Knowledge Fight - #765: Formulaic Objections Part 13

Episode Date: January 9, 2023

Today, Dan and Jordan still don't have Alex's 2023 predictions to discuss, so they take the opportunity to break down the deposition of Alex's head of business operations, who doesn't seem to like Alex or his show all that much. (Note: there is a little audio problem around the 54:00 point in the episode that I couldn't repair.  Apologies to your ears)

I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys, Shang, we are the bad guys. I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys, Shang, we are the bad guys. I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys, Shang, we are the bad guys. I'm sick of them posing as if they're the bad guys, Shang, we are the bad guys. I'm sick of them posing as if they're the bad guys, Shang, we are the bad guys. I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys, Shang, we are the bad guys. I'm sick of them posing as if they're the bad guys, Shang, we are the bad guys. I'm sick of them posing as if they're the bad guys, Shang, we are the bad guys.

I'm sick of them posing as if they're the bad guys, Shang, we are the bad guys. I'm sick of them posing as if they're the bad guys. I'm sick of them posing as if they're the bad guys, Shang, we are the bad guys. I'm sick of them posing as if they're the bad guys. I'm sick of them posing as if they're the bad guys. I'm sick of them posing as if they're the bad guys. I'm sick of them posing as if they're the bad guys. I'm sick of them posing as if they're the bad guys.

I'm sick of them posing as if they're the bad guys. I'm sick of them posing as if they're the bad guys. I'm sick of them posing as if they're the bad guys. I'm sick of them posing as if they're the bad guys. I'm sick of them posing as if they're the bad guys. I'm sick of them posing as if they're the bad guys. I'm sick of them posing as if they're the bad guys. I'm sick of them posing as if they're the bad guys.

I'm sick of them posing as if they're the bad guys. I'm sick of them posing as if they're the bad guys. I'm sick of them posing as if they're the bad guys. I'm sick of them posing as if they're the bad guys. I'm sick of them posing as if they're the bad guys. I'm sick of them posing as if they're the bad guys. I'm sick of them posing as if they're the bad guys. I'm sick of them posing as if they're the bad guys.

I'm sick of them posing as if they're the bad guys. I'm sick of them posing as if they're the bad guys. I'm sick of them posing as if they're the bad guys. I'm sick of them posing as if they're the bad guys. I'm sick of them posing as if they're the bad guys. I'm sick of them posing as if they're the bad guys. I was stressed to the max. I have some health conditions and the stress was getting to me and everything kind of came

to a head when me and Alex got into an argument and I grabbed my bag told him to go off and walked out and that was the end of it. He was just complaining about everything I was trying to help. He was complaining about something else. I don't remember too much of the details but it was Alex being Alex as far as just I can't say the word because I don't want to swear but he was just being a jerk. So Alex is being an asshole. He's being a real piece of shit.

Get the sense from listening to this and watching this that maybe Tim doesn't like Alex that much. I mean you know that's the problem with your foreshadowing on him being the worst person maybe. Potentially. He's up there. You know that kind of thing. But for a very interesting reason. Well see here's what I'm getting. Here's why my first hackles are being raised.

This seems like a person who is capable of agency and thought. And that makes him terrifying. Bingo. Because that's a big part of it. He chooses to go be the worst person you know like. And he's a bit of a straight shooter. You know like he's willing to say like Alex is a fucking asshole. They got into a fight and that's why I quit.

That's concerning. Yeah why did you quit. Alex was being Alex. He's not going to not be Alex. What are you talking about. Yeah why do you think I quit. Would you. Yeah absolutely.

Of course. Of course I would quit. Very understandable. And because this is you know fairly early in the deposition. It starts to give you a good impression of him. Because you're like yeah. That makes total sense. You know you put up with it for a long time.

You're probably making way more money than you would have been. In some other career. It makes sense. And they finally had enough of this asshole. And you left. Sure. I mean the problem though is the more agency you have. The more responsibility you have for your actions.

You know. So that's the way it's always kind of the math has worked out in my head. I think Alex is a piece of shit. But I also don't think Alex really can control his behavior at this point. You know like. That's a. He's the slave of many decisions that he made years and years ago. Exactly.

Pressures that he has put upon himself. Right. But he still has complete agency. I disagree with you on that. But I don't mean that. But there are influences that are pushing him. Totally. In various directions.

Totally. I do agree with you that. Tim has more awareness and more. Sort of clarity of decision making than a lot of the other people that we've seen. Deposed or. Just generally in the info warfare. Yeah. And.

He doesn't seem as desperate either. That as. No. Some of these other. Dorks. Right. So yeah. He quit because Alex treated him poorly.

You quit. I quit. Okay. That you were under a lot of stress. In that stress. Has to do with your responsibilities or the way in which. Mr. Jones was supervising you or some kind of. The way.

All the issues that at that place there are. First fires every day. And. At that moment. The reason I walked out. It was the way in Alex Jones was treating me. So that's interesting in that. Like.

He seems like if there's forest fires every day. Then a high pressure work environment. Yeah. Isn't necessarily. Something that's going to be like why you quit. Right. So something you're used to. That's how things work around here.

Right. It's just Alex being a dick. It's Alex being an asshole. Yep. Which but that's another thing about the choices there. Is that. If he is saying that that is happening. And that's why he quit.

And also saying there's forest fires every day. What that means is that he's watched. Alex be an asshole to countless people. And watched them run out. And this is when Alex started being a real piece of shit to him. Personally. You know what I mean. Yeah.

Well that could be. I have some slight theories that are. Maybe impossible to prove. But there reason by this next clip. When you left in September 20 to Utah. Is that right. That is correct. And did you find work in Utah.

Yes. Where were you working. Ready Alliance Group. What's that. It is actually a dry cleaning. The. The storeable food company that. No.

No. With the storeable food that he sold. Yes. Your relationship. And as a result of your work free speech systems. Correct. So there's a part of this that is. You know kind of understandable.

You're the guy who's working in these business relationships. Sure. You would know these people and you could go like hey you know you got a place. Totally. You're the guy that makes some sense. But then you also have to consider that this is September 2020. This is during the you know sort of. Middle beginning of the COVID time.

Yeah. This is when Alex is pushing the sort of the. Storeable food. Super hard. Yeah. To the point where they are needing to expand. They are setting up new warehouses. They are a company that is in severe growth.

And they would not be too surprised if there was an understanding. Or something. Where it's like you go work. Go work for them for a bit. Yeah. Or something. I can't prove that just a total theory. But Alex maintained a very, very close relationship with the storeable food people.

That continued through this time. There was. I don't even remember when it was. There was like a time that he went to Utah himself. Yeah. The storeable food. Visiting that. Yep.

It seems like this is all way too closely connected for it to just be like. I quit info wars and I got a job at their main one of their main sponsors. Yeah. I will say this about that though. Is that to me that makes a lot of sense just from a. Like no. No. A malicious behavior kind of situation just because.

If you're making 200 K a year and you want to leave that job. There aren't many jobs where you could step into a similar kind of salary point without having an intense personal relationship with the people already there. It's true. So you know maybe if he's not going to go start at McDonald's or some shit. No. He gets over there. Maybe he doesn't make as much money, but he's got a position over there.

He's not starting over. There's a benign explanation for. Totally. And I understand that. And I think that there's a very decent chance that that is what is at play. I also have some misgivings about how Alex would take that. Yeah. Totally.

If he leaves on bad terms with info wars. Totally. I find it kind of hard to believe that Alex would be okay with him taking a role that earns somewhere in the ballpark of two hundred thousand dollars. Right. At his one of his main sponsors. Right. I find that difficult, but it is possible.

I don't know. It's just weird with with people such as they. Have established a track record of malicious behavior in situations that do not require it or even ask it. Yeah. You know, and you know, this is definitely a situation where it's like, Hey, it's possible to read too much into this. I acknowledge that.

Totally. It's just weird. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, you know, I bet ordering dinner, there's something shady going on with these assholes. You know, you can't tell. You don't even know why.

Yep. Yep. Yep. And they're the type of people who drink half a drink and then send it back and say, that's not what I ordered. Alex, Alex made his kid a rope swing under a tree branch. Uh-oh. Shady.

Shady shit right there. So they discuss the revenue streams that come into enforce. Obviously back in the day, it was, you know, the supplements weren't there. So you had things like advertising, gold sales, the cut kickbacks of all the, the filters, the whole thing. You had, you had a lot of that. Yeah. But then there was another thing.

And Mr. Jones continued to sell advertising, correct? So what I believe, yes, at that time, he was still selling advertising. Right. We talked about that. I'm basically talking about the period between 2007 and 2000, right? So there were times where no, there were no at, like advertising sponsors of anything. At certain time periods, I couldn't tell you which ones throughout that, that timeframe, there was no sponsors or advertisers.

And that's the part because Mr. Jones would advertise his own products rather than third party products on his program, correct? Correct. And in addition to advertising products, you would also charge individuals who wanted to appear on this show and wanted to highlight their own products. Correct. Correct. This is the first time that there has been concrete recognition of pay to play.

Yeah. We've been talking about that for years. It's been suggested by a number of folks. It's something that's been discussed on message boards and people have theorized about it. Anonymous comments. But yeah, this is the first time that I can say that there is like actually definitive. This is something that Alex offered. You can pay to get him to promote your stuff and pretend that it is just a regular interview.

You got it. And that's pretty shady. We're going to get more into this later in the deposition. So put a pin in that. But that was a really big moment in terms of my understanding of how Alex operates. There's so many times where it's like, there's no way that this is not pay to play, but to have them concretely say it, that's comforting. Yeah.

And you'll be surprised to learn what the rates were. Oh, no, but not high enough or too high is the question I have. We'll get to it. So in terms of the products that they ended up selling, you know, like the supplements or what have you, Alex likes to pretend that they have like info wars labs and you're like, yes, that's right. They're developing all these products because it gives like more intimate a connection with the product itself.

It feels like it's something that's more personal. But unfortunately, that's all a lie. Of course. Mr. Jones selected the products that he intended to sell online, correct? Correct. And were you, was it your understanding that Mr. Jones was personally involved in negotiating the purchase of those products from third party suppliers? I guess so.

I'm not sure. I know I was not involved in that. Something that Anthony Gutiardie was involved in? Possibly, yes. I'm not aware of free speech systems ever investing any money in research and development of the supplements that it sold, correct? I'm not aware of any of that. Why would they?

It's been your understanding as the director of business operations that Mr. Jones and free speech systems purchases dietary supplements from third party suppliers and then brands them as a Alice Jones product, correct? That's my understanding. Yeah. Yeah. That's obviously that's what they did. They just put a different label on shit.

Why in God's name would they also be, listen, we put our labels on everything that and we sell it. But also why not? Sometimes we just do R&D. No, fuck off. You're not a supplement company. You take, take cheap shit, add a mystique to it and pretend that it's magical in some way and then put another fun label on it and boom, totally mark it up.

The markup is Alex holding a picture of it. That's it. That's the whole thing. And saying something like Chaga Mushroom totally really, really salaciously force, adding force to all of it. That's all you need or super blank. Super blank. Yeah.

So one of the other things that Alex likes to pretend is that he's doesn't, he's not that connected to like how the, how his show is moving products. He's just talent. He's just talent. It's just, you know, it's just all he is is on air and look, obviously he's got to be concerned with some of the business side of things, but business, but he is not like doing things in order to like push. That's not his expertise.

No, no, no, no. No. As the Mr. Jones is online store expanded, more and more of your time is spent essentially managing the, the principal revenue generating aspect of Mr. Jones's business, which is the online store, right? Correct. But Mr. Jones was also involved in that operation on a daily basis, correct? Correct.

And you were in touch with him on a daily basis about the store's performance, correct? Correct. In fact, he would call you pretty much every day after his program to discuss the store's performance during the show, right? Yes. Because Mr. Jones during every show would pitch his products and encourage his audience to buy, correct? Yes.

And so he would check with you on the effectiveness of his pitch to his audience, effectiveness measured by the amount of sales that were transacted during the show, right? That's correct. Woo. Wow. Oh, shady. Cynical. Yeah.

He, Alex gets out there, starts screaming about God and all this stuff and then gets off there and is like, Hey, Tim, how'd you do today? Yeah. Excuse me, Pharisees, let's change some money in the church real quick. Come on now. It is a bleak portrait. Yeah. Also, that just sucks.

Every day. That sucks. What? What about it? I mean, that's just, that sucks. That's just a TV show or something like that. That would be the part that sucks the most is like having to give a shit about what the sales were on your thing.

Like, oh, I've ever wanted to do is do the show part. Yeah. It seems like that is part that Alex enjoys though. Maybe he's all about the, the bucks. He's all about the bucks. Yeah. You know, one of the things that you get looking at this too is that it's kind of a bummer to recognize that info wars is like a business business.

Yeah. You know, like there is that mystique that Alex has about himself where it's just a fly by the seat of our pants. Totally. Totally. We know where tomorrow's money is coming from. Yeah, exactly. He's calling his business guy every day being like, Hey, did my ads work today?

Totally. Hey, did it work? That sucks. Did I scare the people enough to buy my stuff? That sucks. That's such a bummer. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm so glad we don't sell shit. We're so. Yeah. David Jones, Alex's dad and his deposition mentioned how whenever they see big spikes in traffic, they try to replicate what that was. As you would. And so this is a brought up and to see if Tim is in on this, this sort of game. I'll represent to you that Mr. Jones testified, David Jones testified in substance that if

there was a day or time when there was a spike in activity that folks who tried to determine what might have caused that and then replicate it. Are you familiar with that concept? No, I don't recall. I never read or watched David Jones's thing, but that makes sense in business. If something is working to keep doing it. Yeah, man. That's something that Mr. Jones is different to do when it came to, you know, maximizing

his own profitable, correct? Objection. I don't know what he's thinking, but you know, like I said, I would provide him the information. What he does on a show is his thing. I never talked to him about what he does on the show or anything, but if he requested the information, I would give it to him and he did what he, what he does. But you yourself were personally. You were responsible just as Mr. Jones was, perhaps less so, but responsible for maximizing

the store's performance, right? I mean, to what I could do on my side, yes. And one of the things that you could do was when there was a spike in revenue on a particular day, was trying to assess what may have caused it so that you could replicate it, right? Objection. No, I never, if there was a spike in sales during his show, I would tell him whatever you did worked because the sales increased. But I never, I never looked at a show.

I mean, I can't listen to his show. It's too much for me. It's very distracting while I was working. I never, I have no idea what he was doing on a show. But you would say to him, look, whatever you did, it worked. Yes, that is correct. Yeah. Alex's show is too much for him.

That is some psychopath shit right there. It really is. That is some really terrifying, like, oh, yeah. No, I get that he slaughters young boys, but I don't, just because I don't watch it. Just because I work there doesn't mean that I care. Right. All I'm concerned with is selling ads for the slaughter. Yeah, exactly.

All I do is I sell ads that say, if you want to be a part of the slaughter, then join the slaughter. Right, right. That's all I do. I'm a good guy. I'm a good guy. Put my head down, put my hard hat on, and then I go home after work is over. Obviously, not necessarily as extreme as slaughter.

No, of course. It is a real. It's not far enough off, honestly. It really is just the head in the sand kind of thing. And that to me is bleak. There is a real cynical approach to ethics. That's the type of shit that I got from the second clip of it's like this dude knows what he's doing and is choosing like, fuck it.

I don't care. Yeah. Consider. He's been around for a decade. I have so long. He's the seventh employee Alex ever brought on and he was there for a decade. Wow. Alex just did all this shit that he's like, I don't fucking want to watch this nonsense

every day. I choose to go to work. Uh-huh. Yep. Alex is out there helping storm the capital. Totally. He's just like, totally. Hey, listen, I'm just going to go to work.

Oh, look at Alex. Alex is in the capital building. That's interesting. So that it seems like we've got a spike in sales while Alex is in the fucking capital building. Hey, Alex's lawyer in court is saying that Sandy Hook families are exaggerating their grief. Oh boy.

Sell some ads. Fucking insane. Yeah. And we'll get more into this a little bit later too. Oh boy. Put a pin in that. You know what's what's crazy about it to me is like they they really do. Evaluate Alex's show like any ad campaign would be evaluated.

You know, like, oh, if we hired John Ham for this car commercial, does John Ham sell more cars than if we hired Sam Jackson, you know, like that kind of thing. Only it's Alex's entire show. The show itself is the ad for the shit. Right. You know, and I mean, like as this goes on, they could talk about being able to have like hour by hour breakdowns of like when more traffic was going to the store. There's so much more awareness of like what they're doing from a business standpoint than

you'd ever get from any interviewer deposition with Alex or corporate representatives. Now we never use Google Analytics. I mean, that's right. You know, it's stupid. Honestly, this peak into that is like, I mean, it's it's it's cynical. It's it's it. I I am remit. I won't say that like he's worse than people who do shit.

Sure. Or who do bad. He didn't dance on a Black Lives Matter flag on fire. You know, right? Yeah. There's blame to go both ways. Sure. But this is someone who knows better.

Oh, yeah. And he's not a true believer. Yeah. And that to me is scarier a little bit. Totally. Absolutely. It's it seems extreme to be like, oh, this person watches the kid slaughter. But we're talking about somebody who lost a lawsuit for $1.5 billion fucking dollars

for truly awful behavior. And he was like, hey, man, I just go to work. Yeah, you know, I was I was there selling ads the entire time Alex was defaming these families and now that he's lost $1.5 billion, I still work for him and I don't really care that much. Yeah. I'm willing to say in a deposition, I don't listen to his show. It's stupid.

I mean, on the stand at the Nuremberg Trial, his defense is not going to go well. True. But that's the other thing. And like, we'll get more into this later in the deposition. But Tim knows that the stuff Alex is saying is bullshit. He knows. Totally. He knows that like the ads.

I can't watch a show. The ads that are being sold are based on tricking people with bullshit with stuff that he knows is bullshit. Yeah, 100%. And that sucks. Anyway, Tim would tell Alex about the traffic that came to the website and then Alex decides what to do about it. I would tell him if there's, you know, it's like I just said, the more people that are

in town square, the more people that are going into the shops. So just by default, the more people going to the news website, I mean, you're going to pick up traffic coming over to the store because we had banner ads running. Right. And not only that, but during the show, he's telling his audience to go to the store. Right? Yes. Right.

And now how to get those audience members to infowars.com? That was Mr. Jones's purview, right? Yes. And he would decide what he wanted to talk about in order to generate audience, correct? Correct. But as you testified, he was aware and you would inform him that the more people that come there to the show, the more people that are coming to the store. Right?

Yes. And showing you exhibit number 27, I got an email before you, Mr. Fruget from Chris Ellison to you dated March 11th, 2016. Yes. Okay. Good. And who's Chris Ellison? Chris Ellison was the e-commerce manager for a certain period of time.

You worked under you? Yes. He reported to me. And in this email, and by the way, your email is just Tim at infowars.com, or at least it was. It was, yes. And Chris is still employed there? No.

No. Chris is gone for quite a while now. But he is sending you an email with the subject line, largest traffic spike error, correct? Oh, that's not good. Yes. Oh, boy. And he says, hey, Tim, yesterday we saw the largest traffic spike error. And he's sending us on March 11th, 2016.

So fair to say, referring to March 10th, 2016, right? Yes. Things in perspective, we hit 26,858 sessions on the 29th of February. By far a big number. Yesterday we capped out at 118,712. So we got a giant spike here. Yeah. A spike that has ever been recorded, according to this email.

Yeah. And we already also have an understanding that, you know, Tim would report these things to Alex. Yeah. So you should be aware of this and seems to not really be, I don't know. I never use Google. This is in your email. I've never even heard about this stuff.

Oh, did we do better that day? That seems crazy. So we get a little bit more into the email here. But anyway, with respect to this largest spike ever, Mr. Allison provides you with some comparables. And he says, check in the news feeds. I didn't notice anything that could account for that spike. I'll keep it close on. Exactly.

Do you see that? Yes. And so this is an example of what we were talking about earlier, where there's a spike in activity in an effort to determine what in the news could have accounted for that, right? Objection. Yes and no. So if there was a big news day, if there was a big story for whatever that CNN, Fox, Drudge, everybody was covering, it would send more traffic to infowars.com, which in turn would send more traffic to infowars.store.

So there might be a huge news day that Mr. Jones isn't driving from his own program, but it results in additional traffic to the infowars.com website and consequently the store. Yes. I mean, yes, correct. So Tim tries to play some little what if games. Yeah. A little bit about, you know, sometimes it's just, it's bad traffic though. Right. You're not getting increased sales and stuff.

Maybe, maybe it's a DDoS attack. Right. Maybe who knows? Right. You can't know anything based on these traffic. Right. So here is where he tries to pull some of that. Okay.

The largest traffic spike ever, that's something you discussed with Mr. Jones during your daily fall, right? Well, if I, yes, and typical thing I would tell him, hey, largest spike ever. I don't remember this, but if I'm looking at this and I'm putting myself back in 2016, he's telling me that there was a large, largest spike ever that didn't contribute to sales. And if you scroll down and look at that map, the screenshot he sent, that would tell me that we were being attacked on the store. Because that happened all the time where whatever players, whoever players would send bots and all kinds of stuff to try and spike the traffic up on the store to overrun the servers to bring the store down. That happened all the time. So if I am looking at this today and putting myself in my shoes from 2016, I would say that's the point that is being, is trying to be made is, hey, something weird happened. This could be an attack.

If you change if you knew that on March 10th, 2016, the Republican presidential debate was held. Yeah, that would change my view. I would say we got a ton of traffic. That would do it. Yes. Okay. Yeah, but I guess I guess that's what it was. I guess it was a Republican debate and we did a ton of coverage of that and it drove a bunch of traffic.

This big old spike. How did that person not see that in the news? I don't know. What was in the news that would have contributed to whoever sending this email is maybe incompetent. I mean, here's the thing that I feel like Tim does not understand. All right. If you're going to try and avoid the question in the positive of like, I know what he covered and therefore we adjusted things accordingly. Right.

That is essentially a true, false statement. If you also say we know when it's false, that means you know when it's true. So if you say, oh, well, we figured out when it wasn't a DDoS attack means you know when it was something else. Conceivably, you're like, maybe you don't remember this because it was years in the past, but at that moment you were digging into this. Exactly. And trying to understand the traffic. Right. You explaining it away as a DDoS attack.

It reveals, you know, investigation. Exactly. Yes. And that that is that is heavily implied there. Yeah. But yeah, it wasn't wasn't a DDoS attack. No, that was just traffic. Yeah.

So in 2016, how much do you think Infowars was making per week bringing in? Oh my God. I don't want to know. So I mean, I did hear the one number they tossed out was like almost half a billion dollars one year. Right. So you got to figure that puts yet what 100,000 a week. Well, here's where we were. And again, you have transactions, you have, for me, weekly revenue numbers.

Right. You agree with me that two months later in the weekly average appears to be hovering around a million bucks. Oh, shit. It wasn't. No, a million. Fuck. The presidential thing. My math is terrible.

And the reason you're saying that is because you believe that the existence of the presidential race contributed to an increase in your weekly revenue? Well, I mean, everyone was it's the presidential cycle. I would assume that's what it is. I couldn't tell you definitively, but that's what makes sense to me. Okay. But in fact, in 2017, didn't, which was a non presidential year, didn't infowars store.com exceed its weekly average revenue over 2016? I don't recall. I mean, if you have something to show me, but I don't remember.

Fair enough. Wait for it. Wait for it. There's a cameo coming. Oh, I want to go back to free speech systems the early days. Love that shot at the outset about revenue streams. Let's kind of ballpark is being, you know, prior to the move to Alvin. Okay.

Okay. Um. I'm free speech systems and free speech systems is me. So the corporate representative of either of those companies absolutely should prepare for their deposition via extensive populations to just fill in all the gaps. We knew that. That's right. And she didn't talk to him or preparation for her death. Yes.

All right. I apologize. They haven't responded to something else. Oh my God. Oh my God. You may want to mute. Oh my God. I had for the corporate corner.

Mr. Patis attorney. No. Patis is logged on. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yes. No.

Patis is logged on. So his only appearance at all in this deposition is as somebody who's accidentally screaming to drive it to a grinding halt. Oh my God. Love it. So it's as good a time as any to bring up that Norm lost his ability to practice law for six months. Six months. Yeah. Yeah.

And he stole your joke. Yeah. Yeah. I mean it's tough. It's tough for him to call us bottom feeders if you're stealing our bits man. That's that's kind of harsh. Yeah. He tweeted something about a great job.

That's pretty pretty shitty. I mean it's funny because the number of people he is fooling is precisely zero. You know like zero people were like oh see he's got a cool enough sense of humor that he can expand. This guy gets it. Nope. No. No. You were trying buddy.

You were trying to deflect and you lose. Oh no. Norm. Oh Norm that's sadder than if you just didn't say anything. Sure. Yeah. But I love this kind of thing with Norm where he's like just the guy who fumbles onto the scene. Totally.

Totally. And showing up at the deposition like this was just it was it was delightful because also you can see Fruget laughing. Yeah. Of course. Tim doesn't take Norm seriously. No. No.

Norm is the the hyper chicken lawyer for Futurama. He's very much like I mean there is the point where in Futurama there's the point where the chicken lawyer is talking to to fry and then it the reveal is the lawyer himself was in prison the entire time and it's like that's Norm. 100% Norm. He's in the he's in prison giving you legal advice and also like hey can you help me get out of here. I need to post bail.

Right. But also like here presumably there's billable hours going on. He's trying to double dip watching two things at once. I mean the funniest part though the funniest part what elevates it is that the audio is of somebody saying that the corporate representative should be prepared. I believe it's the judge in the Texas case. Yeah. Yeah.

The executive should be prepared is absolutely the best at of course that's what should be in there. Man. Beautiful. It's and there's also an added comedy that he seems to not be able to mute it right away can't figure it out. Can't do it. But yeah the the stuff that was going on before that they had a million in sales a week.

Right. Which Tim is trying to attribute to the you know the the election year. Right. And then it went up in 2017 which kind of ruins that. Oh that's not good. But one of the things that's fascinating is all of these people at Info Wars every single one of them to a person engages in improvisational explanations. Yeah I know.

They're presented with a set of facts and they're like well here's why. I'm telling you a full story. The bottom falls out. It happens to every single one of these people. I don't understand. See I mean what I wrote down is like you can you should be able to hear at this point like oh this is a question you know the answer to and you are asking it to me. I would like you to just tell me the answer and then I'll agree with what you say because

what you're going to say is true. And if I if I'm allowed to talk I'm going to make up some bullshit. That's just who I am. Tim is a little bit more of a serious person it seems but he still has that that trait that habit. It's very weird. It's it's osmosis. You spend enough time at the Info Wars office.

You're going to make up reasons for anything. Yeah. So we talked about this tiny bit at the beginning of the notion of Alex doing pay for play kind of stuff. And so this comes back up in addition to donations. Mr. Jones would sell advertising on his show and on his website. Correct. Correct.

Which he continues to do. Correct. Sell advertising. Sorry. Can you repeat the question? Sorry. He continues to sell advertising on his show on his website. Correct.

Yes. He would charge guests to come who wanted to come on the show. Right. That. That is not so black and white. So he would charge. Sounds like it is. To mention their product and stuff on the air.

Right. I can't remember him charging a guest to come on the air. Show you exhibit 16. Come. Just beautiful. Yeah. Just when there's let me show you this. Just set them up and knock them down.

It never it never stops. It doesn't. It's just there. Yeah. That was information that Tim is volunteering. They is going to be contradicted by the next exhibit. Of course. Of course.

Which he didn't need to say. He didn't need to say I've never been aware of Alex. Asking for money to have people appear on the show. Now saying that he charges to mention a product. That's what we call an ad. Yeah. So that is one thing. Yeah.

It's another. It's not so black and white to call it an ad. It's fine to take ads. It's fine to do that. It's fine to have you know brokered content that's kind of revealed as such. Sure. It is not ethical to have people come on who are paying to

have an interview with you as if it's a normal interview. Yeah. That is promoting their product. Yeah. That is kind of messed up. And here's an email of Tim trying to sell exactly. Of course. See.

Exhibit 16. I pulled up for you. An email from you to an individual named Cole on wire dated July 29th 2014. Yes. All right. Now there's an email chain here. I'm going to scroll down for you.

But at least in this first part from this is fair to say that you are informing Mr. McGuire that you will put him in touch with Niko Kosta to arrange the logistics for somebody to appear on Mr. Jones's show. Right. That's correct. You're down in the chain. It's clear that the individual who is to appear on the show is

Bill. Right. Yeah. You know who Bill is. Someone with Bonner and partners dot com. Okay. All right. And now I want to go down further in the chain to an email you

sent the day before to Cole. And in this email you say I just spoke with Alex and he likes Bill's work a lot. He said he'd do a 20 to 30 minute interview with him next week to help push the book sales. You understand that to be push the sales of a book that Bill wrote. Right. That's correct.

Meaning that Bill comes on the show. They talk about the book. Alex's audience will buy the book. Yes. And then you say he usually charges at least 15 to $20,000 for this type of interview. Because he likes that. Damn.

Right. Yes. So it's fair to say that at least at this time in 2014 if an individual wanted to come on to promote something that they had Mr. Jones would charge them between 15 and $20,000. That he usually charges. I mean that's if I am putting myself back in 2014. Sell me on this.

Something Alex asked me to write. Sell me on this one. To basically let him know the value of him coming on to the show. Sure. Yeah. Good. Good. Good save.

Solid work Tim. Yeah. Yeah. Buy that one. This is just trying to make sure he appreciates. Exactly. That was one of the work. You know I almost respect him for trying.

Alex normally charges 15 to $20,000 for this because he likes you. He's going to do this as a freebie. I know. It's like what? Yeah. All right. Oh man. Based on everything I know about it for us.

That sounds like something that's just trying to make this guy appreciate and feel special. Exactly. That is coming out the show. That is that is that is just as psycho as Daria being like well don't they feel nice about hearing that their kids might still be alive. Just as psycho crazy.

Got to push back. I think that Daria is way more. That instance is way more. Honestly. That's much more hurtful. When I said it out loud I realized that I had gone farther. Disconnected. It's insane.

They're both disconnected from like what's what normal people would see. That's what I'm going for. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. This introduces like a really fucked up kind of thing into Alex's

world because if you know that this is something that he does then you can't really be sure that any of the interviews that he does ever how much of it is stuff that he actually believes in how much of it is stuff that he would promote just of his own accord. Yeah. And how much of it is he getting paid 20 grand to just have a little conversation with this person. It's free money on the table.

Yeah. And who's getting suckered. You the listener. It goes it goes from being like a rush Limbaugh clone show to being more like an infomercial at 2 a.m. trying to sell you knives except for the people selling you knives are like well one if you don't get this knife everyone you know is going to die. And two this person selling knives is maybe the greatest knife salesman

that's ever existed. They're their best knives you know. But those knife infomercials are fun. Exactly. They're cutting books and stuff. If you ruined it with Alex. Yeah. I really think that this is something that is it should be a big

problem for Alex's listeners even if they are people who are like staunch believers in this stuff because introducing this kind of doubt into the things that you are seeing on his show. It should really make you question stuff even if only twice in the course of his career people actually paid him $20,000. Yeah. It still is it tarnishes pretty much every interview. You can never be sure that it is above board and pure.

No your your currency in a cult is infallible trust. You know like we will do anything that this person says because we completely trust them. And this should be a tiny doubt should be the end for you. You know. You can't be in a cult if you're not 100% in. Yeah. There should be an erosion of trust that comes from this.

Yeah. Probably won't probably not. Wait. Tim had a swing there which was admirable. And then he comes up with another swing. So essentially what you're doing here is Mr. Bonner wants to come on the show to discuss the book that he's written and you are offering him a proposal an advertising proposal

pursuant to which free speech systems will receive $46,550 for different ad placements related to the book. Right. Here so. Yes. Okay. And you tell him that ordinarily Alex we charge $15,000 to $20,000 just for the interview itself separate apart from the ad placements.

Right. Right. And you would have told him that if that wasn't true would you? Well. Where are we going here buddy? That's probably the number that Alex gave me. But that's a typical sales pitch of hey we're going to give you a value of this to come on the show if you do this.

That's the way I'm reading it. I honestly don't remember this because it was so long ago. I'm just trying to. And don't ask me how my first wife died. You know. But yeah. I mean I obviously wrote it there and usually charges 15 to 20. It's giving an incentive for him to buy the ad package for $49,000.

In this case you're basically saying look we're going to forego that 15 to 20 K but ask you to purchase ads on our website and also that Alex will read live for 46 plus thousand dollars. Right. That's what it reads. Yes. Just trying to upsell man. Yeah.

Wild. Just wild. Listen. Okay. I get what you're saying. I get what you're saying. It's not like the warranty package is what drives us man. We'll give you a free warranty.

That's a sweet in the pot. You know. No big deal. This is really about giving you value. That's what it's about. We'll detail. We'll detail man. Yeah.

Ironically Bill Bonner is somebody who like Alex should have on. He shouldn't need to extort him. He's like a guy who wrote for Lou Rockwell. He's like a libertarian type conservative finance. I mean if you can afford for a book if you can afford a budget of 60 K in advertising that book is probably going to that book better be doing well. No. No.

No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.

No. No. No. No. No. No. He didn't give us either though. No.

Absolutely not. It's closer than his first explanation I think to being believable. I mean I would buy that he's that they you open with a 15 to 20 and then somebody goes like how about ten and they'll be like that's the most money we've ever accepted before we'll take it. I think I I I think that he probably has a situation where he charges this for people to come on. Yeah.

He uses like an offer to try and upsell. Yeah. If possible. Totally. So I think I think that these are both probably true. There's like a pay to play thing. Yeah. And then also it is used to induce people into these larger packages of events.

But even so it is still like the same issue remains. Total. All of it. But it and that's almost even more damning again because that's that's business shit. You know. That's people who have a business plan who act in terms of what we do to maximize profit. Which is exactly the opposite of the way Alex likes to present himself. Yes.

Which is a problem. You betcha. So Alex has taken this money conceivably any time he's promoted something. Sounds about right. But he's never told the audience that he does. Are you aware of Alex ever telling his audience that a guest he had on who he was promoting had paid him to call him? No.

No. Nor did Alex ever tell his audience as far as you know that content he was promoting like for example a book had been purchased for in this case $36,000 plus thousand dollars. Sorry can you repeat that? Yeah. You're not aware of Alex ever informing his audience that books he was promoting on his website like for example this book by Mr. Bonner he was promoting as a result of being paid $46,000 plus thousand dollars to do so.

Not that I recall. Well why would you? I mean I keep this is something that's come up over and over and over again like in these depositions in my head I'm always like his next question is going to be like you realize that's bad right? That doesn't happen. Exactly. But in my head it's like okay you you just said the things that you said right you realize

those are bad things. You know like a deposition isn't a place to scold. I know. I know. It's not scolding. It's incredulity. Yeah are you aware that's shady as hell? You know children would be disappointed in you right?

You understand this. I think that there are you know with one of the things that's strange about Alex's show is that there are instances of times where you can kind of tell that something is brokered programming. Yeah. But the line is gray a lot of the time. It is. And that even for me somebody who's watching with a critical eye and looking looking into

the stuff like sometimes it is difficult to tell and that introduction of this into the possibility the range of possibilities. Yeah. It makes me think whenever it's gray it's probably paid. Yeah totally. And that's not good. I mean it's too to a weird level it's it's like he's almost scamming scammers with this scam.

Oh he's scamming the scammer getting them and then scamming his audience like he's taking it from the top and the bottom. Sure. Well it certainly tends to make sense of why there are certain people who show up for a little while and then aren't figures and then are never seen again. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

They purchased a package. Totally. And their package is good for three months. Totally. Or something like why Vox Day was a big figure for a while and then hasn't I don't know where he is. I found out that the advertising budget was too much for not enough return. Yeah.

It's a scam. Right. Mike Cernovich was on quite a bit pretty regularly and never seen him again. And then was gone for a while. I don't know if that's you know necessarily what's going on but I wouldn't be too surprised. Well I mean it's it's a theory. It's expensive. True.

True. So speaking of things that are expensive buying Alex's products not expensive Alex buying his products. Yes. The product line that Alex launched called Emeryx Essentials comes up and this of course is like the deodorant and body wash and stuff. Right. Right.

He's trying to turn herbal essences for men. He's trying to turn this into a like hey you're going to buy this stuff anyway buy it for me. Might as well. Yeah. That kind of it didn't work. They made a lot of money initially and then people just were not interested. Right.

In this next clip we learn a little bit about the markup on Emeryx Essentials. And at the bottom he indicates that the total gross revenue over that two week period is four hundred ninety six thousand six hundred forty dollars and eighty six cents right. It appears so yes. That's the half a million he was referencing in his email yeah. Makes sense yes. And the cost of that of those products to free speed systems was one hundred and four thousand six hundred ninety nine dollars according to Mr. Allison right.

Appears so yes. For a profit in that two week period of three hundred fifty nine thousand and ninety eight dollars right. Appears so yes. Okay. So that's a four hundred percent profit on that particular line over those two weeks right. I mean the numbers are there.

It appears that I'm not sure about four hundred percent I can't do that map but that profit appears there. It looks right. That's pretty damn good. That's very good. So an Alex does like a sixty percent off so he's still like marked up at least like hundred fifty percent. Yeah totally.

Absolutely. Yeah he's a man. That's good. If you can get it. Oh boy. Yeah. I mean the the markup on hearing aids for the longest time was anywhere between two and a half to three and a half times you know.

And that made sense for a lot of businesses because they're all brick and mortars you know like it's all overhead and shit and you got to do the whole thing. That's what the business had to do to survive you know. It was the it was the companies making the cartel level money. Sure. You know. But I also would guess that in this instance some higher markup makes sense because the purchases are lesser or they're scarcer.

Oh no. You know what I mean. Yeah totally. It's a one time purchase or like maybe once every few years or whatever. So I feel like a markup on that in order for these businesses to even be able to to survive. That makes sense. Right. Whereas like you have auto ship and like routine purchases.

Right. So the level of a markup for something that you're going to be buying more and more and more like regularly. Right. That's. Let me let me try and put it to you this way. That markup was there because the total profit on each one of those was like 10 percent. You know like of the total amount anybody spent you get a little bit as your profit.

Not 400 fucking percent. Yeah. Of the actual sale. That's that's price gouging. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. That's fevery.

It feels that way. And it feels very out of sync with the way that Alex describes. Oh yeah. I'm taking a loss on this. I'm giving it all to you. How is that possible. I mean I'm taking a loss on 400 percent profit. I'm only getting 300 percent this time.

Cool. Absurd. So Tim was involved in ad sales for a little while. Yeah. And or and you know for a bit he hated it though. Mm hmm. Fucking hated it. And good for him.

And that is not especially at Info Wars probably not the most pleasant terrible because you end up like selling ads for unscrupulous businesses. You remember that email we were discussing earlier where you were pitching a Mr. Harvey excuse me. This is a 15. Do you have that you know from the answer. Yes. If you go down to the.

His email string on July 8th 2014. I'm sorry. He introduces himself. He sends in a even though he's the co-founder of self lender a website that helps U.S. consumers build credit by creating a small amount of debt and then paying it off. We believe that your U.S. consumers would be a great fit for our for target demographic. Right. Yes.

And so what Mr. Harvey was proposing to do and the proposal that you offered him would be to have this company that encourages customers to go into debt to advertise to your audience. Right. Up here. So yes. So I looked into it a tiny bit and self lender itself doesn't seem like it's one of the most shady businesses in the world. Like I think that there are instances where this can be something like like a reverse loan

can be something that is helpful for people to build credit. But it also is not necessarily always the best thing to do not necessarily always safe for folks. And it's not something that I feel like Alex's audience. It doesn't seem like a great thing to offer any any finance any any finance thing. If they give you a good offer. All right. That means that you have to adhere to every say like their their offers are devil like

you know like you follow the contract all the way down perfectly and it works out. You fuck up one time there. You're theirs. You know like though. Oh I'm sorry. The fee is seven million dollars and also you work for us now. And if there's a good deal then it's a great deal for them. Oh yeah.

Oh yeah. Because it's they're not doing this out of a desire to get you out of debt. Yeah. Or get you out of bad credit. That's not what their business model is. The goal isn't like the whole world has good credit at the end of their business. Right. Check cash in places don't want to cash checks for people.

No. They don't love cashing checks. So I mean this is something that I find to be a little bit as an advertising thing. Granted I think like maybe gambling would be worse. Right. I mean it's a step above loan shark. It's a step above being like hey today we have Timmy the bookie over here and he's going to advertise on betting a lot of money on a losing team so he can break your kneecaps

later. In terms of things that Alex has promoted though like maybe it's not the worst. I mean yes there have been ads on his show for cults. I mean there have been ads for where to hide your guns. I suppose. Yeah. And where not to hide your guns. Where not to hide your guns.

So one of the vibes that you get is that Tim does not care. It's very he's not an info warrior. He is not interested in the info war and maybe doesn't even actually like Alex that much. Is it fair to say that you're aware of what Mr. Jones was describing on his show or what was published on info wars dot com website was through your conversations with Mr. Jones. No. No.

No I didn't talk to Alex about news or his show. That wasn't. I didn't care about that. My that wasn't my job. You know that day to day you had no idea what Mr. Jones was talking about on his show. That's correct. I mean some days yes maybe but most days I made it a point not to listen to his show because it was too distracting.

The website. Did you read the website? Yeah. I'd browse. What was that? Every day. I don't know about every day but most days yes. Yeah.

He seems like a guy who wandered in one day and just stuck around. Yeah. I'm not really. I didn't know. He does a show. Alex is on his show yelling about how he's in a war against the fucking devil and stoking hatred against marginalized and vulnerable populations constantly all day fuck you with your I don't watch his show.

Check the site out sometimes. Sometimes I'll look at it. God what a just a weasel. That is the worst. Yeah. That is the worst. Oh my God. So this is kind of funny.

Okay. Maddy asks why he doesn't watch Alex's show. How is the show so distracting that you wouldn't listen to it? Do I really have to answer that question? For me you do. Alex's voice can get to me and I don't necessarily agree with a lot of what he says. Oh my God. I don't want to hear it.

I don't want to hear it. Yeah. I don't want to hear his show. His voice is annoying and I don't agree with the stuff he says. Oh my God. Yeah. That is that is fucked. That is dark.

It's dark. Yeah. That's some real worm shit. Well the paycheck was good. That's that's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. That's that's. No I know and that's why I have this feeling that like I think he's maybe he knows better.

Oh yeah. Other people are true believers or they don't know any better. He knows better. Money drives people crazy. He knows better. Money drives people crazy. Yeah. Wanting money is nuts.

You know like I mean it's I have no sympathy. I'm just remarking on the phenomena that money can itself be a form of wage slavery. You know like he can't not be in that money making range. You know it's so central to his identity. I don't know about that. Maybe it is. Maybe it's not. I don't know much about him outside of the things that I've gleaned from hearing

about him over the course of the time doing the show and this deposition but like I have to assume that if you don't like the sound of this person's voice you seem to not like him that much as a person. You don't like his show. You think the things that he covers you disagree with. Uh huh. If you've been there for a decade it's money. Yeah.

There's no other reason to have stayed there. You're making more money than you would elsewhere. Yeah. Like you make peace with the fact that you're basically your position is facilitating somebody to be a demagogue screaming shit you don't agree with. I mean it's unfortunate that this is the word that needs to be used here but he is a fucking runfield. The irony.

Oh no. Yeah. Yeah. It's a runfield. I don't know how else to describe it. So the question comes up about whether or not Tim had any feelings about Sandy Hook being fake. Yeah.

CJ is sending you an attachment with the Daily Show Log for Friday March 14th, right? Yes. 2014. Correct. And you'll see that on that particular show Wolfgang Halwig joined Alex to quote examine the host of peculiarities surrounding the Sandy Hook school shooting, right? Yes. Now I think that you personally never had any doubt that 26 people including 20 children

and six educators were murdered at Sandy Hook on December 14th, 2012. Correct. Never a doubt in my mind. And you never suspected that the United States government was somehow involved in staging or faking that event in any way, correct? That's correct. Never had a doubt and also was fine taking money and working for a guy who was demonizing the parents of those murdered children that I was very aware and convinced and certain

actually were murdered. This is the type of fucking like this is the interviews in a crime documentary about the mafia where they black out the guy you can't see his face and he's just like, yeah, we murdered people left and right. You know, you know, you told you get told to murder a guy, you go murder him and then you go home to your wife. Yeah. And you're like, that's that's not okay, man.

You're told to run the online store for a guy who's being a real piece of shit. Yeah. There you do it. Oh, sure. Well, I mean, I didn't I didn't like murdering that guy. It's not my idea, you know, but I was told to do it. I didn't like harassing those families for, you know, decades, but you know, you do what you told.

Yeah. And you, you know, you just look the other way, look the other way, man. That's bananas. I have not been able to do that. No, that's why we're unsuccessful though. Well, I mean, we're, yeah, yeah, we're not, we're not successful on that level. Right. Right.

Right. Right. Yeah. And it's, it's success isn't the word I meant. It's dark. Yes. Yeah. And you've been involved in this company to the point where you're the business director.

Yeah. And you've been there. You're the seventh person Alex has hired, probably, maybe one or two of those people are still around at this point in 2014 or whatever. And you're just like, Hey, this sucks. That shooting did happen. Alex is saying all this crazy nonsense. Oh, well, I don't care.

How can it not be a big problem for you? That's the thing. I can understand everybody else because I understand believers at least, you know, I get believed. Yes. Yes. I understand that. If you truly believe then it is not an ethical problem for you to be a part of this system

because you do not believe it is unethical. Exactly. But for this, this, I don't understand. I don't understand just being like, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I know what I'm doing is wrong. But 200,000 dollars. Well, here's the disconnect. He probably doesn't think that what he's doing is wrong. Well, I mean, he believes that he is a morally neutral piece within an immoral system or something.

Sure. Like what Alex is doing is wrong. What I'm doing is just money, man. And that sucks. For sure. Now I agree. You know, you didn't care for what Alex was doing on air. That's for sure.

Did you develop an understanding though, just through whatever you were able to contact with that over time, Mr. Jones was featuring the Sandy Hook shooting on his show? No, I don't recall that. I know that I personally thought it was not right for him to do it. But no, again, I never listened to the show and I didn't really care what he did on the air. I didn't know. I wasn't aware.

I didn't care. But also I thought what he was doing was bad. It was wrong of him to do that. Yeah. Weird. Yeah. It's really weird, strange. Yep.

Like capturing Hitler's housekeeper being like, Hey, you know what? I listen. I don't know what he was doing out there. Had a lot of dust. He is to do. Fucking. I mean, his dishes hideous. That's all I know about the guy.

And you know, the other thing that kind of stands out is that like there were people who had a problem with this and there is demonstrable evidence that they said something about it. Yeah. People like Paul Joseph Watson. Yep. Rob Jacobson. There's both of them.

There are confirmable instances of them having a problem with this coverage and speaking up. Yep. Tim Friget is somebody who is claiming that he had like, I didn't believe this stuff. But he didn't care. Nope. He didn't care. Did not give a shit.

Yeah. Yeah. That is some that is some real fucked up shit right there. Yeah. Man. And so he's asked why he had a problem with what Alex was doing and he struggles to answer that. I don't find this compelling.

Just by virtue of your funding of free speech systems in your general awareness of what may have been happening, you are aware of force that Mr. Jones was discussing Sandy Hook on his program and publishing articles about it on the website and denying that it occurred. Right. Objection. I don't know about all the details, but I know he was talking about it. You understand why we're here.

But I mean, what did you consider was wrong about the way he was talking about it? Well, I mean, I just said something you don't, you don't talk about that. It's that's what you got. It's just, no, it's not something about the way he was talking about it though, correct? Because there's nothing wrong with just talking about a national tragedy, objection. I don't know what he feels or thinks, but me personally, you know, it was a tragedy. And it's not something that you cover it the day when it's in the main news and then you go on.

That's what I personally would have done. And you know, I just, yeah, but instead you became aware that Mr. Jones talked about it for years and at least generally you were aware that he had denied it that occurred. Generally I mean, I don't recall specifically, but most likely, yes. Okay. I find that to be another improvised excuse type answer. Yeah. Like you can't even articulate why the thing is a problem for you, which leads me to believe

that he doesn't care. Yeah. It's not really that, you know, actually you really have a problem with what Alex was saying, but you know you're supposed to. Yeah. No, that's him being like, listen, I wouldn't have done it that way, but you know, people do things. Mm-hmm.

That's it. That's your response. You're insane. There should be things that you go, this cannot, this is irreconcilable between you and I. And I am a fundamental part of this operation. This workplace, this show existing. I am critical to it happening and I don't give a shit about the effect that it has. That's that's even, even under like the most diffuse of responsibilities, it is due to

your actions personally that these people were harmed and to have such a blasé attitude about it is just bananas very bizarre. The answer of like why do you have a problem with this? Oh, it's just not done. It's not how you do things. Right. Please. Please.

First, you must send a letter, all right, and then another letter of introduction through your second. It's not how it's done in polite society. I mean, what are you talking about? It's very strange. And I think that Maddie was trying to hit on something there that would have been another question that Tim wouldn't answer, but this must have to do with how Alex was covering it.

That is the problem. Yeah. What is the how that is the problem? Exactly. If you say that you're uncomfortable with it, what exactly are you talking about? Your answer determines how we go forward. Your answer being that Alex was talking about this obviously isn't a problem because it's a news event.

Exactly. You've covered it. Tim's attempt to be like, well, it's talking about it longer. That unfortunately reveals that if he actually had a problem, then he was aware that Alex kept talking about this. And that kind of undercuts a lot of his pretending to like, I don't even know what Alex is talking about stuff. Knowing when not something means you know when something.

Exactly. Yeah. So Tim disagrees with Alex, maybe like over half the time. You talked earlier about one of the reasons, you know, you didn't listen to the show was initially you testified that I was distracting and asked you why I'd part of the reason because you didn't think in your words necessarily agree with what he said, correct? With I agree with some of what he says, but I don't agree with some of what he says, but absolutely I agree with his right to say what he says.

I just don't agree with them about half the time, maybe more sometimes fucking Voltaire over here. I don't agree with what you say, sir, but I will die for your right to defend it. What a what a thinker. If I were somebody who was listening to Info Wars and believing this stuff, I would ask myself how it is possible that Alex's seventh employee who is his business manager does not believe the shit that he says on it. I mean, if the stuff that he's saying means something and he's on a holy crusade, I would

guess that the person who runs his business would be somebody you'd be somebody who was on board with the themes and the content of his show. I mean, what you really sell is fervents. Yes. That's what you're going for here. Yeah. Ask, ask these questions of yourself. How is the maybe number two, number three person at Info Wars, somebody who doesn't

believe Alex's shit is real or means anything? You know what? I find fascinating that these are public. Like now I need to, I want to know more about the things that I participate in and whether or not there are people in that business who have given depositions that I should know about. You know what I mean? Like every time, every time I buy a fucking tide or something, should I be googling whether

or not a tide executive was shown telling obvious falsehoods about how tide actually kills people? Like what? What don't I know about depositions? Oh no. See what I'm saying? Yeah. This is going to be, you're never going to get out of this hole.

So it's over for me. Deposition hole. So the big article, of course, for Info Wars traffic was the Don Salazar article. The FBI reports no one died in Newtown. Of course. And Tim never read it. Maybe. Okay.

Sure. Sure. I'm going to read the article that was published on InfoWars.com regarding the FBI's reporting of deaths at Sandy Hook. I don't remember. I wouldn't. It's not something I would have read. Not for me.

Not my style. You do have a recollection of something like that being published, right? Well, I mean, yeah, just look at all this stuff. I mean, it's right there in writing. It was obviously done. But you know that that article actually wasn't just any other article. It actually attracted far more traffic than nearly any other article that free-speed systems at InfoWars.com.

Correct? I do not recall being aware of that. No. Well, that's interesting because you're aware of all these spikes in traffic. It sure seems like that's a big one you would be aware of. Yeah. Yeah. It's very noticeable, even just from a, just scanning a graph.

Yeah. I do believe it's very possible he never read that article, and that's because he thinks that everything they talk about is bullshit. Why would you waste your time reading this article? Yeah. It doesn't matter. It's entertainment. It's actively worse for you to know what's going on.

It's a waste. Yeah. It just, it cares. It's just entertaining. So it's not for me. The FBI says no one died at Sandy Hook. Okay. Whatever.

Fine. I never added doubt in my mind that the people died there. I mean, he has a reaction that is a normal for most people reaction upon hearing something. I wouldn't read something like that. Yeah. I'd be like, oh, well fuck off. Get out of here. You know?

That makes sense. I don't fucking work there. Yeah. I'm not the person who's involved with monitoring traffic to the site and the store. And this is one of the biggest traffic articles they ever published. Easiest reason. Easiest reason this is absolute bullshit is because if you're that guy, your job is to find out what it is that caused that huge spike.

And that also includes what is in the article that might have contributed to that. Oh, and because also Tim and Don Salazar emailed about the article and the big spike in traffic. Oh my God. I fucking can't. You know who Don Salazar is? He's one of the writers. Yes. Do you have a relationship there?

Work. I mean, not really. He's production. I'm not. We have a pickleball league. He's a writer, wasn't he? Yes. Do you know that he was the author of the article concerning the FBI's report on death

in San Diego? I was not aware of that. Oh, shut the fuck up. You exited number 23. I can see an email with a 40-day, October 14th, 2014. Yes. This is about three weeks after the email last you were just reviewing regarding that article, right?

Okay. Well, you recall that from the question I just... Yeah. And this is you sending to Don Salazar screenshots of Alexa and Google Analytics staff, correct? It appears so, yes. It'd be fairly unusual for you to send that type of data to a writer, correct? Yeah, it would be upon request. Do you know why he requested it?

My god. No. What? Fucking hell. You send it to the attachment and you look at this. This is data from Alexa, correct? It appears so. And what it shows, Mr. Fruge, is a spike in traffic around September 24th, 25th, and 26th,

correct? Yes. Okay. And it's a noticeable spike from the rest of the line on this graph, correct? Yes, it is. And this is the type of spike you were testifying about earlier, where if there was some sort of spike in traffic, it was something you would make Alexa aware of as well, correct? Eww.

I mean, if it was something I noticed, yes. So this is a thing... What? What the fuck? I can't say yes to this because then, if I did, then I'm making Alex aware of the giant spike in traffic that was due to this Sandy Hook, a Hook's article, and then we already said that we'd try and recreate spikes. Oh, shit.

It's not good. So yes and no, maybe. I don't know if I was aware of it. I did email to Don Salazar this graph that had a big spike in it. Sure, sure. So maybe I was aware of it. I don't know why I emailed him that giant spike. Could have been anything.

It could have been anything. It could have been anything. It's probably his fault. Yeah, probably. I don't think I'm attractive about depositions because I feel like anybody who's ever been in an argument with their partner or significant other or whatever, and they remember something different from you. They're not lying to you, but if you know you remember about it, there's a party that

always wants to be like, you know what? Let's go to the tape. Let's see exactly what happened real quick because I don't think you're going to like the way that it goes. That is this to a T. Let me show you this email. Let me just show you a little bit of the evidence here. And and these kind of sneaky fucks like they never have to be asked follow up questions.

No, it never comes up in like people like Alex and these these folks who works in enforce their lives do not involve follow up questions. They don't involve any difficult positions that they they they avoid it meticulously. Alex, for instance, you know, he'll take calls and say he'll take any critical call and he hangs up on people. He yells over them to be in a position where you're forced to like like answer something like, oh, well, how about how about blank is very fascinating. No, they can't defend their actions under any kind of interrogation.

No. And so they're forced to retreat to improvisational excuse making. And it's very transparent. It's absurd and bizarre. So Tim has said that I would tell Alex about that if I noticed it. And so here's a discussion that they have about how big this spike was. Ask yourself, do you think this guy would notice that? At least just eyeballing this graph.

The graph shows in this particular tab are unique visitors, right? It appears so, yes. At the tab we come up. And the unique visitors goes from... Don't do it. Let's just ballpark it. Don't do it. Between 300 and 500,000, right?

Yes. To about 1.75 million. How could anyone notice that? Correct. Practically the same height on a graph. Oh. This is infowords.com, right? Yes.

You have a Google analytics report, correct? Yes. And that shows the same spike occurring at the same time, right? Correct. But instead of visitors, this particular graph shows page views, right? Yes. And this page views spikes to from what is kind of a rolling average of 1.3 to 1.5 million to just under 3 million, correct?

Yeah, it appears so. Sure. I mean, that seems like a lot. A total page views of during the date range depicted here, which is from mid-September through about mid-October, a total page views of 36.7 million, right? Yes. And 7.9 users, right? Correct.

And new visitors of about 38.4% during that period? Yes. Which in your experience is quite high, correct? I don't remember regularly looking at new visitors versus... Really? Maybe the most important measurement of your continued success? I couldn't tell you one way or the other to be quite honest. Yeah, who knows?

Who knows? I can't imagine a world where you would ask him, like, hey, is this the traffic, the kind of thing you would notice? And he'd say no in any believable way. This is unnoticeable. Right. What? Tripling our total page dates?

Unnoticeable. Was it like unique viewers goes from 300,000 to 1.75 million? Honestly. Honestly. You know what, Chris? Can I call you Chris? I agree that this seems a little bit unreasonable, but I will tell you, I kind of took a nap that day.

It's on me. It's on me. I was asleep. You emailed this to a Don Salazar. I didn't know somebody broke into my email because I was falling asleep and I didn't want Alex to know. He can kind of be an asshole. I don't know if you told that.

I'm sorry. I don't mean to... I don't mean to swear. He hates it when you tell him that his traffic is quadrupled. Yeah. I mean, I didn't want to be a part of that. I didn't want to be a part of that. He could have reacted really negatively towards me.

He wouldn't have said at a boy at all. This is so unbelievable. The notion that he is unaware of this is so laughable. We're in David. What do you fucking do, territory? No, answer the goddamn question. Now, there is a sort of retreat that he could make and that is like, this is traffic to the website.

I'm really more involved with the store, you know, like, granted, I monitor the traffic and stuff and how it relates to the traffic to the store, but, you know, I'm more focused on the store. Unfortunately, that spike also was a scene in sales. Ouch! You'd expect with a spike like this in traffic between September, let's say September 23rd through 26th, that that would result in a corresponding spike in revenue. Real quick, this is a bit of a longer clip and also you probably are noticing now that

there's voices in the background. Wherever Tim is broadcasting from or recording from, there's people talking in the hallway. The cafeteria. Yeah. Wherever, yeah. Sure, great. So that's just there. But yeah, this is a bit of a longer clip just to preserve context.

Correct. I'm judging. I mean, possibly, but we looked at a report earlier that showed a spike and there was no sales. I mean, it was worthless traffic. So it just depends. Let's see if this... That's the tone of voice you want.

Let's see. Let's see. I'm showing you now. I'm attempting to show you now. Exit at 35. Spread sheet in front of you. Okay. You see the title of the spreadsheet, exhibit 35, 3D cart 2010 and 2018 and then a record

number. Yes, barely, but I do see it. All right. Yeah, it's kind of faded. Yeah. But this is a spreadsheet that you would have been familiar with as the director of business operations. If I go to the top of the spreadsheet, you'll see the column headings.

Am I correct that this spreadsheet shows daily sales beginning May 25th, 2010? It appears so. But I will tell you, I would not be familiar with the spreadsheet because I never looked at spreadsheets. 3D cart had a dashboard that I could log into and see and I would look on a... They didn't have spreadsheets there. Couldn't find them. But whether you're seeing it on a dashboard or you're seeing it in the spreadsheet, this

appears to show daily sales as reported by 3D cart, correct? It appears so, yes. Which would have been the infowarshop.com because the infowarsstore.com website was not an operation until mid-2015. That's correct. And so if we scroll down to the period of time you were just looking at where there was a spike in traffic to infowars.com and we scroll down to the same date range of the third week in September of 2014.

See, can you not? That beginning on September 24th. Let's start September 23rd. September 23rd shows daily sales of $56,597, correct? Correct. September 24th shows daily sales of $48,229, correct? Correct. September 25th shows a daily sales of $232,820, correct?

That's correct. Do you find that noticeable? Yes. And then for September 26th, they stayed well above where they were on September 24th, slightly somewhat down from the day earlier but still at $128,854, correct? Correct. And you'd agree with me that that is a two-day spike in revenue, correct? I would say that is...

Yes. The answer is yes. Well, it depends because if they were these, I would agree it is a spike. Yes, I agree with you. Thank you. I mean, you don't typically see a jump from $48,000 to $230, correct? Yes, you do. You might see that, right?

Yes. Something interesting happening, right? If there's a new launch of a new product... Or... That could also be the case but yeah, if something's happening, launch of a new product, absolutely. What you're seeing happening with the data I've just shown you is a spike in website traffic and a spike in revenue corresponding with the publication and distribution that are there I could not tell you that 100% but there's definitely a spike in traffic and definitely

a spike in sales. I cannot tell you that they are correlated at all or happen to... There's no relationship between them but yes, they are there. I could not do that. I would eventually just start narrating my feelings while he's asking the question. I'd be like, oh no, I know where this is going, don't I? Oh God. I mean, what do you want me to answer?

Yes. Okay? Yes. Fine. You know, maybe it's worthless traffic. Let's find out if it's worthless traffic. Oh God. Damn it.

Shit. Why did you do that part? I was going to do the thing and then you were going to leave it there. Yeah. So I think we can see here that there's a real difficult argument that Tim Projet is trying to make about being unaware of this. It seems like he probably was fairly aware of this and is playing dumb and good for him. Pulling teeth with these people, man.

Yeah. It just really is. So there's a lot of this deposition that I have not included because it's a discussion of like the software that was used to run InfoWars shop and InfoWars store. Some discussion of why Alex wanted redundancy in having two stores. Makes sense. Technical support stuff. Yeah.

If one goes down, you've got the other... If you have a considerate DDoS kind of threat, then yeah, of course you want redundancy. That makes sense. Yeah. So there's quite a bit of conversation about that that is interesting, I guess, but not really that important. Interesting, but not relevant. Yeah.

Do we have one last clip here? And it's a little bit off the beaten path. And it has to do with the fact that Tim was a bit of a point person in terms of getting people to produce things for discovery. Oh my God. Don't tell me... Oh my God. No.

Mr. Fruge. Have the document in front of you dated January 24th, 2019, captioned Eric Lafferty versus Alex Jones, affidavit of Timothy Fruge. Okay. Yes. Okay. Yes. Do you mind zooming a little bit?

Sure. Is that better? That's much better. Chris, I would note that the second page actually appears to have the correct date. I don't understand the date and caption. Oh yeah. Thank you. Thank you.

Yeah. So I just scroll down Mr. Fruge. You can see that all of the document on the first page is dated January 24th, 2019. You signed it on March 29th, 2015, right? Yeah. It appears so, yes. That's your signature, yeah? Yes.

That is my signature. And when we came back from the break, Attorney Bowman clarified that the affidavit you reviewed in advance of the deposition was this affidavit. Am I correct? Not the affidavit in the guilt workings. Let me look real quick. Yes. That is correct.

Okay. The question I was asking you earlier had to do with your role in producing response materials. And if you look at paragraph four, you test here that at the request of counsel, I asked all employees at Free Speech Systems, LLC, to perform a diligence search for their paper files, text messages, and instant messages for documents and materials related to the search request. No search turned up any response at that request, right?

Yes. That is correct. Do you have a recollection, as you see here today, making that request to all employees by way of an email you sent? That sounds right. Yes. And am I correct that in that email, you instructed employees who have response materials to let you know and to provide them to you, correct?

That is correct. And not a single employee gave you a single lock, correct? That is correct. Yeah, that checks out. That sounds right. And at no point in time did you think, maybe that's not a good thing. Maybe I should follow up with some of these people. Maybe I should send a second email.

Just another email, just a reminder email, like, hey, guys, in case you were wondering, apologies for saying guys, I meant to say people. Hey, people, just send us some documents. Wow, Infowars went woke. Yeah, exactly. Woken shirts. That's what they're doing. So yeah, this glimpse was very different than a lot of the other depositions that we've

had. It opened a door into another side of things, the business guy, the guy whose face is never around anywhere. Yeah. And I think, I think he sucks. I mean, I think that there is a more, and we've touched on this quite a bit, but like more so than any other person in Infowars that I've seen deposed a complete abdication of any responsibility for what they're doing.

Yeah. Just someone who clearly doesn't like or here's the thing. There's a possibility that he clearly doesn't like Alex and doesn't like the show and all this, or he understands that that's what a normal person would do. I guess. And he's putting on the front of not liking Alex's show because obviously no one in their right mind would think that this is a great show. Right.

Right. Right. Right. Right. Either is pretty bleak. Man, I mean, I think to me, it's a bit like, you know, if you're the executioner doing the lethal injection or whatever, and you're actively against the death penalty, then you're out of your fucking mind, you know, like you can't.

You should get a new job. You can't do the thing. Yeah. You know, you can't do it. Yeah. I think you have a moral responsibility to leave a job that you ethically are opposed to. Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. And for him to just decide callously and cynically, just like, you know what, fuck it. I'll do it. Yeah, sure. I'll inject him. I don't give a shit. Fucked up. I think a lot of people in some corporate environments probably do have some misgivings

about the companies that they work for and stuff. But to the extent that, you know, you're working for a right wing propagandist who agitates against people and communities and you're, you have to be aware of, like that's, I don't believe for a second that he doesn't, doesn't have a general sense of the stuff that Alex talks about. Because I mean, quite honestly, as you're saying, like the, if you're aware of no, you're aware of yes. Yeah.

Like if he doesn't agree with the stuff that's on Alex's show, then he's aware of it. Exactly. You know, like you have to be aware of something to disagree with it. Right. And so you're, you're aware of what it is that you are a part of. Exactly. Even if you. I don't know the details.

Even if you want to gain points for being against it or like, look, I don't agree with all this. You're still aware of what it is. You still cash the checks and fuck you. Yeah. 100%. Yeah. It's like, yeah, you know, I was sure I was, I was the campaign manager for Lindberg, but

I'm not an anti-Semite. Okay. I don't think that that, I think that's a way bad idea. I was trying to make him president, but I thought it was a bad idea to do it, you know? So, um, I have some more depositions and stuff to, uh, that we'll get to down the road, but you know, it's, it's weird. There's a, there's a batch that I have that they're more conflicting than some of the, the ones that we've covered in the past, you know, like Alex is obviously there's just

a bunch of bullshit and he's being a dick and yeah, you know, what have you, Daria? Um, I mean granted Daria's was crazy and conflicting and scary, but I also was prepared for that since I was in the room. Right. So like that I knew once we had the audio and video of it, like I'd sat with it for a while. That one. Yeah.

Yeah. This Tim Frige one is a bit conflicting to me and some of these other ones are too. So, you know, we're entering a new chapter, I guess, of depositions where it's like, uh, this is weird. I think what's fascinating all too often is that like on, on these shows and stuff, excuse me, on these shows, you know, it's you can, you can create this fictional version of somebody and then whenever you see them in those moments where they're not on camera, where they're we have to be people, it humanizes them.

And in this regard, I think every deposition we've, it's done the complete opposite. It is dehumanized. These people, the more I know what they think, the more I'm like, you're an alien from somewhere else because this is bananas. Yeah. And what's strange too is that for Tim, this is the first time that you have an image of him. Yeah.

Yeah. All you knew is he was some guy who was there in the business section of stuff. It wasn't a persona or anything. This is just, you're getting a clear first view of him and that is something that's a little bit different. I mean, Adon Salazar granted never seen him on camera, but we read his work. He's an asshole. Yeah.

Seen him on Twitter and, you know, read some of these articles, whereas I'd never seen a creative output from Tim Frosier. You know, I wonder if that is exactly though what you would need to be to be the money person at info wars, you know, you can't be a believer because a believer is not somebody you want handling money, but that's why you have an accountant also sure, but he's not the accountant. No, I know, but I mean, to do that would require the sort of moral absence that is, is that he's exhibiting, exhibiting, exhibiting, exhibiting, that's my word.

Yeah. Yeah. I, I don't know. Maybe. God damn. But it's terrifying. I mean, it still sucks. That's terrifying.

Yeah. I want to run away from these people and I'll allow it now because we're done. Yeah, we'll be back Jordan with another episode, hopefully with the predictions for 2023. So we can go about living our lives. I think in 2025, 2026, we're going to finally know what 2023 was supposed to be. I'm in such a holding pattern here, man. It's tough. You owe us.

Yeah. Come on, Alex. Give us those predictions. Yeah. But we'll be back until then. We have a website. It's knowledgefight.com. Yep.

We're also on Twitter. We are on Twitter. It's at knowledge underscore fight. Yep. We'll be back. But until then, I'm Neo. I'm Leo. I'm DZX Clark.

I'm man. I'm getting fucking tired of this reveal OP Oliver. Yeah. I believe it. Boy, it just gets worse. Oh yeah. Yeah. That guy sucks.

Oh, I also learned this from the introduction to his book. The, I don't even want to say the name of it, but the introduction to his book, he explains that the firstborn for six generations in his family has been given the power to get the fuck out of here. Yeah. So it's even crazier. Yeah. So it's a legacy thing.

And now here comes the sex robot, Andy and Kansas. You're on the air. Thanks for holding. Oh, Alex. I'm a first-name caller. I'm a huge fan. I love your work.