Knowledge Fight - #767: January 12, 2023

Episode Date: January 16, 2023

Today, Dan and Jordan check in with Alex's present day affairs, but quickly get distracted by the urgent need to cover round two of the Battle of the Century.  In this installment, Alex returns to one of his greatest passions: yelling at Piers Morgan.

I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys saying we are the bad guys knowledge fight. Dan and George knowledge fight. I need money. Andy and Kansas. Andy and Kansas. Andy and Kansas. Andy and Kansas. Andy and Kansas. Andy and Kansas. Andy and Kansas. Andy and Kansas. You're on the earth. Thanks for holding me. Hello Alex and Mr. Tim Cullen, I'm a huge fan. I love your world. Knowledge fight. Knowledge fight dot com. I love you everybody. Welcome back to Knowledge

Fight. I'm Dan. I'm Jordan. We're a couple dudes like to sit around worship at the altar of Celine and talk a little bit about Alex Jones. Oh, indeed we are Dan Jordan, Jordan. Quick question for you, my buddy. What's up? What's your bright spot today? My bright spot today, Jordan, is okay. So last time we talked about this, I went to Wendy's

and I got the chicken sandwich with mozzarella patty and oh, so good. And so I decided, hey, let's double down on this. No, how? Why? What? No, I saw a commercial on YouTube for White Castle and they had sloppy Joe. Oh my God. Yep. So I decided to order myself some sloppy Joe's from White Castle. I told you not to do it. I don't like White Castle, but I love sloppy Joe's.

I mean, it is truly a paradox. What is one man to do? There was a back in Columbia, there was a place called Lee Street Deli. They were really popular for having LSD shirts that people would love to because it was like it was like a drug. Yeah, it's like the drug, but it's not. This deli was like in the basement of a residential house. It's really difficult to describe what it is. I think people lived up there, but the entrance was like through the back on the downstairs. Right, right, right.

I don't have you and I don't know that you were getting bootleg deli. Yeah, that's what you were. They couldn't possibly fell off the back of a truck. I don't know where we found it. They couldn't possibly have had a license. I'm certain of it, but they had a thing called Juicy Burgers. It was two for two bucks on Tuesday and I mean, it was just a sloppy Joe. Yeah, yeah. So good. I like that. I like that. I worked there one night.

How did it go? I didn't technically work there. I was just really drunk. My buddy Kyle Ayers worked there. That's where, no, no, no, no, that's where you end that sentence. Period. End of thought moving on. They were, I didn't work there. I was just really drunk. Period. They were open fairly late because we were like sloppy Joe. It was pretty late. It was on East campus, like sort of a lot of college student housing and stuff. And yeah, so I was working and he's just like, you want to, you want to help out? I'm like, fuck it.

Yeah. I don't know if I did a good job. Probably not. Well, who knows? But anyway, I have a love for sloppy Joe's. I got these from White Castle and I mean, look, they were pretty good, which sucks. I felt terrible later. Of course. A little bit later, I felt like, oh no, but they had a good, they had a good sloppy Joe taste.

If you didn't feel terrible afterwards, you would be like this, it was in a White Castle experience, right? True. It's almost part of it. No, but here's the thing. I, in history, have gone to White Castle about once a year or so to remind myself. To test its strength. Yeah, of course.

Like Soros was making it more powerful. Absolutely. I have to remind myself I don't want to do it. And this time, unfortunately, I don't think that I had that same experience with the burgers and stuff. I'll get it like, oh yeah, that's why I don't go. Yeah. You never should have done that first. I felt bad, but like, I feel bad after eating a ton of shitty food sometimes.

It's not that different. This time it's not White Castle's fault is what you're trying to say. Anyway, I might get sloppy Joe's again soon. Limited time only, baby. It's time only. Well, you know, you don't have much of a choice. Anyway, what's your bright spot? My bright spot.

I don't know if you recall the last bright spot that I had. Oh, we're both doing sequels. Yeah, exactly. So you're doing the sequel to that one. And then we sold out the show that we announced very quickly, which is a lot to handle. So I mean, we joked about like, maybe it'll be a few tickets or sold out immediately. And unfortunately, I don't know if that's all right. Surprisingly, yes, it was the latter.

It sold out very fast. Yeah, yeah, much faster than we thought it's wild. So so we have added another show. Yeah. We're going to do another one on Thursday, the second second of March. Right. The tickets for that are going to go live on Wednesday. Yeah, that way everybody has more of some time.

We got a lot of messages that people just found out about the show 20 minutes after it was sold out. I mean, that's that's crazy. So we're going to give you some space. Yeah, there's there's I would I don't I don't know. I'm not super drawn to doing a ton of live shows or, you know, like that's not I feel weird about how our show looks on a stage. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, I understand. But I am very motivated by people being like, hey, I wanted to come to. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was 45 minutes after the they went live and I I feel bad for people. And so like I want to be able to deliver that. And so second show is very, very appropriate. And so, yeah, if you've got tickets already, please leave as many open to as many people. I don't know. Now I feel egotistical, saying like I would say I would be begging

for more people. Yeah, I don't know. How do we do this, man? I don't know how to do this part. Uncharted territory, their shows are going to be different. Yes. Yeah, yeah. And they'll all come out as episodes, obviously. So, you know, no one's going to miss out on the thing itself.

We've not hidden anything from you in the past. We're not going to hide anything now. I think the best way to say this is like if you had a ticket, if you got to take it to the first one and you want to come to the second one, that's cool. But maybe give it a little bit of time to give people a chance. You didn't because I, you know, hey, come on. That's the idea.

We want everybody to call, you know, I don't know. I want people to have a good time. The last time. Hold on. Let me try and think about this. The last time I was trying to sell tickets for something was a show that I was doing and I was standing outside of a bar asking strangers if they wanted to wander in. This is very uncharted territory for me. Oh, those days, those old barking on the street days.

Yeah. Yeah. Or our live show at the playground. Good stuff. Good stuff. Attendance of eight. Yeah. Yeah. I think somebody pointed out that the poster says it's our first live show and that's not true. We've done two live shows already, but a total of 30 people have seen them.

So no, we had a decent crowd in Austin, but I also I also think that the people at the venue might have added like Instagram and Facebook accounts that aren't ours. I'm sorry. What? I think that they just tried to gather like social media things. And I don't think those are ours. Oh, well, because we don't have a Facebook page. No, we don't. OK, well, I have fun with that.

Yeah. Anyway, today we have an episode to do indeed. We do. And as discussed, we are going to be back in the present. OK. So I decided, hey, let's check in. Let's see what was going on last week. Right. And so I tuned in on the sick or I'm sorry, on the ninth. And I was greeted by this in the third hour. Roger Stone's going to join us to talk about Nixon's hundred and ninth birthday today. I'm like, what the fuck?

What? Why? What are we doing? Wait, is he back? He's not. OK, thank God. And it's also his hundred tenth birthday. Alex has to correct himself later. What are we doing? Right. And so I was like, this isn't great. So I jump forward.

And so we're going to be talking about the 12th today, Thursday, the 12th. Why does he sound so bad on the ninth? Is that the audience that just sound that bad now? He might just sound bad as a person. OK. But we're going to jump to the 12th. And one of the reasons for this was that the article in the HuffPost. Yes, yes. It came out on Thursday.

I was thinking, yeah, Alex might come out of the gate. He's got to have something. Right. Saying some stuff about, hey, look at these people trying to make a petty attack on reading my texts. Anything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we'll get to this. We'll check in on the 12th and see what happens.

But until then, before that. But until then, we've got a website. Sloppy Joe. Sloppy Joe. That's what we'll do it. Let's say hello to some new walks. Oh, that's a great idea. So first, I'm a sodomite with a Caribbean black accent. I sent to Bucket of Poop, to Jar Jar Binks.

Thank you so much, your now a policy Wonk. I'm a policy Wonk. Thank you very much. Thank you next, the great state of denial. Thank you so much, your now a policy Wonk. I'm a policy Wonk. Thank you very much. Thank you.

Next, Happy Little Away's info racoon. Thank you so much, your now a policy Wonk. I'm a policy Wonk. Thank you very much. Next Dan Salmon. Happy Anniversary and revealed. Thank you so much, your now a policy Wonk. I'm a policy Wonk.

Thank you very much. And we got a technocrat in the mix. Jordan. You excited about that? I'm very excited. So thank you so much to Lilith, the Satanic Transwitch. You are now a technocrat. I'm a policy Wonk.

I have risen above my enemies. I might quit tomorrow, actually. I'm just going to take a little breaky now. A little breaky for me. And then we're going to come back. And I'm going to start the show over. But I'm the devil. I got to be taken out of here.

I'm going to do all this. Fuck you. Fuck you. I got plenty of words for you. But at the end of the day, fuck you in your new world order and fuck the horse you rode in on and all your shit. Maybe today should be my last broadcast. I mean, maybe I'll just be gone a month, maybe five years.

Maybe I'll walk out of here tomorrow and you never see me again. That's really what I want to do. I never want to come back here again. I apologize to the crew and the listeners yesterday that I was legitimately having breakdowns on air. I'll be better tomorrow. He's not.

He's talking about Nixon's birthday. Hey, happy birthday, Nixon. Happy birthday. So all right, Pete. So on the ninth, Alex has Roger on for Nixon talk. And also a lot of boring JFK talk, like just boring ass conspiracy JFK stuff. Like you could get this from anywhere.

There's no added wrinkle to it. Although Alex does refer to Roger as one of Nixon's only unindicted plumbers. Roger probably doesn't maybe doesn't want that exact title going on there. But there's one clip that I just wanted to play. This is after a lot of really boring talk. Alex drops this.

And then I got some inside baseball too. My grandmother in college dated LBJ's hitman. She almost married him. And he basically told her all about it as well. Because LBJ was killed people all the time. Will be right back, my mom's mommy here in Austin, Texas. We'll be right back soon. Good thing you clarified it was on your mom's side.

That was the thing that I was going to ask. My next question obviously had nothing to do with LBJ murdering people left and right. I was like, hey, which side of the family? My grandma almost married LBJ's assassin. All right, man. All right, buddy. You know, that's when you go back in those relationships

and you have those talks about what were your exes like. Not many people can say that my ex was the wet work guy for LBJ. That's a claim to fame. And I would assume that person's probably dead by now. So Alex should name names. Yeah, absolutely. Quite frankly.

Absolutely. He won't because this is bullshit. Coward. Anyway, we jump to the 12th here. And Alex has a big guest. MTG is set to join us coming up in the next segment. Criminal investigations are being launched around the world. I'm out of the poison shots.

Now the FDA has released the documents admitting it's causing mass heart attacks and cardiovascular crises. Here's a promo Joe Rogan sent me yesterday. It's a little satire piece. But it's very, very sick when you realize how real this is. Are you suffering from a medical coincidence? Are you or a loved one suffering from a medical coincidence?

This is damning from an information and comedy perspective for Rogan. Yeah. Rogan sent Alex this video. Oh, boy. Not funny. Also based on bullshit. Is this is that satire?

Yeah, I think technically I think it's unsuccessful. But it's in the genre. Fair, fair. I'll give it that. Yeah. So yeah, MTG coming on. Great. Great.

Wait, so where is I'm confused now as far as the party affiliation line go? Yeah, because after the Kevin McCarthy thing shifting allegiance, everybody's being an asshole all the time now. So who knows where everybody's standing. Right. So yeah, that that is something that has touched info wars as there's some backlash among the audience.

They do not like Marjorie Taylor-Green as much anymore because she did side with Kevin McCarthy. Of course. Alex has some interesting thoughts about that, which we'll get to. And I think that he's not considering where his bread is buttered and what Marjorie margarine butter bread. Devon.

You almost called me Devon. I know because you mixed up the word. Now I'm screwing up. No, I was just doing word play. I was just doing simple word associations. I know. So yeah, I think that Alex doesn't quite understand the posture that Marjorie has struck with this.

Yes. And we'll get to that. OK. But first, Alex comes out of the satire piece. OK. Give your coincidence the attention it deserves, but not the wrong kind of attention. At Kaufman.

Schedule your appointment today at Kaufmancoincidence.com and receive a doctor's note with a real sciencey sounding explanation to provide your anti-vax friends. Proving to them, it was definitely not the vaccine that caused your coincidence. Kaufman, because coincidences happen pretty much all the time. And those coincidences are killing an extra 13% death rate compared to the years previous.

I'm sorry. The death rate of the planet's ever seen. Did coincidence related deaths go up? Thank you for joining us on this live 30th January 12th transmission. EMTG's been scheduled twice this week, but had to move it because of all the voting going on. But they're set to let out Congress early.

She's got a half day. She's got a half day. That just made me think of like being at school. Yay, we get to get out at 1. The green gets out early today. It's parent teacher conferences day. We get out early. Yeah, and those numbers Alex is throwing out or just made up.

Sure. So there's a lot of voting going on, a whole lot of voting. And there's one vote in particular that Alex wants to bring up as a damning indictment of the Democratic Party. OK. Then we have another big piece of legislation. 210 Democrats voting against Bill requiring

medical care for babies born alive after an abortion attempt. So in fantasy, they're pushing to basically keep legal. They've been doing it by fiat. That's all coming up. This isn't news. It's already illegal under federal law to not provide emergency care in the super rare event that there is a live birth after an attempted abortion

procedure. This bill in the House was just grandstanding for the conservative base and an attempt to come up with a headline exactly like the one Alex is covering while also being an opportunity to attack access to reproductive health care. They did the same thing in 2019, and it went nowhere, except to rile up the base and to demonize the Democrats who

voted against this pointless bill meant to stir up conflict. Anyway, there's no way this bill will pass the Senate, so it's kind of a moot point outside of the play that it gets in far-right media. This specific bill was introduced by Representative Ann Wagner of Missouri, who also introduced this same bill in January 2021 and March 2019. And I have to guess, if she's re-elected,

it'll be the first thing she introduces in the next Congress. This just happens all the time. Yeah, I would say this bill, if you're going to take this bill seriously, then you should also take my bill seriously. The if the baby is born and we can demonstrably prove it's a demon at birth, you have to kill it, Bill. Equally as likely to occur, equally as deadly.

Tough to get that one through the Senate, actually. I imagine so, and yet they're the same. Weird. So Marjorie Taylor Greene, one of the best. I think Alex is like you were worrying about, a little bit out of step. Well, she's got one of the best voting records in Congress. She was joined by Gozer and others

that have similar awesome America First records in supporting McCarthy. She got a lot of criticism, but Trump was supporting McCarthy as well. Here she is to tell us why she did it and what's on the agenda. I know what Roger Stone says. He says that small majority, that 20 members of so,

or patriots, can now basically control the House and the entire agenda. But why would we then want McCarthy to be in that position? I guess we're going to ask MTG that. But I love her. She's one of the best members of Congress. So yeah, the base is slipping away from MTG.

Because why would they? Why wouldn't they? They have other people who are willing to do the same inciting shit that they want her to do or the reason they like her. And now she's doing stuff that is clearly meant to be in her best interest. And so fuck her.

She's out. And Alex is still trying to hold on. And hey, maybe I'm being rash. She should be afforded the opportunity to explain herself, right? I mean, no. No. Well, unfortunately, Alex disagrees with you.

OK. And we're doing a show where we listen to his show. Fair enough, fair enough. Die well. Well, I can just make it real short and sweet and let everyone know that the person you see right now is no different than the person you've known over the past two years.

And the reason why I didn't oppose Kevin McCarthy's speakership, because I knew there was no plan against him. Because no one else was truly running for speaker. And I was also already on board with the agenda that he had set forth and that many of us had worked with him on. The great thing that people don't know about Kevin McCarthy is he has listened to us for the past two years.

And he's truly listening to the American people. He's working with President Trump all the time on the America First agenda. And so I'm already on board for that. And I have truly hated Nancy Pelosi's speakership and watched her past Biden's agenda. And for me, I just could not wait to have a Republican speaker. I could not wait to have the gavel.

And I was ready to go for investigations that need to be done and ready to go for real work to undo all the awful things that Joe Biden has been able to accomplish with Nancy Pelosi and Mitch McConnell helping her in the Senate. What? What? Yeah, McConnell and Pelosi were in coot.

What are we doing now? What are we doing here, FDG? She's still trying to hold on to a little bit of that crazy appeal. Yeah, I mean, come on. You're gone. It's over. I hate to say this, though, but she gets it.

No, no, no, she does. She totally, that's the problem, though. I mean, that's why everybody is. She's showing that she's maybe a little bit smarter or craftier than people maybe have given her credit for. And understandably, I mean, she's said completely nonsensical things, was into QAnon. Understandable to think like she doesn't have any instincts

at all, but this is a good instinct. And she's totally correct that there was no plan for anything here. The opposing Kevin McCarthy, there wasn't a plan for leveraging it to get actual things for it. There was nobody else who was a legitimate candidate. And push comes to shove, what are you going to end up doing? Nothing.

Nothing. So she's right. She's wrong about a lot of other stuff, but in that sense that Matt Gaetz didn't have a plan. Right, right. He was being a dick. No, the general idea was throw a tantrum, see what happens, and then whenever it turns out what happens

is they'll capitulate and give you whatever you want, suddenly realize you didn't think that far ahead. You didn't think about that asking part of hostage negotiation. Hope to get some memes along the way. Yeah, exactly. That's what your goal was to be a dick. And all of a sudden you're like, wait, you want to give us power? That's all it took.

Ah, shit. Oh, shit. So Marjorie has another decent point here. You have, first of all, there was no plan. Right. There wasn't another person who was going to be made speaker. Right, obvious. And then she has a point that the thing

that they claimed they got, they didn't even get. And then I just want everybody to understand, here's something very important, and I've got both of them in my hand. This is the rules package right here. This is the rules package that we had on January 1st, the dates right here at the bottom. And this was before we ever took the first vote for speaker.

And in this rules package, the only thing that got changed, and here's the second rules package, this is on January 6th. This was the final day that we voted for speaker after 15 ballots. The only thing changed in the rules package was the motion to vacate went from one member of Congress. I mean, I'm sorry, five members of Congress. It was five members in the original package on January 1st.

And it went to one member on the motion to vacate on January 6th. So if anyone is confused and thinks that a lot changed after the big fighting they saw on television, after 15 ballots, 20 Republicans opposing Kevin McCarthy, and a lot of negotiating, nothing changed in the rules, nothing changed in writing, but the motion to vacate from five members to one. OK, so to be clear, I like seeing 20 members flex their muscle.

I liked that the demonstration of power, kind of like Senator Mnuchin, has been able to do a lot of good things. He's certainly not perfect, but he's blocked a lot of really bad things because they have a very slim majority. The Democrats do in the Senate. You guys can now do something similarly. So Roger explained to Alex recently that there's a dynamic where a small group of people in the House

can be assholes and clog up the gears, essentially holding the legislative process hostage. And Alex has been really excited to bring it up a bunch lately. It's great. It's great. He's kind of like a schoolboy, proud to have learned a new word. Also, he thinks Joe Manchin is named Mnuchin. He calls him that constantly. This is not just a slip of the tongue thing.

Treasury Secretary Senator Mnuchin. Yes, exactly. Movie producer extraordinaire. Alex is making an interesting pitch to MTG here, but the reality is that she's very publicly cited against that small group that Alex wants to flex their power. I wouldn't be too surprised to see her occasionally find common cause with them, but in terms of the big picture,

she made her position entirely clear, and that was that she sides with the part of the party that can actually get something done, as opposed to the side that's all about stalling and obfuscation. I'm loathe to call MTG smart, but there's a cunning that's being displayed here. We talked in the past about how she served an incredibly useful role for the GOP

in the context of a Democrat-controlled House, even if she was attacking Republicans. She was able to cause huge scenes and get into embarrassing fights with other members of Congress, and it all worked to delay any possibility of Democrats getting anything done. However, that role is not useful

once the GOP is in charge of the House, and all of the stalling and grandstanding is being directed at them. Marjorie knew exactly when to change strategies, and I think she made the right call for herself. The extreme right-wing community she was getting in bed with was always going to turn on her eventually. You don't stay on people like Nick Fuentes

as good side for very long, and for people like that, if you're not as extreme as the most extreme people in the movement, you're an option to be branded as a sellout if they need it. You're expendable. If you're dealing with people like Matt Gaetz and Lauren Boebert, it's probably really smart

to exit that game of brinksmanship and make a very public statement in this speaker vote. That's almost certainly the best time that she could have done that. Now, unfortunately, this does come with some downsides. She's going to lose the nutty folks who were her primary base up till this point. The good news there is that her district

is so strongly Republican that as long as she wins her primary, she's essentially guaranteed reelection. By buddying up with McCarthy and the GOP establishment, Marjorie has made it much less likely that she's gonna end up running in a primary against a challenger who has support from the Republican establishment

and the party and the fundraising and all that. So she's probably... Kind of a big deal for her. Other folks are going to be in a bind here, though, people like Alex. MGG is somebody that he's supported heavily because she's been willing to come on the show. He wants that access to power and proximity to it,

but the more he pursues connection with her, the more out of step with the audience he's going to become. The extreme right thinks he's a sellout and a shill, which isn't great for the tip of the spear. The real interest in having her on and associated with the show lies in her popularity with the far right, and as that erodes,

it becomes less beneficial to have her on. Anyway, well-played MGG, probably the best thing she could have done for her political career. It's an interesting position for Alex to be put in, though, to see how long he sticks around here. It seems so crazy to me because it's such a perfect... Like, if you wanted to,

this would be the way that you dealt with the system. As MGG is a perfect little, like, snapshot of her even now coming out being like, hey, guys, all that grandstanding they did amounted to nothing, which might as well be her texting herself from five years ago, being like, all you're doing is pointless. It's a waste of everybody's fucking time.

But then, because she got enough of that power in there, now she's got the support of the party system behind her, regulatory capture, man. Now she's part of the very system because the system is the thing that protects her. That's what she wants to be part of, not part of the crazies anymore. So the whole point of this

is that they are exploiting the crazies to get to the place where they're safe and they don't have to listen to the crazies anymore. Alex should just put that on the fucking board. I don't know. I don't know how I could say it any different, but... Yeah. I don't know if she understands it exactly like this,

but like her primary brand is not useful in the GOP now. Yeah. It's useful before. Now, it's a liability. Yeah, it's just strategic. It's like playing chess. Pawn cannot do the same thing a bishop can. But it's remarkable that you could just do that.

You could just change up your brand. You can just do it, because that's what America allows you to do. Someone like her who goes to America First conferences and speaks with these people. And that person can just be like, oh, hey, I'm friends with McCarthy now. Hey, now the party machine loves me.

I've always been a party person. I'm a big Republican at heart. It's strange. It doesn't matter what I said yesterday, because they know I'm a liar. I know their liars. We're all lying together. It's strange that they would just go along with it,

because I think that there is a basic distrust or that you should have, a healthy distrust around someone like this. Yeah, but that's why they have to make, you know, I mean, it is like, it's insane that you can do that. But on the other hand, you do have to remind yourself, they believe they're fighting the literal devil. You know, like, sure, MTG can switch teams

or for how crazy he believes that. All of them fucking do. All of them think that Democrats are literally evil. Oh, we'll get to that in this next question. See? I mean, Well, that was my next point. I had the Fox News article 210 Democrats

voting against Bill requiring medical care for babies born alive after abortion attempt. That is just unbelievable. Yeah, this just shows you how cold, heartless, and evil Democrats are. That they would literally vote against medical care for a baby that survived an abortion, a horrific attempted murder on this life.

And the baby is still born alive. Democrats are voting to murder it. You gotta murder. I would, you know what? Fuck it. I will write the bill. It's called the don't get away law. Okay.

If a baby is aborted and accidentally gets born alive, guess what? You gotta kill it. You gotta kill it. Because then it'll look bad for the abortion provider. That's what I'm really thinking about here. So you're into small businesses. I've been to small businesses.

I don't want them to get the bad rap for always giving birth to their abortions. I can't side with you on this. So yeah, I mean, obviously, I think you're right. In as much as they demonize the opponent still, there's still a great deal of that. But this friction inner party is not going to sustain. It's not going to be sustainable.

And obviously who ends up having the most power is people who are able to negotiate and able to compromise. Because there is a certain amount of the democratic people in Congress that could be swayed over towards. So these folks, the 20, whatever people in the house who are these fringe, no one gonna block everything. Realistically, if the GOP just has sensible

middle of the road kind of stuff they want to get done, number of Democrats will come over. Yeah, but on the other hand, they don't. True. So that's part of the problem. Like, because I mean, this whole speaker thing, like here's what they could have done. They could have squeezed the far right.

They could have squeezed them and been like, hey, you guys want to be dicks, guess what? We can get 10 Democrats if we change these rules. We'll just get 10 Democrats. Speaker Kevin will be there. We'll have these rules and you guys can go fuck yourself. But I think that there's probably. But they can't do that.

But there's also more strategic value probably for the Democrats to not go along with that. Oh, of course. And allow the party to be shown, to have this serious fracture in it. So then you squeeze them and what winds up happening is we have 15 votes and only one thing got changed in the rules package that meant nothing.

Yeah. So anyway, we got culture wars. Now they're set, Fox News is reporting, to try to ban all gas heaters and stoves. Those are incredibly clean sources of heat and energy depending on our food. What are you going to do about that? I think it's appalling and we have to stop it.

And I want you to know the vote that I just had an hour ago, Republicans voted to stop any of our oil and our strategic petroleum reserves to be sold to China. That was something that we just got done today. But this attack on the gas industry is appalling and it's America last. America last. Oh my God.

This was a fake fight that was being waged in the culture wars last week over the idea that Biden was going to ban gas stoves. In reality, a member of the Consumer Product Safety Commission just suggested looking into new regulations about gas stoves after a meta analysis of studies concluded that gas stoves were associated with about 12% of youth asthma cases in the United States.

How direct is that association? It's unclear, but there are researchers who have drawn conclusions that are troubling. Electric stoves are more safe from a few standpoints and the major player in the push to fight against these regulations against gas is naturally the fossil fuel industry. Obviously these fossil fuel companies have lobbied

hard against regulations even though studies have been coming out for at least the past 30 years demonstrating health risks associated with gas stoves. But in addition to that political action, they've also engaged PR firms to pose as normal people to create culture war agitation inciting them toward being defensive about their gas stoves. The fossil fuel industry?

Yeah. What? In a June 2021 article in Mother Jones, Rebecca Lieber brings up a story of an account manager for a PR firm posing as a normal person on Nextdoor who is riling up people against ominous fears of a coming gas ban. My God.

They have paid influencers on social media to boost gas stoves over electric ones. And now people like Alex, MTG, and the rest of the dumb, dumb folks in the far right media are doing all that work for free. Ultimately, the lesson here is that if you want a way to get a ton of free marketing for something, turn it into a stupid culture war issue.

If your product can be sold as owning the libs, people will buy it just a virtue signal. It'll be amazing. Just, oh, so much free press. It should be disqualifying for anybody, because I read about the gas stove thing. Somebody had an explainer for what was going on while I wasn't paying attention.

Apparently, everyone was fighting over pretend. Again, again. Yeah, it just, I mean, it's just sort of the normal. It's just what we do now. It should be stopped. It's whoever does it. Well, you can opt out. I mean, like a politician, that should be disqualifying.

If you're like, oh, it's time to rally around gas, fuck off. Get the fuck out of here. I don't care. I don't care what, even if you're right, even if you're right, you're overreacting to gas stoves. We've got bigger shit going on. Maybe we don't. Yes, we do.

It's a war on energy. Damn it! So, Alex says something in this next clip that got me a little excited. Get to Central. I'm gonna be on Pierce Morgan show. That's top show in the UK. It's also broadcast here in the US, and it's online.

Really? When he does big interviews, they get about 10 million views on YouTube. I really look forward to that. I haven't debated Pierce Morgan since 2013, almost 10 years ago. And that was the biggest event that year in ratings-wise on CNN.

This will be an hour-long debate. I'm gonna be friendly and nice if he lets me talk, but if he tries to run over me, well, you know what happens. We sure do. Wait, let me ask you a question. Has this already taken place? Yeah, and guess what? How long did it last?

As soon as I heard that clip, I said, okay, that's what we're talking about today, so we're gonna cover the Pierce Morgan interview. Well done. Yeah, nice turn, nice turn. I know it didn't last an hour. Okay. I think his show is an hour,

and the interview to Alex for like, I think 36 minutes is the total of the run time that I got. That was what was played. But also, maybe it's an hour with commercials, because there are a few commercial breaks. I'm not entirely sure, but hey, guess what? Doesn't go great. Doesn't go great.

That's not, who's, who, oh, hmm. So we covered the initial Pierce Morgan interview back in the 2013 interview, and of course the fallout where Alex showed up at a Pierce Morgan remote at a gun shop and begged him to come back on the show. Please, please, we made such good content together. Go War Fight was fun.

So many people watched. I get so many more viewers, because I yelled at you about going back to the UK. Hey, come on now. And then Alex started a change.org petition to get Pierce Morgan deported. Deported, deported. That's what it was.

Straight up deported. That's a little bit more extreme than cancel culture, I think. There is a little bit to that. There is a little bit to that. So yeah, I guess for whatever reason, Pierce decided, hey, on the 10th anniversary or so of that, let's do it again, buddy.

Whatever casting producer had that idea needs to get fired immediately. What are you doing? But also tough to resist. I mean, like this, his show is fairly boring, for the most part, and where my curiosity latches on to is where my heart is drawn. Of course.

And to see the rematch between Pierce Morgan and Alex Jones at such different points of Alex's and Pierce's relative careers. It is interesting to see how both of them are pieces of shit that everyone dislikes, and yet are still around. Well, I mean, what channel is Pierce even on? I don't know.

Well, Alex is on InfoWars. How is it that we can't get rid of these guys as a society? I don't know. There is just, I think there's a momentum, I think. That's just at a certain point, the snowballs rolling down the hill. Yeah, you're there. You're just going to see what happens.

Yeah, here you go. And with Alex, I think he would have bowed out of public life if he had a tiny bit of shame. Sure, sure. That element works pretty strongly for him. And maybe the same for Pierce. Yeah, I was going to say, it helped Pierce a great deal to not have any shame, too.

Probably, yeah. So anyway, we got to get some of that no-having shame thing. No, I enjoy some of the borders and boundaries that Shane provides. So in this first clip here from Pierce's interview, he introduces the conversation. Free speech has its limits. Even in America, with its fabled First Amendment,

there are limits. You can't famously run into a theater in America and shout fire and create a stampede where people might die. So there are limits to free speech all around the world. But my guest tonight, well, he tests free speech, too, I would argue, its breaking point. His name is Alex Jones. He's a hugely influential, to many people,

a very dangerous conspiracy theorist. He's made himself hugely rich, peddling a lot of lies. This is what happened when we met last, debating gun laws a decade ago on CNN. How many gun murders were there in Britain? How many great white sharks kill people every year but they're scared to swim? And I'm here to tell you, 1776 will commence again

if you try to take our firearms. But you've got hordes of people burning down cities and beating old women's brains out every day. Let's try again. How many gun murders were there? Oh, you're going to ban your fest now? In Britain last year. How many chimpanzees can dance on the head of a pin?

Well, I've not spoken to Alex Jones in an interview format since that day. He's now, I would say, comfortably the world's most notorious conspiracy theorist. As I say, I defend everybody's right to an honestly held opinion. I defend everyone's right to use words of their choice. But that doesn't mean they're not accountable for those words.

And I don't think Alex Jones necessarily trades in honestly held opinions. Now, there is one of the only reasons that I think that this is a worthwhile interview to do. And that is that Pierce is willing to say to Alex, I don't even think you believe this shit. I don't think you like... That's where we've come in 10 years.

Yeah, there is a definite sense of like, what's the point of having this interview? What is going to be gained from this? Interesting. And I do think that there are very few people who are willing to be that confrontational like with Alex. I think you're inauthentic. I don't think you mean any of this.

I don't think you even believe what you're saying. Right. And so, for whatever reason, Pierce is situated in a place where he can say that to Alex and Alex will show up. And that is kind of a rare circumstance. Rogan won't say it to him. He won't show up for some actually confrontational interview

with someone who would hold his feet to the fire. Right, right, right. And so this is maybe the best you can get. And Pierce is in the place where this is something that he needs to do on account of like, Alex being a gigantic universal piece of shit gives him free access to points to make himself look like he's not a big of piece of shit, you know?

Perhaps, I mean... That's why he's having Alex on there. But he's also, he's been, like he had yay on. Sure, sure. I think he's... He's collecting giant pieces of shit to make himself look a little bit better next to it. Yeah.

So, I hate to say this. But I've got to defend Alex a little on this next clip. OK. Very few tragedies have ever moved me the way that Sandy Hook did. I was on air at CNN at the time that that story broke. Twenty children, aged between six and seven, were murdered by a lunatic with a semi-automatic rifle.

Alex Jones told his many followers within a few hours it was all a hoax, a government hoax, a deep state plot to justify seizing guns. He said that the grieving families were actors. The general public doesn't know the school was actually closed the year before. They don't know they've shielded all demolished the building. They don't know that they have the kids going in circles

in and out of the building as a photo op. This is a little bit disingenuous. And if I were Piers, I wouldn't have done things this way. Everything he's saying is true. And the clip of Alex is a fair representation of things Alex said. But because of the way it's presented, Alex stands to be able to say it's taken out of context.

Piers is saying that Alex said the event was fake within hours, then plays that clip, which is from years later, which does kind of give a slightly incorrect perception. If people aren't familiar with the story, it could lend to the image that Alex was promoting these far more elaborate conspiracies on the day of the shooting, which isn't the case. All in all, nothing incorrect is being said,

but I would be more careful with this presentation when dealing with someone like Alex. You don't want to give him the opportunity to make valid complaints. Yeah, and also he did question it on the day. So take a clip from that. You don't need to judge it up, you know? I think you want to come in with the big more overt things

that Alex said. Yeah, I get that. But here, I feel like if you're on TV, just show like on the day of Sandy Hook, you know, like have one of those big chyron saying, on this day, Alex says this, you know? And if you need to do this with the kind of better clips, what you could do is say he said it was.

Did it within hours, and here's him years later. Or play a little bit of the day of. And then it went on and escalated to blank. Yeah, it would be a more kind of accurate way to present it. But, you know, I'm just I'm just considering that for the, you know, potential people who are watching who aren't super familiar with all this. I think where we are in the world of media is if you say a date

and then play a clip, the clip needs to be from or about that date. And if it is not, then you are providing. And it's a small thing, you know, it's not huge. You just don't want to open options. It's just it's almost like a visual grammar. You know, it's like you're using your pronouns wrong. If you're if you're refusing or using dates wrong on clips, you know, it's yeah, it is the visual grammar is a good way

to put it, I think, because because there's an optics to it. That's just how people will understand exactly. Yeah. So Pierce does not like what Alex does, but Voltaire, something or other. I have made my views clear about that. But I also think that it's right that I should interview him tonight.

Why? He wanted to come up and talk to me and to explain what's gone down here and where he's found himself, which is facing a 1.5 billion dollar payout to the families. Never get tired of hearing that. And I do believe that people should be allowed to express themselves, as long as they're held to account and they're challenged on that.

And that's what we're going to do tonight with Alex Jones. So my guest tonight is Alex Jones. He's over in Texas in America. Alex, good evening, T. Here's it's good to be here with you after 10 years and the biggest news event on CNN in 2013. So the circle is now complete. Just wow.

Right at the gate. Me and a piece of an asshole. Yeah. I gave you your best ratings. Oh my God, Alex already, already, man. Kiss the ring. Just say hi. Kiss the ring.

Just say hi. You're nothing without me. Oh, God. Pretty. Pretty. Pretty. It's a little aggressive. It's passive aggressive.

But you know, I think that there is an unanswerable question about that. Like what? Like, yeah, why are you having him on? And I think you can get a sense that maybe Alex asked. Yeah. Because he said he wanted to come on. Yeah.

And Alex reached out and it's like, hey, you had yay on. Totally. You'd talk to me. No, I agree. I think that's and I think that's why Alex is, is on there because there's, I mean, Piers, Piers is not reaching out to, to Alex. Why would he?

He had yay on. Right. So if he wanted to talk about that, then he got, he got what he wanted out of it, you know. Well, but the $1.5 billion judgment is maybe the timely thing that peers would want to talk about. True. But yeah, it, it, it strikes me as a possibility that Alex

reached out. I, so maybe not worth it. And I, and I mean, I, I believe that because it is something where it's like, oh, well, they have yay on. So I'm, I'm in the ballpark. Yeah. You know, I could go. I won't be precluded.

Exactly. I wouldn't be, if I sent an email saying, can I come on the show? They wouldn't be like, ha, ha, ha, ha, you suck. You know, it's possible. Yes. So, you know, the Sandy Hook is obviously a big topic of conversation. Of course.

And so Alex, you'll see him throw out pretty much all of his. He's not the Sandy Hook man. He's a lot of normal talking points, but you just spent eight minutes saying a lot of things that were true. A lot of things that weren't true. So I'd like to address that right now if I can. When I came on your show months and months after Sandy Hook in the scene in studios in New York, I never said it didn't happen.

I never sent people their houses. When the internet went totally viral in the next year, questioning it with anomalies, I did cover 23 minutes is what they introduced in court over the next few years. A few times we're talking five, six shows. What the internet was questioning on my call in radio show with a document cam on air. But I did not build my career off Sandy Hook. I barely, not even one tenth of 1% covered it. And so to say that I sent people to harass families or I didn't say that on the graves

of the children. I didn't say that. I didn't say you sent anyone to do anything. I want to have a reasonable conversation. I don't get into the screaming match that descended into last time. I think that's futile of everyone watching. I got bad news, buddy. Yeah.

I'm like, what are you doing here? You know exactly what's going to happen here. How dare you? Every single person who's listening to our podcast knows that this is going to deteriorate it to a certain point. 100%. Yes. And you, and you know it too.

Yeah. And you know, you know it. Because you know that that's a button you can press whenever you want. You can say something enough to make him go crazy. And then you can say, this interview is over. People who don't know who Alex is, people who don't know who Pierce is, they know this is going to deteriorate into a screaming match. But it is, it is kind of notable that Alex is kind of a robot.

You know, like there is something to be said there. He's just, it's rote. He's just saying these things that he always says that aren't true. He's bullshit talking points about how he's not so bad. And Pierce is just like, I didn't say that stuff. Let's try and actually have a back and forth. And Alex, like a little titty baby. Oh yeah.

Just being like, you talk for eight minutes. This is going to be a thing that pops up a bunch. And it's one of the markers, I think, of people who suck. And that is the like, you're not giving me my time. Can I finish? Can I finish? You won't let me talk. Especially for someone like Alex, who steamrolls people constantly.

Yeah. For him to be like, you won't let me talk is a little bit soft. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Whenever, whenever you're in a conversation with a, you won't let me talk person. Generally speaking, that's after you've let them talk for a long time and you were about to say something in response. Yeah. And then they're like, you won't let me talk.

And you're like, all right, I see where this is going. You all let me talk as often. This isn't going right. Yeah, this isn't how I wanted to go. So Pears gets a question out and I don't think this is a question Alex is going to answer. You find yourself in a very bad place right now. You're facing paying out potentially $1.5 billion to these families.

You said that you don't have that money. You can't pay that money. So far, you haven't paid any of the money. How do you feel, first of all, about the fact that you've faced this gigantic well, victory for the families and defeat for you. OK, so you did eight minutes and 45 seconds. I got 30 seconds. I'll answer your question a moment.

I want to get something completely straight. I came on your show months and months and months and months after it happened. I blamed the serotonin reuptake inhibitors, the antidepressants. I blame the mother getting in the gun on your show. So the claim that I first questioned Sandy Hook or I first did it was a bunch of professors and a bunch of media people became a huge story. I looked at it and said, yeah, we've seen WMDs in Iraq. We've seen Operation Northwoods.

We see Justin Smollett. Later, you saw that. Then Holy shit. Thousands of fake doctors online saying the shot was safe and effective and protected you. Something you've come out and said was wrong and was a lie. So I always questioned every major event, but I did not make my bones on Sandy Hook. I barely covered it on your show. Months and months and months after it happened, I did not cover it.

Long after. Listen, I don't. You may well categorize this as a very small, small part of your career. Unfortunately for you, it's now become this gigantic part of your career because of the nature of this payout. So my that's totally true. So let me respond to your question to ask you. What did you feel about the size of the payout you've been ordered to pay?

Feels good. I feel great. Let me ask you a question. Have you ever seen $1.5 billion stacked on top of itself in pennies? It's goes to the moon. Yeah, I don't feel great about that. Don't feel great. I would rather go to the moon. I'd rather be in exile.

Yeah. So yeah, I don't think this question is going to get answered either. But there is this this through line that Alex keeps keeps coming to that is like, I said on your show that I didn't say it was fake there. And that's not really a defense. No, no, because no, that's not the accusation anyone's making really now. So yeah, how do you feel about that? That payout? Your honor, I didn't kill him in the water park.

So I didn't get. Oh, no, you're a while. I did kill him there. Yeah. OK, good point. Never mind. No, I see where we're where we're having a problem. So we're only like minutes into this. And you can already tell Alex is starting to get pissed. I was going to say, I feel like peers at any point in time could just be like, oh, I get why we didn't do this in 10 years. What are we doing? What are we doing here? Let's just stop.

I think that that is without spoiling anything, the thing he says at the end. So anyway, Alex is a little pissed. What did you feel about the size of the payout you've been ordered to pay and the fact that you suffered one of the biggest losses of any lawsuit of that nature in modern history? Well, I mean, it's not one of the biggest. It's the biggest. And so. So if you've got that baseball and know what actually went on,

I'm really happy to tell you. Well, I'm more interested in how you I'm more interested, Alex, and how you built this empire. And I'm going to come to how you built it in a moment. You built this empire as a very provocative. Many would argue they found you very entertaining as well. High energy, you know, mischief making shock jock for one of a better phrase who went on the airwaves and said a lot of very controversial things

and built up a very big following and made a vast amount of money doing it. I mean, you wouldn't dispute any of that, right? That's not attacking you. That's the statement of fact. So listen, but I'm happy to come on. But you've had 90 percent of the talk talk. It is much. I just want you to answer. Well, I get it. You can say what about me.

Again, I don't want to have a confrontational interview. Yeah. Bad news. You hear as. If you're asking, how do you feel about losing? And someone says, no, no, no, no, no, hold on. You've talked already for so much. This is going to be comfortable. I need to correct the record.

It's going to be confrontational. Yeah, I asked you how you feel. Alex, maybe not in touch with his feelings. How's your day go today? Now, listen, I've let you talk for five minutes already. Pierce, do you want your best ratings ever? Because I can give them to you, but it's going to be. It's going to require her shouting match.

It's going to be a fight. It's going to be a fight. So Alex explains his path with Sandy Hook, because that's what he really wants Pierce to understand. Right. Now, nothing he says is true. I was going to say, there's no way he tells any truth at all. I think almost everything, except for like him saying that Austin is a liberal area outside of stuff like that. I don't think anything he says in this clip is true.

That sounds right. As I say, you've built this big empire and now the entire empire has been imperiled by losing this lawsuit. I mean, you wouldn't dispute that. No, no. I have more than 15 offers right now on huge networks. If my system goes under. No way. Let me just explain something to you and let's talk facts. OK. Here's a timeline of 10 and a half years

since or 10 years, two months in Sandy Hook. It happens the first year. I don't think it's staged. It becomes a huge internet thing that it's staged. I have a few debates. I have a few guests on. I cover, I said, yeah, it could be staged. So much stuff is staged. Then I go two plus years, 2015 into 16, never discussing it. This all came out in the lawsuit.

And then they run against Trump. Hillary runs 30 million dollars of TV ads showing edited clips of me saying synthetic event never happened. And then Trump still wins. And we now learned after the lawsuits, they hired a high powered New York think tank PR firm to then make it a huge story. Tens of thousands of articles, thousands of newscasts

about me in 2016, 17 about Sandy Hook. I go, whoa, those anomalies are. Whoa, those professors and people were wrong. I think it happened. Nobody sued me. No one, Joe Rogan apologized to a whole apology tour because I wasn't sophisticated back then. I'm like, yeah, I think it happened. I barely covered it. Then they sue me once I apologize.

They have a judge in Texas in Austin, is a liberal in San Francisco and a Connecticut sue me. Then I give them all my text, all my documents, which they show in court, I gave them no documents. They default me first time in modern US history. I'm found guilty by judges and juries then have hearings on how guilty I am. Then they have a false financial expert get up and say, I'm worth four hundred million dollars at the time they did that six months ago

in that hearing in Texas and that kangaroo operation. I had like three million dollars in the bank. Well, you say, OK, let me. So all right, let me see. Hold on. You're buying. But you can't just keep talking, Alex. Let me just explain to you what he can. Oh, God forbid, I get a third of the time you get.

What's my show? It's the way it was. So I get it. 90 percent of the time. And you're so if I was a guest in the show, you don't want to. I'm just telling you, I just want to have a normal discussion. What a baby. That's just awful. But like, that's all not true. That's a fantastical fiction, if I've ever heard it. Yeah. So basically what you have there is that Alex has constructed

this false version of what happened in his life because the truth looks really bad. When he's in a confrontational interview setting like this one, as inaccurate as it is to say that Piers Morgan is confrontational, Alex pulls out this storyline. You notice, though, that when he's sitting down with a sympathetic ear like Glenn Greenwald, Alex will joke around about how he was drunk on air, saying this stuff. He wouldn't try that here because Piers wouldn't take that as a sign

that Alex is cool like Glenn does. It would be really sad and fucking crazy. Yeah, it would be like, do you recognize how big of a problem it is that you would do something like this? Yeah, because you were drunk on air. Like, do you know that number of things that should be realized before we get to this point is crazy? Right. He doesn't need to throw out this elaborate fake story

with folks who are like, hey, you know, Glenn Greenwald, you're cool. What I find fascinating about this version of events that he's telling this story version is that it is it's almost like his version of like, you know, oh, the mainstream media is full of shit and they're all stupid, but everything is true. If the mainstream, if it's in the mainstream media, I'll use it to prove how right I am. This is almost like the story of what a real person would do

if they had if they had found themselves in this type of situation. Yeah, yeah, a human being might have gone through a very similar series of sounding events because Alex needs to portray himself as a human being. Right. Yeah, I'm in every man. Look, I made a mistake and I tried to right the wrong. And then as soon as I apologize, the machine, I was in over my head. I was I was naive back then. I went on an apology tour.

We've all seen all the way. I need to correct that. He didn't apologize on Rogan's face, and then Rogan came back on on the next episode and said, I looked into some of the stuff Alex said, and it's not true. It's not true. Yeah, yeah, his Alex lied about his own past. Yeah, that's bullshit. Yeah, apology tour my ass.

Anyway, in this next clip, Piers plays a clip of one of the Sandy Hook family members. Yeah. And Mike down for this, because Alex's response to this is unbelievable. This is callous. Let's have a normal debate. I want to play you a clip. This is a clip of one of the parents from Sandy Hook, because you've talked about this at length now, Nicole Hockley. And I want to talk after this clip.

I want you to just listen to what she had to say to me recently on the show. He did his first broadcast, saying that he thought this was a false flag. When I was still in the firehouse, and I didn't even know if my child was alive or dead yet, he started off within two and a half hours of the shooting and has kept putting out video after video for year after year after year. And calling us all crisis actors, calling our children, you know, either that they were never, they were never killed or they were never alive in the first place. That were traitors, that were treasonous and that were government shills. It's been very difficult.

It's been easy to turn off some of it, but some of these people have been incredibly dangerous. And when he says, when he, when he stokes this anger in his base, this fear, and then incites them to action by saying, you know, we need to investigate this, you need to look into this more, they come at us. So part of it's just social media comments, which can be damaging, it's defaming, it's hurting your reputation people. I don't know if I'm walking around who thinks I'm real and who thinks I'm an actress. It's, it's damaging to my son's memory in terms of his life, his short six year old life.

It's damaging to my surviving son because I don't know what he's going to deal with going forward. But it's also scared the living daylights out of me. I sleep with weapons by my bedside. I've received death threats. I've received harassing calls and mail. I've had people send me pictures of dead children because they say, as a crisis actor, you have no idea what a dead child looks like. So let me send you this picture so you can see it.

This is stuff that has really not only just been distressing, it's disturbing. And in terms of security, you know, I'm just a mom. I'm just trying to look after my surviving son, run my organization and make some good in the world. I didn't choose to be part of this. Alex Jones chose to tell lies, knowing that they were lies and continuing to harbor that lie and make it happen for his own profit. What's your reaction to that woman who lost her son Dylan at Sandy Hook? Total garbage. Never said her name.

Only person's name I said was Robbie Parker. 30-something million views on YouTube. He was laughing. Everything suddenly started crying. Your response to that woman's incredibly powerful eloquence. So you're going to give me five seconds? How can your first response be total garbage? This is, well, I guess I can't do this interview. People have to go to infowars.com later and I'll respond to you.

You're not letting me talk. I never said her name. Under Connecticut and Texas law, you can't sue somebody for defamation if you never said their name. First of all, not everyone was suing Alex for defamation. A number of plaintiffs were suing for intentional infliction of emotional distress, which doesn't require him saying their name. But even beyond that, what a coward Alex is. Confronted with this person's experience and how his actions have affected her life so negatively

and continues to affect her child's life, all he can muster up is trying to bait peers into a fight and a weak-ass, meaningless legal technicality that he thinks gets him off the hook. This is detestable stuff. Garbage. Listen, I'm not arguing that anything that she said is true. I'm saying that because I didn't say her name, it's fine for me to do that to her. See, so I didn't say her name so I can go on about ruining her life for money. I don't understand why everybody has problem with me. Why is everyone mad at me?

Why is everyone mad at me? I went on an apology tour like this interview we're having right now. I'm so apologetic. I'm just a good guy. I'm just a regular guy. And Pierce, why won't you let me talk? I don't know why I'm not getting a li- Oh, it's almost like you think I'm gonna lie to you.

So anyway, understandably, Alex wants to change the subject. Yeah, that would sound right. I was on your show months and months after it happened and said it happened and said it was Prozac. I looked at both of the views and they clipped that out to attach themselves to me on air. I never talked about that woman. I didn't even know who she was. You said it was a hoax, Alex. You said it was a hoax. You said it was phoning as a $3 bill.

You said the entire thing is a giant hoax. The members of the White House have been running the fake bin Laden raid. People just know there's a lot of fraud going on. Here's what I'm gonna say to you, Pierce. Wait a second, Alex. Let me talk for five seconds. You sent me a list of topics. Let me finish.

You sent me a list of topics. I'm gonna come to those. And I said I'd come on and one of them is Sandy Hook. I'm on for an hour. Let's talk about the deboss group. Let's talk about the internet censorship. Let's talk about the vaccines. Let me talk about other topics.

Because they're attacked. They live off me. I didn't make money off Sandy Hook. They don't live off you. They've got $73 million from Remington. They live off Sandy Hook. I don't. OK.

Here's what I would say to you. Maybe one of the reasons that they have a problem with you and what you did is that you were saying on air things like your parents laughing. Ha ha ha. Then they walk over to the camera and go boo hoo hoo. And not just one, but a bunch of parents doing this. The photos of kids that are still alive, they say dead. I mean, they think we're so dumb.

These were parents. Yes, I told you. These were parents in the group of unbelievable trauma. Yeah, listen. And Madeleine Albright, Secretary of State of Clinton, was asked by Leslie Stahl in 16 minutes that Clinton tripled sanctions on Iraq to kill 2 million people, 500,000 children. She said it was a good thing to do.

She'd do it again. I didn't kill 500,000 children. Standard Alex wants to be judged by then. Hooray. He's less ethically condemnable than someone who killed half a million people. Woo. Congratulations. You made it under that limbo bar.

Yeah. I mean, if that's how we're going to start our justice system all over again with first we got to deal with everybody who's got over a half a million body count. It's going to be tough to get going. Sure. Well, Alex is being, you know, he's being really combative with the you're not letting me talk. Even his normal talking points of misrepresenting that he did in terms of Sandy Hook and those

things aren't working. And so now you have this kind of a dodge. I'm not as bad as Madeleine Albright. Yep. These are the kinds of things that if you're an interviewer, you just have to ignore. It's all distraction and the knee jerk shit that Alex throws out to try to pivot out of uncomfortable conversations. Anytime someone is asking about his culpability, he'll deny that he's double in for anything.

And then as things proceed and he can't really claim that anymore, he'll say something like he was right about Jussie Smollett or how he's not as bad as Madeleine Albright. All of it is meaningless shit that's just meant to distract from lines of questioning that he wants to avoid. It's very clear. That's the next stage of his sort of avoidance technique. Yeah. And that's why listening to peers be like, Alex, maybe here's what I'm in my head of

just like, what are you doing? Stop this. Yeah. I have a certain thought about what he's trying to do. Yeah. And I think that there may be an interesting reason to try this. Okay. I'll just lay it out a little bit.

Okay. I think he's trying to treat Alex like a baby. Well, yeah, obviously. I think that there is a like an attempt to not be super disrespectful. Right. But like treat him like the emotional maturity level that he gives off. Yeah. And just to see if there is like even a baseline of understanding.

Oh, do you? So you, oh, well, I mean, yeah, that's a good point. He wouldn't know that by treating Alex like a six year old bully of the type that he is, you wouldn't still be able to get through to him any sense of morality. Well, I think that there's a question of whether you could. I mean, I think this is a demonstration that you can't. Yeah. I mean, I would have assumed, but I think that maybe prior to it, you know, peers wouldn't

know. Is it, is it possible to interact with him as a baby? Yeah. I mean, is that a conversation they have where it's like, maybe, maybe what we need to do is imagine we're in the principal's office in third grade and we're just going to talk to him as though like he's literally an alien who's never heard of morality before of like, here's how people might feel and you should think about how they feel before you act trying to, trying to see if there's even a latch there.

Yeah. No, it's not. No, no. And so, you know, we've had these, these stages, the misrepresentation of Alex's actions, then the distraction tactics. And here is the third stage of that game. I understand that, but I also understand that. I mean, the,

All the kids dying from the poisoned shots. Let me just see. What about the CDC admitting it causes my. Here's the problem, Alex. The problem is you have. If I deserve to die for questioning a mass shooting, then what happens to the big companies that sold these poisoned shots that weren't approved and weren't safe? Here's my question.

What happens to them while you're, I get, I'm the worst guy in the world. So it appears. Hold on. Hold on. I'm the worst guy in the world, right? I didn't say that. You didn't say that. No one is saying that he's the worst person in the world or should die for what he did.

They just say that he should take responsibility for his actions. Anytime someone like Alex is being told that he needs to accept that his actions have consequences, some switch gets flipped or all of a sudden they're on death row. It's ridiculous. It's a straw man tactic, but in the case of Alex, I suspect it's also an expression of his narcissism. It would probably be threatening to his ego to recognize that at the end of the day, the plaintiffs in this case and most of the rest of the world just want him to be an adult and

take responsibility for his actions. And then everyone will move on to the best of their ability. I don't mean that that's a simple thing or anything, but in terms of his involvement. As a goal, the goal is Alex's shit. Let's not deal with this anymore. Yeah, the only reason any of this is dragged on at all is because of Alex's theatrics, which he needs to engage in that so the situation better conforms to his feelings of persecution. Accepting that he's not that important and no one is trying to crucify him makes his situation

kind of boring. It's just a liar with a huge audience who talked a bunch of shit that hurt people and then those hurt people sued him. It's not good for a narcissist to accept that your story isn't special. Nope. What you did is why things are happening. Yep. Grow up.

That's that's threatening to his sense of self. And so he has to over dramatize everything, which is the third phase of this. Oh, I should die because I questioned shooting. And it's ridiculous. It is go. It goes to everything that he is that like all of these stories are ultimately built around the idea that I am never a bad person. I am never wrong.

Ever. I am never hurting people. And if I do hurt people because it's not on purpose, I'm actually helping them. If they would only think about it from the way that I see things, all of these things, none of it can ever come back to Alex Jones did wrong. It can never be that he's infallible. Exactly. And he just can't handle any kind of concept of that.

Yep. We move along here and Alex lies about how he apologized for everything. Sure. He's very defensive. Tell me more about this. I apologized on Joe Rogan before I was sued. I apologized on dozens of shows when they brought this up in 2016. All right.

Here's my question. Here's my question. Then they went on the news and said I was currently sending people their houses. Where is the video of me saying go to their houses? Alex. Where is the video of me pissing on their graves? Alex. It's not true.

No. Alex. Alex. Let me. Let me respond. I want to just try and get inside your head for a moment and see whether you have ever fully comprehended. Nope.

The scale of what happened to these families. Stop now. See, that's where I think he's treating them. Yes. You get the sense that he's kind of just trying to be like, all right, let me even see if you understand the reality that you are involved in. Let's go lower and more granular. Yeah.

Let's get even real simple down there. We know from all of our engagement with this that that is a fool's errand. Yeah. But for someone like peers, maybe he's thinking this might be a way to actually help make sense of things to Alex. Sure. No, I mean. Or at very least piss him off because you're a phantalyzer.

It's borderline like, okay, let me show you some flashcards. All right. Can you see this face? Is it smiling or is it frowning? Is one of those good or is one of those bad? I want to talk about the Davos crew. I knew you would. God dammit.

Why won't you let me talk? Yeah. So to try and gauge if Alex understands this, Pierce reads off some of the experiences that the families have had. Okay. And Alex seems to think they're lying. There's some responses that he gives that make me suspect because it's the only conclusion that you can come to from the things he's saying that the victims are lying.

Great. This is what happened to some of the families. Okay. Erica Lafferty, whose mother was killed, has had to move five times since the shooting and avoids going to the grocery store because people tell her it was a... They didn't show any evidence. Let me just finish. The judges found me guilty.

I'll ask you a question. The judges found me guilty. That's illegal. Alex, I know. Let me just finish. She said he got scary and more graphic. Things would be mailed to her house that were threats of rape. The 500,000 dead Iraqis?

Jennifer Hensel and Jeremy Rickman, parents of 60-year-old Avile, who was killed, set up a foundation for their daughter. Soon after, email addresses attached to the foundation were flooded with messages saying Avile didn't exist. The Hensel and others were actors and questioned why money was being raised from a fake shooting. In 2019, Jeremy Rickman, Avile's father, killed himself. Hensel called his wife Jennifer to tell her people were at the cemetery where Avile was buried looking for evidence that her husband had actually died.

David Wheeler, the father of 60-year-old Ben Wheeler, who died at Sandy Hook, detailed two instances in which people actually showed up at his home demanding to see Ben, insisting he was alive. He said people also pointed to a student film he made in college as proof he was a crisis actor. Robbie and Alyssa Parker, and you did mention Robbie Parker, who I interviewed many times and felt a deep affinity with. And you said he was laughing after his poor little girl was killed.

But she said that Alyssa, his wife, said that the vicious comments on the Memorial Facebook page honoring her daughter were so terrifying she couldn't remember much of her daughter's funeral. Mark Bansden, the lawyer representing Sandy Hook families, said there were people threatening to kill her. You said one of your topics with Sandy Hook, here's the deal, they showed no proof of that in court. The judge didn't let me defend myself.

You just want to sit here and talk about Sandy Hook. I want to move on to other topics. You want to move on, I bet. Yeah. That makes sense. So the goal is to try and see if Alex understands the scale of the experience that these people have because of the actions of people inspired by a lot of theories that Alex was promoting and the people that were given their only platform through Alex.

And the answer is no. He thinks that maybe they're lying and maybe Erica Lafferty didn't have to move because they didn't prove it in court. So that should give any indication that should be like a perfect illustration of the extent to which Alex understands the reality of other people's experiences and how he affects them. He doesn't give a shit at all. Yeah, this goes back to that like, I apologize dozens of times kind of idea. And it's like, you can't apologize dozens of times.

And then this. You can apologize once. No, you can apologize dozens of times. You can say, I'm sorry dozens of times. Sure. Do you know what I mean? And that's kind of where I'm getting into this headspace of him because he says, I apologize dozens of times.

But if you actually did one time, we wouldn't be having this interview. It's not a sincere apology if this interview and the things that you're saying here and possibly come out of your mouth. It's not an apology. Yeah. So I'll agree with you there. Exactly. Yeah.

So, you know, do you understand Alex? No. Do you get it? No. My question is simply this. When you hear about the impact on these poor families whose children age six were blown to pieces in a school, when you hear about the impact, do you have any real regret or remorse about fueling this idea and hoaxed and they would talk at all?

He's already answered your question. Adam Lanza killed those children, not me. A Democratic Party PR firm looked at Trump, looked at me in 2016. It wasn't my question. Brought up Sandy Hook. It wasn't my question. Let me explain to you again. I'm going to say again, the media took what I said out of context.

They didn't. Years later, magnified it. Let me finish. To make a political hit point on me and on Trump and they blew it all up and then said I was doing it. They have no proof. I was sent by their houses. I didn't.

I have few times questioned it on air. I became super famous. He said it was a hoax and a thing to me. They've raised hundreds of millions in donations, 73 million from Remington. Now they're coming out to the First Amendment. It's insane. And I told you, I'd come on and briefly talk about Sandy Hook. You sent a whole list of topics.

Now I want you to be true to your word and not a deceptive person, Pierce. Yeah, don't be a liar, Pierce. Wow. I'm on, Pierce. That's so great. That's so great to just have Alex be Alex and not and because the answer to that because when Pierce is halfway through his question and Alex says something, you should have been like, you know what?

You have answered my question. Asked perfectly. Answered. You nailed it. Not really asked, but answered. You answered it thoroughly. Yeah. I get it.

And that is that you don't get it. You do not give a shit whatsoever. So Pierce just wants Alex to ask one more or answer the question in front of him before they move on. Good luck. Which is fair. Yeah. We have spent 24 minutes on Sandy Hook.

I want to move on to the Debo script. I'm just going to answer the question first. Before we move on, do you feel like when you hear these, when you hear these accounts of what happened to these families, do you feel a sense of personal regret and remorse that your actions on it, that your actions on it, I don't feel as much regret as a loss of people to think these people were actors and their kids didn't really die? Do you feel genuine remorse? You know, let me talk for any.

Ask the question. $500,000 Iraqi children starved to death. No, that's not the question. I did it on purpose and stuff. Oh, no. I feel way less, no. I legitimately questioned Sandy Hook and I stand by what I did. You said it was a phase.

You're going to hoax. I stand by what I did. You want me to finish? Attached themselves to me to raise money and to claim I'm doing things to them I didn't do to raise money and to try to take over my life. And no, I don't. I apologize before they sued me if I ever hurt anybody's feelings and I'm supposed to apologize forever and ever in some communist.

I just asked you, I just asked you whether you feel regret or remorse. Okay. Oh, wow. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. That's it. But that's him trying to get kicked off.

Yeah. That's annoying. I don't like him pulling the little I know I'm trying to get kicked off thing there at the end. It's some little bit trying to get kicked off and another like maybe I'm about to be kicked off. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly.

Or just like Alex recognizing that like I'm not engaging with this interview at all. This isn't nothing's happening here. I might as just yell plugs. Yeah. Totally couldn't hurt. Totally. No. So Alex is a piece of shit and apparently he does not feel bad at all about anything

that he did. Man. Oh boy. Cool. I just want to go back to the juries and just play them these clips afterwards and just ask them how they feel. Because like- I do probably feel all right.

I mean they gave a pretty good judgment. That's what I'm saying. Like how can you, I imagine there's got to be some sort of doubt somewhere in your mind if you render up $1.5 billion judgment. It's a lot. It's a doubt that I have just because I don't understand the number. It's too big. You know that kind of thing.

But then to listen to this and feel that like just I did good. You know like I am in the right. This unrepentant asshole who's basing his lack of remorse on a lie about what he did. Yes. That he's maybe convinced himself is reality. Which is just not. Yeah. I think anybody who would feel bad about whatever verdict should not feel bad.

No. They've got to be like weee. Yeah. He goes to a break and they come back and Pierce tries to honor Alex's wish about moving on and Alex goes back to San Diego. Yeah. That sounds about right. Well, welcome back.

Alex Jones is still with me. Alex, we'll move on to other things. Inexplicably. I linked to the Info Wars website tonight. You were leading several hours ago actually on the story which I addressed at the top of the show which is about this ludicrous idea that the word field is racist. I'm sure there are a number of things like that on which we would have complete agreement. Well, I also found a piece on your website near the top today which said the following.

Falsehoods have far reaching costs in livelihoods and lives. Lack of integrity and conflicts of interest have led to an unprecedented institutional false information pandemic. There's nothing that dispels false narratives better than personal inquiry and critical thinking. So, the next time convicted institutions cry woeful, wolfful, vicious, variant or whatever it is we need to think twice. There's a very strong worded piece there about the danger of falsehoods.

Do you agree with that? Well, let me answer your question and we'll finish up the Sandy Hook thing. I wish that I wasn't misled by some of those professors and people that thought that it was staged. It was a very small part of what I did. I tried to apologize. I tried to settle. I tried to make restitution and then they misrepresented.

When I was in the Texas trial, you can look at this, they had one of the mothers on who lost her son. And I went on my show that morning and taped it before I went to court and I said, I think she's real. I think her son died. I'd seen her testify the day before and I'm very sorry that Adam Lanza did this. And then she went on the stand and said, Jones attacked me and said, I'm an actress. It's all fake today.

And I walked over to her during the break and I said, watch my show from today. Your lawyers lied to you. And the next day she came up and cried and shook my hand and Scarlett Lewis said, oh my God, it's true. I saw you did say that. So there's a lot of manipulation here. Look, I didn't do this consciously. So Alex is lying about Scarlett Lewis and he said her name.

Get her name out of his fucking mouth. That might be defamatory. Yeah. Honestly. I add another. Yeah, absolutely. And also Alex is conveniently leaving off the part where he said that Neil Haslund was slow and all that other stuff that was fairly insulting and attacking.

And I think that if you're in the middle of a case like this, Alex is posting pictures of the judge on fire and what have you, all the coverage is attacking regardless of the things that he's saying. Hims, even if it's passive aggressively saying, I think you're wonderful. Totally. And all that. That's still kind of an attack. 100%.

Him bringing them up on the show is an attack. Yeah. So Alex, I mean, like for all of his, I want to move on stuff, decided to bring it back to the topic that he wanted to move along from. And that's because he didn't actually want to move along. It's just that Pierce wasn't going along with his bullshit. Yeah. He wasn't playing the game that Alex wanted to play.

So he wanted to move on. Yeah. Now that we have a reset, yeah, Alex can try and get the points that he wants to get out. Yeah. Out. And I mean, a lot of bullshit. Yeah. A lot of bullshit.

It is, it is this. It is Alex is going to try to apologize by saying, I'm sorry for some. I'm sorry that I'm so right and everyone lies about me so much, right? And then you'll challenge him on it. And eventually, if the conversation goes on any further, Alex will get to the point where he says, of course I don't give a shit about them. I hate them. They were mean to me and now I lost all my money and I hate them and I wish I could do

more bad things to them. They're trying to take over my life. Right. Exactly. So, so then he's like, oh, we got to get off this because I sound like a lunatic. And then once you get off it, he's like, okay, now I can try and be sorry and look like a human being. And then the cycle repeats.

Exactly. Alex is a love hate thing with peers. And then I kind of enjoyed this pierced. I don't agree with his premise, but he does try to explain the difference between the two of them. Okay. And listen, that's what I said, a love hate relationship with you and I sent you an audio message yesterday.

I watched the intro to your show and I was like, man, I wish I was as good as this guy. Oh my God. I covered the same stuff today, but you brought up them saying the word America is bad and the way you pointed out that it's not by itself, that it's a cult that wants to grow language. I was like, that guy's a master of really understanding this attack on our freedom. And I wish he knew that I was a real guy and I was learning the difference, Alex. Honestly, the difference between us, I would say is this.

I have always strived, not always successfully, but I've always strived in my career to put a premium on accuracy and without that, you have nothing. I would argue, and this is your chance to dispel this notion, that over the years you have deliberately and systematically used conspiracy theories, which I suspect you know are not true, to fuel interest in a large number of people who then go and buy your products, which you sell, which are a massive part of your business and have made you hundreds of millions of dollars. And I'm going to give you some examples collectively.

So let me just read them out and you can talk about, I'll give you a chance to respond when I read them. Sponsors. Yes. So the difference between them is peers strives for accuracy, misses the market times, believe their premise aside, but the difference with Alex is he knows he's lying and saying a bunch of interesting bullshit in order to sell his shit to the audience. Yep.

That is the difference. Yeah. So he said that he's going to give him some examples and so peers lists off some of Alex's dumb conspiracies and we might be at the beginning of the end. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I'm going to give you some examples collectively. So let me just read them out and you can talk about, I'll give you a chance to respond

when I read them. But you know, this is some of the stuff you said on air, right? In 2017, you had to apologize after promoting the infamous Pizza Gate fake story that a Washington pizza restaurant was the locale of a child's sex abuse ring run by Hillary Clinton and her campaign chairman. After 9-Eleven, you called it an inside job perpetrated by the US government. You said that chemicals in the water, which are put there by the government are turning frogs gay in a gay bomb.

You said Michelle Obama is a man in a 12 minute video. You analyze footage of photographs proving that Mrs. Obama has a penis. You said that Robert Mueller, the former FBI director who investigated Trump's Russia ties, which turned out to be fake story. Can we stop, Timmy? Hold on. Can we take each one of these in a minute? Hang on.

Was it demonic pedophile and said that's a demon I will take down? You can't? He's obviously not a pedophile. And so on. So here's my point. Oh, I'm about to get kicked off. Are you there? You keep flashing up your info.

You don't need to promote info wars. We all know about it. Listen, what I'm trying to tell you is, you made all these charges and I can't respond. Let me ask you the question I'm about to ask you. I read a piece on info wars all about the danger of falsehoods, right? The cost to livelihoods and lives, the problem with lack of integrity and a false information pandemic. Your website is promoting that thinking that it's wrong to have false information put

out there. And yet the guy behind the website making all the money is the guy saying all this stuff, which is obviously completely nonsense for four minutes. Can I talk now? You know it's nonsense. Don't you? You're scared. Let me talk.

Scared. Let me talk. Oh, man. You're too threatened by the truth that I'm going to bring. You know, there's nothing quite like absolute utter nonsense coming from a posh accent. You know, there's just something beautiful about it and like, I mean, it's just broadcast. Oh, I know the horn on this car that's coming at Alex is the like, this is all bullshit. Yes, you know that.

You know that. Come on. Yeah. And no, Alex does not believe all this is nonsense. So he gives some some critique of his own beliefs. Here we go. Defense. All right.

You know it's nonsense. Don't you? You're scared. Let me talk. Your chance to respond. No, I don't know it's nonsense. And if you took your time through all those points you just raised, I can back every one of them.

There are more than a thousand university studies from England to Australia to South Africa to Mexico to Austin, Texas, that atrazine is literally making male frogs gay. They don't want to have sex with female frogs and their populations are plummeting and even becoming extinct. Boom. Then 9 11. I don't think radical Islam doesn't exist. There were criminal elements in our government that it came out, even in the hearings that

stood down and did nothing. So you rattle off 9 11 was not an inside job. Michelle Obama is not a man. Robert Mueller is not a demonic pedophile. Let me talk about Michelle Obama. Hillary Clinton. These are all ridiculous lies. Alex, you're not a stupid man again.

You're not. I'm going to talk over you then. You know these things. Let me talk. I'm going to talk over you. Let me talk. Just exhausting. Yeah.

Stop it. Yeah. Stop it. So Alex really wants to talk about the Michelle Obama one now that they've been reminded of this. Yeah. The thing with Atrazine is more complicated than Alex presents it. It's certainly not a gay bomb.

It's definitely not something that you would be enough for you to go. Boom. Yeah. All frogs are gay now. Hey. Yeah. That's that's no backdrop moment. He thinks he dunked on the 9 11 one.

Yeah. But yeah. All of this is not good. So here is his defense of the Michelle Obama stuff. Okay. And I did have to bleep out a tea slur that he throws out. But this defense is not good. Let me talk.

It was that is a transcript you have. I was playing a clip of Joan Rivers two months before she died with fire exploding out of her mouth and a surgery. She said Michelle Obama is a everybody knows that we already have a gay president. And I was quoting what she said and I was questioning what people were saying. That's Joan Rivers. Now let's move on. What was the other one?

What was the other one you were saying? Robert Muller is a demonic pedophile beat Robert Muller. Okay. Let's talk about pizza game. Oh yeah. Okay. Yeah. I can't defend that one.

I got nothing on this one. Pass. Pass. Let's go to the money round. Come on now. This is not the venue where I can defend my rampant demonic pedophile accusations. I'm afraid you have follow up questions and want definitions and I am not here for that.

Let's go to pizza. Sir, I believe we have found common ground on pizza game in the past. So yeah, that Joan Rivers joke that she made that wasn't made in surgery. That was when she was being interviewed on the street. Yeah. Alex has pretended that it was in surgery because he wants to make it seem more like she was killed for revealing a secret or or something and that's that's nonsense. Also just just awful.

Just a real piece of shit. But anyway, Pierce to his somewhat credit is like, I don't think you believe any of this. Yeah. This is all. I agree. Ridiculous shit. I didn't regenerate pizza game.

It was in the WikiLeaks documents. A whole bunch of Alistair Crowley, Satan. You apologize because you promoted that conspiracy theory too. No. Here's my point, Alex. I don't think you really believe any of these things. I think you realized early on in your life that there was a lot of money to be made from fueling conspiracy theories.

And you have made a ton of money from it. I said Jeffrey Epstein 13 years ago, ran an island in the Caribbean with kidnap children. I said the Nextium Cult was branding people five years before it broke. No. I had the sources. What? I had the guts. I lost viewers saying Sandy Hook might have been staged.

I lost some of my reporters. That is not true. What you're saying. I don't sit there and think of a story. I'm going to say I've got too many stories here. Too many stories. You've got stackies. You've got stackies.

Yeah. It's still absent proof of his claims about reporting on Jeffrey Epstein years and years back and absent any proof of the Nextium. Yeah. I don't provide some citations on that. I believe if his claim is that he believed at some point in time that there was a cult of with people who were in Hollywood at the time branding people, I would guarantee that he said that about everybody every day for the past 20 years or people kidnapping folks

to Island. Totally. Children being taken to Island. Sure. That's Satanic Panic offshoots. Ted Gonderson nonsense. You bet. Absolutely.

Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, this trying to repackage that is this is not shameful. But I think I think that there's a I can get why peers would want to confront like this. Yeah. Like you don't believe this because I don't think a lot of folks have been able to ask that or present that to Alex in a setting where he's presumably supposed to answer.

Yeah. Where he hasn't run away already. Yeah. Yeah. And no, you get your answer. He does believe this stuff, but I also don't believe that. I don't believe that either. Yeah.

So anyway, it is it is that must be like the other like there has to be some desire for his catharsis for his own personal catharsis of just like, yeah, I'm going to say to Alex to his face. I don't think you believe that. Please just tell me that you do so we can move on with our lives or because I just wanted to say it to you. Yeah. I'm going to I'm just going to make peace with whatever this weird nonsense we've had

between us. Yes. Yeah. So yeah, beyond just the like, you don't really believe this appears also as a point of like, you're smart enough to understand that you like, you know how to cover a story right. And you're not right. It's my it's my question for you.

Believe it. You are a smart enough person from interviews I've seen of you with Joe Rogan for three hours. You're more than smart enough to do a show where you genuinely examine stories like Jussie Smollett and you ask the right questions as a journalist would do. But I don't think you are a journalist and you're not a trained journalist, but you don't come at it like a journalist. You come at it as a commercial operator who's made a fortune from fueling conspiracy theories

which are ludicrous. And to a point, you've said that five times, Piers, you had me here. Let me respond to each lie you spew. Let me finish. I just I want to yell off things you say. I don't want to wait for the question. Yeah. Okay.

In Alex's defense, Piers asked questions like an asshole. They're long. I think that might be the British style of interview. Sure. Sure. I understand. But he's asking questions with the clear idea that everybody already knows the answer to those questions.

So if you're going to do that British style of interview, I know you're going to do that and you're going to take so long about it. Like I'm on Alex's team as far as like, I would answer the questions halfway into his question. You know, like I get it. I get what you're trying to ask. This is taking forever. Well, but see, you think you can mind read.

Maybe he's going to swerve at the end with the question, maybe he's getting at a different point than you think. Okay. If he was, if he was interviewing me, perhaps that is possible. But if it's Alex, we all know where this is going to go. True. And it does. And it does.

So Piers is saying like, Hey, you're making money off this. You're a commercial operator. I don't think you're reporting on stories and you're smart enough to understand what it means to cover a story and you're choosing not to do that. And Alex is like, fuck you, man. I won't apologize for making money. There you go. Let me respond to each lie you spew.

Let me finish. Your goal is to spew lies. Let me finish. I'm going to tell you again, I'm going to tell you again, I'm not against capitalism and the people earn money normally. And actually that's great. If I sell 70 million dollars of food and supplements and books and films and we make $20 million off that and I pay my career and my bandwidth and pay myself a couple million dollars a year,

that is accurate. But the idea that I have billions of dollars and the idea that I did, I don't think you made billions of dollars. I think you've made several hundred million dollars and some of the products included very false claims about diet supplements and toothpaste, which could be used to fight coronavirus. And you were sent to cease and desist. No, all I said is, is that silver on contact kills all viruses just like sunlight.

And I said vitamin D3 is an antiviral and vitamin C is and it's a fact. And I also said, peers, that the studies they'd already done with mRNA vaccine showed they didn't protect you and they erased your immune system and you've had to apologize. Well, actually, no, no, no, no, just to clarify, they do protect you from coronavirus. The difference was a year into the pandemic. It was it emerged that the initial feeling that if you had the vaccine, you couldn't transmit it turned out to be wrong. But they do.

Any real vaccine. They do protect you. And in fact, millions of people, millions of people are alive today because you're going to stand in Nuremberg to see this is where Alex wanted to get to. The I'm going to deport you back to the UK for being against gun laws. The the 1776 will commence again. You were making me feel real bad. But now I get to call you a genocider.

You will stand at Nuremberg to is the that's where Alex is like, ah, yeah. There's that's the feeling and the moment that he had in 2013 is like there's a there's a kernel of that here. It's definitely not as gratifying. No, no, no, and and it's not on CNN. And here's Morgan is not who he was 10 years ago. So it's not maybe not as big a deal. And you might even be forgiven for not knowing that this happened.

About 100% did not. Most people probably have no idea. So it's not the same rush that Alex got 10 years ago. But there is still something nice about being able to say you will stand at Nuremberg to. Here's my problem. Here's my problem. Right. My problem is that throughout this interview, it appears that the only two people who got

what they wanted are in the interview and the rest of us are told to fuck off. Well, most people weren't watching. So there's that. You know, that's a good point. That's a good point. You narcissists get what they want from each other in a forest. You know what, you are not wrong. Does anyone hear the tree fall if if solipsists have sex?

Are they also masturbating is the question. So the the the other thing there, too, is Alex should not be in favor of Nuremberg to because that kind of requires a world government. Yeah. But a lot of the anti like New World Order types are very against Nuremberg because of the the sort of global authority that's required for a world court. Alex should know that if he cared at all about his principles. Anyway, he started yelling and it feels good.

Yeah. So I assume he's finally gotten over all of that. I'm supposed to feel bad about all these things that I did or didn't do. I'll let you decide. OK. You're going to stand in Nuremberg to all. Did you get money from Big Pharma? Oh, I didn't get any money.

Other media people are going to say, yeah. Listen, the vaccines. What did you get money? The back. You get money. I see you in the pushing pros. Millions of lies. However, let's take a short break.

No, it's not. With our final segment. It doesn't. I don't want to ask you one last question. You're going down. You're going down. You talked over info wars.com. Sorry.

Going out to break. Yeah. So you did another little plug. Did another little plug, of course. Oh, my God. So they come back and Piers has another topic that he wants to broach with Alex. And that is, of course, January 6th.

Naturally. Pro or against. Yay or nay. So I just have one clip of that. It's just basically the entirety of anything that means anything. OK. Welcome back to my final segment with Alex Jones.

Alex, on January 6th, the infamous January 6th, you stood there riling the crowds up by saying, we declare 1776 against the New World Order. We need to understand we're under attack. We need to understand this is 21st century warfare and getting a war footing. And within several hours, that's exactly what thousands of people did.

They went down from hearing you say that and Donald Trump saying what he said. And they launched an unprecedented attack on the capital, the very center of democracy in America. Do you regret now what you said a couple hundred years ago? No, I don't. I'd had rallies with over a million people, a half million people.

Before that, it's an information war. infowars.com. We're in an information war. We were there to have a 10 day investigation of the Constitution. The Democrats. What appears before? Look at what was happening.

That's the new line. And then, Piers, I tried to stop people and did keep thousands from going into the capital. And I've been cleared in the January 6th. Look at the Reuters article. Just to be clear, do you denounce those who use violence that day? Yes, I denounce Ray Epps telling the congressional committee

that he orchestrated the attack. And I tried to stop the provocateurs in that operation from breaking in. We had a million people there. They tricked 1,000 or so to go in. A few hundred provocateurs broke through the police, similar to what we're seeing in Brazil. And so I'm on record there that day telling people,

don't go in the building and trying to stop it. When I say 1776, I'm saying try to take our guns. 1776, try to take our free speech. 1776, it means political rebellion. It means an awakening. It means saying no. That's not what it means. No, it means something very specific.

That's why it's 1776, the thing that you're saying. I think if I were doing an interview, I would probably just leave January 6th alone as it relates to Alex. I think that that shit is too complicated. He's never going to give you a straight answer on stuff. And there is enough of an optical thing where he was telling people not to fight,

not to go in and stuff. And so that is enough for him to hang his hat on and just leave it alone. It's not worth interviewing him about it. The information that he has that would be very interesting, he can never tell you. Or he may not know. Well, I mean, the stuff he does know with him

and all the oath keepers and all of that stuff, I would be interested in what he knows, whether it's what I think it should be or not, what extent of is he involved or anything. I think it's a very interesting chance that he doesn't know. Totally, a lot of that stuff. What I'm interested in, though, is what he did know.

That's still interesting. It would still be interesting to find that out, no matter what it was in terms of how high up or at point. And my point is whatever that is, you're saying that it's stuff he would never say. And that might be true, but I'm saying he might not know what he knows. He doesn't. Well, that's fair.

Yeah, that's fair. And you'll never get a straight answer out of him anyway. That's the most important part. Some of it's not even being like cagey and like I don't want to answer this. It's just never going to get an answer. No, nope. So also all that other stuff is bullshit that he said.

Yeah, I don't even know why we bother. I read the transcript of that interview with Ray Epps and this is a rank mischaracterization of his texts. Come on now. So this is gross. This clip's bad. Has one of the lessons that you've learned from this lawsuit with the Sandy Hook families,

has one of the lessons been that actually truth matters? And do you know that? Do you believe now that you need to focus on saying things which are true because consequences can be very serious? Oh my god. You keep trying to act like it's a big part of what I've covered or that I've made mistakes on purpose.

The whole currency I operate in is a truth. And we're accurate 95% of the time. I made big mistakes. And when I make mistakes, we absolutely admit to it. I think you've done that yourself sometime. So here's the old, maybe in 10 years you're still alive. I'm alive. I'm back on.

You'll say, will you apologize now? I apologize if I caused any pain. I've already done it. It only makes them more rabid and attack more and misrepresent. I went on my show during the trial. And it's not an apology now, is it? You're real.

I'm so sorry for your child. They went on the stand and said, I attacked them that day. That's all on record. And so the problem is, the reason. The problem is the damage. This is a political movement. Alex, the problem is the damage. They've raised hundreds of millions of dollars

off their dead kids. The problem is you did make millions of dollars from their dead kids. It's one of the reasons Elon Musk. I did not. It's one of the reasons. He made no, no, there was no marketing. It's the reason.

You know what I make millions of dollars off of? It's the reason. My number one book on the world selling stage. Right, the reason Elon Musk has refused to let you back on Twitter is he won't let people on who trade off dead children. That's exactly what you did. So Madeleine Albright kills $500,000

since she did it on purpose. I'm asking about you, not Madeleine Albright. Alex Jones questions of mass shooting. I get it. I'm the worst guy in the world. I didn't say that. So those are dying corporate media is good. I didn't say that.

Alex Jones is bad, but here's the thing. Infowars.com lives. People can come to my show every day, 11 a.m. Central, and they can hear what I'm actually saying, peers. Oh my God. Versus what you're trying to put in my mouth. I see all I'm putting into your mouth are things that have come out of your mouth.

So now when I was listening to the clip, I found it really objectionable that he said they made millions of dollars off their dead kids. And because I think in the past, Alex has made this kind of expression about the like law firms and stuff, but he's generally pretty careful

not to say it about the parents. He's saying it about the parents. And I wanted to play that just so you can hear, I mean, he's clearly saying their kids. Yep. Problem is the damage. This is a political movement. They've raised hundreds of millions of dollars

off their dead kids. He's clearly talking about the parents here. Yep. And in combination with, you know, the stuff he said about Scarlett Lewis and the fact that when he's saying, he said in that clip, he said, they become more rabid. You know, I said this stuff.

I said, I apologize and I was nice. And then that day they attacked me on the same, that's clearly harkening back to what he said about Miss Lewis earlier. Yep. Like this is, I don't know. I feel like he might fuck around. This is legally actionable.

It feels like it could be. I mean, this, beyond what that is just be, you know, like this is 100% a continuation of the things that he's. Yeah. And it's morally. It's horrific. Culpable. It's absent morals.

It's just, you're a pile of shit. Yeah. You act this way. No, it is like, it is one of those things though where I wish if everybody had all of the awareness of like having gone through the trial, having gone through everything, having studied all of this stuff.

We are at a point now where this man needs to be stopped. He cannot, it's can't be money. It's, he's just, you're not allowed to be on TV. You're not allowed to be on the radio. That can't happen because there's no other way to stop him. Yeah. It's not going to happen the way, every other way that we have ever had

has been able to stop someone at least eventually. Rhea, I think it's dangerous to think along those lines because then you kind of bring into people's minds the possibility that what you're saying is he needs to be killed or something. And that's obviously not the case. Okay. Well, obviously no.

No. Right. But you know, clarification is helpful. But what I'm saying is I think you're right in some sense, but the supply side is impossible to deal with. And that's why I think the demand side is more of a fruitful place to try and make inroads. Sure.

Like he is the supplier of this stuff and you cannot get him to stop. He will not stop. He claims he has 15 giant offers. That's not true, but he could, you know, still do a podcast or whatever. He's never going to retire to a farm like he pretends to want to.

Sure, sure, sure. That's not going to happen. And so the best you can really do is create as much of an awareness about who he actually is and the fact that he is scamming his audience and all this is bullshit. And hopefully that has the effect of diminishing

whatever influence he has. That's about the hope you can have there. I agree with you on that. I agree with you. Full stop. I do think that Alex is so specific and unique in this circumstance that it warrants a specific and unique intervention.

Well, but I think a 1.5 billion dollar judgment is pretty specific and unique. Yeah, it would be if afterwards, Alex wasn't on TV with Piers Morgan committing the same crimes at them. And nobody's stopping him from doing that. True. You know what I'm saying?

A lot of the sort of admin stuff after the fact of the verdict is still ongoing. Sure. And so we're in an illusion of no consequence right now while a lot of that stuff is still in motion. How about this? Let me piggyback onto the demand and I'm going to add into the demand

people like Piers Morgan. They are part of the problem. Yeah, I think so. You should not have Alex on here on your show. I agree. To continue to commit crimes. And you did. I agree.

You did it on purpose. I agree in some sense. I think that a lot of the time platforming Alex, obviously all the time, stupid, no point. I think often it can be a little bit dangerous in as much as like having him on with Rogan being cool and bros and stuff. Sure.

That portrays Alex in a light that is fraudulent and makes him more appealing to people who maybe otherwise wouldn't be drawn towards his brand of fundamentalist ass weird demonology. Sure. Same thing with the Glenn Greenwald interview. This is presenting him as somebody who should be taken seriously.

The documentary itself is a fraud on his positions and who he is. There's a lot of that. And I think that those people are definitely more culpable in the way that you're describing. With Piers, I think, first of all, they have a history with each other. Second, I don't think that this interview in any way

is gonna make Alex look cool. And I don't think that the reach that Piers may have, I don't know if it's going to introduce Alex to an audience that is likely to be drawn into his shit. Right. And the final point, I think Piers has a reason he thinks he's doing this. Whether or not it's worthwhile,

whether or not it's a good idea, I do think that there's something he's trying to get to in a way that a lot of other interviews maybe don't have a point. This doesn't have a point, but Piers thinks it has a point and therefore I can understand why he's doing it. Right.

And I agree with you because from the thought process that I understand where you're coming from and I agree with what you're saying, what I'm adding into this is my problem. And that is that Alex has committed a crime. If we're going to call getting a $1.5 billion judgment against something, a crime or a punishment or something along those lines, right?

Then he can't go onto a show and do it more. Right. That's part of what has to be stopped. And I mean, and I'm not saying that Alex himself can't go on Piers Morgan's show. But he can't control himself. Exactly. So that's the problem.

It is that he is committing a crime when he goes on Piers Morgan's show and does that. Blaming Piers for that is a little bit tough. I'm not blaming Piers for that. Well, you were saying blaming him for having him on. If he's part, if the demand is the issue, then you can't have Alex on because you're having Alex on because you know he's going to commit a crime.

You're hiring somebody to come commit a crime on your show because you want ratings. Not necessarily. Because we have an understanding of Alex that maybe is higher than Piers. Exactly. He may not know that. He may just think, hey, Alex and I

are going to yell at each other. Totally. So not think that Alex is going to come on and lie about the families, lie about literally everything, and then say that the families are making millions off their dead kids. Like he, Piers probably didn't expect that level of thing. And maybe we would expect something maybe not.

I would have expected something. I don't know if I would have gone that far. But you expect so Calis than even I was. Saying that the family member's story is garbage. You wouldn't expect that. You expect something, but maybe not that. And I think he's doing his, I hate to say this because I don't like Piers more than I know.

I think he's doing the best he can with what is happening. And I don't disagree with you. I'm not injecting any sort of like moral judgment on character here. It's not, I'm not saying that Piers is bad for having Alex on or anything along those lines. I'm saying that if you committed, if we call something a crime,

if we call something you did worth being punished by $1.5 billion, that means that we are doing it to stop you from doing that crime. Okay, now regardless of whether or not it has happened yet, is his punishment has occurred yet. The point is that the stopping should have occurred. And that's what needs to happen. So if that means, if that means just like,

hey, listen, we've got one person who watches everything Alex goes on. And if he says the name of Sandy Hook or the name of a family member or even obliquely references it, he gets an extra $500 million added to his judgment. If that's the way that we wanna do it, that's fine. But that's the crime that needs to be stopped.

And that's what he's doing, you know? Man, he's a tough person to punish. He's stubborn. He's figured out that the part of our punishment system relies on people actually believing existence is a real. That other humans exist, I guess, I don't know. So we have one last clip here. And it's how things end.

And it ends about how you'd expect two men yelling over each other. I see all I'm putting into your mouth are things that have come out of your mouth. No, you don't have footage of me saying go harass them at their houses. You don't have footage of me saying this on their graves. I cover the Sandy Hook tragedy.

You don't have any of that. All I know is for all your posture, when those poor families were going through the most excruciating pain in their lives, you took a massive amount of fuel and you poured it on the bonfire of their pain. What about the devil's crib? What about the neural order?

You deliberately pack up lies designed to make the families of Sandy Hook. Both of you are an adult man. This is embarrassing. And all your shouting and all your brother is utterly contemptible. And we both... You're never going to get our first amendment.

And I'm glad you had to move back to England to live under your Islamic takeover. And when they're arresting people, we're being a transgenderism. You don't want freedom, Pierce. You're losing the plot, so now I have to say goodbye. But it's been good to catch up. You lied. You said we'd come on.

I appreciate it. Don't be a liar. Alex Jones, nothing's really changed. In the last 10 years or so, he carried on exploiting particularly the families of Sandy Hook from massive personal financial gain. He systematically tells conspiracy theories that shine no. He knows them all true. And he does it because it makes him tons of money.

And he's got to wait with it until now. Yeah, so, I mean, good wrap up there. Nothing's changed. Nope. Hey, everybody. Guy's still an asshole. Can we get this hour back? Anybody who want to give me an hour back?

I think there is a debate to be had about whether or not you air that. You know? Like, if... If... That's a good question. He did put like a beginning and end on this, you know, where he said, well, nothing's changed. Yeah.

So clearly this was pre-recorded in some way before broadcast. And if that's the case, then maybe you do it. If your conclusion is gonna be, well, still a piece of shit, maybe you shelve it. Maybe you just say like, eh, that interview was what it was. It does not need to come out. But then you run the risk of Alex having recorded it himself or something

and then putting it out. Of course, they're silencing me and doing the whole thing. But this maybe is why you just never engage with him to begin with. Seems pretty reasonable. Much like the beginning of or the end of war games. The only way to win. It's unfortunate.

It is so unfortunate. But here's the way that this podcast has taught me you should deal with Alex Jones. Either don't deal with him or do an absurd amount of dealing with him. Deal with him on a level that no human being could be conceived of being dealt with. Right.

In the history of time. Yeah, yeah. As you might imagine, I'm fairly attracted to extremes. Yeah. No half measures. No half measures with Alex. Nope. Nope.

So yeah, we come to the end of this and boy. Lots changed in 10 years. Almost nothing. Almost nothing. So I think that Alex maybe thought that he was going to have another like 1776 will commence again a moment and like he'd be able to get another catchphrase and like.

Get a good relief at least. Some of that feeling. I'm not sure. I'm not sure that this was what he needed. Maybe it's always fun to yell at Pierce Morgan. It is. I get that. Yeah.

But I got to assume that he felt a little bit maybe not. Maybe not empty, but not as full as he wanted to be. I mean, you know, it's not the first time I've said this. It's not. But it won't be the last. It feels like Alex might have been unprepared for this interview. I think I think that Pierce might have been too.

I agree with that. I was wrestling with this as I was listening to it, though. Like if he was more prepared, he would be able to like be able to tell like all this is bullshit. This is a lie. Yeah. But also a lot of that stuff is stuff you just got to ignore if you're interviewing him.

Yeah. So maybe Pierce was aware that a lot of the stuff was lies. But if you get down into the weeds with a ton of stuff while talking to him, you will lose the plot. Yeah. And and his distraction games will be able to be more effective. So ignoring a ton of stuff and just letting it sit there, maybe isn't a sign of unpreparedness as much as it is

like I don't even care. I'm not going to chase this down. I mean, we we we've got I suppose the the best example of an interview with Alex you can have and it's a deposition and it's legally enforced. And even then he still does not answer your questions. True. So so it's like even in the most ideal circumstances

where the law compels him to answer honestly, he still will not. Yeah. There's no point in having an interview. No, unless unless you have an ulterior motive. Yeah. And I think as best as I can tell the ulterior motive here might have been some kind of ratings.

But I don't know what kind of ratings you're expecting having an interview with Alex at this point. But then the other ulterior motive could have just been satisfying the curiosity. Do you understand how serious this is for people? I could see that. I could really see that being the case. And if that's the case, then he got his answer, which is no.

Well, yeah, if you do, you don't care. Yes, you probably don't. And if you do, you don't care. And you'll never accept. Yeah, if you understand, you'll never accept the reality of the severity of the situation. So it's kind of a moot point. Right.

The answer to Pierce's question is Pierce, you're asking the wrong question. Right. This question has no meaning to me. Yeah. This is like asking me if I prefer star-flavored ice cream. I've never tasted a star. I don't know.

Ooh, I have this Coke, a space-flavored Coke. Yeah, what's your favorite type of morality? I've never heard of any of them. Yeah. So disappointing. But hey, what a fun way to go off the beaten path of. Yeah, that's a prediction for 2023 I was not imagining. Pierce Morgan popping back up.

Yep, yep. Don't think Alex is going to be chasing him down and begging to have another interview. This one did not go the way he wanted it to. That's the trick. Anyway, we'll be back, Jordan, with another episode. Oh, indeed we will. On Wednesday.

And also Wednesday will be when those tickets go on sale. It's true. So check for that. But until then, we have a website. Indeed we do. It's KnowledgeFight.com. Yep, we are also on Twitter. We are on Twitter.

It's at knowledge underscore fights. Yes, I'm Neo. I'm Leo. I'm DZX Clark. But I'm also Dan. And it's important to remember that. Dan's really funny in ways. And now here comes the sex robots.

Andy and Kansas, you're on the air. Thanks for holding. Hello, Alex. I'm a first-time caller. I'm a huge fan. I love your work. I love you.