Knowledge Fight - #842: Amanda Moore Returns

Episode Date: August 25, 2023

In this installment, Jordan sits down with Amanda Moore to chat about her time undercover, names that should not exist, and Ron DeSantis's rizz.

I Ready Not knowledge fight Damn and Jordan I am sweating Knowledge fight that comes it's time to pray I have great respect for knowledge fight knowledge fight I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys. Shang. I have great respect for knowledge, Faith. Knowledge, Faith. I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys. Shang-ni are the bad guys.

Knowledge, Faith. Dan and Jordan, Knowledge, Faith. N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N Hello everyone, welcome to Knowledge Fight. Unfortunately, I am alone again without my co-host Ann. However, I am today joined by Amanda Moore. Thank you so much for coming onto the show. Thanks for having me. Amanda, you are famous now, I think, for, well, obviously there's the undercover stuff.

But I read in a piece a couple of years ago, I think it was that you investigated, in your own words, gold diggers, boyfriends? Yeah, you should do that. Okay, so that's what this interview is entirely about. I understand you were doing research. You didn't undercover stuff. I understand you were doing research. You did undercover stuff. I understand all of that.

All I want to know. I wonder how many of those blueprints were also at January 6th and retrospect. Isn't that the question? No. So yes, no, please. You just have a piece just came out in the nation. Could you kind of give our listeners a little bit of a background for you during the pandemic?

Your job was like most everybody else is busted, right? Yeah. And then you decided to go undercover. Yeah. Everybody was doing something during the pandemic, you know? And I'd always wanted to be a writer or a journalist, but a pay-shit. But when your job is gone, it doesn't matter anymore. Yeah, it doesn't matter what you do. So I went to the South of Steele rallies and you know, I'd always go like, gone, I live in DC. So I'd always go on to like, Laura Lumer gives to one hinge rally behind my

office one day and I went to that. I'm just going to observe and like Laura Lumer gives to one hinge rally behind my office one day and I went to that. I'm just gonna observe and like, you know, I like a blog I would write on. I'm gonna say, well, maybe I'll sell some audio maybe I'll sell like a blog post or something maybe, you know, whatever. We'll see.

We'll see what happens. All of a sudden, everyone's storming the capital. I'm like, I think this is a lot bigger than a blog post. And the rest of the capital. I'm like, I think this is a lot bigger than a blog post. And the rest of the history. I do, I do appreciate that in this one situation, we're not dealing with like a jump cut that's, that's a family guy reference. Like, oh, the next thing, you know, people are overrunning the capital. That'd be that happen. That's where you were. That's how it was. Yeah, that was wild. It was really wild too. Because you know, that summer, I, back in like 2014 and 15, I've been to a lot of black Lives Matter protests,

especially at the Bolton War. And I, I didn't go to so many in 2020 because I was super depressed and broken, just like generally unhappy, internally. But I went to one and broken. I'm just like, generally unhappy internally. But I went to one and it happened to be the one with a president. It's tear gas, everybody. So you can hold a Bible upside down for a photo. We're like marching to the capitol. Nothing's going on. And I'm like, wow, I remember when we were just standing.

We were tear gas. And here we go today,. We were to your cast. And here we go today, straight on, straight on inside. I mean, I didn't have to go inside. I wanted to, but I, a reporter, I know, ran into me and he was like, you're not going inside. You're actually leaving now, we're leaving. Yeah, I don't know.

I wonder, I wonder if you're, you know, like, no, I was going undercover for blog posts would, would sell if you were right next to Stewart Rhodes on the stand. I just love the guy, I don't know. I just listened, I was undercover to do a thing. So I was wondering, as we go back through this, so as you just pointed out, you know, in the 2014-2015 area,

you're going through a, we're all going through a period where, you know, Black Lives Matter protests, we're fighting all of those things. Just a few years before that, you know, relatively speaking, you're in more January six people territory that, you know, relatively speaking, you're in more January six people territory again, you know, so you grew up in an environment That led you to be a libertarian at at 12 or if that's what I read correctly, right? Yeah, I read a Larry elder book

And I became a libertarian at 12 so the, like, his real Larry Elder, that's, that's the moral of the story. Yeah, it happened. No. Larry Elder and the, uh, Sorcerer Stone was my favorite book, but next time I think he's gonna have to step up his game, uh, is, you know, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, J.K., you can meet him on Transphobia now, where you could, we're in, we're real trouble. Yeah, but tell me a little bit more about growing up like that, because I feel like your childhood kind of informed your ability to chameleon yourself

into the far right that easily, right? Yeah, for sure. So my dad is still in the Evangelicals except for Christianity, that's what I grew up in. My dad's pastor right now, reuses people from the dead, has a mega church, all like that stuff. And so I broke my arm and I was in a cover

and I was at a Cuban on conference and people were praying in tongues with my arm. And afterwards, people were like, how did you deal with that? And you've never heard someone bring a tons before? Weird. Totally. No, but what's funny about that is I was at a god camp when I was 15.

I was working a god camp. I broke my arm and you better believe I got some prayer over it in tongues. So yeah. Yeah. I'm right there with you. That was everybody. Yeah. And that my mom is a two time Obama voter who also voted for Trump. So yeah, I'm right there with you. That was everybody. Yeah, and that my mom is a two-time Obama voter

who also voted for Trump twice. Yeah, she's the only one in America that New York Times did an interview, and just her and the public get her now. So, I was also like an aviast. I kind of had a foot in each world growing up, and then I've always had politics, I was a brighting. And so, you know, libertarianism was like huge.

Like I, I mean, the black lives matter marches in 2014 to 15. And then Trump becoming the de facto libertarian candidate or why I left the party. And it was like a gradual, for the same way, like, leaving religion took a few years. It was like, oh, I'm not religious,

or I'm a religious, I'm non-nominational. I'm agnostic, I'm an ethically atheist. Sure. It's the same thing with the vegetarian party. And like, it was like, I don't like how we're handling black clothes matter. And I don't like how we're handling these things. And then Trump came down the escalator

and Gary Johnson, people didn't like him. They like Trump over Gary Johnson. And I was, you know, it took several years to walk away completely, but I did. And so, all these things, you know, because there is a direct libertarian to all right, pipeline. As a direct libertarian to inside the capital pipeline, as it were. And so, yeah, I think that's kind of what prepared me. And so also why it was interested in it. Yeah, I mean, one of the lines, let me see if I can't find it.

I believe it was Nelson, maybe. Alex Nelson was talking to a recruiter for the Patriot Front website and the recruiter said at one point, like, keep at conservatism in a wink. That'll get you to anti-Semitism kind of thing. Keep out, you can eventually you'll hate the Jews, right? And it is very much like the way you just described it. It's so much like, wow, the Libertarian Party

isn't so much a party as it is a conveyor belt to problems. Yeah, and you know, I mean, something could have been done about that. And you look at, it's like the former head of the party, like the guys that, one of the guys I know at a cover, Shane Treho, used to like, make this guy's a life hell, Nick, his name is Nick. And like he would write all these articles about Nick being a

cuck's conservative, a wolf or Terry and all that stuff. And it's like, I mean, I'm not seeing this next fall, but like on the individual level, like at the county levels where we were in the state levels, you know, people will come in and it's like, that guy's a fucking Nazi. And you know, it's like, oh, you can't just call people Nazis, we're not the left. And it's like, well, he just did a Hitler's slew. Like, I'm not saying, you know, and it's like, oh, you can't just call people Nazis. We're not the left. And it's like, well, he just did a Hitler's slew. Like, I'm not saying, you know?

And it's like, oh, well, you know, it's better not to punch that way. Like, we can't, you know, and it's just like, this is Nile. And, you know, I was completely out with the time you night the Ray hop in. But, you know, I feel like if we had stood up stronger and more numbers, we could have kept them out of the party.

And who knows if maybe I would still be a libertarian. Maybe I wouldn't have been pushed so far to the left, kind of the opposite or effect of what they wanted. And now of course, we see this happening in the GOP, like the libertarian party is a disaster. You've got the libertarian party in New Hampshire at the state level, which has not been, you know, an anti-federated, they're a member of the national party,

tweeting out the 14 words. But insteadederated, they're a member of the National Party tweeting out the 14 words, but instead of whites, they're staying with veterans. You know, it's a joke and now those saying people are kind of trying to get into the GOP and do the same thing there. Yeah. I mean, you know, that's a really interesting question

as far as like, are they trying to get into the GOP? You know, that's a really interesting question. As far as like, are they trying to get into the GOP? You know? Well, I have private chats of Gavin Waxes and Shane Trehoes. I have their private chats. Oh, no, no, no, no, that's not what I mean. I'll obvious. Oh, okay.

I was gonna say, I'm trying to get... I've got the DTL blueprints. Oh, no, no, no, no. I'm speaking more of like, are they really trying to keep them out? Did they ever even really try and keep them out? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, a bigger deal than like they want to emit, because so many of the people who are running for president on the Republican ticket are bizarrely pro-Russia, or at least not willing to condemn Russia as we saw last night at the debate.

And I just, I don't know, like these are things, I think, you know, maybe the, maybe the best case scenario for us is we just have a crumbled little GOP that's like five different factions that are also fighting each other at all times. That'd be great, honestly. I mean, it might be great, electorally, on a national level. On the other hand, it might be bad physically for all humans. That could be an issue for the rest of us. I mean, that is a fascinating thing, though, is, and it comes up again, when you were in January 6th, the way you described it, the way that the crowd was functioning, there were people who saw the violence start happening and the cops start attacking the violent people and they were going, yeah, get them.

Not realizing that we ourselves are those violent people. Yeah, yeah. And in the same way, this is kind of another expression of that, you know, like we think of ourselves as the like we're anti, we're pro, United States, and Rocky IV, you know, that whole thing. And yet, wait a second, we're voting for the guy, we're voting for Drogo. What's happening right now?

Yeah, yeah, it is. And the disconnect too between, I mean, just like people are not living in reality, not living on planet Earth, you know, like, especially some of the like extreme Trumpers who, you know, it's just with, how do you even talk to these people? Like, it's a regular Republican. You'd be like, Hey, here's why your economics of policy is shit. You know, you have to be like, some of these people, you have to be like, I say, I don't think the Donald Trump is a time traveler. I think he probably doesn't travel for time. You know, it's just, it's very, it's very hard to, so that leads to my next question,

right? And this is a question I ask myself pretty regularly. Um, do you think you're connected to reality? Do you know what I mean? It's hit or miss. You were libertarian just a short while ago. Did you feel like you were less connected to reality than than you are now? Or is it really that your relationship to reality has just changed? I mean, I think so there's like multiple kinds of libertarians, right? There's the pedophile kind. Sure.

There's the 14 words kind. I was going to go ahead and say, I was not the pedophile kind or was I the 14 words kind. I was more go ahead and say, I was not the pedophile kind or was I the 14 words kind. I was more like- You were the 14 pedophiles kind. Yeah, yeah, you got me. Don't tell Jim Searth and- Oh.

You know, I always thought like we should probably have schools and roads. I think roads are good. I like roads. I think roads are good. I like roads. But maybe we should not have so much with war, that kind of thing. And where programs need to exist, what changed for me is seeing, like, I think the government does a pretty fish pretty fissuity job with a lot of social welfare programs across the board and but I would still at this point rather they are doing it than the private sector. And so that's really what shifted for me like my actual belief system of

who is deserving of things and in that kind of stuff. I never really changed. It's just where is the money coming from? And a lot of that, I mean, I remember being in Baltimore after Freddie Gray was murdered. And being like, you know, looking around and being like, we're the fucking libertarians at. They're the ones you say, like, when things happen, it falls on the individual to come and fix it.

And that's not who's here. Old pain taxes, whatever. You know, like, well, that's something fucking, I mean, come on, you can't, you can't just build a lot of pain taxes, so I'll never get off my ass. Like, you have to do the work in addition to, in addition to the forced taxes that you're paying. And so, you know, that is like what changed for me.

And that is a perception of not what is real or what is not, but like how do most people actually come to action, no matter how much they run their mouth, no matter how much they run their mouth, about how they are gonna be there to support inner city schools and kids, they're never gonna fucking do it. And so that is like what changed for me. So I, you know, I don't, I, I've never thought Trump

was a time traveler for instance. You know that kind of stuff. But yeah, so I guess maybe, maybe that. I think I think that's a really, really good answer because I don't know if my question was terribly clear but you got to kind of what I was hoping to hear. The question about that though, then is like, okay, so are you and I talking about a difference

in orthodox libertarian belief? And that's the schism that led to you rejecting libertarian as a concept. Or is it a situation wherein you realize that everybody wasn't actually being Orthodox libertarian and they were talking shit all the time. And you were just like, well, I don't want to be part of everybody talking shit. Yeah, I mean, it was that. And it was also, I mean, infiltrationration of white nationalists into the party was very clear

to anybody who was listening. And, you know, I'm from DC and I moved, I moved from DC to Dallas and I just remember in 2018, Christmas Day 2012, so effectively 2013. I just remember getting faced with people, libertarians in Texas. When there was that shooting in Paris at a nightclub or concert, I can't remember so long ago now. To remember like my fellow libertarians in Texas being like, oh, well, that could never happen here because everybody has a gun. And I'm like, hey, asshole, look up the Texas liquor laws.

If you have a gun in a nightclub, you're going to jail. And it would be like, I don't know what you're talking about. Yeah, yeah, I can do. Like, here's the tabsy rules. Like, you know, and it's just the concept frustration with people having this idealistic version of how the world works. The left does it too. I mean, everybody does it.

But not really applying that to reality. You have this difference in the way people view stuff, and their biases that they bring in. It's also like just not telling white nationalists to get fucked. Yeah, I mean, like, I knew people who ended up in the Proud Boys who ended up, you know, all these organizations, I mean, Christopher Catwell, crying Nazi from Charlottesville. He was, you know, kind of known as like the, the anti-acop guy, everybody knew who he was. And it took, you know, everyone knows it asshole, but it really took Charlottesville, people

to be like, hey, fuck that guy. And it probably shouldn't take a white, nationalist march, you know? Of course, someone's murdered, but it's you get people to be like, hey, we gotta get rid of this guy. Yeah, yeah, you know, it really shouldn't. Sometimes things should be that simple. I thought of it, you know, the problem with questions like that is you say that and I immediately think of like

15 different practical, real, politic reasons why we're stuck in this scenario. But the real answer is, yeah, fuck that. That shouldn't be happening. What are we doing? Yeah. What is going on here? Yeah, you know, and it's like, I was at the

Young Republican National Convention last weekend, which was pretty funny because my article came out while I was there. And one of the guys who was in the article was there and he was very mad at me. Oh, yeah. But, you know, yeah. But some of them, you know,

would be like, why do you care so much? And like, first, I don't really know. I just by chance, I made this guy's friends when I was undercover. So this is my beat now. But also, like, you know, I did watch this happen already. Like, I watch as a bunch of people, you know, look the other way.

Well, people like Gavadwax, literally, Gavadwax, did a a authoritarian party. You know, literally the same people. I wrote down in my notes, I refused to believe that name is real. I refused it on principle to believe that Gavin Wax, an 80s super villain name is also a 2023 real life villain's name. That's fucking disgusting to me Gavin Mario locks by the way Gavin Mario get the fuck out Jesus Christ Fucking bad guy and happy Gilmore should be played by that fucking guy. Jesus Christ. Oh My god

Anyways, I can't focus on I can't focus on that right now because I'm gonna get distracted by how much I hate his name. But that is another connection that you have there. Which is another thing that I find, like so my last interview was with Taliya Lavin, who had gone undercover in a more online space. Right?

You have gone undercover in a literal meat space as the people my age used to say a long time ago. And so I find it, I find the decision to go undercover to be that like, you know, I have to do something that that personal nexus point. Why did you suddenly go like, I have to do something, you know, because when you're describing with the libertarian party is essentially that. I'm watching people talk shit and I'm sick of it. I need something, I need to do something to make a positive impact on my belief system,

right? Yeah, I mean, I really didn't tend to go under the current way that they did. I really thought I would just go to stuff and record it. And after January 6, I bought a ticket to CPAC. And I flew down there thinking a lot of reporters can't travel right now. They're not allowed. Their outlets aren't gonna seem to CPAC.

Like they can't, you know, whatever. I could probably just get some audio and sell it to the reporters. Or like another reporter seems to be like an outlet or something. You're hustling. Yeah, and I kind of got recruited while I was there. And so, yeah, I mean, I like a little loose back story

that I was telling people, and I was very sorry to somebody in my real life, you know, I was Lord charian, I was a little bit mayor, I said I still lived in Maryland, whatever. But yeah, it wasn't like I sat like, on my real life, you know, it was Lord charian, I love it. I was said I still lived in Maryland, whatever. But yeah, it wasn't like I sat down, it was like, this is my plan. You know, I'm gonna get in and do this. I just, it just happened,

which really pisses people off. People don't like that answer. But, you know, that's kind of, people like that answer. I love that answer. Yeah, but we're like kind of curious and sometimes I hate because people who don't get the background, who don't get the natural life long interest in it,

they're like, what are you, you know, like this is sketchy, this is weird. But yeah, it's like, it's kind of always, who has been where it's just like, all right, this is what we're doing now, okay, cool. Yeah. And yeah. And so I don't find that too different

from Beauty and the Beast. Truly like Bell being picked up. I don't find it too. And believe me, I identified with Bell. All right, that library, that's what I dreamt of. So I'm with you. That's very funny. So you got recruited.

So and who was it, Shane himself who recruited you? Like right out there. Yeah. Yeah. So Shane. It was Shane. Okay. So so Shane comes up and he's like, Hey, there's no way you're somebody with a passing interest in becoming an undercover agent. Right. That was his first sentence. Yeah, he was like, you're normal, right? Right, all right. You're totally, totally not going to kill me. And then, but I appreciate in your story,

it is, it is a certain amount of just like a general affability and quietude. And these guys will be like, well, yeah, obviously, women love what I say all the time. If they're being quiet and just staying around me. Yeah, yeah, you know what's really funny is when I met Shane, his organization was having like an event, Laura Lumer, who was speaking and so was Marge Taylor Gregg and Paul Kusar, and within a couple of minutes of meeting Shane, the director, the executive director of

the organization was like, I think that person back there was a journalist, and I'm like, oh, really? Which person? And I watched him pick somebody out for possibly maybe being a journalist because she was looking around sketchy. And I'm just like, wow, in case they were really bad at it.

I thought it was the being throughout the time I was at a cover, I watched multiple field get kicked out of events for being journalists. They were probably not journalists at all. Yeah, but never make. Never make. No, it's, it's weird. I'm going to tell you another secret from, uh, for, for, these are the same type of people who are like, I'm pretty sure that's a

which and then murdered some. They're not, they're not good at this. No, not at all. That's all in their own heads. Hahaha. Oh, man. Oh, there's so many, there's so many fun little interesting stories.

Like you, you being at the Kirk Cameron anti drag show story time hour somehow? Yeah, well that was just a couple of months ago. I just went and there were a lot of adults for the children's story time hour. A disproportionate amount of adults, the children that were there were primarily siblings, so maybe four of the children to one adult,

but then you know, so why do you have so many adults? I who knows? I think we all know. I think we all know those books are not for kids. Those books are not for children. Lips of Tix off was there. Yeah. I'm higher.

She was, I think it was the first time I've ever interacted with a child. Oh boy. Yeah, she was real weird with kids. Yeah, so tell me more about how that came about. Obviously, we all know that conservative parents see children being read to and they go, ah, like that. Yeah.

We know that they get mad about it. Why is it that they started trying to read to children themselves? That's what confuses me. Wow. There's a lot of money and getting parents chewed by books for their kids that are for them. So, Brady of the books started this genius idea of getting all of the worst influencers you've ever heard of to collaborate on creating children's books. So whatever your niche thing is, your niche culture war issue is, they'll help you write a book about it,

except they did tell me Sean Spicer and sisted on being extremely hands-on with his book, which when you hear his book, it's all about people. Oh, he's got a creative bone in his body. Why, I find that more, that almost makes him be endeared to him. Compared to these other like listless assholes, letting somebody turn on a children's book with their name on it.

Sean Spicer doesn't put his name on Drek. And Sean Spicer's book was all like, and sometimes maybe you get the wrong impression about people. And sometimes when you think that people are doing something wrong, maybe they're trying their best to do a good thing, but you can't pull it from the outside. I put the audio on my substaff because I'm like, bro, are you okay? He was reading the book and I'm like, do we need to get you help? Brody children's book that's a hand being like, everybody was so fucking mean to me. Everybody's so mean to me. I was just trying to do my job, man. I'm not, yeah, I'm not even an I'm just a guy.

I'm just a guy. You don't even know my story. Children's book. I'm just a guy, man. Come on. Yeah, it was it was really good. It is by far the best rating because of how clearly personal it was. it was really good. It is by far the best rating because of how clearly personal it was. That's fantastic. Okay, so they've got all the... So Brave Books now creates like Bespoke, Children's Book, books for shitheads. How do they all get together to read them? Wow. I think that Hata was here for high lips of TikTok. I think that she was here for something else, maybe on the hill. There must have been something going on. And of course,

the Soviet Union spicer live here, you know, Pacific North America. And he's not too far away. So they're both locals. I think, so I think Hado was here for an event. And um, they were like, oh, we'll do this. And you have, it was at the Pellithic Library. So they can't turn people away. Right. And they were like, clearly ready for protesters.

Like, I don't mean like armed, I mean, like spiritually, they were ready to be oppressed. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, we're so important. We're so like, this is a revolutionary act we're taking. The reading of a hastily pressed book we had nothing to do with. Yeah, yeah, and Unfortunately for them, there were no protesters.

No, no, because no one cares. No, no, I'm scared. No one cares. So yeah, it was, it was, I mean, it's also like DC, like, I was like the middle of the day on a weekday during this year So, you know, yeah Children are famously free on Tuesdays at noon right no, and I can I mean I know it seems like way I may be jumping back and forth

But the reason that this jumps out at me is because back on January 6th You know when you're describing the way these people see reality versus the way it is the reason that this jumps out at me is because back on January 6th, when you're describing the way these people see reality versus the way it is. And when you're walking around on January 6th, people all around you going like, hey, don't walk around alone. Don't be alone.

You're the people that she should be afraid of. That's kind of the situation there. And the same thing is going on here. They're creating this enemy that's around the corner at all the time. And it's just not, they are the problem. Yeah, it's just this boogie man situation. I mean, like, the lead up to January 6, there was a rally in December 2020 and it was, it was like haunting. I don't even

describe it. I'm sure my friends wish that I would shut up about it because for like weeks, I mean, probably until the 6th, I was just like, man, this was really bad. Like, I, these people are out of their minds and they're not like saying that lightly. I mean, like, literally the perceived threats that they were saying and the concern, if I walked across the street, to be like, I try to go buy a red bull or something and people were like oh my god. Walgreens, there's many enemies afoot and I'm like, uh, coming out the Walgreens. Well, let's tell you, I'm like cool with the fuck. Um, just like, how did they mind?

It's like, it's like, what is happening? Uh, and, and so I, I did not notice that to the same extent at the November rally. And I think maybe some of that, it was partially people getting their bearings and understanding the city and it, because a lot of people came back for all three. And also, you know, people like your friend Alex trying to whip everyone up into paranoid frenzy.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're not gonna have an event like that and not have him making appearance, come on now. That's the event of the season. It is, I stood in December 12th, 2020, probably, I don't know, 10 p.m. I stood in front of the JW Marriott and chanted 1776 with Alex Jones, big highly of my life.

Yeah. Oh, and earlier that day, he ran into me. It was great. He just barreled on into me. Just moving forward. Yeah, he had a broken megaphone and he was trying to interrupt Millie Weaver's speech. And I was standing between him and Millie, so I had to be kind of. There's so many apropos images that you evoke throughout all of this. Alex holding a broken megaphone, annoying Millie Weaver is like a poignant visage.

Also, like, here's how fucked up I am because of your podcasts. Yeah, people around me are like, aren't they friends? And I'm like, actually, let me tell you a little. Really? What? I think people who are like in the war, so it's like real specific. That's you.

No, no, no, no, no, let me explain to you where everybody in Star Trek stands in relation to each other in the U.N. Okay. I know you think you're a fan, but listen. That is very funny. And then it gets back to the false reality thing. That's what I keep coming back to.

With your story, I keep finding so many different moments where the people who are being honest, like Alex Nelson, I think, is the one in your most recent piece who's like, hey, yeah, I know Biden won. I still think we should have done January 6th because fuck those people, you know, like that kind of thing, right? Yeah. To me, when I hear that, what fascinates me is that you would not have gotten a, you would not have had January 6th if you hadn't lied people into it. Do you know what I mean? Like you could not have convinced even these idiots straight up just like, hey, fuck it,

let's overthrow the government. Yeah, yeah. They had to, they had to make up a fun little story about that. And I feel like that same kindred issue there for you with libertarianism. They just keep making up all this bullshit and expecting us to cram it down our throats. Does that track? Yeah, me. So, yeah, that's where I'm at there. What I'm trying to say is keep at conservatism. I think if you keep going.

You just got to do it until you know the juice can't really be Americans. That's right. Yeah, I know what that was. I was like, why? Yeah, yeah. That one is nuts. That's actually another question that I want to go into. No, they're Americans.

They really can be. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, How much of this is dudes trying to impress other dudes in a jerk circle that never ends? Here's what I think happens. I don't think happen with Trump. As I think, I think about the Trump campaign, I mean not the official campaign, but the way it played out, especially on the internet.

Let's say you don't like Jewish people, and let's say your racist. I think this, I think the edge-lord, meme warfare thing created a culture where instead of just passively being just trustful Jewish people or passively like avoiding black people are just maybe not even really knowing anything. These things became fixtures in the front of people's minds in a way that I,

you know, maybe it wouldn't have otherwise. And so I'm not saying it's like fine to be passively racist, but you know, there's a difference between being passive racist and being obsessively fixated on something, which is what happened, I think, for a lot of people. And so I think maybe some of these people don't even really know the answer to the question themselves. I think that it's now just become like a cultural and social thing to be this edgelord caricature of a person. And I don't know the people really know where their identities begin and end anymore. I mean, it's like for the more extreme elements, like not for regular people or whatever. And I think as you look at people who are

walking away from the front movement, you kind of see that. And it's like, I mean, I don't really deal with people who are reformed or reforming. That's not really my lane. I don't really, like I, I don't say I don't care, but like I just, I don't care to deal with it. I don't care to make assessments. I don't care to assist with what I'm doing before.

You know, not my job. So, but not my lane on my job. So my sister is a, my sister is a special at elementary school teacher. So she got 100% of the patience between us, you know, like she's a very kind of patient. I'm like, oh, shut up, put up gonna fuck you. Perfect. Like so, it's not, I don't have a personality boy.

But I do interact with these people sometimes. And I do see people like trained on their own, like how do I really feel about things. Like, you have to do a program and separate yourself. And so I think it's both. I think there are people who are very interested in the idea of an ethnicity, and would actually like to work to make it happen. And there are other people who are,

would have, in a different situation, just continued to be passively racist until they died, but who got whipped up into the idea of it and became something else. Sure, sure. If it weren't for this asshole, I would have run a store and I've kind of been an asshole to people and no one could ever have truly proven

that I was racist. Yeah. Thanks to this guy. Now I'm all out over the place throwing my business around, right? Yeah, now I'm at American Renaissance and I'm writing hateful streets that are going to share it around. Yeah. I was thought later now.

I was so close. I could have just been a guy and now I'm a massive internet racist. Oh. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think I think I have been fairly often you know, and I do I Do think I'm gonna be clear like I was like I am like

Not so dedicated to the crap, but I'm gonna like be a hooky mouthful with a fascist So I did have to find like like Nelson was way more interested in being racist than like cocaine and like sex with random people, right? Which, you know, that's a really good point to bring up. There is a selection bias based around people who are racist enough to get over the fact that they are not horny right now.

Yeah, now, truly, I would be a lot of this culture. It's like, I turned out a lot of coke and I turned out a lot of x is I turned out a lot of XC. Yeah. And so it's wise move. Yeah, yeah, sorry. And so I don't know. I feel like, I think if maybe some people are really

under the part being aspect of the culture too. And so it is just also more shit talk for them, but there are certainly people who are dedicated to it. Yeah. I mean, since you were undercover in it, when you're talking about, you know, like, how do people keep their identity together? And maybe they don't really know where there's is. How did you maintain yours? I mean, obviously not doing Coke and ecstasy helps a great deal in maintaining one sense of self. Naturally. But how did you maintain kind of your concept of, I am Amanda, despite the fact that you

gave your fake persona Amanda's name. My advice don't do that, but continue. Oh, I know I would not respond to a fake name. I know who I am. I know. It would be like Heather, Heather, Heather. And I'd be like, who the fuck is Heather? Why do we? That's that's secretly why Craig Robinson is named Craig and everything he's in. Yeah, you know, I just, I don't think I really thought about.

I mean, it would get kind of weird. Like if I met new people in my real life, I'd have to like switch gears, not to not be like racist, but just like I used my mother's maiden name with a new mother. I didn't mean to say that to you, you're a regular person.

That's to my race. You're just a normal. I'm undercover, I apologize. And I gotta explain the whole thing. Like yeah, you would have to explain the whole thing if you broke a long time. Yeah, so that never happened. But you know, I would be like, oh, my name's made of lily.

I mean, no, it's more. I'll like shit like that. Just smaller stuff, but I will say it. Maybe this is some weird trauma response to like, participating in a lunatic religion. I really didn't find it very hard. It's like I went to this stuff and then I came back. I was like, okay, let's go drink again. Let's drink. When COVID wasn't like soulful swing,

so the park and found drinks. Still, if you still have to go, you know. That's like the first day and it's, you know, after that it's kind of fine. I mean, I was also pretty fortunate in the like, it's, you know, after that it's kind of fine. I mean, I was also pretty fortunate in the like, my friends who were interested in this kind of stuff and I, you know, I'd friends who have reporters and so I would call and I could decompress with a journalist covering, you know, this kind of stuff for like an hour and instead of having to like start from zero to explain to somebody like, okay, this is what a problem is. Right. So I was very fortunate in that regard. But yeah, you know, I just, I, I just am unable to do it. I'm very good at compartmentalizing.

Yeah. Do you find, do you find any part of that like snuck its way and, and you're, that's unexamined? Like, do you ever find that world coming through? I picked up a lot of the slang, Christopher. Like a lot. You know, be careful of the mask you wear, kind of idea. Yeah, yeah.

I really think it was like slang, which is probably, I mean, I rest, it's probably fine because it's like leftist internet culture has awesome adopted right wing, like, you know, me or S.P.K. you know, and so it's kind of like whatever. Yeah, not so much, not really. I mean, because if I was gonna, I had an opportunity to believe all of this stuff growing up. I was an active decision to not participate in this world. I feel like once you make that the first time? Oh God, I like was like religion is probably not so great by with the eyes like 17, you know like 17 really yeah

Yeah, I think it probably took like five years to be like I'm not religious at all, but yeah Why Well, it's about to school until high school. And I it was just like, yeah, dumb shit. I'm not, this isn't an interrogation. I'm not sure I don't need a good answer. No, I mean, like actual dumb shit where it's like, you know, you're like, okay, well, if everything's in the levels right, then why was Paul like? Don't have sex, but if you have to have sex get married because the end of days is coming and it's like nobody can answer that for you when you're like a Levin, yeah, you know, it kind of messes with your your Fade in the air, but it doesn't a great big dramatic thing. It doesn't need to be a giant arguing with God in a tornado. You can just be like, nah, I'm out.

Yeah, yeah, I guess this is making us in less sense. The rules are weird. I'd a teacher would be like, really? I liked Buffy the Vampire Slayer. And I was like, are weird. We had a full travel session. You know, a whole chapel session

about how Buffy the Vampire Slayer was like a demonic show. I'm like, this is about me. Just say it's about Amanda. Like, this is a personal message from God, I guess. And it just like, it's like, why are you like, I'm like, I'm like 12. What are you doing? Don't do this, you know?

Oh, I had the, when I was around that age, that was when the very first Harry Potter came out. And the collection of elderly women in my church gave me 12, 13 year old Jordan this book, being like, can you read this to make sure that it's not demonic? You know, like in case our children read it, can you make sure, oh, you almost all ladies in gentlemen, I have to say I almost elicited a full spit take.

We've all missed out on a full on spit take. It is a disaster that I will regret for the rest of my life. You kept it in! Why would they tell its father old to be the enubis? No! Semonic books. Because I was the one who would know, I swear to you, I have no idea. There's no reasonable explanation and no answer anyone has ever given me actually make sense.

This might be demonic. Anyway, you're 12 now. I mean, right. If it is, do I have some sort of power to bulwark myself against it? If it is demonic, what am I going to tell you the truth? Well, no, because you're possessed. No, I would be possessed.

What did you read it? Did you tell them? Did you tell them how fat it was? I read them all. I'll tell you what. I think they were right. Retrospect hindsight being 2020. Look where the office are. Real bitch. I mean, I'm going to be honest. It makes me a little bit frustrated to think that if those ladies had kept everybody from reading Harry Potter, we would all be better off.

I'd probably have given it to a 13 year old, something more reasonable, I'm sure. I know, it's probably my fault to be honest. So then I mean, I wanna ask you, because your work is continuing. You're obviously not done writing or, you know, you're done going undercover in very specific places I assume, right? I'm done undercover completely, but I'm not done right about the gal Gavin wax much to his life. Oh, fucking give him a better name. Tell him to change his name. Tell him to learn the forms of the podcast knowledge fight. Says he needs to get a shit together and change.

Well, people in his circle, like, oh, some of his friends were recently on InfoWars, as excited universe. So our worlds are cool. I do every time it happens, I messaged him, like, what the fuck is this? He's like, I don't speak for Owen Troyer. Harrison, I don't speak for Harrison.

You should, you should speak for him because I don't like it. I speak for no man but myself. So yeah, so what's, like, how do you move forward from here? So, I mean, the thing is, I somehow stumbled upon some of the nods just like them in. Maybe in America, when I was in a cover. And I'm like an ambulance, Jason. Gavin Wax will have these big public fights with people who have been his close friends for years.

And I'll have them on Twitter, quote, tweet them and bully them. And I'm like, hi, my name is Amanda, we don't have much in common. Except we do have one interest that we share. And that's Gavin wax. I would love to talk to you better. And know, so I guess I'm writing a profile. Have you been heard by Gavin wax? Please go, 1-8-8-5-0-1-5-5-5-5. If you've been heard by Gavin,

we'll take care of you today. It is like literally people are like, yes, it is we had that fight. I knew you would have messaged me. Ha-ha-ha-ha. So I don't wanna tag him or anything when I'm doing it everybody who's in the tweet Notification, I don't give a shit because when it's your turn you need to know that I'm going to be there for you too Right and so you know, I guess I'm very about him and this group that I was hanging around

And that's kind of like my next Journalistic journey. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just an oral history of Gavin Wax being a piece of shit. Man, it has to be like a condensed version because everybody is going to get a response. Now, you can make a, I mean, the game of Thrones lasted for a lot of seasons. You can keep on rolling it.

It doesn't have to be good all the time, just enough. Just enough, just enough to strengthen people along. So I mean, I feel like the place that I want to kind of close things up with is for most of us, we've never been inside of those, like, it's just us conversations. And so our perception of this, this faction of the far right will always be tempered by what it is that we can see and who shows us what, from what points of view, right? And so it's very hard to just kind of like, oh, here's what they're going to do,

because I don't really know. I don't really know. Yeah. From talking to them, do you kind of have an idea of, are we, are we descending further into, uh, I mean, fascism? Like, are we going to try and overthrow the country again? Or is there another trick?

Should I be wearing different clothes? What are they doing next? That's what I need to know. Well, they're still really afraid of gathering. They are really afraid of federal informants. Everything glows, and that is beautiful. I love that. Patriot front is a real organization.

Patriot front is not a group of federal informants. And yet, people cannot stop saying Patriot front is just federal informants. And it's like crazy, because actually when you're inside the organization, they're worried about federal informants all of the time because they are not federal. Right. And so you got these like internal struggles where they're so afraid. They're so afraid to have a rally.

They're, you know, and that's great because as long as they're physically distanced from each other, I, you know, after the election, I don't know what'll happen. I think nobody knows what'll happen. I think they don't know. I assume Trump will be the nominee. And I assume that he will lose. And I did not think he could lose the 2016. I knew he would win. I knew he would win from the minute he came out of the escalator. That's our next president. Yeah, it's fun. My, uh, so I was a Chicago comedian at the time. Yeah. And I want to say it was Fritz.

I want to say it was Jim's Fritz, but he tweeted something out like, um, any comic who's worked the road in the Midwest new Trump was going to be our president. And that like touched a, but yeah, of course we all did. We all saw it coming, you know. Yeah, I did. I from 2013 to 2015, I did the launch of the redesign of Chevy Silverado. So it works mostly farm shows across the country for years.

And it was also my family. Like, you know, I've met my family before, you know, but I'm rising very, very familiar with know, but I'm always very familiar with me. Now we're talking some interesting stuff. Okay. You're talking farm shows for two years. Tell me more about this.

I think I'm just, what I remember being in Brazil in 2013 during a furlough, and I remember some guy getting in my car, my truck, we were talking. I was talking about whatever with you. And he was like, the time the farm bill, the corn bill was up, like the farm, whatever it like to, so they could just get their free corn money. And he's like, you know, this furlough, I really got to happenings, blacks, who's welfare queens, you know, it's time that we like really restructure this. But I really missed that corn check.

And I'm like my brother. Guess who the welfare queen is. That's you. That's you. Yeah. Well, like, you don't come down that escalator. It's not like my grandparents, so my mom saw it. It's not like, I mean, it's like so many people

that I met when I was talking about these trucks. I'm like, you know, yeah, so I know. But I think I think now Malta, Blue and nominee, I think there's a good chance to lose. I think his health is degrading, and I think more people are disgusted with him that voted for him in 2016. And even 2020, that might not vote for him now. January 6th did have an impact on some people. But you know, I think they're gonna have a struggle. The publicans in general have a struggle because you, how long can you entertain somebody like Carrie Lake who, you know, is living on Mars?

You know? That's a really good question that we haven't found the answer to yet. And I feel like we should have a long time. Yeah. I feel the same way. But I do think there's a difference in a campaign, like, 2016, where you didn't have a carry lake, you didn't have QAn. And in 2020, you know, you've got QAn on. But even then, oh, Trump's a time traveler is like a real obscure

sect of QAn on. And I think now at this point, many people who are, I mean, many people recognize my photo with Vincent Fusco, who is famously actually JFK Jr. People who I would not have expected to recognize a fake JFK Jr. recognize it. So I think like just the...

What a weird celebrity. What a weird celebrity. What a weird celebrity. What a weird celebrity. The craziest parts of mega is have become more known. And I think it makes it more embarrassing for people to be involved with it. And so I don't know. I think they're having a hard time. Poor guys. Poor, poor mega people. Yeah. Well, I mean, that mean, that's a good question.

Because we don't really know, and it's really only happening to a few thousand people, right? So you don't have a personal connection to it. But I know that people who were at January 6th are getting sentences. I know people are getting jail time. I know, you know, Stuart Rose is in jail, right? I don't know exactly what that means for the people who are in the larger movement, you know? Is it really that, is it a huge dent that a thousand people are, do you know what I mean? So if you're telling me that, yes, that makes everybody

afraid. That's very good news. Yeah, I mean, they really are afraid to gather. I went to a rally in September 2021 here in DC and it was very, I mean, it was people were saying don't go, it glows, it was much smaller than they intended for it to be. There was a heavy, heavy, heavy police presence. You know, I, I don't know, they're not, they're not getting together like they used to. It's been a great, but then also like, it's back open again. You can like, do you wanna come here? Like do you wanna come to DC and like march around?

Or do you wanna like maybe go to, I don't know, Disney World with your kids? Like you wanna go to Disney, you know, you don't wanna stand in front of Biden's white house or cry. I think it's like lost its left star. When the night change, when Trump loses the presidency, it might become more exciting to think.

Well, I think you're in bitch. I think it is one of the most reinforcing like results for my belief that if politics is boring, everybody's better off. Yeah, yeah. You know, the more you're like, okay, here's our big argument. I believe in a 4.125% progressive tax on imports

above this certain that, you know, like, yeah, cool. Your government. Like, sure, what a fun. Yeah. I don't want anybody like this person should live or die. No, no. Yeah.

Stay on the line. I don't see anybody having a coup for putting fingers wrong. Like, I just don't think he has the risk to make people want to do that. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it is the question of like, how much of January 6th is just a really good story

took people by storm? Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think a lot of people, a lot of people were not necessarily prepared to run the capital. I mean, when Trump told us to go to the capital, I was standing by the, that's a client, that's the big pencil, the monument, the question of monument. And you can look to your right, and there's the capital. It's mild down the road, we can see it. People around me are like, where is the capital? Oh my God.

It's right there. Yeah, see it with your eyes. Like those people, I mean, there were maps on my hands. Some of those people like either, you know, they had not printed out the map. They were not like familiar with the coordinates of the city. Like, tactically, this is where, you know, they mean a lot of the people were just there. Yeah, I never got to be neat. Take a field trip to DC. So I wouldn't know where the fucking capital was. I don't judge them for that. You should have been engineering sick. Yeah, like without those people,

without that kind of person. You're right. You could have also met Alex Jones. Without those people who are just like, whoa, whatever you have that's due, you know, like you didn't need that because without them, there's not enough bodies to have a cool. And those people are afraid now.

Those people are largely afraid of gathering. Thank you so much. If you could please tell everybody where to find you, where to follow your work, where to, you know, just support you. Yeah, so I'm on all the platforms as no turtle soup 17. Um, Twitter mostly, but I've got Instagram and blue sky and mastodon and Facebook and I don't know, Tumblr, I think, TikTok.

Uh, then I have a sub stack, which is also a no turtle soup 17. That's a sec. Um, that's, that's where I. Well, thank you so much. And I hope everything for the future goes just swimmingly. Thank you. Thank you so much. Oh, and then I guess.

Oh, no, there's one. There's one. It's coming out. What's the 20th? So I guess next week I'll have a follow up to my article in the nation that will be out because of Gavin Lacks screaming at me in person. Yeah, and the article drops.

I'm going a little right up about that, so I'll be in the nation too. Nice, well that's awesome. Everybody will be looking forward to that. Not Gavin. Probably not. But I still don't think he's real, so we'll see how that goes. Alrighty, thank you so much. Take care. There you go. Andy and Kansas, you're on the air. All righty. Thank you so much. Take care. Thank you.

Andy and Kansas, you're on the earth. Thanks for holding. So Alex, I'm a first time caller. I'm a huge fan. I love your work. I love you.