Knowledge Fight - #768: Formulaic Objections Part 14

Episode Date: January 18, 2023

Today, Dan and Jordan discuss an early deposition in the Texas case against Alex Jones. This installment features a complicated and confusing appearance by Rob Jacobson, the Infowars resident documentary filmmaker who was mocked for warning against covering Sandy Hook. Tickets for our March 2 show in Milwaukee are on sale at 10 AM Central

I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys saying we are the bad guys knowledge everybody welcome back to knowledge right out there I'm Jordan we're gonna do it sit around worship at the altar of Celine and talk a little bit about Alex Jones oh indeed we are Dan Jordan Jordan quick question for you what's up what's your right spot today buddy my bright spot today is actually a very recent bright spot and that is right before we started recording I started okay all right okay all right to will Smith's welcome to Miami and you were freaking out you freaked out a little bit your response was pretty pretty makes me

feel deeply uncomfortable well I and I realized that maybe there's something that people don't know about me then that is that I know all the lyrics to a number of will Smith songs that is true aha you have demonstrated that on multiple occasions yeah and I want the audience to know regardless of drunk or sober true true wild wild west in particular that one I go any time yeah right now just how to beat nope wild wild west desperado rough ride I don't you don't want nada none of this six gun and this brother running this soldier look it's like I told you all right all right

okay you should be out of that dress when she beat Jim West rough next go check the law to buy to watch a step all right holding your side so you're proud don't let your lips this is a problem I'm having a boss okay from the start of this run at the game James West tape in the west remember the name yeah I could do I could go hours yes hours and the men in black true maybe not men in black too I think you did a song on that did you do the soundtrack for yeah which was it just here comes the men in black again you know what ironically I don't think I could I don't think I know all the words

to Big Willie style that's not jiggie with it I guess Big Willie style was the name of the album yeah yeah that's fine getting to get jiggy with it getting jiggy with it as I like to say hi no no no no no no no not that good of a song get who I'm gonna throw that out there on your market not memorable you know I go psycho with but you don't hit just can't quit gotta get jiggy with it that's it honey honey come right and why got a product like saying that we have four eclipse today it's gonna be a short show boy that was just my bright spot I like annoying you with stuff like that so anyway would you love it my bright spot

is something that I mean obviously what good turn deserves another my friend so my bright spot is the Australian open all right so what's with the highlights of this this year open well it's gonna be a tough one first off Curios had to drop out with a knee injury oh no sucks this was his best shot to win his own Australian open that would have been amazing that would have been cool not gonna happen Rafa Rafa's Rafa's coming in off a bad stretch uh-huh he's he's lost six of his last eight oh no right and he won his first round match but you don't know if that means anything how's Samper's looking

oh Samper's is looking great he's about 70 years old now and his arm hair has established a colony on other people's arms my money's on Agassi Agassi's good his his skull is now actually visible you know he used to have a he used to glue a wig on his head sure then he got rid of that and he was bald and now it's all come back to haunt him and his exposed skull is there I don't have any other old tennis references maybe like John McEnroe John McEnroe and still doing great yeah number three C he's he's lost three of his feet to diabetes that's how bad it is he got two foot transplant so you said Rafa's not in it no Rafa is in

it oh so here he goes has dropped out and this is the Jokovic is back this year because the Vax man because the baby just got rid of him yeah the COVID is still an issue yeah vaccine still very important but I mean come on it was a year ago whatever yeah as much press this year well I'm excited for you to enjoy that it'll be great I hope you have a great time yeah watching people go bong oh old man Andy Murray he won he won against young man Barrettini whoa Barrettini Barrettini hot Italian playing tennis you got to love it wait so who's your favorite to win who's my favorite yeah who's most likely to win

probably Jokovic or Medvedev the Russian president no former Russian president thank you no Dmitry Medvedev is a very very good tennis player do you say Andy Murray Andy Murray old man Andy Murray wait who is the young guy Mateo Barrettini Mateo Barrettini yeah for some reason I thought like it was it was Andy Murray married to somebody famous yeah Andy Murray is the Scottish tennis player he's knighted no but wasn't it was he married to somebody famous like a pop star I don't know who anyone is married to that is the one thing about pop culture I have never known about anyone mm every time somebody's like you

know he's married to him like that's amazing and I don't remember I don't know if it's him or I'm thinking of some other person but I feel like you might have been married to like some pop I don't anyway enjoy George yes thanks so today we have four clips okay just kidding right so Jordan even episode to do today and we are going to be having another deposition so we're gonna be talking about the deposition in the Lewis case okay the Texas case with Rob Jacobson all right interesting character Rob Jacobson he is he's a cat that's for sure he is a fella who worked at Info Wars from 2004 to 2017 he was

there a long long time yeah and was responsible for such hits his end game great the Obama deception top of the marks well there was kind of more of his his bread and butter was a bit more of the like video production and the documentary side of stuff and he sense leaving Info Wars by being fired he filed an EEOC complaint against Info Wars alleging anti-semitic treatment that he endured on on from other employees and from Alex I mean that's not hard that's not a hard jump to make no notably he has alleged and I certainly believe this is true that Rob do and Owen Troyer would refer to him as

the resident Jew and among among other things that were made a hostile work in fire and tracks so since he's left he has also taken on a bit of a anti-Alex posture let's say yeah he appears in like various documentaries that will be made on on CNN I guess yeah I don't know he's the one of the people you go to whenever you want to have interviews with past Alex employees he's willing to talk right right those those folks whereas maybe a jacari Jackson isn't going to show up for the one that part of his life no to be analyzed and I think that there is a part of it that Rob feels a desire for some penance and I

can I can understand that on some level but I also find it uncompelling in many ways so we're gonna go through this deposition but it's challenging a little bit because of that dynamic that I do feel like he is probably in many ways sincerely guilty about what he was involved in sure to the extent that it relates to Sandy Hook now I don't see a ton of examination of the larger catalog of his work that he did sure and how very similar it is to the coverage of Sandy Hook and how he does not seem to have any necessarily a problem with like his end game that's a bit that's a problem so that's tough for me and you

know we'll wrestle with it as we go along but before we do let's say hello to some new wonks that's a great idea so first all right and here it is guys and all it's fine glory thank you so much you are now a policy wonk I'm a policy wonk thank you very much next Napoleon Bonafart thank you so much you are now policy wonk I'm a policy wonk thank you very much next the former Chicagoan who likes rants about jewel and skilling thank you so much you are now a policy wonk I'm a policy wonk thank you very much that's not a real former Chicagoan because they would want rants about the jewels where's Danny Callis when you

need him my guinea pig sing when Jordan laughs but they no longer run from Alex Jones's voice so your show is one for two in fostering healthy rodent behaviors four stars thank you so much you're now a policy wonk I'm a policy wonk thank you very much thank you next married moms need abortions too thank you so much you're now a policy wonk I'm a policy wonk thank you very much next Trudy the Tasmanian tiny titty baby thank you so much you're now a policy wonk I'm a policy wonk thank you very much and Robert Evans sent me love Becca from New Zealand thank you so much you are now a policy wonk I'm a policy

wonk thank you very much now yeah the first couple clips are a bit long and the reason for that is there is chaos at the beginning of this deposition Mark Bankston is taking the deposition and he begins trying to just say please introduce yourself good luck and then Alex's lawyer Enoch he comes in and gets out of line and it's very hard to present this in small chunks so I have about a five minute clip here and I think it needs to be presented as a whole thing in order to really get the feeling of this okay and how there's an ickiness to it oh boy and a discomfort and you can see it in Rob's face can I ask a

quick question yeah Alex's lawyer and does Rob also have a lawyer Rob does not have a lawyer Rob doesn't have a lawyer is unrepresented right he there's a the judge has signed off on this deposition taking place and that Mark can ask questions from on behalf of the plaintiffs but he is not representing Rob and Rob has no lawyer there okay on behalf of like free speech systems and all those other lawyer all those other entities Enoch is there defending the deposition gotcha but according to Mark and I think he makes a decent case he has no right necessarily to take discovery from Rob Jacobson yeah the

that is the cross-examination is not necessarily been signed off on if I understand what you're saying correctly Mark can ask questions but Enoch cannot ask questions well he can theoretically be there to object and the drama and the chaos here at the beginning largely comes down to that the fact that Rob Jacobson signed an NDA when he worked at info okay and so on behalf of free speech systems and Alex Jones Enoch can say things like I don't think you should answer that based on the NDA right right right existed in that space but then it's kind of an open question and a little bit unclear well at least Mark

believes one thing and Enoch believes the other right in terms of whether or not Alex's lawyer has the ability to question right the witness right and so that is a problem their disagreement is amass good afternoon mr. Jacobson can you introduce yourself for our record I am Robert Jacobson okay I don't think you've been given any orders from the court to do any discovery son no mr. Enoch you're not asking this witness any questions mr. Jacobson mr. Enoch mr. Enoch please point me to the order in which you've been allowed to do any discovery or take any questions of any witness point me to it mr. Enoch please right now point me

to it please do not interrupt then you're not gonna Mr. Enoch stop talking to the witness mr. check mr. Enoch this deposition will be suspended and I will sank sanctions if you speak one more time to this witness Jacobson have you been served mr. Enoch we're going off the record we're done that we're not done record deposition is suspended you have no ability to take any testimony mr. Enoch none we're zero mr. Bankston I suggest instead of getting emotional about it you let me ask the question any questions mr. Enoch please don't interrupt me again I have Mr. Enoch you have no right to answer questions before you

ask that question a single question to that witness again direct me to what authority you think you serve a subpoena on this witness I'm I don't I serve and notice of deposition on sir if you didn't serve a subpoena he's under an NDA and a confidentiality agreement he is not excused from that you did not provide him with an order in this court he cannot testify today you should have served him with a subpoena and you did not you want to take this up with the judge no sir that's what that's what I want to talk with this witness you're not going to talk to him about it well you don't have the ability to do

discovery I'm gonna ask this witness questions mr. Bankston if you instruct him not to answer and try to prevent this deposition from happening I will take it up to the court mr. Bankston you are the one preventing me from asking any question I am yes do what you need to do sir I that's what we're gonna make sure this witness knows if his obligations under the non-disclosure agreement and confidentiality agreements that he signed are you going to you sent him a letter telling him what his confidentiality agreements are telling him to observe them you have already had these communications of this witness

you have no reason to ask this witness any questions today the court has not granted your client any discovery whatsoever and you will stop interfering of this deposition you have no reason to be asking this client about confidentiality when you have already informed him of his obligations mr. Bankston I'm gonna ask the question and if you instruct him not to answer if you don't I don't represent this witness mr. Jacobson did you receive a letter from me in December or so advising of my client's insistence that you maintain confidentiality under your agreements that you reached with Alex Jones and

with free speech I don't recall okay are you still have those confidentiality and non-disclosure agreements I don't recall I don't I have since traumatic since whatever happened to me at work my files have been scattered around I'd also like to add that that nun that NDA was forced upon me after employment with Alex for over eight years sir on the record sir you you can I'm not arguing with you what you've all objection you've already done what you said you're gonna do don't start having conversations of the witness don't do it don't influence his testimony Mr. Enoch Mr. Bankston please stop interrupting me well then I

will put first before you ask your question I object to the right I object in my objection is up to the form of your question very well mr. Jacobson are you familiar with the requirements and the documents that you signed that you maintain confidentiality unless you are subpoenaed or I'm familiar I'm familiar with the action that it was forced upon me after being employed by him with language in that NDA which includes things like the known universe and stuff it's garbage and no no I am not aware of any I I know that it was forced upon me I was employed by Alex for over eight years and they forced it upon me I

was a so I don't know where it is I don't know what the language is and I don't recall anything I'd like to mark as an exhibit please madam object to any exhibits being offered by you Mr. Enoch what are you doing good question let's let's just talk what do you think you're doing I want to make sure you're not you're not questioning this witness anymore this is not your deposition you have no ability to do discovery I've had extraordinary patience with allowing you to ask the questions of the witness to ascertain whether he knows there's a confidentiality agreement I will also being asking him about that same

confidentiality agreement now that that's been done you have no reason to be questioning the only reason you're doing it is to influence this witness that's literally the only reason you're doing it I consider what you're doing highly improper and I am asking you once again knock this off mr. Enoch what are you doing Mr. Jacobson do you recognize exhibit number one I don't have any recall of this exhibit would you look at your signature on the last page and please identify that we need to go off the record and call the court right now mr. Enoch did you recognize a signature I I want you to notice the date did you

when was my employment started sir sir I don't have any representation here is when was my employment started when was the first day I started working let's stop for a second mr. Enoch we're going off the record right now recall in the court very well so yeah it's that's how we start it's an ugly little bit of business there at the beginning yeah there is there this is not like any of the other ones I've seen right right right so so Enoch is his strategy he's coming in and he's thinking here's what I'm gonna do before Mark can say a word I'm going to interject I am going to talk over him try and bully him push him

back then I'm going to make Rob Jacobson know that if he says anything I don't like we're gonna go after him because he broke the NDA there yeah there is a feeling of trying to influence the testimony by way of veiled intimidation yeah absolutely that's not hard and yeah you can see for sure that Rob is getting agitated but I don't I don't think that he's I wouldn't describe it as like a breaking down or anything you know like he's he is holding his own and in in to whatever extent you can really but but also I mean he's not represented and so like he is going to you know possibly yell back yeah I mean

fuck you and I there's not really there's not really much you can do I mean Mark isn't his lawyer yeah can't really control the the situation no Enoch is clearly out of pocket and just in business for himself here right and so it's it's a mess I mean from from what I understand here's what I'm understanding is going on right Mark and Rob are there to do a job and Enoch is there to stop that job from occurring yeah yeah and the it's predicated on the idea that there wasn't a subpoena right and that like if there had been a subpoena then he would be free from his NDA right and because there was only a court

order that isn't enough or whatever right Rob's feeling about it is it's too pronged the first is that the the NDA was forced upon him after years of working there and that's not appropriate and then the second thing that he brings up in this next clip that we're going to hear as the fight continues is that he has an understanding of the NDA that has to do with like business secrets business practices it doesn't cover other things right so I don't think that's in this next clip I think that's a little bit later but it but from what I understand but if I understand the reality of the dynamics here there are

two people there and then there's a lawyer who's just being an asshole to somebody yeah you know trying to protect the business but that's like if I was outside and E not came up to me and asked me that shit I don't have to answer a goddamn word that E not like I could say go fuck yourself and that's fine and conceivably it's the same thing exactly for Rob with him I can't say go fuck yourself to mark but he can say you know well I mean he could but you know it's supposed to be a deposition there the two of them clearly have at least a mutual respect like Rob and Mark are adults can see what conceivably on the

same page to you in terms of like I have questions you are willing to answer those questions you got it yeah and in this next clip they come back from that pause right what ends up happening is they try to call the court they're unable to get a hold of the people at the court and so they realize well we've got to go forward with this right so let's try and see see how we can do that probably well mr. E not before I stopped my deposition and you said you were going to ask him one thing about one document and whether he had a signature and now you say you're done when I asked hold on he refused to answer the question he sure

did and when I asked you okay you've asked him are you done you completely ignored me continued to break this client I mean this person and he expressed you that he was very agile hold on mr. and I can express he was agitated for you are you now saying you have asked the totality of the questions you intend to ask this witness first now didn't I don't know then we are suspending this deposition I don't know what I'm gonna ask or if I'm gonna ask anything and tell you're done with your examination mr. Bankston well apparently you did because you started asking questions before I even started my examination mr.

E not and you know that's highly improper I'm asking you right now are do you intended question this witness today mr. Bankston I am alarmed that this witness is not represented by counsel I am concerned that he is not aware of his rights and obligations under legally binding contracts with my client I want to make sure he is aware of those to protect himself or to get counsel of his own choosing you've been able to do not interrupt me intimidation not interrupt you you did three fucking times and getting him to voluntarily disclose information these obligated not to do without court order you did not

serve a subpoena you did not tell him of the effect of that under his agreement he now knows it you may continue your deposition mr. Enoch let's make this clear for the record I do not have his agreement when you sent this letter that informed him of that agreement you do now I I asked you at the time didn't I mr. Enoch when I sent you a letter said your letters very unclear it could in fact cause this witness to think he's not supposed to testify today wouldn't it be best if you disclose to everybody what that agreement is you didn't do that you waited until we walked into this room to put it down on the table you say

you have every right to inform this client of this person of his obligations and you were worried that he doesn't know understand what those were I understand that which is why you sent that letter which I would I think is a perfectly reasonable thing to do and if you wanted to call this witness talk to him or contact him that's perfectly appropriate to ambush him at the moment of his testimony is not appropriate and it is not appropriate to start asking questions before I even ask questions if you intend to ask more questions today let me know because we will suspend the deposition so that mr. Jacobson can get

counsel and so that we can take it up with the court to see if your actions today were proper do you want to ask questions today or not mr. Enoch mr. Bankston I did not know until my first question of this witness that you had not served him with a subpoena as I think you were obligated to do to obtain his his testimony therefore I wanted to make sure he was aware of exhibit one that does not allow his voluntary participation in your discovery without a court order subpoena now with respect to questions of this witness I can't answer that now because

I haven't heard your questions I think I'm entitled to ask questions under the rules you think I'm not so go ahead and ask your questions let's see if I have questions if I do the rules allow me to make my record you can object as you wish and then we can take it up with the judge but we spend a lot of time haggling right now we've taken the witness's time ask your questions you've taken the witness's time ask your questions you've taken my time mr. Enoch that's what you've done ask your questions and I can tell you this I don't represent this witness and when I'm done asking my

questions if he wants to get up and walk out of this room without saying another word to you I'm not stopping him on what basis I'm not stopping him I have no control over this man mr. Enoch I have none I don't represent you understand the witness under your notice is here from day to day and you understand cross examination is allowed and what do you want me to do to stop him what do you want me to do why don't you just ask should I chain him to the chair mr. Enoch please start asking your questions let's get on with the deposition will you do that yeah now

we'll do that mr. sure well too so I think we've gotten a number of different vibes uh from Alex lawyers yeah and I think Enoch is uh maybe one of the the worst it is guy's an asshole it is hard to really wrestle with the feeling that I have right now which is like does a man sometimes need to be slapped in the face you know like not in a not in a violence kind of manner but in like a remind you of who you should be kind of way perhaps pistols at dawn would be in order for this man

or el kabong yes absolutely knock him out right for a couple hours and then when he wakes up you can be like oh you fell asleep it'll be fine this is where like you splash some water on your face you know something you know let's take it out of the realm of violence hold the fucking phone sir excuse me I I just it's it's a it's pretty outrageous although if I were Rob and I were hearing this I would be like okay now I know that I can just leave I mean yeah that's the idea and that's that that's probably

good to be aware of like I don't have to be subjected to this person's questions yeah mark made sure he knew that part of his rights yeah that's for sure and so with this all behind us this unpleasantness we jump into the actual questions that is it behind us no not really it hangs over the rest of this but uh you know that certainly we've gone through a lot already and what an asshole yeah total dick don't interrupt me when we were hired by for worse I was hired in 2004 by

Alex Jones do you know what corporate entity you were hired by at the time I felt I was hired by Alex Jones he was an independent proprietor do you know today what entity your former employer claims you worked for yes what entity is that free speech systems LLC okay when did your employment end my employment ended in May 1st of 2017 so keep that time frame in mind and just consider all of the stuff info wars did between those 13 years yeah

you know obviously sandy hook is a particularly bad piece of business that they were involved in right but if you look at the totality of their coverage of things over that time I mean think about all the stuff that went on you had the Boston bombing you had Anders Brevik you had other school shootings certainly that Alex denied you had the aurora massacre you had so many things that that went on during that time and he was employed through all of that yep and I think it's important to keep a keep an eye on that and

remember that and then secondarily it is important to recognize that he was directly and intimately involved in the creation of the obama deception yeah and end game along with a bunch of alex's other bullshit films so like you it's one thing to work somewhere it's another to work somewhere for 13 years and be engaged in constant horseshit so I mean just keep that in the back of your mind I mean it does feel like what we have seen from even the most contrite info warrior types is selective responsibility

for like things that they've perhaps already received consequences for or are regularly pointed out about as opposed to the totality of what they have done there I have I have a tough time agreeing with you universally but I generally do yeah I think there may be some folks who and I think maybe some people who work there shorter who have but I think Rob Rob is a pretty unique case 13 years is a long time one a lot of shit to fuck up and like one of the earliest employees really I mean in 2004

alex did not have a robust operation right right right and someone who went along the whole time yeah until he was fired in 2017 he didn't quit no he was fired yep I struggle with this because I want to believe the best in folks sure and I do believe that he does have misgivings about what he was involved in but I don't necessary and maybe it's a shortcoming of a deposition setting sure because like obviously it's not in marx interests to be like what do you feel about do you regret everything you have ever done there

yeah what about in the game have you have you figured out that everything you've done is brought misery to this world yeah and so maybe you can't really get a sense of that from this deposition but I do feel from some of the questions that we'll get to I don't I feel like he wouldn't say the things that he's saying if there was like an actual recognition of the nonsense and inappropriate sort of material and content that was put out over the course of those 13 years it's not it's an this isn't like an isolated thing of sandy

hook that that is a problem I think it's a systematic problem of all of the information that comes out in this information right right right I think from here's what I'm I'm getting is like in terms of the whole you know like when they talk about their faults or responsibility for sandy hook they're really talking about the the symptoms of what happened there as opposed to realizing that sandy hook what they did to sandy hook was unique only in so far as the way that it is

ended up well as opposed to it being any different from how they would have covered any other story like that you know sure um it may be um maybe by degree a little more ghoulish in some way first I mean of course yeah but not really that different than a lot of other coverage that they did yeah it's it's something it's an event that occurred out of their regular process not an anomaly right and if you are somebody who believes the stuff that alex believes

there's no reason why you wouldn't believe the stuff about sandy hook totally it's if you believe all the narratives about the globalists and how they do false flags all the time in order to achieve their goals the stuff alex was saying about sandy hook falls in line with that it's not as outrageous as it sounds to people who aren't in that that way of thinking in that headspace right and that that's something that I don't really feel like I see any kind of grappling with from in this deposition at least

I mean that the truth is people wouldn't have gone along with the belief of sandy hook if it weren't for the years before that right if it weren't for the made it makes sense yeah if it weren't for the priming to get us to this place so in effect everybody involved in the lead-up is just as involved in the in the act itself uh you know yeah um and uh end game might have been a part of that yeah you better believe it so anyway uh mark shows rob the letter that he got sent uh about the uh the nda

apparently i wanted to show you something i'ma wanted to mark his exhibit one but i believe mr. enok is already hijacked that exhibit so i am going to mark this as exhibit two someone hit this man someone hit him have you ever seen a copy of that before do you remember seeing that yes i want to direct you to the second page i'm going to read the paragraph that appears on this page to you you were reminded that you have important continuing obligations under your

confidentiality non-disclosure agreements with my clients you are expected to strictly observe those duties and obligations do you do you feel like you understand what obligations are being referred to here ideal okay have you abided by those obligations yes sir in fact may i add something to my understanding of the non-disclosure is not to reveal any company secrets i don't think abuse or abuse of behavior inside the company constitutes company secrets i don't think misbehavior inside the

company by an adult who runs the business constitutes company secrets and in fact i'm here to try to bring light to the truth of abusive and behavior inside the walls of infor wars and i don't think anything that i say today violates the nda which would be constituting of company secrets their formulas and how they produce the news that nothing like that is going to be revealed today what will be revealed is abusive behavior and the behavior of mr jones and his staff

i think i think i can get down with that thinking you know i think that makes sense tracks in some ways he's uh acting as a whistleblower if uh you know he's you know reporting on abuse within the company and right you know misbehavior well i mean if you want to claim that uh abuse is a company secret then you have to be like well see that's my management style and that in and of itself might be a larger problem look the way the way i the way i mistreat employees is proprietary

exactly yeah the the specific ways that i alarm people it's part of the business plan i filed it with my bank 30 years ago okay yeah that could be trouble um but yeah i i can i can get down with that and i i think that that is a responsible way like if if rob were to um be um giving out business secrets or whatever that might i think that might be inappropriate yeah but i i don't feel that anything uh that's done within the context of the step position comes close to something that should be like covered by an nda well i mean

illegal business practices are not covered by an nda but he doesn't know any of them well i understand he doesn't know any illegal business well i mean man you know half of what they do is so it's immoral but like one of the one of the things that i really got a sense of uh and i have a clip kind of that really made that clear to me was that is that like i don't think he was that inside with stuff yeah yeah that sounds right yeah i think that rob might have been a bit on the outside yeah um and i also don't think that he has a very good sense of the specific coverage that they were doing even

well based on the way the other people have talked about him in their depositions they everybody seems like they've kept him at arm's length for one reason or another yeah and probably unfairly probably does seem it does seem that that way quite a bit yeah um you get the sense that maybe there was some bullying uh even that was going on uh within the the walls of the totally believable um so mark asks about when he began uh at info wars and you know what was you know do you believe in that stuff how'd you feel when you started yeah when you first joined info wars did you believe in its mission uh for the most part yes

tell me about the kinds of stories or things that you wanted to be working on when you first came to info wars when i first when i first uh arrived at info wars my understanding of info wars and alex's subject matter was the occult esoteric politics let's say what's going on behind the curtain things that politicians don't tell us in expose in that fashion fringe media off the mainstream but still honest was my impression were you passionate about journalism at that time i was passionate about filmmaking and i wanted to be a documentary filmmaker so in that aspect yes that does i believe um fall under a broader um umbrella of journalism so when it comes to

documentary films i was on board did you want to do good journalism i did well that's nice um the the stuff that he's describing like the stuff behind the curtain the esoteric uh the the power how they act secretly yeah that's the stuff that leads to globalist false flag beliefs yeah that's the problem yeah it seems very difficult for me to um disconnect the way alex treated those subjects and what it led to right well i mean but that that comes back again to like it's the entirety that is the problem yeah you know like we're we're dealing with the results of if that problem is left unchecked and it's not it's not like this specific event is the only problem that is just part of the problem yeah you know yeah and to to pretend like it's anything other than

that is willful ignorance or a complete misunderstanding of what is is what you've done wrong if anything yeah and so he you know he's he's very much into the filmmaking and the documentary stuff and wants to do good journalism vis-à-vis that that avenue sure one of the issues that i have and i don't understand exactly what happened or what was done but like alex didn't put out a documentary for like 10 years at this point now so like what was rob doing after like 2012 like strategic relocation i think was the last documentary alex put out and that's basically just him talking to joel scousen about places you could bug out to like i don't know what documentary work was being done like was he i don't know if he was involved in field pieces or

you know like i don't maybe it was just a basic video a video editor at that point like you know bound would do those reports and maybe he just edited the videos together but if he was then he would be far more intimately involved in a way right of the content that was being put out then he's presenting himself as being yeah and i i don't think that that's necessarily dishonest because the way he answers questions about like you know what did what did what did you know about this uh theory right about sandy hook or not right right you know like i don't know if he was intimately in like aware of like literally everything i don't know what he was doing i i am if you're the documentarian in house at info wars and they haven't put out a documentary

forever you're still on the payroll this is this is a another continuing problem i don't know what anybody fucking does for a job beyond oan and alex and harrison he's on air and harrison yes yeah what any of you do yeah so um mark asks you know what is what is this good journalism to you that you wanted to do good question mr jackerson what does good journalism good journalism means an objective reporting of facts somebody who can or if the journalist can remove his emotion and theory as much as possible from

reporting what he sees with or she sees with her uh their own eyes and ears empirical evidence reported to the public with very little bias in your mind what is the relationship between good journalism and corroboration of facts i think good journalism um if you're going to have a corroboration of facts i believe the more witnesses and points of view of the same um action or activity that is being reported on the better and um for example uh just theoretically thinking one person can't see both sides of the cup at once so when two people are observing it at the same time you get a better description of the object

in question and so the more witnesses that have viewed it the more impressions we can get after the fact of what has actually happened in the object that we're observing in your first few years at infowars were you comfortable with the style of journalism and the stories you were working on i may ask you not to answer based on the privilege that's your choice that's that's my client trying to protect the privilege but when i object say objection form or leading you can go ahead and answer okay would you like me to ask that question again yes please okay in those first few years at infowars were you comfortable with the style of journalism and the stories you were working on same projections i was comfortable with the films i was producing

and helping alex produce i found them interesting and i found that alex did present enough expert testimony that it held water in my mind that's absolutely terrible judgment that's an insane thing to say i think that some of the stuff that he's saying makes a lot of sense like the idea that he can't see both sides of the cup at the same time so having the most perspectives on the cup allows you to know what the cup is great that's good on paper um there's one viewpoint in those documentaries that he put out and that's alex it does seem to be the case you know there's not anything that unbiased in that there's there is complete uh misrepresentation of very basic facts it's it's nonsense if you really wanted to do the kind of work that you're describing

then your documentary would have had people who were like this is a load of bullshit right or giving at least some kind of a counter perspective to to alex's utter nonsense right instead of just interviewing big jim tucker in a bar while he smokes cigars and hangs out with daniel estolin right right right so maybe what he's more thinking is like his style of journalism is you know like one person can't see both sides of the cup but one person can tell you that the cup is actually a goat and if you have a thousand people behind that but one person convincing you that that cup is a goat then you're probably gonna believe that cup as a goat right that makes sense and if you uh present things with enough quote unquote experts people who appear to be experts

like dumbass big jim tucker and daniel estolin that's that's a goat then you give the appearance of something that can hold water yeah um yeah i think if that's the perspective that you have in like 2018 2019 about the work that was done on endgame yeah then you're missing the forest for the fucking trees yeah because that was a bad documentary i don't want to i don't want to denigrate stem education because i do think it's very very important but a lot of the times i feel like maybe one of the larger problems that we have is just the inability to translate words into concepts and have them make sense and i'm maybe that starts young that's all i'm saying i think i think that there is a big dip there's a difficulty that i have

combining this seeming being fine with the documentary work right right that holds water and simultaneously being somebody who within info wars was saying this coverage of sandy hook is bad at the time yeah you know like being aware of that and still being fine with what you did with endgame that's trouble that's that's very weird for me well i mean you have to stop and say okay well what are the problems that you had with this specifically and in what way do those not apply to literally everything you've ever done there right so uh there's a issue of like fact checking uh that alex does and sure sure this was this seems dumb mr jacobson in terms of info wars um consistency or process for corroborating facts in your mind had that changed between the

start of your employment and the end of your employment injection injection i feel that from the beginning when i first started working there the fact collection was mostly alex and uh mostly himself was the researcher by the end alex did let a lot of others do research for him and i don't know if these people were specifically qualified or experienced enough to do that kind of work ah now here's the twist neither was alex yeah there we go that was the that's that's the interesting yes the problem i'm having with this explanation wait wait wait wait wait wait things weren't sunny wait in 2005 2006 it's not like things were oh so rigorous and everything was by the book and alex alex and his precise fact checking uh methodology no he was full of

shit and he hired a bunch of other people who were full of shit right and they care even less yeah well see when alex stopped making up his own bullshit that's when it all went downhill that's when when he gave creative control over fantasy reality to other people now god knows what could happen well like when alex says he has the documents it makes sense when oan says alex has the documents that's bullshit yeah okay all right okay oh whatever what do you think the what is it what is the issue that people ah man so i will say that one of the things i do appreciate and you can't really take away is that rob does own up to and clearly feels bad about being involved in whatever capacity he was with the coverage of sandy hook sure and so he talks about that a little

bit and and what he tried to do um at the time a few months back do you remember calling me about this case yes sir why'd you do that i was concerned i wanted to make sure i i felt i was part of something just being in that building when all this was going down i felt terrible what happened i even though i myself no i wasn't directly involved in you know uh putting this out there directly just being in the building i feel complicit i feel i have to right a wrong that i was involved in and even though i was part of that wrong i want to at least stack a couple of correct decisions up with some of the mistakes that i've made in the past when you say um that you weren't directly involved in putting this out there what is this this would be sandy hook uh

anything that info wars put out concerning sandy hook i had absolutely no involvement in during your employment were you exposed to info wars coverage of sandy hook during my employment i had other assignments to do and i wouldn't much pay attention to the show however when i did and i heard about sandy hook it actually uh bothered me tell me what you mean by that what did you hear that bothered you i heard them making accusations based on extremely narrow cross sections of information that i did my best to make the writers and the staff aware that what they were doing was speculation based on not enough information it bothered me that bothered me that i felt um they had no concept of journalist ethics did you tell anyone at info wars your feelings

about the sandy hook coverage i attempted to make it as clear as possible to the writers that there is something called journalist ethics and how what they were doing was in a direct violation of that anytime i caught wind of the sandy hook story on info wars now mind you i would like to add that it's not something i was thinking about all the time considering i had other things to do i'd be working on other projects but when it would come on the screen i would make it my business to go into the writers and explain to them as clearly as possible that there is journalist ethics and i tried to demonstrate what those ethics are and why they're violating them and what the damage could possibly be in fact they remember i must have been in that room

four to five times at least and um only to be received with laughter and jokes i don't understand what the journalist ethics he's talking about here is because if it's like taking a small cross section of information or like that's all info war does yeah i mean the like the like the principle behind whatever he's describing is exactly the same as yeah 90 percent of the work that he does now if this is the case and he's working on these other projects and whenever he catches wind that sandy hook is being covered there is some offense that you know he takes at that i don't understand how you like let's say you're barely ever watching the show and sometimes you catch it and you're talking about sandy hook and you're like this is fucked up yeah i don't understand why your next

step wouldn't be like maybe you should watch more of the show and see if they're doing this all the time yeah maybe i should see if they're treating other subjects with this much disrespect and lack of care maybe i'm involved in a really awful thing here yeah but it it seems like and i think that everybody wants to pretend this especially everybody who worked at info wars that this is like a unique isolated thing yeah it's just an aberration it's crazy that this happened yeah it's not connected to anything yeah it is that the thing but here's what i can the only way i can make sense of it is it's it's easy to understand when you fucked up if you receive negative consequences or if if like people make it aware to you that you fucked up it's really hard to understand

you fucked up if people give you positive consequences for it or encourage you to keep doing it you know so so to me it does make sense in a certain way for him to think that he's done a good job on some stuff because people gave him positive reinforcement for sure you know and it's easy for him to understand that this is bad because people have been negative about it he's in a deposition right right but he didn't do anything wrong i know of that's the weirdest part about this yeah is that i that's the thing i don't understand yeah i can't i can't reconcile that on all accounts he did things right his coverage of stuff and his work product didn't involve sandy hook when he caught wind internally that it was being covered he told people this is bad

don't do this i know you know it's not he doesn't have like i i get working at info wars is bad and all of it is bad but that's what he has to feel bad about yeah not the sandy hook stuff i mean he doesn't have any business being in this deposition honestly yeah normally i would be like oh well obviously he's lying but we have evidence that he did say yeah stop it yeah you know and then it on salazar bullied him yeah yeah i don't i don't understand this at all right just no way to reconcile this in a way that makes sense uh and there's no consistency it feels like the aberration is him being like oh well this is wrong right well but that's the that's the the weird thing it's confusing i don't really i don't yeah so anyway

rob talks about his complaints uh that he made to adan salazar okay whenever uh this subject came up i would immediately clarify to the writers that there is a journalistic ethics that they're violating and what i've pointed out to adan specifically is that you're taking the word of one witness primarily and a couple of speculative other facts and calling it the truth without actually going down and investigating it ourselves are actually going with our own reporters and corroborating what these people are saying i made it aware to adan that wolf gang how big could have a lot of issues that we're not considering that by taking the word of this one man so heavily with such a great accusation that he's accusing people of was so irresponsible

so damaging his i asked him consider the size of the audience and adan salazar responded with and i'm gonna quote him and because he said it to me many times i want to print up a t-shirt that says how big was right i want bumper stickers that say how big was right to a laughing room yeah there's been other people who have said that that's you know that that story checks out but like and he's emotional about i don't understand what is it about this that is different from the aurora sure or what about this is different than like he's saying relying on wolf gang how big maybe he has other problems like what about thinking about end game and relying on jim tucker who works for a holocaust denying publication or maybe has a severe alcoholism

even as demonstrated in the fucking film you made it clear or what about relying on daniel estolin who's a lunatic and citations to people who think they're space gods i don't know in his book like this is the product that he was you know put out that rob jacobson this documentary that he thinks is not like these other things that in fours is done and it just doesn't make sense to me i don't know i don't i don't get it i don't i don't get it because i don't think he is honestly as it relates to sandy hook the only thing he has to apologize for i guess is that he didn't quit yeah that's all he has to apologize for and that has no real relevance in a courtroom it is no real relevance in a deposition as they go through the questions about this stuff that

is relevant to sandy hook he doesn't know that much the only thing that you could really concretely take away from this perhaps is that like he's an av guy and yet he can speak with some credibility about the idea of anderson cooper's nose on a blue screen sure so like there is that that he can offer as like my expert witness niss but there's other people you get to do that yeah i don't i don't know i guess and i appreciate on some level that he feels bad about connecting him being connected to this right um but i i don't know it feels like he's asking uh for for sort of forgiveness or penitence for the wrong thing yeah i just doesn't make sense it is a group of thoughts that i cannot imagine having in your brain simultaneously like i did wrong but i didn't do wrong

but also i did do wrong but also i didn't like it's wild i don't i don't understand how many different possible avenues that he can both excuse his behavior be excused for his behavior and then still not understand that his behavior is reprehensible and there's no excuse for you know like i don't i don't get it yeah the the behavior that's the problem is being a part of creating like foundational texts within the info wars canon right that are relied on to blend credibility to things like the coverage of sandy hook right there is a there is that to wrestle with and that's not that's not present here at all it's somebody who helped build a church who helped build this entire church and then is like oh man i'm really sorry for those guys who put that steeple

on there that the church is terrible now you know i just don't you're not even that i don't even it it's it's it's i don't know it doesn't make a lot of sense no so anyway rob explains um like a problem that he has with info wars coverage and i would say if you have a problem with this you got to go back to page one baby when you were at info wars in general if a person did something in public that was agitating was that good for their career at info wars or bad for their career it was it was excellent for their career i can point to several examples where it's not reporting at all it's pure agitation by many just several and i have also been very critical of that it's been it's been pure in fact some of it is so agitating it's almost to the level of public disruption so including

uh can i go on please protection non-responsive so far okay here let me ask you another question can you give me an example of some of the things you're talking about when you say agitation yes miss milley weaver last year or the year before that uh i'm not sure when but it was in the last perhaps 12 months i believe because it was after i left she showed up at a hillary clinton book signing event that was at book people these people were not there to protest these people were not there to hillary this is far after the election nobody was campaigning but miss milley weaver decided to show up with a lot of trump gear which obviously is going to be as we follow the news we know is agitating towards um in a very political way you know so in my opinion just by looking at that i notice

that reporters don't show up sponsoring politicians so for her to go there and say and in fact the name of this video on youtube is called journalist harassed or something she identifies herself as a journalist while she shows up wearing political gear directly aiming at the opposite end of the spectrum asking abrasive questions about hillary hillary clinton now that's not journalism that's agitation and that is a clear-cut case example of them swapping out the words agitation for journalism and vice versa but this is fundamental like alex's family crest might as well have a bullhorn on it that's his whole claim agitation he agitates people he go he goes and yells at people and makes a scene that's how that's who he is it's not it's not tyranny journalism it's

tyranny crusher no most of like a large portion of endgame is him yelling at people in a bullhorn he's going to a place where people are not protesting or whatever and he's causing problems yeah this is the info wars model alex paid people to yell bill clinton as a rapist that was on tv that was the thing how is that journalist in a contest for people to do that right like it's again this is missing the forest for the trees entirely like you take issue with millie weaver doing that but that is what info wars is that is the business that you were involved in for 13 years yeah and how could you not know you obviously know that you have to know that maybe you're blocking yourself from being aware of it or showing awareness possible but like that is not

in any way different than what they do nope this is what the business model is yeah bing if you have a problem with it then i don't know what to tell you yeah i mean it is it did you did he have like four years of reflection and therapy and stuff i mean can he honestly say no because this is a year after he left oh he got fired so all right it's maybe a year or three wow i mean i hope so that would be nice but it seems like he's passionate about them fucking up in this case sure yeah i would i would love to see a larger understanding or reflection on the way that the things that he's complaining about are actually essential pieces yeah of info wars not things that are recent not things that have only to do with sandy hook they are what alex does these are

not bugs these are features what his documentaries featured as well yeah not not just info wars outside of his projects and things yeah so i don't know i don't know what to say anyway um there he definitely had some complaints internally yes wow um sandy hook was happening the coverage yeah and there was another person who did and that is paul joseph watson and so mark asks about uh paul's opinion can you tell us who paul watson is paul watson is sort of alex's uh alternate host he's basically it's like a alex's sidekick okay okay were have you ever been aware of mr watson's opinions about the sandy hook hoax allegations

no okay see that is one of the reasons that i think he's pretty outside any kind of like internal stuff well he doesn't really communicate at all with paul watson right it does yeah but also paul made a big deal out of it he you know that email he had buckly on it they were supposed to tell everyone to stop talking about sandy hook conceivably that might have involved in all hands meeting you would expect um i don't know it seems like if you didn't know that paul took great issue with this yeah and you also took great issue with this that seems to me that everybody is disconnected um and paul is clearly on the inside yeah and maybe rob is over here well and i mean i would assume they didn't necessarily i mean i don't think they really publicized

internally that people didn't like it you know they definitely seem to think they did well no i mean like in the other like i i don't assume that rob do and alex were both going around being like hey make sure that we don't do this thing they say that they did well they say that they did but they clearly obviously didn't i don't know all right i don't know what to believe anyway the like i said one of the things that uh rob's testimony could be good for is the audio visual aspect and so they talk about the blue screen situation and i think unfortunately rob affirms alex's conspiracy here oh no would anybody with competent video experience have serious doubts about saying this was blue screen injection form i feel they would they would they would be on the

fence uh if if they saw this video they would have questions okay can i go further and explain that actually let me ask you a question on that okay okay um your opinion about whether or not it could be fairly asserted that this is clearly blue screen informing your opinion on whether that could be asserted can you tell me about any of the things you see in this video or any of your experience that would inform that opinion there's nothing there's nothing in that video that will clearly indicate to me that that was uh blue blue screen video okay if a witness if anyone was to say i can look at that video i work with blue screen it's got all the telltale signs that's clearly blue screen in your opinion is that person

acting responsible injection form no i don't i think that based on what we see on that screen that could be that error in the nose could have been caused by a number of different reasons and none of them are clear from what we see there without knowing what happened behind the scenes with the operating room controllers and so on and so forth that could have been a natural glitch that happens all the time on youtube we see it all the time we're pixel smudge there is no secret about that there's must be a million videos or more we're pixel smudge all the time in order for that uh should i continue if you have more facts that you bear the only thing i could the only thing i could tell you about that is the only way that that is possibly green screen is if anderson cooper

is not standing next to that woman yeah that is what alex claims yeah that would be yeah so i mean like obviously there is a usefulness there and in terms of like no if you know about green screen blue screen technology that is not something you would immediately jump to right you'd have questions and there would be a hundred explanations for what you see there right blue screen is not definite alex saying it's definite is irresponsible um but then the the only way that's blue screen is if anderson cooper wasn't there it's like that is that's what alex is saying yep yep yep that's that's kind of the point did they do they have it's like okay so i'm envisioning now like rob is working in an office right okay and sometimes alex comes and sees him so he thinks that he's working in an office

with alex but it's actually like entirely across town you know like he's not even in the same building as those people no because he said he goes to the writer he's gone to the writer's room i know but he's in the facility it's insane to me how far away from the the reality of the business he seems to be yeah you know you know what here's the other thing like maybe i've been in some jobs in my life let me just say this haven't we all um and there have been times when i um have not done a lot of work but definitely wanted to look like it was sure that's been there and maybe rob's other assignments were just uh kill in time i mean has he just been doing nothing for 10 years just i was like hoping alex doesn't notice is that really it is like if i keep my head down i think i

could just stay here i have definitely done that at certain jobs there's in the past so i i i don't think it's outside the like possibility in terms of how you know some sometimes you can fly under the radar sure you know don't bring too much attention to yourself i have in the past asked myself the question how long can i get away with this for yeah that's that's definitely true yeah my days are numbered here at groupon yeah might as well might as well just hang out and see what happens yeah can't believe i made it three months longer than i thought i would great um so uh rob uh he his awareness of the fact that like parents of victims were not happy yeah did not come from anything internal uh turns out he was watching pbs at any time during your time at info

wars past 2013 were you aware that parents had been complaining about this coverage no not immediately i really became aware of it uh sometime afterwards when i saw actually uh i think a pbs special on what was going on and it really hit home at that point i was like this is so he watched a pbs special right and that's how he became aware the parents weren't happy right um and this pbs special also is where he learned that there was harassment going on did you ever become aware that parents were being harassed by believers in the sandy hook hoax conspiracy theory yes i became aware of that when do you think you became aware of that somewhere around 2014 2015 maybe 2015 but he said what when i saw that pbs documentary

so the pbs documentary you saw that was when you were employed at info i was still employed there he was still employed there saw this it all became very real to him and then he still worked there for two more years then i put my hat on and i said good morning sam uh-huh good morning Ralph that's weird i don't understand that at all really i mean i feel like i don't i feel like maybe i am just i guess morally inflexible in a way that i thought that i thought was far more reasonable but maybe is just i mean unusual because that seems to me like the moment you find that out you can't be like well at least it's not my department and then just go back to work the next day you you kind of i think

have to shut down any pretense that you have a moral connection totally totally it has to eat like it's so cynical to go back to work after after saying it became very real to you and like becoming aware of the parents are being harassed and you know what i mean like he got fired two years later he didn't even quit eventually like he presumably would still be working there under harassing awful abusive conditions like i'm not saying he deserves that or anything sure but had he not been fired would he still be working there possibly maybe it's i don't get this i mean i don't understand i i i recognize that that concept of like well that's the business's fault not mine right so i get that so but it's not like you're in that's not like you're working for chase bank

as like an analyst of insurance or something like that where it's like yeah i get it the company you work for is evil i understand that but it's not like a business where you can go talk to the ceo doing evil shit and be like hey stop it and he can tell you to go fuck off you know you're just a cog in that little machine this is a different story well i think that he has obviously marketable skills sure he has talent in a way that a lot of other people who work for informers don't like a lot of the writers are not employable anywhere else right they do shit work because they're bad writers the reporters suck they can't work anywhere else the people on air don't have the chops to cut it anywhere else yeah he has audio visual skills that like he has a trade

basically that could be employed somewhere else yeah i mean he could walk into a local tv station fairly certain that i'm not saying those jobs are just available for anybody but you know what i mean yeah he could find a job somewhere else much more easily than i think a lot of the other people who are mucked up in info wars totally i'm not saying i'm not saying it would be the simplest thing ever but it is a possibility in a way that a lot of other people probably think i'm completely unemployable anywhere else because of this being on my resume right maybe not as much for for rob i don't think that it's always the simplest thing when people work in places that you know like you have some misgivings about the the ethical nature of what you're doing yeah but

there are that's on a different scale a lot of the time from the the reality of info wars yeah and i don't know i don't i i find it i find it to be worse that he knows how bad this is yeah you know the fact that might be the issue the fact that he was saying to people while the sandio coverage was going on that this is bad that makes it more difficult for me to understand his non quitting yeah because it should have war on him more because he does have a moral compass he's demonstrated that certain things are beyond a line for him and it turns out that maybe just the line doesn't matter yeah i i don't know i mean i guess now we're kind of getting into a more deeper conversation about the diffusion of responsibility you know to like at what point

do you say well i can't work on an oil derrick like it's morally reprehensible because it it is i mean that's a true thing i get what do you say to that you know you have to ask yourself that question i get what you're saying and i think the difference is abstraction um the i agree the abstractness of the harm that you're causing by working on an oil derrick or something is different than the very clearly traceable line totally from the dissemination and promotion of sandy hook conspiracy theorists and the uh harm you're seeing brought home in very vivid uh light in the pbs special right you know like there is a very clear line um when the line started you were aware of how bad it could be and when the line ended you saw oh i was right

about how bad it could be and these are people whose lives are clearly um severely negatively impacted by the work that we do at my job yeah i suppose i suppose that's that's kind of it that's the really the line there is just like hey i saw this you do this i told you to not to do this that it's wrong and then you continue doing it so i can't work here anymore right if you are somebody who works at an oil rig and you have an understanding of like a harm that's being done to the world and stuff right there is not all that much that you can do to remedy that harm right in the broad sense outside of like quit stay it's not really going to make a difference in terms of well and you can make an argument maybe that rob quitting wouldn't have made that big a difference either but sure

towards the damage done but like the in order to um make any kind of headway you need to change the energy consumption patterns of the world yeah you know there is a much larger thing that needs to be done right uh to to assay your concerns with rob you can i don't know i don't know i don't know if it's the same i don't know i don't think it's the same it doesn't feel the same nope so um it was severe for him when he um was concerned about the behavior of the writers uh he does say it is a 10 on the outrageousness scale when you were as you mentioned earlier communicating your thoughts to people at info wars about the sandy hook coverage can you describe to me on a scale of one being not outrageous at all and 10 being extremely outrageous on that's one to 10 scale

what is the level of outrageousness of this conduct that you were trying to impart i thought it was a 10 tell me why you thought that because i mean it's one thing to make a mistake it's another thing to have somebody come in and i don't even i'm not aware if i was the one and only person or not but it's but i know i was doing it to come in and say hey this is wrong you're making a mistake it's one thing you know to actually have a mistake and and something else to have it pointed out to you not just once but over and over and over again and to not only hear the damage that you're doing to people outside of your zone but to actually laugh about it i thought was it that's a 10 if it's a 10 what are you doing

why don't i i just don't understand why you don't quit if you're saying that that's a 10 then nothing can make you quit is also what you're saying true because there is no 11 there's no 11 now and here's the other thing that is something you should grapple with if this is a 10 out of 10 on the outrageousness scale and the people who are doing it are not fired by alex they are congratulated maybe louded maybe um given bonuses and shit yes which we know has happened maybe that should be a strong indication that this uh this rot goes to the core of the entire business alex incentivizes 10 out of 10 on the outrageousness right because his sign on his family crest is a bullhorn i mean that's that's such a weird i don't understand it at all if you plum into that kind

of moral relativity that's just insane that at a certain point that just means like oh well listen i want him to keep it at a seven of outrageousness that's where i think it's supposed to be that's good journalism like that's insane well i would i would argue that it's possible to make the argument that a seven is not what you'd call good journalism but maybe it's something sustainable and like you could get along with like a publicity stunt might be a seven like a like a semi-tasteless publicity stunt like yelling bill clinton is a rapist and having people paying people to do that maybe that's a seven out of ten on the outrageousness scale sure and i could see you staying employed uh you know and being like ah whatever maybe i'm not a huge fan of that but you know we'll

do our work a ten out of ten and this it's like you gotta quit man what are you doing i know i i don't understand this person unless there's like blackmail or a gun to his head or something i it's it's it's make more sense yeah i can't i can't make it make more sense i you know i don't know that but it's an abusive maybe it's an abusive relationship and we can't really judge him for not being able to exit that relationship the way that he wanted you know if you experience that much abuse and you think that's where you to belong or deserve to be placed perhaps he's perhaps his penance really was enduring the continued abuse fuck if i know the psychology of this man is beyond me that's what i'm trying to say if that if that's the case i don't want to get into it i don't even

want to get into it yeah i don't understand you so um in this next clip uh rob discusses that he has guilt and that's good i guess do you today have any sense of guilt about the coverage about sandy hook that came out of infor worse form leading yes as i've mentioned in my uh statements previously the reason why i'm here is because a tremendous amount of guilt that i didn't act faster maybe i should have quit maybe i could have caught the story faster or been better at explaining but yes i do are you still on friendly terms with info wars no were you terminated yes so i don't like i've said already i don't understand why he has any guilt not the the notion of like maybe i

should have quit yeah but that's about you yeah that's for you to wrestle with has nothing to do with anything else the the idea that maybe i could have done something better or maybe i could have you know gotten this story i could have acted more internally no you fucking couldn't poll joseph watson is one of the most powerful people within info wars true he was opposed to this made it clear to alex got alex's cousin who was a manager at info wars who agreed with him looped in on the same thing it didn't do shit yeah there was not anything that could have been done because this is what alex wanted that's true this is how things were going to go no matter what so yes the only thing i think maybe he should feel guilt about maybe not the only thing but

the primary thing here is that he didn't quit and that's about his own well-being that is about his own uh shit yeah it he owes no real apology necessary i don't i don't i but this that actually i can't understand i can understand the feeling because if you do believe that this is something of an anomaly right i can understand the feeling of someone just being like oh well there's more i could have done you know if by if one of my friends gets into a car accident and we were supposed to do something and they quit or whatever maybe i would feel like oh i could have done more to keep them from getting in that car like i can recognize that kind of guilt there yeah i can't recognize the feeling of like well this is my fault or it's somewhat misplaced though it is very

misplaced the guilt that we're dealing with here is yeah is misplaced yeah i feel like everywhere is misplaced well but here's the thing like all these other people that we've heard talk about stuff it's misplaced in the sense of like trying to evade responsibility whereas with rob there is a feeling of like trying to dodge it over correction yeah and i don't understand why like i obviously can't speak for anybody who's involved or anything but like he didn't do things that contributed to making this story worse right as far as we know from all available information right he did what he could internally to de-incentivize people to do it speaking out saying it's wrong um what have you like but you know he mean that's part of what he's recognizing though is like maybe i could have done

more i should have done more maybe i could have quit i should have quit you know he maybe you should have quit in 2004 that's what it would have made the most sense but we can't we can't relitigate this deposition otherwise i'd have to start talking shit to enok okay true that's where we'd really get into trouble yeah like i said i'm just confused this this is a very different deposition in terms of like what you can walk away from it from because there isn't a lot of like super relevant information that you glean from it yeah there is just somebody who is really uh seeking some kind of uh forgiveness absolution yeah in a way that doesn't make sense none and i i hope he finds whatever he needs and i wish him the best i'm not i'm not i don't want to

sit around and shit on him right or anything because i think that certainly the ability to feel guilt even if misplaced is a drastic improvement from it'll serve other people better than everybody else um but yeah it's just very confusing yeah so one of the things that is also relevant is that rob has his eoc complaint at this time right and it's still uh to be seen how it'll play out and there is a question about like you know if this case does go forward do you stand to profit from that right and rob is says no and in fact he stands to lose yeah in as much as like he won't be a primary creditor even if he did win he would be far more far less likely to receive any percent of his his money period yeah so he only stands conceivably to not the

opposite of benefit from this yeah and he makes the point that he's not i mean one of the remedies for an eoc complaint complaint is to immediately receive your job back which i do not believe no thanks no thanks so but he makes a point and i think it's uh fair to uh make note of that he's not interested in compensation uh in terms of his involvement here right i'm not doing any of this for compensation i'm doing this because alex is disgracing himself so badly and and the way he has made the parents suffer as well as myself he's still on the air to this day saying things that are arguably true or arguably not true we don't know but we do know that don't we affects his audience in a way that angers them and mobilizes them and it's unclear of anything

he's saying is fact or fiction opinion or speculation isn't it what he does do is mobilize a large amount of people in irrational thinking because there's no way to tell with whether what alex is saying on the air is news or not true or false speculation or opinion jokes or not but he advertises it all as news he is the info wars but when was that not the case i mean granted i i agree with him to the extent of like if i'm going to try and make this better i would say that alex has gotten more like outrageous right more unhinged sure but like not not knowing whether he's saying things that are opinion or fact say constantly when we go back to 2003 and we're listening to these episodes he's like this has been proven yeah you know like

he's saying all this complete bullshit and he's inciting people he's making them angry about this existential threat to their life like this has been his m o the entire time it's not a recent thing so i don't know i feel like if there was a um like a sincere belief that this is the problem then it would be uh it would always be a problem maybe you're not aware of it earlier on maybe become aware of it right um but then it this these complaints should be much more holistic i suppose i suppose here's the questions that i would want is i would want to ask what was the first time alex did something that broke what you your moral framework you know what was the first time that he's overstepped those boundaries and then why did you decide to stay that would

be a good uh question for like a grilling maybe not for marx purposes well not for marx purposes but i mean for our purposes of this conversation sure that's what i would like to know before i can be like oh here's why i wonder if you'd get an answer i wonder if because the answer should be the documentaries i worked on you know it is like i wonder if the answer is something that he would even be able to express on it not just honestly but like truly you know like is the answer that he would give something that he's created in his own mind as an answer for that question yeah and it's not a true answer even though he may believe it to be you know it's sure it's that question and i'll i'll grant that there have been other interviews that he's done

that i have i haven't listened to so i don't know i don't know if he explained some of that stuff in those interviews but i'm not covering those yeah so yeah here we are yeah we're in a deposition yeah so mark wraps things up and uh let's rob go to the hallway how is he not going to be a dig and that's all i believe i have for you at this time i appreciate it i'll go ahead i'm sorry i didn't mean to end up you go ahead sure i um i have that's all i have for you in terms of questions i have a few things i need to put on the record um they check your email yeah sure uh they don't need to concern you um if you would like to be excused while i put this on the record i can do that and i would like to ask questions are you going to prevent me from doing that more

well we're going to talk about that on the record in just a minute that's what i'm asking you yeah so we're going to let mr jakison go because we're not going to have this discussion in front of a witness sir we're not going to i don't we're not going to let him leave the building mark we're going to let mr jakison go to the bathroom and then i am going to put something on the record and then if you have some things to say about it you can say whatever you want on the record then mr jakison will be in the building and if you want to permit me to ask questions yes or no i don't think i can stop you i don't i literally don't think i can i think i would have to like go over there and physically restrain you because you won't you won't abide by rules but if mr jakison

is just going to go to the bathroom now he's going to come back and he's going to sit down in that chair and whether he wants to sit around and listen to anything you say is not my choice but i'm not releasing him from the building right now mr jakison would you like to to step out of the room maybe for a moment so you can use the restroom if you need to otherwise just wait in the front room so uh the the questioning has uh uh come to a close uh rob goes out in the hallway um and then mark puts some things into the record and one of the things that's uh important uh to uh in the things that he's putting into the record are uh things about enox behavior in the previous depositions yeah and this is this is troubling i need to put this on the record because we are now

on our third deposition of this case and in the first deposition of mr jones which mr enok was not defending but was merely an observer his name appeared in all caps where he's speaking and interjecting into the record 28 times during the testimony of mr jones and that's taking out the times that it appeared for housekeeping matters like getting the witness water or talking about the p.o at the end of the deposition and i don't want to be tag-teamed and it was ridiculous and improper but i normally wouldn't call it out on the record but i've reviewed the transcript and i've done this to confirm this that there were questions on the floor about what a certain building was and whether it was the school or not and as part of his interruption mr enok blurted out to the

witness that it's the firehouse in the video a word that had not previously appeared in the deposition so of course right after that mr jones says quote and i later corrected you know that was one of the things that had been said that wasn't true was that they were at the firehouse there was there was other footage from the school at best this was highly improper conduct and it's exactly why we don't allow speaking objections in texas at worst it was an attempt to communicate an idea to the witness conduct which is absolutely repellent to the idea of justice yet on the following day the problems continued i only have a video not a transcript but once again mr enok repeatedly interrupted a deposition he was not defending at which he was simply an observer

and again i've watched the video to confirm and so is my co-counsel to confirm both of our memories that mr dew the corporate representative visibly reacted to a gesture from mr enok during a difficult question and mr augdon had to call him out on it and you can see mr dew's reaction and near his eyes are in the deposition during both depositions mr enok was repeatedly asked to leave the deposition if he refused to stay quiet he stayed but continued to interrupt i am putting this all on the record right now because this deposition began rather contentiously and my reaction to it was one of significant disturbance so there's a bit of a pattern of of behaviors here of disrupting these depositions in such a way as to

give answers to questions that's bad yeah what what year is this one's 2018 2018 yeah okay so so that's pretty early on i just want to to remind people all right this happened year one and mark had to deal with this continued type of shit for five fucking years yeah and mark has committed zero crimes afterwards that's amazing yeah this was one of the first uh the depositions that uh that they did i i i mean i i would if if mark was a serial killer right now i'd be like well i think it's wrong but i can understand how you get there and it's it's such an interesting uh way that these other lawyers that alex has had have been so frustrating and dickish in different ways and enok is kind of like one of the more lawyerly dickish yeah yeah

vibes yeah he feels like he's trying to use law uh to be an asshole whereas some of the other folks have just been like i don't know you're a dick yeah you want to fight yeah it has been a little bit of like childish kind of this is this is very much if you were watching a movie and an asshole lawyer was showing up this is what the asshole lawyer would do every single time this is the asshole lawyer yeah yeah whereas norm is more of the pull your pants down and say the n word kind of lawyer 100 percent yeah he's he's linel hutz yeah you know he's he's evil but he's also ridiculous yeah so also mark needs to put onto the record the discomfort surrounding what's happening because he is not in a position to defend uh rob jacobson's rights right i do not

feel i am equipped to defend this witnesses rights i don't represent him what is happening is totally inconsistent with the court's order we have attempted to contact the court because i believe the court would be would be wanting to have some sort of input on when an order like this only gives me the right to question whether mr enox should be allowed to question this witness who does not currently have counsel i'm very disturbed by this turn of events i want this all on the record in case the these matters need to be brought to the court in any kind of connection with sanctions right now i'm going to finish and i am going to ask mr jacobson to return to the room i'm going to tell mr jacobson that i've concluded with my deposition the deposition that was ordered

in the court's order and that i have no further need of him to be here i do not know what mr enox going to do at that point i do not know if mr enox going to attempt to try to keep the witness here i i don't know what's going to happen i do know that i am extremely concerned about a witness who was i mean about a lawyer who has already exhibited an incredible pattern of astonishing bad conduct in deposition to now take this very unorthodox term that being said those are my comments on the record i will allow mr jacobson to return to the room and allow him to make the decision in his own best interest and i do not intend to respond tit for tat which what i think is self-serving uh diatribe and i will respond appropriately when appropriate what a dick

what a dick yeah just a real piece of shit but that is that is a like pretty valid concern that mark has yeah about like if he's going to be grilled and questioned by his clearly antagonistic former employer's lawyer uh mark can't act as his lawyer no and so that is gonna be gonna be ugly yeah and so rob comes back in uh from the hallway mr jacobson that's all i have for you today thank you for your time mr bankston if i ask questions are you going to seek sanctions against me i'm like mr yeah rob mr jacobson are you leaving he's leaving apparently yeah so you just left immediately he just gets up right he comes in takes off his mic and then just fucking come get me yeah why would you why would i give a shit what you have to say oh

fucking you subpoena me if you want to if you want me to ask questions you're the one who introduced the bullshit subpoena thing yeah i am i am not here to answer your questions uh i don't have to be here i literally don't work for you yeah so that's uh that's kind of a nice resolution and uh end to the proceedings um but yeah i i you know as we as we reach the end of the deposition i i find myself feeling a lot different than i do with uh our our deposition episodes true like i told you on the last one that we did that that there was a couple that we had that are conflicting they're a little bit strange and this is a little bit strange to me because i just i think that the only thing that he has to be like i mean obviously i think you should own up to how shitty his entire

careers work has been at it for wars sure um but that's a matter for maybe a different venue right but the only thing he really has to apologize for is not doing more which is pointless right it wouldn't have done anything no um and he did something to his credit while he was there and then the only other thing he has to feel guilt for is not quitting and that is something he has to deal with on his own i i feel strange it is it is consistent though with topsy-turvy world in so far as the one thing that rob jaykinson rob Jacobson should feel like he he did commendably which is try and intervene in this situation is the one situation he feels guilt for not doing more or something and everything else he seems to be fine with yeah he seems to think

that there is a a plausible way to claim what like end game is good journalism or a good documentary i don't know he should do a check out that bibliography for yeah no shit um ways good journalism uh putting a mic microsoft encarta as just your pure reference it it helps it's a good thing yeah um i feel a little bit even conflicted about the idea that this is like recovering this but i mean it's a deposition there's there's something interesting there's an insight into info wars in some way yeah and so i don't know the here's here's where i'm at yeah here's here's what i come back to over and over again okay like he and paul joseph watson are two people who spoke out against the sandy hook coverage right demonstrably at the time and i think that paul's reaction

makes much more sense in his deposition he was like yeah i thought that was shit yeah i thought that was i thought that was really bad i told them not to do it but he's not bending over backwards to try and uh pretend that you're like there isn't a larger thing right that it's a part of right that's that's the thing that makes this so different for me like when i hear paul's deposition like yeah that'll make sense this doesn't i mean i i suppose that's that's an argument of different expectations for for different psychopaths i mean like paul very i just as just as much as on the hook for not quitting but he doesn't care that's that that's the difference but that makes sense it makes sense it only makes sense if you don't care it really does that's no i understand yeah i understand

and we're grappling with somebody who appears to care yeah and who appears to not be lying or at least i can't sense any lies from him i don't necessarily think he's lying but his actions don't track with somebody who cares no and that's the part that is really really tough to understand yes and i i guess you know people act differently in different circumstances i i don't know what other pressures existed in his life or or whatever oh what a strange animal is man yeah i i don't know i don't know man i i don't know i wonder how things would be different if he didn't get fired in 2017 i wonder how things would be different if they got sued for end game i wonder how different these things would play out uh in slightly different circumstances

yeah i don't know i just don't know i've not been as confused by deposition as as i have this one perhaps yeah yeah yeah because i don't know if there's much to take away from it other than this person is uniquely situated inside of this company at this time 13 years for 13 years and look at how weird this shit is you know he was there for 13 years doesn't seem to understand that his fundamental complaints about stuff apply to the entirety of the time he was there um uh man what is he thinking yeah it hurts my brain to try and put myself in a space where what he's done can be reconciled with what he's saying that's yeah you know what i'm saying it hurts my brain to try and fit cognitive dissonance in there that is so expansive as to encompass a

man's entire career yeah well i guess we'll continue to wrestle with that someday somehow perhaps we will discover the truth but i'd still on on whatever level i appreciate that he has you know i appreciate first of all that he internally uh stood up about this at the time i commend that commendable um and i think it takes a certain amount of courage to come out in the way that he has true uh you know while someone like enok is trying to intimidate you with this nda yeah you know i i just i guess i wish uh you can't always get what you want as dr house uh once said he said that multiple times yeah um but like i would wish that the diagnosis was more comprehensive yeah about like because i think that he could conceivably

have a wealth of information about how these same problems that he has about the sandy hook stuff and about milley weaver and all this applies to the fundamental business model in the way right inforores operates um but i don't i i mean i don't i don't really know quite how to quite how to react to somebody who is clearly contrite or at least uh you know giving off every appearance of such and experiencing remorse for that but there it's not a an incident it's not a thing that they did yeah it is their entire career so how exactly do you say that oh well we're on a road redemption arc or anything along those lines when it's like you have a redemption no there isn't you did the incident doesn't involve you exactly the only involves you in

as much as you worked there and you didn't stop working and the redemption that the redemption that you want is impossible to get because you didn't do it and the redemption you need is something that you're not looking for what are you doing man it's confusing anyway we're not gonna get answers on this so today at least we will just uh end this by saying um it is uh wednesday and so the tickets to the second live show uh should be live at 10 am central time central time um and so if you'd like to grab those please do be nice and we'll be back uh but until then we have a website it's true it's knowledge right dot com yep we're all on twitter we are on twitter it's at knowledge underscore fight yep we'll be back but until then i'm neo i'm leo i'm

dzx clark i'm also dan and you know what i like dan and now here comes the sex robot andy and chan's us you're on the air thanks for holding hello alex i'm a first-time caller i'm a huge fan i love your work i love you