Deceit, An In-Depth Examination of Supernatural Sense, Other Worldly Otors and Monstrous Measmas. Okay.

Thieves in the Night, History of Supernatural Child Abductions, and Where the Fruit Prints End, Highest Strangest and the Bigfoot Phenomenon, all of them very cool, all of them loved by you. I mean, we didn't talk about all of them, but the ones we talked about were loved by you. You loved them. Wow. I mean, they do sound cool.

People, one, loved them. Yeah. People loved them. They did talk about all of them. They did talk about all of them. People loved them. And I don't know what it is about that one title that it just goes, My Measmas, okay. He was pretty excited.

I also was pretty excited of all of those books. The only one I want to read is one about weird smells. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. What are you talking about? How does otherworldly smells show up? I don't know. That book I could not find.

I think olives might be otherworldly as a smell, because I love the smell of them. Like you open a jar of olives, but I hate olives. Sure. That's otherworldly to me. That's bewitching. You think there's some sort of like a Mandela effect for you wherein somebody gave you the smell of olives in another universe? Maybe, maybe not necessarily a Mandela effect, but there's some witchcraft involved.

It's otherworldly. There's a rift. Yeah. You know? Yeah, yeah. That sounds fair. What are the other smells you might think are otherworldly? That's a great question.

Maybe like a fresh cut grass, but that's transcendent. That's the different. That's a different thing. Sure. Sure. Yeah, yeah. What about you? You got any smells that come to mind?

I mean, the first thing that comes to mind, but that's just because I'm a Dr. Hoofer is Petrichor, which is the smell of dirt after rain or something along those lines, but it's very, very important to Dr. Hoofer. That's close to fresh cut grass. Yeah. I mean, both are lawn-adjacent. Pretty much. Absolutely.

Turns out we just want lawns. I think that's kind of... We've been living in Chicago too long. Like these apartments. We've been living inside. I want the smells of a house. There's so much goddamn concrete. I think, I mean, it's impressive.

Anybody who's written more than one book of nonsense. Yeah. Yeah. That is always going to... I'll tip my hat to that. I'm going to tell you this. This man is an impressive writer. In some ways, he is an impressive writer to the point where if he were writing in...

If we existed in the universe where what he's writing makes sense, he would be like the pop historian. Yeah. He's like Barbara Tuckman of imaginary bullshit, you know? You know what? Now that I'm thinking about it, I also want to hear about the food offerings of the fairies and wizards and Sasquatches. I want to read that too.

Yeah. Honestly, they're... Yeah. That is fairly interesting. I mean, it's got to be like what? The food offerings would be stuff like Ambrosia. You know, he's a classics guy. So everything that he does and the reason that...

Would you say classics? You don't mean like in terms of the academia, like Greek and Roman history and stuff? Yes. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. He's a legit classics guy. And that intersects with fairies and the foods they want to...

And he's not talking about fairies as just like what we... You know, like the Dickensian fairies or whatever it is you want to go on there. He's talking more like everything from human history that might resemble a fairy, falls under the classification fairy, therefore you can go from region to region, almost anthropologically saying in this area, fairies are fed berries on the top, you know, the fairy berries, yeah. Merry berries, fairy berries is one of my favorite British cooking shows. So he's kind of got that and that's why people love him in this world is because everything he writes is exhaustively, ridiculously referenced.

His bibliography for the ecology of souls runs 160 some odd pages. Too much. Too much. And it's all pretend. It's all bullshit. What he references is anywhere from like a scientific paper from the 1800s to a poem to fucking cave paintings just being like, see, cave paintings proved it. I bet it's also like three of those pages are just ibbid.

Oh no man, I'm telling you. It's exhaustive. It's crazy. I'm exhausted. So, Stryber starts out the way anybody, any good interviewer would. Let's get some background information and I think this is the start of one of our threads, which is Stryber's interview style. Okay, Joshua has been at all, where do you actually come from though, your curriculum

vitae on your website, which is joshuacutchin.com by the way, doesn't really tell us much about you. It tells about what you've done, but tell us more about who you are, you're a musician among other things. Well, I suppose that the simplest thing right away is to see that I'm sitting here in Georgia wearing a Wisconsin sweatshirt and I'm from North Carolina, so that gives you sort of a thumbnail. It makes it simple.

Now we understand exactly where you're coming from. That's fun. Yeah. You just said some nonsense. Exactly. He's pretty funny about it. Yeah. So you've lived places.

Yes. But to be fair, like Whitley did say like, where are you from? Totally. So that is not as much of a non sequitur answer, but it doesn't really tell us much about this person other than he's moved. I guess what he's trying to say is like, I'm a little from everywhere in the South, I suppose, but again, that's that's not really answering the question. Wait, is Wisconsin in the yeah, yeah, yeah, oh man, whatever.

I'm having a day. North Dakota. North Dakota. Are you saying North Carolina? No, he said North Carolina. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Cause he's Georgia, Wisconsin, North Carolina. That's what it was. You know what though? Wisconsin. No, North Carolina, South Carolina for sure. Sure. North Carolina debatable. Wisconsin.

Definitely not. Definitely not. So yeah, he is not getting too much information to give you an idea of what Joshua looks like. You know, he's, he's, he's a pretty large dude. He's a six foot three. He's a hefty man, pretty bald with a neck beard. No mustache.

Okay. Just all around the neck. That's not far off from a look that I might have been pulling at some points in high school. Cause I did shave my head periodically and I had an Amish beard. Yeah. You know, I had the, the trying to connect with my Mennonite roots. It's not a good, it's not a good look when you're doing it intentionally, but if you're

you know, an older person, it's not a problem, but it doesn't, it's not, it's not a track. Not for a 15 year old. No, no, no, no, no. No, no. Uh, and so we'll continue on. He'll tell us a little bit more. Yes, sir. So I was, I was raised in North Carolina, um, about 20 minutes north of Charlotte.

And I went to undergraduate at the university of Wisconsin for music performance. I came down to the university of Georgia where I got a master's in music literature and a master's in journalism and you know, big cities have a certain gravity and they sort of pull you in over time. So I'm getting closer and closer to Atlanta. I might have to achieve escape velocity at some point, but right now I'm in the Marietta area. Okay.

Well, I didn't tell us much either. Sure. I can, I relate to this. I, Whitley's charming me a little bit. He's got, he's got a certain style. Uh, as long as I, I mean, again, I try not to look into either of these guys too much beyond this episode. This is kind of gaslighting though, because he did ask him where he's from and he's talking

about geographical stuff, which is in response to the question. It's just like, I don't know. Maybe I'm not charmed. Here's, here's what I'm thinking, uh, as far as this goes, I think what Whitley is looking for is more of a supernatural answer. I think, I think it's more based on just what we've heard so far. I don't know anything about this. It feels more like the, where are you from is like, it should be, it's like, where are

you from emotionally? Where are you from? Like what's the, you know, your lineage totally. Through this bullshit, as opposed to like geographical locations you stopped at and how you're afraid you might end up in Atlanta. Yeah. Yeah. There's worse fates that ended up in Atlanta.

I mean, I don't know why Barry yet is better than Atlanta. It's got a certain charm. I'm not saying it doesn't. I'm just saying, I don't know why it's bad. I've never been. I'm just talking out of my ass. Right. Well, it's fair.

Um, so, uh, what caught my ear is, uh, he is a musician who has a master's in music literature. Uh, so I wanted to see what, uh, was going on. My man plays the funk tuba. Oh, okay. Oh, hell yeah. That was not what I expected. Nope. You were not expecting that.

Go ahead and play because this is on one of these types of shows. I was assuming like he has a master's in there. Oh man. Nope. Go ahead and play TBS for me. Wow. Tuba solo. Wow.

Was he doing the Duke of Earl there? It kind of had a Duke of Earl. It was very much Duke, Duke, Duke of Earl. Oh yeah. It had that kind of progression to it. That was a, I liked that one in particular because one is the video on youtube is just a close up of him and his tuba like right on his face and then the tuba and then attached to the tuba is a cup holder with a full beer and hell yeah, which is like hell yeah, man.

Uh, and two, the whole performance is there. Everybody in the band gets their own solo and that's why I played that audio just a little bit beforehand because when it comes to his solo, he went into the audio on the video, cut it out and edit it so he would be, and I respect that. I like that. That's his solo. This might also answer the question of the no mustache. Mouthpiece chafing can be difficult on a tuba.

You know, you're not wrong. I had not considered that. I mean, I played a French horn and I remember there being some difficulties with the, you know, the mouth. I had not considered that. That's a good point. Yeah. Yeah.

Anyways, this dude's a marching band nerd if I ever heard one. It does seem, it seemed like it's tough to play the tuba and not be exactly. That is why again, I feel like I'm fairly confident we're not in racist territory here. I don't know why, but I feel like you can't be a racist tuba player. You just can't be in a, you can't be in a band playing the tuba and be a racist at the same 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:32,120 I legitimately have no counter examples, but I strongly disagree with you. I think it wouldn't be too hard to find a racist tuba player.

Listen, I get it. The Klan has tuba players too. That's fair. You're right. I don't think they're tuba players in the soul though. They can't play funk tuba. It's tough to play the tuba with a hood. Mouthpiece is much more difficult even than a mustache.

Yeah. That's way worse than a mustache. Okay. So anyways, uh, Striper is going to, or is going to continue his investigation here. And he's going to keep telling us a little bit more about his background, Joshua, and where he comes from. What the heck are you doing writing things about a new mythology of death and the paranormal? For example, I read, I didn't hear anything in any of this.

It tells me why you do what you do. And not only that, you're brilliant. I mean, these books are phenomenal with at least telling on himself here. Because he's never, it clearly never been to Wisconsin. Everyone there is into the new ideology of death. Whatever the fuck he's talking about. Yep. Yep. That is what the ecology of souls is.

It's a new mythology of death. Interesting. Yeah. Yep. That's pretty heady. Now, another reason why Striper might think he is very, very brilliant is because Striper is referenced a lot in these books. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

He features in the bibliography quite a bit. Good way to go to good review. That's a good way to get a good review of your book. Oh man. I loved that book, especially the part where I'm in it a bunch. Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah.

So I, I think you hear why I love Striper's interview style. Just so, just so, just what the heck are you doing? It has the feeling of being rude and less their friends. And that makes you assume that they're friends when they may not be. Yeah, exactly. You know, that has, it's an interesting vibe. Maybe his status is just so high in the weirdo community that like he can pull whatever shit he wants.

I mean, he, it feels like that's what he does is he just says whatever he's thinking. Also, he's got to be pretty old. Oh, he's very old. Yeah. Cause I thought he would be dead. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's very, very old. I thought maybe he died in the nineties, quite frankly, like an Art Bell type.

Yeah. Yeah. Art Bell didn't die in the nineties though. Did he? I can't remember when that was. Yeah. Me neither. But yeah, that's, well, I mean, also that's why his, his questions take a little bit

longer to, to get going once he, it takes a little bit while, at least a while for the ball start rolling down the hill. Sure. Sure. So yeah. What's going on in this book is it's a little bit like John Hodgman's book. Do you remember the, the whole people? Yeah.

The facts about the mole people or something like that. The, the hobo signs. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And all list of hobo names. Right.

It's a little bit like that. But if John Hodgman was telling you confidently, this is a real book I am describing to you. So yeah, keeps going on. Go ahead and play the next one. That's very kind of you. I guess. So shy, but he knows it's true. Well, that's very kind of you.

I just kept on wanting to interject that, I guess I read too many books by this Strieber guy, and that sort of put me off on this path. Oh boy. Yeah. I'm a, I'm a real thorn in the side of the, of the ordinary world. I don't belong here. Well, I think you write about people who don't belong here and creatures who don't belong here too.

Yeah. In fact, if I'm not correct, where are we in here? Let's, let's just jump in here. All right. There's a lot of cool stuff in this book about fairy folks, the ecology of souls. And we're going to talk about this huge idea, a new mythology of death in the paranormal over the course of the, because that's the subtitle book over the course of the interview. But let's talk first about the theories of the others.

Because, you know, I mean, I've, I've had them around in my life, most of my life. And a lot of my listeners have too. A lot of people have. Yeah. No. I looked it up during that clip. Yeah. He's only 77.

Really? Yeah. I thought he would be older. Boy, he's. I thought he'd be in his nineties or something. He's, yeah, I was, I was expecting, if you, if you see him, if you look at him, he looks great for 77. Mm hmm.

Sure. Well, wait, no, I mean, he looks great for, I mean, he looks very bad for 77. I got that wrong. He looks very bad for 77. Right. He looks good for 90. He looks good for 90. That's what I was trying to say.

Yeah. I, it's weird. It's a strange thing where you have like these people slotted into various places in your brain. And like I was, I knew that name and I was almost certain he was ancient. Yeah. Yeah. It is, it is like stuff that's old when you're young as you get older seems twice as old as it was, you know, like if, if your dad read it, you know, even he was only 30 years older than you,

you feel like it was a hundred years at the same time. I mean, Barbara Walters just passed and she was in her nineties. She was 90 something. Yeah. Yeah. I, I think what we're describing is that we don't know how old each individual celebrity may or may not be. That's true.

I need to make flashcards. Yes. That's a good point. We need to, we need to practice on this. We got to memorize all this stuff. So the fairy folk are involved. Yeah. Yeah.

Yep. Uh, he's, he's talking about the fairies. I, I mean, I'll say he starts a chapter like this with this sentence. There are also physical fairy doubles. Whoa. Yeah. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Period.

As though that's something that you, you can say. That's the beginning of a chapter. That's the first sentence. That's not a great first sentence. No, no, no. Too short. In using also in the first sentence of a chapter, probably gauche. Not good.

What is a physical? Is it like, okay. So I'm guessing that fairies are not physical beings. They're kind of ethereal, um, ghost-like creatures or something. And then there are also doubles of fair. They can take physical form. Yeah. Or do only some take physical form?

I'm going to, I'm going to cut you off here. Okay. Too many questions popping up. No, no, no, no. There are also fairy doubles. The also refers to there are human doubles. Sure. There are space doubles.

There are, there's just doubles of everything. Well, how else you can play tennis? Exactly. So there's two things that exist side by side. Is what he tries to, to get through with his, his main thesis. Is he, does that, I mean, does that just mean twins? A little bit. Okay.

Yeah. But like, you know, it's a little bit like parallel universe kind of stuff. You know, you got another one of you. In another universe that we can never access and may not be. He's right here. Okay. But you can't see him. But if you're in that universe that he lives in, then you could.

Okay. Yeah. Where are you from? Exactly. I'm wearing a t-shirt from Wisconsin. Okay. So what Couchin is doing is trying to create a grand field theory of pretend. You know, he's trying to, and what he does is he, he takes from everything.

And I mean everything he can. He, he pulls from, you know, Greek mythology. He pulls from the Christianity, Abrahamic religion kind of thing. He pulls from Eastern philosophies. And he's trying to put all of this stuff together into one thing. Right? That's not going to work. It's tough to do.

Yeah. I can, I just know that this has been tried before. Well, it doesn't work. And you just anger people. He's doing his best. Yeah. Go ahead and keep going. It became a terrible.

I'm quite a masterpiece, frankly. I mean, it's, it's a, it's really something. Thank you so much. It's sort of, it's sort of evolved into a snapshot of how I think about these things and how I sort of make them all fit together. Because I am in a lot of ways, what might be termed a pan-paranormalist or something like that. I want to see how the fairy stuff fits in with the cryptid stuff. And I want to see how Indies fit into the, the UFO experience.

And, you know, a lot of these observations have been made. You've got Eddie Bullard, who drew a lot of similarities between Shamanic initiations and the UFO contact experience. You've got Kenneth Ring, obviously, whom you work with quite a bit, drawing the connections between near-death experiences and the UFO contact experience. But it just seems like every contact modality has the vestiges of the same shared attributes, regardless of where it is. So, I mean, it makes a good point.

I mean, in as much as like, if we're all going to do all this pretend stuff, or we're going to have all these ideas, they do have to exist in the same universe. You know, like, so what is it? Is there something that supervenes upon ghosts and fairies and Squatch and all this? Is there some kind of a, like, unknown universe law or something that explains this kind of stuff? I mean, there would have to be. Right. Yeah.

Right. He's, he's, what's, what's crazy about him? It's a big picture thinking. What's crazy about, no, and I read his book, what's crazy about him is that he's kind of got a good thought process in, in so far as where he's trying to take this. So his, his philosophy is this, something along the lines of, if any of these religions are true, right, then there's a chance that any of them are true. Sure. So either they're all true or all possibly true, or none of them are, because if a religion is

possible, if magic is possible, then all bets are off, all magic is possible. You see, that's his thought process. Right. It's, it's, see, it seems like if there is one magician, there is potentially tons. Exactly. But at the same time, if there's one magician, it's possible there's only one magician. Totally. But he's saying, no, it's not. All right. That's his, that's his argument.

Well, I mean, it is, it is an interesting line of thought. I don't foresee him coming to any good conclusions necessarily, but I think it's, it's an interesting, interesting thought. Well, what's, what, what, the conclusion that he comes to is, you know, after he goes through all of his talking, whereas you or I would look through all of this and see like, okay, well, you see this thing, this isn't real, we've proved that that's not real. This thing, we've proved that's not real. We've proved all, so much of this shit isn't real.

So by your line of thought, I'm just going to go ahead and say that none of it's real. Right. And he goes, you can't prove it. It's all real. Which is a little bit different. Yeah, that's a problem. It's a bit of a problem. That's where it goes. On the other hand though, it's so well researched.

It's so down to, and let me try and give you an idea of some of the things that it'll do. He does a couple of academic tricks, which are fun. Well, he uses big words. I heard that already. That's one of the big ones. That's one of the big ones, of course, but he uses his references very deceptively. So I'll give you, oh man, listen to this overwrought, typically red-eyed from her continual crying.

The banshee appears as a woman with long hair in a green dress under a gray cloak, though others clad her in white. The color of bloodless corpses and ghosts, or Greek spirits who appeared pallid because they were deprived of the sun. She loves brushing her hair and is considered very dangerous even today to pick up a stray comb you find laying on the ground in case it belongs to the fairy woman. The banshee fairy woman? Yes.

Who's crying all the time? Yes. Man, maybe she's a friend. Okay, now he's got three quotes in there, and three references for those quotes. Each one has their own reference. Now, one of the references comes after, or one of the citations comes after clad her in white. Quote, quote. The color of bloodless corpses and ghosts is a citation from that,

but it makes it look visually like he's citing the typically red-eyed from her continual crying, the banshee appears line, making it sound like he's backed up the most insane part of that. Well, the part that she's always crying? That she exists at all, and that she's always crying. All of these things are crazy by referencing a different way of describing something as white. Oh, wait, the citation is like too a thesaurus? It's just the clad her in white part.

That's no good. Yes, exactly. I do think, okay, so just from the perspective, I don't know. I feel like that description of a banshee does the banshee dirty a little bit. Well, you saw there's four descriptions of a banshee in that one thing, you know? But they're all accurate. Sure, exactly. That's the problem.

Again, if one of them is real, they're all real. Sometimes red, sometimes white, dressed. Sometimes gray. Always crying. Greek. Uh-huh. Lads to brush hair. Yep.

Don't pick up a comb. All of these things are in one paragraph that has multiple citations to things that have nothing to do with proving that it's real. Is the advice that, like, if you see a comb, don't touch it? Yes. Okay. It's good advice. Sure.

The weird part is that to this day, like, hey, man, to this day, that's still real. Like, we haven't aged out of this. No. Not like an anthropologist being like, this belief still persists to this day. I thought the banshee was like, it yelled and it hurt you with noise. Well, that's one type of banshee. Oh, boy. From this region, the banshees are well known for their ba-ba-ba, you know?

They're silent. Exactly, exactly. But I thought that was like the defining characteristic. That's the one thing people know about. And maybe that's because of the Marvel character banshee. Well, that could be. I mean, I feel like banshee is a fairly... Screaming like a banshee is kind of an expression.

It's in the monster's manual. Dungeons and Dragons style. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If Gygax put it in a monster's manual, it's pretty set in stone. What color clothes does the banshee have in the Gygax manual? Because that's going to spoot. It's hattered. All right.

Someone tell Josh. I don't think the color is standardized, but the tatters are. Yeah, so now... Is she crying? What did you do to her? See, that's what I want to know. Wow.

Who... That depends on what... Who wronged the banshee? Well, I mean, everybody did. Yeah. We all share the blame. So we get into twin tracks here. Okay.

This is where Kutchen and Striever kind of start branching on separate pathways. All right. Kutchen's going to start talking about his book. And Striever has a story to tell. So I think you're going to see these start to play out over this next couple stretch. The afterlife isn't some sort of realm where time is held in stasis and you just get to be amongst everyone who's passed on.

There are ideas in older cosmologies, especially from Egypt or ancient Imperial China, that the afterlife was, again, a mirror version of this world where, you know, according to that, you would have to get up and work and there might be technological process that happens on the other side of this veil, just as there's technological process, the technological progress that happens on this side of that as well. You know, Egyptian farmers would have to get up and plow their fields and worship all the same gods and basically life just continued. So once you take that little tidbit of information and you frame it within some

speculation and you follow it, which has been around for quite some time, that this is literally afterlife technology, it starts to get really bizarre. That sucks. Yep. He bums me out. Yeah. If there is like an afterlife that is eternal and you still have to have a job. Yeah.

Fuck. The worst. Fuck. The worst. I mean, I like podcasting. I enjoy this, but I still don't want to do this for eternity. No, no, no, absolutely. I have no idea why anybody wants eternity.

That's the worst idea to me. It seems, it seems tough. There's no end to it. Yeah. Now what that did though, is that got Striper a little bit excited because he started talking about technology from the other side, from the afterlife. Okay. Like a, like a rake or a sickle for the farmer.

Well, a little bit different because Striper is fairly convinced that his cochlear implant was brought over from the other side. It is technology from the dead lands. This makes sense. And he is going to start telling us a little bit about it. Okay. Okay. This one.

Sounds good. This is going to go, this, we'll see what happens. Well, I think it must because I was certainly convinced that, that that was exactly. I mean, that's what he said, what the man said. But you know, something fascinating about that man and folks, those of you who don't know this story, I have a name real quick. This is a, this is a long clip. So you can cut in at any time.

This story, this story meanders. Well, sure. But I mean, that makes it all the more important for me to pay attention because I got to track these dumb thoughts. You're going to enjoy it. Also, isn't, don't you have some experience in the world of cochlear type implants and hearing aids and stuff from the dammed. Are you sure?

I'm positive. 100% sure they have not been brought over from the other side. See, but I mean, you were involved in that industry. This makes, it sounds like a cover up honestly. Well, I mean, actually I was in the hearing aid part. I wasn't in the cochlear implant part. So I only know that hearing aids thoroughly earthbound. See, you know, you don't have any grounds to talk about this.

You're right. You're right. All of my expertise out the window was that, but there was a doctor who was keen to get it x-rayed and he was on his way to asking me to get it removed. This is a second, there was a removal attempt years ago that failed, fortunately. But in any case, I wasn't going to get it removed. But whoever was involved with it did not necessarily. Real quick, when he says it, is it like a tumor or something?

No, just a cochlear implant. Oh, okay. He's a dead cochlear. I didn't know what the it was in the, okay. Yeah, yeah. It's his other side technology. Right, right. Yeah, yeah.

They wanted to reinforce the importance of leaving it in. Let me put it that way. So a couple of nights before the CAT scan was set up, I had a visit from two men, one of whom I know. And I say I know him because I've seen him three or four times in my life. I've seen him when he was a boy. I've seen him. I had seen him when I went, I went out to the desert one night to spend just a time completely alone out in the desert.

And then I've seen him this additional time. And he proceeded to explain it all to me and to explain the Constantine Rodovay story and everything then said that it basically had been its technology as Joshua just said from the other side, but here's an interesting kicker. The man is identical to a man I know well in this world who has no idea I'm going to tell him. In fact, we're going to have lunch later later today. And I'm going to tell him the story for the first time. He's going to love it.

He also is. I love the story. I'm sorry. One of the strangest things that has ever happened in my life and in his, I had a- He doesn't know about it though. He's never heard the story. He was a visitor years and years ago.

I don't have those now, fortunately. I'm not the type. There was in the room, it was filled with people. It was in the room in the cabin where it happened and it was filled with people. One of whom I knew and he was an intelligence officer. I've known for a long time and I filed that away. I didn't- Not important yet.

Didn't think anything more of it. I never told a soul the name, not my wife, not anyone. I've never spoken it. Fast forward 30 years. No, I won't. I meet this man that I'm just talking about, the normal human part of it. And he proceeds to tell me of his encounter experience, which is total blackness. He doesn't remember anything about it except it happened and he was reading a detective novel.

He was a boy when it happened. I met him when he was a boy too or a version of him and he came away from the experience. He said with only one thing, he had been remembered that he had been told underline a name in a detective novel he was reading and he was told that this person knew something that he had been told never to discuss with anybody ever. The name in the detective novel was the name of the guy who witnessed that sexual encounter with a visitor. You were so ready to respond.

You were not ready for the kicker. Well, I will say for about the last minute of that clip, people can't see this, but I was waving a pen in the air like, haha. And then yeah, you really hit me at the end today. Now I don't know what's going on because here's what I was thinking. I was like, I get it. I get it because here's what I get. This guy is like he saw this guy as a kid because the other guy, the kid,

was having a visitation from aliens and all he had was blackness. And so he doesn't know anything. And that was because the aliens were using him to visit Whitley. Right. I got it. You got it. Yes, you got the story. You got the story.

But then the sexual encounter and the name in the detective book. I kind of lost track of that. The only name that he underlined in the book. That man. Hercules Poirot. And that's the man who witnessed my sexual encounter with the other. Oh my God. Wait, why was someone watching him fucking?

That is unknown. This is part of a story that he's told plenty of times he must have. But for me, I enjoy the mystery. So I'm trying to put together the whole totality of this. Yeah. So he's been visited by this person three times in his life or so. Right. Right.

And this person looks identical to somebody that he knows in his real life who he's going to have lunch with. Correct. And this guy, when he was a kid, had a visitation. Right. And it was all just darkness. Correct. And that was because his body was being used to visit Whitley.

Fast forward. 30 years. 30 years. Now this guy had underlined a name in a detective book because it was the name of somebody who had watched Whitley fucking Goats. Yes. That is correct. That is the story.

Do they talk about this at lunch? You know what? Let's hear Kutcher's responses real quick. OK. Yeah. It seems like quite a challenge. Yeah. Let me give you the full responses.

OK. But that's the one that makes the most sense. He's going to say more words. But that's what that's this response. Fair enough. Yeah. It's like these little mystery boxes that get developed. And it's this.

I'm hoping you'll tell me a little bit about the relationship between the guy who I know and who's absolutely no idea of any of the other meetings I've had with him or his doppelganger or whatever. What are the what is going on here? What are these two people? Well, it really relates to your book. It does not relate to his book whatsoever. But if his book is like this sort of pan idea of then it does.

Everything relates to his book. Exactly. That's the problem. Right. You can hear Kutcher be like, well, you know, there's stuff inside of stuff. This isn't what I'm supposed to be here for. And he's like, screw you. We're talking about this guy now.

Well, Whitney is just like, does this guy who I know in the real world have blackmail on me from watching me fuck a ghost? This is what we are talking about now. Should I be worried about him having leverage? He seems really concerned. Interesting. Yeah. And I mean, it is going to go on straight.

He is focused again. This is another long clip. So stop whatever you want. But I'm glad for it, though, because I do need context. I know. Often been tied to all manner of phenomena. And it seems like something like that might be what was going on in that scenario that you outlined that's that a part of this individual maybe even displaced from time for all I know,

because I think that time plays some sort of component in all of these experiences. But a part of this individual was able to sort of wander off on its own and obtain this other information that that he normally wouldn't have had access to. I don't know. When I first saw him, he was a boy. He was about 13. I encountered him at a baseball game and he was sitting with a gentleman from the Department of Defense whom I knew who interfaced with the tall blonde people of legend.

And in Boulder, Colorado, they're gone now. They're not there anymore. And that's all shut down. But in those days, it was very active. And I was rather surprised to see him. And I assumed he was with three children. And I assumed these children were something special because he wouldn't have been with them otherwise.

And it was quite clear after a couple of moments at the baseball game, I was ended up seemingly randomly ticketed sitting beside them. But there was nothing random about it, I'm sure. They could read my mind. They were good readers, the kids. So I figured whatever is going on here, I don't want to interface with him directly because there's all kinds of problems that I'm with the grays and with the blondes. You cannot imagine.

Believe me, it's a path that you don't want to go down if you're deeply enmeshed in this. I didn't say anything to him. And they left after a little while. But boy, you talk out here about fairy births. Fairy births. He has a, I don't want to call it a talent, but a penchant for switching topics pretty fast. That story didn't help me, I'll be honest. I mean, from what I could take away from that story, here's what's going on.

All right. He went to a baseball game and this guy was sitting next to him with his kids. And his kids, the guys kids were talking to him and it sounded like they knew exactly what he was thinking. Right. They were good readers. Right, right, right. Above their grade level. Right, right, right.

But he wouldn't talk to their dad because their dad is allied with the tall blonde people. Right. And he's with the grays. He's with the grays. You don't want to be caught set tripping. Of course not. You don't want to be caught in between those two. No, no, no. That's just a, you know, but they're still, they're not the big fight.

You know, they can still be friendly enough to watch a baseball game in silence. What age is he? Cause I, I assumed that this guy who is going to have lunch with and himself were of similar ages. Right. And so he would be a kid at that point too. Right. Right.

So why is he, uh, why does he know the DOD agent who's talking to the kid if he himself, if Whitley himself is a kid? See, now that's a problem that I'm having too. I don't know, but maybe he's an adult. I think he's an adult in the story. Maybe he's a bit older than this lunch partner. I think he's, I think in this situation, he's an old man himself. Like this is like in the past couple of years or so, this story.

So he's still in his mid seventies and this friend is like fifties or so. Right. But then he shows up as a kid. Well, that's when he saw him in his dreams as a kid. How does he know what he looked like as a kid? That's the thing. I don't know what you look like as a kid. He was about 13.

Okay. He knows that he was about 13 and it seems like he was the kid. Yep. Lot of holes in this story. There are quite a few. Lot of holes. This is, this next part is just funny. I just, I just love this part.

Okay. Oh, another thing I wanted to ask you so badly is just driving me crazy. The fairies adverse, adverse, they're adverse to iron. My cabin is unover one of the largest seams of iron on planet earth. The iron mountains record storage facility is drilled into it about 20 miles north of the cabin. The whole place is magnetic. Yeah. It's, it's interesting because I think that here's the only thing I think here.

What? Fairy and pharum, you know, the Latin word for iron. Yep. That's kind of what I'm thinking is a play here. Yeah. What's, what's funny to me is that was not a question. I'm just telling him that he lives on a bunch of iron. Well, he's opening up the question of what's the deal with fairies being adverse to iron.

I mean, I don't know if he is. I think he's, I think he might be asking if fairies will still come to his place if he lives on top of all this iron. I would say not based on the available information. From what I can tell. Steer clear of iron mountain. Yep. It must be.

It is just pharum though, right? I mean, like that's just what, that's the whole thing that's going on here. That's the whole connection. It's just, that's all it does. Word sounds similar. You got it. Yep. That's how.

Humophone. That's pretty much it. Yep. So something we know and love about Alex is his ability to go to ad breaks. Yeah. He's the best, best of the business. He's, he's amazing. Let's see how Whitley compares to that.

Well, I feel like I was brought here to do a job and it never occurred to anyone involved that there's such a thing as a vacation. So here I am anyway. I forgot the first break completely. You'll be delighted to know free Dreamlanders. So I might blast you more with a little banner saying to please subscribe, which you will not do. But that's okay. Here, let's do a break now.

Here's, here's a break and probably be the only break in the show. Darn it. Okay. Here we go. Free Dreamlanders. Goodbye for a few minutes. Watch these things and then we'll be back with Joshua Cutchin. The ecology of souls and his website is Joshua Cutchin.com.

I think he's depressed. Whitley Striper is not doing well. That sounded sad. Which you won't do. Right. Certainly not now. No, absolutely not after that. Just thinking about it.

I'll put the thing up to tell you to subscribe, but you're not fucking going to. God damn it. I don't even care. The weirdest thing is that I saw a child who was Whitley and he told me to subscribe. Oh no! Oh, that was cut to 30 years later. Yeah.

I'm watching him fuck a ghost. That's the part that you just can't ever get past. That's the end of that story. Yeah. So this, the break is just a commercial for his, you know, documentary about how he was under automatic writing, hypnosis kind of thing. Sure. And he's telling the story of how he had sex with an alien or whatever it is.

Boy, that seems really primary. And it's just a much bigger thing. What's great about it is it's just sleep paralysis. It's so obviously just sleep paralysis. They're even just going through like the symptoms. Pressure under the chest. Everything. Everything about it is just sleep paralysis.

And it's intercut with these lifetime style recreations. So there's plenty of like, like that just. Oh, so it's so funny. Sound effect work. So funny. Yeah. And then as we come back to break, I want you to hear this because this is bananas to me. Have you ever read Communion or have you never read Communion?

It's out in a new edition. Very powerful, a subtly new cover that reflects the fact that the visitors are now looking back at us because they truly are. You can get it from the unknowncountry.com store as a Kindle, as a beautiful sumptuous paperback or as an unabridged audio book read by me. No. It's the first time in the whole life of Communion that it has been read in full in audio format and believe you me.

I felt that reading. I put my life, my memories into it and I trust you can hear it in the voice. I sure felt it while I was reading. So get Communion, listen to it, read it. Communion is of central importance to all of our lives. We're talking to Joshua Cutsch. That was a live read. No, I heard the audio change a tiny bit there.

I don't think it was. I think it was. I mean, it's possible, but I think there's a chance that was pretty important. I feel like it was a library. If it was a pity, Josh, I know that's uncomfortable. That was real creepy. So I'm looking this up here and Communion came out in 1987. So for the year I was born, a happy birthday, holy shit.

So for however many years that is 30 something years, right? There has been no demand for an audio book. 36 years. Not one time has it been read on audio. Zero people have been like, hold on. You've got to get an audio book out there. We need this. Come on.

We need this now. We need a sumptuous audio book. Publisher wasn't like, Hey man, while we're at it, we're going to reprint it. How about you do an audio book for 35 years or whatever? I don't want it. I mean, look, I don't know. You must have an audience or a fan base, but I think it's not a selling point that he write it. I know.

I agree. I think anybody else reading it in that voice, that weird NPR garrison keeler, but creepy voice. Yeah. Yeah. There's a menace. If you've ever read it or if you've never read it. Yeah. I'm going to skip over the next little chunk because they start talking about drugs and DMT

and they start talking about otherworldly experiences and then about and then Whitley strivers like, Hey, have you ever listened to Rogan? No. No. Here's the worst part. Then after like five, 10 minutes of talking, both of them go, I've never done. I've never done any hallucinogenics at all. Not what get the fuck out of here.

That's not appropriate. Not appropriate. So we're going to skip over. That's what I imagine it's like. We're going to skip over that chunk. And then we'll catch up after they pretend that drugs are bad or whatever. Tell us about the symbolism. Well, you know, you've got you've got a lot of these different figures throughout a lot of

different cultures that are called psychopops. And if you're not familiar with that term, you are just through cultural osmosis. We think of, you know, some of the celebrities would be like the Grim Reaper or the Angel of Death or Anibis in Egypt or Hermes in Greece, Odin and or Valqueries and some Norse mythologies. But these are figures that lead you across that threshold. They take you and they guide you across that threshold. Depending upon the certain religious system, you might actually see them crop up in your lives during points of transition as well.

Not only these figures, but also you see certain natural phenomena like the sun and the moon serving the psychopomp role of carrying souls to the afterlife. And you also see animals and the animals that you see almost embody almost always embody themes of companionship and or transportation. And those are things like dogs, obviously, leading you and guiding you and being a faithful companion. Horses, which can take you places that born animals, birds, which can travel to places that they can on their own. Also, there's anything that is winged, including moths.

And, you know, it was very common in certain Mesoamerican societies to think of anything we moths and butterflies as being psychopomps that actually carry the soul away on your wings. And well, that's because moths are creepy. I mean, that's one reason. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Not like you're not doing this with a butterfly or like a bee.

Well, a butterfly is a psychopomp in Mesoamerican cultures. What about a bee? Bee, I think bees are pretty chill, but they've got wings. So they might as well be mosquito, anything that has wings. He literally said anything with wings. Sure. Put it all on the board. Okay.

That's pterodactyl. But here is here is his psychopomp pterodactyl. Here's his thesis. That's my new alias. That's what he's doing. Whenever he stops doing the anthropology textbook, he gets into the new mythology he's creating, which is essentially this. We're all scared of death.

And these are all things that we've made up to help us get to dying. All of it. Right. All of it. UFOs. What do you think a UFO is if not a fairy? If somebody was in 1500s, they wouldn't know what a UFO is. They'd say it was a fairy.

If somebody was in the thousands, they wouldn't say it was a fairy. They'd say it was a gin. If somebody was in the 500s, they wouldn't say it's a gin. They would say it's a butt, you know? So he's just tracing all this same shit back and back and back until you get to the very beginning. And what it really is, they're all afraid of death. Oh.

And yeah, the sun. And moths. And moths. The whole thing. Let me try this on. Sure. Psychopomp and psychocircumstance. I don't know what that is.

You love Pockelbel. Yeah. You're a huge Pockelbel guy. Is that your graduate? That's when you graduate to Psychopomp School. That's what's canon. Pockelbel is canon in D. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Pockelbel in Circumstance is the marching band. No, it's the marching band, but in my head, it's all graduation shit. OK, yeah. Because that was the one that was sampled by Vitamin C. Yes, that's canon in D. For the graduation song. Well, actually, if you look into the history of canon in D,

you'll find that it's a regular motif for both songs. As we go around. Oh, God, I hate that song so much. We remember. Don't do this. How maw this reminds us of death. I was 15. Oh, God.

But yeah, so everything is about death. Right. Or is it? I think it must be. Or it could be. Or maybe not. There's more. There's more.

But if you look at the Psychopomp motif, a lot of the behaviors of what popular ufology would call UFO occupants seems to mirror a lot of the behavior that these Psychopomps have. What's more, I mean, the UFO is a transportation metaphor. Like that's primarily what it is. It's what everybody talks about who's interested in UFOs, where they are, where they come from,

how do they go here, look at the way that they travel. It's all about transportation. And transportation metaphors are almost always metaphors of transition to the other world or to the other side. Sure, the river sticks. See, that's the whole thing. Mm-hmm.

All right. Now, is it actually about technology from the future? Or from the other side? Well, I mean, there's technological elements to it, the spacecraft. Sure. Or the boat on the sticks. Right, Stryber's ear implant.

Which is a transitionary from hearing to not hearing. Sure, argument could be made. You know, we know, at least I know, and that the other side does have technology because I'm wearing some of it. And so therefore, why wouldn't UFOs be technology from another world? Now, that gets me to the fact that...

That is a house built on sand. There is nothing supporting any of those premises. Nope, nope. Just because we've established that my earpiece is from the Deadland. Therefore, there's technology from the Deadland over here. So why not UFOs? Exactly.

Here's the thing. Here's the thing about this, and this is why I feel like this is our most non-racist interview or whatever to date. Seems just silly, kind of. Exactly, because there are no metaphors for like the other is the Jew in this situation. The other is the other.

It's just, it's real. It's the literal other. Why are you even talking about Jews? Or why are you racist? It's just, it's there. Yeah. There's no mistaking it for something else. You're going to listen to three more episodes of this,

and you're like, I take it all back. I'm never going to listen to three more episodes. That's the point. This is pure and fun. I think there's going to be quite a demand for you to listen to way more of this. No, now I'm going to find out. This is our new Project Camelot.

We'll see. So anyways, at the end of that, he said, can you guess what the fact is? That he, at the end of it, he goes, well, the fact is, can you guess what it is? I'll tell you, if you think it's one fact, you are wrong. I was going to say something along the lines of like, you don't need birth control when you fuck ghost.

Something like that. I don't know. That would be a fact. Now, that gets me to the fact that I have A, been in another world in a jeep with another guy's kid, which my listeners all know these stories. What? And I've ridden a bicycle in another world down this

street here about a year ago, year and a half ago. So are these worlds, is there really sort of an ethereal world of the dead, or are we kind of oscillating back and forth between two very physical universes? Or a third possibility. No, there are no third possibility. I think that riding the bike in another world is interesting, but far less interesting than him kidnapping a child

in a jeep and taking them to the land of the dead. That's right. I was in another world in a jeep with another guy's kid. Yeah. Every step of that sentence gets worse. Then he just goes, the listeners all know this story. Like that's a totally fine. It's in the court transcripts.

Yeah, exactly. Listen, we don't need to go over this every single time. I did my nickel. Yeah, I can get into the details, but you know, legally I can't. Yeah, absolutely. There's an agreement. Oh, man. This is an important message to send.

Don't get into other people's dreams. Not even in another world. Yeah. I mean, again, it's just sleep paralysis. That's all this is. On a bike? Yeah, exactly. Sleep paralysis on a bike?

Sleep paralysis on a bike in another world. If he is asleep driving this jeep with another person's kid, that's more dangerous. That's a real problem. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He should do more than five. There needs to be regulations on that. Yeah.

So finally, Kutchin's going to get his chance to talk about his thing a little bit. And I mean, again, he's trying to synthesize all of this into one just, you know, we're all afraid of death kind of idea. I hesitate a lot of times to go down the interdimensional rabbit hole, because I think that we conceptualize dimensions in a pretty strange way. Like we think of it as a place that you go when really if you look at, you know, essays like Flatland and whatnot, it's about, it's about, you know, if someone is a two dimensional figure and you put your

finger on the page, they're not going to see your finger. They're just going to see a circle or a dot, right? So I think that sometimes we just glitch in and out of these other things. And I think that sometimes we go there wherever you see an instance of missing time, which happens in, yes, the UFO experience, but also Fairyland experiences, and also NDE's and also some cryptid encounters, much to my surprise. Much to your surprise. You know, even in some instances of, you know, shamanic traveling or out of body

traveling, things like that. So you're saying that's all going into Deadland? Yep, all of it. That's his big revelation. And that's why the secret for him is like that even crypto zoology kind of situations are actually this whole thing. He used to be, I mean, he used to be the guy with otherworldly smells, man. He was the one who'd tell you what hell smelled like sulfur.

Yeah. Look, what about the ecology though? I don't feel like I've gotten any grasp on ecological ideas. Well, I mean, essentially it is here are all these creatures. Do they use photosynthesis? I mean, honestly, he does get into some things like that where he'll be like, but I go whole book was about the food. Totally.

No, no, he does. He's like, I quote Keats. When Keith said that this is but that he's like clearly that means no shit. That means that fairies eat this. You know, it's like that's totally what he does. He just quotes anybody making up anything. I will quote this literature metaphor. 100% as if it's true.

100% what he does. What a dick. I mean, he's got Blavatsky in there. Of course, he's got the classics, but he's just throwing in anything. He's like, oh, and the Canterbury tales. We see that horses have actually ridden into the space. Well, we know that horses are psychic. Exactly.

Well, this is been proven. That is true. So yeah, I mean, he wraps it up here. And I mean, I kind of there are some things. Again, like I his thought process makes a certain amount of sense. If you if you follow it, he's just created a completely different world where it it happens. Right. Well, the thought process is OK, but the looking at empirical evidence should

lead you using that thought process to conclude that this is all bullshit. Correct. Yeah. Yes. He just skipped the part with the evidence. Right. It's kind of it's kind of fascinating. The thought process.

I don't have a problem. It's the application. I think I think what it is is for so long, you know, we've been living with people who don't live in reality, but in such a way as to exploit it or or to like alter it in some way. Whereas it feels like this guy was just like, nope, pass on reality. Just no pass. I'm going to do something else. Right.

That's what I'm doing. I'm going to go to Fairyland. Yeah. That's what I'm doing. Cool. Yep. And what happens when a culture, a global culture has mapped more or less every square inch of the planet and we find that there isn't the other world here on earth?

What happens to that? I would argue that it gets transposed to the stars and that all that baggage that we've always had of the Psycho Pomp's boat of the, you know, the transport of the sun pulling over the horses, pulling the chariot of the sun across the sky. All that gets transposed to this very 20th, 21st century motif of the UFO experience, I think. Sure. Yeah. His point is basically we create things based upon our responses to culture and belief system.

And they're essentially the same things going back and back and back. We just update them as we update technology. Right. And the idea that underlies the like, okay, so somewhere on earth there is this underworld or whatever. And then we go around, we find there is no underworld. Right. So we put it into the stars.

Right. And then eventually we're going to be able to go into the stars and we're going to find it's not there. Exactly. So there'll be another thing. It's because the underlying thought or whatever it is, is what's more important than the idea of actually finding the underworld or whatever. So now if you were to take this and to just look at it from like, okay, now let's apply

this to like human psychology. Right. That seems like an appropriate next step. Correct. But I don't feel like that's what he's doing. No. Okay. Yeah.

Cool. Yeah. I mean, it is kind of fascinating in so far as he tries to reconcile that with this idea of co-creation, right? So he acknowledges that all of this stuff is in our heads. That's the reality of it. But. But there is also another world where it's actually real.

See, fairies have a physical body double, my friend. Right. And that is how things work. They exist in your head and except in that other world. Right. We create them and they exist and that's how it works. Right. So we, you know, on a map, it used to be there be monsters.

You know, it's just what you're saying. It's it's there be hippogriffs. It's the inverse of its turtles all the way down. You know, it's it's just always going to be another turtle. Yeah, yeah. Isn't that that's the the that concept? Is that like a tulpa? You heard of that?

No, I don't think so. I believe that's the the name of like an idea of like something that you think of and it becomes real that like the manifestation of an imaginary thing. Yeah, yeah. That's that's a term that I've heard like used in some of these other like sort of project Camelot interviews and stuff. People with these sort of the theosophist or paranormal ideas. Right.

Right. I mean, that's that's kind of what he's he's that's why people love him so much is because he's trying to make it so everything is real the way you believe it. But the way where everybody's mixing things up is they're forgetting that this is all about transitioning into the other world. It's not about fighting or belief systems or whatever it is. It's all created because you're afraid of death. You mean to tell me that it is okay if somebody who associates with the tall blonde aliens is

hanging out at a baseball game with someone who hangs out with a great and now you have figured it out. We've all come to the right place. But what if I want to hold on to this idea of others and project Camelot's right around the corner for you, buddy? I guess it is. And so how does Striper respond to this tour de force of his argument, the summation of ufology, the whole thing? I'm going to guess he says you lived in Wisconsin.

And yeah, excuse me, folks for the eye. I have major allergies as always. I think everybody does these days anyway. Oh, I have remembered the break, but I think it's not a break. This is the end of the show for the proofing. The end. That was that was his response. He was just, oh, I've remembered the break.

I have allergies. I'm confused. It's a break. Oh, no, it's the end of the show. Yep. Yep. That's the whole thing. Huzzah.

Yep. Yep. That's not it. That's that's kind of a ending with a whimper, you know. Yep. Well, I mean, I guess the show continued on behind a paywall, but it's just not happening. Yeah. Not happening.

But that's where they got into the real stuff, man. Kind of. I honestly almost did just because I wanted to see if he finished the stories. The story of the other guy who was going to lunch. Totally. Absolutely. I'm going to guess not. Yeah.

I would love to. Here's what I want you to do. What's that? I want you to keep listening. I want you. I need you to find the story of the guy in the Jeep with other persons. Good. I do need to find that story for legal reasons.

I think you need to find that story. Right, right, right. Because otherwise we are sitting on something that maybe needs to be reported to the authorities. That's a good point. That is a good point. I think we're sitting on a lot of things that might need to be reported in this circumstance. Yeah. So this is interesting.

I mean, it's benign. It seems like for the most part. That's what I was going for. I wanted fun, benign fun. No looking our eyes away from the veiled bullshit. Sure. It's just right there. It's all real.

But the lesson that we've learned from doing this show for, you know, five, six years is that that doesn't exist. That is still in here somewhere. Probably. Yeah. But not from the guy who plays the funk tuba. That's fair. That is always safe harbor.

If you're playing the funk tuba, I mean, come on. It takes a certain confidence to take up the tuba. It does. You know. Yeah, yeah. It's not it's not an instrument that most people gravitate towards. Yeah. What's that one that the sousaphone wraps around you?

That's the that's the marching tuba, if you will. Yeah, that one. That's a lot. That's a man who's worn a lot of sousaphone's in his day. And as a former marching band member, I salute you sir. I did not. I did not join the marching band. Like I said, I played French horn for a little while and then I quit because it sucked.

Well, Dan, that's the end of the episode that I have for you. Well, thank you. I would say this has been a lot of fun. Thank you, Jordan. Appreciate you finding something benign to talk about. Well, I think I think next week we'll have an episode for you. Probably not in Dreamland. No, certainly.

I think we may actually even like find out what the predictions for 2023 are. Oh, I'm excited. Still kind of up in the air at this point. I'm excited. But until then, we have a website. That's right. It's knowledgefight.com. And we are on Twitter.

Yeah, it's knowledge underscore fight. And I am neither Neo, Leo, DZX Clark, nor am I Daryl Rundis. I'm not the juiciest ice cube. I am, you know, I'm just, I'm just Jordan. You are the Psycho Pomp and Psycho Circumstance. That's what I am. And now here comes the sex robots. Andy and Kansas, you're on the air.

Thanks for holding. Hello, Alex. I'm a first time caller. I'm a huge fan. I love your work. I love you.